Be has stated that they don't want to compete with linux, they want to work with the linux community, but the hardline OSS advocates turn their backs every time. Funny isn't that a company which provides a lot of gnu tools as standard parts of its OS and wants to help its OS and Linux work VERY WELL together gets pushed away by the hardline linux advocates because the company isn't making an OSS product. With attitudes like that OSS will start collapsing because too many companies will find it in their best interests to work against OSS and try to crush it. Never underestimate the power of corporate america. Corporate america didn't get so rich and powerful because it say on its ass. All it will take is for Apple and M$ to crush any attempt at linux on the desktop, Sun to swoop in with a somewhat faster solaris for the servers and sgi, apple or be to come in with the multimedia/graphics OS. Just because it is free in no way guarantees it success, if it did then who the hell would use NT for a server instead of linux or freebsd?
They refuse to hack g3 support for the following official and unofficial reasons: -they said that unless they get technical specs from apple they won't add support because they think hacking support won't provide as much quality -intel gave them lots of money and a bunch of nice engineers to help them. apple gave them the cold shoulder and tried to kill them -most mac users aren't even aware that they even have a choice of OS's
Let M$ throw money at the wind on stupid things like this. Who would use Kaffe when they could get the real mccoy from Sun for free as well, which is the only source for Swing which has begun to replace the AWT.
All it will take is for Sony to make a small subsidary in europe, ship the PSX2's to europe then off to china. Besides who honestly thinks that countries like france wouldn't sell that kind of stuff to the chinese.
It would be funny as hell to get some really good server software on BeOS and watch the 2 brawl over the title for server for dummies. I think BeOS would win since it is faster, more stable and costs much less (the average joe can easily afford it). Of course M$ also has to deal with MacOS X server which could be a really big NT killer. Cheers and leave enough of M$ left for every OS's advocates to get a souvenire!
You need to reread the 1st ammendment, it says that the media and private citizens are no longer protected when they commit libel. He commited libel therefore the constitution says that he has lost his 1st ammendment protection on this one
Be wouldn't want M$ Office because that would hurt GOBE which has been there for Be since day 1 and GOBE Productive makes better use of BeOS than Office does on a Mac (of course it would take full advantage of windows). Besides Be has made it known many times that it supports the OSS movement. If Be is so willing to sellout then why are they paying duncan wilcox to work fulltime on Bezilla while they have scott barta working on NetPositive?
Face it, it doesn't matter really if the majority of the current linux users boycotte redhat. RH is getting contracts that no other vendor is getting.... like ones with Compaq and Dell. If they get HP and maybe Gateway walking lockstep as well.... do you honestly think the OEMs will be interested in other distro's? No..... because most OEM's wouldn't see any point. Sure slackware and debian will be around, but how long will COL and suse last if RH gets exclusive contracts with basically every OEM and becomes the only name that linux newbies know? OSS doesn't prevent monopolies, it just takers longer to get a monopoly in an OSS world.
Scot was talking about the average joe, non-computer wizkid who just wants to play around. The average person could care a less because the average person doesn't know anything about writing code. What good does the source do if the user of the computer can't make use of it, as is the case of the average joe. All it does is eat up disk space. You can talk about the advantages of OSS all you want (and there are plenty if you are a programmer) but what does it offer the person who just wants to listen to mp3z, do some word processing, play a few games, surf the net and shutdown their computer? Then answer is.... nothing.
BeOS r5 could actually be more a threat for M$ than Linux because r5 will specifically target desktop and workstation aggressively and by r5 there will already be a hell of a lot of hardware support for BeOS and already there are a lot of high end appz (audio and video) being ported to BeOS. Personally I don't see linux getting into the desktop market. It's not that the average user is stupid.... they are just too lazy to learn anything slightly technical. The best bet for taking down M$ is pushing for Linux in the servers and BeOS on the desktop/workstation. My parents are typical computer users, they can barely use windows and if they can barely use windows Linux will be a nightmare. Besides the whole distro war will REALLY confuse first time computer users and newbies.
