This idea has been promoted extensively by the Unification Church (aka "Moonies," followers of Sun Myung Moon). They've been taking collections for their version of this project for many years...
I ran into the same issue. What's really odd is that in most hospitals, even if you opt not to donate anything the hospital can keep anything you have not specifically arranged for disposal. In other words, placentas, umbilical cords, other tissue/fluid can be collected and used for research unless you have requested that it be incinerated.
An issue that I think keeps being dodged with the whole stem cell issue is the ownership of the cells. If, as current laws hold, the future of a fetus is a choice of the woman carrying the fetus, then all decisions about the fetal tissue and other materials should lay with the woman. So, those stem cells are mine (whether from fetus or amniotic fluid) and it is my choice about what to do with them. It's very weird to me that some types of disposal lay with the state (or the industry) and others lay with the individuals.
Of course that was 20 (yikes) years ago, so perhaps my reasons were different from what is being tracked now.
I was first enrolled in public schools in San Francisco, California during the 70s. I was lucky to be an advanced kid, moved ahead in kindergarten to gifted/AP classes because my parents taught me how to read, write and perform simple math before I started school. I loved school and found it extremely stimulating but by the time I reached high school things started taking a turn for the worse.
California passed Proposition 13 ("People's Initiative to Limit Property Taxation") in 1978, and although its long term impacts can be debated, effects in the classroom were pretty clear to me. I went from class sizes of 25 to 40; we frequently had no textbooks (ah the smell of freshly "dittoed" paper); equipment was shoddy and never replaced; teachers were visibly overwhelmed. I went from being a smart, attentive kid to being a really bored kid who found nonsanctioned extracurricular ways to be engaged.
If I had the resources to transfer to a private or specialized public school might I have reengaged or was I just headed for delinquency regardless? Who knows, but when I dropped out in my senior year I promptly enrolled in our local community college and took classes while working for the next 5 years. From there I went on to obtain my bachelors and masters degrees -- college gave me much more of what I needed in terms of structure, challenge and independent growth.
My parents weren't happy that I dropped out but their take on it was that the school system wasn't providing me with what I needed, and the college system might. I definitely wasn't ready for a 4 year program (either in terms of academic preparation or in having goals to achieve) but just taking college level classes and having the time to try things out was invaluable for me. Work alone would not have provided me with what I needed.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the standard track where kids plow through high school and go straight to the 4 year college. It seems like they are expected to know what they want to do in too short of a time. Granted, some do -- and some just spend a lot of time partying, being a waste of tuition payments, and end up in less than satisfying jobs wondering "WTF am I doing with myself". There's a lot to be said for growth using other exercises, like traveling or learning to support oneself.
It's not enough to track the dropout rate; you have to know what people do when they drop out. It actually makes me curious to know how many people fulfill their reqs for masters or doctorate and then never complete the thesis work...
A couple of thoughts, probably reiterating other posts...
- I doubt that what you are seeing are cliques; it may be worthwhile reevaluating your ideas about female and male social behavior. (In fact, just observing around the office should show you the difference.) In general men don't have the "chick clique" approach to socializing and probably don't assess who they talk to in the office as much as women do. It always looks to me like men just go up and talk to each other.
- Be professional. Know your stuff and do a good job. Ask questions and learn from your coworkers. This will help identify any possible issues such as fear of sexual harassment, fear of women, shyness, preoccupation, or introspection (a.k.a. "I'm a serious nerd but just because I dodge eye contact and act socially retarded doesn't mean I can't have a conversation when the topic is relevant.") The more you learn about people the better you can determine whether you even want to hang out with them in the first place.
- Be clear on what you want from your coworkers. Are you looking for new friends? Do you just want them to say hi to you in the morning? Do you need to network/gossip to familiarize yourself with the workplace culture? Do you enjoy technical banter? Are you trying to figure out what all the different positions and departments do? Different people have different responses to these interactions, and likewise what you would like from them may vary widely.
I find that for offices the idea of anyone being "welcoming" to new employees is really a factor of the office policies, culture and politics. In some places I have been given tours and introduced to everyone; in others I worked for years and nobody knew who I was. Honestly, I like to just sit and plug away at my work so my social circle at work is usually very compact and limited to the folks I interact with to get tasks done. I realize I have been very fortunate but the men I have worked with have shown good camaraderie which over time extended to the occasional obscene yet relatively tame joke (much tamer than the ones my uncle sends me on a regular basis) and beers after work.
I'm not sure that men should do anything special to welcome a woman to the workplace; regardless of gender, people should be courteous, introduce themselves to each other and explain what their position entails when they are going to work together.
