Well, we don't know who they were, we don't even know their names. But we know they are Osama's drones. I am not challenging the conclusions, it still would be nice to be fed with informations and not bullshits...
I cannot find a.gov or.mil link stating the "terrorists" identities are not known and we only know the name of the person from whom they stole passports, I saw that in "9/11 Loose changes", free download anywhere google can find it.
Note that even the official theory has all sort of bizarre aspects (James Bond-style mastermind villian in his secret underground bunker, for example).
* Intact hijacker passport found in the WTC ruins
* Corpse identification thanks to fingerprints in the pentagon
* Rumsfled making a lapsus about "these terrorists who pilot a plane into the WTC and a missile into this very building" while at the Pentagon
* Tapes that would really show the pentagon plane never disclosed (3 more to go with more than one blurry frame)
* half of the presumed "hijackers" still alive in Saudi Arabia or Qatar
even if there was no deliberate tampering (which I'm somewhat inclined to believe)
I tend to believe, in contrary, that there has been deliberate tampering. We know that:
There have been flaws that allowed to change votes
There have been "errors" (I have yet to find documentation about an error in favor of democrats)
The machines are "good enough" : if no one intended to be evil or tamper anything, the machines would carry on with their mission flawlessly.
Maybe I will be modded troll for this, or tin-foil hat-er. But I would like to be proven wrong. For me last elections were stolen, and democrats showed their incomptence by not bringing the issue in full light.
headline : "National elections rigged!"
There. You hooked Bobby.
Unethical ? Well give the facts in TFA. If Bobby still believes Iraq had WMDs, I don't see anything unethical in telling him what he must believe before the facts about he doesn't care.
they would have to suppress a violent insurgency in an already conquered land, threatening supply lines and established bases.
Well the point would be to help the people overthrow the government. No occupation would be needed, administrations works well and the country is not on the knees because of a blocus as was Iraq.
Hey ma! See! I didn't make any sarcastic comment about oil interests ! Ooops...
Remember though that, unlike Iraq, an opposition exists to the current government. An Iranian friend told me at the begining of the Iraq war : "good news! we're the next!". Iran's army is a real army, true. But it may take sides with the population if it rebels. In 2004 it could have work. In 2 years of catastrophic US foreign politics they might have tighten their grip on the army and population, but as the parent poster pointed, it is a developped country, with educated and rich people. Forget the desert-and-tent archetype, the residential suburbs of Teheran are not unlike those of San Jose.
Keep also in mind that in order to win the last elections, islamist conservatives had to arrest many opposants.
Anyway, screw treaties that the UN doesn't have the guts to enforce.
U.S. is doing this on its own. I mean, one can debate about whether or not they are allowed to do that by treaties, one thing is sure : no treaty forces them to act this way. So here you go, they made prisonners, some soldiers gave their words that these were terrorists, they were locked up without the opportunity to defend their case (how many of them do even speak english ?) And they were kept in a camp in a foreign country known for his infamous human right records, because the administration jurists were not sure they could keep them on american ground.
I mean, screw the written laws. They are doing THIS. Jailing people like cattle without trial for 5 years. Because there have been bombings, because there have hijackings, americans feel they have the right to regress and to commit injustices (and some say tortures) in the name of justice. No. In the name of vengeance. As a voter, ask you this : do you feel more secure, because 400 afghans are jailed in Cuba with no trial ? If you answered yes, do you feel secure, even knowing that 400 families out there miss someone and blame US for this ?
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
I think the talibans would rather be classified under this clause. "The laws and customs of war" is something so vague we can find a definition the taliban's behavior would fulfill and another that US soldier would not.
The war is over. The war was with Afghanistan. You have won the war, now you can restitute prisonners to the new stable and democratic government in Kabul (yes I am sarcastic) in order for them to be judged.
A war begins with a declaration of war and ends with an armistice or a peace treaty. War has been declared over Afghanistan (now it is over) and in Iraq (well, I think now everyone agrees it is not over there). "Terrorism" is not a nation, an organized force or an army, you don't fight it with soldiers. You fight Talibans, you fight Baasists, all of them having a leader, an organization. But you can't have a "war on an abstract concept". I have to tell you, from EU, this whole "war on terrorism" sounds like a politic slogan, but nobody considers it seriously as a real war.
Wrong. Read it in the text (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm):
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
[...]
6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
[...]
Article 5
The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation.
Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
I'll go for a fully specified and documented chip that comes with OSS software. I'll also hope that the impantable "chip" will be a bit more than a plain passive RFID tag (come on, there's room in there!) and so i'd want it to be able to "shut off" to maybe be flashable, to have some sort of memory, etc...
For the same reason you should know that your car runs with fuel, which come from oil, which come from various countries outsides the U.S. As a consumer you don't have to know, but as a human being, it sounds a good thing to understand.
Well, that is called DRM. Why they are bad have been discussed a lot here. If Apple has the right to do this, Microsoft too, Universal too. Tell me, if Apple can keep control of their encryption scheme why can't Microsoft keep control of their.doc technology ?
The RIAA wants DRMs. The government says it is not possible. So what ? The RIAA makes a blocus on France ?
the rights of companies that don't wish to share their technology with competitors.
We are talking about proprietary formats here, remember ?
What is next ? "Apple's right to own software patents ?"
Plus, the French law has been changed in senate. It now no longer requires interoperability, which was the only GOOD thing this pack of law had (from a OSS point of view)
As much as I would like this to be true, I'd like to raise the Japanese case : 2 weeks of holidays but most workers don't take them. With S.Korea, one of the most stressfull environment of developped countries, yet one of the first life expectancy in the world.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, we don't know who they were, we don't even know their names. But we know they are Osama's drones. I am not challenging the conclusions, it still would be nice to be fed with informations and not bullshits...
Would a .mil reference be enough ? Ctrl-f to "missile"
2 001_t1012pm.html
.gov or .mil link stating the "terrorists" identities are not known and we only know the name of the person from whom they stole passports, I saw that in "9/11 Loose changes", free download anywhere google can find it.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2001/t1118
I cannot find a
* Intact hijacker passport found in the WTC ruins
* Corpse identification thanks to fingerprints in the pentagon
* Rumsfled making a lapsus about "these terrorists who pilot a plane into the WTC and a missile into this very building" while at the Pentagon
* Tapes that would really show the pentagon plane never disclosed (3 more to go with more than one blurry frame)
* half of the presumed "hijackers" still alive in Saudi Arabia or Qatar
...it wasn't ready for the desktop. Yeah, mod me redundant, I know I'm not the only one in this case...
How did they recount ? the machines did have a paper trail ? How is THAT trustworthy ?
I tend to believe, in contrary, that there has been deliberate tampering. We know that:
There have been flaws that allowed to change votes
There have been "errors" (I have yet to find documentation about an error in favor of democrats)
The machines are "good enough" : if no one intended to be evil or tamper anything, the machines would carry on with their mission flawlessly.
Maybe I will be modded troll for this, or tin-foil hat-er. But I would like to be proven wrong. For me last elections were stolen, and democrats showed their incomptence by not bringing the issue in full light.
headline : "National elections rigged!" There. You hooked Bobby. Unethical ? Well give the facts in TFA. If Bobby still believes Iraq had WMDs, I don't see anything unethical in telling him what he must believe before the facts about he doesn't care.
How come no political party makes this a central campaign argument ?
But... think of the bloggers!
they would have to suppress a violent insurgency in an already conquered land, threatening supply lines and established bases.
Well the point would be to help the people overthrow the government. No occupation would be needed, administrations works well and the country is not on the knees because of a blocus as was Iraq.
Hey ma! See! I didn't make any sarcastic comment about oil interests ! Ooops...
I, for sure, wouldn't go to the moon in a college student vehicle. Call me snob...
Remember though that, unlike Iraq, an opposition exists to the current government. An Iranian friend told me at the begining of the Iraq war : "good news! we're the next!". Iran's army is a real army, true. But it may take sides with the population if it rebels. In 2004 it could have work. In 2 years of catastrophic US foreign politics they might have tighten their grip on the army and population, but as the parent poster pointed, it is a developped country, with educated and rich people. Forget the desert-and-tent archetype, the residential suburbs of Teheran are not unlike those of San Jose.
Keep also in mind that in order to win the last elections, islamist conservatives had to arrest many opposants.
LEELA: How many atmospheres of pressure can the ship withstand? PROFESSOR: Well it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one
"WARNING: Modem does not enable user to fly."
That I can understand, I'm not stupid, but on the box, they said I could surf with it but it doesn't even float !
Anyway, screw treaties that the UN doesn't have the guts to enforce.
U.S. is doing this on its own. I mean, one can debate about whether or not they are allowed to do that by treaties, one thing is sure : no treaty forces them to act this way. So here you go, they made prisonners, some soldiers gave their words that these were terrorists, they were locked up without the opportunity to defend their case (how many of them do even speak english ?) And they were kept in a camp in a foreign country known for his infamous human right records, because the administration jurists were not sure they could keep them on american ground.
I mean, screw the written laws. They are doing THIS. Jailing people like cattle without trial for 5 years. Because there have been bombings, because there have hijackings, americans feel they have the right to regress and to commit injustices (and some say tortures) in the name of justice. No. In the name of vengeance. As a voter, ask you this : do you feel more secure, because 400 afghans are jailed in Cuba with no trial ? If you answered yes, do you feel secure, even knowing that 400 families out there miss someone and blame US for this ?
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
I think the talibans would rather be classified under this clause. "The laws and customs of war" is something so vague we can find a definition the taliban's behavior would fulfill and another that US soldier would not.
The war is over. The war was with Afghanistan. You have won the war, now you can restitute prisonners to the new stable and democratic government in Kabul (yes I am sarcastic) in order for them to be judged.
A war begins with a declaration of war and ends with an armistice or a peace treaty. War has been declared over Afghanistan (now it is over) and in Iraq (well, I think now everyone agrees it is not over there). "Terrorism" is not a nation, an organized force or an army, you don't fight it with soldiers. You fight Talibans, you fight Baasists, all of them having a leader, an organization. But you can't have a "war on an abstract concept". I have to tell you, from EU, this whole "war on terrorism" sounds like a politic slogan, but nobody considers it seriously as a real war.
The Great Ghost Dance has begun. Beware! Seattle!
Wrong. Read it in the text (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm):
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
[...]
6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
[...]
Article 5
The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation.
Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
I'll go for a fully specified and documented chip that comes with OSS software. I'll also hope that the impantable "chip" will be a bit more than a plain passive RFID tag (come on, there's room in there!) and so i'd want it to be able to "shut off" to maybe be flashable, to have some sort of memory, etc...
Why should I need to know any more than that?
For the same reason you should know that your car runs with fuel, which come from oil, which come from various countries outsides the U.S. As a consumer you don't have to know, but as a human being, it sounds a good thing to understand.
Well, that is called DRM. Why they are bad have been discussed a lot here. If Apple has the right to do this, Microsoft too, Universal too. Tell me, if Apple can keep control of their encryption scheme why can't Microsoft keep control of their .doc technology ?
The RIAA wants DRMs. The government says it is not possible. So what ? The RIAA makes a blocus on France ?
the rights of companies that don't wish to share their technology with competitors.
We are talking about proprietary formats here, remember ?
What is next ? "Apple's right to own software patents ?"
Plus, the French law has been changed in senate. It now no longer requires interoperability, which was the only GOOD thing this pack of law had (from a OSS point of view)
As much as I would like this to be true, I'd like to raise the Japanese case : 2 weeks of holidays but most workers don't take them. With S.Korea, one of the most stressfull environment of developped countries, yet one of the first life expectancy in the world.
/me grabs popcorns
One could even argue that the bosnian-serbian war would have been very different...