Yes, Java! Because:
- Java is cross platform compatible..NET may never be cross platform compatible %100 including Mono project etc., since MS is holding patents of very important parts of.NET, such as WinForms, ADO.NET. They did not submitted all the parts of.NET to ECMA. They kept the most important parts.
- Java was there 7 years ago!:) Think about it. Now it is matured, reliable. There are millions of Java programmers (still there will be %50 more need for in 2003 according to Gartner research), thousands of open/close, ready to use, matured programs, frameworks, libraries written in Java..NET is a newbee, need at least 3 years to become reliable. During this time, Java will be much better.
- Java is working already. Its doing everything I need. Why should I change to.NET?:) There are many programs written in Java, basically working on many different platforms already.
- Performances of.NET and Java are not very different. Both are VM based..NET might be faster than Java on Windows, especially in client applications, but, it is not very important, since CPUs are fast enough, and Java is getting better optimized with every release. In short, Java is fast enough.
- All the big companies other than MS, such as Sun, Oracle, Sybase, IBM, BEA, HP, Fujitsu, Nokia, Sony/Ericcson, JBoss, etc. already rolled their dice and chosen Java. They have many products based on Java. Why should they burn their investments and move to MS's.NET? Of course they won't.
- Java is not from the most unethical company in the history of mankind. Some people believe in ethics and don't use it. Such as me.
1] Java VM can also run different languages, indeed there are much more languages built on top of JVM currently than.NET:
http://grunge.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tolk/vmlanguages.ht ml
2].NET will never be universal..NET implementations on different platforms will never be 100 percent compatible. Even Mono on Linux. They will be just close to MS implementation. One of the reasons is that.NET contains Passport related classes etc. Other reason is that not all of the.NET platform is submitted to ECMA. MS is holding paterns to some very important parts of.NET, such as WinForms, ADO.NET etc. The only universal VM, which is around for 7 years is Java Virtual Machine, and it is still intact thanks to Sun.
3] The performance of CLI and JVM are not radically different, except for the client side.NET programs on Windows, since MS knows the OS code only. Sun don't. But it does not matter much, since the computers are fast enough and Java is getting more and more optimised with every release.:)
Cheers.
Then why I am seeing everyone is converting to Java in the last 2 years? No one is using.NET or planning to use it around. My firm tested it, tried to call some legacy activex controls and unmanaged C++ code, they of course rejected it after a biiiiiiig performance hit. I know lots of developers who shifted to Java from MS platforms though.:) .NET is new. Not tested, not trustable. Java existed 7 years ago. Why should I risk it? Why should I develop in.NET, just another VM based technology, but this time lock myself to Windows? I know that there will be other implementations of.NET, such as Mono on Linux, but those will not be cross platform compatible at all. Even they say it. One reason is that.NET's most important parts are not given to ECMA, such as WinForms and ADO.NET. Do not forget that. MS is still holding the patterns. etc. etc. .NET my BUTT. I will never use it.
Java rocks! I like it. You may not, its your choice.
Apache is not only SOAP implementor with Java.
on
.NET for Apache
·
· Score: 0
Did you ever heard WASP? It is a fantastic Java based web services implementation. www.systinet.com They are also preparing WASP.NET
Or check out Glue for Java. It is also very nice.
Better go to www.javaskyline.org and checkout existing ways to deal with web services on Java. You might be surprised to see 50 bullets.
Come to your senses.
Also, all the major players in Application Server market, IBM, HP, Fujitsu, JBoss, Sun, BEA, etc., ALL OF THEM SUPPORT J2EE..NET is supported only by Microsoft..NET on Linux may become reliable maybe in 3 years. If you check out Gnome 2, you can easily see that it is a failure. The guys are not capable to create a robust system anyways. Even if they are, creating application server is not easy thing. Even JBoss is there for more than 3 years, and this year, they reached production quality.
All the giants in the market have Java based application servers. IBM WebSphere is in its 8th version or something like that, and you say, everyone, will leave this robust, already sold to thousands of customers products and start.NET on Linux, which is new, and untested.
