Oh, there are quite a few areas in which that is being done now. One of our local power companies does it as well.
What I'm saying is that it should be a national push to do so.
Of course, then, if the federal gov got involved, it'd turn into another wasteful porkfest. Sigh.
So grassroots and keep the fucking feds out of it - because they'd legislate it, mandate mins, involve the big corps, etc, and we both know what'd happen then.
I suspect that anything large enough to expose a significant area of the impact to raw vacuum is going to be literally almost earth-shattering;-)
Smaller impacts, most of the energy just may go up and out and reduce the, er, impact of the impact somewhat. I don't think anyone really knows what sort of atmospheric effects that large an overpressure wave would have. Would the potential vacuum at the center be replaced by vaporized gases, rock, seawater? A significant portion of the impact energy rebounding from the mantle in the form of vaporized rock is going to go straight up, or nearly so, as well - the earth is still essentially an immovable object even at the scales of 100km diameter impacts.
I don't think we have to worry about Sirius A - likely tens of millions of years yet, and even if there are still intelligent beings in the solar system, they certainly won't resemble humans. But of course the wavefront could already be on it's way here - seems like every few months we find out something new about the behavior of large stars.
But I think you're wrong about shielding. Dig deep enough into a rock like the moon (or perhaps even Ceres or Pallas, or Vesta) and one should be safe enough. But I do agree that what we don't know can kill us. That's why we need to get the hell off this rock and as far as we can and quit fighting over silly things like which invisible man in the sky is the real one;-)
One, this should be, and would have to be built as, a global system - not just one restricted to receivers in the US. So four min per orbit is a bad assumption. (you yourself noted that multiple rectennae farms would be needed - so what? It's not like there isn't the available land over nearly all orbits)
Two, the longterm idea is that there would be tens, perhaps scores, of these satellites, such that any antennae farm would have at least two and perhaps more in line-sight at any time.
A last point; these aren't intended, nor should they be (Pournelle aside) as one-off solutions, but merely supplements to other existing systems.
I'm actually more of a proponent of what is called "local" power; IOW each home or industrial plant supplies as much power as it needs for itself, and returns surpluses to the grid. Such a thing was hardly practical twenty years ago, and still is very expensive, but it *can* be done with existing technology now. It *should* be done that way. Spreading your energy producers out simply makes good sense, both in terms of transmission efficiency and reliability. We'll need large n/c/g plants and more localized storage to fill in in the interim, but given advances in solar, wind, and hydro production and the capabilities of fuel cells as storage devices it would make the most sense to begin moving our infrastructure that way.
SPS would be able to help fill in the gaps in the local infrastructures, and for mobile objects such as oceangoing ships, planes, places that need emergency power Right Now could just put up a few mobile rectenna arrays. In a sense, kind of a local nonlocal plant;-)
Fossil fuels are not going to last forever, and the cost of obtaining them is never, ever, going to go down. Sooner or later - hopefully after we are both long gone, but I won't count on it given the events of the last few years - those costs will climb high enough that we'll start seeing serious regional military disputes over resources. Some argue that it's already beginning.
SPS could help fill in the gaps. It's expensive, but much less so, given decent launch capability and LEO assembly capability, over a long term. Once built, it's just maintenance costs, unlike a coal, gas or oil fired plant. Much like a nuclear plant. (Not going to count radioactive waste problems, they've been massively overblown).
But mostly what sparked my ire is the talk about radiation levels, which is ridiculous on the face of it. Why would we build such a thing in the first place? I do agree the wiki article wasn't well written, but mostly I was pointing you at the Safety section and hoping you'd read some of the links at the bottom.
Anyway... probably missed some things, trying to keep it short and ttp, as typing hurts right now (fucking carpal)
Perhaps you should tell NASA, NASDA, and all the thousands of engineers and scientists who have worked on this concept for decades, because every study I've read (some of which are linked to at the bottom of that article) disagrees with you.
Sure, there are engineering hurdles. But they don't make the concept impossible.
I'm not going to take the time to rebut all your points - they are already dealt with elsewhere. (This is a pretty good place to start.)
If you miss your target - which itself has to be a thousand square km zone of death - you can say goodbye to any city that the beam happens to flick across.
Other have addressed most of your other points, so all I'll say is that you've apparently spent too much time listening to the hysterical chicken littles and not enough actually finding out what you are talking about.
