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File Sharing Remains a Perk of College Life

An anonymous reader points out a story on the effect of a new law on file sharing on campuses — in short, it may not make much difference. "Students who are about to graduate often hand down the tricks of stealing music and movies to the next senior class. ... At the College of New Jersey, that means surreptitiously finding a new home each year for a computer holding an enormous directory of illegal files on the campus. ... The machine runs software called Direct Connect, which lets people on a local network easily trade files among their hard drives in a way that is usually undetectable to anyone outside the network. ... Educause recently unveiled a website with information about the new regulations. It provides case studies from six 'role-model campuses,' listing the steps they are taking to combat piracy. Another page lists 57 legal sources of music and movies on the Web. But when asked which campuses have forged new policies in reaction to the law, Educause officials were unable to name any."

288 comments

  1. not going to work by stonewallred · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are never going to stop folks from trading files. All you can do is try and make it difficult. And that brings its own problems because it usually causes the stuff not to work well and attracts people who like challenges to break your "protection". I believe the model of charging less would work better.

    1. Re:not going to work by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

      You are never going to stop folks from trading files.

      Exactly music is a service and should be treated as such, that's why I like to say I purchase tickets not albums.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    2. Re:not going to work by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't need 100% success to have a victory. Sure people will still do it, but if you don't make it easy for them to do it less people will go ahead and do it any ways. If you make file sharing so hard that only the geeks can do it. Then that is enough to stop all the non-geeks.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:not going to work by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly music is a service and should be treated as such, that's why I like to say I purchase tickets not albums.

      And what about when the music cannot be taken around on tour? Not all music is performed by small bands that can go from venue to venue. There are for electronic works for tape created at places like IRCAM. Sometimes concerts are so costly to put on that ticket prices are unlikely to cover the expenses -- I've gone to hear music at concert halls where it's hard to believe that ticket sales even paid for the huge amount of people hired for the venue's coat check, let alone the orchestra.

      Some amount of public subsidy and patronage is already present to support music that either can't be put on in concert, or isn't profitable to put on in concert. As it becomes increasingly less realistic for artists to expect payment for every copy made of their work, it's worth supporting public subsidy and patronage models at the same time as calling for people to buy tickets to see their favourite rock bands in concert.

    4. Re:not going to work by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      College kids are learning something at school? Excellent! Oh, it's how to glom files while outsmarting "the man"? Hmm, well, not so excellent ... but it will come in handy when they're in the corporate world having to steal customers from competitors and steal ideas from their colleagues to get promotions.

    5. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then the geeks make it easier for the non-geeks as a both a philanthropic gesture, according to their cool internet piracy politics boards, and an effort to "fit in" as the pirated music distributor.

      It's the cirrrcle of liiiife...

    6. Re:not going to work by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Then it's not worth listening to.

      Bull.
      Mike Oldfield. Multiple instruments, multiple tracks, all played by one individual. You cannot do that live.

      Now...if you want to say "he sucks", that's ok, you can do that. But other peoples tastes differ.

    7. Re:not going to work by Skapare · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... causes the stuff not to work well and attracts people who like challenges to break your "protection"

      At least for many, breaking the "protection" is not the goal ... making stuff work well is. If the people making DRM were to come up with a way that provided the "protection" they (claim) to desire, while also working well on every platform, there wouldn't be as much interest in "breaking" it.

      As a user exclusively of FOSS platforms, I consider that every content provider that fails to make sure that my platforms are supported is a content provider that has no interest in revenues from me or other users of these platforms. As such, if WE somehow manage to access their content through means that don't involve any payment, I see no loss to the owner. They didn't have sufficient interest in our money to make an effort to get it. So it is by their own decision that they won't get revenue from us; now ours.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    8. Re:not going to work by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      Lowering Prices is the solution.

      The market is there... they just cant afford the current prices.

      I wonder if anyone has done the math on this... but if you lowered the price of Photoshop to $50... would it create more profit than at its current price $669? (amazon)

      At $60, Modern Warfare 2 made around 1.3 Billion dollars, and they continue to sell new copies...

      I would imagine that the amount of people that use photoshop out number those who play Modern Warfare 2. Even the most of casual users who dont even have photoshop skills...

      It just seems like there is a lot of money to be made if only they lowered prices on software. The market is there. Everyone has a computer.... the problem is that they cant afford all of the software.

      Again has anyone done the math? Is it possible that selling more units, at a lower price would earn more profit?

      On face value it would seem to be so.

    9. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Small bands should perform on smaller tours like restaurants, hotels. No matter what, if their music is good, they will get paid.

    10. Re:not going to work by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wasn't Nine Inch Nail's first stuff all originally done by Reznor in the studio?

      Hire a band for crying out loud.

    11. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      bullshit. mike oldfield has toured from 1997 to 2008. it just takes more people than his albums.

    12. Re:not going to work by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      that's why I like to say I purchase tickets not albums

      I like to listen to audiobooks, some of which are 20 or more hours long and are read by a single skilled actor who 'plays' all the differnt voices of the different characters. Do I purchase tickets to a 20 hour performance?

    13. Re:not going to work by manicb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trent Reznor is a very talented man. What about musicians who are weak performers while a genius in the studio? People who suffer from serious anxiety problems? People whose target demographic is small and distributed across the world? There are plenty of very capable live bands out there who are having trouble pulling in big enough crowds ends meet, and we're supposed to believe that every niche electronic act can put a show together and do the same?

    14. Re:not going to work by manicb · · Score: 1

      Small bands should perform on smaller tours like restaurants, hotels. No matter what, if their music has wide appeal, they will get paid.

      FTFY

    15. Re:not going to work by manicb · · Score: 1

      Those people should be buying Photoshop Elements, Pixelmator, Paint Shop Pro and other software pitched around that price point. There are plenty of alternatives to piracy.

    16. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if anyone has done the math on this... but if you lowered the price of Photoshop to $50... would it create more profit than at its current price $669? (amazon)

      You would need more than an order of magnitude increase in sales. And these sales will all have to come from home users, because professionals are already buying Photoshop. Maybe that price would indeed be incentive enough for Joe Digicam. I don't know.

      But even if you get enough sales to recoup the price drop, your distribution and support costs will increase, so you have to generate even more sales to cover those costs. Then you have to worry about the UI, because suddenly you have a giant portion of the user base who wants a more user-friendly experience. The entire focus of your software shifts towards consumers instead of content creators. The product becomes dumbed-down and unusable for the very customer base that was buying it at $700 a pop, so they look elsewhere. Congratulations, your flagship image editing program is now Paint Shop Pro.

    17. Re:not going to work by TheJediGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But the general public won't buy the alternatives. The mass computer-using public has only heard "photoshop" to the point it's a verb not unlike google. Most people will want to get Photoshop because everyone knows that's how you edit pictures. Anything else just sounds like the salesman trying to sell some cheap crap. When the average non-techie computer user looks for Photoshop and sees it for over $600, they won't look for alternatives to purchase. They'll find their nearest computer nerd friend who can get a pirated copy. Everyone uses computers these days. The non-tech people that use computers follow the marketing and mass media: The iPod is the first digital music player ever, any other kind is someone trying to copy Apple. Google is the first search engine, bing is the new guy. Photoshop is the only way to edit digital pictures, anything else won't do it right.

      We tech people know there are viable alternatives, but the general public don't. Hence there is a valid question to be asked if the "mainstream" marketed software would do well to have affordable alternatives. How many people would buy a legal copy of Office if the new version of Word, Excel, and Power Point could be bought for a reasonable price? (Historically, this was not the case, but MS did release a 3 license pack of Office 2007 that was only Word, Excel, and Power Point for home users priced sub $200.) Software Piracy could likely dramatically drop if the "household name" products were priced at better price points.

    18. Re:not going to work by Dravik · · Score: 1

      If there aren't enough people that like him to cover the costs of his work, then he sucks. The whole problem with public subsidies in any and all areas is that anyone who needs one shouldn't get one, and those who could make good use of the money don't need it.

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    19. Re:not going to work by YourExperiment · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You are never going to stop folks from trading files.

      I don't know. You could always name and shame a particular college on the front page of Slashdot, citing the exact method that the students use to share files. That'd probably do enough to drop a few people in the shit.

    20. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF does any of the above have to do with public subsidies, fer crying out loud?

      As a full-time geek and practicing professional musician, I oppose that type of "spreading the wealth around" as much as anyone. But seriously, WTF?

      (BTW, I personally don't sell enough CDs or tickets to cover the cost of my musical work. Doesn't mean I "suck," dude.)

    21. Re:not going to work by ooshna · · Score: 1

      Audiobooks are different from Music on CDs. And there are people who do that stuff live though its abridged.

    22. Re:not going to work by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      If there aren't enough people that like him to cover the costs of his work, then he sucks.

      It's easy for a lot of people to claim that, but if suddenly all the works supported by public funding suddenly disappeared, then a lot of them without be happy, because public support of the arts goes into more than you suspect. Think about classic cinema, e.g. Bergman or Fellini: eventually these films attracted a following, but they couldn't have been made to begin with without some amount of support. Even in the US where subsidy isn't as popular, figures like Jim Jarmusch got support from local and state governments for their films. It's the same with music. Iannis Xenakis' tape piece Le legende d'Eer wowed audiences in Paris when it was premiered in a specially-built venue at the Pompidou Center, but Xenakis would have never been able to spend hundreds of hours in the studio putting it together without support. Finns recognize Jean Sibelius as a key part of their culture and support keeping his memory alive, but regularly performing his demanding works is hard to accomplish with subsidy.

      Subsidies don't just go to hacks and charlatans with no following. They have resulted in a lot of the universally appreciated Western canon.

    23. Re:not going to work by daver00 · · Score: 1

      Bollocks you can't! A professional musician that does this will just hire a band, its extremely common. Lenny Kravitz, Trent Reznor, Billy Corgan, all do this, and so on and so forth.

      The parent is right, if they can't play it live, or even press play on a laptop and dance around a bit, then they are not performers. If you are not providing a service, you are dependent on a model which no longer makes sense. Turn of last century, recording was non-existent, and music was a service not a product. Recording was costly, hence a product was sold, and actual physical product. Now we're in a new setting, but basically music as a product just doesn't work anymore.

    24. Re:not going to work by budfields · · Score: 1

      The phrase "drop in the bucket" comes to mind. Drop in the ocean, even.

    25. Re:not going to work by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      The parent is right, if they can't play it live, or even press play on a laptop and dance around a bit, then they are not performers.

      It's sad that your conception of music is so small that you think it necessarily has to involve "dancing around".

      With tape pieces, it's hard to attract audiences to buy tickets and hear it out on the town when the work is invariable: there is no difference hearing it in a venue and hearing it from a disc or off downloaded files, especially now that many classic tape pieces are available in surround-sound DVD-Audio or SACD recordings and people can have an appropriate speaker setup in their living rooms. Again, the claim that all one has to do to support musicians is buy tickets just doesn't cover the whole diversity of the arts.

    26. Re:not going to work by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I wonder if anyone has done the math on this... but if you lowered the price of Photoshop to $50... would it create more profit than at its current price $669? (amazon)

      No. Common people don't need Photoshop. Most would still pirate it and spend the $50 elsewhere. Professionals who need it can afford it, usually (mostly companies). So there's no point in lowering Photoshop.

    27. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes, you're just not going to make it.

    28. Re:not going to work by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      then a lot of them without be happy,

      Sorry, that should read wouldn't be happy.

    29. Re:not going to work by toriver · · Score: 1

      Sure you can, you just hire other musicians to play the other instruments. This is not rocket science to figure out.

    30. Re:not going to work by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      It's sad that your conception of music is so small that you think it necessarily has to involve "dancing around".

      It's not worth debating rationally with a lot of the posters in this thread. They are just trying to justify ripping off the work of others without giving anything back to those who did the hard work, so they don't have to feel guilty. Recently, they have latched onto this whole live performance thing, but of course there is all that diversity you mentioned, and the live performance argument doesn't work for movies, software, or indeed just about anything protected by copyright other than certain types of music. It's like the pirates' previous favourite straw man, the duration of copyright, where someone would claim they were somehow protesting because Disney bought copyright extension until doomsday, while ignoring the fact that a huge proportion of the stuff on P2P networks is new releases or prerelease material and relatively little of it would have been out of copyright even if the protection only lasted 5–10 years.

      The sad thing is that in the next thread over, you'll find the same sort of person arguing vehemently about how unreasonable it is to change the law so there is a burden on service providers whose systems are widely used for these illegal activities to monitor their customers, and in the thread after that, you'll find more sensible people upset about draconian measures to have ISPs forced to cut off alleged copyright infringers after three strikes because from an outside perspective that's a crazily disproportionate penalty to impose and even worse without following due process first. Meanwhile, though no doubt Big Media aren't losing as much as they claim in their fantasy maths, they are still watching millions of people flagrantly break the law and being told they can't do anything about it because of legal technicalities.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    31. Re:not going to work by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      It's not worth debating rationally with a lot of the posters in this thread. They are just trying to justify ripping off the work of others without giving anything back to those who did the hard work, so they don't have to feel guilty.

      Whoever those posters are, I'm not among them. My point has been that in order to ensure that artists get some compensation for their work, we ought to increase public subsidy. I support politicians who want to maintain high funding levels for the arts, and I'm suspicious of anyone offering tax breaks because I know that artists will suffer.

      It's not even about trying to rationalize filesharing. I rarely fileshare nowadays, because my country already provides all the arts I could ever ask for free, in the form of free subscriptions to music streaming services, libraries packed full of CDs and DVDs and occasionally free tickets for concerts.

    32. Re:not going to work by dangitman · · Score: 0, Troll

      The whole problem with public subsidies in any and all areas is that anyone who needs one shouldn't get one, and those who could make good use of the money don't need it.

      Nobody was talking about public subsidies for musicians - just the idea of selling recordings of music on the free market. For some bizarre reason, some people think that recordings shouldn't able to be sold, and the only legitimate way to charge for music is through concerts.

      Yes, it is a truly strange sentiment, but one that constantly comes up on slashdot.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    33. Re:not going to work by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      You can bet that they're already charging what earns them maximum profit. Their campaign against piracy is a side project to try to secure those profits in the long term.

      The problem is that you really can't compete with piracy. For music and movies, it's not really possible to differentiate your product with the millions of digital copies (without packaging a whole lot of physical goods with the album/movie, and even then, it then becomes "overpriced stuff" with a disc thrown in). If you try to lower your price to compete, you're still competing against an identical product for zero cost. Still, pirates are going to find it cheaper and easier to keep downloading from bittorrent.

      The situation's a little like extortion. You can appease your extorters, but there's no guarantee that they won't get greedy and ask for more.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    34. Re:not going to work by dylannika · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If they don't have wide appeal would they be making any money off of physical discs? I doubt it.

    35. Re:not going to work by CAIMLAS · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a bit of a catch-22. Most of those bands would not exist without the immediate dispersal methods of file sharing: people aren't likely to plop any sum of money down on an 'unknown'.

      Are they 'entitled' to profit from their ventures when people like them? No, they're not; that's not how it works in this world. Should they be compensated by those who like their work? Of course - if they want to continue to see the fruits of those people's labors (assuming those people are not content to work for free).

      It's a trade-off of sorts. You can't have both bounty and high cost in a medium which is, essentially, free for the taking. Human nature doesn't allow for it (and I'd argue, laws to the contrary are immoral).

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    36. Re:not going to work by russotto · · Score: 2, Informative

      I wonder if anyone has done the math on this... but if you lowered the price of Photoshop to $50... would it create more profit than at its current price $669?

      Adobe has already figured that one out. The relatively price-insensitive customers (professional design shops) they gouge out the wazoo, while they sell a much cheaper program (Elements) missing just a few features (which are key to the pros but not the dabblers) to gather in money from the masses. And they sell the full programs to students for a much reduced price.

      (it can be cheaper to take a design course at a community college and buy the student version than to buy the full version. Especially if you qualify for an education tax credit as a result. And it's 100% legal)

    37. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were pro-filesharing, rather that your reasonable point about diversity is regrettably wasted on many of those who are.

    38. Re:not going to work by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      Common people all know of photoshop. It is what people refer to whenever an image is retouched. People know photoshop like people around the world know coca cola and levis.

      It is the tool... and it doesnt just apply to professionals. It applies to hobbiests, students etc. There are many people who work professionally with photoshop that got their start with pirated versions.

      I'm not asking if photoshop is for the common man or not. It is the standard that everyone knows about... but what i'm asking is if anyone has done the numbers to see if lowering the cost of a program so that it could be as wide spread and as accessable as a coca cola.... would that amount to more profit or not?

    39. Re:not going to work by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      Right but those things, student versions etc...do not stop piracy.

      People still pirate photoshop obviously.

      Why?

      Price still is a factor obviously. People dont want elements, they want photoshop.

      I do think Adobe has probably figured out the math on this... but it doesnt mean that the results were bad. It may just be that they havent tried the "$50 photoshop" plan yet simply out of fear that it might not work... or perhaps such a change in price would take time to win people over with pirated copies.

      It maybe just that they're not willing to gamble... even though the numbers may look good.

      Its an interesting subject because the solution would seem to be lower prices.

      Look at itunes... It hasnt stopped piracy... but it is a successful business model.

    40. Re:not going to work by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      That's the Streisandeffect right? ;-)

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    41. Re:not going to work by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      The market is there... they just cant afford the current prices.

      Sorry, I don't think the market is there at all.

      A market for goods occurs when people (aka "customers") are willing to part with money to obtain these goods because they don't have the time or the expertise to procure or create the goods themselves.

