Computer security is fundamentally incompatible with computer illiterates
That's true. Bill Gates bares the sole responsibilty for conciously overlooking this, with only one thing in mind - money. And users on all those forums are right - computer should obey what they want it to do. They'd have to run well designed OS though, so they can't compromise their own security.
But please stop using Linux and Linux users as an offtopic excuse whenever you feel frustrated because MS raped all windows users once more. Which is every fucking time they release new software product.
I work at IT training company. Our curriculum is designed for people who know nothing about computers but after a year or so, all get the jobs in IT. Training is self-paced, hands-on, with instructors available on site to help with queries. Guess what? All student machines run Fedora 5. Multimedia works, there is no spyware/viruses, machines are not crashing and everybody is happy. Students learn computing basics on Linux. Word processing on Linux. Using email software on Linux. Once they are at the level to proceed with 'real' stuff (programming, web design/administration, database administration, etc) they either get WIndows VM or keep working on Fedora, depending on what exactly they study. Obviously they can't do VB.Net on Linux and we prefer to teach them basics of the web server on Linux/apache.
In over 6 years I haven't seen a single student who complained about Linux being hard to use. Yes, we started on RH 6.2 desktop, dual booting with Win98.
Privatelly, I have installed Linux on all the PCs and laptops for my wife and kids. Ditto on about dozen friends' PCs. Most of them not quit technology inclined. They do everything that common Windows users do. They never ring with support-type questions. Only when they want to buy new PC or try new distro release.
And to answer the original question - anything is hard sell if you have to do it in 5 minutes. If you do, it usually sucks.
The best we (people willing to advocate Linux) can do is to put a little effort and time into it. Don't tell lies. qCAD is not AutoCAD. OpenOffice is good but different from MS Office. Serious gaming is out of question. But, machine will stay clean of viruses and other crap forever without the need to run special software. Help them chose right hardware. Install and configure multimedia / flash / java. Show them cool stuff you do with your Linux machine. Don't press them but politely suggest that you are too busy to deal with the problems on their PC, should they chose windows instead.
It may surprise some but more than handful of times people finally decided to scrap Windows and try Linux after I explained what Linux actually is and the idea of Free software (which is what people use and see every day).
Let me know once you've finished testing and I'll send you my address. There will be a suggested option to return the thing if you wish. Ignore the address in that suggestion and use mine instead.
What on earth your servers have to do with desktop distro that will be supported for 13 months? RH Enterprise has 7 years lifespan if you want good, supported server.
Every time the story with Red Hat logo is posted, number of clueless comments increases exponentially. Listen up:
Red Hat is listed corporation. As such, they have to make money to their shareholders and they seem to be doing well, so far.
Huge amount of its workforce time, expertise, money and infrastructure is contribution that RH provides to Fedora Project, free OS of high quality. Everybody is free to join and contribute in many different ways, regardless of technical ability. Although decision making process within the Project was in RH hands, this is changing drastically and Fedora is close to becoming true community effort.
Red Hat made great deal of contribution to wider FLOSS community over time by releasing code, hosting projects, open-sourcing acquired proprietary code, etc.
Fedora Core IS NOT RHEL beta. It makes sense for RH to base its enterprise product on the code tested by wide user base, familiar with RH way of doing Linux.
Fedora Legacy was never RH project. Sure, RH people work on it but that is on their own time. Interest for it vanished. It does not make sense anymore. End of story.
Red Hat is not out there to screw anybody - not you, either. That's what Microsoft and their puppets are for.
If you don't believe this, do join one of the Fedora / RH mailing lists and you'll quickly find out that Red Hat employees are the harshest critics of their own work. Plenty of smart people on those lists, you may even learn something.
Re:"Support" model seems to be a misnomer
on
Red Hat Sales Surge
·
· Score: 1
I can't see RMS denouncing Red Hat, for a couple of different reasons. The first is that despite Stallman considering corporations evil...
You clearly do not understand Richard Stallman at all.
+1 over here, unrelated to IBM. It really is very good product. With DAG rpm repo, it makes beautiful option for mass market, too. I have no idea how nobody (big PC sellers I mean) came up with that one yet.
That's not the problem caused by Linux desktop. Hardware manufacturers are not providing drivers for sometimes pretty weird hardware. Supported hardware works like a charm and easines improves with every new release, regerdless of Linux distro in question.
The argument that a computer is usable without an OS is completely retarded
I'd say that's pretty arguable - depends on who boots the thing up.
Point that you missed is that people should not be forced to by PC with any OS preinstalled if they chose so for whatever reason. I want to buy PC - SINGLE PRODUCT and I don't want anybody to force SECOND PRODUCT upon me if I don't want it. That IS THE LAW in France - if HP wants to run business there, they must do it in accordance with French laws.
Well, if code writers of major pieces of distro-included software release future versions under GPL3, Novell is screwed either way (as they should be for being Balmer's whore). In that case, they'll either have to get out of MS agreement if they want to use new versions, or start forking GPL2 released code, for which they don't have enough money or expertise.
I'm glad this happened. Is this enough to stop bitching whenever Stallman does something new? He's right, again. He's got brains and sure knows how to use it. Linus, are you following this? Accept GPL3, release kernel under it and everything will be sweet. Only bastards like Novell will end fucked-up.
Slashdot Mirror
Computer security is fundamentally incompatible with computer illiterates
That's true. Bill Gates bares the sole responsibilty for conciously overlooking this, with only one thing in mind - money.
And users on all those forums are right - computer should obey what they want it to do. They'd have to run well designed OS though, so they can't compromise their own security.