Well, reading the first 182 comments posted here it's pretty clear why women still need dedicated users'/developers' groups. The stereotype humor appears to be alive and well:
- ponies - pink - periods - pedicures
As a woman in IT, I have actually found the majority of men in IT either don't care about women in IT or else are actively interested in broadening diversity in the field. (Mind you, that applies not only to gender but to ethnicity and other criteria as well.) Then there's that minority, the stereotype bitter socially retarded geeks with chips on their shoulders, doomed to eternally relive some perceived rejection from a woman or girl that dates back to elementary school...
To those (whose postings I found so typical of their group) I say, what do you care if there are specialized programs targeted towards women? You are the majority participants, are you really that threatened if a bunch of girlies with sub-par technical skills (as you like to describe them) sit around, do their nails, doodle ponies and contribute to FOSS? I am flabbergasted to imagine how such an activity would have any impact on you whatsoever.
If you are really concerned that the quality of FOSS will somehow decline, may I remind you of the peer review system. Even supposing any of the women's groups were to promote something that was of no use to the larger user/developer base, it would be critically reviewed and sent back for revision or else shot down completely. My point is that it shouldn't be an issue how people arrive at solutions; let them gather, support each other, brainstorm and develop in the forums that suit them best.
Users/developers form specialized groups all the time, whether it be because of their gender, location, belief system or what have you. The news here is not so much the groups -- it's whether the percentage of women in FOSS may be higher than is popularly understood. All the hogwash about women not being interested in IT, not having the innate skills etc. aside, we're here and we're working away on the same projects men do. This may come as a horrible shock, but there are women who excel in the field.
Personally I'm all for it. Let there be women's groups, gay groups, blue collar groups, Hindi groups, what have you. Let people work and network in whatever ways increase the brain trust. It's the results that count.
Re: "everyone from Microsoft to IBM has a message on their frontpage," I'm surprised to see nothing from RedHat, who hosted their first ever summit in New Orleans this year. In fact, their end of conference parade went right by the convention center. It would be nice to see them contribute to this kiosk effort.
1997 - graduated with bachelor's in Communication
1997 to 2000 - entered tech field during boom, liked it, thrived on it, wanted to dig in
2000 through 2003 - back to school (people told me I was crazy for quitting my job), tech freelancer
2003 - graduated master's CS, full time employment
2005 - web applications architect
For me, it was a matter of being given an opportunity to enter the tech field and discovering I thrive there. I give a lot of credit to my first sys admin boss who taught me from the ground up. Returning to school was about getting the theory and structure behind what I learned hands-on.
I'm not a natural; I needed those years on the job to get a taste before I could apply myself academically.
...and I'm not leaving IT. Quite frankly, I don't see that having kids or dealing with the random skeptical male colleague is going to change that. I might not be the best programmer but I am always intrigued and challenged - programming, sysadmin and dba satisfy a part of my brain that nothing else can. My career trajectory indicates that I have done a damn good job so far.
It isn't always easy to be surrounded by men in IT. We talk differently and often think differently: I don't feel the need to throw all those acronyms around and half the time I don't retain what they mean. The kinds of things I actually keep in my brain and the ways I apply them tend to be different than my male colleagues. I'm also married to a programmer and we notice the differences in our work habits.
I had practially no geek tendencies as a child, other than being somewhat socially retarded and taking apart watches. I was an English major and fell into IT via documenting and debugging. When I went for my master's in IT, it was about learning the structure and history behind what I'd learned on the job.
Why do fewer girls get into IT? Who knows. It could the classroom thing, the cultural thing, the odd male geek thing. Maybe we do learn differently and we have to parse the information in ways that works for us. Maybe it's as simple as not showing our daughters how to tear down and rebuild a PC. Maybe it's something that appeals less to girls than to women.
I'd be curious to know what those IT jobs are that women are leaving. I know quite a few "webmistresses" who have gone back to publishing or graphic design, but no female programmers or IT execs (yes, they exist) who have left the field.
Re:The future of the internet
on
Ruling the Root
·
· Score: 1
Loss of control is completely relevant, as is the illusion of free speech. True, the system as it currently exists allows anyone to publish ***within the parameters of the system***. By contrast, consider pirate/free radio: there is an alternative for small independent broadcasters. Resources exist for radio hackers to get out there and broadcast whatever they like from their vans, potentially bypassing the FCC completely. There is no similar mechanism for publishing on the worldwide network because every domain and ip address is monitored and registered. Even hacking another's site or grabbing ips has propagation and persistence issues...
