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Arizona "Papers, Please" Law May Hit Tech Workers
dcblogs writes "H-1B workers and foreign students may think twice about attending school or working in Arizona as a result of the state's new immigration law. If a police officer has a 'reasonable suspicion' about the immigration status of someone, the officer may ask to see proof of legal status. Federal immigration law requires all non-US citizens, including H-1B workers, to carry documentation, but 'no state until Arizona has made it a crime to not have that paperwork on your person,' said immigration lawyer Sarah Hawk. It means that an H-1B holder risks detention every time they make a 7-11 run if they don't have their papers, or if their paperwork is out of date because US immigration authorities are behind in processing (which condition does not make them illegal). The potential tech backlash over the law may have begun yesterday with a call by San Francisco City Atty. Dennis Herrera 'to adopt and implement a sweeping boycott of the State of Arizona and Arizona-based businesses.'"
Whatever happened to "presumed innocent until proven guilty"?
Has anyone else noticed that laws seem to be slowly changing to produce a presumption of guilt (requiring a proof of innocence) these days?
And I think at least a few dozen of us aren't completely bat shit insane... I think...
No worries, they would only would only stop people if they have "reasonable" suspicion. As long as you make sure you appear reasonably white you'll be fine.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-april-26-2010/law---border
En libertad, como los pajarillos.
En libertad, que nadie me pregunte: a dónde vas?
you know how to defeat a bad law? Sue the bastards trying to enforce
Wie sagt man, ihre papiere bitte!
Coming to a municipality near you. Welcome to 2010. Age of the guilty until proven innocent, malicious until proven benign, privatized profits, socialized losses. And more ridiculous, pointless, noneducational, and downright fucktarded news stories perpetuating the mass media every day. Hatemongering, blatant flaming with red this blue that labels, and social backtracking. Man I can't wait for the future! What wonderful things will the world bring us next!
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
Federal immigration law requires that all non-US citizens, including H-1B workers, to carry documentation, but 'no state until Arizona has made it a crime to not have that paperwork on your person,'
So it already was a crime.
The real news is a state is now making an effort to enforce the law, since the executive branch of the federal government has quite clearly failed to fulfill their constitutional duties on the matter, in regards to enforcing the US borders.
People should read the law first. They should not turn someone's hit seeking web article into anything important. Arizona resident's have very legitimate concern about the criminal activities of organized crime in Mexico.
This is not a new story: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1
If you do not like the law, change it... do not disobey it.
I do not think that Indian, Russian, Chinese, etc engineers are really at risk of having their civil rights violated.
US citizens can also be stopped and asked for their papers too, and can be arrested, and held until they can prove their citizenship.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Immigration (the concept, not the people) and thinking it's possible to fence the US is a load of crap. How about we stop trying to demonize absolutely everything and stop spending too much of my tax dollars on policing such moronic ideals? Can we at least focus on the simple problems of life first, like health, education, employment, and shelter? Apparently not if we want to keep a select few in filthy wealth.
Someone making a reasonable statement being modded down as troll because just someone else with mod points disagrees with what they said is becoming all too common on Slashdot. I'm about ready to take my karma and go home.
This ain't rocket surgery.
I know the 4th amendment applies to US citizens, but does it apply to foreigners?
And how do you tell americans from foreigners?
Cause it's not against the law to not carry ID if say, your a mexian born american, but the cops won't know where your born at.
And considering "profiling" is illegal from what i understand, how can they actually enforce this law?
I don't live in AZ, but I'm not going to carry my ID around much anymore just in protest of stupid ass laws like this.
Be seeing you...
When you are visiting a foreign country, you always need to have some paperwork showing you status. That applies to every country that I've visited except, perhaps Canada. While in Canada, I don't really feel like I'm in a foreign country, so perhaps it is because there isn't a language barrier that I feel comfortable. I dunno.
In all the other countries (Europe, Japan, China, Costa Rica, Panama, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Mexico), I've been told to carry my passport with the VISA inside. Usually, I leave the passport in the apartment or hotel safe and carry a photocopy of it and the VISA I'm traveling under. In most of those countries, my appearance and dress target me as a foreigner, so it is very easy to pick me out.
Ok, so you are a non-permanent resident in the USA. Why wouldn't you carry "your papers with you?" Seriously?
I fully support Arizona in this experiment. I suspect the reason they have done this is because, unlike other border states like Texas and New Mexico( all three of which showed incredible job growth pre-2009), Arizona now has the county with the highest percentage job loss in the country. I am sure scaring foreign visitors to Texas and New Mexico, instead of Arizona, to shop at the stores, pay sales tax, eat at the restaurants, and even take helicopter rides from the airport to our shopping malls, will help their economy greatly. The kids may even go to university and settle down to engineering jobs that pay huge amounts of payroll and income tax. So far, at least in Texas, it has worked well.
But that is fine. If Arizona thinks that foreign money has negative value due to documentation or the blight of having people looking for work instead of playing video games or skin color(arizona is the only of the three states that is majority white non-hispanic) or whatever, so be it. We will see if they can achieve economic growth in an isolationist environment. Given that they have one of the highest federal support rate in the country, I doubt it.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
This law so clearly violates the fourth amendment that it will never hold up when the inevitable challenge comes in the courts. Some have predicted it will go all the way to the SCOTUS but I don't see it getting nearly so far.
I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
When I visit Canada, China, etc. If I don't have my passport with me, and an official requires it of me I could be detained and eventually handed off to my government to get new papers or explain to them where my papers are located.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
(On the other hand, I don't have anything I really need from Arizona).
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Kudos Arizona. There is a reason why they are called ILLEGAL immigrants. It doesn't matter whether they are Mexican, Chinese, German, British, Canadian, Russian, Japanese, whatever...if they are here illegally, they need to go through the proper process for gaining their citizenship or LEAVE. PERIOD.
It is going to be tied up in the courts for years. Even if it passes every legal challenge, it doesn't change much really. Officers or the courts will check with the government databases before people are penalised, so forgetting one's papers when they run to the 7-11 won't affect much.
Depending on location (it is not legal everywhere), citizens need to produce I.D. when asked by an officer.
As for individuals being harassed by the cops, the cops can do that currently.
Also, AZ (and the rest of the US) have people from all over. People who try to blend in will be fine and will blend in. Those that try to stand out will get harassed, just like always.
20 characters max for the password? How will I use my favorite poems as passwords?
And I live in a pretty laid-back country, too (Finland). Arizona is just trying to enforce the existing law. That is not a tragedy. It's a tragedy if it's done inconsistently.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Haven't left the house without documentation in 20 years. Was born in white bread Michigan; could not be more 'citizen'. This is ginned up outrage; an opportunity to mug for the cameras and demand the nobility of victimhood.
Federal immigration law requires that all non-US citizens, including H-1B workers, carry documentation
Federal immigration law requires that all non-US citizens, including H-1B workers, carry documentation
Federal immigration law requires that all non-US citizens, including H-1B workers, carry documentation
Just leave off the 'but'. Not difficult to understand.
I live in San Francisco, and trust me, no one listens to the city council.....
I'm not sure why everyone's panties are getting bunched up. As the header states, Federal law already requires you to carry your visa around with you. People on H1B, tourist, and educational visas shouldn't have problems.
The issue will really hit illegals and US citizens. Citizens generally don't carry documentation around with them. Illegals generally have no documentation, or fake documentation. There's really no way to tell a non-english speaking citizen from a non-english speaking illegal. What'll probably happen is something like this:
Police: are you a US citizen?
Potential perp: si
Police: well then.
In general, the police have better things to do than walk around randomly asking people for their papers. The law really just allows them to export illegal immigrant criminals to other jurisdictions, saving the state of AZ money.
In the past this was true, but this law exists specifically to remove that stipulation. Please read the legislation. You may be stopped "upon reasonable suspicion that an entity is not legally allowed to live within the country".
Perhaps you're confusing this with with the evidence criteria provision. The law says that race may be a factor, but it may not only be an only factor. Of course this is laughable -- people will be stopped for race, and cops will find (or create) additional evidence after-the-fact.
It's telling that even the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposes this law, as they believe it will erode trust with immigrants and distract police from more serious threats.
couldn't you?
shows where you stand.
That really has fuck all to do with a possible tech backlash, and everything to do with a.) San Francisco politicians for the most part being absolute imbeciles, near the level of a freak show b.) San Francisco being full of illegal immigrants, and therefore politicians are of course going to make a completely symbolic stand. I'm sure people in AZ are devastated by the potential loss of those tens of dollars of City of SF purchases.
To put it another way, CA is probably the most desirable state to live in, and gets away with arguably the worst taxes in the country, and it's on the verge of bankruptcy while having an immense illegal immigrant population. I live in the Mission and they've been doing construction that absolutely boggles the mind -- tens of millions of dollars to dig up perfectly good sidewalks and put them back almost exactly as they were. Meanwhile, half a block from one area of this construction (16th and Valencia) is a large homeless and crack addict population roaming the streets that apparently are not as important as having ever so slightly wider, more oppressive expanses of gray concrete.
Would you trust the opinion of these politicians about what makes sense? Do you think tech companies are really that incompetent to follow in their stead? CA and specifically SF politicians get away with being idiots because of the extra money they get from being in an otherwise highly desirable location. If a tech company was run by them, it wouldn't last six months.
Japan does this already; people are required to carry their foreigner ID cards or passports while they're in the country. Failure to be able to present them can lead to a visit to the police station or jail. Some areas have lots of people who report being checked for absolutely no apparent reason at all; foreigners in other areas have never experienced this.
Honestly, it doesn't bother me. For me, having my wallet or ID with me when I go out is just common sense... not some kind of panty-twisting injustice that I have to carry like a ball-and-chain. It's just common sense.
So I don't see what the big deal is. Now, on the other hand, if people are just stopped randomly on the basis of their appearance and not because of anything in particular they were doing, then yes, that would bother me. That bothers me in Japan, too. But having to carry an ID? Not a big deal -- you should be doing it already.
http://www.tenjou.net/
so what is the big deal? I have to carry my driver's license and insurance every time I drive, and my passport whenever I am in another country? so what if you have to carry documentation to prove you are legal? everyone else has to!
I find it strange that the article doesn't discuss the implications for normal U.S citizens, i.e how do you prove you are *not* a H-1B worker? You can't tell a citizen from a non-citizen if neither of them are carrying anything. Obviously no-one who merely arouses the suspicion of police wants to be detained, therefore this constitutes a defacto requirement for every citizen to carry papers.
The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. -- Percy Bysshe Shelley
its about time I say. If your not illegal you have nothing to worry about. If the first thing you did was break the law by coming here.. oh well.
Citizens generally don't carry documentation around with them
I, and pretty much anyone i know, carry my drivers license around all the time. Since in Arizona that's proof of citizenship, this law will effect only people without drivers licenses or other valid forms of ID.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I do. It's against the law to enter the United States without presenting yourself to customs. There is no law which would satisfy those who oppose immigration controls. I think the Arizona law is reasonable.
Most H1-B holders don't look like Hispanics...
This law is de facto targeted at a very specific minority group. There's no getting around it. Even if other groups could theoretically be targeted by it, that's not going to happen as long as the AZ police have Hispanics to round up.
That is all.
Create a state registry that links more common ID (e.g. driver's license number) to legal residency status. Make this opt-in and have it be easily accessible by cops in the field. Cop sees person he suspects of being an illegal immigrant. Cop asks for driver's license. Cop calls in the driver's license number, sees that the guy is on the registry, lets guy go about his merry way.
Actually the federal law does not make it a felony not to carry documentation all the time. Its not possible to carry documentation all the time. Its not just one document you know. For people with greencards, maybe but not others. There are plenty of ways you can prove that you are here legally without carrying 2 to 3 different pieces(Passport, I-797 or I-20, I-94) of document that are required to prove that you are legal. Lose those documents you have to wait 2-3 monts and spend $$$s trying to get duplicates. You cannot get driver's license in any state without proving to DMV that you are here illegally. Also, are the local LEOs going to check with federal databases if the paperwork that someone gives them is authentic or not? I understand why this law was enacted but its impractical to work the way its supposed to.
As a legal immigrant, I have spent years on F-1 and H-1B and more years just waiting on my greencard, I don't mind that I have to prove that I am here legally when needed but to ask me carry documentation all the time is at best debasing. Also, there are more people legally than illegally. What baffles me is why the businesses that employ illegals are dealt with stronger?
Will get off my soap box now.
I think Shepard Smith coined the abbreviation Breathing While Latino.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
How about people just comply with existing immigration law so the states don't have to pass laws specifically aimed at enforcement? Oh wait, it is racist to expect Mexicans to comply with US Federal law. My bad.
How do I know which companies I should buycott without a list of Arizona companies? I know Arizona Tea is actually Canadian, but I should patronize Dillon Precision.
So, where are all those Champions of the Constitution now that a US State has willfully and knowingly passed a law that opens the door to Gestapo-like dragnet searches of American citizens? Gee, I wonder why this isn't such and important issue for them...
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
while walking around the streets when visiting Ecuador. I did not have my passport on me (a legal requirement), but my girlfriend had hers. The solution that Ecuador's finest came up with was to propose that they detain my girlfriend while I went back to the hotel alone to fetch my passport. Thankfully one of them saw what an idiotic suggestion that was and talked his colleagues out of it.
Nullius in verba
Nice of you to point that out, I'll be sure to remember to share that the next time I visit friends and family on the Navajo Reservation. Oh, and BTW, you DO realize that the largest share of non English speaking U.S. citizens just happen to be members of the various First Nations, some of which comprise a SIZEABLE share of the property to be found in Arizona, right? Yep, your observation should be good for a couple laughs, comments, maybe a hand gesture or two.
Legal immigrants will have papers - Federal immigration rules requires them to carry them anyway.
Illegal immigrants are breaking the law in the first place, and yes this makes them being discovered more likely, but they should be worried already.
Citizens on the other hand are not required to carry proof of citizenship and are not already breaking the law. They are the ones who are going to be impacted most (well if they look mexican...)
All the brown skinned citizens should just not carry anything that identifies them as a citizen. I'm sure lots of lawyers will be willing to help them sue whenever they get arrested for not carrying their birth certificate/passport.
Laughably, the same a**hole seemed to have more than one mod point - you got a "flamebait" downmod too...
Whoever is running amok with points to spare (probably fregare's twin brother), go ahead, keep moderating like the idiot you are, you're doing a heck of a job!
If states would issue ids/driving licenses which would indicate citizenship, it would not have been a problem for citizens who carry them anyway....
Someone noted that you have a "signature" here. I cannot see it, so can you tell me what that's about please and what's in yours that has raised such a ruckus here today in your posts? Thanks.
The bill doesn't require citizens to carry documents, it can't, that'd be illegal. So you have the problem that more or less you'd have to take someone at their word. Now while you may argue that smart enforcement of it could be useful, that isn't what will happen. What will happen is Arizona is going to get on the losing end of a federal civil rights lawsuit:
A racist cop (because there are some police that are racists, just like any other segment of the population) is going to decide that someone is brown enough that they must be an immigrant and has done something allegedly suspicious demand their papers. Said person, who is a citizen, will tell them to fuck off. They arrest him. Turns out, like many people, he doesn't have ready access to documents to prove his citizenship so he's held in jail for some time. Citizenship is established, he goes free. He files suit against Arizona for violating his rights, since citizens are not required to carry proof of citizenship. Arizona loses money they really do not have.
That is a real problem here.
I'd like to see other countries implement a "no Arizonian" policy to see how the loud-mouthed whiteys like being singled out.
I'm particularly impressed how everyone is playing the 'racial profiling' (equating to Hispanic in context) card. AZ has *such* the problem with illegals from Canada.... Or maybe it does.
I'd like to see stats of, say, illegals deported from AZ by nationality and see if the ones who argue racial profiling still think there's cause.
No, wait, they will. It's always "our group" that's being put-upon regardless of facts.
*sigh*
I mean, I'm all for immigration, study abroad etc, but, if I'm required to carry identification, as a US citizen, so should people from elsewhere be required to carry papers proving legal status to be here. The article mentions that the immigrantion office could be behind, and there should be provisions for that, but NOT HAVING PROOF of legal right to be here should be charged as a crime the same as me not carrying ID. There is a different matter for not being willing to PRESENT ID, but not having what you need to prove you can be in a country should be a no-brainer.
if the governor of AZ was a democrat would anybody care if this was signed to law?
I read this law last Friday.
It is astonishing in its scope of stupidity.
Ignoring the civil rights issues which have been fully explained above, here are a couple of points not covered, because they are just truly bizarre:
It criminalizes bus drivers, cabbies, limo drivers, etc that do not make a "reasonable" attempt at determining passenger identity. All because it's intended to make it criminal to pick up a bunch of day workers with a truck. The law is so overbroad that if it was enacted in an urban area, it would cause chaos.
It also makes everyone guilty of a double misdemeanor by *also* charging them with Trespassing while being undocumented. This... this is just being spiteful.
The whole "papers please" bit is odious to actual citizens. I can't wait for the first Puerto Rican abused by this law.
It leaves "reasonable suspicion" and "careless disregard" completely undefined.
It makes local law enforcement do ICE's job when they'd rather be solving actual crimes. They would also like to be able to interview witnesses to real crime. But now that's all gone because someone's grandma is going to be deported to Mexico if a witness to a crime approaches police. No illegal immigrant is ever going to report a crime now.
The Sheriff's Departments are already strapped for cash. Now where are we going to put all the *other* illegal immigrants that committed no crime but one of status? Hey, let's build new prisons! Yay!
All of this is unfunded. There is no allocation with this law. Nothing to help with staffing and hiring more bodies to do this work.
Arizonans don't want to pay for the above. Well, guess what, you will. You will pay through the nose.
People have told me that this law is because the Federal Government has not followed through with reimbursing local law enforcement, and that ICE and the DEA and the rest of the feds are not doing their jobs. Well, this law doesn't do anything to solve that problem does it?
If the Feds have been sleeping while on watch, where is John McCain's legislation to fix this? Eh? *crickets.wav*
This law is a load of shit.
Please, keep this out of the rest of the US. Thanks.
--
BMO
Didn't South Africa have something like this called "Pass Laws"--if you don't have the proper identification on you then you are subject to arrest and detention? ...As a matter of fact, didn't Soviet Russia, and doesn't North Korea (today) also have this? Also China, and the people in Tibet. Welcome to Arizona, your new draconian state. I suppose the difference is that they are only targeting those pesky foreigners. I know someone who bought property there (an apartment building), but he's not a US citizen. I suspect he will try to sell it (I don't know if he can do maintenance on the property if he is denied access). Also, I would think twice about investing (in business or anything) there, as I would want to travel there, but don't want to be arrested for being a foreigner (I'm not American). I guess that also goes for being a tourist there. Arizona doesn't need any of that yukky foreign investment or those stinky foreign tourists anyway! We'll just spend our yukky foreign money somewhere else.
As a resident of Japan, I officially have to carry around my foreigner's registration card at all times. Also, just as will happen in Arizona, a police officer may attempt to check my papers, but is legally restricted from doing so unless he has probable cause. Many foreigners get harassed this way, anyway. Rumor has it that you can turn it around on the officer and ask for his ID, which will usually get them to back down. Again, the same rules should apply in the states.
Quid pro quo, as a blonde, white man I'm usually left alone, because it's assumed that I belong to the right group of foreigners. A black friend of mine, also an American, has been stopped once or twice a year for six years. Where Japanese have a hard time is when they discriminate against other Asian ethnicities, since they look like everyone else. That's where Arizona may run into difficulties as well, since they have a large population of Hispanic Americans.
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
And if you're a citizen, better carry your passport or birth certificate with you at all times. I don't see what the big fuss is about.
