However, i've used three (or four, depending on how you count it) x86 distributions with Window Maker -- Red Hat 7-ish, MDK 9, MDK 9.1 (which was actually considerably faster than 9 for me), and SuSE 9 -- and none of them were ever as snappy as Windows (XP, 2000, or otherwise). I've never understood what Linux people are talking about when they say that Linux 'runs faster' than Windows. I've never experienced that in my life, and i consider myself to be pretty computer literate (enough to know if i've got some crazy circumstance going on that makes that the case, anyway).
That's my problem with all of the large distros (RedHat/Mandrake/SuSE). They seem to run like pigs, and even if you trim it down to, say Window Maker (my personal fav), it still doesn't run as fast as Slackware w/ WindowMaker or (especially) gentoo w/ WindowMaker.
For example, right now I am typing on an old dual Pentium II 350 machine running Gentoo (w/ kernel 2.6) and running WindowMaker. When I type startx at the command prompt, WindowMaker, xclock, and 2 xterm windows are all loaded in about 5 seconds:P heh. And every app I run comes up quickly, with one exception...
"Joking aside, the number of patches and tools that you can put on a USB Drive(256 MB, last I heard) is always being dwarfed by bigger and bigger installs of software."
While this PNY USB Key drive I have may only be 256MB in capacity, I had the option of buying the 512MB version. Now, although I haven't seen these (yet) PNY claims on their website to have a 1GB and 2GB versions of the USB Key drive (though I bet the last two are quite expensive).
I'd also like to point out that (unlike certain SONY USB key drives) these PNY USB 1.1/2.0 Key drives work under linux perfectly (if inserted while running a knoppix CD, an Icon will appear on the desktop and the keydrive is mounted automatically). On my slackware box, I just mount it as/dev/sda1. Just a little FYI:)
"Yes, but people WON'T KNOW HOW TO INSTALL THE SERVICE PACK, or
if they're on dial-up, WON'T WANT TO!"
You've just listed the number one problem I have with getting people to update. A lot of users are still on dial-up, and if they have ever bothered going to Windows Update once, they never do again once they realize the time it takes to download all the updates. Users are really LAZY
... but this isn't new... RedHat's been doing backports for a long time. IIRC, they backported features from 2.4 into 2.2. Not that I necessarily like that idea. I haven't used RedHat for several years now. I prefer to use slackware and gentoo these days.
One of my favorite older motherboards was Abit's KT7A-RAID: no sound, no network, no video, just a bunch of PCI slots, AGP, and even an ISA slot. Their thought was that they were selling to people that wanted control. Ended up being one of the best boards I've ever owned.
Yeah, I have an Abit TH7-RAID (P4 socket 423), which has nothing integrated, save an audio controller, which is easily disabled. (A Good Thing!). It has been a top notch motherboard from day one. I love it. My only complaint at the time of buying it was the price of Rambus, but lucked into a deal where I got ECC Rambus for the price of regular. It's my server, so ECC was attractive.
Yeah, mass blocking isn't a great thing... I have lifted the block on *.t-dialin.net since the logs are showing less hits from your ISP lately. If you're still interested: telnet://bitbucket.homedns.org
Guess what? There are a great many BBSes accessible via telnet these days. So, they are not quite gone. Matter of fact, I run a BBS using Synchronet software for windows. Synchronet is an actively developed, and now open-sourced BBS package (see this page for more info).
Synchronet was orginally a DOS BBS app, but was ported to Win32, and recently *nix (it will compile on *BSD and most Linux distros, and work is in progress to port it to big endian architectures). In addition to telnet access to the BBS, Synchronet has a built in FTP service for file area access in addition to using the old Zmodem transfer way, and also included in Synchronet are NNTP (for accessing message areas) as well as finger (for inter-bbs instant messaging), and soon a web interface (built in web server).
