I'm willing to bet that either he didn't have the authority to comandeer those buses (are they privately owned?), or that it was not feasible to satisfy the logistics required to get those busses running.
That's all part of the city evacuation plan. Or should be, if he actually had one, and followed it. Authority to use those buses should have been worked out years ago. That should be a full section in the contract.
And if not...you call the company owner, and lay out the situation. "Mr. BusCompany president, this is the mayor..can we use your buses to move people?" "Yes."
Done deal. Leaving those buses to be flooded is criminal, at the very least.
Emergency planning begins at the local level. State and federal assistance is needed only to coordinate between other jurisdictions.
Yeah. A lot of them didn't have cars. That STILL doesn't excuse not being prepared while at the Superdome.
Which 'government' are you blamimg, Feds, state, or local? The mayor, being intimatley involved with his own population, should have helped these people more. He didn't.
And WHO waited until the last minute to order a mandatory evacuation for the city? And provide a 'shelter of last resort'. (Superdome and COnvention Center) Said shelters with NO thought of management or supplies. The idiot mayor.
Guess what. I live in SE virginia. Just a couple of miles from the coast. We have hurricanes quite often.
I have water, ready and waiting. Several old soda bottles, just stuck in the bottom of the freezer. Not doing anything special...just there. Doesn't cost anything, except not throwing out a plastic bottle. When a hurricane is imminent, i also fill up the bathtub. And get some other assorted stuff ready.
If an order came to evacuate, I would. Even if I had no car, and had to walk/bus to whatever emergency shelter, we would each carry enough supplies to manage for a couple of days.
If you live in a hurricane prone area, you learn to prepare. If you don't, and expect the government to provide in the midst of the devastation...you're an idiot.
Being prepared with your own supplies doesn't cost anything. Except for the already frozen water, we don't have a full hurricane kit packed and ready, like some people do. But everything we need, we could find, pack, and be ready to move in 30-45 minutes. Food, water, medical, some paperwork, 2 pair of shoes each, baby crap for the grandkids, harddrives and at least one of the laptops, No place to evacuate to? Bullshit. Drive west a couple hundred miles...sleep in the car for a day or two. You don't need a 'place' to go to. Camp in someones yard. Camp in a church yard. Camp anywhere. It would be nice to be warm and dry in a shelter. But not really essential.
"We need buses!" Yes, Mr. Mayor. We need those 200 bright yellow school buses that you let sit, and are now under water. 200 buses, 50 people per...that's 10,000 people you could have evacuated in one trip.
Sorry, IMHO, any blame here goes from the bottom up.
because there is no way to control a mob the size of a city...
Yeah there is. Personal responsibility.
Do ANY of you reading this think that you personally would descend into rape, murder, shooting at rescurers, hijacking ambulances, and all the other assorted nastiness that's been going on? No.
Granted...we are not in that situation, and it's easy to pontificate from an airconditioned living room. But I cannot imagine any possible set of circumstances that would lead you or I down the path to rape someone. Break into a grocery store for food/medicine/clothes? Sure. But all that other crap? Come on.
It's awful hard to rescue someone, if some other asshat is shooting at you.
(Lest you think i'm bashing you...I agree with what you said.)
Fema is aware that there are supplies there, so I assume the Fema manager for Louisiana is aware of it also as it is his/her job to know such things and it is his/her duty to make sure the governor's office is aware that there are first responder gear available for them. Of course this assumes the managers in place are competent and not political cronnies...
FTA: "A federal official said the department's Office for Domestic Preparedness reminded the Louisiana and Mississippi governors' offices about the stockpiles on Wednesday and Thursday, but neither governor had requested it."
Ask the mayor of NO why most of the fleet of city school buses is now under water. Why didn't HE, the onscene commander, use those to evacuate people?
I saw one guy on TV the other day screaming "My car's under water! How the hell am I supposed to get out!?" - If you HAVE(had) a car, why didn't you leave before?
