Basicly everybody with some Monty Python knowlegge.. Starting with Python programmers. Then I think it's the same sketch as in which the Spam song belongs. So I think that on slashdot a nice majority should know where it comes from..:-)
RedHat's CEO said it plainly "... when you go into a bestbuy and buy a digital camera that can sync with linux out of the box, then you know its ready".
Well, in that case it's ready.. I have used two digital camera's up till now, both needing driver installation under windows. Under linux/kde I plug them in, fire up konqueror and below.. I can just copy the images from the camera.. Wow!
And as it goes, hardware makers don't have to write drivers. They just have to release specs.
Maybe, or maybe they got afraid that to many '98 users would eye linux as a usable alternative on the same hardware.. Raalizing that most users just use whatever is on the hardware, keeping them under windows until the next upgrade is probably also a good idea..
First of all because it's "adobe" pdf and not "mspdf" and seconds I expect them to have problems with the P too.. portable.. Can be used on such untrusty systems as those which don't run an MS approved product.. But I'm sure you had already thought of that yourself..;)
I have done user support for many years and no, most users are not morons. They just have a wrong idea about what is "userfriendly". This, together with this whole "my grandma has to be able.. " idea is what bothers me most.
Take the USB from an example above. You buy somethings, it has to be connected. Simple fact of life. Goes for a new carpet, a painting on the wall, a webcam in your computer. Non of those three things are diffictult as such. Of course not everybody has the skills to do them, but he.. we just ask a friend of pay someone. but for the USB.. there suddenly capable people lock up, get fear in their eyes.. "TECH STUFF" aaaarggghhh! Basicly most those USB things have a cable which fits into one slot on the new device and into one slot at the computer. It's not difficult. Grantma can do it.. it just the impression that it's difficult. Actualy using a powerdrill or laying a carpet has much more chance of going wrong.
People have this idea that "userfriendly" means that you look at it and things sort out by them self. This idea, basicly hyped by microsoft, is off course completely rediculous. (and walk into a bookstore to see the long rows of "windows for dummies, windows for absolute beginners etc. etc... to prove them wrong!)
Driving a car? Not really user unfriendly, mostly standarized tools.. Just some 20 to 50 lessons.. Writing with a pen? A nice sloth of time during basic education. Etc. Etc. And a multi-purpose tool like an OS should be obviouse at a single glance? No way.
On the computer side, not logging in is userfriendly. but having trojans and virusses to deal with is not. So we need some protection which is not "userfriendly" but it's better than the alternative. Besides, hardly anybody complains about having to lock their doors again due to the alternatives: being robbed or worse..
When you're the only one you can do what you want. But the moment you start interacting (internet!, Social environment!) everybody has to learn to deal with "user unfriendly" things.
While I agree that userdocumentation can be improved. Get rit of jargon, use way more examples (Many OSS programs lack examples and demofiles to tinker with) etc.etc. But I also think that non-technical users have to be educated somewhat on the fact that they enter a new social group/environment which, like the real world, isn't perfect and has it's own rules and sollutions. But most of all, in my opion we have to get rit of the "users=morons" idea. They are not. They are just not interested so you fix their computer, they bake you an apple-pie..
As an related footnote, for what I blame Microsoft most is that the ruined the perception of computers as trustworthy tools. Nobody finds it strange if they get a blue screen or loose their work or whatever. It's all in a days work under windows. And then they install unix and for example an FTP server and they want something to keep a eye on it.. just to see it's still working.. Why? Because they were used to software stopping for no detectable reason.
Actually bullets don't kill anybody, they just make a hole in a closed circuit. That YOU misuse this hole to let out hard needed liquids is your fault. Besides, did you check for patent infrigment on 'letting liquids out through a hole"? See, you're the only one to blame and in case you survive the hole, you will be punished..
In the USA, for a such a range of crimes (misusing other people property, YOU didn't buy that bullet did you?, patent infrigment, twice probably.. for the bleeding and the stopping the bleeding) The death-penalty comes to mind..
probably because the joke is getting old. Afterall, that's what they say after EVERY release, subrelease, patch, when it's full moon (he, that's today..;-) and after offering a goat.
