X11 is for desktops, not for embedded systems. We talk here about X11. Why do you ant to change the subject?
Anyway, think about GPM, tty mouse in Linux. Based on your logic X11 should not handle mouse because we need GPM. My point is that we need both GPM in TTY and mice input devices in X11. In a same way we need sound output in X11 and plain audio device/dev/sound for console.
There is input and output in X that connects humans and applications. Input and output devices can be different and also they can work in parallel. For example, there is a keyboard for typing (could be more than one) and a mouse for cursor navigation (could be more than one, like a trackball + a pen). There is output, today it's a graphics display.
Adding a sound to the same input-output infrastructure keep applications transparent. For example, a voice recognition can copete with a keyboard, while a speech can compete with a text output. More easier case is a media player, in which it's easier to syncronize video and audio streams when they handled outside of the application by closely integrated infrastucture peices.
Adding a completely standalone sound server makes such infrastructure more complex. I would even say - more bloated. Every application should know about both kinds of infrastructure. Even worse - the application should somehow make sure that video and audio streams will be syncronized - that's a real problem today already, when CPU-quanting can delay sound from video or vice versa.
you don't need any arms - new generation of mice must be optical in a real sense of it. It must read the movement and tension (distance focus) of your eyes. Of course, blink == click:)
I see, you're simply anti-unix. You think there should be one monolitic application that has everything integrated to it.
RTFA - they integrated X and MAS, not merged the code. Unix *is* integration of protocol layers, listeners and daemons, and applications. The integration of MAS with Xouvert is done in completely Unix way.
When GNOME is everything - that *is* monolitic.
In case you haven't noticed, XFree86 does not, nor has it ever, come with sound-drivers, or sound apps, so I have no idea why you think it's the responsibility of X to handle sound as well.
RTFA, Xfree doesn't, MAS does. it's responsibility of MAS to handle sound and it's great that X and MAS are integrated now to handle both graphics and sound in a same network-transparent way.
If X is handling sound, how do I play sounds when X isn't running?
What *graphics* do you see when X isn't running? That's right. TTY is for system management tasks, not for entertainment. When you want to entertain - you run your desktop. When you are not local - you run it remotely. And now it will have sound.
So you are happy when you ssh-connect cross a network and run xmms in abosulte silence? I am not happy with that. That's why I applaud arival of sound to networked X windows.
I think esd and arts will collapse to sound event dispatchers for legacy applications (those, which do not speak MAS API).
Do we really need ANOTHER soundserver in addition to esd and arts?
We haven't needed esd and arts from the first place if sound would be handled by X since the beginning.
Because that's what X is supposed to do - to isolate window managers, desktop managers and just applications from any knowledge about hardware. Gnome or KDE should just fire the sound event, not actually handle it.
I hope that at some point Gnome and KDE developers will drop their "proprietary" sound servers and just send sound events in a same way as they now do with graphics events. THEN perhaps Gnome and KDE will have more available human resources to *focus* on improving the usability and configurability of their applications.
Xouvert includes MAS giving the X server its very own sound server. Nice.:)
Just nice? It's excelent! This is the biggest X Windowing achievement since first actual implementation of X Windows.
It is in human nature to assotiate visual and audio information in the process of percepting it. Therefore video without audio mean seriously broken usability. That's why I think all these years X Windows has been developed in essentially wrong direction. The made in recent XFree86 versions transparency, which is really just a candy, while so important prime functionality was missed all the time.
I am really happy that MAS in Xouvert now. I am going to switch to Xouvert as soon as possible. Good-bye, XFree86 - thank you for keeping me in the void silence all these years.
I'll say it again: Java's worst enemy is not Microsoft, it's Sun!
Correction:
I'll say it again: Sun's worst enemy is not Microsoft, it's Java!
The best product Sun has made was SPARC. The only profitable source of revenue they had was also SPARC. Java is an ugly language (may it's an elegant one comparing to C, C++ or Perl, but not to Lisp, OCAML, Erlang or ML. Or even to Python). And it's a blackhole sucking all money from Sun.
I am a Java Developer who has never had any problems with Java on my desktop or servers (Windows or Sun).
Then you are a Java Developer right at the begining of your career I guess:)
Seriously, I agree that JVM cannot crash the whole system (like kernel). But if it's running a desktop - then all chances that your desktop will crash all the time. Few Java applets in Gnome panel should work fine though. But not as a desktop or window manager!
Going back to the computer industry, and the only way we (as programmers/engineers) can compete is by moving up a level and trying to automate as much of the design process as possible, using techniques such as expert systems, code generators, intelligent compilers etc...
The problem is that most of US programmers are historically lazy.
Ask Java programmers in US to learn Erlang or Lisp - they will demand you send them to the courses. Forget asking them to learn Haskell or OCAML - they will think they need back to University to complete overslept math classes (and basically they are right in it).
Now ask Russian Java programmers to learn one of those languages. The answer will be either "I love to learn such interesting languages! May I have two or three weeks for that? I can do it after work, don't worry." or even "I already know it. When can I start a project with it?". Also, it's most likely that they still remember math good enough for writing intelligent software.
Well, maybe the example with Russian programmers is extreme and in India they stick to primitive languages like Java as much as in US. But you've got a point.
Before that there was the RGD team headed by Tsiolkovky with sucessful flights in 1930x. Later, right after WW2, Soviets used the chance to kidnap some German scientists, but I heard the rumor (inside Soviet space research secret labs) that those German scientists did not really helped by remaking V-2 blueprints. If Germans would not have been kidnapped, then Soviets would just have to sponsor further reseach and development of the original RGD seria.
Whatever language, but i must be a functional programming language. That way you are protected not onoly from buffer overflow situation (such protection is provided by virtually any good garbage collector), but from many other bugs, by giving you ability to verify your code even before you parse and compile it.
By the way, if Haskell, the purest functional programming language is on its way to aquire many practical real-life libraries, OCAML has already passed most of that way and already used in may practical cases for network programming.
But I would advise Erlang - that way your kernel will be distributed, fault-tollerant and load-balanced by default. No need to mention it will be free from many C-typical bugs. And Erlang is already used for real-life high-perfeomance-required system applications in many telecommunication companies.
Last time I checked, federal judges are appointed for life.
Looks like royal british rules. Is it that difficult to get rid of the rest of middle-age heritage? It's funny to hear the teaching of correct way of democracy from the country with such non-democratic rules.
America is no different from Saudi Arabia on this prospective. Religious Cristian fanatics in goverment and schools with completely closed mind and absolutely intollerant to other cultural values.
In Europe their scool rules don't let teachers to propogate any religious ideas. Why Americans afraid to say good-bye to christian monopoly in American schools?
or Linux users the ability to click on a URL in an e-mail and have it actually launch in your default web browser (how novel).
For Linux users it's really novel comparing to what Windows users got:
Windows users can copy and paste images (including screen shots) from the Windows clipboard into HTML mail compose.
And it's just in December 2003! Wow! It took even less than a decade after Microsoft made it possible to their users! And it's only for Thunderbird on Windows platform, where, again, it's been already for almost a decade. As for Linux users, their clipboard images are planned for next century. That will be a real usability revolution for them.
That's the problem with Internet - it's controlled by organizations (not evel on their own) which are controlled by the US govermentent (already evel by itself), which is controlled by US corporations (the ultimate form of evel).
At least it's true for.net and.com TLDs. I wonder if LinuxGazatte can move the name to the.info TLD.
By the way, in the worst case scenario, it might move to some small country national TLD. Will it be safe and protected from US basturds?
cdrecord is not good for even CD recording: all audio CDs it burns (I've checked all the length of 'man cdrecord') are playable on all other PCs, but not on hi-end DVD/CD players (again, I've tried all compatibiity advises from 'man cdrecord'). My friends with Windows do not have such problems on exactly the same hardware. I think it's cdrecord that is broken.
According to Sun Macrosystems, it was supposed to be powered by Java, not Linux. Is it one more demonstration of Java market failure? To me, it's at least a reminder to those PHBs for whom "Java" name per se is the value worth to buy.
I like this collection of misleading quotes from Microsoft, from Bill Gates and about Microsoft.
My favorite ones:
"The Internet? We are not interested in it" -- Bill Gates, 1993
"Sometimes we do get taken by surprise. For example, when the Internet came along, we had it as a fifth or sixth priority." -- Bill Gates, Jul, 1998
"We had planned to integrate a Web browser with our operating system as far back as 1993" -- Microsoft (27 Jul 1998, filing its first court responses to federal antitrust)
On code stability, from Focus Magazine: "Microsoft programs are generally bug-free. If you visit the Microsoft hotline, you'll literally have to wait weeks if not months until someone calls in with a bug in one of our programs. 99.99% of calls turn out to be user mistakes. [...] I know not a single less irrelevant reason for an update than bugfixes. The reasons for updates are to present more new features.
Bill Gates, Free Market and the LA Times: "There are people who don't like capitalism, and people who don't like PCs. But there's no-one who likes the PC who doesn't like Microsoft"
Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning. --Bill Gates, Business @ The Speed of Thought
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates
I don't think there's anything unique about human intellience. All the neurons in the brain that make up perceptions and emotions operate in a binary fashion. (Bill Gates)
"There won't be anything we won't say to people to try and convince
them that our way is the way to go."
"We have no intention of shipping another bloated OS and shoving it down the throats of our users." -- Paul Maritz, Microsoft group vice president
On the solid code base of Win9X: "If you can't make it good, at least make it look good."
"Microsoft's biggest and most dangerous contribution to the software industry may be the degree to which it has lowered user expectations." -- Esther Schindler, OS/2 Magazine
As a Californian, I'm glad we won't have them here. Let them experiment on the ecosystem somewhere else and then, in ten or twenty years, allow them in if there hasven't been any problems.
I cannot believe there are such stupid people in California. If the glowing fish is banned for sale in California *and* it's not in Nevada *and* it's sold in Nevada *and* someone brought it California when moved... So no what? Will you run as hell from California to some more safe place?
Don't like Nevada in the example above? Want to separate California from the rest of USA and restrict the border and custom control? Consider the glowing fish flying by from Mexica. So, no what? Nuke the ocean?
All Californians, repeat after me: There is only one ecosystem - the ecosystem of Earth.
By the way, personall I don't see any problems with genetically modified plants and animals.
First, the natural evolution itself is a process of a genetical modification. Some modifications are small, while some are very drammtical. We, humans, are a product of one of the biggest genetical modifications all over the world history. First mammal with aked skin, first animal with such brain power - should I continue here?
Second, we, humans killed evolution of many species, including our own kind. Industrial genetical modification can somehow compensate it.
Third, we, humans, are a part of this nature. Therefore, whatever we produce is a part of this nature too. If we genetically modify something - it's natural.
Finally, I suspect that 90% of GM opponents are christians. 90% of repressions any churches made in a human history were done by the christian inquisition. I wonder, what's so wrong with christianity that it hates the science so much?
Slashdot Mirror
Anyway, think about GPM, tty mouse in Linux. Based on your logic X11 should not handle mouse because we need GPM. My point is that we need both GPM in TTY and mice input devices in X11. In a same way we need sound output in X11 and plain audio device /dev/sound for console.
Based on your logic, developers do not deserve anything but TTY and vi.
Adding a sound to the same input-output infrastructure keep applications transparent. For example, a voice recognition can copete with a keyboard, while a speech can compete with a text output. More easier case is a media player, in which it's easier to syncronize video and audio streams when they handled outside of the application by closely integrated infrastucture peices.
Adding a completely standalone sound server makes such infrastructure more complex. I would even say - more bloated. Every application should know about both kinds of infrastructure. Even worse - the application should somehow make sure that video and audio streams will be syncronized - that's a real problem today already, when CPU-quanting can delay sound from video or vice versa.
As a buddhist, you have to realize the truth: there is no clods.
across network?
you don't need any arms - new generation of mice must be optical in a real sense of it. It must read the movement and tension (distance focus) of your eyes. Of course, blink == click :)
RTFA - they integrated X and MAS, not merged the code. Unix *is* integration of protocol layers, listeners and daemons, and applications. The integration of MAS with Xouvert is done in completely Unix way.
When GNOME is everything - that *is* monolitic.
In case you haven't noticed, XFree86 does not, nor has it ever, come with sound-drivers, or sound apps, so I have no idea why you think it's the responsibility of X to handle sound as well.
RTFA, Xfree doesn't, MAS does. it's responsibility of MAS to handle sound and it's great that X and MAS are integrated now to handle both graphics and sound in a same network-transparent way.
If X is handling sound, how do I play sounds when X isn't running?
What *graphics* do you see when X isn't running? That's right. TTY is for system management tasks, not for entertainment. When you want to entertain - you run your desktop. When you are not local - you run it remotely. And now it will have sound.
So you are happy when you ssh-connect cross a network and run xmms in abosulte silence? I am not happy with that. That's why I applaud arival of sound to networked X windows.
I think esd and arts will collapse to sound event dispatchers for legacy applications (those, which do not speak MAS API).
We haven't needed esd and arts from the first place if sound would be handled by X since the beginning.
Because that's what X is supposed to do - to isolate window managers, desktop managers and just applications from any knowledge about hardware. Gnome or KDE should just fire the sound event, not actually handle it.
I hope that at some point Gnome and KDE developers will drop their "proprietary" sound servers and just send sound events in a same way as they now do with graphics events. THEN perhaps Gnome and KDE will have more available human resources to *focus* on improving the usability and configurability of their applications.
Just nice? It's excelent! This is the biggest X Windowing achievement since first actual implementation of X Windows.
It is in human nature to assotiate visual and audio information in the process of percepting it. Therefore video without audio mean seriously broken usability. That's why I think all these years X Windows has been developed in essentially wrong direction. The made in recent XFree86 versions transparency, which is really just a candy, while so important prime functionality was missed all the time.
I am really happy that MAS in Xouvert now. I am going to switch to Xouvert as soon as possible. Good-bye, XFree86 - thank you for keeping me in the void silence all these years.
Correction:
I'll say it again: Sun's worst enemy is not Microsoft, it's Java!
The best product Sun has made was SPARC. The only profitable source of revenue they had was also SPARC. Java is an ugly language (may it's an elegant one comparing to C, C++ or Perl, but not to Lisp, OCAML, Erlang or ML. Or even to Python). And it's a blackhole sucking all money from Sun.
Then you are a Java Developer right at the begining of your career I guess :)
Seriously, I agree that JVM cannot crash the whole system (like kernel). But if it's running a desktop - then all chances that your desktop will crash all the time. Few Java applets in Gnome panel should work fine though. But not as a desktop or window manager!
The problem is that most of US programmers are historically lazy.
Ask Java programmers in US to learn Erlang or Lisp - they will demand you send them to the courses. Forget asking them to learn Haskell or OCAML - they will think they need back to University to complete overslept math classes (and basically they are right in it).
Now ask Russian Java programmers to learn one of those languages. The answer will be either "I love to learn such interesting languages! May I have two or three weeks for that? I can do it after work, don't worry." or even "I already know it. When can I start a project with it?". Also, it's most likely that they still remember math good enough for writing intelligent software.
Well, maybe the example with Russian programmers is extreme and in India they stick to primitive languages like Java as much as in US. But you've got a point.
Before that there was the RGD team headed by Tsiolkovky with sucessful flights in 1930x. Later, right after WW2, Soviets used the chance to kidnap some German scientists, but I heard the rumor (inside Soviet space research secret labs) that those German scientists did not really helped by remaking V-2 blueprints. If Germans would not have been kidnapped, then Soviets would just have to sponsor further reseach and development of the original RGD seria.
There are many papers proving such protection. Why Functional Programming Matters by John Hughes.
By the way, if Haskell, the purest functional programming language is on its way to aquire many practical real-life libraries, OCAML has already passed most of that way and already used in may practical cases for network programming.
But I would advise Erlang - that way your kernel will be distributed, fault-tollerant and load-balanced by default. No need to mention it will be free from many C-typical bugs. And Erlang is already used for real-life high-perfeomance-required system applications in many telecommunication companies.
Looks like royal british rules. Is it that difficult to get rid of the rest of middle-age heritage? It's funny to hear the teaching of correct way of democracy from the country with such non-democratic rules.
In Europe their scool rules don't let teachers to propogate any religious ideas. Why Americans afraid to say good-bye to christian monopoly in American schools?
For Linux users it's really novel comparing to what Windows users got:
Windows users can copy and paste images (including screen shots) from the Windows clipboard into HTML mail compose.
And it's just in December 2003! Wow! It took even less than a decade after Microsoft made it possible to their users! And it's only for Thunderbird on Windows platform, where, again, it's been already for almost a decade. As for Linux users, their clipboard images are planned for next century. That will be a real usability revolution for them.
At least it's true for .net and .com TLDs. I wonder if LinuxGazatte can move the name to the .info TLD.
By the way, in the worst case scenario, it might move to some small country national TLD. Will it be safe and protected from US basturds?
cdrecord is not good for even CD recording: all audio CDs it burns (I've checked all the length of 'man cdrecord') are playable on all other PCs, but not on hi-end DVD/CD players (again, I've tried all compatibiity advises from 'man cdrecord'). My friends with Windows do not have such problems on exactly the same hardware. I think it's cdrecord that is broken.
I'll pay you $1K if you can demonstrate how the Linux kernel can panic from Bind or Apache crashing.
You never worked with Linux or Apache or Bind. All names you have gathered randomly. Every sentence in your troll is false, like this:
Not to mention the fact that the Linux kernel itself lacks any support for any type of journaled filesystem, memory protection, SMP support,
You don't know what you are talking about. And it's so obvious that I am sure you won't pass any intervew to any consulting company.
I don't know why you are doing this troll. May I guess that you work for marketing department of Microsoft?
I wonder when my car will be Linux powered :)
My favorite ones:
No need to go there - it will swim eventually itself as no borders in the open deep blue.
I wonder if Arnold will decide to nuke the ocean (or Mexica?) just to make sure no GM in Cali :)
I cannot believe there are such stupid people in California. If the glowing fish is banned for sale in California *and* it's not in Nevada *and* it's sold in Nevada *and* someone brought it California when moved... So no what? Will you run as hell from California to some more safe place?
Don't like Nevada in the example above? Want to separate California from the rest of USA and restrict the border and custom control? Consider the glowing fish flying by from Mexica. So, no what? Nuke the ocean?
All Californians, repeat after me: There is only one ecosystem - the ecosystem of Earth.
By the way, personall I don't see any problems with genetically modified plants and animals.
First, the natural evolution itself is a process of a genetical modification. Some modifications are small, while some are very drammtical. We, humans, are a product of one of the biggest genetical modifications all over the world history. First mammal with aked skin, first animal with such brain power - should I continue here?
Second, we, humans killed evolution of many species, including our own kind. Industrial genetical modification can somehow compensate it.
Third, we, humans, are a part of this nature. Therefore, whatever we produce is a part of this nature too. If we genetically modify something - it's natural.
Finally, I suspect that 90% of GM opponents are christians. 90% of repressions any churches made in a human history were done by the christian inquisition. I wonder, what's so wrong with christianity that it hates the science so much?