So prior to each and every hurricane, we should crank up a carrier battle group? And put it where? IN the Gulf? Yeah...thats exactly the place you DON'T want your fleet. Right in the path of the storm.
Where and when would you have put a CVN group for this hurricane? Here is the track and strength prediction since last Tuesday, when it was north of Cuba, and still avery minor hurricane. Saturday night, it was still a Cat 2/3.
Where, specifically, would you have put a carrier group. And when? Which carrier group, coming from where, and loaded with supplies when?
Everyone likes getting something for nothing. There's nothing wrong with that.
So people should make their life's work available to you for free? Have you gone to your boss with this revelation? I'm sure he'd love to have you come in everyday and do whatever it is you do, and not have to pay you.
I understand that Microsoft wants to keep the files that Office creates in a closed format. But, in order to prevent this sort of thing from happening, why not offer an open format as an option in the "Save As" dialog box?
Apparently, you haven't looked at the 'Save' function in Word, lately. Or ever.
doc - Word default. binary htm - human readable, well documented. In Word2003, the "Save as Web Page" is right under the Save As menu selection. Of course, Words html implementation is less than stellar, but it IS readable.
doc - previous versions of Word rtf - human readable, well documented txt - plain ascii text xml - bastardised xml, but human readable
The music industry may not have lost, because you "wouldn't have bought it anyway". But how much have you gained, for nothing, from getting that free (or thousands of free) songs?
If you think the RIAA is underhanded (and they are!), then don't support their products. Period. Free or otherwise.
"I think Nike is really underhanded and dirty with their sweatshops, but look! Someone gave me a free pair of Air Stallmans! Don't they look nice on me?"
Just stop, and admit you like getting music for free.
The parent comment I was replying to is asking (and answering) the wrong questions.
Is the military, incl the Army National Guard, getting smaller? Yes it is. Is it getting smaller, because of planned reductions, or is it getting smaller because they can't retain/recruit people. It is the former. Is the rate of end strength reduction faster or slower? If you had paid attention to the massive drawdowns in the mid-late 90's, you'd know this answer. No, it's not faster.
For instance, for the Air Guard, FY 2004: " He [Chief Master Sgt. Richard Smith, the Air National Guard's command chief master sergeant] said retention was a key in fiscal year 2004 with more than 91.3 percent of ANG members reenlisting when their commitment was up. That exceeded the retention goal of 88 percent.
"We met our end strength by overachieving our retention goal," he said. "But that means we didn't meet our recruiting goal"
Over 90% reenlistment is good in anyones book. Why is recruitment down? Primarily, because active duty members getting out are not then joining the Guard in the same numbers as they did before. And this is the same in the Army Guard.
Overall, the USAF is stlll getting smaller. Planned end strength reductions. They are letting people out early, in some career fields.
The parent is making the incorrect assusmption that the military can't recruit and retain people, and is 'shrinking faster' than before because of that. That is simply false. Is it harder? Maybe.
Ok, so I had the exact details wrong, but here it is.
"A call for help that involved a combination of cell telephone calls and Amateur Radio was instrumental in saving 15 people stranded by floodwaters on the roof of a house in New Orleans. Unable to get through an overloaded 911 system, one of those stranded called a relative in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. That individual, in turn, called another relative, Sybil Hayes in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, whose 81-year-old aunt Helen Elzy was among those clinging to the roof along with other family members.
Hayes called the American Red Cross chapter, which contacted the Tulsa Repeater Organization. Using the Red Cross chapter's well-equipped amateur station, TRO member Ben Joplin, WB5VST, was able to relay a request for help on the 20-meter SATERN net via stations in Oregon and Utah to Louisiana, where the ARES net contacted emergency personnel who rescued the 15 people.
"When all else fails, Amateur Radio works is more than a catchy tag line," says TRO's Mark Conklin, N7XYO. "It's a lifeline." He said as of late Monday evening, Elzy and the others on the roof were safe at a Red Cross shelter. "
The first thing to remember is that while 65% of the current Louisiana National Guard are in country, the total number of troops in the National Guard have been shrinking over the last few years due to a few years of recruitment shortages
The total number of troops (Guard and otherwise) has been shrinking since the early 90's, and the end of the cold war. Not just the last few years.