In most places in the world... the first world included... visitors are required to have documentation on them of some kind, be it visa papers or a passport.
The US government already requires green card holders to have their green card on them - or at least it did 6 years ago when I was living there. There was even some relatively large fine if an official asked for it and you are unable to immediately produce it. Of course in practice you are never asked for it except at the airport but it meant that I had to carry it with me wherever I went "just in case".
The problem with this law is that I imagine that many US citizens will end up being hassled by police. It is easy for immigrants to prove that they are legal by showing their papers but unless US citizens start carrying passports or birth certificates how can they prove that they are NOT immigrants?
hahahhahaa you majorly fucking fail at life, you fucking teabagger!
Oh god, please get those godless, incompetent idiots out of my live and out of this country.
The most amusing is that the federal government have been running immigration status checkpoints inside the US for years, and nobody knows and/or cares about it.
Witness: http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/10/aclu-23-of-us-population-lives-in-constitution-free-zone.ars
Or am I missing something about this new law that's substantially worse?
Have you been to AZ?
Most of the place in on a 1 mile grid, and the temperature is in the low 100s (F).
No one walks!
Everyone drives in the most air conditioned car they can get.
Christ, you walk into a McDonalds in AZ and the air conditioner in the air-lock-like entrance chamber literally hits you with a gale-force blast of cold air.
BTW, you know who hates (and I means HATES) the illegal immigrants the most?
Legal 1st generation immigrants.
I was talking to a guy doing work on my house, and gave him the usual white liberal line of "oh they are just trying to find a better life".
I got my head bit off. He made sure he set me straight about his feelings of illegal immigrants and the amount of crime and negative stereotype they cause his community.
While I have no problem with the Arizona law that simply makes it illegal to do what you are already 'required' to do, it doesn't solve the problem. The problem isn't that we can't find the criminals, but that we don't do anything when we do find them.
I live in TN and here there are several instances of people being killed by illegal aliens who have been arrested and released time and time again. We catch them for crimes for which we would put citezens in jail, but when we discover that they are illegals we release them for political pressure. Don't think that they don't know this and take advantage of it.
Also, let me ask a few questions. For those of you who say that we should just open our borders to anybody or that it is somehow immoral to dictate who can come into your property, would you say the same of your house? How many vagabonds have you invited to live in your home? Would you offer a burglar the status of family member because he broke in? That is your property, so how is it any different for a state? If you practice what you preach, that's fine. Post your address and I might consider moving in. It would sure beat paying rent. Also, will you pay my medical expenses too?
There are 10 commandments: 01)Thou shalt love the Lord Thy God 10)Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matt22:34-40
But then all businesses, if there's a reasonable suspicion that they're Arizona-based, will need to supply proof of what state they're from, and what states' residents the majority of their stock is held by.
There is no way to enforce this law without harassing American citizens and legal residents. If a cop thinks you might be Mexican (or Canadian, or German, etc) you will be asked to produce your proof of citizenship, green card, etc. And, no, your driver's license is not proof of citizenship. If YOU (an American citizen) go out for smoothie and forget to take your notarized birth certificate and social security card, you can be locked up while they process your status.
Don't believe that can happen? It happens already... the only difference is now this new law REQUIRES the police to do it and encourages citizens to sue the police if they don't. It is going to be a godawful mess and will probably bankrupt some rural municipalities. If they try to uphold the law they will be sued by improperly detained citizens. If they fail to uphold it they will be sued by other citizens who still see too many durn Mexicans walking around. Its a no-win situation for the police (and any too tan citizen).
This is a big deal, and if you think it is not, I'll leave you with this final point: A major consulting client based in Texas just told me they are canceling their expansion into Arizona. The owner of the company is 3rd generation Hispanic American and about a third of his work force are either Hispanic, Indian, or Asian. Whether or not enforcement of this law becomes the debacle many of us suspect, the expectation of harassment is enough to cause major economic damage to the state.
There is a much better way to handle the problem of illegal immigration: Crack down on the business that hire undocumented workers. Have real enforcement with real financial penalties for the businesses that don't follow the rules (not the token effort and paltry wrist slap fines we have now). Without job opportunities, you remove the incentive for illegals to even enter in the first place.
The Bolachek Journals
Just compile a DNA database of all US citizens. As an extra bonus, it will shortly end up in the hands of homeland security, the CIA, marketers, "health" "insurance" companies, and Nazis.
I always have embassy certified paper copies of several ID-papers with me.
It is stored together with critical phone numbers and other information that might be handy.
Me, my wife, and our biological child are born on three different continents. We currently live in a very different part of the world than the birth place of any of us.
Travellers tip: Shit happens. Be ready.
around the same time ICE stripped Maricopa counties sheriff of his authority to arrest illegal immigrants (only ICE has this authority under federal law) due to his questionable human/civil rights practices. So everyone who keeps pointing out that it was already existing federal law is neglecting that he was essentially deputized by ICE to make immigration arrests and that this law was not necessary *until* he started violating other laws and ICE said 'okay no more' when DOJ et al started investigating him, MCSO and the county attorney's office (indictments are expected for all of the above) for ... (wait for it) violating civil rights while enforcing immigration standards (well the investigation is more encompassing than that-- it also includes things like using police resources to essentially wage war on anyone who disagreed with him/political rivals). Only *then* did the law become necessary, because he couldn't continue doing what the federal government already said was illegal for him to do.
Plus the way the law is written, it legitimizes his practices of racial profiling and such. Yes I am aware the law says it cannot be the *only* factor. However anyone that makes this point has never dealt with MCSO or the overall corrupt government in that state.
IM MOVING TO ARIZONA!!!
'no state until Arizona has made it a crime to not have that paperwork on your person,'
Many states, NY included, have laws that you must have a valid state issued ID on your person at all times, immigrant or citizen. All this hysteria is stupid. All the AZ law does is enable police officers in the state to enforce EXISTING federal law that is currently being ignored. For God's sake, crossing the border illegally is/has been a misdemeanor resulting in up to 6 months in prison, 2nd crossing is a felony punishable with up to 2 years in prison...
J
This is similar to the laws about foreign residents in Japan. There is one major loophole though, they can't ask you for your ID unless you are foreign. They can't know you are foreign without seeing your ID. (They can *think* you look foreign, but until they see your ID, they don't *know*.) You can simply tell them that you are a citizen, and thus don't have to show your ID. If you don't want to lie, you can say "What makes you think I am foreign?" at least. If it's because of your skin color or accent (which it almost certainly will be), you can say "Oh, so all xxxxx people are foreign?" At least your point will probably stick before they haul your ass away into the cop car.
Also, if you *are* a" foreign looking" citizen, you can refuse to show ID, wait for them to arrest you, and then sue their asses - if you are into being Rosa Parks.
because federal law already stated people under immigration law were already qrequired to have their papers. Don't blame Arizona for federal law.
And I live in a pretty laid-back country, too (Finland). Arizona is just trying to enforce the existing law.
For some reason the USA, alone in the world, is not allowed to have borders or exert any control with immigration like everyone else. I've looked very seriously into retiring overseas and, holy shit, some of the hoops you have to jump through even if you have money and skills on the particular country's most wanted list are amazing.
The stupid thing is Arizona has been doing this for three years with no problems. The law just formalized it. The ruckus is made by people who live in little reality distortion bubbles and sit around in ideological echo chambers their entire lives. The law's passage and its farcical coverage by our piss poor, controversy fabricating, yellow news media raised it's profile past the threshold of awareness for the armies of idiots.
Also, this is Slashdot where a small legion of tech geeks likes to pretend they are the rag tag rebels fighting the tyranny and the fascism they imagine infests their lazy, pampered and privileged Western existences.
Sadly this is the level of public discourse in the USA. The allusions to Nazis or Soviet Russia come spewing out of the marching morons like projectile diarrhea at a salmonella festival. I guarantee anyone making such a comparison had not read the (easily accessed online) law. And it's not just babbling rhetoric. Many really, honestly do think Arizona has suddenly transformed into Nazi Germany. That's *really* the image they have in their ossified minds. And even if you prove otherwise, they will become *defiant* and even *proud* in their beliefs.
The USA has become the Bizarro world, a parallel universe where every day it Opposite Day. We no longer have to wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes because we *are* the rabbit hole. We're a nation of Mad Hatters celebrating the un-birthdays while the truth sits in a dusty corner, withering away.
So how are things in Finland? Not sure I'd like the weather, but I'm open to many things to get the hell out of this kingdom of eternal idiots. Seriously, this place is fricking doomed.
Tell me, why aren't the useless, loudmouth teabaggers up in arms about this unconstitutional law?
Oh that's right, it doesn't affect white people.
Nearly 80% of the Arizona population fully supports the bill so all the crying in the world is not likely to stop it.
In fact just 5 days ago a local phoenix grocery chain got busted for employing nearly 300 illegal workers. The very next day hundreds upon hundreds of legal american workers showed up to apply for those now vacant positions. I guess that just proves the nobody wants those jobs theory all wrong.
What happens if I step foot in Mexico? Thats right if someone asks me for my passport I had damn well better be able to produce it.
The truth is the law is gonna work and I am sure the fed govt is running scared about it for that very reason. When the unemployment rate drops like a rock the other states will follow suit extremely fast.
This is not a political blog. Please keep these topics (medical, political, etc) off the frontpage. If it's on the frontpage news, we don't need it repeated here.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
Martin Luther King might have suggested having every citizen of color in Arizona go to their local police station without their papers. If the police had to process two hundred thousand people who otherwise can easily prove citizenship AND the courts had to give them their due court time, it would clog the system for decades and cost the state a fortune.
Wrong.
You only need to do that if you're crossing a border. That's probably why they tell you to carry it in Europe. It's easy to cross a border, even in western Europe and not know it.
I've travelled extensively around Asia. I have never been required to constantly carry my passport or Visa papers around with me. In fact, any experienced traveller, including myself will tell you DO NOT carry your passport around with you when you don't need it. Keep it locked in your hotel safe, if you have it with you 24/7 it is likely to get stolen and you passport is your lifeline, you need it to get home, you need it to get money from a bank or Western Union, if you lose it you're screwed and it will cost a mint to get a new one from your embassy.
Personally I can confirm that:
Thailand
Cambodia
Vietnam
Laos
China
Malaysia
Singapore
and the Philippines
to be non-"papers please" nations.
It is your responsibility to have a visa and produce it when needed, it is not a good idea to have it on you at all times as the police will quite happily issue you with a fine (invalidated when you produce the paperwork) or take you to your hotel room to get it. In most nations the regular police do not handle immigration issues, the immigration service does this and issues fines or arrest warrants for over-stayers.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
You think like a ReThuglican Jew!
It is actually crazy that this law has to be made. It is essentially a law that says it is illegal to be illegal. Enforce our laws!
See?
MSNBC: ‘Law makes it a crime to be illegal immigrant’
Best headline ever!
Then you're free to go back to where you came from.
If I were in another country illegally, I think having my ID checked and getting tossed out on my ass would be the best I could hope for.
What the hell is it people don't get about "Illegal Immigrants"??? The word "Illegal" is right there for christsakes!!!
I think it's pretty damn pathetic that my friends that own a house here, and follow the letter of the law in their travels to and from the US, are treated like criminals every time they land, but people are beating their chests over people that are f'ing CRIMINALS!!!
If I break the law, I get punished.. If a person is here illegally, breaking the law, people want to throw them a damn parade.
My great grandparents on both sides of my family came over right before and right after WW I, LEGALLY... The obeyed the law, they learned English. They got steady work and paid taxes.. Why should people too crooked to do the same get any special treatment? Hell, why should they get to take any shortcuts when there are many that are here legally? What example will we be setting? What precedent will we be setting???
I think it's past time for me to hop on my sailboat and leave, and flip the bird as I go.. The US is beyond help if the majority of people are too stupid to get how f'd up this debate is.
In order to be a nation every nation must control its borders. In the case of the US it is more than blatantly obvious that the majority of people in Mexico, Central and South America as well as numerous nations far away all would like to immigrate to the US. If we do not lock down our borders we risk being totally over run with immigrants. Pakistan and India alone would destroy us if we did not keep control of immigration.
I don't think it is a big deal at all for people to carry a wallet with either a driver's license or state ID which enables law enforcement to easily verify their status. And raiding businesses that hire illegal immigrants should result in the seizure of the businesses. If law enforcement does its job we will have no illegal immigrants at all in America.
Officer: Papers please.
You: I object against that sir. As you do not have "reasonable suspicion" I do not have to show you my papers.
Officer: Suspicious... All illegal immigrants say that. Now I reasonably suspect you are one. Papers please.
So suppose someone is an "illegal" foreigner. Suppose this someone has a job at a respectable software company, pays the rent on time... and helps the landlady take out her garbage. If only the tax department let them, they'd gladly pay tax too. So what's the *real* problem about being an illegal foreigner? Is it really just xenophobia?
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
That's not true, at least in the province of Quebec.
I lived there as an illegal immigrant (fell in love with a Quebecois) and was actually told by both a Quebec trooper and a local neigborhood cop that they were not allowed to ask for any proof of residency.
In fact I was stopped many times. Once for a traffic violation (Montreal transit is quite unique) and the officer promptly let me go after explaining him that I was from abroad and receiving a quick lesson about driving in Montreal. Also, I'm not American and ended up there after a very, very large tour of North America (Mexico, US, and Canada) that was part of a motorcycle trip I made alone from my home country far, far away.
On another occassion I was stopped because I was carrying a desktop computer complete with monitor in my motorcycle, I actually had my papers and passport with me and offered them to the officer. She declined seeing them and told me they were none of her bussines, and she kindly loaded my stuff on her patrol car and took everything all the way to my destination (she was worried my stuff might fall).
In fact the reason I'm in my home country right now and not living there is that I made the terrible mistake of applying for residency at the federal level and not the provincial level because my employer (a university) told me so. The federal government threatened me with a deportation order, the funny thing is that if I didn't make an application they would have never noticed me and I could have continued to work illegally for years. I also could have lied on the application but I didn't, told the whole truth. My girlfriend offered to marry me to get things done quicker but I declined, as I wanted to marry for love, not legal convenience. Now I'm banned from the country. Maybe one day when my sweetheart finishes her studies I can reunite with her...
Now, believe it or not, back in my country I had just left university and worked for a defense contractor (I'm very talented in certain field) and had a six-figure annual salary in USD, and well, my country is a developing country, everything is dirt cheap, and I am single, you can imagine the quality of life I had. In Montreal I literally worked for food on my first job and later got better jobs until I was offered one at a university that paid the equivalent of $4,000USD monthly for the first year.
The point of me saying this is that not every immigrant leaves his country for a better quality of life, or as Americans and some Canadians say "to take our jobs". Some of us just end up in the right time in the right place and decide to make a living there. And we are fucked because of stupid economic immigration laws.
I hope one day we can live in a world without borders. In the meanwhile Arizonians and Americans should learn from Quebecois. In fact, Arizonians might very well focus on fixing their roads as one of their potholes made my rear tire burst and getting a new Metzeler in the middle of nowhere was quite a challenge.
I also remember a cop in Arizona that thought I was from Germany because of my accent, that said to me "I didn't know Europe was so close to Mexico" when I told him that I had just left Mexico. To this day I wonder if he was joking.
Quebecois, I love you all. Thanks for the amazing treatment you gave me back there, despite my ignorance of your language and culture. You are the nicest and most open and friendly people in the whole northern hemisphere. I'll never forget it. Vive le Quebec!
And yes I know this is quite offtopic and nobody cares but I really felt the need to say it.
Kudos to Arizona for having the backbone to stand up in this foolhardy clime we live in and fight for what is right. We have been overran with illegal immigration. Our politicians have lacked the character and backbone to enforce the laws of the land. It's reached critical mass at last; we are about to explode. Globalization is a concept fed to the foolish to excuse corporate imperialism about the globe. This sick, fallacy riddled logic has found foothold in our education system where it thrives and propagates. It doesn't help that the US has accelerated backwards in the realm of education, in fact it's entire attitude towards education has become mocking. With such slack standards, its no wonder it has fostered forth the mindsets that rail against the sound logic of Arizona's new laws.
Behold now the hysterical rhetoric that will spew forth about this situation. We must wake up to the facts of our present day condition. We can't let a masochistic mindset that "we are the evil white people, we should bow our heads in guilt" cloud our reasoning. The border situation is wildly out of control, and by the time its consequences reached the high ivory towers where those who reside scorn Arizona, and rattle them from their delusions with bone jarring abruptness and clarity, it will be far too late. We must face the simple facts of the matter; we must fight even ourselves in these matters to save ourselves. We are at a crossroads, if we don't face the hard fight now, the campaign to our salvation will never be won. Too much ground has been lost, the wrong people have had ample time to gain power and traction. We see even here, on /., the fragments of a war of mindsets.
It is time to make a stand, to call fools out for what they are, and enforce the rule of law.
Take the Red Pill.
That's not specific to immigration; there are many law enforcement situations where police need to hold you until they can figure out who you actually are. That's why we need a national identity card system. Such a system exists to make it easy for people to prove their identity when it is in their best interest. Being able to prove your identity and having your identity be difficult to forge are good things. It's the lack of such an identity system that causes us to choose between a police state or no law enforcement at all.
And, yes, if you don't carry any identity documents, the police can't find you in databases, and nobody on the outside can help you, you are fucked; do you want lack of documentation to be a get-out-of-jail-free card?
Get a friend who can help you. Or if you're friendless, get a depository like a notary or bank who can act on your behalf.
For states that are not on the border, immigration may not seem like it's a bad problem
It's pretty sad when even people who oppose illegal migration fall into this trap.
Immigration is not a problem; immigrants pay, are productive members of society, and get deported if they break any laws.
The problem is illegal migration. Illegal migration is not immigration. Stop confusing the two.
> It's a tragedy if it's done inconsistently.
Have you ever lived here? There's no way to consistently enforce this law, to begin with (and no record of us ever doing so).
We have a Sherriff who goes around and does immigration sweeps right before election time (yes, the Sherriff here is elected). These sweeps caused so many problems for some innocent people that at least one city kicked the Sherriff out and got their own police.
FWIW, I'm white (so this probably won't affect me) and a registered Republican. But I'm pretty sick of all the thinly veiled racism that has brought forth. No, not everyone is a racist and some people go way too far with that accusation. But I've also seen people act nasty and racist because they think that I'm a white Arizona conservative so I'll be okay with it. Note that they hide this in public.
The real problem here, IMHO, is all the racism. If it were up to me, there would be no borders anywhere. I don't like the idea that our governments own us.
The local economy would collapse. There's this myth that illegal immigrants loot the welfare system, but the truth is that they're here to work, and we couldn't afford to do without them.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
> - Many of us already citizens have fought for and killed for this country, possibly close to you right now; it is NOT a good idea to tell us to get fucked.
America: land of the free, land of the brave, and land of the OMG f*cking trigger-happy postal psychos.
> They CANNOT walk up to a random person on the street and check their immigration status.
Wrong. We have a stop & identify statute. They can use that to check on anyone they want.
See also: the sweeps that are performed whenever our sheriff is up for reelection.
> Alright, so if you're a US citizen who believes the police may have reason to suspect you're in the country illegally, you have a few options to avoid any issues. First and foremost, a driver's license works wonders.
Yeah, a driver's license sure did this guy a lot of good.
And you think that you're saying that US citizens are never affected? Or that dumping thousands more people onto a broken system is a good idea (rather than going after the violent ones or, God forbid, funding the system so that it can actually process things at a reasonable rate)?
I don't think that the police are Gestapo by any means. As a matter of fact, all the policemen I've met were fundamentally decent. But I hate to see so many people outraged over illegal immigrants so much that they support a bad law that will lead to so much trouble for US citizens and other people here legally.
