You can find some logo implementations online. And when he's tired of drawing things with it, move him on to something like Pascal or even Python. And if he's more into the visual stuff, throw C# at him. He'll have working applications in a few hours that can do more than the super basic stuff and there's tons of videos out there to teach him how to do even more.
It'll give him a chance to show his friends something he did. If the games he's playing have APIs, maybe he can throw together something to utilize those APIs to do something that helps him and his friends with whatever game they're into. Eve Online makes a ton of information available security via their API and I know WoW has all sorts of third-party add-ons.
In other words, link coding to what he already enjoys and show him how coding can be useful for doing what he already does, but faster and more efficiently.
They're approved within a very basic set of standards. It can't explode on impact, it has to fit in a road lane, and in some cases it has to have a certain level of fuel efficiency. I actually don't agree with the last one, but the other two I can live with. What the gp was essentially advocating was an East German system wherein everyone gets to buy a Trabant.
I was simply saying "no thanks" with a thinly veiled movie reference. The whole central planning thing just never seems to work very well.
The parent was modded a troll because the comment is a troll.
The car didn't die "due to libertarians". The car died because it cost too much, drove too slow, and was determined by apparently every car manufacturer in the world to be roughly the equivalent of the Nissan Shitbox.
What has happened is that as manufacturers have found ways to squeeze more power out of their engines, some of that power has been siphoned off to haul around the kinds of safety features this car had. A lot of these kinds of features went into the high-end, super expensive cars much earlier than mainstream vehicles because when you add $3,000 to a $70,000 car, it stings a lot less than when you add it to a $9,000 car. When the cost of safety feature X went from the $3k cost at inception to a mature product's cost of $300, it found its way into that $9,000 car.
The only conspiracy here is the conspiracy of consumers who want bigger, faster, and more powerful 90% of the time. When times are tough, some of them start to value efficiency. When you look at most of the market (especially the market 20 and 30 years ago), safety doesn't generally rank very high. It's more of an "oh look, it even got 4 stars on some safety thing, that's cool too!". People seem to forget that Toyota only managed to get the Prius R&D'd with the huge profits coming from their trucks. They correctly realized that fuel efficiency actually does pop up on the radar every so often and so they didn't sink every dime they had into making bigger and more badass looking trucks like certain other manufacturers. And even then, if Toyota had been pushing the 2010 Prius in 1980 or 1990 instead of the vehicles they had at the time, they'd be just another footnote in the history of failed vehicle manufacturers.
Each kind of car has its own time and this car was a solid 30 years too early. It does nobody any good if nobody can mass produce it without going bankrupt. It's easy to look back now and say "you people were stupid for not buying them like crazy", but people in 2030 will be looking back at us saying the same thing about something we, today, consider ridiculous.
Because if everyone drove a small and light car with a smaller, more fuel efficient engine, we would have less fatalities and much less fuel consumption nationwide. We could also save an immense amount of money on replacing infrastructure, since hauling around 4,000 lb SUVs to get a single person from one place to another has more externalities than just the waste of metal and oil resources. Not to mention the increased danger to other, smaller vehicles.
Damn, if only the government could force everyone to buy the same kind of government-approved car, wouldn't that be great? Better yet, maybe it could just construct all housing in a handfull of mega-cities to achieve economies of scale and ban cars outright in favor of mass transportation. Well, except for cops of course. But you know what else would save a lot of time, effort, and money via efficiency? If the cops could just judge law-breakers on the spot. And we could just call them judges for short. And as long as nobody unlocks the files for the Janus Project, everything will just be groovy.
Tesla has had all-electric vehicles in production and on the road for years with a 244-mile estimated range. The first group were high-end sports cars selling for >$110,000. This next group will sell for half that and get even higher mileage. The Model-S is also supposed to have an option (or possibly standard option since it isn't finalized for production) 5-minute battery change. So you drive 300 miles, swap the battery in 5 mins at a service station, go another 300 miles. And how often are you going 300 miles in a day anyway? The Model-S is scheduled to be in production next year. For now, they've been showing off working, drivable prototypes for several months. There's even Youtube videos from the inside showing the functional 17" touchscreen dash that holds all user controls.
