All of those worms that carry payload that makes zombies? Do you consider an open entry to your network "nothing really bad"? Dont forget all the work associated with removing the viruses either cause you dont leave them there do you?
Just because noone has done anything malignant yet is no assurance that it wont happen. Imagine an Al Queda hacker releasing a worm? Do you think that worm wont do anything bad?
I have found that distros do difference themselves pretty much. Especially those who have a different inheritance like slackware/gentoo/redhat etc. What i find most different between them is how easy it is to install applications, stability and how easy it is to setup things. A good review should look into theese things and the one diong the review must use the dist for atleast longer than it takes to install it.
I work as an admin for about 400 users in a mixed enviroment dispersed over several locations. The biggest reason i use linux is because i know i can install a linux box and just forget about it except for routine checkups and patches. The darn boxes just work. I have even enabled updates to be installed automatically every day since i have yet to encounter a patch that break an application in linux. In windows thats common and i have to test each patch before rollout and even then i cant be sure that it wont break something.
Since i manage both windows, linux and Novell boxes i dare to say i have good experience of managing servers. Linux is no doubt the easiest to manage once you have learnt it. Windows quirks and twists still confuses me after over 10 years experience. It just isnt any logic involved that lets you draw conclusions and get experienced.
I dont think that is to blame the gui for but more of the fact that Windows is an ugly hack based on a pretty unstable ground. Granted it gets better but thats mostly because it was utter crap to begin with.
As a school admin i can get Windows almost free but the man our i would have to add would cost more than any possible benefits compared to linux.
I think MS makes a big mistake when they just add fetures to the OS instead of perfecting the ones already there. Samba has made smb quite useful and i personally find it easier to use in many occasions, especially since i can reuse my configs.
I think they are beginning to think with their brains for once. A robot doesnt need the same amount of life support system that humans do. you could send the robot up with the russian rockets instead of with the Shuttle/firecracker. Maybe even pick up the US rocket program wich was also better than the shuttle. The cost of the launch itself will then be reduced significantly. Then again maybe its a goal in itself to have humans up there. Much better PR but damn what an expensive PR campaign.
And RAD development is good how? All i have seen is buggy untested applications that break on a touch of a button. Rad tools is like giving a hyena an UZI. The hyenas isnt supposed to mate with the Lions but with an UZI they can compete. They still are hyenas ofcourse.
Same thing with RAD tools, sure development should be easier but RAD cant replace careful planning, implementation and testing wich some poeple tend to think.
Why the need to counter what Microsoft do? Why not just drive in an own direction? Looking at MS at all times is just going to make Open Source spending time following MS instead of going our own way. Now that MS is starting to focus on getting patents and such on everything they do its a disaster waiting to happen if we do like them in everything. We dont need to follow MS every move any longer as long as we stick to open standards. If we follow MS in implementing closed or patented standards on the net we are doing MS nothig but favours and helping the acceptance of closed systems.
I dont get it, MS has failed numerous times before with "exciting" new technologies and i dont really understand why they are bound to success now. XAML might as well just be a failiure. Is it really a threat to linux? Not today and not tomomorrow since its just wapourware on paper as of today. Net was supposed to be the answer to everything but hasnt really gotten much of a foothold yet.
Sometimes i wonder if Miquel is just a pawn in a game and doesnt understand it. There are more than one way to skin a cat and i find it appaling that we should mimic Microsoft at all times and play catch-up instead of setting the pace and standards ourselves.
Maybe thats what Microsoft is most afraid of, to loose control over the heading of the software industry. Open source have control over web servers and can take control over the protocols on the web if we just do our own thing. If we only follow what Microsoft do we will always be number two and thats no where to be.
Kazaa should have made their network password protected and the servers members only. That way bypassing the membership would be illegal. Reverse engineering is something vital to competition and should not be hindered.
The same kind of people who goes millions in debt when trying to make any software. 20,000$ is small change considering what he has accomplished. Look at the dotcom burst and think again will you?
Dont blaim a failed business on free software. There are plenty of failed propriarity software to go. Drobbins could just as well have been in millions of debt from a failed propriarity software company (dont forget what all the free labour would have cost him if he had forked the dough himself to the developers).
I would just like to send a big thank you to drobbins. He has laid out the foundation to one of the best distributions out there for us tinkers. There is no doubt that portage has taken computing a step further. To always be able to have the latest without reinstallation is something ive always dreamt of and is now a reality.
Just because he doesnt do everything everyone wants just because they say so isnt any reason to bash the man. Someone have to take decisions and if people doesnt like them they are free to fork. If they are right about their complaints people will follow the fork, else its just going to be a stub fork without users.