The version just released is great, much better than the previouse version (which in that case could have been better) but the NEXT version is going to solve all you problems, listens to your problems and buys you a beer too! yawn...
why? They can make the format as open as anyone would like. And then put all this openness in a nice, heavy container with many locks and laywers waving dmca banners..
Half finished depends on what you use. Since all the tools I need are supported more than adequate for my needs linux is finished enough for daily use.
More, linux is beter than windows in a number of aspects which matter for me. First of all, for now virusses and worms are hardly a problem. I hardly ever have to reboot, uptime measured in months are no big deal either. When I do get an error at least I get something which I can copy into a message, post in a newsgroup and actually get an answer.
The biggest mistake open source can make IMHO is to follow MS in their "usefriendly equals stupid users". When I want to learn to ride a bike it will take me a few days. A car? a nice number of lessons. And still MS wants the world to believe that using a computer is a matter of turning on and everything will be obviouse.
Linux/kde (my personal favorite) is more than ready for everybody who is realistic about learning a different environment. And take it from me, after working with different interfaces for some 25 years now, kde and gnome are not "difficult" or "not ready". They are just a different environment with some of their own pecularities. Considering that windows is in it's 6th incarnation now (not counting windows 1 and 2 who hardly anybody ever saw: win3, 95, 98, me, 2000 and xp) and still needs a new and improved interface with every new version AND still has a nice amount of inconsistencies, I think KDE3 is quite nicely humming along.
But he, if you're happy with windows, please use it. After all, I want choice, so why would I deny somebody else his or her preference..
Choice is bad. Monoculture is good. To beat windows you have to become like windows etc. etc. yada yada yada.. Nothing new here.
And the companies, what should they do with so much choice?! Well, very simple and what every company probably already does. Make a choice. And call it the standard for the whole company. Can't make a choice? Flip a coin. The options on the company desktop are KDE and Gnome. It doesn't realy matter all THAT much.
While I agree there is space for distro's with LESS choice, this is not the way to improve open source. Competition is good and will result in choice. Survival of the fittest etc. And a company which cannot deal with a changing environment will go the way of the dinosaur..
Off course the next windows will have virusprotection. MS just bought an anti-virus company. But.. are those people who don't patch update the datafiles? And will MS have the data available in time and correct? And ofcourse, for years to come a lot of people will be perfectly happy with older version of windows.. So don't have your hopes up. Besides, now that everybody (ahum) is protected we don't have to fix IE and outlook anymore, do we?
Sad thing is that even if I read the thing and even if it was in my native language I still wouldn't understand a thing of the gibbilygook in there.. These things are by lawers for lawers.
You're just not paranoid enough.. Let's see. Spam is only spam when it's send by a company with who you don't have a bussiness relationship. Wasn't that the basic idea behind the american anti-spam laws? Well, guess who has a bussiness relationship with 99% of the computerusers?
They're just killing some competition, making a few bucks and some goodwill. And soon we will see the announcement for "Windows DC" for "Direct Communication with our valued custommers".
Don't you worry, with a little fantasy MS is still the evil empire and what ever good the do is first and formost good for themself..
>Hyperlinking to a reply is acceptable. "It may be >considered sufficient to publish (the reply) or make >available a link to it" from the spot of the original >mention.
Basicly they have the right to write their story but not the right to use your press.. eh.. diskspace/bandwide
off course, then again, netscape 4.7 was the last one to support for example roaming access using an LDAP server or mod_roaming under apache.. A very usefull feature for those who use many different machines.
You know, there ARE other reasons not to join the upgrade ratrace..
ah.. yes. one councelor on 1600 students is not exactly usefull for this purpose. In the netherlands (at least at the school where my wife is working, but think at most schools) there is one teacher mentor for a class of say some 30 students. They function as contact with the parents and give the studens someone to go to when they have questions and such.
Slashdot Mirror
Basicly everybody with some Monty Python knowlegge.. Starting with Python programmers. Then I think it's the same sketch as in which the Spam song belongs. So I think that on slashdot a nice majority should know where it comes from..:-)
not enough silicon yet?