BeOS comes with a port of gcc and all the tools you need to start making BeOS apps come for free with the OS. A huge chunk of BeOS apps come with the source code. BeOS has all the makings of a next generation home OS and workstation OS and Be is always trying to make it flexible enough so that it doesn't get stuck in one area. Supposedly Be has been able to get the basic parts of BeOS to where they are small enough to work in embedded systems without changing the code much if any. Remember too that every generation of BeOS is faster than the previous. r4 was faster than r3, r4.5 will be faster than r4 and Be is will be working on making r5 faster than r4.5
RH markets and pushes for a big name much more than Caldera. It isn't surprising that they are getting all the big contracts because aggressive marketing is how M$ crushed apple with Win95. I don't want to be flamed about this please, I am just pointing out that RH is always out front making sure that people know who they are and what they do. Also since RH has the most users it would make more since to work with rh, but they should shoot for general linux compatability.
You're wrong on that one. in an ideal world the open source advocates would be realistic and realize that the average mom and pop will never be able to use linux and that if you insist on linux or nothing then the average joe will choose nothing.
there were 2 sub directories besides . and.. in the directory I was testing. Maybe it is something specific with my system then, but it said that . and.. were directories and that the sub directories were text files.
ActivePerl doesn't even always work right. My copy (build 517) returns "text file" if I use the -d test on a variable that has a file name as its value. But the same test returns "directory" for . and..
Don't worry people, with shoddy programming like this...... activeperl won't last very long! I just wish that someone would get all the features in BePerl working correctly.
How many distros do we need? Only 5-10 distros are needed for competition. Everytime a distro is added the linux market gets fragmented a little more. I can't personally see linux on every desktop, for that matter most of the desktops. In an ideal world Linux would have 100% of the server market and 50% of the workstation market. BeOS would have the other 50% of the workstation market and 100% of the home market and a stripped down version of BeOS would be used in all embedded devices. Oh and a suped up version of linux would be used for stuff like the military's networks, embedded systems, etc. The tank and flying batmobile work so well together and victory over the facists @ M$ and Apple can only be achieved if the linux and beos users work together.
I can't even get adsl or cable where I live, and isdn is $1 per hour from gte!!! Why the hell would I care about bell atlantic having a 1.6gb network when the lamers @ the phone companies won't extend adsl and cable service to small and medium sized towns like mine? I hope bob goodlatte's internet freedom act gets through, we virginians need it since GTE is too stingy and greedy to give us decent adsl service. Better yet, why not let AT&T buy GTE, Bell Atlantic and all other phone companes and make AT&T roll out cheap cable service like it is already doing in big cities!! My parents tell me that they paid lower rates on phone calls before that AT&T antitrust case than they do now. I say fuck antitrust laws
I know that I will be flamed for this statement, but Linux in its current form doesn't have what it takes to beat windows at its own game, the home market and especially among newbies. Linux is great for hackers, sysadmins and the like but it is too hard for the average family to use. The linux community will have to sell its soul to get the support it needs for this market. BeOS is much better for the home market because it is fast, stable, easy to use and takes no time to get used to. Be is very linux friendly and will not position BeOS to compete against linux unless Linux tries to move into the home and workstation markets, especially the multimedia market. I have used both Linux and BeOS and BeOS is far better for newbies than any OS on the market. Lack of hardware support for BeOS is largely a misnomer now as it supports tnt, 99% of all ati, neomagic and a few other graphic cards, pretty much all sound blaster cards, all new ensoniq cards, aureal cards, basically all non-usb/non-winmodems and a huge chunk of the scsi card market. It usually lacks support for very specialized stuff like wacom pads. Personally my only personal bone of contention with Linux is that it is so slow compared to BeOS. BeOS boots in about 6-8 seconds and when I had linux installed it took about 20 seconds to start the cli and about 10 seconds to start X/Enlightenment/GNOME. It took that long on a PII 450 with 128mb of ram.