      "Piracy" occurs when people are empowered enough to procure (aka "copy") the goods they want themselves: They just fire up their favourite software or web browser and do it.

      There is no market for third party providers of goods, when all their potential customers are able (ie have the expertise and time) to obtain the goods themselves.

      It's a global power struggle, and computers and the internet have made the current generation of potential customers relatively more powerful than the previous generation used to be. Students are at the forefront of this change.

    42. Re:not going to work by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 1

      Recording still is costly. At one point music was a live performance, like theatre. Both were considered 'low' art because they were performed as cheap entertainment with every mistake present. Recorded music and film, along with change in public perception made theatre and music much more 'high' in terms of art. However you take this and say that now there is nothing left of value in music and it should be free? People work to produce music...singers, producers and musicians for example. Why is their work no longer valuable in terms of money? Because it's recorded? If anything it's more expensive. You act like if Michalangelo didn't sculpt live that his works would be worthless too.

    43. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Before 1940 these people wouldnt of even had an industry. Technology giveth, and technology taketh away.

      Music is freely distributed in radio and now on streaming sites, and have always acted as a advertisements.

    44. Re:not going to work by DavidTC · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I, OTOH, am on neither 'side', but think copyright is dead. Not that it 'should' be...that it is.

      The practical fact is, without some degradation per copy, and/or high costs to copy, there can be no such thing as copyright

      If things are infinitely copyable over 'free' channels, with no work per copier, and almost no work to originally copy...that's it. it's over.

      This isn't some 'Copyright should be dead', it's not any sort of moral judgment at all. Hell, for all I know, the death of copyright will cause a cultural disaster. It's just a fact.

      Copyright was created to stop people from taking a work, spending time and money, and reselling it. That's the point, that's what it manages to stop. It stops the business of copying, when copying had to be a business because no one was out there making their own 35mm film copies, and even if they were, the echos of those copies would quickly disappear as the copies got worse over time...and no one would fund that without any sort of profit possibility, which exposed them to legal sanctions as any illegal business would be.

      Without that effort required...well...

      Imagine a hypothetical world where sex was a heavily regulated industry, and, for some reason, took an amazing amount of prep work and skill. Certain people were allowed to charge for it, and did.

      Others operated outside the law. Sometimes large illegal brothels would spring up and provide mostly identical sex (Piracy rings.), and eventually get shut down by the law, and sometimes people would setting up crappy locations and manage to provide really bad sex. (Aka, analog copies.)

      And now imagine someone figured out how to provide 100% identical sex using a standard bed everyone had in their house, as long as someone who had had sex at some time showed them how.

      And now imagine someone figured out how to copy stuff exactly using the standard computer everyone had in their house, as long as someone had a copy on a computer somewhere.

      Copyright is dead, or at least has been fatally wounded and will be dead soon. It's coasting right now on the fact that a) they own congressmen, and b) citizens are amazingly apathetic. But I suspect in, very soon, the laws will change, simply because people are not following them. I am not, in any sense, arguing this is a 'good' thing, just a 'true' thing.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    45. Re:not going to work by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      nah... The market is there.

      Reverse the situation. If Activision priced Modern Warfare 2 at $350... there would still be a lot of people out there who would want the game... but could not afford it.

      They can either buy another game at $50... or they can pirate it.

      But I do think there is concern by companies that even if they were to lower prices... would the market buy enough volume to warrant the price reduction.

       

    46. Re:not going to work by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Historically, this was not the case, but MS did release a 3 license pack of Office 2007 that was only Word, Excel, and Power Point for home users priced sub $200.

      In terms of selling something when it is not naturally scarce, we're talking about selling it at a trivial price. If you're talking about really getting the average consumer to buy, we should be talking about sub $20, not sub $200. For music, get the major labels together to sell an "all you can eat" plan for $5-10. Same for movies, etc. Pay by the copy doesn't work for most things that can be digitally distributed, but if you can provide a convenient, all you can eat service, people will drop you cash by the truckload. Since the costs of replicating and delivering the product are minimal, that $5-$10 per person is essentially pure profit. Not too bad.

      Unfortunately, what we're seeing here is the direct opposite. Prices get jacked up, pay-per-copy thinking continues, and DRM is imposed on the copies that are sold so that they are in fact less capable than the "pirate" versions with the silliness stripped out.

      Ignoring reality, no matter how much you dislike it, is not a sustainable business model. The music, movie, software, etc., industries are based around certain technologies, and made a great deal of money from the state of those technologies for many years. Now technology has changed. The solution for them is to adopt to the new model, not to attempt to roll back the clock.

      It may also turn out that the new, disruptive technology has made some aspects of content production and distribution obsolete. It's not the first time that's happened, and it won't be the last. Technology destroyed the market for everything from buggy whips to refrigeration ice hauled down from mountains.

      These corporations cannot on one hand screech that it's a "free market" and that they "serve only their shareholders" when committing price gouging, mass layoffs without dire need, subsidizing their low pay with public welfare, and other such actions, and then turn around and demand protection from that very "free market" when it renders them obsolete. Can't have that one both ways.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    47. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sounds like you're trying to make that an "Us" problem. That's definately a "You" problem.

    48. Re:not going to work by Dravik · · Score: 1

      Quote: Some amount of public subsidy and patronage is already present to support music that either can't be put on in concert, or isn't profitable to put on in concert. As it becomes increasingly less realistic for artists to expect payment for every copy made of their work, it's worth supporting public subsidy and patronage models at the same time as calling for people to buy tickets to see their favourite rock bands in concert. CRCulver (715279)

      --
      The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
    49. Re:not going to work by initialE · · Score: 1

      They lip-synch, dance, and hire sexy babes to gyrate against them.

      --
      Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
    50. Re:not going to work by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Well said! Not everyone can get up on a stage and perform. That doesn't make their music any less beautiful. Much of my music library comes from people who just wrote music and released it without performing live.

          I'm one of the many people who suffer from paralyzing stage fright. I have near perfect pitch and recall, more than two octaves of voice range, whistle just about any piece of music with good pitch and memory even if I've but heard once or twice, but put me in front of even a small group of people I don't know and I seize up.

          I envy people who can do that. On occasion I go to karaoke night at the local bar, and I can sing along just fine (without the visual aids for lyrics for nearly all popular songs, I have a good memory for lyrics as well) if I'm sitting at the bar, but on stage I can't function.

        Not everyone is meant for the stage.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    51. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My problem with Elements is that they "consumer-fied" the interface too much. I like Elements 2, as it has a more "professional" interface.

    52. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silly Rabbit, you assume that the average college student possesses shame. More likely, all you'll end up doing is effectively rewarding contrarian behavior by giving it attention. That, and providing the next group of sharers vital intel on how to adapt and evolve their behaviors to circumvent further detection.

    53. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sucks to be them. Or should we have a law that allows me to get paid for making airplane noises and flapping my arms, because you know I am afraid of heights. Because I am FUCKING GREAT in a simulator.

    54. Re:not going to work by daver00 · · Score: 1

      Excuse me??!?!!?

      I am not trying to justify stealing peoples work, I am simply stating two facts. One: historically music was about performance, it existed BEFORE recording was even a concept, Two: Recording was once value-adding, in that recording and storage and distribution were costly things which added value to your music. Technology has rendered this invalid, artists should move with technology to stay relevant.

      The printing press obsoleted the town crier. Is it valid in this day and age to complain that the town crier no longer has a job? Is his role fulfilled none the less? Digital media and recording is fast obsoleting the record labels. A new business model is required. An artist should not be protected from technological advancement simply because. By that logic we might as well ban graphics tablets because digital art is cutting into the market share of real paintings. Or, by some perverse manner as the GP is arguing, we should ban PAINTERS to save the digital artists... Thats essentially what his argument is leading to.

      The market is saying something clear: Recorded music has little to no value anymore, live concerts however fetch ever higher prices. Its pretty clear what the message is here from the demand side.

      Clarification: I am a musician, so go fuck yourselves.

    55. Re:not going to work by daver00 · · Score: 1

      The value is in the experience. And no, thank you I do not think all music should involve 'dancing around', but yeah thanks for the high and mighty "I am a more sophisticated listener and therefore superior to you" attitude. Why do people still go to classical concerts? The experience, the atmosphere, the social aspect. It is fun, and entertaining, infinitely more entertaining than playing a recording, even if it sounds the same (in reality, no audiophile can reproduce the acoustic qualities of a good concert hall).

      Thanks for ignoring my real point and jumping on one single example I provided though.

    56. Re:not going to work by daver00 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Recording still is costly.

      Give me $10,000 and I'll build you a studio that will return sound quality so close to a multi million dollar equivalent that 99% of people would not know the difference. Recording is very cheap these days, and does not justify the exorbitant rates we are charged for digital media.

    57. Re:not going to work by Aklyon · · Score: 1

      These corporations cannot on one hand screech that it's a "free market" and that they "serve only their shareholders" when committing price gouging, mass layoffs without dire need, subsidizing their low pay with public welfare, and other such actions, and then turn around and demand protection from that very "free market" when it renders them obsolete. Can't have that one both ways.

      Hollywood is scared of the market it been ripping off since the internet stole control from it? that makes sense, the known con man will flee while the unknown will stay.

      --
      I reserve the right to have a physical object so I can sell it later, and recover my money.
    58. Re:not going to work by ailnlv · · Score: 1

      What about songs like March of the Black Queen? I'd hardly say it's not worth listening to, but Queen considered it too difficult to perform live. There has to be at least a hundred examples of such cases. You clearly don't know much about music.

    59. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What about musicians who are weak performers while a genius in the studio? People who suffer from serious anxiety problems?

      TOO BAD!

      Having a talent doesn't automatically entitle you to be able to make money from that talent. And it *absolutely* does not entitle you to take control of the legally-purchased hardware away from every person in the world.

      Non-performing musicians can set up a voluntary-pay web store like Jonathan Coulton, or something similar. But if they can't or won't perform, that is *their* problem, not mine.

    60. Re:not going to work by countertrolling · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They can still get a contract to do studio work for soundtracks, advertising, etc. They can release one song and get you to pay for more if you like. All sorts of new options will pop up once the gates are broken down.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    61. Re:not going to work by shadowbearer · · Score: 4, Insightful

        You put your best works out there and you take your chances.

        That's how it should be. Nobody - and especially not the middlemen - should be guaranteed a living by law.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    62. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well let him do that. Let him make the music.

      But why does he feel entitled to make millions and millions of dollars from it!?

    63. Re:not going to work by randyleepublic · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >> What about musicians who are weak performers while a genius in the studio?
      They aren't going to be rich. Get over it.

      --
      Social Credit would solve everything...
    64. Re:not going to work by jman451 · · Score: 1

      Price discrimination, charging different people different prices for the same product is only viable when you have a monopoly. Since Photoshop basically has no competition they are able to inflate the price to significantly more than the market value.

      There is also the issue of software being an infinite good, the marginal cost is $0, so the price should also be $0. Since the price isn't $0 the perception is that they shouldn't charge such huge fee's and that the company is ripping people off. Feeling ripped off causes people to forget the rules and take what they think they deserve.

    65. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mike Oldfield's live performances are (were?) awesome.
      This is not hearsay: Rimini, Italy, early eighties: unforgettable Mike Oldfield's concert.
      As you might guess he didn't play all his instruments, but a few more musicians could win their bread on my ticket that day, which isn't all that bad.

      Sure, it's not the same thing, but I wouldn't miss special effects while enjoying a live performance of a great actor.

    66. Re:not going to work by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Exactly music is a service and should be treated as such, that's why I like to say I purchase tickets not albums.

      Some of us have zero interest in purchasing tickets for live events, and only listen to recorded music. There is no reason why musicians should be forced to provide this music for free, which is what filesharing does.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    67. Re:not going to work by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You put your best works out there and you take your chances.

      That's how it should be. Nobody - and especially not the middlemen - should be guaranteed a living by law.

      That argument falls down if, when you put your works out there, everybody listens to them, but nobody pays you for doing so.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    68. Re:not going to work by Bungie · · Score: 1

      Sure there will always be pirates and students who won't pay for anything. I think some people would pay if the price was low enought. Sure they have the expertise to download and crack Photoshop. But if it was like $50. it could be worth it to avoid having to crack it, be able to install updates, and just have a legit copy.

      Even when I'm buying books. I'd have no problem paying $30-50 to get a useful programming book. When it comes to a $300 copy of something like Windows Internals, you can bet I'm going to seek other means of obtaining it! How could I justify buying a single book for the price of a playstation?

      --
      The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
    69. Re:not going to work by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Hey, I've got a good idea, only people who can do programming live in front of an audience whilst juggling chainsaws should be allowed to make a living as a programmer.

      Can't do it? You aren't going to be rich, get over it.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    70. Re:not going to work by DrugCheese · · Score: 1

      No, it'll just be enough so that everyone runs to their geek friends to do it for them.

      --
      *DrugCheese rants*
    71. Re:not going to work by BlackBloq · · Score: 1

      Are you smoking some good crack or what buddy! Get real! $100.00 or more a ticket for medium sized artists?!? I've help run shows with production costs of $50,000.00 and we got to fly in DJ's from London. They got paid alot of cash for partying. Playing music is work but not worth 10k for one night. Get over it. They are making cash hand over foot! That show made a big profit and had enough to fund the next show. The next show died and killed the nest egg due to an outdoor festival being rained on... the artists still wanted to get paid for their time just like they played, while really only sitting in a hotel room. You can make money with a venue and a band charging 20$ a head easy. Not if you add retarded shit like a 50 foot jumbo tron and a 100ft dancing skeleton. But I guess we need that. Coat checks are there to make money as a profitable venture or did you think it cost money to store a coat for an hour or two? You are really misinformed about profitability of the business and clearly have no clue of what you speak. Oh I know some symphonies struggle to make ends meet but that is due to the fact they they don't ever fill the huge opera style houses they are played in, costing a mint and not filling in at all. Festivals come and sell out the concert halls (new classic music, Jazz etc) and make a kick ass profit, However the same old performance of the nutcracker , without ballet doesn't fill the house and runs into the red because they didn't have a good enough product.

    72. Re:not going to work by Yamata+no+Orochi · · Score: 1

      Hey, I've got a good idea, only people who can do programming live in front of an audience whilst juggling chainsaws should be allowed to make a living as a programmer.

      Can't do it? You aren't going to be rich, get over it.

      Yes, I imagine they're not. They're programmers, not sideshows. Ease up on the linebreaks, by the way. And the fucking moronic posts.

    73. Re:not going to work by Yamata+no+Orochi · · Score: 1

      (BTW, I personally don't sell enough CDs or tickets to cover the cost of my musical work. Doesn't mean I "suck," dude.)

      It means you don't have a self-sustaining business model, and shouldn't quit your day job.

      That's pretty interchangeable with 'sucks' in most people's perception, but the word's used pretty broadly.

    74. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're confusing "folks" as in "everyone" with "a few people" as in "not everyone". They are not the same thing.

    75. Re:not going to work by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      When to treat the customer like a criminal of course people are going to get the superior pirated copy.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    76. Re:not going to work by JustABlitheringIdiot · · Score: 1

      You put your best works out there and you take your chances.

      That's how it should be. Nobody - and especially not the middlemen - should be guaranteed a living by law.

      That argument falls down if, when you put your works out there, everybody listens to them, but nobody pays you for doing so.

      If everybody listens but doesn't buy, you really are not offering your best product. Add some value that can only be obtained by purchasing the real deal for example some cool extras in the enclosed literature.

      1. Distribute for free to build a following
      2. Offer bonus *ooh sparkly*
      3. Profit...

    77. Re:not going to work by jemtallon · · Score: 1

      This.

      A better analogy would be if you were an adequate programmer but afraid of computers and couldn't type when in front of one. I'm sure there's a niche for this hypothetical person and with enough creativity he or she could make it work. But would you want to restructure the market and laws to guarantee them a programming job when they couldn't perform one of the main functions of the job?

    78. Re:not going to work by jemtallon · · Score: 1

      I wonder if anyone has ever hired a celebrity for a personal appearance to read them a book. I'm adding this to my "if I ever get rich" list. "#14 - Hire Sir Patrick Stewart to read me a bedtime story"

    79. Re:not going to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      here is a name:

      University at Buffalo

      They use DC++ a la the Bizzaro Hub.

      Guess what? saying all that means nothing. UB routinely got letters from the MPAA / RIAA about file sharers, but those were always about people who ended up managing to share their files with the outside [of UB] world.

      The **AA's have no all seeing eye within the university network, and as such have no way to legally go after the school. The school also has lawyers on retainer as well.

    80. Re:not going to work by manicb · · Score: 1

      This is of course the correct answer. It's important to recognise that 'live performance' isn't the right *sparkly* for every musician, but there are alternatives out there at the moment. Hopefully this will remain the case.

      I wasn't expecting quite such a big response to my post, so I would add that I do agree that people aren't and shouldn't be automatically entitled to compensation just because they produce something wonderful. It's just a bit of a shame.

    81. Re:not going to work by manicb · · Score: 1

      I really shouldn't rise to this, but... It's a "them" problem. I can play. I just don't see how that makes me more worthy than somebody who is a better composer.

    82. Re:not going to work by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I understand your argument, but I think it suffers from one fundamental flaw: almost any law relies on the understanding and acceptance of the majority of people and could be broken by any given individual. It is the social contract between us that prevents this, not the ability to enforce laws rigorously on a massive scale.