Forks is for incompabilitys amongst developers and i think forks is whats best about Open Source.
Whiners on the other hand is something i cant stand!
Someone has to take a stand even if they have to sacrifice some users. Remember that Debian isnt driven to provide whatever users want for the moment. It makes sense to keep the non free stuff out of the dist since that makes debian less vulnerable to attacks from vendors wanting to cash in on their patents or "IP" by litigating SCO style. That wifi cards require windows dll isnt something you can blame Debian for, vote with your money and refuse to buy cards that doesnt have linux drivers even if you buy the card for a Windows machine. If there is a market it will be fulfilled cause money is everything to these people.
Stop for a moment and ask yourself why almost every scsi card out there has support for linux? Can it be because linux is common in servers where scsi is common?
If Debian gains some momentum on the desktop there will be more support for drivers included in the kernel without wrappers because people doesnt want the hassle if they can get stuff that works out of the box.
Well its more ideological ofcourse. I donw like *BSD beacause of its license that allows big comercial entitys to benefit from my work without giving enything back. The license also lends itself to curruption of my work if i should release it under a BSD style license.
Picture this:
I make some wonderful killer aplication, lets say an IM system that can do everything imaginable. Some big company swoops up my work, makes it inkompatible with my version but doesnt reveal what they have done. There i stand with my application useless because that big vendor has succeded in saturated the market with his version, making mine pretty much worthless. Maybe i coded it to be platform independent and the vendor made it platform bonded?
I dont understand the benefit of following someone with as bad track record as MS in security? I seriously doubt that mono is going to bring us nothing but troubles if its a success. Part of me feals like Miquel is walking us into a trap because i for sure wouldnt put past MS to enforce any patent in mono if its a vital part of the linux desktop.
Why not do something new alltogheter thats better than mono? Surely MS isnt the amarter boys in town.
I will stay away from anything with a hint of mono in it of principle no matter what, just like i stay away from BSD of political reasons.
I assume many will do like me and that must be a bummer to the mono project, no matter how good it is noone will use it.
Isnt it a bit strange to have a company litigating for a business (Laywers included)? What overall value does a litigation bring to society? I would much prefer fines and other punishments because todays system encurage people to sue not for justice but for money alone. There is something fundamentally wrong if you can make more money by litigating than by producing goods and services.
It can only hurt the overall economy so i dont understand how it has survived as a system.
Take your avarage Windows owner and calculate how much the software on their computer is worth in the shop. I think many people would hit five digit numbers. The ones hurting the most from piracing is low cost alternatives and "one time applications". Like Partition Magic or when you d/l and app to rescue an important document instead of buying it, youre only using it once right? Open Source also has a disadvantage at home since most people hasnt got a clue what the apps they use would cost them. Would they be forced to pay up many wouldnt think twice about using O/S alternatives.
All in all fighting piracy is good if its done the right way, Bustin small groups of warez d00ds wont make a difference. Piracy must be made shameful or else all the polices in the world wont help. All it will do is create a fascist society.
I think many of those who complain about backporting doesnt have to manage many servers as i have to. When i have installed and made the things sparkle i dont want to be forced to upgrade. I want my servers to last some time to keep my work load down. Constant upgrading and installation takes valuable time that i doesnt have away. I suspect RedHat backports for preciely those reasons, too keep the upgrade threadmill at bay. Look at how many poeple still uses NT, last i saw some statistics it was something like 60% still on NT. I presume upgrading those servers would demand much work and labour from the admins.
We dont want a similar situation for linux users, that they dont upgrade because of possible hassle. Backporting ease upgrading while you still get access to new features.
At home its a whole different matter for us who love to tinker at our free time. I use gentoo of that very reason. I want the latest and gratest at home but damnit not at work.
That is my question and one have to answer that before one start bashing clueless users. In my opinion every OS out there should be as secure as possible out of the box. I dont like how windows has every feature known to man on by default as little as i like how linux dists keep having deamons started by default. The OS should be locked down and demand user intervention to be opened up. Not that it should be difficult to start things, thats not the goal. The goal should be that the user is not supposed to secure the machine they use, it should be secure by default and then opened up by the user if that is demanded.
As linux becomes more used by newbs who hasnd any interest in locking it down it should be as secure as possible by default. That way if the box get hacked because of bad settings you can atleast put the blame on the one unsecuring it. Blaming a user who just installed it and never secured it is impossible and doesnt fly, thats why i dont listen to the people who say "they should have installed whatnot". Thats what the OS should do, provide basic services like security etc. If an OS demand an antivirus addon and adaware and things, maybe something is wrong in the OS?
