Slashdot Mirror
SCO's Biggest Investor Admits It Loves IP Lawsuits
Roblimo writes "A Baystar Capital spokesperson has finally admitted, directly and on the record to NewsForge reporter Chris Preimesberger, that they believe SCO's only viable asset is the potential proceeds of lawsuits against Linux users and vendors. 'We're looking for the best return we can, and we think the focus should be on IP licensing (and enforcement),' said BayStar spokesman Bob McGrath."
... is a bad investor. =\
::signature space for rent::
Hmmm, I should contact them. Maybe they are interested in my bridge selling business too ...
No really....If that's their best Asset, They will go away that much faster.
Best plan evar!
My old sig was REALLY stoopid.
It's like watching Darth Vader turn evil and become the dark side as it reveals its true intentions. Soon they will become another geek household name to focus angst and hate against like MS and SCO.
CNN is carrying a story about one of the new investors in SCO, BayStar Capital Management, which wants SCO to "shake up its management and sharpen its focus on the potentially lucrative legal fight" and "spend less money on its Unix products." One has to wonder what BayStar is expecting as a reaction to their being so... blunt.
Let's face it, business is about money. If some companies believe in "doing no evil", it's simply because, in the opinion of the founders/managers, "doing no evil" is a good way to make money. On the long term, though, pissing everybody off is probably not a viable business strategy. Sometimes you work yourself into a corner (like SCO has) and you keep making the wrong decisions in the hope that everything will turn out fine in the end.
> "We're looking for the best return we can, and we think the
> focus should be on IP licensing (and enforcement)"
This means in reality:
"We're patsies who believe any old crap people tell us. come to us, ask us to invest, make up a story and if it has big enough dollars at the end we'll give you heaps to get you started"
I'm contacting baystar with my idea of suing the president for presidency, because I SECRETLY won the last election, just nobody knows about it. I'm assured of victory. Trust me
Would I lie?
Investor softens stand on SCO
Interpretation: BayStar wants McDarling gone because his big mouth is sinking the ship.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Isn't RBE in for 30 million. thats more than Baystar.
How can Baystar be the "biggest investor" ?
April 21, 2004: SCO hires BertYoung as chief financial officer to replace RobertBench. Young's previous experience includes stints as CFO and COO of dot-bomb archetype marchFIRST. Obviously need a financial officer who will get them out of the trouble they have got themselves into Read more - http://sco.iwethey.org/
Business Voyeur
So let me get thsi straight..
You were convinced by MS ot invest in SCO despite them havign no IT Ligation exp in IP lawsuits on the basis of what as theri Unix business is dead?
That is the biggest msoke screen I have seen form any VC firm
ignore the FUD folks..a buyout from MS is brewing I think..
Don't Tread on OpenSource
The world is full of rich scummy lawyers suing everyone for anything
News at 11
In Soviet Russia Slashdot cliches use you
But not nearly as unbelievable as it sounds. Like any 'good' software company, they believe their value lies in their IP, which it does. SCO seems to feel that people have infringed on their IP significantly enough for them to make a business out of taking money back from those whole 'stole' from them.
This in itself isn't really that horrible, because they're just updating their business model to profit off of all the supposed stealing thats been going on. That is, if they could somehow get licensing fees from everyone running linux, that'd be a viable business.
Of course, because it's SCO, no one really stole anything (as far as we can tell). And that's what makes them evil: making false accusations about infringement to drive stock price up, not pursuing what is rightfully theirs under the law.
The reaction shouldn't be "omg! software company thinks their IP is valuable!" it should be "omg! software company is making outrageous claims about what they own!"
may be against Baystar. i would assume that a capital investment company, especially one that invests in IP would do a complete and comprehensive evaluation of what they are investing in. which leads me to this: SCO painted a picture with *so* much recovery (lawsuit/licensing revenue) that it blinded them to the reality of situation.
one hopes that when the countersuits start flying that baystar is named as a defendant right under sco.
eric
> they believe SCO's only viable asset is the potential proceeds of lawsuits against Linux users and vendors
This should likely only say vendors. Vendors using Linux are ripe for the picking, right Darl? Ah, but potential is never quite the same as reality, and that's the problem with SCO's claims... they are rooted in a fantasy.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
My God! SCO's Biggest Investor Admits It Loves IP Lawsuits?! I am shocked! Shocked, I say!
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
They are only thinking of one factor here, return on investment. Simple economic theory is to put your money where it will grow the fastest. I mean really, who would by SCO!!! BayStar is just looking to get as much money as it can from a bad investment before it goes under, nothing more.
The flip side to this coin is that SCO might actually think that they have one friend in this fight, when actually, they trying to cover their own ass[ets]
You only live once, so you might as well have fun before you die.
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Did you even read the first four or five words of the story summary before posting?
--- I do not moderate.
The world is full of rich scummy lawyers suing everyone for anything.
It's tempting to say:
Those rich scummy lawyers are not distributed evenly. A disproportionate number of them live in America, the Land of Litigation.
However, according to this article, it's just not true.
-kgj
-kgj
Sounds like there is somebody in senior managment who is just not suing fast enough or well enough to suit Baystar Capital. It is an odd state of affairs when a company, other than a law firm's, most important product is law suits. That's messed up, dudes. :P
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
I thought BayStar was in for the same ammt as RBC. Dunno, but the RBC is the largest earner in Canada. One year they made about $4bil profit... and I saw a kid pan-handling in front of one of the RBC branches. *sigh*
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
We find out that Microsoft's investors like profits.
