I consider PHP, Python, Perl, html, xml, Java, Cold Fusion, ASP, etc... all web languages, protocals or scripting, whatever you wish to call it,
Some of that is website specific, but a lot isn't. Java is useful for a lot of back end stuff, partially due to it's rich error handling - faults are usually obvious. Python is just another scripting language, and it works well for the sorts of things that scripts are good at.
unless I teach myself, the training is just to expensive for me
Who needs training? Learn it , then use it on a small project to find the gaps in your knowledge and also to see where it's appropriate. That's the best way to get things done, anyway. If you get stuck, ask questions.
So how much income have you lost because of that "learning curve"? That is my point.
None. That's the cost of bringing a new guy up to speed. My education was not intended to be vocational, but rather allow me great flexibility in my career. It has done this quite well: I can easily pick up new things, and that's almost always necessary when changing companies anyway. That is my point.
No. I'm not confusing anything here. Do you think that every college student should train at both a college and a trade school before they get their degree?
No, a college student should be able to pick up the details of what he needs for a specific job, especially an entry level job.
The mainframe environment is considerably different from the usual PC/workstation/cluster environment encountered in college at a theoretic and technical level.
It is identical at the theoretic level and differs only in architecture and implementation. It's complex, but that's why you don't get really good pay your first few years.
If the jobs are there (ie, if this niche is large enough), then someone ought to be preparing people for that environment.
Someone is. I went to RPI, never even saw a mainframe terminal, and I can go work on a mainframe. There's a learning curve, but that's to be expected.
If companies are hiring a significant number of people based on mainframe experience, then it's in some college's interest to teach that.
You're confusing college with a trade school. If the colleges have done their job, then companies who want mainframe devs can train new grads in the specifics.
Given some of the egregious spelling and grammer errors that I see here on/., to say nothing of the flaming and religious wars, we geeks are at least partially responsible for that viewpoint of upper management.
Are you implying that upper management can spell, or that they don't have flamewars? From what I've seen, they do just as much as we do, they just do it somewhere else.
Every second order control system has at at least two inputs and one output
I was more intersted in how this 'external reference' was necessary for a society. We are not a negative feedback loop. Rather, we are a bit more complex.
In the same way, the One who esablished the "laws of nature" also established the "laws of life", as succinctly expressed in the Ten Commandments. Those laws were further condensed by Jesus by the law of love. Simply put it is: Treat others as you wish to be treated and don't do anything to someone else that you would not want done to you.
There is no God, and the ten commandments conflate religious instruction with laws necessary for a stable society.
. If you, like I, have ever broken any of these ten or the summary thereof as given by Jesus, you will have to face the penalty, with God as your Judge.
What's that got to do with the founding fathers? Most of them weren't even Christian.
By the way, if you have ever broken a natural law, I'd really like to know.
what if they can only solve complex differential equations in their heads after recieving the adrenalin rush of murdering people in a grizzly, macabre fashion?
Then you should introduce them to these cool things called computers.
You have a nerd. He's smart. He wants to do what he wants to do, and what he wants to do is almost never go through the bug-list and fix bugs. He wants to do new and clever things which may or may not be of any value to anybody but the nerd.
You have another nerd. He wants to fix all the borken parts of his application, but he never gets the time. Instead, his boss makes him add pointless features that are only useful to the guys selling the app (not the actual users, mind). Meanwhile, the users are pissed because all the bugs make it hard to get work done.
Actually, the writers of the founding documents, from the Decaration of Independence on, made many references to the Judeo-Christian God.
No it does not. It makes references to 'Nature's God', which is closer to 'Great Spirit' than the Judeo Christian God.
Any engineer dealing with control systems knows that an EXTERNAL unchangeable reference value must be established against which all the variables of the system are measured and adjusted.
Care to cite this one? Sounds more like your personal belief with some borrowed clothing.
If a custommer is indeed screwed by AOL, take them to small claims court and get your 1500 bucks out of them, problem solved and I have some money to pay for my inconvienience.
Yes, because big companies pay attention when a few dozen people sue them in small claims court. Face it, refusing to terminate service is illegal, or should be.
But then the wealth created by the idea goes to the venture capitalist - i.e. to whoever had some money lying around, instead of whoever had a good idea and worked hard.
