Slashdot Mirror


FOSS Application Under Attack by Makers of KaZaa

Famatra writes "A story from Zeropaid indicates that maker of KaZaA, Sharman Networks, has sent a Cease and Desist Letter to the maker of KCEasy because it interoperates with their FastTrack network. The creator of KCeasy says on the KCEasy website "I feel that inclusion of FastTrack access with KCeasy is not worth a legal battle between Sharman and myself". A similar issue was covered by the Slashdot story Fight On Blizzard Vs. Bnetd Case on the right to reverse engineer to create an interoperable network. Reverse engineering to be another on the list of rights that have fallen by the wayside?"

300 comments

  1. Someone failed Sesame Street by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The issue with bnetd is not "similar", except in extremely broad terms. The issue at hand wasn't hopping onto the Battle.net network, it was making their OWN network that used a reverse-engineered Battle.net engine.

    Not only that, bnetd allowed people to bypass blizzard's CD-key check, which was bad sauce. So this guy's inclusion of FastTrack operability is allowing people to steal the chance to steal software/music? And what about KaZaA-lite? This makes my brain hurt.

    Reverse-engineering may have fallen by the wayside, but it has next to nothing to do with f'n bnetd. Submitter must be applying to be a /. editor.

    1. Re:Someone failed Sesame Street by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The bnetd decision should never have been made.

      Skipping CD-key checks: Already possible with TCP/IP games, you just can't get onto Battle.net itself. With bnetd, you still can't get onto Battle.net itself. Ergo, you aren't 'beating' the copy protection at all.

      Tell me what's SO BAD about emulating the Battle.net service? Game pirates were already playing TCP/IP games and still are.

      This is reverse engineering for interoperability. Easy as that. Tell me what about it isn't. Really.

    2. Re:Someone failed Sesame Street by DA-MAN · · Score: 1

      IIRC the bnetd group had contacted blizzard for inclusion of their cd checking scheme into the software. When they did not get a reply, they released without this feature.

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    3. Re:Someone failed Sesame Street by runderwo · · Score: 1
      You couldn't play Starcraft over TCP/IP without going through Battle.net. That is why Vivendi made such a big stink about it. They had a great plan to tie Internet multiplayer in with the copy protection, so that people who played unlicensed copies of Blizzard games would not be able to play them over the Internet. Thus, unlicensed copies would have much less value than a licensed copy.

      Unfortunately, bnetd showed up and unwittingly threw a wrench in that scheme by providing a method for people who made illegal copies of Blizzard games to play over the Internet. Never mind that there were other good reasons for using a third-party Battle.net-compatible server to play games on; the perceived loss of leverage to get people to buy legal copies of Blizzard games is what drew the lawsuits from Vivendi. The DMCA just happened to be the only law broad enough for them to have had any ground to stand on.

    4. Re:Someone failed Sesame Street by Ark42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can play any game you want over the internet if it supports a LAN mode: http://www.morpheussoftware.net/git/

  2. Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by jrj102 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    QUOTE: "A similar issue was covered by the Slashdot story Fight On Blizzard Vs. Bnetd Case on the right to reverse engineer to create an interoperable network. Reverse engineering to be another on the list of rights that have fallen by the wayside?"

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the issue at question here is not whether or not it is legal to reverse engineer the KaZaA network and create an interoperable network, but rather the right to reverse engineer the KaZaA network and provide unlicensed access to the existing network. A subtle, but important distinction.

    To draw an analogy, if I create a network of systems that does something, then (as I understand it) it is perfectly legal for you to reverse engineer my methodology and create a competing network that works in a similar way (within the constraints of patents, of course... and the act of reverse engineering something legally is a fairly complex one.) However, it would NOT (nessesarily, depending on the access license for my network) be legal for you to reverse-engineer an unlicensed client that accesses my network. In other words, it's not the act of reverse engineering that's illegal, but rather connecting your client to MY network.

    However, in the case of a pure P2P system, I'm not sure that argument will hold up. This would have been an interesting one to watch. Too bad KCEasy backed down so easily.

    Also, to be clear, I don't consider reverse engineering to be "a right" as the poster does. Just because something is not illegal doesn't make it a right. Free speech is a right. Free press is a right. Reverse engineering (within certain constraints) is simply legal.

    --- JRJ

    1. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by NaugaHunter · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      A better analogy would be you can have the right to reverse engineering how my lock works all you want, but I can still shoot you if you come into my house uninvited.

      --
      R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
    2. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have come to the conclusion that the Slashdot community, as a whole, is terrible at making analogies.

    3. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Havokmon · · Score: 1
      In other words, it?s not the act of reverse engineering that?s illegal, but rather connecting your client to MY network.

      Or how about:
      Accessing a MS Terminal Server machine using rdesktop with the intent of not paying for the license to do so.

      --
      "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
    4. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Quinn_Inuit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, to be clear, I don't consider reverse engineering to be "a right" as the poster does. Just because something is not illegal doesn't make it a right. Free speech is a right. Free press is a right. Reverse engineering (within certain constraints) is simply legal

      I disagree, but then I take a very different view of the Constitution than most people. I believe that the "Progress of Science and the Useful Arts" clause is an express grant of authority to Congress to limit the rights of individuals to copy certain things. Note my terminology--I believe the rights pre-existed the Constitution. In other words, you have the right to reverse engineer someone's design unless the Constitution allows Congress (or the states, but this interplay is more complicated and, since we're talking about federal law here, I'm going to ignore it) to take that right away. Congress has not done so, even under the DMCA, and it might be beyond their authority (not that the current Court seems to think that authority has limits, but you never know).

      You're right, this isn't Free Speech or an explicit reserveration of power to the people. Instead, I would argue that this is one of the rights we the people have always had, did not give up at the formation of the Republic, and is perpetually preserved under the 9th Amendment.

      That said, I think you're also right about the reverse engineering not being the problem in this case, rather the unauthorized network usage.

      --

      Stop learning! Only you can prevent esoterrorism.
    5. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What about all of those alternative IM clients out there? Is this any different?

      And, since Kazaa is P2P as you said, are any Kazaa owned servers involved in this? Or are they saying "you can't access other peoples computers using our protocol"? (I have no idea since I don't use Kazaa or IM)

      Unless Kazaa owns the machines and the network, all they have is a program that lets computers talk to one another.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Kpt+Kill · · Score: 2, Funny

      correct as a flying mongoose on a summers day

    7. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I would tell her that he shouldn't be breaking into my house. That seems pretty straight forward to me.

    8. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by pete-classic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think that they do have a right to exclude unofficial clients from connecting to their server (or network).

      I don't think they have a right to prevent anyone from making or distributing a compatible client.

      Here's the kicker; I don't think they have a right to prevent people from using a compatible client to connect to instances of the client they provide.

      The question is, what is "their network?" Is it anything other than a bunch of people running their P2P software on the public Internet? If so, I think they have no rights at all.

      Please note that this is my analysis of the ethics involved, not my analysis of the laws involved.

      -Peter

    9. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by mcpkaaos · · Score: 2

      correct as a flying mongoose on a summers day

      And then you have those of us who don't even know what an analogy is... ;)

      --
      It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
    10. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by jonbryce · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sharman say it is not their network. They say that they only supply the software.

      That is why they are allowed to continue in business, and that is why they are not liable for any copyright infringement that takes place on the network.

      The only possible basis therefore for preventing other people from writing software that can connect to the same third party networks that their software connects to is patent infringement.

    11. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Fasttrack networks have central servers. It's definitely their network.

      Reverse engineering for the sake of interoperability is a (supposedly) protected activity.

      Nonetheless if they want to prevent people from connecting, they need to use some sort of authentication. Using another client might break the use agreement for the server, but if you can connect to the server without agreeing to a license (which you can, far as I can tell) then they really should not have any leg to stand on.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by kscguru · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Just because something is not illegal doesn't make it a right.

      US Constitution, Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

      (Yes, I understand if you are not in the US - but since so much of these rights issues crop up in the US, I think it applies).

      But, that's beside the point. Really, I can't see how reverse-engineering could be forbidden by copyright AT ALL. I can see patents forbidding reverse engineering (which is another issue), but copyright / DMCA doesn't even apply.

      To anyone designing networks:

      • If you want to forbid access to your network, toss some sort of copyrighted part into the protocol. Example: all packets must carry the string "Foobar network, copyright Evil Corp" in a header somewhere, any packet w/o that information must be dropped. THEN, you can restrict access to your network based on copyright (copying that string into the packet is a blindingly obvious violation of copyright!). Yes it wastes a few bytes, but you wanted an exclusive network, right? Exclusivity ain't free!
      • Or, patent the implementation of the network. But, as the parent is noting, that may or may not hold up legally - whereas a copyrighted string certainly should. (Yeah, IANAL)
      My opinion: if a company wants to retain control of their network, it needs to be through copyright. A trivial protocol change! But then the rest of us (e.g. slashdot crowd) can reverse-engineer the protocol, CHANGE THAT STRING, and have an entirely separate network! Then, reverse-engineering = legal, sharing that network = illegal. It's not that difficult! And it's one hell of a lot cheaper than lawsuits...
      --

      A witty [sig] proves nothing. --Voltaire

    13. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Zordak · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Also, to be clear, I don't consider reverse engineering to be "a right" as the poster does.
      You're obviously not an engineer. The right to reverse enngineer is the right to figure out how something works, and to an engineer, that's about on the same level as the right to breathe. Unfortunately, the DMCA is already pretty much suffocating us.
      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    14. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The question is, what is "their network?""

      That is the core of the problem and here is another issue to muddy the water a little: If they 'own' the network (i.e. not letting legit reverse engineered clients operate on it) then they truely do own the network and thus Sharman should be responsible for:

      All the child porno, viruses, pirated music and games on it.

      If Sharman wants to take their marbles and go home, then they should take responsibility for the entire network and all the inherent legal liabilities along with it!

    15. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC, Kazaa is centralized, so it would have to use Kazaa's servers to be functional I think.

    16. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by mhesseltine · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Nonetheless if they want to prevent people from connecting, they need to use some sort of authentication.

      But, by centralizing authentication, then they lose the defense of "We just make the software. We can't police how it's used." They fall into the same hole Napster did. Since the authorities would know who was running the software, they could subpoena records from the Kazaa makers to prosecute file traders.

      --
      Overrated / Underrated : Moderation :: Anonymous Coward : Posting
    17. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe in this case FOSS apps are right, but in many number of cases FOSS apps simply copy others' work and try to take advantage of the hard work of others. In that respect FOSS apps are wrong here, since they didn't build this network, they are simply trying to capitilaze on someonelse's work, like unix, windows, word, etc...

    18. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by codemachine · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nope, Kazaa is fully decentralized. They wouldn't want to run any services themselves, since that would line them up for a quick legal defeat, much like Napster. If they are running any services on their own machines, they certainly wouldn't admit it.

      It is just finding a node to connect to that is hard to do without centralization, and as I recall, the client comes with a list of IPs to try first. If for some reason none of those IPs are running Kazaa, it starts scanning the 24.* domain (the cable internet providers) until it finds someone. There is no central server telling you where to find peers or super-nodes, and all routing of searches is done through super-nodes.

    19. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      The whole idea of a patent is that the inventor publishes the invention. There's no reverse engineering of the patented portion of a system necessary.

      That's the exchange made in the patent system --in trade for letting others know how you do something neat, you get to be the only one (or charge them to join you) using the neat trick for a certain number of years. Patented items are specifically not trade secrets. It's the law that protects them.

      Granted, some people make their patent applications as vague as possible and try every way possible to get them extended. That's not the way the system was intended to work, though.