I hope linux gets proactive and riddens itself of the same bad decisions as MS have done. Dont trust the user to secure things bacause we have seen in the case of MS Windows that thats not going to happen.
Well care to explain whats so special about XML? What benefits do it bring to a GUI that tcltk, QT or GTK doesnt have? XML seems to be a goal in itself to some people jsut because it is supported by MS. Take a look around, XML isnt something special or new.
True transparency you can get today with X.orgs X windows. Dont know whats so special about it, does it make you work faster? Isnt blurring the GUI and making it harder to read a bad thing?
Well i see your point. Still i dont see why its bad to write infamous since frankly WMP is just that, It is also known that it is supposed to be a big part of the whole DRM shebang, I cant recall a single friend who want DRM showed down their throat and they know perfectly well what WMP is all about. The word amongst most tech oriented people is that WMP is the next browser, an attempt to get a hold of the media industry or atleast be a gatekeeper.
Its crappy functionaly is also something of much debate since it craves 3rd party addons to play for eg. divx, and enormously popular format for video.
There is a distinct difference between UI elements and eyecandy. You can do an excellent UI without any eyecandy and just focus on getting it easy to use, Its easier to just put in some eyecandy as in XP but the result is horrible. If it looks good thats ok but looks should be secondary to ease of use,
Eyecandy and UI design is two totally different things.
A consistant UI that does things one way and has intuitive ways and places to find things make your day more pleasurable. A flashy interface doesnt help you find that setting buried twelve steps down into the system. Newbs often like the bells and whistles but once you start do real work all you want is a clean interface. Fancy UIs are fun for tinkers but i use my computer as a tool and not a toy.
Have you ever seen a workshop with pink tools and fancy music playing every time you start the welder?
He asked for usable fetures, not some eycandy that any old linux DE is capable of today. Numerous things like that exists already but noone have found them usable. 3d pagers is years old as is a 3d desktop on linux, they just dont add anything useful. What this is is eycandy.
Its a common way of deterring people from doing the next cool thing until you have the time to do it. Its commonly called vapourvare and is something MS is known for. If im not mistaken i think some of the features delayed was supposed to be in XP even.
Slashdot Mirror
All of those worms that carry payload that makes zombies? Do you consider an open entry to your network "nothing really bad"? Dont forget all the work associated with removing the viruses either cause you dont leave them there do you?
Just because noone has done anything malignant yet is no assurance that it wont happen. Imagine an Al Queda hacker releasing a worm? Do you think that worm wont do anything bad?
Think before you speak.
I have found that distros do difference themselves pretty much. Especially those who have a different inheritance like slackware/gentoo/redhat etc. What i find most different between them is how easy it is to install applications, stability and how easy it is to setup things. A good review should look into theese things and the one diong the review must use the dist for atleast longer than it takes to install it.
I work as an admin for about 400 users in a mixed enviroment dispersed over several locations. The biggest reason i use linux is because i know i can install a linux box and just forget about it except for routine checkups and patches. The darn boxes just work. I have even enabled updates to be installed automatically every day since i have yet to encounter a patch that break an application in linux. In windows thats common and i have to test each patch before rollout and even then i cant be sure that it wont break something.
Since i manage both windows, linux and Novell boxes i dare to say i have good experience of managing servers. Linux is no doubt the easiest to manage once you have learnt it. Windows quirks and twists still confuses me after over 10 years experience. It just isnt any logic involved that lets you draw conclusions and get experienced.
I dont think that is to blame the gui for but more of the fact that Windows is an ugly hack based on a pretty unstable ground. Granted it gets better but thats mostly because it was utter crap to begin with.
As a school admin i can get Windows almost free but the man our i would have to add would cost more than any possible benefits compared to linux.
I think MS makes a big mistake when they just add fetures to the OS instead of perfecting the ones already there. Samba has made smb quite useful and i personally find it easier to use in many occasions, especially since i can reuse my configs.
I think they are beginning to think with their brains for once. A robot doesnt need the same amount of life support system that humans do. you could send the robot up with the russian rockets instead of with the Shuttle/firecracker. Maybe even pick up the US rocket program wich was also better than the shuttle. The cost of the launch itself will then be reduced significantly. Then again maybe its a goal in itself to have humans up there. Much better PR but damn what an expensive PR campaign.
And RAD development is good how? All i have seen is buggy untested applications that break on a touch of a button. Rad tools is like giving a hyena an UZI. The hyenas isnt supposed to mate with the Lions but with an UZI they can compete. They still are hyenas ofcourse.
