warping of space time (both proven with physical tests, by the way)
You cannot prove that. What's been proven here is that results of
experiment matched with theoretical predictions which based on wrapping of
space-time. What you have to understand is that other theories could
possibly predict that too. MOND for example could explain some chunk
of General Relativity and before we dismiss these other theories I'd like
to point to Newtonian Dynamics. Despite of been technically wrong we still
use it and build upon it. What would prevent us from discarding General
Relativity and building on (expanding) MOND. So, basically, what I am
trying to say here is that wrong equations may give correct answers.
Could you explain how this could possibly have any bearing on ID?
Well, consistent derivation of all of science from basic principals
would make case of proponents of ID more difficult because as of now
they rely in part on a messy state of affairs in modern physics like
current inability to reconcile General relativity with Quantum Mechanics,
existence of plethora of cosmological theories etc. In other words there are
too many holes in modern science which leave a lot of possibilities for one
to insist on divine intervention. Consistent theory would eliminate much
of it making work of ID proponents harder.
It is sad, really, that some people believe that science and religion are mutually exclusive. I think the problem stems from the belief that science has something to say about religion, and religion has something to say about science.
It is true that science and religion are not mutually exclusive. However you
are wrong that they do not have common subject to talk about. When you
work, let say on corrosion of metals you indeed hardly intrude into
domain of religion but whenever you talk about origin of the Universe you
basically over-step scientific domain therein lies the problem.
So why are the people pushing it almost universally fundamentalist Christians who hold to a literal Biblical interpretation?
Because it would potentially farther their agenda of "proving" existence
of God. However we should judge any proposition on its own merit and not
on whom it is associated with.
Your religious bias is showing.
That is not valid against any proposition. Religious people are
perfectly cable making use or Reason and should not be dismissed
purely on their bias.
If it is valid, then there is a hypothetical observation that could falsify it. Please, be the first to explain it to me: state an event that, if observed, would prove that Intelligent Design is false.
I can see, for example, that derivation of all physical constants from
basic parameters like the number 4 ( being dimensionality of our space-time )
would somewhat undermine proponents of ID.
However, I still posit that at 0K it would be solid, since there should be zero molecular activity in that state.
You are making mistake assuming that there is such thing as 0K. The ground
energy level of any substance will never let you reach 0K. For some substances
like hydrogen that ground energy level is sufficient to maintain it in the
liquid state at standard atmospheric pressure. I don't remember if hydrogen
would actually turn into solid under increased pressure. Would someone tell
us here if it does turn into solid.
So, if you move faster than light, the beta factor becomes imaginary... Unless, of course, you are willing to accept the existence of "imaginary time."
What we have here is unfortunate use of word "imaginary". When some value becomes imaginary it does not mean as in "fairy tale".
Imaginary roots of quadratic equation are no more "imaginary" than so called real ones. Same with regards to the beta constant.
The point is that we don't know what happens when something is traveling past the light speed, some argue though that since we cannot
make any sense from our equations in FTL domain it means that FTL is not possible. Personally I don't think Special and especially General theory of relativity are tested well enough to interpolate their use into
domain of black holes, large distances or very long periods of time (pointing at Big Band theory and speculations about the end of
the Universe) and arguments that if we throw these theories away we won't have much to say about variety of subjects and therefore
we must stick to them are not very compelling .
I guess what I was mainly saying was I don't think the actual flight that wins the XPrize will be much more significant in a historical context than the one that already took place. They are both certainly small pudding compared to what is to come though.
I was not trying to downplay what this guys are doing, just point out to what you just said, that what is left out is much much harder than what they did
up until now. I wish them good luck and hope they can make it at some point in the future to the orbit, but I don't hold my breath yet.
I mean, the winning of the X Prize will certainly be a significant event in the privatization of access to space, but the first private flight already took place, which is very significant in itself.
I don't think the history was made. When private space flight will
orbit the Earth then it will indeed be a historical even, but for now it is not. Remember however that difficulties to get to the orbit will grow exponentially.
Sadly true. The most fiscally responsible budgets we've had recently came about due to gridlock between Clinton and the Republican Congress.