Duh.
Its all SCO has. The lawsuits are all they have left.
+
ACK
Not bad for a company that sounds like a cross between a David Hasselhoff TV show and a Ford minivan. Is it named after Frisco Bay, or located in the Frisco area?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I think they should move from SCO to the Red Cross. The Red Cross could use someone who could miraculously get blood out of a turnip.
<sig>no sig</sig>
...is the problem with capitalism. The theory behind it is that when everyone chooses an optimally greedy strategy, society as a whole benefits. But you have cases like this where society clearly does not benefit, and countless hours of everyone's time are wasted. If the legal system were perfect, perhaps, then everything would be fine. But in practice it never is. My point is that people should be eternally vigilant rather than have blind faith in the system, which I perceive many Americans to have. And oh, another observation, don't confuse capitalism with the free market; the latter is unconditionally good, but the former is a double edged sword and needs a lot of checks and balances.
The fact that Baystar wants to "bet" so much money on a case that is not just up in the air, but leaning strongly in favor of IBM and Linux users, makes me think Baystar would be just as far ahead to take their 20M to Vegas and roll the dice.
:-)
Now that they've placed their bet, they should lose it. Nobody places a bet on a horse and then asks for their money back halfway through the race just because the horse is lame and the jockey is, well, Daryl McBride
-EK
Disclaimer - I don't gamble, nor do I promote gambling
There is nothing else that SCO has that is even remotely valuable. Nobody is going to want their outdated Unix anymore, especially since they'd be sued if they even looked cross-eyed at Linux. Suing your customers tends to drop ye olde customer satisfaction rating down quite a bit. The only way BayStar will come close to recouping their $20 million is if SCO survives long enough to win its suits. Both of those prospects are dubious at best. I think the big thing that BayStar (and others) will be learning is not to take investment advice from Microsoft.
...no one is going to sell my bridge!!! I've spent a good deal of time making a nice home under here. Grrr... ;P
Un-news
Oh baby yeah! Let me litigate your intellectual property! mmmm show me your code!
Oh yeah! my stock is going up! yeah my stock is so hard! suck it! pump it then suck it!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
The two are pretty much interchangable. Capitalism is the result of market freedom in which people are able to do what they want with their own goods/services/etc.
"The theory behind it is that when everyone chooses an optimally greedy strategy"
Capitalism is based on productivity through work/effort, not "greed".
Any public mistake a hedge fund makes, usally means the end to the hedge fund. Their multimillion dollar investors won't stand for this and will start moving their money to one of the many other hedge funds.
Hedge funds are in the business of making money, and I would bet the Baystar has same amount of money invested in Open Source companies.
Hedge Fund don't lose money, they just make less.
Chris Southern
Option 2 is expensive and risky by comparison. Sure, you want to develop new products, but if you are not milking what you can out of the existing ones, then there is no point in developing new ones! Management is being (criminally) negligent if it doesn't pursue option 1. LOTS of companies make money this way by licensing technology. If SCO does have a basis (or management believes it has a basis) for these claims, then management has an obligation to pursue this course.
The really interesting points here, however, are:
>When the slashdot crowd are actually starting to like Darl for sinking the ship, THEN its a good idea to get rid of him.
Not only is McBride our top pick for steering SCO into the ground (taking the investors with him) by using his large mouth to talk about "millions of lines of literal copying" that they have again failed to identify -- thereby again failing to comply to the court order to be specific (the next hearing will be very interesting. Will IBM finally ask for sanctions, or are they just too nice for that? :-) -- but he's also raiding the SCO coffers all by himself, lifting $968,000 out of the company last year! Almost a million dollars in salary+bonus from a business that's a COMPLETE FAILURE! Well, I guess it's not a complete failure if you count the core business as being 'stock scams', but let's just pretend they're a litigation company instead.
McBride, we're on your side! Don't step down now -- You've got to ride this out (...and into that orange jumpsuit...).
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Did you know that America has far far more lawyers per 100,000 of the population than any other country in the world with something around 300 per 100,000. That number is increasing.
I think Britain is second with somewhere around 90 per 100,000.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
What are the social and legal effects of this kind of business going to create? In the unlikely event that SCO were to win big money for BayStar, other groups will begin to seek similar "investments." I see a progression here:
1. Mutual funds and VC groups begin to seek out luctrative litigation opportunities.
2. People begin to invest in these groups, because of the high rate of return. Skilled lawyers scour the land for untapped "violations" or negligence.
3. The well begins to dry up. Investors need to keep the cash flowing in. but the only targets left don't carry enough cash to make them good targets. So they lobby the Federal Government to mandate the remaining targets to carry insurance.
4. The risk is spread out, and we all pay more to keep BayStar's numbers in the black... with no social benefit whatsoever.
5. Repeat, industry by industry.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
But if you buy a linux licence like EV1 did, you get a subpoena by IBM, and end up in a lawsuit.
MORAL: Stay away from the Litigous Bastards
That should be "Baystar speaks out."