Same thing with RAD tools, sure development should be easier but RAD cant replace careful planning, implementation and testing wich some poeple tend to think.
Why the need to counter what Microsoft do? Why not just drive in an own direction? Looking at MS at all times is just going to make Open Source spending time following MS instead of going our own way. Now that MS is starting to focus on getting patents and such on everything they do its a disaster waiting to happen if we do like them in everything. We dont need to follow MS every move any longer as long as we stick to open standards. If we follow MS in implementing closed or patented standards on the net we are doing MS nothig but favours and helping the acceptance of closed systems.
I dont get it, MS has failed numerous times before with "exciting" new technologies and i dont really understand why they are bound to success now. XAML might as well just be a failiure. Is it really a threat to linux? Not today and not tomomorrow since its just wapourware on paper as of today. Net was supposed to be the answer to everything but hasnt really gotten much of a foothold yet.
Sometimes i wonder if Miquel is just a pawn in a game and doesnt understand it. There are more than one way to skin a cat and i find it appaling that we should mimic Microsoft at all times and play catch-up instead of setting the pace and standards ourselves.
Maybe thats what Microsoft is most afraid of, to loose control over the heading of the software industry. Open source have control over web servers and can take control over the protocols on the web if we just do our own thing. If we only follow what Microsoft do we will always be number two and thats no where to be.
Kazaa should have made their network password protected and the servers members only. That way bypassing the membership would be illegal. Reverse engineering is something vital to competition and should not be hindered.
The same kind of people who goes millions in debt when trying to make any software. 20,000$ is small change considering what he has accomplished. Look at the dotcom burst and think again will you?
Dont blaim a failed business on free software. There are plenty of failed propriarity software to go. Drobbins could just as well have been in millions of debt from a failed propriarity software company (dont forget what all the free labour would have cost him if he had forked the dough himself to the developers).
I would just like to send a big thank you to drobbins. He has laid out the foundation to one of the best distributions out there for us tinkers. There is no doubt that portage has taken computing a step further. To always be able to have the latest without reinstallation is something ive always dreamt of and is now a reality.
Just because he doesnt do everything everyone wants just because they say so isnt any reason to bash the man. Someone have to take decisions and if people doesnt like them they are free to fork. If they are right about their complaints people will follow the fork, else its just going to be a stub fork without users.
Forks is for incompabilitys amongst developers and i think forks is whats best about Open Source.
Whiners on the other hand is something i cant stand!
Someone has to take a stand even if they have to sacrifice some users. Remember that Debian isnt driven to provide whatever users want for the moment. It makes sense to keep the non free stuff out of the dist since that makes debian less vulnerable to attacks from vendors wanting to cash in on their patents or "IP" by litigating SCO style. That wifi cards require windows dll isnt something you can blame Debian for, vote with your money and refuse to buy cards that doesnt have linux drivers even if you buy the card for a Windows machine. If there is a market it will be fulfilled cause money is everything to these people.
Stop for a moment and ask yourself why almost every scsi card out there has support for linux? Can it be because linux is common in servers where scsi is common?
If Debian gains some momentum on the desktop there will be more support for drivers included in the kernel without wrappers because people doesnt want the hassle if they can get stuff that works out of the box.
Well its more ideological ofcourse. I donw like *BSD beacause of its license that allows big comercial entitys to benefit from my work without giving enything back. The license also lends itself to curruption of my work if i should release it under a BSD style license.
Picture this:
I make some wonderful killer aplication, lets say an IM system that can do everything imaginable. Some big company swoops up my work, makes it inkompatible with my version but doesnt reveal what they have done. There i stand with my application useless because that big vendor has succeded in saturated the market with his version, making mine pretty much worthless. Maybe i coded it to be platform independent and the vendor made it platform bonded?
Thats just one example, i have more.
I dont understand the benefit of following someone with as bad track record as MS in security? I seriously doubt that mono is going to bring us nothing but troubles if its a success. Part of me feals like Miquel is walking us into a trap because i for sure wouldnt put past MS to enforce any patent in mono if its a vital part of the linux desktop.
Why not do something new alltogheter thats better than mono? Surely MS isnt the amarter boys in town.
I will stay away from anything with a hint of mono in it of principle no matter what, just like i stay away from BSD of political reasons.
I assume many will do like me and that must be a bummer to the mono project, no matter how good it is noone will use it.
Isnt it a bit strange to have a company litigating for a business (Laywers included)? What overall value does a litigation bring to society? I would much prefer fines and other punishments because todays system encurage people to sue not for justice but for money alone. There is something fundamentally wrong if you can make more money by litigating than by producing goods and services.