So yes, while most electric vehicles have either been vaporware or crap, Tesla actually seems to be the real deal. Their next generation is targetting a ~$30,000 price point for an all-electric with similar range to the Model-S, but you'll have to wait a couple years for that. At least there's hope that somebody is actually doing the all-electric thing right.
If you care about getting those bugs fixed, start an organized effort among the alliances to get CSM candidates to pledge to bring up the list of bugs to CCP. If CCP is giving the CSM folks as much access and development influence as is claimed, they should be able to focus in on getting the list of bugs handled pretty quickly.
One thing that should happen (and I don't know if it does or not) is that minutes of any communication between the CSM and CCP should be made public. Simply strip any critically sensitive details out while leaving in the overall content so that people know if the CSM is actually doing things that the people want done. And if they aren't, the solution isn't to sit on your hands in an organized fashion, but to vote in people who will press important issues in an organized fashion.
Sounds like there's a few hundred people sitting around collectively bitching about the existence of the CSM and the lack of bug fixes instead of using the CSM to get the bugfixes.
1) Continue drilling and have an accident every few decades 2) Switch to wind/solar with all-electric vehicles immediately and pay about 5000% of world GDP in the next 10 years doing it and 3 - 5x current energy prices thereafter 3) Switch to an all-Amish life 4) Work on a gradual transition to cleaner and more sustainable energy sources by continuing to utilize what we have and what works while developing new stuff that actually works
You seem to be advocating options 2 or 3. Some people seem to be in favor of option 1. The only option that makes any sense at all to me is number 4. That requires that we drill for a while longer to continue supplying ourselves with the energy we need today while we develop better sources for the energy we'll need tomorrow. This spill, while terrible and unfortunate, is nothing compared to the havoc and destruction that will be wrought by either inaction or wrecklessly rushed actions on the part of humanity trying to fill its ever-growing thirst for energy.
That the largest economy and energy consuming nation in the world is even considering allowing its entire energy policy to hinge on a single accident is sheer lunacy. The only sane path is a slow, deliberate one dictated by need and reason alone.
If you were a cop and actually did that, I'd be a millionaire and you'd be in jail. Try reading the law prior to commenting on it because you obviously haven't read it or haven't understood it at all.
There is no requirement in this law that citizens carry any sort of identification for identifying citizenship.
However, if you have no such identification on you and you are reasonably suspected of being in the country illegally by Arizona law enforcement AFTER the police have already stopped, detained, or arrested you FOR SOMETHING ELSE, THEN you may want to produce evidence that you're in the country legally or provide verifiable information to support that [u]if you want[/u] to avoid lengthy investigations into your legal status.
This is no different from existing Federal law except that Arizona's law provides substantially stonger protections for citizens and legal immigrants. The moment you provide any government issued ID which had a legal residency check as a prerequisite of issuance, your legal status under the Arizona law is no longer in question. Under existing Federal law, your driver's license or birth certificate can be used as toilet paper by ICE if they don't believe you.
You may view detention as punishment, but the law does not.
You are not being detained for being naughty and need to learn your lesson; you're being detained so you can't run away while the police verify information you've provided to them or while they investigate reasonable suspicions of wrongdoing. The alternative is for the police to simply release anyone who says "I'm a citizen!" without any proof whatsoever while they go back to the station to find out whether the guy they just set free was an illegal immigrant who just broke out of prison and is on their way to murder the cop that testified against them at trial.
If you're a citizen? No, but you could potentially be detained while your citizenship is confirmed. Not arrested, but detained. It's an inconvenience you can choose to avoid by supplying appropriate confirmation of identity, but the law does not require you to do so. You can walk around all day with no ID on you whatsoever, but if you're stopped on suspicion of wrongdoing and your identity cannot be immediately confirmed, you're in for a bit of waiting and inconvenience, especially if you decide not to cooperate in simply confirming your identity.
If you're a non-citizen? Of course, because you're in violation of Federal law.
