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Atlantis Found. Again.
Tufriast writes "Paul McCartney and Mythic eat your heart out! BBC News has an interesting revelation regarding the lost city of Atlantis: "American researchers claim to have found convincing evidence that locates the site of the lost kingdom of Atlantis off the coast of Cyprus."" Hey, here's an idea: The idea of an almost mythical lost civilization is common thread throughout all old human societies - much like, say, really big Floods. Perhaps there could be more then one story that fits? But, no, that wouldn't be a simplistic enough answer to be sound-bitten into oblivion.
But, no, that wouldn't be a simplistic enough answer to be sound-bitten into oblivion.
In today's USA political climate, any such suggestion smacks of rabid anti-bible terrorism. Better watch them words, pardner!
Infuriate left and right
And then promptly found ;P
ObOntarget: They believe Atlantis is off of Spain..
I found it here, in the lint in my left front pocket!
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
OR perhaps all the stories originated from one actual occurance, but have become distorted through years of relay from one generation to the next.
-- i am jack's amusing sig file
I remember reading a while back about the possibility that Atlantis had been on the Northern edge (yep, that'll be all of them) of the Antarctic continent, before we entered the current ice-age (we're in an interglacial at the moment, technically still an ice age). See levels would have been higher, but Antarctica/Atlantis would have had a climate similar to modern britain.
Contrasting this, early greek explorers who went to 'Atlantis' noted that the natives were 'red skinned with horse-like hair', almost identical to Christopher Columbus' description of Native Americans!
Does this mean Disney will now claim rights to all of the artifacts, and will release toys packaged with Happy Meals.
Here is another idea: Maybe the story is based on something that DID happen?
So finding the factual basis for a myth would be quite amazin, innit m8?
Well I for one welcome our new alien over--I'm sorry, I'm reading from the wrong story. Well I for one welcome our new lost civilization overlords...
Don't sweat the petty things. Don't pet the sweaty things. --Stephen J. Simmons
Where have you been hidding in a hole or something? I have been watching a elite team explore this place every friday night on the sci-fi channel, get with the program why don't you!
Personal Website
find Jesus?
Sounds like the White House to me.
My other processor is big-endian.
Hey, here's an idea. The primary job of an editor is to edit not editorialize.
Sheesh.Read Graham Hancock's Underworld : http://www.grahamhancock.com/underworld/
It has a much more generic and in my opinion much more plausible explanation for all the flood myths of this world.
Perhaps there could be more then one story that fits? But, no, that wouldn't be a simplistic enough answer to be sound-bitten into oblivion.
If you're an archaeologist, it's alot easier to get funding for your excavation if you make it sound like your project has major ramifications to the history of humanity.
It's just good business to call it Atlantis.
"If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
They've got it all wrong. Atlantis can only be reached via the stargate using an 8 digit address!
Tsk, don't these people know anything?
Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
I want to know why everyone assumes the name of this discovery is Atlantis. How can we know the name of an ancient civilization we discover before we discover it?
Anyway, wouldn't Mediterranis be far more appropriate, given its location?
It's spelled "than"...
I thought they found it in Pegasus galaxy...
http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/
Funny, I don't recall any aboriginal dreamtime stories about Atlantis.
You'd think that 40,000 year old cultures would have the edge on that sort of thing.
Classical Liberalism: All your base are belong to you.
Atlantis NEVER existed!
l antis is a legendary island in the Atlantic, west of Gibraltar, that sunk beneath the sea during a violent eruption of earthquakes and floods some 9,000 years before Plato wrote about it in his Timaeus and Critias. In a discussion of utopian societies, Plato claims that Egyptian priests told Solon about Atlantis. Plato was not describing a real place any more than his allegory of the cave describes a real cave. The purpose of Atlantis is to express a moral message in a discussion of ideal societies, a favorite theme of his. The fact that nobody in Greece for 9,000 years had mentioned a battle between Athens and Atlantis should serve as a clue that Plato was not talking about a real place or battle. Nevertheless, Plato is often cited as the primary source for the reality of a place on earth called Atlantis. Here is what the Egyptian priest allegedly told Solon:
....
From
http://skepdic.com/atlantis.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
At
Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.
Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. (Timaeus)
The story is reminiscent of what Athens did against the Persians in the early 5th century BCE, but the battle with Atlantis allegedly took place in the 8th or 9th millennium BCE. It would not take much of an historical scholar to know that Athens in 9,000 BCE was either uninhabited or was occupied by very primitive people. This fact would not have concerned Plato's readers because they would have understood that he was not giving them an historical account of a real city. To assume, as many believers in Atlantis do, that there is a parallel between Homer's Iliad and Odyssey and Plato's Critias and Timaeus is simply absurd. And those who think that just as Schliemann found Troy so too will we someday crack Plato's code and find Atlantis are drawing an analogy where they should be drawing the curtains. Plato's purpose was not to pass on stories, but to create stories to teach moral lessons. What can we expect next from these lost scholars? A search for the grave of Cecrops, the serpent-tailed first king of Athens? The discovery of the true trident of Poseidon?
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but making claims about finding Atlantis based on preliminary sonar imagery might be jumping the gun a little bit. In a sea that's been heavily travelled since human kind first built boats, it could be a lot of different things. Even if it's a civilization, it could be one of many Mediterrannean settlements that nobody knew was missing.
My point is that until they come up with some underwater photos, artifacts, or both, it's a bit early to claim that they found something that might not have even existed in the first place.
"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
... has dealt with this topic. Anything I write would just reword what David wrote, so I'll skip the redundancy. :)
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
Their is a map to Atlantis on the back of the constitution written in invisible ink!
Amazing. All those speaking on topics they know so very little about. Oh well. I guess that's your right to do so.
Of course if some other ideology ruled the earth you wouldn't have the Internet or Slashdot.
Something to think about, from a 43 year old Marine Corps Vet.
Worst. Lost. Civilization. Evar.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
What on earth? Yes, I read the linked article, but sheesh that is so random and off topic. Eat his heart out? Because he may have sung back up on a song called atlantis that he is so proud of he's not even credited with it? WTF?
That looks just like the face on Mars so it must be true!
Personally, I'm just eager to see what they find, if it is found. Ancient archeological surprises are pretty cool, as it always astounds me how relatively advanced some of these civilizations were, to only fall back into ignorance before we finally moved into the modern age.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
In "western" civiliation there is no history of this story prior to Plato. Plato has a fictional character, Timeos (sp?), tell the story of Atlantis. The story is an obvious parable illustrating Plato's ideas about how things decline.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
The theme of a synthesis between ancient civilizations leads one to believe that there is indeed a proto-civilization based in Atlantis. Not sure if they take Visa, though.
prove it. :)
The only mention of the place comes from Plato. He was telling a story about an evil, technologically superior force( The Atlantians) getting defeated by the 'just and moral' Athenians. Plato was telling a tale with similar themes to Star Wars, etc : The just and moral will overcome the wicked and powerful.
There was nothing more to it. No other historians wrote about it, none of Plato's contemporaries made any mention of it.
Now, were there civilizations that got zapped by a flood/volcano/earthquake, etc? Sure.
But was there an advanced civilization on an island in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean that got its ass kicked by the Greeks sometime between 1200-10000 BC (Depending on if you take Plato's words of 10k years literarly or not)?
Doubt it.
Jesus used to be my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.
The city of Troy and its eventual sacking is only a myth and doesn't really exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy
Looks like the existance of this story has been lost too!
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
The AP article can be found here, on CNN.
Just how often do we have to "solve" the mystery of Atlantis? When will the media accept that not every sunken city Atlantis, and that it probably isn't the last time that someone will find a site sunken by volcanic activity. Most of these discoveries are occuring in an area with large amounts of Volcanic activity, so doesn't it just make sense that these cities are there?
I found it in 1992 playing Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis. It blew up shortly after we discovered it, so I doubt there's anything left to find.
But, no, that wouldn't be a simplistic enough answer to be sound-bitten into oblivion.
Is it just me, or is Hemos in an unusually argumentative mood this morning? He isn't usually that sarcastic.
In all seriousness, though, don't underestimate the possibility that there may have been a historical Atlantis. Remember, historians used to believe that Troy was only a myth. There's nothing particularly improbable about an ancient city existing, nor is it improbable that it might be destroyed in a manner similar to Pompeii. Personally, though, I have my doubts about this particular discovery. The man who announced it sounds a little flaky, I wonder if he either made up the evidence, or misinterpreted it. But that doesn't mean that Atlantis will never be found, or that it doesn't exist. Whether it will be as spectacular a find as people seem to hope for is another question.
But I say I am skeptical about this discovery. Mainly because of who funded the expedition. It cost about $250k, which was raised by proceedes from book sales and donations, with the largest donation of $60k comming from a "Tourisim" society/acency in Cypris. Well, where does "Atlatis" show up? Off the coast of Cypris...
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
I could swear that Stargate SG-1 found the city in another galaxy.
See here and here.
Cmon, can't you guys get anything right?
Oh wait..
Sig it.
I can understand if a Tsumia hit or when the ice age ended that the sea rose and covered it, but 1.25 miles underwater is quite extreme.