Let's face it, M$ will lose to linux in the server market and possibly in the workstation, but forget it in the home market. That is where BeOS will come in. BeOS is very easy to use and install especially for the clueless newbies. What we need now is for a full port of gcc to Win32 and to get the BeOS port of egcs up to date. Anyone who has used BeOS on a supported system knows just how fast it would rip windows's head off if the hardware support and # of software are equal. Can you see a true clueless newbie (the other 95% of the population) trying to 1. recompile something, even a text editor 2. configuring lilo 3. messing around with config files and shell scripts I can't.
BeOS may not use unix code, but it is mostly posix compliant and Be is shooting for full compliance in r5. While Mac's may have MacOS X as their next generation consumer OS (the client), the PC platform has BeOS which has all the basic features of good unices like smp, pre-emptive multitasking, protected memory, gnu tools (almost if not all of them). Right now on a technological scale Windows can only compete with BeOS in 3d acceleration because BeOS doesn't support it yet. However VERY soon when r4.5 comes out there will be 3d acceleration for those of us who took the plunge to install the flying batmobile (BeOS).
They lost billions in potential revenues. The same argument could be made that columbian drug cartels lose potential revenue whenever local gangs like the bloods and crips start selling drugs.
How can I, a teen almost 16 year olds, afford photoshop? I have used gimp before and I am not all that impressed with the exception of net-fu. I bought my copy of BeOS r4 at full price, but I got a friend to burn me a copy of NT (NT's own installer couldn't find the fucking partition it had prepared!!!!). That didn't cost M$ anything. They didn't lose money on it. They didn't have to pay for packaging, etc. R&D maybe, but considering the fact that M$ spends so little on R&D I doubt they would miss $300 when they have around a 40-60% growth rate in sales and they are already making $6.4 billion on office 97, and that doesn't even count Windows, VC++, VB, Project, etc!!! Oh and when I get my laptop this summer I will call Be and talk to them about buying another license for BeOS, something which I would never even consider doing with Windows.
Slashdot Mirror
Be has stated that they don't want to compete with linux, they want to work with the linux community, but the hardline OSS advocates turn their backs every time. Funny isn't that a company which provides a lot of gnu tools as standard parts of its OS and wants to help its OS and Linux work VERY WELL together gets pushed away by the hardline linux advocates because the company isn't making an OSS product. With attitudes like that OSS will start collapsing because too many companies will find it in their best interests to work against OSS and try to crush it. Never underestimate the power of corporate america. Corporate america didn't get so rich and powerful because it say on its ass. All it will take is for Apple and M$ to crush any attempt at linux on the desktop, Sun to swoop in with a somewhat faster solaris for the servers and sgi, apple or be to come in with the multimedia/graphics OS. Just because it is free in no way guarantees it success, if it did then who the hell would use NT for a server instead of linux or freebsd?
They refuse to hack g3 support for the following official and unofficial reasons:
-they said that unless they get technical specs from apple they won't add support because they think hacking support won't provide as much quality
-intel gave them lots of money and a bunch of nice engineers to help them. apple gave them the cold shoulder and tried to kill them
-most mac users aren't even aware that they even have a choice of OS's
Let M$ throw money at the wind on stupid things like this. Who would use Kaffe when they could get the real mccoy from Sun for free as well, which is the only source for Swing which has begun to replace the AWT.
All it will take is for Sony to make a small subsidary in europe, ship the PSX2's to europe then off to china. Besides who honestly thinks that countries like france wouldn't sell that kind of stuff to the chinese.
It would be funny as hell to get some really good server software on BeOS and watch the 2 brawl over the title for server for dummies. I think BeOS would win since it is faster, more stable and costs much less (the average joe can easily afford it). Of course M$ also has to deal with MacOS X server which could be a really big NT killer. Cheers and leave enough of M$ left for every OS's advocates to get a souvenire!