Arizona's law has vastly more protection in place to prevent citizens and legal aliens from being hassled. It has so much protection in place that plenty of illegals will have no trouble skating right through it too. That's fine with me as I'd rather Arizona law enforcement err on the side of caution when it comes to potentially hassling citizens or legal aliens.
So when you ask how well I think Arizona police will do as compared with Federal ICE agents, I have to say that depends a lot on training. The Arizona law gives a whole lot LESS latitude to their police than Federal law gives to ICE agents. ICE agents operating within 100 miles of the border can pretty much detain who they want for however long they want regardless of what kind of evidence you provide them of your right to be in this country. Arizona police are heavily restricted in that regard by the fact that a simple government issued ID shuts down the whole immigration question for them by law.
For the purposes of the Arizona law, a driver's license works just fine so long as the issuing state isn't handing them out to illegals. Maybe you'd prefer to read the text of the law itself before spreading yet more misinformation?
Firstly, without even knowing how many illegals are in the country or what 95% of them are actually doing in terms of taxes and use of social services, I doubt the usefulness of any supposed "study". The best estimates are that between 12 and 20 million illegals are in the country illegally. That's a huge gap from low to high and that's the best job we can do estimating. If someone's trying to tell me they know exactly what's being contributed by and taken by a group whose numbers can't even remotely be determined, I can't help but think they're confused.
Secondly, illegals all commit crimes by definition. The act of crossing into the United States without permission is a violation of United States sovereignty and an affront to our entire legal system. Beyond those crimes are plenty of others they commit. Again, percentages and ratios are absurd here given that we don't even have a basic understanding of the total number. What we do know is that our citizens are being raped, kidnapped, and murdered in ever increasing numbers by people who should not even be here in the first place. We don't know which of them are otherwise good and decent people and which ones are violent psychopaths. Why? Because they chose to skip past the normal immigration system that would sort out known violent criminals.
Thirdly, illegals drive down wages in every industry they become largely involved with. They not only take jobs away from citizens and other legal residents, but for those who manage to keep their job in that particular field, wages and benefits will drop when there are a dozen illegals waiting at the door to do the job at below minimum wage and without any benefits.
It's a 21st century slave trade where the slaves actually have to compete for the opportunity to work. What'd we learn in 150 years? That if you fire the handlers, you can split their wages among your new slaves and they'll work harder for them. Better yet, if you have an economically depressed population living nearby who are able to walk, swim, or boat their way to you, you don't even have to go fetch them at slave auctions or pay for their travel. The slaves will actually show up right at your door!
Man, we've gotten a lot smarter about how to get labor intensive work done cheap!
As I said many times previously, there is no legal requirement in Arizona or elsewhere for US citizens to carry any identification with them so long as they aren't engaged in some activity that requires licensing (like driving). Period. End of story.
Now, if you're stopped by police in Arizona or ICE anywhere, and they suspect that you're an illegal immigrant, showing valid government-issued ID is the quickest way to end suspicion and get on with your day (especially in the case of Arizona police operating under the new law - ICE has a lot more latitude to put you under the microscope). If you don't mind providing some information to help verify that you're a citizen in the event that law enforcement stop you and ask for it, you're free to do so. If you don't mind spending a lot of time detained while your citizenship is gradually discovered by painstaking investigation, simply provide your name to law enforcement and refuse to say another word. You have every right to do so.
My advice is simply to avoid the potential hassle. My sense is that virtually no one in Arizona legally will see any significant hassle as a result of this law. The exemptions are just too large (letting plenty of illegals slip by too in the interest of not bugging regular folks). If you want major problems, try traveling within 100 miles of the US border (any border) while exclusively speaking a non-English language. Let us all know how nice the local ICE office is from the inside once they finally let you go.
What I'm trying to say here is that existing Federal law is a Hell of a lot harsher than this Arizona law, especially when it comes to treatment of citizens and legal aliens. I would like to see additional protections added to Federal law for citizens and legal aliens similar to those seen in the Arizona law. Arizona went out of its way to protect regular law-abiding folks from hassle with this law.