Continuous babble about who ones second cousin's best friend is sleeping with and what one's friend's friend got for benefits in their job and who *they* are sleeping with is pretty tough to deal with when you don't have the faintest damned clue who the hell those people are.;-)
I'm not even going to touch the conversations based on lobotomy box programs. Shake.
Most introverts generally keep mouths shut, because spilling thoughts can be and often is construed as either insult, libel, unpatriotic speech, or some other similarly stupid label. Or fawning ("sucking up") which can a be much worse thing.
Even most stupid introverts know it's just plain better to zip lip ATPIT. Freedom is infinitely preferable to being Labeled.
Was going to mod you up, as I live much the same; but then I thought of Edward Abbey, and just had to mention him:-)
Agreed. Sometimes one just needs to get away from all this and be oneself... it's something I think more people need to do, if even once in a while, according to their need. Insociety, too often, one can't be oneself, 'cept perhaps with the rare friend.
Oh, some who support the current presidential administration, or the present mayor, or... but not ever met anyone who doesn't have at least one gripe regarding gov, national, state, or local.:-)
Yeah, no kidding. Last time I was in the ER (several fractured bones in my hand, couple years ago) I had to wait behind several other people who... well, let's just say they probably hadn't been able to see their toes in quite some time without severe contortion. Got to listen to them, too, at the admittance desk. All of them had insurance. I didn't. Complaints ranged from "extreme lethargy" to heart palpitations (the latter from someone probably close to half my age but nearly twice my weight at a guess)
Meanwhile, the doctors that see them can't just say "Hey, you eat too much and don't exercise, get off your fat ass!" to those who inflict it upon themselves - and refuse them further treatment until they follow the program. A nurse came out and asked the bunch of us "anyone here who requires immediate treatment?" and nearly everyone raised their hands, including the ! 5'3" ~300lb woman who'd a moment before been chasing her kids all over the waiting room. Um, yeah.
But obesity "treatment" is big biz, brings lotsa dollars, Oprah shows, media attention...
I smoke cigarettes. I know the effects, been smoking for twenty years. (stupid, yes) But I'm in damned good physical shape otherwise, I don't go see a doctor when I bike ten km and I'm out of wind. If that's not a good analogy for many of these people, I don't know what is! (I'm well aware that some people have genetic or medical problems such as diabetes that contribute to obesity, that's not the point I'm trying to make - stated so that somebody else doesn't)
I think part of the problem is the lobotomy box and all the programs on there telling people that they aren't responsible for their own fuckups. Sheeze.
Sigh.
Y'know, I don't bitch much about this. I don't seek medical care often, either - I take care of my own problems unless they might interfere with me making a living. (broken hand bones definitely qualify for a tradesman), and once I put a deep four inch slash in my leg that I cleaned and sutured myself...
Government is, and always will be, composed of people. No form of government we can ever invent will ever, ever be immune to corruption. Ever.
Thus "eternal vigilance".
Even if we achieved a utopian world government, sometime hundreds of generations in the future, there would still be dissidents who will think it should be different.
At least I hope so. If homo sapiens loses it's individuality so far that utopia is truly and completely possible, we won't even have the freedom that ants have. And that would be a very sad thing.
No matter what the year, no matter what the country, anyone who cannot qualify as a "political dissident" in one way or another is a moron.
No. Not morons.
Just haven't been "classed" yet.
Worry not, sooner or later someone[s] will get around to placing each and all of the rest of us in their little structured bureaucratic pigeonholes (even themselves, and therein lies the real irony).
Pretty smart, actually, if you think about it. Do it all at once or too much at once, and the outcry would be too great. Do it a little at a time, and the outcry can be stifled much, much easier. Not that I'm saying that for the most part, it's deliberately evil. It's mostly just blind, ignorant kneejerk reactions on the part of policymakers - those who really are the morons.
Welcome to life. It's not safe. The universe is going to do it's level best to kill you, because entropy has no different set of rules for lifeforms.
Be a moving target - avoid the hazards as best you can, live as best you can, and remember that despite any effort you may make, your lifespan is finite, and you cannot and will not know when entropy will take you until it does.
Oh, and don't forget to have fun along the way.:-)
guess the mod_crack module is being beta tested again, while mod_humor_sense is SOL. Must. Insert. Mod_thc module:-)
*shrug*;-)
Downhill barely begins to describe it, IMNSHO, sigh. I mean there's serious, there's humor, and then there's serious humor... come on, people, get a fucking GRIP.
