Sony DOES think they can do compatibility with emulation because they're doing it. They have already achieved over 90% compatibility with the many thousands of PS2 and PS1 titles. Many of the titles that don't work, are unpopular games. But even games on their compatibility list with only one "box" run allright.
You can't compare the Xbox "emulation." It's not the same thing. The PS3 is similar enough to the PS1/2 that it can emulate. The 360 doesn't; it can't emulate a 733Mhz P3 fast enough. The games that run, run via recompiled binaries and support files. If the game isn't on the (very short) list, it won't run, period, because they're no emulation going on. When you download an "emulation profile" you're downloading a new version of the game.
Plus, the original PS3 with the extra chips isn't perfect either, but it's damned good. In the end, Sony has been providing continual updates to the software emulator and this isn't likely to change. They'll keep improving the software as they have been since release.
Besides. If it were THAT important to have absolute 100% compatibility (even though that's almost never been achieved with any other product ever) then maybe you should consider grabbing a PS2 on e-bay for like $40.
No. The Wii is 100% hardware compatible with the Game Cube. It's got all the same parts, except that they're faster. Perhaps the new CPU has a few new features, but it's the same. The GPU is compatible. In fact, if you could, a Wii game would play on a GameCube, albiet a little slower. (only a couple months before launch, all the demo games and booths were powered by Game Cubes.)
And yea, the Xbox 360 DOES have more in common with the Game Cube then the original Xbox, which is why Xbox game compatibility on the 360 sucks ass. In fact, the 360 basically uses re-compiled binaries you can download to run the games on the 360, because the 360 CPU is not nearly fast enough to emulate a 733Mhz Pentium III in it's entirety.
The Wii *is a game cube.* The Atari 7800 was *almost* compatible with all 2600 games (not 100%) and the PS2 absolutely did NOT play every PS1 game perfectly. I don't own nor have I read much about any of the game boy units, so I can't really say much there (except that GB games, until the DS, were fairly simple machines.)
Minor issues on a game are just that, MINOR issues. You probably won't notice them. "Noticeable Issues" are some graphics glitches and such, that do NOT affect game play in any way.
You're being entirely too picky, and it's because you're a FAN BOY. Admit it! Well, okay, maybe you're not a fan boy - you're an ANTI-FAN BOY. You're a Fan Boy of the PS3 in the opposite sense.
We just purchased two quad-socket dual-core opteron machines with 32GB ram to run VMware on.
When you're running a lot of VM's on your hosts, you can go with Intel because they have more marketing power, or you can go with AMD because they perform much better in cpu/memory intensive SMP applications.
Yea, the extra compatibility just won't matter; if they had the emulation up as good as it is now when they released the PS3 originally, I don't figure any PS3 would have included that extra hardware. They do keep improving the compatibility with updates; the last major update (1.80) included a number of fixes. With the track record so far with PS3 updates, I expect to see more improvements in the near term.
I think a lot of folks mustn't realize how easy it is to replace the hard drive in the PS3. There's a slot on the side you can open, and yank the disk right out. Put in the new one, and the PS3 will tell you it needs to be formatted. Done. And the cool thing is that you can plug in a USB hard drive first, back up all your data, upgrade the drive, and restore everything back on. Cool stuff.
Alternatively, you can just plug in an external USB drive and use that to store all your images, music, and videos.
You just don't have the numbers right. Microsoft has sold only about 10 million 360's. Nintendo has sold less consoles then that, and the PS3 behind that. However, Sony sold 120+ million Playstation 2 units. So, they really don't need to get people that own an Xbox 360 to buy a PS3. There's plenty more customers out there to be had. They want to compete with games and features, but they don't need to woo existing console owners.
The retail market.. does it matter anymore? Why cares? Most titles will still be available at the stores; at least until the PS4 and Xbox 1080 come out. Accessories and systems will still be at stores. Should we ignore the fact that the Internet exists because some guy wants to keep his EB games store in business? It's called progress. If I can download a game to the hard drive and run it from there, faster and better then a disc, then that's what I'll do. Valve has been using their Steam system for online distribution of full games for some time now, and I don't see anyone losing money over it.
Yea, they could do what PSEmu or Bleem! did with their PS1 emulators. They can add bilinear filtering to PS1 games and Anti-aliasing to both, and increase the screen resolution because it's polygons and you can do that. Of course, they're looking for compatibility, so we're not likely to see those types of improvements any time soon.