Nope, you just get detained until they find your paperwork. Which is actually worse than being fined. At least you can contest a fine in court.
If you can't or won't provide information that identifies you as a citizen of the United States to the police and you have no valid government issued ID on you, you may be detained until your identity can be confirmed. That's just common sense. If you don't want to deal with that inconvenience, either keep a valid government ID with you or be willing to provide identifying information which can be used to verify your citizenship.
Does it require US citizens to carry their paperwork with them under threat of detention?
No, and neither does the Arizona law. However, in BOTH cases, if you're reasonably suspected of being in the country illegally and have no ID to show otherwise, you can most certainly be detained. In fact, Federal law enforcement can ignore IDs if they still don't believe you. The Arizona law grants special protection to those who have valid government IDs when said ID has a legal residency requirement attached to its issuance. If you're going to be questioned by someone in Arizona after this law takes effect, you best hope it's Arizona police operating under the new law. With them, you whip out that driver's license and they go away. With ICE, you could have your license, Social Security card, and even a birth certificate on hand and they can STILL drag you in until you can convince them that you aren't an illegal so long as you're within 100 miles of the border.
If anything, you should be arguing for the Feds to adopt the Arizona law's protections. Arizona's legislature went out of its way to correct potential abuses brought to light by ICE. Arizona's law is not intended to target citizens or legal residents and it shows that by creating a huge exemption from suspicion for anyone with valid government issued ID. Illegals who want to avoid problems could potentially get forged IDs. Arizona law enforcement won't be able to put them under the microscope unless they have reason to believe the ID is forged. ICE can simply drag them in and sort it out on their own time.
I was originally quoting from the Arizona House's version of the bill, apparently. The Senate version merely adds the requirement that said ID include a check on your lawful presence in the US. In other words, unless your state hands out driver's licenses and non-driver IDs to illegal aliens, your license of non-driver ID works fine for the Arizona law. It most certainly is clear that "state" means any US state. It clearly says, "any valid United States... state... issued identification". If your state is part of the United States, it's included. Further, it even applies to local governments. So if your local township or municipality issues some kind of ID which includes a legal residency requirement, that also works.
It's pretty wide open and generous compared to the Federal law of the same subject.
I'm sure there are plenty more. The most important thing for Arizona to do in order to avoid problems enforcing this law is to give proper training to law enforcement on how best to implement it. I certainly don't want Arizona law enforcement spending all day going on fishing expeditions with everyone who doesn't "look right". It wastes their time and just gives illegals and other criminals more opportunity to go deeper underground. And as much as I support the removal of every last illegal alien from the entire United States, I'd really rather see law enforcement err strongly on the side of caution rather than having them running around constantly hassling citizens and legal aliens.
My sense is that the purpose of this is primarily to scare illegals and those who might hire them into getting out of Arizona. Secondarily, I think it's to allow local and state law enforcement to take action when they've got someone in custody (ie. someone they observed actually doing something else wrong which was totally unrelated to immigration) who they know is an illegal because he doesn't speak a word of English, has not one shred of identification on him, took off as soon as he saw the police uniforms, who's obviously scared, and who doesn't even bother claiming they're a citizen or legal resident. What's more, prior to this law, if they had someone in custody who outright admitted to being in the country illegally, the only thing they could do was turn that person over to ICE. ICE, in turn, could simply choose to hand them a court date and set them free (to then disappear for another 2 years).
ANY form of government-issued ID (from any local or state government OR the Federal government) which checks legal residency as part of getting it exempts you from further checks to your immigration status under the new Arizona law. It doesn't have to "prove" that you're a citizen or here legally; it merely has to satisfy the law. The law is satisfied when you show any government issued ID where legal residency was a requirement of issuance.
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You can find some logo implementations online. And when he's tired of drawing things with it, move him on to something like Pascal or even Python. And if he's more into the visual stuff, throw C# at him. He'll have working applications in a few hours that can do more than the super basic stuff and there's tons of videos out there to teach him how to do even more.