I looked at the sonogram pic from the bbc site. I did not see these mysterious circles and that structure could be natural occuring from an underwater fault.
http://saveie6.com/
Altantis seems to be very mobile. It's been spotted in Cyprus now. Last time it was Ireland, before that it was in Spain and then Gibraltar
Prior to that it was in the mid atlantic where it moved to from Greece. Of course, it's original location was off the coast of Cornwall.
Really big floods aren't an outrageous mythical proposition. Neither is an anti-religion bias.
sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
... so here is one from some swedish news: a bunch of urns
Surprisingly that picture doesn't seem very common in related stories from a Google News search.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
2) The site is located 1600 meters (about 1 mile) below the surface.
3) The biblical flood he attributes to/identifies as the Flooding of the Med when the Atlantic broke through the mountain wall at Gibraltar. Geology indicates that while such an event did take place, it was 6 million years ago, not at the end of the Ice Age.
Therefore, it is more likley that the site is an old flooded out UFO base from the time period of the flood out, in my opinion. It would have been logical to have such bases in the Med basin, as there would have been spectacular salt flats in bottom of the Med basin, making an easy to find landmark from space, and a useful landing strip. Of course, any structures there have been flooded out very long ago.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Am I the only one that thinks the "canal" and "outer wall" looks like a section of the hill just broke off and slid down the slope? It also looks far from straight, as the story claims.
This sentence no verb.
Any new archaeological find is potentially interesting, but I wouldn't get all excited about this, for two reasons. First, nothing much is known. Sonar doesn't tell you very much, not even whether it is really an archaeological site. It is all too common for people to decide that something must be manmade because the edges are too straight or something like that, only for it to turn out to be a natural geological formation. Without further evidence, we won't know what this is.
Secondly, supposing that these are the remains of a city, what makes this one more exciting than any other? I submit that what makes it exciting is the association with the Atlantis legend of a particularly advanced society. But that is precisely the part of Plato's story that is most likely false. Even if his story is based on a real city that was submerged, it was most likely an ordinary city of its time, perhaps well off by the standards of the day, but not the amazingly advanced civilization of sci-fi movies. We can't of course rule it out entirely, but we will only have reason to believe it if actual evidence is found, and at present there isn't any.
Atlanta was more than just a delta hub. And the caffeine can really speed up the evolutionary process. Wooo doggies!
"We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
If you're going to look for Atlantis, you may as well look for Metropolis, Twin Peaks, Paradise City, etc.
See what happened? There was an ancient politician in Atlantis (looked a lot like Algore BTW), said there was GW going on and it would flood the city. They didn't listen either. They just kept on breathing and making that terrible CO2 just as before.
And you now must relinquish your
Bit of trivia: what was Kent Brockman's given name, before he became a TV personality and 'updated' it?
Kenny Brockelstein.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
With all the dupes this current story is likely to get, I'd say Atlantis is bound to be discovered again and again(and again etc..) Possibly even multiple times this week!
I know exactly where it is. It's at the intersection of I-75, I-85 and I-20. I go there all the time. What's the big deal?
What?
Oh AtlantIS.
Sorry.
The time since the Mediterranean flooded last is measured in megayears, not kiloyears. All he's got is sonar, and it's pretty easy to interpret unusual formations as signs of civilization. Take the interstate highways, for example.
In related news, the stories of voyagers traveling back in time and interacting with the present-day citizens of Earth, being a common threat in all five of the Star Trek series, as well as one of the movies, is proof that the events of Star Trek will all become real historical facts.
Upstairs Dog, Downstairs People.
Getting your history lessons from someone who can't even spell their own domain name properly is not a good idea...
Great Futurama reference! I don't have mod points so I can't help you out but maybe someone else will be so kind.
Was a pretty good episode too. Especially the entire scene of how/why Atlanta sank into the sea. Then there was Frys reaction when he was about to get jiggy and had to be explained how the merfolk procreate.
Of course, don't forget your underwater suppository to help counteract the water pressure at those depths.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
>>Perhaps there could be more then one story that fits? >>But, no, that wouldn't be a simplistic enough answer to >> be sound-bitten into oblivion. Tsk! Such obvious cynicism is very unattractive.
The Minoan millennia's history is still almost completely unguessable. Archaeological sites that exist are difficult to find, sometimes obscured by this volcanic action, water (changing sea levels) or by the massive desertification that occurred in North Africa. There may be still much to learn from seawrecks on the bottom of the Mediterranean, though.
These events probably also formed the factual basis for the Biblical plagues of Egypt. (huge volcano-caused climate changes, tsunamis, earthquakes, etc. resulting in a 'nuclear winter' lasting several years in which a significant portion of the Northern Hemisphere's population died of starvation.) The volcanic caldera of the present-day Aegean island of Santorini was probably the location of this explosion. The surviving Minoans clearly were scattered across the world...the Phoenecians, the Carthaginians, and many other ancient Semitic cultures (the Sephardic Jews and the Arabs) may all be descended from them. So were the Pelasgians. And perhaps the Philistines of the Biblical era.
The Minoans were probably the real proto-Greeks.
They are truly an enigma. It appears that they lived most of this time in peace, indeed, the remains of their cities that we have found never have walls. They had indoor plumbing, flush toilets, buildings up to five stories high. There are traces of their influence all the way from Spain to India. They were probably the model for Tolkien's "Numenorians", as well as many cultural myths.. Read Platos "Critas' and "Timmaeus' for his version of the story.. Its fascinating. They were Europe's first advanced civilization... Their written language (what little that we have) Linear A has still not been deciphered and it is one of the great mysteries in linguistics...and cryptology..
Ah well, one can dream...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
...because it's in the pegasus galaxy! I'm pretty sure, I already saw it on tv. What's there next to cyprus is just another abondened outpost from the ancients..
wait, maybe I should watch less tv..
--
Regards,
Wiktor
Well, keep in mind that we have the legend of Noah and the flood on the one hand, and the fact that at about that time the Mediterranean broke through at Istanbul and filled up what is now the Black Sea.
Hey, here's an idea: The idea of an almost mythical lost civilization is common thread throughout all old human societies - much like, say, really big Floods. Perhaps there could be more then one story that fits? But, no, that wouldn't be a simplistic enough answer to be sound-bitten into oblivion.
-Hemos, from the original post
Hemos tries to make a good point, but reduces himself to ineffectual sarcasm -- evidently because he didn't RTFA.
Yes, many cities were flooded and sunk in ancient times. Yes, these events have become mythologized as a generic Atlantis.
But the article makes very clear: the discovers believe that *this* Atlantis is the Atlantis of Plato, because the dimesions and layout of the sunken city closely correspond to Plato's descriptions.
-kgj
-kgj
Also, Atlantis is an allegory to show the futility of huge military buildup. Ref: Sciam, 10/04
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
the USAF already found Atlantis in the Pegasus Galaxy.
Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials
Written by a Bush....!
HEY, George Bush, and the Burning Bush!? Any relation?
Well, since the story of "Atlantis" is a greek one, I think it's possible that the city in question could be Atlantis.
That doesn't rule out that there could have been other cities in other civilizations that became "lost."
Just because other cultures and civilizations have similar tales, doesn't mean that Greek civilization didn't know of a distinct city called Atlantis that was lost to history.
- dj
FROM: ENGR.DANLADI ABUBAKAR
.....
DIRECTOR CONTRACT AWARD COMMITEE/FOREIGN BILLS
CONTRACT DEPARTMENT
NIG^H^H^H ATLANTIS NATIONAL PETROLUEM CORPORATION (NNPC)
E-MAIL:danladi1@echina.com.atl
DEAR FRIEND,
I AM SURE THAT MY LETTER WILL NOT COME AS AN EMBARRASMENT TO YOU,SINCE I
HAVE NOT HAD ANY BUSINESS PROPOSAL WITH YOU. ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW YOU
BEFORE BUT I BELIEVE THAT THIS BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY WILL BE THE BEST WAY
FOR US TO KNOW. AS A MATTER OF FACT,THIS ADDRESS WAS GIVEN TO ME BY ONE OF
MY BUSINESS FRIEND IN NIG^H^H^H ATLANTIS.THE PERSON HAVE STAYED IN YOUR COUNTRY FOR
QUITE A LONG TIME AND HE STRONGLY RECOMMENDED THAT YOUR PERSON/COMPANY IS
GOOD TO STRIKE A DEAL WITH US AND THAT IS WHY I AM WRITING YOU.
I AM THE CHEIF DIRECTOR OF THE CONTRACT AWARDING COMMITEE IN THE ATLANTIS
BIGEST ESTABLISHMENT-ATLANTIS NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION(NNPC). I AM IN
CHARGE OF FOREIGN BILLS AND PAYMENT IN THE CONTRACT DEPARTMENT.SO AS A
CHIEF DIRECTOR,I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DIVERT PAYMENT TO FOREIGN
ACCOUNTS. THERE WERE SOME CONTRACTS AWARDED TO SOME FOREIGN(TROY) FIRMS WHICH
WAS OVER-INVOCICED BY US (IN THE COMMITTEE).ALTHOUGH THE ORIGINAL FIRMS
THAT EXECUTED THOSE CONTRACT HAVE BEEN PAID THEIR FULL AMOUNT FOR THE
CONTRACTS DONE. THE BALANCE OF THE OVER - INVOICED CONTRACTS WHICH IS
ASB$37.300.000,00 (THIRTY SEVEN MILLION -THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND ATLANTIS SQUID BEAKS)
IS STILL LYING WITH THE CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA(CBA)PENDING WHEN WE CAN FIND A TRUSTED PARTNER WHO IS OF GOOD REPUTATION TO TRANSFER
THE FUND INTO HIS FORIEGN ACCOUNT,THIS IS BECUASE WE THE GOVERNMENT
WORKER'S DOES NOT OPARATE FOREIGN ACCOUNT ACCORDING TO OUR CODE OF
CONDUCT.