    20. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by codemachine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, most IM networks use a central server (run by AOL, MS, or Yahoo), yet gaim, Trillian, and Kopete have not been sued. These clients have managed to reverse engineer the protocol and connect to these servers, and for the most part, the IM companies have given up on stopping them from doing it.

      In the case of Kazaa, there isn't even a central server there. The protocol was reversed engineered, and used to connect to other client machines. I'm not sure if Sharman Networks really has a say in who can connect to other user's machines. I doubt KCEasy really has anything to worry about technology-wise. They do have to worry that Sharman probably has a whole lot more money to throw at lawyers though. I imagine this has more to do with why KCEasy backed down than the actual merits of any lawsuit.

    21. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by veg_all · · Score: 1

      flying mongoose

      What is that, some kind of web browser?

      --
      grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
    22. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by sir_cello · · Score: 1

      "Also, to be clear, I don't consider reverse engineering to be "a right" as the poster does."

      If you look at statutory copyright law, e.g. the UK CDPA 1988, you will see that it is "a right". So if you believe something that's different to the reality of the law (and the cases that have been decided upon it), then good luck to you, and say hello to the fairies for me.

    23. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Everything is a "right" under natural law unless it infringes on a legitimate right of another. My right to swing my fist does not extend to your nose, for example. My right to write software does not take away any of your rights.

      There is no right to make a profit, even in a capitalist economy. The recognition of a "right" to profit equals merchantilism.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    24. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by billcopc · · Score: 1

      They already do know who's running the software: your IP traffic, as sheepishly turned over by the ISP as soon as a legal threat walks thru the door.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    25. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Orgazmus · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's like a story about asses I think ?

      --
      The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
    26. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Doug+Neal · · Score: 1

      I think it's a kind of bar snack.

    27. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      but in many number of cases MS apps simply copy others' work and try to take advantage of the hard work of others. In that respect MS apps are wrong here, since they didn't build this network, they are simply trying to capitilaze on someonelse's work, like VMS, xerox, wordperfect, etc..

    28. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Also, to be clear, I don't consider reverse engineering to be "a right" as the poster does. Just because something is not illegal doesn't make it a right. Free speech is a right. Free press is a right. Reverse engineering (within certain constraints) is simply legal.


      I thought reverse engineering was made illegal via the DMCA?
    29. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by rowdent · · Score: 1

      I would really call into question whether the network belongs to Sharman at all. The software, of course, belongs to them, but their network is P2P and therefore belongs to no one.

      If Sharman lays claim to the FastTrack network, wouldn't that leave them open to prosecution? AFAIK the whole reason FastTrack still exist is *because* it doesn't belong to Sharman at all.

      --
      "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." --George Orwell
    30. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      And I contend that because I have a Terminal Server CAL on the server itself, and only one person at a time can use said CAL, that it doesn't fscking matter WHAT client I connect with.

      IMHO.

      ---
      Shades of grey...

    31. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by zurab · · Score: 1
      That said, I think you're also right about the reverse engineering not being the problem in this case, rather the unauthorized network usage.

      I don't get your logic - the Internet is a public network, and if I had a KaZaA P2P server/client installed, it would still be functioning over this public network - in peer to peer manner, not KaZaA's. They have no authority over other networks whatsoever. Just because you have their software doesn't mean they own everybody's "networks" and their dogs.
    32. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Trejkaz · · Score: 1

      Given up? Yahoo only tried to stop people using their network a few months ago. What makes you think they've given up when the last public statement was something along the lines of "we will do whatever we need to do to ensure people use our client."

      --
      Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
    33. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Ben+Hutchings · · Score: 1

      The magic copyrighted string won't hold up in (US) court - see Sega v Accolade .

    34. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by kscguru · · Score: 1
      That case has all sorts of interesting snippits... from that ruling:

      We further note that we are free to consider the public benefit resulting from a particular use ... In the case before us, Accolade's identification of the functional requirements for Genesis compatibility has led to an increase in the number of independently designed video game programs offered for use with the Genesis console. It is precisely this growth in creative expression, based on the dissemination of other creative works and the unprotected ideas contained in those works, that the Copyright Act was intended to promote.

      I've lost count of how many times I've read this exact argument here on /.!

      Accolade did not seek to avoid paying a customarily charged fee for use of those procedures, nor did it simply copy Sega's code; rather, it wrote its own procedures based on what it had learned through disassembly.

      Wow... DeCSS anyone?

      But anyway... looks like Sega v Accolade was settled out of court. The court was leaning towards an illegal use of copyright to prevent interop - I agree there - but I would quibble on "protocol-compatible" versus "network-compatible". Anyway, a less interesting discussion than reading that case!

      --

      A witty [sig] proves nothing. --Voltaire

    35. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by BillyBlaze · · Score: 1
      I can see patents forbidding reverse engineering (which is another issue)

      To call that "an issue" is a bit of an understatement. Patents, like copyrights, are supposed to further the Sciences and Useful Arts. The very basis of patents is that in exchange for the monopoly, you tell everyone how it works. Without the reward, everybody would keep it a secret. So prohibiting reverse engineering is exactly the nightmare patents are disigned to avert, and since it clearly wouldn't help science or the useful arts, it absolutely cannot be constitutionally justified by that clause.

      I assume you agree, but I just wanted to make it clear. The freedom to tinker is very, very important.

    36. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Eminor · · Score: 1

      Also, to be clear, I don't consider reverse engineering to be "a right" as the poster does. Just because something is not illegal doesn't make it a right. Free speech is a right. Free press is a right. Reverse engineering (within certain constraints) is simply legal.

      Using your brain to figure out how something works should not be subject to the penalty of law.

    37. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Not only did the alleged offense occur outside of the United States, but unless I'm mistaken, Sharman Networks is based in Australia, so US laws are completely irrelevant.

      It's simple really. The people with money hold the power. There's nothing anyone can do to change that, since money rules governments just as surely as it does everything else. The article clearly stated that the battle was not worth the time and money, despite the lack of merit on Sharman's allegations. If you want to change the situation, stop babbling about changing strings and send the poor guy some money. Or, if he doesn't want to spearhead the battle, write your own infringing protocol and wait to be served.

    38. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Ben+Hutchings · · Score: 1
      Wow... DeCSS anyone?

      DeCSS obviously does not of itself infringe copyright or other IPR. The problem there is the DMCA and similar laws elsewhere in the world.

      But anyway... looks like Sega v Accolade was settled out of court.

      Oops, I didn't notice that. That means it doesn't set a precedent.

    39. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by mpe · · Score: 1

      but in many number of cases MS apps simply copy others' work and try to take advantage of the hard work of others.

      It wouldn't suprise me if "borrowing" of code (including OSS) is quite common with proprietary software.
      Whereas if an OSS program wants to duplicate the function of a proprietary program reverse engineering is likely to be needed.

    40. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Stone+Pony · · Score: 1
      Whereabouts in the CPDA does it say that?

      I can't see it anywhere, but I've not got time to look through the whole thing just now. If you're going to use a reference to an Act dating from 1988 (that's the date from which all UK Acts are online) or later as the basis of your argument, you really ought to provide some sort of link.

    41. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by sir_cello · · Score: 1


      Try s50B.

      What I would say to you is if you are going to enter into a debate that involves law, you should understand how it works. Come back when you have legal training, otherwise most of what you say is irrelevant and useless.

    42. Re:Reverse Engineering: A right? In danger? Huh? by Stone+Pony · · Score: 1
      Err, I do know how the law works. I have - or had, I haven't really used it in the last couple of years - an excellent knowledge of one small set of Acts (HRA, RIPA, some related stuff including non-statutory codes of practice etc.). Although I'm not a lawyer and nor do I have any legal training, I do work for a law enforcement organisation (HMC&E) and I understand perfectly well the concept that existing laws can be amended, but I don't really have time to trawl through the HMSO site looking for amendments to a specific Act.

      You made a statement of fact regarding a particular piece of legislation, but didn't provide a reference to the original. I skimmed the text of the original Act to check the truth of your assertion and couldn't find it, so I asked you to substantiate it, which you've now done. I'm grateful for that. There's really no reason to get narky about it.

      The only times that I've posted to stories regarding the law have been in cases where I have actually known (as opposed to thinking that I've known) about the legal position. That means the stuff I've outlined above, such as here and some stuff about VAT on imported goods (usually in the context of e-commerce). I try and provide references when I can - usually to the actual Act, sometimes to HMC&E notices, which are an interpretation of the law rather than the law itself (as the disclaimer at the start of each one points out), but are easier for me to find links to quickly.

      If you know that you're speaking authoratatively on a subject - and it appears that in this case, you are - I don't see why you wouldn't want to back that up with a reference of some kind. As you allude to yourself, if you believed everything that gets posted on Slashdot which purports to represent the law of the land, you'd be believing some weird stuff. Knowing what you're talking about can be your USP. Just a suggestion.

      Be lucky

      Stone Pony

  3. poisoned by all+your+mwbassguy+a · · Score: 1

    what does this mean for the poisoned project?

  4. KCEasy is just a front-end by untermensch · · Score: 4, Informative

    Sharman Networks, has sent a Cease and Desist Letter to the maker of KCEasy because it interoperates with their FastTrack network.

    I'm a bit suprised that the KCEasy authors have complied with the cease-and-desist this easily, since the above statement is not really true.

    KCEasy is simply a front-end. KCEasy makes use of giFT, which is an interface program, connecting one or more front-ends to one or more protocol plug-ins. giFT then in turn makes use of the giFT-FastTrack plugin which actually communicates on the FastTrack network.

    Anway, those of you using KCEasy might want to look into some of the other giFT front-ends, I don't know of any others for windows offhand but I'm guessing they are out there.

    Googling for giFTcurs, appolon, giftui will bring up some for *NIX.

    1. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by twitchkat · · Score: 5, Informative
      KCEasy is simply a front-end. KCEasy makes use of giFT

      KCEasy may be just a front-end, but it is a front-end developed by one of the guys heavily involved in reverse-engineering the KaZaA encryption algorithms (eg, /src/crypt/enc_type_*.c) for the giFT-fasttrack plug-in: mkern.

      See:

      http://cvs.berlios.de/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gift-fas ttrack/giFT-FastTrack/src/crypt/

      Maybe the KaZaA people are miffed at his reverse-engineering ways and chose to attack here rather than at the gift-fasttrack plug-in level?

    2. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by oddfox · · Score: 2, Informative

      KCEasy bundles all of giFT and makes it much easier to get online using OpenFT, Gnutella, and up until a few days ago FastTrack. I don't know of any other Windows client that made it as easy as installing the program and everything works like a charm out of the package. It took me about 15 minutes to setup Apollon in Linux, and I never did figure out giFToxic.

      I believe KCEasy is open sourced, so it wouldn't be that hard to create a modified version that has FastTrack support and was distributed via Gnutella or maybe ed2k network. Bittorrent, even? Meh.

      --
      "We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
    3. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by ozamosi · · Score: 0

      Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they using code ripped from the original KaZaA client? Or is it just mlDonkey that uses that? Because if they do, it violates the Sharman Copying License. And if this is the case, then it's obvious that KCEasy violates the law. Right?

    4. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by Bodysurf · · Score: 1

      >"I'm a bit suprised that the KCEasy authors have complied with the cease-and-desist this easily"

      Why? Big money eats up little money all the time. Sharman Networks could file a lawsuit that would cost thousands of dollars to defend, even if the suit had no merit. It was probably far cheaper to just comply than risk legal action.

      >"since the above statement is not really true."

      It doesn't matter. If you do anything to tick off big money, they can file a civil lawsuit against you. A few thousand dollars later, you may or may not win. You gotta ask yourself: Is it worth it? This is nothing new.