There simply is nothing other than race and speech (AKA racial profiling) that can give you a "reasonable suspicion" that people are here illegally, but many citizens and legal immigrants look and sound the same as your stereotypical illegal immigrant. Combined with our long history of conducting immigration sweeps, in which large numbers of people are detained, it becomes both suspect and Constitutionally troubling (why aren't people defending our 4th Amendment rights as much as our 2nd Amendment rights?). We also have a long history of losing civil rights lawsuits (which costs our states millions... but they'd rather press on and force us to chose between tax increases and education cuts than admit that the policies we have are bad).
But yeah, never mind that your points are undermined by things that have actually happened. The politicians scapegoat all of our problems on immigration. It makes it so much easier than them actually having to fix things. I've watched people scapegoat immigrants for all sorts of problems, even troubles I've had at work. It didn't go over very well when I pointed out that I knew who was responsible for those problems and that they were both US citizens and white. We don't even employ any non-citizens and the only one we used to was an H1-B from the UK who left due to unreasonable delays in processing his application for permanent residency (and who we haven't been able to adequately replace).
Are you an Indian? No? Then you are an illegal immigrant yourself and your ancestors killed millions of natives to steal their land.
Always funny to see a immigrant complaining about immigrants.
And your whole story sounds more like your legal system is a mess. And maybe if you didn't deny healthcare to people you wouldn't have such problems. What civilized society denies healthcare to anyone?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
And one truck driver was arrested despite having their drivers license and commercial trucker license given to the police. The police INSISTED that he give over his BIRTH CERTIFICATE to prove he was born in the US.
You see, there's the law that is written and the law that the police will set themselves to.
They normally do not coincide with each other, but if you try to tell the police what the law AS WRITTEN is, they arrest you for resisting arrest.
Arbitrary lines drawn on the ground. Drawn by pampered aristocrats who are long dead. And you all are fighting each other about the best way to enforce these lines. Look at yourselves. Honestly...
So how do they prove their citizenship when stopped? Would they just be detained until they can have someone bring their passport to the local jail? No one seems too concerned with that scenario because of the unspoken assumption that anyone who "looked" like a citizen wouldn't be stopped.
And since 80% of us have never held a passport, things get really interesting really fast. Birth certificates are often time consuming to get (mine took several weeks from when it was ordered to when it arrived), and don't exactly offer photographic proof that you are the person on the certificate (how could they: you were a baby at the time and probably look very different now...though in the case Rush Limbaugh, maybe not).
This will be a nightmare for anyone, citizen or not, who the cops don't like. It may start with racists going after those of hispanic origin, or those with foreign sounding accents (like, say, someone from Bostin in Montana the locals think sounds English, Irish, Scottish, or Welsch cuz, don't ya know, no 'Mericans talk like that), but eventually it could be any of us. After all, what's to say your lilly white, perfect American accented self isn't Canadian? Papers please! (Except this is America, so we'll just drop the 'please' part).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Bostin=Boston. God, I really should check for typos before hitting submit.
Welsch=Welsh, except in Germany. Probably a dozen or so others I've missed...alas.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
IF employers start getting perp walked. I've seen first hand the fraud and abuse in the H1-B process, and there are two victims here: The H1-B worker, who is almost always abused and is usually never paid what the employer is claiming to the government that they are, and American IT workers, who have to compete with unfair competition in the form of what amounts to indentured servitude, a form of slave labor.
Corporatism != Free Market
OTH, I am guessing that Az will work towards a new and fairer law. Basically, change this law to:
Personally, I hope that they will change that to exclude all those under 18 (i.e. schools, medical care for children). Ideally, they would also allow exceptions for children that were brought there by parents (easily proven by school records) and are now adults. But, I doubt it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Watch the movie Born in East LA if you dare. A comedy from the 80's seems to have been prophetic.
Hey hey hey - No spouting off 'FACTS' in the middle of the 'OMG it's Unconstitutional!' hysteria by people who don't know diddly about the Constitution or the way it works in every other Nation on the planet.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
When rich white folk start having to pay real money to legal citizens for what they deem "menial" jobs, that law is going to vanish with great rapidity. I'm not saying that I'm happy with that dynamic but there's not a whole lot I can do about it from here.
If you are pulled over for a traffic violation and you no drivers license, no insurance and know only 3 words of English, you might be an illegal.
If you are single man and live in a two bedroom apartment with 24 other men, you might be an illegal.
If your primary means of getting a day job is chasing after pickups and trying to jump in the bed of the truck, you may be an illegal.
If you send the majority of your income back to a small town in Mexico via 7-11 money order (without paying taxes), odds are you are an illegal.
Feel free to add on!
After all, Arbeit macht Frei.
Unless your an undocumented alien in AZ...then Arbeit (work) lands your ass in jail.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
When I was in the US as a tourist or later as a visa holder, I was aware that I had was required to carry documentation with me. But I did not carry my passport (which contained my visa or visa waiver) everywhere. It stayed in the relative safety of my hotel or home, primarily to protect me from my own stupidity of losing it. And if I were asked to provide proof of of my legal status (I never was), I would have politely asked the officer to follow me to whereever I kept my documents.
Now the threat of being arrested and detained is a different ball game.
Would I now have to keep documentation on me while, for example, jogging? Taken to the extreme, can the police stand at the finish line of the Phoenix marathon and throw people in jail if they look suspiciously alien?
Also, there is the obvious issue that you can't tell the difference between US citizens (which are not required to carry nor show ID), tourists, legal aliens, and illegal immigrants without racial profiling.
I had to carry my Alien registration card and visa with me at all times when I was living in Japan. It wasn't that big of a deal - kind of like carrying around your drivers license and insurance if you're a driver. I don't know anyone who doesn't carry around important documentation with them at all times anyway. The only real problem I have with this is the assumption that being born on a certain piece of land entitles you to rights, health care, etc that a person born across the border has no access to. Obviously this is an extremely complicated issue, but it just never seemed very fair in any way a person could look at it.
From the excerpt above:
So, exisiting law, being enforced - Oh, those haters in AZ!
What is the penalty for failure to produce my driver's license on that same "7-11 run"? How about if I forget my car insurance paperwork? Registration?
Requiring paperwork is nothing extra-ordinary, and if I understand the first excerpt above, when foreign nationals choose to come to America and work/live here under H-1B, Student, and other visas, they agreed to carry their paperwork with them - it was a condition on the offer to come her, in effect.
Is the argument that existing laws can not be enforced, or is it that AZ is the wrong entity to enforce these laws? If the Federal Government won't enforce their own existing laws, and (apparently) has no interest in changing the existing laws, then who will? Remember, AZ is mirroring existing federal law, if the federal law were changed, AZ would be forced to change it's laws.
Ken
Create an opt-in state registry whereby legal non-citizen residents can "prove" their legal status and map that status to a more common form of identification (e.g. driver's license). If they're stopped by police they show this *common* form of identification, which the officer can then look up in the registry to verify legal status.
I repeatedly see people discussing the costs illegal immigrant incur on society, particularly since they typically don't have car insurance or medical insurance. What I don't see is a discussion of the demand driving them to be here:
1. Employers, who are US citizens, seek them out because they are cheap labor and can be abused without repercussions, since they are afraid to report the abuse to authorities.
2. Consumers, who are US citizens, choose to purchase the goods and services created by their labor, because they are cheaper than the competing products.
Did you buy a newly built home in the last 10 years? Did you visit the construction site? Can you honestly say you were not aware that many of the day laborers working on the site where probably illegal? Did you do anything about it?
Have you bought berries on sale at the grocery store brought in from California? Can you honestly say you weren't aware that they were probably picked by illegal immigrants?
If we really want to quell the flow of illegal immigrants across the border, we need to address the demand for their services. Take an active role in NOT buying goods and services provided by them, and the demand will go down. Yes, its going to cost you money. Lots of money. That's the reality - we will all pay more for the goods and services currently provided by illegal immigrants if they are instead provided by legal immigrants and US citizens. Let's talk about that for a while.
Suppose you actually understand respect the law instead of putting mocking quotes around literal concepts, and I would think you're actually interested in the answer instead of being a pompous ass.
Are you seriously looking for enlightenment? Because what you posted shows that you've already reached your conclusion, and you're passing that concept on to us poor unwashed.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
"According to an AZ lawyer friend, this law won't last 15 seconds in court before its invalidated."
Uh huh.
And of course, there's no way that congress could pass a law for warrant-less wiretaps. Patently unconstitutional.
And you can't hold detainees forever without being charged, just simply call them "enemy combatants". That's illegal, right.
Actually, I think the law makes sense. The H1-B's already have something to prove legal residence.
That the cop must have a valid reason for making legal contact. This means the individual is already under investigation for another crime or the police has probable cause to stop the individual. Then if during questioning he has reason to believe that person's legal status in the country may not be what he represent then he can ask for the required documents that visitors and legal foreign residents are required, by federal law, to carry. U.S. citizens just need to show a driver's license, state issue id or a valid passport. Just like when starting a job. The governor also issued an executive order requiring classes and training to avoid any type of racial profiling. Now as to the real reason why this law was passed 1) Phoenix, the state capital, is the kidnapping capital of the nation because of the illegal immigration. 2) It is not safe to live any where near the border with Mexico. Just ask the people who live in border towns like Bisbee, Nogales or Douglas. Or even the family of the rancher that was killed simply because he was on his land when illegal immigrants were trespassing. 3) No fencing along the border with Mexico along with inadequate patrols and no anticipation of any improvements. Now someone will mention how our wonderful Secretary of DOH stated that the border is as secured as it ever was. Well Janet Napolitano used to be Governor of Arizona. Then when everything began falling apart like the state economy and the violence from Mexico spilling over into Arizona she was given a lifeboat out of the situation by Obama so she would not be stuck with any of the blame. The same Obama who has not provided any solutions so this law would not have even been considered let alone enacted.
All they did was copy paste the federal immigration law section into state law so that they can enforce it. They also added additional protections that the federal law does not provide. Way to go reading the bill: Looks like the democrats are at it again.
"Specifies that in addition to any violation of federal law, a person is guilty of willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document if the person is in violation of 8 U.S.C. 1304(e) or 1306(a)."
Read the bill please before you go around acting stupidly.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.sb1070_04-19-10_astransmittedtogovernor.doc.htm
I live in Belgium, and like so many countries, I've been legally obliged to have identification on me at all times, iirc whenever I'm more than 2km from home. There's also a legal requirement to carry some money, used to be 500 BEF / € 12.50 - dunno if the amount has changed since the introduction of the Euro.
It's not a big deal. Get over it.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
The furor over this bill has reached lunacy. If Al Sharpton and much of San Francisco is against it, it must have been a brilliant idea.
Sounds great to me, immigration is overworked and will never catch up to all the illegals so any help at the state level should be welcomed, and it will probably open up the door for some US citizens to get tech jobs in their own country while the foreigners are being carted off to jail. And I know what you are gonna say, "this is a free country", yes it is, for the citizens anyway. I live in an area where illegals are the norm for regular jobs such as farming and timber, so I would like to see this take hold. I watched as companies are put out of business by one legal with a crew of illegals, happens all the time (some of which they brought upon themselves by hiring a few illegals and training them in the industry...not they are paying for using that cheap labor). Now of course this is mostly illegals from Mexico, but I would love for this to happen here in the south.
I find it interesting that people are getting upset about one state actually doing something about a situation that is harming the state and its residents due to the federal government failing to enforce existing laws.
I also find it somewhat disingenuous that people are arguing against the state law on the basis that immigration control is the province of the federal government - if the federal government were enforcing its own laws, state action would be unnecessary.
That said, there is a simple process by which illegal immigration can be stopped cold, and we can simultaneously rid ourselves of the illegals already here:
For purposes of this process, "employer" shall mean anyone with direct hire/fire authority over the worker in question AND the overall manager in charge of the location at which the worker is employed.
1) Require that all employers verify citizenship or legal immigration status of each worker as a condition of employment for that worker.
2) Anyone found to be knowingly employing an illegal alien will be subject to fines and penalties as follows:
a) A fine of one year's pay for the illegal alien worker, for each worker so employed (or $5000 per illegal alien worker, whichever is greater), shall be paid by the employer.
b) Employers shall be subject to 5 years prison at hard labor per illegal worker, sentences for multiple offenses to run consecutively.
3) Illegal alien workers shall be subject to 5 years prison at hard labor each time they are caught. They will be paid nothing for this time in prison, and at the end of their sentence they will be deported.
4) Employers and illegal workers serving prison terms under the above points shall be put to hard labor building roads as chain gangs or doing other hard labor, as the state where they were captured shall dictate. This hard labor may include leasing inmate labor to corporations or other states at a rate of up to one half the federal minimum wage. Funds received for inmate labor must be used first for the feeding and housing of the inmates, and then for the general expenses of the prison system should any funds remain.
5) One half of the amount of any fines collected under section 2a above will be paid in a lump sum to informants who lead authorities to illegal workers and employers, once those individuals are convicted and the fines levied.
---------------
Follow the above process, and employers will stop hiring illegal workers - it won't be worth the fines and prison time.
Illegal workers will stop coming here - it won't be worth the prison time, and 5 years of making absolutely no money, even if they can find someone to employ them.
Even the illegals will be reporting their employers, to get the financial windfall that their share of the fines will represent. For a large employer, a whistleblower might never have to work again.
The source of cheap (prison) labor would still be there, long enough for the country to grow acclimated to not having a huge pool of unskilled workers available who are basically economic slaves.
In six months, you wouldn't be able to find an illegal worker in the country, outside of prison... and if they can't work, there is no reason for them to be here.
With the illegals gone, the country can then see about adjusting its immigration policies accordingly, to ensure the necessary labor pool is available.
"Federal immigration law requires that all non-US citizens, including H-1B workers, to carry documentation, but 'no state until Arizona has made it a crime to not have that paperwork on your person"
Federal law requires aliens to "carry documentation." If you don't "carry documentation" you're breaching federal law, right? So who made it a crime? If you don't have the "paperwork on your person," just how are you "carrying documentation?" And yet, it's a 100% unenforced law! Why have a law that's not enforced? AZ finally had enough of that. No law is convenient to everyone all the time. Get over it.
This much is established -- and reported in AP summaries elsewhere A drivers license OR valid state issued ID or Military ID or Passport or Immigration document (H-1b or Green card, which holders are required by FEDERAL LAW to have on them at all times) creates the presumption of legal residence. Also the law requires the "reasonable suspicion" standard to be met -- something that makes it very difficult for a "just because" stop - -the police officer MUST be able to provide a legal and rational reason for having a suspicion --- and by that it means that race gender or other constitutionally protected attributes may NOT be part of that reason. Race or color cannot be the reason for asking - its actually written specifically into the law. Furthermore, before this law actually comes into play, it must be a LEGAL CONTACT - a term that means the law enforcement officer is stopping you for some other reason. Finally, this basically extends enforcement of Federal Law to state law enforcement agents. THe law is nearly identical to the constitutionally lawful Federal statute.
Instead of jumping to conclusions based on partial and bad information, why not read the law and the implementation language? Also ask the correct question - its not about citizenship, its about legal residence. Those are different things - you lose your argument when you start arguing about the wrong things, and are ignorant of the facts of the matter..
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo! http://goo.gl/J9bkO
It's not like no one has thought about what might go wrong with a plan like this in the past.
---
"I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
Being an illegal foreigner doesn't prevent one from paying taxes. In fact, many illegal aliens pay taxes, based on the false social security numbers given to their employers.
There are problems with illegal aliens in general, and more specific problems with the vast majority in the country:
1) The federal government has no control over their entry. Like many nations, the US bars entry by convicted felons, terrorists, etc. These people can be perfectly nice to their neighbors, pay taxes, etc. They're still not the sort of folks I want as neighbors.
2) A certain minimum command of the English language is a requirement for citizenship in the US. Legal non-citizen immigrants need not speak English, but generally have sufficient income or are staying for a brief enough time that economic factors are not an issue. Many, if not a majority of illegal immigrants speak little to no English, and as a result of this and their immigration status, cannot get jobs doing anything but minimum (or below minimum) wage menial labor.
3) Even if these people have employers who give lip service to the rules and pay employment taxes (and many do not), those taxes are a tiny fraction of the cost of providing social services for these workers - almost none of whom will ever pay income taxes (the bottom 40+% of income earners in the US now pay none). In fact, those that have social security numbers and file tax returns actually cost the government tax money, since thanks to our tax code they can get "refunds" greater than the amount of money they paid in.
4) In numbers, they strain the social services of anywhere they live. Since they almost never have health insurance, they use the nearest hospital's ER for all their health care needs - for which they rarely pay. Hospitals in areas with large numbers of illegal immigrants tend to go out of business for this reason, and legal residents and citizens find it difficult to get emergency care. Schools too have a difficult time - not only because the tax base does not support the extra children, but also because many of those children also speak little or no English - and additional resources must be emplaced to teach English as a second language.
5) In places where the local government is not willing to step on federal toes in immigration matters, illegals tend to get a free pass when they commit anything but the most violent crimes. If released before trial, they simply do not appear in court. They have few assets in country, so fines mean nothing. If deported, they pay a mule to get them back across the border - often in a matter of weeks.
6) Given the economic differences between the US and Mexico (from which the majority of our illegals come), they tend to spend a bare minimum of their money here, and send the rest out of country, where it is worth more to their families. So in addition to paying less in taxes than the social services they use cost, they don't even add much to the economy.
7) Illegals form a ready made class of people to be exploited, since they are afraid to go to the police. This attracts criminals, who prey not only on the illegals, but on legal residents and citizens as well.
8) Illegal immigrants very often do not wish to be Americans. They are here to exploit our economy and send the money home. Evidence of this can be found anywhere you see a rally regarding immigration reform, and see all the flags of foreign nations (usually Mexico, but sometimes others) being waved. If they wanted to be Americans, they could start by respecting our traditions (rather than demanding they be changed for their convenience), and our laws.
but the federal government has virtually abrogated its responsibility by poor enforcement of existing immigration laws.
The problem here isn't that the Feds don't enforce the law.
I visit a friend in Bisbee, AZ once a year and you can't swing a dead cat on the road between Bisbee & Sierra Vista without hitting a half-dozen Border Patrol vehicles. It's not unusual to see handcuffed illegals sitting on horse trailers or the side of the road during enforcement sweeps. And all this is on one 20 minute stretch of road! There's a manditory (even for US citizens, which frosts me) Border patrol checkpoint (featuring paramilitary fatigues, machine guns, dogs, humvees, the whole movie) in Tombstone on the "main" route north to the Interstate.
The problem is LOCAL GOVERNMENTS don't or won't or BAN the enforcement of immigration laws. There's two main reasons that crop up:
o Local police are short on resources and getting "tied up" in immigration enforcement is an unfunded mandate that hurts policing.
o It's claimed that enforcing immigration prevents cooperation with the police among immigrant groups (many red herrings here!).
The former is a bureaucratic dodge, but almost seems justifiable; I don't know what kind of clusterfuck it is to process an illegal immigrant for the local police -- is it a 20 minute handover to the Feds? Or do they have to house and feed them until the Feds get around to transfering them to Federal custody?
The second point doesn't make sense -- documented immigrants have no reason not to cooperate with the police, illegals do -- their illegal status! Part of the reason I think police go along with it is that areas with a high concentration of illegals have major crime and gang problems and police believe that illegal immigration is less of a worry than the spillover of crime.
The common reality though, is that many of these municipalities are Democratic strongholds and they view immigration reform through a narrow prism as racist and view stopping immigration enforcement as some kind of political score they're settling against racist country club Republicans. Most of the time the practical justification has little to do with the primary ideological motivation.