You need to reread the 1st ammendment, it says that the media and private citizens are no longer protected when they commit libel. He commited libel therefore the constitution says that he has lost his 1st ammendment protection on this one
Be wouldn't want M$ Office because that would hurt GOBE which has been there for Be since day 1 and GOBE Productive makes better use of BeOS than Office does on a Mac (of course it would take full advantage of windows). Besides Be has made it known many times that it supports the OSS movement. If Be is so willing to sellout then why are they paying duncan wilcox to work fulltime on Bezilla while they have scott barta working on NetPositive?
The demo cd is only about $10 including s&h I believe.
Maybe unices needs to be rewritten for modern hardware and technologies, but if unix dies then many people may end up stuck with *GASP* windows
Face it, it doesn't matter really if the majority of the current linux users boycotte redhat. RH is getting contracts that no other vendor is getting.... like ones with Compaq and Dell. If they get HP and maybe Gateway walking lockstep as well.... do you honestly think the OEMs will be interested in other distro's? No..... because most OEM's wouldn't see any point. Sure slackware and debian will be around, but how long will COL and suse last if RH gets exclusive contracts with basically every OEM and becomes the only name that linux newbies know? OSS doesn't prevent monopolies, it just takers longer to get a monopoly in an OSS world.
Scot was talking about the average joe, non-computer wizkid who just wants to play around. The average person could care a less because the average person doesn't know anything about writing code. What good does the source do if the user of the computer can't make use of it, as is the case of the average joe. All it does is eat up disk space. You can talk about the advantages of OSS all you want (and there are plenty if you are a programmer) but what does it offer the person who just wants to listen to mp3z, do some word processing, play a few games, surf the net and shutdown their computer? Then answer is.... nothing.
BeOS r5 could actually be more a threat for M$ than Linux because r5 will specifically target desktop and workstation aggressively and by r5 there will already be a hell of a lot of hardware support for BeOS and already there are a lot of high end appz (audio and video) being ported to BeOS. Personally I don't see linux getting into the desktop market. It's not that the average user is stupid.... they are just too lazy to learn anything slightly technical. The best bet for taking down M$ is pushing for Linux in the servers and BeOS on the desktop/workstation. My parents are typical computer users, they can barely use windows and if they can barely use windows Linux will be a nightmare. Besides the whole distro war will REALLY confuse first time computer users and newbies.
BeOS comes with a port of gcc and all the tools you need to start making BeOS apps come for free with the OS. A huge chunk of BeOS apps come with the source code. BeOS has all the makings of a next generation home OS and workstation OS and Be is always trying to make it flexible enough so that it doesn't get stuck in one area. Supposedly Be has been able to get the basic parts of BeOS to where they are small enough to work in embedded systems without changing the code much if any. Remember too that every generation of BeOS is faster than the previous. r4 was faster than r3, r4.5 will be faster than r4 and Be is will be working on making r5 faster than r4.5
RH markets and pushes for a big name much more than Caldera. It isn't surprising that they are getting all the big contracts because aggressive marketing is how M$ crushed apple with Win95. I don't want to be flamed about this please, I am just pointing out that RH is always out front making sure that people know who they are and what they do. Also since RH has the most users it would make more since to work with rh, but they should shoot for general linux compatability.
You're wrong on that one.
in an ideal world the open source advocates would be realistic and realize that the average mom and pop will never be able to use linux and that if you insist on linux or nothing then the average joe will choose nothing.
JediScript?
there were 2 sub directories besides . and .. in the directory I was testing. Maybe it is something specific with my system then, but it said that . and .. were directories and that the sub directories were text files.
ActivePerl doesn't even always work right. My copy (build 517) returns "text file" if I use the -d test on a variable that has a file name as its value. But the same test returns "directory" for . and ..
Don't worry people, with shoddy programming like this...... activeperl won't last very long! I just wish that someone would get all the features in BePerl working correctly.
How many distros do we need? Only 5-10 distros are needed for competition. Everytime a distro is added the linux market gets fragmented a little more. I can't personally see linux on every desktop, for that matter most of the desktops. In an ideal world Linux would have 100% of the server market and 50% of the workstation market. BeOS would have the other 50% of the workstation market and 100% of the home market and a stripped down version of BeOS would be used in all embedded devices. Oh and a suped up version of linux would be used for stuff like the military's networks, embedded systems, etc. The tank and flying batmobile work so well together and victory over the facists @ M$ and Apple can only be achieved if the linux and beos users work together.
I can't even get adsl or cable where I live, and isdn is $1 per hour from gte!!! Why the hell would I care about bell atlantic having a 1.6gb network when the lamers @ the phone companies won't extend adsl and cable service to small and medium sized towns like mine? I hope bob goodlatte's internet freedom act gets through, we virginians need it since GTE is too stingy and greedy to give us decent adsl service. Better yet, why not let AT&T buy GTE, Bell Atlantic and all other phone companes and make AT&T roll out cheap cable service like it is already doing in big cities!! My parents tell me that they paid lower rates on phone calls before that AT&T antitrust case than they do now. I say fuck antitrust laws
I know that I will be flamed for this statement, but Linux in its current form doesn't have what it takes to beat windows at its own game, the home market and especially among newbies. Linux is great for hackers, sysadmins and the like but it is too hard for the average family to use. The linux community will have to sell its soul to get the support it needs for this market. BeOS is much better for the home market because it is fast, stable, easy to use and takes no time to get used to. Be is very linux friendly and will not position BeOS to compete against linux unless Linux tries to move into the home and workstation markets, especially the multimedia market. I have used both Linux and BeOS and BeOS is far better for newbies than any OS on the market. Lack of hardware support for BeOS is largely a misnomer now as it supports tnt, 99% of all ati, neomagic and a few other graphic cards, pretty much all sound blaster cards, all new ensoniq cards, aureal cards, basically all non-usb/non-winmodems and a huge chunk of the scsi card market. It usually lacks support for very specialized stuff like wacom pads. Personally my only personal bone of contention with Linux is that it is so slow compared to BeOS. BeOS boots in about 6-8 seconds and when I had linux installed it took about 20 seconds to start the cli and about 10 seconds to start X/Enlightenment/GNOME. It took that long on a PII 450 with 128mb of ram.
Let's face it, M$ will lose to linux in the server market and possibly in the workstation, but forget it in the home market. That is where BeOS will come in. BeOS is very easy to use and install especially for the clueless newbies. What we need now is for a full port of gcc to Win32 and to get the BeOS port of egcs up to date. Anyone who has used BeOS on a supported system knows just how fast it would rip windows's head off if the hardware support and # of software are equal. Can you see a true clueless newbie (the other 95% of the population) trying to
1. recompile something, even a text editor
2. configuring lilo
3. messing around with config files and shell scripts
I can't.
BeOS may not use unix code, but it is mostly posix compliant and Be is shooting for full compliance in r5. While Mac's may have MacOS X as their next generation consumer OS (the client), the PC platform has BeOS which has all the basic features of good unices like smp, pre-emptive multitasking, protected memory, gnu tools (almost if not all of them). Right now on a technological scale Windows can only compete with BeOS in 3d acceleration because BeOS doesn't support it yet. However VERY soon when r4.5 comes out there will be 3d acceleration for those of us who took the plunge to install the flying batmobile (BeOS).
They lost billions in potential revenues. The same argument could be made that columbian drug cartels lose potential revenue whenever local gangs like the bloods and crips start selling drugs.
How can I, a teen almost 16 year olds, afford photoshop? I have used gimp before and I am not all that impressed with the exception of net-fu. I bought my copy of BeOS r4 at full price, but I got a friend to burn me a copy of NT (NT's own installer couldn't find the fucking partition it had prepared!!!!). That didn't cost M$ anything. They didn't lose money on it. They didn't have to pay for packaging, etc. R&D maybe, but considering the fact that M$ spends so little on R&D I doubt they would miss $300 when they have around a 40-60% growth rate in sales and they are already making $6.4 billion on office 97, and that doesn't even count Windows, VC++, VB, Project, etc!!! Oh and when I get my laptop this summer I will call Be and talk to them about buying another license for BeOS, something which I would never even consider doing with Windows.