Nice point! But I think there's a difference between bought and paid politicians, and violation of the seperation of powers of the three branches of government mandated by...
On second thought, never mind. The Constitution and citizen rights have been irrelevant to these assholes and their metaphysical kin for quite a while. To say it's pathetic that the descendants of independant pioneers have let this come to pass is now redundant rather than infuriating.
Sigh.
It's a helluva thing to say, but I think it's time to flee my home country because that country's government no longer believes in nor follows it's own laws. The next frontier is, shall we say, somewhat expensive. Arrrr.
Not that it's a historically unusual viewpoint. Neither is mine.
"The FBI has drafted sweeping legislation that would require Internet service providers to create wiretapping hubs for police surveillance and force makers of networking gear to build in backdoors for eavesdropping, CNET News.com has learned."
FBI Agent Barry Smith distributed the proposal at a private meeting last Friday with industry representatives and indicated it would be introduced by Sen. Mike DeWine, an Ohio Republican, according to two sources familiar with the meeting.... The draft bill would place the FBI's Net-surveillance push on solid legal footing.
Certainly sounds to me like they are drafting legislation. It has not been proposed to the lawmaking body yet.
AFAIK, It's not in their job description to write legal language. It *is* in their purview to report what they are doing to the Congress (whose responsibility it is to draft the legal language) and *recommend* courses of action - not to draft basic legislation.
If I'm wrong, someone please point it out - in detail why, please - and I'll gladly eat crow.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, there are quite a few areas in which that is being done now. One of our local power companies does it as well.
What I'm saying is that it should be a national push to do so.
Of course, then, if the federal gov got involved, it'd turn into another wasteful porkfest. Sigh.
So grassroots and keep the fucking feds out of it - because they'd legislate it, mandate mins, involve the big corps, etc, and we both know what'd happen then.
But our country needs a frontal lobotomy anyway.
SB
I suspect that anything large enough to expose a significant area of the impact to raw vacuum is going to be literally almost earth-shattering ;-)
;-)
Smaller impacts, most of the energy just may go up and out and reduce the, er, impact of the impact somewhat. I don't think anyone really knows what sort of atmospheric effects that large an overpressure wave would have. Would the potential vacuum at the center be replaced by vaporized gases, rock, seawater? A significant portion of the impact energy rebounding from the mantle in the form of vaporized rock is going to go straight up, or nearly so, as well - the earth is still essentially an immovable object even at the scales of 100km diameter impacts.
I don't think we have to worry about Sirius A - likely tens of millions of years yet, and even if there are still intelligent beings in the solar system, they certainly won't resemble humans. But of course the wavefront could already be on it's way here - seems like every few months we find out something new about the behavior of large stars.
But I think you're wrong about shielding. Dig deep enough into a rock like the moon (or perhaps even Ceres or Pallas, or Vesta) and one should be safe enough. But I do agree that what we don't know can kill us. That's why we need to get the hell off this rock and as far as we can and quit fighting over silly things like which invisible man in the sky is the real one
Cheers,
SB
Just a couple quick notes:
;-)
;-)
One, this should be, and would have to be built as, a global system - not just one restricted to receivers in the US. So four min per orbit is a bad assumption. (you yourself noted that multiple rectennae farms would be needed - so what? It's not like there isn't the available land over nearly all orbits)
Two, the longterm idea is that there would be tens, perhaps scores, of these satellites, such that any antennae farm would have at least two and perhaps more in line-sight at any time.
A last point; these aren't intended, nor should they be (Pournelle aside) as one-off solutions, but merely supplements to other existing systems.
I'm actually more of a proponent of what is called "local" power; IOW each home or industrial plant supplies as much power as it needs for itself, and returns surpluses to the grid. Such a thing was hardly practical twenty years ago, and still is very expensive, but it *can* be done with existing technology now. It *should* be done that way. Spreading your energy producers out simply makes good sense, both in terms of transmission efficiency and reliability. We'll need large n/c/g plants and more localized storage to fill in in the interim, but given advances in solar, wind, and hydro production and the capabilities of fuel cells as storage devices it would make the most sense to begin moving our infrastructure that way.
SPS would be able to help fill in the gaps in the local infrastructures, and for mobile objects such as oceangoing ships, planes, places that need emergency power Right Now could just put up a few mobile rectenna arrays. In a sense, kind of a local nonlocal plant
Fossil fuels are not going to last forever, and the cost of obtaining them is never, ever, going to go down. Sooner or later - hopefully after we are both long gone, but I won't count on it given the events of the last few years - those costs will climb high enough that we'll start seeing serious regional military disputes over resources. Some argue that it's already beginning.