It used to read "I disagree with APK", an OUTRAGEOUS LIBEL that was PROVEN FALSE by Firefox's developers themselves
Re: I disagree by clone5341 (#38313910)>
I AM the law.
As you can see from Firefox, clone53421's comments are an outrage and a vicious libel that he keeps repeating by not changing his signature as I have demanded many times.
From: p.grimes@mozilla.org
Subject: Bugzilla #132719
Looks like this one's fixed. Anyone mind if I check it into the trunk? This should ensure the refresh button renders with the correct color under KDE
clone53421's LIES are EXPOSED by Opera and Mozilla! clone53421 you are not fooling anyone by posting as AC and under your numerous SOCK PUPPETS like CmdrTaco, Pudge, Perens, WillWheaton61, BadAnalogyGuy, tomhudson, Profane Mutherfucka, and LordBodak.
Forgot one point on #8 - Evidence of this can also be found at any check cashing place or Western Union office - or anywhere else in the US that allows wire transfers of money. You'll find instructions in Spanish on how to wire money out of the country to Mexico
You know, I hear this argument fairly often, and I still consider it really f*cking stupid. I'm from Canada, but we hear the same B.S. here, so let's get a few things straight:
a) There were no immigrations laws at that time. You can't be illegal if there's no fucking laws to break.
b) Yes, lots of terrible things happened, it doesn't mean that every "white man" shot a dozen indians in order to make claim on the "new world." Some did, but saying that all did is like saying all Germans are Nazis.
c) My ancestors moved here quite sometime after the early colonial days. They weren't trapping beavers and shooting natives, they came as legal immigrants to help do thinks like work mines, build railroads, etc
d) I work born in my home country, again legally, as a citizen.
So how the hell would you classify me as an immigrant? Also, as many people here have stated, it's not immigrants that are the problem (hell, my GF is one), it's illegal immigrants that functions as part of an essentially "underground society" because they aren't supposed to be there. This law unfortunately may have some affect on non-illegals too, which is the part that is stupid and sucks (and needs to be fixed, IMHO), but we don't need to bring the "white man who killed and pillaged" arguments around to deal with that.
Seriously. I have never to my knowledge harmed any indigenous person, but some people expect me to pay and/or feel guilty for it. While indigenous people's may warrant some support for those events that occurred, I myself deserve neither the debt of blame, guilt, nor any other exorbitant costs associated with such.
H1-B is the most ridiculous part of the immigration system. It needs to be abolished so US workers can get US jobs. I hope ALL you furry foreigners STAY OUT of Arizona!!!!
This particular law is severely flawed and will cost Arizona dearly in civil rights lawsuit payouts if it ever goes into effect. But Arizona residents are in their rights to be upset with federal immigration policy. The feds have essentially closed the borders on both sides of the state causing an through Arizona that this small state is completely unable to cope with. They can't be and shouldn't be expected to hire the law enforcement needed to deal with the migration. These migrants don't settle in Arizona and pay taxes, they move through it on their way to places with an excess of jobs and pay their taxes there.
The problem on the federal level is that there is no consensus among the American people on immigration. I believe migration is a human right that should only be curtailed when there is a compelling state interest, for instance the state has a compelling interest to prevent foreign troop movements within it's territory. But this founders' view hasn't been the consensus view for over a hundred years. People with money tend to also believe in open borders because it creates jobs and keeps the economy strong, whether or not they believe migration is a human right. But there are many people who don't believe migration is a human right and who also believe it deprives the descendants of earlier immigrants of good pay due to the increased competition for jobs. There is also a significant minority who are just plain racist; these are the folks who will make the Arizona approach fail, since some of them happen to be police officers. The problems in Arizona need to be solved at the federal level by debate and compromise between the reasonable people on both sides of the issue. But the politics of migration doesn't currently divide along party lines, there are still a few pro-business folks in the republican party and there are democrats with significant union support. And to be perfectly honest, there are is a small minority of racists serving in congress on both sides. The republican party has decided (rationally) that it is in the party's best interest at the moment not to pass any popular laws, as that would bolster the standing of our president and potentially hurt their chances in the mid-term elections. This may change after the mid-term elections, but I wouldn't bet on it; I believe only laws that have broad support in the democratic party are likely to pass until at least Obama's second term. By then republicans will have regrouped and started thinking about becoming the party of good government again, if only to have a chance to recapture the White House in 2017.
PS Arizona was a founded racism. It was the part of New Mexico that seceded from the United States as part of it's residents' fight for the right to keep slaves, which was at the time illegal in all of New Mexico. This was only 14 years after we conquered the territory in the Mexican-American war. It was a hinterland of the Mexican state of Alta California, which included present day California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, and Wyoming. Partly due to it's residents' history of betrayal to the USA and largely due to it's insignificant population prior the invention of modern air conditioning systems, it was the last State to be incorporated prior to Alaska and Hawaii.
...It is a side effect that I don't mind, as it leaves more opportunities for actual citizens.
I don't mind picking up the slack from people trying to boycott this law.
This law keeps on getting better every day.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
"For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person."
The specific wording is "Lawful Contact" ... which is not defined anywhere in that law, or in the entire AZ law code (I looked). So ... if a car is pulled over for a busted tail light, how far does that "lawful contact" entitle the LEO to start dewtermining? The driver, certainly. But then what? All the passengers? Some of the passengers? Just the swarthy guy in the sombrero?
And then there is this: where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States. How the heck can you tell the state of "unlawfully present"? What triggers suspicion? How do you tell an Arizonan who grew up in the barrio, from a family that was living here before the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo from someone who just arrived via the coyote express? What about the snowbacks from Canukistan, or the lutefisken who have "overstayed their visas" from the fjordlands? The only way to find them is to check everyone at every contact ... and the backlash from that will be amazing.
Where's the popcorn?
but only hear noise. There is a lot of speculation from slashdot users. Which i'm one of, but more importantly I believe I have a unique perspective on the situation. I actually live in Arizona, more importantly I lived on the border ( look at google maps for Douglas, Az then street view for 1st street, pick any corner and you will see how far I lived from the border, I could spit across it). I lived in Douglas for more than a decade in my youth, and currently reside in Tucson. The rancher that was killed, we knew his family personally. It's easy to point fingers and take a position and speculate on what should be done when you don't live any where near where it's happening. This is a complicated situation, i'm on the fence about it. I want to protect my country and it's citizens but not at the price of sacrificing our personal liberties and civil rights. Also, imagine what the foreign nationals must be thinking to consider crossing the border which could take 5 days or more without water, in 120 degree blistering heat with children less than 5 years old. It's basically a suicide march, and yet they chose to do it because conditions in their home country are far worse - the rancher that was killed (a family friend), he always helped immigrants with giving them food and water, which is illegal if you didn't know, and it shouldn't be, their human and it should never be illegal helping a dieing man, woman, or child. However, in the same train of thought, some of these illegals aren't searching for a better life, some of them are only crossing the border to leave drugs or other illegal items, then they return back across the border or allow themselves to be caught to be returned back to their country of origin for free by our Customs Border and Protection agency. Also, DON'T be IGNORANT and think all illegal immigrants are MEXICAN, their not, there from china and pakistan and russia and south american countries. This is the reason why were trying to protect our border.
Of all the things I've lost; I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain
How could this not be?
Random person: hi
Cop: I need to see your proof of legal immagration
Random person: but I am a citizen
Cop: right...
At this point you either run the risk of letting an illegal off the hook or wrongly holding a US citizen, there is no way to enforce this law without doing the latter. Which is why I oppose this law.
Maybe if you would educate yourself about what minorities actually think about illegal immigration your racist opinions would change...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
As a white foreigner who's lived for extended periods in both Japan and China (which also requires non-citizens to carry documentation), I can attest that you are likely treated with respect and deference in most social situations, by citizens and police alike. (Unless, of course, you're black, or the "wrong" kind of Asian).
Your experience is in no way analogous to an immigrant or citizen of color in the US, and especially not that of a Latino in Arizona. Where you are generally presumed to be a legal visitor, likely educated and wealthy, a dark-skinned, Spanish speaking person in AZ is often presumed to be criminal, uneducated and poor. It's a world of difference.
I say good on ya, AZ. I don't get into the dinghy without my drivers license, at least. Always, I carry some sort of identification. In my case, I live on a boat on a mooring. IF I should succumb to the water around me, I want someone to be able to tell (my few) family and friends that I'm no longer able to attend their parties.
I may not surrender this document upon request; that's situational, but I always have some sort of identity on me. I can't see why this should be a problem for anyone else. Got a pocket? Make a packet of what you are required by law and common sense to carry.
I carry a little waterproof bag with wallet, knife, Fischer pen, cell phone, keys to the USPS box and storage, chap stick, cigs and lighter(s) with me always. This pouch is attached to me until I get ashore. Then I transfer some of the stuff to pockets and carry on.
As for 'undocumented aliens' being here, get the legal paperwork, folks, or get the hell out of my country! It isn't hard to get legal status. Jumping the border is illegal. This is a constitutional republic; that's how it works here. Get legal and then keep yer head down.
Bah! I'm going fishing. Ya'll care about those other things....
Offhand, I'd say that this illegal alien must be using someone else's SSN to gain said employment. Where did he get it? Since most people don't want to share theirs with someone else, there's a good chance that it's stolen. Now, since this guy is completely imaginary anyway, lets further suppose that in order to get to this respectable job, he buys a car, in the process taking out a loan, again using this SSN. I imagine a bank account, a few credit cards, all the usual stuff that someone who has a respectable job does. Then, disaster strikes, layoff. Our intrepid hero is unable to find work right away (like many legal residents), and falls behind on his car payments, racks up credit-card late fees, falls behind on the rent leading to an eviction. Oddly, Rich Smith, living 500 miles away, is somewhat unhappy when he looks at his credit report, which lists all of these things, and finds that he can no longer take loans himself because his credit rating has dropped like a rock.
Our intrepid adventurer though, is free to start over, walking away from this debt, and picks up a new SSN because the old one just doesn't work that well for him anymore.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
Is that everyone is talking about the Arizona law and no one is talking about the path that led to them creating this law.
Some think it was a failure of our Federal government.
Some think it was hype FUD from media in Arizona.
I don't know, but I would rather see a discussion about this and gain more insight into why Arizona felt they had to take these actions.
I talked with an Arizona resident and they indicated that a lot of the swing for support began when a rancher was killed in Arizona by illegal aliens.
Well here in Texas we had a serial killer that was an illegal alien and currently have a freaking war going on a stones throw (literally) from a border city.
I think if we don't start understanding what motivates the populace to support these actions we are going to have more laws passed, more actions taken.
he law carefully avoids requiring a "REALLY good reason" by avoiding the words "probable cause."
What? Did you even read the law?
If you have, please revisit Article 8, Paragraph E:
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.
Emphasis mine.
Extra text to satisfy the lameness filter:
"Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum."
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
It may be better to compare this to something more familiar: disclosure of found system vulnerabilities. The generally accepted path when you discover a particularly nasty one is to inform the company responsible and give them reasonable time to come up with a fix before publishing your findings. If the company decides to blow it off, you've done your due diligence, publish your findings and let them deal with the fallout.
In this case, border states have a vulnerability, and they feel they have pleaded with the responsible party to apply some kind of fix and further feel that their requests have been largely ignored. So they went ahead and forced the issue.
Whether you agree with their actions or not, they have made the whole country stop and think about how to properly handle immigration, which all sides can agree is currently defunct.
The states run the presidential elections, which choose the state electors, who then choose the president. Any state has the power, I'd say the duty, to ensure candidates are qualified before allowing them on the state's ballots.
The tired argument of having to carry ID is pitiful. On an average day (every day) I have three photo IDs on me, a drivers license, motorcycle license and a concealed carry permit. I also carry a copy of my social security card separately, since my state does not put the SSN on any license it issues. If you got your wallet, you should have ID on you. I work in a Federal agency, so there's a fourth photo ID. Everyone should know their SSN, but the number of people I bust on phone calls requesting info by claiming they're someone else is astounding. Every other country in the world has tighter ID requirements than the US. Just enforce the laws as written, Federal or state and stop listening to the whining. political correctness, kumbaya crowd.
From what I read in the debate clone was having with the ac apk, the Germany versus FireFox article was closed earlier than usual for starters with a duration of only 12 days which is, quite short compared to others here typically. That article was in regards to problems in Firefox 3.6, where Germany said to avoid using Firefox 3.6 as they had for IE before that, but never for Opera. Clone53421 then said Germany did say to avoid Opera (they never did though) and then clone53412 used very old security issue data from Opera 9.23 iirc as his current proof of Opera bugs, and Opera was at 10.51 at the time of this article and had 10.52 builds available which apk pointed out (both the latter showing 0 unpatched known security vulnerabilities in those current builds, whereas Firefox had 2-3 noted below). APK then suspected the article was closed early, and that was because Firefox had yet another bug waiting in the wings and the mods here stumbled upon that, and closed the thread early before he could post what would have put clone53421 away cleanly enough, in that Firefox is showing more security issues lately than Opera is. That last DOM issue that turned up on the last day (04/06/2010 iirc) of that very article here on Firefox 3.6 in turn caused the Firefox build 3.6.3 to be issued and if the article had stayed open per its usual duration, clone53421 would have been floored basically in his premises that Firefox is as secure as Opera typically is which, it clearly is not. I must admit that the ac apk had a strong point on the article closing 2-5 days or more early when it allowed clone to use a technicality in that Timothy the article poster put up a quote from his source that Firefox 3.6.2 would be issued a month later, and in fact, it was issued the next day after the article released here. That made apk look misinformed by Timothy's article which was true but clone53421 threw it into apk's face, and before apk could post about Firefox 3.6.3 having to issue, yet again to cover yet another security bug in FF's DOM? The mods here closed the article. Then clone53421 called apk a spyware maker when he clearly is not (he put up some nice things he'd done like having his ideas and work place at Microsoft's Tech Ed 2 years in a row and he'd also noted a security guide he wrote that is the first and oldest online for Windows users that has users of it showing bulletproof operation for years at a stretch with no downtime) and when the facts on that came out as well as about the Windows IT pro article where apk had proved that memory optimizers can restore halted exchange servers that freeze due to memory fragmentation and he used microsoft's own data to prove that there. clone53421 was libelling the man and for that I do not blame him for being pissed off. I would be as well. At least clone53421 cut the crap with the signature stuff once it was pointed out to he that his good faith belief in the bull he was saying was in fact, bull.
It's not clear that California license, such as the one I carry, will do the job... #4 under the heading you're probably reading to support the assertion a driver's license is all you need is worded strangely, and seems to refer to applications to Arizona state agencies rather than officers. An officer may be within the law refusing to recognize an out-of-state license as proof.
An out-of-state visitor is also unlikely to have things like a birth certificate or social security card on them if for some reason a license isn't accepted. The question is... what do they do then?
Tweet, tweet.
This sucks for people on work visas. I don't know how to say that better. For citizens who want to ensure they don't get too screwed by this, GET YOUR PASSPORT. (Can permanent residents get passports too? I hope so...) Make sure you and your loved ones know where it is; consider making a photocopy so they can fax that, too.
While I sympathize with Arizona residents who are fed up with illegal immigration, this policy is one that makes me want to never visit your state. Sorry.
They CANNOT walk up to a random person on the street and check their immigration status.
While the law doesn't grant statutory authority for officers to begin contact by requiring someone to show documentation without reasonable suspicion, you have to remember that police are largely free to do anything any citizen can do. That includes initiating conversation with someone and even asking probing questions. Many officers are trained to question people in ways that elicit answers which increase an officer's options under the law, and they get a chance to practice extensively. This, incidentally, is why it's generally a good idea to not talk to the police, but as officers will tell you, most people do anyway (heck, I'm familiar with the issue and my general impulse is to treat officers like other people and just talk to them).
In practice, an officer might see someone they wish to target, whether for completely legit reasons or shady ones, engage them in conversation, ask them where they're from, what they do for a living, and where they were born, and if during the answers the suspect says anything the officer can justify as even thinly "reasonably suspicious," then the officer can probably ask for proof of citizenship without fear of repercussion (even if his justification doesn't meet a standard a judge holds up in court, what's going to happen to the officer?).
Tweet, tweet.
As a US citizen, I am required to have my id for identification, yet that's not a "papers, please" law?
The government will soon be asking every American "healthcare papers, please" yet that's not a police state?
This law is in place because the federal government refuses to enforce the current immigration laws.
the reason this law is getting so much negative attention is because it makes the President look bad
Which President?
to have states enact laws to enforce federal laws that aren't being enforced.
Have ICE/INS had their resources limited, or been ordered to stand down?
Tweet, tweet.
Let's see how long you last when being followed by a cop that has it in for you. Especially if he's willing to lie, like more than enough cops are.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
All it will take is one youtube video to prove you wrong. Sit back and wait. I give you 2 months max. Add the link to my comment on your calendar and come back and tell me I'm wrong then. I think I'm being generous.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Every American I know keeps their passport ON them when they are legally in a foreign country. Most states require some form of state approved ID for persons over a certain age to be presented when asked by law enforcement. For said IDs, social security numbers are required, ergo you must be a US citizen. Whether not it's legal to just ask for ID is a separate argument. Search and seizure without a warrant is already broken. In many states if you violate some law while in a motor vehicle, your car can be searched without a warrant. If you refuse you can be arrested and your vehicle searched anyway.
The answer isn't just "Let's ignore problems because the system is fucked up."
I don't think he said "ignore the problem." I suspect he (along with the rest of us) would be happy to see the INS adequately organized and funded. The issue in play at the moment is whether local police officers have a legal means to completely disrupt the lives of people who may be legit (citizens and legal immigrants) but not currently carrying everything they need to assuage any concerns about their citizenship.
They don't seem to want to forward solutions,
There's no shortage of other solutions forwarded, including generally increased immigration (which would help us offset some demographic problems associated with the boomers) and penalties for people who hire illegals ($1000 a pop, Arizona? Seriously? Why, that'd bring the $1500 you were paying a migrant for three months of labor before you were caught up to $2500, which means you'd end up paying roughly minimum wage. What a strong deterrent!). Instead we seemed to end up with something that focuses on immediate detention of people who for whatever reason aren't carrying their documentation.
Tweet, tweet.
Way more Circle-K stores in AZ...
Japan does this already; people are required to carry their foreigner ID cards or passports while they're in the country. Failure to be able to present them can lead to a visit to the police station or jail. Some areas have lots of people who report being checked for absolutely no apparent reason at all; foreigners in other areas have never experienced this.
As well as most of the world that has come under European influence. Since at least WWII, See all those TV shows and movies where the cop says "Your papers please"? What do you think he's asking for?
There used to be a common and ridiculous situation where a van full of obvious illegals, no ids, no english, would be stopped and as long as they weren't caught in the act of crossing the border and as long as the driver had a valid license, the cops couldn't do anything.
"Ridiculous"?! I find this to be a common and sensible situation.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I'm not going to take the time to make these clickable, because if you're not willing to copy and paste, you only prove my point that you are avoiding news reports about reality:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-arrest_24met.ART.State.Edition1.4c46a6a.html Gee, funny how they didn't get recorded.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/04/22/2031222/Seattle-Hacker-Catches-Cops-Who-Hid-Arrest-Tapes?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+(Slashdot)&utm_content=Google+Reader - yeah, camera didn't help him, did it?