If you have enough funding to make it work without capital, or with limited capital, then by all means do so. You could also adopt a strategy whereby you develop one idea into a viable company, then use the experience and capital you gain to self-fund your next ventures.
The cost for the consumer (or even ease for the consumer) is irrelevant.
The cost to the user is the only thing maintaining MS' monopoly - if they ditch MS, they have to either maintain compatibility with Word docs, both internally and externally or get everybody to use something else. They also have to rewrite/port all their custom apps that run only on MS platforms.
Saying that something behaves in a way consistent with a model is a far, far cry from saying that in actuality it happened this way.
For instance, evolutionary theory desscribes a model that matches how things work and continues to match as new evidence comes to light. When new evidence shows up that doesn't match, the theory must change. ID is different: it tells you how it happened while offering no model or testable hypothesis to explain it. Given the choice, I'll take the theory - at least it has a chance at being right.
Shhh... You can't mention Adam Smith to these guys.
Are you by chance referring to me? I happen to like what Adam Smith has said regarding wealth. Too bad that the current administration seems more intent on handing out welfare than spuring actual growth.
Second, Who cares what the rest of the world does? I did not vote for their leaders, nor they
the united states. They have no say in our government and we should have none in theirs.
Go tell that to your government. The US has been fucking with other governments for 60+ years, and people like bin Laden and Saddam and places like Vietnam are its legacy.
Slashdot Mirror
However, the "Freak Squad" simply is correct.
That was a great episode of Star Trek: TNG. But was that ripped off of a book or something?
The original version was more compelling - 5 lights is within the realm of possibility, but 5 fingers is generally not.
I consider PHP, Python, Perl, html, xml, Java, Cold Fusion, ASP, etc... all web languages, protocals or scripting, whatever you wish to call it,
Some of that is website specific, but a lot isn't. Java is useful for a lot of back end stuff, partially due to it's rich error handling - faults are usually obvious. Python is just another scripting language, and it works well for the sorts of things that scripts are good at.
unless I teach myself, the training is just to expensive for me
Who needs training? Learn it , then use it on a small project to find the gaps in your knowledge and also to see where it's appropriate. That's the best way to get things done, anyway. If you get stuck, ask questions.
So how much income have you lost because of that "learning curve"? That is my point.
None. That's the cost of bringing a new guy up to speed. My education was not intended to be vocational, but rather allow me great flexibility in my career. It has done this quite well: I can easily pick up new things, and that's almost always necessary when changing companies anyway. That is my point.
No. I'm not confusing anything here. Do you think that every college student should train at both a college and a trade school before they get their degree?
No, a college student should be able to pick up the details of what he needs for a specific job, especially an entry level job.
The mainframe environment is considerably different from the usual PC/workstation/cluster environment encountered in college at a theoretic and technical level.
It is identical at the theoretic level and differs only in architecture and implementation. It's complex, but that's why you don't get really good pay your first few years.
If the jobs are there (ie, if this niche is large enough), then someone ought to be preparing people for that environment.
Someone is. I went to RPI, never even saw a mainframe terminal, and I can go work on a mainframe. There's a learning curve, but that's to be expected.
If companies are hiring a significant number of people based on mainframe experience, then it's in some college's interest to teach that.
You're confusing college with a trade school. If the colleges have done their job, then companies who want mainframe devs can train new grads in the specifics.
I can do 5 or 6 (no web languages though)
What's a 'web language'? Is that what the old people call Java?
Then you don't know jack about the hiring process these days.
What's that got to do with college? Just because HR has their heads up their asses doesn't mean colleges must follow suit.
No one seems to value the guy who can figure it all out. All they're interested in seems to be specific.
Gimme your resume, then we can talk.
Given some of the egregious spelling and grammer errors that I see here on /., to say nothing of the flaming and religious wars, we geeks are at least partially responsible for that viewpoint of upper management.
Are you implying that upper management can spell, or that they don't have flamewars? From what I've seen, they do just as much as we do, they just do it somewhere else.
Every second order control system has at at least two inputs and one output
I was more intersted in how this 'external reference' was necessary for a society. We are not a negative feedback loop. Rather, we are a bit more complex.