SPS could help fill in the gaps. It's expensive, but much less so, given decent launch capability and LEO assembly capability, over a long term. Once built, it's just maintenance costs, unlike a coal, gas or oil fired plant. Much like a nuclear plant. (Not going to count radioactive waste problems, they've been massively overblown).
But mostly what sparked my ire is the talk about radiation levels, which is ridiculous on the face of it. Why would we build such a thing in the first place? I do agree the wiki article wasn't well written, but mostly I was pointing you at the Safety section and hoping you'd read some of the links at the bottom.
Anyway... probably missed some things, trying to keep it short and ttp, as typing hurts right now (fucking carpal)
Cheers, friend. Agreed about skeptics
SB
Perhaps you should tell NASA, NASDA, and all the thousands of engineers and scientists who have worked on this concept for decades, because every study I've read (some of which are linked to at the bottom of that article) disagrees with you.
Sure, there are engineering hurdles. But they don't make the concept impossible.
I'm not going to take the time to rebut all your points - they are already dealt with elsewhere. (This is a pretty good place to start.)
SB
If you miss your target - which itself has to be a thousand square km zone of death - you can say goodbye to any city that the beam happens to flick across.
Ignorant babbling. You may want to read up on it first.
Other have addressed most of your other points, so all I'll say is that you've apparently spent too much time listening to the hysterical chicken littles and not enough actually finding out what you are talking about.
Sheese.
SB
One can get a much bigger boom by exposing the mantle to several thousand feet of ocean water.
Krakatoa was just a firecracker...
SB
and the veneer gets thinner, and thinner.
Understood. I, too, escape syphilization occasionally. Will be doing it again this fall. It's simply necessary... heading for Wind River country.
I hope you get to sail that boat one day, somewhere where clock-wise is not mandatory
SB
Continuous babble about who ones second cousin's best friend is sleeping with and what one's friend's friend got for benefits in their job and who *they* are sleeping with is pretty tough to deal with when you don't have the faintest damned clue who the hell those people are. ;-)
I'm not even going to touch the conversations based on lobotomy box programs. Shake.
Most introverts generally keep mouths shut, because spilling thoughts can be and often is construed as either insult, libel, unpatriotic speech, or some other similarly stupid label. Or fawning ("sucking up") which can a be much worse thing.
Even most stupid introverts know it's just plain better to zip lip ATPIT. Freedom is infinitely preferable to being Labeled.
SB
Was going to mod you up, as I live much the same; but then I thought of Edward Abbey, and just had to mention him :-)
;-)
Agreed. Sometimes one just needs to get away from all this and be oneself... it's something I think more people need to do, if even once in a while, according to their need. Insociety, too often, one can't be oneself, 'cept perhaps with the rare friend.
That said, I'm way overdue...
SB
Never met anyone like that, myself :-)
:-)
Oh, some who support the current presidential administration, or the present mayor, or... but not ever met anyone who doesn't have at least one gripe regarding gov, national, state, or local.
Odd, ain't it?
SB
Yeah, no kidding. Last time I was in the ER (several fractured bones in my hand, couple years ago) I had to wait behind several other people who... well, let's just say they probably hadn't been able to see their toes in quite some time without severe contortion. Got to listen to them, too, at the admittance desk. All of them had insurance. I didn't. Complaints ranged from "extreme lethargy" to heart palpitations (the latter from someone probably close to half my age but nearly twice my weight at a guess)
Meanwhile, the doctors that see them can't just say "Hey, you eat too much and don't exercise, get off your fat ass!" to those who inflict it upon themselves - and refuse them further treatment until they follow the program. A nurse came out and asked the bunch of us "anyone here who requires immediate treatment?" and nearly everyone raised their hands, including the ! 5'3" ~300lb woman who'd a moment before been chasing her kids all over the waiting room. Um, yeah.
But obesity "treatment" is big biz, brings lotsa dollars, Oprah shows, media attention...
I smoke cigarettes. I know the effects, been smoking for twenty years. (stupid, yes) But I'm in damned good physical shape otherwise, I don't go see a doctor when I bike ten km and I'm out of wind. If that's not a good analogy for many of these people, I don't know what is! (I'm well aware that some people have genetic or medical problems such as diabetes that contribute to obesity, that's not the point I'm trying to make - stated so that somebody else doesn't)
I think part of the problem is the lobotomy box and all the programs on there telling people that they aren't responsible for their own fuckups. Sheeze.