      By your argument, any possessions are pretty much pointless, because it is relatively easy to steal from someone if you really want to. It is a combination of ethics and the threat of punishment if caught that prevents most people from doing it and allows the legal system to work on those who still do so.

      Copyright is no different. A significant number of people don't follow the law because they just don't care, but most people don't understand it, or worse, think they understand it but haven't actually thought through the economics and the implications of allowing open-ended copying, or worse still, agree that what they are doing is wrong from an ethical point of view but do it because they think they will get away with it. If the underlying principle is reasonable and the implementation fair, then most of these things can be overcome through education and fair but strong enforcement, as with things like drink-driving or smoking in public places, both of which used to be considered the norm in my country but are now widely considered antisocial.

      Of course, the implementation of copyright in law today is far from its original principle and has been horribly corrupted. That certainly won't stand if mass enforcement efforts begin, because it will immediately become a significant political issue. But I would like to know what the consensus would be if we reverted the law to reflect the intended spirit of copyright and then presented a short, unbiased presentation to everyone so they could see the reasoning. I suspect if the law were reformed so that the people doing the real work were the principal beneficiaries, most people would support that, and it's the corruption of the idea of copyright to benefit the middlemen that is the real problem.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    83. Re:not going to work by manicb · · Score: 1

      If only they could offer a $50 edition for people who can prove they were otherwise going to crack it anyway...

    84. Re:not going to work by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      Coat checks are there to make money as a profitable venture or did you think it cost money to store a coat for an hour or two?

      Coat checks at Nordic concert halls are free. You don't pay anything to have your coat and belonging taken and hung up by the people working there. However, they are paid a high wage for the time they are working, and the venue seems to hire more than strictly needed, so as I said, it's sometimes hard to believe that ticket sales cover much beyond the coat check.

      Oh I know some symphonies struggle to make ends meet but that is due to the fact they they don't ever fill the huge opera style houses they are played in, costing a mint and not filling in at all. Festivals come and sell out the concert halls (new classic music, Jazz etc) and make a kick ass profit,

      Why then do festival programmes list all of their sponsors, state and private, and say that without that support, the festival could not have happened? And as I said, even if you sell out concert halls like Finlandia Hall in Helsinki, that doesn't imply any kind of profit is made.

    85. Re:not going to work by himself · · Score: 1

      I really can't understand your sex-as-media-piracy analogy, and what's worse is that I'm having trouble figuring out how to remap it to a car analogy. Could you maybe rephrase it?

    86. Re:not going to work by randyleepublic · · Score: 0

      I've got a better idea. Let's all live in a fantasy world where everyone is rich no matter what they can do or not do. That's about as reasonable as your suggestion, isn't it? The things people want and are willing to pay for change. You might be the best buggy whip maker who ever lived, you're still not going to make a very good living in 2010. Getting rich off recorded music was an anomoly of the disparity between the ease of mass production of original recordings and the difficulty of copying those recordings. That's over and so therefore is the career potential - one that, in my opinion, did more damage than assistance to the production of great music. You can't turn back the clock - and you would be a fool to do so if you could. So, as I said earlier: get over it.

      --
      Social Credit would solve everything...
    87. Re:not going to work by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        The real shame of all this is that the actual reason that the RIAA and MPAA are so hyped about "piracy" is they want to control the distribution channels, like they used to.

        Indies putting their own works out there without resorting to going thru the companies that make up those two organizations are the real threat to their monopoly, and they know it.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    88. Re:not going to work by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      By your argument, any possessions are pretty much pointless, because it is relatively easy to steal from someone if you really want to. It is a combination of ethics and the threat of punishment if caught that prevents most people from doing it and allows the legal system to work on those who still do so.

      No, people want laws about theft because they don't want to be stolen from. Even thieves want laws about theft...they just don't want to get caught.

      But people really have no opinion of copyright stuff, because they hold no copyrights.

      Essentially, I think we agree, except you think that a) the laws can be fixed, and b) people can be educated to not violate it.

      I have no idea about the latter. I think you're wrong, and copyright law was never intended to stop personal copying (the laws of physics did that) and thus can't really be intelligently used in that manner. But it's totally moot anyway.

      Why? Because copyright-holding conglomerates are so stupid on this issue, and feel so entitled (Retroactive copyright extensions? Really?) that I don't foresee the former ever happening, I don't foresee the law ever becoming sane, and someday the revolt will happen and those copyright holders will be buried in the graves they, themselves, dug.

      This is not a good outcome, but it's what happens when people own the law...they will manipulate it to get every dime out of it, with absolutely no long-term thought as to how it's eventually going to blow up in their face when people say 'Fuck this, we don't need these laws at all.'

      It's exceptionally stupid driving-off-a-cliff mentality when it's a law that 99.999% sees no obvious result to except for them paying for things.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    89. Re:not going to work by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Okay:

      It's like vehicles were owned by large companies, and charged you to ride them.

      Some companies operated illegal vehicles for less money, but authorities often cracked down on them. (Commerical pirating operations)

      Also, there were sometimes free busses, if you were going where they went. (Radio, TV.)

      A lot of people could illegally walk to nearby friends, but that was very tiring, and you couldn't carry as much stuff, and you had to know someone who lived nearby. Tech advanced, bicycles were invented, whatever, but it was still a hassle. (Analog copying.)

      Eventually, someone invented a near-perfect user-owned vehicle and that looked bad for the business paradigm, but companies managed to get the parts taxed, and luckily it was hard to figure out how to drive, the industry barely managed to hold things together. (The CD.)

      And then...someone invented a teleporter pad. Built out of a sofa cushion and a light bulb. Costs 1/50th of a penny to send someone to another teleporter.(The internet.)

      Um...holy shit. You could go anywhere in the world, instantly, with all the stuff you wanted, as long as they had a teleporter pad set up at the other end. And people who lived near important places would set up those pads on their front lawn and let people use them for free.

      The road companies, of course, also set up their pads, and tried to run them for pretty cheap, sometimes. Also, they'd drive around and try to find outdoor teleporter pads, so a lot of people would hide them inside and only let their friends use them.

      But, in general, the entire toll road system was dead.

      This, by analogy, is what happened with sex. I mean what happened with copyright law.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    90. Re:not going to work by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      Actually, you'd probably just slashdot their enrolments.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
    91. Re:not going to work by L1feless · · Score: 1

      Maybe this is just a North American mentality but if someone is offering you a service and as part of the venue and your paying coat check staff a wage to be there I would expect to pay for that service as a customer. I realize that 4 bucks to check my coat is a profit machine but at the end of the day it enables me as a fan to enjoy the music and concerts I want to see without the hassle of my coat being in the way. The point which is being made here is that the entertainment industry in general should be treated the same as any other retail business. If your sales are not higher than your expenses then you have a failing business model. Find alternate ways to make income to support that business (like a coat check fee, or raise the cost of parking by a dollar) to cover those costs. I suppose the point I am trying to make here is the exact same as BlackBlog's. You have a failing business model. FIX IT or go bust.

    92. Re:not going to work by L1feless · · Score: 1

      The entertainment industry might not be for them. Either that or they must find alternative methods which suit their individual needs which can still make them money. If they can't make money then it looks like the entertainment industry for that person is best left as a hobby.

    93. Re:not going to work by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 1

      Okay, but you have to find a good engineer, you have to pay the band, you have to pay the distribution chain if you want real distribution. Now maybe THAT is the problem; we should be able to have band, studio and engineer and the rest can be done on the internet, fuck the labels, but yeah, I'm sure a lot of people who aren't music execs would like that.

    94. Re:not going to work by rob_squared · · Score: 1

      People do listen to other sorts of music you know. My favorite artist is Soul ballet. Rick Kelley is the guy who makes it and he does all the instrumentals. He also mixes in a lot of techno stuff that isn't going to translate to a live performance. Then there's classical arists...

      --
      I don't get it.
  2. In other news by DMiax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Copyright infringement remains different from stealing. As in "we will stop stealing when you stop calling it stealing".

    1. Re:In other news by 1336 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Copying is not theft.
      Stealing a thing leaves one less left
      Copying it makes one thing more;
      that's what copying's for."

      Source: http://questioncopyright.org/minute_memes/copying_is_not_theft

    2. Re:In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The reason the media distributors call it theft isn't because copying removes the product from the rightful owner. It's because copying removes the MONOPOLY from the "rightful" owner. When you copy something whose copyrights belongs to someone else, you are destroying their monopoly on distribution. However, I figure that since you don't obtain the monopoly for yourself when you do this, it's still not theft -- it's more akin to vandalism or willful destruction of (private?) property ;)

      Questions/Comments?

      (captcha = "entitled")

    3. Re:In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more akin to copyright infringement.

    4. Re:In other news by kz45 · · Score: 0, Troll

      "Copyright infringement remains different from stealing. As in "we will stop stealing when you stop calling it stealing"."

      Why don't you come up with another excuse? When one excuse doesn't work anymore, copyright infringers will always have another to justify why they deserve something for free.

      Copyright infringement isn't stealing. It's counterfeiting, which is worse. When you steal a physical product, like a tv, the company that makes it can still sell more tvs.

      When there is mass counterfeiting of music, software, or games, it has the potential to destroy the original business. If piracy is not prevented, people get the idea that it's okay to just get your stuff for free. Over time, this will devalue it because most IP is only worth what people are willing to pay.

      When Napster first came out, people said that the artists weren't making enough money and that albums were way too expensive (this is why they downloaded music for free). Now that any artist can make a living online without a recording contract and you can pretty much get any song for 99 cents or less on services like iTunes, there are a whole new set of excuses.

      The community won't be happy until there are no restrictions on all music, books, software, and games and it's all free (costing $0), which is pretty fucking selfish.

    5. Re:In other news by DMiax · · Score: 1

      Stealing is better because it leaves the company unharmed (while hurting the individual)? What kind of reasoning is that?

      I just wanted to point out that trying to confuse the two is counterproductive. People feels that there is no harm done in pirating things and all the industry looks silly in comparison. Same reason that if one law is disproportionate every law seems disproportionate.

      As for games I stopped paying and playing when I switched to linux a lot of time ago. I only buy music on magnatune after many plays. I cannot avoid hearing big labels' music everywhere on the street so I feel compelled to have it. Seeing the profits of the industry I have a hard time feeling guilty.

      Distribution is overpriced nowadays. Just deal with it.

    6. Re:In other news by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Copyright infringement isn't stealing. It's counterfeiting, which is worse.

      Apparently you don't understand the definition of counterfeiting. Counterfeiting is when you make an imitation of something, and pass it off as the real thing. Whatever the illicit copying of music is, it is patently not counterfeiting.

      The equivalent of counterfeiting in music, would be for some third-rate band to to a cover of a song by a famous artist, and pass it off as the real thing. For example, a Led Zeppelin cover band not admitting they were a cover band, and saying that they actually are the real Led Zeppelin.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    7. Re:In other news by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Copyright infringement isn't stealing. It's counterfeiting, which is worse.

      Whatever the illicit copying of music or other creative works is, it's patently not counterfeiting. Counterfeiting is when someone creates an imitation of something, and passes it off as the real thing. The classic example is fake bank notes.

      The musical equivalent of counterfeiting would be if a third-rate band covers a song by a famous band, and passes it off as being the original. For example, a Led Zeppelin cover band who does not admit to being a cover band, but claims that they actually are the real Led Zeppelin.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    8. Re:In other news by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Apologies for the duplicate post. There was some quirk in slashdot where my original just disappeared - I even looked for it in my post history, but it wasn't there. So I posted again, and then the original showed up. Weird.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    9. Re:In other news by russotto · · Score: 1

      The equivalent of counterfeiting in music, would be for some third-rate band to to a cover of a song by a famous artist, and pass it off as the real thing. For example, a Led Zeppelin cover band not admitting they were a cover band, and saying that they actually are the real Led Zeppelin.

      Wait, don't pirates hire studio performers to make "greatest hits of the decade" albums, and then sell the things via mail-order, often implying that the songs are by the original performers?

    10. Re:In other news by cynyr · · Score: 1

      actually thats easier than just playing a song at a school music class... I belive there is a fee that you can pay to a single body for rights to cover a song.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    11. Re:In other news by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      When there is mass counterfeiting of music, software, or games, it has the potential to destroy the original business. If piracy is not prevented, people get the idea that it's okay to just get your stuff for free. Over time, this will devalue it because most IP is only worth what people are willing to pay.

      Um, and by the same logic, giving things away for free, when other people are trying to sell stuff like it, is counterfeiting, or at least unethical.

      The community won't be happy until there are no restrictions on all music, books, software, and games and it's all free (costing $0), which is pretty fucking selfish.

      'The community' does not exist, so please stop attributing things to them. (That's counterfeiting. Or at least closer to counterfeiting than your 'immorally giving things away for free' concept is.)

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    12. Re:In other news by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Burma Shave for the modern masses ;-)

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    13. Re:In other news by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I belive there is a fee that you can pay to a single body for rights to cover a song.

      yes, but you couldn't actually claim to be that band and release albums under the original band's name. It's like the difference between plagiarism, and quoting someone else with attribution.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    14. Re:In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. And I suppose if I kill 1 person to save 2 others, that's also ok.
      I agree with you on one point. "Copyright infringement" is not theft. Theft is too much of an understatement.
      You deprive the copyright owner of their right to sale, much like a human rights violation.
      You devalue others' copy of the work, much like counterfeiting money.
      You gain a financial advantage by deception, much like a con artist.
      You gain ownership of a product that you do not have the right to, much like the moral definition of stealing.

      Sorry, I don't have a catchy rhyme to go with it. Just a "fuck you" and the righteous Generation Me horse you rode in on.

  3. Only works on campus... by Neffirithion · · Score: 1

    I know its stated in TFA, but such regulations only effect on campus students, and at a school like mine, that's only about 5-10% of the total student body. So this regulation most likely has absolutely no effect on 90% of the students. And even the freshmen on campus know the ways around it, one of my friends always just uses the wireless of his off campus fraternity house to do all of his illegal downloading.

    1. Re:Only works on campus... by RapmasterT · · Score: 1

      I know its stated in TFA, but such regulations only effect on campus students, and at a school like mine, that's only about 5-10% of the total student body. So this regulation most likely has absolutely no effect on 90% of the students. And even the freshmen on campus know the ways around it, one of my friends always just uses the wireless of his off campus fraternity house to do all of his illegal downloading.

      Before reading this article, and your post as well, I had no idea that college students were so F'ing clueless and helpless. For even 10% of the student body to feel in any way limited by these regulations baffles me to no end.

    2. Re:Only works on campus... by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      A large number of universities require students to live in on-campus housing for the first two years, pushing the percentage up towards 50% (though there's of course an exemption for people whose families are in the area).

    3. Re:Only works on campus... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never mind that any student with a wireless laptop can bring his DC++ client to campus any time he wants.

  4. And yet by kyrio · · Score: 0

    the sharing of digital media will go on.

  5. sneakernet filesharing by Rob+Bos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If nothing else, there's always USB keys. Now pushing 128GB. My coworkers and I trade entire television shows pretty regularly.

    Who needs fileservers? Sneakernet is becoming more and more efficient.

    1. Re:sneakernet filesharing by imperious_rex · · Score: 1

      USB drives?? Think bigger. A 1 TB external HD is far more effective if physical size and convenience of portability are less of a concern. I'm sure many co-workers and college dorm students already share files via external hard drives.

    2. Re:sneakernet filesharing by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Bring your portable deskside tower with the three 2TB hard drives and the pair of gigabit ethernets to a gamer meet, sometime. Just be sure you are properly configured for IPv6 for the premium stuff.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:sneakernet filesharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pretty much. For example, I just got a 1tb hard drive off a friend filled to the brim with movies, who in turn got the movies from a friend via external drive. The other day I went to a mate's house to pick up about 500gb of movies & tv shows. I'm not sure about other countries but in Australia, where we have very limited caps, "sneakernet" is very very common within under 30's.

    4. Re:sneakernet filesharing by shadowbearer · · Score: 2, Informative

        Indeed. External drive enclosures with SSD's are getting down to the size of a small paperback book. Easily concealable, and even more easy to dump in a garbage can somewhere without losing much, if it becomes necessary.

        Maybe not as "convenient" for some people as broadband sharing is, but nearly un-prosecutable, given how common and how inexpensive drives of large capacity are becoming.

        Once again, technology is bypassing antiquated business models and the efforts of those who hold to them to keep the status quo. Damned shame that the politicians are mostly ignorant of the ramifications of said technology.

        They, too, are becoming antiquated.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    5. Re:sneakernet filesharing by Krneki · · Score: 1

      When you have an optic line in your home you don't need removable media.

      USB and CD's are so 20th century. :)

      I have my own FTP, SSH and torrent WEB GUI accessible to all my friends. You can torrent from every place on earth, firewalls can't stop you, the only limitation is your bandwidth.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    6. Re:sneakernet filesharing by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      It is when you arent watching the commercials in them on live TV, or paying for them on DVD.

      the copyright holders get payed for a show when a TV channel wants to air it.

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    7. Re:sneakernet filesharing by DynamicPhil · · Score: 1
      Absolutely.

      As mentioned - the space requirement for copying the most outrageous amount of files can be met with a couple of 2TB discs.

      And - more intresting, filling the speed requirement:

      We will have SuperSpeed USB 3 going mainstream soon (with theoretical transfer speeds of 4.8 Gbps) .
      Lets put that in perspective. Depending on that products (HDD's, controllers, external cabinets) appear which could support these transfer speeds,
      we could look at speeds where filling a 2TB disc would take 10-15 minutes. Minutes, guys.