It'll give him a chance to show his friends something he did. If the games he's playing have APIs, maybe he can throw together something to utilize those APIs to do something that helps him and his friends with whatever game they're into. Eve Online makes a ton of information available security via their API and I know WoW has all sorts of third-party add-ons.
In other words, link coding to what he already enjoys and show him how coding can be useful for doing what he already does, but faster and more efficiently.
They're approved within a very basic set of standards. It can't explode on impact, it has to fit in a road lane, and in some cases it has to have a certain level of fuel efficiency. I actually don't agree with the last one, but the other two I can live with. What the gp was essentially advocating was an East German system wherein everyone gets to buy a Trabant.
I was simply saying "no thanks" with a thinly veiled movie reference. The whole central planning thing just never seems to work very well.
The parent was modded a troll because the comment is a troll.
The car didn't die "due to libertarians". The car died because it cost too much, drove too slow, and was determined by apparently every car manufacturer in the world to be roughly the equivalent of the Nissan Shitbox.
What has happened is that as manufacturers have found ways to squeeze more power out of their engines, some of that power has been siphoned off to haul around the kinds of safety features this car had. A lot of these kinds of features went into the high-end, super expensive cars much earlier than mainstream vehicles because when you add $3,000 to a $70,000 car, it stings a lot less than when you add it to a $9,000 car. When the cost of safety feature X went from the $3k cost at inception to a mature product's cost of $300, it found its way into that $9,000 car.
The only conspiracy here is the conspiracy of consumers who want bigger, faster, and more powerful 90% of the time. When times are tough, some of them start to value efficiency. When you look at most of the market (especially the market 20 and 30 years ago), safety doesn't generally rank very high. It's more of an "oh look, it even got 4 stars on some safety thing, that's cool too!". People seem to forget that Toyota only managed to get the Prius R&D'd with the huge profits coming from their trucks. They correctly realized that fuel efficiency actually does pop up on the radar every so often and so they didn't sink every dime they had into making bigger and more badass looking trucks like certain other manufacturers. And even then, if Toyota had been pushing the 2010 Prius in 1980 or 1990 instead of the vehicles they had at the time, they'd be just another footnote in the history of failed vehicle manufacturers.
Each kind of car has its own time and this car was a solid 30 years too early. It does nobody any good if nobody can mass produce it without going bankrupt. It's easy to look back now and say "you people were stupid for not buying them like crazy", but people in 2030 will be looking back at us saying the same thing about something we, today, consider ridiculous.
Because if everyone drove a small and light car with a smaller, more fuel efficient engine, we would have less fatalities and much less fuel consumption nationwide. We could also save an immense amount of money on replacing infrastructure, since hauling around 4,000 lb SUVs to get a single person from one place to another has more externalities than just the waste of metal and oil resources. Not to mention the increased danger to other, smaller vehicles.
Damn, if only the government could force everyone to buy the same kind of government-approved car, wouldn't that be great? Better yet, maybe it could just construct all housing in a handfull of mega-cities to achieve economies of scale and ban cars outright in favor of mass transportation. Well, except for cops of course. But you know what else would save a lot of time, effort, and money via efficiency? If the cops could just judge law-breakers on the spot. And we could just call them judges for short. And as long as nobody unlocks the files for the Janus Project, everything will just be groovy.
He said an oven, not a nuclear fusion core.
... because we polished it with the tears of our dead workers' families.
Tesla has had all-electric vehicles in production and on the road for years with a 244-mile estimated range. The first group were high-end sports cars selling for >$110,000. This next group will sell for half that and get even higher mileage. The Model-S is also supposed to have an option (or possibly standard option since it isn't finalized for production) 5-minute battery change. So you drive 300 miles, swap the battery in 5 mins at a service station, go another 300 miles. And how often are you going 300 miles in a day anyway? The Model-S is scheduled to be in production next year. For now, they've been showing off working, drivable prototypes for several months. There's even Youtube videos from the inside showing the functional 17" touchscreen dash that holds all user controls.