    5. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by yppiz · · Score: 1
      I believe people here are missing the point. KCEasy is one of the few Windows clients that is compatible with Kazaa's Fastrack network (besides Kazaa-lite). Sharman probably doesn't care nearly as much about Linux clones.

      The KCEasy site still links to the old version, 0.11, which includes the Fastrack plugin. It runs fine on Windows XP and works with Fastrack (Kazaa), Gnutella, and OpenFT.

      KCEasy v0.11 with Fastrack Goodness

      --Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu

    6. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by codemachine · · Score: 1

      Seems to me that the easy way out for KCEasy is to ship their client without the gift-fasttrack plugin. The users can then figure out how to install the plugin themselves. This way KCEasy doesn't supply FastTrack access, but users can still add this functionality.

      I'm not sure how far they'd want to go in helping the users find documentation on gift-fasttrack though. Maybe if they had a forum on their website, they could let the users supply that information too.

    7. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by codemachine · · Score: 1

      Well, seems like they did exactly that. And that they do have a forum on their website. I wonder what their policy about posting fasttrack material to the forum will be?

    8. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how does one install FastTrack support in 0.12?

    9. Re:KCEasy is just a front-end by codemachine · · Score: 1

      You should just need to get the gift-fasttrack sources and build the plugin. Then change your gift configuration file to use the fasttrack plugin.

      You can find gift-fasttrack here: http://developer.berlios.de/projects/gift-fasttrac k/

      Of course I don't use KCEasy, so I'm not sure if their setup would make this process any different or not.

  5. Latest threat to P2P comes from within by Sanity · · Score: 5, Informative
    This is just one example of the increasing threat that Kazaa, or more precicely the companies around it, pose to innovation in the P2P space.

    Perhaps the best example is their aquisition of patent #5,978,791, filed in 1997, which claims to cover the retrieval of a file across a network using a hash of the file's contents.

    Set aside, for a moment, that this technique is completley obvious and has been around for decades (the earliest reference I can find is the Xanadu project from the early 90s - but I haven't looked very hard), and consider the fact that these guys could use this patent to effectively shut down almost anyone that comes up with a P2P app that doesn't have the funding to fight them in court (since most if not all modern P2P apps use this technique).

    The bottom line is that companies such as Brilliant Digital Entertainment (the same nice people that were behind the adware that Kazaa is now famous for) are almost as much a threat to P2P as the better known people everybody loves to hate.

    If anyone is interested, here is a more detailed article I wrote on the subject.

    1. Re:Latest threat to P2P comes from within by jea6 · · Score: 1

      Set aside, for a moment, that this technique is completley obvious and has been around for decades (the earliest reference I can find is the Xanadu project from the early 90s - but I haven't looked very hard

      If the patent was filed in '97 and you have prior art from "the early 90's", that's not decades: that's years. To qualify prior art in terms of decades, please find the uses prior to 1977.

      I know what you meant to say. Why not just say it?

      --

      sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
    2. Re:Latest threat to P2P comes from within by Sanity · · Score: 1
      If the patent was filed in '97 and you have prior art from "the early 90's", that's not decades: that's years.
      Don't be an ass, when I say that it has been around for decades, I am referring to the idea, not the earliest concrete example I can find after not looking very hard.
    3. Re:Latest threat to P2P comes from within by Crazy+Eight · · Score: 1
      I know what you meant to say. Why not just say it?

      'cause he screwed up?

  6. I think we all recognize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That the developers of Kazaa are strict believers in tough copyright law. This is simply an extension of that view.

    1. Re:I think we all recognize by tabdelgawad · · Score: 2, Informative

      This *is* funny, but true as well. Few seem to have noticed that KaZaA is countersuing the music industry for 'hacking' into their network using an 'illegal' client. See here:

      http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/09/24/kazaa .s ues.ap/

      This coincided with the time Sharman cracked down on Kazaa Lite. I think they have to continue to crack down on unauthorized clients if they want to have a leg to stand on in court.

      --
      Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
  7. reverse engineering a right? by The+Other+White+Boy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and here i was under the assumption that it was (technically) illegal. anyone care to fill in the gaps for me?

    1. Re:reverse engineering a right? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IANAL , But I believe reverse engineering is legal except if some other law i.e. patent or DCMA is violated.

      Here is a recent bit of news on the topic:

      http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/legal/0,3902065 1, 39147906,00.htm
      http://news.com.com/2100-1023-236 427.html?legacy=c net

      The most famous case of reverse engineering was Compaq developing a BIOS for it's IBM PC clone.

    2. Re:reverse engineering a right? by kfg · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't, perhaps, like myself, be running an IBM compatable Phoenix BIOS on an Intel compatable AMD chip, would you?

      You don't think IBM and Intel are entirely happy about that, do you?

      How do you suppose this came about, and why do you suppose IBM and Intel haven't put a lid on it in the courts?

      KFG

    3. Re:reverse engineering a right? by MathFox · · Score: 4, Informative
      In the Netherlands it is legal (under certain conditions) to reverse engineer a program "to create an interoperable program". I have all reasons to believe Markus Kern when he sais that his reverse engineering of the Kazaa network is legal in Germany.

      The law in the USA is quite different in this respect and it could be that you'll be fried when attempting such a thing there. (Jon Johansen was acquitted in Norway for DeCSS, while those in the US that only linked to it were convicted.)

      IANAL, if you want to try this at home see one (a lawyer) first.

      --
      extern warranty;
      main()
      {
      (void)warranty;
      }
    4. Re:reverse engineering a right? by DAldredge · · Score: 3, Offtopic

      AMD had a license. They where an official second source for 286 and 368 processors.

    5. Re:reverse engineering a right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is legal in some countries, not legal in others.

    6. Re:reverse engineering a right? by The+Other+White+Boy · · Score: 1

      much thanks to all three of the above replies to grandparent. i never knew about the compaq bios thing and find that pretty interesting..so i guess 'legal as long as the target doesn't say not to' is about as safe as it gets here.

      i'm thinking calling it a 'right' is still a bit of a stretch tho. =)

    7. Re:reverse engineering a right? by kfg · · Score: 1

      Well, of course I didn't specify, but I'm not running a 286 or 386, and I believe the operative word in your post was "had."

      We can turn it around if you wish and make it Intel's reverse engineering of the AMD64, or bring the two togther with this quote of Tom Halfhill commenting on said reverse engineering:

      "There's no shame in it. AMD has reverse-engineered everything Intel has done for years."

      KFG

    8. Re:reverse engineering a right? by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      They still have patent licenses and other liceness that make it easier on them. It isn't as clear cut a case as the Compaq/IBM BIOS job.

    9. Re:reverse engineering a right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I award you Excellent Karma for giving kfg pause.

  8. Kazaa Lite Resurrection by Johnny+Doughnuts · · Score: 3, Informative

    Kazaa Lite Resurrection. Basically a continuation of the KL project. If you MUST use Kazaa, use this.

    http://mxp2.free.fr/P2P/KLR007.exe

    1. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      I haven't actually tried it out, but it seems like this is Kazaa Lite Resurrection 0.0.7 (AKA Kazaa Lite 2.6 RC21b, it appears). Mods, download and run on your trash Windows box, and THEN mod down if it's a trojan.

    2. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Note that I said TRASH Windows box, and they could even *gasp* NOT GIVE IT A NETWORK CONNECTION! It seems legit from all the stuff Google has on it, BTW. You know what? I'm on a Windows box with Deep Freeze - one reboot, and it's all gone. I'll try it out - wait a sec, and I'll reply.

    3. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by Johnny+Doughnuts · · Score: 1

      Thanks for standing up for me. I copied that link directly from the site, and I double checked it in my firefox download manager.

    4. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by herulach · · Score: 0

      Or Go to the KCeasy sourceforge page and download 0.11 which has the fasttrack stuff still in there.

    5. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Kazaa Lite Resurrection does not run on this XP box - attempting to start it gives an error that it "encountered a problem and needs to close"... I'd try it on a VMWare-based 98 box, and see what happens.

    6. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I told you dude! You better run an antivirus and see the damage that has resulted.

    7. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by rainman_bc · · Score: 1

      Seems fine to me! Looks good!

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    8. Re:Kazaa Lite Resurrection by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      I said it runs Deep Freeze - means any changes get reversed.

  9. Re:THIS JUST IN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even worse, he also works for Microsoft as his day job.

  10. You know it's a dark day when.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Kazaa sends a cease and desist letter to YOU!

    1. Re:You know it's a dark day when.. by MikeXpop · · Score: 1, Funny

      It's not dark. You're just in soviet russia.

      --
      Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
    2. Re:You know it's a dark day when.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Welcome to the new america! All Bush's plans are going smoothly with little resistance.

    3. Re:You know it's a dark day when.. by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 1

      I thought Sharman Networks was located in Vanuatu...

      Sharman License Holdings Ltd.
      The SysAdmin
      C/- BDO House, Father W.H. Lini Highway
      Port Vila, VU 240
      VU
      Phone: +678 24038
      Fax..: +678 24213
      Email: domain@slhltd.com

  11. Uhh, how can Sharman sue you... by nweaver · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Their whole legal strategy rests on hopping shell companies. If they stood still enough to sue somebody, the RIAA and MPAA could come down on em like a ton o bricks.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
  12. Reverse engineering and open source by PurifyTheMind · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It might make sense (for patent holders) to make reverse engineering illegal. But open source seems to nullify this tactic. After all, once the trick behind the invention is discovered, and published, one cannot really "put the genie back in the bottle," so to speak.

    1. Re:Reverse engineering and open source by BdosError · · Score: 2, Informative
      Having the "trick" known is not a defense for violating a patent. In fact once the patent is granted, the trick is known because the patent is published. Having the information known to others is only a valid (legal) reason for disallowing protection of a trade secret.

      Putting "the genie back in the bottle" is not something the patent holder is requried to do, it's simply a practical measure, but that's where the lawsuits come in.</IANAL>

      --
      Complexity is Easy. Simplicity is Hard.
    2. Re:Reverse engineering and open source by StateOfTheUnion · · Score: 2, Informative
      Actually, Patent holders probably don't care too much about reverse engineering because their invention is disclosed and open to review in the patent application. They cannot keep the functionality secret or legally they wouldn't get a patent. The patent gives them monopolistic protection for a limited period of time in exchange for disclosing the "secrets" of their invention.

      (Disclaimer: This only applies when the patent process works the way it was intended . . . the silly patents of late may not apply)

    3. Re:Reverse engineering and open source by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 1
      It might make sense (for patent holders) to make reverse engineering illegal

      No, actually that doesn't make any sense at all. If you create something and patent it, I can read the patent to find out how it works. Why would I bother reverse-engineering it? Why would you care if I did, given that I would only learn the information that's already publicly available for free in the patent?
      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    4. Re:Reverse engineering and open source by zcat_NZ · · Score: 1

      "Publishing your method" is both the requirement and the entire point of getting a patent. If you want to keep your method secret, that would be a 'trade secret'.

      IN THEORY you shouldn't be able to patent an idea that's trivially obvious or where prior art exists. Using checksums to identify files or verify that they were transferred correctly is trivially obvious, and fairly-much the reason checksums were invented. Prior art goes back to the 300-baud-modem days.

      If you've opted for the 'trade secret' route, and someone manages to figure out how your protocol works, either by reverse-engineering (samba, etc) or by virtue of it simply being an obvious idea (checksums, hashes) then it's not a secret anymore. And it's not protected by patent.

      If an employee or contractor leaks your secret you can take them to court and get injunctions to stop the secret spreading any further. But if you don't act quickly enough and your secret becomes public knowledge, you're S.O.L.