In Kingston, Ontario (where I am) most pan-handlers are high school students cutting class, so the money would certainly go to partying of some kind. You can tell when pan-handlers from elsewhere come here to try and earn... they're broke as hell. I would think the most money anyone could make pan-handling in Kingston would be about $5/hr, during peak times.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
The dot-com crash occured in April of 2000, which is 4 years ago (NASDAQ crash), not 2.5 years ago. This is when the recession started.
Those of a certain political pursuasian like to blame the recession on Bush when it actually started under Clinton, so this misperception is common.
...and we think the focus should be on utterly crushing SCO and similar companies in court and removing every last vestige of their existence from the planet.
Almost every legal analyst says SCO chances to win are slim to none, yet for some reason, people are still investing in this stock. They'd have equal risk but higher payoff potential if they'd sink their money into the Powerball lottery.
He would make it onto my List of FAILURES!
What really burns me up about a lot of businesses and people these days (especially in the Occupied States of Amerika) is that they put profit ahead of everything else. There used to be a time in the country when businesses were run with respect and dignity for their fellow man. They treated their employees and customers like human beings. Those compnaies did as much as they could to make sure they didn't shit on anyone else in America (of course they were shitting on the rest of the world which wasn't any better). Now, in the name of increased profits, we are losing things that are rightfully ours. As employees we are losing our rights of sick time, head days, vacations, and the 40 hour work week. Who can you thank for the wonderous concept of the 40 hour work week? The former worker's groups of America (unions) which have fallen victim to the stranglehold of greed as well. These days' there are people who work MORE than 40 hours a week and have been folled into treating it like it's some kind of honour. Wake up you damn fools!!! You're wasting your lives! Your personal life (time spent with your kids, your wives, even your pets) is far more important than wasting your time making money for your employer. They should be giving you the respect of a 40 hour workweek AND higher pay commensurate with the cost of living.
Of course many of you have been brainwashed by the propaganda that if you work the 80 hour week you are "macho" or there is a "pot of gold" waiting at the end of the rainbow. Many of you believe this is and always has been the American way. Meanwhile, there are those of you who have been shat upon by industry and are disoriented. Some of you blame the current administration (while they are connected, they are not 100% responsible). Others blame the DotBomb bust (which is evidence of a different kind of greed and being shat upon, but it's not the major source). Back in the 20s, this country used to actually have communist gatherings in every major city. I'm not talking small groups of people either. I'm talking gatherings in the thousands. If things continue to decline as they have for the past few years, maybe some of the more intelligent people will move back to the left a bit. Maybe they'll start realizing that the ONLY thing our corporate owners care about is THEIR bottom line. You can all go get stuffed as far as they are concerned. Their hideousness is showing through lawsuits like this one and all the ridiculous patent and copyright claims and the passage of the DMCA (thanks to the last legitimate president in office).
Yes, Darl McBride is only a sign of the times. And, as expected, he and SCO are being proven out to be FAILURES!!!
Who is Twirlip of the Mists?
you are the guy who thought that the dot-com crash occured on September of 2001. Buster, that was a plane crash, not a dotcom crash.
Good to see a neo-nazi among us again! The good ol' "Zionist Occupied Government" slogans are back!
"Back in the 20s, this country used to actually have communist gatherings in every major city. I'm not talking small groups of people either. I'm talking gatherings in the thousands. If things continue to decline as they have for the past few years, maybe some of the more intelligent people will move back to the left a bit."
Oh. a Stalinist actually? You've got to be kidding: a move to fascism in this way would not be "intelligent" in the least.
"thanks to the last legitimate president in office"
The current President was elected the same way the previous one was.
Just begin boycotting all their invests.
And all fiaSCO investors too.
"Law suits. When you can't make money any other way"
This is the same place that adds ridiculous-looking "U" to words like favor. Oh wait: you are right, we is wrong.
Given that this is SCO, I imagine they'll:
a) Drop the current charges against IBM.
b) Make some new and even more vague charges.
c) Raise lawsuit to 10 billion dollars.
While SCO may be able to scare away people from switching to Linux, with all the defense funds that have been popping up, I strongly doubt they'll be able to scare any current users into licencing their IP. Baystar will never see any money from it.
The only one laughing all the way to the bank is Microsoft. I'm sure they love this spin from Baystar "This Linux lawsuit is what has value! Screw the rest, this is the goldmine" when in fact, it's a bloody weak card against a giant in IP. The remaining business is simply even worse.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
the copyrights to UNIX System V. Not as far as Linux is concerned, anyways.
I suppose there is a chance that IBM could be found liable for breaking some contract provision they had with SCO over UNIX code. Perhaps some of that code may have even found its way illegally into Linux (although absolutely zero proof has been presented as yet).
The bottom line is that SCO will never see Linux users pay licensing fees to them for their IP because the WHOLE POINT of free software that the code is free! If any code is found legally infringing, it will be gone and replaced with restriction-free code.
Persuing a business model of getting licensing fees from free software is a complete non-starter: it will never work! Baystar (and RBC) are either completely oblivious to this fact, or are acting on MS's behalf to slow Linux's adoption. Perhaps both.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Let's count every Buchanan vote as a Gore vote. The ballots submitted that had no votes on them? Count them as Gore votes too!.
It seems like anyone's not liking of criminal mismanagement and Pump-And-Dump rules would trump their like of IP lawsuits...
I wonder if they'll let Darl share cells with Martha Stewart?