You just listed one of the major reasons why IMO people should vote for Kerry. These people should be gridlocked,
then and only then there is at least some resemblance of debate. Right now Republicans control House, Senate and
White House and that is bad for them as well, again because there is not much of debate. And as far as Kerry's
"utter cluelessness on defense." it is much of debatable issue and I am sure others would fill us here on this point.
Great. Another taxpayer funded pyramid scheme. Another way for you and I to subsidize some businessman that we've never met who happens to have a lobbying buddy in Washington.
Doesn't sound like socialism, which people tend to decry here in US and yet will gladly take money from the government.
Look at Halliburton for example is that really a private company or socialist paradise for executives?
You are under the naive delusion (common of geeks and kids) that there is a crisp and objective "correct answer" to everything, and that knowing the correct answer will solve anything.
Agreed and let me add to this one saying I heard somewhere: "There is no truth, there are only stories"
In non-government schools, kids are there first and foremost because their parents care enough about education to spare the money for it.
Not only that. What we forget here is that there is no silver bullet. There always be kids who will do well coming from bad schools
and those who will do bad coming from good schools. Kids are not blank papers on which parent and society could write anything they
want. There is no such set of conditions which would always give you best results. I know it does not sound like programming, which
most of us do and which is much based on this idea that given the same initial conditions system will perform the same way, but life
is nothing like that. Given the same initial conditions different kids will do differently no matter what. The best we, parents and
future parents here, can do is to try to grow intelligent human beings, lets kids grow themselves not been shaped into mold of
our creation, which would fail anyway.
I was in Vienna, talking to a girl from Bosnia, and she asked, "St. Louis is close to Washington D.C., right?"
I sat and thought for a second, "It depends on what you mean by close, I guess." I had to explain to her that, in most places in the United States, it takes more than a few hours to get out of the country.
It reminded me one funny story which happened to me. Been of Russian descent and my wife of Japanese we traveled across US by car
and upon completion of our journey I told here: "It is amazing how US is so diverse for such a small country". On which she
replied that "Only Russian person could say that".:)
It is true what grand parent said, looking at milky way in full its glory is truly religious experience.
I personally saw it only once in Siberia, where I came from. Still, we had to go very far from the city
to see it, plus you need the weather conditions just right. I wish anyone could see our galaxy at least once
in a lifetime.
1. There are *some* screeners with sensibility about them, but they are seemingly outnumbered by a collection of morons who seem to enjoy causing people pain and discomfort. I've seen it too many times. God help the screener who doesn't follow the rules when I go to the airport because I'll cause them a world of problems.
Welcome to the world of oppressive governments. The biggest impression
I brought from Russia (Soviet or what they have there now) is that
government workers want to hurt you. And most of the people there still
work for government.
Spoken like someone who probably drives a Citroen! Le Loser.
Nooo. A horse buggy!
Re:Ah the French...
on
Vive La Loafing!
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
>>US citizens have higher disposable income than EU citizens because US citizens work 40% more hours
>So, Americans are more successful after all.
Perhaps when you turn forty and get tired of working your butt off you will realize that there more to success than having more disposable income than your neighbor, who can actually spend some time with kids and perhaps teach them something worthwhile.
Isn't it kind of the Chinese government to subsidize US consumers this way? What you are basically saying is that everytime I chip in $40 for a DVD player, the Chinese government chips in between $40 and $120 towards the cost of that DVD player.
How is this a bad thing again?
Because soon you won't have any job to buy that super cheap DVD player.
Instead of farming, people in rural areas may drive several miles every day to a high-tech job. If they couldn't do that, they'd be farmers, or something else which doesn't require living in a city.
That is not true. After all there is only that many farmers needed.
Indeed if not for availability of cars and highways, economic circumstances
would force most of the people to move to cities. However I understand
very much desires of those who do not want to move to a city. Just like
them I want to have my own house and not an apartment. And besides
I have to be able to afford it.
Slashdot Mirror
warping of space time (both proven with physical tests, by the way)
You cannot prove that. What's been proven here is that results of experiment matched with theoretical predictions which based on wrapping of space-time. What you have to understand is that other theories could possibly predict that too. MOND for example could explain some chunk of General Relativity and before we dismiss these other theories I'd like to point to Newtonian Dynamics. Despite of been technically wrong we still use it and build upon it. What would prevent us from discarding General Relativity and building on (expanding) MOND. So, basically, what I am trying to say here is that wrong equations may give correct answers.