Let me know if you need me to post the url for DEVELOPERS,DEVELOPERS,DEVELOPERS,..... video
Actually, I've got better things to do today - three windows servers will be no more, replaced by Red Hat boxes. Every little win counts.
BTW, talking about deranged personalities, how do you call someone who enjoys using MS crap?
Whatever.
But please stop using Linux and Linux users as an offtopic excuse whenever you feel frustrated because MS raped all windows users once more. Which is every fucking time they release new software product.
Has there ever been a more stupid post on slashdot?
That's bullshit.
.Net on Linux and we prefer to teach them basics of the web server on Linux/apache.
I work at IT training company. Our curriculum is designed for people who know nothing about computers but after a year or so, all get the jobs in IT. Training is self-paced, hands-on, with instructors available on site to help with queries. Guess what? All student machines run Fedora 5. Multimedia works, there is no spyware/viruses, machines are not crashing and everybody is happy. Students learn computing basics on Linux. Word processing on Linux. Using email software on Linux. Once they are at the level to proceed with 'real' stuff (programming, web design/administration, database administration, etc) they either get WIndows VM or keep working on Fedora, depending on what exactly they study. Obviously they can't do VB
In over 6 years I haven't seen a single student who complained about Linux being hard to use. Yes, we started on RH 6.2 desktop, dual booting with Win98.
Privatelly, I have installed Linux on all the PCs and laptops for my wife and kids. Ditto on about dozen friends' PCs. Most of them not quit technology inclined. They do everything that common Windows users do. They never ring with support-type questions. Only when they want to buy new PC or try new distro release.
And to answer the original question - anything is hard sell if you have to do it in 5 minutes. If you do, it usually sucks.
The best we (people willing to advocate Linux) can do is to put a little effort and time into it. Don't tell lies. qCAD is not AutoCAD. OpenOffice is good but different from MS Office. Serious gaming is out of question. But, machine will stay clean of viruses and other crap forever without the need to run special software. Help them chose right hardware. Install and configure multimedia / flash / java. Show them cool stuff you do with your Linux machine. Don't press them but politely suggest that you are too busy to deal with the problems on their PC, should they chose windows instead.
It may surprise some but more than handful of times people finally decided to scrap Windows and try Linux after I explained what Linux actually is and the idea of Free software (which is what people use and see every day).
There, for what it's worth.
That's likely. It could also be the major cause of Dell losing No 1 position in PC market.
Mee too
Whoever moded this as troll is either PHB and was upset or long-time telecomuter who hasn't seen PHB in a while.
Let me know once you've finished testing and I'll send you my address. There will be a suggested option to return the thing if you wish. Ignore the address in that suggestion and use mine instead.
Interesting question! Second part of it ('why do we care?') sounds like you had a hunch that CRM has to do something with customers :o)
What on earth your servers have to do with desktop distro that will be supported for 13 months? RH Enterprise has 7 years lifespan if you want good, supported server.
After all, you are proof that people posting from basements is not an urban legend.
Oh, for a second I thought outsourcing is covered by another algorithm.
Red Hat is listed corporation. As such, they have to make money to their shareholders and they seem to be doing well, so far.
Huge amount of its workforce time, expertise, money and infrastructure is contribution that RH provides to Fedora Project, free OS of high quality. Everybody is free to join and contribute in many different ways, regardless of technical ability. Although decision making process within the Project was in RH hands, this is changing drastically and Fedora is close to becoming true community effort.
Red Hat made great deal of contribution to wider FLOSS community over time by releasing code, hosting projects, open-sourcing acquired proprietary code, etc.
Fedora Core IS NOT RHEL beta. It makes sense for RH to base its enterprise product on the code tested by wide user base, familiar with RH way of doing Linux.
Fedora Legacy was never RH project. Sure, RH people work on it but that is on their own time. Interest for it vanished. It does not make sense anymore. End of story.
Red Hat is not out there to screw anybody - not you, either. That's what Microsoft and their puppets are for.
If you don't believe this, do join one of the Fedora / RH mailing lists and you'll quickly find out that Red Hat employees are the harshest critics of their own work. Plenty of smart people on those lists, you may even learn something.
I can't see RMS denouncing Red Hat, for a couple of different reasons. The first is that despite Stallman considering corporations evil...
You clearly do not understand Richard Stallman at all.
+1 over here, unrelated to IBM. It really is very good product. With DAG rpm repo, it makes beautiful option for mass market, too. I have no idea how nobody (big PC sellers I mean) came up with that one yet.
That's not the problem caused by Linux desktop. Hardware manufacturers are not providing drivers for sometimes pretty weird hardware. Supported hardware works like a charm and easines improves with every new release, regerdless of Linux distro in question.
[ot]
because it appears since you're subscriber
The argument that a computer is usable without an OS is completely retarded
I'd say that's pretty arguable - depends on who boots the thing up.
Point that you missed is that people should not be forced to by PC with any OS preinstalled if they chose so for whatever reason. I want to buy PC - SINGLE PRODUCT and I don't want anybody to force SECOND PRODUCT upon me if I don't want it. That IS THE LAW in France - if HP wants to run business there, they must do it in accordance with French laws.
BTW, how do you explain your sig - isn't that form of insult for lot of us?
I wouldn't consider it 'changed'. It's just screwed.
I'm just waiting for that single instance of microsoft FUD that will backfire really hard. Keep FUDing, Ballmer. Please.
You guessed right. The way you make billions must count for something, too.
I'm glad this happened. Is this enough to stop bitching whenever Stallman does something new? He's right, again. He's got brains and sure knows how to use it. Linus, are you following this? Accept GPL3, release kernel under it and everything will be sweet. Only bastards like Novell will end fucked-up.