As far as I could tell, the PS2 games I've played on my PS3 looked the same as the PS2. Lots of people purchased HD TV's at the same time they purchased PS3's so they might just be shocked over how much better the HD games looked, and it makes the older games look really...old. But, Sony did recently add some filtering to old titles, sort of how MAME or the Nintendo/SNES emulators do it. It makes the games look quite a bit better (but still old school.)
I think the degree of compatibility with the PS3 without the extra chips is very impressive. It seems like only some really odd titles don't work 100%, and old games in series; (like Madden 2001 not being perfect, where 2002, 03, 04 and 05 work fine.) The units with the extra CPU are better, but give them a couple more months and it simply won't matter at all.
You don't have to guess - you yourself just posted their compatibility list. I don't know why it's unacceptable to you that nearly every single PS/PS2 game made in the last decade will run great on a brand new console. It's unprecedented compatibility; more so then any Microsoft OS upgrade has ever provided.
I know it's a real bitch that Madden 2001 plays fine with some graphical glitches. Dammit, I need Celebrity Deathmatch to work PERFECTLY!!! And I just know all the kids want to play NHL '98 like it was dreamed to be.
Backward compatibility is new. Sony was the first company to do it on a game console. They did extremely well with the PS3 in this regard, too. You're just bitching because you want to bitch at something.
It's an overclocked Game Cube with a new controller. Face it. All of the demo units up until WERE game cubes. They did their job well; they convinced millions of people that the Wii is a "Next Generation Console" and sold it for huge profits.
So, it's OKAY for Nintendo to make hand over fist on the Wii console sales, but it's bullshit for Sony to lose less money?
There's nothing especially wrong with either approach, but I can't believe Nintendo sells the Wii for that much money.
No, it's only been that some of the new refurb units have been outfitted with better cooling parts. There's been no indication of NEW units having the "fix." Eventually, they will do this on newly manufactured units, and eventually this will trickle down the retail market.. maybe by 2008.
It's still a month to get it replaced. And it sucks, because there's no guarantee your data will be saved, and the 360 provides no way to back up all your data.
If you own an Xbox, and you don't really want a PS3, then don't buy one and be done with it. $100 more then your budget? You settled on the 360 for whatever reasons, so be happy with that system. It's almost as good at playing games as the PS3.
The compatibility of PS1/2 games on the units without the PS2 chip is very high. They're removing it because A) It's unnecessary cost now that the software emulation is so good, B) Unnecessary complexity of manufacturing C) Unnecessary heat production.... and a myriad of other reasons.
Once the 60GB models are cleared out of inventory, expect to see the 80GB version drop to $500. Maybe they'll have a 120GB version by then, and continue on.
For all the people dropping $300 and $400 for iPods every other year for another 20GB, I don't understand the issue here.
Since when is 90%+ compatible with PS1/2 titles, crippled? Really, you're a fucking dick. Aww, come on. You know you are. Even though they've continued to improve compatibility on the software-emulation PS3's, and even when there ARE problems, they don't generally affect game play. And yet you're still a bitch even though you apparently have no problem with Microsoft's 35% compatibility rate?
Please, go play your XboxWii60, and stay the hell out of the PS3 discussions. You don't own one, you said you wouldn't buy one, so what's the fucking problem?
Be sure that the exclusive content is going to be no big deal, and it will be available for the PS3 as well in the future; in fact they did say they would do different things for the PS3 version. Calling this a selling point for the 360 is ridiculous; it's even more ridiculous then one of those "exclusive for three months" titles both systems have coming.
I wouldn't touch 360, not until I can get one for $100 on e-bay. Warranty, my ass. I want to spend $500 on a piece of equipment that in all likelihood will fail, and then be without it for months until Microsoft (we ARE talking about Microsoft here, don't forget that) gets around to replacing it. Awesome.
The batteries in the SIXAXIS controllers lasts a long time. Yea, I like external batteries because you can replace them when they eventually stop taking a charge, but because there's no rumble pack, the batteries last a long time. I can use my controllers for weeks (granted, I'm not a hard core player) without charging them.
You did mention that you'd have to find the USB cable - which is a good point. Any USB cable with a mini end (same as digital cameras, etc) will work. You can buy a super long cable for peanuts. You can use USB hubs, too.
Get a grip. It's going to be an accessory. I don't see Wii users bitching because their Wii's don't come with the upcoming WiiGun attachment.
Patches on the PS3 are easy because every single one has a hard disk, but besides that, the API's have been there since day one, so a lot of titles actually already support it.