The troops (Guard and otherwise) in Iraq are not generally the type of troops needed to help here. Logistics, construction, food & water supply, medical, maybe some security. But not infantry/armor.
You don't just plug anyone in a green suit into any job that needs doing.
True. But this was a firsthand report, live on the telephone, from the initial ham operator in Tulsa. I'm sure NPR has the transcript. It was today, Aug 30, around 5:30 PM EDT, if you care to look it up.
Slashdot Mirror
That's all part of the city evacuation plan. Or should be, if he actually had one, and followed it. Authority to use those buses should have been worked out years ago. That should be a full section in the contract.
And if not...you call the company owner, and lay out the situation.
"Mr. BusCompany president, this is the mayor..can we use your buses to move people?"
"Yes."
Done deal. Leaving those buses to be flooded is criminal, at the very least.
Emergency planning begins at the local level. State and federal assistance is needed only to coordinate between other jurisdictions.
Which 'government' are you blamimg, Feds, state, or local? The mayor, being intimatley involved with his own population, should have helped these people more. He didn't.
Personal responsibility, as in "hmmm...maybe I shouldn't do this." Not dictated to you from a megaphone.
And WHO waited until the last minute to order a mandatory evacuation for the city? And provide a 'shelter of last resort'. (Superdome and COnvention Center) Said shelters with NO thought of management or supplies. The idiot mayor.
Guess what. I live in SE virginia. Just a couple of miles from the coast. We have hurricanes quite often.
I have water, ready and waiting. Several old soda bottles, just stuck in the bottom of the freezer. Not doing anything special...just there. Doesn't cost anything, except not throwing out a plastic bottle. When a hurricane is imminent, i also fill up the bathtub. And get some other assorted stuff ready.
If an order came to evacuate, I would. Even if I had no car, and had to walk/bus to whatever emergency shelter, we would each carry enough supplies to manage for a couple of days.
If you live in a hurricane prone area, you learn to prepare. If you don't, and expect the government to provide in the midst of the devastation...you're an idiot.
Being prepared with your own supplies doesn't cost anything. Except for the already frozen water, we don't have a full hurricane kit packed and ready, like some people do. But everything we need, we could find, pack, and be ready to move in 30-45 minutes. Food, water, medical, some paperwork, 2 pair of shoes each, baby crap for the grandkids, harddrives and at least one of the laptops,
No place to evacuate to? Bullshit. Drive west a couple hundred miles...sleep in the car for a day or two. You don't need a 'place' to go to. Camp in someones yard. Camp in a church yard. Camp anywhere. It would be nice to be warm and dry in a shelter. But not really essential.
But have yourself prepared!
Sorry, IMHO, any blame here goes from the bottom up.
Yeah there is. Personal responsibility.
Do ANY of you reading this think that you personally would descend into rape, murder, shooting at rescurers, hijacking ambulances, and all the other assorted nastiness that's been going on?
No.
Granted...we are not in that situation, and it's easy to pontificate from an airconditioned living room. But I cannot imagine any possible set of circumstances that would lead you or I down the path to rape someone. Break into a grocery store for food/medicine/clothes? Sure. But all that other crap? Come on.
It's awful hard to rescue someone, if some other asshat is shooting at you.
(Lest you think i'm bashing you...I agree with what you said.)
"Officials said a 3-foot (0.9-metre) shark had been spotted cruising the flooded streets"
FTA:
"A federal official said the department's Office for Domestic Preparedness reminded the Louisiana and Mississippi governors' offices about the stockpiles on Wednesday and Thursday, but neither governor had requested it."
Again...WTF are the governors doing?
I saw one guy on TV the other day screaming "My car's under water! How the hell am I supposed to get out!?"
- If you HAVE(had) a car, why didn't you leave before?
What, that $10.5 billion (just for starters) isn't 'money'? Just because they're not giving it to YOU, doesn't mean its not happening.
