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Sony Sues Rootkit Maker
flyboy974 writes "Sony BMG Music Entertainment is suing the company that developed anti-piracy software for its CDs, claiming the technology was defective and cost the record company millions of dollars to settle consumer complaints and government investigations. The software in question is the MediaMax CD protection system, widely derided as a rootkit. Sony BMG is seeking to recover some $12 million in damages from the Phoenix-based technology company, according to court papers filed July 3."
The rootkit software was developed by First 4 Internet (now called Fortium Technologies). I suppose that an inability to sue straight can now be added to Sony BMG's portfolio of stupidity and arrogance. I hope SunnComm (now called The Amergence Group), as despicable as its own efforts were, totally owns Sony BMG.
With all these name changes, I wonder when Macrovision is going to change theirs?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
Being able to pass the blame to someone else is priceless.
Seems to me like the responsibility for the functioning of a product should fall upon the distributor. Of course, you could ask if Sony is suing more for the money or as a PR measure to try to shrug off some of the blame for the whole debacle.
I'd be prepared to put money on Sony losing this case. I'm sure we've all seen this sort of thing before. Media Max will have warned Sony that the approach had problems, they will have a mail chain demonstrating that, but Sony's management will have bullishly insisted on the security features it offered while ignoring or not bothering to understand the warnings it contained about the risks. What are the chances even their own technical advisors internally warned against it?
Watching this will be like watching a celebrity deathmatch between Kim Jong Il & George W Bush.
You're hoping there's some way both will lose.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
The enemy of our enemy is still our enemy. In this case let them fight it out, and hopefully in the future all parties involved (content producers, technology developers, etc) will be too scared of financial damages to do something this stupid again.
This is actually a very good thing, because no-one involved will be immune to the consequences.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
To bad they can't sue the guys who made AACS (since they're part of the consortium). I wonder if they'll be able to sue the people who developed BD+, once that gets owned.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
In a recent development the lawyers of Sony were bewildered. None of the documents they had on their computers relating to the contract and negotiations with MediaMax could be found in their computers. The lawyes were muttering, "cant believe it. I know I saved those emails and pdfs right in the hard disk. Where the hell could they be hiding?".
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
I fully believe Sony knew what they were getting in to with this company. Sony also knew that if anything went wrong (like it did), they'd be able to easily sue this company which is a fraction of it's size.
Sony isn't earning any points back with me on this one..
I want both Sony and MediaMax to suffer greatly. (It's ok for Sony to survive imho, but MediaMax should probably die and have its fields salted.)
But isn't this a bit like a bank robber who shoots a cop suing Smith and Wesson? E.g., it sounds like Sony knew (or should have known) exactly what it was putting on their CDs.
Must be great to be a simple programmer at that company. Make software that you know is defective and potentially harmful, and get paid anyway. Anything happens, and you can just claim the 'I was following orders' defence and get away with it.
I do hope someone at management level gets in a lot of trouble for that. No wonder software these days is always sold 'without warranty'
Now, any takers if some real 'software engineers' that is real engineers would have even undertaken such a project? I doubt it.
All those landmines I buried in my front lawn made me look like a total psychopath when they blew up all those postal carriers, girl scouts, and neighborhood cats. Apparently, I can restore my status as a fine upstanding member of the community by simply suing the manufacturer of said landmines!
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
In a free (for various definitions of free) market we will only get well developed software when the majority of consumers quit accepting the current state of software quality.
Maybe this kind of lawsuit will help set precedents for software maker fear of litigation for poor quality software.
I know this is tangential, but so is case law.
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
New York-based Sony BMG, a joint venture of Sony Corp. and Bertelsmann AG, declined to elaborate on the suit. Sony BMG is home to names such as Bruce Springsteen, Carrie Underwood and Modest Mouse.
Modest Mouse
Worms. vs Birds
Self pity me, it's so pitiful
You can see that birds and worms don't get along
Self-righteous me, it's so wrong and
You can see that we don't have to get along
Self pity me, it's so pitifull
You can see that birds and worms do not agree
And we will crawl
(Will crawl)
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Step 1. Outsource programming of a rootkit
Step 2. Release rootkit to the public
Step 3. Get sued by the public
Step 4. Sue company that you originally contracted to write you a rootkit
Step 5. ?
Step 6. Come up smelling of roses
What a pleasure to watch a fight between two assholes: in either case, you win!
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Will the real victims here (the customers) see this extra cash?
The Sony Corporation
Making cash off of their customer misfortunes since 1946
Yet another great example of a Product with DRM being Defective by Design! Join the movement: Defective By Design
Thomas A. Knight
Author of The Time Weaver
Must be for patent infringement.