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
SCO Unix is behind the times and they know they're losing customers to Linux, Sun and Microsoft. So instead of being creative and coming up with new products they've decided to take the easier strategy of suing their competitors to syphon off some of their hard earned cash.
Now if only SCO can either create or acquire something of value to license, they'll be able to pull it off...
Do you have ESP?
I love the smell of nice, hot McDonalds coffee in the morning.
How stupid and evil. What vision of live does this guy have ?!
What I don't understand is..why doesn't SCO just ask for a quarter or something per copy. I know I know, that requires a checking of personal greed, but when you think about it, thats all they really deserve. They aren't the ones actually doing the improvement on the code base, or finding new and innovative ways to implement it, thats what the open source community does. With a proper tracking system (or at least one that could estimate properly, like ASCAP or BMI licensing if I remember correctly..(please someone explain this if i'm wrong), this could be feasible.
Sco simply doesn't deserve to get paid exhorbinantly for what others have innovated, even if they created it in the first place. Its like saying "Well, yeah you had the idea on how to use it properly, but I would have had that idea eventually too..pay me!"..BS..total BS.. I do hope the courts look at it like this and new law is drafted to address it.
Usually businesses use investments like this in secret so that business they have made the investment in gets all the bad press. I guess we have become so desensitised by sex and violence in our daily lives that they don't care anymore!
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
Dole had the decency to concede when he lost, and did not stoop to having his lawyers lie in court and attempt to disenfranchise an entire state by altering their actual votes.
I offered the CNN story yesterday -
SCO Investor wants its money back - Friday April 23, @03:14PM - Rejected
Basically, they already asked for their money back. But it seems they will agree to huge changes where SCO goes for more litigation cash.
The parent should be modded up - the CNN/AP story is informative.
From VA Linux's most recent 10Q filing with the SEC:
We rely on a combination of copyright, trademark and trade-secret laws, employee and third-party nondisclosure agreements, and other arrangements to protect our proprietary rights.
Nope. If you have banned corporations, you can't have a free market, or free capitalism. Corporations are nothing other than voluntary organizations where people get together to further economic or other goals. Things aren't very free if you ban these.
Something tells me that if they oust Darl he'll.......
Sue.
That is signed Saddam Hussein. Oh wait. It is signed Kenneth Lay.
I personally find it relieving to see truth start to poke its head into play. This is why IBMs game plan is so strong, patience is a virtue, and they are execizing their power in a calm and controlled fashion. The key to a good lie is being able to use the lie and then put it behind you; SCOs lies and fabrications can't stand up to the light of this kind of media attention forever and now we see the curtain coming down. I dont think they realized how difficult continued deception can really be.
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
It is my bridge and I am its troll you cannot live here without paying the toll.
[burn karma burn]
Pixels keep you awake!
I wonder why they want to be anonymous? The recommendation.
Does everything include nothing?
> Kingston (where I am, too) has atrocious vagrancy problems
I would have to agree. It's really sad.
> not totally unrelated to the centralization of federal prisons in the area
My experience is that most ex-cons flee the city after being released, because they don't wish to stick around. I guess some stay, but for the most part they depart.
> lack of sustainable industry.
This is likely the real problem. Kingston's ecconomy is terrible, due mostly to the corruption of city officials, from what I can tell. Remember the Tall Ships fiasco? They spent thousands on food, and lost $700k on that one. Not sure where it went, but it went. Also, Block D! I've never heard of a lot like that anywhere in the world, where countless opportunities for development have been thwarted by locals wishing to keep their view of the harbour. It's really a sad state of affairs. Any time a developer has come to develop Block D, they have lost their shirts or just barely escaped with a huge loss of profit. Then there was the whole Memorial Centre fiasco with that famous Las Vegas singer, that only drew about 700 tickets. They were expecting thousands! Oh and when CCR played a reunion concert, the Kingston City Council decided not to back it; the concert was a huge success anyway! I was there man, and let me just say that CCR totally ROCKED. The City had a chance to recoup losses from the previous disaster and they opted out from backing CCR out of fear, or perhaps stupidity in motion.
> In the summer the tourist industry is focused around Princess and the downtown area, and I gather it's possible to do fairly well pan-handling, or playing music on the street.
Personally, I think that relying on the charity of others is a hard sell. Buskers make a lot of money because they are entertaining, but what about the ones that just suck? There are plenty of those trying to merely exist. The noise!
> It is non-taxable income, so $5/hr is really equivalent to $8/hr working, and I'd think that'd be a low ballpark figure for the summer (albeit perhaps a bit high for winter).
Agreed. Winter on the street would be damn hard in Kingston. Summer, would be easier but still very difficult. If I was homeless, I'd cross the border and head for Florida (and lose my ID on the way).
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Bloodbath McGrath is telling SCO: Dump all your products, because they're worthless, and concentrate on suing people.
No, this is totally incorrect. They exist because people get together to form a company.
""Banning corporations" is soooo nonsensical because by default, corporations don't exist"
This is rather dumb. By default, no organizations and no economic activites of any kind exist, but once humans start to do anything, then they both do.
"Corporations are the bedrock of capitalism"
No. Letting people make their own economic decisions is the bedrock of capitalism. Organizations based on this (companies, corporations, etc) are just a natural outgrowth.
" They are far more than voluntary associations of people."
That is all they are.
