There can be methods where when the server asks you to verify you're client they send variable chunk of data('token') to use to calculate your checksum with such that you HAVE to calculate the checksum with the token and not use a pregened checksum(or pregen for every possible token).
Also they could simply send a random start and finish point within the executable and require a hash of just that range which would also make pregened not work.
Drawback is that all this verifies is that you have a copy of the prefered executable to run the algo on, not that that is what you're using to play with.
OK clearly answering a troll here, but I will anyway.
Though your tone is way off base the substance isn't so much (except the 'footnote' that's just flaim-bait).
None of the books are cannon this is correct. Also IIRC it was one the books Shatner wrote (or had a ghost writer do for him). And yes it a retrofit designed in part to tie the two series together.
While I'm not a rabid fan of the show as some are I do recognize it's cultural impact. I also find it entertaining.
I like science fiction because for me it's in part about the great potential I see for us if we make it that far. Since the original show aired we've manage to make communicators ('flip-phone' anyone?) and the original series had a couple episodes where they had stored computer data in these thin square plastic looking things that were about 1/4" thick and nearly 3.5" on a side (thought the micro floppy disc is on the way out now).
We also named the first shuttle Enterprise, though as a prototype it has never been orbited.
I just finished watching the Farscape movie (never saw any of the original series, but liked the movie) and it ended with a baby being held up to face the stars "and that is your playground". I sincerely hope that aplies to us.
How many engineers and inventors were inspired by Star Trek or Star Wars or works of Niven and Asimov and Clark and Heinlein among others?
So scoff at Science Fiction if you want, me I'll keep reading and watching and dreaming of what we may someday achieve and do and see. Perhaps you'll be pleasantly suprised with the wonders the dreamers and do-ers bring us and I can't say that's bad, but I think I prefer to enjoy the ride looking forward rather than with my eyes closed.
Actually it's based on trying to sound 'folksy' or 'like the guy next door'. Saw some old footage of him the other day, very early in his political carrer where his pronounciation was of nuclear was correct and the rest of his diction matched his ivy league education.
It's all showmanship.
I've had the handle Mycroft since spring 1984 (WWIV, MTABBS, Color64(co-ran one of those for a time), etc.) but I don't think I'm a computer god, mid grade priest with a few minor miracles perhaps.
But yeah, those WERE communities back then. Imagine 20+ people who'd mostly never laid eyes on each other, yet had known each other for many a moon finally getting together at a roller rink. A strange sort of akwardness for a while that just evaporates as people start talking and quickly forget thier mental images of each other and start remembering the PERSON thier talking to. As much as I like the net, it didn't come without without a price that still leaves me a bit sad.
I have no real clue other than it was marked like a regular house cat(tan and white patches with a few dark ones) but was definately more than twice the hight (at shoulder) of any other house cat I've ever seen.
In one of the books he did use a sort of prototype to re-try some old mission of his, it required a bulky suit and it was durring his time as an admiral. The mention of it was brief as the book opened with him getting out of the suit and wishing it worked better and wasn't so bulky.
That's about all I can remember about it.
Actually the fact that everything apears to be receding from us IS in line with the big bang theory, which would not put us at the center of the universe.
The reason is that the universe is expaning, space itself (including the space between stars and galaxies,etc.) is increasing and everything is moving away from everything else. You'd see the same thing even if you could magically teleport to some far off galactic cluster.
Not really trying to take sides here, but the following paragraph has serious issues that detract from your credibility.
As far as what is affected by changes in the theory of relativity, GPS is not one of them. Triangulation has nothing to do with relativity. But carbon-14 dating would be affected. The method of carbon-14 dating employs calculations based on relativity, for radioactive decay.
GPS does indeed use relativity. It is triangulation based, but with corrections based on the theory it's accuracy would far worse than the what the deliberate errors give civilian recievers. IIRC the accuracy without the relativity based correction is such that hitting a particular square killometer is as hard as hitting a specific office building is with it.
Carbon-14 dating relies on decay of the radioactive carbon-14 atom, this relies on quantum mechanics not relativity.