Not directly related, but, uh, cops can lie, and this law is going to target pedestrians as much as drivers: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100409_11_A17_Aforme19933
Did a camera save this lady, even though the court admits she broke no law? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/pregnant_woman_tasered/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wired/index+(Wired:+Index+3+(Top+Stories+2))&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
Wake up, man. I got all these stories from the first 3 pages of my own link collection at http://delicious.com/clintjcl/abuseofauthority ... If I went through all 76 pages of my link collection, I'd have a litany of examples showing that your attitude is not at all realistic. If I expanded my search beyond those stories I've personally read, I'd have even more.
Go ahead and make an ad hominem attack about my comments on the links. It's kind of what I expect at this point.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Just because something is illegal does not make it a crime.
You are also legally required to have your DL on you while driving, but you're not a criminal if you don't. Jaywalking is illegal and is not a crime. Need I continue ?
#4 actually reads differently:
I read that as applying to situations in which you're attempting to get something (probably ID, a permit, or a license) from an Arizona state agency. I also don't think it's particularly clear that "State" means "any U.S. State" rather than "the state of Arizona."
Overall, I don't think it's clear that any ol' driver's license will do the job.
Tweet, tweet.
If one enters a country without following said country's entry and immigration laws, one is an illegal alien. In many other countries, it is a criminal offense.
The real problem is that said illegal alien entered the country illegally. As someone else mentioned, said person may be nice to his landlord and neighbors and still be a wanted criminal, a child molester, or carrying a contagious disease. How often do you see a surprised friend and/or neighbor on the news saying "He was such a nice guy. I can't believe he did that." If we want to go down the road of terrorism, remember that according to reports the 9/11 conspirators were good neighbors and tenants.
Now, let me demonstrate the fallacy of your argument:
Do you see the problem with "supposing"? Even if you point to a specific person, it is still cherry-picking.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
A "REALLY good reason" and a reasonable suspicion aren't necessarily the same thing.
you'd better believe it'll be the first question out of the court appointed lawyer's mouth.
If you're not a citizen, do you get a day in court and a court-provided lawyer?
If you do... after you've been in jail for a few days or weeks, what happens to the officer whose suspicion doesn't turn out to be "reasonable" by court standards... vs what happens to you while you're in jail?
Tweet, tweet.
It does not just makes an effort to enforce the law, it (appears to me, will see how it actually gets applied) adds penalties, at least detention/arrest, even for US citizens !
B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
So an American could be detained for 'reasonable suspicion' unless they carry their papers (at least until the status is verified); moreover
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.
It would seem to me that an *American* could be arrested just for not having/presenting their papers, since that could be construed as probable cause ... that hasn't been in federal law.
Before you pacifist eggheads mock AZ as Nazis, Commies, etc., you have to understand the people of AZ are actually LIVING with the massive problems they have there now due to uncontrolled immigration from 3rd world countries.
The crime and other problems they are having are massive folks. The 3rd world is marching northward - wake up!
The main problem is that, in the US, people are NOT required to carry Ids, or even to obtain them (of course, having them makes your life much easier); it is considered (I think) one of the guarantees in the constitution; in many other countries you have to register with the govt, and carry a national Id; not here, and that's the big issue.
I agree that 'In general, the police have better things to do than walk around randomly asking people for their papers.'; however, I see a big potential for abuse; some US citizens will encounter some cops who happen to be SOBs, and they will have trouble if they don't carry enough documentation (or they want to mess up with those cops :). I don't live in Arizona, and don't plan to visit it; if I lived there, I'd make sure to carry my license, but I'd also try to look for other places to move to :)
Actually your remarks seep cognitive dissonance. The current AZ law is based on xenophobia. If you feel its not, please explain. Why or how are undocumented immigrants causing an issue for your day to day life (and anyone you know). Are you in the construction business? farming? landscaping? mexican restauranting? meat packing? Are you just afraid of the gangbangers ala Latin Kings, MS-1234567, etc? What is it that has you kids so afraid of the hard working sob that speaks better spanish than english? Do you think they are the cause of some issue with your health care provider?
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
When I'm visiting other countries (Mexico, UK and Japan mainly) I don't walk around with my Passport. I leave my passport in the safe back at my hotel room and only carry around my CA DL, the cash I plan to spend immediately and a credit card for unexpected purchases or for an emergency. I guess I've been breaking the laws in those countries; better think twice about carrying my passport.
"In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change" --Thich Nhat Hanh
I live in AZ. We've had two drop houses within a stones throw of my home, in a gated community no less.
People come to the USA for work and a better life. There are jobs here. The immigration laws we have are the problem. They interfere with capitalism, which relies oddly enough on a labor pool.
Open the border and free up the border patrol and law enforcement to go after the bad guys, and not the gardeners.
And don't get me started on the drug laws that are fueling the border violence. 50,000 deaths from alcohol a year, and never one ever from pot. De-criminalize and save us all some pain.
Our pols out here in AZ just needed something to divert attention from the real issues, like how broke we are, and how they spent all the money from the boom years and didn't save a dime.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go mow my own lawn. "Honey, where do we keep the lawn mowing machine?"
Hey asshat, quit falsely quoting people. This anonymous coward quoted clone’s signature and it did NOT say anything remotely resembling what you just said.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1631422&cid=31994918
It’s very hard to say, actually. I have no idea what could be offensive or libelous about my current sig. In fact, I’m sure it isn’t.
Oh, and pretending you’re not apk? Yeah, it isn’t working.
Oh, and posting anonymously pretending to be me? Yeah, that isn’t working either.
Oh, and replying to your anonymous posts accusing them (you) of being me? ... Still not working.
Hopefully that gives you something entertaining to do all day long, though. You obviously have nothing better to do.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Thank you both... I agree that my statement was meant to provoke a response, but this is a political story, so almost any good comment should. I wouldn't quite call this flamebait, though. That's a bit too far. Boo on whoever labeled this as such. Some things in this country are nothing short of upsetting. I think it is very important to communicate these things with others and get input. I think that the tax situation in this country needs major reform... but as with almost any laws, they're next to impossible to make major changes since no matter what you do, someone will be there to bitch about how they're getting the short end of the stick... again, mostly people with waaaaay to much money, and in-turn, power. Don't even get me started on drug laws... yea, let's jail people as if they're violent criminals. These people are suffering mental and/or physiological conditions, and the best we can do is dehumanize them, take everything from them, and say it's better to take some horrible pharmaceutical or to "just deal with it".
You seem to think a year is a long time in really almost any court case, much less one that encompasses an entire police department and last month was expanded to include the county attorneys office. Just wait, it's coming, the only downside is that he'll go to a federal pen and not one of his gulags. As for the why he had his authority removed, and I realize this is a stretch of brain power for the avg 96.4 PHX IQ, but maybe, just maybe its because what he was doing is illegal. You know illegal isn't a race right?
Absolutely. The immigration issue would end tomorrow if a felony charge for hiring illegals applied to businesses and individuals alike. Direct your anger to your local and federal elected representatives. Wonder why Arizona didn't enforce THAT law instead...?
There are illegal immigrants in the US because everyone from rich people to meatpacking companies like to exploit cheap labor. It also provides a straw man for the right to knock down over and over again. At the end of the day, who's gonna weed whack your lawn if there's a $50,000 fine for hiring illegals and they all left to find work elsewhere?
Ask Me About... The 80's!
The general tone in these comments gives the impression that the people here understand the issue much better than the uninformed masses spouting cable news rhetoric. A few days ago I was unintentionally an audience to such unmitigated ignorance and was feeling very angry and disappointed in people who called themselves Americans, but I'm glad to know that people of greater intelligence are far more understanding and compassionate.
I lived in AZ for the last eight years and during that time I was burglarzied twice by illegal mexicans and our car broken into once but that one was never caught. I hear stories all the time of the illegals burglarizing our homes and raping our women. Too many soft laws on illegal alien crimes has caused the problem to run out of control and the end result has been thousands and thousands of victims of crime from illegal aliens (mexicans). There is a good reason this law was put into effect and I'm hoping things will begin to change for the better as we (hopefully) begin to finally get rid of some of the bad elements in the state. The law surely won't get rid of them all but I'm hoping it will help alleviate some of the crimes being committed by all the mexicans.
Well lets HOPE President Obama doesn't go driving through Arizona and get pulled over !!!!
I wonder if the Arizona courts would accept a CLB certificate as proof of citizenship???
FragHARD or don't frag at all
Here is a cut of what apk posted in that debate with you. Have you done the same, clone53421?
Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61
(&, for work done for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com on PAID CONTRACT (writing portions of their SuperCache program increasing its performance by up to 40% via my work) albeit, for their SuperDisk & HOW TO APPLY IT, took them to a finalist position @ MS Tech Ed, two years in a row 2000-2002, in its HARDEST CATEGORY: SQLServer Performance Enhancement).
WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)
PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there
WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there
PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there
CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there
GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" 2000, where my work is contained in it
HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), 2001 my work is there, first one featured, yet again!
Also, a British PC Mag in 2002 for many utilities I wrote, saw it @ BORDERS BOOKS but didn't buy it... by that point, I had moved onto other areas in this field besides coding only...
Lastly, being paid for an article that made me money over @ PCPitstop in 2008 for writing up a guide that has people showing NO VIRUSES/SPYWARES & other screwups, via following its point, such as THRONKA sees here -> http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ee926d913b81bf6d63c3c7372fd2a24c&t=28430&page=3
Clone53421, the more you libel and try to insult a person who actually does good things for others that others in the trade note as good that you have not and probably never will clone the more your mouth makes you look more the ass.
Actions speak louder than words clone. Most especially your libelling words.
Clone's reputation around here is going down the drain fast and thus clone53421 changed his signature from that which was quoted it seems. The way I see it after reading that outrageous debate is that clone53421 appears to have gotten a bit angry and did what a frustrated child would in that former signature of his and all because he blew it in a debate where Firefox 3.6 was shunned in Germany as was IE before it and Opera never was. Firefox 3.6 was shown to have 1 security vulnerability in the article here and despite the article poster Timonthy's mistake stating at the foot of his article that Firefox would fix it later this month (error on Timothy's part it seems) they fixed it the next day. Then Firefox issued 3.6.2, and in that same timeframe Firefox turned up that DOM security vulnerability error and this in turn forced a new build in 3.63. 3 security vulnerability issues in 1 week from Firefox looked bad for clone53421, and he had a tantrum and tried to libel the ac apk calling him all sorts of derogatory names inclusive of calling him a spyware maker. When the moderators here closed that thread far earlier than they usually do, and before apk could cite the latest firefox error that appeared on the last day that article could still be posted to, it only made clone and the mods here also look even more silly than his geek angst retaliation of his former signature did.
I read the reply here in this thread http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1631698&cid=32005616 [slashdot.org] and it said it all. clone53421 simply messed up and now he is having a tantrum by trying to libel others in his signature (which now has changed it seems).
clone53421's now posting as ac here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1631698&cid=32028158 and trying to defend himself that way I feel, and in doing so, he erred largely, by citing the laughingstock named Jeremy Reimer of arstechnica who attempted to impersonate, email harass, and libel this same ac apk in the same manner (bad move and here is why quoted in reply)
Jeremy Reimer he is a known troll http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273561&cid=28382013 and oddly enough he tried the same on the ac apk at Windows IT Pro magazine forums, after he impersonated the ac apk on his own personal forums to which you linked and apk nicely asked that he please remove the impersonation of himself which Reimer even admitted was not the ac apk.
That ended up with parts of Jeremy Reimer's website being removed by his hosting provider for libelling this ac apk that clone53421 lost that debate on firefox to, as well as Jeremy Reimer's being put on a tracking ticket by his isp shaw of canada for email harassing apk which Reimer then promptly stopped because he was forced to.
Jeremy Reimer has no professional decades of experience in the sciences of computing so he brought in a 3rd rate visual basic coder named Jay Little to attack the ac apk on technical points there and when Jay Little stated "I am an exchange expert" is when the ac apk put up facts from Microsoft that showed that clearmem.exe a memory optimizer microsoft made can restart a stalled exchange server. This made Jay Little leave and try to attempt to discredit the ac apk on another forum called ntcompatible.com of which I am a member.
Jay Little blew it there on windows crash dump error codes and on ramdisk ssd usage which even another arstechnica member in dosfreak stated Jay Little was incorrect on.
This got Jay Little kicked out of ntcompatible.com for name calling like clone53421 does here as it did with Jay Little also being kicked out of Channel9 at Microsoft also. Jay Little then made death threats apk's way at petitiononline.com and on his own personal website at CrystalTech.com and like Reimer, Jay Little had his entire website removed by his hosting provider CrystalTech.com .
clone53421, you really need to cite a more credible source than Jeremy Reimer based on the above facts.
Sorry to disappoint you, but that was me, not Clone. And the only reason I've been posting AC is because I really don't want to be harassed by you as well, as you're evidently a nutcase, as seen here: http://www.jeremyreimer.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4128&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Come off of it - If you travel to other countries, you will be subject to inquiries and are usually required to show your passport for even simple transactions like getting a hotel room, boarding a flight, and more. In many countries, you will be targeted by regular requests to see the papers by police and other officials. You're targeted because you don't look like the natives. You show your papers and go on. It might be a pain, but a nation must control who is in the country and to at least some extent, what they're doing.
The Arizona bill has provisions to protect the natural rights of both citizens and noncitizens alike. In the course of LAWFUL CONTACT with state & local officials, you'll be asked for your papers if there is probably cause. That's the standard that already exists. There is nothing in the bill that would allow for stops based only on immigration status.
Don't buy into the fear mongering - Read the bill!
Most of the posts I have scanned have little or nothing to do with how the law applies to computers or there users. I hope this "outrage of the week" burns itself out soon so we can get back to the Linux vs Windows discussion. : )
No, you are not. Do you have a law degree and license to practice law?? No you do not. Have you done anything with your wasted life??? No obviously. Get a job as people have told you here all week, instead of posting on slashdot all day because it's better than listening to a wannabe like you who has no legal experience professionally in you, trying to play attorney online.
Jeremy Reimer is also a known troll http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273561&cid=28382013 [slashdot.org] and oddly enough he tried the same on the ac apk at Windows IT Pro magazine forums, after he impersonated the ac apk on his own personal forums to which you linked and apk nicely asked that he please remove the impersonation of himself which Reimer even admitted was not the ac apk.
That ended up with parts of Jeremy Reimer's website being removed by his hosting provider for libelling this ac apk that clone53421 lost that debate on firefox to, as well as Jeremy Reimer's being put on a tracking ticket by his isp shaw of canada for email harassing apk which Reimer then promptly stopped because he was forced to.
Jeremy Reimer has no professional decades of experience in the sciences of computing so he brought in a 3rd rate visual basic coder named Jay Little to attack the ac apk on technical points there and when Jay Little stated "I am an exchange expert" is when the ac apk put up facts from Microsoft that showed that clearmem.exe a memory optimizer microsoft made can restart a stalled exchange server. This made Jay Little leave and try to attempt to discredit the ac apk on another forum called ntcompatible.com of which I am a member.
Jay Little blew it there on windows crash dump error codes and on ramdisk ssd usage which even another arstechnica member in dosfreak stated Jay Little was incorrect on.
This got Jay Little kicked out of ntcompatible.com for name calling like clone53421 does here as it did with Jay Little also being kicked out of Channel9 at Microsoft also. Jay Little then made death threats apk's way at petitiononline.com and on his own personal website at CrystalTech.com and like Reimer, Jay Little had his entire website removed by his hosting provider CrystalTech.com .
clone53421, you really need to cite a more credible source than Jeremy Reimer based on the above facts.
Jeremy Reimer is a "pseudo-journalist" who had the police called on him (and more, like his ISP putting him on tracking tickets for email harassment and Reimer also had parts of his site removed by his hosting provider as well) for all of this & this is doubtless why arstechnica quit putting up his "so called articles" because they were plagiaristic crap from someone merely posing to know about computers (Reimer has no degrees or even certifications in computer sciences):
Jeremy Reimer he is a known troll http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273561&cid=28382013 [slashdot.org] and oddly enough he tried the same on the ac apk at Windows IT Pro magazine forums, after he impersonated the ac apk on his own personal forums to which you linked and apk nicely asked that he please remove the impersonation of himself which Reimer even admitted was not the ac apk.
That ended up with parts of Jeremy Reimer's website being removed by his hosting provider for libelling this ac apk that clone53421 lost that debate on firefox to, as well as Jeremy Reimer's being put on a tracking ticket by his isp shaw of canada for email harassing apk which Reimer then promptly stopped because he was forced to.
Jeremy Reimer has no professional decades of experience in the sciences of computing so he brought in a 3rd rate visual basic coder named Jay Little to attack the ac apk on technical points there and when Jay Little stated "I am an exchange expert" is when the ac apk put up facts from Microsoft that showed that clearmem.exe a memory optimizer microsoft made can restart a stalled exchange server. This made Jay Little leave and try to attempt to discredit the ac apk on another forum called ntcompatible.com of which I am a member.
Jay Little blew it there on windows crash dump error codes and on ramdisk ssd usage which even another arstechnica member in dosfreak stated Jay Little was incorrect on.
This got Jay Little kicked out of ntcompatible.com for name calling like clone53421 does here as it did with Jay Little also being kicked out of Channel9 at Microsoft also. Jay Little then made death threats apk's way at petitiononline.com and on his own personal website at CrystalTech.com and like Reimer, Jay Little had his entire website removed by his hosting provider CrystalTech.com .
clone53421, you really need to cite a more credible source than Jeremy Reimer based on the above facts.
Jeremy Reimer is a "pseudo-journallist" who had the police called on him for all of this:
Jeremy Reimer he is a known troll http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273561&cid=28382013 [slashdot.org] and oddly enough he tried the same on the ac apk at Windows IT Pro magazine forums, after he impersonated the ac apk on his own personal forums to which you linked and apk nicely asked that he please remove the impersonation of himself which Reimer even admitted was not the ac apk.
That ended up with parts of Jeremy Reimer's website being removed by his hosting provider for libelling this ac apk that clone53421 lost that debate on firefox to, as well as Jeremy Reimer's being put on a tracking ticket by his isp shaw of canada for email harassing apk which Reimer then promptly stopped because he was forced to. A detective Felton of British Columbia Canada was informed of it all also, and Reimer ceased his lunacy at that point.
Jeremy Reimer has no professional decades of experience in the sciences of computing so he brought in a 3rd rate visual basic coder named Jay Little to attack the ac apk on technical points there and when Jay Little stated "I am an exchange expert" is when the ac apk put up facts from Microsoft that showed that clearmem.exe a memory optimizer microsoft made can restart a stalled exchange server. This made Jay Little leave and try to attempt to discredit the ac apk on another forum called ntcompatible.com of which I am a member.
Jay Little blew it there on windows crash dump error codes and on ramdisk ssd usage which even another arstechnica member in dosfreak stated Jay Little was incorrect on.
This got Jay Little kicked out of ntcompatible.com for name calling like clone53421 does here as it did with Jay Little also being kicked out of Channel9 at Microsoft also. Jay Little then made death threats apk's way at petitiononline.com and on his own personal website at CrystalTech.com and like Reimer, Jay Little had his entire website removed by his hosting provider CrystalTech.com .
clone53421, you really need to cite a more credible source than Jeremy Reimer based on the above facts.
Jeremy Reimer is a "pseudo-journallist" who had the police called on him for all of this:
Jeremy Reimer he is a known troll http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273561&cid=28382013 [slashdot.org] and oddly enough he tried the same on the ac apk at Windows IT Pro magazine forums, after he impersonated the ac apk on his own personal forums to which you linked and apk nicely asked that he please remove the impersonation of himself which Reimer even admitted was not the ac apk.
That ended up with parts of Jeremy Reimer's website being removed by his hosting provider for libelling this ac apk that clone53421 lost that debate on firefox to, as well as Jeremy Reimer's being put on a tracking ticket by his isp shaw of canada for email harassing apk which Reimer then promptly stopped because he was forced to. A detective Felton of British Columbia Canada was informed of it all also, and Reimer ceased his lunacy at that point.
