In New York the frost line is likely about 5 feet down. The type of piping required to maintain a system you imply wouldn't survive buried service. Bzzt, thanks for playing.
"It should also be noted that increasingly large science projects are using permanently or semi permanently cooled superconductors, which implies it really is already a solved problem, perhaps not cheap, but if the efficiency rise is enough to offset cooling costs, then that wouldn't matter."
You just said science projects where it is possible for a million dollar cryo trailer to top up the storage vessel when it gets low.
I admire the optimism of some people. Unfortunately, reality usually gets in the way and there's a sucker born every minute.
So it costs some significant amount of power to cool them down to their working temperature, but once there, the super conductors keep their temperature almost for free, you only have to make up for what is lost because of the insulation.
So if I turned off my freezer all I'd have to do to keep the low temperature would be to "top up" the cooling agent to maintain heat lost through the insulation? Isn't that what refrigerators do already?
Do you have any clue how cold it has to be for superconducting? "Making cool" is extremely power-intensive when you want to go down to those temperatures.
If I was still in the business I could give you the exact model numbers for those storage units. Many of them were made by MVE. I still don't see what you're ranting about.
LN2 can be used as an inerting gas, or, yes, possibly to freeze stuff temporarily (it's been used to perform pipeline isolation, if you care to look it up - Google Stopple). To claim that these large dewars are there to maintain some kind of positive cryo pressure/flow for secret underground services is a stretch. But if you've already decided, I'll never be able to change your mind.
In order to keep liquid nitrogen from just boiling off (relatively) extreme insulation is required. Liquid hydrogen is much worse in this regard.
In cold boxes (which feature pretty complex, closely-packed piping) we'd use at least 12" of perlite insulation from exterior heat sources. For critical individual lines you're talking about vacuum jacketing with at least a 1" vacuum annular space and special shielding, which is what those "high-tech", stainless steel containers are (sort of). These containers and the similar piping are incredibly expensive to fabricate and install.
The notion that "supercooling" with liquefied gases anywhere outside of labs and special installations is just absurd.
But wait! Cryogenics were used to create the A-bomb, so there MUST be a conspiracy there!
As an ex-cold box designer (cold boxes create liquid air, liquid nitrogen and liquid oxygen - I could explain, but what's the point) I welcome this development, more work for me!
Unfortunately your theory is silly. Liquid nitrogen is quite expensive and effectively insulating a system such as you imagine is, well, impractical and not affordable.
You might be surprised how little different it would be to have power lines running superconducting in parts of NYC. With the vastly complex infrastructure already in place, doing these lines might not be all that big a deal in some ways.
Oh really? From which nether region did you pull that one from? Is this the same city that has underground steam pipe explosions from time to time?
Depends on what you mean by "fine furniture", I guess. I'm referring to the higher-end stuff that I'll never be able to afford and wouldn't buy even if I could.
Well, at least this partially explains why my (formerly always recoverable) Windows machine won't boot any more since I got my Mac. Could also be the dents in the motherboard from the baseball bat I suppose.
Ultimately, the point of translating real life problems into mathematical equations is to get a solution. If someone can't at least get a ballpark solution on his own, I submit he's functionally innumerate.
Exactly. Well, close enough.
Sorry for the unintentional funny, I agree with you.
Slashdot Mirror
In New York the frost line is likely about 5 feet down. The type of piping required to maintain a system you imply wouldn't survive buried service. Bzzt, thanks for playing.
"It should also be noted that increasingly large science projects are using permanently or semi permanently cooled superconductors, which implies it really is already a solved problem, perhaps not cheap, but if the efficiency rise is enough to offset cooling costs, then that wouldn't matter."
You just said science projects where it is possible for a million dollar cryo trailer to top up the storage vessel when it gets low.
I admire the optimism of some people. Unfortunately, reality usually gets in the way and there's a sucker born every minute.
Tee-hee!
So it costs some significant amount of power to cool them down to their working temperature, but once there, the super conductors keep their temperature almost for free, you only have to make up for what is lost because of the insulation.
So if I turned off my freezer all I'd have to do to keep the low temperature would be to "top up" the cooling agent to maintain heat lost through the insulation? Isn't that what refrigerators do already?