      That's 15 minutes to grab 75 single layer 27Bg Blue-ray movies, or 400 5GB DVD .ISO's, without any compression.

      Prediction: Sneakernet will be hard beaten, in terms of speed, security and capacity.
      Only con I'm able to see is availability, where nothing beats the internet.

      --
      "If it can be thought up, there exists at least one person trying to make it happen for real" - Phil
    8. Re:sneakernet filesharing by Aresvistadotcom · · Score: 1

      I use Ares Vista to find my music. It's a clean music sharing website . I was able to increase the size of my electronic music library . Check it out, my friends dig it.

  6. That's basically what we did by IICV · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's basically what we did when I went to college. Someone would host the DC++ server, and everyone else would connect to it and share files over it. You had to have 1 GB of shared files to join.

    ResNet didn't give a shit, and in fact for a couple of years the guy who hosted the server was about as high up in ResNet as a student can get. We were using a ton of bandwidth, but as long as it was on the internal on-campus network they didn't care. In fact, I heard that we were kind of wink-and-nudge supported by the actual network administrators - college students are going to pirate stuff anyway, so they'd far prefer we do it on the local network, and leave the gathering of new materials to guys who'll use a VPN to a dedicated usenet box.

    1. Re:That's basically what we did by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At my school, we just used SMB shares. This article reminds me of the time we were discussing the possibility of building a machine to replace that of a graduating senior, just so the location of his massive Simpsons collection wouldn't change. I also remember very fondly when I heard in conversation that my machine was down over the weekend - from a person I had never met before, and who didn't know when he mentioned it that he was talking about my machine.. When your computer is known by people before you yourself are, that's an achievement. :)

      So really, all this article has accomplished is to fill my Sunday afternoon with waves of happy nostalgia. Was I supposed to be shocked and outraged?

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    2. Re:That's basically what we did by Da+Cheez · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We have the same system with DC++ here, including support from ResNet, though the minimum share level is 5GB. Problem now is that since the system is tolerated by the admins, to cover their own skins (understandably) file sharing has been restricted to non-copyrighted files, with violators being permanently banned from DC++. As such it's hardly used anymore except for finding things like Linux distros without cutting into internet bandwidth allotment, and sneakernet's becoming more popular again.

    3. Re:That's basically what we did by loufoque · · Score: 1

      It was much simpler at my school. We just used windows (samba) shares.
      And then there was a server that did some indexing and allowed to search for files.

    4. Re:That's basically what we did by CSFFlame · · Score: 1

      Greetings my UC brothers

    5. Re:That's basically what we did by /dev/trash · · Score: 0, Troll

      No, you should be in jail.

    6. Re:That's basically what we did by thepike · · Score: 1

      That's what we had too. I was an RA, I used it, my friends who worked for computer services used it, everyone did. The administration would crack down on people using limewire etc., but they basically tolerated DC++ because it was internal, so they never got in trouble for it. At one RA training someone asked the head of the computer system if DC++ was legal. He just stared at him for a minute, said "I have no idea what you're talking about," and walked out of the room. We gave that RA crap for a while, but it pretty much summed up the administration's opinion on the subject.

      I had friends off campus who just put up their own networks with shared drives instead. If you were friends with them, you got read/write access to those drives and could add your music to it or take what you wanted. Again, no one who wasn't part of it could tell, aside from the high bandwidth use, so no one cared.

      It's like the rebirth of the know-nothing party, but without the racial idiocy

    7. Re:That's basically what we did by my+$anity++0 · · Score: 1
      Heh. Sounds like my school.

      Though I don't think a dedicated usenet box is necessary to get new files. I can torrent as much as I want, so long as I pull the .torrent files through some sort of external connection. I use a fancier solution than I have to (ssh tunnel to a desktop at my house), but getting an out of school friend to e-mail a zipped .torrent would work as well. Then I make sure to set up encryption (God does that make things go slow...more people need to use encrypted torrents) and I enjoy ridiculous share ratios.

    8. Re:That's basically what we did by hansbrix · · Score: 1

      Are you a helluva engineer?

    9. Re:That's basically what we did by hipp5 · · Score: 1

      When your computer is known by people before you yourself are, that's an achievement.

      When I was in res one of the guys on my floor was a big purveyor of porn on DC++. I'm not sure he actually ever added to the collection, but he was certainly the central repository for anything that got added. Anyway, my friends and I were talking about him at a party and this guy comes up and says, "I'm sorry, but did I just hear that you know OptimusPorn!!!!" Highlight of my first year right there.

    10. Re:That's basically what we did by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say jail is merited, but yeah, what I did was wrong. On the other hand, now that I have the means, I buy good movies/games/music. It was simply that at the time, I was broke (as is pretty much any college student), so I couldn't buy these things the way I wanted to (and yes, I did want to).

      None of this changes the fact that it was a lot of fun, though.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    11. Re:That's basically what we did by dangitman · · Score: 1

      When your computer is known by people before you yourself are, that's an achievement.

      Most people would consider that an anti-achievement in social skills. That's nerds for you, I guess.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    12. Re:That's basically what we did by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. Not having met someone can simply mean that the proper circumstances haven't occurred (you haven't had a mutual friend, or been brought together by circumstance otherwise).

      I guess you're correct that most people would see it that way, but then again, they're wrong.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    13. Re:That's basically what we did by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Eh, back circa ~2000 there were the usual SMB shares used by most students. You'd find the occasional decent collection of software, porn, music, and movies this way.

      The entire campus (small private college) had a T1 to share, so people did use these shares liberally. Even then, things could get a little congested (I seem to recall that our dorm was on two 48-port 10BT hubs). I doubt it'd have been half as popular if we had bandwidth to spare with things like Pandora and Hulu.

      However, there was also the "OOB" file sharing: you had to know the server owner(s) to gain access, which usually meant you had to be a friend or a friend of a friend who had a sizable amount of data to contribute. Eventually the system(s) got moved to the campus server room where the better switching equipment was, on account of one of the server owners being a senior and a sysadmin there.

      I'm not so sure I'm as nostalgic about it as you are, but then I was sharing files over SMB on my cable provider two years before that, back at home, at close to 10-base-T speeds. And these days, the effort to find stuff online is comparable to what it was back then on the private networks - assuming you knew the right people - but there's a lot more of it, and much of it is being offered by its owners, free for the taking or for a nominal cost (porn, movies, TV shows, etc.). It's not worth the effort anymore.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    14. Re:That's basically what we did by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      When your computer is known by people before you yourself are, that's an achievement.

      Most people would consider that an anti-achievement in social skills. That's nerds for you, I guess.

      Having a social life is totally different than achieving something. To create something, and have your creation become widely known and respected, without you saying "hey everybody, look at this thing I made!" is a good feeling - whether it's a painting or a novel or a piece of software or a social networking web site or a search engine or a college porn server.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    15. Re:That's basically what we did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was in res one of the guys on my floor was a big purveyor of porn on DC++... this guy comes up and says, "I'm sorry, but did I just hear that you know OptimusPorn!!!!" Highlight of my first year right there.

      I was "that guy" first year of uni. One day I'm in a cafe on campus and overhear this:

      "Hey, did you hear, some guy on the dc hub has over THREE YEARS worth of porn!"

      I didn't go say anything, but the other patrons probably wondered why I was grinning like an idiot.

    16. Re:That's basically what we did by Ornlu · · Score: 1

      We had a DC++ dedicated server. It was set up some time in the 90's, and circulated from one student's dorm to another each semester. Eventually the guy who built it hid it in the basement of the EE department, and it managed to get a 3+ year up time after he left. There was 1+ petabyte of shares between the 4 of 5 thousand students who used it (it was a huge university). The few guys who were running 4+ TB setups were pegging their uploads out at 10 mb/s all years long. There were also guys who lived off campus, who would download the new material a la BitTorrent or legitimate DVD rips, and bring it in via USB HDD.

      The coolest part was probably that it actually became a social network, since everyone there was pretty much of the same social status (these were pre-facebook times). Only about 25% of campus managed to figure it out, since DC++ has basically no user interface. This just served to keep the "social network" a little geeky, but not too bad. There were lots of good conversations of esoteric bands like Black Flag and the Ozric Tentacles, or just classic sci-fi like The Day the Earth Stood Still or Blade Runner. All in all, good times.

      I'm a little shocked though that the source is just now picking this up. The biggest disadvantage of the DC++ networks was that they absolutely didn't work except in the dorms. I graduated a few years ago, I took 2 extra years to graduate, and I only lived in the dorms freshman year. Which means that this has been going on for 8+ years.

    17. Re:That's basically what we did by KevinIsOwn · · Score: 1

      Alumnus shout out from Colony Manor :)

    18. Re:That's basically what we did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By how and what you said, I know what college you went to. I'm still there. We're over 150TB now. I expect next year to end with 300TB+ at least (though a lot is duplicate content).

      Too bad i2hub was shutdown. That was a network between a bunch of different colleges.

    19. Re:That's basically what we did by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Sharing internally reduces the chance of malware infection from internet-based file sharing networks to zero.

      I'd support it, too.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  7. A perk of college life? by RapmasterT · · Score: 1, Interesting

    WTF does that mean? Sounds like college students are still as arrogant and clueless about life in the real world as when I was one 20+ years ago.

    There's no shortage of file sharing outside of college campus networks, life in the real world just doesn't spoon feed you.

    1. Re:A perk of college life? by mindbrane · · Score: 2, Funny

      life in the real world just doesn't spoon feed you.

      where did you hear that? is it an age thing? at what age should i be looking for that to kick in? is there an opt out? man that doesn't sound good.

      --
      ideopath @ play
    2. Re:A perk of college life? by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 1

      I think the point was that it is centralized and easy to access. You don't have to hit multiple torrent sites, hope enough seeders are on, worry about campus firewalls, log on to warez sites, or trade USB keys like mentioned above. . . you just sit down, connect to the server, and start browsing.

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    3. Re:A perk of college life? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to mention 100Mbit or sometimes gigabit transfer speeds.

    4. Re:A perk of college life? by Skapare · · Score: 1

      There's also tons of sharing going on just before and after (and often during), gamer meets (which usually have 2 or 3 bands of wireless channels all clogged up in addition to multiple gigabit and sometimes 10 gigabit ad-hoc LANs).

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    5. Re:A perk of college life? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like 40 year olds are still just as arrogant and clueless about the world of universities as they were 20+ years ago.

      I bet it makes you feel tough thinking you have more real world experience at 40 than a 20 year old though, right?

  8. But they're making it easier by Rix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Napster/Grokster lawsuits spawned BitTorrent. Killing suprnova caused a bloom of (better) torrent aggregator sites.

    Excessive use of antibiotics just gets you antibiotic resistant strains.

    1. Re:But they're making it easier by DesScorp · · Score: 1

      The Napster/Grokster lawsuits spawned BitTorrent. Killing suprnova caused a bloom of (better) torrent aggregator sites.

      Excessive use of antibiotics just gets you antibiotic resistant strains.

      Interesting that you compare piracy to disease. Freudian slip?

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    2. Re:But they're making it easier by Spad · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's evolution, baby.

    3. Re:But they're making it easier by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Excessive use of antibiotics just gets you antibiotic resistant strains.

      Sure, and if you have an incurable disease affecting one limb, as a last resort you amputate rather than allow the disease to endanger the entire system.

      If you think the pirate community is going to overcome the entire weight of the legal profession, the political players and the big money spinners through sheer force of arrogant denial, then I suspect some time in the next two or three years, you are going to learn a painful lesson. I'm only sorry that quite a few innocent people are going to be deeply inconvenienced when the remaining healthy tissue in the limb is sacrificed to be sure the disease is contained.

      In the long run, of course copyright in its current form will have to evolve. That is already recognised and as the political climate adapts to this reality the balance will slowly but surely swing back to something more reasonable. But first, I expect there are going to be some nasty, nasty laws passed, and some horrendous and high profile punishments handed down to people as examples, and a lot of people are going to get scary letters and realise that they aren't as safely anonymous and immune to consequences as they thought, and a lot of mostly young people are going to get the point.

      I suspect that regardless of the ethics or practical merits of copyright reform, such a shock would be no bad thing in the long run. We have a generation growing up today who have never known a world without the Internet and mobile phones and social networks and P2P. In far too many cases, they have a sense of assumed entitlement, a lack of awareness of privacy, poor manners, problems with social interactions in the real world, an obvious dependence on technology instead of self-reliance, an assumption that the way to do well academically is to cheat on-line instead of actually learning stuff, poor fitness and health because they spend more time playing with electronics and less time playing sport, and a whole bunch of other unhealthy trends. If this continues, that whole generation is going to be royally screwed, but because they are effectively children thrown into an adult world before they are fully prepared for the consequences, they are like the frogs that haven't noticed the water around them boiling. The kind of discussion about copyright here is just one symptom of a greater malaise, and the longer it goes untreated, the worse the prognosis becomes.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:But they're making it easier by russotto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you think the pirate community is going to overcome the entire weight of the legal profession, the political players and the big money spinners through sheer force of arrogant denial, then I suspect some time in the next two or three years, you are going to learn a painful lesson. I'm only sorry that quite a few innocent people are going to be deeply inconvenienced when the remaining healthy tissue in the limb is sacrificed to be sure the disease is contained.

      You think they'll sacrifice computers and the internet to save the music and movie industry? Sorry, there's a lot of them who would like to, but it's just not going to happen. And the legal profession will fight for any side; they're hired guns in this, not interested parties.

    5. Re:But they're making it easier by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      No, I think they will sacrifice the relatively free and open Internet we have today in favour of a system they control with compulsory censorship and/or supervision, combined with laws that allow for major punishment of those who commit minor infringements without the usual safeguards and due process.

      If you don't think this can happen because "the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it", I would remind you that:

      • The biggest international copyright negotiations since the WIPO treaties are currently underway, in secret, and clearly influenced by special interest groups.
      • Several countries, including the US and several in the EU, have recently passed consumer-hostile legislation imposing increasingly draconian measures for copyright infringement regardless of the scale or actual damages caused.
      • Several countries have already introduced mandatory filtering/censorship capabilities, usually under the heading "think of the children" but that doesn't matter because the technology is there.
      • Several countries already have their own "Great Firewall" and more are lining up to provide it, so expecting that you can keep things like P2P hubs or Wikileaks in foreign countries without such laws and maintain the links to them may be unwise.
      • Laws are being proposed to mandate spyware, which you can bet will also restrict the use of "dubious" alternative systems like Linux and OSS if they get passed, but they may not matter because everyone from Microsoft to Apple is already sucking up to Big Media and locking down their platforms voluntarily anyway.
      • And of course, there are a very small number of very large service providers who ultimately run the show, and it is relatively easy to coerce such organisations into doing the government's bidding in all these ways, as we saw with, for example, the whole illegal wiretapping scandal in the US.

      This sucks, and it's completely undemocratic, and it's completely unethical. But it's also the reality, and it's going to be for the immediate future, until enough people in the real world get upset that it becomes a big enough issue to register at election time and the political climate starts to change.

      And the legal profession will fight for any side; they're hired guns in this, not interested parties.

      Sure they are. And more of them have been hired by any one of the big record labels than by all the geeks in the world, and they are on retainers, and they have all the time in the world to make your life a misery, and as it stands today the legal system is so one-sided in some places (notably including the US) that this is sufficient for them to win.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    6. Re:But they're making it easier by russotto · · Score: 1

      No, I think they will sacrifice the relatively free and open Internet we have today in favour of a system they control with compulsory censorship and/or supervision, combined with laws that allow for major punishment of those who commit minor infringements without the usual safeguards and due process.

      I think that even if they manage to do so, it won't stop piracy. Or even slow it down all that much.

    7. Re:But they're making it easier by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      To summarise your argument: This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things.

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    8. Re:But they're making it easier by tftp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think they will sacrifice the relatively free and open Internet we have today

      In context of this article it won't do a thing. If you have thousands of students living together, they don't need Internet to trade songs. The horse - an exact digital copy - has left the barn long ago; MP3 codec and pocket-sized multi-gigabyte players just make it practical. There is a a huge mass of music out there - essentially everything is there - and if the government introduces artificial scarcity by clamping down on copying then students will make sure to copy and store *everything* they come across, even if they don't like the music - just because it may be harder to do in the future.

      Internet is important only for geeks who don't meet anyone, ever. But such geeks are probably sophisticated enough to get what they need - the government will be using a pretty rough net; they can monitor standard ports, but they can't look into SCP traffic or decode everything that is posted in a.b.*.encrypted, or try to figure out why foo.o is 4 MB long and the linker says it's corrupted, while foo.c is just "void foo() {}" ...

      Laws are being proposed to mandate spyware, which you can bet will also restrict the use of "dubious" alternative systems like Linux and OSS if they get passed

      All the spyware in the world is useless on a computer that is not on the network. With prices of computers going down fast, it is not unreasonable to see more and more people having two computers - one for Internet and one without a network card. The government would need to set up a Computer Police to bust doors and search premises (since a 1 TB portable drive fits in a shirt pocket.)

    9. Re:But they're making it easier by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        That's an excellent analogy (antibiotics). Has anyone in the sociological fields, I wonder, ever thought of it that way? Because it makes a lot of sense when applied to human stubbornness ;)

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    10. Re:But they're making it easier by Aklyon · · Score: 1

      a wall built?, you can find someone to smash it.
      annoying "protection"? you can easily get around it if you look in the right places.
      mandated spyware? easily tricked, eventually.
      The Streisand Effect.

      If you deny it, it will become more interesting, whether you want it to or not. They need to learn this.