Isnt it a bit strange to have a company litigating for a business (Laywers included)? What overall value does a litigation bring to society? I would much prefer fines and other punishments because todays system encurage people to sue not for justice but for money alone. There is something fundamentally wrong if you can make more money by litigating than by producing goods and services.
It can only hurt the overall economy so i dont understand how it has survived as a system.
HTTP/1.1 400
From McGrath:
I think that statement (esp. adding "enforcement" to it) as well as this summary of the NY Times article by the author caused the OP to make the allegations.
According to those two statements, one could conclude that legal action is all Baystar is looking for.
Bob, you sound like a real ass!
The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
I'm beginning to think that Baystar and RBC are indulging in the best troll and waste of time of Open Source developers ever, so I think ways of returning the favour should be looked into.
Is there any way we as a group can hurt both Baystar and RBC for a lot more than their 50 mil investment? Can we find out and boycott companies where they have a major stake? What other actions can we legally take to make sure that the message of taking on the OSS community is a very expensive hobby?
At the end of the day, SCo may be a smoking hole in the ground, but it would be nice if the puppetmasters felt the pain too.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
using this whole deal as a stock scam I wonder if the deep pocket investers like Baystar can be sued for the trouble this has caused? I smell class action!!
Lets see now, SCO has:
...Maybe that's why BayStar now wants their money back from SCO?
- no patents
- no copyright claims on Linux (the kernel has been certified free of copyright infringement, SCO have failed to show even a single line of copied code, despite being ordered twice to do so by the court)
- no trade secrets
- no trademark issues with Linux
todays system encurage people to sue not for justice but for money alone
With all due respect,WTF are you talking about? What does it mean to "sue for justice?" In modern society, we have two forms of litigation, criminal and civil. In criminal litigation, society sues through its government to seek remedies against those who commit a crime. Those remedies take the form of incarceration and fines. In civil litigation, individuals sue for remedies due to economic harms caused by the conduct of another. Remedies are either legal (that is, money damages), or equitable (that is, an injunction from further conduct). The later is much rarer, mostly because litigation is too expensive to justify the cost of seeking only an injunction.
In that sense, why are you whining about people suing for money? That is, in fact, the ONLY reason to sue -- it is the only remedy the court has to give at the end of the day. Nothing else would make any economic sense.
It can only hurt the overall economy so i dont understand how it has survived as a system.
You make the strongest argument against your hypothesis with this conclusion. As you have observed, civil litigation has survived as a practice in every modern society on Earth today. People continue to invest in litigation, both asserting and defending, because it serves an economic purpose to do so.
It does not hurt the overall economy therefore, which is why it has survived as a system.
The bottom line, really, is to compare the presence of civil litigation
but its more like this:
Dump your products, because you are no good at, and have no special expertise in selling them. Let others do that, while collecting license revenues for their use of the intellectual property that you acquired, albeit from others.
What Darl is doing is amoral, and his elders by not intervening (which they do often enough in other situations) are complicit in his amoral behaviour ... the intent of their agreement of IBM never stretched this far, injustice is being done regardless of wether he thinks he is right according to the law.
...
Guess the church of LDS approves of his behaviour
I can only assume you've been crying for a very long time.
The article has a quote where Baystar "told NewsForge Thursday that it doesn't believe SCO's senior management is experienced enough in IT litigation to fully reap the financial benefits from the company's intellectual property." The problem is, SCO doesn't really own any IP from what I have seen thus far.
They do not own the copyrights to the Unix source code, as that was explicitly exempted in the agreement between Novel and old-SCO. They do not own the specifications for Unix, which is now a public standard known as Posix. They do not even own the Unix trademark, which is owned by the Open Group.
It seems to me that all they really own is the abililty to license the Unix code that belongs to Novell, which is why they have to pay Novell a portition of the licensing fees they collect. The fact that Novell has the ability to override licensing decisions made by SCO (such as trying to void IBM's license in regards to AIX) indicates to me who is really in charge.
Personally, I hope Baystar suffers a huge loss for their decision to back such a stupid lawsuit.
Someone should spend the time to develop an RFC for a desperatly needed protocol: Lawsuit-over-IP
Baumi
If we want them to do something else, we need to make provision for that in law
I agree that the rules need to be fixed, however, who do you think makes the rules? We need to start with a division of power between corporations and politicians, similar to what we have between police/courts and politicians. Only then will voters have a chance at reforming the psychopathic entity that we corporations.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
They can't lose. If SCO prevails and Linux users have to pay, then they share in that income. If SCO is defeated, then they can sue Darl and company and share in the proceeds from that. Anyone would take that sort of deal. Anyone without a soul, that is.
Darl McBride is the best thing to happen to Open Source.
Only problem is that it will still be a year or so before we realize just how great of a service he is/was to us.
but he's also raiding the SCO coffers all by himself, lifting $968,000 out of the company last year! Almost a million dollars in salary+bonus from a business that's a COMPLETE FAILURE!
What's the going rate for a good actor? I mean, you have to admit that his impersonation of a corporate CEO isn't all bad - especially when you consider his seemingly natural sbility to include some rather comedic interludes.
Corporations, by design, are very accountable and very responsible. They must serve the needs of the workers, tne customers, and the shareholders, or they will fail. No corporation that ignores any of these three groups is sustainable.
Ethics? Well, they do reflect the ethics of the shareholders, workers, and customers. If they don't, they fail.