As far as suspecting Relativity is not complete, well scientist have been certain of this for a while, it doesn't cover most of what QM covers and vice versa. It's certain one or both of those two theories need some work to be complete.
Also I wouldn't frame all scientist as being biased to prove or disprove god the way you did, many really don't worry about it one way or the other. Some do things like that, eigther from bias, or from the belief that what they've seen/learned from science is strong evidence one way or the other.
The noise these scientist make is often the sensalist noise that makes the news when the ones who find a clever way to slow light in a crystal to a few Km/s don't even though the latter may help build a quantum computer. To some degree it's like saying every one in the middle east is a violent extremist or everyone living in a trailer has been in a tornado or cooked meth because that's all you see on the tv.
Understand I'm not trying to pick on you, but taking a noisy few for the whole or trying to refute a statement with ignorance (not that I haven't made that mistake myself) does hurt credibility.
Once or twice I saw what apeared to be a housecat (classic housecat coloration) but even though normaly proportioned was almost twice the size.
I don't know if it's possible to crossbreed a housecat and a mountain lion, but that would explain it.
This was in my 'back yard' (about 40 acres at the time) in southern Missouri. It was sitting next to fair sized rock that AFTER it left I walked up to to make shure I wasn't simply being fooled by missreading how far away it was. The rock came up to the bottom of my knee (I'm 6' or a bit over 180cm) and the cat was about just slightly taller at the shoulder.
The other time I saw it was at a fair distance up a tree, I did NOT get closer as I was out of sight of the house and I didn't hang around long.
The human body already does something like this. If you touch a really hot object (say red hot metal) the way past limit signal hits the spinal cord and sets off a the pull-back reflex signal to the muscles even as the signal is being sent to the brain.
And yes having a fairly low level processors (say l2) be normally set to act on it's own initiative unless a higher level overides might make sense. Given that for such tasks and signals the system would likely be much faster than human nervous system you could react faster at the same distance. It's in the more complex tasks that the brain excells, where the parrellel nature of neurons (and other properties they have) exceed modern cpu's.
Heh, yeah I've thought about this a bit. Two of my fantasy mad scientis inventions are an android and Power armor, which share some of these problems. The other is a time machine.
It's a bit related to subsumption architechture in robotics, thought I didn't originaly think of it that way and intend to study more on that subject. It's just obvious to me that semi-independant semi-hiarchical controll/processing is the way to do it rather than try and do it all as one big cpu and software. Especially when you consider all the work the feet do keep you ballanced and moving smoothly while walking through 5 toes and the ankle pivot. Or all the work hand do in so many tasks.
Teach the tiny components the details and the biger components then know just enough to order the next size down around and take feedback.
To many layers could creat propogation delays and errors of imprecision, but then wires are faster than neurons and all sorts of minor errors that have to be constantly corrected 'in flight' occure in humans.
If there is enough task specific learning capability and such at a low enough level the system could cope. Add in simple neural networks at say l2 or l3 and use GA's to find good fit baselines for them and the higher level heuristics have less to deal with specifics wise most of the time.
Of course all these processors and various actuators will generate some heat (as might the power source), but if your emulating a human, a fluid cooled system (colored appropriately) could double as a mimic for a blood system and help provide 'body heat'. You could also pass cool air past some of these 'blood vessels' via a breathing mimicing system.
Of course a mimic for the muscular system is a bit tricky. There are some pnumatic(sp?) muscle systems that somewhat behave like human muscles (rubber tubes in a mesh so that expaning the tubes shorten them) but I'm uncertain how thier strength and deformation properties compare to human muscles. Some other candidates are clearly not powerfull enough to do the job and if the same holds true for the phumatic muscles then more traditional motors and actuators may have to do some to most of the work with the other system being largely cosmetic in purpose. And of course the response time is important.
And the problems with robotic vision are infamous, though progress is being made.
It's all fun mental excersize though.
The fact that I could reproduce the problem with telnet should have instantly eliminated any thoughts of the headers having ANYTHING to do with it unless the SERVER is processing them.
That's my point, lack of understanding of the basics by those supposedly offering tech support.
Telnet is essentially a terminal connection of tcp/ip, at this point the user is the one implementing pop3.
Also headers are just lines in a text file when you get down to it, the ONLY thing that makes them special relative to the rest of the email file is how the mail client handles them.
Here are some links, first pop3 is at <URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1939.txt> and the wiki entry on telnet is particularly on point in places for this discussion http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc855.txt<URL:http://en.w ikipedia.org/wiki/Telnet>.
Telnet also has two rfc entries and pop3 it's own wiki entry: <URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc854.txt>,<URL:http ://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc855.txt> and <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POP3>.
I hope these help you to understand why I got frustrated, the tech guy had NO clue what telnet was, and frankly tech support an isp should no at least something more than JOE sixpack about the net and basic net utilities (though a simple chart for L1's would be enough to know to get a real tech).
*SIGH* you still didn't read and/or didn't understand what I said originally, had nothing to do with headers.
Telnet doesn't care about email headers, it's not a mail client. When using telnet to get email YOU are the pop3 client in a way. You send the base pop3 commands (list, del, send, top, etc.) and parse the replies yourself.
*I* sent the raw command (via telnet) to send a particular message, the message starts, gets well past the header and partway through the actual message itself then the server just drops the connection. It doesn't matter whether I've read or deleted the previous messages or even messages after. When It was happening if it bombed out on line 44 of the message the first time it'll bomb at the EXACT same point every time.
You are making me suspect something in thier training/culture at mindsring/earthlink creates tunnel vision. It's like calling your isp about some issues with your cable modem constantly being throttled by them to 14.4k and them insisting it's something wrong with the adsl filters on the phone jack and thus the phone comapanies fault, no matter what you tell them about having a cable connection.
Again I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight, but you are doing a beautifull job demonstrating why I don't deal with thier tech support people unless I have to and usually ask for a higher level tech when I do.
Mostly I agree, however I would like to point out that not all the components for a funtional finger need to be in the finger itself. Make tight fist while watching the fore-arm on the same arm.
Same could go for some of the electronics related to sensor amplification and such.
Though I do agree we are still a good ways from human equalivance in artificial muscles and skin sensors.
Actually I think there might be a way to handle so many sensors.
for every few hundred or so have a very simple processor that just looks for sensors that need attention (nearing temp/pressure boundries, changing enough to warrent attention, ect.) then when something happens it sends a simple message upstream to a more important processor (HEY sensor #252 is getting hot fast!) that processor then converts the info from it's subs into more general info for the main system and passes it on (LEFT HAND MELTING!). Of course the higher processors should be able to set alert criterion for lower processors and even query for specifics, but outside of the main system focusing it's attention it mostly just processes simple all o.k. messages from a small handfull of surface sensor agregators.
I know I'm rarely aware of more than a general sense of to what degree I'm comfortable unless I specifically focus such as when testing the water temp in the shower or when accidently stub a toe.
I got a serious case of deje-vu reading your reply, it was a lot like that tech support call.
I say email and EVEN though I made it clear (to any with any clue what pop3 and telnet are) the problem was the server you still said it was OE related, it WASN'T.
I'm not trying to flame, but I SAID I used telneted in and used straight pop3 commands and it would bork partway through a bad message. It was the mail SERVER borking and borking mid-stream.
Again I'm not trying to flame, please try reading through what I said and I hope you can see why your reply that it was a standard problem with OE made as little sense as thier tech people saying so.
FWIW Mindspring is still a valid domain, though it re-directs to earthlink. And I know people who still have a mindspring email address.
I used *55 once on my phone and got the Highway Patroll right away. It was a car on fire( 3ft/1m flames from the hood!). I asked the other guys looking on if they'd called and they said they assumed the owner had.
Slashdot Mirror
There can be methods where when the server asks you to verify you're client they send variable chunk of data('token') to use to calculate your checksum with such that you HAVE to calculate the checksum with the token and not use a pregened checksum(or pregen for every possible token).
Also they could simply send a random start and finish point within the executable and require a hash of just that range which would also make pregened not work.
Drawback is that all this verifies is that you have a copy of the prefered executable to run the algo on, not that that is what you're using to play with.
Mycroft
OK clearly answering a troll here, but I will anyway.
Though your tone is way off base the substance isn't so much (except the 'footnote' that's just flaim-bait).
None of the books are cannon this is correct. Also IIRC it was one the books Shatner wrote (or had a ghost writer do for him). And yes it a retrofit designed in part to tie the two series together.
While I'm not a rabid fan of the show as some are I do recognize it's cultural impact. I also find it entertaining.
I like science fiction because for me it's in part about the great potential I see for us if we make it that far. Since the original show aired we've manage to make communicators ('flip-phone' anyone?) and the original series had a couple episodes where they had stored computer data in these thin square plastic looking things that were about 1/4" thick and nearly 3.5" on a side (thought the micro floppy disc is on the way out now).
We also named the first shuttle Enterprise, though as a prototype it has never been orbited.
I just finished watching the Farscape movie (never saw any of the original series, but liked the movie) and it ended with a baby being held up to face the stars "and that is your playground". I sincerely hope that aplies to us.
How many engineers and inventors were inspired by Star Trek or Star Wars or works of Niven and Asimov and Clark and Heinlein among others?
So scoff at Science Fiction if you want, me I'll keep reading and watching and dreaming of what we may someday achieve and do and see. Perhaps you'll be pleasantly suprised with the wonders the dreamers and do-ers bring us and I can't say that's bad, but I think I prefer to enjoy the ride looking forward rather than with my eyes closed.
Mycroft
Actually it's based on trying to sound 'folksy' or 'like the guy next door'. Saw some old footage of him the other day, very early in his political carrer where his pronounciation was of nuclear was correct and the rest of his diction matched his ivy league education.
It's all showmanship.
Mycroft
I've had the handle Mycroft since spring 1984 (WWIV, MTABBS, Color64(co-ran one of those for a time), etc.) but I don't think I'm a computer god, mid grade priest with a few minor miracles perhaps.
But yeah, those WERE communities back then. Imagine 20+ people who'd mostly never laid eyes on each other, yet had known each other for many a moon finally getting together at a roller rink. A strange sort of akwardness for a while that just evaporates as people start talking and quickly forget thier mental images of each other and start remembering the PERSON thier talking to. As much as I like the net, it didn't come without without a price that still leaves me a bit sad.
Mycroft
IIRC all the five senses EXCEPT smell are filtered before being presented to the brain for anylysis.
Mycroft
But if a malfunction sucks, is it really a malfunction?
Mycroft
AH I misread your intent, I thought you were only refering to redshift.
Not shure about the shell thing. IANAC
Mcyroft
I have no real clue other than it was marked like a regular house cat(tan and white patches with a few dark ones) but was definately more than twice the hight (at shoulder) of any other house cat I've ever seen.
Mycroft
In one of the books he did use a sort of prototype to re-try some old mission of his, it required a bulky suit and it was durring his time as an admiral. The mention of it was brief as the book opened with him getting out of the suit and wishing it worked better and wasn't so bulky.
That's about all I can remember about it.
Mycroft
Actually the fact that everything apears to be receding from us IS in line with the big bang theory, which would not put us at the center of the universe.
The reason is that the universe is expaning, space itself (including the space between stars and galaxies,etc.) is increasing and everything is moving away from everything else. You'd see the same thing even if you could magically teleport to some far off galactic cluster.
Mycroft
GPS does indeed use relativity. It is triangulation based, but with corrections based on the theory it's accuracy would far worse than the what the deliberate errors give civilian recievers. IIRC the accuracy without the relativity based correction is such that hitting a particular square killometer is as hard as hitting a specific office building is with it.
Carbon-14 dating relies on decay of the radioactive carbon-14 atom, this relies on quantum mechanics not relativity.
As far as suspecting Relativity is not complete, well scientist have been certain of this for a while, it doesn't cover most of what QM covers and vice versa. It's certain one or both of those two theories need some work to be complete.
Also I wouldn't frame all scientist as being biased to prove or disprove god the way you did, many really don't worry about it one way or the other. Some do things like that, eigther from bias, or from the belief that what they've seen/learned from science is strong evidence one way or the other.
The noise these scientist make is often the sensalist noise that makes the news when the ones who find a clever way to slow light in a crystal to a few Km/s don't even though the latter may help build a quantum computer. To some degree it's like saying every one in the middle east is a violent extremist or everyone living in a trailer has been in a tornado or cooked meth because that's all you see on the tv.
Understand I'm not trying to pick on you, but taking a noisy few for the whole or trying to refute a statement with ignorance (not that I haven't made that mistake myself) does hurt credibility.
Mycroft
Once or twice I saw what apeared to be a housecat (classic housecat coloration) but even though normaly proportioned was almost twice the size.
I don't know if it's possible to crossbreed a housecat and a mountain lion, but that would explain it.
This was in my 'back yard' (about 40 acres at the time) in southern Missouri. It was sitting next to fair sized rock that AFTER it left I walked up to to make shure I wasn't simply being fooled by missreading how far away it was. The rock came up to the bottom of my knee (I'm 6' or a bit over 180cm) and the cat was about just slightly taller at the shoulder.
The other time I saw it was at a fair distance up a tree, I did NOT get closer as I was out of sight of the house and I didn't hang around long.
Mycroft
I thought it was: :)
"if you have to ask then our salesman gets a chance o con you into buying someyhing"
Mycroft
thanks, a bit pricy for my level of intrest though. Perhaps if money improves.
Mycroft
Thanks for answering. Cost much? I imagine so, but if not to bad I might look into getting one.
Mycroft
The human body already does something like this. If you touch a really hot object (say red hot metal) the way past limit signal hits the spinal cord and sets off a the pull-back reflex signal to the muscles even as the signal is being sent to the brain.
And yes having a fairly low level processors (say l2) be normally set to act on it's own initiative unless a higher level overides might make sense. Given that for such tasks and signals the system would likely be much faster than human nervous system you could react faster at the same distance. It's in the more complex tasks that the brain excells, where the parrellel nature of neurons (and other properties they have) exceed modern cpu's.
Mycroft
Heh, yeah I've thought about this a bit. Two of my fantasy mad scientis inventions are an android and Power armor, which share some of these problems. The other is a time machine.
It's a bit related to subsumption architechture in robotics, thought I didn't originaly think of it that way and intend to study more on that subject. It's just obvious to me that semi-independant semi-hiarchical controll/processing is the way to do it rather than try and do it all as one big cpu and software. Especially when you consider all the work the feet do keep you ballanced and moving smoothly while walking through 5 toes and the ankle pivot. Or all the work hand do in so many tasks.
Teach the tiny components the details and the biger components then know just enough to order the next size down around and take feedback.
To many layers could creat propogation delays and errors of imprecision, but then wires are faster than neurons and all sorts of minor errors that have to be constantly corrected 'in flight' occure in humans.
If there is enough task specific learning capability and such at a low enough level the system could cope. Add in simple neural networks at say l2 or l3 and use GA's to find good fit baselines for them and the higher level heuristics have less to deal with specifics wise most of the time.
Of course all these processors and various actuators will generate some heat (as might the power source), but if your emulating a human, a fluid cooled system (colored appropriately) could double as a mimic for a blood system and help provide 'body heat'. You could also pass cool air past some of these 'blood vessels' via a breathing mimicing system.
Of course a mimic for the muscular system is a bit tricky. There are some pnumatic(sp?) muscle systems that somewhat behave like human muscles (rubber tubes in a mesh so that expaning the tubes shorten them) but I'm uncertain how thier strength and deformation properties compare to human muscles. Some other candidates are clearly not powerfull enough to do the job and if the same holds true for the phumatic muscles then more traditional motors and actuators may have to do some to most of the work with the other system being largely cosmetic in purpose. And of course the response time is important.
And the problems with robotic vision are infamous, though progress is being made.
It's all fun mental excersize though.
Mycroft
Whoops, forgott to change the posting setting so the url's would be clickable sorry.
Mycroft
The fact that I could reproduce the problem with telnet should have instantly eliminated any thoughts of the headers having ANYTHING to do with it unless the SERVER is processing them.w ikipedia.org/wiki/Telnet>.p ://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc855.txt> and <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POP3>.
That's my point, lack of understanding of the basics by those supposedly offering tech support.
Telnet is essentially a terminal connection of tcp/ip, at this point the user is the one implementing pop3.
Also headers are just lines in a text file when you get down to it, the ONLY thing that makes them special relative to the rest of the email file is how the mail client handles them.
Here are some links, first pop3 is at <URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1939.txt> and the wiki entry on telnet is particularly on point in places for this discussion http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc855.txt<URL:http://en.
Telnet also has two rfc entries and pop3 it's own wiki entry: <URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc854.txt>,<URL:htt
I hope these help you to understand why I got frustrated, the tech guy had NO clue what telnet was, and frankly tech support an isp should no at least something more than JOE sixpack about the net and basic net utilities (though a simple chart for L1's would be enough to know to get a real tech).
Mycroft
*SIGH* you still didn't read and/or didn't understand what I said originally, had nothing to do with headers.
Telnet doesn't care about email headers, it's not a mail client. When using telnet to get email YOU are the pop3 client in a way. You send the base pop3 commands (list, del, send, top, etc.) and parse the replies yourself.
*I* sent the raw command (via telnet) to send a particular message, the message starts, gets well past the header and partway through the actual message itself then the server just drops the connection. It doesn't matter whether I've read or deleted the previous messages or even messages after. When It was happening if it bombed out on line 44 of the message the first time it'll bomb at the EXACT same point every time.
You are making me suspect something in thier training/culture at mindsring/earthlink creates tunnel vision. It's like calling your isp about some issues with your cable modem constantly being throttled by them to 14.4k and them insisting it's something wrong with the adsl filters on the phone jack and thus the phone comapanies fault, no matter what you tell them about having a cable connection.
Again I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight, but you are doing a beautifull job demonstrating why I don't deal with thier tech support people unless I have to and usually ask for a higher level tech when I do.
Mycroft
Mostly I agree, however I would like to point out that not all the components for a funtional finger need to be in the finger itself. Make tight fist while watching the fore-arm on the same arm.
Same could go for some of the electronics related to sensor amplification and such.
Though I do agree we are still a good ways from human equalivance in artificial muscles and skin sensors.
Mcyroft
Actually I think there might be a way to handle so many sensors.
for every few hundred or so have a very simple processor that just looks for sensors that need attention (nearing temp/pressure boundries, changing enough to warrent attention, ect.) then when something happens it sends a simple message upstream to a more important processor (HEY sensor #252 is getting hot fast!) that processor then converts the info from it's subs into more general info for the main system and passes it on (LEFT HAND MELTING!). Of course the higher processors should be able to set alert criterion for lower processors and even query for specifics, but outside of the main system focusing it's attention it mostly just processes simple all o.k. messages from a small handfull of surface sensor agregators.
I know I'm rarely aware of more than a general sense of to what degree I'm comfortable unless I specifically focus such as when testing the water temp in the shower or when accidently stub a toe.
Mycroft
Out of curiousity, what is your 105" screen?
Mycroft
I got a serious case of deje-vu reading your reply, it was a lot like that tech support call.
I say email and EVEN though I made it clear (to any with any clue what pop3 and telnet are) the problem was the server you still said it was OE related, it WASN'T.
I'm not trying to flame, but I SAID I used telneted in and used straight pop3 commands and it would bork partway through a bad message. It was the mail SERVER borking and borking mid-stream.
Again I'm not trying to flame, please try reading through what I said and I hope you can see why your reply that it was a standard problem with OE made as little sense as thier tech people saying so.
FWIW Mindspring is still a valid domain, though it re-directs to earthlink. And I know people who still have a mindspring email address.
Mycroft
I used *55 once on my phone and got the Highway Patroll right away. It was a car on fire( 3ft/1m flames from the hood!). I asked the other guys looking on if they'd called and they said they assumed the owner had.
Mycroft