RedHat's CEO said it plainly "... when you go into a bestbuy and buy a digital camera that can sync with linux out of the box, then you know its ready".
Well, in that case it's ready.. I have used two digital camera's up till now, both needing driver installation under windows. Under linux/kde I plug them in, fire up konqueror and below.. I can just copy the images from the camera.. Wow!
And as it goes, hardware makers don't have to write drivers. They just have to release specs.
Maybe, or maybe they got afraid that to many '98 users would eye linux as a usable alternative on the same hardware.. Raalizing that most users just use whatever is on the hardware, keeping them under windows until the next upgrade is probably also a good idea..
And besides, being a stupid foreigner and such, it's not MORE laws, it's the application of the SAME law.. Thou shall not abuse your monopoly..
First of all because it's "adobe" pdf and not "mspdf" and seconds I expect them to have problems with the P too.. portable.. Can be used on such untrusty systems as those which don't run an MS approved product..
But I'm sure you had already thought of that yourself..;)
Ah, but you admit you tried..;-)
Which was the only reason why anybody would use it. To upload a compiler and the zmodem sources..
Argh!
I have done user support for many years and no, most users are not morons. They just have a wrong idea about what is "userfriendly". This, together with this whole "my grandma has to be able.. " idea is what bothers me most.
Take the USB from an example above. You buy somethings, it has to be connected. Simple fact of life. Goes for a new carpet, a painting on the wall, a webcam in your computer. Non of those three things are diffictult as such. Of course not everybody has the skills to do them, but he.. we just ask a friend of pay someone. but for the USB.. there suddenly capable people lock up, get fear in their eyes.. "TECH STUFF" aaaarggghhh!
Basicly most those USB things have a cable which fits into one slot on the new device and into one slot at the computer. It's not difficult. Grantma can do it.. it just the impression that it's difficult. Actualy using a powerdrill or laying a carpet has much more chance of going wrong.
People have this idea that "userfriendly" means that you look at it and things sort out by them self. This idea, basicly hyped by microsoft, is off course completely rediculous. (and walk into a bookstore to see the long rows of "windows for dummies, windows for absolute beginners etc. etc... to prove them wrong!)
Driving a car? Not really user unfriendly, mostly standarized tools.. Just some 20 to 50 lessons..
Writing with a pen? A nice sloth of time during basic education. Etc. Etc. And a multi-purpose tool like an OS should be obviouse at a single glance? No way.
On the computer side, not logging in is userfriendly. but having trojans and virusses to deal with is not. So we need some protection which is not "userfriendly" but it's better than the alternative. Besides, hardly anybody complains about having to lock their doors again due to the alternatives: being robbed or worse..
When you're the only one you can do what you want. But the moment you start interacting (internet!, Social environment!) everybody has to learn to deal with "user unfriendly" things.
While I agree that userdocumentation can be improved. Get rit of jargon, use way more examples (Many OSS programs lack examples and demofiles to tinker with) etc.etc.
But I also think that non-technical users have to be educated somewhat on the fact that they enter a new social group/environment which, like the real world, isn't perfect and has it's own rules and sollutions.
But most of all, in my opion we have to get rit of the "users=morons" idea. They are not. They are just not interested so you fix their computer, they bake you an apple-pie..
As an related footnote, for what I blame Microsoft most is that the ruined the perception of computers as trustworthy tools. Nobody finds it strange if they get a blue screen or loose their work or whatever. It's all in a days work under windows. And then they install unix and for example an FTP server and they want something to keep a eye on it.. just to see it's still working.. Why? Because they were used to software stopping for no detectable reason.
Actually bullets don't kill anybody, they just make a hole in a closed circuit. That YOU misuse this hole to let out hard needed liquids is your fault. Besides, did you check for patent infrigment on 'letting liquids out through a hole"? See, you're the only one to blame and in case you survive the hole, you will be punished..
In the USA, for a such a range of crimes (misusing other people property, YOU didn't buy that bullet did you?, patent infrigment, twice probably.. for the bleeding and the stopping the bleeding) The death-penalty comes to mind..
I would think that Gates has a company of marketeers and layers first..
and only some 7 years after os/2 warp had a voice system included..
probably because the joke is getting old. Afterall, that's what they say after EVERY release, subrelease, patch, when it's full moon (he, that's today..;-) and after offering a goat.