How many times that we should say that.NET's important parts are not given to the standards? Even if they were, what standards would do? Absolutely nothing. Standards my ass. If MS change.NET out of the standards, what will they loose?
Now, monopolist wannabe Icaza changed his mind, started to say, we will not support WinForms at all. Pheewwww. Big deal. I never believed that they can anyway. Even if they did, M$ wouldn't let them.
Please utter some intelligent sentences or don't write at all and spend my precious time.
>>C# (not even counting all of.NET) is better than Java (the language). But Java is working anyway.:) And it has been working for 7 years. It is tested, optimized, getting better and better. All the big firms except for MS is embracing Java anyway. There are hundreds of ready to use libraries, frameworks, successful open source projects, millions of Java developers. The runtimes are getting better and better. It supports real WORA promiss. It will be #1 known language next year. Who cares about C# when there is Java?
Microsoft has a large deployment base. Lots of people will learn and use C#, because that can mean a job. And good thing is C# is very close to Java. (Actually it is copy of it with different syntax, and not so important fixes/improvements etc.) So, it will be easy for people to move to Java.
>>Microsoft has submitted C# and some of.NET to a standards body. Which is nothing. Standards my ass. First they did not standardized every aspect of.NET. Many important parts are not standardized. They can change those parts and all those work would explode in Icaza's ass. You would have propriatery.NET implementation for Linux, which would not work better than Java. It is another VM anyway.
>>Microsoft is going to do the work to port to BSD. Of course they would, since they are planning to release BSD based OS in the future as far as I know. They will start polluting BSD with Windows propriatery.NET libraries from the start.
Microsoft Labs members have and continue to make efforts supporting the use of other non-traditional languages on.NET. Which is again useless, language bindings do not work fast. They will never ever work fast enough. It is not efficient to call unmanaged code from.NET. My firm tried it, and abandoned it at once, after seeing the huge performance hit. Do not get me wrong. JNI also do not work fast too. No legacy code linking in the world produces results that would make project managers feel confortable. So, forget about calling already implemented code from.NET. It is more related with problem domain. Only some problem domains may permit it.
Microsoft isn't afraid to design a platform for performance, unlike Sun. Are you nuts? Did you ever see.NET and JVM comparisons? They are not much different. Even Java is faster in many cases.
C# and.NET will be used on WinCE handhelds. So what? What I am supposed to do with crap Win CE? On mobiles and handhelds, Java is already becoming a de facto standard. Read some before posting.
Common Java runtimes still run like ass, and the language is a piece of crap. Do you know something called rimmming?
There are many people who do refuse to shift to C# as a programming language. Only Windows people are being forced to. 90 percent of Java developers will not. Even the language is here, the tools will be there maybe next year (for Linux), I won't touch a single line of Mono code. Because, there is no need to while there is Java. I know hundreds of Java programmers in Prague, none is interested in C#, and Mono. Why should I be interested? I am happy with Java. I write a Java program, it works on Linux, Unix, Mac, Windows, Free BSD, etc, etc. Mono will help to M$ more than it will help to Linux. Now M$ will be able to say, "do you see?.NET is cross-platform". If you ask my real idea, I believe, Mono project is nothing more than product of Ximian's and especially YOUR desire to be famous, etc, since they were always clouded by KDE. So, take your MONOpolist project and stick it in your ARSE. I will never use it.:) Cheers Miguel.
Every.NET implementation helps M$ more than it helps that platform. MONO is helping MONOpolist more than it is helping to M$. I will never use it. Icaza can keep licking Billy's balls. I definately won't.
Standards is nothing. Totally useless. AND, MS did not give important parts of the.NET to the ECMA. ALSO, Ximian is FINANCING MONO. Thus, there is no Ximian in my future life. Its all.
GNOME 4 will be written with MONO's C#.
Read his interviews at the register etc.
I do not like.NET. Even it will help Linux for couple of things, I believe it will help more M$. Look how Miguel is talking about Microsoft etc on Mono site. He is being extremely careful to not to put a grain of dust on M$. This is not something I like. I will use my right to protest and will NEVER use any MONO supported software, or GNOME. If it becomes a big hit on Linux, ok, it is time to move to Free BSD.