Erm. during the height of the Cold War (the 1950s), the ruling class (government) crushed the populace with extremely high taxes. JFK started to bring these down. The taxation by the ruling class was indeed ruthless exploitation, and it still is now.
"Now you can get away with exploiting the workers again"
But the rulers have been bringing taxes down. So much for that theory.
"The Robber Barons are back and this time they are playing hardball.Let's see, the Walmart heirs are worth 5 billion each and never worked a day in their life!"
So what. That is their business, not yours. Keep your greedy nose out of others' wallets. Whether or not they are barons, they certainly haven't robbed anything or anyone.
"the top elite families envisioning the angry horde rising up and demanding communism"
That is the last thing angry hordes do. Communism has typically been imposed by tiny elite fascist groups against the will of the people. Lenin is the best example of this: he overthrow a democratic government, and then spent a few years slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Russians who did not want to be forced into his giant slave plantation. The hordes, the workers, suffer the worst under communism.
"Corporatism" is a mythic bogeyman made up by the likes of Chomsky, who use it as an excuse to ban free-market activity.
Sounds very similar to what has already happened in the Medical "industry". Doctor's malpractice insurance is through the roof, and they are required to carry it so that crumbs like the legal firm of "Scumbag, Ambulance & Chasers" can stay in business airing their awful TV commercials. Net result is the doctors pay out the ass, and in turn we pay out the ass, with absolutely no social benefit (except to the lawyers and insurance co's).
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
That would essentially transfer control of patents from the people to the State. There has to be a better way to do this than to give control over to the ruling class.
Get him! He's threatening our hegemony!
Seriously, this is a ridiculously spun article. As pointed out, the spokesperson said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about suing Linux users and making money. He said SCO should focus on IP licensing and enforcement, which is what companies who own valuable IP do. As you pointed out, VA Linux says the EXACT SAME THING!
Let's not get ridiculous here. Then again, what am I saying? This is Slashdot, where's become the norm to have ridiculous mindsets and baseless opinions, rather than the simple tech news site it used to be before VA Linux got a hold of it...
... against cruel and unusual punishment.
In fact, it would probably be cruel and unusual punishment to both of them!
Vice President Gore? At last? Tell us, when are you going to invent another Internet?
B*R and RBC "punk'ed" SCO last week and made quick cash off shorted buys. Back when RBC bought in, they even admitted they were covering short exposure. If they hadn't wanted to nuke the stock price, why the public posturing. Why threaten the value of their own holdings?
what about soney and phillips? they bought intertrust soley for IP lawsuit behind it. that's how companies work? and like monkey said..he simply said that the only thing worth a damn in the company anymore is the potential proceeds of a lawsuit...not that he loves them...ha. i doubt anyone could love something so painstaking. that is, unless you're filing in the rocket docket of the eastern district of texas...as mentioned earlier this week=)
Companies to include your in boycott list
Open Standards Portal
Maybe that's why BayStar now wants their money back from SCO?
Not quite. My assessment is that they never expected Darl to go hog wild on the PR front, nor did they expect him to be "bright" enough (in his own parasitic, pathetic way) to realize he was being set up to drive SCO into the ground.
Looking at BayStar's backers, the initial move against OSS was tremendously clever and dangerous. By funding small battles in minor lands, the goal was to poison OSS. Apply a stigma to it, make it look shady, risky and dangerous and corporate America will stick with the institutions of Microsoft, Solaris, Oracle, SCO, etc. (this theory helps explain why Oracle and Sun have appearances of being on the "wrong" side of OSS and may be receiving subpoenas in the matter - Oracle already has).
Many of Groklaw's commentators have difficulty understanding why SCO, BayStar, Boies & crew, Sontag, and many other intelligent (ethics aside) people bet on such a ludicrous case. Sontag's recent copyright to patent morphing attempts, for instance, is terribly weak and Sontag clearly must be aware of it. But this case wasn't initially propped up to be the primary battleground between the proprietary software world and OSS. It was intended to be a lengthly skirmish between a pump & dump effort from a long-dead UNIX vendor and OSS.
What went wrong? They hired the right white-shoe legal firm for the job (Boies), greased the pols (Hatch) and got the right court. What they didn't expect is an effective, organized opposition (e.g. Groklaw) and more so, did not count on losing the traderag spin (you can bet there's been some money spent to protect that message, but you can't stop them from dropping the paid spin once the issue goes mainstream, although there still is the occasional hack for hire out there). Oddly enough, though, the greatest mistake was trusting Darl and Chris to remain stupid and unaware that they were being set up to fail. Darl in particular believed the lies and the thought that he could actually own the empire that controlled what is presently OSS got him. Imagine the power and wealth from being the CEO to own Linux? They shouldn't have underestimated Darl's ability to self-delude, let alone his greed and power drive. The created their own monster and can't control him (though BayStar is now trying to put the proverbial genie back in the bottle). BayStar has a slight problem in this move, though, as it won't immediately kill Darl and instead, may make him feel even more attacked. Having dealt with pump & dump schemers like Darl before, the last thing you want to do is corner him. BayStar should have moved to redirect (e.g. offer another $20 mil or so and slow things down and move the matter off of the front pages of the tech press. Either that, or promote Darl to some "critical" to allow him to focus on building the future super Linux company and "not be distracted from the day to day of nasty legal stuff" - anything to get him out of SCOg).