Could you explain how this could possibly have any bearing on ID?
Well, consistent derivation of all of science from basic principals would make case of proponents of ID more difficult because as of now they rely in part on a messy state of affairs in modern physics like current inability to reconcile General relativity with Quantum Mechanics, existence of plethora of cosmological theories etc. In other words there are too many holes in modern science which leave a lot of possibilities for one to insist on divine intervention. Consistent theory would eliminate much of it making work of ID proponents harder.
It is sad, really, that some people believe that science and religion are mutually exclusive. I think the problem stems from the belief that science has something to say about religion, and religion has something to say about science.
It is true that science and religion are not mutually exclusive. However you are wrong that they do not have common subject to talk about. When you work, let say on corrosion of metals you indeed hardly intrude into domain of religion but whenever you talk about origin of the Universe you basically over-step scientific domain therein lies the problem.
So why are the people pushing it almost universally fundamentalist Christians who hold to a literal Biblical interpretation?
Because it would potentially farther their agenda of "proving" existence of God. However we should judge any proposition on its own merit and not on whom it is associated with.
Your religious bias is showing.
That is not valid against any proposition. Religious people are perfectly cable making use or Reason and should not be dismissed purely on their bias.
If it is valid, then there is a hypothetical observation that could falsify it. Please, be the first to explain it to me: state an event that, if observed, would prove that Intelligent Design is false.
I can see, for example, that derivation of all physical constants from basic parameters like the number 4 ( being dimensionality of our space-time ) would somewhat undermine proponents of ID.
However, I still posit that at 0K it would be solid, since there should be zero molecular activity in that state.
You are making mistake assuming that there is such thing as 0K. The ground energy level of any substance will never let you reach 0K. For some substances like hydrogen that ground energy level is sufficient to maintain it in the liquid state at standard atmospheric pressure. I don't remember if hydrogen would actually turn into solid under increased pressure. Would someone tell us here if it does turn into solid.
Your bud, god@heaven.com
.com domain. I can see that even god in it for money.
So, if you move faster than light, the beta factor becomes imaginary...
Unless, of course, you are willing to accept the existence of "imaginary time."
What we have here is unfortunate use of word "imaginary". When some value becomes imaginary it does not mean as in "fairy tale". Imaginary roots of quadratic equation are no more "imaginary" than so called real ones. Same with regards to the beta constant. The point is that we don't know what happens when something is traveling past the light speed, some argue though that since we cannot make any sense from our equations in FTL domain it means that FTL is not possible. Personally I don't think Special and especially General theory of relativity are tested well enough to interpolate their use into domain of black holes, large distances or very long periods of time (pointing at Big Band theory and speculations about the end of the Universe) and arguments that if we throw these theories away we won't have much to say about variety of subjects and therefore we must stick to them are not very compelling .
Personally, I think time travel is incompatible with our current understanding of cosmology.
Which is not to say that our understanding is correct or written in stone.
I guess what I was mainly saying was I don't think the actual flight that wins the XPrize will be much more significant in a historical context than the one that already took place. They are both certainly small pudding compared to what is to come though.
I was not trying to downplay what this guys are doing, just point out to what you just said, that what is left out is much much harder than what they did up until now. I wish them good luck and hope they can make it at some point in the future to the orbit, but I don't hold my breath yet.
I mean, the winning of the X Prize will certainly be a significant event in the privatization of access to space, but the first private flight already took place, which is very significant in itself.
I don't think the history was made. When private space flight will orbit the Earth then it will indeed be a historical even, but for now it is not. Remember however that difficulties to get to the orbit will grow exponentially.
Sadly true. The most fiscally responsible budgets we've had recently came about due to gridlock between Clinton and the Republican Congress.
You just listed one of the major reasons why IMO people should vote for Kerry. These people should be gridlocked, then and only then there is at least some resemblance of debate. Right now Republicans control House, Senate and White House and that is bad for them as well, again because there is not much of debate. And as far as Kerry's "utter cluelessness on defense." it is much of debatable issue and I am sure others would fill us here on this point.