Jeremy Reimer has no professional decades of experience in the sciences of computing so he brought in a 3rd rate visual basic coder named Jay Little to attack the ac apk on technical points there and when Jay Little stated "I am an exchange expert" is when the ac apk put up facts from Microsoft that showed that clearmem.exe a memory optimizer microsoft made can restart a stalled exchange server. This made Jay Little leave and try to attempt to discredit the ac apk on another forum called ntcompatible.com of which I am a member.
Jay Little blew it there on windows crash dump error codes and on ramdisk ssd usage which even another arstechnica member in dosfreak stated Jay Little was incorrect on.
This got Jay Little kicked out of ntcompatible.com for name calling like clone53421 does here as it did with Jay Little also being kicked out of Channel9 at Microsoft also. Jay Little then made death threats apk's way at petitiononline.com and on his own personal website at CrystalTech.com and like Reimer, Jay Little had his entire website removed by his hosting provider CrystalTech.com .
clone53421, you really need to cite a more credible source than Jeremy Reimer based on the above facts.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1631698&cid=32039386
Take a read pussy -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1631698&cid=32041012 lmao. You're the kind of guy the jocks made do their homework, and then they fucked your beat ass bitch of a girlfriend and tossed her shabby ass to the curb, lol, each day of your pussy life.
I read all the little libel games you played, and you expect someone to just lie down and take it? Maybe a pussy like you, that's had that happen their whole life is used to it. Real men are not and will not endure it. Now, I actually won't post under my regular account here, because I also think you're nothing but a pussy as was said of you here already, and you seem to get off on bothering others with libel. I don't need a douchenozzle like you around, but I have a funny feeling that it's going to get so bad for you here, you will die of embarassment.
The funny part is that you used a source from a known troll and libeler yourself while you libeled that ac apk who actually has done some nice things from what I read and for others too. In fact I would actually bet you are this Jeremy Reimer scumbag from that site that's falling apart in arstechnica. That place is full of little pussies like you. Ever wonder why women won't go near you? Because you're a bigger pussy than they are.
As a snivelling little wuss, as a coward, and as a libeler of others. You're not too smart, are you? You've admitted to libeling the guy with photos and what not in your signature (whatever it probably was) and you are probably going to regret it.
clone53241, the pussy bullshit artist, attempting to play 'attorney online' lmao:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938
So sue him then, pussy. Go for it. I think that once your real name is known to those you libel you'll really be hurting then. Of course, no balls wimps like you are all talk.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32030852
Yes, there you are folks: Another episode above, of "clone53421, the internet lawyer" lol, you know - the one with no license to practice law and no law school either.
Even better is here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31743772 LOL, unbelieveable.
Clone53421's trying to play "jailhouse lawyer" now. So, tell us clone53421:
Do you have a license to practice law, libeler? Obviously not, or you wouldn't admit to libeling others here as you have -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32040320 and whoever called you a pussy here is dead on right. How can you live with yourself, pussy? Have you ever wondered why women won't even look at a so called male like you? It's because you're more of a woman than they are. Hope you like the embarassment libeler. It's probably not going to end and you'll have to live with it here, so have fun.
clone53241, the pussy bullshit artist, attempting to play 'attorney online' lmao:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938
So sue him then, pussy. Go for it. I think that once your real name is known to those you libel you'll really be hurting then. Of course, no balls wimps like you are all talk. After all, You're the one talking about "exercising legal options" pussy. Go for it. What an unbelieveable little scumbag weasel and pussy, libeler, and liar that likes to be the "pot calling the kettle black.
clone53241, the pussy bullshit artist, attempting to play 'attorney online' lmao:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938
So sue him then, pussy. Go for it. I think that once your real name is known to those you libel you'll really be hurting then. Of course, no balls wimps like you are all talk. After all, You're the one talking about "exercising legal options" pussy. Go for it. What an unbelieveable little scumbag weasel and pussy, libeler, and liar that likes to be the "pot calling the kettle black.
clone53241, the pussy bullshit artist, attempting to play 'attorney online' lmao:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938
So sue him then, pussy. Go for it. I think that once your real name is known to those you libel you'll really be hurting then. Of course, no balls wimps like you are all talk. After all, You're the one talking about "exercising legal options" pussy. Go for it. What an unbelieveable little scumbag weasel and pussy, libeler, and liar that likes to be the "pot calling the kettle black.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32040320 Read there, and see how this little weasel called clone53421 really operates. He lied to you, and he changed his libelous signature to something else because he's provided so many lies and so much ammo to launch a libel suit against him it is not even funny anymore. clone53421's either stupid, or touched in the head imo.
"In case you didn't already know this, changing your IP address to defeat Slashdot's anti-spam mechanism constitutes both fraudulently misrepresenting yourself (A CRIME, as I already told you) and also considered unauthorized access to a computer system (HACKING)." - by clone53421 (1310749) on Monday April 05, @08:25PM (#31743416)
I'll just quote the person you gave a hard time to over there on that because I am basically wondering the same and would like to see your proof too, thanks:
Oh, really? Care to show me a legal precedent OR ruling of that being the case, were I switching IP addresses to overcome the "10 posts per 24 hour limit" on AC users? I sign off as APK, so I am NOT "misrepresenting myself" here, in case you hadn't noticed, lol!
You also stated that YOU are being stalked? clone53421, you did the same to this very guy apk you were was bothering there and its stated from the outset.
Once more, clone53421 the bullshit artist with "legal options he can exercise" doesn't seem too credible, intelligent, and is a stalker of others himself. You are pitifully stupid clone54321, you know that? The very things you said the ac apk was doing to you, you do yourself and worse. Amazing, and you wonder why you are being shamed now like this? You had it coming. Jerks like you are what ruin the internet.
"In case you didn't already know this, changing your IP address to defeat Slashdot's anti-spam mechanism constitutes both fraudulently misrepresenting yourself (A CRIME, as I already told you) and also considered unauthorized access to a computer system (HACKING)." - by clone53421 (1310749) on Monday April 05, @08:25PM (#31743416)
I'll just quote the person you gave a hard time to over there on that because I am basically wondering the same and would like to see your proof too, thanks:
Oh, really? Care to show me a legal precedent OR ruling of that being the case, were I switching IP addresses to overcome the "10 posts per 24 hour limit" on AC users? I sign off as APK, so I am NOT "misrepresenting myself" here, in case you hadn't noticed, lol!
You also stated that YOU are being stalked? clone53421, you did the same to this very guy apk you were was bothering there and its stated from the outset.
Once more, clone53421 the bullshit artist with "legal options he can exercise" -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938 (ahem: *cough* "BULLSHIT" *cough*) doesn't seem too credible, intelligent, and is a stalker of others himself. You are pitifully stupid clone54321, you know that? The very things you said the ac apk was doing to you, you do yourself and worse. Amazing, and you wonder why you are being shamed now like this? You had it coming. Jerks like you are what ruin the internet.
"In case you didn't already know this, changing your IP address to defeat Slashdot's anti-spam mechanism constitutes both fraudulently misrepresenting yourself (A CRIME, as I already told you) and also considered unauthorized access to a computer system (HACKING)." - by clone53421 (1310749) on Monday April 05, @08:25PM (#31743416)
I'll just quote the person you gave a hard time to over there on that because I am basically wondering the same and would like to see your proof too, thanks:
Oh, really? Care to show me a legal precedent OR ruling of that being the case, were I switching IP addresses to overcome the "10 posts per 24 hour limit" on AC users? I sign off as APK, so I am NOT "misrepresenting myself" here, in case you hadn't noticed, lol!
You also stated that YOU are being stalked? clone53421, you did the same to this very guy apk you were was bothering there and its stated from the outset.
Once more, clone53421 the bullshit artist with "legal options he can exercise" -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938 (ahem: *cough* "BULLSHIT" *cough*) doesn't seem too credible, intelligent, and is a stalker of others himself. You are pitifully stupid clone54321, you know that? The very things you said the ac apk was doing to you, you do yourself and worse. Amazing, and you wonder why you are being shamed now like this? You had it coming. Jerks like you are what ruin the internet.
"In case you didn't already know this, changing your IP address to defeat Slashdot's anti-spam mechanism constitutes both fraudulently misrepresenting yourself (A CRIME, as I already told you) and also considered unauthorized access to a computer system (HACKING)." - by clone53421 (1310749) on Monday April 05, @08:25PM (#31743416)
I'll just quote the person you gave a hard time to over there on that because I am basically wondering the same and would like to see your proof too, thanks:
Oh, really? Care to show me a legal precedent OR ruling of that being the case, were I switching IP addresses to overcome the "10 posts per 24 hour limit" on AC users? I sign off as APK, so I am NOT "misrepresenting myself" here, in case you hadn't noticed, lol!
You also stated that YOU are being stalked? clone53421, you did the same to this very guy apk you were was bothering there and its stated from the outset.
Once more, clone53421 the bullshit artist with "legal options he can exercise" -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938 (ahem: *cough* "BULLSHIT" *cough*) doesn't seem too credible, intelligent, and is a stalker of others himself. You are pitifully stupid clone54321, you know that? The very things you said the ac apk was doing to you, you do yourself and worse. Amazing, and you wonder why you are being shamed now like this? You had it coming. Jerks like you are what ruin the internet.
"Nope, I changed my sig so that I could get nice screenshots (like the following) of APK claiming he could see a sig that didn't exist anymore" - by clone53421 (1310749)
on Thursday April 29, @11:24PM (#32040320)
See subject line. I demand proof. Prove it was this apk person you libeled all over these forums and lied about also clone54321. (Or, are you just libeling him more clone54321?). Your bullshit lies are making your rep here on slashdot fall apart the more you talk.
See subject and prove what you stated here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32040320 because I'd like to see proof that it was this apk person you have clearly libeled, trolled (through 3 different threads this past week), and lied about.
The ironically funniest part was how You clone54321 were shot down in your desperate attempt to discredit him, and you hilariously picked Jeremy Reimer from arstechnica who was busted with police being called on him for death threats to apk on Reimer's very website you used, which resulted in his forums having large tracts removed of that material and libel of apk (and his henchman below had 2 whole websites removed by CrystalTech.com), also for email harassing that apk fellow Reimer's ISP put him on a tracking ticket which made Reimer cease and desist the email harassment, impersonating him on his forums and when asked nicely to remove it?
Reimer then pursued apk to Windows IT Pro magazine with a "henchman" in a fat pig named Jay Little who said he was "an expert on Microsoft Exchange" where apk shot that down and Jay Little that obese hog with it, with proof from Microsoft themselves, using their own tty/console mode clearmem.exe app to show that due to memory fragmentation, Exchange servers are KNOWN to stall and what stops it? Memory Optimization programs. He also corrected 'the great russinovich''s work no less, a PHD, who hardcoded paths in his apps (a rookie move) and he ended up thanking apk for it, and lastly, apk predicted VISTA would fail, due to memory and caching (which it did on file copies and the fix? Alter caching in the memmgt section of the registry, here -> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/920739 ).
So much for PHD's, because as was said in "the serpent and the rainbow'? Mozart could give any Harvard PhD a run for his money. Not only did apk give Dr. Mark Russinovich a "run for his money", he outright floored him in the end there. Did you really think you could outthink and outfox that person?
You tried to on firefox 3.6's bug where Germany said to avoid firefox like they did for IE earlier, but never for opera, and you said they did, lying. Unbelievable. Then, ff issued 3.62 to cover that, & oddly the mods on this forums closed that thread 2-5 or so days earlier than usual. Why? I suspect because the last day that thread was open, firefox turned up yet another unpatched security vulnerability, which would have iced you totally (even more than you were already being dusted there already) by showing that apk is correct that ff gets a lot more bugs than Opera ever does, and takes longer to patch them typically also.
So the usual result from you, is libel and name calling as you are doing here with your insinuations as you did here, you did there. You are too predictable troll (clone54321), and because of that, very simple to out think and out maneuver.
So all that aside after I read through all of this, I had to sound off here on it because you have done the same to me clone54321 you dirty troll. So, show us where apk said that please. It wouldn't really matter if he did because you did indeed libel him here on many accounts like calling him a spyware maker which I also would be steamed about were I he too, and much more, many more times.
Show us where apk said what I quote above. I get the feeling troll, er, I mean clone, will not do so (and he called others and apk crazy? Well lets see if clone's having his usual "convenient truths and hallucinations" shall we?).
However we'll see. If he can't put up, he ought to shut up and quit while he is behind already. He looks quite the fool with others calling him a douchenozzle here already, lol!
See subject and prove what you stated here also http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32040320 because I'd like to see proof that it was this apk person you have clearly libeled, trolled (through 3 different threads this past week), and lied about.
The ironically funniest part was how You clone54321 were shot down in your desperate attempt to discredit him, and you hilariously picked Jeremy Reimer from arstechnica who was busted with police being called on him for death threats to apk on Reimer's very website you used, which resulted in his forums having large tracts removed of that material and libel of apk (and his henchman below had 2 whole websites removed by CrystalTech.com), also for email harassing that apk fellow Reimer's ISP put him on a tracking ticket which made Reimer cease and desist the email harassment, impersonating him on his forums and when asked nicely to remove it?
Reimer then pursued apk to Windows IT Pro magazine with a "henchman" in a fat pig named Jay Little who said he was "an expert on Microsoft Exchange" where apk shot that down and Jay Little that obese hog with it, with proof from Microsoft themselves, using their own tty/console mode clearmem.exe app to show that due to memory fragmentation, Exchange servers are KNOWN to stall and what stops it? Memory Optimization programs. He also corrected 'the great russinovich''s work no less, a PHD, who hardcoded paths in his apps (a rookie move) and he ended up thanking apk for it, and lastly, apk predicted VISTA would fail, due to memory and caching (which it did on file copies and the fix? Alter caching in the memmgt section of the registry, here -> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/920739 ).
So much for PHD's, because as was said in "the serpent and the rainbow'? Mozart could give any Harvard PhD a run for his money. Not only did apk give Dr. Mark Russinovich a "run for his money", he outright floored him in the end there. Did you really think you could outthink and outfox that person?
You tried to on firefox 3.6's bug where Germany said to avoid firefox like they did for IE earlier, but never for opera, and you said they did, lying. Unbelievable. Then, ff issued 3.62 to cover that, & oddly the mods on this forums closed that thread 2-5 or so days earlier than usual. Why? I suspect because the last day that thread was open, firefox turned up yet another unpatched security vulnerability, which would have iced you totally (even more than you were already being dusted there already) by showing that apk is correct that ff gets a lot more bugs than Opera ever does, and takes longer to patch them typically also.
So the usual result from you, is libel and name calling as you are doing here with your insinuations as you did here, you did there. You are too predictable troll (clone54321), and because of that, very simple to out think and out maneuver.
So all that aside after I read through all of this, I had to sound off here on it because you have done the same to me clone54321 you dirty troll. So, show us where apk said that please. It wouldn't really matter if he did because you did indeed libel him here on many accounts like calling him a spyware maker which I also would be steamed about were I he too, and much more, many more times. Once MIGHT be excusable, as you were misinformed by that moron Thor Schrock, but apk told you he called CA's Greg Jensen and passed their 21 point test for malware removal, and though they did not remove his single app (of 50 or so online)? They had to downrate it to zero threat levels. Call him yourself, Mr. Informative (for what? self-modding himself up to +5 "informative" via alternate registered user account logons here? Clone's the type that does that because no way would 1 sentence above be a +5 on any sane forums, quite obviously). Fact is, he probably has a $200,000 libel suit possibility like he said because not only did CA
See subject and prove what you stated here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32040320 because I'd like to see proof that it was this apk person you have clearly libeled, trolled (through 3 different threads this past week), and lied about.
The ironically funniest part was how You clone54321 were shot down in your desperate attempt to discredit him, and you hilariously picked Jeremy Reimer from arstechnica who was busted with police being called on him for death threats to apk on Reimer's very website you used, which resulted in his forums having large tracts removed of that material and libel of apk (and his henchman below had 2 whole websites removed by CrystalTech.com), also for email harassing that apk fellow Reimer's ISP put him on a tracking ticket which made Reimer cease and desist the email harassment, impersonating him on his forums and when asked nicely to remove it?
Reimer then pursued apk to Windows IT Pro magazine with a "henchman" in a fat pig named Jay Little who said he was "an expert on Microsoft Exchange" where apk shot that down and Jay Little that obese hog with it, with proof from Microsoft themselves, using their own tty/console mode clearmem.exe app to show that due to memory fragmentation, Exchange servers are KNOWN to stall and what stops it? Memory Optimization programs. He also corrected 'the great russinovich''s work no less, a PHD, who hardcoded paths in his apps (a rookie move) and he ended up thanking apk for it, and lastly, apk predicted VISTA would fail, due to memory and caching (which it did on file copies and the fix? Alter caching in the memmgt section of the registry, here -> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/920739 ).
So much for PHD's, because as was said in "the serpent and the rainbow'? Mozart could give any Harvard PhD a run for his money. Not only did apk give Dr. Mark Russinovich a "run for his money", he outright floored him in the end there. Did you really think you could outthink and outfox that person?
You tried to on firefox 3.6's bug where Germany said to avoid firefox like they did for IE earlier, but never for opera, and you said they did, lying. Unbelievable. Then, ff issued 3.62 to cover that, & oddly the mods on this forums closed that thread 2-5 or so days earlier than usual. Why? I suspect because the last day that thread was open, firefox turned up yet another unpatched security vulnerability, which would have iced you totally (even more than you were already being dusted there already) by showing that apk is correct that ff gets a lot more bugs than Opera ever does, and takes longer to patch them typically also.
So the usual result from you, is libel and name calling as you are doing here with your insinuations as you did here, you did there. You are too predictable troll (clone54321), and because of that, very simple to out think and out maneuver.
So all that aside after I read through all of this, I had to sound off here on it because you have done the same to me clone54321 you dirty troll. So, show us where apk said that please. It wouldn't really matter if he did because you did indeed libel him here on many accounts like calling him a spyware maker which I also would be steamed about were I he too, and much more, many more times. Once MIGHT be excusable, as you were misinformed by that moron Thor Schrock, but apk told you he called CA's Greg Jensen and passed their 21 point test for malware removal, and though they did not remove his single app (of 50 or so online)? They had to downrate it to zero threat levels. Call him yourself, Mr. Informative (for what? self-modding himself up to +5 "informative" via alternate registered user account logons here? Clone's the type that does that because no way would 1 sentence above be a +5 on any sane forums, quite obviously). Fact is, he probably has a $200,000 libel suit possibility like he said because not only did CA do th
See subject and prove what you stated here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32040320 because I'd like to see proof that it was this apk person you have clearly libeled, trolled (through 3 different threads this past week), and lied about.
The ironically funniest part was how You clone54321 were shot down in your desperate attempt to discredit him, and you hilariously picked Jeremy Reimer from arstechnica who was busted with police being called on him for death threats to apk on Reimer's very website you used, which resulted in his forums having large tracts removed of that material and libel of apk (and his henchman below had 2 whole websites removed by CrystalTech.com), also for email harassing that apk fellow Reimer's ISP put him on a tracking ticket which made Reimer cease and desist the email harassment, impersonating him on his forums and when asked nicely to remove it?