Its all.:)
Either this way or that way, every.NET implementation will help M$. M$ supporters are talking about "You see, there are Linux implementations of.NET" in the discussion forums.
Ximian is supporting Mono!, financing Mono (good name for MONOpolist technology implementation).
KDE is not responsible for.NET implementation.
Miguel de Icaza was saying that next versions of Gnome (Gnome 4?) should be.NET. Don't you read The Register etc?
I and lots of friends UNINSTALLED GNOME and INSTALLED KDE after learning that Miguel de Icaza likes to lick Billy's private parts.
I WON'T SUPPORT ANY MONOPOLIST LICKERS, INCLUDING GNOME, AND ICAZA!
Gnome 2 is a calamity anyway. I like KDE.:)
Mono,.NET implementation on LINUX is being developed by Ximian, Gnome's creators. Wanna see how Miguel de Icaza is licking MSs private parts? go and read www.go-mono.org Especially read Passport related parts to feel disgusted what lust for power and money can turn people into.
GNOME HELPS MS IN THE NAME OF SAVING ITS OWN FUTURE! (Yes, every single line of code written for.NET is helping MS.)
Lots of my friends uninstalled GNOME the first day they heard them helping MS! KDE is much better anyway. Especially after the Gnome 2 calamity.:)
Doesn't matter for me. I already uninstalled Gnome and now using happily KDE the day icaza revealed.NET on Linux is financed by Ximian. I don't like projects like MONO, implementation of MONOpolist technology.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, Java! Because: - Java is cross platform compatible. .NET may never be cross platform compatible %100 including Mono project etc., since MS is holding patents of very important parts of .NET, such as WinForms, ADO.NET. They did not submitted all the parts of .NET to ECMA. They kept the most important parts.
:) Think about it. Now it is matured, reliable. There are millions of Java programmers (still there will be %50 more need for in 2003 according to Gartner research), thousands of open/close, ready to use, matured programs, frameworks, libraries written in Java. .NET is a newbee, need at least 3 years to become reliable. During this time, Java will be much better.
.NET? :) There are many programs written in Java, basically working on many different platforms already.
.NET and Java are not very different. Both are VM based. .NET might be faster than Java on Windows, especially in client applications, but, it is not very important, since CPUs are fast enough, and Java is getting better optimized with every release. In short, Java is fast enough.
.NET? Of course they won't.
- Java was there 7 years ago!
- Java is working already. Its doing everything I need. Why should I change to
- Performances of
- All the big companies other than MS, such as Sun, Oracle, Sybase, IBM, BEA, HP, Fujitsu, Nokia, Sony/Ericcson, JBoss, etc. already rolled their dice and chosen Java. They have many products based on Java. Why should they burn their investments and move to MS's
- Java is not from the most unethical company in the history of mankind. Some people believe in ethics and don't use it. Such as me.
1] Java VM can also run different languages, indeed there are much more languages built on top of JVM currently than .NET:
http://grunge.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tolk/vmlanguages.ht ml
2] .NET will never be universal. .NET implementations on different platforms will never be 100 percent compatible. Even Mono on Linux. They will be just close to MS implementation. One of the reasons is that .NET contains Passport related classes etc. Other reason is that not all of the .NET platform is submitted to ECMA. MS is holding paterns to some very important parts of .NET, such as WinForms, ADO.NET etc. The only universal VM, which is around for 7 years is Java Virtual Machine, and it is still intact thanks to Sun.
3] The performance of CLI and JVM are not radically different, except for the client side .NET programs on Windows, since MS knows the OS code only. Sun don't. But it does not matter much, since the computers are fast enough and Java is getting more and more optimised with every release. :)
Cheers.