Great. Another taxpayer funded pyramid scheme. Another way for you and I to subsidize some businessman that we've never met who happens to have a lobbying buddy in Washington.
Doesn't sound like socialism, which people tend to decry here in US and yet will gladly take money from the government. Look at Halliburton for example is that really a private company or socialist paradise for executives?
You are under the naive delusion (common of geeks and kids) that there is a crisp and objective "correct answer" to everything, and that knowing the correct answer will solve anything.
Agreed and let me add to this one saying I heard somewhere: "There is no truth, there are only stories"
In non-government schools, kids are there first and foremost because their parents care enough about education to spare the money for it.
Not only that. What we forget here is that there is no silver bullet. There always be kids who will do well coming from bad schools and those who will do bad coming from good schools. Kids are not blank papers on which parent and society could write anything they want. There is no such set of conditions which would always give you best results. I know it does not sound like programming, which most of us do and which is much based on this idea that given the same initial conditions system will perform the same way, but life is nothing like that. Given the same initial conditions different kids will do differently no matter what. The best we, parents and future parents here, can do is to try to grow intelligent human beings, lets kids grow themselves not been shaped into mold of our creation, which would fail anyway.
I was in Vienna, talking to a girl from Bosnia, and she asked, "St. Louis is close to Washington D.C., right?"
:)
I sat and thought for a second, "It depends on what you mean by close, I guess." I had to explain to her that, in most places in the United States, it takes more than a few hours to get out of the country.
It reminded me one funny story which happened to me. Been of Russian descent and my wife of Japanese we traveled across US by car and upon completion of our journey I told here: "It is amazing how US is so diverse for such a small country". On which she replied that "Only Russian person could say that".
EvDO provider support would be a major boon as well.
What's EvDO? Does it stand for "EVIL DO"?
It must be glorious to see it from Africa.
It is true what grand parent said, looking at milky way in full its glory is truly religious experience. I personally saw it only once in Siberia, where I came from. Still, we had to go very far from the city to see it, plus you need the weather conditions just right. I wish anyone could see our galaxy at least once in a lifetime.
1. There are *some* screeners with sensibility about them, but they are seemingly outnumbered by a collection of morons who seem to enjoy causing people pain and discomfort. I've seen it too many times. God help the screener who doesn't follow the rules when I go to the airport because I'll cause them a world of problems.
Welcome to the world of oppressive governments. The biggest impression I brought from Russia (Soviet or what they have there now) is that government workers want to hurt you. And most of the people there still work for government.
I mean, fission reactors of modern times are much better than their ancestors. in japan...
However if you read that article you will see that accident they mention has nothing with anything nuclear.
So you can't throw yourself off a tall building?
;)
I don't think I can. However you are welcome to prove me wrong
We could be more "successful" (if your definition of success is having more money) here in Europe if we wanted to just by working more.
Saying that "I could do something, but I don't want to do it" is just a different way of saying that "I can't".
Spoken like someone who probably drives a Citroen! Le Loser.
Nooo. A horse buggy!
>>US citizens have higher disposable income than EU citizens because US citizens work 40% more hours
>So, Americans are more successful after all.
Perhaps when you turn forty and get tired of working your butt off you will realize that there more to success than having more disposable income than your neighbor, who can actually spend some time with kids and perhaps teach them something worthwhile.
Isn't it kind of the Chinese government to subsidize US consumers this way? What you are basically saying is that everytime I chip in $40 for a DVD player, the Chinese government chips in between $40 and $120 towards the cost of that DVD player.
How is this a bad thing again?
Because soon you won't have any job to buy that super cheap DVD player.
Instead of farming, people in rural areas may drive several miles every day to a high-tech job. If they couldn't do that, they'd be farmers, or something else which doesn't require living in a city.
That is not true. After all there is only that many farmers needed. Indeed if not for availability of cars and highways, economic circumstances would force most of the people to move to cities. However I understand very much desires of those who do not want to move to a city. Just like them I want to have my own house and not an apartment. And besides I have to be able to afford it.