      I'm also not a lawyer, but I have a vague idea of how things are supposed to work..

      --
      455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
  13. Re:Idiotic Ending Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't believe the DMCA has removed rights (or freedoms) you once had (assuming you're American)?

  14. Haven't we seen similar issues before? by StateOfTheUnion · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Isn't this a lot like the battles for rights to connect to online chat networks a couple of years ago? I remember folks going after trillian because they didn't want to have third party chat clients connecting in and not letting the chat networks' proprietary client deliver adware/spyware . . .

    Sounds like Kazaa is fighting the same sort of thing for the same sort of reason except that in the case of chat, one must connect to the central servers of the chat netowrk. Can Kazaa really claim ownership-like rights to a network that doesn't depend on their servers for functionality? It would seem that Kazaa has created a Frankenstein monster . . . that perhaps they cannot wholly control . . .

  15. giftd goes too... by someguy456 · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those of you unfamiliar with Kceasy, or windows in general, KCeasy is only a client for the giFT server http://gift.sourceforge.net/ . However, an additional plugin is required to access the Fasttrack network (Kazaa). Thus, I think that only the development of this plugin will cease, and that giFT and KCeasy will live.

    1. Re:giftd goes too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "For those of you unfamiliar with Kceasy, or windows in general...." Ok, you cleared up this KCeasy thing for me, but what about this windows of which you speak. What the devil is it?

    2. Re:giftd goes too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gift-fasttrack is centralized in germany, sharman cant touch it :-)

  16. If this right existed... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1, Insightful
    If this right existed (to keep other people out of your network on the Internet), then none of the IM clients could legally interoperate with the others until they agreed to licensing terms.

    Wouldn't that be lovely?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:If this right existed... by Babbster · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If this right existed (to keep other people out of your network on the Internet)...[silly example]

      If this right existed, then people would be able to require payment for access to pornography sites; folks would be permitted to ban specific IPs, and groups of IPs, from their sites; and Slashdot would be able to have subscriber-specific content. Wait, they can? Shit.

    2. Re:If this right existed... by BillyBlaze · · Score: 1
      It's not that simple. Suppose I make a piece of software which can communicate, using a certain protocol, with other software over the Internet. Do I therefore have a monopoly on the use of that protocol?

      Assuming there are no patents involved in the protocol, no trade secret was illegally obtained, no trademark was violated, no software was copied, and no celebrity's persona was damaged, I don't have any exclusive right to the use of that protocol. It's very dangerous to create such a powerful exclusive right entirely without precedent.

      You give examples, but they are not precedent. Porn sites can require payment, and violating that may be copyright infringement, and if you used somebody's password or credit card, fraud. People can ban specific IPs because they can do whatever they want with routers they own. Slashdot can have subscriber-specific content, but it can't C&D other websites because they use HTTP. In none of those cases does anyone have an exclusive right to use the protocol they created over transports they don't own.

      If Mosaic had a protocolright on HTTP, would the Web exist? Protocolrights don't exist, and that's a good thing.

    3. Re:If this right existed... by Babbster · · Score: 1
      So, software copyright exists but if said software is a network protocol then one can't copyright it? I've never noticed a specific exception in that area when perusing fair use doctrines and reading the laws themselves (probably because it doesn't exist). If someone has actually reverse engineered the software, then it should be easy enough to produce the documentation proving the steps taken to do so. Of course, if, in using the protocol one logs on to a server owned by Sharman to get IP addresses (it has to happen at some point in the P2P process - most programs don't try IP addresses randomly for this purpose), the whole thing goes out the window - protocol or not, it would be their server and they have the right to control access to it.

      In case I wasn't clear above in answering your initial question: You're damn right you have a monopoly over the use of the protocol (read SOFTWARE) you create. You can, of course, give it away, make it OSS, shareware, etc. as you see fit, but it's YOURS. Intellectual property. Just because it uses the Internet doesn't automatically make it community property.

    4. Re:If this right existed... by BillyBlaze · · Score: 1
      There's not a one to one mapping between protocol and software. I'm not arguing that their client or server software is public domain, I'm just saying that there's nothing wrong with someone else making separate software that also speaks that protocol (unless it's patented, or info about the protocol was obtained illegally).

      You bring up a separate issue, whether software can lie about its identity to communicate with a public server. I think making this illegal is also dangerous - faking user agent tags would be illegal. You would create a monopoly right with no societal benefit. Even if it were illegal, P2P software could ship with a cache of non-Sharman servers. And besides, the user (especially if you believe EULAs are binding) would be responsible, not the author of the software.

  17. *rights*??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reverse engineering to be another on the list of rights that have fallen by the wayside

    Where in the constitution does it say we have to right to reverse engineer a proprietary network so we can use it to make money?

    i'm tired of all these folks making up "rights" that don't exist.

    1. Re:*rights*??? by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1
      i'm tired of all these folks making up "rights" that don't exist.
      Hey! We got the right to make up rights! It's in that constitution-thingy you mentioned.
    2. Re:*rights*??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the right to sue people for reverse engineering your software? I think that's a more questionable right than the right to reverse engineer.

    3. Re:*rights*??? by kfg · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's in the Bill of Rights, Ninth Ammendment to be specific.

      In this particular case the right is simply the right to write software. You have as much right to write software as anyone else. The fact that someone else has written some software that does the same thing or something similar doesn't at all restrict you in you your rights to write software.

      What you don't have the right to do is violate their patents and copyrights. If you are not violating a patent, copyright or some other explicit right of someone else, then, well, you're just writting software.

      Because you feel like it, and it's your right.

      See IBM vs. Phoenix.

      KFG

    4. Re:*rights*??? by MrBlackBand · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Where in the constitution does it say we have to right to reverse engineer a proprietary network so we can use it to make money?

      Amendment IX
      The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

      i'm tired of all these folks making up "rights" that don't exist.

      And I'm tired of people thinking we don't have rights just because they aren't spelled out in the Constitution. Remember, the Constitution limits the rights of the government, it doesn't grant the people rights. We have them to begin with.

      --
      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
    5. Re:*rights*??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The slashbots will point out that it is over there next to the right to download all the movies/software/games/music/etc because companies are evil, and they don't deserve to be paid for their work!

    6. Re:*rights*??? by sadler121 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Excellent point. ;-)

      One has to look no further than our own Decleraion of Indepence to see that we are granted, "Ceritan unalienable rights...". Just because these rights are not set out in stone, does not mean they do not exsist, infact, I would prefer they where not spelled out in stone, least some over zealous prosoctor would attempt to charge me with crime on am over drawn technicality.

    7. Re:*rights*??? by timjdot · · Score: 1

      Excellent quote. Maybe now I can remove the tracking device from my cell phone? Technology advanced quite fine for tens of thousands of years without patents. The patent system does not produce scientists or engineers. And it never will. Likewise, when your competitor abuses the commons then you have to also to stay competitive. Reverse engineering is a requirement for competition whether for software protocols, sales tricks, or other aspects of everyday life. TimJowers

      --
      Expect Freedom.
    8. Re:*rights*??? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I'm tired of all these folks making up "rights" that don't exist.

      I'm tired of clueless fools without the intestinal iortitude to post their gripe without logging in. Nice abuse of AC posting there buddy.

      Without reverse engineering you would NOT have the cheap PC's you have today, you certianly would not be driving the car you have and most certianly wouldn't be watching that TV you have.

      reverse engineering has been common place in industry for eons. and used by clever people for centuries before that.... hell MAJOR WARS were won by reverse engineering.

      only a complete and true moron would not know and understand that..... well either a moron or a SCO Executive Staff Officer.. but then that might be an insult to morons..

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:*rights*??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but that argument does not hold water. True, the Constitution does not enumerate our rights. It limits the government. But merely claiming something is a right does not make it so and the parent is correct that that happens way too much.

    10. Re:*rights*??? by SQLz · · Score: 1

      It doesn't have to say it. Don't we get the right to do anything we want as long as the law doesn't actually forbid it? Thats how I thought it worked.

    11. Re:*rights*??? by Marble68 · · Score: 1

      Well put. A professor once told me the classic definition and difference between us (Capitalism) and the USSR (Communism / Socialism) was the USSR's laws stated what the people could do, while ours state what we can't do. Though not the same, the point is similar. You are absolutely right.

      --
      /me sips his coffee and ponders a new sig...
    12. Re:*rights*??? by raidient · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Even then you have the right to break the law, and take the rap.

      --
      My faith is expressed through Nihilism. Do you understand?
    13. Re:*rights*??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then your professor was an idiot and didn't understand Capitalism and Communism, or you're misquoting/misremembering the thrust of his point (which is probably more likely).

      Capitalism and Communism are both economic systems, and have nothing whatsoever to do with people's rights. The fact that many/all of the countries aspiring to Socialism/Communism were frequent human-rights abusers is coincidental and on the face of it has nothing do with Communism.

      For example, most dictatorships are Capitalist, but do not give their people rights. China, despite its government's insistance that it is in fact a country based on "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" is increasingly free-market capitalist, and yet this change in economic policy has not afforded its people increased human rights in any legal way. Singapore is another example of a capitalist nation which doesn't really afford it's people rights; Taiwan until 1987 (I think) was a police state. Brazil was similar. All were capitalist.

      I think it's important that you remember that the vast majority of Socialist countries were born of poor, dictatorial (feudal) countries. The USSR, China, Vietnam, etc, were all nations without guaranteed rights before their respective communist revolutions, and it is not particularly surprising that their new governments continued along that vein.

      The US, by contrast, was founded by a culture born of persecution in England, where the Magna Carta had already substantially limited the absolute power of royalty, etc. They considered England to be not free enough, and England was already one of the freest nations on Earth at that time. Psychologically, they were coming from a different space.

      Now consider Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. While not often said to be Socialist (because that word is a dirty word, these days), they effectively are. Free health care, free education, free housing for those that need it, and taxes above 50% for everyone. A great deal of basic necessities are provided by the state, not the "invisible hand". Are these countries non-free? Hardly. And they enjoy some of the highest standards of living anywhere (in fact, Norway has the highest standard of living in the world.)

      And as Marxists often say, Communism as a system has never been realized; the closest anyone has ever come is the "benign" (snicker) dictatorships that Marx envisioned as a transitional step. Communism as a system is probably impossible, for lots of reasons. But Socialism is a valid (and desirable) compromise, as evidenced by the standard of living in northern european countries.

      The problem (as always) is education. The soviets and maoists recognized this; people were not receptive to the socialist way of doing things, because they were used to the repressive, inegalitarian regimes that had just been overthrown. Their solution was to launch brutal re-education campaigns and forcibly silence those who did not "toe the party line". Horrible shit.

      In the US, we have (had) a culture of freedom. It's generally more difficult to take our rights away (although our current administration is making a damn of a go at it) because we understand and protect those rights. We arm ourselves, we have an "over my dead body" attitude about the government getting too uppity. It's this culture that protects our rights, even more than the constitution. It's our social education. We see ourselves as free peoples and value that. Or at least, we used to.

      Other countries are not like this. They lack our background and our history. Remember, it's not just that we've been around since the 1700s ... before that, we were English, too, which qualified as pretty free and liberal in those dark old days. Can't you see that we're standing on the shoulders of giants?