Do you have any clue how cold it has to be for superconducting? "Making cool" is extremely power-intensive when you want to go down to those temperatures.
If I was still in the business I could give you the exact model numbers for those storage units. Many of them were made by MVE. I still don't see what you're ranting about.
LN2 can be used as an inerting gas, or, yes, possibly to freeze stuff temporarily (it's been used to perform pipeline isolation, if you care to look it up - Google Stopple). To claim that these large dewars are there to maintain some kind of positive cryo pressure/flow for secret underground services is a stretch. But if you've already decided, I'll never be able to change your mind.
I guess I struck a nerve. My apologies for making you so upset with my real-world experience in the business of gas liquefaction and transport.
If I may be so bold to ask, what's your background regarding cryogenics and industrial gases?
That's part of what these lines are supposed to replace. If you had read the article you might know that.
OK, so now you're an expert on pipeline rehabilitation.
In order to keep liquid nitrogen from just boiling off (relatively) extreme insulation is required. Liquid hydrogen is much worse in this regard.
In cold boxes (which feature pretty complex, closely-packed piping) we'd use at least 12" of perlite insulation from exterior heat sources. For critical individual lines you're talking about vacuum jacketing with at least a 1" vacuum annular space and special shielding, which is what those "high-tech", stainless steel containers are (sort of). These containers and the similar piping are incredibly expensive to fabricate and install.
The notion that "supercooling" with liquefied gases anywhere outside of labs and special installations is just absurd.
But wait! Cryogenics were used to create the A-bomb, so there MUST be a conspiracy there!
As an ex-cold box designer (cold boxes create liquid air, liquid nitrogen and liquid oxygen - I could explain, but what's the point) I welcome this development, more work for me!
Unfortunately your theory is silly. Liquid nitrogen is quite expensive and effectively insulating a system such as you imagine is, well, impractical and not affordable.
You might be surprised how little different it would be to have power lines running superconducting in parts of NYC. With the vastly complex infrastructure already in place, doing these lines might not be all that big a deal in some ways.
Oh really? From which nether region did you pull that one from? Is this the same city that has underground steam pipe explosions from time to time?
Are you 14 and armed with Wikipedia?
Please add the one where he tries to exit stage right but the door is locked.
America's funniest president ever.
Thanks Fulg, I almost bought one.
Alcohol flames burn so clean that they look innocuous.
Burning hydrogen is fun, too.
Thing is, he was to sloshed to remember doing this so it always sounds like a good idea (at the time).
using wind and other free power
turn water into H2
will take a few trillion
Prove to them it can't be done
I am on a ton of forums, and this looked like a great place to chat about it.
Where do I sign up?
I'd take a screenshot of the error message, but I obviously can't.
Use a digital camera. That's what I do when Windows BSODs on me every week.
Depends on what you mean by "fine furniture", I guess. I'm referring to the higher-end stuff that I'll never be able to afford and wouldn't buy even if I could.
Psst: the REAL intercept is not in Sweden. Don't tell anybody, K?
still-President Bush
You type that as if you think his continued presence is annoying (which it may in fact be to you). Just wait a few months and you'll be able to
(A) rejoice
(B) start whining again
Agreed mostly on evolution, not so much on "climate change".
Where have all the Darl-related stories gone?
Well, at least this partially explains why my (formerly always recoverable) Windows machine won't boot any more since I got my Mac. Could also be the dents in the motherboard from the baseball bat I suppose.
Why post? Because everyone deserves their 15 minutes of flame.
Has anyone modified this sig yet by suggesting the removal of the "f"?
I used to curl also (Lachine Curling Club) until those damn East European women started showing up.
But if you want fine furniture built...
That's called a cabinet maker or ebinistre, not carpenter.
Did spreadsheets make accountants less skillful?
The punchline to the joke I'm thinking about is, "What do you want it to be?".
Ultimately, the point of translating real life problems into mathematical equations is to get a solution. If someone can't at least get a ballpark solution on his own, I submit he's functionally innumerate.
Exactly. Well, close enough.
Sorry for the unintentional funny, I agree with you.
To give it a modern, cool feel, it should be called "Plan 9 From Outer Space".