Actually, Representative Democracy. Re-read The Republic if you really want to know what a Republic is. Here is what Wikipedia says on that subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
And writs of Habeas Corpus are intended to prevent you from being held indefinitely without being charged. They do not prevent you from being arrested or purge your arrest record.
I'm not the one jailing them. My clumsy omission of the word "alleged" on a web forum does not deny them any rights. At best, you could accuse me of slandering them, but only if you can show that I had malace towards these people (who I don't know)...
Actually, in a Deomcracy, WE are the ones jailing them. It is our police force that investigates and produces a suspicion of guilt that can lead to an arrest. It is our court that tries the suspects. And if you become part of the jury that determines their guilt or innocence, you most certainly are the ones jailing them. An assumption of guilt just because someone is arrested does take away someone's rights. The Criminal Justice System doesn't exist in a vaccuum... we are it!
Let me be more specific about the question I asked you before. What rights has the State violated by arresting these people who are reasonable suspected of committing a crime? Any?
Well, pardon me. "Your Rights Online" does not only refer to those that are violated. I thought you has asked this:
What exactly does the arrest of criminals by constitutial and fair procedures have to do with "My Rights Online"?
I then pointed out that merely being arrested does not mean these poeple are criminals. I think you would be asking a very different question if you were arrested and sent through our court system. In that light, this article has a lot to do with your rights and how a nerd, doing what nerds do, can run afoul of the law. If nothing else, this article should stand as a warning for those that violate copyright restrictions.
The arrest described in the article is the first step
Bzzt!
Oh, sorry about tat. I have this buzzer that goes off whenever somebody uses a "slippery slope" argument in place of logic.
BZZZTT!!!!
Sorry about that...:) I use that whenever someones truncates a quote to make it appear as something else. The full quote:
The arrest described in the article is the first step, yet you are already refering to those arrested as criminals, with no facts yet submitted to a court in evidence. On that basis, Richard Jewell should be in jail right now.
points out that an arrest is the first step in a process of determinig guilt, part of due process. I am not leading to any "slippery slope", I am pointing out how the courts work. But I see that you once again leaped to a conclusion...
Some people who should have been arrested (because there is compelling evidence that they have broken the law) have been arrested.
Again, this has A LOT to do with your rights. What the suspects were doing led to their arrests, which will lead to trials and eventually a resolution. In response to your original question, this is important stuff. This is your court system at work. It is all about our rights.
You have not made a case as to why this is a Bad Thing.
I never said the facts of ths case were a bad thing. I was gently chiding you for assumptions, but that is understandable.
You've just nit-picked over my semantics.
On that, I agree. Unfortunately, the law is all about nits.
Desir, registered as a student at the University of Iowa, waived indictment and pleaded guilty Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Des Moines. He faces a maximum 15 years in prison on felony counts of copyright infringement and conspiracy. Sentencing is set for March 18
I was basing my reaction on this paragraph:
On April 21, FBI agents executed a search warrant at his residence, seizing six personal computers, various computer components and equipment as well as computer games and software. Desir cooperated with authorities from the beginning, even signing a statement detailing his activities. He also has admitted to creating a second library federal agents seized in California.
However, is it just this one person arrested and convicted so far? Where are the 1000s from the title?
I wonder what software he was distributing? Are there any articles listing this?
and according to TFA, the "alleged" criminal in question has pleaded guilty and is cooperating with the investigation
No, actually he has signed a statement and cooperated. He has not yet pled guilty in a court, been convicted or sentenced. He could still recant everything. While that may be stupid, it's probably not as stupid as what got him in the article in the first place...
What rights of the alleged criminals have been violated?
Their right to due process by your assumption of their guilt merely from their arrest. This also puts your due process rights in jeopardy. I would also submit that you cannot determine if the arrests are justified or not. That is a matter for a court of law.
There's nothing in this story about unethical behavior, discrimination, brutality, or unlawful intrusion. There's an awful lot of evidence that they committed crimes, and the FBI arrested them for those crimes based on that evidence.
Your rights extend far beyond those you list.
The arrest described in the article is the first step, yet you are already refering to those arrested as criminals, with no facts yet submitted to a court in evidence. On that basis, Richard Jewell should be in jail right now.
Besides, there is another way to look at this...
IF I were a sofware developer, I would be pressing the FBI to release the deatils of what software was found, not just the ones that the BSA deems important. It sounds like Desir is about to plead guilty, given the cooperation sited in the article. I would like to know if any of my interests have been compromised here...