      This is why everytime the US overthrows a government and attempts to instill democracy, they fail. It's more than just a constitution: it's a way of thinking. People that have n

    14. Re:*rights*??? by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      I'd agree with this. Imagine that just before a war that a company produces a cipher machine, which becomes a standard, like the Enigma in WW2, and gets a patent. During the war, a contractor working for NSA or it's equivalent cracks the code, and uses its own program to listen in on enemy war plans, etc. Following this logic, the company producing the cipher machine could sue the contractor. Or if someone invents a new method of radio modulation. If Sharman can issue a C&D notice, then if the inventor of FM made radios, he could stop anyone from making FM radios. In the same way, RCA could stop people from making tvs that use the PAL broadcasting system. But they don't, and if they had, they would never have become as popular as they are. If Sharman don't let open source clients become available, then many people also won't have the trust in them that there is in open source programs. Who here worries about spyware/adware/malicious code in the linux kernel?

  18. Oh, no! by Joey+Patterson · · Score: 2, Funny

    Quick! Download KCEasy off of Kazaa while you can!

  19. I know it's not gone for good... by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's be clear about the importance of reverse engineering. Were it not for that, if you own a Compaq today, you wouldn't. They reverse engineered the IBM PC BIOS chip way back when, and created the first PC clones. Reverse engineering is a fact, not something that should be made "illegal". Essentially every tire maker has reverse engineered the design of the tire from the first automobile tires, etc. I would argue that nearly all engineering is in some way reverse engineering, and as such, we should be very careful to preserve our freedom to go backwards around stuff... more examples? How about the 900 "Super soaker" knockoffs, despite the original having 10+ patent #'s printed on the plastic device itself? Ever see how many patents are on the cellphone? Yet many companies reverse engineer each other's technologies, and no one really cares -- competition is supposed to be healthy. I don't mean stealing their secrets or making fake Louis Vuitton bags, I mean how the Dooney & Bourke bag looks "interestingly similar" to the LV bag.

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:I know it's not gone for good... by enkafan · · Score: 1

      You bring up cell phones. Would it be my right to reverse engineer my cell phone, and create my own custom phone to get on their network and not pay a dime?

      It's not the reverse engineering that's the problem, it's the piggy backing on anothers network that's the issue.

    2. Re:I know it's not gone for good... by in7ane · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't be able to do it - the billing happens on their end (your phone needs a valid id to which it's use is billed - if you reverse engineer and build a new phone this will need to work as well for you to make calls, and therefore you will still pay). What am I thinking, the phones are not even built by the networks - so what's your argument?

      This is more along the lines of somebody making walkie-talkies and then saying that nobody else can make a compatible walkie-talkie.

    3. Re:I know it's not gone for good... by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      It's not the reverse engineering that's the problem, it's the piggy backing on anothers network that's the issue.

      Kazaa owns the ethernet running into my computer? If not, then how can they claim it is theirs? It consists of neither their equipment nor their content. Writing the program doesn't magically make the network belong to them any more than the webservers all belong to Mozilla, Opera, lynx, or Microsoft.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    4. Re:I know it's not gone for good... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1


      You bring up cell phones. Would it be my right to reverse engineer my cell phone, and create my own custom phone to get on their network and not pay a dime?


      No - that's fraud. To be able to use that network "and not pay a dime" would involve some method of misrepresenting your identity. Now - if you reverse engineer your phone and still identify your account, sure. A simpler example would be building your own landline telephone.
    5. Re:I know it's not gone for good... by aminorex · · Score: 1

      I don't think you've got the concept of IP
      (Imaginary Property) down yet. In IP, if you can
      conceive of it, you can claim that it is yours.

      All this imaginary property reminds me of an old
      Chinese proverb: With one monkey in the road,
      10,000 men cannot pass. Someone please shoot the
      monkey.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  20. Uh, welcome to the internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Did you miss the introduction of MS Messenger and pissing the contest that resulted between AOL and Microsoft over Messenger logging on to the AIM network? The major IM services have routinely blocked third party clients since then, with the client developers working around the blocks.

    1. Re:Uh, welcome to the internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      yes but it has always remained at the technical level

      none of the major messeager nets have ever threatened to take this to court (msn vagely mentioned licenseing at one stage but since seems to have gone quiet)

    2. Re:Uh, welcome to the internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But they've done it through technical means lately, not by suing the makers of the third party clients. (And generally haven't been very sucessfull)

  21. seems cut and dry... by Chuck+Bucket · · Score: 1, Redundant

    if it's their network, anyone not authorized to use it would be in violation, yes? this is why I think BitTorrent is the wave of the future, no special networks used, just those that participate either by dnlding or uplding. Here it just seems to be this cut/dry issue of fair use. Am I missing something?

    POCB

    1. Re:seems cut and dry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think honey glazed ham as a transmission medium is the wave of the future. Please debate.

    2. Re:seems cut and dry... by rainman_bc · · Score: 1

      Question though is how much of that network is provided by Kazaa? If the network's public domain, and not provided for by kazaa, then does kazaa really own it?

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    3. Re:seems cut and dry... by GirTheRobot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it were Kazaa's network, they would be out of business. Kazaa testified in court that they only provide a client.

    4. Re:seems cut and dry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or you could just continue using openFT, included in KCeasy

  22. In Soviet Russia... by moehoward · · Score: 0, Troll


    In Soviet Russia, Sharman squeezes YOU!

    --
    "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
  23. Yes. WE have lost rights... by 7-Vodka · · Score: 2, Insightful
    We loose rights when corporations lobby for and purchase laws like the DMCA.
    We loose rights when copyrights are extended indefinately.
    Even when they fail to purchase such legislation, we loose our rights when we don't have the resources to fight them in court.
    The courtsystem is extremely weighted in favour of the party with the most money.

    Do I have a solution? No. But the problem exists.

    --

    Liberty.

    1. Re:Yes. WE have lost rights... by CylanR77 · · Score: 1

      We loose rights...

      Well! I guess we don't have to worry about laws that exercise tight control over us and are too restrictive, at least.

      --
      http://cylan.deviantart.com/gallery/
    2. Re:Yes. WE have lost rights... by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      once could have been excused. Fat-fingering happens, even to skinny folk. Oh well.

    3. Re:Yes. WE have lost rights... by 7-Vodka · · Score: 1

      excuse my spelling, even though english is my second language I usually don't make such stoopid mistakes : )
      I wish I could use linux at work. Konqueror's spell checking feature is wornderful.

      --

      Liberty.

    4. Re:Yes. WE have lost rights... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I forgive you.

      But only because you're not a native English speaker! You got off lucky...

    5. Re:Yes. WE have lost rights... by nebaz · · Score: 1

      Konqueror's spell checking feature is wornderful

      In this case, since loose is a word, the spell checker wouldn't have helped. :-)

      --
      Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
  24. Gray area by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While I agree that the Bnetd issue was fairly lame, this one is more in a gray area. The FastTrack clients dont run on an independant network, and KCeasys interoperability with the FastTrack network means interacting with Sharman Networks servers to auth the user and provide various other facilities while the Bnetd solution produced a fully independant network, where people could join without any interaction with Blizzards servers at all, and that is the major difference in this case.

    I dont think "Reverse engineering to be another on the list of rights that have fallen by the wayside?" is a valid concern here, because the main issue seems to be that KCeasy interacts with SN servers, in a way that SN has not authorised or granted consent to. If KCeasy produced a fully seperate network, that simply used the FastTrack protocol, then my view would be different, but it doesnt, so it isnt. KCeasy is using the FastTrack network and Sharman Networks servers without consent, simple really.

    1. Re:Gray area by dickiedoodles · · Score: 1

      KCeasy is using the FastTrack network and Sharman Networks servers without consent, simple really.

      Except that FastTrack is AFAIK truly decentralised which means that Sharman has no Fasttrack servers.

      --
      In Soviet Russia Slashdot cliches use you
  25. KazaaLite by strike2867 · · Score: 1

    Speaking of Kazaa, does anyone have any updates on the KazaaLite deal? I still use it daily and have no problems.

    --

    Vote for new mod!!! Score:-2,Imbecile
    1. Re:KazaaLite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is how many exploits have been discovered with the increasingly out-of-date KazaaLite. Who's to say that malicious hackers aren't using it as a possible backdoor? I'd be wary of using software that is illegal, I mean it IS technically 'warez'.

  26. Re:Idiotic Ending Lines by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1
    Please state the list of rights that you have lost

    the right to run a TV ad mentioning Ralph Nader within 30 days of an election for which he is a candidate? "political speech" used to be the least restricted form of "free speech" - now it is arguably the most restricted. And, yes, I know that as long as I could prove to the satisfaction of the FEC that I had had no contact with ANYONE connected to ANY of the presidential candidates campaigns that it would be perfectly ok for me to run my little ad. Problem being that proving such would be impossible, if only because I don't know the identities of everyone connected to all the candidates' campaigns. Much less keep detailed logs of who I talk to in the Walmart checkout lines....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  27. Bogus comparison by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1
    Bnetd wasn't trying to "interoperate" with Blizzard's network. It was trying to make a network that could be used instead of Blizzard's network.

    KCEasy, on the other hand, was providing a way to use Kazaa's network.

    It seems to me that is a major difference. Bnetd is basically competing with Blizzard, and reverse engineering to compete is (or should be) fine. KCEasy is basically providing a way to freeload off of Kazaa. I don't see how they should have a right to do that.

    1. Re:Bogus comparison by oddfox · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked KaZaA was supposedly a de-centralized P2P service, so Sharman Networks does not run the servers. And since when do people do anything but freeload off the FastTrack (KaZaA) network? It's not like you pay for jack unless you're one of those loons that bought the official KaZaA Media Desktop.

      Basically Sharman's getting pissed because people don't have to use their crapass spyware-filled client anymore, and they don't seem to interested in simply booting third-party clients, either, by modifying the network in some way (If that's at all possible).

      --
      "We invented personal computing." - Bill Gates
  28. Reverse Engineering . . . legal by StateOfTheUnion · · Score: 3, Informative
    Reverse engineering is legal; right is an awfully strong term to apply to it . . . but correct (IANAL . . . standard disclaimers apply). Nolo has an article on trade secrets that discusses reverse engineering. Quoted:

    There is one group of people that cannot be stopped from using information protected under trade secret law. These are people who discover the secret independently, that is, without using illegal means or violating agreements or state laws. For example, it is not a violation of trade secret law to analyze (or "reverse engineer") any lawfully obtained product and determine its trade secret.

    EXAMPLE

    XCEL glue is comprised of a trade secret protected formula. Phil, a chemist, analyzes the contents of XCEL glue, determines its composition and recreates the formula. Phil can legally use this information to make and sell his own glue.

    1. Re:Reverse Engineering . . . legal by horatio · · Score: 1

      Correct me if I'm wrong (seriously), but I was under the impression that this is what the DMCA is all about - you don't have a legal right to do *anything* with the XCEL glue _except_ what the directions say you can do with it.

      Don't most EULAs (in this case I guess an AUP for the case of Sharman, and the essence of the DMCA) specifically say "...you may not reverse-engineer, disassemble..."? Does what you're saying imply that the EULA lawyers/corps are trying to write their own law, as it were, and attempting to supercede the actual law?

      --
      There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
    2. Re:Reverse Engineering . . . legal by StateOfTheUnion · · Score: 1
      The DMCA may protect their protocols if the tried to protect their protocols using encryption or other means. But with respect to this argument, the DMCA only protects the copyrighted work and only if it has been protected (encrypted etc.). . .

      If it is encrypted one can reverse engineers it by replicating the functionality with respect to inputs and outputs. If Sharman did not include any attempt to protect their copyrighted work (such as encryption), then the DMCA would not apply (though other laws might) and one could legally look at the code. (Note that the DMCA does not apply to unencrypted CD's but it does apply to encrypted DVD's . . . an important difference)

      If one never clicks the EULA or AUP, then one is not bound by it . . . granted, that means you can't install it, but there are legal ways around that. Do you really need to install the software to learn how it works? Not always (though installation may make it easier).