It can only hurt the overall economy so i dont understand how it has survived as a system.
Take your avarage Windows owner and calculate how much the software on their computer is worth in the shop. I think many people would hit five digit numbers. The ones hurting the most from piracing is low cost alternatives and "one time applications". Like Partition Magic or when you d/l and app to rescue an important document instead of buying it, youre only using it once right? Open Source also has a disadvantage at home since most people hasnt got a clue what the apps they use would cost them. Would they be forced to pay up many wouldnt think twice about using O/S alternatives.
All in all fighting piracy is good if its done the right way, Bustin small groups of warez d00ds wont make a difference. Piracy must be made shameful or else all the polices in the world wont help. All it will do is create a fascist society.
I think many of those who complain about backporting doesnt have to manage many servers as i have to. When i have installed and made the things sparkle i dont want to be forced to upgrade. I want my servers to last some time to keep my work load down. Constant upgrading and installation takes valuable time that i doesnt have away. I suspect RedHat backports for preciely those reasons, too keep the upgrade threadmill at bay. Look at how many poeple still uses NT, last i saw some statistics it was something like 60% still on NT. I presume upgrading those servers would demand much work and labour from the admins.
We dont want a similar situation for linux users, that they dont upgrade because of possible hassle. Backporting ease upgrading while you still get access to new features.
At home its a whole different matter for us who love to tinker at our free time. I use gentoo of that very reason. I want the latest and gratest at home but damnit not at work.
That is my question and one have to answer that before one start bashing clueless users. In my opinion every OS out there should be as secure as possible out of the box. I dont like how windows has every feature known to man on by default as little as i like how linux dists keep having deamons started by default. The OS should be locked down and demand user intervention to be opened up. Not that it should be difficult to start things, thats not the goal. The goal should be that the user is not supposed to secure the machine they use, it should be secure by default and then opened up by the user if that is demanded.
As linux becomes more used by newbs who hasnd any interest in locking it down it should be as secure as possible by default. That way if the box get hacked because of bad settings you can atleast put the blame on the one unsecuring it. Blaming a user who just installed it and never secured it is impossible and doesnt fly, thats why i dont listen to the people who say "they should have installed whatnot". Thats what the OS should do, provide basic services like security etc. If an OS demand an antivirus addon and adaware and things, maybe something is wrong in the OS?
I hope linux gets proactive and riddens itself of the same bad decisions as MS have done. Dont trust the user to secure things bacause we have seen in the case of MS Windows that thats not going to happen.
Well care to explain whats so special about XML? What benefits do it bring to a GUI that tcltk, QT or GTK doesnt have? XML seems to be a goal in itself to some people jsut because it is supported by MS. Take a look around, XML isnt something special or new.
True transparency you can get today with X.orgs X windows. Dont know whats so special about it, does it make you work faster? Isnt blurring the GUI and making it harder to read a bad thing?
Well i see your point. Still i dont see why its bad to write infamous since frankly WMP is just that, It is also known that it is supposed to be a big part of the whole DRM shebang, I cant recall a single friend who want DRM showed down their throat and they know perfectly well what WMP is all about. The word amongst most tech oriented people is that WMP is the next browser, an attempt to get a hold of the media industry or atleast be a gatekeeper.
Its crappy functionaly is also something of much debate since it craves 3rd party addons to play for eg. divx, and enormously popular format for video.
There is a distinct difference between UI elements and eyecandy. You can do an excellent UI without any eyecandy and just focus on getting it easy to use, Its easier to just put in some eyecandy as in XP but the result is horrible. If it looks good thats ok but looks should be secondary to ease of use,
Eyecandy and UI design is two totally different things.
A consistant UI that does things one way and has intuitive ways and places to find things make your day more pleasurable. A flashy interface doesnt help you find that setting buried twelve steps down into the system. Newbs often like the bells and whistles but once you start do real work all you want is a clean interface. Fancy UIs are fun for tinkers but i use my computer as a tool and not a toy.
Have you ever seen a workshop with pink tools and fancy music playing every time you start the welder?
He asked for usable fetures, not some eycandy that any old linux DE is capable of today. Numerous things like that exists already but noone have found them usable. 3d pagers is years old as is a 3d desktop on linux, they just dont add anything useful. What this is is eycandy.
Where are the usable features?
Word!
Its a common way of deterring people from doing the next cool thing until you have the time to do it. Its commonly called vapourvare and is something MS is known for. If im not mistaken i think some of the features delayed was supposed to be in XP even.