In the same way, the One who esablished the "laws of nature" also established the "laws of life", as succinctly expressed in the Ten Commandments. Those laws were further condensed by Jesus by the law of love. Simply put it is: Treat others as you wish to be treated and don't do anything to someone else that you would not want done to you.
There is no God, and the ten commandments conflate religious instruction with laws necessary for a stable society.
. If you, like I, have ever broken any of these ten or the summary thereof as given by Jesus, you will have to face the penalty, with God as your Judge.
What's that got to do with the founding fathers? Most of them weren't even Christian.
By the way, if you have ever broken a natural law, I'd really like to know.
what if they can only solve complex differential equations in their heads after recieving the adrenalin rush of murdering people in a grizzly, macabre fashion?
Then you should introduce them to these cool things called computers.
You have a nerd. He's smart. He wants to do what he wants to do, and what he wants to do is almost never go through the bug-list and fix bugs. He wants to do new and clever things which may or may not be of any value to anybody but the nerd.
You have another nerd. He wants to fix all the borken parts of his application, but he never gets the time. Instead, his boss makes him add pointless features that are only useful to the guys selling the app (not the actual users, mind). Meanwhile, the users are pissed because all the bugs make it hard to get work done.
Actually, the writers of the founding documents, from the Decaration of Independence on, made many references to the Judeo-Christian God.
No it does not. It makes references to 'Nature's God', which is closer to 'Great Spirit' than the Judeo Christian God.
Any engineer dealing with control systems knows that an EXTERNAL unchangeable reference value must be established against which all the variables of the system are measured and adjusted.
Care to cite this one? Sounds more like your personal belief with some borrowed clothing.
If a custommer is indeed screwed by AOL, take them to small claims court and get your 1500 bucks out of them, problem solved and I have some money to pay for my inconvienience.
Yes, because big companies pay attention when a few dozen people sue them in small claims court. Face it, refusing to terminate service is illegal, or should be.
Will there be friggin sharks on them too?
Who needs a shark when you've got a veritech?
Kids today...
But then the wealth created by the idea goes to the venture capitalist - i.e. to whoever had some money lying around, instead of whoever had a good idea and worked hard.
If you have enough funding to make it work without capital, or with limited capital, then by all means do so. You could also adopt a strategy whereby you develop one idea into a viable company, then use the experience and capital you gain to self-fund your next ventures.
The cost for the consumer (or even ease for the consumer) is irrelevant.
The cost to the user is the only thing maintaining MS' monopoly - if they ditch MS, they have to either maintain compatibility with Word docs, both internally and externally or get everybody to use something else. They also have to rewrite/port all their custom apps that run only on MS platforms.
Yes. Google is FAR more powerful.
You're missing the point: you can't monopolize the search engine when the only barrier to entry is getting people to change a bookmark.
How about turning the idea into code, relasing it as Open Source and selling service?
How about turning the idea into a business plan, writing a proposal, and getting some venture capital?
We've come a loooong way haven't we?
"I have been to the top of the mountain, and it is too damn cold. Come, let us gather together and burn books for warmth."
Saying that something behaves in a way consistent with a model is a far, far cry from saying that in actuality it happened this way.
For instance, evolutionary theory desscribes a model that matches how things work and continues to match as new evidence comes to light. When new evidence shows up that doesn't match, the theory must change. ID is different: it tells you how it happened while offering no model or testable hypothesis to explain it. Given the choice, I'll take the theory - at least it has a chance at being right.
Shhh... You can't mention Adam Smith to these guys.
Are you by chance referring to me? I happen to like what Adam Smith has said regarding wealth. Too bad that the current administration seems more intent on handing out welfare than spuring actual growth.
We've created a microwave gun attached to a truck. I consider these to be both science and technology.
That's engineering. Besides, how does cooking a bunch of protestors improve my quality of life?
Person: Really? Whenever I try to print from Microsoft, the thingy sounds like that commercial. Can you fix it tonight during supper?
Me: No, I'll be eating.
Second, Who cares what the rest of the world does? I did not vote for their leaders, nor they the united states. They have no say in our government and we should have none in theirs.
Go tell that to your government. The US has been fucking with other governments for 60+ years, and people like bin Laden and Saddam and places like Vietnam are its legacy.