Slashdot Mirror
This idea has been promoted extensively by the Unification Church (aka "Moonies," followers of Sun Myung Moon). They've been taking collections for their version of this project for many years...
Just wondering how many might opt to do so...we took regeneration tech into consideration when debating circumcision for our son...
I ran into the same issue. What's really odd is that in most hospitals, even if you opt not to donate anything the hospital can keep anything you have not specifically arranged for disposal. In other words, placentas, umbilical cords, other tissue/fluid can be collected and used for research unless you have requested that it be incinerated.
An issue that I think keeps being dodged with the whole stem cell issue is the ownership of the cells. If, as current laws hold, the future of a fetus is a choice of the woman carrying the fetus, then all decisions about the fetal tissue and other materials should lay with the woman. So, those stem cells are mine (whether from fetus or amniotic fluid) and it is my choice about what to do with them. It's very weird to me that some types of disposal lay with the state (or the industry) and others lay with the individuals.
Of course that was 20 (yikes) years ago, so perhaps my reasons were different from what is being tracked now.
I was first enrolled in public schools in San Francisco, California during the 70s. I was lucky to be an advanced kid, moved ahead in kindergarten to gifted/AP classes because my parents taught me how to read, write and perform simple math before I started school. I loved school and found it extremely stimulating but by the time I reached high school things started taking a turn for the worse.
California passed Proposition 13 ("People's Initiative to Limit Property Taxation") in 1978, and although its long term impacts can be debated, effects in the classroom were pretty clear to me. I went from class sizes of 25 to 40; we frequently had no textbooks (ah the smell of freshly "dittoed" paper); equipment was shoddy and never replaced; teachers were visibly overwhelmed. I went from being a smart, attentive kid to being a really bored kid who found nonsanctioned extracurricular ways to be engaged.
If I had the resources to transfer to a private or specialized public school might I have reengaged or was I just headed for delinquency regardless? Who knows, but when I dropped out in my senior year I promptly enrolled in our local community college and took classes while working for the next 5 years. From there I went on to obtain my bachelors and masters degrees -- college gave me much more of what I needed in terms of structure, challenge and independent growth.
My parents weren't happy that I dropped out but their take on it was that the school system wasn't providing me with what I needed, and the college system might. I definitely wasn't ready for a 4 year program (either in terms of academic preparation or in having goals to achieve) but just taking college level classes and having the time to try things out was invaluable for me. Work alone would not have provided me with what I needed.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the standard track where kids plow through high school and go straight to the 4 year college. It seems like they are expected to know what they want to do in too short of a time. Granted, some do -- and some just spend a lot of time partying, being a waste of tuition payments, and end up in less than satisfying jobs wondering "WTF am I doing with myself". There's a lot to be said for growth using other exercises, like traveling or learning to support oneself.
It's not enough to track the dropout rate; you have to know what people do when they drop out. It actually makes me curious to know how many people fulfill their reqs for masters or doctorate and then never complete the thesis work...
A couple of thoughts, probably reiterating other posts...
- I doubt that what you are seeing are cliques; it may be worthwhile reevaluating your ideas about female and male social behavior. (In fact, just observing around the office should show you the difference.) In general men don't have the "chick clique" approach to socializing and probably don't assess who they talk to in the office as much as women do. It always looks to me like men just go up and talk to each other.
- Be professional. Know your stuff and do a good job. Ask questions and learn from your coworkers. This will help identify any possible issues such as fear of sexual harassment, fear of women, shyness, preoccupation, or introspection (a.k.a. "I'm a serious nerd but just because I dodge eye contact and act socially retarded doesn't mean I can't have a conversation when the topic is relevant.") The more you learn about people the better you can determine whether you even want to hang out with them in the first place.
- Be clear on what you want from your coworkers. Are you looking for new friends? Do you just want them to say hi to you in the morning? Do you need to network/gossip to familiarize yourself with the workplace culture? Do you enjoy technical banter? Are you trying to figure out what all the different positions and departments do? Different people have different responses to these interactions, and likewise what you would like from them may vary widely.
I find that for offices the idea of anyone being "welcoming" to new employees is really a factor of the office policies, culture and politics. In some places I have been given tours and introduced to everyone; in others I worked for years and nobody knew who I was. Honestly, I like to just sit and plug away at my work so my social circle at work is usually very compact and limited to the folks I interact with to get tasks done. I realize I have been very fortunate but the men I have worked with have shown good camaraderie which over time extended to the occasional obscene yet relatively tame joke (much tamer than the ones my uncle sends me on a regular basis) and beers after work.
I'm not sure that men should do anything special to welcome a woman to the workplace; regardless of gender, people should be courteous, introduce themselves to each other and explain what their position entails when they are going to work together.
Well, reading the first 182 comments posted here it's pretty clear why women still need dedicated users'/developers' groups. The stereotype humor appears to be alive and well:
- ponies
- pink
- periods
- pedicures
As a woman in IT, I have actually found the majority of men in IT either don't care about women in IT or else are actively interested in broadening diversity in the field. (Mind you, that applies not only to gender but to ethnicity and other criteria as well.) Then there's that minority, the stereotype bitter socially retarded geeks with chips on their shoulders, doomed to eternally relive some perceived rejection from a woman or girl that dates back to elementary school...
To those (whose postings I found so typical of their group) I say, what do you care if there are specialized programs targeted towards women? You are the majority participants, are you really that threatened if a bunch of girlies with sub-par technical skills (as you like to describe them) sit around, do their nails, doodle ponies and contribute to FOSS? I am flabbergasted to imagine how such an activity would have any impact on you whatsoever.
If you are really concerned that the quality of FOSS will somehow decline, may I remind you of the peer review system. Even supposing any of the women's groups were to promote something that was of no use to the larger user/developer base, it would be critically reviewed and sent back for revision or else shot down completely. My point is that it shouldn't be an issue how people arrive at solutions; let them gather, support each other, brainstorm and develop in the forums that suit them best.
Users/developers form specialized groups all the time, whether it be because of their gender, location, belief system or what have you. The news here is not so much the groups -- it's whether the percentage of women in FOSS may be higher than is popularly understood. All the hogwash about women not being interested in IT, not having the innate skills etc. aside, we're here and we're working away on the same projects men do. This may come as a horrible shock, but there are women who excel in the field.
Personally I'm all for it. Let there be women's groups, gay groups, blue collar groups, Hindi groups, what have you. Let people work and network in whatever ways increase the brain trust. It's the results that count.
Re: "everyone from Microsoft to IBM has a message on their frontpage," I'm surprised to see nothing from RedHat, who hosted their first ever summit in New Orleans this year. In fact, their end of conference parade went right by the convention center. It would be nice to see them contribute to this kiosk effort.
1997 - graduated with bachelor's in Communication
1997 to 2000 - entered tech field during boom, liked it, thrived on it, wanted to dig in
2000 through 2003 - back to school (people told me I was crazy for quitting my job), tech freelancer
2003 - graduated master's CS, full time employment
2005 - web applications architect
For me, it was a matter of being given an opportunity to enter the tech field and discovering I thrive there. I give a lot of credit to my first sys admin boss who taught me from the ground up. Returning to school was about getting the theory and structure behind what I learned hands-on.
I'm not a natural; I needed those years on the job to get a taste before I could apply myself academically.
There's also free WiFi provided by the city in downtown Oakland, in range of Frank Ogawa Plaza.
It isn't always easy to be surrounded by men in IT. We talk differently and often think differently: I don't feel the need to throw all those acronyms around and half the time I don't retain what they mean. The kinds of things I actually keep in my brain and the ways I apply them tend to be different than my male colleagues. I'm also married to a programmer and we notice the differences in our work habits.
I had practially no geek tendencies as a child, other than being somewhat socially retarded and taking apart watches. I was an English major and fell into IT via documenting and debugging. When I went for my master's in IT, it was about learning the structure and history behind what I'd learned on the job.
Why do fewer girls get into IT? Who knows. It could the classroom thing, the cultural thing, the odd male geek thing. Maybe we do learn differently and we have to parse the information in ways that works for us. Maybe it's as simple as not showing our daughters how to tear down and rebuild a PC. Maybe it's something that appeals less to girls than to women.
I'd be curious to know what those IT jobs are that women are leaving. I know quite a few "webmistresses" who have gone back to publishing or graphic design, but no female programmers or IT execs (yes, they exist) who have left the field.
Loss of control is completely relevant, as is the illusion of free speech. True, the system as it currently exists allows anyone to publish ***within the parameters of the system***. By contrast, consider pirate/free radio: there is an alternative for small independent broadcasters. Resources exist for radio hackers to get out there and broadcast whatever they like from their vans, potentially bypassing the FCC completely. There is no similar mechanism for publishing on the worldwide network because every domain and ip address is monitored and registered. Even hacking another's site or grabbing ips has propagation and persistence issues...