    3. Re:Reverse Engineering . . . legal by Eraser_ · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Only with pharmaceuticals am I only allowed to do what the directions say. I am allowed to use the glue in any way I see fit. Some ways may kill me , others might not, but those directions are merely a reccomended way to get optimal performance out of XCEL Glue.

      If I want to use it as a thickening agent in my food and it kills me, it's not illegal (suicide laws aside), but it's certainly stupid.

      The directions in my car say I should shift every 2500 rpm or so, but if I run it up to 4000 all I'm doing is wearing the engine and draining my gas money. Nothing illegal in that.

  29. Good analogy? by wtrmute · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dude, that isn't a good analogy by any stretch of the imagination. Kazaa doesn't own its own network, because it's set up using its users' bandwidth; it doesn't in fact provide very much at all, besides the client. After Napster and Audiogalaxy there isn't much in the way of centralization in these networks. What does this mean? It means that KCEasy provides as much of the "network" infrastructure as the real clients. Nothing of Sharman Networks' bandwidth or computing resources are being used up, so why do they get to say who can come in and who stays out?

    1. Re:Good analogy? by fitten · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the term "network" can apply to more things than physical devices such as CAT-5, switches, and routers...

      How would you like someone to reverse engineer the ATM network for your bank, then use their own unauthenticated clients to connect to your bank's ATM network and submit transactions to your bank?

    2. Re:Good analogy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How would you like someone to reverse engineer the ATM network for your bank, then use their own unauthenticated clients to connect to your bank's ATM network and submit transactions to your bank?

      Another a bad analogy. The data on the FastTrack network is open to KaZaa users. The ATM network is closed to outside users and only authorizes transactions based on your credentials, in this case your account balances. The FastTrack network just provides mechanisms for distributing the transfer and storage of files.

    3. Re:Good analogy? by wtrmute · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They'd be tampering with stuff which resides on the bank's servers and isn't meant to be tampered with -- they'd be impersonating me. That isn't even reverse engineering, it's fraud. In this case, the network is being used to upload/download files using whatever (little) authentication is used on the real thing, honestly. It's not impersonating anyone.

      Frankly, when I'm sharing stuff on my P2P client, I (as sharer) don't care if whoever gets it is using Kazaa, KCEasy, Morpheus or whatnot. I'm providing the content and the bandwidth and I don't appreciate Sharman telling me who can talk to me and get it and who can't.

    4. Re:Good analogy? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      How would you like someone to reverse engineer the ATM network for your bank, then use their own unauthenticated clients to connect to your bank's ATM network and submit transactions to your bank?

      If they did it without stealing my money, it'd be great, especially if they charged less than the average rate for transactions, say 50 cents.

      Now, if you're talking about someone connecting to the network and using a copy of my card to take money out of my account, there is a whole seperate set of laws that apply to that.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:Good analogy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do u get a list of files? There has to be some sort of master server that kazaa runs to maintain file and user databases, etc..

      What about when you login to kazaa with your username and password? Kazaa servers provide the bandwidth for that aswell.

    6. Re:Good analogy? by billcopc · · Score: 1

      The only thing being 'stolen' in KCEasy's situation is the FastTrack p2p protocol. There is no network ownership, unlike the bank's ATM system which is owned and maintained by the banks themselves.

      As an aside, there is no such a thing as an "unauthenticated client". Everyone who wants to get on the bank's network needs to provide credentials, generally in the form of the ATM's unit ID which is linked to your corporate account in the bank's database. If you somehow defeat this system by exploiting a flaw in the authentication protocol, then it is akin to trespassing on someone else's property "because the door wasn't locked". You're still in trouble.

      In the case of Sharman Networks, their only property is their own user database and their intellectual property. As long as you don't touch either of those, the network itself is fair game.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  30. In other news... by 3Suns · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... Ford Motors, inc. has announced its patent on "ROAD", a network protocol for piloting land vehicles. Several other companies, including General Motors, DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Nissan, and Uncle Hiram's Buggies also make vehicles that are compatible with the ROAD protocol.

    Ford has threatened to sue these companies, alleging that they reverse-engineered key parts of ROAD, including the maximum width of allowable vehicles, and the use of round "wheels" for efficient travel on ROAD networks.

    --

    -3Suns

    ~~~~
    The Revolution will be Slashdotted
    1. Re:In other news... by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 1

      Further complicating the issue, widespread surveys of SUV owning suburbanites have indicated that there has been little to no interest in getting their vehicles off ROAD.

    2. Re:In other news... by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 1

      The CEO of Ford remarked in an open letter last Wednesday, "It would not be possible to travel across the country in a Hyundai in such a small amount of time unless they were infringing on our IP."

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  31. for people who don't find kazza interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is a piece I wrote for the robot lady article, but I came to it late so nobody saw it I'd like feedback -

    http://interviews.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1 05 582&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=216&mode=thread &cid=8999267

  32. I always think of crap by Omega1045 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Not trying to be a troll here, but whenever I see or hear about Sharman Networks I always think of shit. I would assume that is because of the Charmin toilet paper...

    --

    Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

    1. Re:I always think of crap by sik0fewl · · Score: 1

      Well this time I think they are full of shit.

      --
      I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
    2. Re:I always think of crap by Omega1045 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I visit Movie Poop Shoot often, does that count?

      --

      Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

    3. Re:I always think of crap by Omega1045 · · Score: 1

      Wow, I think the mods are full of shit on this one.

      --

      Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  33. Re:Idiotic Ending Lines by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

    How about the right to make a backup of a CD you bought? Oops, you can't. They are protected and circumventing that is illegal under the DMCA. So if you want to use your right, you have to break the law. That's the same as losing that right.

  34. too bad for Kazaa by sir_cello · · Score: 2, Informative


    Most laws on copyright (e.g. in the UK the CDPA 1988) have _actual_ statutory provisions that allow reverse engineering for interoperability purposes. Of course, as was seen with IM systems, this rapidly becomes an arms race. Kazaa may have sent a C&D, but my strong belief is that it would not be enforceable.

    The question is whether the guy who received it understands his rights or is just going to let himself be brow-beat.

    1. Re:too bad for Kazaa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is whether the guy who received it understands his rights or is just going to let himself be brow-beat.

      Or whether he wants to spend half of his life and all his retirement money defending himself against Sharman Networks.

  35. What's so hard to understand? by mao+che+minh · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Get up off their network, you didn't have permission to be accessing with and/or generating traffic on it. Damn, just because it's FOSS doesn't give the creator the right to access other people's shit.

    1. Re:What's so hard to understand? by DeltaSigma · · Score: 1

      If you don't want a network hosted on the internet to be interoperated with it should be password protected and encrypted...

      ...making a wacky com-protocol isn't security. It's just an odd, but very public, network.

    2. Re:What's so hard to understand? by Experiment+626 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Get up off their network, you didn't have permission to be accessing with and/or generating traffic on it.

      What is their "network"? Does it mean connecting to Sharman's servers? No, this is P2P, there are no servers. Does it use their bandwidth? No, the bandwidth is the users'. The "network" is just the collective set of all the Kazaa clients out there that people are using. So what if someone wants to write a program that's compatible with those clients? Is Apache evil because it's compatible with Internet Explorer's "network" of clients?

    3. Re:What's so hard to understand? by fishbowl · · Score: 1


      "Get up off their network, you didn't have permission to be accessing with and/or generating traffic on it."

      You might make the same argument to keep the ethnic group of your choice from using the public highways, or even from using their own private driveways.

      The Cease&Desistee didn't apparently break any laws. They did, in my opinion, throw away their own rights by complying with the C&D, but that's their own misfortune. But you cannot support the argument that a P2P system uses any network properties of Kazaa or whoever. You'd have to make the same argument that they are "stealing" from AT&T or Comcast or C&W or Earthlink or whoseever wire their traffic goes through. P2P users are paying their monthly bills for their cable modems or whatever.

      By your standards, I ought to be able to deny YOUR permission to use the Internet for whatever traffic you use it for, past your LAN anyway.

      What is it about my or your P2P traffic that gives Kazaa an interest or consumes a resource belonging to them?

      What rights do you suppose have been infringed here? I submit the only rights issue is the one where the right to due process of law is weakened a little bit whenever anyone decides to throw it in the garbage, when they back down and comply the demands on a letter as if it's the first time they've ever seen a bond paper letterhead, and are surely *doomed* if they've gotten a (gasp) *lawyer* to send them a *letter*. Oh my god. A LETTER! We'd better PANIC! And while we're panicking, we'd better make sure we use our right to defend ourselves as shitpaper and flush it!

      Stand up. At least make sure the people who send you a C&D letter are serious enough to show up at a hearing, and interested enough to do what is required to get a court order. If it goes that far, you're no more screwed than if you stand down at the first threat, and you're better off for having at least exercised your rights as a person who lives under a system of laws, rather than a coward who lives under anarchy.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  36. Wouldn't it be funny if... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1, Troll
    Sharman Networks, has sent a Cease and Desist Letter to the maker of KCEasy

    Wouldn't it be funny if KCEasy was a shell company for the **AA, and when Sharman showed up in court to face them...

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Wouldn't it be funny if... by Trumpetgod2k1 · · Score: 0

      Speaking of whom, they're at it again....

      RIAA sues 477

  37. Rights by Progman3K · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >Reverse engineering to be another on the list of rights that have fallen by the wayside?

    All rights that are not defended will fall by the wayside.

    --
    I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
    1. Re:Rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All rights that are not defended will fall by the wayside.


      Then I am off to live by the Wayside. Cuz the rights there ROOL.

      WaySOIIIDE!

    2. Re:Rights by Progman3K · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you're promoting anarchy.
      btw you should have posted AC, your point has merit.

      --
      I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
  38. Intimidation by The-Dalai-LLama · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not technically adept enough to argue the qualities of the app itself, but I think it's interesting to note that a couple of posters have mentioned that KCEasy folded easily.

    "I feel that inclusion of FastTrack access with KCeasy is not worth a legal battle between Sharman and myself"

    The above is what concerns me. I don't know jack about German law, but I think it's sad that we are again seeing that the mere threat of possible legal action is an effective deterrent.

    Today's Davids will never even get a shot at their Goliaths if they can't even afford the price of admission to the arena.

    The Dalai Llama
    ...yeah, I know they fought in an open field...whatever...

  39. At the end of the post by BCW2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The question of the right to reverse engineer. If reverse engineering becomes illegal and is applied retroactivly, wouldn't that invalidate about half of everything M$ claims or owns?

    --
    Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    1. Re:At the end of the post by leperkuhn · · Score: 1

      Only if they were to create it after the law was passed, as you cannot punish someone for a law that went info effect after the alledged crime. That's why slave owners weren't jailed.

      --
      http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
    2. Re:At the end of the post by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      They can pass tax laws that cover back to Jan 1 this year, so don't bet on it.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    3. Re:At the end of the post by vandel405 · · Score: 1

      That is called ex post facto and the constitution explicitly forbids it.

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/lexicon/ex_post_facto .h tm

    4. Re:At the end of the post by k3v0 · · Score: 1

      not if they pay the politicians enough $$

  40. What hypocrites.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always get a good laugh out of the actions by kazza co, they are deliberately trying to avoid gettting themself sued(they operate outside the US, in an area friendly to their profiting off of others copy rights without premission, etc), but have no problem with throwing lawsuits and making threats(suing the **AAs, using DMCA against kazza lite, threatening KCeasy, etc).

  41. Oh well, by cgreuter · · Score: 1

    At least I can still get the plugin code through a file sharing network.

  42. Re:THIS JUST IN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This just in -
    That was a stupid troll. Nice try.