So yes, while most electric vehicles have either been vaporware or crap, Tesla actually seems to be the real deal. Their next generation is targetting a ~$30,000 price point for an all-electric with similar range to the Model-S, but you'll have to wait a couple years for that. At least there's hope that somebody is actually doing the all-electric thing right.
If you care about getting those bugs fixed, start an organized effort among the alliances to get CSM candidates to pledge to bring up the list of bugs to CCP. If CCP is giving the CSM folks as much access and development influence as is claimed, they should be able to focus in on getting the list of bugs handled pretty quickly.
One thing that should happen (and I don't know if it does or not) is that minutes of any communication between the CSM and CCP should be made public. Simply strip any critically sensitive details out while leaving in the overall content so that people know if the CSM is actually doing things that the people want done. And if they aren't, the solution isn't to sit on your hands in an organized fashion, but to vote in people who will press important issues in an organized fashion.
Sounds like there's a few hundred people sitting around collectively bitching about the existence of the CSM and the lack of bug fixes instead of using the CSM to get the bugfixes.
"Professor! Professor! There's a nuclear missile coming straight at us! Should we launch some SM-3 interceptors to try and shoot it down?"
"Na, we'd only have a 10 - 20 percent chance of them actually working."
"..."
So how do you enjoy working at the 1&1 datacenter in Kansas?
Our options are as follows:
1) Continue drilling and have an accident every few decades
2) Switch to wind/solar with all-electric vehicles immediately and pay about 5000% of world GDP in the next 10 years doing it and 3 - 5x current energy prices thereafter
3) Switch to an all-Amish life
4) Work on a gradual transition to cleaner and more sustainable energy sources by continuing to utilize what we have and what works while developing new stuff that actually works
You seem to be advocating options 2 or 3. Some people seem to be in favor of option 1. The only option that makes any sense at all to me is number 4. That requires that we drill for a while longer to continue supplying ourselves with the energy we need today while we develop better sources for the energy we'll need tomorrow. This spill, while terrible and unfortunate, is nothing compared to the havoc and destruction that will be wrought by either inaction or wrecklessly rushed actions on the part of humanity trying to fill its ever-growing thirst for energy.
That the largest economy and energy consuming nation in the world is even considering allowing its entire energy policy to hinge on a single accident is sheer lunacy. The only sane path is a slow, deliberate one dictated by need and reason alone.
If you were a cop and actually did that, I'd be a millionaire and you'd be in jail. Try reading the law prior to commenting on it because you obviously haven't read it or haven't understood it at all.
There is no requirement in this law that citizens carry any sort of identification for identifying citizenship.
However, if you have no such identification on you and you are reasonably suspected of being in the country illegally by Arizona law enforcement AFTER the police have already stopped, detained, or arrested you FOR SOMETHING ELSE, THEN you may want to produce evidence that you're in the country legally or provide verifiable information to support that [u]if you want[/u] to avoid lengthy investigations into your legal status.
This is no different from existing Federal law except that Arizona's law provides substantially stonger protections for citizens and legal immigrants. The moment you provide any government issued ID which had a legal residency check as a prerequisite of issuance, your legal status under the Arizona law is no longer in question. Under existing Federal law, your driver's license or birth certificate can be used as toilet paper by ICE if they don't believe you.
Your outrage is misplaced.
You may view detention as punishment, but the law does not.
You are not being detained for being naughty and need to learn your lesson; you're being detained so you can't run away while the police verify information you've provided to them or while they investigate reasonable suspicions of wrongdoing. The alternative is for the police to simply release anyone who says "I'm a citizen!" without any proof whatsoever while they go back to the station to find out whether the guy they just set free was an illegal immigrant who just broke out of prison and is on their way to murder the cop that testified against them at trial.
If you're a citizen? No, but you could potentially be detained while your citizenship is confirmed. Not arrested, but detained. It's an inconvenience you can choose to avoid by supplying appropriate confirmation of identity, but the law does not require you to do so. You can walk around all day with no ID on you whatsoever, but if you're stopped on suspicion of wrongdoing and your identity cannot be immediately confirmed, you're in for a bit of waiting and inconvenience, especially if you decide not to cooperate in simply confirming your identity.