      --
      I reserve the right to have a physical object so I can sell it later, and recover my money.
    11. Re:But they're making it easier by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      That's odd, I seem to remember the copyright debate starting with visionaries like Frank Zappa in the 70's, and the systems we now support being initially defined by people like RMS in the early 80's. It's major current proponents are people like Cory Doctorow and Larry Lessig... I am not exactly seeing a lot of "naive children" on the list there...

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    12. Re:But they're making it easier by isorox · · Score: 1

      The Napster/Grokster lawsuits spawned BitTorrent. Killing suprnova caused a bloom of (better) torrent aggregator sites.

      Indeed. I missed a fringe episode the other day as Sky One changed the time it was on. Wikipedia told me the name of the episode, a google for "fringe jacksonville torrent" gave me a link to one which downloaded quickly, all was saved, and we can now continue to watch the recorded episodes later in the week.

  9. I sadly miss it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I transfered schools last semester, and among the things I miss from my old Engineering/Comp Sci centric school was "the network". At first there was a website somebody hosted which has a list of IPs to connect to which hosted various files, from old movies, new movies, just released games, one server hosting nothing but porn, and even programs we would normally have to go to campus computers to use, like Inventor or Solidworks, and also PDFs of books and the answer books for the math courses. Some went so far as to upload their homework for classes.

    It was definitely illegal, as well as constituting academic dishonesty if you wanted to, but fuck was it awesome. IT there had to know about it, but since they blocked torrenting, making it a hassle to do, people set that up and uploaded things usually got from going home for the weekend. I believe the reasons IT didn't block it was that they were using it too, and that it kept bandwidth down (the reason they blocked torrenting wasn't really because of DMCA notices, but rather because 90% of their bandwidth was being used by 10% of their users.)

    It really was a geek's paradise.

    1. Re:I sadly miss it by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      mmm heavy torrenters (whether downloading legal or illegal torrents but there aren't all that many legal ones out there) are a nightmare from a network point of view. Thats why so many providers take steps to deprioritise, throttle or even outright block it.

      TCP/IP works on the principle of throttling back when it sees congestion. If every connection follows the same rules for throttling back (and there is no traffic shaping in place) then every connection will get about the same amount of bandwidth.

      A bittorrent client in use by a heavy torrenter is likely to have multiple downloads going on AND multiple connections for each download. Therefore it can grab a very large share of the available bandwidth compared to a more conventional app that uses one connection at a time.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    2. Re:I sadly miss it by cynyr · · Score: 1

      really I wouldn't mind some extension for TCP/IP that allows "bonding" multiple connections into one for the purposes of handling that throttling. The way it is i keep looking for an easy way to do it just inside my house, so that bittorrent can use 100% of the remaining bandwidth, but hulu/netflix/WoW all still work fine. I can mostly get it to work by setting my outbound to about 1/3 of my total outbound and my inbound to 1/2 of my total inbound, but that will only work on one computer torrenting at a time.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  10. who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    why are these colleges worrying about piracy of movies and music, does society benefit from the creation of the vacuous nonsense that is entertainment? does humanity progress by the creation of these petty distractions? No? then screw them, why should we worry about the moral integrity surrounding superfluous crap.

  11. Sneakernet and LAN, bro by dcposch · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm a sophomore undergraduate at a relatively large university in California, and the volume of filesharing I see my classmates engage in is enormous.

    Most of the discussion about filesharing (here on Slashdot and elsewhere) seems to focus on P2P, but in my experience BitTorrent/Gnutella/P2P darknets are just the tip of the iceberg.

    The vast majority of the filesharing volume I see here is by sneakernet and private servers. The house I live in has a server with upwards of 3 TB of movies and music; all of our residents can log in.

    I've seen people merge their own several-GB collections with the collection on the server. Last year, I lived in a frosh dormitory; there was no server, but it was common for people to lend each other iPods or merge media collections on each other's laptops. That kind of sharing takes a few minutes to transfer a few GB--it's on an entirely different plane from the type of sharing the RIAA and MPAA focus on, transferring one song or one movie at a time over P2P.

    Incidentally, the media server setup I described is not unique to the house I live in--most of the houses and some of the dorms at my university have one; nor is it unique to colleges and universities--the startup I interned at two years ago had one, too.

    So when the RIAA/MPAA sues a single mom for her kid's Kazaa downloads, I see it as beating a dead horse. The real sharing is on the scale of GB and TB at a time, not individual songs. On the rare occasion when I do find something missing from the media libraries I have access to, I'll torrent it using PeerGuardian to block corporate IPs, so I'm unlikely to show up on any logs the RIAA keeps.

    By focusing their legal efforts on P2P users, I think that the media cartels may have drawn out the battle while losing the war. Yes, we're more reticent now to use BitTorrent. But we've merely moved to faster, more local, less traceable forms of sharing.

    1. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the rare occasion when I do find something missing from the media libraries I have access to, I'll torrent it using PeerGuardian to block corporate IPs, so I'm unlikely to show up on any logs the RIAA keeps.

      What perpetuates this wrongful line of thinking?

    2. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reward. It works, so they keep doing it.

    3. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by FMA1394 · · Score: 1

      At RIT, our university almost encourages usage of Direct Connect, as otherwise, there would be so many people using the pirate bay that the internet would crash on a daily basis. No joke. The University specifically told everyone that as long as you don't get in legal trouble, they won't give a shit. Enjoy your limewire, torrents, DC++, etc (use peerblock), because nobody cares here.

    4. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by plover · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have to ask: do you see filesharing to be kind of like pot-smoking, in that "some other people say it's wrong, but it isn't hurting anyone else, so who cares?" Do you believe it's wrong, but participate anyway? Or do you actually believe it's a right that's being wrongly suppressed?

      If it's either of the first of those, why do you think it is that nobody challenges the ethics of these private servers? Do you not have any peers whose moral code says "No, filesharing is wrong, you guys are ripping off my favorite band, I'm turning you in to the ethics board?" Are you're saying that really, out of the thousands of students your university, and of every other university situation you are aware of, that not a single student complains about the inappropriateness of it?

      I'm not trying to fish for snitches or get anyone in trouble with this question, but I'm just pretty much surprised that nobody complains. Not even the sons or daughters of (RI|MP)AA execs or artists, whose very education might be paid for by the media being copied?

      --
      John
    5. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but it isn't hurting anyone else huh???

    6. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by straponego · · Score: 1

      You're going to hear this a lot, but it's a horrible, horrible thing you're doing and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

      Also, what do you like for de-duping?

    7. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by plover · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I assume you took exception to the word "else." Smoking weed delivers more tar and carcinogens into the body than smoking tobacco. This can cause health problems just as surely as smoking cigarettes, but since it's not smoked in the same quantities as tobacco, (and is not physically addictive,) the danger and damage is usually a lot lower. But you're fooling yourself if you think pot is 100% harmless.

      --
      John
    8. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know people who collectively share around 7TB+ of video (and music too, but video's the one everyone wants). It's all on private servers hosted in every living group on my campus. I used to torrent stuff, but on my own server I have 1+TBs of video that I won't get through for another year, and then I'll talk to the admin of another box and we'll swap drives and copy everything again. There are literally thousands of students on my campus who know about this, and given that no admin has ever said anything about how this is bad, I can only assume that out of the thousands of students at my technical school who know of these servers, no one cares and they just want their digital content. Also, Hulu. Too bad the good shows are leaving Hulu; it's time to go back to torrenting.

    9. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by dcposch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think it's not a question of ethics, and here's why: you can't share a secret with a million people and expect them to keep it.

      The idea that you can "lend" something that consists purely of a stream of bits (such as a song or video) to someone, or sell it to them while preventing them from sharing it, is a myth. (Software is a bit different, because software is more than just bits; for example, MS does have partial success in getting people to pay for Windows by denying pirates the aspects of Windows that are a service, such as Windows Update.) It's fundamentally impossible; this manifests itself, for example, in the way DRM schemes consistently turn out to be weak.

      I think that actions can be moral, and they can be legal; fortunately, there is strong correlation between the two. However there are actions that are legal but not moral, and there are actions that are morally acceptable but not legal. I think that filesharing falls into the latter category. I think that most people on Slashdot would agree with me: copyright law is the result of corporations' desire for guaranteed profit, not necessarily the result of artist's needs and certainly not a reflection of moral truths.

      Information wants to be free. I see piracy as a temporary condition, a response to a legal system that's currently in deep denial. The sooner we fix it, the better, both for artists and for consumers.

    10. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Information wants to be free.

      How can information want anything? It's not a sentient being. You also ignore all the information that's been forgotten, been buried, and kept secret over the centuries.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    11. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      " Or do you actually believe it's a right that's being wrongly suppressed?"

      Until public domain is taken back from all the IP industries piracy is one of the few things we can due to resist the corporate dictatorship. We have closed codebases for abandonware that can't be repaired and the whole concept of software licensing is fraudulent to begin with since no one really owns their software and that should have been illegal to begin with to "outlaw" ownership of things your customers buy.

    12. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Why would file sharing be an ethics violation?

      I've never see any ethics board that suggested you should wander up and report people for random crimes, much less hypothetical random civil offensives against random other people.

      'Hi, yes, ethics board? I'd like to report Alpha Sigma Pi for ethics violations. They have an ankle deep hole in their front yard. ... No, I'm not trying to call plant maintenance, I'm trying to report unethical behavior. ... Why is it unethical? Well, if someone goes to knock on their door and gets hurt in they can sue, duh. So that makes it unethical ... Hello? Hello?'

      Ethic boards, and the law, are entirely unrelated to each other.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    13. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By focusing their legal efforts on P2P users, I think that the media cartels may have drawn out the battle while losing the war. Yes, we're more reticent now to use BitTorrent. But we've merely moved to faster, more local, less traceable forms of sharing.

      I'm a departmental IT admin at a large state university, and I wish our kids would get the memo about using the standard "easy to catch" protocols. Since I'm a departmental asset, my goal is to keep our servers up and running along with some user support duties and the occasional bit of web programming. I have no interest in seeing our students nailed for being stupid.

      Every semester approximately 600 cease and desist letters go out to folks as our security people cooperate vigorously with the RIAA/MPAA/FBI/Whathaveyou. Ignore that letter? Well, the going rate is either you pay up about four grand, or they'll fight you in court and you'll likely lose while incurring some serious expenses for that JD equipped mouthpiece.

      What's worse is that now we've got so-called freelance "bounty hunters" in the mix, and they're stirring up shit as well. I believe some of them may be university students picking up extra dough while ratting out their peers.

    14. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Perhaps more important, almost no one smokes pot around other people who are not smoking pot. It being illegal and all.

      The exposure to unwanted second-hand smoke from pot is so microscopic that I suspect people having an allergic reaction to other people's perfumes has killed more people. I suspect allergic reactions to pollen have killed more people. When someone says 'Your cigarette smoking is bothering me, please stop', people can say no. When someone says 'Your pot smoking is bothering, stop or I'll call the police', it's a lot harder to refuse.

      Of course, the dangers of secondhand smoke at, at this point, grossly overestimated by the public. Secondhand smoke is an issue if you're operating for more than an hour a day in a room with smokers, like bars and stuff. I'm all for banning it indoors if anyone has to be in that environment.

      But secondhand smoke is not an issue when someone is smoking outside next to the doors you have to walk through four times a day, for a grand total of being within ten feet for them for five seconds while outside, and attempting to banish smokers halfway across the street or entirely from the property is just assholery. You're more likely to get cancer from the commute or the PCBs in the paint in your wall.

      And I say this as someone who has never smoked in his entire life, but is willing to say 'Okay, fellow non-smokers, we stopped our risk from that shit. They can't smoke in the room I'm in and fill it with smoke. And now we're just doing stuff to smokers out of spite.'

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    15. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      The fact information has to be 'buried' or 'kept' secret really just disproved the point you were trying to make. That's like saying 'Prisoners don't want to be free, plenty of people are kept locked in prison right now.' No one said information succeeded at being free. ;)

      But, yes, information that people make an active effort that others do not know can be suppressed. Likewise, information that no one cares about can just vanish on its own.

      Sadly, that fact doesn't really help people trying to make their living selling information. They can't run around 'secretifying' their information.

      The question isn't whether information can been kept out of anyone's hands...the question is, can be it be placed in people's hands but those people somehow stopped from passing it to others?

      And 'information wants to be free' is simply anthropomorphizing. It's like saying 'liquids want find a level'. Liquids don't 'want' anything, but gravity makes them 'act' as if they're 'trying' to be flattened out. Likewise, humans spread information as if it wants to be free, when that isn't the goal of the information or even the people!

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    16. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You go piss off a bunch of college students you're living with. Hope to see you back . . . Alive.

    17. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Fourth option: whether or not filesharing is wrong, using the legal system to nuke the peasants into the poorhouse is just plain evil.

      Funny you should mention the sons and daughters of the execs and artists - they fileshare too. The following is an excerpt from Adam Pasick interviewing Warner Music chief executive Edgar Bronfman: http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2006/12/01/warner-music-boss-edgar-bronfman/

      AP: So, you have seven children, have you ever caught any of them using Gnutella or Limewire or the P2P network?

      EB: I have. I explained to them what I believe is right, that the principle involved is that stealing music is stealing music. Frankly, right is right and wrong is wrong, particularly when a parent is talking to a child, a bright line around moral responsibility is very important. I can assure you they no longer do that.

      Further context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Bronfman,_Jr.#Music_piracy

      I can assure Edgar that if his children are intelligent enough, they can see the hypocrisy in the system.

    18. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by macshit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have to ask: do you see filesharing to be kind of like pot-smoking, in that "some other people say it's wrong, but it isn't hurting anyone else, so who cares?" Do you believe it's wrong, but participate anyway? Or do you actually believe it's a right that's being wrongly suppressed?

      If it's either of the first of those, why do you think it is that nobody challenges the ethics of these private servers? Do you not have any peers whose moral code says "No, filesharing is wrong, you guys are ripping off my favorite band, I'm turning you in to the ethics board?" Are you're saying that really, out of the thousands of students your university, and of every other university situation you are aware of, that not a single student complains about the inappropriateness of it?

      I'm not trying to fish for snitches or get anyone in trouble with this question, but I'm just pretty much surprised that nobody complains. Not even the sons or daughters of (RI|MP)AA execs or artists, whose very education might be paid for by the media being copied?

      I think that's pretty much reason that everybody around here seems so confident that the RIAA and their ilk are going to lose in the end -- for the vast majority of people, sharing of "trivial" stuff like music really isn't a bad thing; at most, it's just sort of "wink-wink-nudge-nudge wrong".

      Even the industry's attempts to demonize it (like happened with marijuana) are ineffective, because it's something that most people have already done themselves, so they know in their gut that it's a natural and healthy thing. The histrionic pronouncements and clumsy flailing about by the RIAA may even weaken their case, as they simply don't ring true.

      The pop music industry's traditional emphasis on trying to promote mega-stars may have hurt their case too, as it's hard to feel very guilty about copying a song by someone who's obviously mega-rich and flaunts their excessive lifestyle (and in many cases seems far more concerned with the lifestyle than the music). If it were humble local bands who were coming out against copying, maybe there would be at few pangs of guilt -- but AFAICT, it's the relatively unknown bands who are most likely to support sharing of their songs.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    19. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Why would file sharing be an ethics violation?

      If an artist chooses to attempt to earn their living by selling small shares of their work (our current system), rather than all at once (commissions), they are dependent upon people upholding the integrity of that system. When you grab a copy of someone's music (for example), and refuse to pay for it, it is much as if you forced someone to build you a chair without compensation. You are reaping the benefits of their labor without them having been compensated.

      Not all cases of not paying to enjoy someone's music fall into that (for example, you might be in a bar that plays music, but not have paid), but those are generally a case where someone else has compensated the artist for you, so you owe them nothing additionally. There is also a significant difference between temporarily benefiting on someone else's dime, as opposed to having your own copy so that you benefit all the time, whenever you want.

      In essence, if buying someone's music is x% of paying for the whole work, file sharing is x% of forcing them to write music without compensation. That's what makes it unethical, although not something I'd really think is something in the purview of a school's ethics board. That's more for ethics in the classroom.

      Artists don't have a right to be successful, of course, but all that they ask with the current system is that you have the decency to not take a copy if you aren't compensating them for their work. Even if it weren't unethical, it would still be a dick move.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    20. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      I have to ask: do you see filesharing to be kind of like pot-smoking, in that "some other people say it's wrong, but it isn't hurting anyone else, so who cares?" Do you believe it's wrong, but participate anyway? Or do you actually believe it's a right that's being wrongly suppressed?

        I'll bite.

        If one looks at the history of this country and of humanity in general, people do not like being told that they cannot share information - any information, including books, music, etc, with each other. That actually goes a lot deeper than that, in to sharing of religious rites from centuries/millennia ago, but that's a whole book in itself.

        Public libraries came about because there were, and are, people who believe that information should be shared freely. Now there are a lot of people out there who think that books shouldn't be copied, but that's ridiculous. The information, or stories, in a book can be remembered and shared, always have been, so putting restrictions on the information in books being copied is ridiculous.

        Music... well, anyone with sufficient talent can memorize a piece of music, and reproduce it at will. Before the ability to make recordings of music came along, that is how music was shared and passed on. When the technology to record music and replay at one's convenience came along, there was a riot amongst those who felt it was their sole right to produce it.

        Videos... well, the MPAA said many years ago that the VHS industry would destroy the movie making industry. Yeah, right. It revolutionized it. Ditto DVDs, ditto blueray, etc.

        Pot smoking... despite well over half a century of legal suppression of pot, it still thrives.

        There is a (sometimes) powerful minority of people, of many persuasions, who feel that they have to dictate to everyone else what is permissible, and what is not. There are, and always will be, hopefully many, many more people in the future who will tell those powerful (or not) minorities to stuff those ideological ideals up their ass.

        Does the phrase "tilting at windmills" mean anything to you?

        Damn kids.

      SB

       

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    21. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is just like pot here. Upwards of 85% of the student body has smoked pot in the last year and >1% finds it innapropriate (though some may want to avoid it due to legal fears).

      I would be surprised if the numbers for filesharing weren't even higher. My 65 yr old dad uses torrents. In fact everyone but my mom fileshares at least once per week but that is because she is fairly computer illiterate and gets me to give her files. I ran a file server at uni that about 15 people used regularly and at least 100 people knew of without a single complaint.

      I would say with confidence that the moon landing is more contentious a debate than filesharing in Canada.

      It would be surprising, shocking even if musicians themselves (in university) were against filesharing (enough to not fileshare themselves).

    22. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My campus uses the DC++, there are thousands of people here but only around 200 use the hub, it is only passed on by word of mouth, and everyone MUST share, this means you can't snitch because you are just as guilty as everyone else on there. Most of the users are computer science students. The hub currently sits at around 11TB. The hub is run completely buy the university & halls of residence with a little disclaimer saying that they are not responsible for anything shared over the hub.

    23. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like pot smoking, the simple fact is that the general population DON'T CARE about these laws. If no one cares that people are downloading music, then why is it illegal? Do we not live in a democracy?

      The people have spoken, majority rules, get rid of these ip laws. lets free ideas.

    24. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The file sharing network at my university got shut down because of a snitch. Someone complained to the MIPI (Australia's equivalent of the RIAA), who complained to the University, who got the IT admins to issue notices to the host of the DC++ hub and the whole thing got shut down. It didn't resurrect because people were too scared of being snitched on again, and no one wants to risk legal action.

      I'm confident that another one will pop-up once the people who were around then all graduate and no one remembers the snitch.

    25. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by randyleepublic · · Score: 0

      Maybe nobody cares because nobody sees it as wrong. Maybe the concept of copyright needs to be sunsetted. Copyright has always been contrary to natural law, but, for a couple hundred years, its advantages outweighed its costs. Maybe this is no longer true. I know that to a lot of people this is close to saying maybe our ideas about children and sex are outmoded, (and I am NOT saying that!), but to a lot of people, that's how what I am saying hits them. The strength of thier gut-reactions doesn't make their ideas correct. It doesn't make them wrong either, but It does make it likely that their ideas are not well considered. I don't care so much, and in my view it's much ado about nothing. Digital data is the most ephemeral substance I know of. Distribute it? Not unless you want copies made. End of story.

      --
      Social Credit would solve everything...
    26. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      I think you entirely misunderstood my point. I wasn't trying to talk about ethics at all.

      I was pointing out the stupidity of thinking that an 'ethics board' would care about random civil liabilities, unethical or otherwise.

      College ethics boards care about violations of collegiate ethics, which usually solely relate to academic work. Although nowadays they're getting some anti-discrimination nonsense in them, too, which I find stupid for students. Being a bigot is not an academic ethic's violation.

      But they don't care if you blaspheme or jaywalk or cheat at poker or even murder people in your spare time. (Although I'd like to think they'd notify some law enforcement about the 'murdering' thing.)

      The person I was replying to apparently mistook them for some sort of 'ethics police' that would do something about 'generally unethical' behavior. Which is a rather disturbing idea, and is usually found under the more common name 'morality police'.

      Interestingly, ethic policies often contain rules about 'intellectual property' (By which they mean copyright.) for employees to follow. But not for students.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    27. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News flash: The people who like bands like to have easy and cheap access to their music, so turning in the owners of the servers (and subsequently having the servers shut down) goes against their interest of having easily available copies of their favorite bands.

      The people you are talking about pirate music and pay to see them live - just like I did with Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nails; I would have never listened to NIN or gone to a concert if my friend hadn't pirated his music and played it for me, and I hadn't pirated the rest of NIN's music that I like. Without piracy, NIN would be at least one fan less popular (I've now shared NIN's music with the rest of my friends, who have also pirated it, so there is an amplifying effect of piracy with regards to publicity).

      I would even go so far as to say that Trent Reznor is one of the few people that "gets it", because he utilizes giving away some of his music for free so he can hook you into going to his concerts, which is the way it should be. I'm glad he's decided to create his own music label - best of luck to him.

    28. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a student in a New York University; we, too, use a DC network for file sharing. I'd say about 90% of the music and movies I've ever been curious about (since learning about DC) have been available for download in this manner.

      I've talked to more people than I can count who have no computer knowledge beyond the norm for a non-tech major, but who make extensive use of the DC++ network.

      I've never, ever (not even once) heard a word against it, especially not on the morality front. The first question people usually ask in the incorporated DC irc channel is something like "Is this safer than {X}?", where {X} is anything from Bittorrent to Limewire. Once people find out that DC is indeed safer in most ways, they happily pirate to their hearts' content.

      As to how I feel about filesharing (in case anyone was going to ask), I like piracy because it's easy and free; I especially like DC++ because it's easy, free, and [i]low risk[/i]. I don't have trouble sleeping at night because I'm stealing profits from the people who produced the media I enjoy for free, though I acknowledge that I may be doing just that.

    29. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by dangitman · · Score: 1

      The fact information has to be 'buried' or 'kept' secret really just disproved the point you were trying to make.

      How so? For information to want anything, it would need to be able to think, which it can't. It's just an absurd statement, like saying "the color red wants to be red."

      That's like saying 'Prisoners don't want to be free, plenty of people are kept locked in prison right now.'

      No, that comparison doesn't work, as prisoners are thinking beings, who want to be free, and think of freedom. My data doesn't think about trying to escape from my hard drive. In fact, I have to go to great lengths to ensure that I don't lose that data due to hardware failure, etc.

      And 'information wants to be free' is simply anthropomorphizing. It's like saying 'liquids want find a level'.

      Right. It's s fucking stupid thing to say, that compromises other valid arguments that may be made alongside it.

      Likewise, humans spread information as if it wants to be free,

      Some people keep secrets to their grave, so your generalization isn't actually true.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    30. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      I'd advise you to keep quiet about this, especially places where the copyright extortionists can find it. Nobody likes a Narc. It's like how you would post as AC about a "major software company based out of Redmond, WA" instead of saying Microsoft.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    31. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I misunderstood you then. You are entirely correct that no matter where you come down on the issue of copyright infringement, it's not something that the ethics board would mess with.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    32. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by plover · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think it's not a question of ethics, and here's why: you can't share a secret with a million people and expect them to keep it.

      The ease of doing a thing doesn't change the ethics of doing a thing. It's easy to drink and drive, too, but in doing so you place other people at risk. Ease doesn't make it ethical.

      The industry uses DRM to reduce the ease of copying. Breaking the DRM does not grant you the right to copy, only the ability. Whether the music is protected or not, copying it is still unethical.

      In the case of file sharing, you reduce revenue to the artist. Arguments about "I never would have bought it anyway" simply further attests to the ease of file sharing. If you have a copy and listen to it, it obviously has some value to you; but as the producers, they get to set the price. Supply and demand. If you disagree with their asking price, walk away. If you have a copy and don't listen to it, perhaps the next person to download it from you will find value in it. In any case it doesn't change the ethics of your having a copy.

      Complaints about industry greed are not valid arguments. Music is not a basic human need. They are under no obligation to provide you with music, and you will not suffer without it. They may dangle it enticingly in front of you. They may market it with videos of attractive people. But if you want it that badly, go play by their rules, as they created it. If they say "pay us $1,000 for a single song", whether or not they are behaving ethically doesn't change how the ethics apply to you. You always have the ethical choice of walking away without it.

      Complaints that "the industry profits but not the artist" are simply not your problem. If the artist chooses to sign a contract that gives them $250,000 plus 0.1% of all album revenue, and commits them to producing five albums, well, then the artist is stupid and gullible. The label is certainly acting unethically towards the artist. If you don't like it, your ethical choices include not purchasing from the label, picketing the label outside the record store, or creating a Hollywood campaign for artist's rights. Copying their music in no way helps the artist, (and simply further inflates industry arguments about "piracy.") It is in no way an ethical response to the mistreatment of artists.

      Note that it's also not legally permitted to "screw them because they tried to screw you." Our society does not permit acts of revenge or vigilantism. If you have been wronged, the application of justice is reserved exclusively to the courts. (I find it ironic that the movie industry makes billions of dollars off movies that show "villains getting what they deserve" yet complain bitterly when it happens to them.)

      Complaints about copyright law itself are similarly flawed. Copyright has existed in this country for two hundred years, and was not created at the behest of corporations but of artists and authors. The most recent changes have been around the extension of the law well beyond the death of the artist (granted by the Congress on behalf of the Disney corporation.) And the DMCA is primarily punishment around the circumvention of the existing copyright law and stiffer penalties for violations of the law, but didn't really change the foundations of copyright. The law has been there longer than the technology for recording music.

      But if you're saying that "numbers somehow make it ethical", now you're finally on to something. If you say that "90% of people think file sharing is OK, let's change the laws", great. Change the laws. Then it all becomes ethical. Until the law goes away, however, it is not ethical.

      --
      John
    33. Re:Sneakernet and LAN, bro by cynyr · · Score: 1

      All of that should have been shared as widely as possible so that it wouldn't have been forgotten. As for "kept secret" thats usually Gov't stuff, and well I feel that as I "hired" them I should have access to that too, but am somewhat understanding of why some stuff needs to be secret now. I wish there was a "in 50 years this will be released" sort of clause.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  12. Justifiable perk. by harrythefish · · Score: 1

    Since these kids are paying ludicrous costs for their education, are likely to enter a very contracted workforce if they're lucky, whilst competing globally, having future tax obligations thrust upon them to bail out their parents who somehow believed their entitlement to vast amounts of unearned income from housing was justified, at the very least I think society owes them a few shitty Adam Sandler movies. And those attempting to enforce anti-piracy measures should be very aware of who's paying for the generous retirements they promised themselves.

    --
    I like Apple. They make nice stuff which works most of the time.
    1. Re:Justifiable perk. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Since these kids are paying ludicrous costs for their education, are likely to enter a very contracted workforce if they're lucky, whilst competing globally, having future tax obligations thrust upon them to bail out their parents who somehow believed their entitlement to vast amounts of unearned income from housing was justified, at the very least I think society owes them a few shitty Adam Sandler movies.

      You must be a kid. Most college students don't pay the majority of their own tuition themselves, for one thing. And (at public universities in the US, anyway) tuition only covers a minority share of the cost of an education. That percentage has been going up in recent years, but it's still way south of 50% of the cost - taxpayers are paying the majority of it.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Justifiable perk. by harrythefish · · Score: 1

      The taxpayer is also paying a vast amount of interest on debt when it could flip off the private banking community and just get on and get its government to print its own social credit currency.

      --
      I like Apple. They make nice stuff which works most of the time.
  13. My university is happy about our DC network. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At my university (40k students), we have a DC network and the IT here are not just aware of it, but some of the IT guys are the same guys who maintain it. Our university is happy to look the other way because the sharing is virtually undetectable outside the network, and we have plenty of bandwidth in network to move gig files around in seconds while not compromising the connection to the outside world. The less we share outside the DC network, the less letters they get from the RIAA (which they already ignore for the most part).

      By the way, its articles like this that shed light on these networks, which we certainly don't need.

    1. Re:My university is happy about our DC network. by mick232 · · Score: 1

      Same here. The top 3 users in the DC++ network host 9TB, 6TB and 5TB... quite impressive.

    2. Re:My university is happy about our DC network. by mako1138 · · Score: 1

      Back when I was in school, the top sharer (one standout guy) had a measly terabyte. Technology marches on.

    3. Re:My university is happy about our DC network. by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      By the way, its articles like this that shed light on these networks, which we certainly don't need.

      The first rule of usenet...?

    4. Re:My university is happy about our DC network. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Then why the hell are you talking about it?

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  14. Legal Downloading - 57 Resources by Skapare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If we mark off those resources for legal downloading (in the "comprehensive list of alternatives" link at the Educause site) that still don't work with FOSS platforms, how many remain? I know at least Magnatune is among them.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    1. Re:Legal Downloading - 57 Resources by agrif · · Score: 2, Informative

      Magnatune is a really under-appreciated source of good music. They have all of their music available free, online, as creative commons with a short audio blurb at the end. As such, they're totally cool with you using their music in a non-commercial CC work. Additionally, they have a monthly service for only about $15 where you can download as much music as you want in just about every format, including mp3, ogg, and lossless formats. The best part is they're not evil: half of everything goes directly to the artist.

      The music's great too. They have a fine selection of classical, but a lot of other genres too. Off the top of my head I recommend the Seldon Plan, Chris Harvey, and those featured in Braid (Jami Sieber et. al.)

      Okay, sorry about the ad speak. I have a tendency to go overboard about Magnatune... but I just love them so much!

  15. Solutions by lyinhart · · Score: 1

    My school tried a variety of solutions in reaction to P2P file sharing: 1) bandwidth caps for most network traffic outside of the school's network 2) Provided a DRM-encumbered music service for students and 3) developed its own P2P software to share files for "legitimate", "academic" use. It didn't stop illegal file sharing entirely of course, and from what I hear the Resident Life tech support was pretty much complicit in piracy as well. Still, better than nothing.

    --
    Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
    1. Re:Solutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The school I attended tried bandwidth caps. They spent 3 months with two fulltime engineers building and implementing the quota system. Once it was up and running, it worked quite well.
      It took us 2 hours to rig vpn to partially bypass the traffic limit, but they accounted for that and ratelimited the vpn. Finally we switched to IPv6 which they completely forgot and were quotafree again.

    2. Re:Solutions by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      Yea, we have bandwidth caps at my uni too...but there's no shortage of ways around them. Because if I want to download one Linux ISO, I'm already over my weekly cap - and as the VP of the Linux Users Group, there have been times when I needed 3 or 4 DVD images within a span of a couple hours. But as I said, there's no shortage of ways around the caps. You can download from wireless, you can get on someone's connection in town (frats, apartments, businesses), you can connect through the campus proxy server, you can ssh into one of the unix lab machines and download from there, and hell I think you could probably even use one of the many VPN servers that they have to login from home or from the wifi (there's the main campus one and then some departments have their own), though I've never tried that.

  16. Why students piracy: by Tei · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Students don't have much money (much less than people with jobs), but still have the same needs, created by the industry and our dynamic culture. The only way for these people to fullfill these needs is to piracy. I don't condone piracy.. but I have to say that the other option is frustration.

    I don't theres any solution. But theres also no damage either: these people will not buy anyway. Once these people finish his studios and get a job, these same people will start buying things again, wen buying is easier.

    Let students warez his music, there are things more important for us.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

    1. Re:Why students piracy: by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Tell the music industry to stop advertising to poor people! Here's an idea: let the music be free until students get their first job in their field after school. They it's time to pay the piper.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:Why students piracy: by plover · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Students don't have much money (much less than people with jobs), but still have the same needs, created by the industry and our dynamic culture. The only way for these people to fullfill these needs is to piracy. I don't condone piracy.. but I have to say that the other option is frustration.

      I don't theres any solution. But theres also no damage either: these people will not buy anyway. Once these people finish his studios and get a job, these same people will start buying things again, wen buying is easier.

      Let students warez his music, there are things more important for us.

      You used the wrong word above when you said "needs". Music and movies are not needs. They are "wants". They are wants that are skillfully created by advertisers, marketers, producers, and talented artists and engineers, and they are presented as needs and sold as needs, but they are not. Any confusion you have between needs and wants is a lesson you really should learn now in order to survive in the modern world without going head-first into debt. People who don't learn this lesson soon think they need a sports car, and they need a big TV, and they need a mansion. Then they find they need shovels full of money to pay their debts. Then they go bankrupt, and discover that nobody will even put gas in their car without cash up front.

      So there's a perfectly workable solution that's existed since the dawn of trade: if you can't afford to pay for a thing, go without it. You do not need music to survive. You will not perish or get kicked out of school for not having a copy of Avatar. You will not starve, you will not freeze to death, you will not go homeless because you don't have a copy of the latest movie on your iPhone. If you still think music is a need, go petition your government representative to have them hand out "welfare music" to homeless people so they don't die of inadequate culture. See how far that proposal goes.

      --
      John
    3. Re:Why students piracy: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a perfectly workable solution that's existed since the dawn of trade: if you can't afford to pay for a thing, go without it.

      Piracy is also a perfectly workable solution. If it weren't, the industries complaining about it WOULDN'T EXIST. But they're rich and they grow richer every day. As they so proudly announce every year, posting record profits.

      Their lamentations are highly exaggerated. They're not needs. They are wants. Your views have been carefully manipulated by advertisers, marketers, producers and engineers and now you think it's the truth. Critical thinking is a lesson you should learm now in order not to be fooled in the modern world, to live without going head-first into delusion.

      The industry can go without a total solution to piracy. They don't need 100% of sales to survive. They won't perish for not selling a copy of Avatar. They won't starve, they won't freeze, they won't go homeless because they couldn't buy a sixth car. If you still think they need more money, go petition your government to have them hand out welfare money.

      Ah yes, they already did that for you. Well, never mind.

    4. Re:Why students piracy: by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      That the arts are necessary to a life worth living is a principle that goes all the way back to the Greeks (and probably beyond). Sure, someone downloading a Lady Gaga track is probably fulfilling a mere want, but fine music, film and books are all things that are needs and can be had from internet sources.

    5. Re:Why students piracy: by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Your argument would work better if students were maxing out their credit cards to buy music and movies. But since these things are free they seem to have their priorities in order since they are paying nothing for entertainment and conserving their money for true "needs" like alcohol.

    6. Re:Why students piracy: by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      Well, Mr. Karma: Pedantic, there's a class of needs you've probably not heard of then: "Social needs." If you go without movies, music, TV, whatever, you're segregating yourself out from a significant part of social culture. Without that common touchstone, you no longer have a point of commonality with other people in your culture, thus you are now less able to relate to and interact with other people. You may not be kicked out of school for not seeing Avatar, but you might be ostracised. And since you need other people more than ever in today's world, social touchpoints are vital. The more you've seen/heard, the more people you can intelligibly interact with. Your idea of "welfare music" would do nothing to help that, though, since that'd just create social stratification as people would just call it "poor people's music." Completely unfettered access to cultural artefacts would do it. Social support of musicians and content creators so they can make a living, but not a killing, at their art, and then giving the content for free would work well, though.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    7. Re:Why students piracy: by sixsixtysix · · Score: 1

      what about my "need" for things to get into the public domain in a sane and efficient manner?
      what about the copyright cartels "want" for seemingly endless control?
      also, one could argue that when dealing with costs accrued for a work, they "need" to break even, but anything after that is a "want".

      --
      ...
    8. Re:Why students piracy: by zwei2stein · · Score: 1

      Is this yet another american thing about "popular kids" and "high school politics"?

      Do you really believe that not seeing X will make you social outcast? Talking about movies-series-music is just crutch to get either break ice or crutch to get along with people who you do not have anything common with. Because frankly, I only ever recall talking movies/music with people in those situations. It is about the weakest of weak bonds.

      What does make you stay in touch with people are common insterests, spending time together and caring at least a bit person and common friends.

      I'd suggest you stop worrying whether or not you are 'in' and get your ass to some party or start normal conversation.

      ---

      Alternative view point:

      * Dressing in 'poor peoples' clothing will get you ostracised. Is it okay to steal better clothes?
      * Going to 'poor peoples' pubs will sever you from richer classmates and social touchpoint. It is okay to go to better pub and then run away without paying check?
      * Not having iPod/iPhone will get you segreageted from peers. Is it okay to steal one?
      * Can't afford ticket to Avatar and you will be left out when taling about it? Is it okay to sneak in to cinema?

      Like it or not, if you lack money, you are going to loose out. Not having expensive toys or latest fashion is not exactly great, but it is how life goes.

      You should aim to have friends that are not superfluous enough to care about whether or not you have stuff. How come NA people play those dumb popularity games?

      --
      -- Technology for the sake of technology is as pathetic as eschewing technology because it's technology.
    9. Re:Why students piracy: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Students should run meth labs and money counterfeiting operations in their dorms then. After all, they're POOR. And let's face it, when faced with a choice between breaking legal and moral standards, or going without a piece of entertainment, crime is always the best thing to turn to.

    10. Re:Why students piracy: by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Note: I am not the grand father poster.

      Do you really believe that not seeing X will make you social outcast?

      One is unable to socialize when the subject matter is about X.

      What does make you stay in touch with people are common insterests, spending time together and caring at least a bit person and common friends.

      Speak for yourself. People end up being stuck with certain individuals just because they have nobody else, period.

      * Dressing in 'poor peoples' clothing will get you ostracised. Is it okay to steal better clothes?

      Provided you don't get caught, otherwise that will get you ostracized.

      * Going to 'poor peoples' pubs will sever you from richer classmates and social touchpoint. It is okay to go to better pub and then run away without paying check?

      Also provided you don't get caught, because that too will get you ostracized.

      * Not having iPod/iPhone will get you segreageted from peers. Is it okay to steal one?

      Yep, as long as you don't get caught, because if you do, you'll get ostracized.

      * Can't afford ticket to Avatar and you will be left out when taling about it? Is it okay to sneak in to cinema?

      Yet again, yes, as long as you don't get caught.

      You should aim to have friends that are not superfluous enough to care about whether or not you have stuff.

      You take what you can get. As you mentioned earlier, "it is how life goes".

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    11. Re:Why students piracy: by plover · · Score: 1

      Seriously? You think stealing clothes, cell phones, food and drink, whatever you want is all OK as long you don't get caught?

      Wow. We really don't need you.

      --
      John
    12. Re:Why students piracy: by cynyr · · Score: 1

      perhaps they should focus on marketing experiences and not just physical copies of things. Let the CD be advertising for the tour, or that "release" of a movie be a advert for the tee-shirt or the posh theater(you know the one with real tables/chairs and dinner at it. Not dinner at the snack counter, but table side service, in a faraday cage so that cell phones do not work. Or well just about anything other than the bitstream that is the movie. The problem with theaters is that for around $2000 i can get a entry level home theater in a box. Now with that I get no teens in the front row texting and giggling, I get to pause the movie to get a snack, go to the bathroom, get my kids something(they are 2 and 3), a nice comfy non sticky couch to snuggle with my wife on.

      Now full price tickets to a 2d film are what? $8 per person? so that $16 for me and my wife not counting snacks or babysitting for the kids. 2000/16 = 125, so if it was just the two of us seeing movies we'd need to see 125 films before upgrading to break even. now add in $20 for food, and $20-40 for the babysitting... 2000/56 = ~36 hmm very quickly that number is going down fast. Thats just the money side of things, after all of the work of the babysitter, if some teen in the front decides that leaving their phone on "annoying music ring tone at the volume of GODs voice" is correct it really does cut into the experience. So does the sticky uncomfortable chairs.

      So i pirate very little these days, and most of what I do is just not available locally or is very sub par coverage. F1, WRC, a few UK shows.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    13. Re:Why students piracy: by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Wow. We really don't need you.

      See? You proved my point. Don't get caught, you get ostracized.

      Personally, I wouldn't do it, but I do love playing devil's advocate.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  17. It's what we did too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and I'm WAY too old for this, there was no internet to speak of when I was in college. We pirated music the old fashioned way, which analog cassette tapes. One guy would buy a new album (an "album" was like what we now call a compact disk, but it was about 1 foot in diameter and made of black plastic) and bring it back to the dorm, and pretty soon everyone who wanted it would have a second or third generation cassette dub (and yes, these were perfectly listenable). That was actually better than file sharing because it meant you spent a lot of time actually listening to music with your friends while making these dubs, instead of being an antisocial geek copying files over a computer.

    Now get off my lawn.

    1. Re:It's what we did too by mick232 · · Score: 1

      You're indeed way too old. An "album" nowadays is a set of MP3s, not a compact disk.

    2. Re:It's what we did too by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Why would you copy to a 'analog cassette tape'? Why not to one of those 'albums'?

      Surely have two separate physical mediums was confusing. You'd need two players.

      Oh, was it because those foot-wide pieces of plastic were hard to manage? I bet they didn't fit in your CD rack.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  18. Perk of US Colleges by Kjella · · Score: 1

    In more technologically advanced countries the latest generation of broadband is plenty good at home. Even my parents and my uncle are moving to fiber connections now with 10/10 Mbit as the lowest, which is plenty and on upload even faster than my cable line. The whole "limited bandwidth" is going to be some oddity of the past in a few decades because even a fairly notorious HD hog such as myself doesn't download 100 GB/day which is what a saturated 10 Mbit line will upload. For comparison, a complete binary usenet feed is "only" about 500 Mbit/s and includes everything but the kitchen sink. Maybe live BluRay streaming is a little ways off still but then you're trying very hard to find the most marginal case possible.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  19. DC++ FTW by twitterfire · · Score: 1, Informative

    Use DC++ (StrongDC, ApexDC). It's so much better than torrents. Tons and tons of everything you can imagine or not. Just find a decent hublist and you're good to go.

  20. Worthless garbage by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    Honestly, how much of this is actually worth pirating, anyway?

    A defining moment of my life came in 1998, when I finally landed a coveted ISP job. (Go ahead, laugh, it was a big deal back then.) At last, I had local 100Mb access to a Usenet server with a full alt.binaries feed. A co-worker had spools upon spools of burned CDs of MP3s. I spent one ten-hour shift examining these CDs one by one. There was almost nothing that I actually cared to listen to. A notable exception was the soundtrack to Tron (the 1982 original - not that I should need to say that, but seeing the empty desert of creativity that is 2010, I feel the need to) as well as less than 100Mb of other MP3s. The local access to the Usenet server proved equally as useless, except for the firehose of porn. What's the point of pirating the NBC Sunday night line-up, when it's all crap anyway? There are just people out there to whom accumulating shows is an end in itself. It's a pathological need, like those old ladies who collect 150 cats in one house and then let them all starve.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Worthless garbage by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      At least with filesharing technologies, the guy who is merely hoarding for the mere sake of it is still providing those files to others out there who have a real interest in it. On a P2P network I'm on, some people have accumulated music they never intend on listening to, but they keep it in their shares to help out those who are into it.

  21. I'm old, but by speedlaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Back in the day, we'd hook up five or so cassette tape player in a row when someone got a fresh album, and make five tapes. We had lots of posters in the Student Union (we could even get beer there, that's how old I am) which said "home taping kills music". When CD's came out for twice the price of the vinyl, we saw how true that was. NOT. I've advised my kids to not upload, and share only with those they know in the real world. So far, I now have more music than I could listen to in a a normal lifespan, with no p2p or dodgy websites. Students hiding data from the RIAA (actually their terrified school ISP)-imagine that ! I have no fear for the new generation.

    1. Re:I'm old, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leech.

  22. Shortsighted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You folks have no idea of the economic destruction you create by stealing music and movies. You have no idea of the pain you bring to individuals, especially those really hurt by this recession. I hope you enjoy. Someone else has paid for it.

    1. Re:Shortsighted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >stealing
      >destruction
      >pain

      STFU and quit being so dramatic, emo fag. They're only 1s and 0s on a computer. They have been copied and traded for as long as computers have existed (and analog media before that). It's certainly not going to stop anytime soon because of your bitching and whining about it. Just learn to live with it or do something else for a living.

  23. aren't these future customers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The part of these stories that always gets me is, aren't the students future customers? These are people that like digital content, and when released to the real world without file sharing networks and steady incomes then to buy the most, Most people understand the that fact that without payment these people cannot produce the media that we consume, I am just thinking that the companies can come up with some marketing strategies that will make file sharing obsolete and protect a future revenue stream while the students still have access to great content.

    1. Re:aren't these future customers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are people that like digital content, and when released to the real world without file sharing networks and steady incomes then to buy the most

      And what "real world" do you live in? I now have more access to file sharing networks than I ever did in college. An unrestricted unthrottled ISP with access to bittorrent is a very nice thing to have, and dorm residents don't typically have it.

  24. Everyone is in on it in college by adosch · · Score: 1

    When I was in college back in 2000, a lot of my friends ended up getting work supplement jobs with 'Computing Services' on campus, doing the mundane desktop/printer/PC phone support to free up the campus sysadmin's time. Little did our close-nit group of friends find out the sysadmin's themselves had a huge storage server restricted by access-control lists that was loaded with mp3s, movies, dvdrips, ect. It was sort of a speak-easy to get access to it, but again, as the title states, when 'everyone' is in on piracy, from the campus nerd, to the academic probation athlete and all the way up to the Senior Sysadmin ranks, good luck with that policy. I know what our university policy was on piracy, but it was only on paper to make the board of regents happy; it's something that honestly could not be enforced.

  25. Shock! by Spad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Students trying to get stuff for free? Never!

    I had a friend at uni who used to buy packaged foodstuffs and then send them back to the "If you're not completely satisfied" address with a fictional complaint. 9 times out of 10 he'd get a crate of said product by way of compensation; he survived for 3 years, barely paying for anything he ate or drank in this manner and you're amazed that people are swapping music without paying for it?

    If any single group of people can find a way to get things without paying for them, it's student. Intelligent, poor, lots of free time = win.

    1. Re:Shock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when i was a student I'd fill out forms for free crap... lots of links to forms at slickdeals.net

      The most amazing thing i got for free was a sample set of acupuncture needles.

  26. Wrong about public univeristies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for a public university, and the state covers less than half our costs. I don't know if that's true across the country, but I expect it is. 20 years ago it was a different story.

  27. p2p internal cache server by h00manist · · Score: 1

    I wonder if they have a good way to setup an internal p2p cache server. Hmm it might be actually easy, if unofficial word is let out to run a particular program, just setup an internal server for it, and have it host the most popular files. Updating those files automatically would be the only challenge.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  28. at certain points in history by way2trivial · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the entire legal system may bow down to one woman sitting on a bus.

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:at certain points in history by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      My kingdom for mod points. That response is epic.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    2. Re:at certain points in history by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Sure, and indeed one of my favourite quotations of all time is Margaret Mead's:

      "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

      Unfortunately, Mead didn't specify a time frame, and while I'm pretty sure she was right in the long run, I don't think a few students ripping songs are quite in the same league as Rosa Parks.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:at certain points in history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you seriously implying that the digital theft of media is akin to the civil rights movement on any level?

      wow slashdot, wow.

    4. Re:at certain points in history by SadielCuentas · · Score: 1

      the entire legal system may bow down to one woman sitting on a bus.

      Amber Lamps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN2Q6yiQ2VI&feature=related

    5. Re:at certain points in history by Grey+Haired+Luser · · Score: 1

      First of all, it's copyright infringement, not stealing.

      And, yes --- we see a clear parallel between the
      civil rights movement and the systematic criminalization of
      millions of citizens for an act we regard as ethical.

  29. Why do MPAA RIAA care about students? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does the MPAA & RIAA and all the other horrible organisations with a similar agenda hate campus file sharing so much? Its not like the students would ever have the money to pay for such movies/rubbish anyway so whats the actual loss here? As its been pointed out, every time an app used to download stuff gets targeted a much newer and better one comes out. What are these organisations bribing campus officials with to get any changes (if any)? Sounds like a big waste of time all round.

  30. oblig by overcaffein8d · · Score: 1

    i'd rather have trololotalk

    --
    Those of us who think they know everything annoy those of us who do.
  31. DC hub worked at my local univ until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... a single italian exchange student came along and couldn't setup his or her direct connect, got frustrated and asked our university's it-support.

    IT-staff had known for years about the hub, but couldn't do anything as (a) they themselves were using it (b) local law would forbid tracing this kind of activity via network level capturing. However thanks to this one italian expert, police came in on the apartments of admins, confiscated wrong computers and didn't charge them with anything. Our school however did punish these guys.

    Thats another thing to figure out; how can the school punish when the police cannot find any evidence to make a case?

  32. This old song and dance again? by Sidius01 · · Score: 1

    Honestly in my experience if something is actually worth the money that developers are charging for a product, then most people have no problem shelling out that kind of cash. I know plenty of other students who download music, movies, etc quite a bit, and if it's an exceptionally good piece then they usually go out and get a hard copy of it. This why I like to think that all the file sharing being done helps get brand names and such out there. It's kind of like the product samples you get at supermarkets, except on a global scale. Not to mention, no matter how much noise is made over all this, there are still gonna be people finding ways around all legal bs.

  33. Now this is interesting! by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    Wow, a filesharing protocol I hadn't stumbled across! Thanks Slashdot!

    So, I've been trying to figure out how best to share some files with friends who are spread all over the place. Some of them are fairly large - think customized Linux distro of several gigs for instance. We've tried several programs that do all sorts of indexing and crap but in each case they well.. sucked. But this sounds fairly promising! What I am trying to figure out how to do is setup a hub for myself and for my limited number of friends. I want only those people to access it and I want them to be able to see each other's files too. I see the DC++ client has support for PKI certs and whatnot which looks promising. the client software seems fairly mature and there's several packages out there. But what about HUB software? I looked at YNHUB, last updated in 2K8, and Yabba who's date I cannot yet figure out. What are these campuses using for their HUB software? I'd prefer Windows as the host but if I must use Linux I can. I'd like to find something that won't advertise itself anywhere and would require me passing out certs etc. to use. Client software looks pretty easily available but HUB software is much less talked about - and I'd rather not have to delve Python scripts to use it either. What's available that works well? Something light would be nice as this is a very limited number of users. Honestly I'd consider using a private Torrent tracker too if I could find something equally light and secure. Shipping HDDs all over the place has been done but I'd really rather be able to do this on a more on-demand basis and this software looks promising. I just don't want to have to become a full on expert to set it up and maintain it securely...

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    1. Re:Now this is interesting! by Agent+ME · · Score: 1

      >Wow, a filesharing protocol I hadn't stumbled across! Thanks Slashdot!

      My same first reaction too!

      Though what would the difference be between a DC hub and an (s)ftp server? From only reading about it, the main thing seems to be that hubs can redirect to each other, which doesn't seem too much more useful than a text file on an (s)ftp server listing other servers to check out too.

    2. Re:Now this is interesting! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Here is a list of choices for hub software:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Connect_%28file_sharing%29#Hub_software

      Here's a real-world example of a very effective use of DC++: There is a certain event where several thousand computers are hooked into a 100mbit LAN and filesharing is done on a massive scale. DC++ is the protocol of choice because it allows everyone to hash their own files in advance, so that they will be searchable. The central hub is heavily taxed and at some point stops allowing new users to log into the hub, due to the insane amounts of traffic, but is for the most part pretty reliable. Once you are logged in, the hub does its job perfectly and you can chat, browse file lists, search for files, and even start a transfer and then search the rest of the users for that exact file so you can pull it in from multiple sources. Total share size is in the hundreds of TB. The software used on the hub is Verlihub on linux.

    3. Re:Now this is interesting! by BLKMGK · · Score: 2, Informative

      Okay so I've done some research...

      First the client does most of the work not the hubs. I'm using and playing with uHub, runs on Linux. Simple compile but config is ALL via text files - ick. Gee it's Linux so no big surprise - have their web site handy for config help. DC++ is the client I'm using but I will likely look for another since it cannot handle UNC shares as targets. It chunks up transfers like a torrent does so if things drop you can restart and pull from multiple sources if needed.

      Anyway, the client does the heavy lifting in this scenario with the hub just sort of pointing users at one another. Some of the software out there to run hubs looked interesting but also fairly old and this one seems to work pretty well. I have yet to get uHub working with SSL, it has to be compiled with a switch to enable the support, yup Linux!

      Bottom line, pick a good client and this software seems pretty light to run if you have a Linux box around - mine is an ATOM HTPC and the load is negligible. Not sure this is the solution to my particular issue but it does seem to work fairly well...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    4. Re:Now this is interesting! by Agent+ME · · Score: 1

      So clients have something like a sharing folder, and connect to a hub to see the other clients' sharing folders? Guess it's closer to a limited Gnutella network than a simple ftp file server.

    5. Re:Now this is interesting! by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Yes exactly how it works. Do be advised that many clients use DHT too though so if you're just trying to share files with a limited few others may get hits in their searches and be able to access your files if you do not turn it off! Right now I'm using StrongDC++ and while it cannot handle UNC shares directly I can map a network drive to folders and it will access those unlike other programs I tried.

      Anyway, it's working fine for sharing among a specific group of folks I know and when setup correctly keeps it private and secure. Pretty nice for moving files over a long distance among friends on less than perfect connections and you can throttle it too.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  34. Not always... by Bensam123 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    See, I'm on the other side of the bridge with this one. I came from one of the new campuses that provide notebooks to all their students. They do hand off MPAA and RIAA letters to students and I, as well as other friends of mine, have gotten at least one. It goes from 'we shut off your connection' to 'we will put you on academic probation' to 'we will actually kick you out' based on media influences outside of the school. They actually have a scanner on campus that scans open SMB directories for infringing material and shut off your connection and they have a eMule server that sends out random bad data... right on campus.

    Coming from a more tech oriented campus they decided to be on the bleeding edge of copyright protection as well. Even though I was well aware of file sharing on campus, we never had anything on the scale of DC servers everyone knew about... at least outside of little circles that no one knows about except for a handful of people. Maybe everyone on a floor in a dorm, but it never got bigger then that. Our local LAN club also had copious amounts of sharing going on during actual events, but that usually ended when the event ended.

    Our network admins are either retarded, confident they're doing the right thing, or more then likely they're receiving fringe benefits through large copyright holders for making sure the campus is 'free' of bad stuff.

    1. Re:Not always... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also came from a campus where they attempted to stop file sharing. However instead of a tech oriented college, it was a backwater tech-unfriendly place with very incompetent IT staff. This was before the days of Big Media lawsuits, and my college wouldn't have been a primary target anyway. The network was simply very flaky and poorly operated, and the students' PCs were frequently overrun with the worm du jour (blaster, sasser, mydoom, etc)..

      The solution was to start throttling WAN access from the dorms to dialup speed and firewalling most ports. I guess if you really needed the internet at usable speeds you just had to go to the library. If it's so slow that you never want to use it, then you won't be bringing in any infections, will you??

      They started to require everyone to install "Cisco clean access" to connect, so that they could manage your AV software. If you ran Linux you couldn't install the software but they mercifully allowed you to connect -- if you entered your student id and password to re-authenticate every couple of hours. Oh and you couldn't have more than one device connected to your dorm room port. If they detected two different MAC addresses trying to connect (i.e. XBox and PC) then they would shut off access.

      I did attend for a while in the "good old days" when there were still open SMB shares. I actually met one of my best friends in college by browsing peoples' shared files on the network. This guy put a text file in there with some info about him along with his AIM screen name. Probably never would have met otherwise. Another friend tried to run a Direct Connect hub on the campus network (which would have been EPIC), but he was shut down after a couple of days due to the "unusual" amount of traffic coming from his room..

      After the network idiots started to rule the dorms with an iron fist, I couldn't wait to fucking get out of there. Though I didn't move off-campus right away, I did manage to get road runner in the dorms in a semi-legitimate way. Time warner would not let you subscribe to any services in the dorms, period. However a friend of mine figured out that if he brought a cable modem from a legitimate subscribers' house to the dorm room, then it would connect over the dorm cable and work just fine. Time warner only verified MAC addresses of the modems to identify subscribers and had no idea about the physical location. I roomed with this guy for a couple years and had tolerable internet access, but I felt sorry for all the poor bastards that were stuck with the college network. It was just pitiful. The file sharing mainly occurred at the LAN parties every month or so.

  35. You'd die without your probiotics by Rix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Much like culture would without piracy? ;)

  36. The RIAA/MPAA is once again myopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure this has been thought of before, but it seems like the copyright holders are missing an opportunity.

    College students are in the unique situation that various fees can be rolled into tuition. Why not create a media portal for college students, working with college administrations, and charge each student, say, $15 a month for that access to that portal? Why would they pay? You'd have to offer features that the DC or SMB shares don't......iPod/iPhone integration. Perhaps even an app. Facebook integration. Access to larger numbers of titles/songs/performers. They could also offer the option to EXTEND the access post graduation. Will students still illegally share files? Yes. But if the RIAA/MPAA get their cut off of the top, it limits their 'loss'.

    Furthermore, college students are identifiable. They can be surveyed. "What did and didn't you like about our portal?". "What new features would you like to see?". "Would you be interested in continuing our service post-grad?" "Why or why not?". Their loss would be providing valuable market data.

    One would think that given Napster debuted over a decade ago, the writing on the wall would have been heeded, but it seems that they are focused more on loss prevention than R&D.

  37. Agreed, & I remember that of which you speak o by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Taping casettes while I was young was a regular thing between folks that knew one another, so I'm "date'ing myself" here too, as you noted. If anything, it's done merely to function as a backup, which iirc? Is COMPLETELY OK BY THE LAW, but... don't quote me on that much, I just seem to recall that was the "out" one could use to escape any troubles associated, & I'd wager that making copies of your bought & paid for media is STILL OK, on a hunch. This was back in the day when metal or Chrome Oxide tapes "ruled", lol! Additionally/lastly - & that didn't "kill the arts" anymore than folks taping VCR tapes did. So much for "you're killing music" or film, OR whatever, because that's a crock of crap. This entire b.s about "stealing music" or "stealing movies" is merely a slogan & sentiment being spread by those that rape artists like Trent Reznor when they're "Green to the Industry", while they live off of trust funds & their investments that use others to do 90% of the work involved, while they toss those actually involved in the production of said arts mere CRUMBS from that FAT TABLE, & while they live the "jet set life" because of their monies they doubtless inherited & continue to invest it, making even more (not always the case on the latter note). I also certainly don't want to hear "but those that put up the monies take the risks" which is MORE b.s., because they mostly do so from loans, of which their cash or properties is yes, collateral, but how many of these filthy rich people go & claim "bankruptcy" when they make a mistake on such investments? TONS of them do. So, as far as their "we take risks investing", well... you take about as much risk as I do, when I go to buy a candy bar, because you have millions to play with to do so, & attorneys + accountants to bail you out when you do f'up on said investments. I've seen it before, & nobody can tell ME differently.

  38. Extension of copyright is stealing by symbolset · · Score: 1

    When copyright is extended a copy of every work extended is stolen from each of us because it would otherwise be rightfully ours and is not. That's stealing.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  39. Product placement by Tempsi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Pirates" are in fact paying for some content by exposing themselves to product placement in movies and TV-shows. Anheuser-Busch doesn't care whether the viewer sees their product "legally" or "illegally", as long as they see it.

    In fact, I have personally even downloaded (illegally!) some superbowl commercials intentionally for my viewing pleasure! I'm pretty sure the copyright holders don't really mind though. Or if they do, they are mentally insane.

  40. Re:Product placement continued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By the way, I was so impressed by some of the Bud Light commercials, that I have been trying really hard to find that product here in Finland. :) Yet to be successful though.

  41. Those aren't non-copyrighted files. by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    > file sharing has been restricted to non-copyrighted files

    There's no such thing as a non-copyrighted file in countries that subscribe to the Berne copyright convention (i.e. most of the world), except perhaps those few files where the author has released them into the public domain (assuming they live in a country where that's even possible...). The things you've been sharing are therefore almost certainly copyrighted (as Linux is), the difference is that they're not infringing because you have permission.

    The reason I correct you is that the **AA types try that, even in court, claiming that people just have to filter out the "copyrighted" files as if there are master records somewhere indicating who has permission to publish what, when no such things exist and there's no algorithm that can tell you who has permission to publish what.

  42. I assume they think it's okay when they do it. by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    I can't speak for how things are run in college nowadays, but if I have any insight into human nature, I would have to say that either they believe it's right, or their answer is "it's okay when I do it." People have a hard time seeing any behavior they engage in as bad. I'm not saying they never think that, just that it works that way most of the time. I've actually seen someone who thought that file sharing was Communism... but had no problem copying every tape or DVD he had ever rented.

    One of the more relevant biases is called "moral credentialing" (look it up on Wikipedia).

    For the record, I see a lot more wrong with copyright law than with copying. And anyone with any technical insight should have realized a long time ago that our current copyright laws are unenforceable. I see the **AA types investing all kinds of money into lobbyists, technology and laws to change this, but short of a police state, that's not working so well in China, despite the government pouring all kinds of resources into controlling what the people do (though they don't care much about piracy, only about anti-government sentiments, the fact that they're trying to keep certain information scarce is the same).

    1. Re:I assume they think it's okay when they do it. by plover · · Score: 1

      For the record, I see a lot more wrong with copyright law than with copying. And anyone with any technical insight should have realized a long time ago that our current copyright laws are unenforceable. I see the **AA types investing all kinds of money into lobbyists, technology and laws to change this, but short of a police state, that's not working so well in China, despite the government pouring all kinds of resources into controlling what the people do (though they don't care much about piracy, only about anti-government sentiments, the fact that they're trying to keep certain information scarce is the same).

      I think the copyright laws are enforceable, but as a result we come up with some really stupid judgments (the whole Jammie Thomas thing and the $$$$/song price tag they stuck on it.) DRM is just trying to prevent the act, not as a means of "enforcing copyright." Of course it doesn't help that both sides blur the line between the ability to copy and the right to copy, however it best suits their argument.

      And the Chinese situation proves only that a police state is effective at maintaining a totalitarian regime, not in preventing crime.

      --
      John
  43. There is always someone smarter than oneself by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      A theory about how people are contrary?

      Someone will deny it ;-)

      Those who would control society are blind when it comes to understanding the people who make up society. Historically that has always been their downfall - not after much damage has been done, unfortunately.

      The really fucked up part about it is that it can't be changed by anything other than the broad dissemination of knowledge, which is exactly what many of the people in power do not want. Thence hinders the advancement of humanity. ( Just to preemptively shoot down certain fundamentalist assholes: It's not a conspiracy, it's the broad spectrum of ignorance breeding ignorance, which is an entirely different problem)

     

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  44. ...the tricks of stealing music... by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    Sharing is not stealing. Taking is stealing. Nothing is being taken here...

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:...the tricks of stealing music... by dugeen · · Score: 1

      Yes, possibly the original post is part of a viral industry 'education' campaign.

  45. Same Story here in Canada by stevo3232 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I go to a university in Canada with about 25000 students. The exact same thing happens here, people who run resnet know DC++ exists and they look the other way. They actually moderately appreciate it because it means that fewer people are grabbing files from outside the network which a) means the RIAA is going to send them fewer legal threats and b) the university uses less bandwidth, since everything within resnet costs them nothing.

    Students will ALWAYS find ways to download files.

    --
    s.clementmonkey@sympatico.ca, remove the 'monkey'.
  46. Outraged for many reasons:big 1 collateral damage by bootup · · Score: 1

    This is so completely outrageous because if you read the law they basically force the schools into taking technological steps that have significant/and or insurmountable costs and/or incalculable collateral damage. The schools must impliment one of the folling technological solutions to inhibit piracy and it MUST work or they have to try another (with reviews). There are four categories of "technology-based deterrents" they can choose from: 1. Bandwidth shaping 2. Traffic monitoring to identify the largest bandwidth users 3. A vigorous program of accepting and responding to Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) notices 4. A variety of commercial products designed to reduce or block illegal file sharing Bandwidth shaping? This means that I'm screwed if I want to download an Ubuntu ISO. Traffic monitoring? I'm screwed if I want to download lots of GNU/Linux ISOs- not to mention my privacy. Respond to DMCA notices wouldn't be acceptable because of the insurmountable costs to forward notices to students unless you correctly interpret the law-at least my interpretation of it. That being if the school hosts the content on there servers they must act. If a student hosts it on their private servers the DMCA doesn't apply and they must bring a lawsuit. The university should still be protected under the DMCA since they still made a good faith effort to comply with correctly filed DMCA complaints. Lastly we all know that commercial products that are designed to reduce or block 'illegal file sharing' have both collateral damage on fair use rights and content that isn't held by the copyright owner in question claiming copyright whose copyright is being refused- not to mention degrading performance of the network. Interfering with network traffic should be illegal. It doesn't matter who does it. Neither ISP nor government should should interfere with a users traffic. We should all have unfiltered access to the internet without any firewalls and if the technology is shared bandwidth evenly distributed amongst users to whatever alotment they've purchased or otherwise obtained until it is utilized at which point they can be charged for more or be throttled. Of course bandwidth prices should never be costly- and the more you purchase in a given month the less it should cost as you are contributing more to the maintenance of the system- and therefore entitled to lower prices as is the case with ANY OTHER PRODUCT- when purchased in quantity (just about).

  47. I'm playing the world's saddest song... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...on the world's smallest violin.

    ^_^

  48. Different burden of proof by justinlee37 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Thats another thing to figure out; how can the school punish when the police cannot find any evidence to make a case?

    The school is not required to use the same burden of proof that the police are required to use in order to convict in a criminal case. Criminal cases usually require evidence proving the crime "beyond a reasonable doubt." Civil cases usually require evidence to prove the wrong-doing beyond a "preponderance of the evidence," meaning there must be a 51% or greater chance that the wrong-doing occurred. This is why O.J. Simpson was convicted in civil court of killing his wife, but not in criminal court.

    At my school, the school punishes infractions of the student code if the Dean feels that a "preponderance of the evidence" supports to disciplinary action. Your school probably has a similar standard, and although it could be more or less than a preponderance, it is most assuredly a lower standard than that required to convict someone of a crime in a court of law.

    IANAL, but I did do competition Mock Trial in high school, and this stuff is basically common knowledge.

  49. Not competition? by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

    If I pirated media, I think that when/if piracy becomes impossible or excessively difficult I'd just give up media instead of buying it. I was thinking about it the other day, but the problem is that there really isn't competition for torrenting from the commercial sector. Pirated copies just work, and "play for sure", whether it's music, games, or video.

    If I buy a DVD, I have to deal with the latest DRM bullshit to play it. Whether it's buying a new computer, a new TV, a new DVD player, etc, I can't be sure until I get home if it will work. And thanks to the no returns on opened media policy at most stores (which I imagine you could fight if you cared enough but for a $10 movie who does?), I would be out of luck. If I buy it online, I have to deal with the licensing server shutting down, not running on my computer, not letting me download to a portable device, etc. To make matters worse, packaging varies from vague to outright misleading about DRM measures in use.

    Similar problems for video games. I regularly go back and play video games from even before I was born, let alone two years ago. Will I still be able to play (single and multiplayer) after it is no longer profitable to run the gaming service? Sure Starcraft is still up on BNet but if it ever went down, you could still play offline multiplayer (and most of my tastes are more niche than Starcraft). Thankfully, many of the games I like come from studios that are DRM-free and have affordable, online downloads, but not everyone can be this lucky. Suppose I liked MSM crap like Bioshock or Spore instead of Penumbra or Sins of a Solar Empire?

    Music is the least of my worries. Assuming I know I like it in advance, I don't find the idea of paying $1 per song that outrageous, and since I can just buy it DRM free as an mp3 from amazon.com or iTunes (though then I need a VM and some klugy software with a shitty UI) at decent bitrate. Most of my friends have huge music collections of many GB but how much can you really listen to? Me, I'll take Pandora and 2-3 GB of stuff I really like. Oh wait, I forgot, they're killing Pandora.

    This is a getting a bit rambly, but my point here is this: we've all heard the nerd rage about how a pirated copy does not equate to a lost sale, but it seems like there is more or less a consensus that it's off by a constant factor: IE, each pirated copy is 1/20 of a lost sale. Of course due to the way the market works and how hard it is to monitor piracy, the precise ratio is hard to find. Maybe it's not a lost sale at all. Maybe anti-piracy, not home taping, is "killing" the more-profitable than ever media industry.

    Because right now, if money and objections to the industry weren't an issue to me, I'd pirate it: It'd run faster, easier, more virus-free, and forever.

    --
    93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
  50. Interesting article, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting article, but... the first sentence about "passing down tricks of stealing music" seemed to have nothing to do with the rest of the article. This is in fact one reason no student will take the RIAA or MPAA seriously, the transparent and intentional attemps on their part to confuse the two.