...that they do not warrant nor guarantee this software to be suitable for any function or use, especially for that which it was designed? That they agree to indemnify (love that word, it means you can't sue or hold responsible) the seller or maker of the software for any reason at all?
is just shifting the blame. It's a black stain on their record that they put a virus on peoples computers. Now they can say that it was someone elses fault regardless of the outcome of this lawsuit. It's surprising they waited this long to say "someone else made this, we're all so innocent here, let's sue these bad bad guys".
You're assuming management even saw the warnings. At least the managers that had the power to make a change. I don't know about you, but there's a been few times when I tried bringing problems up to management and the answer I received was, "I don't care; just get it done!"
Management wasn't even concerned. And in this case, those emails probably stopped at the tech lead or the first line manager and he didn't say anything to protect his ass.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
Let me be the first to say that this is completely stupid. Nobody forced Sony to put that software on the CDs, and I wouldn't doubt that Sony knew exactly what they were doing when they put that software on the CDs. If they didn't, well then, it's their own fault. Having them pass the blame on to the company that made this software just make me hate Sony even more. Sony has done so many braindead things in the past couple of years that it's no wonder that Nintendo stock rose above theirs, if only for a short while. From rootkits, to $600+ consoles, to sueing the people who sold them the rootkit, I just can't imagine what they'll do next.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying I hate them because they released a $600+ console ( + because it's even more expensive once you buy a game and a second controller) but what I'm saying is that it's a really boneheaded idea, and I don't know how they ever thought it would have mass appeal, no matter how good the graphics are.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
So Sony is going to court and admitting that whoever set up this scheme from their end never asked, and was never told in writing that there might be some issues with this security scheme? All it's going to take is one document from the rootkit folks to sink this lawsuit. I'm assuming there's a paragraph somewhere saying "Our system is superb, but it has a few implementation details that might piss off every consumer"
With Sony, 'defective' == caught, busted, outed, 'not rootkit-y enough', et cetera.
Hmm. Makes sense to me. Lord knows the first thing I blamed when I got caught with my hand in the cookie jar was the company that made the step ladder.
No matter the outcome of the court case, this is probably a GoodThing(TM). The fact that DRM cost Sony millions of dollars and goodwill being splashed across the headlines will only make other companies more cautious when they consider taking similar steps.
Sigh. A perfectly good punchline ruined by awful grammar.
Berzerker!
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
You know, the part that says you can't sue us, even if our products caused you damage? Even from gross negligence or our complete stupidity? LOL
CheersXyst
"Section 938.334 Sub W.
By agreeing to use this product to proctect your music CD's from piracy you also agree to hold us immune from any lawsuits, incurred directly or indirectly, due to your customers not liking this product."
oops... Guess they should read those EULA's VERY CAREFULLY...
At least that is what these companies would say to us...
":{ Grr...
--- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
The politicians will pass a law that holds these companies blameless, just like they pass laws that hold themselves blameless.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Am I the only one who thought he saw "Sony Sues Rootkit Maker for Copyright Infringement?"
Also, is anyone else entertained by the fact that Sony is claiming DRM is defective technology? hah.
I think Sony has a case there. It was supposed to be a rootkit, and rootkits are usually impossible to find. Some "hackers" found it, so it obviously has to be defective. If it was working as advised, nobody would've found it.
Wait, did anyone here think Sony complained that it was a rootkit, and that this was the defect? Get real.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
As much as you don't like George W Bush, you might want to rethink that. If Kim Jong Il won and became the President of the USA:
Jeepers! Did you read my post? I said I hope they both lose a celebrity deathmatch.
You notice that at no point do I express my wish for Kim Jong Il to win anything, let alone the presidency of the most-armed-to-the-teeth country on the planet.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
[/joke]
The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
IMHO
1. Record musician
2. Buy rootkit
3. Install rootkit on music CD
4. Sell CDs
5. Infect customers with rootkit
6. Be sued by attorneys general
7. Be sued by customers
8. Lose many, many formerly faithful customers who were burned by rootkit (like me for instance)
9. ???????????
10. Sue rootkit developer
11. Profit!
More seriously, three questions:
1. When is Sony going to give me the money (including my time) it cost me to repair my PC after my daughter infected it with their rootkit?
2. Why in the HELL did nobody go to prison for this? If I installed rootkits on their computers you can bet your ass I'd be in the slammer!
3. Why in the HELL is this company still in business? After infecting MUSIC CDs with rootkits people still buy their COMPUTERS!!! WTF??? And I thought Microsoft and SCO were evil! They're pikers when it comes to being EVIL.
-mcgrew
I hope they both lose.
If they sue MediaMax, this starts a ripple wave throughout the industry that scares off companies considering the DRM business only to discover the liability of your customer(s) suing you.
So this hampers development of DRM technology. What sane company would go into business with a mega-corp that ligitates their suppliers?
With DRM hampered, this reduces the effectiveness of copyright. Go Sony!