I won't ever justify or defend actual criminal conduct. I'm the kind of guy that got our company to make a donation to a local Breast Cancer Awareness fund to thank the author of Kixtart, pay for Tree Size and abide strictly by all shareware terms.
I was trying to make a point about your rights and how people perceive you once you've been arrested. Just because you are arrested doesn't prove you are actually guilty of anything. That's what we have courts for.
It pains me to see people misunderstand that. Just having to answer "Yes" to the question "Have you ever been arrested for a felony?" is enough to keep you from being hired most anywhere. So many people fail to realize how easily your rights can be lost that it frightens me. Just blithely assuming that since someone is arrested they are guilty displays a dangerous naivety...
What exactly does the arrest of criminals by constitutial and fair procedures have to do with "My Rights Online"?
According to those same "constitutial and fair procedures..." all of those arrested are inncent, not yet criminals. Once the charges are proved, then you can call them criminals. Untill then, they are suspects awaiting trial to determine if they are criminals.
And actually, this has a lot to do with your rights. I've said it here before (and I'll keep repeating it until you folks get it:-)) that the old line "If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear." is about as big a fairy tale as you can find. False accusations, and the arrests they can lead to, can ruin your life without your ever being convicted of a crime.
This has everything to do with your rights. The sooner you realize this, the safer you'll be.
I don't think Maureen wants to reveal these things (or anything) in this case. She is saying here that there are secrets buried in the sealed evidence that will destroy Linux and the Open Source Movement, but, gosh golly darnit, the judge won't let us see it!
This is just FUD, served up as a news story by a person with a very public agenda. I am sure that Maureen does not expect to see the evidence. She just wants to make a lot of noise about it.
How about a name? This AC bullhockey is annoying. How can anyone be sure that they are having a conversation with the same person when you post anonymously?
Where the heck are you? When I was in Iceland, they gave the sysadmins M-16s and had them stand around the planes to protect them.
Of course, that was the weekend the Marines all left the base because the Air Force was giving the sysadmins real guns. Never did get the ammo, though...
And hunting together in packs implies more predation than scavenging. It is thought that younger members of a T-Rex family group would drive prey torwards the massive jaws of the slower moving adults.
As was stated, schools are required by law to know where their students are at all times while they are under the jurisdiction of the school. This includes until and where they get off the bus. Why do you think there are assigned bus routes for children?
Certainly not so that they can report the student's whereabouts to the police when there is absolutely no problem. Why do the police have to know that a child's ID badge has entered a school?
BTW, I'm sure you know that requirement varies from state to state. And also, where does that jurisdiction end? What about the bus stops? Or the path from the kid's front door to the bus stop? Just how much do we need to track people to protect them?
And if you read this article you''' see that the story begins with the local chief of police tracking a student.
No, pardon my paranoia, but why do the police need to track anyone without probable cause? Notice that the district has never had a kidnapping incident.
And I can't imagine that these are any better than any other technology designed to track students. These are ID badges with RFID chips in them that have to be swiped against a reader. This means they can still be lost, the reader can malfunction or Little Johnny can give his card to a friend and have an airtight alibi while he cherry bombs the toilets. And this is the type of system the police are using? The potential for abuse boggles the mind. Just read in the article about the problems they are experiencing already...
I remember Miss Eustice, my fourth grade teacher very well. Had a bit of a crush on her...
She bought a set of children's encyclopedias that we could read when we were done with our regular assignments (she held that out as a reward). Those probably inspired two things. One, from fourth grade on, I read all the time, anything I could. Second, science and history became very interesting. I still remember reading in those encyclopedias about Roman Marching camps and their importance to Roman military dominance.
Mr. Markovich was my ninth grade Social Studies teacher. He would stage a current affairs game each week in class, which I did very well in because I read everything (newspapers, Time, US News and World Report) and watched the nightly news when I could. He got me advanced materials that were designed to make you question what you had been taught and make up your own mind. I still remember being a little doubtful about sailing across the Atlantic in leather boats...
So, quick answer is that I remember this because I had some very good teachers that challenged me and made me curious to learn more on my own. Thank God for them.
As an American, I would hope your knowledge of English was better.
As an American, I remember learning about the Viking settlements in Canada, the possible Portugese fisheries off the Grand Banks and even St Brendan's voyages in the ninth grade. I also remeber reading that Columbus was the first European to discover America and advertise the fact in the fourth grade.
Einstein's Nobel prize was awarded by Swedish authorities in 1921, well before the post World War II era.
I think that you just someone that can't believe anything that invalidates your narrow and bigoted world view. Please go find a rock you can crawl under and let the rest of us enjoy the sunshine.
This was a STUPID stunt. I believe that any interference with a person's right to vote is wrong. I'd rather have as many people as possible vote than have my candidate win. And I hope every possible incident where the validity of the vote count is questionable is investigated, no matter who is on the wrong side of the count.
I believe that whoever wins the election, the country will be in the hands of actual patriots that care for it, even if I don't agree with their picture of my country's future. And I've always thought that the most important job those elected have is to ensure that the next election is as fair and free as humanly possible.
Yes, I heard about it. And no, I did not cheer for it. And whoever did it, I hope they are caught and appropriately punished.
The second paragraph of your comment, however, is almost as bad. Posted anonymously without any attribution, it is an example of the un-civil discourse plaguing the United States today. It puts those that disagree with you in a bad light and spreads a rumor about those responsible for the act that is yet to be confirmed. Your statement is a perfect example of saying just a bit too much.
Let's remember how to speak politely in public before the next election. Please.
Slashdot Mirror
Sounds like a John Holmes movie I saw once...
Where's that +1, Thor's Hammer, moderation when you need it?
In standard space universal measure, roughly 1/2000 of a classic Volkswagen Beetle.
And writs of Habeas Corpus are intended to prevent you from being held indefinitely without being charged. They do not prevent you from being arrested or purge your arrest record.
Actually, in a Deomcracy, WE are the ones jailing them. It is our police force that investigates and produces a suspicion of guilt that can lead to an arrest. It is our court that tries the suspects. And if you become part of the jury that determines their guilt or innocence, you most certainly are the ones jailing them. An assumption of guilt just because someone is arrested does take away someone's rights. The Criminal Justice System doesn't exist in a vaccuum... we are it!
Well, pardon me. "Your Rights Online" does not only refer to those that are violated. I thought you has asked this:
I then pointed out that merely being arrested does not mean these poeple are criminals. I think you would be asking a very different question if you were arrested and sent through our court system. In that light, this article has a lot to do with your rights and how a nerd, doing what nerds do, can run afoul of the law. If nothing else, this article should stand as a warning for those that violate copyright restrictions.
BZZZTT!!!!
Sorry about that... :) I use that whenever someones truncates a quote to make it appear as something else. The full quote:
points out that an arrest is the first step in a process of determinig guilt, part of due process. I am not leading to any "slippery slope", I am pointing out how the courts work. But I see that you once again leaped to a conclusion...
Again, this has A LOT to do with your rights. What the suspects were doing led to their arrests, which will lead to trials and eventually a resolution. In response to your original question, this is important stuff. This is your court system at work. It is all about our rights.
I never said the facts of ths case were a bad thing. I was gently chiding you for assumptions, but that is understandable.
On that, I agree. Unfortunately, the law is all about nits.
I was basing my reaction on this paragraph:
However, is it just this one person arrested and convicted so far? Where are the 1000s from the title?
I wonder what software he was distributing? Are there any articles listing this?
No, actually he has signed a statement and cooperated. He has not yet pled guilty in a court, been convicted or sentenced. He could still recant everything. While that may be stupid, it's probably not as stupid as what got him in the article in the first place...
Their right to due process by your assumption of their guilt merely from their arrest. This also puts your due process rights in jeopardy. I would also submit that you cannot determine if the arrests are justified or not. That is a matter for a court of law.
Your rights extend far beyond those you list.
The arrest described in the article is the first step, yet you are already refering to those arrested as criminals, with no facts yet submitted to a court in evidence. On that basis, Richard Jewell should be in jail right now.
Besides, there is another way to look at this...
IF I were a sofware developer, I would be pressing the FBI to release the deatils of what software was found, not just the ones that the BSA deems important. It sounds like Desir is about to plead guilty, given the cooperation sited in the article. I would like to know if any of my interests have been compromised here...
I was trying to make a point about your rights and how people perceive you once you've been arrested. Just because you are arrested doesn't prove you are actually guilty of anything. That's what we have courts for.
It pains me to see people misunderstand that. Just having to answer "Yes" to the question "Have you ever been arrested for a felony?" is enough to keep you from being hired most anywhere. So many people fail to realize how easily your rights can be lost that it frightens me. Just blithely assuming that since someone is arrested they are guilty displays a dangerous naivety...
And actually, this has a lot to do with your rights. I've said it here before (and I'll keep repeating it until you folks get it :-)) that the old line "If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear." is about as big a fairy tale as you can find. False accusations, and the arrests they can lead to, can ruin your life without your ever being convicted of a crime.
This has everything to do with your rights. The sooner you realize this, the safer you'll be.
Let's hope that they do as good a job with this as they did integrating the browser. That will make me feel so much more sec... ah, wait.
Never mind...
The car may be fifteen feet long, but I doubt the cell phone is, and that's waht we're actually checking the speed of.
One cell phone hitting a concrete wall at 220 MPH will not take long to go to zero MPH...
This is just FUD, served up as a news story by a person with a very public agenda. I am sure that Maureen does not expect to see the evidence. She just wants to make a lot of noise about it.
How about a name? This AC bullhockey is annoying. How can anyone be sure that they are having a conversation with the same person when you post anonymously?
Of course, that was the weekend the Marines all left the base because the Air Force was giving the sysadmins real guns. Never did get the ammo, though...
And hunting together in packs implies more predation than scavenging. It is thought that younger members of a T-Rex family group would drive prey torwards the massive jaws of the slower moving adults.
Think more of a wolf pack.
Certainly not so that they can report the student's whereabouts to the police when there is absolutely no problem. Why do the police have to know that a child's ID badge has entered a school?
BTW, I'm sure you know that requirement varies from state to state. And also, where does that jurisdiction end? What about the bus stops? Or the path from the kid's front door to the bus stop? Just how much do we need to track people to protect them?
No, pardon my paranoia, but why do the police need to track anyone without probable cause? Notice that the district has never had a kidnapping incident.
And I can't imagine that these are any better than any other technology designed to track students. These are ID badges with RFID chips in them that have to be swiped against a reader. This means they can still be lost, the reader can malfunction or Little Johnny can give his card to a friend and have an airtight alibi while he cherry bombs the toilets. And this is the type of system the police are using? The potential for abuse boggles the mind. Just read in the article about the problems they are experiencing already...
In related news, Lone Coder's programs have increased in price from 19.99 through 39.99 dollars to 39.99 through 59.99 dollars...
With thanks to Saturday Night Live!
She bought a set of children's encyclopedias that we could read when we were done with our regular assignments (she held that out as a reward). Those probably inspired two things. One, from fourth grade on, I read all the time, anything I could. Second, science and history became very interesting. I still remember reading in those encyclopedias about Roman Marching camps and their importance to Roman military dominance.
Mr. Markovich was my ninth grade Social Studies teacher. He would stage a current affairs game each week in class, which I did very well in because I read everything (newspapers, Time, US News and World Report) and watched the nightly news when I could. He got me advanced materials that were designed to make you question what you had been taught and make up your own mind. I still remember being a little doubtful about sailing across the Atlantic in leather boats...
So, quick answer is that I remember this because I had some very good teachers that challenged me and made me curious to learn more on my own. Thank God for them.
As an American, I remember learning about the Viking settlements in Canada, the possible Portugese fisheries off the Grand Banks and even St Brendan's voyages in the ninth grade. I also remeber reading that Columbus was the first European to discover America and advertise the fact in the fourth grade.
Einstein's Nobel prize was awarded by Swedish authorities in 1921, well before the post World War II era.
I think that you just someone that can't believe anything that invalidates your narrow and bigoted world view. Please go find a rock you can crawl under and let the rest of us enjoy the sunshine.
If I buy a set of crayons and make a drawing of Spiderman, how is that different than creating a Spider-man like character in the game?
Aren't the mechanics there in both cases? Aren't we talking about limited combinations leading to infinite posibilites?
This was a STUPID stunt. I believe that any interference with a person's right to vote is wrong. I'd rather have as many people as possible vote than have my candidate win. And I hope every possible incident where the validity of the vote count is questionable is investigated, no matter who is on the wrong side of the count.
I believe that whoever wins the election, the country will be in the hands of actual patriots that care for it, even if I don't agree with their picture of my country's future. And I've always thought that the most important job those elected have is to ensure that the next election is as fair and free as humanly possible.
The second paragraph of your comment, however, is almost as bad. Posted anonymously without any attribution, it is an example of the un-civil discourse plaguing the United States today. It puts those that disagree with you in a bad light and spreads a rumor about those responsible for the act that is yet to be confirmed. Your statement is a perfect example of saying just a bit too much.
Let's remember how to speak politely in public before the next election. Please.
AAARRRRGGHH!!!! Thanks, now I am going to have that song stuck in my mind right through the entire f*@$!#g holiday season...