Well said! Not everyone can get up on a stage and perform. That doesn't make their music any less beautiful. Much of my music library comes from people who just wrote music and released it without performing live.
I'm one of the many people who suffer from paralyzing stage fright. I have near perfect pitch and recall, more than two octaves of voice range, whistle just about any piece of music with good pitch and memory even if I've but heard once or twice, but put me in front of even a small group of people I don't know and I seize up.
I envy people who can do that. On occasion I go to karaoke night at the local bar, and I can sing along just fine (without the visual aids for lyrics for nearly all popular songs, I have a good memory for lyrics as well) if I'm sitting at the bar, but on stage I can't function.
I hope the map in the link wasn't meant to be accurate. They misplaced Pierre, SD by quite a ways east of where it is - that's closer to Mitchell, SD:-)
Still, if it's going to pass over Pierre, it should be visible from where I'm at, if I can get up early enough to climb one of the hills here and still make it to work an hour later...
Who the hell do they think they are? Arrogant bastards.
You know what we need in this country? A presidential administration with the balls to dissolve the RIAA and MPAA and put their executives in prison, where they rightly belong. Any corporate executive who would sign off on an idiot statement like this badly needs a reality check.
The term "corporate propaganda" includes advertising and the associated markups;)
I don't know for sure, but I suspect you are too young to remember when the majority of basic goods went from being locally manufactured to imported (1970s to now, pretty much, it "evolved"). You might want to go and look at the balance of trade numbers from those decades, they are rather enlightening.
I have to go do some "local servicework" early tomorrow, so have to crash. I'll try and get back to this conversation tomorrow night.
I agree with most of what you said. I don't agree that understanding is futile. The knowledge of how they were being abused is what led to the formation of this country in the first place.
Spinoza wasn't a prophet, he just realized that all this has happened before, and will happen again;)
In history past, corruption could not doom the whole species. Now, it can. That is the sole difference. I suspect that Spinoza would understand.
I wasn't saying I wouldn't pay higher prices for goods, personally. I was saying that the populace's demand for cheaper goods - which is driven by competition amongst companies outsourcing our production AND their advertising - is producing the problem.
There isn't a person in this country who can say that they buy entirely US produced goods nowadays. When I was growing up, that wasn't the case, although it was getting much harder to.
From a personal standpoint it has led to me buying very, very few newly produced goods, and recycling old goods much more. At this point in time nearly everything I own is second-hand purchased, save some electronic components.
Exponentially? I doubt that. The use of that term smacks of corporate propaganda.
Corporate abuse of employees by corporations is a time honored custom here with much tradition behind it;-\
Make workplaces safer? Perhaps that burden should fall on the manufacturers rather than the consumers. But you are right, in one sense - the rich will always pass the extra costs on to the poor, including and especially the poor bastards who work for them.
From my reading on the subject - brief, granted - not all of those symptoms manifest in all of the people studied, but many of the symptoms are apparent partially in many normal people as well as people with other genetic abnormalities.
I would like to know where you found the connective tissues issue citation, I can't find anything that says it is "always" a symptom. ditto with below average IQ; there is mention of learning disorders, but not all people with learning disorders have lower IQs (IQ is not a good measure of people with savant abilities, anyway, which some people with WS appear to exhibit)
I have yet to see any studies suggesting increased incidence of heart disease among people with the "syndrome".
I'm interested in finding out more about this, mostly because I exhibit many of the "symptoms" - not all - that they consider.
I would also like to know what exactly the term "normal" means - since it seems to me that the deeper we delve into human genetics, the less meaningful is the term...;-)
Given the small sample that I read about in the article*, I don't believe the conclusion they reach is supportable.
To really get a significant sample they'd have to test very large populations of both WS and non-WS populations for the presence or absence of those genes (as a whole and in part) and also test for any differences between children with only partially missing gene sequences as well as the full set. I also suspect that there are probably a lot more genetic interactions than they have accounted for, in that many of the "symptoms" they claim also show up in other people without having that particular set of genetic abnormalities.
Without seeing a more detailed treatment of the subject it's hard to determine what's really happening here.
Most of the traits that are named in the article - and those espoused by a few posters here who claim to have children diagnosed with this syndrome, are present in many people in part without the rest being present**. So to me this study even if it was properly done seems to only have touched upon a part of how the gene sequences they are looking at express.
* "Robert Livingston from Northwestern University agrees. He says, “I think that it’s problematic to make strong conclusions on the basis of null findings, particularly with a sample as small as 20 WS children.”"
** Elfin faces (which have other genetic associations), perfect pitch/musical ability (ditto), etc...
Disclaimer: I am not a scientist involved in genetic research, JASPSP (Just Another Slashdot Poster Sans Portfolio)
Like Adama, many of us American citizens ask ourselves the same question more and more lately... I suspect that Moore and Eick put that speech into the script of BSG for exactly that reason.
I realize we need china to support American materialism/consumerism.
No, we don't.
The desire of much of the population for ever-cheaper crap to buy at Walmart on their credit cards, and the greed of national corporate distributors keeps that particular piece of bullshit alive. There is no rational reason why we couldn't produce everything we need within our own borders.
We don't understand basic things like whether many cancers are caused by chromosomal abnormalities or whether the chromosomal abnormalities are caused by the cancers.
Or viral causes, for that matter.
While we're waiting for the fundamental biology knowledge to get figured out, we could concentrate on convincing people not to smoke tobacco.
We're already doing that, but I think that legislation and sin taxes aren't the right way to do it. Stopping people from smoking is going to be a very long term effort. Education - along with elimination of tobacco subsidies - seems much more effective in my opinion.
(I am a former/ongoing/quitting again smoker, so I have a vested interest in the problem:) )
I had a friend who went thru something similar (don't remember details anymore, he never talked much about it) back in college in Minnesota (this was in the mid 80s.) He got thru school, and although we lost touch a long time ago, I still admire his attitude towards it - never ever give up.
I'm remembering that nowadays in my early forties; my family doesn't have much of a history of cancer, but we do of early heart disease, and every little blip I have scares me.
The Judge's responsibility is to analyze the claims put forward, and the show of evidence, based on the law, not based on some political opinion of the "proper cases" to come before the courts. ... and THEN slap the case down as ridiculous and frivolous.
Or that she is in her late teens and likely has the same disorder many kids that age seem to have nowadays, which is that the world is not handing them everything on a silver platter like Britney Spears and they are LIKE FUCKING REALLY PISSED OFF, LIKE FUCK, DUDE!
Her guardian better beware, if that money gets awarded to Ms Juliano, said guardian probably won't see any of it...
The entire spaceflight program at that time was a massive investment in R&D. We were attempting to do something that not only had not been done before, but we had no idea how to do it. In order to do it we had to push the existing technologies much further than they already were, and in directions that nobody had thought might be possible or practical at the time.
There's a lot of debate over the direct spinoffs from the space program, and rightly so - however, I suspect that the indirect spinoffs literally cannot be counted. Any huge project of that magnitude tends to have the same result.
I am not arguing that commercial is not the way to go...its just that any commercial venture will have the same issues with rockets that NASA does.
NASA and more commercial companies pooling their resources, expertise and enthusiasm certainly isn't going to hurt. The current aerospace contractors sure as hell aren't going to take the risks that the newer companies have already proven they are willing to.
Slashdot Mirror
Well said! Not everyone can get up on a stage and perform. That doesn't make their music any less beautiful. Much of my music library comes from people who just wrote music and released it without performing live.
I'm one of the many people who suffer from paralyzing stage fright. I have near perfect pitch and recall, more than two octaves of voice range, whistle just about any piece of music with good pitch and memory even if I've but heard once or twice, but put me in front of even a small group of people I don't know and I seize up.
I envy people who can do that. On occasion I go to karaoke night at the local bar, and I can sing along just fine (without the visual aids for lyrics for nearly all popular songs, I have a good memory for lyrics as well) if I'm sitting at the bar, but on stage I can't function.
Not everyone is meant for the stage.
SB
I doubt this holds true for the best musicians.
SB
Compared to the shuttle, meteorites are practically drag free. They don't glide at all.
SB
Depends on her surface area to mass ration ;-)
SB
I hope the map in the link wasn't meant to be accurate. They misplaced Pierre, SD by quite a ways east of where it is - that's closer to Mitchell, SD :-)
Still, if it's going to pass over Pierre, it should be visible from where I'm at, if I can get up early enough to climb one of the hills here and still make it to work an hour later...
SB
So you want to have people imprisoned (not even tried and convicted: just locked up) for proposing legislation that you dislike.
Odd, I don't remember saying anything about there not being a trial for racketeering, price fixing, and anti-trust violations.
I didn't even hint such a thing. So take your strawman and stuff it.
SB
Enemies? No.
Slaves, yes.
SB
Because charging *less* would cut into their hooker and blow money. Duh.
SB
But FUCK NO.
Who the hell do they think they are? Arrogant bastards.
You know what we need in this country? A presidential administration with the balls to dissolve the RIAA and MPAA and put their executives in prison, where they rightly belong. Any corporate executive who would sign off on an idiot statement like this badly needs a reality check.
SB
The term "corporate propaganda" includes advertising and the associated markups ;)
I don't know for sure, but I suspect you are too young to remember when the majority of basic goods went from being locally manufactured to imported (1970s to now, pretty much, it "evolved"). You might want to go and look at the balance of trade numbers from those decades, they are rather enlightening.
I have to go do some "local servicework" early tomorrow, so have to crash. I'll try and get back to this conversation tomorrow night.
Cheers
SB
I agree with most of what you said. I don't agree that understanding is futile. The knowledge of how they were being abused is what led to the formation of this country in the first place.
Spinoza wasn't a prophet, he just realized that all this has happened before, and will happen again ;)
In history past, corruption could not doom the whole species. Now, it can. That is the sole difference. I suspect that Spinoza would understand.
SB
I wasn't saying I wouldn't pay higher prices for goods, personally. I was saying that the populace's demand for cheaper goods - which is driven by competition amongst companies outsourcing our production AND their advertising - is producing the problem.
There isn't a person in this country who can say that they buy entirely US produced goods nowadays. When I was growing up, that wasn't the case, although it was getting much harder to.
From a personal standpoint it has led to me buying very, very few newly produced goods, and recycling old goods much more. At this point in time nearly everything I own is second-hand purchased, save some electronic components.
SB
Exponentially? I doubt that. The use of that term smacks of corporate propaganda.
Corporate abuse of employees by corporations is a time honored custom here with much tradition behind it ;-\
Make workplaces safer? Perhaps that burden should fall on the manufacturers rather than the consumers. But you are right, in one sense - the rich will always pass the extra costs on to the poor, including and especially the poor bastards who work for them.
So where in the long run does that lead to?
SB
From my reading on the subject - brief, granted - not all of those symptoms manifest in all of the people studied, but many of the symptoms are apparent partially in many normal people as well as people with other genetic abnormalities.
I would like to know where you found the connective tissues issue citation, I can't find anything that says it is "always" a symptom. ditto with below average IQ; there is mention of learning disorders, but not all people with learning disorders have lower IQs (IQ is not a good measure of people with savant abilities, anyway, which some people with WS appear to exhibit)
I have yet to see any studies suggesting increased incidence of heart disease among people with the "syndrome".
I'm interested in finding out more about this, mostly because I exhibit many of the "symptoms" - not all - that they consider.
I would also like to know what exactly the term "normal" means - since it seems to me that the deeper we delve into human genetics, the less meaningful is the term... ;-)
SB
Citation?
SB
Interesting, but incomplete.