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
This is why as a general rule I don't approve, seek, or enjoy working on DRM related tasks. Fortunately, my job [sw developer at a crypto firm] rarely involves me working on DRM at all.
In 10 years we won't even have DRM anymore as more and more of the public wakes up and turns against DRM [especially DRM that makes their lives harder than they need to be].
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Just a question I've been wanting to ask for a while. How much has this whole rootkit debacle caused you to avoid Sony products?
Shortly after it happened, I promised myself I would buy nothing with a Sony brand for at least a year. To my knowledge, I complied with that (though they do have tentacles in more things than you think, so who knows). I figured I need to end the boycott after a year, or else there wouldn't be any incentive for them to change anyway. I still haven't bought anything major from Sony -- the very name SONY screams to me "infected millions of PCs with rootkits, and tries to take away my Freedom!" But enough time has passed that I would probably consider buying a Sony product if it really were the right one for me.
How about you?
Correct, but the lawsuits should end with the company that decided to use it as a weapon (Meeting minutes will be subpoenaed to determine this, I am certain)otherwise, the lawsuits never end. Next up? Microsoft... they distributed the OS. Intel and AMD make the CPUs which executed the ugly code. Then I suppose they'll sue God next for making bits? This is silly. If Sony knew that a rootkit was being distributed, then they are as responsible as the company which made the rootkit -- IMO, more so because they were putting the product to malicious use. If Sony simply bought a black-box "copy protection system" and the supplier made the decision to include the rootkit, then they are mostly responsible. But Sony is responsible to its customers, just as the copy protection provider is responsible to its customers. Why? Because rootkits are legitimate products. It's how they are used which determines liability.
Now, let's talk about rat poison.
Rat poison is also a product which has a legitimate, obvious use. However, if a restaurant serves it in my tea, that is a criminal act. The restaurant is responsible if they added it, or had knowledge that it was in the tea (even if they did not prepare the drink). However if the restaurant can prove I'm a rat then they can get away with serving rat poison to me. So it is with the current media companies. They are charging that their customers are actually rats (ahem, "pirates") who must be fed a steady diet of poison to control their numbers (as if the music and mindless movies weren't poison enough, but I digress!) If RIAA/MPAA can prove we're all rats, they can get away with this sort of negligent behaviour. Not on their own in a free market, mind you, because no consumer would choose these crap products, but if the **AA can force legislation and regulation which mandates copy control, or better yet ban free and open standards, the end of "first sale" doctrine, disassemble "fair use" and/or other nefarious restrictions, they have in effect convinced the lawmakers we are rats and must be controlled.
Only one solution: Quit buying their shite and they'll quit buying legislators.
The company that made the technoogy cant be held responsible for Sony's willingness to distribute the technology to the masses. Sony knew exactly what it was, and this company will prove it.
Don't know. Liquor store was in a dry county, maybe? BTW. Moderator is tuff today.
Kim Jong Il is a very nasty piece of work, but thankfully he doesn't affect my country (which is not the US) currently, and this is true for most western countries.
In contrast, Bush's policies affect my country disastrously, in hundreds of ways. That makes Bush far worse than Kim Jong Il, in a practical sense.
Like the OP said though, neither one of them should come out of that deathmatch alive, as they're both a disaster for the world. Pity that it can only happen in our dreams.
were dismayed despite "discovering" their original documents. Sadly they discovered, the documents did not prove Sony's innocence. In fact it became quickly evident that Sony had been in the wrong all along, according to all evidence.
New York-based Sony BMG, a joint venture of Sony Corp. and Bertelsmann AG, declined to elaborate on the suit. Sony BMG is home to names such as Bruce Springsteen, Carrie Underwood and Modest Mouse.
Modest Mouse
Worms. vs Birds
Self pity me, it's so pitiful
You can see that birds and worms don't get along
Self-righteous me, it's so wrong and
You can see that we don't have to get along
Self pity me, it's so pitifull
You can see that birds and worms do not agree
And we will crawl
(Will crawl)
Sony = Bird
DRM = Worm
No, scratch that.
Sony = Bird
You = Worm
Much better.
___
Expert Grant Writing for Non-profits and Businesses
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
One of the great blights (IMHO) of American society is the decay of personal reponsibility. "It's not my fault, they should have told me the hot coffee was hot!". This slide was led (again IMHO) by the Democratic leaders of the 80s & 90s, who insisted that crime and other problems were the failure of the system, the failure of the society - individuals were not to blame. The outcome of this is an increase in frivolous lawsuits. Another problem seems to be an increase in "syndromes", where people blame hastily invented, acronymic illnesses or syndromes for the problems cause by poor parenting or minor behavioral deviations. "Oh, you'll have to make special allowances for my son. He's got FCLBMS (Food Consumption Leading to Bowel Movement Syndrome)". People do weird things, theres no need to create a disease for every little tick. I do not mean to discount or diminish actual mental health issues like ADHD, but hey folks, life is tough, get over it.
Sony is just showing what happens when this lack of responsibility reaches the boardroom. They're the first, they won't be the last.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
First, Sony releases CD's with a rootkit, and I'm supposed to hate them for it.
Then, they announce they're going to recall the CD's, and I'm supposed to like them again.
Then, their "removal" program doesn't work as advertised, and I'm supposed to hate them again.
Now, they sue the company that provided them with the DRM, implying that they didn't want a rootkit to begin with.
So is Sony "good" again, or are they now evil for using the legal system? It often seems to be taboo around here for any company to sue any other, for any reason.
Before it's too late! :)
If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
Haha!! /Nelson
1. The court finds that the software was indeed defective, etcetera etcetera, and awards Sony $12M, plus attorney's fees.
2. The court also finds that the company sued was acting as the agent of another company, named Sony, and that it is that company, and not the one originally sued, which is liable.
Sony pays Sony $12M. Everybody wins!
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
I know nothing of the DRM sales pitch made to Sony, but if I was making the sale, it would go like this:
When you are selling a product with a significant technical "issues", the standard practice is to use a technique I call "sell high". With this method, the salesperson seeks out the highest level "decision makers" they can find -- making an effort to go over the head of anyone with a technical background. The sales team typically consists of an MBA-type male who comes across as a golfing buddy to the decision making group. The other person is usually an attractive woman who demonstrates the product in such a way that the suits are watching her instead of thinking. The sales pitch is based entirely on things the suits understand -- the problem, the need for a solution, the cost, and perceived benefits. Dirty little details like technical issues are left for the "little people" to figure out later. It's not all that hard to get a roomful of MBAs to cheerleading the "project". Even better if the whole thing is instigated by a CEO or senior manager who has issued some kind of directive to "do something" about piracy. The ultimate weapon of such a sales force is the golf trip. By the time the group reaches the 19th hole, it's a done deal.
At my old company, we had a level of management that made decisions and commitments without consideration of technical matters. We referred to them as "the golfers". The products and projects we got stuck with were referred to as "golfware".
My guess is that by the time anyone at Sony with a technical background was involved, they complained. But it was too late to convince the MBA cheerleaders that the technology they just bought was worse than worthless.
Yeah, I was about to say that. Sue a software company for flaws in their software? That's impossible!
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Wow! Excellent point. Maybe NO company will ever want to put undisclosed root-kits in software for bigger companies (like Sony) because they'll fear litigation. Maybe Sony will never be able to get that kind of software from an outside company again!
Oh, wait, you didn't mean that you thought putting the fear of litigation into companies selling evil software was a bad thing did you?
B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
Last time I checked you weren't required to have a picture of Bush in your house and bow to it...
If you attend a Bush political rally wearing a shirt that reads, "Protect our civil liberties," then you get ejected. Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I'd be prepared to put money that Sony knows it will lose, but doesn't care. If this action is for PR purposes -- and I assume it is -- Sony will accomplish its purpose regardless of the outcome.
Major lawsuits are big news. The convoluted and complicated resolutions of those lawsuits are much less interesting for the general public. For example, everyone knows that Microsoft has been tied up in various litigation in various countries for the past decade, but the average citizen has no idea how these cases have turned out.
The end result is that the average electronics consumer will learn from the media that:
1 - Sony produced bad technology that hurt customers
2 - Sony is suing the bad people responsible for this
3 - The court's decision on the matter is hidden in a 20 word article on page 47 of the weekend edition.
If Sony wins companies such as MediaMax will be less likely to produce such products because they will have no protection from liability. If MediaMax wins companies such as Sony will be less likely to produce such products because they will be indemnifying the unknown work of other companies. Let the legal bloodletting begin!
Wait, so Sony contracts with a company to put rootkits on its cd's. Then when Sony gets caught in a public relations backlash, they blame the company that supplied the rootkit? That is like a drug user blaming his drug dealer for selling him the drugs the cops caught him with. Corporate responsibility just died.
I really doubt it will help Sony's PR any to do this. Those that actually know about the rootkits will know that Sony is at fault. Those that don't will remain clueless. A rootkit maker will either be sued out of existence or tied up in court. Finally, it will probably make many think twice about doing business with Sony in the future, since nobody wants to end up as their new scapegoat.
Sounds like a good plan to me, take careful aim at that foot, Sony!
The results of the class action lawsuit against Sony was that you could either get $7.50 and download an album or download 3 albums. Like every class action lawsuit I've ever been a part of from Sony all the way back to when Kodak brought out their own version of a Polaroid-style camera, the only people that ever benefit are the lawyers. The rest of us just get coupons for more crap from the company that caused the problem in the first place.
If there is any justice then Sony will just get a coupon for more rootkits from the company and not any actual money.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Of course they are the least likely company to do something like this again. After this lawsuit anyone that Sony tries to contract to write the software again would be a fool to take the job. Do you really want to go contract work for someone who has a history of suing its contractors?
In fact I have one very dead laptop which I could have easily fixed, but I won't spend one penny on a replacement part for it if it winds up in Sony's bank account somehow. Upon a family member hearing that it could actually be fixed and usable again, and that I would not fix it, they asked if they could have it. I bought them a brand new laptop instead. I do put my money where my mouth is, and that won't be Sony any time soon.
Sony is not suing because the rootkit damaged people's computers, or because it invaded people's privacy, or because it is evil. Sony is suing because they lost money. Customers complained, CD sales suffered, Sony's reputation took a nasty hit.
Although Sony probably should have known what it was getting into when it hired a firm to mess with customers' computers, I can't say whether Sony's case against The Amergence Group has any validity in a court of law. Whether it does or not, however will not be affected by the goodness or badness of the rootkit.
My guitar chord generator.
They're not even upset, nor do they feel guilty that they've screwed over consumers. They're only upset that they got caught.
That's why they're suing, because the software wasn't hidden well enough to let them get away with it.
ATTENTION SONY BMG: SUCK IT UP
Internet: Serious Business
People found out about it.
step 1) Purchase and Distribute RootKit
step 2) Get sued and settle for 5 million
step 3) Sue Rootkit maker for 12 million -- PROFIT!
damn, it works.
... someone found it.
DON'T SELL IT.
Keep it to yourself.
Could you imagine a burglar suing the manufacturer of surgical gloves because they tore and left fingerprints at the scene? or a rapist suing the condom manufacturer because it had a hole in it and let semen through thus leaving DNA for forensics to find?
Sony raped peoples computers and got caught... unfortunately they were allowed off with a pathetic slap on the wrist. The Execs responsible should have been jailed for it. And now they want to use the rootkit supplier???
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Brilliant idea! Let's kick up another stink and get this mistake back in the headlines again!!!
No sig today...
Maybe at some point they will realize that having no DRM might actually make them more money than pissing off paying customers.
I think the PR DOES hurt in this case. They should be trying to let people forget that they ever distributed root kits at all
Too bad the Judge can't just order all the parties involved to commit seppuku for bringing dishonor to their respective companies. My regime would require samurai honor code for public officials and corporate executives! Actually, China just executed their Ex-food-and-drug administration type person for corruption, and I'm all for that. That's really putting your money (Or whatever it is Communists use) where your mouth is. Except if we did that here in the USA I'd be surprised if anyone were left standing in Washington D.C...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The fact is, Sony knows that people WILL buy their products. Sony is a huge Japanese company which is sortof a flip flop from the automobile industry. The American car manufacturers know that people WILL buy crap cars, even though the Japanese companies who manufacture cars in the USA for sale in the USA have a better, more reliable, and cheaper product. The American car companies are so big and such a influential part of American society that they know there is no hurry to make a better car, or to help society, they are just concerned with profits, and know that the government will bail them out if neccessary. In this case, Sony is the huge company that knows that the people they are marketing root-kitted cds to (teenagers) will always buy their product, and the only reason they are trying to cover up is because they stunk up their image enough to where they are losing money. $12 million dollars? I thought they were losing billions of dollars a year to pirates. In any case, in my opinion Sony is just trying to keep their reputation clean, as there are still a lot of competitors to them who compete against the "Sony" name, they could care less what sort of drivel they market to teenagers, obviously.
And in additional news, I posted that admittedly lame joke just about 5 minutes after a similar one, and yet three different mods just had to mark it "redundant". Yes, it was (by a few minutes). Yes, we get the point already. Go use your powers for good or something like that.
Specifically, I hope that Sony had to agree to some EULA-like tough-shit clause that indemnifies whoever wrote that software from any and all defects. I'm sure it was a work for hire done at Sony's direction and that whoever wrote it did exactly what Sony wanted them to do. Sony deserves to bear the brunt for this mistake. After all, it was Sony that stood to make millions of dollars from the distribution of these DRM-CDs; they probably paid a comparatively tiny fee to the developers of the infamous rootkit.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Yes, hate them for putting a rootkit on their CDs. Full stop.
Once they've done that, nothing they have or might do (short of releasing the infect^Waffected music into the Public Domain) can redeem them!
Maybe a decade from now, if that entire interval is free of anti-customer fuck-ups, they might be forgiven (as Nintendo has been forgiven for its early '90s censorship and anti-competitive tactics).
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I was looking for a digital camcorder a while back. Sony sure has some nice, high-quality digital camcorders. I ended up getting a JVC camcorder because I explicitly refused to buy a Sony product.
I made sure my father didn't buy a Sony HDTV. He got a Samsung instead.
I haven't bought a PS3 and I tell others not to, either. The Wii is better anyway.
:(){
An interesting question is what were the terms of the materials that MediaMax licensed the software to Sony under. Assuming they were not utter idiots, there was almost certainly a clause in the license that says they can't be sued for consequential damages. Would a court override such a clause in the contract?
Sony certainly seems to think they can get somewhere with it or they wouldn't have bothered filing such a lawsuit.
What does this mean? Well, for starters unless very, very narrowly constructed such an argument could be made against any software product including a free one. A precedent of overriding or ignoring such a license clause could then result in a bunch of lawsuits against software makers for such consequential damages. Absolutely, Microsoft could be held accountable for spreadsheet errors, viruses, identity theft and who knows what else. The authors of free software could be held accountable for errors and omissions that result in consequential damages to businesses or even individuals.
Sounds like a terrible precedent to set. I would expect an avalanche of lawsuits being filed the next day. Microsoft would probably last six months, if even that. Adobe would be right behind them, as would every other software publisher that had someone that lost money because of software.
I believe the primary reason for such disclaimers of liability are because today it is nearly impossible for some third party to tell the difference between a defect in the software design and a user error. Making user-proof software would not be fun at all, nor would it be very usable. Think what designing an application with "CYA protection" built in from the beginning would be like.
If they said their software would do something it didn't do, they should get sued.
IMO, the people who made the DRM rootkit should be punished just for having made a DRM rootkit. It will be interesting to see whether or not the law suit winds up cascading down to them in some way.
Suing them would be a correct application of justice, IMO. However, even if Sony does it themselves, that doesn't make them good guys. My enemy's enemy is not my friend.
>I hope SunnComm (now called The Amergence Group), as despicable as its own efforts were, totally owns Sony BMG.
In dealing with product liability claims, which this is, you have the right, generally, to go after anyone in the chain of commerce you want. If they think someone else is at fault, they can cross-complain. This provision is good consumer protection.
For example, let's say you bought one of the famous inferno model Mr. Coffee makers at Sears. You take it home, take it out of the box, plug it in, make coffee, and go off to the movies. The Mr. Coffee malfunctions and burns up your kitchen and maybe the rest of your house. You can make a claim for damages against Sears, where you bought it. Their defense is that they "bought it in a box and sold it in a box," made no modifications, and so have no liability. It is up to them, however, to tender the claim to Mr. Coffee. They aren't off the hook until Mr. Coffee steps in.
This can be really important if you are dealing with an overseas manufacturer. You go to Sears and buy an electronic device manufactured by a South Korean company using parts from Malaysia, Taiwan, and Bangladesh. One of those parts malfs and burns down your house. Who do you want to go after? You go to Sears and make it their problem.
In the case of Sony, the same rules apply. Now whether they knew or should have known that the product was defective is a matter for the courts to decide, but the basic rules still apply.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
That hot coffee case was far from frivolous and is a good example of how the system works, not how the system is broken. People should be responsible for their actions, true, but corporations shouldn't get a free pass to do what they want, either.
In the Sony case I'm hoping there's some way both companies can lose.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
the irony..
Public realizes cure worse than the disease = -5,000 pts.
8 938o tected_DVDs0 .htmle d+CDs/2100-1027_3-5959341.html
Sony recalls discs = +10,000 pts.
Sony releases BluRay and PS3 = 0 pts.
Sony sues DRM Manufacturer = + 1pts.
Being stupid enough to not drop DRM and add it to thier DVD's = Priceless
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=3
Replacing some copy protected DVD's +1,000 pts.
http://digg.com/movies/Sony_Replaces_Some_Copy_Pr
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/00415
Stating they are committed to DRM = Unbelievable!
EMI and Sony BMG each have committed to sharply increasing the number of CDs that are protected with technology that limits the number and type of copies that can be made.
http://news.com.com/iPods+to+support+copy-protect
So, in total, Sony is an unbelievable amount in the hole. I think its safe to say they're still pariahs here.
To top it off they are braging the Blu Ray format is secure for 10+ years. That's easy to say if nobody bothers to buy it and support it.
The truth shall set you free!
My vote is cast with my money. Although sony does have some cool shit, I refuse to buy _anything_ from them. It's been tempting but I haven't faltered.
Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....
These things should come with a warning!
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I am committed to not buying consumer unfriendly products.
With the SONY rootkit I was pretty much immune simply because I don't buy CD's without the Compact Disk logo signifying complyance to standards. Needless to say, the SONY DRM CD's don't have the logo.
I did get burned by them when I bought a DVD. Sony is not listed on the front cover. On the front cover in the lower right corner is the DVD VIDEO logo. I got Open Season by Columbia Pictures and on the back in small print in the bottom right hand corner SONY Pictures Home Entertainment. Sony is in about an 8 point font and Home Entertainment is in about a 3 point font. Acidrip wouldn't touch it. (I use a media server. It eliminates missing, scratched, broken, and dirty DVD's with the kids.) Online I found I now have to be as carefull with DVD's as I was CD's.
The moment I found the number to call when they had replacements, I gave them a ring. They replaced it, but the damage is already done. The logo is small, it is now on my list of bad boys.
Is there a logo on DVD's to identify DVD's that work? The poisoning of the pot with DRM is bad for all manufactures. The Compact Disk logo is missing from almost all retail CD's nowdays. It's to the point, I don't bother with retail CD displays anymore. DVD's look to be the next as they try to push High Def just like SACD replaced regular CD's as a mainstream product. (Captain obvious.. It's sarcasm)
The truth shall set you free!
Really it will come down the exact wording of the contracts. Either Sony did or didn't get what they asked for, and they did or didn't give the appropriate sign-off.
That's funny, I wonder if "the Phoenix based technology company" also forced Sony to use their software? That would certainly make them liable.
Otherwise, odds are good that company developed for Sony exactly what they were asking for -- as evidenced by Sony actually USING the software. If I were The Amergence Group, I would counter-sue on the platform that Sony approved of and used the software in question, only to blame the makers for Sony's PR problems.
It's a frivolous lawsuit, and one which Sony should have been smart enough to avoid. This will only hurt their image even more. Nobody's buying the idea Sony is the victim here.
"The music company accuses Amergence of negligence, unfair business practices and breaching the terms of its license agreement by delivering software that "did not perform as warranted."
These are bogus claims. I'm not sure what they mean by "did not perform as warranted" unless they were told no one would find out about the hidden files.
I think the real problem here is that Sony agreed to do something unethical and paid the price. Now instead of admitting that THEY (Sony) made a mistake they're in denial.
I hope that Sony wins.
Why? Well, it sure as hell isn't because I like Sony or believe in their case.
Rather, I'd like people to see making DRM as a risky business. Because, as we know, all DRM systems eventually fail, no DRM company would ever want to be on the hook for its failure. So if they can be held liable for that failure, making DRM will become a path to certain financial ruin.
Because those people are only in it to make money, that should help kill the market for DRM. And that, frankly, is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
With Sony biting the hand that fed it DRM solutions, I can only wait for the time when the hands stop giving.
As a former employee of Sunncomm, I can tell you that unethical business practices and misleading claims were practically the company charter. The CTO regularly made promises to the record industry without even bothering to see if it could be done. Then demanded that the developers somehow make it work anyway in an unreasonable time frame because it was going straight to mass production. Most of the 3rd party technology they tried to incorporate was proven questionable to useless in testing (what little was ever done), but they included it anyway assuring the record execs that it worked just fine. For example, their claims that the software worked on Mac was based on 1 test computer running an old version of the OS, using a version of Windows Media Player that had been taken out of circulation by MS so long ago that it was impossible to obtain another copy from anywhere. The software was being tested on a system that would not and could not exist anywhere in the outside world! In fact, the reason for this Frankenstein setup was because they couldn't get it to work on any up to date Mac setup. They kept using this one system to test just so they could say that it was tested and working on Mac! Most of the employees were fired at one point or another for not being able to meet unreasonable demands (including me). You really want some interesting reading, check out the CEO's past history including some of the court cases against him in previous companies he's run. Oh, and we often laughed at the fact that all of the employees spent their day listening to pirated music while we worked. Don't even get me started on they day we found 27 GIGs of porn on the CFO's pc. :P
As bad as Sony is, it's nothing compared to the sleesy people selling them snake oil.
Man sues Smith & Wesson for the making gun he used to rob a liquor store.
If Smith & Wesson were advertising guns as a form of credit card the analogy would be valid.
Blank until
This significantly raises the bar on any company going into the business of DRM. If you want to design and sell DRM, you really better make sure you do it right, or your customers will launch multi-million $ suits against you. The legally liability of being in this niche industry is either going to make DRM too expensive to be worth it, or you won't see companies will to risk themselves to venture into the market. Either way, it looks like DRM will price itself out of the market.
Okay, who wants to be the next person to sell a DRM solution to Sony? Hmmm?
No... it's not OUR fault for seeking to compromise the security of countless PCs without telling the people what we're doing... it's THEIR fault for not selling us a good enough product to get away with it without people noticing!
If this tool worked PERFECTLY, it would be found. As soon as a pirate was unable to copy a disc, knowing that DRM existed they'ed post about it on the sorts of sites where people like to fight said DRM. Through trial and error, these people would go through all their disks, (using an OS that wasn't affected) and finding what caused their friend's Windows machine to grow a conscience. If there was a delayed activation, this would be harder to track, but would still be found.
To do anything at all besides their absolute best to sweep this under the rug and hope people will forget about this shows that Sony feels no shame in their actions.
If Sony has been particularly public in announcing this, it's like an extra bird shot in our general direction,
Having deliberately sought to gain unauthorized access to thousands / millions of PCs, steal CPU time and disk space (mainframes and supercomputers sell time, so computer time is a resource, and not one willingly yielded by the root-kitted consumers. PC time isnt as valuable, given a single PC can't do as much, but given that no price was negotiated with the people running the software, ridiculous sums could be demanded.)
Selling anything that runs unauthorized software unannounced on a person's PC is like randomly shipping someone a box of food from a rat-infested ship. There might be a nasty (and hard to control) surprise inside.
A thought on this root-kit. Did the kit install with autorun.inf (legitimately in terms of Windows machines) or by hacking the machine. If this installed via autorun.inf I'd think most pirates would be immune from having this turned off long ago. Since the autorun is THE proper way to install software from a CD and this is SUPPOSED to be able to be turned off, does bypassing this mean that any user who had this run can sue under the DMCA for bypassing explicit protections? Given that turning off autoplay is supposed to control copying (from disc to RAM) of (presumably copyrighted) software on the CD, it seems it could squeak into yet another charge.
Is this root-kit secure? Does it add a vulnerability to the system?
If Sony didn't really inspect and test this, how did it know the root-kit wasn't searching for bank info and passing it back to the original authors who meant to play Sony for fools, using them as a massive distribution method. Consider the damage this makes possible. Any CD with an autorun.inf could do all sorts of nasty things. Sony did not think they were dealing with a reputable company, reputable company sells tools for breaking and entering or electronic trespass. (Exception: locksmithing tools, which *supposed* to be sold only to licensed locksmiths)
If Sony is willing to deal with questionable companies to achieve their goals in questionable manners, should they be trusted in any court case? If Sony supports suing people for Napster-ish stealing of songs and any presence of an mp3 is seen as evidence of theft, (are you excused if you can show the CD it was ripped from and an MP3 player you listened to it on in court?) can we be assured that Sony wouldn't plant evidence to make lawsuits easier? Hiding a few MP3s (or just files with suspicious names) where the user can't find them to hurriedly delete them (given many sued aren't exactly computer experts) wouldn't be out of character. Sony could then claim the user was being sneaky, but not sneaky enough. By making somewhat randomized locations for hiding and hopping between courts, they could keep this going for a long time.
As I understand if, if you steal 5 songs from a Napsterish source, you are liable for far more in damages than even 5 full CDs worth. The offense is considered to be distribution, despite that the user's actual intention is flat theft (with the dist
The Compact Disk logo is missing from almost all retail CD's nowdays.
Even before CDs started having DRM issues, a lot of CDs didn't have the logo, or if they did, it was inside the case. Generally speaking, the more elaborate the album art is, the less likely you are to find the CD logo on it.
From the second their rootkit copy "protection" was announced, article after article warned of its doom. Gee, what a surprise. I don't see Sony as a victim here even if MediaMax fucked up terribly.
First off, Sony distributed the Cd's with that software, that makes it there responsibility to know beforehand what they are selling. This is a crude analogy but if a company sold porn that used a 17 year old in the film, even if said person looked older, who would be held responsible? Would it be the porn producer, the agent that helped find said person. Looking at this more lets say one of the distributors of said videography didn't know about said 17 year old and wasn't informed by the producer, do you think he would be held responsible? Second, it seems to me that Sony publicly admitted to distributing root kits. If the company being sued has the original signed contract of what the software was supposed to do then they would be off the hook.
Even before CDs started having DRM issues, a lot of CDs didn't have the logo, or if they did, it was inside the case. Generally speaking, the more elaborate the album art is, the less likely you are to find the CD logo on it.
Very true. However when the DRM copy protection stuff started, I knew the pot was posioned. For a long time I looked for the logo. As it got worse, I finaly stopped going into record shops altogether. Nobody would stand up and say "This is a quality CD because it meets these technical standards"... Which is what sold the first CD's. Remember the ADD and DDD CD's? Most of those also had the Compact Disc logo. It's all gone now. Compressed to sound loud, destroyed dynamic range and S/N ratio and very much not price competitive against the new items to spend entertainment dollars on.
The truth shall set you free!
Purchasing rootkit: $1.000.000
Settling consumer complaints and government investigations: $12.000.000
Blaming someone else: Priceless!
ultraparanoid.wordpress.com
the first4 internet one was one of them
{and the worst}
the one in the article was another and only seemed to show up in the US
i assume first4 internet will be a seperate action in the UK