Patently incorrect.
Want to put some money on that?
Where and when would you have put a CVN group for this hurricane? Here is the track and strength prediction since last Tuesday, when it was north of Cuba, and still avery minor hurricane. Saturday night, it was still a Cat 2/3.
Where, specifically, would you have put a carrier group. And when? Which carrier group, coming from where, and loaded with supplies when?
So people should make their life's work available to you for free? Have you gone to your boss with this revelation? I'm sure he'd love to have you come in everyday and do whatever it is you do, and not have to pay you.
Everybody likes it. Doesn't mean it's right.
Apparently, you haven't looked at the 'Save' function in Word, lately. Or ever.
doc - Word default. binary
htm - human readable, well documented. In Word2003, the "Save as Web Page" is right under the Save As menu selection. Of course, Words html implementation is less than stellar, but it IS readable.
doc - previous versions of Word
rtf - human readable, well documented
txt - plain ascii text
xml - bastardised xml, but human readable
If you think the RIAA is underhanded (and they are!), then don't support their products. Period. Free or otherwise.
"I think Nike is really underhanded and dirty with their sweatshops, but look! Someone gave me a free pair of Air Stallmans! Don't they look nice on me?"
Just stop, and admit you like getting music for free.
Is the military, incl the Army National Guard, getting smaller? Yes it is.
Is it getting smaller, because of planned reductions, or is it getting smaller because they can't retain/recruit people. It is the former.
Is the rate of end strength reduction faster or slower? If you had paid attention to the massive drawdowns in the mid-late 90's, you'd know this answer. No, it's not faster.
For instance, for the Air Guard, FY 2004:
" He [Chief Master Sgt. Richard Smith, the Air National Guard's command chief master sergeant] said retention was a key in fiscal year 2004 with more than 91.3 percent of ANG members reenlisting when their commitment was up. That exceeded the retention goal of 88 percent.
"We met our end strength by overachieving our retention goal," he said. "But that means we didn't meet our recruiting goal"
Over 90% reenlistment is good in anyones book. Why is recruitment down? Primarily, because active duty members getting out are not then joining the Guard in the same numbers as they did before. And this is the same in the Army Guard.
Overall, the USAF is stlll getting smaller. Planned end strength reductions. They are letting people out early, in some career fields.
The parent is making the incorrect assusmption that the military can't recruit and retain people, and is 'shrinking faster' than before because of that. That is simply false. Is it harder? Maybe.
And Honda is big enough to realize that they lose sometimes. Suck it up, figure out why, and move on.
Sometimes you win, but sometimes you lose. As I see it, everybody's game has improved.
"A call for help that involved a combination of cell telephone calls and Amateur Radio was instrumental in saving 15 people stranded by floodwaters on the roof of a house in New Orleans. Unable to get through an overloaded 911 system, one of those stranded called a relative in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. That individual, in turn, called another relative, Sybil Hayes in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, whose 81-year-old aunt Helen Elzy was among those clinging to the roof along with other family members.
Hayes called the American Red Cross chapter, which contacted the Tulsa Repeater Organization. Using the Red Cross chapter's well-equipped amateur station, TRO member Ben Joplin, WB5VST, was able to relay a request for help on the 20-meter SATERN net via stations in Oregon and Utah to Louisiana, where the ARES net contacted emergency personnel who rescued the 15 people.
"When all else fails, Amateur Radio works is more than a catchy tag line," says TRO's Mark Conklin, N7XYO. "It's a lifeline." He said as of late Monday evening, Elzy and the others on the roof were safe at a Red Cross shelter. "
No.
The total number of troops (Guard and otherwise) has been shrinking since the early 90's, and the end of the cold war. Not just the last few years.
You don't just plug anyone in a green suit into any job that needs doing.
True. But this was a firsthand report, live on the telephone, from the initial ham operator in Tulsa. I'm sure NPR has the transcript. It was today, Aug 30, around 5:30 PM EDT, if you care to look it up.