Given the small sample that I read about in the article*, I don't believe the conclusion they reach is supportable.
To really get a significant sample they'd have to test very large populations of both WS and non-WS populations for the presence or absence of those genes (as a whole and in part) and also test for any differences between children with only partially missing gene sequences as well as the full set. I also suspect that there are probably a lot more genetic interactions than they have accounted for, in that many of the "symptoms" they claim also show up in other people without having that particular set of genetic abnormalities.
Without seeing a more detailed treatment of the subject it's hard to determine what's really happening here.
Most of the traits that are named in the article - and those espoused by a few posters here who claim to have children diagnosed with this syndrome, are present in many people in part without the rest being present**. So to me this study even if it was properly done seems to only have touched upon a part of how the gene sequences they are looking at express.
* "Robert Livingston from Northwestern University agrees. He says, “I think that it’s problematic to make strong conclusions on the basis of null findings, particularly with a sample as small as 20 WS children.”"
** Elfin faces (which have other genetic associations), perfect pitch/musical ability (ditto), etc...
Disclaimer: I am not a scientist involved in genetic research, JASPSP (Just Another Slashdot Poster Sans Portfolio)
SB
Like Adama, many of us American citizens ask ourselves the same question more and more lately... I suspect that Moore and Eick put that speech into the script of BSG for exactly that reason.
SB
I realize we need china to support American materialism/consumerism.
No, we don't.
The desire of much of the population for ever-cheaper crap to buy at Walmart on their credit cards, and the greed of national corporate distributors keeps that particular piece of bullshit alive. There is no rational reason why we couldn't produce everything we need within our own borders.
SB
We don't understand basic things like whether many cancers are caused by chromosomal abnormalities or whether the chromosomal abnormalities are caused by the cancers.
Or viral causes, for that matter.
While we're waiting for the fundamental biology knowledge to get figured out, we could concentrate on convincing people not to smoke tobacco.
We're already doing that, but I think that legislation and sin taxes aren't the right way to do it. Stopping people from smoking is going to be a very long term effort. Education - along with elimination of tobacco subsidies - seems much more effective in my opinion.
(I am a former/ongoing/quitting again smoker, so I have a vested interest in the problem :) )
SB
I had a friend who went thru something similar (don't remember details anymore, he never talked much about it) back in college in Minnesota (this was in the mid 80s.) He got thru school, and although we lost touch a long time ago, I still admire his attitude towards it - never ever give up.
I'm remembering that nowadays in my early forties; my family doesn't have much of a history of cancer, but we do of early heart disease, and every little blip I have scares me.
Good luck to you...
SB
The Judge's responsibility is to analyze the claims put forward, and the show of evidence, based on the law, not based on some political opinion of the "proper cases" to come before the courts. ... and THEN slap the case down as ridiculous and frivolous.
SB
Or that she is in her late teens and likely has the same disorder many kids that age seem to have nowadays, which is that the world is not handing them everything on a silver platter like Britney Spears and they are LIKE FUCKING REALLY PISSED OFF, LIKE FUCK, DUDE!
Her guardian better beware, if that money gets awarded to Ms Juliano, said guardian probably won't see any of it...
SB
The entire spaceflight program at that time was a massive investment in R&D. We were attempting to do something that not only had not been done before, but we had no idea how to do it. In order to do it we had to push the existing technologies much further than they already were, and in directions that nobody had thought might be possible or practical at the time.
There's a lot of debate over the direct spinoffs from the space program, and rightly so - however, I suspect that the indirect spinoffs literally cannot be counted. Any huge project of that magnitude tends to have the same result.
SB
I am not arguing that commercial is not the way to go...its just that any commercial venture will have the same issues with rockets that NASA does.
NASA and more commercial companies pooling their resources, expertise and enthusiasm certainly isn't going to hurt. The current aerospace contractors sure as hell aren't going to take the risks that the newer companies have already proven they are willing to.
SB
4: Being left alone, playing solitaire. ... and they would never, ever lose :)
SB