  43. You misunderstand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Compaq, after reverse engineering, didn't then sneak into Intel's plant and crank out chips. They had to build their own plant.

    Same here. KC didn't bother creating their own network, they are leeching off of Kazaa's. THAT is the point of the C&D.

    1. Re:You misunderstand. by ydnar · · Score: 1

      Intel didn't own the plants producing IBM's BIOS chips, nor does Sharman own the computers that make up the Kazaa network.

      So your analogy does hold up to an extent, but maybe not the way you intended.

      y

  44. Reverse Engineering is legal, but not access by EaglesNest · · Score: 5, Informative
    Under U.S. Copyright law, fair use allows reverse engineering of funcational components because they are ideas (or facts) not expression. However, a provisions from our friend the DMCA (17 U.S.C. 1201) makes it illegal to bypass an overt technological protection that restricts (a) access or (b) protects the rights of the author. Think of this as breaking open a safe (illegal) to get to something inside that you're allowed to copy (legal).

    As for intruding on a private network, the network is composed primarily of users, if I'm not mistaken. Still, companies like E-bay have been successful in using trespass (to chattles) to keep people off their servers if they make it clear that they don't want them on there.

    1. Re:Reverse Engineering is legal, but not access by sir_cello · · Score: 1


      The DMCA splits the rights into two "right to access" and "right to copy"; you need to be an authorised user to have a "right to access" a work before you can then have any other rights, such as the "right to copy".

      In terms of reverse engineering, at least in the UK under the CDPA 1988, it only applies if you are already a legitimate right holder of the work in question. In other words, you cannot steal a program and reverse engineer it, but you can purchase and reverse engineer. Also, in the UK, the provisions _specifically_ state that any EULA clauses that attempt to prohibit reverse engineering are null and void. So the software license cannot stop you from the right to reverse engineer.

    2. Re:Reverse Engineering is legal, but not access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Law has no bearing on anything at all when you cave in and comply with the first strongly worded suggestion. Obeying a C&D letter is your choice. Subjecting the questions of fact and law to a hearing in the appropriate venue is not only your right, but it is also your responsibility.

      A day off of work, a new tie and a shoe shine is not going to bankrupt anyone. A couple hours of consultation with an attorney is wise, but I get tired of hearing how people backed down to the first bully who sent them a letter, and THEN whine about legality, their rights, etcetera.

      Here's a clue: You SURRENDER your rights, and you OPT OUT of the system of laws that protects you when you voluntarily comply with ANYTHING short of a court order, a contract with consideration, or a police officer command.

      A Cease and Desist order is just a fancy way of saying "we'd like you do do what we say, and we'd appreciate if it you do whatever we say without asking for anything in return."

      That is worlds different from a court order, where you pretty much have to do whatever the court said or else pay fines and/or go to jail.

      Any schmuck can write a C&D letter. It really makes no difference that the schmuck happens to be an attorney -- he's still nothing but a private individual at that point. Only a Judge can issue a court order. And you are entitled to a hearing on ANY question of law. Depends on your state whether you're entitled to a jury.

    3. Re:Reverse Engineering is legal, but not access by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1


      However, a provisions from our friend the DMCA (17 U.S.C. 1201) makes it illegal to bypass an overt technological protection that restricts (a) access or (b) protects the rights of the author.


      There is already a lot covering the distributed nature of the FastTrack protocol. This alone seems to nullify the argument. But let's assume that there are central servers involved. Or let's transpose this argument to IM services that certainly use central servers.

      The issue is bypassing a technology that restricts access. However, no such action is being taken. Authentication and access control is adhered to. Keep in mind that the DMCA specifically allows reverse-engineering for compatibility. Although I must admit... this tidbit of the DMCA seems to be ignored.


      Think of this as breaking open a safe (illegal) to get to something inside that you're allowed to copy (legal).


      Think of it as opening a safe that you are authorized to open, using a combination you are authorized to use, but deciding against wearing the official Acme Safe Company safe gloves while doing it.


      Still, companies like E-bay have been successful in using trespass (to chattles) to keep people off their servers if they make it clear that they don't want them on there.


      Keep in mind that E-Bay is not simply a network composed of users. The content is provided by users. But the system itself is entirely owned and operated by E-Bay.
    4. Re:Reverse Engineering is legal, but not access by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Think of it as hsving a security passcard to access a building (which you are allowed to have) but copying the security card to another device and then using it to access the building.

  45. It is not just funny, it is a good idea by The+Importance+of · · Score: 1
  46. But Kazaa is such a reputable organization, WTF?!? by turnstyle · · Score: 1, Funny

    Kazaa is such an reputable organization! How can this be possible?

    --
    Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  47. Have the courts ever ruled on something like this? by StateOfTheUnion · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Are there any reviewable court cases that indicate whether a company like Kazaa owns the FastTrack network or not? The FastTrack network doesn't use Kazaa's servers or other resources. It does use Kazaa's technology. Which can be reverse engineered legally (see Nolo's article on trade secrets.

    If the trade secret/network can be reverse engineered and this is legal and interoperating causes no impact on Kazaa's equipment etc., does Kazaa have the right to prevent other clients from using what is only the same protocol and network standards which were legally reverse engineered?

    My gut feeling is no . . . but I wonder if the courts have already ruled on this . . .

  48. Memberships, not technology under hostage. by miffo.swe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Kazaa should have made their network password protected and the servers members only. That way bypassing the membership would be illegal. Reverse engineering is something vital to competition and should not be hindered.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
  49. rsync? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't that patent be voided by rsync?

  50. Actually, it would. by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Interoperability with someone else's device is exactly the point of reverse engineering. You may look at Sega v. Accolade (pre-DMCA) for a good example, where it found that Accolade could copy those functions made by Sega required for compatibility with their console. The analogy with game (client) and console (server) works pretty well.

    The same right was explicitly upheld in the DMCA (Title 17, Chapter 12, Section 1201f). So it should be 100% legal. Not that it seems that way, but anyway. What may be illegal is to use said software, since you may be bound by the Terms Of Service in order to connect to the network. But that is an issue between Sherman networks and the users, not the developers. Genuine slashlawyer advice(TM).

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  51. . . . and what about Poisoned for Mac OS X? by Ineffable+27 · · Score: 1

    If I follow, it seems that Poisoned also provides a front-end to access FastTrack. Does this mean Poisoned will also be getting a letter in the mail soon? Or will Sharman lay off Poisoned because there is no official KaZaa for Mac OS X?

    --
    "He'd be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once." - Steve Jobs on Bill Gates
    1. Re:. . . and what about Poisoned for Mac OS X? by macmaxbh · · Score: 1

      These C&D letters are only valid in the US. KCeasy, and Xfactor (another Mac OS X frontend) are based in the US, and have removed the plugin or in Xfactor's case, disabled with a "You will not hold the author of Xfactor responsible for this" warning when you enable FastTrack.
      gift-fasttrack is not based in the US. Neither is Poisoned (the leader lives in Switzerland). Therefore, gift-fasttrack and Poisoned's FastTrack inteface are staying.

    2. Re:. . . and what about Poisoned for Mac OS X? by akadruid · · Score: 1

      KCeasy's author is based in Germany. The C&D letter is invalid but the author cannot take risks with lawsuits. As with all other projects of this kind, Sharman are try to pick up litres of dihydrogen monoxide with their fingers - the GFL license enables anyone to take the ball and run with it.

      KCeasy are only starting the game. Now it's time for others to play the next move.

      --
      "Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
    3. Re:. . . and what about Poisoned for Mac OS X? by macmaxbh · · Score: 1

      KCeasy are only starting the game. Now it's time for others to play the next move I got my info from one of the Poisoned developers--they have no intention of removing the plugin at this time. I seriously can't tell you anything about gift-fasttrack but what he passed along to me, which was that it wasn't based in the US.

  52. Reverse Engineering... by zarthrag · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...Has gotten to be as nortorius as patents. So I'll just use my classic example of why this could lead to a much worse world:

    If everyone had the right to stop reverse engineering of their products, Ford should be allowed to send cease and desist letters to anyone who makes cars. Because building interoperable parts, or better cars infringes on their rights. Besides, who needs a Ferrari anyway?

    --
    Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
    1. Re:Reverse Engineering... by mustangsal66 · · Score: 1

      "Ford should be allowed to send cease and desist letters to anyone who makes cars."

      Umm.. Although I love FORD Henry wasn't the first.

      http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aacars st eama.htm
      Old Engraving depicting the 1771 crash of Nicolas Joseph Cugnot's steam-powered car into a stone wall.

      ok...internal combustion engines, here ya go...

      1858 - Belgian-born engineer, Jean Joseph Étienne Lenoir invented and patented (1860) a double-acting, electric spark-ignition internal combustion engine fueled by coal gas. In 1863, Lenoir attached an improved engine (using petroleum and a primitive carburetor) to a three-wheeled wagon that managed to complete an historic fifty-mile road trip.

      Although some argue it was Gottlieb Daimler or Karl Benz who invented the first car.

      Henry perfected the assembly line.

      As for Reverse Engineering... Almost everything was reverse engineered from the original, in fact some of the original inventer's products aren't remotely as popular as the 'copies'... (ie.. tampax vs Kotex)... ok strange example I know... but in the NE US.. it's true.

      --
      Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
      Sig changed for readability by G.W.
    2. Re:Reverse Engineering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Henry perfected the assembly line.

      He also pioneered the concept of a living wage and a limited work day.

    3. Re:Reverse Engineering... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Ford invented the assembly line, not the car. So, they could sue companies like Honda and GM, but ironically NOT Ferrari, since they don't use an assembly line!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  53. ugh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Reverse engineering to be another on the list of rights that have fallen by the wayside?"

    You have no 'rights', only varying shades of 'wrongs'.

    Ya, ya, -1, Cynical.

  54. One more reason to... by tunabomber · · Score: 1

    Switch to OpenFT. It's where all my files are shared, although I still freeload off of FastTrack (mirroring whatever I downloaded to OpenFT).

    BTW, I use Poisoned, a good giFT front-end for OS X.

    Here is a list of the most popular giFT front-ends.

    --

    pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory71 ...
    1. Re:One more reason to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've recently rejoined the gnutella network using gtk-gnutella and been pleasantly surprised at how good the gnutella network is these days -- it got pretty shit for a while. Plenty of sources and good quality stuff.

  55. Reverse Engineering is still legal!!! by SB5 · · Score: 1

    Reverse Engineering is still legal!!!

    I mean, Attorney General Ashcroft has been doing it to the Bill of Rights for years now!

    --
    If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
    it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
  56. Good Point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Tell me what's SO BAD about emulating the Battle.net service? Game pirates were already playing TCP/IP games and still are."

    Good point.

    Sharman protecting FastTrack, Blizzard protecting battle.net, but protecting them from what is the question.

    Why would these companies fight so hard...

  57. LOSE != LOOSE - GET IT, SLASHTARDS?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    You damned idiots! How can you not learn the fucking English language when there are plenty of grammar Nazis to slap you down every time you make the same stupid God damned errors?!

    You, sir, are an imbecile.

  58. Yeah, that was kind of flamebaitty, sorry. But... by turnstyle · · Score: 1
    BUT, it is worth having an overall picture of the ethics of a company, whether RIAA or Kazaa.

    Just because people don't like the RIAA doesn't make Kazaa good.

    --
    Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
  59. Dl old version from Kazaa and share it :) by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    You can still Dl the old version of Kceasy 0.11 from Kazaa.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  60. Misspellings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Sharman Networks, has sent a Cease and Desist Letter to the maker of KCEasy

    Shouldn't that be a Ceasy and Desist Letter?

  61. Excellent Point by Famatra · · Score: 1

    Excellent point you made: We need to look at the big picture of these companies using patents to stifle P2P progress.