...day by day, and understood in the end that .NET is not something that special at all. Maybe it is to blame. ;)
Then why I am seeing everyone is converting to Java in the last 2 years? No one is using .NET or planning to use it around. My firm tested it, tried to call some legacy activex controls and unmanaged C++ code, they of course rejected it after a biiiiiiig performance hit. :)
.NET is new. Not tested, not trustable. Java existed 7 years ago. Why should I risk it? Why should I develop in .NET, just another VM based technology, but this time lock myself to Windows? I know that there will be other implementations of .NET, such as Mono on Linux, but those will not be cross platform compatible at all. Even they say it. One reason is that .NET's most important parts are not given to ECMA, such as WinForms and ADO.NET. Do not forget that. MS is still holding the patterns.
.NET my BUTT. I will never use it.
I know lots of developers who shifted to Java from MS platforms though.
etc. etc.
Java rocks! I like it. You may not, its your choice.
Did you ever heard WASP? It is a fantastic Java based web services implementation. www.systinet.com They are also preparing WASP.NET Or check out Glue for Java. It is also very nice. Better go to www.javaskyline.org and checkout existing ways to deal with web services on Java. You might be surprised to see 50 bullets.
:) Thanks. :)
As I told you before, MONO is helping M$, more than it is helping to Linux. :)
"GNOME" Leader my ass. You are just an idiot. Gnome 2 sucks anyway.
I think first he should stop being a MONOpolist wannabee.
Aren't you Mig?
Come to your senses. Also, all the major players in Application Server market, IBM, HP, Fujitsu, JBoss, Sun, BEA, etc., ALL OF THEM SUPPORT J2EE. .NET is supported only by Microsoft. .NET on Linux may become reliable maybe in 3 years. If you check out Gnome 2, you can easily see that it is a failure. The guys are not capable to create a robust system anyways. Even if they are, creating application server is not easy thing. Even JBoss is there for more than 3 years, and this year, they reached production quality.
All the giants in the market have Java based application servers. IBM WebSphere is in its 8th version or something like that, and you say, everyone, will leave this robust, already sold to thousands of customers products and start .NET on Linux, which is new, and untested.
How many times that we should say that .NET's important parts are not given to the standards? Even if they were, what standards would do? Absolutely nothing. Standards my ass. If MS change .NET out of the standards, what will they loose?
Now, monopolist wannabe Icaza changed his mind, started to say, we will not support WinForms at all. Pheewwww. Big deal. I never believed that they can anyway. Even if they did, M$ wouldn't let them.
Please utter some intelligent sentences or don't write at all and spend my precious time.
Miguel is a traitor. :) He only thinks about his fame and fortune. :) He likes licking Billy's balls. :) Lay lay loooom. :)
For some reason. :)
You are a complete idiot Iamthefallen. You can also learn 100 languages more if you want to. Idiot. :)
at once, after the big performance hit they got. They tried to call some ActiveX components from .NET runtime.
.NET my ass!!!!
>>You can write non-client C#
.NET) is better than Java (the language). :) And it has been working for 7 years. It is tested, optimized, getting better and better. All the big firms except for MS is embracing Java anyway. There are hundreds of ready to use libraries, frameworks, successful open source projects, millions of Java developers. The runtimes are getting better and better. It supports real WORA promiss. It will be #1 known language next year. Who cares about C# when there is Java?
.NET to a standards body. .NET. Many important parts are not standardized. They can change those parts and all those work would explode in Icaza's ass. You would have propriatery .NET implementation for Linux, which would not work better than Java. It is another VM anyway.
.NET libraries from the start.
.NET. .NET. My firm tried it, and abandoned it at once, after seeing the huge performance hit. Do not get me wrong. JNI also do not work fast too. No legacy code linking in the world produces results that would make project managers feel confortable. So, forget about calling already implemented code from .NET. It is more related with problem domain. Only some problem domains may permit it.
.NET and JVM comparisons? They are not much different. Even Java is faster in many cases.
.NET will be used on WinCE handhelds.
So What??
>>C# (not even counting all of
But Java is working anyway.
Microsoft has a large deployment base. Lots of people will learn and use C#, because that can mean a job.
And good thing is C# is very close to Java. (Actually it is copy of it with different syntax, and not so important fixes/improvements etc.) So, it will be easy for people to move to Java.
