Hmmm, when Alpha Processor Inc. (API Networks) introduced the 1U dual-833Mhz EV6x Alpha CS20 over a year ago, I saw no special Slashdot story.
Granted, it was an expensive server ($8000US+)but did run Linux and NetBSD admirably.
Compaq introduced a 1U AlphaServer DS10L
over TWO years ago and no Slashdot story on this either.
Slashdotters would complain that the Alpha-based servers are far too expensive so let's look to the low-end.
Sun introduced its sub-$1000US 1U Sun Fire V100 and Netra X1 servers and yet I never did see a drooling Slashdot story on either of these.
Not to mention that third-party integrators have had 1U dual Intel/AMD rackmounts for over a year as well. Nope, no major Slashdot story on the introduction of these either...
Apple comes late into the game with a non-ECC "Server" (that more closely resembles a desktop G4 stuffed into a 1U enclosure) that runs an unproven OS X (yes, unproven compared to Tru64/Digital UNIX, Solaris and even Linux/Net/FreeBSD) and Slashdotters are ecstatic.
Boy, that Kool-Aid must have been awfully refreshing.
It seems a lot of younger posters aren't familiar with "The HP Way".
Well, if I enlightened you as to what the "HP Way" (or the "DECcie" culture), you'd just cast it off as old-fashioned, Keynsian, Socialist management.
What great technology companies (as opposed to, say, most of the Silicon Valley fly-by-night operations) do is give respect and value: for employees and for customers.
In addition, great technology companies invest heavily in R&D, the accountants', bean-counters' and short-term investors' worst nightmare.
HP and DEC offered in effect lifetime employment among other perks. Sure, some employees took advantage of this and offered low productivity but the innovations of both companies speak for themselves.
HP and DEC actually listened to their customers. In particular, I've spoken directly to DEC engineers in reporting/resolving problems - NOT some third-party technical support office.
Though I've never directly spoken to HP salespeople, DEC salespeople were engineers selling to engineers - NOT some business-school hack who's more qualified selling stock or used cars.
Of course, quality service and quality products are typically low-margin and low-profit; stockholders and accountants shun all this.
Hence, we're left with Microsoft, Compaq (now HPQ), Dell, Apple, Intel and a slew of other substandard, ephemeral technology. At least it's all substantially profitable:-/
How many people does this actually affect? I realize that their are probably some Alpha and Sparc owners on this board and in the community but how many of those people are actually running Debian? Are they really comtemplating dragging out their already elongated release schedule because of two platforms that the vast majority of Debian Users dont care about?
Believe it or not, quite a few of us run Debian on Alpha and SPARC and most of us also care about _correctness_. That is, Debian should behave exactly the same (apart from bootloaders and hardware-specific stuff) across all its supported archs.
Read: correctness. Remember that we Linux advocates (like the NetBSD project) tout the fact that Linux is portable as a mark of its quality? Well, Debian is the practical manifestation of that assertion.
Alot of other distro release x86 first and Sparc/Whatever later on. Why can't Debian do that?
Because Debian doesn't discriminate against non x86 and non PPC users. All are equally important.
And again, the distro is broken until all release-critical issues are resolved on all platforms.
...until then I'm sure more and more people will begin to think of Debian as a dead distribution rather than as an active one.
On the contrary, a lot of non-x86 users (particularly Alpha and SPARC) are abandoning the other distros (esp. commercial distros that must contend with "userbase" viability issues) in favor of Debian.
A analogy: Debian is to Linux as NetBSD is to *BSD.
They really don't have anybody to blame but themselves I mean they are the only ones shipping a distro that still uses the 2.2 kernel.
This shows that you are really clueless about other archs.
I suppose you must fall into either the "overclocked 3+GHz Pentium IV" or "yummy Apple G4 Supercomputer" crowd.
How the shoddiest technology always wins the greatest marketshare:-/
~PA
Re:Space Defense Initiative (SDI)
on
Space Wars
·
· Score: 1
The concept of "defense through deterrence" has a pretty good track record. Just look at nukes and the cold war.
Your view of the world is truly myopic...
Here's two words:
Roman Empire
Here's two more words:
Third Reich
'Defense through deterrence' only serves the ruling nations/classes temporarily at best.
PA
Space Defense Initiative (SDI)
on
Space Wars
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
I believe that the US push for 'defensive' weapons in space is a farce; they're going to primarily be offensive weapons, 'defensive' only in their 'deterrence' to nations (particularly Third-World) that do not possess such weapons....
Dr. Bob Bowman http://rmbowman.com/ssn/
has asserted this for years - his website is an excellent resource for alternative analysis of the SDI programs that you won't find in the major media outlets.