WE,THE OFFICIAL'S CONCERNED HAS DECIDED TO GIVE 30% OF THE FUND TO YOU FOR
YOUR ASSISTANCE,10% FOR EXPENSES THAT MAYBE INCURED BY ANY PARTY TO THE
TRANSFER OF THE FUND AND 60% FOR ME AND MY COLLEAGUES.
NOTE HEREBY THAT FOR NOW WE SINCERELY WANT YOUR HELP IN THE AREA OF
INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES IN YOUR COUNTRY SUCH AS IN RESEARCH, REAL ESTATE
AND PROPERTIES, COMPUTERS AND OTHER VIABLE VENTURE THAT WILL BRING REAL
RETURNS FOR OUR INVESTMENT WORTH. PLEASE, CAN YOU HELP US BY RECEIVING THE
FUNDS AS THE BENEFICIARY? IF YES,WE ARE HEREBY REQUESTING YOU TO SEND YOUR
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
They were looking around Cypress... what you expected them to get a donation from the Argentinian Tourism board for their research in the waters off Cypress? It's not like the Donation from the Cypress Tourism Board made them pick the location, they'd already picked the location, and got a donation from the locals.
This allowed Indonesia to be connected to mainland Asia, as well as Tasmania to Australia. I am uncertain as to the extent of the European Coast line, although it is likely certain that the English channel was dry land. There was much more land in the Bahamas. More and related info here. It is certain that some islands would disappear
And the Sahara was much more of a grassland with trees area, with plenty of people leaving rock drawings behind. So nomads with cities on the now submerged coastline is plausible as well.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
In Chinese mythology, there is a story of a great flood. The tale is very different from the Noah story though. Also given the nature of the story I suspect that this is due to a great flooding of the Yellow River rather related to the tales of a great flood in Asia Minor and Europe. But I can't remember any tales of a lost civilisation that disappeared beneath the waves. There are the mythological 5 emperors who were advanced in wisdom, technology, helped the Chinese people, etc. but they were very firmly based in China. I guess this means that Atlantis if it exists can't be around the Asian region then?
It has become painful to read slash-dot lately with so many people posting replys when they don't know the subject.
It was not just Plato who talked about Atlantis (like we talk about, say, Chicago), but also the Eygyptians and the Hindus in Vedic manuscripts that still exist!
Yes, there is a lot of BS when we discuss antideluvian civiliazations. And, yes, there are lies and mis-truths from modern entrenched elites such as the mafias that run the archiology and anthropology departments world wide who seem to be in-bed with world freemasonr. (please no flame, I admit that the previous statement is a little paranoid).
There is a lot of evidence that contridicts what is taught in schools and displayed in the vanity mueseums created by the entrenche elites (such as the Simthsonian and various schools of archiology).
Atlantis, however, is such a pervasive story that is found in a lot of differnt sources from antiquity that it is most likely a real place.
Here is a small list of other cities or civilizations that were considered to be made up:
Troy
Ninevah
Minoan civilizations
the Miceneans
Throughout history there are those who make up stories. And they do this because it gives them a certain power. But you must be able to sort through the cruft.
When you reduce human tradegdy such as the distruction of a civilization to an 'obvious parable' then you do the rest of us a disservice.
It amazes me that in the United States there are 7,000 year old archiological sites that are left ignored. Why? Because the harvard and etc mafias have their world view and don't want to rock it. There is a site in Amesbury MA that is reported to be 7000 years old. There is no marker, no books, no mueseum and no way to get at the artifacts that were found there.
Whenever anyone finds anything precolumbian in the US the Smithsonian burries it.
For years Mystery Hill in New Hampshire was stated as being a fraud. And then after it came out that a lot of metholithic ruins were astronomical observatories, Mystery Hill was examined and it was also found to be one!
There are spirals that are found on rocks in Celtic ruins, in Spain, in North Africa and also on ruins in the American Southwest! The Hopi say these are 18 year moon-cycle calanders for observing the cycles of the moon. And yet pick up a book on the Celts and the authors don't know what these are.
The Zuni's of the American Southwest have recently been shown to most likely have been decendant from Buddist pilgrims from Japan who arrived in New Mexico region about 1000 years ago! Do your children get taught this in school? No. And why not? Because the establishment hasn't gotten around to learning these things yet.
Open your mind and please do not reduce the tradegies of human history into 'obvious parable'.
If you don't know, don't say.
"to only fall back into ignorance before we finally moved into the modern age."
I've got news for ya, ignorance is still prevalent. Just look at the recent US elections!
Every time someone finds submerged (or even simply abandoned) ruins, he claims that he has found Atlantis. Completely disregarding the only sure thing from Homer's tales, that if it even existed, Atlantis was beyond the Pillars of Hercules.
You can argue all you want, that "beyond the Pillars of Hercules" means "far, far away", but that still doesn't change the fact, that Cyprus, Crete, Santorini are right in the middle of Hellenistic domain!!! Hence neither "beyond the Pillars of Hercules" nor "far, far away".
Abandoned or submerged ruins of ancient civilization? Sure. Atlantis? No fucking way!
Move along, nothing to see here.
Robert
Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
* Bushism is a form of theism that holds that the American people, under the great leadership of George W. Bush are the only to believe in the one true God. Not the ragheads!
(From your wiki link to monotheism.)
That explains why Plato began his story with "A long time ago in an ocean far, far away".
Putting moderation advice in your
He "may" have played backup on the song but Donnovan wrote and sang/talked the song.
Cause we all know that she made up the stories about the lemerians. Or did she really channel the spirits of the dead?
Maybe there are myths about really big floods, because there have been really big floods.
No, I'm not talking about the earth being 6000 years old and Mosasaurs being proof of evolution.
For example, the Great Flood myth that pop up around the Persian Gulf all stem from the fact that the Persian Gulf filled up only about 9000 years ago. Well it may have gone from marsh to it's current form sometimes in there. Likewise it's a stretch, but not too much of one to have some of those myths derive from the end of the most recent Ice Age and the rising of the water levels from that.
You are wrong! There are many references to Atlantis
So what kinda of naturally occuring geological activity can destroy the continent of Atlantis by putting it in 1.5Km of water while leaving the Acropolis and temple walls untouched? In the story the corupt, lawless, "utopian" Atlantis, is conqured by virtuous Athens. It is important to remember that Plato wrote the story of Atlantis to express his final abandonment of the utopian ideals of Republic.
Donovan is the one associated with Atlantis. Not Paul McCartney. Heck, the link above is to a "MAYBE THE BEATLES PLAYED ON THE SONG!" Except they didn't. It's a freakin' Donovan track.
Someone's google search for "shit, which popstars sing about Atlantis!" seriously let them down.
Wasn't there a legendary lost early American colony too?
Welcome to Slashfox.org
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Plato said that Atlantis existed West of the Pillars of Hercules (Generally accepted to be the Rock of Gibralta). Has Cyprus moved.
More to the point with the rise is sea level over the past 10,000 years we should expect to find signs of lost civilisation below current sea level.
Why do they always have to be Atlantis?
slashnik
I stopped reading exactly at 'Excavation campaigns'.
I apologize for wasting your time.
Aztecs were not a force until post the Christian era. They were a group who invaded Mexico from the North and may have even been somehow related to the Mongols (which is a big secret that a lot of 'native american' groups don't want you to know)
There are promising Archiological sites in Hondorus and Central America which might have been somehow related to Atlantis. But who knows.
People from the Azores claim that Atlantis was there.
We don't know yet.
There are no stupid questions. If nobody called BS everybody could say what they want and it would be taken as gospel!
Read the first part about the history of the Mediterranean Sea Note the reconnection of the black sea to the mediterranean circa 6000 BCE. It's entirely possible that there have been catclysmic extinctions of civilizations as the sea level in the Mediterranean, due to its narrow exits to the rest of the world, can tend to fluctuate more dramtically as those connections are made and broken.
All myths or legends have a seed of truth at their core. Problem is, even the ancients did not understand where Atlantis existed, or just how big a civilization it was. I think I have found the real Atlantis. How do I know?
I wrote the biography of the ancient Adam. He went by another name, which was "Atla" or Atlas.
He became emperor of the whole earth in his 500th year, and his people (all his children) named the single continent "Atlandus" in his honor. Theirs was an age where men lived to be a thousand years old, and Atlandus became a great and highly advanced civilization. But it all went south' soon after Adam died, and within a few hundred years was totally consumed in a great flood.
You might enjoy this fictional novel. Here is the link
http://writing.borngraphics.com/ADAMintro.htm
Regards,
Roger Born
writing.borngraphics.com
"These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others."
I discover Atlantis on a regular basis on a torrent site near me.
Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.
I was searching for Alantis once. I conducted the search by fitting an entire webcam in my anus. Never found it though. It was a combination of not enoguh light and too much poo in the way.
Lisbon, Portugal in 1755 was destroyed by a flood and 40000 people perished in one day.
It was one of reasons for the Enlightenment. It made people question their simple minded notions about God.
It caused a lot of people to become Atheist because they couldn't believe that a loving god would kill so many people all at once.
We don't need to look to myths that might have a base in fact to find devistating floods. We can look at the things that we know happened and we get events that are of a similar scale. Why do people ignore the real things that happen and fixate on those that are 'biblical'?
I wrote a long story on this this morning and posted it on The World Forum. It contains a bunch of links to articles on this elsewhere, as well as links to articles on all the other claims by researchers to have found Atlantis, placing it in southern Spain, off the coast of Cuba, at the edge of the Celtic Shelf off the south-west coast of England, under the South China Sea, near the Azores Islands, in the Mid-Atlantic in the island chain known as the Azores, west of the Straits of Gibraltar on a submerged mud shoal now known as Spartel Island, in Bolivia's Lake Titicaca, Ireland itself, and more.
Looking for political forums? Check out "The World Forum".
Until there is evidence of such a creature, then you cannot say they exist. said saider, conveniently ignoring the large and widespread cultural evidence.
blog.sam.liddicott.com
Atlantis is spelt "Numenor" in LOTR. Therein Aragorn is named as a descendant of the Numenorean (Atlantean) kings.
DNA just wants to be free...
I remember reading that there was an emperor of China who destroyed all of the old writings some time like 500 BC. I don't recal the details but the jist was that the I Ching was almost lost at this point. Consequently we don't have a written history of China before that point.
Burried in the Ugar basin, which the Han claim as part of China, there may be a lost civilization.
This region has been occupied by the Han for hundreds of years, so long that they consider it part of China. And when there are archiological finds there the Chinese have them covered up because the people they find are not Han, but Western (red heads and blonds).
interesting.
Can't wait till we get a less racist government in China so that they will do real archiology.
I would like that in the United States too where any archiology that doesn't further the freemason myth is burried into obscurity.
The Nature of the Universe (a gooey mass of old theories and new ideas)
Pondering the subjective experience of time flowing way to fucking fast, i've come to yet another latest view on what i think the universe is and how it behaves.
I recently checked out a lecture on cosmology at the University given by a leading cosmologist in his field who informed me that omega is not equal to 1.
Quick background: Once upon a time scientists discovered the red shift, which is essentially the Doppler effect applied to light and shows that every galaxy in the universe is moving away from us. From this they decided that the universe must be expanding, and of course, an expanding universe leads to the question of whether or not this universe will continue expanding forever or eventually shrink back to a "big crunch". I was currently under the impression that they'd figured out that the universe would eventually shrink down and that it had simply existed forever and would exist forever going through cycles of blowing up, forming stars and planets etc etc etc and then shrinking down again only to blow up again.
But now i've got some guy with a Ph.D. telling me that the latest theory is that the universe will actually continue expanding forever, and even crazier than that, it appears to be expanding at an ever increasing rate.
OK, that trips me the fuck out. If there is any gravity at all, how could it possibly continue expanding faster and faster without any external energy being added to the system??? And they explain this away by not only creating "cold dark matter" but also creating "dark energy" which apparently makes up 75% of the universe's mass and has a repulsive quality stronger than gravity's attractive property. Or something. Idk, i need to read more about this. One day. When i have more time (in the past).
But i want to take this experimental evidence that the universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate and play around with it.
Because there are other theories out there.
First of all there is the theory that maybe this whole time speeding up thing isn't a subjective effect but rather that time really is speeding up. And since i can't think of anyone with a Ph.D. from whom i've ripped this theory off and i came to it by my own thinking, i'm calling it my theory, until someone proves me wrong.
So like i can't even remember why i started thinking that time was speeding up, but look at the implications. If time is speeding up, that means it was once going a lot slower. Let's say that around 5,000 revolutions around the sun ago time was going really really slow. In fact, let's say the graph forms an asymptote and that at a certain point in time it was approaching infinity and essentially not moving at all. Now, let's assume that in the first "day" after this asymptote time was going so slow that it what we consider a second actually took a million of our years, or even....4.6 million if you want to entertain science and religion...
If this were true, "God" could have easily created the heavens and the earth in one day. Hell the guy had millions or billions of years to do it. We could even stretch this so far as to perfectly match it up with how long science thinks it took from the big bang until we had a solar system and a relatively cooled earth. And the next day would be going a little faster, not quite as much could have been done in that second "day", and so on and so forth throughout the creation story, eventually by the 6th day there were human beings already and eventually that exponential curve hit that special point where the timelessness felt in Eden started moving fast enough to record and these primeval beings felt the effects of aging and pain. I think this can explain quite nicely why life expectancy was so much higher back then too: Methuselah didn't live any longer than any of us, but it sure as hell felt like 900 some odd years to him!
From this I also thought about extrapolating the graph to try to predict the future. One extra
Pardon my asking, but aren't these sources (Exodus, Numbers) the very sources which the grandparent posting calls into doubt as original works of Moses (transmitted to later scribes or otherwise)?
I love Exodus 17:14:
Seems like in order for the remembrance of Amalek to really be blotted out from under heaven, we'd have to destroy a bunch of Bibles!
Here's Exodus 24:4.
Exodus 34:27 is one of the "Giving of the Ten Commandments" narratives.
Numbers 33:2 purports to describe the Exodus from Egypt itself, and, intra, gives details about the route taken from Egypt by Israel.
Fine, if you can accept a source as justification for its own validity. But I would think that modern scholarship would look for some external validation for these claims. For instance, can any record be found among contemporary Egyptian chronicles giving just these vectors for the departing Israelites, a record that preferably wasn't available in the time of King Josiah?
I treasure the Bible, personally (I also treasure other, much older stories such as Gilgamesh.) But my appreciation of the Bible isn't constrained by having to believe that everything in it is true in the style of modern history (lots of untruth there, too.)
History is written by winners.
While there are 'big flood' legends in many cultures, they are not really ubiquitous. There are many inter-related legends whose origins have been traced to the fertile crescent civilzations, and another big cluster of them that centers around a band running between Indonesia and southern China.
In other places, big flood legends are rare, or don't play a major part in the culture's religion and myth cycles. For example, there are few 'big flood' stories in the new world cultures, and they mostly involve minor mythical figures rather than the most major gods or heros. Northern Europe and Asia are also relatively light on such myths. For example, the Norse myths have the Midgard serpent living under the sea and causing occasional seacoast floods, but Ragnarok itself involves the Fimbul Winter instead of a big flood, and the creation myths involve a glacier and a cow among other less savory versions.
The classical Greeks are a flood legend oriented culture. Not only do they have the Atlantis myth via Plato, but there is the Hydra story in Hercules' 12 labors, where the Hydra is finally slain by pinning it with a big rock.(this turns out to be a myth explaining how a river with many constantly shifting mouths stops shifting when it meanders into a mass of hard stone that keeps it flowing in one channel, allowing a city to be founded. The Roman adaptation of this myth explains how the conditions needed for the founding of Rome were achieved and makes it very clear the Hydra legend is a flood story.)
The classical Greeks also had myths of a huge flood as the climactic part of the war between the Titans and the Greek gods, and their symbol for the primal chaos at the start of all things was an ever-turbulent sea shrouded in perpetual darkness. Their single oldest deity is thus a flood god. No wonder Plato's story found many listeners.
Who is John Cabal?
I found out while attending a wedding this weekend, that my cousin (professinal diver/underwater surveyor) is on this. That's, unfortunately, all that I know :(
Several hundred years ago, there was a lot more land on the planet, and less ocean. The increase in temperature caused by the Earth's slowly growing closer to the sun has caused the level of the oceans to rise, flooding a lot of cities that used to exist in what we now consider the ocean.
After a certain period of intense heat on the planet, when most of the planet will be covered in water, the planet will begin to move away from the sun over hundreds of years, until a period of tremendous cold is reached. At this point, there will be a tremendous amount of exposed land in what we now consider the ocean. Cities will again be constructed in these regions, and hundreds of years later, they will again be covered in water.
I know all of these facts are 100% true and correct, and I have undeniable proof: Two different people, who both claim they do not know each other, told me the same thing.
The Minoans were probably the real proto-Geeks.
"Pardon my asking, but aren't these sources (Exodus, Numbers) the very sources which the grandparent posting calls into doubt as original works of Moses (transmitted to later scribes or otherwise)?"
Now THAT is an example of begging the question.
I finally got a chance to use that phrase correctly. *tear runs down cheek*
This is a rehash of an earlier story.
A lot more information here though so I wouldn't call it a dupe. Just thought some people might be interested in the earlier discussion that took place.
I think everything like this needs to be taken with a grain of salt as to what its true value is. Even if this is the city Plato mentions (in passing) the stories are most likely out of proportion to the reality.
That's scary.
Right down the road from Athens, and Macon[ium]...
Whatever happened to the days when people commented on the topics they actually knew something about? I'm getting tired of the way slashdot editors throw on little bits of information that do not have any factual backing...sometimes those comments even hint at bias:-)
/.) and dragons.
For instance lets look at the comment: "The idea of an almost mythical lost civilization is common thread throughout all old human societies - much like, say, really big Floods."
This is just flat out wrong. Mythical lost civilizations are NOT found in EVERY old human society. In fact from just some basic google searches, it would appear that mythical lost civilizations aren't even in a majority of old human societies.
I remember one time hearing on the Discovery Channel that the most common myths were large floods (congratulations
I have no clue if that is true...but interesting none the less:-)
Atlantis was only mentioned in all of classical history once, and that was by Plato. No where else do we recieve mention of the so called city that sank under the waves. Troy on the other hand, and the Trojan War in general, is praised by all ancient Greeks as one of their "defining wars". So influencial is this war that later the Norse people would claim to be ancestors to the survivors of said war. In truth the only real reason historians and scholars don't believe the war happend is becaise they have a real problem with the idea that such a great war was fought over someones wife being kidnapped.
not a misspelling of 'skeptic'.
This kinda reminds me of all them elvis sightings but on a more creepy, and geeky level :-/
Ok ... ok ... I've got a new theory, floods suck, people live by rivers, rivers flood, therefore it sucks for people who live by rivers. Ok ... here's the real stretch of the imagination, before the advent of big a$$ pipe lines, local water utilities, and your water bill, I guess people had to live by the water. And we already know it sucks for people who live by water, I would wager that floods somehow were the biggest news story for slasdotters some 6000 years ago ... and there you have it, that's why everyone talks about a d*mn flood.
... now adays we know better than to blame it on the anger of some diety, but because our local weatherman is an idiot and somehow missed that b9g a$$ hurricane on his radar. Anyway, hear about the lost city of Miami?
Geez, we don't have to live by coast lines or rivers any longer, but a nice flood still kills alot of people and makes headlines,
An AC post worth +5!
Thanks,
Bill
bamph
What a shock, Cryofan posts something not totally retarded.
...
Of course, he can't spell "story", but hey
Then it's just pun hell for them ;p
(I *knew* I should have followed that link!)
This is not a sig
On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth
As I Cypriot I would like to say that we are very happy to learn that Atlantis was found off the coasts of our tiny island. For, like, the third time.
I'm going to wait for more significant proof this time. But hey, our tourist-based economy could use the surge.
there's actually quite a lot of evidence to support this theory, certainly there was a lot of ancient civilisation in the depression that is now the black sea, and there is even archealogical evidence of rapid flooding rather than a gradual filling.
all it needs is some form of proof that the natural "dam" that stood just west of where istanbul is today actually existed, if it did and if it was breached then computer modelling suggests that those living near the centre would have had to flee over 150 kilometres, and also that the flood waters would have advanced at a speed somewhere between a fast walk and a jog, a speed that very few except those on horseback would have been able to sustain for enough hours to avoid drowning.
http://slashdot.org/~GuyFawkes/journal
Pardon my asking, but aren't these sources (Exodus, Numbers) the very sources which the grandparent posting calls into doubt as original works of Moses (transmitted to later scribes or otherwise)?
No, my point was that the Pentateuch as it currently exists does not consist of the exact words Moses recorded.
The likelihood of Moses' original writings surviving to modern times are very small. In all probability, the original writings were copied, distributed, and even repeated orally to maintain the history of the people. I'm at work now and don't have access to my library, but a study of the language style does in fact suggest that the books were written much later than 1200 BC (quite possibly during the reign of King Josiah).
2 Chronicles 34 contains the biblical account of his life. Specifically, it details how he was renovating the Temple and discovered a Book of the Law tucked away. It is clear from the text that the Law was not known among the people, was rediscovered, and then copied and distributed.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with 16th and 17th century english, but it's significantly different from our modern english. It would be understandable that spelling, grammar, sentence structure, etc, were rewritten and modernized for distribution to the general populace. As an example, compare the language of the original King James bible to that of the modern "New Living" translation.
In short, I'm not disputing the assertion that the texts are more modern than Moses. I simply disagree that the texts were significantly modified or wholly fabricated to prop up the reign of Josiah.
"If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
One day 3 or 4 thousand years from now, a copy of The Lord of the Rings will be found, and the hunt for Middle Earth will begin...
Atlantis is supposed to be a highly advanced civilization. Global warming is predicted to expose a good third of Antarctica. Nostradamus said we'll have a thousand years of peace before another huge war. Note that almost nobody had heard of Atlantis when Plato spoke of it, yet as we get closer to the epicenter of the destruction of a civilization (and perhaps a continent) more and more people have heard of it. Could it be that Atlantis hasn't been found yet because it's 1000 years in the future?
On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth
Of course any relic found off the coast of the mediterranean will be picked up by the press and others as "Atlantis." The new agers (and sometimes some smart person you know) will rant and rave about time machines, solar lasers, etc. Its really sad to see so-called educated people buy into any conspiracy theory. The same was (and still is) true with the mythological Noah's ark. In the 70s there was no shortage of articles on how some relic found somewhere was the "true ark" and no shortage of clergy men to claim it is real. Now the "ark" supposedly is on top of some mountain somewhere.
These are the fruits of an anti-intellectual culture. Of a culture with a weak media. Of a culture that is religious and anti-skeptic.
This all reminds me of the intro to Sagan's 'Demon Haunted World' where he tells a cabbie he's a scientist and the cabbie's questions are all related to press-driven pseudoscience like Uri Geller, UFOs, time machines, etc. IIRC, Sagan had nothing to say as he didn't know where to start with someone so full of disinformation. This is a pretty good parable for a good part of the the world. Where to even begin when Nostradamus is ranked up there with Einstein and people think Archaeologists are after Atlantian magic machines while the press feeds them the same credulous crap everyday?
skepDIC.com, along with most sites claiming to be the mouthpiece for true reason and sober skepticism is as ideological as anyone. for example, their typical treatment of UFO's and related phenomena... http://skepdic.com/ufos_ets.html they claim that testimony of the existence of ETI and ET craft are the product of "the willingness to trust incompetent men telling fantastic stories". In truth, these "incompetent men" include NASA astronauts, radar technicians, Aviators, physicists, men & women in the intelligence community (both here in the US and abroad), 5 star generals and even the former chief of Englands Ministry of Defense. This is not the end of the sites misinformation and error or those who claim firsthand experience with ET tech and the secrecy that surrounds it. I do not claim this testimony, regardless of it's credibility, to be counted or confused as empirical evidence.
These dates are incorrect.
Archbishop James Usher (1580-1656) published Annales Vertis et Novi Testamenti in 1654, which suggested that the Heaven and the Earth were created in 4004 BC. One of his aides too the calculation further, and was able to announce triumphantly that the Earth was created on Sunday the 21st of October, 4004 BC, at exactly 9:00AM, because God liked to get work done early in the morning while he was feeling fresh.
This too as incorrect. By almost a quarter of an hour.
So- close, dear AC, but no cigar. (:
(shamlessly lifted material)
No heaven can heaven be, if my horse isn't there to welcome me.
but i thought the bible was infallible, because god is infallible, therefore if the bible is fallible wouldn't that make god fallible. so therefore couldn't it be stated that moses never existed, along with the rest of the cast of the most widly distributed story in the history of the world (i may be wrong). therefore if it is said that moses said these words, and you yourself just stated that they could be exajurated then wouldn't it make the work in whole err? afterall to err is human. and that is my thesis why the bible was written by a few guys instead of god. otherwise lets stone all the children that missbehave and go back to the "moral" filled days of 1 ad. i believe in god just selectivly, i believe in prophets being leaders (freedom fighters or terrorists, whicheve you happen to subscribe too) not "sons of god". i belive that jesus was a martyr nothing more and nothing less. woooh. go god go.
Recommended reading
If modern translations of the bible are so accurate, then why is the name of the Christian Messiah transliterated so inaccurately? Jesus as opposed to "Joshua" or even more poperly "Yeshua". Heck, even the fact that Messiah is not transliterated "the anointed one". Also note that Christ and Christos is Greek for Messiah.
These transliterations are telling. Jesus must be distinct from the other prophets and "anointed ones" of the bible, so that he can be deified. Most Christians are not aware that there are other Christs mentioned in the bible simply because of the inaccurate "modern" translations.
The other one is a rock formation on the southern greek coast. And if you use those Pillars, and accept that Plato got the Dimensions wrong by a factor of 10 (easy to do in a translation from egyptian), it matches up almost exactly with the Minoan Civilization on Crete, which was destroyed when the Volcano at Thera erupted about 1700 BC.
Ebla was for decades only a 'mythic' civilisation to archaeologists until they unearthed it in Syria starting with the sign at the city's entrance. Perhaps the Atlantis legend is not credible but that doesn't mean it didn't exist.
The thing is, everyone knows the Bible was written by men. A Christian believes that the writers were inspired by God, that the message is life to those who hear it, and that it is the key to knowing and having a relationship with God.
I encourage you to ignore all of the social issues, controversies, and right-wing chatter about the bible, and just read it with an open mind. Start with the book of 1st John, and if you like that then read the Gospel of John.
"If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
maiden
:D
Note definition 1.b. A virgin.
So what was your point again?
It took what 40 days to flood the entire world. I'm not impressed considering nice size hurricanes can flood the coast of florida and it's surrounding islands in a few hours. So, too make a long story short, floods are nothing new to humanity, we still ahve them all the time. I'm sure millenias ago a flood were an even greater event, as most civilizations lived along coasts and river banks out neccessity. You don't need the bible to extrapolate common sense civilizations have been being devoured by water since forever, and even more so, when humanity was a bit more primitive in it's neccessity to live by water.