Some of the old door game authors are resurrecting their old projects and actively developing their doors again. LORD (Legend of the Red Dragon) is once again under development. I am running the latest beta, v4.07. I am running Legend of the Red Dragon, Barren Realms Elite, The Arcadian Legends, Falcon's Eye, Falcon's Honor, Ambroshia (a brand new door game written in the internet era), several of the Sunrise doors, The Clans, DoorMUD, Sim-BBS, and the Virtual Sysop 3 (ported from TBBS systems).
... and I should know, for I run a modern day BBS (see.sig below). Have a look at this BBS software suite and you will see that the world does indeed have a great open source BBS suite that runs on both Windows and *nix. Telnet has done away with dialing in, and also does away with long distance charges. If you look at this page, you will see that there are quite a few Synchronet systems in existence with new systems coming online and connecting into DOVE-Net almost weekly. (DOVE-Net is the QWK message network that is supported and run by the author of Synchronet). Also, thanks to telnet doing away with long distance charges, we have many large inter-bbs message and game networks today. (Of course, good old FidoNet is still around, too, with most nodes interchanging mail via telnet these days).
I, too, got tired of all the "newb-tools" getting in the way on distros like Red Hat, Mandrake... (Never used SUSE though).
I was a big Slackware user after getting started with the easier distros like above. Now, however, I have seen the light -- and the savior's name is Gentoo Linux. I now have two seperate machines running Gentoo compiled from stage one installs:)
IS does not come turned on, and at least in XP pro it is not part of the default install.
No, IIS has never been default on the non-server versions of Windows. However, prior to Windows Server 2003 (i.e. Windows 2000 Server, et. al.) IIS was installed by default. That is what the parent was refering to.
Though we're talking about Linux distros, I would like to mention that FreeBSD is available on DVD in addition to the regular CD set. Here is a link to FreeBSD 5.1 on DVD.
1) It takes money to develop open source software. Even if it is not money from licensing, the money does come from somewhere. Most open source developers are developing on the dime of their companies. There is a cost to doing this.
Anyone in IT with a clue knows that OSS is only free in source code form and that you will be paying for a distro where that code has been compiled and assembled into a working, ready-to-install OS. That's why it should always be called "Open Source" instead of "Free Software" so that people can make the distinction.
2) Open source is genuinely not as polished as a commercial product, and products that do add that polish tend to drive up the cost of open source stuff. For example, Oracle on Linux is still more expensive than SQL Server on Windows Server, by about 5k per server.
Yes, the more polished the application, the more time that was required in development to get to that point. It only makes sense. What I don't get is why you're comparing Oracle on Linux to SQL Server on Windows... how about apples to apples comparing Oracle on Linux to Oracle on Windows. Is Oracle on Linux more expensive than Oracle on Windows? If so, then you have an argument. (And I don't know if the Linux version of Oracle is more or less than the Windows version -- I've never looked it up.)
3) Open source has yet to produce developmental tools as effective as.NET. Java is close and good in some ways, but that's a commercial product too. NO open source language initiative, with the possible exception of Perl 5, has the vision or the reach of.NET framework and the CLR.
4) The Language Wars are on again, and C# is the opening salvo. I hate to admit it, because I really do love C++, but the latest specs for the next major version of C# are absolutely wonderful. C# developers are getting really good generics to go with a surprisingly well thought out framework.
I cannot comment on C#, I've never used it. However, K Develope is a decent IDE... I was taught C++ on Visual C++ and K Develop was cool in that I had it set to use the "child frame" option where it looked very much like Visual C++. I got used to K Develop easily. It's not quite as polished as Visual C++, but there were many things I DIDN'T like about Visual C++.
It's a tall, tall order for open source to match MS in the IDE development. When it was just an editor that was one thing, but an editor that now knows about your class hierarchy as you key it in, real two way tools ala Delphi (by the guy that invented Delphi), and MS is putting together one remarkably coherent and solid offering in.NET.
Heh, I never had the luxury of an IDE or even a debugger when I learned JAVA at school. We (the students) logged in to the solaris server over telnet in the computer labs and used pico to type out our source and compile it at the command line... from there we had to debug it manually from the errors spit out by the compiler:P
If the weight of the language wars continues to favor MS, then Linux application development will become more costly than the equivalent of MS, source code, or no source code.
I'd personally rather take quality over quantity, but upper management doesn't always see it that way. If the OSS code cost more but was better quality (and most importantly... followed standards) then I'd rather have that OSS code than any closed source code with proprietary standards.
On a lighter note, back in the windows 3.1/Lantastic days, I used to mess around with a program called "The Draw" (i ran a bbs, figure it out or google it) which could turn an ANSI screen into a.COM file
I'm still using "TheDraw":) I run one of the many Synchronet BBSes that are beginning to make a comeback.
Slashdot Mirror
That's my problem with all of the large distros (RedHat/Mandrake/SuSE). They seem to run like pigs, and even if you trim it down to, say Window Maker (my personal fav), it still doesn't run as fast as Slackware w/ WindowMaker or (especially) gentoo w/ WindowMaker.
For example, right now I am typing on an old dual Pentium II 350 machine running Gentoo (w/ kernel 2.6) and running WindowMaker. When I type startx at the command prompt, WindowMaker, xclock, and 2 xterm windows are all loaded in about 5 seconds :P heh. And every app I run comes up quickly, with one exception...
While this PNY USB Key drive I have may only be 256MB in capacity, I had the option of buying the 512MB version. Now, although I haven't seen these (yet) PNY claims on their website to have a 1GB and 2GB versions of the USB Key drive (though I bet the last two are quite expensive).
I'd also like to point out that (unlike certain SONY USB key drives) these PNY USB 1.1/2.0 Key drives work under linux perfectly (if inserted while running a knoppix CD, an Icon will appear on the desktop and the keydrive is mounted automatically). On my slackware box, I just mount it as /dev/sda1. Just a little FYI :)
You've just listed the number one problem I have with getting people to update. A lot of users are still on dial-up, and if they have ever bothered going to Windows Update once, they never do again once they realize the time it takes to download all the updates. Users are really LAZY
Huh? I've unmerged quite a bit of packages and not seen any ill effects. Would you like to give an example of what you are talking about?
Hmm... maybe I should put a wifi card in my BBS.... :)
Upon clicking the link I get: "The Wayback Machine is temporarily unavailable" ... fuck me running we've slashdotted the wayback machine! w00t!
... but this isn't new... RedHat's been doing backports for a long time. IIRC, they backported features from 2.4 into 2.2. Not that I necessarily like that idea. I haven't used RedHat for several years now. I prefer to use slackware and gentoo these days.
Yeah, mass blocking isn't a great thing... I have lifted the block on *.t-dialin.net since the logs are showing less hits from your ISP lately. If you're still interested: telnet://bitbucket.homedns.org
Where are you coming from? I had a lot of "hack attempts" (though unsuccessful :) and I went on an IP banning spree. :/
Guess what? There are a great many BBSes accessible via telnet these days. So, they are not quite gone. Matter of fact, I run a BBS using Synchronet software for windows. Synchronet is an actively developed, and now open-sourced BBS package (see this page for more info).
Synchronet was orginally a DOS BBS app, but was ported to Win32, and recently *nix (it will compile on *BSD and most Linux distros, and work is in progress to port it to big endian architectures). In addition to telnet access to the BBS, Synchronet has a built in FTP service for file area access in addition to using the old Zmodem transfer way, and also included in Synchronet are NNTP (for accessing message areas) as well as finger (for inter-bbs instant messaging), and soon a web interface (built in web server).