Reimer then pursued apk to Windows IT Pro magazine with a "henchman" in a fat pig named Jay Little who said he was "an expert on Microsoft Exchange" where apk shot that down and Jay Little that obese hog with it, with proof from Microsoft themselves, using their own tty/console mode clearmem.exe app to show that due to memory fragmentation, Exchange servers are KNOWN to stall and what stops it? Memory Optimization programs. He also corrected 'the great russinovich''s work no less, a PHD, who hardcoded paths in his apps (a rookie move) and he ended up thanking apk for it, and lastly, apk predicted VISTA would fail, due to memory and caching (which it did on file copies and the fix? Alter caching in the memmgt section of the registry, here -> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/920739 ).
So much for PHD's, because as was said in "the serpent and the rainbow'? Mozart could give any Harvard PhD a run for his money. Not only did apk give Dr. Mark Russinovich a "run for his money", he outright floored him in the end there. Did you really think you could outthink and outfox that person?
You tried to on firefox 3.6's bug where Germany said to avoid firefox like they did for IE earlier, but never for opera, and you said they did, lying. Unbelievable. Then, ff issued 3.62 to cover that, & oddly the mods on this forums closed that thread 2-5 or so days earlier than usual. Why? I suspect because the last day that thread was open, firefox turned up yet another unpatched security vulnerability, which would have iced you totally (even more than you were already being dusted there already) by showing that apk is correct that ff gets a lot more bugs than Opera ever does, and takes longer to patch them typically also.
So the usual result from you, is libel and name calling as you are doing here with your insinuations as you did here, you did there. You are too predictable troll (clone54321), and because of that, very simple to out think and out maneuver.
So all that aside after I read through all of this, I had to sound off here on it because you have done the same to me clone54321 you dirty troll. So, show us where apk said that please. It wouldn't really matter if he did because you did indeed libel him here on many accounts like calling him a spyware maker which I also would be steamed about were I he too, and much more, many more times. Once MIGHT be excusable, as you were misinformed by that moron Thor Schrock, but apk told you he called CA's Greg Jensen and passed their 21 point test for malware removal, and though they did not remove his single app (of 50 or so online)? They had to downrate it to zero threat levels. Call him yourself, Mr. Informative (for what? self-modding himself up to +5 "informative" via alternate registered user account logons here? Clone's the type that does that because no way would 1 sentence above be a +5 on any sane forums, quite obviously). Fact is, he probably has a $200,000 libel suit possibility like he said because not only did CA do th
A nobody nothing that has never done anything useful with his time or life, and now you waste others time here on slashdot while you sit on public assistance no doubt. Give us a break troll. You were too easy to tear apart.
See subject and prove what you stated here http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1633414&cid=32040320 because I'd like to see proof that it was this apk person you have clearly libeled, trolled (through 3 different threads this past week), and lied about.
The ironically funniest part was how You clone54321 were shot down in your desperate attempt to discredit him, and you hilariously picked Jeremy Reimer from arstechnica who was busted with police being called on him for death threats to apk on Reimer's very website you used, which resulted in his forums having large tracts removed of that material and libel of apk (and his henchman below had 2 whole websites removed by CrystalTech.com), also for email harassing that apk fellow Reimer's ISP put him on a tracking ticket which made Reimer cease and desist the email harassment, impersonating him on his forums and when asked nicely to remove it?
Reimer then pursued apk to Windows IT Pro magazine with a "henchman" in a fat pig named Jay Little who said he was "an expert on Microsoft Exchange" where apk shot that down and Jay Little that obese hog with it, with proof from Microsoft themselves, using their own tty/console mode clearmem.exe app to show that due to memory fragmentation, Exchange servers are KNOWN to stall and what stops it? Memory Optimization programs. He also corrected 'the great russinovich''s work no less, a PHD, who hardcoded paths in his apps (a rookie move) and he ended up thanking apk for it, and lastly, apk predicted VISTA would fail, due to memory and caching (which it did on file copies and the fix? Alter caching in the memmgt section of the registry, here -> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/920739 ).
So much for PHD's, because as was said in "the serpent and the rainbow'? Mozart could give any Harvard PhD a run for his money. Not only did apk give Dr. Mark Russinovich a "run for his money", he outright floored him in the end there. Did you really think you could outthink and outfox that person?
You tried to on firefox 3.6's bug where Germany said to avoid firefox like they did for IE earlier, but never for opera, and you said they did, lying. Unbelievable. Then, ff issued 3.62 to cover that, & oddly the mods on this forums closed that thread 2-5 or so days earlier than usual. Why? I suspect because the last day that thread was open, firefox turned up yet another unpatched security vulnerability, which would have iced you totally (even more than you were already being dusted there already) by showing that apk is correct that ff gets a lot more bugs than Opera ever does, and takes longer to patch them typically also.
So the usual result from you, is libel and name calling as you are doing here with your insinuations as you did here, you did there. You are too predictable troll (clone54321), and because of that, very simple to out think and out maneuver.
So all that aside after I read through all of this, I had to sound off here on it because you have done the same to me clone54321 you dirty troll. So, show us where apk said that please. It wouldn't really matter if he did because you did indeed libel him here on many accounts like calling him a spyware maker which I also would be steamed about were I he too, and much more, many more times. Once MIGHT be excusable, as you were misinformed by that moron Thor Schrock, but apk told you he called CA's Greg Jensen and passed their 21 point test for malware removal, and though they did not remove his single app (of 50 or so online)? They had to downrate it to zero threat levels. Call him yourself, Mr. Informative (for what? self-modding himself up to +5 "informative" via alternate registered user account logons here? Clone's the type that does that because no way would 1 sentence above be a +5 on any sane forums, quite obviously). Fact is, he probably has a $200,000 libel suit possibility like he said because not only did CA do th
Additionally? I see "lots of blather" from a fool whose name here is in NO doubt, in "Tom Hudson". So much for you, you have nothing to say that is of import, so you're just another /. douchebag. As to getting an account? Why?? So I can be an easily tracked moron here that lives for "mod points" & such, trading the freedom an AC has, for your doltish b.s.? No thank you. Keep your mod points, and keep your being easily trolled (should anyone wish to do so). I can post as much as I like, no silly "10 posts per 24 hours for anonymous cowards" applies to me. I've "broken the weak chains of the Matrix" here, easily in fact. So, keep giving those orders Tom Hudson, but guess what??? No one is obeying them, especially from a fool anyone could easily troll, because he elects to be an "wannabe almighty 'l33t registered user'" lol, on /. ... such an honor! Not. It's for pigeons that cannot stand strong alone, and pack mentality weasels (sort of like the 'secret handshake societies' weakling dorks & fratBOYS out there). ON a more serious note? Most ANY OS is good, IF you know what you're up to with it, that is. Clearly? Those LIKE you, do not, and tend to say "Oh, 'yours is bad - only what I USE, is good'" & that's the mark of a ROOKIE-NOOB pal. Get over yourself, because I seriously DOUBT you've accomplished say, 1/2 of what the ac being libeled here, by clone54321, in apk has for example.
See subject. Says it all. "Run Forrest (clone53421), run..."
First, allow me to introduce you to the <p> and <br> tags. They are your friends if you want to look a bit less retarded on the net. Learn to use them. Even a dummy like you who relies on notepad should be able to do that much.
Otherwise, your posts will continue to resemble a puddle of drool. Your thoughts will continue to run together, soft and runny, inchoate, like post-burrito diarrhea.
Now, back to "a more serious note" as you put it - there are several very good, serious operating systems out there - but Windows is not, never has been, and never will be, one of them, for the simple reason that a fish rots from the head.
And contrary to the the balance (or should I say, imbalance) of your logorrhea, there has been no "ac being libeled here by clone54321" - as I pointed out, it's not legally possible to defame someone without identifying them, so you can't libel an anonymous poster.
Besides, I've read the thread with the email threats of legal action, and they were obviously empty, kind of like the writers' head. But that's just my opinion (because I'm being both diplomatic AND charitable in my phrasing :-)
The person clone53421's libeling here is all. Nothing more. He's not a journallist either. He's a programmer and networker combined. If you'd read it a bit, you'd know this. Harassing people? Clone53421 did that to him, and I did not like it, so.. that's it.
Yes! I WANT TO BE SUED! If you have anything legitimate against me, bring it on.
You don’t. You won’t. I’ll laugh.
Oh wait, I’m already laughing.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Chicken.
I read most of the posts in this exchange. It seems from your own words that were often quoted or pointed to by links in the posts of many replies there that You seem to enjoy libeling others and that makes you immature, and yes, stupid. It appears that the person you libeled has been someone that's helped others and created some softwares for others to use, and you have not. You got into a debate with the person you libel now about firefox and he showed firefox having 3 vulnerabilities in 1 week in the article where germany said to not use firefox to its people because of that just as they did for ie before that. They never did that for Opera. You said they did, and when you could not produce proof of it, you began to libel that person apk. That makes you a fool and immature. Grow up.
You obviously have no worth, you post on slashdot all day and nite long. So why don't you go and sue whoever it is you are after now clone53421 - you talk a big game, so do it. Actions speak louder than your slashdot typed words. Good luck bringing suit against a pack of anonymous cowards though.
And profanity from you? Please. Seems we struck a nerve in the dropout named clone54321 who tries to play expert on slashdot, lol. Stop your foaming at the mouth already. Your drooling your geek angst rage at the fact that you're no expert being exposed is your problem, not ours, but when you splatter your saliva all over us because you become enraged at being a useless failure on your part is not our fault but it becomes our problem. Go do something with your life instead, m'kay? Go get that law degree at least, Mr. wanna be internet lawyer (lol). He can't stand it that an ac has beaten the 10 posts per 24 hours limit and that sopssa cannot get that last word on him because of it. You were asked to show him a line from the rules here that said he cannot do that, and you failed to produce it. Go away wanna be expert and wanna be internet lawyer. You're full of it without proofs in written rules and you know it.
Jeremy Reimer also had parts of his website removed, and his friends who also issued the same "apk must be put to death" in Jay Little had 2 of his websites outed by his hosting providers also, and because they both libeled that same guy though. The death threat part had to have the police involved and a detective felton of british columbia canada was notified in Jeremy Reimer's area, and this led to Jeremy Reimer ceasing his stalking of apk forums to forums along with his Reimer's friend Jay Little doing the same also, including that making them stop email harassing apk which Reimer's isp shaw of canada put an end to also. So, all Your name calling and insinuations are useless versus facts tomhudson, and you know it. I happen to be a subscribing member of windows it pro magazine and I read the article where that all happened so there is no pulling the wool over my eyes tomhudson. Your so called source is a known troll, email harasser, and law breaker for death threats made on his website directed apk's way and alongside his friend Jay Little also. Pitiful and they had to get new websites on top of causing themselves all sorts of troubles.
Jeremy Reimer also had parts of his website removed, and his friends who also issued the same "apk must be put to death" in Jay Little had 2 of his websites removed by his hosting providers also, and because they both libeled that same guy apk too. The death threat part directed apk's way had to have the police involved and a detective felton of british columbia canada was notified in Jeremy Reimer's area, and this led to Jeremy Reimer ceasing his stalking of apk forums to forums along with his Reimer's friend Jay Little doing the same also, including that making them stop email harassing apk which Reimer's isp shaw of canada put an end to also. So, all Your name calling and insinuations are useless versus facts tomhudson, and you know it. I happen to be a subscribing member of windows it pro magazine and I read the article where that all happened so there is no pulling the wool over my eyes tomhudson. Your so called source is a known troll, email harasser, and law breaker for death threats made on his website directed apk's way and alongside his friend Jay Little also. Pitiful and they had to get new websites on top of causing themselves all sorts of troubles. The hosts file data? Funny how you ran from the fact that your "other solutions" have security issues galore in them (not that you ever noted your "other methods" in detail either mind you) like DNS servers, per Dan Kaminsky, and ADBLOCK itself can be blocked (reddit.com does it and so did arstechnica), hosts cannot be, and they work on all web based programs. ADBLOCK does not and only works for firefox (and once more, adblock itself can be detected for, and made useless). Give up tomhudson, you're not doing well in quoting invalid sources that are clearly designed to libel someone merely asking that somebody impersonating them be removed from Jeremy Reimer's forums. Reimer himself admitted apk was imperonated on his forum no less in the end.
See subject.
clone54321 quotes slashdot rules that do not exist? Hilarious. clone54321's not only a fake attorney online, but now he's making up 'fantasy land rules' that don't exist to top that off. His friend tom hudson, like clone54321, tried to use a source from a known online troll named Jeremy Reimer who it turned up has been found email harassing others and he was put on tracking tickets by his isp in shaw of canada for it, with Jeremy Reimer impersonating that ac apk, and libeling the ac apk online on his website and making death threats to apk too with his friend Jay Little and having both of their websites removed by their hosting providers. Gee, I wonder who was right there? apk was. tomhudson and clone54321 are having their behinds handed to them using far less than credible sources in known online offenders which is hilarious, and tomhudson is losing on hosts files to top it all off. It's hilarious watching a bunch of anonymous cowards getting the better of these 'elitist wanna be' registered users who think they are online attorneys and computer experts (who rather oddly, lol, lack any degrees or real world experience and accomplishments that have been shown publicly to do well on their parts to establish either tomhudson or clone54321 as actual experts though). What better entertainment is there than watching these registered clowns here in tomhudson and clone54321 make utter clowns of themselves I ask you?
hosts files work on all programs that go web bound and dns servers have security issues in them (see dan kaminsky on that note) that are not fixed. Adblock can be countered for by websites (reddit.com and arstechina.com have or do, do this in fact) and adblock only runs on 1 browser type, in mozilla firefox products, where hosts files work on them all. tomhudson, you're not in the league of the ac's you're replying to, clearly. Give up while you are behind, unless you like providing us the comedy you bring, in watching you get knocked down constantly by your own inept responses on the hosts file and especially when a user is quoting using one and drastically reducing his number of online infections. I would bet that if that person quit using javascript where he did not know the websites he goes to, he would not see a single one, because I do that and have gone years without a virus infestation and yes, I use a hosts file, because of the top of my post here.
Per the subject above, our specimen clone (of the genus "geekus angstus rageous", lol) is exhibiting typical behaviours of that species natural defense mechanism when exposed as a charlatan who talks as if he were some expert at law or chemistry (his usual areas of bullshit), and yet, we can all see he has no degrees or professional experience to his credit in those areas. Thus, his geek angst foaming at the mouth replies replete with profanities manifest themselves as usual. Oh, the shame of it, lol!
"bring it on, asshole" - by clone53421 (1310749)
on Saturday May 01, @10:31AM (#32055956)
Your name calling shows you as a frustrated by "geek angst" troll on slashdot, and your peformance in libeling others here has also been a failure for you. Are you an attorney clone54321? No. You're just trying to play one, on slashdot!
Lots of talk & no action on your part too I see here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1591778&cid=31746938 where you said this:
"if you choose to continue to harass me I will be forced to pursue my legal options." - by clone53421 (1310749)
on Tuesday April 06, @08:59AM (#31746938) Journal
Where YOU threatened suit (which in some states in the USA, is illegal to do, mind you) and after you libeled apk using information from an incorrect authority in THOR SCHMUCK (lol) and from the known troll Jeremy Reimer who was caught email harassing apk, stalking him online, impersonating him on his forums, and having his website removed by his hosting provider (along with his friend Jay Little) for death threats directed to the ac named apk you are libeling. You fail badly clone54321.
Funny how I have javascript enabled and I don't get viruses, and I don't use a modified hosts file. Not one virus. Not this year. Not this decade. Not this century. Not this millennium.
Your "solution" is akin ot fixing Toyota's brake problem by removing the wheels. It sucks.
apk and anyone else who recommends a hosts file as the be-all and end-all of security is a moron. That includes you. But you already knew that, sock-puppet.
Funniest part is, you show you do NOT KNOW HOW TO READ EVEN, because King's Joker here said:
http://forums.theplanet.com/index.php?s=ead2343dd3c88358f1b63cdc948e64c4&showtopic=89123&st=60&start=60
"the use of the hosts file has worked for me in many ways. for one it stops ad banners, it helps speed up your computer as well. if you need more proof i am writing to you on a 400 hertz computer and i run with ease. i do not get 200++ viruses and spy ware a month as i use to. now i am lucky if i get 1 or 2 viruses a month. if you want my opinion if you stick to what APK says in his article about securing your computer then you will be safe and should not get any viruses or spy ware, but if you do get hit with viruses and spy ware then it will your own fault. keep up the good fight APK." - Kings Joker, user of my guide @ THE PLANET
Note the bolded part? I was one of the people that have written J walburger (Kings Joker is walburgerj@yahoo.com by the way and he welcomes emails in regard to that, if you proceed them with apk in the subject line) who uses apk's security guide for windows. He gets caught on viruses on Pr0n sites and by using javascript on websites he doesn't know very well. He told me so in email because I wrote him to find out what he was doing to go from 200 viruses a month down to 2 only and maybe only if that. He told me that he doesn't follow that guide "to the letter' is all, and where he differs is that he doesn't use a browser like Opera where you can specify through Opera's native features to do so, whether to use javascript or not. Anyone can go to SECUNIA.COM or SECURITYFOCUS.COM and see that most attacks nowadays? They happen to users thru javascript in bad adbanners, malscripted websites, and bad downloads. All of which APK's guide and HOSTS files cover no less. Funny how you ran from disputing each point made though tomhudson and failed on all else.
Answer the question above tomhudson, because afaik, those are your only other options available to do what HOSTS files do, from a single easily secured file that keeps you safe from malscripted websites, and yet also speeds you up by blocking adbanners (they've been shown to have malware in them too, via javascript, many times as well as slowing you down by downloading and running their animations) too, and that keeps you away from known bad websites that serve up malwares and other exploits. tomhudson, your avoiding these points and others are only continually showing you are losing badly and that you are by no means, an expert in computing. Do you even have a degree in the computer sciences?
Answer the question above, and from what university/college? Why do I get the feeling that tomhudson, "wannabe expert" and "l33t /. registered user" (lol) doesn't have that, and yet he tries to denigrate others here?? Funny how you ran from here too tomhudson which showed you are clearly anything but an expert in computers, much less law, lol, because he tries to "sidestep the question" here where he tried to play "online attorney" and yet when asked if he had an actual degree in law and if he was a practicing licensed attorney? He RAN or tried to avoid it... lol, see here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1631698&cid=32056930
"apk and anyone else who recommends a hosts file as the be-all and end-all of security is a moron. That includes you. But you already knew that, sock-puppet." - by tomhudson (43916)
on Saturday May 01, @01:03PM (#32057022) Homepage
Tomhudson, you obviously do not read or are illiterate. The security guide of apk's covers far more than just hosts files use. It covers how to use layered security (many tools and options) to be safer online. See here, you need it: http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?s=69ee646c6f6c227d431fa6ac15ed8c58&act=SF&f=87&st=0&changefilters=1 and at roughly 85,000 views there on that forums (and over 350,000 views in less than 2 yrs. time online no less across 15 forums where it was made a "sticky or pinned thread", an "essential guide", and being the most viewed at those forums plus highly rated, typically at 5/5 stars by users of those forums too) it appears to be doing quite well, see this small amount of testimonials from others (professional techs too, no less, in THRONKA):
PROOFS/EXAMPLES OF ITS EFFICACY? Ok, below:
----
http://forums.theplanet.com/index.php?s=80bbbffc22d358de6b01b8450d596746&showtopic=89123&st=60&start=60
"the use of the hosts file has worked for me in many ways. for one it stops ad banners, it helps speed up your computer as well. if you need more proof i am writing to you on a 400 hertz computer and i run with ease. i do not get 200++ viruses and spy ware a month as i use to. now i am lucky if i get 1 or 2 viruses a month. if you want my opinion if you stick to what APK says in his article about securing your computer then you will be safe and should not get any viruses or spy ware, but if you do get hit with viruses and spy ware then it will your own fault. keep up the good fight APK." - Kings Joker, user of my guide @ THE PLANET
AND
http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=672ebdf47af75a0c5b0d9e7278be305f&t=28430&page=2
"I recently, months ago when you finally got this guide done, had authorization to try this on simple work station for kids. My client, who paid me an ungodly amount of money to do this, has been PROBLEM FREE FOR MONTHS! I haven't even had a follow up call which is unusual." - THRONKA, user of my guide @ XTremePcCentral
AND
"APK, thanks for such a great guide. This would, and should, be an inspiration to such security measures. Also, the pc that has "tweaks": IS STILL GOING! NO PROBLEMS!" - THRONKA, user of my guide @ XTremePcCentral
AND
http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=672ebdf47af75a0c5b0d9e7278be305f&t=28430&page=3
"Its 2009 - still trouble free! I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill. I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get. He said good point. So from 2008 till 2009. No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008. Great stuff! My client STILL Hasn't called me back in regards to that one machine to get it locked down for the kid. I am glad it worked and I am sure her wallet is appreciated too now that it works. Speaking of which, I need to call her to see if I can get some leads. APK - I will say it again, the guide is FANTASTIC! Its made my PC experience much easier. Sandboxing was
See subject line and answer the question. Do you have a degree in CSC or CIS also? No and no would be the answers, lol! I mean, until you've done what apk has, per this list of his appearances in respected publications for commercial apps he's written or co-written and more? Well... you know what others think of "the likes of you" versus the list I noted above:
----
Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61
(&, for work done for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com on PAID CONTRACT (writing portions of their SuperCache program increasing its performance by up to 40% via my work) albeit, for their SuperDisk & HOW TO APPLY IT, took them to a finalist position @ MS Tech Ed, two years in a row 2000-2002, in its HARDEST CATEGORY: SQLServer Performance Enhancement).
WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)
PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there
WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there
PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there
CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there
GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" 2000, where my work is contained in it
HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), 2001 my work is there, first one featured, yet again!
Also, a British PC Mag in 2002 for many utilities I wrote, saw it @ BORDERS BOOKS but didn't buy it... by that point, I had moved onto other areas in this field besides coding only...
Lastly, being paid for an article that made me money over @ PCPitstop in 2008 for writing up a guide that has people showing NO VIRUSES/SPYWARES & other screwups, via following its point, such as THRONKA sees here -> http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ee926d913b81bf6d63c3c7372fd2a24c&t=28430&page=3
----
Until you've shown you can do that, and as from as long ago to presently today in the art & science of computing squigglesquash? Well, as the saying goes and what clone54321 used before he disappeared from this forums for libeling others? ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. Especially from the mouth of a wannabe with no degrees in the computer sciences to establish his crediblity and no visible provable accomplishments to their name either like you appear to lack along with those degrees, squigglesquash.
Yup: Squigglesquash is just a nothing, and this all proves it. ROTFLMAO.
Whatever small amount of money that is, it's not a lot clone54321. Is that supposed to impress us? I make that much in less than a week's pay, lol! By the way, care to show us a written rule that shows that anyone who is an anonymous coward that knows how to bypass the "10 posts per 24 hour limit" on anonymous cowards is in fact, a hacker-cracker and a lawbreaker? Go for it, noob. Show us your proof of that dated before this post especially lol! Questions: clone54321 Are you an attorney that's licensed to practice? Do you possess degrees in law?? Do you have degrees in CSC or CIS clone54321?? "Inquiring minds want to know", lol!
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Didn't YOU say that clone? Ok, so go after him then, since you said this here:
"if you choose to continue to harass me I will be forced to pursue my legal options." - by clone53421 (1310749)
on Tuesday April 06, @08:59AM (#31746938) Journal
Yea, lol, sure. With a W H O L E $300 maybe to his name shown in his pics above, lol, like that'd impress us (I make more than that in less than a week's pay), sure he has "legal options". Ones he cannot afford is more like it.
And, didn't YOU say this also, clone54321? See here:
"Actions speak louder than words" - by clone53421 (1310749)
on Tuesday April 06, @06:05PM (#31754900) Journal
They do, but, the problem is all we ever see out of you, is mere words, and no action. ROTFLMAO.
I mean, if you're going to try to troll and put someone down, I'd think you've done better yourself at least, rather than just being another "slashdot wannabe expert" (LMAO) online here, especially you with no degrees in law and yet you constantly play "online attorney" here, and you're certainly no expert in computing because REAL IT PROFESSIONALS are degreed, with either CIS or CSC degrees to their name. So, do you have any of those degrees?? No, and now we ALL know it, lol! Also, the day you've done more than this list below (which the person you put down has)? That's the day you can talk:
----
Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61
(&, for work done for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com on PAID CONTRACT (writing portions of their SuperCache program increasing its performance by up to 40% via my work) albeit, for their SuperDisk & HOW TO APPLY IT, took them to a finalist position @ MS Tech Ed, two years in a row 2000-2002, in its HARDEST CATEGORY: SQLServer Performance Enhancement).
WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)
PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there
WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there
PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there
CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there
GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" 2000, where my work is contained in it
HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), 2001 my work is there, first one featured, yet again!
Also, a British PC Mag in 2002 for many utilities I wrote, saw it @ BORDERS BOOKS but didn't buy it... by that point, I had moved onto other areas in this field besides coding only...
Lastly, being paid for an article that made me money over @ PCPitstop in 2008 for writing up a guide that has people showing NO VIRUSES/SPYWARES & other screwups, via following its point, such as THRONKA sees here -> http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ee926d913b81bf6d63c3c7372fd2a24c&t=28430&page=3
----
Until then, tomhudson, well you know what they say: Talk is cheap, and you talk too much and without anything to your credit that establishes you as someone who is actually that person you put down's superior.
Being serious for a moment: I no more need to write snake-oil and have it reviewed favorably in a collection of Windows magazines than Jon Stewart needs to run a giant, corrupt, corporation in order to poke fun of Kenneth Lay.
You know what I also don't have to my name? An application listed as dangerous by large numbers of authoritative anti-spyware companies.
My customers have always been pretty happy with my software. What am I doing right that you're not? I think it probably involves not being an ass.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
clone54321, it appears to be a pack of ac's posting there. You can't just "generalize" and "lump sum" all of them into 1 poster. Not even a "nice try" clone54321. I did see that you libeled that ac apk though by calling him a spyware maker, and from what others put up there it appears that he's done well in the software world as well as security world in personal computing in both guides, freewares and shareware, and even a commercially sold application for enterprise class systems called SuperCache II for whose work he increased that driver's efficiency by up to 40% and his other research for that company took them to a finalist position at Microsoft TechEd 2000 through 2002 as a finalist, 2 yrs. in a row. In addition to that the blokes' been featured in numerous respected trade publications in the arena of computer sciences. Have you done the same? Clearly not. You talk a lot clone54321, but you have done nothing like that (and from nowhere near as long ago and consistently for the past 15 yrs.). Your sources when you further tried to libel the bloke turned up to be an email harasser, libeler like yourself, and impersonator of others online in Jeremy Reimer who along with his partner in crime Jay Little had their websites removed from their hosting providers too no less, and that other source you used in Thor Schmuck (what a name, I'd change it, lol) turned out to be totally wrong where apk utterly schooled him on what the definition of spyware is, and he also pointed out that his single application passed every question on CA's 21 point spyware test also. You're not doing well clone54321, not at all.
Prove he doesn't make that much then, clone53421. You can't. You sure can "dish it out", but you can't take it. That's what this much has shown me reading this. The very fact you had to try "flash cash" only tells the rest of us that he hit a "sore spot" with you, that's all.
Has you running from questions he asked. They also have shown you libel others with disreputable sources or incompetent ones. Nearly everything the ac crowd here stated was backed with documented or verifiable facts, unlike your statements. They also show that despite all your talk, you apparently do not have a degree in the computer sciences either (though you 'talk a game', it's not a good one). It's come to the point you got SO 'frustrated' in your 'geek angst' that you began your usual name calling and such. Not too impressive.
You sure "talk a big game" but when it came right down to it? You're a zero. Your response is typical of those who talk a lot, yet, who have accomplished nothing at all, let alone anything impressive, in the computer sciences. Do you think you are fooling anyone?? Answer = N O! Better luck next time, talker, lol!
Because you'd be in actually GOOD company!
"You know what I also don't have to my name? An application listed as dangerous by large numbers of authoritative anti-spyware companies" - by squiggleslash (241428)
Do you know that Dr. Mark Russinovich of Microsoft and Nir Sofer of NIRSOFT have also had some of their applications classified as spywares like APK did? No, you did NOT know that, or you would not have uttered that garbage above.
Answer us a question: DO ANTIVIRUS &/or ANTISPYWARE PROGRAMS GET 'FALSE POSITIVES' and ARE THEY PERFECT? By all means, the answer is no. APK's app is like PING.EXE, & can be used for good or bad. Depends on the user. He wrote it in good faith to help others out, but then, so did the folks who wrote ping & so did Dr. Russinovich and Nir Sofer too.
"My customers have always been pretty happy with my software. What am I doing right that you're not? I think it probably involves not being an ass." - by squiggleslash (241428)
Who are those customers? Of course you won't answer, because YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, lol, and IF you do?? I'd wager you're just another 'dime-a-dozen' webpage making programmer-wannabe, at best/most and your 'programs' are for MOM AND POP SHOP SIZED 'conmpanies', lol!
"Being serious for a moment: I no more need to write snake-oil and have it reviewed favorably in a collection of Windows magazines than Jon Stewart needs to run a giant, corrupt, corporation in order to poke fun of Kenneth Lay." - by squiggleslash (241428)
No, it's really that you don't have the talent to make it into such publications that are respected in this art & science is more like it, lol!
on Saturday May 01, @04:07PM (#32058562) Homepage
Answer the question above, quit avoiding it, & thank you.
The only types that put down hosts files usage are those that own bad websites that either serve up malware, or, those with websites that are maliciously coded with bad javascript. Using a custom hosts file, populated by known reputable and up to date sources, allows one very simple concept to take place: "You can't get burned if you don't go into the kitchen". Not only does that result, but a user can futher speed themselves up by adding in their favorite websites into their hosts file to bypass DNS server requests (which dns servers are buggy themselves, see Dan Kaminsky online) saving the 30-N ms roundtrip URL to IP address resolution time and to also bypass DNS server request logs also. By blocking adbanners, which have been known more than a few times the past few years now to have bad code in them also, you speed up very noticeably also. It's your money, you pay for your online time also, and loading adbanners only takes away from that and slows you down. Between them being infected and lagging me, I don't need them around.
The only types that put down hosts files usage are those that own bad websites that either serve up malware, or, those with websites that are maliciously coded with bad javascript. The usage of a custom hosts file, populated by known reputable and up to date sources, allows one very simple concept to take place: "You can't get burned if you don't go into the kitchen". Not only does that result, but a user can futher speed themselves up by adding in their favorite websites into their hosts file to bypass DNS server requests (which dns servers are buggy themselves, see Dan Kaminsky online) saving the 30-N ms roundtrip URL to IP address resolution time and to also bypass DNS server request logs also. By blocking adbanners, which have been known more than a few times the past few years now to have bad code in them also, you speed up very noticeably also. It's your money, you pay for your online time also, and loading adbanners only takes away from that and slows you down. Between them being infected and lagging me, I don't need them around.
The only types that put down hosts files usage are those that own bad websites that either serve up malware, or, those with websites that are maliciously coded with bad javascript. Using a custom hosts file, populated by known reputable and up to date sources, allows one very simple concept to take place: "You can't get burned if you don't go into the kitchen". Not only does that result, but a user can futher speed themselves up by adding in their favorite websites into their hosts file to bypass DNS server requests (which dns servers are buggy themselves, see Dan Kaminsky online) saving the 30-N ms roundtrip URL to IP address resolution time and to also bypass DNS server request logs also. By blocking adbanners, which have been known more than a few times the past few years now to have bad code in them also, you speed up very noticeably also. It's your money, you pay for your online time also, and loading adbanners only takes away from that and slows you down. Between them being infected and lagging me? Well, I don't need them around.
Do your sources? CA's bottom of the barrell commercial ware, and THOR SCHMUCK and the rest of them? Nobody of note. His ware is also listed as zero threat levels there, and apk passed every question of CA's 21 point malware removal test also, violating not a single constraint. So much for your "valid sources". I did see that your friend clone53421 likes stalking apk to other forums despite he stated he is being stalked. See this:
clone53421 likes stalking others to other forums?
http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?s=0c20bd72321b9c96c7a66c25b68b16a6&p=13958812#post13958812
Says it all right there. Pretty pitiful clone53421, and all because you badly lost a debate here to apk on /., where you libeled he repeatedly as well with information from sources who tried the same to apk, in Jeremy Reimer and Jay Little (who only got caught email harassing apk by their ISPs, had their websites with death threats & impersonations of apk removed in part or their entirely (3 of them no less, 3 times) by their hosting providers, and had law enforcement in their local areas notified on them both, due to such "geek angst based" death threats).
Do you think you're fooling anybody replying as AC now clone53421? Your now posting as AC is now caught too clone53421 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1639038&cid=32085082 where you admitted to posting as clone53421 on another forums to troll and stalk me, and in your reply in the url above you give that away clearly.
APK
Do you think you're fooling anybody replying as AC now clone53421? Your now posting as AC is now caught too clone53421 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1639038&cid=32085082 where you admitted to posting as clone53421 on another forums to troll and stalk me, and in your reply in the url above you give that away clearly.
APK
Do you think you're fooling anybody replying as AC now clone53421? Your now posting as AC is now caught too clone53421 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1639038&cid=32085082 where you admitted to posting as clone53421 on another forums to troll and stalk me, and in your reply in the url above you give that away clearly.
APK
Do you think you're fooling anybody replying as AC now clone53421? Your now posting as AC is now caught too clone53421 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1639038&cid=32085082 where you admitted to posting as clone53421 on another forums to troll and stalk me, and in your reply in the url above you give that away clearly.
APK
Do you think you're fooling anybody replying as AC now clone53421? Your now posting as AC is now caught too clone53421 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1639038&cid=32085082 where you admitted to posting as clone53421 on another forums to troll and stalk me, and in your reply in the url above you give that away clearly.
APK
Do you think you're fooling anybody replying as AC now clone53421? Your now posting as AC is now caught too clone53421 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1639038&cid=32085082 where you admitted to posting as clone53421 on another forums to troll and stalk me, and in your reply in the url above you give that away clearly.
APK
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32086468 UNBELIEVABLE!
APK
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32086468 UNBELIEVABLE...
APK
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32086468 Truly unbelievable.
APK
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32086468 Truly unbelievable. Oh well, his ISP is going to be getting a letter in regards to it is all...
APK
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32086468 clone, your ISP will be getting correspondence from me at this point, because you admit to stalking me to other forums. Grow up.
APK
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32086468 clone, I'll be in contact with your ISP shortly in regards to you not only libeling me, but also stalking me to other forums, which is as you say, jail time for YOU, if pursued by myself in a court of law. Grow up.
APK
LMAO: So, do you have a CSC or CIS degree, "armchair quarterback"? Do you have proof of any actual programming you've done?? No and no, and no. Lots of talk, but that's just typical of you "armchair qb's" & slackers at slashdot. You like to "talk as the expert" but what exactly makes YOU an expert in computer sciences?? Nothing.
squiggleslash sure talks a lot, until you ask him if he has a degree in computer sciences and also when you ask him to prove existence of programs he says he has written, lol, but we all know he does not actually have or done for anyone (let alone have them rated well):
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096038
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096066
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096094
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096232
Sure a lot of mod downs though, so keep blowing your mod points there, "Sir Talk A Lot" (LMAO). You're doing a wonderful job of showing everyone here just how "expert" (not) you are in computers, you ne'er do well squiggleslash.
squiggleslash sure talks a lot, until you ask him if he has a degree in computer sciences and also when you ask him to prove existence of programs he says he has written, lol, but we all know he does not actually have or done for anyone (let alone have them rated well):
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096038
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096066
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096094
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096232
Sure a lot of mod downs though, so keep blowing your mod points there, "Sir Talk A Lot" (LMAO). You're doing a wonderful job of showing everyone here just how "expert" (not) you are in computers, you ne'er do well squiggleslash!
squiggleslash sure talks a lot, until you ask him if he has a degree in computer sciences and also when you ask him to prove existence of programs he says he has written, lol, then he EVADES QUESTIONS TO NO END. However, we all know he does not actually have or done for anyone (let alone have them rated well):
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096038
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096066
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096094
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096232
Sure a lot of mod downs though, so keep blowing your mod points there, "Sir Talk A Lot" (LMAO). You're doing a wonderful job of showing everyone here just how "expert" (not) you are in computers, you ne'er do well squiggleslash
squiggleslash sure talks a lot, until you ask him if he has a degree in computer sciences and also when you ask him to prove existence of programs he says he has written, lol, then he EVADES QUESTIONS TO NO END. However, we all know he does not actually have or done for anyone (let alone have them rated well):
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096038
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096066
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096094
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1640368&cid=32096232
Sure a lot of mod downs though, so keep blowing your mod points there, "Sir Talk A Lot" (LMAO). You're doing a wonderful job of showing everyone here just how "expert" (not) you are in computers, you ne'er do well squiggleslash
Do you have a degree in CSC or CIS squiggleslash? No?? We thought not. You're by no means an expert to comment on anything in the art and sciences of computing then. The same things you note have happened to others that write good softwares, such as Dr. Mark Russinovich of Microsoft even and also Nir Sofer of Nirsoft, to name only a couple. Your lack of expertise is showing itself squiggleslash. APK's program passed all 21 points of CA's test if a program is a malware (and according to their test, it literally is not, because it passed all 21 points) and has zero threat levels ratings by CA. Go get a degree and then get back to us, because until then? Your credibility as an expert is non-existent and your avoidance of answering a simple question just says it all.
Do you have a degree in CSC or CIS squiggleslash? No?? We thought not. You're by no means an expert to comment on anything in the art and sciences of computing then. The same things you note have happened to others that write good softwares, such as Dr. Mark Russinovich of Microsoft even and also Nir Sofer of Nirsoft, to name only a couple. Your lack of expertise is showing itself squiggleslash. APK's program passed all 21 points of CA's test if a program is a malware (and according to their test, it literally is not, because it passed all 21 points) and has zero threat levels ratings by CA. Go get a degree and then get back to us, because until then? Your credibility as an expert is non-existent and your avoidance of answering a simple question just says it all!
Do you have a degree in CSC or CIS squiggleslash? No?? We thought not. You're by no means an expert to comment on anything in the art and sciences of computing then. The same things you note have happened to others that write good softwares, such as Dr. Mark Russinovich of Microsoft even and also Nir Sofer of Nirsoft, to name only a couple. Your lack of expertise is showing itself squiggleslash. APK's program passed all 21 points of CA's test if a program is a malware (and according to their test, it literally is not, because it passed all 21 points) and has zero threat levels ratings by CA. Go get a degree and then get back to us, because until then? Your credibility as an expert is non-existent and your avoidance of answering a simple question just says it all to anyone reading.
Do you have a degree in CSC or CIS squiggleslash? No?? We thought not. You're by no means an expert to comment on anything in the art and sciences of computing then. The same things you note have happened to others that write good softwares, such as Dr. Mark Russinovich of Microsoft even and also Nir Sofer of Nirsoft, to name only a couple. Your lack of expertise is showing itself squiggleslash. APK's program passed all 21 points of CA's test if a program is a malware (and according to their test, it literally is not, because it passed all 21 points) and has zero threat levels ratings by CA. Go get a degree and then get back to us, because until then? Your credibility as an expert is non-existent and your avoidance of answering a simple question just says it all for all reading.
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