>>Microsoft has submitted C# and some of
Which is nothing. Standards my ass. First they did not standardized every aspect of
>>Microsoft is going to do the work to port to BSD.
Of course they would, since they are planning to release BSD based OS in the future as far as I know. They will start polluting BSD with Windows propriatery
Microsoft Labs members have and continue to make efforts supporting the use of other non-traditional languages on
Which is again useless, language bindings do not work fast. They will never ever work fast enough. It is not efficient to call unmanaged code from
Microsoft isn't afraid to design a platform for performance, unlike Sun.
Are you nuts? Did you ever see
C# and
So what? What I am supposed to do with crap Win CE? On mobiles and handhelds, Java is already becoming a de facto standard. Read some before posting.
Common Java runtimes still run like ass, and the language is a piece of crap.
Do you know something called rimmming?
There are many people who do refuse to shift to C# as a programming language. Only Windows people are being forced to. 90 percent of Java developers will not. .NET is cross-platform". :)
Even the language is here, the tools will be there maybe next year (for Linux), I won't touch a single line of Mono code. Because, there is no need to while there is Java. I know hundreds of Java programmers in Prague, none is interested in C#, and Mono.
Why should I be interested? I am happy with Java. I write a Java program, it works on Linux, Unix, Mac, Windows, Free BSD, etc, etc.
Mono will help to M$ more than it will help to Linux. Now M$ will be able to say, "do you see?
If you ask my real idea, I believe, Mono project is nothing more than product of Ximian's and especially YOUR desire to be famous, etc, since they were always clouded by KDE.
So, take your MONOpolist project and stick it in your ARSE. I will never use it.
Cheers Miguel.
Every .NET implementation helps M$ more than it helps that platform. MONO is helping MONOpolist more than it is helping to M$. I will never use it.
Icaza can keep licking Billy's balls. I definately won't.
Standards is nothing. Totally useless. AND, MS did not give important parts of the .NET to the ECMA. ALSO, Ximian is FINANCING MONO. Thus, there is no Ximian in my future life.
Its all.
GNOME 4 will be written with MONO's C#. Read his interviews at the register etc. I do not like .NET. Even it will help Linux for couple of things, I believe it will help more M$. Look how Miguel is talking about Microsoft etc on Mono site. He is being extremely careful to not to put a grain of dust on M$. This is not something I like. I will use my right to protest and will NEVER use any MONO supported software, or GNOME. If it becomes a big hit on Linux, ok, it is time to move to Free BSD.
Its all. :)
The first day I learned that Ximian is financing the .NET project, I and my 28 friends moved to KDE.
Either this way or that way, every .NET implementation will help M$. M$ supporters are talking about "You see, there are Linux implementations of .NET" in the discussion forums.
Ximian is supporting Mono!, financing Mono (good name for MONOpolist technology implementation).
KDE is not responsible for .NET implementation.
Miguel de Icaza was saying that next versions of Gnome (Gnome 4?) should be .NET. Don't you read The Register etc?
I and lots of friends UNINSTALLED GNOME and INSTALLED KDE after learning that Miguel de Icaza likes to lick Billy's private parts.
I WON'T SUPPORT ANY MONOPOLIST LICKERS, INCLUDING GNOME, AND ICAZA!
Gnome 2 is a calamity anyway. I like KDE. :)
Actually, I did have sex with couple of she-males. They are amazing!!!! :)
Mono, .NET implementation on LINUX is being developed by Ximian, Gnome's creators. Wanna see how Miguel de Icaza is licking MSs private parts? go and read www.go-mono.org Especially read Passport related parts to feel disgusted what lust for power and money can turn people into.
GNOME HELPS MS IN THE NAME OF SAVING ITS OWN FUTURE! (Yes, every single line of code written for .NET is helping MS.)
Lots of my friends uninstalled GNOME the first day they heard them helping MS! KDE is much better anyway. Especially after the Gnome 2 calamity. :)
Doesn't matter for me. I already uninstalled Gnome and now using happily KDE the day icaza revealed .NET on Linux is financed by Ximian. I don't like projects like MONO, implementation of MONOpolist technology.