If you're a non-citizen? Of course, because you're in violation of Federal law.
If you're a citizen, this law does not require that you show ID. Back to the drawing board.
Arizona's law has vastly more protection in place to prevent citizens and legal aliens from being hassled. It has so much protection in place that plenty of illegals will have no trouble skating right through it too. That's fine with me as I'd rather Arizona law enforcement err on the side of caution when it comes to potentially hassling citizens or legal aliens.
So when you ask how well I think Arizona police will do as compared with Federal ICE agents, I have to say that depends a lot on training. The Arizona law gives a whole lot LESS latitude to their police than Federal law gives to ICE agents. ICE agents operating within 100 miles of the border can pretty much detain who they want for however long they want regardless of what kind of evidence you provide them of your right to be in this country. Arizona police are heavily restricted in that regard by the fact that a simple government issued ID shuts down the whole immigration question for them by law.
For the purposes of the Arizona law, a driver's license works just fine so long as the issuing state isn't handing them out to illegals. Maybe you'd prefer to read the text of the law itself before spreading yet more misinformation?
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf
Firstly, without even knowing how many illegals are in the country or what 95% of them are actually doing in terms of taxes and use of social services, I doubt the usefulness of any supposed "study". The best estimates are that between 12 and 20 million illegals are in the country illegally. That's a huge gap from low to high and that's the best job we can do estimating. If someone's trying to tell me they know exactly what's being contributed by and taken by a group whose numbers can't even remotely be determined, I can't help but think they're confused.
Secondly, illegals all commit crimes by definition. The act of crossing into the United States without permission is a violation of United States sovereignty and an affront to our entire legal system. Beyond those crimes are plenty of others they commit. Again, percentages and ratios are absurd here given that we don't even have a basic understanding of the total number. What we do know is that our citizens are being raped, kidnapped, and murdered in ever increasing numbers by people who should not even be here in the first place. We don't know which of them are otherwise good and decent people and which ones are violent psychopaths. Why? Because they chose to skip past the normal immigration system that would sort out known violent criminals.
Thirdly, illegals drive down wages in every industry they become largely involved with. They not only take jobs away from citizens and other legal residents, but for those who manage to keep their job in that particular field, wages and benefits will drop when there are a dozen illegals waiting at the door to do the job at below minimum wage and without any benefits.
It's a 21st century slave trade where the slaves actually have to compete for the opportunity to work. What'd we learn in 150 years? That if you fire the handlers, you can split their wages among your new slaves and they'll work harder for them. Better yet, if you have an economically depressed population living nearby who are able to walk, swim, or boat their way to you, you don't even have to go fetch them at slave auctions or pay for their travel. The slaves will actually show up right at your door!
Man, we've gotten a lot smarter about how to get labor intensive work done cheap!
As I said many times previously, there is no legal requirement in Arizona or elsewhere for US citizens to carry any identification with them so long as they aren't engaged in some activity that requires licensing (like driving). Period. End of story.
Now, if you're stopped by police in Arizona or ICE anywhere, and they suspect that you're an illegal immigrant, showing valid government-issued ID is the quickest way to end suspicion and get on with your day (especially in the case of Arizona police operating under the new law - ICE has a lot more latitude to put you under the microscope). If you don't mind providing some information to help verify that you're a citizen in the event that law enforcement stop you and ask for it, you're free to do so. If you don't mind spending a lot of time detained while your citizenship is gradually discovered by painstaking investigation, simply provide your name to law enforcement and refuse to say another word. You have every right to do so.
My advice is simply to avoid the potential hassle. My sense is that virtually no one in Arizona legally will see any significant hassle as a result of this law. The exemptions are just too large (letting plenty of illegals slip by too in the interest of not bugging regular folks). If you want major problems, try traveling within 100 miles of the US border (any border) while exclusively speaking a non-English language. Let us all know how nice the local ICE office is from the inside once they finally let you go.