Some of the old door game authors are resurrecting their old projects and actively developing their doors again. LORD (Legend of the Red Dragon) is once again under development. I am running the latest beta, v4.07. I am running Legend of the Red Dragon, Barren Realms Elite, The Arcadian Legends, Falcon's Eye, Falcon's Honor, Ambroshia (a brand new door game written in the internet era), several of the Sunrise doors, The Clans, DoorMUD, Sim-BBS, and the Virtual Sysop 3 (ported from TBBS systems).
... and I should know, for I run a modern day BBS (see .sig below). Have a look at this BBS software suite and you will see that the world does indeed have a great open source BBS suite that runs on both Windows and *nix. Telnet has done away with dialing in, and also does away with long distance charges. If you look at this page , you will see that there are quite a few Synchronet systems in existence with new systems coming online and connecting into DOVE-Net almost weekly. (DOVE-Net is the QWK message network that is supported and run by the author of Synchronet). Also, thanks to telnet doing away with long distance charges, we have many large inter-bbs message and game networks today. (Of course, good old FidoNet is still around, too, with most nodes interchanging mail via telnet these days).
... reminds me a lot of Mac OS X where apps come in a "folder package".
I, too, got tired of all the "newb-tools" getting in the way on distros like Red Hat, Mandrake... (Never used SUSE though).
I was a big Slackware user after getting started with the easier distros like above. Now, however, I have seen the light -- and the savior's name is Gentoo Linux. I now have two seperate machines running Gentoo compiled from stage one installs :)
Long Live Gentoo!
No, IIS has never been default on the non-server versions of Windows. However, prior to Windows Server 2003 (i.e. Windows 2000 Server, et. al.) IIS was installed by default. That is what the parent was refering to.
Offtopic? Personally I found that to be funny, and would have moderated as such if I'd had mod points...
Ah, just one more reason for me to keep using KDE!
KDE user since 1997 and proud of it! ;)
- Pinching one off
- Taking a smash
- Dropping the kiddies off at the pool
HehThough we're talking about Linux distros, I would like to mention that FreeBSD is available on DVD in addition to the regular CD set. Here is a link to FreeBSD 5.1 on DVD.
Anyone in IT with a clue knows that OSS is only free in source code form and that you will be paying for a distro where that code has been compiled and assembled into a working, ready-to-install OS. That's why it should always be called "Open Source" instead of "Free Software" so that people can make the distinction.
Yes, the more polished the application, the more time that was required in development to get to that point. It only makes sense. What I don't get is why you're comparing Oracle on Linux to SQL Server on Windows... how about apples to apples comparing Oracle on Linux to Oracle on Windows. Is Oracle on Linux more expensive than Oracle on Windows? If so, then you have an argument. (And I don't know if the Linux version of Oracle is more or less than the Windows version -- I've never looked it up.)
I cannot comment on C#, I've never used it. However, K Develope is a decent IDE... I was taught C++ on Visual C++ and K Develop was cool in that I had it set to use the "child frame" option where it looked very much like Visual C++. I got used to K Develop easily. It's not quite as polished as Visual C++, but there were many things I DIDN'T like about Visual C++.
Heh, I never had the luxury of an IDE or even a debugger when I learned JAVA at school. We (the students) logged in to the solaris server over telnet in the computer labs and used pico to type out our source and compile it at the command line... from there we had to debug it manually from the errors spit out by the compiler :P
I'd personally rather take quality over quantity, but upper management doesn't always see it that way. If the OSS code cost more but was better quality (and most importantly... followed standards) then I'd rather have that OSS code than any closed source code with proprietary standards.
While it is true that humans make mistakes and therefore anything we create cannot be perfect... OpenBSD comes pretty damn close. :)
I'm still using "TheDraw" :) I run one of the many Synchronet BBSes that are beginning to make a comeback.
I agree. I don't have BSODs nearly as much as I did with Win95 & 98. Not to say they don't exist, though.
Well, I'm hoping your prediction doesn't come true... I, too, would like to see KDE or Gnome come up with something new and cool.