This truly is terrible news for the anti-OSS coalition. Fighting the main battle on this issue is a historic error. Should Linux be permitted to be decreed "legitimate and safe" through this process, you can expect Microsoft to lose its OS business within 5-10 years (being perhaps relegated to an office suite vendor), Sun left to push high-end AMD or Intel boxes, and Oracle simply to perish (hey Larry, can you say "Post-gres-ql?" I didn't think you could!).
IBM's motivation is tremendously historical. They got screwed by the OS play with Gates the first time around and are salivating at a royalty-free OS that frees them from bundling leverage and other annoyances, let alone the license expense. Although they derive their own benefit, kudos to IBM for escalating the skirmish into an all-out war.
*scoove*
what matters to 'outsiders' is whether they have a *chance* of winning a court case, not whether they have any real ip.
The day-to-day investors in this scheme are of little relevance. BayStar understands this case is a dog and it won't win. It had hoped, however, to fire off a plethora of anti-OSS IP cases to poison OSS for BayStar's real clients.
If you're trading on SCOG or any other BayStar venture, you'll eventually get hurt. Understand there are ways BayStar can make money while their investment tanks (I learned firsthand from one).
Should BayStar be working for anti-OSS clients (which it is), SCOG's litigation failure and demise is of no concern. It's a cost of doing business in the effort to make OSS untouchable to corporate America. That's the expected outcome. The grand-slam is getting Sen. Hatch and friends to push anti-OSS legislation, under piracy, homeland defense, etc. guises.
Die In A Fire
And so should each of their executives separately or all together.
People who just want to rub strangers together in the hopes that money will fall out are the kinds of parasties on humantiy that really need to exit the gene-pool.
Those who are proud of their position and goals in this respect need to willfully, and of their own violation, seek and recover the clearly present and valuable "gold like substance that marketers insist will be good for the economy" from within the heart of any really nice hot flame. They do, after all, seem to so enjoy the heat and entropy they try to extract from anything useful that comes near them.
They should do this dressed only in a festive goat skin, or perhaps the flesh of their offspring, equipped with only a cheap aluminium spoon.
First one out with a full jar of plasma gets an executive bonus, a writeup in CIO magazine, and a seat on a board of directors...
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
The theory behind it is that when everyone chooses an optimally greedy strategy, society as a whole benefits.
No no no!!!
Pay close attention.
Capitalism is letting those who create capital keep the capital.
AS A RESULT they use that capital to make more capital. ETC.
AS A RESULT the amount of capital in the society as a whole INCREASES EXPONENTIALLY.
AS A RESULT productivity increases. Government income increases, Money available to make war increases. Abilty to win the next war increases.
Capitalism is an evolutionarily advantegous trait. (AS IS socialism, democracy, pluralism, courage, hard work, and optimism)
THE KEY IS THIS : 99 OUT OF 100 PEOPLE SQUANDER THEIR ASSETS. ONLY 1 IN 100 IS COMPELLED TO REINVEST REINVEST REINVEST IN A PERSONALLY POINTLESS GAME OF EMPIRE BUILDING. HAPPY WELL ADJUSTED PEOPLE DON'T ACT LIKE THIS. BUT THE FEW WHO DO BENEFIT SOCIETY WHEN IT NEEDS MORE CAPITAL.
I can say one thing: SCO - Stolen Code Overhere
Bangladsh, Somalia, Ethiopia, Erithrea. Not that I don't like capitalism but your line of thinking is a huge generlization. Capitalism mixed with a (mostly) lawful and well governed, democratic society would be a better definition of a potentially successful system...
Thank Tom Daschle. The tax cut would have been a lot larger, but he is greedy and stingy and endeavored to reduce it.
" And my taxes went up this year across the board"
No, it is not. It is their money, not yours. You sure seem like a greedy SOB. As long as they earned it, or someone gave it to them fair-and-square, it is no-one's business. They didn't steal it from anyone, certainly not you. So MYOB.
"At one time, there used to be an ideal that it was rightful for an individual to only take what they needed."
And you want to impose on others your own standard of what need is. Well I've got news for you: you only know what YOU need. Stop trying to run others' lives.
"I am working with groups of people to tear down people who think like you do"
You mean greedy SOBs that are too lazy to earn what they want but not too lazy to steal it? Hope you get a one-way ticket to Gitmo, that's for sure. Guys like you working to "tear down" freedom belong there.
"The end of this terrible tyranny WILL end even if it means bloody revolution."
Or at least you will smash out my window and steal my TV.
"Trust me, whether you like it or not, the people who make $50,000 and less are in the majority. We will defeat your kind."
I actually make a lot less than you. However, unlike you, I have not totally turned green with envy over what is in the wallet of those who have earned more.
You are getting no-where too. You might have groups of people working for your greedy-grab robbery revolution, but there are probably only about 13 of you per state. Every time you rise up and take action, like your heroes in the Weathermen and Tim McVeigh, there is a reaction which further diminishes the numbers of neanderthals like you.
Secret investments are a product of sex and violence. Right.
When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
Nice rant. Feel better to have go that off your chest? I'm not sure whether it's worth my time replying to all that flamebait, but then again I don't want some of your "theories" going unquestioned.