    The Public Patent Foundation and the EFF (Patent) are starting campaigns (Story here) to invalidate bogus patents like the one here, #5,978,791 , you mentioned. Time to donate your money to these organizations (or your time with letters, and email to inform the public if you cannot afford it) to curb corporate threats to technological innovation.

  62. Jabber transports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds about as justified as suing the authors of Jabber software that allows access to proprietary networks like MSN through transports.

    1. Re:Jabber transports by Trejkaz · · Score: 1

      Please don't give them any ideas.

      --
      Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
  63. I just had an incredibly original idea... by tukkayoot · · Score: 1

    I'm going to patent the process of reverse engineering.

  64. Why just KCEasy? by gmuslera · · Score: 1
    It's not the only one FOSS P2P program that interacts with Fasttrack networks. MLDonkey does too (and with a lot more networks), and giFT (is KCEasy based on it?) had that capability too.

    Anyway, think that is a mistake doing that, even leaving the "free speech" argumentation on a side. More clients means more ways to access means more people that is at the very least aware of them, and a far richer network. Of course, they could had seen that a dangerous percent of the clients of that networks weren't their own client, but still that was not the right reaction.

  65. Playground Bullies by Webmoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If this is copyright and/or patent infringment, then it's illegal. If it's genuine theft of intellectual property (information gained by illicit means), then it's illegal. But if it's reverse engineering based on observing the technology, then it should be fair game.

    If it's true reverse engineering, then this is just a bully threatening a weakling on the digital playground.

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
    1. Re:Playground Bullies by Ravenrage · · Score: 0

      "genuine theft of intellectual property"??????? how many times do we have to say this???...it is not theft unless you are depriving the owner of said property...you can't steal music..the bits remain so...it can't be theft... wanna get high?

  66. Fork KCeasy then wait? by Famatra · · Score: 2, Informative

    "I feel that inclusion of FastTrack access with KCeasy is not worth a legal battle between Sharman and myself"

    Couldn't someone, who is willing to fight Sharman Networks, fork KCeasy and then await another letter? Also if you want, you can still access the fasttrack network with a previous version here (0.11) I think it was 0.12 that was nerfed.

  67. Good point, Fork too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Excellent point!

    Also, couldn't comeone fork KCeasy, someone who is willing to fight, and then tell Sharman:

    "You god damn shit headed mofo's, I have a RIGHT to CLEAN ROOM reverse engineer your god damn NETWORK, FOO!" cept in leet talk.

  68. Trade Secret not Patent by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    EXAMPLE XCEL glue is comprised of a trade secret protected formula. Phil, a chemist, analyzes the contents of XCEL glue, determines its composition and recreates the formula. Phil can legally use this information to make and sell his own glue.

    Keep in mind this applies to trade secrets, not patents. In order to have a trade secret, you cannot publish it. i.e. A Trade Secret cannot be a patent because you would have to disclose, in this case, the formula.

    If the formula for XCEL were patented, There would be no need for reverse engineering as Phil would already have the formula for XCEL (it was published for patent protection), and couldn't reproduce it legally without a license.

  69. Good question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Anyone have any guesses?

    There has been chat around here about someone who wants to tell Sharman to cram it (since you have a right to reverse engineer a network) to simply fork KCeasy (since its GPL) and await another letter.

    Let us set up a forked project then, with donations to fight this bullshit.

    I am willing to fight, show me the way.

    (p.s. mod parent up plz)

  70. Blizzard is in the right by CrazyJim0 · · Score: 1

    Blizzard uses a CDKEY to validate the game is legitamate and not pirated.

    BnetD allows you to play without a CDKEY.

    In fact thats the only thing good about bnetd is stealing Blizzard games.

    Blizzard is one of the few companies that makes quality video games anymore. I don't see why people are up in arms against them.

    1. Re:Blizzard is in the right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BnetD allows you to play on BnetD networks without a CDKEY.

      Blissard allows you onto a Battle.net network with a CDKEY.

      Orthogonal capability.

      Battle.net is a pice of shite a lot of the time. BnetD was pretty damn good most of the time.

      Blizzard are arseholes on this one, I'm afraid.

    2. Re:Blizzard is in the right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact thats the only thing good about bnetd is stealing Blizzard games.

      Not really. Blizzard still refuses to add direct IP connection to their games, making it impossible to play LAN games if you have multiple subnets. Bnetd was an excellent solution for this problem, and I really miss it.

    3. Re:Blizzard is in the right by KeeperS · · Score: 1

      Have you tried BattleLAN or LANCraft? Those programs let you play TCP/IP games with Warcraft 3. Hell, there's even a program called Farsight that works for Macs.

  71. irony by minus_273 · · Score: 1

    anyone else here find it ironic that a company that thrives on vionating other people's intellectual property rights is getting angry when given a taste of their own medicine?

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
  72. Reverse engineering in a clean room is legal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Excellent question. Reverse engineering in a clean room is perfectly legal. In fact you probably would not be here looking at slashdot but for reverse engineering by Compaq of the old IBM computers to make the first IBM clones. Here is an interesting article and quote from Analyst: Intel Reverse-Engineered AMD64:

    While exactly copying a processor's microarchitecture would be illegal, creating a compatible product through the use of an original clean room design is legally protected.

    From Wikipedia, an interesting article (Clean room design) about how the old IBM computers were reverse engineered and cloned:

    Clean room design is an attempt to reverse-engineer a design and then recreate it without infringing any of the copyrights and trade secrets associated with the original design, since independent invention is a defense against infringement. Because independent invention is not a defense against patents, clean room designs typically cannot be used to circumvent patent restrictions.

    The term implies that the design team works in an environment that is 'clean', or demonstrably uncontaminated by any knowledge of the proprietary techniques used by the competitor.

    Typically, a clean room design is done by having someone look at the system to be reimplemented and having this person write a specification. This specification is then reviewed by a lawyer to ensure that no copyrighted material is included. The specification is then implemented by a team with no connection to the original examiners.

    A famous example is from Compaq who built the first clone of an IBM computer through a clean room implementation of the BIOS.

    The term clean room used on its own has a different meaning in the field of integrated circuit manufacture.

  73. Kazaa sucks anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kazaa isn't exactly providing a legal service by allowing people to download pirated software and music. I do see how they can threaten anyone with legal action being in the position they are in.

    Thats like a drug dealer calling the cops because he was robbed.

  74. VERY good point. by swerk · · Score: 1

    In the case of a game server, that's exactly the issue, Blizzard (or whoever) _does_ want responsibility for the network's activity, and since authorized clients represent sold copies of the game, they'd have good reasons to want to only let those clients interact with the server and each other.

    In Kazaa's case, the goal is supposedly to share files with as many people as possible. "Unauthorized" clients actually help the system, creating more download sources and more unique files. What's in question then is control. Kazaa would like to control what clients talk to "its" network, but claims no control whatsoever over the content distributed through said network.

    This seems a common trend in the software world, companies want more and more _control_, whether or not it means improving the experience of using their product. As a certain convicted monopoly has shown, excessive control can indeed lead to increased profit. What Kazaa should remember, though, is that it can also make users bitter enough to bail on a product.

    On a side note, it was largely software companies' control-hungry actions that led me to abandon proprietary software altogether on my home machines. Granted I'm a weird case, but I'm definitely not alone in being fed up with software companies being uptight bullies.

  75. Re:Simple solution... by Havokmon · · Score: 1
    And I contend that because I have a Terminal Server CAL on the server itself, and only one person at a time can use said CAL, that it doesn't fscking matter WHAT client I connect with.

    Wrong. You have to have 2 CALs. One server, one client. If your client is Win2k or XP, you already paid for a client CAL.

    Then yes, it doesn't matter what software you run as long as you paid 2 CALs for that one user (isn't it lovely? :P)

    --
    "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
  76. Never heard of giFT before. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But now I have and it supports platforms beside win32 nice, thanks Kazaa!!!

  77. How dare they! by The_Quinn · · Score: 1

    How dare you steal my bandwidth while I'm busy stealing music!

  78. Re:Idiotic Ending Lines by The_Quinn · · Score: 1

    Yeah, and why don't we have the right to back up our 20 dollar bills? Those suckers are expensive to replace.

  79. Re:Uhhm... Who are we LOOSING our rights ON? by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

    Cry havoc, and let loose the rights of engineers!

  80. Re:Uhhm... Who are we LOOSING our rights ON? by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1

    ...or is that cry "hacker"?

  81. Just in case you didn't notice by buss_error · · Score: 1
    Reverse engineering to be another on the list of rights that have fallen by the wayside?"

    What makes you think reverse engineering is legal when it isn't a huge corporation doing it? Look at DVD Jon and MPAA. Look at any of a few dozen cases where a megacorp's technology was RE'ed, and you'll see hundreds of lawsuites. It may be that technically RE'ing isn't illegal, but the legal battles to enforce your rights make it effectively illegal in this age of lunitic IP laws. Information may want to be free, but the legal battles will give any average joe pause.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    1. Re:Just in case you didn't notice by raidient · · Score: 1

      "Look at DVD Jon and MPAA."
      DVD Jon was found not guilty.....twice.

      --
      My faith is expressed through Nihilism. Do you understand?
  82. Kazaa is a pain anyways by thecombatwombat · · Score: 1

    I use Poisoned for OS X. Connects just like KCeasy through gift.

    I tend to filter out all the kazaa results anyways, most all are blocked by firewall, mislabeled or other similar issues.

    Someone like Sharman forcing alternative clients out is sort of just funny, but hey, I don't think this will make KCeasy that much less usable.

  83. KaZaa Vs. Riaa by the_non_geek · · Score: 1

    I wonder if that would stand up in court. The music industry using unfair tactics to destroy their products and business. If it did work and KaZaa won, what then?

    1. Re:KaZaa Vs. Riaa by shadowsurfr1 · · Score: 1

      It just might stand up in court. I think I read somewhere in some EULA that KaZaA is not responsible for the file transers, thus releasing them from blame. If KaZaA won, the apocalypse may be soon after.

  84. Re:Simple solution... by WNight · · Score: 1

    There's no legal precedent to support client-access licenses being requirred to access a server.

    That's simply supported by any contracts you might sign with Microsoft.

  85. better? by grepistan · · Score: 1

    The /. community makes their analogies like children pulling words out of the dictionary at random and stringing them together.

    --
    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
    -- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
  86. How to run KCEasy with the FT plugin by kyhwana · · Score: 1

    Simply grab the setup file for version 0.11 (Which includes the FT plugin), install it, then install version 0.12 (which doesn't include the FastTrack Plugin) which will then give you the option of using the previously installed FT plugin.
    Enjoy.

    --
    My email addy? should be easy enough.
  87. Re:Idiotic Ending Lines by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

    I can't say anything about the US (or the rest of the world) but in Belgium you can bring a damaged bank note to the bank and have it replaced at no charge as long as the serial number is still readable. Can't say the same thing about CDs.

  88. Re:Idiotic Ending Lines by The_Quinn · · Score: 1

    Sounds like a good opportunity for you to open a record company that let's people trade in damaged music for new! You could get rich!

  89. Reverse Engineering: A right! by Gleef · · Score: 1

    I consider the right to examine and explore the world around you, a fundamental right. The right to learn how things work is a part of this. This is a natural right that was not enumerated in the constitution because it was not in jeopardy at the time.

    Reverse Engineering is merely a more technically rigorous expression of this right. I certainly don't see how it is "simply legal". In fact, in DMCA cases, it's technically illegal, but it's still a fundamental right that the constitution does not give the government authority to restrict.

    --

    ----
    Open mind, insert foot.