What I'm trying to say here is that existing Federal law is a Hell of a lot harsher than this Arizona law, especially when it comes to treatment of citizens and legal aliens. I would like to see additional protections added to Federal law for citizens and legal aliens similar to those seen in the Arizona law. Arizona went out of its way to protect regular law-abiding folks from hassle with this law.
Nope, you just get detained until they find your paperwork. Which is actually worse than being fined. At least you can contest a fine in court.
If you can't or won't provide information that identifies you as a citizen of the United States to the police and you have no valid government issued ID on you, you may be detained until your identity can be confirmed. That's just common sense. If you don't want to deal with that inconvenience, either keep a valid government ID with you or be willing to provide identifying information which can be used to verify your citizenship.
Does it require US citizens to carry their paperwork with them under threat of detention?
No, and neither does the Arizona law. However, in BOTH cases, if you're reasonably suspected of being in the country illegally and have no ID to show otherwise, you can most certainly be detained. In fact, Federal law enforcement can ignore IDs if they still don't believe you. The Arizona law grants special protection to those who have valid government IDs when said ID has a legal residency requirement attached to its issuance. If you're going to be questioned by someone in Arizona after this law takes effect, you best hope it's Arizona police operating under the new law. With them, you whip out that driver's license and they go away. With ICE, you could have your license, Social Security card, and even a birth certificate on hand and they can STILL drag you in until you can convince them that you aren't an illegal so long as you're within 100 miles of the border.
If anything, you should be arguing for the Feds to adopt the Arizona law's protections. Arizona's legislature went out of its way to correct potential abuses brought to light by ICE. Arizona's law is not intended to target citizens or legal residents and it shows that by creating a huge exemption from suspicion for anyone with valid government issued ID. Illegals who want to avoid problems could potentially get forged IDs. Arizona law enforcement won't be able to put them under the microscope unless they have reason to believe the ID is forged. ICE can simply drag them in and sort it out on their own time.
I was originally quoting from the Arizona House's version of the bill, apparently. The Senate version merely adds the requirement that said ID include a check on your lawful presence in the US. In other words, unless your state hands out driver's licenses and non-driver IDs to illegal aliens, your license of non-driver ID works fine for the Arizona law. It most certainly is clear that "state" means any US state. It clearly says, "any valid United States ... state ... issued identification". If your state is part of the United States, it's included. Further, it even applies to local governments. So if your local township or municipality issues some kind of ID which includes a legal residency requirement, that also works.
It's pretty wide open and generous compared to the Federal law of the same subject.
I'm sure there are plenty more. The most important thing for Arizona to do in order to avoid problems enforcing this law is to give proper training to law enforcement on how best to implement it. I certainly don't want Arizona law enforcement spending all day going on fishing expeditions with everyone who doesn't "look right". It wastes their time and just gives illegals and other criminals more opportunity to go deeper underground. And as much as I support the removal of every last illegal alien from the entire United States, I'd really rather see law enforcement err strongly on the side of caution rather than having them running around constantly hassling citizens and legal aliens.
My sense is that the purpose of this is primarily to scare illegals and those who might hire them into getting out of Arizona. Secondarily, I think it's to allow local and state law enforcement to take action when they've got someone in custody (ie. someone they observed actually doing something else wrong which was totally unrelated to immigration) who they know is an illegal because he doesn't speak a word of English, has not one shred of identification on him, took off as soon as he saw the police uniforms, who's obviously scared, and who doesn't even bother claiming they're a citizen or legal resident. What's more, prior to this law, if they had someone in custody who outright admitted to being in the country illegally, the only thing they could do was turn that person over to ICE. ICE, in turn, could simply choose to hand them a court date and set them free (to then disappear for another 2 years).
You're incorrect. Please read the actual text of the law prior to further comments to avoid confusing others.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf
ANY form of government-issued ID (from any local or state government OR the Federal government) which checks legal residency as part of getting it exempts you from further checks to your immigration status under the new Arizona law. It doesn't have to "prove" that you're a citizen or here legally; it merely has to satisfy the law. The law is satisfied when you show any government issued ID where legal residency was a requirement of issuance.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf