Slashdot Mirror
Using GPS to Track Teens
jmoloug1 writes An article at CBSNews that describes a new service available to parents. It uses cell phone GPS to track how fast the teens are driving and then automatically sends an alert back to the parents when a certain limit has been exceeded. Bad idea for stupid parents who are going to be outwitted by their kids just turning off the phones? Best of all, it's endorsed by our former chief of military ops in Iraq!"
SMS - 1:11:05: Jacob is driving 110mph
SMS - 1:11:18: Jacob is driving 120mph
SMS - 1:11:25: Jacob is driving 140mph
SMS - 1:11:29: Jacob is driving 180mph
SMS - 1:11:32: Jacob is driving 220mph
SMS - 1:11:33: Jacob is driving 0mph
And, I should care... why? Am I supposed to load up my side by side and start booby trapping the hallways to stop the government enforcers or something? Hellloooo, cluestick: who fucking cares? Parents get to keep tabs on their kids, big news. Whoopdy doo. How is this YRO?
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
that will get the hair on the back of your folks neck up! :P
moo
just stick dog collars on our kids and be done with it.
G SM-dog-collar/dog-1.html
http://www.environmental-studies.de/products/GPS-
Put your phone on a plane and send it fasttrack two states over, and get someone to send it back.
"I was speeding, dad? 1800mph you say, in the saturn?"
Don't know what it is like elsewhere, but here in the UK: - a teen turn off their mobile phone?? I think not :-)
Bad idea for stupid parents who are going to be outwitted by their kids just turning off the phones? See, this would work, but what teen is going to turn off their phone? I mean, i'm 16 and I have it 24 hours a day. Teens aren't going to turn off their phones just to outwit their parents. They are in a car driving somewhere, most likely with their friends, obviously they will have it on.
Well what if they are listening to the Cure and it is all I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU and then a tear comes to their eye and stuff because Robert Smith is SO DREAMY and then it all records OVERDOSE OF EMOTION, PLEASE PROCEED TO REPROGRAMMING CLINIC and like a black ops gila copter sweeps down and airlifts them out of the car and then they are taken to some medical hospital whatever and they are given a prozac proscription.
What about that one smart guyz!!!!!
How long before the first instance of this being used on company-supplied employee cellphones?
This is stupid. Here's why: What will the average parent do when they get an alert by phone that their child is 20mph over the speed limit?
They'll phone them.
Stupid.
Where's the Kaboom?
There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
It's about time these youngin's learned that it's about cornering, not speed.
This is good for knowing with some precision where the phone is. That may or may not be good information for telling where your teen is.
Now, what would be more interesting is tracking the number of times your teen uses terms such as "OWNED", "TUBGIRL", or "GOATSE.CX" during their on-line time. I'd be much more worried about seeing those in their life .... much more than simple speeding.
GPS could better be used for just tracking where your kids are. My phone has GPS, and its advertised for doing so, but sprint doesn't allow you to use the feature.
Cell phones have GPS recievers? Will they show you your exact latitude, longitude, and altitude? If not, why are they there?
you also discover, it does not work if they are on the phone.. kids in a fast moving car, could simply call each other, and 'flash' over if they get another call..
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
SMS - 5:15:05: Jacob is driving at 400 mph
"Hi mom, The plane just took off!"
Teens KNEW the cameras were there and also recording their voices and they STILL would do really stupid stuff, speeding, turning around and talking to passengers while driving, and just basically driving recklessly. No surprises.
They are just so absorbed in "their" worlds that nothing else matters.
I like microcars
no cockstick, you didn't make it.
gps trackers, electronically tagged drivers licenses, government IDed kegs, drug tests for sports teams and nearly every minimum wage job ...
They're really trying to legislate the fun out of being young. I'm glad to be in my 20s right now.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
My cell phone (and most others I suspect) allows me to either 1) turn off GPS or 2) turn off GPS to everyone but 911. Were I a teen, my parents would never know how fast I'm going.
Lemme guess... 14, and parents just found your pr0n stash?
*grin*
When E911 was unveiled, the usual privacy advocates started making noise about how it could be abused. Nobody really paid attention: 'Oh come on, GPS is alREADY in cell phones, just not as accurate, and it has the letter E on the front, for EMERgency. And besides, what do you care if people know sorta where you are?'
Well, E911 isn't even completed yet, and not only is big brother tracking everyone, they're gonna make a quick BUCK on it, for crime's sake!
The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
2: The kids are NOT going to turn off their cell phones. Do you know any teenager that can stand being out of touch with their friends for even 5 minutes while eating dinner with the family? Yeah, right.
3: Could it help recover lost/stolen cell phones? That alone could be the killer feature.
4: Of course the kids are on to this, and there will be hacks to try and disable this feature, but I suspect there's more good than bad here, and will succeed better than the original poster believes if the reception problem can be handled.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
First the children.
Next the convicts.
Then those in public service.
And finally everyone else.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
they make this manditory for everyone... just build a phone in your dashboard. hopefully it can report back to the CIA too. that'd be cool. privacy shmiracy.
First of all, it might be a fate worse than death for any teen these days to not have their phone on, but as a parent, thats an easy hurdle to get over.
If the phone goes off, it is assumed that they were speeding. If they complain, so be it, they dont need to drive. It's not hard to put your foot down, it just seems hard for parents to discipline these days.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Oh yeah, and disconnect the ignition coil and battery cable. If they ain't smart enough to fix that, they don't deserve to drive.
Oh yeah, I'll still check the odometer.
And if they don't like it, say bye-bye internet access and bye-bye telephone in the room.
And if the kid doesn't like that, I'll open up the second-story window and toss the bedroom TV right out into the yard, no matter how many work hours it represents.
My house, my rules. Tough shit.
And all the EM from a cell phone kept in pants pockets that results is a great way to prevent unwanted teen pregnancy
If I am going to pay the insurance and the damages because my kid had a moment of complete stupidity and drove 180MPH into a family on the way home from church. I want the right (even if I don't use it) to monitor him.
And yea if my kid is dumb enough to do that I would hope he would at least hit and tree and kill just himself rather than kill anyone else.
It will be nice to know that your child just broke the sound barrier ;-)
most phones still have a pseudo-GPS that uses cell towers to triangulate your position. some phones allow you to see the GPS-ish codes if you get into the programmer's menu (look online for your phone). but those codes won't mean anything to you. in theory these can be used by the e911 system we all seem to be paying for but few, if any, states in the US actually have them working. some carriers use these vague GPS positioning systems to help you find local restaurants or movie theaters. just getting your location from one tower would be valif for that use in most cases... but if you call 911 and say "i am tied up in the trunk of a car and i don't know what it looks like".... they will need something a little better.
i think some phones may have real GPS recievers, but remember most GPS units require clear view of the sky. even being in a car (as opposed to far out on the dashboard) can block signals.
This sounds like a perfect solution for those parents who have let the TV babysit their kids for years. They rely on content filters to monitor the kids internet usage and only gauge what the kids listen to and watch based upon the current rating system. Now they don't even have to ask where the kids are going. This sounds like another tool for un-involved, distant and lazy parents to pretend like they care about their kids, but it only sends the message that "we don't trust you". What happened to talking and communicating to kids, teaching them right from wrong and then trusting them to do the right thing.
"We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. " Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Don't worry, you'll graduate high school eventually.
It's not hard to put your foot down, it just seems hard for parents to discipline these days.
How true, how true! And we have the perfect example of bad parents in the couple who are living in a tent in their front yard. No way would I move out of MY house into a tent to prove a point to a clueless teen. Send them to the tent!
Take that, smart ass.
If the phone goes off, it is assumed that they were speeding. If they complain, so be it, they dont need to drive.
There is some logic in your statement, however, to assume that your teen would never forget to charge the phone (or plug it into the charger upon getting into a vehicle) would be rather shortsighted. It's one thing if the phone is sporadically dying for five minutes and then coming back on (IE... enough time for a drag race or something), but phones do die.
If you do trust your kid to drive safely then you shouldn't monitor them.
If you don't trust your kid to drive safely then you shouldn't let them drive at all.
You sound like a 'wonderful' parent. You must really help your kids self-esteem and make them feel loved. No wonder you posted Anonymous!
"We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. " Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
and I'm sure Teens are the only ones doing this-- Everyone knows after 30 you become infinitesimally wise and infallible.
most carriers have been collecting e911 fees for a few years now. the money was supposed to go to building and maintaining the system. the theory was that even people who don't have it in phones willw hen they upgrade. the problem is that a lot of states have done nothing to build the system and they shift the money into the general fund.
a lot of carriers boast the e911 phones and sell it to safety-minded people. they neglect to tell those people that while the phone is e911 ready, there is no actual e911 system to save them.
Johnny put his car in a special military aircraft : Johnny driving speed record : 13:00:00 50 mph 13:02:00 30 mph 13:03:00 60 mph 13:04:00 0 mph 13:07:00 30 mph 13:10:00 1000 mph Parents : I knew Johnny saw that chick on our street corner and decided to turn back. Our Johnny is not gay!
Parents just have to inform their children that if there is a loss of GPS data for more than n seconds caused by turning the phone off, placing a prolonged call, turning the GPS off on the phone, etc., will result in punative actions. With escalating punishment for each occurance, up to and including prolonged grounding.
No, actually - an adult. Just making a clear point that children are property and that treating this as a "your rights online" situation is silly. Children don't have a right to privacy like the rest of the population. They also don't have many other rights, either. So people shouldn't be all freaked out over news like this. It's just no big deal.
How do you know the teens weren't just goofing off to show off for the camera? Hmmm?
Here's what you do:
Run a double-blind study by:
Well, I'm guessing you're not 17. Neither am I, but slash does have a fair number of young readers.
Please help metamoderate.
You, on the other hand, are all to likely to wind up with a porn-star daughter who got AIDS from shooting heroin and dies at the age of 29.
But she'll have great self-esteem.
You dumbass.
All of this information will be transmitted in real time to a giant government supercluster, which will essentially be a cluster of 8192 clusters, each of which will consist of 128,000 IBM zSeries 1000 computers. These computers will run complex psychological, psychiatric, medical, legal, and financial algorithms, which will use actuarial formulas and methods to compute the past trends of behavior and state, as well as the probability of possible future behaviors and states of the subject.
These technologies will be used for many purposes, such as law enforcement, the prediction of crimes and the assignment of mandatory psychiatric and criminal help before possible crimes occur, the automatic management and categorical assignment of financial transactions, automatic tax revenue deduction from each transaction, the monitoring of the location and activities of subjects, the prediction of future traffic patterns (which will be used by automatic automobile pilot systems to select faster routes, as the vehicles will be driven by computer, and by civil engineers to select locations for expansion or for new highways), and many other uses.
Furthermore, the chip will contain storage to be used for the maintainance of the subject's medical, legal, and financial information throughout its life.
This would allow parents to make sure their teens don't drive too fast, even though the vehicles will be driven by computer, as explained above.
Teen Arrive Alive. What a great thing for the children.
Wow.
What happened to trust? What happened to teaching kids how to drive well in the first place?
This is just another thing for parents who actually don't care enough about their kids to give them the time and effort to develop their own judgment.
Ever since I was five, my father often told me exactly why he was driving the way he was driving. Nothing like excuses, quite simple things, like when would be a good time to pass and stuff.
Now I have the benefit of his many years of experience, because he made the effort to share that experience with me. I cannot imagine the lack of trust there must be in families that cannot trust their own children to have common sense.
In a way, I see this as similar to greed. One can never get enough once one starts down that path. I do not believe for a moment that anyone using this would be doing it for the teens, because if they actually cared, they would have helped their children figure out what's smart and what's not many years before they got a driver's license.
It seems more like a method to ensure one's own picture perfect life stays picture perfect in the absense of having a life of substance. In other words: One less possible nuissance.
If my parents would have tried pulling any shit like this on me when I was sixteen, I would have moved away from them, quite simply because I could never live with people that thought so little of me.
If you give your kid a car that can do 180, then yeah, you should be penalized. Just for stupidity, if nothing else.
Here in Norway, we've got Location Services (often referred to as POS). Any content provider receives the following information connected to an end users location: latitude, longitude, start- and end-angel, inner and outer radius, region, municipal-number and county.
The system works up to 300m accurate in city centres, but might be as much as 35km accurate in rural areas (since there are less antennas that can be used in triangulating the signal).
Information about the end user is not available content providers, since those content providers receive only a unique static id for each customer that orders a Location Service.
A service using POS would be a lot better than a service where you rely on a specific kind of cellphone being on, not in use and equipped with a specific Java application (of which you have no clue what it in fact does, since it was installed for you).
The best thing of all: with POS users have to specifically approve requests for any content provider. So no sneaky applications that parents can install on mobile phones.
The invasion of privacy "offered" by the Teens Arrive Alive system should scare any sane American away from the system, assuming that the fact that it comes recommended by the former chief of military ops in Iraq wasn't enough to make you scream and run for your life.
In God We Trust, Others We Monitor
So you name the numbers from 20 to 29 with something ending in "teen" do you?
I can just see all the nerds have competions to see who can get their cell phones to report the highest velocities. I can see every thing rocket motor powered roller skates in the parking lot to spud-guns across the football field.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Guilty until proven innocent?
Turn off phone, pop out battery, then say the battery died. Or, if you're really paranoid, stun-gun the cellphone. It's not just necessarily parents monitoring teens. Its anyone monitoring anyone. Besides, if my parents tried to monitor me in this fashion, I'd just skip town.
you have your values straight.
Let me get this straight. This system promotes talking on the phone to your parents while driving, assuming you're a teenager hurtling down a road in a car you're likely not experienced enough to drive to begin with.
The critical thinking of Tommy Franks at work.
*blinking cursor*
This will just encourage more bad behavior; generally, when something is obstructed, it becomes more appealing. You hadn't sped previously; but now if you do, your parents are spying on you and can find out, it becomes more of a drive to get around that obstacle because it'd be "beating the parents". Kind of like unintentional reverse psychology.
You do know that even though teens in the 16-18 year range make up only a small portion of the driving population yet they are responsible for a disproportionate number of accidents, right?
Teens are morons. Lack of experience, overconfidence, peer pressure, and just plain stupidity. I'm all for increasing the driving age to 18.
And everyone should be made to take the MSF rider training course. Even if you never plan to ride a motorcycle, it will make you a way better driver.
HAHAHAHA! Ahem. NO YOU DIDN'T GET FIRST POST YOU MEANINGLESS WASTE OF BANDWIDTH. NOW ALL YOUR BASES ARE OURS! I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW NOT-FIRST-POSTER OVERLORDS! And any other trite, stupid meme that /. unwittingly perpetuates by not requiring an IQ test (which I would undoubtedly fail) to post.
In short: As the doctor said to your mother when you were born "Nope! Didn't make it!"
My Nokia 6015i phone has a GPS chipset in it. Anyone know if it's possible to get the GPS data out of it? (like for use on a PDA/Laptop)
Shame to see the technology wasted if you can't get the data out. I have to carry my laptop + phone + Garmin GPS. Device overload.
In every case that anyone tries to spy on you, do you trust them more or less? Less of course! Parents need to have authority over their childeren, but equally need to maintain their trust, otherwise they're just dictators.
We've all done stupid stuff, and our parents have all done stupid stuff. But its how our parents handled that stupid stuff that grew (is growing?) us into the people we are and will be.
How is this going to help parents dialog with their kids? We slashdotters may not figure out the exact way teens will get around this invasion of their privacy, but we can all agree that a way to defeat this will be found. Thus, in yet another way our culture will be sending the subtle message to teens: don't trust your parents, they're out to get you.
Regardless of their methods or motivations, most parents really do want the best for their kids and are just lost, confused, and trying desperately to make that happen in any way that they can. Its so sad to see companies trying to prey on this drive.
I'm not sure what country you're talking about (Arkansas, maybe? If it's the U.S., these things are usually matters of state law.), but here: Your parents can't beat you to death (or more realistically, some reasonably close approximation). That's called child abuse. Heck, if you leave your kids locked in a house for a few hours without supervision it's called "endangerment", because little Johnny might figure out how to burn the house down, oh no, and nobody's there to rescue him from the burning building. Similarly, you can't molest your own kids, either, that's also child (sexual) abuse. Lots of parents go to jail for that in this country all the time. Never underestimate the activism of child social services.
A child may not have the same rights as an adult, but they have fewer responsibilities, too. A child certainly has more rights than even the most expensive house or car. A child may also become a legal adult even before the age of 18, if they go before a court.
I take it you're not a parent, and certainly hope that's the case, as you seem to have a very skewed idea of what being an adult (and a parent) is all about.
While in the UK and a few other European countries the second of your points apply, in most of the rest of Europe none of them do. In many cases a parent that for instance pried open a locked diary or opened a kids letter can be subjected to criminal charges, and any violance against children would be punished hard. In Scandinavia even light spanking would be considered illegal abuse.
Molesting children are the subject of automatic criminal charges regardless of relationship, and in all jurisdictions I know about, close family relationships would result in a STRICTER punishment because of abuse of trust etc. than if a stranger had done the same.
How does this address teen driving safety?
Folks- repeat after me. Not Speeding != Safely driving.
Teens have a lot of problems with situational awareness- ie where other cars are around them. This is aggrivated by distractions in the car with them; teenage passengers, unlike adults, aren't as good as recognizing when they shouldn't talk to the driver. MA state law places restrictions on who can be in the car with young drivers.
Teens have a lot of problems with understanding what a car can and cannot do. They've probably never slammed on the brakes to see how slowly their car stops. They've certainly never been on a skidpad. They have no idea what ABS is for (neither do most adults; it's directional stability, NOT 'stopping as fast as possible'). They've never been taught when to steer around obstacles and when to brake for them, and certianly have never been asked to put into practice avoidance skills.
Teens are often given (or buy) the hand-me-down car, with old safety technology, bad tires/brakes/steering. There are exceptions, but it's rarely the rich kid who got a new small commuter car with 8 airbags and traction control who ends up splattered on a tree. It's the kid who works at the supermarket and drives a +15 year old car he/she bought for $500 and whose parents can't afford to help him/her keep it in excellent shape. Nevermind the safety ratings on inexpensive 0-20 year old US-made small cars is absolutely atrocious. Teens also like SUVs.
So basically: they need to focus and have situational awareness, they need to have a based-on-experience understanding of the capabilities of THEIR vehicle and basic car handling techniques, and they need to be driving reliable, safe cars.
Speed comes from a lack of the understanding of the implications (stopping distance skyrockets with speed, for example) and consequences (survivability in a collision plummets, for example). Policing them, just as policing adults, does not solve the root cause. Further- everyone else around them is going to be doing well over the speed limit, so not only are we being hypocritical, but they will be more of a hazard on the road to themselves and others!
I happen to find it hilarious, given light of recent events, that an automotive safety company has a Iraq war leader as their spokesman. Any comments about armour for Humvees, Mr. Franks?
Please help metamoderate.
That's the beauty of econo cars - you can tweak the hell out of the suspension to make it corner flat and grip like a nympho gymnast. Anything that makes the car that much fun is good when you realize that you'll never make more than 130whp without spending thousands.
The pain was excruciating and the scarring is likely permanent, but that just means it's working.
Oh No You Di'int! In fact you are the kind of poster who makes the enemies list necessary. Have a nice day. Fucker.
In my opinion, if they could arrange some sort of insurance discount, the system would sell like CRAZY. I think right now it's at least $2000/year for a teen driver.
Bad idea for stupid parents who are going to be outwitted by their kids just turning off the phones?
You don't think that any parent that employs something like this wouldn't punish a kid for turning their phone off? I'm not 100% b/c I'm not a parent, but I can almost promise that there are already provisions between certain parents and their children using cell phones today. You can bet that there are parents that will punish their kids if their phones are turned off on a Saturday night while the parent is trying to reach them.
-- jimmycarter
"Gee, Dad, the GPS feature on my phone must not work in the car."
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
First, about the trust issue. Just as with the russians... Trust but verify.
The problem with teenagers is that they have all the maturity and experience of teenagers. Being monitored in such a way helps a kid make better decisions. (not getting caught is a fine motivator) and bad decisions cannot be as well hidden by mearly lying.
The most heinous and famous of crimes are often committed by kids whose parents had unflinching trust in thm. And the most manipulative and intelligent of those children probably read Slashdot, and post anonymously "if you can't trust them don't let them drive!"
The years of 16 to 18 are periously filled with all sorts of hazards. Parents can use all the help they can, to help their kids make it through it. Those who don't believe that are not parents, but mearly are kids, or have been kids. And yes while you turned out ok, the jails are full of kids that their parents were convinced they were "good kids"
And damning it for being a not-perfect technology. Well yes, that is fun for the first million or so imperfect technologies, until you realize that *all* technology is imperfect and that doesn't necessarily make something unusable or non-useful, it just makes it technology.
It would suck to have a stalker after you. I bet no celbrities will sign up for this.
Stick that in your compiler and debug it!
So, let's say I receive a message saying little Billy is going 60 mph. Is this in some residential area with a 25 mph speed limit, or is it on a highway with a 60 mph speed limit?
I don't know!
sup
He's just trolling. "Beating" your child to the point of abuse is not acceptable, but spanking is not child abuse unless you're some hippy freak. Children should have no expectation of privacy. When I have children they will be monitored at all times. It is a parent's responsibility to care for their children not just let them go off willy-nilly and do whatever they want.
Ah, you must not be a parent.
To achieve an appearance of speed, you move physical matter? Your Geek-fu is sadly lacking, young padawan.
Copy data to clone the phone to people nationwide, and you can flip nodes on and off to simulate cell-boundary crossing. With prearrangement, you could make the phone appear to break lightspeed.
just to put some sort of governer in your teen's car? I'm sure it'd be far more accurate than some cell phone gps thingy.
n/t
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Uh, no. A guy in the UK was just recently done for assault after hitting his three-year-old child. By all accounts he was being a bit too heavy-handed, though.
This service happens to be available on a number of cell phones already. This is the first I've heard of it being used to track your kids, but its primary application is for companies to be able to track and monitor employees when they are in the field (sales reps, delivery drivers, etc). Companies often find this useful to be able to tell if their drivers are making the rounds they should be, if they're driving the correct speed limit and so on. It helps ensure productivity if they suspect that their employees aren't doing what they should be. Anyhow, as for teenagers being "tracked", I'm sure there's plenty of kids who would complain about "invasion of privacy" and whatnot, but what else is new? Being a teenager sucks, has always sucked, and technology isn't going to do a damn thing one way or another.
Wrongo. Parent of 4, grandparent of 3.
It is a criminal offense to kick out a minor. The parents in FL were lucky/brilliant by finding the one niche that would stick in the hearts and minds of the media the world over. The kids are now saying they are going to work the media too, and demand cable in the bedroom, etc. but public opinion is against them. This is the kind of thing that will work only once though. It is already old news. It isn't even original, Cosby did a Cosby show similar to this approach, though they didn't move out. I say: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Fun.
...But I digress. TREMBLE PUNY HUMANS!ONE DAY MY SPECIES WILL DESTROY YOU ALL!
... would your phone have a GPS anyway?
You do know that teens in the 16-18 year range make up the vast majority of drivers with less than two years' driving experience, right?
Raising the driving age would do more to delay the bad driving than anything else.
Wow, has parents really become that bad that they don't even trust their kids to drive. In that case they deserve to get what's comming to them when their kids turn off the phone and speed anyway.
Not that this really affects me. I'm too grown up by now (and I don't have crappy parents), and I certainly don't plan on using this on my kids.
Failing to learn from history dooms you to repeat it.
...POS is known as "Huffy Bicycle". Funny thing, these languages.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Senile folk wandering off and getting lost is a problem. So you can use gps to track them.
Driving in my car, with the GPS on...
An get the teens a camcorder to see what they're doing if they're not speeding:
youcrossedthedoubleline.MPG, a 5mb mpeg
or bike cam:
crazy.wmv 10mb
Monitoring doesn't replace parenting. Therefore, it should only have a marginal affect on teen driving behavior. When teens know what responsible driving is and know their parents expect that - not just hope, *expect* - behavior will improve.
Wow, I bet your kids will turn out really healthy and sane (and codependent)!
Uhm...the parent can simply make their child's driving privileges contingent upon the child keeping the phone on (and with them in the car) while driving.
A major phone network in the UK operates a similar service. My company implemented (but failed to sell) a web-based vehicle tracking system using it. We set up an account with the phone company for development/testing purposes.
They allowed us to track 10 numbers we nominated
*without the users' permission*.
I was surprised to discover my private phone was being tracked (though I wouldn't have objected if the phone company had checked with me first).
I don't use that network anymore.
What did this guy do? I mean really? Is this /. or www.somethingawful.com?
-Flame this.
they should attach the gps device to the car and secure it such that if tampered with, it would disable the vehicle.
Given a teens understanding of electronics, it won't be long before a workaround or hack is discovered. I must admit I don't know how the GPS unit works in a cell phone. If it's a separate receiver that relays data to the cell phone's transmitter, then I would imagine that the phone could Tx and Rx calls while the GPS Rx was blocked. Could the phone be put in a lead lined bag, like the kind used to put film through an x-ray machine, while the phone's antenna protruded through a small hole? Now if the phone uses triangulation between the towers that's a whole different story.
As an avid hiker, I'm well aware of the limitations of consumer level GPS units. The accuracy is typically between 10-50 feet depending on a number of factors. In thick tree cover (or tunnels) it is not uncommon for the GPS to temporarily lose the sat. signals. I would also think that GPS enabled cell phone, placement within the vehicle would be critical. Basically, teens would find a way to discredit the GPS cell phone and regain their independance, even it they abide by the speed limits 99% of the time.
Lack of experience, overconfidence...
Yeah. Pushing up the driving age to 18 is really going to help with experience. And then kids will be learning to drive without parents there? (Okay, they'll be adults technically, but, still.)
People will always push driving to the limit when they are just learning it. And then after a while it all gets old and people start driving by rote.
Although that MSF rider training course is a good idea. Hell... I even think that there should be graduated liscenses, say regarding times that teenagers can drive, possibly even limiting their freeway driving. And then you have to pass additional skills based tests to get that stamp.
I worked for a cell phone company (GSM) and I once visited the main network control room and the operators showed me a software that allowed them to triangulate the position of any of their costumer by simply using the antennas of the network.
Also if I wanted to log the speed of a car when someone is using it, I'll think of a better idea. I'll hide a training/running watch with GPS in the trunk; Nobody can turn it off, no monthly subscription, you will be able to export the data on a computer and you will be the only one who can access the data.
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
Hasn't their been lots of problems with GPS reliability. Positions chaning wildly, especially right after someone goes in a tunnel, etc, etc.
The kid could be doing 45 in a 45 and the system comes up with the following:
13:00:01: 45 MPH Northbound
13:00:02: 105 MPH Northbound
13:00:03: 103 MPH Southbound
13:00:04: 90 MPH Northbound
13:00:05: 88 MPH Northbound
13:00:06: 45 MPH Northbound
Notice the nice average speed of 45 MPH Northbound - this is a logical failure mode for GPS where some of the intermediate positions are scrambled. Please, no one tell me the kid could actually be doing that, unless his car can stop and reverse at over 9G's.
Of course you can filter the data to eliminate this, but how to do avoid false negatives. Such as the kid ripping up and down the freeway at 105 and then driving off at the speed limit.
GPS positioning needs to be made better. Joggers using it to track their speed are very annoyed by the inaccuracies.
Maybe we need an urban positioning system based of triangulation of signal strengths and time delays of transmitters (such as cell towers). That might have made a better decision than GPS or a good backup for it for the E911 cell phone location system.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
If my kid cant remember to charge a phone, do you think that they should be driving?
The point is, the child will learn that when you gain a privelage, there is a set of resposibilities that go with it. If one of them is making sure the phone is functioning, then they better take care of it.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
How long before this becomes standard equipment on cars and it isn't your parents but the police that are notified?
Arnie in Cali already wants to use some GPS tech to track how far people drive and tax them accordingly (why isn't a gas tax better??).
Big Brother is calling in the big guns...look out, Big Mother is watching ;)
Give me but one firm spot on which to stand, and I will move the earth.
- Archimedes
This is obvious a sinister plot by some evil super-villan!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
In my example, yes, guilty. This is a completely optional situation they will be entering in to. This is not the justice system. It's kids driving cars and being responsible for making sure the tracking is working to my satisfaction, nothing more.
If it was a hard task to do, (keeping a phone on) I might be more accomodating, but I manage to do it every day with no problem.
Of course if they had a GREAT reason why the phone wasnt on, like they brought it home in 500 pieces, then I could use my own judgement as a parent to make an exception.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Depends what you mean by 'children'. A parent should gradually introduce the child to the real world, where they aren't always been looked after by mummy and daddy. If you don't give your children any responsibility of their own when they are younger, when they hit 18 (or 21, depending on your country), they aren't going to magically be responsible!
Sure, for younger children (I'm not specifying a particular age, thats my point), they should be monitored all the time. But as they grow up, they should be treated more and more like adults, and that includes respecting their privacy.
printf("Goodbye cruel world!\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b");
Hmm, give me a reason to believe your claim that the next logical step would be convicts, and then those in the public service???
I'm not convinced. It's easy to fall into that trap, but it is still a fallacy. Perhaps you are being funny, but I'm going to assume that you are being honest.
THAT being said, I do believe that this is a bad step, but better reasons are required than fictional postulations that this could eventually lead to some sort of totalatarian police state where we all carry around GPS emitters. In any case, children are not being legislated by the state to carry these transmitters!
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
It will be hacked, and before you know it, a new market shall be born -- highschoolers accross the US punching holes in the GPS chips for 5$ with a special of unlocking Nokia cell-phones for a buck more. Too bad they don't have the foresight to incorporate themselves and go public...I'd invest in without hesitation!
Now then, Dmitri, you know how we've always talked about the possibility of something going wrong with the Bomb...
I don't know about any other teens, but I turn my phone off while I drive, regardless. It's only safe. What would happen if I'm driving and my phone starts to vibrate in my pocket? It could startle me enough to swerve. It also doesn't tempt me to answer the calls, either, by having it off.
Which is a bit of an overstatement. It's still a silly idea. Don't trust the kid? Don't let them have a car. Easy.
Optional?
Nope.
School requires someone *drive* you there.
Work requires someone to *drive* you there.
This is why we have *police man*. They will give you a ticket.
If you want to stop your kid from being able to speed, lock them in the house and restrict this TV shows and game usage to those that aren't "harmful" for him to watch.
Won't someone puh-leez think about the children?
Come on Soccer-Mom's-R-Us.
I'm glad I'm 21 and don't live with my parents becuase they were close to you, to a certain extent.
If you want the children to think how an adult life is, then farking treat them like one. This means innocent until proven guilty. If you push them harder and harder in stupid shit like this, they keep going farther and farther away. My parents tries his kind of shit to an extreme with my sister when sister went through her teen years. All it did was push for harder and harder drugs to get over this crap so you didn't care.
On the flip side, if you kid does care, then they wouln't be doing it in the first place?
Becuase we know *all* teens are logical and think before they act.
And we *know* that a teen must obey the punishment, like no driving or leaving the house at night.
I hope your children go through the crap I went through. The wonderful thing, is the paretns get it in the end.
Where I'm from, you skip school it's a crime. They fine you. They fine 13 year olds. They fine 8 year olds. Who pays for it? You have to be 16 or older for a job. So lets attach a criminal record to these youngsters. We are making some progress now!
Heaving forbid people learn personal responsibilty (parents). Like the Walmart CD stuff where Evenances (sp?) said the word *gasp* 'fuck'. I would understand a GPS phone after your child does some *seriously stupid* stuff and you truely can't *trust* them. However for 90% of the children, this is taking it way too far.
If my kid cant remember to charge a phone, do you think that they should be driving?
I understand where you're coming from, however, my Mother doesn't always remember to keep her phone charged, and a good friend of mine lost her charger a few weeks ago (god knows how... she keeps the thing in her car.) As well, with alot of these phones, talking on them for any extended period of time completely kills the battery. They need Centrino for cell phones.
Lock a steel-belted shock collar around jr's
neck, and press the button on the remote to
zap the shit out of him when he steps out
of line.
Completely, totally, wrong. They do not understand WHY it is bad to turn their head and talk to a passenger, until they do so and it causes them to end up in another lane, nearly hit someone, etc.
The lucky ones get "nearly" put in front of "hit something" when they *maybe* tell a friend what happened. The unlucky ones get "when they" put in front of "hit something" in their obituary.
Why do they not understand? Because they are either not given enough info by their parents ("don't do this, it's BAD"), and/or they're given too much info by someone they are busy ignoring (the driver ed guy at their evening driver ed class, where they're doing their homework).
Please help metamoderate.
Thats why we need this in the first place...because its so easy to put your fut down
If the kids go faster than a certain speed, say 50Mph or so, the stereo shuts down. That way they can either cruise along and listen to their music, or they can go fast and not have that 300 beats-per-minute tune mess with their concentration.
This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for higher security.
Hum, I'm sure I used to either walk, ride my bike, or take the bus to school/college. I ride my bike to work now, very occasionally take the bus, rarely ever got a lift, and now I have a driving licence, will rarely drive even though my car is sitting in the driveway.
So, why do kids need a car? Get them to exercise on the way to school/work, maybe then the USA (I presume you are from there as you presume people need cars to go anywhere) wouldn't have the highest obesity rate in the world.
a kid turning off the phone ? never see that. We i saw certain "kids" (or immature so-called adults) i bet the phone is ON even in the bed in the middle of the night :)
Apart from this, in France, that would be a good idea, as you can be fined if you phone and drive in the same time.
stupid innovation, stupidest applications.
What does it mean, "appended to the end of comments you post"
Just as with the russians... Trust but verify.
That was a slogan. We didn't really trust them.
Being monitored in such a way helps a kid make better decisions.(my emphasis)
No, it forces them to make the 'better' decision, meaning they don't decide anything. Guess what will happen when they're turned loose to finally do whatever they want without being monitored.
And yes while you turned out ok, the jails are full of kids that their parents were convinced they were "good kids"
If we want to stop the jails from filling up, we'll need to moniter a lot more than velocity.
Those who don't believe that are not parents, but mearly are kids, or have been kids.
Logical Fallacy. Ad hominem circumstantial.
LOL! Imagine the fun when the kid is riding in the car with her parents who have a leadfoot, and the system repeatedly calls the parent's phone saying their kid is speeding.
And what's to stop the kid from signing up to track their parents? Sounds fair to me.
That will be the end of use of that service in that family.
I know you're exagerating, but super fast music isn't that popular. It's just the stuff with insane amounts of low end hooked up to giant subwoofers (and the bass on their 2-band eq turned to +6) that you hear blaring out of kids cars. A lot of the younger people I've dealt with seem to feel that More Bass = Better Sound.
It's Nascars fault. They have been promoting their "speed" propaganda for some time now. They have trained a generation to not know how to drive! It's all about F1's and Indy, where it actually takes skill and moving of the steering wheel. Any idiot can hold down the gas pedal. It takes skill to steer on the fastest path.
Also, in terms of street legal cars, that's why I'm all about Porsche's. Even better, the new Mini can out-handle a Carrera 4 in the slolam!
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.
Anyone who has used GPS knows it won't work with a layer of sheet metal between it and the GPS satellites.
Just keep the cell phone near the center of the car up near the roof. It will be blocked from GPS signals but still get cellular signals because they come in horizontally through the windows.
I predict a market for headliner mounted cell phone holders will develop.
I mean, I'm not saying they SHOULD be sued....but we know how parents get over things like this. Especially parents who feel that a GPS unit that can monitor the cars speed will save their kid.
I personally always thought teenagers should have to go to a professional driving school. Nothing to do with drifting or powersliding or anything, but just gaining actual experience on a safe, open course in bad road conditions such as sliding in snow, hydroplaning, spinning out, etc. I find the big problem with young drivers is not that they don't know about those situations, its that they've never been in them before, so their bodies don't know how to automatically react. And its those first crucial seconds that determine the outcome.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Just teach people how to drive before they can get their license.
I cannot find one single public school in the Bay Area that still teaches drivers ed. Getting a license is *TOO EASY* in California. You don't even have to speak English - they'll give you the test in your native language.
I say that before anyone gets a license, they must undergo no less than 16 hours of classroom training and defensive driving courses. If they pass, they get a license. If not, more training. There are just far too many people driving around here that really have no idea how to drive, and it's dangerous.
Forget this GPS tracking & tattle-tale electronics crap - just LEARN TO DRIVE.
God! We're putting a technology "solution" on a problem that has such obviously superior solutions - again.
Tinfoil
It depends on where you live. I've lived in several places (not even rural), where it would take well upwards of an hour to walk to school. This is certainly possible, but difficult when that would involve leaving home at 5:30am in the snow. Biking was quite unsafe in at least one of these places, and impossible for a good part of the year in another. Urban planning often doesn't allow for responsible methods of transportation, which is a terrible pity.
I treasure living somewhere where I only have to use my car to go dancing, and not for commuting, partially because I've lived the alternative.
Lea
Monta Vista HS, in Cupertino (read: the bad driver capitol of bay area, by all means) taught driver end while I attended (class of 2002).
I do agree with you, that getting a license is *far* too easy. I could have easily passed the driving test, and gotten the needed amount of hours (with an in instructor - some amount *is* required for you to able to get a license, but its tiny) without learning how to drive. Luckily, I got tons of practice with my dad, but I've known far too many other people my age (back then) who were totally unprepared for the road and got into horrible accidents.
In the end, the GPS idea is to put it mildly, retarded. All it does is make the teen angry (just what we need, more teen angst on the roads) and scam parents out of more money.
How about just removing teens from the road? At least in the States. What's the cons to this other than millions of pissed off teens and parents that are constantly being pestered to drive them somewhere?
...this product has been condemned by Former Iraqi Information Minister, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf. His official comment:
"Parents are sick in their minds. They say teenagers drive too fast. I tell you this is not true. There are no speeding teenagers anywhere in the United States."
That reminds me of the case two days ago where a burglar's case was overturned because the evidence was supplied by a mother snooping on a phone conversation between her child and the suspect. While this is not a case of communications eavesdropping, is it not still a violation of the same fundamental privacy rights?
... no-one would buy it.
They are just so absorbed in "their" worlds that nothing else matters.
Yes, sweeping generalizations about people based on information gathered by shows like "Dateline" (which specialize in shocking people into being concerned about stuff by presenting the horrible antics of a very, very small minority as the actions of a generation) are ALWAYS the way to go. Or, MAYBE, driving recklessly is a characteristic of bad drivers, not of all teenagers.
I have a prius, you can still disconnect the battery (batteries) anytime you want. Jump-starting those things is a weird proposition though.
Changa hates change.
"Given a teens understanding of electronics, it won't be long before a workaround or hack is discovered."
Your kidding right? I suspect that the average teen knows a lot less about electronics than their parents did at their age.
"Beating" your child to the point of abuse is not acceptable, but spanking is not child abuse unless you're some hippy freak."
So if you're going to spank your child, better lose the love beads or you might go to jail.
Untrustworthiness is not some inherent quality in adolescence. I agree that I'm not "mature," but I can make mature decisions, I can speak maturely. All I need to drive maturely is experience. What makes you think that every teen is inherently evil? I admit that I've not passed through the danger zone you mention, but I'm a quarter into it, and foresee no further difficulty.
If parents didn't trust their children, places like Tranquility Bay (in Jamaica... look it up...) would be a lot more popular. How is that good parenting? Its atrocious! I'd also like to point out that enforcing something does not mean the enforcee will continue to exhibit the wanted behaviour. How many convicts leave prison only to commit another crime and become reimprisoned? The causation of enforcement on good behaviour is tentative at most.
I resent your ageism. There are some things that can be rightfully placed on adolescents, but knowing the difference between right and wrong is something anyone should have learned before they were 13. I also resent your insinuation of the association of intelligence and manipulation. I have no reason to manipulate my parents. Why would I? Shouldn't a maternal or paternal relationship be based on love?
The sale of vibration sensors for the back seat of cars far outsells the tracking mechanism.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
This is stupid. Here's why: What will the average parent do when they get an alert by phone that their child is 20mph over the speed limit?
They'll phone them.
Stupid.
--
Where's the Kaboom?
There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
Your sig says it all!
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
I think such a non-critical thing like keeping your phone charged is an excellent way to keep a kid thinking about responsibilites.
:)
This will train them to understand that something that doesnt seem important at all can carry serious consequences if not paid attention to. I'd much rather them screw up on the phone thing and lose the car for a few days than something that really is a critical thing... like using a condom.
Eh, its all debate, and I have no kids (but I didn teach swimming to kids, which has a certain critical thing to it, like staying on the steps so they dont drown). Yet I probably just cursed myself with these comments anyways to have a kid that ends up on Dr. Phil.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
There might be extreme situations where you might have to have your kid drive to school, but anyone can find an exception to just about everything.
For the most part in most cities a bike is just fine, as there are schools near by. In my area of the San Fernando Valley in Southern California its perfectly fine for anyone to ride a bike. I cant think of any places within 50 miles you'd need help either, except some hilltop homes.
So yes, a parent that MUST have their kid drive is in a different situation. But they still need to enforce rules with driving... teens die ALOT in cars because they are not good drivers for the most part,w hich is to be expected.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
I wonder if there are any plans afoot to develop a micro GPS device that could be implanted under the skin of foreign contractors, military personnel, journalists etc. in Iraq or other hotspots around the globe? Might come in handy if your head is scheduled to be sliced off in a matter of hours.
That's a long time for this to become mandatory, before I start driving. This does make me happy about being the only teenager in the U.S. who doesn't want a cell phone.
He said "it is the right and responsibility" to know where they're going and how fast.
Gimme a break. If you need to know these things about your kids, there's something wrong how you brought them up.
It's too late to track them.
Yes, OPTIONAL.
School requires someone *drive* you there.
That's why they have this thing called a "bus". Perhaps you've seen one? They're large, and generally yellow.
And, to pre-empt the inevitable response of "but the nearest bus stop is 5 miles from my house!": I grew up in exactly that situation, and my mom drove me to school. Being a parent is inherently inconvenient. If you aren't ready for the responsibility, don't have kids.
Work requires someone to *drive* you there.
If they don't have a car, they probably don't need a job that bad. I'm all for "learning the value of hard work" and all that, but when it comes right down to it, teens don't need jobs.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
I am a parent, and I couldn't have said it better.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
The poor kid is screwed.
And of course if the device/service can tell speed, it can tell position, how long at each stop, etc., and it need not be limited to teenagers, as this article describes:
http://boortz.com/nuze/200306/06092003.html
Another thing Neal Boortz has done (it may have been a couple years ago, I haven't heard about it lately) was help write and get a bill introduced into the Georgia legislature that (recalling only generally the gist of the bill) any crime commited by a teenager driving a car that results in someone's death, that teen cannot be tried as a juvenile, but must be tried as an adult. If a teen wants the adult privelege of driving a car, he or she most take the adult respolsibilities as well. There has been at least one teen vehicular homicide case where the teen was being tried as a juvenile.
Boortz has also been in favor of raising the minimum age to get a driver's license, due to the high rate of deaths among teenage drivers (see from the article under the the "related stories and links" section, Teen Driving Death Rate Soaring, and has often criticized parents of teens for buying them cars.
Other(s) commented on the ease of getting a driver's license in the USA. I've heard how some other (European) countries have much stricter driving tests, costing (the US equivalent of) hundreds of dollars, and taking hours (not counting the time standing in line, historically one of the biggest parts of getting a US license), much of which is driving on real roads in real, stressful situations such as rush hour traffic on freeways.
Is there talk about strengthening what it takes to get a driver's license in the US? Not that I've heard, in fact I've heard just the opposite, that some in California want to give licenses to illegal aliens.
For a longer and healthy, injury-free life, one's best bet is to stay off the public roads. Meanwhile, lobby to demand higher standards among the driving population.
Tag lost or not installed.
Uh teens uhh uhh TeeNs Uhh
This creates a self-fulfilling prophesy, where the kid is not trusted enough to drive responsibly and so drive irresponsibly.
The greater problem here is that the concept of 'teen years' has been manufactured and perpetuated in the last 50 years by [pick your culprit here]. That is, a certain time when kids live off their parents, indulge in conspicuous consumption, and are somehow allowed to make a myriad of mistakes before they are expected to act like adults.
Whereas, up until the 40s and 50s, young people were expected to work, go to college, or learn a trade in an apprenticeship, they're now allowed some sort of Disney/neverland, fatuous existence, where they go to college, buy a Che poster, grow dreadlocks, and generally act like adolescents well into their early 20s.
To sum up: Whereas in previous generations, responsibility was expected, today we give our kids way too much rope to hang themselves with, then use technology like this in some inane, misguided attempt to reign them in.
Absolutely! Why does everyone seem to assume that children have no rights anymore?
We talk about "setting a good example" and then we turn around and spy/eavesdrop on our own children, put all sorts of intrusive tracking devices in the electronics they use and so forth? That's not the type of example I want to set...
The premise is fairly flawed anyway. Look at this quote from the original article:
"If I know where my kids are, where they're going, how they're driving and how fast they're traveling, I can counsel them before an accident occurs. I can help protect them."
Ummm.... How is he going to "help protect them" before an accident occurs? The cellphone GPS may suddenly inform him that his teenager is driving way over the speed limit, but if the next thing that happens is he loses a signal - seems to me like it's too late and his kid just had a potentially fatal accident. If he thinks a little bit of "counseling" is going to work, he's deluded. Come on... As a teen, I heard *plenty* of lectures about driving safely and more slowly, and that was without anyone needing a tracking device to realize I wasn't always driving the local speed limit. Teens are going to do what they're going to do, and if you didn't get them to take some responsbility and be a little cautious from the start, it's way too late to fix their speeding habits when they're already out using your car.
Wrapping my phone in tinfoil has proven to be extremely good at keeping rogue signals from escaping my phone.
The easy thing for the kid to do is to bum rides off other people. It worked great for me. I hate cell phones, even now that my only phone is a cell phone. I usually can go for a couple weeks between charges, and my charge only holds for about a day. /driving sucks //driving in chicago sucks more ///is 18 and on my own so don't give me crap about responsibility
Neither state will the victim be buried in.
They are ALIVE!
GPS could tell you where someone is...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
> Of course if they had a GREAT reason why the phone wasnt on, like they brought it home in 500 pieces, then I could use my own judgement as a parent to make an exception.
Of course they could actually have used the car to go somewhere, say a cinema, and have turned off the phone at the destination...
Just an example, but there are many valid reasons for turning it off that don't require it ending up in pieces and have nothing to do with speeding.
If you insist on having to track that, use a proper device for trackign speed, not some location finder integrated into some communications device when 1. there exist good reasons for tunring it off so it becomes hard to draw any conclusions, and 2. neither device was made for measuring speed, and a combination of the 2 will not be very good at it either.
> If they don't have a car, they probably don't need a job that bad.
Well, except that there are peopel who cannot drive a car due to dissability (or do you really want someone who is blidn driving a car?). Yeah, I know what you are trying to say, but it comes out really short sighted as you are putting it there.
All the teen has to do is clip their cell phone to their sunvisor and voila, no signal from the satellites. GPS satellites near a clear view of the sky to get a signal. The GPS embedded in cell phones acts on the same concept. The cell phone needs a clear signal of the sky. Bada-bing-bada-boom, mom and dad can't see the car going vroom vroom.
ah, well that works... ;)
Teens are still learning to control their emptions, and it is their parents responsibility to help them learn.
The best Teen driver ever will still be ruled by hormones.
Any wise parent knows that a teen driving is going to do thing they shouldn't regardless of how much attention they were given growing up.
I would like to get a report that tells me what speed my teen is driving, so I can help the get though it alive.
Cause I care about my children, and I want them to understand their consequences.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
the ones that aren't disciplined stand out.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'd say the back seat.
Fortunatly the cop that caught had me get out of the car and said:
"People live aroung hear, they don't want to see this shit. GO someplace else. Be sure to use a condom.*" and then he got in his car and drove off.
Then I deflated my date and went home.
today that same scenerio probably would have ended with 3 police cars and me in handcuffs.
*In those days condom were just for stopping pregnency.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Guilty until proven innocent?
Welcome to parenting in the 21st Century! Keep in mind, new parents, that your child is ALWAYS guilty of something, even though it might be something seemingly innocuous, like thinking about sneaking a cookie. Such abnormal behavior must not be allowed to continue.
Note, however, that punishing poor behavior is strictly forbidden! It's far better to give your 3-year-old potential-cookie-sneaker a "time out" so that s/he can "think about what s/he was going to do" with all the logic and reason a 3-year-old can muster!
Let me just say that this is a really dumb service to be selling, and I hope it goes nowhere.
Eh?
I wouldn't put it past an israeli to bury a palestinian survivor. Of course they would bring up their endless suffering and misery if ever caught. Then boldy lie to your face when caught red handed and claim it was a humanitarian rescue mission.
Having a 4 year old boy and 2 year old girl, I have been worried about what *I* did and could have done at young ages that my mother knew nothing about, and given that I am big on letting my children see the Internet in all it's glory, I do NOT want them seeing some things (like beheadings, scat porn, etc). I also, however, have been comforted by the belief that by the time they get old enough for all that, there will be all kinds of ways to preemptively prevent them from seeing certain things, as well as monitor what they have seen in perfect clarity. (I still am worried about what they will see at friends' houses). Anyway, one thing I thought about in regards to going out and about when they are 14 to 17 was indeed a cell phone that go unanswered or the GPS is disabled, after a review of the cause, then non-emotional restrictions will apply.
While I won't have a bumper sticker on their cars, I will welcome the GPS that not only tells me their speed, but as well where they are at any given moment, or where they were at any given time.
"Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity."
Find a way to put an SLA into my phone...that'll make me remember to keep it charged ;)
Well, being inside an earthed metal chassis, it wouldn't be too hard to block.
You haven't been a teenager in a long, long time, have you?
Here's a good question for you: your child asks you never to read their diary/whatever, because it is private to them, and (s)he doesn't want you to read it.
Do you:
#3/4, if you do them, are just wrong. If your child doesn't want you to look at something, and is willing to front it to you, then you shouldn't.
Just in case you didn't remember, us kids are people too, and we have things we'd like to keep private.
WTF???? What country are you in that regards a child as not being a person????
Children have rights in the US. The right not to be abused sexually or physically, to get an education to 16, and the right to breath and eat. Aside from that it's pretty much up to the parents.
Then you should have met my dad. I can assure you, you wouldn't have driven for a year after the incident, and if you violated that then the line between physical abuse and discipline would become an issue. In my family getting you placed under house arrest by the local cops was even an option. I never pushed the envelope and did just fine. My little sister, however, was a different story. Your actions have very real ramifications, and when I was growing up this was drilled into you.
It sounds like your parents were limp wristed morons who let you raise yourself.
It sounds to me like you grew up with tyrannical parents, and are simply lucky to have been intelligent enough to see everything for what it was worth and grew up without doing anything stupid.
My parents were actually both teachers, and gave me plenty of guidance when I was growing up. I can remember receiving a few spankings as a kid if I was really acting up and nothing else worked - but there was no need to take "discipline" anywhere near the level of "physical abuse" to get a message across.
It sounds like your little sister behaved just like many other kids would behave if they're confronted with what feels like overly restrictive parents. They rebel... trying to push the envelope at every opportunity.
Of course your actions have very real ramifications, but this is a lesson one has to hear from their parents, but then hone into reality through their own experiences. (IMHO, when your parents try to artifically "inflate" the level of seriousness of things by using too much punishment on a regular basis, it tends to make the kid start blocking it all out. You run the risk of creating the opposite results you were expecting to get as a parent.)
Isn't it funny that if the big, bad government was to do this, every /.er would rebel against it, but as soon as it's the PARENTS (ie you) who want to do it, it's a perfectly okay "safety measure". Who knows what'll happen when PrivacyInvaders Inc. Release "TeenSpyCam 4000" so that their parents can "check up" on their kids, every minute of every day?
Who's the Big Bad totalitarians now?
Hypocrits.
This seems a sure way of causing an accident - by encouraging them to keep a cell phone on while driving. If you do this, they will likely talk with it while driving and not be as aware of their surroundings as otherwise. It would be better to tell them to turn them off and lock in the glove box while driving.
We're talking about unemancipated teenagers, not adults who have real world responsibilities. A teen without a car most likely doesn't need a job, and probably, when it comes right down to it, has more important things (in the long run) that they could be doing with that time.
Put your straw man away and read my comment in the context of the article.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
I think such a non-critical thing like keeping your phone charged is an excellent way to keep a kid thinking about responsibilites.
Bullshit. There's nothing about responsibility in charging a phone. I'm 28 and my phone still runs out of battery from time to time. It's not about responsibility, even if my phone dies, the only thing that will happen is that my brother won't be able to disturb me at work, so that I'll actually be able to get more work done.
If they don't have a car, they probably don't need a job that bad.
Please explain that one. I worked for years before I bought a car, which gave me the advantage of actually being able to pay for it, and a pretty nice car too (I live in a country where there a huge taxes on cars), where as everyone else, even my parents, borrow the money to buy a car. As for needing a job, well, my parents insisted very much that I get a job so I could move out, and in this country, everybody is supposed to work, if you don't find a job on your own, after some time the state will find one for you, and it's probably going to be something completely braindead than noone else wants - otherwise they would have gotten it first. So, yes I needed a job, and no I didn't need a car. I still don't, although some things like going to the beach or buying christmas presents have become easier. I still ride my bike to work, by the way.
... I saw that special on Dateline and it floored me. I never drove like that, ever. It was me in the car, maybe my sister, but I never hauled a bunch of freakish makeup artists everywhere.
In fact, when I drive now, I totally ignore my passengers. If the fiancee is talking to me too much I usually answer "Dear, I'm sorry, but I'm not really able to pay attention to you right now, I'm driving".
She's not gotten pissed off yet. If only I could try that when she wants to talk for 3 hours when I'm trying to go to bed....
Anyways, what needs to be done is simple: Revoke driving priveleges for anyone but single occupant. Those kids are the ones that need their licenses pulled, period.
> Put your straw man away and read my comment in the context of the article.
My comment was more general then the context of your comemnt, but definitely relevant to that context also. If some teenager doesn't need a job (and most don't) that is fine, but that does not change the argument at all.
The irony is that your wife was probably the more dangerous threat on the road that night. There have been multiple studies demonstrating that driving while using a cell phone is more dangerous than driving drunk. From the article:
To compound matters even worse, your wife was, by your own admission, "already quite fatigued." Of course, you can see where I'm going with this. There have been other studies which have demonstrated that driving tired can be worse than driving drunk:
When you combine those two factors, either of which are as bad or worse than driving drunk on their own, your wife was ironically worse of a danger on the road than the drunk himself, who most likely made it home safely.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Not in the way that you're thinking of ;)
;) Wow this post got long.. I love this car too much. :P
The Prius is powered mostly by a high voltage (200V) battery. There are electromagnetic relays powered by the 12V battery that either engage or disengage. If the 12V battery is dead, then the relays are disengaged, and no power can flow from the 200V battery out to the rest of the car. Some of the electronics work off the 12V circuit, but not many.
To start the internal combustion engine (and it's not needed for driving, many people have run out of gas and gone a couple more miles, or you can feather the pedal and get it to accelerate really slowly off of just battery. There's also mods to enable "Electric Vehicle" mode so that you can be a bit more normal on the gas pedal and it won't switch over to the gasoline engine), the car throws it's multi-function CVT transmission (look up the sun and planet transmissions) to forcibly spin the internal combustion engine to the right speed, then starts the spark plugs.
The spark is electronically controlled, so even if you could somehow get the computer controlled transmission to switch from neutral in to a mode where the wheels drive the internal combusion engine directly (and I don't think the transmission would like this mode at all, usually it'll detect more power from the wheels than engine momentum, and switch it over to one of the electric motors operating in reverse to charge the high voltage battery), there wouldn't be a spark to continue the engine running. Or maybe it's just the fuel valves are closed, so there wouldn't be any fuel in there. Either way, it wouldn't work.
Re: transmission modes.. Now that I think about the workings of the transmission, there has to be a way to get the ring and the planets working at the same time, which should give the internal combustion engine a spin. If it can drive the car, it has to have a direct connection. Rarely, if ever, is the ICE (internal combustion engine) isolated (no power from or to the electric motor), so you'd have to drive those too if you were attempting a push start. I know the car can spin the internal combustion engine off of the axle's momentum as a way to bleed off excess power (for example if the batteries are close to fully charged and you're using the regenerative braking, it doesn't want to overcharge the batteries, so it'll shut off the fuel valves to the ICE and just spin it without fuel as a way to get rid of excess power.)
There are wonderful articles on howstuffworks.com on automatic transmissions. priuschat.com and priusonline.com have a wealth of information on this car as well. Everything I've said is specific to the Prius's Hybrid Synergy Drive. Older Prii (America: 2001-2003 models) and other company's hybrids (I'm also familiar with Honda's system) use different hybrid technology that might work differently. Ford's is similar to Toyota's enough that they had to license parts/all of HSD from Toyota.
(Example: it's impossible for the Honda hybrids to drive without both the ICE and the battery providing power. There's no Battery-only drive mode)
Regular automatics are quite a bit different as well
Oh, the joke. you asked about a "push start", and I said "Not in the way you're thinking of".. There's no standard form of ignition on this car. To turn the car on, there's a big "Power" button on the dash that I push.
Push once: Multifunction display turns on. This is powered off the 12V in this stage.
Push twice: accessory/ignition on mode. Radio, headlights, etc. The 12V has engaged the 200V battery, and things should be running off of that.
Push once with brake pedal depressed: "Ready" mode. The 200V battery is engaged, and 7 seconds later the internal combustion engine will turn on (earlier than 7 seconds if needed. Non-north american models of the car, and modded north american versions have a switch you can press to make it NOT turn on the engi
Dude.
/hadn't/ gone and done what you did?
Give it up.
I understand your concern, and I commend you on it.
But would you be who you are today if you
Do you really have the right to prevent your children from learning from mistakes they want to make?
I was never coddled as a child, and I'm all the better for it. If we as a species start shielding and coddling our kids from everything that may happen to them, we're going to go stagnant and eventually extinct.
Growing up is about learning and making mistakes and learning from them. Growing up is evolution as the most basic level.
Let them be children, not spoiled brats who have never had so much as a paper-cut.
>I understand your concern, and I commend you on it. /hadn't/ gone and done what you did?
>But would you be who you are today if >you
>Do you really have the right to prevent your >children from learning from mistakes they want to make?
.
I agree with everything you said. I suppose I am just concerned with the extreme (things I didn't see/do because it wasn't available to me) and want to prevent only those things. I already assume t8he space above my garage will be where my son (who's 4 now) will hide to smoke pot when he is older. Even though I never have smoked pot, I know it's something he might get exposed to and do. I want to prevent this, but not going to go ape shit if he does. I'll simply counsel him about it. Other things like ogrish.com I'd rather him not see until he has developed a realistic view on life, or he turns 18, whichever comes first. Scat porn, I don't ever want him to see until he is 18, if he chooses. Again, though, this stuff won't be drama-inducing family episodes if he finds them, just something I want to prevent. Finally, on topic, I will know that he went to a remote field with his girlfriend, but won't even mention it to him. He'll know I know and that I encourage it in some way. But he will also know that I will know if he drives to Cincinnati the night he said he was staying with a friend. If he want sot go to Cincinnati, he can ask, and I'll likely let him. But if he is not allowed, the GPS will keep him honest. Like the old saying "a lock keeps an honest man honest" then "a GPS makes a good kid good." Draconian threats if he strays? Hell no, that's more destructive than no parenting at all. But a "hey, buddy, we gotta talk about that trip to Cinci" will be in order, exploring why he thought he couldn't' just ask me, why he thought if I said no that it wasn't for a good reason, which I will give him, etc...
So, I agree with everything you said, and just want to clarify that I think the GPS will allow me to 'parent' him more effectively. True, many will use it to spy on their kids, to control them, but again, that's destructive. He will learn that he can make unplanned diversions form the path he told me initially he would take. And I wont' ask about them unless he starts getting into trouble.
OJ
"Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity."