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Social Consequences and Effects of RFID Implants?
kramdam asks: "Even with all the talk about privacy and security, there seems to be a growing community of people who are implanting themselves with RFID chips. Being a developer myself, I am intrigued about building applications and solutions that will open my doors, unlock my car, log me on to my computer and control home automation. I'm seriously considering jumping into this head first, being on the bleeding edge, and going with an implant. I have looked at resources like Mikey Sklar's site, and Amal Graafstra's site, since they are two pioneers on this subject. For research, I have started TaggedLife to document my own journey. I was wondering what the Slashdot community think about this. What do you think are the social, security, privacy, and health risks associated with this? What are the pluses? Would you do it?"
And no I'm not a Christian fundie but implants creep me out to the max. Frist post?
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
Inplantable RFID tags are just not for me. Sounds a little to, well, end-times-ish. I would rather have an RFID watch or something. Sure, it could be stolen, but what about a central control website where if it was stolen, I just deactivate the code from it and put in the code for my new watch. Problem solved.
and preferred by 9 of 10 Homeland Security agents.
Just remember to register your identity number with the Federal Government so we'll be able to associate your RFID with you wherever you go. Thanks!
The MIB.
Why exactly do you need an implant for this? This reads more as an attempt at resistance-numbing the public to the concept of implants themselves, because franky there's no viable reason you can't have all the features you listed in your keychain or wallet instead. I don't see the threat of lost or stolen hardware to be worth it.
You can also click on the google ads you see at the top of the pages.
I thought Google forbids click solicitation like this?
Please stop entering code 2,2,7,6,6,4
... but that's just me, I'm sure you'll be fine. :)
Seriously though. In this day in age unless I give up my credit card, internet account and cell phone I just have to come to grips with the fact that people will be able to track me. The government can find me. Thieves can steal my identity. Why shouldn't I at least benefit from this lack of privacy.
All or nothing, I wouldn't have it any other way. Chip me up.
I salute you in your quest to be boldly public.
Sorry,but there is no way in hell I would EVER allow one of those put in.Mark of the beast..Government and corporations are NOT gonna be able to track my every movement.If it makes them nervous,good.It'll keep the bastards on their toes.
Geek Hillbilly
How about skipping the implant and using the keys like normal human beings. Oh I get it, CNN doesn't interview normal human beings. No way I'm pulling the chip out of my BMW key and implanting it into my body because I want to get into my car 0.001 second faster. /no tattoos or piercings, either
Trouble is that people like you are spoiling things for the rest of us in the long run giving politicians argument to make this mandatory.
I am not religous but agree totally with the fear of the beast that religious people refer to.
Fuck that.
I don't need a fuckin' implant. Give me a credit-card sized ID, like my old apartment complex had. If I need to, I can break it in half and chuck it in the river. The only thing under my skin that wasnt there from birth will be tattoo ink, thank you very much.
What is the need to implant something like this? You would be equally well suited in all those tasks to carry an unmarked gray card in your wallet with an RFID chip in it. I suppose it just seems cool and bleeding edge to want to mutilate your body with one of these things...
I certainly won't even consider it. Nazi Germany comes to mind, marking folks for reasons of ID'ing them for whatever reason is not a good idea. SS is another thing that creeps me out, a system of identification, now illegally used all the time to limit people's freedoms. Business all the time limit doing business with someone if they don't provide a SS, yet that is illegal. When will it come down to the same with a RFID? I suspect sooner than later, especially if the government gets involved in the process, and it already has... FDA anyone?
1. Innocent human going about their daily business
2. Implantable RFID tag
3. ???
4. Profit.
Since it seems security devices are always being compromised, I'd hate to have to cut myself open every time one of these things had been likewise compromised.
I agree - an RFID watch would be much better - perhaps an RFID watch that can identify the person wearing it biometrically, even.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
You could just carry the tag. Or wear it. Would that be too hard?
Laugh all you want, call me stupid or whatever, but I can't get past that little mark of the beast thing.
...
It's like saying "Homeland Security, here I am! Track my every move!"
- They (incorrectly to their own knowledge) deny implications of RFID (in passports or otherwise) for the bearer's personal safety
- They want to force RFID chips inside passports
- Then they promise to shield it so the passport needs to be opened anyway - but could still be identified as e.g. a US one even when closed, and potentially still be read out with special (i.e. simply more powerful and/or sensitive) equipment, despite the apparent perception of security
- Unlike with optical reading, where the document can simply be put out of sight, the bearer has no way of knowing whether and when an RFID shield actually works
- Why pretend that only governments (or "the good guys" in general) would be able to procure RFID readers? This technology is not rocket science, and it could be every thug's dream come true (especially as the European Central Bank even seems to consider putting it into their money) - so "finally" for the nastier elements of society, remote assessment of who might be a "promising" victim e.g. for abduction, robbery or worse becomes possible
So there is always certain inconvenience -if not danger- to the bearer, but not a single valid reason for embedding RFID into a passport: If it needs to be opened anyway, and faster machine-readability than with the current (already standardized) printed text is required, a simple printed barcode would do, at much greater reliability. Make no mistake, if RFID is enforced even though it does not have any benefit in the proposed application, there have to be ulterior motives for its use - then, however, it is no conspiracy theory to suggest that future mischief is implied in this scenario.SCIENTOLOGY IS A SCAM.
I think hardware upgrades should not involve needles, scapels and sutures. Call me crazy.
Excellent troll, sir.
One must appreciate the irony of claiming to have nothing to hide while hiding behind an anonymous name.
s/current- and forward-thinkers/stupid people/g
Stupid people will believe that the persons in control of the RFID stuff are pure in their intentions, and that the system will not be abused.
- Pluses
* You're in a car accident or you collapse and you have to go to the hospital and they need a medical history.* You're child is lost and they need to find his address/phone number (this sounds incredibally pet like, I know. But the kid should be allowd to have it turned off/removed @ age 18 or younger if parents consent)
- Minuses
* Let's say someone finds a way to sniff the signal, and can open your car/house what have you* You want to take a job in the covert business..
* Anyone can track you
* If this takes off and business impliment it and you don't want to do it then you can't buy goods and what not. I personally would never do this. It's just wrong in sooo many ways, religiously and ethically.
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
Pedophiles will be caught, murderers can be tracked down, rapists will no longer get off.
Ah, the good ol' "Won't somebody think of the children?" defense.
Tell me, how will this implant allow you to catch a pedophile, when it's probably the guy you're trusting to watch your kid? Most of the time, it's NOT a stranger. You KNOW exactly where both of them are.
Here, let me rephrase a few things.
Political dissidants will be caught, Rebels will be tracked down, Scapegoats will no longer get off on "Reasonable Doubt" when their immutable movement logs have been forged.
I'd much rather go with something on a keychain. That way it would be a lot less painful if the world was taken over be a fascist government and you had to suddenly get rid of it and run away. As long as you could deactivate it in the event of theft or loss, like a credit card, I don't think it would be much of a problem.
Nice.
"laptops used to steal cars"
c'mon folks - were geeks, lets capitolize!
Make sure you get one with strong cryptography.
AFAIK most RFID tags are just glorified bar codes which tell you their number. If you are serious about implanting it somewhere then you need to make absolutely sure that no one can get access by spoofing your particular tag.
Personally I would choose not ot be tagged unless I was totally in control of when it could be accessed.
You do realize that unregistered people can post to Slashdot, don't you?
Passive RFID tags are easily cloned. Someone standing near you can scan your tag and have a clone. Takes about two seconds. You might as well leave the keys in your car and all your doors unlocked. There is zero security.
Remember how the early breast implants were all "bleeding edge" and awesome? Then we found out a few years later they may oh.. kill you? Same thing here I suspect. The people who decide to "be first" quite often find out 5-10 years later it harmed the body quite alot..
Now maybe it's just me but we hear a lot of stories about cancer being connected to various signals from things like mobile phones or microwaves. The RFID technology is still rather young and we don't know if it will have any sort of effect like this on the human body. Now would you implant a cell phone in your face with the current warnings?
You basicly sound either extremely lazy or just trying to be cool.. Neither of which is good for your health long term. Sit down and think about the next decade, consider what may or may not happen, how much it will cost and all these important things. Because once you've got it done it maybe too later to reverse it or any side effects you get.
I like muppets.
"i'm seriously considering jumping into this head first, being on the bleeding edge, and going with an implant"
i guess he will bleed when the docors cut him open to do the implant... is that what he ment by bleeding edge??
... Of having a small bump under my skin that sends out radio waves when close to a transponder, but I'd rather have it on a keychain or in a cellular phone - And of course, I'd rather have it used only in the situations I want it used in.
Of course, anyone with the money to implement this kind of thing should probably just give it to me instead. I'll open your doors the old fashioned way, with no need for a costly renovation or painful RFID implant! Yours for just $200,000 tax-free per year. As an added bonus, I'll even chew your food for you! What value for the price! Act now! I'm not sold in stores, and quantities are limited!
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
This guy spends his life blogging about how excited he is in the process of getting an implant. Sad. I pity the character. He really needs to get a life...oh wait, he doesn't want one. He's already part of the matrix.
And well you should fear the Beast ... because he is us.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
And RFID key or a card would accomplish the same thing. Why surgically implant one on yourself. At worst you are asking people to carve you up because they want to steal your car instead of just taking your keys or your wallet.
evil is as evil does
It seems that this is one of those cases where the crazy science fiction authors have pegged it.
On the one hand, there's this notion that crime will be a thing of the past because at any moment we can see where everyone is. Want to go hiking and then swimming and don't want to carry around a wallet? No problem since every store can immediately verify your ID and credit as you enter the building. Super conveniet. When you step in your car it will automatically adjust the seats, tune your 6 presets, adjust the volumes, load your phone number list into the car phone, queue your MP3s. Online shopping will be a breeze since your computer will have scanners to verify your ID point-to-point. Identity theft? No longer possible. And crime will be down. Want to figure out who graffitied a wall? Just check the perimeter logs and find the ID. Want to see who should/shouldn't be in a building? Check the entrance and hallway logs. After all, if you've got nothing to hide, why should you worry?
Then there's that other side... No implant? Then no credit for you. No purchases, no vending machines, no access to the school. Or maybe it will be an onerous process... Fill out a form, wait a day or two. In the clubs the twenty-somethings will politely turn away when you bring out *cash* to pay for a drink. What sort of freak pays with cash anymore?
But more than likely we'll accept the intrusions into our privacy because it'll be do damned convenient. We pay for our groceries and medications with credit cards, shop online for books (ohmygod!) with credit cards, attend subversive movies such as Jarhead or Fahrenheit 911 or Narnia and pay with credit cards, we book hotels, rent cars to travel to Omaha and Key West and pay with credit cards... RFID is just the next logical step.
(I just saw Gattaca so I'm in that sort of mood)
Is that this guy is doing it ALL himself.
He's not conforming to Big Brother, no Nazis are registering him on a long list of potential experiment candidates.
The whole RFID-implant issue has been around for YEARS, even DECADES before the technology became commonplace, and the concept of police-state controlling the populace through information for CENTURIES... and everyone is going to have an opinion on it.
This guy, however, is outside the system. He is a developer working on homebrew projects and, really, if he uses ANY sort of encryption at all, since it will be used on homebrew applications only, the information contained on the chip can be completely useless to anyone else, the government, RFID wireless hackers, anyone.
Frankly, I think your biggest problem will be functionality. There's a very good chance you're going to have this thing implanted inside you, and it isn't going to work the way you envisioned. What's the point of having the lights turn on when you walk in the door if you have to repeatedly wave your implanted arm in front of the RFID sensor on the wall where the light switch used to be? Being on the bleeding edge is fun until you discover the bugs. But then, that's part of the fun of the bleeding edge.
are you having trouble understanding?
- Kill me.
- Extract the chip.
- Put it in a small card that fits in your wallet.
- Profit!
Of course, by that time, every street corner and decent home (with people that have "nothing to hide") will have cameras aimed at them, so you'd never get away with it... right?1) As long as you "rolling your own" then you don't face much in the way of endemic risks by having an RFID implanted. It only becomes a major risk when the RFID's are standardized and then keyed to various large databases. As it is now, even you if your personal implanted RFID gets scanned, it means nothing to any scanner-system besides your own.
a r-engines.
2) What's the big deal with getting implanted? Just put a few in your regular "carry-ons" like your watch, your keyring, your cellphone, your sunglasses, a wedding ring if you wear one, etc. No risk of infection or other health problems and for the same reasons in #1 losing one more of them is low-risk because there are no wide-spread standardized systems. If EVERYONE's wedding ring unlocked their front door and started the car's engines, then you might have concerns, but as long as your system is a "one-off" a thief is more likely to steal your car with a slimjim than with a lost rfid-enabled watch.
PS - I own the patent on RFID-in-the-finger-ring-to-open-doors-and-start-c
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
You did say nothing, right?
Perhaps if this were force-implemented, the best security measure would be to make it self-shielding on demand. Say with an external button or one on the outer part of the chip, like a tickle me elmo doll or some such. That way, no random ocks could track you whenever they feel like it.
It'd be the equivalent of unplugging a NIC to make a computer network secure. Maybe plug-in arms/foreheads are the future?
Do not downmod posts "overrated" simply because you disagree with them.
There are other ways to supply that. Anyone with a serious allergy or medical condition will already be wearing an SOS pendant/bracelet that (so long as it stays attached to your body) can be used by trained medical staff.
1. Create website about some new and controversial technology, add Google Ads. ...
2.
3. Get slashdotted.
4. Profit!
I -knew- that you would have google ads before I even clicked the link.
Specialization is for insects. -Heinlein
Please mod the parent Offtopic: they were discussing tagging in #perl !!!
This sig rocks the casbah.
thanks. i now have a new car, a new house, some new credit cards, and a bunch of other neat stuff.
god bless the internet.
Rev.13:16:
Oh boy, where do I start?
"Head first" - implant in the forehead?! "Bleeding edge" - more like bleeding forehead. I wonder if I could get the sentence to convert to 666 using enough numerological gymnastics...
Having worked with Mikey for the last four years before he decamped to New Mexico, I can say that implanting an RFID tag into his left hand doesn't make him that different. He's still the same intelligent, enthusiastic, quirky geek that he was before the RFID tag.
The first time I met a vegetarian, or the first time I made friends with a millionaire, I had a strong reaction. They were so different from the people who I had met in my "sheltered youth." However, after having met them, seeing them eat tofurkey or watching someone decide they were going to augment their boat and car collection with an aeroplane made sense---it was a logical progression. It might be different and interesting and novel, but it's entirely within character. For that reason, seeing an RFID tag implant in someone who wore electric clothing doesn't seem like a big deal.
However, what is incredible is the splash it made with people and the media. People's reactions have been far stronger than I would have guessed, especially as this project is simply a logical step when you consider some of the other projects he has been involved in. You would have thought that Mikey was becoming a borg!
But it's not like the RFID tag interacts with his body in any shape or form. People with a pacemaker, or amputees with a bionic limb, or even people who wear cochlear hearing aids have far more sophisticated electronics imbedded or attached to their bodies. These don't seem to generate anywhere near the same reaction. I'm not sure why not. Perhaps it's because it's voluntary, perhaps because it seems to be for a whimsical use.
I am however worried about ubiquitous tracking. How can that possible be good? Britain for example wants to track EVERY car on the roads and then store the data for 2 years.
e 334686.ece
"Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.
Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years."
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/articl
Don't they make the kiddes read 1984 anymore? How much more blatant do things have to get before there is some sort of real effective reaction?
Oh I forgot it's for the children, and against the terrorists and pirates, nevermind.
When I read stuff like this, off the grid survivalist/back to the land hippies don't sound tin foil hat crazy, they sound like smart forerunners of an underground resistance to tyranny.
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
So you don't have to perform surgery everytime the tech gets better or you decide to rob a bank or whatever, why don't you just shove it up your ass?
that I'm putting in my body, will have salsa on it.
My sig sags.
There's no way in the world I'd voluntarily put an RFID implant under my skin. As others have pointed out, there are just too many downsides. However, there is one upside nobody has mentioned. The next time you go to a Shadowrun convention, you'll be afforded tremendous respect and deference. "That's the dude who is ACTUALLY CHIPPED!" they'll whisper, as they stride down the corridors of the Airport Hilton, black dusters swirling in the dry, vaguely stale air.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Haven't felt the desire to post on ./ for a long while but this is worthy of comment.
1) Someones paying you to do this either to promote the idea or test opinion.
2) You're clinically insane.
I expect the usual crowd will deal with point 1, if so I find this level of stage managed propaganda sickening and depressing. But I think point 2 is what's really worth exploring. Do you have some sort of masochistic streak? Seriously, I'm not ragging you, personally I'm not into body piercings and suchlike and it's one of those things that seems to me more than just an issue of taste and personal diversity, I think there are latent self harm issues at the root of all that stuff. Are you trying to be unique and different as an expression? If so I think you need to look more deeply at your life and the valuable ways you are already a unique human being. Take up an unusual sport or get a new hobby. Insering objects into your body that don't belong there is a whole can I don't want to open, so lets leave that there, but I really think the health risks are worth thinking about. I say *risks* because nobody knows. I say it as a scientist who was very recently suprised to see hard research on the power lines cancer link. Nobody thought breast implants were any risk till they started bleeding silicone into womens bodies after 10 years. I think you're very foolish to do such a thing. What if you need to go for a MRI scan? What if you find you start getting stopped at airport security? And what is hard to fathom is who the hell is going to do this for you? What kind of surgeon would risk their licence to practice by performing such a procedure. Or are you going to do this yourself with a penknife? The mind boggles.
You mean like to your home? How is this secure? I mean, truely, how? What your RFID only will respond to certain readers? Someone won't be able to have a portable reader connected to say a laptop that reads your RFID and uses that to program the correct response code to other readers?
...unlock my car...
I take it you didn't read the LA Times lately. For reference, go read this article and when you are done, do you REALLY think they won't be able to do something similar? In fact it will be even easier, they just watch a place that gets a lot of expensive cars, place a few RFID readers around, wait for you to leave and then walk up to your car and drive away. They wouldn't even need to spend several minutes "cracking" your car's code since they got it from you when you drove into the lot.
...log me on to my computer...
Get a fingerprint reader, or a smart card reader. Heck Sun has an entire system based on this for years, it will even move your active session from computer to computer (i.e. the applications you have open and running, your connections to other computers, the mozilla window on slashdot, the code you have compiling, etc...)
...control home automation...
Wow, you need to have a RFID "implanted" to do this? Why not a card or a chip, or widget that fits in your wallet? Why not that for ANY of the above? All you do with the implant is tag yourself for everyone else to see and track. A card/chip/widget can be easily changed. Same reason why you need to change passwords ever few weeks, it make it harder for someone to compromise and continue compromising your security.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
As far as convenience, I doubt you get much of a win here, either, because you need support from all the industries that provide identification services or devices. Well...if you just want to automate your car and home doors...you can add the necessary support yourself, but how useful is that really? Wouldn't the real value be "one RFID works everywhere"? You pay at a boutique, it scans the RFID. You go to a ball game, they scan the RFID, verify you purchased tickets online and in you go. Etc.
If it's going to really simplify things, it's got to be widespread. And it isn't right now. But again. Even if it was, I don't think it's much of a privacy issue. People with money and power already know whatever they want to know about you anyway, :-). If the FBI suspects you are a terrorist, you bet they can get into your life right quick and figure out where you spend your money and what you do with your time. If they don't get enough from your bank records, they can just follow you around if they are so keen. Sure there are steps to make it harder for them, but average citizens near population centers don't take those steps...and for the most part that's because they don't need to.
Not yet, anyway.
Why do you need a chip when your fingerprint or retina pattern would do the same thing? Better yet, they're significantly harder to duplicate and there's no chance for health issues.
We talk about RFID now because it's the only current technology we have developed which will function the way we want it to, and work consistantly. Give it 10 or 20 years though, and at that point we might have gattaca-esque technology which will make RFID obsolete. Would we need these tags if we had a device the size of a credit card which could read your DNA in under a second? Put that on your car to unlock it, and you don't need an implanted chip. Jumping on RFID chips now is probably akin to jumping on the 8-track bandwagon too early, and then getting burned by it later when casettes suddenly take off.
Personally, I think having anything put in your body that doesn't have to go there is a stupid risk to take, however small it might be.
SOMEONE CUT IT OUT OF YOU!!!
Thanks, but I'll stick to the flat metal thing with the notches cut into it.
The latest Slashdot meme.
I hear that people who don't do stuff become senile earlier.
You already don't write longhand probably. Maybe don't play an acoustic musical instrument, recite poetry or exercise regularly. At least keep memorizing random strings for authentication and some vestige of mental function.
One of the things with current physical keys is that if necessary you can 'lose' them, and no one else can open the lock. You can't do this with an implanted RFID key without ripping off your arm. This means someone can kidnap you, and they instantly have access to everything you have access to. There's no throwing your keys off a bridge or 'forgetting' your password, your presence is your password (not even something like a voice print, in which case you could simply refuse to speak).
Heck, if they were ruthless enough, they could simply rip off your arm if they don't actually need you. We don't currently have the technology to grab someone's brain and figure out his password, but a simple hacksaw would do the trick to get an RFID chip.
We always knew Comcast was corrupt, here's the proof: http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1909890&cid=34545432
I've been reading a lot about RFID implants in the past couple of weeks. I happened to stumble upon someone's site linking to an implant video. I had heard about their use in pets, but didn't think anyone was putting them into people yet. I'm all for it, personally. I plan to ask my doctor about doing the implant for me next time I visit. I hate fumbling with keys. I would love to unlock and open the door at the wave of a hand. I'm also into the import tuner scene, and a gadget like this would attract so much attention.
Last I saw, you could get these the size of a grain of rice. Why not just pierce your ear and stick it in the hole, or superglue it to your fingernail (which you'd have to redo periodically)
Here's a reason no one thought of for these... If there's any ferrous metal in the device, you cannot go into an MRI machine. Additionally, even though there may not be ferrous metal in it, the MRI can still cause inductive heating on the device which can burn you. This is fine, when you're coherent enough to tell the docs what you have. What happens if you are in a car accident or have a stroke, and they need to stick you in an MRI machine?
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Don't arrest the Illegals crossing the border, tranq them then tag them with permanant RFID implants. Preferably in the form of a suppository.
Equip the police with scanners and a list of IDs. Then all they have to do is scan the illegals, and fine the employers. It will pay for itself.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Obviously, you have no sense of how quickly technology becomes obsolete.
Otherwise, you wouldn't want to implant that technology into you.
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
...as long as it didn't pose any significant security risks, such as if it could only be read within a very short distance and/or if it could be disabled through some means. Just as long as it's secure and doesn't pose a health risk (which shouldn't be an issue) it'd be cool for the geek factor.
Thanks for the link, Agent.
I'd still rather have the bluetooth tooth, because I'm not into all that eye candy. =)
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
However, let's assume that this person WANTS the most high-tech solution imaginable. RFID tags are dumb devices with no meaningful logic, which means you can't do encryption key negotiation - or, indeed, any form of encryption at all. Anyone with a scanner can lift ALL of your keys with a simple RFID reader and can then impersonate you with impunity with ALL electronic devices.
If someone wants an implant - genuinely, truthfully, absolutely would die without one - then they should implant an intelligent device, preferably a small embedded general purpose computer. General purpose? Yes, then you only need one implant, which you can then program for ALL of your devices you want to control, rather than having one implant per device.
Strong, crypto would utterly defeat the RFID attack on cars mentioned in an earlier Slashdot story. It would also make the computer "unscannable" the way an RFID tag is, because it's no longer just a passive device. Further, an intelligent device could do ANYTHING you wanted, whereas an RFID tag could not. An embedded computer could monitor your temperature and control the thermostat accordingly, for example. An embedded tag could do nothing more than get crushed as the blood vessels expanded.
Personally, I would avoid implants. Implants can be thought of as deliberate splinters or deliberate cysts, depending on size. Both of these, when they occur naturally, can potentially turn nasty. The body really doesn't take kindly to foreign objects, if it detects them. When you've any kind of device that was probably not assembled in a clean-room environment, sterilized and completely clensed, there's a good risk that implants could carry unwanted hitchhikers. Even when it's all done properly, a good bruise near the implant could turn nasty. That's ignoring any chemical reactions between the implant and the body, which may have other unexpected consequences.
(You should also be aware of materials used. Materials that have a higher-than-normal level of alpha-particle emitters could seriously screw things up. The skin is thick enough to absorb alpha particles, in typical real-world conditions, which is just as well - soft tissue tends not to react too well to such things.)
The embedded computer shares ALL of the health problems of an RFID tag, though scaled up because it is more complex and involves more components. It also needs a power source, so you'll occasionally need to rip yourself open to replace the lithium batteries.
Now, there ARE ways to embed a computer in a person in a way that would minimize hazards on a day-to-day basis. However, there you're talking major surgery for the implant plus for each recharge. Surgery is, itself, extremely dangerous and not something you'd normally do just to add a gadget to your life.
It's possible to imagine surgical implants that COULD be recharged with less effort - such as enlarging the skull and using some of the space added, with a power outlet the bone can grow around - but we're talking serious sci-fi medical techniques here. Sure, there have been experiments involving wiring EEG devices directly to the human brain. Sure, even Stone Age medics could drill holes large enough to run a power outlet or an ethernet port. Sure, there are societies even today that deliberately reshape the skull. But to combine all of this AND enlarge an adult skull, not just reshape a child's... That is probably too complex for existing technology.
However, were implants to be a useful thing for society as a whole, a deep implant (such as in the chest cavity - if you can staple a stomach in half safely, you can wedge a matchbox-sized motherboard in there with absolutely zero impact), or a skull implant would seem to be far more resistant to damage, far more powerful, far more useful, far less toxic and far less likely to trigger an immune response.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I have to admit I am not that learned on the implants, but my first observation is that the line is drawn between people that would readily accept the implants and either conspiracy theorists that are paranoid about being tracked and religious zealots who feel it is the mark of the beast and a sign of the end times.
I'll pull the middle ground and consider other drawbacks.
1. How easy is the procedure to get an implant tag put in your body? How long will they last? Are the first ones (And Subsequent ones) going to be buggy forcing you into procedure after procedure to put in a working chip?
2. Is RFID forever? How often is a new and better RFID technology going to come out? Every 2 Years? Every 5 years? Every 10 years? How annoying would it be to have a yearly "Upgrade" to your body.
3. What are these RFID tags made of? Any possibility of an allergic type reaction by some people?
4. If your credit card is in your wallet, and you get mugged at gunpoint, you hand over your wallet. If the criminal needs whatever is in your thumb will we get muggings that include lopping off fingers?
5. What happens when 5 companies jump in the mix and you have competing standards. "Sorry, your implant is RFID+. You need RFID- to access this terminal." (Come back later with your second implant.) "Sorry, your implant(s) RFID+ and RFID- are no longer compatible. We have chaned over to RFID*."
Just random thoughts on things that could go wrong.
Carnage
I like being on the cutting edge, but implanting a chip under your skin is idiotic. It gives no greater benefit then if you were to just carry a card with a chip on it, except now you can't leave the chip at home. Whats the point? Universal credit cards have never become mainstream despite the possibility of creating them has axisted for up to a decade now. Why? because every company wants your wallet to have it's advertizing. (ie the card itself is ultimately an ad) So having a chip under your skin wont make consumption any easier. And there is no way you need a chip to open a garage door (use the garage door opener in your car! ....Anyway I degress, I just don't see any real benefit to an implant that can't be obtained by simply carrying a chip on a plastic card, or integrating a chip into a watch or bracelet.
Fool me once...shame on you, fool me twice...won't be fooled again (our president)
Sure, go ahead, treat yourself like a cheap pallet of goods at walmart, or like human cattle with an ear tag and a chip (mandatory by 2009, new law, all livestock get chipped).
I personally think it is nuts, and so obviously a big brother wet dream model as to make it a "line never to be crossed" issue with me. You really can't see this, the implications? Just extrapolate a little, use your imagination, think of the "bad" that eventually will come of this. And it will, bet your salary on it.
And voluntarily??? You actually find it difficult just to unlock the front door and get into your car that you need to do it with an implant? It's bad enough we have government jerks hinting at making this eventually manadatory, that they are seriously working on behavioral modifications to go along with implants (command and control in other words, eventual electronic slavery so you know and keep your place, epislon drone) but to help them along by "volunteering" and promoting the idea that it is "cool" is...well...
Eventually we will be sorting this chip implant business out and it will not be pretty. I know I will be on the "pure human" side, the one not connected to the borg hive mind.
I typically wear pants everywhere I go, and the places I don't wear pants, I don't think I need to be uniquely identified...or at least, I think I'm pretty well recognized just by my physiognomy, yuh?
So, please, instead of putting the proprietary and easily-obsolesced technological bolus UNDER MY GOD-DAMNED SKIN can I, yuh, just stick it in my pocket?
That'd be brilliant. Cheers.
"He [The Antichrist] causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on [in] their right hand or on [in] their foreheads, that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666" (Revelation 13:16-18, NKJV)
Thought I'd post the rest of this verse so that people who might not be familiar with it can see WHY exactly "religious-types" dislike anything that can be seen as the mark of the beast, especially anything that is mandatory.
Good news, It's a suppository!
You can't get an MRI once you've been tagged, so the nipple ring would be an improvement in the case you want a MRI for some critical thing instead of it having to be cut out of your arm.
--- As to make my comment seem, by comparison, more intelegent... doodie doodie doodie poop poop poop!
It seems that in a social acceptance point of view, the majortiy wouldn't do this and find it unacceptable. And give that this is still a free, at least in choice, country, I don't think this will ever happen in the near future.
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
Breast implants
The FDA pulled silicone implants to study them in detail. The claims of killing people were thoroughly debunked. Silicone breast implants that leak need to be removed, but about the worst thing that happens after a leak is having little lumps of silicone under the skin that move around.
This is psychologically disturbing in the extreme. Naturally, women who had this happen and then got sick for other reasons blamed the leak.
Saline breast implants are a genuine health risk if something grows in them because they aren't properly sterilized, but this is true of any surgical implant. Surgery isn't a walk in the park.
Silicone is essentially a neutral substance for biological processes. It just doesn't do anything. Silicon, like the casing on an RFID chip, is *completely* neutral. We've been putting things made out of glass in people for decades.
In an unusual circumstance, like a shattering blow to the area where the chip is implanted, the chip might break or be forced through the deep fascia, causing injury. Any such blow would cause far more serious damage anyway. The chip wouldn't be a major factor.
The radiation involved is lower than environmental levels were before humans evolved. No problem there.
The point I'm making here is that for both breast implants and these chips, the risks of the implants are no greater than the risks of surgery in general. You could have your arm cut open and stitched closed, with nothing else done, and you'd have about the same rate of dangerous complications. That's the best you can hope for with any surgical procedure.
If a thief is going to steal my key, I'd much rather them take my wallet or password than my arm. But that's just me.
Read "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin.
Then implant an RFID tag in your body if you still want to.
Sometimes you just don't want or even need to carry all of your information around everywhere you go...
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
sound like the perfect answer to what you need.
;)
why would you need to put something _extra_ in your
body instead of using what you already have?
how about a quick blood sample and DNA analysis
for example
amazing what people do with time and extra cash on
their hands. one of the smarter sci-fi heroes put it
once, "imagination my only limit, and i'll be dead
in a week.
and i'm saving my fleshy parts for stuff that glows. weee!
'at least I'm lucky enough to know it was my fault'
1. Register taggedlife.com domain name.
2. ???
3. Profit!!!
Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
You will be assimilated. Soon, we will unlock your BMW.
Kidnaps and kills you to extract your RFID tag then empty out your bank accounts.
While I consider the whole thing a very bad idea, there are advantages to having an RFID device, though there are no UNIQUE advantages that I can think of to having one implanted in you.
In other words there are substitutes that will do almost or exactly the same thing.
There are advantages to having an ID number that travels with you. Unique identification for banking transactions, secure facilities, hospitals, and prisons.
Prisons? Well, no one said the advantage need necessarily be for you. A "no one with this tag gets out of the building" rule. (yes, there are bad things that could occur, there are problems with this, but the question was about possible advantages).
There are advantages to being findable with a large transmitter/receiver. Hiking, etc.
Oh, let's see...what else.... Hmm. Well, some minimalists might like the idea of no longer needing to carry ID/credit card/cash/whatever. You could be sure children traveling alone on an airline were picked up by the right people. You could ensure that kidnapped children could be identified if ever taken to a hospital. You could identify more bodies (that hadn't been incinerated).
But all (or almost all) of these things could be accomplished by other methods. Nevertheless, they are advantages.
Personally I want a RFID implant, or implant a MP3 player, or cell phone, etc.
"Don't leave home without it."
"Freedom and Justice for All" is a registered trademark of The United States Govt Inc. Not available in all areas.
my girlfriend works for a company that makes medical implant devices, and they ahve to go through extensive testing for all the materials and parts of the equipment that is implanted. The body does degrade the materials over time (plastics or similar synthetics), and the various bits of kit are rated for various durations. the stuff that stays in you until you die (heart implants etc) are the highest rating from the little i have been able to gauge.
The ethics of RFID and privacy aside, i'd only trust an implant of any sort after the medical fraternity had done testing to make sure that the materials weren't going to get horribly rejected by the body, or the materials corroded or otherwise compromised by the body. Certainly wouldn't be getting it done for fun or in a lighthearted manner.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
Im just too paranoid for it. It's cool, but i dont want or need it yet. So lets see what they got next to offer.
Think about it this way:
When email started, the challenge was just to make it work -- get the bits from one machine to another. Now the challenge is making it useful in a sea of spam.
The same is true for what Sklar and Graafstra are experimenting with; they're just trying to make the technology work.
There's a big difference between making a technology work and making a technology work usefully in a world of nasty, exploitive, corrupt people.
Take care,
brad
>>Amal Grappsta
Anyone else read that as "Anal Grafster"?
I was wondering where the RFID would go anyway.
OVER MY DEAD, ROTING CORPSE
I know there is coming a time when it's going to be mandated by law. All the supposed financial benefits, medical benefits and security benefits are too great, and legislators that think they know best will deem them necessary for society.
Guess what? The day that law passes is the day I join the underground resistance, because I know I'm not alone in this.
Interesting timing... I just caught the Star Trek: TNG episode, "High Ground" I believe was the title, where Crusher is kidnapped by Finn, the "terrorist". There were a lot of very interesting ethical questions there... when is a freedom fighter a terrorist? Is terrorism justifiable when all other courses of action have been exhausted? I find these questions interesting because when the time comes, they will most assuredly call us terrorists. If that's the price, I'll accept the label, but I don't believe that's what we will be.
Well, like I said... keep that thing away from me, no chip going in this body willingly. Not while my heart still beats and my lungs still draw breath. Sound extreme? Am I way over-reacting? I hope for all our sakes that's all it is. But I don't think so. I see it as the coming battle for freedom of our time. I'm ready to fight. Are you?
I don't get the obsession with implanting RFID. Also, why is it that everytime someone rehashes some harebrained scheme, it becomes a "journey" that must be "documented" for posterity? This parallel obsession with hyper-convenience and having to tell everyone about it is getting old. I think I'm going to start a "Poo Blog". Yes, I know it's been done before, but I'm going to document my journey in trochaic hexameter. I'll do a podcast. I wonder what the social implications will be? What about the health effects? Will it generate ad revenue? What if the Number of the Beast is really 1232? Does Satan have opposable thumbs?
Being a developer myself, I am intrigued about building applications and solutions that will open my doors, unlock my car, log me on to my computer and control home automation.
I don't see how this offers any practical security benefits. Let's explore a possible holdup situation involving a standard punk and an "early adopter":
Punk: Gimme your keys or I'll cut you!
You: Sorry, no keys, I start my car with a microchip in my hand.
Punk: What the hell? Don't fuck with me! Gimme your keys!
You: I told you, I-... Urrghhrgh *Sounds of dying*
Nope, doesn't look too promising. Nope, not too promising at all... But maybe if you're reeeallly lucky he'll know about RFID tags and just saw off your hand instead!
Sendou Wave Kick!!
I'll let you know when I'm done cloning your tag, opening your doors, unlocking your car, logging into your computer and controlling your home automation.
{ - Generic Guy - }
This was the first word that came to me when I read this. No way I'd let anything be implanted into my body that hasn't something to do with health issues. Why wouldn't it be enough to have such keys which also have rfid chips inside them so it can give you the benefits of rfid, also could work as good old keys, you wouldn't need re-implanting it if new versions come around - sheesh - and if you don't want to take it with you then you could leave it.
Too much futuristic movies, cyber-fashion, and stupidity could easily drive us into a world of uiquitous surveillance, since after a certain percent of the people have it out of coolness and false eliteness then it's only a step to make it mandatory. I wouldn't want to live in such a world.
Thankfully this planet is not made up of a single culture and hopefully there will always exist places where people can choose how they want to live their lives. If not, I just hope this won't happen in my lifetime, or in my children's, or anybody's that I care about.
These cyber-techno-fashionist people should just have a little more brains before spreading their coolness.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
As I understand it, the procedure would be exactly like chipping your pet. If the chip is injected by a competent doctor or veterinarian, it should just leave a tiny bump. You could also wear it as jewelery (body or otherwise). Regardless, you might want to put it on with tape until you know where you want it.
I don't think the radiation is significant but there's probably no harm keeping it away from any important guts and strong EM fields.
I think it is safe but I wouldn't do it.
what i want to knows is what you ring up as at the checkout stand (you know fruit, veg, or deli... maybe just condiments) and how much per pound you're going for these days?
For those that might be interested there is a pretty big community at
http://tagged.kaos.gen.nz/
for people who are self RFID tagged. Amal and myself came up with the idea of a dedicated community forums last year and it's been growing and expanding since.
Full of useful rescources and information on the process and technologies of self tagging.
Enjoy!
OK so you don't need keys, what happens when their is a power failure?
You're locked out.
To prevent this, you have to have keys stored somewhere to avoid the problem, the same thing you do when you use keys to avoid being stuck when you loose your keys, so there is no safety advantage.
For me this looks like a stupid thing to do, the only "real" advantage is the 15min of fame of having implants, it would be much more intelligent to use watch or mobile phones to do the same thing..
Noo, there's plenty of ways you can charge it, such as magnetically, which is how middle ear implants are charged (if people had to cut inside their middle ear each time they wanted those charged, I doubt anyone would have 'em).
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Let's see you are going to wear a small implanted device (about the size of a rice grain) that broadcasts a radio key to unlock your car, your home, ID you for purchases.... YIPPEE! you see you just handed me (the thief) the keys to your identity. No amount of encryption etc needed. All I have to do is mimic the signal you are so kind as to provide me with and poof I'm in! thanks.
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
There are a few reasons why this could be an advantage but many reasons why someone (I) should not do this (most of them are long term ones). My top 3 reasons for not implanting an RFID Tag into my body: * I have to do regular checkups with my tog at the veterinary and from there i know that those implants (of the size of a rice grain) can wander around in the body. This is as far as i know no threat to your healthiness but its unpleasing as they can get unreadable. In this case they can get unreadable and you would have to implant a new one. * If for any reason you want to remove the Tag you need to cut it out (and i really don't like doctors ;) )
* I don't know how good they are protected against this but i think it should be possible to overload this devices in away that they hurt your body. And this would be a nightmare if such "overloading transmitters" would be available to "Script Kiddies". Imagine walking through a shop and some kids walk nearby you and blow your RFID Tag (ouch).
Well i think everyone should think more than twice if he implats Something intohis body
"Pedophiles will be caught, murderers can be tracked down, rapists will no longer get off"
:-p
Huh?! "Hold still for a sec while you're raping me, I'm just gonna scan your RFID chip so police can catch you"... you do know there's a different between RFID chips and GPS transmitters right? And, if you're worried about your wife, *call her*.
"will welcome RFID implants with open arms"
open arms, nice pun
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Consider this: I am a law abiding, gainfully employed, born in the USA citizen who, while not a big fan of Bush, supports our efforts in Iraq. I have no middle eastern blood yet I look like I could very well be middle eastern. For this reason I believe I am profiled far more than my fair share at the airport and selected for secondary inspection. I would gladly sport an implanted RFID tag that would instantly identify me as "OK". Let the tinfoil hatters stand in the security lines, I have better things to do.
there are some people who believe RFID chips are the mark of the beast. and it almost fits for the most part: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev. 13:16-18 although it also mentions that you can also name the beast or know his number, so I don't know how accurate this is, but I've read about a computer system that stores all kinds of information from bar codes and stuff named Bavarian Economic Accounting Statistics Terminal (B.E.A.S.T. for short) There are a few other tie ins such as the bible mentions those wearing the mark will have blisters and sores on the skin where the mark is. This is possibly caused by the body rejecting the RFID chip. I know it may sound alittle crazy, but just think about it before you put these in your skin, don't wanna unleash the wrath of God on yourself because you didn't heed a fellow slashdotter's warning ;-)
Okay, I have the implant in my left arm. I can imagine some situations when I simply want to switch it off. How do I do that? Carry around a remote control or an armband that shadows the thing? I think I'll stick with my keychain for a while....
I'll go for a fully specified and documented chip that comes with OSS software. I'll also hope that the impantable "chip" will be a bit more than a plain passive RFID tag (come on, there's room in there!) and so i'd want it to be able to "shut off" to maybe be flashable, to have some sort of memory, etc...
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
I have this hand held device that could "kill" your chip and leave you helpless...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
you are tagging yourself, or rather, allowing yourself to be identified wirelessly in some way. As technology changes, I'm sure you'll always be able to identify that you are within range of a device that you can then program to do what you want in that situation. It would not be advisable to have it work for your front door, car ignition, or anything else slightly important. But maybe lights, or flushing the toilet, or even turning off the light in the garage, or getting into an expensive club as a VIP All I'm saying is that nobody is putting your SIN# in your neck. You're putting a random nothing, like your garage door opener, which I'm sure can be changed without surgery.
Tokyo Cabs to Try RFID Payments
_ cabs_to_t.html
h apter=13&verse=15&end_verse=17&version=31&context= context
http://www.smartmobs.com/archive/2004/10/19/tokyo
Revelation 13:16 - 17
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&c
Just combining...
And what if there's nothing behind the door until it is being opened?
.. that way you can get a backup in the other ear as well, and it's much easier to update when a new model coems out...
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
It's a short step from cool to compulsory. But aside from any other concerns, would it actually contribute anything to your quality of life? It's hard to imagine any scenario where it would.
Do it. Take the mark!!!
Karma? Sorry, i don't believe in superstition. http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz
...that stands for FREEDOM and all convinience!
Immediatly, RMS comes to mind with his value of freedom higher than convenience...
"Being a developer myself..."
Must be one of those developers, developers, developers...that don't ever get a clue...!
I use to sell RFID. The implantable IDs have a tendencey to migrate. You cannot control where they go and could end up in your heart. If you are truly concerned with universal access I would suggest looking at a Bluetooth Headset, or having the RFID device mounted in a ring or other jewelery. To the poster that suggested that you could mount it in an earing hole, The read distances for the implantable devices is typicaly less than 3" and you would look funny putting you ear to every lock. The RFID devices are a chip with a small copper winding for an antenna encapsulated in a glass tube I dont think it would explode in an MRI but there is enough airspace between the glass and the tag itself that it is easily crushed.
You're right. You should stay away from this stuff. Only those with a "good" imagination should have control.
It would have cost him thousands of dollars to register too. Of all the selfish things. He could have just paid obscene amounts of money to give up his anonymity. It's the cool thing to do you know.
i suspect a looming generation will embrace chipping themselves in much the same way tatoos and piercings have been embraced. Multiple specialized chips will be a source of pride for the intiated. Poping popular designs in and out will will be not such a big deal. i would if i were young again. but i am not and i have grown to take comfort in the foibles of pure organic functionality.
Suggestion: if you're righthanded use the left arm ;-)
Sig was kidnapped
Really? I thought I had read that the number of crazy people has has actually stayed pretty constant for the last 2,000 years.
In other news, the next DARPA grand challenge is probably going to be "design a robot that hunts RFID-carrying humanoids" ;-)
I would not start with implanting RFID chips and then trying to make sure that my home is compliant with that RFID chip. The other way 'round is probably much simpler: Automate your home first to a single standard. When you've got that working from an RFID chip in your wallet, implant the RFID chip in your body.
Right now I'm carrying around three individual keys just to get into my home and garage. And I don't even have locks on my windows. My previous place had that, and to open all doors and windows there would require at least six keys or so. Yes, I did have matching cylinders, but a small window lock or aux. door lock does not use the same size cylinders used in the front door. In my car, I only need one key for ignition, opening and closing the doors, opening and closing the boot, and closing the windows. That's what I want for my house too.
Then, I want my car key and home key to be identical (or, put in other words, a system where I have a universal personal key and I can sort of "upload" that key profile to my car and house, so that they all work with that single key).
Then I want that key to be usable for my parents place as well, and for the office. Obviously, we need to distinguish between "owner" and "user": I need to be identified as "owner" to my own place and car, but as "user" to my parents place, so that they can lock me out if they so desire.
Then, I want to be able to replace that physical key with an RFID-based key. Or maybe USB-based, or based on biometrics, or whatever.
And only then would I consider implanting that RFID chip into my body.
I fear that if we do this the other way around, you get the same situation as credit cards/debit cards/customer cards we have now: each individual organisation that you get in touch with gives you a unique ID token (read: RFID chip) which can only be used for that specific task. How many credit cards/debit cards/ID cards are you carrying around in your wallet right now? That's at least the number of RFID chips you're going to get implanted in your body. Unless we, as consumers, make sure that there is ONE common standard and infrastructure for RFID chips, to which everyone who legitimately needs it can subscribe.
And note that this problem is already happening as we speak. Dogs and cats are getting chipped so that the vet can find the owners if the animal is lost or run over or whatever. But if you have an automated cat flap, it is not able to read that chip. You need a collar with a second chip to operate the flap. And maybe a third if you have an automated food dispenser (not commonly used on pets, but farmers use them a lot for cows).
Of course the security implications of a single, multi-purpose RFID chip are tremendous. I'm not afraid that somebody is going to hack off my arm to get to my RFID chip. I'm more afraid of someone downloading the information from my RFID chip without me knowing it, and putting it on his RFID chip. This will be a very hard to solve issue.
It's like asking to be put in prison just so you can have a toilet right next to your bed.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
I'm surprised at the response so far. I'd do it because I'd love to be without the worries of my keys. Suppose you go swimming, or come home with two hands full of shopping bags? The door of your home/car is open. It is closed when you're gone. No worries. No tripple-checking the door when you go on holidays.
There's plenty of stuff that surgeons leave in your body and can withstand a long time. And inserting or removing a tag is not exactly open heart surgery.
In contrast to body jewelry, once inserted it is guaranteed not to be lost. You don't want to go home in your car only to find out that your RFID ear ring is MIA on the beach.
Bert
Make sure you get an implant in a part of your body you don't mind losing. If theives learn about it, they'd probably prefer to cut you up rather than take you along to rob your house (or whatever you have "protected" with RFID). I seem to recall a man who lost his finger to car theives for a similar reason.
I do not know who James Orwell is, but "1984" was written by George Orwell .
617B3B7F7E7C7D7F00EOF
So you're going to get an RFID implant. Which RFID implant do you want? You mentioned using RFID to access your vehicle? Are you going to keep the same vehicle for a long time? What happens when you trade it in? Want to drive your spouse's vehicle? Borrow a friends? Forget about using one RFID to control multiple vehicles. Do you see GM/Ford/Toyota/Hyundai working together now? Where on your anatomy do you want to place the RIAA chip, or the WinTel chip? Take a look at your key ring and wallet. How many access devices do you have? If you're still fairly young, on your next visit to your parents house, look at their key rings. Pick some keys at random and ask what they open. Parents don't know? At least you'll have some medical records to help you figure it out.
I am intrigued about building applications and solutions that will open my doors, unlock my car, log me on to my computer and control home automation.
I am not so lazy that I'm willing to sacrifice privacy in the name of such insignificant conveniences.
Nothing would be a step as big as this towards the big brother.
Read radical news here
If I am ever forced to accept an implanted RFID, I'm gonna make'em put it in my butt so that the cops can KMA if they ever arrest me.
Also, I think it'll be fun riding the scanner at the grocery store.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
I was wondering what the Slashdot community think about this?
Well I for one think you're a complete moron.
Well my idea is a tad more complex but I think in this age and time its doable. Just like drivers license and other type of ID have an expiration date. Something contained in a nanosized enclosure that could be injected to the bloodstream and doesnt degrade until X amount of time could happen. Like every 5 years.
.02 cents
I would submit myself to that, I find it to be hassle-less in some cases, as long as there are no medical disadvantages.
my
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
WTF? That one dude must have shammed about a pound of hair in along with it. http://www.electric-clothing.com/images/pics/1024x 768/chipped-2.jpg
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
markofthebeast, 666, Revelation1317
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
Please, I have two words for you, Microsoft and Goverment. I will never be implanted with something that marks me as a possible target of tracking. I also feel that it should not be manditory to tag animals as well because it is just more Governent control with a feel good label.
Try it on you! I ll wait for 10 yrs to see what happens to you :)
Call it RFID implants or whatever. But you're basically talking about THE MICROCHIP. I've been warning people about this for YEARS: http://en.xiando.org/index.php?title=2006-05-02:_T he_freemasons_really_do_want_you_microchipped
0 704bajabeachclub.htm
_ -_Freemans_Dark_Side agrees with me on the NO MICROCHP FOR ME issue. Like he said it: "I'm not taking it. So I've jumped the train already.".
So has other activist on the Internet like Alex Jones: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2004/04
The ruling elite (who are the real terrorist behing 9/11) want the entire population to have a microchip. Chip'em all. TOTAL CONTROL.
I'm not taking it. NO WAY. I seriously do expect all my assets to vanish when the (RFID) microchip replaces credit-cards and becomes a requirement to buy and sell anything.
The Freeman: http://torrentchannel.com/The_Freeman_Perspective
Remember this post, folks. Don't let them Sneak It In slowly. View their evil goal: Microchipped population. And remember how fast we went from a no cellphones society to everybody-has-one. SAY NO TO THE CHIP!
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Implantable rfid talk is a clever ploy to get people to realize that there's no comparison between a chip with an id and a million naturally occuring body and behavioral biometrics. Then you say, "Hey, we don't need chips that are easily hacked when we can use biometrics." End result: people trying to bring about a track and trace biometric world psychologically move the populace closer to their goal.
The idea of an RFID chip as being end-timish is actually a very astute observation. Christian prophecy states that there will be a time when everyone will be required to have a number to buy or sell or to own property. Until the advent of the computer, databasing and the shrinking of the world theater, this hasn't been a real possibility.
o dID=79377
Between the Real ID Act that will require all US Citizens to have a National ID by 2008 and RFID chip implants, I think it's more than plausible. I will not be participating in either for religious reasons...it will be interesting to see how that works out for me and the few 100k people who see it coming and have similar concerns (not too well, I'm guessing).
I won't be aggressively fighting the system or anything of the sort (I have a morgage, wife, kid, dog, house, car - not the compound dwelling type or anything), but there is a point in time where I have to give legs to my faith and opt out of something that I believe is not in my best interest based on my primary citizenship in a Kingdom that isn't necessarily governed by US laws.
Don't get me wrong, I think the US is generally not interested in doing all the wrong things, but I can't have allegiance in 2 places, so any use of RFID technology or world-government-esque numbering / trackng system that raises red flags for me religiously will have to be something I peacefully decline. Glad you said what you did.
Katherine Albrecht writes an interesting book series on RFID chips, "Spy Chips."
https://secure.endtime.com/apstore/product.asp?Pr
MRI
Metallic objects in the body and MRIs don't mix.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
No and fuck no. At first glance it sounds cool. Hey, I can start my car, log into my machine, open my house, make a purchase all by walking up to a scanner. They know who I am because I have this unique RRFID chip embedded in my (name your body part here). Hey, now K-Mart knows I walked in their door and what I bought, even though I paid cash. I am chipped and so are the goods in the cart, and all of it was scanned on the way out. Hey, now my wife knows I went to that strip club, bcause their RFID scanner nailed me as I walked though the door, and the local blue noses got a court order releasing the records and put the info on their website. Hey, now my RFID tag is no longer unique - someone duped it and used it to steal my ID and get into my house, my accounts, my car, my life. Waaaaay too intrusive. I am going to run for president on an "I will leave you the hell alone for four years and make sure everyone else does, too" platform.
...between men and animals. Only live stock gets tagged. I'm surprised anyone considers to tag himself without being forced to.
Tagging yourself is like saying "Hey BIg Brother, come and watch over all my steps."
Can anyone explain to me the benefit of implants over carrying one around in your pocket?
www.nonais.org
RFID all animals. Let the USDA know your GPS cordinates. Mad Cow spreads, expect incoming missile.
nuff Said.
This is the greatest misconception of RFID.
RFID is NOT a tracking mechanism. It is a method of storing a large amount of data in a very small place, for _tagging_ purposes.
As x2A said, it is not a GPS transmitter. Embedding a GPS transmitter in your hand would result in a rather abnormally large bump.
.. nobody will make fun of me and my tinfoil hat!
"Please take of your tinfoil hat to pay for your tomatoes. Thank you, Sir."
...the guy sitting out in a parking lot with a directed RFID reader, stealing your identity as you walk into the grocery store.
Implantable RFID in humans is as dangerous an idea as I've ever heard.
Look, governments have historically used identity documents to track and sometimes murder their citizens. Iraq did it, prior to the 2003 U.S. attack on it. China still does it. (do a find for "id card") (Granted, these abuses are all based on national ID cards. But the technology is irrelevant, because the identity being checked is the same, and both technologies reveal much of the same information to the reader.)
The larger point needs to be made: If the government has no reason to identify you -- and why would it unless you're suspected of a crime or traveling internationally -- then why do people need ID cards/implanted RFID chips?
To the developer who posted this article: Are you a member of a cattle herd? Seriously, WTF is wrong with you? People like you who blindly promote technology for technology's sake, IMO, are idiots. Technology is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
In any case, it appears that my predictions of popular RFID implants are speeding along quite well. Mandatory implants of all U.S. citizens in 20 years, here we come! All hail the new totalitarian tracking state!
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Well I have - it's called privacy.
I guess my only question would be "What is the difference between an RFID tag implanted into your body compared to one mounted on say a flash drive, ring, necklace, or other devices outside of the body?" The only answer to this question that I have summized is that having the tag inside your body means you essentially don't have to carry it around! I really would like to know of the other reasons why having an RFID tag inside your body would be better than carrying it around besides the minor inconvenience.
I am of the opinion that the 666 stuff in the bible is designed to freak people out and make them thrash around and fill up with lots of fear and chaotic feelings which specifically serve the Beast. God doesn't care what you do. God is infinite. God is everything, 'good' and 'bad'. A piece of God, (the dark side), might certainly issue instructions and fear-mongering through books like the bible to a bunch of other pieces of God, (us humans), but how you react to that fear mongering is up to you. There is no punishment at the pearly gates. That's bullshit. Punishment comes from little pieces of God with negative intent; our slave drivers and masters. You can avoid that pain by being careful and staying aware and acting smart.
Running around in fear of getting the 'Mark' is bullshit.
I'll avoid RFID for my own reasons. Not because I am instructed by some bullshit book.
-FL
Assuming you are not evil, the fact that you support the U.S. efforts in Iraq means you are hopelessly clueless.
There is an awful lot going on that you have no knowledge of. You would benefit enormously from some intensive reading and searching.
Good luck!
-FL
Lighter than blood, they swim around and eventually rise up to vessels in your brain and ear tracts.
Not so good for you.
-FL
I'm not a religious nut, but the idea of implanted RFID creeps me out, and makes me immediately think of this...
Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
How ya like dat?
I'm so glad I know who you are Mr. NitsujTPU.
I wonder if these guys were in the crowd who condemned the idea when it was presumed the eeeeeevil government would be doing the implanting?
There are already proof of concept hardware devices that can do relay attacks. (Attacker brings a briefcase near Victim's wallet, and his buddy at the Mobil gas station outside is relayed the signals. The relay doesn't know what data is passing through it, but the Mobil RFID base thinks it's talking directly to victim's tag.) So you better have some security based on more than just an RFID exchange.
Implanting a RFID is relatively easy - just a large sized needle to place it under the skin - and also fairly easy to take out that way too. The ones that have been used in pets without problems for YEARS! are covered with an inert plastic that also has been used for years in people, without allergic reactions. Yes I guess that if you did develop a large bruise,AND it became infected that the implant could get infected too, but you'd prolly' need medical attention anyway if you had an infected bruise.
Alpha particles!? WTF? - these implants are passive - they need a radio beam to power them, so that they can broadcast back. They don't need a power supply If you did implant a computer that needed a power supply, like a pacemaker, , maybe you could charge it via induction. An Alpha Nuke source emitter would generally have it's alpha particles stopped by the inert casing. Alpha particles are generally stopped by a piece of paper.
No, putting an implant deep into the abdominal cavity is a bad idea. Yes it would be more protected, but any surgery in the abdom cavity can cause adhesions, bowell obstruction, etc. There's a reason why all pacemaker batteries are placed under the skin by the chest/armpit - it's safe.
Having said all that, I still think an implantable RFID is a stupid idea, and wouldn't get one, but for security reasons, not for health ones.
..........FULL STOP.
All a theif has to do is sever the limb with the rfid tag. I'd prefer to keep things out of my body thank you very much.
Just because you can implant RFID, or even just use it any one of the ideas that are mentioned, doesn't mean you should. There are just too many problems with RFID (which other's have mentioned already) that make me think twice about using it at all. To say nothing of implanting it in my body.
The ones they use I am told open a lot of doors in the entertainment industry.
I read that as Anal Grafts and thought, "God above, if that's how you implant RFID, then why would anyone do it?"
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
big stupidity.
remember, anything useable for good is useable for bad.
ask mister nobel, founder of dynamite nobel.
possible bad applications:
- you haven`t paid this months rent, no you wont get in.
- you havent worked 8 hours yet, mr wageslave. no going to toilet for you.
- since your re-sold online-banking account data from CEO et al shows you just got yourself
a few grand from the bank, we picked up your car location from gps, cracked your car
with faked RFID, robbed you the money and think about legging your organs because your liver
is needed somewhere near liverpool - all possible because we could sniff you out literally
from 10 feet ?
i can add another 50 to the list, if you like.
oh yes, ì do think like a bad person. thats my job.
What's the difference between implanting yourself with a chip and implanting your watch with a chip? They'd both be in the same area, both be convenient, both would eliminate the need for credit cards and keys. BUT you can take a watch off, and you have the added benefit of keeping your body intact. Unless you're one of those strange people who are addicted to body modification...
So, what happens if someone copies your personal mark^H^H^H^HRFID tag? Do you get cut open again? Like cattle...
Then you wouldn't even have to plug your own site on slashdot! :p
I'm surprised this passed as "news for nerds" and where are the "Tagged, your it" Tshirts
** BTW, the Tshirts are now (c) 2006 by Stephen Shimatzki ** Proceeds to benifit my little peanuts college fund, contact if your interested in using this copyrighted phrase on a tshirt...
--- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
That said, however... I disagree with the grandparent entirely. We all have something to hide, not because we are doing anything wrong, but simply because we all do things at times that are, and indeed ought to be, private. While the government might claim, for example, that they aren't interested in knowing how frequently or in which rooms you have sex, the fact that somebody else who you do not know would have the ability to find out about it if cameras were installed in one's own home is more than just a little unsettling to people that are not interested in being exhibitionists. Ultimately, such private but still completely legal activities are really none of anybody else's business but those that people freely choose to disclose that information to.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
This technology should be broadly outlawed as restricted implants:They are not necessary,unlike heart implants for .
Arguing about using this technology on animals as reference isn't changes the
fact they are technically "slaves" of the owner who implants them.
We are not "slaves".If some mindless sheep likes to be tagged its not a reason for legalization.
This implant = trading your freedoms,privacy and health for
dubious promises of "better life".
Be RFID
Be VERY RFID
-- It's shocking how few people have actually bought merch with that amusing and relevant message.
Has anyone else read The Traveler by John Twelve Hawks?
The concept of putting a chip into one's hand is a big part of this story (a sort of conspiracy theory which takes Big Brother to a whole new level).
In this book, it's a total loss of freedom. The chip has a GPS as well as security clearance information. If a person breaks out of their routine, they have to respond to computer generated questions about why they chanced their habit, why they went their, etc.
It's a pretty good book but not all reviews have been good. I'm still waiting for the next as it is supposed to be a trilogy. Unfortunately, the author is "off the grid".
I can see a few benefits, but I'd rather live "off the grid" before some computer can document my whereabouts at all times. (Now, don't get started on cell phones, credit cards, etc. I know that I am on the grid because I like the good things in life but I'd like to think I could disappear if I wanted or needed to. I'd hate to have a society controlled by something as inhuman (not inhumane) as a chip.
I would never do it willingly.
I may be weird, I may be old fashioned, but I like my freedom. We are losing enough of our freedom as it is. It really scares me sometimes. And yeah, I do read the conspiracies and have a few of my own... *shrug*
Just my thoughts,
Kris
Remember when Windows were washed, mice were trapped and UNIX guarded the harem?
Some might argue that the security is greater because a theif can't remove it the implanted RFID. Violence and robbery go hand in hand, theives already stab and shoot on occation for the contents of your wallet. I recall reading an incident in my local paper years ago where a mugger used a steak knife to torture an ATM card pin number from a person. Already, theives have removed finger tips to obtain the goods they want.
While such a device, barring electronic exploits, will increase the security of your possessions, they decrease your corporeal security. Robbery depends on personal intimidation, the victim is being offered a choice between the loss of a possession or the loss of their physical well being. An external device, be it a traditional metal key, an RFID wrist watch, sticker, nose ring or whatever leaves this choice intact ... you can surrender your RFID nose ring, and control of your possession or take your chances with offered violent confrontation
An implantable device differs only in that it can't be readily removed. Totiltarian state slippery slope type arguements aside, when confronted with the choice "your money of your life" what are you going to say ... "nope, you can't have it, its buried in my forearm!" Somebody who wishes you enough malice to point a weapon at you and actively consider taking your life in exchange for your possession might not see this obsticle in the same light as you.
Cutting out an implant, or amputating the attached limb might seem to be excessive escalation to you and I. A person who considers taking your life a realistic option might consider walking off with your forearm a more paletable alternative. Even if they just cut it out, do you really want the disfigurment, injury, the risk of catching whatever diseases the knifes last victim had, the pain?
In short, the point of security isn't to be ultimately secure. I don't want my car to be 100% impossiable to drive away without my involvement, I only want it to be hard enough that it might not be worth the effort. The old fashioned metal key in my pocket is the ultimate security measure for me ... its possession secures my car when I'm away and its surrenderability secures my person when I'm near it.
Well my understanding is that RFID's don't have their own power source, they use power from the transmitter. This, as we know, means the amount of power it can use follows the inverse square of the distance rule... and of cause, the signal it sends back out will also be effected by this, so you're looking at over twice the inverse square rule.
So yes, if an RFID scanner picks you up, it knows where you are... you're standing right next to it.
But if you program your own chip to use on your own house/car/whatever, then it'll do nothin, as you don't have to connect your house to this big bad government database to help track you, and any other scanners will just see the code you put in, which doesn't have to identify you in any way.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
And all the sheep said, "BAAAAA BAAAAAAA!"
What if it doesn't work and you're left digging the thing out of your skin? You could try jewelry or a badge first before you commit to the "chipping"
Well, screw my mod points. This class of arguments pro-RFID ticks me off.
If you are worried that medical staff will not be able to provide you proper medical history, you do not need to implant the damn thing on you -- a simple dog tag containing the RFID thingie would suffice. At the hospital they'd scan the dog tag and they'd access your history. No implants, no abuse.
Now, if people get worried that they would lose their dog tag in the event of, say, a car crash, all I have to say is that, if the dog tag came off your neck that easily, I'm pretty sure the RFID thingie, wearable or implanted, would be the least of your concerns.
In short: implants are stupid when you can just force people to wear it the same way drivers are forced to carry their driver's license around.
Hey they're your eyes.
:)
Just don't come crying to me when you've had to pop 'em out with a warm spoon
Seriously.
How lazy are we becoming that we'd want an RFID tag to open the door for me to my house, car, or office? Use your damn keys!!! Pressing the button on a fancy car key is too inconvenient now!?
Use RFID correctly, for making serial numbers for things. NOT for making the human race even more autonomous in their daily lives that it appears we are becoming part of the Matrix more and more.
Perhaps you can build something around the RFID, using the RFID technology as the communications subsystem and have a simple microcomputer setup to do challenge response work.
Remember, keys were not invented to give you something to jingle in your pocket or purse.
Supreme Granter of Doctor of Obviology Letters ("A FIRM Command of the Obvious")
For some it may be cool to have a light turn on when they walk by, or have their computer log log them in automatically. Not for me. Cool to me is knowing the tomato in the spaghetti sauce I just made, was vine ripened in my back yard, rather than sitting in the back of a truck for a week. Cool is knowing that my well insulated house, with solar and geothermal heating and cooling reduce my energy consumption and help out Mother Nature. Cool to me isn't the gadgets I own, it is the love and joy in my life.
Besides, the soviets banned cell phone use due to potential effects from having a radio transmitter so close to your head. Meanwhile we of the western world loved them. Reports have since started coming out about the negative effects of the radiation from cell phone on peoples brains - increased frequency of tumours and the like.
If that doesn't hint at my answer to putting an RFID in my body, I'll be blunt. No - not me!
In my home town a few years ago, they made fake debit card machines which looked legit but stole your PIN & account information. There's no reason they couldn't do the same for biometrics.
The big difference between what we have now and biometrics is it's a lot easier to get a new bank card than it is to get a new retina.
Biometrics might be useful in some circumstances, but as a bank card substitute, forget it.
Expected time to finish is 1 hour and 60 minutes.
Instead of implanting it, it might be easier to buy a Swatch Access (www.swatch.com). These watches have a programmable chip + RFID on board (e.g. they are used for access to skilifts).
Advantage: no surgery, you wear it all the time, you can take it off and if technology progresses, you can replace it very easily.
Sounds better to me...
Well that's really where things are these days, the government has unlimited capacity to detect you and your actions in physical space. it's really unnerving and depressing, but alas, perfect law enforcement is possible when every particle in space can be detected and recorded - all infractions of the law will be registered in databases. if you could imagine model of the world constructed atom by atom (existing in digital space, of course): in this way, [i]everything[/i] in physical space could be recorded (possibly with satellites?) yeah, so i was wondering about the social consequences of that, instead of rfid chips. i actually carry around a primtive rfid device, it's called a credit card. i use it so i don't have to carry cash (a wallet-sized weight in your pocket, over time, can cause asymmetry in your hip and legs). yes, its true people can steal my number and charge helluv crap on my card, but it's also true that almost all point-of-sale locations are videorecorded or logged (meaning the perpetrator, theoretically, should always be known)
Why implant? Fot the romance of it? To be the ultimate geek? There are plenty of ways to keep an RFID on one's body without implanting it. The whole idea of putting the thing under the skin is simply a novel fantasy as attractive to some as a nose piercing or a tattoo.
"It's possible to imagine surgical implants that COULD be recharged with less effort" My electric toothbrush recharges via induction with no direct electrical connection. This would certainly work for an implant as well. A person willing to implant a live electronic device in their body is way past being worried about possible effects from exposure to magnetic or electrical fields.
My weird artistic roommate in college decided to make a short film of himself piercing his nipple with a nail. First he froze his nipple with a frozen stuffed clam (I kid you not!) then, holding the nail in a pair of vice grips he shoved that sucker through. You could even hear the little pop as it went in. Then he put in a nipple ring and bandaged it up.
Now, that's pretty funny, but what happened next makes the whole story hilarious. He was also a martial artist. About a week later, he had the bandage off his nipple and was sparring in the dojo when his partner hit him with a knife hand across the chest. About 30 seconds later said partner stops and stares in horror at the large bloodstain oozing across his shirt. Turns out he'd ripped that nipple ring clean out.
He showed me the ring later, still with the little piece of nipple stuck to it.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
a) I would always want to be able to disable the transponder on such a device myself - no feasible with subdermal implant.
b) If the database gets corrupted for a given application I would want to be able to reprogram the device -- again not feasible with subdermal implant.
c) As mentioned elsewhere - RFIDs in their current incarnation are nothing more than identification beacons. I would prefer a device that was smart enought to know when to respond and when not to respond, and furthermore encrypt the data it was sending across the ether (much as it is advisable today to have a VPN server behind every non-trusted gateway to authenticate and encrypt traffic from an unsecure network into a secure network).
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
I would avoid an RFID implant for the same reason that I want an iPod connection in my car: Installed technology can become obsolete. I don't see what's wrong with a bracelet dogtags. My brother and I wore dogtags when we were kids.
You know.. the one by your right shoulderblade.
Shoot! Now it cas become an INconvenience.
Don't they realize how easy it is to walk by one of these implanted persons with an RFID reader; then with your copy of their transmitted ID, make your own and impersonate implanted wearer? It doesn't stop there; you could re-program their device with another ID, perhaps with the ID of a known felon or such. All this can be done a few feet away from the carrier. It has even been proven possible to re-program an RFID to arrange a buffer overflow against the reading application, or just attack the reading system from the start. Sounds like a bit of trouble for a non-secure ID system; cachet zero.
I've often wondered. Why do you actually need to have physical access to the batteries to recharge them? I know my toothbrush, my razor, my phone and a number of other devices that I use every day use electromagnetic induction to recharge the batteries of devices. It seems more and more things are using it every day ... so why not your pacemaker or any other type of implantable device too?
*sigh* This is a myth. It is illegal for the government to use SS for other things. Private entities can do what ever they want with it. Much in the same way a private group doesn't have to obey the first amendment.
Here's more information.
http://www.usdoj.gov/04foia/1974ssnu.htm
I find being offended by me offensive.
They may not do it the same way with people, but have you ever seen the needles they use to implant the RFID capsules into animals? I worked at a company that was doing engineering work for a cat food company that tested flavors of food on cats implanted with ID chips. Our company had received samples of the RFID tags to use for testing and they came packaged in individual syringes. These things were gigantic! Think of the ice core drills they use in the arctic or that giant auger they used to dig the Chunnel. Okay, maybe that's hyperbole. Basically, it's an over-sized novelty needle that can fit the 1/8" diameter tag inside while taking a personal core sample in the process. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not be trepanned for a dubious gain of convenience.
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
the very nature of the sheeple, which would normally just accept such "improvements" as "easy" or "secure", will allow anti-RFIDers to campaign against them using "the Mark of the Beast". There are plenty of fundies and moderately religious people who would voice an opinion against RFID simply to avoid any possible MOTB scenarios. I personally find such sheepishness to be both grotesquely facinating and discusting, but I'll take whatever weapons I can get. Remember, just ask these people if they would mind wearing a combo mic/video/gps ankle bracelet whereever they go and see what they say. And if any moron gives you the "well I have nothing to hide, good people shouldn't be afraid if they have nothing to hide", they probably deserve a beating. They are a threat to you, your descendants, and the true freedom of mankind.
Did you know that you can be apathetic to apathy? Not that I give a shit...
Investor: What in the world are people going to use these for? It just seems like an invasion of privacy and there's NO security, so really.. how is this useful?
Inventor: Oh, uh.. uh.. home automation! Yes, that's a good idea, wouldn't you like the lighting to go how you want when you walk into a room?
Investor: Umm.. dude, I can just flip a light switch. I don't even have a dimmer, so there's no point in talking about 'lighting' and what if I don't want the living room the same temperature as my wife?
Inventor: Ok, how about unlocking your car! No more lost keys!
Investor: Ok, now you want people cutting my arm off to steal my car?
Inventor: Oh, umm.. logging into your computer! No more lost passwords!
Investor: Ok, so now it's even EASIER to steal my credit card information?
Inventor: Ok look man, you'll make alot of money. Just don't talk about the downsides, and you'll be rich!
Investor: Woohoo, rich money money money rich rich! Let's do it!
-- fin --
We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
Putting aside your personal beliefs for a moment, it's important to understand that Christians regard the Bible as the inspired word of God. Written by 40 or so authors over many hundreds of years, but divinely directed by a single entity. I'm not saying you have to believe that, but I am saying that such understanding is required if you want to grasp the motivations of Christians. So yes, you can get over the fact, it just takes a little study, empathy, and common sense.
"Not being able to get over" the fact that people hold the beliefs mentioned is my way of saying that I consider those beliefs to be false. I have studied and I have plenty of empathy; it is exactly these things which have enabled me to understand the human condition well enough to reach my conclusions; That people are easily mis-led by authority figures and media. The Bible being part of the media, and its purveyors part of the authority structure.
I consider EVERYTHING to be inspired by God, because everything is part of God, so yeah, of course the bible was inspired by God, but big deal. --This is certainly at odds with the Christian belief system, but I think the Christian belief system is based on a lot of falsehoods artfully blended with some good ideas with the purpose of turning people into killing machines, (witness the scenario unfolding in the Middle East), and into easily fed upon fools (witness the populace allowing psychopaths into the offices of Enron and the presidency and similar). --People have been trained to "Turn the other cheek", "Forgive and forget", and generally follow Christ's lead in allowing himself to be crucified by villains, (which I think is another lie, BTW, designed to create pliable slaves.)
Yeah, but there's a lot of Biblical doctrine that doesn't seem to fit the mold, never mind the fact that its authors spanned many years and cultures. But sticking to the context, Revelations is one strange book that would be hard to put to such a purpose...
You're thinking three-dimensionally. Assuming supernatural powers, (which a Christian must do by force of his/her belief structure), manipulations from seemingly God-like forces must be accepted as possible. --Take the burning bush, for instance. Just because a bush talks to you and makes you feel certain feelings, why on earth would a person take for granted that it was the voice of God speaking and not a manipulator with an agenda? --We have the technology now to make people feel certain ways using electromagnetic fields which manipulate our nervous systems. If we can do it, then a god-like being or alien or whatever certainly has the possibility of doing it.
--Say a prophet in a cave gets a vision which he just has to write down. Why do people assume it came from on high? There are a LOT of other forces out there, dark and clever ones, which can make you feel blessed and lit up by God and all of that, and which have perspectives which transcend time as well as space. I know this from direct experience with that realm; It's filled with monsters which feed on pain and misery and fear. Think about that! What are beings which feed on fear going to do if they need a meal?
There are, of course, selfless and giving entities out there as well, (which are sustained by love), but the population of positive v.s. negative beings seems to be about 50-50. So when Christians never question their sources, (And I mean, NEVER; I've seen the most dubious episodes transpire which people automatically assume come from heavenly sources simply because they happen to occur inside a church, but which have selfish and negative impacts), how much of the Christian material do you think is going to be valid?
--Especially, when other-serving entities tend to keep quiet unless directly asked for aid. Typically, other-serving beings tend to allow lessons to unfold in the long-game, (over many lives), and this means allowing people to act and learn from those actions, even if they are painful. It's the
I can't believe no one (especially in this crowd) has mentioned this, but...
Dude, didn't you see Logan's Run?!?
"Identify."
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Not really. It doesn't seem to have worked in the U.S., what with Bush calling himself a born again.
Indeed, the Armageddon story, when you look at it's resulting affects on the U.S. populace, seems to be having a very curious fall-out.
Specifically, people working hard to bring about Armageddon. --What with the herding of the Jews into Israel and the various prophecies about the ownership of certain bits of land being pushed into being.
Seems to me that there was some very specific intent behind the bible.
Assuming god-like powers, (which the average Christian must accept due to his/her religion tenets), then why not assume beings, (UFO's, Crop Circles), which have the power to transcend time as well as space in order to affect manipulations on the population so as to better enable social molding?
That's how I'd do it.
Just because a burning bush is talking to you doesn't mean it's telling you the truth. A little more critical thinking on the part of the Christians would have prevented a lot of disturbing events in history.
The Church doesn't encourage thinking and questioning, however. Big surprise.
-FL
It must be much more useful to simply swallow those things, before test casing
Some guy grabs you, ties you up, cuts off your arm (or whatever body part contains the implant), and uses it to become you, at least until he's cleared out all your accounts, sold your car, house, belongings, etc. Gives identity theft a whole new meaning!
As human beings, we are individuals. Our alegience to a particular government, religion, or ideal can be fleeting. Given that, would you want to brand yourself with your current beliefs, status, or membership?
I hope an identity thief cuts your freakin' hands off just to steal your car. It's always over-zealous idiots like you that gotta start hyping these types of bullshit which erode a normal way of life. You may not stop reading this and go back your Tivo.
Erm... you're new here, aren't you?
Well okay, I was only kidding -- but eh, it's an AC anyway.
This sig rocks the casbah.
yeah, we see that from time to time this tech helps us find a little pussy or brings rover home. But do we have any idea about how the critters feel about it, does it interfer with the voices that they hear. The voices are telling me that it's bad, very bad - and I'm not $pringing for it on any of my critters let alone my childrens.
Yeah, I know that it could help keep them from getting snatched and turned into sex slaves but I don't think any of my critters would make that good of sex slaves anyway. I pity the fool that tries to snatch my nearly grown young bucks. I fear the government that tries to tag them like cattle. Neither one of them has the good sense to fear anything, so I have to fret enough for the lot of us. I hope that they can preserve our radio free freedom at least until I croak.
There are many, many natural alpha emitters. Radon is perfectly natural and requires no batteries. A few millimeters is usually sufficient to block alpha particles, but the entire thickness of an implant thin enough not to cause an obvious problem couldn't be much thicker than that in total (both sides of the casing plus the interior).
Beta would be more penetrating, but wouldn't be as damaging. A single electron won't do a whole lot (charge of -1, insignificant mass) but a helium ion (charge of +2, mass of 4) tends to be rather nastier provided it actually gets anywhere.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Radionuclides occur in just about every substance on Earth. There no elements that I know of that have no naturally-occuring radioactive isotopes. Many have a large number. They require no active power source to be radioactive, they just are. Power makes zero difference. An example would be the copper used to make the antenna of the RFID embedded chip. There are a lot of radioisotopes for copper - most of them are beta emitters, though, not alpha. You want to tell me you personally check the RFID tags you implant for isotope purity? No? Then you'll be including some of these in everything you implant, according to the usual rules for the frequency of each isotope on Earth. Sorry, you can't escape it by turning the radio off.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I don't see any advantage to RFID chip implants, but what about GPS implants for kids? ...then parents would never lose them. ...and then you could always see your kids on GoogleMaps. They already have the ability and they're using it for their latest toy, the Ride Finder, that already shows sets of GPS devices in realtime.
http://labs.google.com/ridefinder
The octal number 666 is used in setting up authorizations in the Unix Operating System. It offers read and write access to all users, and is only limited by the permissions of directories above or different permission schemes, e.g. ACLs. This matches the Revelation ('13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the Mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. ') in that this could be a way to allow or disallow people to buy anything (the Mark of the Beast as a personal body mark easily readable by automated cashiers in a cashless society).
345,676 microseconds into the future...
You step out of the local RFID'sRUS,
bandage under your left armpit, with your new Implant-A-Scan Patent Pending; fully loaded with all the pertinant information.
You stand at the taxi stand and when, for the first time, you get into the next available cab and say "Home"; the driver presses a button on the dash and the scanner registers your address, calculates the fare and deducts the amount from you E-Account.
As you near your residence, you say, "Stop here, I think I will walk the rest of the way home". As the cab sidles to the curb, the scanner recalculates the fare difference and redeposits the balance to your account.
Nearing the crosswalk, the PedestOScan® recognizes your implant and automatically changes the traffic signal to RED and gives you the WALK signal, since there is no traffic being scanned.
PSSSST...
PSSSST, Bill.
You stop, look around, see nothing, continue walking.
"Bill Smith, I'm talking to you, over here, in the alleyway".
You turn, walk to the alley and in the darkness you see a figure in the shadows. "How do you know my name?", you ask leerily. "Easy, with this Portascan®".
"But aren't those only for Police only?".
"Sure they are, but that's not why I called you".
As the stranger looks down at the reader, he says, "According the scanner, you've been arrested once for drug possession".
"Hey, wait a minute, that was over ten years ago". you protest loudly.
"Don't get all bent out of shape, I just want to know if you want to but some coke?"
"No, I don't do drugs anymore, I have a good job and I don't want to screw it up".
"Hey, I was just askin'".
Shaking your head, you continue on your way home. As you near your residence, you hear the automatic door lock release letting you in without fumbling for your keys.
"Good Evening, Bill", chimes the HouseMaster® computer."The time is now four-thirtyfour, you have six new messages, the last from the bank with an URGENT flag attached".
"Play last message", you state quizzically.
"This is Michael Thompson, your service representative at Central Office of Chase Bank".
"Mike, what's up?".
"Bill, we just had a flag raise on your account concerning a withdrawl made at four-fifteen, normally we don't register E-Withdrawls®, but since this one is just under your threshold limit, we thought we should inquire".
"I didn't make any withdrawls at that time, Mike, but I did have an encounter with a stranger with what I believe to be an illegally possessed Portascan®"
"Don't worry sir, the withdrawl has been registered, you account is insured and the Police will arrive in twentyfive minutes to take your statement, sorry for the inconcenience, Mr. Smith".
Thanks. I get that a lot. I guess that I'm just well-liked.
I'm going to get an RFID inserted in my ass so everytime I sit on the toilet the toiletpaper would spit out the correct number of sheets I need to wipe my ***. Then it would be useful!!!
...and I feel fine. I'm not gonna do any of that implanted RFID crap. It's bad enough that they (the U.S. government) can probably track me through my military ID card (Army National Guard), although we may be a bit away from the scenario described in the Revelations end of times prophecies. At some point, folks won't be able to buy/sell/trade unless they have a certain card, then later on it will be a mark...either in the hand or forehead.
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -- Dr. Buckaroo Bonzai, PhD
When I go to web sites I don't want to be tracked I use an onion router, specifically TOR. Maybe you want your business spilled out for the world to see all the time, others not so much...
http://tor.eff.org/
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?