1. Who exactly says that Linux refers to 'just the kernel'?
2. There is nothing hypocritical in drawing a line between heavy-handed RIAA overreactions towards fileswappers and enforcement of the GPL. The assumption that everyone on here is a pirate and a thief is a typical FUD smear and potentially defamatory. Lucky you hide behind anonymity.
3. You're all over the place in this one. Let me just say that most academics I know would not be pleased to be described as "students". Oh, and the unemployed. Talk about hard targets!
4. Some non-slashdot types actually do know and care about the SCO-Linux issue and other computer related information. And since when do people at the "mall or coffee shop" care about anything besides their latte or their orgy of consumption? Or their enormous cars?
5. "If a Windows company or even Microsoft itself owned a 'tech news' site and posted anti-Linux articles all the time"
Sounds like most of the computer media to me.
6. You've got me there. The unmatched quality and diversity in pop music today has no equal. On a similar subject, Hollywood movies and American TV are also bywords for mediocrity. They are popular because morons are constantly saturated with messages that they need/want it.
7. See #2. And stop defaming me. But while we're on the subject of Kazaa, it seems more than a little appropriate to me that a company that has made its money on spyware and piracy should be inflicted by this sort of thing.
8. Now we know what direction this comes from - the disgruntled McCarthyist distrust of anything that doesn't make money for a small group. Now there's an attitude I often find at the "mall or coffee shop". Anything free must be contaminated by hippies. Probably packed full of drugs or something.
9. I'm not surprised that the editors don't like you if you always post like that.
10. See #9.
11. Someone like you accusing /. of spin and hypocrisy? Very amusing.
12. Yes, /. don't like Microsoft. Big deal. Not what I would describe as a revelation.
13. This opinion poll shows that a sample size of less than 300 self-selected idiots is not particularly relevant. The site crashed when I tried to vote, too.
14. Didn't Microsoft Borrow(TM) the whole idea of a GUI from some company back in the old days?
15. The people who say "Linux is ready for the desktop" never specify whose desktop we are talking about here. No, it's not for the completely untrained user, but surely any Microsoft trained person would be capable of running apps under X? Not all Linux time is spent at the console you know.
16. Spyware is an unfortunate choice of words when describing windows XP, and you have obviously missed the point. The issue with XP is not that media player grabs song titles, but that it and other parts of XP contain Microsoft backdoors allowing examination of a computer from Redmond...
17. Wow, IRC. Great evidence.
18. Banner ads? What banner ads? (Firefox!)
Once again, sorry for responding to the troll, but I couldn't let some of those things go unanswered...
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
-- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather
SCO's IP has been coopted, and it is seeking a remedy.
The fact that there's an "entrepreneur" who sees this as a business model is an entirely separate problem.
His character is of course putrid. But then, so are the characters that created his oppotunity by stealing the IP that he then bought.
In the final analysis, this is morally a case of two wrongs don't make a right, but the law is on his side.
How appropriate...
umm, i thought i was in a thread about baystar and SCO? how is your rant related to the subject?
What they didn't expect is an effective, organized opposition (e.g. Groklaw) [...]
Which is a classic error for any corporation looking at any volunteer effort - to assume that, because the volunteers are not doing this for a living with a corporate infrastructure behind them, they are incapable of organized, sustained, intelligent, and effective effort.
They make this mistake when analyzing the software development and support efforts. But FOSS' track record is finally bringing the most perceptive of them to an understanding of the error. (It's also rubbing the noses of the most outperformed in this simple truth, as well.)
Now SCO has made the same mistake when it came to our abilities on the legal and PR fronts. They targeted IBM's teams (a mistake in itself, since IBM has a long history of defending against bogus IP claim terrorism). Then they found themselves fighting a hydra-headded monster, with major brainpower, skills, and persistence. (And with NOBODY who could declare a surrender and make it stick. B-) )
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
They might as well get into the suing bussiness. Its not like anyone is going to buy anything from them. As a BSD user, I can say I dont like them much either, picking on bsd's little brother linux :P
Even when Baystar first announced they wanted their money back, a child of 5 could see that Baystar wasn't doing it because they have suddenly become our friend.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
But what if some day VA Linux is owned by someone like Canopy? On the stock market such a thing can happen fast. Caldera once was a real nice, fluffy buddy too.
Then you would learn that the patent system and todays copyright legislation, as are a problem. Not who owns what. Because this can (and will) change. Wasn't that one of the reasons to make the GPL?
I have no sympathy for BayStar. I hope they lost their money. I was right. They did know something about SCO business practice. It's unlikely that they invest tens of millions of dollars just because of an advice from Microsoft. This proved it. Baystar is just as greedy as SCO and a big Microsoft lackey.
Today, it was discovered that many lines of code in Linux are almost identical to those in SCO's Unix.
They came in the form of:
" int i; "
Some more clever coders had changed the 'i' to different letters, or other times, to WORDS in order to obfuscate the code theft. After seeing this hard proof of IP theft, SCO is now taking aim towards many small development teams, and has started searching through all the code on Sourceforge.
"I thought I was just making up my own code, with my own methods. But today I got a Cease & Desist letter from SCO, informing me that I had been abusing their intellectual property all along! Apparently, their IP rights date back even further than Wolfenstein 3D!"
-John Carmack, id Software
"F*ck! Why didn't I think of that?"
-Bill Gates