You can thank those Compaq morons in Houston and complicit jerks at Intel for killing Alpha, in particular Compaq CEO Michael Capellas. May they be damned to hell.
Bullshit. The G4 sitting on my desk certainly looks blue (dark blue compared to the G3s we used to have, which were a lighter blue). Blue and Grey perhaps?
The Apple System Profiler indicates that it is indeed a G4, 400Mhz.
There must be some sort of special MacSpeak terminology to denote that difference. Perhaps I need the cult indoctrination before I find out.:-P
Sorry, Apple Macs will have no effect on IBM's RS6k market.
RS6k users want ECC-protected cache and main memory; Apple Macs don't have this.
RS6K users want large 128-bit+ memory paths. Apple Macs still have a 64-bit memory path, much like their PC bretheren.
RS6k users often require standard RS232 ports (for terminals and measuring instruments). Again, Apple Macs don't have serial ports.
RS6k users demand rock-solid reliability. Currently supervising the deployment of 26 Quicksilver G4 Macs, I note that five were DOA. One required a subsequent logic board replacement a week later.
Our last G4 Mac deployment (25 400Mhz blue/white) resulted in four DOA, all with logic board failures.
Sorry, the much-exalted reliability of Apple Macintosh is really a myth - they're really no better than a typical x86 PC and certainly not anywhere near that of RS6k. The price should be a sure indicator:-P
So RedHat gives 64-bit Alpha (one of the best if not one of the most affordable 64-bit platforms) and UltraSPARC tacit lukewarm support and then announces a toolkit for 32-bit PPC (and specifically AltiVec G4 Apple Macintoshes)?
From the
bsa.ORG website: "BSA worldwide members include Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, Borland, CNC Software/Mastercam, Macromedia, Microsoft, Symantec, and Unigraphic Solutions."
Slashdot Mirror
Hmmm, when Alpha Processor Inc. (API Networks) introduced the 1U dual-833Mhz EV6x Alpha CS20 over a year ago, I saw no special Slashdot story.
Granted, it was an expensive server ($8000US+)but did run Linux and NetBSD admirably.
Compaq introduced a 1U AlphaServer DS10L over TWO years ago and no Slashdot story on this either.
Slashdotters would complain that the Alpha-based servers are far too expensive so let's look to the low-end.
Sun introduced its sub-$1000US 1U Sun Fire V100 and Netra X1 servers and yet I never did see a drooling Slashdot story on either of these.
Not to mention that third-party integrators have had 1U dual Intel/AMD rackmounts for over a year as well. Nope, no major Slashdot story on the introduction of these either...
Apple comes late into the game with a non-ECC "Server" (that more closely resembles a desktop G4 stuffed into a 1U enclosure) that runs an unproven OS X (yes, unproven compared to Tru64/Digital UNIX, Solaris and even Linux/Net/FreeBSD) and Slashdotters are ecstatic.
Boy, that Kool-Aid must have been awfully refreshing.
~PA
It seems a lot of younger posters aren't familiar with "The HP Way".
Well, if I enlightened you as to what the "HP Way" (or the "DECcie" culture), you'd just cast it off as old-fashioned, Keynsian, Socialist management.
What great technology companies (as opposed to, say, most of the Silicon Valley fly-by-night operations) do is give respect and value: for employees and for customers.
In addition, great technology companies invest heavily in R&D, the accountants', bean-counters' and short-term investors' worst nightmare.
HP and DEC offered in effect lifetime employment among other perks. Sure, some employees took advantage of this and offered low productivity but the innovations of both companies speak for themselves.
HP and DEC actually listened to their customers. In particular, I've spoken directly to DEC engineers in reporting/resolving problems - NOT some third-party technical support office.
Though I've never directly spoken to HP salespeople, DEC salespeople were engineers selling to engineers - NOT some business-school hack who's more qualified selling stock or used cars.
Of course, quality service and quality products are typically low-margin and low-profit; stockholders and accountants shun all this.
Hence, we're left with Microsoft, Compaq (now HPQ), Dell, Apple, Intel and a slew of other substandard, ephemeral technology. At least it's all substantially profitable :-/
~PA...that HP should drop
... and that Compaq should drop
Now both companies will be the purveyors of WinTel trash and technically illiterate stockholders will rejoice.
Thanks to Carly Fiorina and Michael Capellas for utterly gutting Hewlett-Packard and Digital Equipment!
All the world needs is another PC integrator :-/
> 8088 > 8086 > 80186 > 80286 Unless you're considering the Elks project, Linux won't run on these MPUs. ~PA
How many people does this actually affect? I realize that their are probably some Alpha and Sparc owners on this board and in the community but how many of those people are actually running Debian? Are they really comtemplating dragging out their already elongated release schedule because of two platforms that the vast majority of Debian Users dont care about?
Believe it or not, quite a few of us run Debian on Alpha and SPARC and most of us also care about _correctness_. That is, Debian should behave exactly the same (apart from bootloaders and hardware-specific stuff) across all its supported archs.
Read: correctness. Remember that we Linux advocates (like the NetBSD project) tout the fact that Linux is portable as a mark of its quality? Well, Debian is the practical manifestation of that assertion.
Alot of other distro release x86 first and Sparc/Whatever later on. Why can't Debian do that?Because Debian doesn't discriminate against non x86 and non PPC users. All are equally important.
And again, the distro is broken until all release-critical issues are resolved on all platforms.
On the contrary, a lot of non-x86 users (particularly Alpha and SPARC) are abandoning the other distros (esp. commercial distros that must contend with "userbase" viability issues) in favor of Debian.
A analogy: Debian is to Linux as NetBSD is to *BSD.
They really don't have anybody to blame but themselves I mean they are the only ones shipping a distro that still uses the 2.2 kernel.This shows that you are really clueless about other archs.
I suppose you must fall into either the "overclocked 3+GHz Pentium IV" or "yummy Apple G4 Supercomputer" crowd.
How the shoddiest technology always wins the greatest marketshare :-/
~PA
The concept of "defense through deterrence" has a pretty good track record. Just look at nukes and the cold war.
Your view of the world is truly myopic...
Here's two words:
Roman Empire
Here's two more words:
Third Reich
'Defense through deterrence' only serves the ruling nations/classes temporarily at best.
PA
I believe that the US push for 'defensive' weapons in space is a farce; they're going to primarily be offensive weapons, 'defensive' only in their 'deterrence' to nations (particularly Third-World) that do not possess such weapons....
Dr. Bob Bowman http://rmbowman.com/ssn/ has asserted this for years - his website is an excellent resource for alternative analysis of the SDI programs that you won't find in the major media outlets.
PA
It still is one of the best out there, and the now-defunct Alpha EV8 would have been a powerful contender to IBM POWER4.
Some Alpha EV8 articles:
Alpha EV8 (Part 1): Simultaneous Multi-Threat
Alpha EV8 (Part 2): Simultaneous Multi-Threat
Alpha EV8 (Part 3): Simultaneous Multi-Threat
The Spider and the Mountain (Alpha EV8 vs. Intel Itanium)
You can thank those Compaq morons in Houston and complicit jerks at Intel for killing Alpha, in particular Compaq CEO Michael Capellas. May they be damned to hell.
PA
If you like bits so much, please note that Altivec is 128 bits.
But the G4 core is still 32-bit.
PA
Bullshit. The G4 sitting on my desk certainly looks blue (dark blue compared to the G3s we used to have, which were a lighter blue). Blue and Grey perhaps?
The Apple System Profiler indicates that it is indeed a G4, 400Mhz.
There must be some sort of special MacSpeak terminology to denote that difference. Perhaps I need the cult indoctrination before I find out. :-P
PA
Sorry, Apple Macs will have no effect on IBM's RS6k market.
RS6k users want ECC-protected cache and main memory; Apple Macs don't have this.
RS6K users want large 128-bit+ memory paths. Apple Macs still have a 64-bit memory path, much like their PC bretheren.
RS6k users often require standard RS232 ports (for terminals and measuring instruments). Again, Apple Macs don't have serial ports.
RS6k users demand rock-solid reliability. Currently supervising the deployment of 26 Quicksilver G4 Macs, I note that five were DOA. One required a subsequent logic board replacement a week later.
Our last G4 Mac deployment (25 400Mhz blue/white) resulted in four DOA, all with logic board failures.
Sorry, the much-exalted reliability of Apple Macintosh is really a myth - they're really no better than a typical x86 PC and certainly not anywhere near that of RS6k. The price should be a sure indicator :-P
PA
So RedHat gives 64-bit Alpha (one of the best if not one of the most affordable 64-bit platforms) and UltraSPARC tacit lukewarm support and then announces a toolkit for 32-bit PPC (and specifically AltiVec G4 Apple Macintoshes)?
It certainly is a race to the bottom.
PA
From the bsa.ORG website: "BSA worldwide members include Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, Borland, CNC Software/Mastercam, Macromedia, Microsoft, Symantec, and Unigraphic Solutions."