I highly doubt that the biblical account of a great flood isn't more than the conglomeration of many many many floods that early civilizations would have faced on a periodic bases. Kind of like, "hear about the great san francisco earthquake of 1915." Of course, if San fran was the size of an ancient city, it would have been quite easy to obliterate during that earthquake, just as rather "regular" flooding probably destroyed ancient cities.
Nothing new under sun, if you ask me.
Indian mythology also speaks of a city that sank into the Ocean - Dwaraka. Recent archaeological digs off the coast of Gujrat in India have found remains of what could be Dwaraka. Maybe there is a reason for all these flood stories and submerged cities.. a global warming that occured in the past and flooded coastal cities?
I'm curious as to how a city with no walls can even have the concept of "indoors", let alone "indoor plumbing".
...someone needs to go to the patent authorities and claim ownership on the lost city of Atlantis so that it can stop being discovered every weekend and advertised to hopeful geeks like us...*sigh*
After reading the headline, I thought the Slashdot editors were going to own up to posting a dupe.
Well, at least we can look forward to "Atlantis Found. Again. Again."
-ch
Come on, what about Maracaibo? I can't seem to find any theories on the internet claiming Lago de Maracaibo as the lccation of the lost city. Doesn't the geography and location make a better fit?
.... find the same stone, look for organic matter in the same geological stratum, date that.
Bingo.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Indeed - even in Halo, there's an awful lot of Flood. And while there's no Ark of the Covenant, there's a shit-ton of Covenant flooding the place too.
But consider how limited the finding is: there was a city in about the right place that seemed to have been sacked at about the right time (among other occassions). It is reasonable to suspect that this actual city is somehow connected to the legend we know from Homer. So there seems to be some grains of history in the Iliad, we don't know how big and frequent those grains are, but we do know that there is a lot of myth in there, too.
But the greater lesson of Troy is that the nay-sayers about Atlantis might be wrong. The point is taken. I might be wrong. The knowledge that I could conceivably be wrong doesn't prevent me from holding an opinion.
Parable or not Some have pointed out that Plato's character who recites the Atlantis story says that he heard this as an ancient Egyptian story. Plato was not the only person writing back then, and there is no other indication of this story (or of its story teller) for a very long time. The form of the story fits so tightly to Plato's political and metaphysical views, that either Plato made it entirely or dramatically adapted it for his purposes.While ancients also wrote about it, it really appears that they picked up the story from Plato and not from any sources that pre-date Plato, execpt that they repeat Plato's claim of an ancient Egyptian origin. And it was only the the 19th century that serious speculation began.
A deluge of flood stories There is no dispute that there are loads of ancient flood stories. There is also no doubht that there were lots of ancient floods. We don't know the scale of these. A flood that destroys a few villages will seem to the survivers to have engulfed the whole world. It seems to me that even small floods can generate big stories, and that those floods may have been much more recent.The Black Sea flood hypothesis is extremely interesting. If, indeed, the Black Sea did fill up rapidly, it certainly would have generated big flood stories for the generations that followed. But whether it is those or other floods that serve as the origin of the flood stories we know today is hard to determine.
If we treat Atlantis as a flood story, than it probably has the same kind of factual basis as many other flood stories: We'll never no location or scale of the floods, but there probably were lots of floods.
I've always thought of the Atlantis story is more than a flood story or earthquake story. Maybe I've just read too much Plato. If we really do take it to be about a lost civilization on some lost island, then I continue to bet on it being a myth.
On the otherhand, if we take it to be that some populated region was destroyed by earthquake or flood, then it almost certainly happened. But it is fruitless to try to tie a particular story to one of the many such events.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
I found a much easier way to find Atlantis. Right from your PC!
http://www.google.com/
Hey, if it can find nude pictures of George W. Bush, it can find ANYTHING!
You have made the most blind and rabid fundamentalists I know look like men of logic and reason, and the most ignorant rednecks I know look like Yale graduates. Congratulations.
It is far easier to come up with some geological theories that explain the shape. For instance, the side of the hill appears to have slipped which would account for material falling to form the "wall" at the base of the hill.
When a submersible brings back bricks and man-hewn stones I'll belive.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I love Exodus 17:14:
Then the LORD said to Moses, 'Write this as a reminder in a book and recite it in the hearing of Joshua: I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
Actually there are archaeological ruins that point to the Great Flood.
Some deposits in the bottom of the black sea discover fossils of animals that only lived in non-sea water. This points to a huge lake existing many meters below sea-level, in a time where water was very scarse. At a point, the water level increased, and the sea flooded this zone. (Human bones which confirm this have been found)
Later, the tale of the great flood was written in an ancient babylonian text called the Epic of Gilgamesh. When the jews were captured by Babylon, they learned this account, and incorporated it into the book of Genesis.
Here's a National Geographic article about it. There's a Discovery channel brief, too.
Frankly, both tales, Atlantis and the Great Flood, look very interesting to me, from an archaeological point of view.
I love Exodus 17:14:
Then the LORD said to Moses, 'Write this as a reminder in a book and recite it in the hearing of Joshua: I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
The Hebrew word for "remembrance" is zikaron ; it connotates a participation in an event of the past rather than simply a mental recollection of that event.
When material is written by a culture, understanding of the language of the culture, rather than simply reading translations, leads to greater understanding of the intention of the writer.
In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
The answer is clearly 'Ever since the Republican's took power'.
So, I've often wondered... Is this more of a troll or a flamebait?
Did Plato describe the dimensions and location of the cave?
Mea culpa. I had heard that about Hebrew culture: participating in the Passover or Seder meal, for example, is much more than just remembering that there was an original one to begin with: it's a level of complete participation in the event that in a real sense, carries you back to that original moment. Correct? (It is similarly said in Anglican tradition at least that Communion/Eucharist/Lord's Supper observances also have this more-than-remembering tie-back to the Last Supper of Christ.)
Our young Episcopal Priest told us of the latter in order to instruct us about the former, namely, the special place a particapatory remembrance has in ancient culture. So he might have been making a leap that isn't backed up in scholarship (I think he was backed up, he is a scholastic type), but it's not a bad analogy.
Correct me/Expound? And what has this to do with midrash?
but it makes for better reading, after all the Illyad was epic "fiction". Plus, who the hell wants to hear about a war that's fought over oil, that's so passe. At that, You'd sell more copies, get more women interested, and have better opening day at the box office with a broader audience if you added a love story to the war, after all, what woman wouldn't want have a war fought over her ala Helen. Homer knew he'd make millions if he added the love story ... and Warner Bros. said they couldn't get
Brad to play Achilles if Homer didn't add the love bit, being as the real Achilles was dead and couldn't play himself.
but i thought the bible was infallible, because god is infallible, therefore if the bible is fallible wouldn't that make god fallible.
This is a heresy that is generally only seen in fundamentalist sects and cults common in America. Orthodox/Catholic christians don't equate the bible with God, that's idolatry.
And yeah, I am a damned Papist. What of it?
And I can't even find 404...
She bought a set of children's encyclopedias that we could read when we were done with our regular assignments (she held that out as a reward). Those probably inspired two things. One, from fourth grade on, I read all the time, anything I could. Second, science and history became very interesting. I still remember reading in those encyclopedias about Roman Marching camps and their importance to Roman military dominance.
Mr. Markovich was my ninth grade Social Studies teacher. He would stage a current affairs game each week in class, which I did very well in because I read everything (newspapers, Time, US News and World Report) and watched the nightly news when I could. He got me advanced materials that were designed to make you question what you had been taught and make up your own mind. I still remember being a little doubtful about sailing across the Atlantic in leather boats...
So, quick answer is that I remember this because I had some very good teachers that challenged me and made me curious to learn more on my own. Thank God for them.
How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?
Let's put the global flood story to Occam's Razor test. Ok, it rains for 40 days the world floods, some dude builds an arch, that one minute he takes the animal takes 1 pair of each, but takes 7 pairs of other animals puts them on the titanic and rids around for a bit. And incestuously repopulates the whole world. Even growing up as a christian I pretty much was like you've got to be kidding, I don't need proof, common sense tells me there has to be a much simpler explaination.
... Let's see the earliest civilizations lived by what- you guessed it rivers and coasts. Now, there is a common denominator among these early civilizations, Sumerians, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, etc ... etc ... floods, you know, why because if you lived in one of these societies floods were quite devestating. You couldn't move away from the water because you lack the technology irrigate large tracts of inland areas. So, you had to deal with them, so consequently your mythology and or religion bears tales of "Great Floods". Guess, what, Great floods even happen today, I believe half of haiti was underwater a couple of months ago, now adays, we have no need to build a big ark and take animals 2 by 2 or 7 by 2 depending on which version because we will have more people survive floods now adays. Back then a minor flood could easily eradicate a coastal or rivered city.
... in short the concept of some global flood seems kind of absurd, a more simple explaination, is in the environment of limited coastal and river societies ... floods were devestating and literally could easily destroy their whole world.
Let's see, religion is born out of humanities need to understand it's surroundings. Lightening strikes god was pissed. Land floods god was pissed. Your bread doesn't rise, well, someone forget to put yeast in it
Notice other peoples who don't live by rivers or coasts their folklore, religion, mythology involves natural disasters that happen in their environment. As someone pointed out Norse mythology surrounds 'great winters" of destruction, hawain mythology volcanoes, etc
U don't need proof of this or even need to accept this as faith, it's common sense, but it's also highly ambitious to think the entire of earth was covered in water and some dude with an arc saved all the earths animals. It's more likely a local hero, saved the village live stock, from a localized flood, and somewhere along the way fact turned, to legend, which turned to mythology, which turned to religious dogma.
When you don't have planes that can travel supersonic speeds far far away could be just around the corner.
... etc ...
...
You forget the world was alot smaller back then, and time for travel was alot different. NO steam, no combustion engines, no turbines, etc
So, who's to say what far away meant to the greeks. Or far away from where? Far away from Athens or far away from Sparta, etc
that some 4000 years seperates ancient egyptians and Incans, and some 2000 years after Plato?
One of the major supports for the validity of the bible is it's consistency.
Most people recognize the reverse validity test. Phrases like "your lie will find you out" suggest that making false claims will get you caught, only because you can't be consistent.
Another simple support for the validity of the bible is multiple writers (of original transcripts.) We see "The bible" as one source now, but it's really just a collection of many books written by different people. Hey, maybe there was a designer after all.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
If only you believed in capitalization, too.
City walls numbskull, buildings could still have walls, otherwize how would you know it was a city?
That which is done from love exists beyond good and evil
For those not paying attention, the lost city of Atlantis is in the Pegasus Galaxy...
[o]_O
The fools who claim these cities are Atlantis clearly lack the objectivity to look at the larger picture - ancient cities both on land, and under the ocean, many of which have similarities.
Historians claim that the first civilizations began to crop up 5000 years ago in Egypt and Africa. Clearly they didn't crop up underwater, so it is possible that civilization is actually much older than previously thought.
That begs the question - these cities were obviously built when the water levels were lower... say, due to the fact that there was more ice in the world? Like an ice age, or during the trailing end when water levels rose all over the world.
Some claim the Mediterranean was once a massive basin. A number of cities have been found in the Med that people claim are Atlantis, but at the very least they are cities currently unresearched, and very old, since it would take thousands of years for water levels to rise up and consume them. Look to Venice for example - Venice is sinking, parts of buildings have been abandoned because the water level consistently floods them now. If a city existed and the water rose up to it's shores, storms and whatnot would cause flooding and make the city unliveable. It seems logical that those peoples would migrate up to higher ground, and clearly comparing ancient cities below the water versus ancient cities above water, the ones above water are on higher ground.
So here is a thought - what if civilization is much older than we all think? What if these cities are from the first civilizations that are much older than we know, or at least from civilizations older than any that ever cropped up above ground?
If there was a large shared influence in city layout, and five concentric circles was a popular design (Just one thought, if an army was defending a city with five rings, surrounded each with a wall, much like Minas Tirith, it would present a formidable challenge for invaders, so it may have been a popular design for that purpose.) then we would have a lot of cities that all look like "Atlantis".
Figuring out what specific city was Atlantis would be very difficult, it would require underwater excavation. Taking a sonar picture and seeing a hill surrounded by a wall is pure folly - there are a lot of cities built on hills and surrounded by walls in our world, nobody claims they are Atlantis. The design is effective for defense of a city, not only Atlantis had such a layout.
So I am skeptical of anyone who takes a picture and summarily declares it to be the greatest coincidence of all time, since that plainly ignores the more obvious conclusion that these are cities buried under water, and belong to civilizations much older than we know.
Until we begin doing archaeological digs, and start finding writing or pottery or anything to hint at who lived in these citites, I will believe no news report that mentions the word "Atlantis". It remains lost until cooler heads prevail, and proper scientific research is conducted.
The way I understood it, God didn't write the Bible directly but rather sent messengers (angels) down to preach to the prophets who then immortalized the words of the messengers in the form of the books of the Bible. The prophets were human and thus fallible and so maybe (if we're going to buy into the whole "word of God" thing) that was the point of error. In this scenario, it could still be said that God did not err, but the human scribes did.
I tried to dial REALITY once and I was informed that it had been disconnected.
"A Christian believes that the writers were inspired by God, that the message is life to those who hear it, and that it is the key to knowing and having a relationship with God."
:)
Well, maybe a "reasonable" Christian-but faith and reason don't always go together. Growing up going to church (Catholic) I recall the bible being the "word of God". Not the word of God according to men (even though that is what it is in reality....) For better or worse, I have mostly outgrown that particular superstition, although technically I am still Catholic
How about the beautiful princess that was kidnapped by an alien civilization and then rescued by a brave astronaut ?
There are so many stories about this, they can't possibly all have been made up !
nor do I have a map of the mediterranian handy.
;-)
But I do severely doubt that you will easily find anything 1 mile below sea-level there - unless you are a super-intelligent neutrino, that is
Well, their language is encrypted, how much more geeky does it get... perhaps we should run it through distributed.net?
> They had indoor plumbing, flush toilets, buildings up to five stories high.
Ah, but I bet they did not have telephone sanitizers!
If you have to use God, you've lost the argument.
' I am a Christian, believing Jesus was the Son of God, and that he died for my sins'
What is God? is he related to santa and the tooth fairy, coes my mumma told me that it was a fib a long time ago. Guess your mumma didn't have the heart to tell you, or maybe you just one Believe.
Harsh, well I could get a lot worse, thanks to you fucking stupid (or maybe cunning) Sons of Jews the whole worlds a fucking mess. Ditch your crazy ideas that died before they were created, pop down the doctors and get some good and i mean god loving good anti-psycotics to sort your delusions out. Leave me alone to be a fucking commie hippy, smoking drugs and worshiping the moon god that really did stop me from falling down a ditch.
There, though I'd reply to your message in the same tone it was written, freek.
But have you read the Bible from cover to cover? I challenge you to do so. Then, let me know whether you still think that it's written by "a few guys" or truly inspired by God.
And remember, the Bible has told us many things we now consider truth long before science proved them.
Examples include:
The earth is round--Isaiah 40:12
The earth rotates upon its axis--Job 38:13-14
The atmosphere has weight--Job 28:25
The blood sustains life--Leviticus 17:11
The stars travel in certain paths--Judges 5:20
Moisture in the atmosphere goes through a cycle of evaporation and condensation--Psalms 135:7
The exitence of the Hittites(some doubted their existence until 1906 when Hugo Winkler proved it.)--Exodus 33:2; Deuteronomy 7:1, 20:17;Joshua 3:10 and 24:11.
Funny how God always ends up being right.
But, this one goes to 11.
The culture of Minoan Crete is fascinating, and that is why so much attention has been centered on Santorini (now known as the island of Thera), just a bit northeast of Crete. The extensive archeological diggings there have revealed a city of incomparable wealth and technology. They had routine electroplating (with wet-cell batteries as a power source), sophisticated plumbing, metal-working that was centuries in advance of their time, and much else, besides. For a good popular account, check out Charles Pellegrino's "Unearthing Atlantis."
The only part of the single remaining extant ancient description of Atlantis (written down by Plato) that Santorini had NOT matched was the story of the central island of Atlantis having disappeared, sinking beneath the sea. It is possible the researchers east of Cyprus have discovered the island that Plato wrote about. The researchers who have championed Santorini thought it is a plausible candidate despite that. When it blew up, more than two thirds of it disappeared, and what was once a round island was turned into a crescent moon shape.
It should be noted that while we have vague references to lost works about Atlantis, they are well and truly lost. Even Plato, the most ancient source on the subject we have, was writing almost 1,000 years after the disaster.
Make a man a fire, and he's warm for a day. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Anyone ever see this? Pyramid structure at Yonagun.
Did I read correctly - 1.5km below sea level?!? how did it get sunk so far without disturbing those man-made walls? it must have been an incredibly gentle and gradual catastrophe. Has anyone even proposed some geological process by which an island could "sink", intact, to a depth of 1.5km? Rapid continental drift - vertically?
Unfortunately ... oh, I'm too depressed to even finish this joke!
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
Ok, as an archaeologist I cringe to be replying to this at all but I just have to say it. The Minoan civilization did not spread over vast amounts of territory. When Thera blew, yes, it was covered in some ash and destruction levels on the coast do indicate that there were probably a few earthquakes and tsunamis. But there is plenty of evidence that the Minoans did not flee everywhere but established more cities, Knossos for example, to the west of the island which was largely undamaged. And to say that all of those cultures you mentioned were all descended from the Minoans may have a small grain of truth in it, but I think you're getting carried away. If you want to read more, I suggest you go to JSTOR and read some real stuff that isn't quite so sensationalized. They are an amazing culture but they are amazing because of what we do know about them through years of careful excavation, not vague theories.
First, they say it's 1500km- over 4500 feet- under water. The sea level drop in the last ice age was maybe 100m. And the floor of the Mediterranean was dry at one point, but that was seven million years ago. Nor is it clear what kind of geological subsiding could drop a city a mile and a half, yet preserve the walls.
It's 1.5km., about 1 mile deep.
But you are right, this would require either a geological subsidence many times faster than we have ever seen, or a miraculous mile high landslide that preserved the city intact. The latter would be just as unlikely underwater as above ground.
I think this belongs in the "face on Mars" category.
it even has the same wise people memes that Atlantis has.
crappy link to shambala stuff here...
The surviving Minoans clearly were scattered across the world...the Phoenecians, the Carthaginians, and many other ancient Semitic cultures (the Sephardic Jews and the Arabs) may all be descended from them. So were the Pelasgians. And perhaps the Philistines of the Biblical era.
The rest of your post is sound, but this part is inaccurate.
It is possible that the Phoenicians descended from Minoans, or at least took some technology/culture from the remnants that escaped/survived the eruption. But, the Carthaginians are descendants of the Phoenicians. The former are actually colonies of the latter on the South North African and Iberian coasts.
As for Jews and Arabs, they could not have descended from Minoans. The Arab hinterland is Arabia, far to the south east. The Sephardic Jews are descendants of Jews from Spain who were expelled. Nothing to do with Minoans.
The Philistines probably originated from the Sea People, the Peleset branch mentioned in Egyptian Papyrii. Others in the super-group are Shardana (Sardinians?), Shekelesh (Sicilians?), Lukka (Lycians?), Ekwesh (Achaean?), Teresh (Etruscans?), Tjekker, Weshesh, Meshwesh, and Danuna. They are mentioned in two waves, around 1220 B.C, and 1186 BC, which is several centuries late for the Thera eruption.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
I realize that some of the stupid moderators like this sort of cynicism, but it's not the least bit true.
Most of those Evangelicals have read where Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman caught in adultery (read your Bible, it's in the Gospels), and would behave likewise.
Please explain why you don't deserve -1, Flamebait?
The idea of dragons is very widespread around the world. But I have difficulty about thinking of flying fire breathing lizards as an obvious choice for a mythic creature. Anyone know of any supposed source for the idea ?
Bitter and proud of it.
Why couldn't she be the other kind of mermaid? The one with the fish part at the top, and the lady part at the bottom!
AMEN!
Specifically, it details how he was renovating the Temple and discovered a Book of the Law tucked away. It is clear from the text that the Law was not known among the people, was rediscovered, and then copied and distributed.
And how do we know that this book, miracoulsy found, was not forged to give autority to the King.
PENAROL: Seras eterno como el tiempo y floreceras en cada primavera.
LOST LANDS/LOST RACE
Thomas D. Clareson ["Toward a History of Science Fiction"] suggests that the British writers, obsessed with the side-effects of Empire, specialized in the so-called "Lost Lands" and "Lost Race" subgenres. These reflect curiosity about archaeology, exploration, geology, and paleontology. Such tales may reflect a desire for the neo-primitive, as an escape from the pressures of modern industrial society. H. Rider Haggard was the first major author in this area, and perhaps introduced the notion to literature. Edgar Rice Burroughs used it again and again, with great success.
These stories typically presume that, although most of the Earth has been explored, there still remain some isolated remnants of an earlier culture such as Atlantis, Lemuria, or Mu. As exploration diminished the plausibility of such pockets of the past, lost worlds retreated to Africa, Australia, South America, central Asia, Pacific islands, the Arctic, the Antarctic, and finally more and more often under the sea or beneath the Earth's surface.
Before this, "travel tales" such as "The Travels of Sir John Mandeville" (1366), Thomas More's "Utopia" (1516), and Jonathan Swift's "Gulliver's Travels" (1726) appealed to a public well-aware that much of the globe was "terra incognita."
See hotlink (loads slowly because 455 Kilobytes of text) for annotated list of 40 Major works on these Lost Lands/Lost Races themes, and a listing of 36 imaginary lands.
Professor Jonathan Vos Post
http://www.skepticfiles.org/evolut/desertme.htm
[Chumakov's] research had included the study of 15 holes drilled into the bottom of the Nile River just south of the Aswan High Dam.... Soviet engineers were helping build the new dam, and the holes were sunk to determine the depths to bedrock and the nature of the sediment on top of it. This revealed that under the relatively flat bottom of the present river the bedrock forms a canyon some 290 meters deep, now filled with sediment. The lowest part is a narrow gorge with almost vertical walls. Most remarkable, Chumakov found, is the nature of the sediment in the bottom 150 meters of this canyon. It proved to be filled with oceanic fossils of the Pliocene.
In other words this canyon 1200 kilometers (750 miles) up the Nile, was once flooded by a sudden incursion of the sea some 5.5 million years ago. The most likely explanation, Chumakov believed, was that the canyon was carved when the Nile flowed into a Mediterranean Sea 1000 to 1500 meters lower than today. Then rapid filling of the sea sent salt water up the canyon, and only when the latter silted up higher than the existing sea level did the accumulating fossils change to fresh water forms. [Walter Sullivan, _Continents In Motion_, pp. 166-167, American Institute of Physics, New York, 1991.]
In the Nile Delta, boreholes more than 300 meters deep were not able to reach the bottom of the old Nile canyon. Chumakov estimated that the depth of the incision there might reach 1,500 meters, and he visualized a deeply buried estuary under the sands and silts of the modern Nile Delta. Chumakov was right; a narrow 2,500-meter-deep canyon under Cairo was recently discovered during geophysical explorations for petroleum in Egypt.
Note that 2,500 meters is 8,200 feet. This is much deeper than Hell's Canyon of Idaho and Oregon, the deepest in the world today. If the Med flooded 10,000 years ago, the Canyon would not have silted up yet.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Two things worth mentioning:
1. New Atlantis theories almost always ignore Plato's statement that Atlantis was supposed to have been beyond the Pillars of Hercules, in other words out in the Atlantic somewhere, not in the Mediterranean. People like to propose places near the Greecian mainland -- Thera, Santorini, Crete... but if Atlantis existed, none of these places are in the right area.
2. Many people have the notion that Plato personally visited Atlantis and later wrote about it. Actually the story was in his family for many years before he wrote it down. It is believed that an uncle related the story to him. The original information came from a more distant relative, an Athenian named Solon, who heard the story during his own visit to Egypt. The only connection between the Atlantis story and Greece is Plato's family.
You're not alone by a long shot.
who voted for him? atheists? Did this jesus dude say anything to support death penalty?
fuck.. I am replying to a troll
Nonsense! Everyone knows the real Atlantis is right here in Reno.
-- Jimtown Kelly
A great deal of the Aegean Sea is rife with .
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
fault lines, and volcanoes
A mostly submerged volcano forming an Atoll on
the surface would submerge with a earthquake
of major magnitude, and underwater magma
entombing the evidence for all time
As for lack of records of Atlantis with other
civilizations, maybe they made the choice of
limiting their contact with the outside world
like some isolationist policies
There are a great number of islands in the
Aegean, and some smaller ones do not even show
up on most modern maps
Just like the Bahamas has several thousand
islands and most ppl do not even know it
Only in modern day did they dive and find
some of the main pillars to the lighthouse
at alexandria in fairly shallow water
The ocean is a BIG and unforgiven place
Keep in mind how long it took to find the titanic
and we basically knew where it was located
Scientifically it is hammered into our brains to
disbelieve by default til evidence proves
otherwise . I do not say it is fact, I say
it is greatly probably
I think one or more major finds will come pass
of cities or civilizations that will amaze many
around the world
Underwater and high in the mountains in countries
that are 3rd world and remote
I look forard to it greatly
Peace,
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Most of those Evangelicals have read where Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman caught in adultery (read your Bible, it's in the Gospels), and would behave likewise.
Right. Just like they obey his commands not to judge others, and to respond to offenders by turning the other cheek.
sudo ergo sum
Read "Stel Pavlou - Decypher" about atlantis, religion, and why we have it (it's not a religous book, it's a book about cracking codes)
Move sig!
Intersting theory, perhaps you should make a movie based on this premis.
You have 5 Moderator Points! Use 'em or lose 'em! They will expire before any good stories are posted.
Recommended reading:
Conservative, liberal, or Christian?
The Mediterranean went dry, then flooded. Twice.
How poetic it would have been if the re-filling of the Mediterranean basin had swamped the city of Atlantis. And while we're at it, let's have this geologic event be the genesis of the story of Noah's Ark.
But, Wikipedia says "About 5.4 million years ago at the start of the Pliocene period the barrier at the Strait of Gibraltar broke, premanently reflooding the basin." That's too long ago.
If it had been 20,000 years, there'd be a chance this flood submerged Atlantis. Darn. Would have been a good story.
Tell me again, who knew Mary was a virgin, and how did they know?
It's a shame some bishop didn't announce that anyone who votes for any of the candidates would be automatically excommunicating themselves one way or another, to show how stupid the whole idea was. I'm fairly certain that there wasn't a single candidate on most states' ballots whose positions were fully in line with church doctrine.
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
"The blood sustains life--Leviticus 17:11"
I'd put good money that a LONG time before L. 17:11 was written someone saw someone else bleed to death and put 1+1 togeather.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Yup...that's it.. Depends on what you are talking about with reference to 'midrash'
In America today you can murder land for private profit. You can leave the corpse for all to see, and nobody calls the c
And does it go good on hot dogs?
I can tell that you have won out over reality. Actually, not a lot of people did know that the blood sustained life. Hence the whole leech idea. A lot of people had to die before they realized that we might actually need this stuff.
But, this one goes to 11.
This sounds a whole hell of a lot like those Golden Tablets that J. Smith found, then which mysteriously disappeared after he'd translated them with the help of some magical golden spectacles (which also disappeared).
What a long, strange trip it's been.
Boom, boom!
What a long, strange trip it's been.
> How can 59,054,087 people be so STUPID? God help us all.
There is no god. So we're shit out of luck.
What a long, strange trip it's been.