The version just released is great, much better than the previouse version (which in that case could have been better) but the NEXT version is going to solve all you problems, listens to your problems and buys you a beer too! yawn...
He's confused with tcp/ip..
why? They can make the format as open as anyone would like. And then put all this openness in a nice, heavy container with many locks and laywers waving dmca banners..
Half finished depends on what you use. Since all the tools I need are supported more than adequate for my needs linux is finished enough for daily use.
More, linux is beter than windows in a number of aspects which matter for me. First of all, for now virusses and worms are hardly a problem.
I hardly ever have to reboot, uptime measured in months are no big deal either.
When I do get an error at least I get something which I can copy into a message, post in a newsgroup and actually get an answer.
The biggest mistake open source can make IMHO is to follow MS in their "usefriendly equals stupid users".
When I want to learn to ride a bike it will take me a few days. A car? a nice number of lessons. And still MS wants the world to believe that using a computer is a matter of turning on and everything will be obviouse.
Linux/kde (my personal favorite) is more than ready for everybody who is realistic about learning a different environment. And take it from me, after working with different interfaces for some 25 years now, kde and gnome are not "difficult" or "not ready". They are just a different environment with some of their own pecularities.
Considering that windows is in it's 6th incarnation now (not counting windows 1 and 2 who hardly anybody ever saw: win3, 95, 98, me, 2000 and xp) and still needs a new and improved interface with every new version AND still has a nice amount of inconsistencies, I think KDE3 is quite nicely humming along.
But he, if you're happy with windows, please use it. After all, I want choice, so why would I deny somebody else his or her preference..
Choice is bad. Monoculture is good. To beat windows you have to become like windows etc. etc. yada yada yada.. Nothing new here.
And the companies, what should they do with so much choice?! Well, very simple and what every company probably already does. Make a choice. And call it the standard for the whole company. Can't make a choice? Flip a coin. The options on the company desktop are KDE and Gnome. It doesn't realy matter all THAT much.
While I agree there is space for distro's with LESS choice, this is not the way to improve open source. Competition is good and will result in choice. Survival of the fittest etc. And a company which cannot deal with a changing environment will go the way of the dinosaur..
Off course the next windows will have virusprotection. MS just bought an anti-virus company. But.. are those people who don't patch update the datafiles? And will MS have the data available in time and correct?
And ofcourse, for years to come a lot of people will be perfectly happy with older version of windows..
So don't have your hopes up. Besides, now that everybody (ahum) is protected we don't have to fix IE and outlook anymore, do we?
Yeah, and we used to have this wonderfull game "bouncing babies" where they were thrown out of a burning building.. Whee!
Sad thing is that even if I read the thing and even if it was in my native language I still wouldn't understand a thing of the gibbilygook in there..
These things are by lawers for lawers.
You're just not paranoid enough.. Let's see. Spam is only spam when it's send by a company with who you don't have a bussiness relationship. Wasn't that the basic idea behind the american anti-spam laws?
Well, guess who has a bussiness relationship with 99% of the computerusers?
They're just killing some competition, making a few bucks and some goodwill. And soon we will see the announcement for "Windows DC" for "Direct Communication with our valued custommers".
Don't you worry, with a little fantasy MS is still the evil empire and what ever good the do is first and formost good for themself..
point 2:
>Hyperlinking to a reply is acceptable. "It may be >considered sufficient to publish (the reply) or make >available a link to it" from the spot of the original >mention.
Basicly they have the right to write their story but not the right to use your press.. eh.. diskspace/bandwide
6) ????
7) profit!
off course, then again, netscape 4.7 was the last one to support for example roaming access using an LDAP server or mod_roaming under apache.. A very usefull feature for those who use many different machines.
You know, there ARE other reasons not to join the upgrade ratrace..
ah.. yes. one councelor on 1600 students is not exactly usefull for this purpose. In the netherlands (at least at the school where my wife is working, but think at most schools) there is one teacher mentor for a class of say some 30 students. They function as contact with the parents and give the studens someone to go to when they have questions and such.