I'm actually not ticked off at all. Rumble is cool, and the original Xbox controllers (the big ones) had a pretty strong rumble which was used well in many titles. But, my PS3 doesn't have it, and I honestly don't really miss it. It will be nice to get some controllers with rumble when they are released, but it's really not that big a deal. The games are still just as fun without it.
Apparently some games already support rumble and will use it when rumble controllers are released. The API's and everything else except the controllers themselves are already in place for developers to use. And, although some games won't get patches, a bunch of other games already have downloadable updates and it doesn't seem like a stretch to think they'll just do it again if they don't have support for rumble.
It's 2007! How come the hottest Microsoft console doesn't have motion sensing controllers? Or Bluetooth? Or flash memory support? Or USB ports? Or hard drives standard? Or Gigabit Ethernet? Or HD-Disc standard? Or HDMI? Or free online play?
You know what? You should stop visiting the site then. While there's plenty of riff-raff, Slashdot posters often have well thought-out and interesting opinions on all sorts of topics.
You've just insulted the entire Slashdot community by being the prick you are, and if you go away, that'll be one less person to bring everyone down.
Ohh you proved me wrong - there's at least five TV's out there that can take 1080p over component.. It's not FUD. Almost no devices accept 1080p over component, never mind the fact that most TV's don't even take it over HDMI.
This is a message board, and I offer my opinions. I believe the size and shape of the Playstation controller to be near perfect for a general purpose controller - almost anyone can use it, big or small, it doesn't cramp your fingers too bad if you play over extended periods (although, like any controller it can depend on the game) it's not too heavy and it's sturdy as hell. I never hear anyone complain about the PS controller style unless they're a YAMB (Yet Another Microsoft Bitch) trying to start shit.
If you think I'm "presenting as fact" something that obviously COULDN'T be (the idea, by it's very nature, is an opinion even if it were to be shared by 100% of people you polled) then I don't know what to say except perhaps that you might grow up a little bit.
Slashdot Mirror
Sony DOES think they can do compatibility with emulation because they're doing it. They have already achieved over 90% compatibility with the many thousands of PS2 and PS1 titles. Many of the titles that don't work, are unpopular games. But even games on their compatibility list with only one "box" run allright.
You can't compare the Xbox "emulation." It's not the same thing. The PS3 is similar enough to the PS1/2 that it can emulate. The 360 doesn't; it can't emulate a 733Mhz P3 fast enough. The games that run, run via recompiled binaries and support files. If the game isn't on the (very short) list, it won't run, period, because they're no emulation going on. When you download an "emulation profile" you're downloading a new version of the game.
Plus, the original PS3 with the extra chips isn't perfect either, but it's damned good. In the end, Sony has been providing continual updates to the software emulator and this isn't likely to change. They'll keep improving the software as they have been since release.
Besides. If it were THAT important to have absolute 100% compatibility (even though that's almost never been achieved with any other product ever) then maybe you should consider grabbing a PS2 on e-bay for like $40.
No. The Wii is 100% hardware compatible with the Game Cube. It's got all the same parts, except that they're faster. Perhaps the new CPU has a few new features, but it's the same. The GPU is compatible. In fact, if you could, a Wii game would play on a GameCube, albiet a little slower. (only a couple months before launch, all the demo games and booths were powered by Game Cubes.)
And yea, the Xbox 360 DOES have more in common with the Game Cube then the original Xbox, which is why Xbox game compatibility on the 360 sucks ass. In fact, the 360 basically uses re-compiled binaries you can download to run the games on the 360, because the 360 CPU is not nearly fast enough to emulate a 733Mhz Pentium III in it's entirety.
The Wii *is a game cube.* The Atari 7800 was *almost* compatible with all 2600 games (not 100%) and the PS2 absolutely did NOT play every PS1 game perfectly. I don't own nor have I read much about any of the game boy units, so I can't really say much there (except that GB games, until the DS, were fairly simple machines.)
Minor issues on a game are just that, MINOR issues. You probably won't notice them. "Noticeable Issues" are some graphics glitches and such, that do NOT affect game play in any way.
You're being entirely too picky, and it's because you're a FAN BOY. Admit it! Well, okay, maybe you're not a fan boy - you're an ANTI-FAN BOY. You're a Fan Boy of the PS3 in the opposite sense.
Are you fucking kidding me?
We just purchased two quad-socket dual-core opteron machines with 32GB ram to run VMware on.
When you're running a lot of VM's on your hosts, you can go with Intel because they have more marketing power, or you can go with AMD because they perform much better in cpu/memory intensive SMP applications.
Yea, the extra compatibility just won't matter; if they had the emulation up as good as it is now when they released the PS3 originally, I don't figure any PS3 would have included that extra hardware. They do keep improving the compatibility with updates; the last major update (1.80) included a number of fixes. With the track record so far with PS3 updates, I expect to see more improvements in the near term.
I think a lot of folks mustn't realize how easy it is to replace the hard drive in the PS3. There's a slot on the side you can open, and yank the disk right out. Put in the new one, and the PS3 will tell you it needs to be formatted. Done. And the cool thing is that you can plug in a USB hard drive first, back up all your data, upgrade the drive, and restore everything back on. Cool stuff.
Alternatively, you can just plug in an external USB drive and use that to store all your images, music, and videos.
You just don't have the numbers right. Microsoft has sold only about 10 million 360's. Nintendo has sold less consoles then that, and the PS3 behind that. However, Sony sold 120+ million Playstation 2 units. So, they really don't need to get people that own an Xbox 360 to buy a PS3. There's plenty more customers out there to be had. They want to compete with games and features, but they don't need to woo existing console owners.
The retail market.. does it matter anymore? Why cares? Most titles will still be available at the stores; at least until the PS4 and Xbox 1080 come out. Accessories and systems will still be at stores. Should we ignore the fact that the Internet exists because some guy wants to keep his EB games store in business? It's called progress. If I can download a game to the hard drive and run it from there, faster and better then a disc, then that's what I'll do. Valve has been using their Steam system for online distribution of full games for some time now, and I don't see anyone losing money over it.
Yea, they could do what PSEmu or Bleem! did with their PS1 emulators. They can add bilinear filtering to PS1 games and Anti-aliasing to both, and increase the screen resolution because it's polygons and you can do that. Of course, they're looking for compatibility, so we're not likely to see those types of improvements any time soon.
.old. But, Sony did recently add some filtering to old titles, sort of how MAME or the Nintendo/SNES emulators do it. It makes the games look quite a bit better (but still old school.)
As far as I could tell, the PS2 games I've played on my PS3 looked the same as the PS2. Lots of people purchased HD TV's at the same time they purchased PS3's so they might just be shocked over how much better the HD games looked, and it makes the older games look really..
I think the degree of compatibility with the PS3 without the extra chips is very impressive. It seems like only some really odd titles don't work 100%, and old games in series; (like Madden 2001 not being perfect, where 2002, 03, 04 and 05 work fine.) The units with the extra CPU are better, but give them a couple more months and it simply won't matter at all.
You don't have to guess - you yourself just posted their compatibility list. I don't know why it's unacceptable to you that nearly every single PS/PS2 game made in the last decade will run great on a brand new console. It's unprecedented compatibility; more so then any Microsoft OS upgrade has ever provided.
I know it's a real bitch that Madden 2001 plays fine with some graphical glitches. Dammit, I need Celebrity Deathmatch to work PERFECTLY!!! And I just know all the kids want to play NHL '98 like it was dreamed to be.
Backward compatibility is new. Sony was the first company to do it on a game console. They did extremely well with the PS3 in this regard, too. You're just bitching because you want to bitch at something.
It's an overclocked Game Cube with a new controller. Face it. All of the demo units up until WERE game cubes. They did their job well; they convinced millions of people that the Wii is a "Next Generation Console" and sold it for huge profits.
So, it's OKAY for Nintendo to make hand over fist on the Wii console sales, but it's bullshit for Sony to lose less money?
There's nothing especially wrong with either approach, but I can't believe Nintendo sells the Wii for that much money.
No, it's only been that some of the new refurb units have been outfitted with better cooling parts. There's been no indication of NEW units having the "fix." Eventually, they will do this on newly manufactured units, and eventually this will trickle down the retail market.. maybe by 2008.
It's still a month to get it replaced. And it sucks, because there's no guarantee your data will be saved, and the 360 provides no way to back up all your data.
If you own an Xbox, and you don't really want a PS3, then don't buy one and be done with it. $100 more then your budget? You settled on the 360 for whatever reasons, so be happy with that system. It's almost as good at playing games as the PS3.
I don't understand your problem.
The compatibility of PS1/2 games on the units without the PS2 chip is very high. They're removing it because A) It's unnecessary cost now that the software emulation is so good, B) Unnecessary complexity of manufacturing C) Unnecessary heat production.... and a myriad of other reasons.
Once the 60GB models are cleared out of inventory, expect to see the 80GB version drop to $500. Maybe they'll have a 120GB version by then, and continue on.
For all the people dropping $300 and $400 for iPods every other year for another 20GB, I don't understand the issue here.
Awesome - you're going to pay $300 for a game cube instead. Boy, Nintendo sure did a good job making suckers out of you people.
Hey FanBoy!
Since when is 90%+ compatible with PS1/2 titles, crippled? Really, you're a fucking dick. Aww, come on. You know you are. Even though they've continued to improve compatibility on the software-emulation PS3's, and even when there ARE problems, they don't generally affect game play. And yet you're still a bitch even though you apparently have no problem with Microsoft's 35% compatibility rate?
Please, go play your XboxWii60, and stay the hell out of the PS3 discussions. You don't own one, you said you wouldn't buy one, so what's the fucking problem?
AWW CRAP! Slashdot user 467217 was *close* to buying your system, maybe!!!
Be sure that the exclusive content is going to be no big deal, and it will be available for the PS3 as well in the future; in fact they did say they would do different things for the PS3 version. Calling this a selling point for the 360 is ridiculous; it's even more ridiculous then one of those "exclusive for three months" titles both systems have coming.
I wouldn't touch 360, not until I can get one for $100 on e-bay. Warranty, my ass. I want to spend $500 on a piece of equipment that in all likelihood will fail, and then be without it for months until Microsoft (we ARE talking about Microsoft here, don't forget that) gets around to replacing it. Awesome.
The batteries in the SIXAXIS controllers lasts a long time. Yea, I like external batteries because you can replace them when they eventually stop taking a charge, but because there's no rumble pack, the batteries last a long time. I can use my controllers for weeks (granted, I'm not a hard core player) without charging them.
You did mention that you'd have to find the USB cable - which is a good point. Any USB cable with a mini end (same as digital cameras, etc) will work. You can buy a super long cable for peanuts. You can use USB hubs, too.
Get a grip. It's going to be an accessory. I don't see Wii users bitching because their Wii's don't come with the upcoming WiiGun attachment.
Patches on the PS3 are easy because every single one has a hard disk, but besides that, the API's have been there since day one, so a lot of titles actually already support it.
I'm actually not ticked off at all. Rumble is cool, and the original Xbox controllers (the big ones) had a pretty strong rumble which was used well in many titles. But, my PS3 doesn't have it, and I honestly don't really miss it. It will be nice to get some controllers with rumble when they are released, but it's really not that big a deal. The games are still just as fun without it.
Apparently some games already support rumble and will use it when rumble controllers are released. The API's and everything else except the controllers themselves are already in place for developers to use. And, although some games won't get patches, a bunch of other games already have downloadable updates and it doesn't seem like a stretch to think they'll just do it again if they don't have support for rumble.
Holy fanboy alert!
On your same reasoning, I'll say:
It's 2007! How come the hottest Microsoft console doesn't have motion sensing controllers? Or Bluetooth? Or flash memory support? Or USB ports? Or hard drives standard? Or Gigabit Ethernet? Or HD-Disc standard? Or HDMI? Or free online play?
The list goes on, and yes, it's stupid.
You know what? You should stop visiting the site then. While there's plenty of riff-raff, Slashdot posters often have well thought-out and interesting opinions on all sorts of topics.
You've just insulted the entire Slashdot community by being the prick you are, and if you go away, that'll be one less person to bring everyone down.
That seems proper if you ask me.
Ohh you proved me wrong - there's at least five TV's out there that can take 1080p over component.. It's not FUD. Almost no devices accept 1080p over component, never mind the fact that most TV's don't even take it over HDMI.
This is a message board, and I offer my opinions. I believe the size and shape of the Playstation controller to be near perfect for a general purpose controller - almost anyone can use it, big or small, it doesn't cramp your fingers too bad if you play over extended periods (although, like any controller it can depend on the game) it's not too heavy and it's sturdy as hell. I never hear anyone complain about the PS controller style unless they're a YAMB (Yet Another Microsoft Bitch) trying to start shit.
If you think I'm "presenting as fact" something that obviously COULDN'T be (the idea, by it's very nature, is an opinion even if it were to be shared by 100% of people you polled) then I don't know what to say except perhaps that you might grow up a little bit.