Sigh.
Y'know, I don't bitch much about this. I don't seek medical care often, either - I take care of my own problems unless they might interfere with me making a living. (broken hand bones definitely qualify for a tradesman), and once I put a deep four inch slash in my leg that I cleaned and sutured myself...
But sometimes it just gets to be too much...
SB
"D'*hiccup*oh"
It's a last word sort of thing.
SB
What, violence can't be considered a "service"?
SB
Government is, and always will be, composed of people. No form of government we can ever invent will ever, ever be immune to corruption. Ever.
Thus "eternal vigilance".
Even if we achieved a utopian world government, sometime hundreds of generations in the future, there would still be dissidents who will think it should be different.
At least I hope so. If homo sapiens loses it's individuality so far that utopia is truly and completely possible, we won't even have the freedom that ants have. And that would be a very sad thing.
SB
Someday it will be in one.
SB
No matter what the year, no matter what the country, anyone who cannot qualify as a "political dissident" in one way or another is a moron.
No. Not morons.
Just haven't been "classed" yet.
Worry not, sooner or later someone[s] will get around to placing each and all of the rest of us in their little structured bureaucratic pigeonholes (even themselves, and therein lies the real irony).
Pretty smart, actually, if you think about it. Do it all at once or too much at once, and the outcry would be too great. Do it a little at a time, and the outcry can be stifled much, much easier. Not that I'm saying that for the most part, it's deliberately evil. It's mostly just blind, ignorant kneejerk reactions on the part of policymakers - those who really are the morons.
But what the hell do I know.
SB
Welcome to life. It's not safe. The universe is going to do it's level best to kill you, because entropy has no different set of rules for lifeforms.
Be a moving target - avoid the hazards as best you can, live as best you can, and remember that despite any effort you may make, your lifespan is finite, and you cannot and will not know when entropy will take you until it does.
Oh, and don't forget to have fun along the way.
SB
Yeah.
:-)
;-)
Now it's "offtopic".
Eh? WTF?
guess the mod_crack module is being beta tested again, while mod_humor_sense is SOL. Must. Insert. Mod_thc module
*shrug*
Downhill barely begins to describe it, IMNSHO, sigh. I mean there's serious, there's humor, and then there's serious humor... come on, people, get a fucking GRIP.
SB
But shouldn't that be a "Gateway" rep?
SB
Now you've done it, you've created a space-time moderation vortex. Hopefully only slashdot will implode...
SB
"100% Informative"
Uh, mods?
SB
If Darth Vader relied on the current computer industry, Luke would have been irrelevant. Evil would have brought itself crashing down.
Like the poor engineering of the Death Star...
oh, wait. Damn those rebels!
SB
Nice point! But I think there's a difference between bought and paid politicians, and violation of the seperation of powers of the three branches of government mandated by...
On second thought, never mind. The Constitution and citizen rights have been irrelevant to these assholes and their metaphysical kin for quite a while. To say it's pathetic that the descendants of independant pioneers have let this come to pass is now redundant rather than infuriating.
Sigh.
It's a helluva thing to say, but I think it's time to flee my home country because that country's government no longer believes in nor follows it's own laws. The next frontier is, shall we say, somewhat expensive. Arrrr.
Not that it's a historically unusual viewpoint. Neither is mine.
SB
RTFA article yourself.
...
"The FBI has drafted sweeping legislation that would require Internet service providers to create wiretapping hubs for police surveillance and force makers of networking gear to build in backdoors for eavesdropping, CNET News.com has learned."
FBI Agent Barry Smith distributed the proposal at a private meeting last Friday with industry representatives and indicated it would be introduced by Sen. Mike DeWine, an Ohio Republican, according to two sources familiar with the meeting.
The draft bill would place the FBI's Net-surveillance push on solid legal footing.
Certainly sounds to me like they are drafting legislation. It has not been proposed to the lawmaking body yet.
AFAIK, It's not in their job description to write legal language. It *is* in their purview to report what they are doing to the Congress (whose responsibility it is to draft the legal language) and *recommend* courses of action - not to draft basic legislation.
If I'm wrong, someone please point it out - in detail why, please - and I'll gladly eat crow.
SB