Slashdot Mirror
Mozilla Thunderbird 0.4 Released
Random BedHead Ed writes "The latest release of Mozilla Thunderbird, the standalone Mozilla mail program, has been released and is available for download here. A quick scan of the release notes shows some new improvements and features, including a new look, bug fixes, and for Linux users the ability to click on a URL in an e-mail and have it actually launch in your default web browser (how novel). Download and enjoy..."
Even though I don't use Thunderbird (I use Firebird and hotmail as it's simpler) this is definitely a step forward for Mozilla.org and the open source community as a whole.
When anger rises, think of the consequences.
Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
Thunderbird is really very stable. I have been using it since 0.2a as my main e-mail software. (Including all the nightly builds.)
I can't think how stable 1.0 will be. Just give it a try. You'll like it.
less is more
I'm going to d/l and install this release.
Mix the failings of Usenet with the shortcomings of the World Wide Web and the result is slashdot.
I hadn't read much about Thunderbird yet...
... status bar tricks ... and spoofing that prevents you from seeing where links really go.
Annoyance Eliminator Aside from preventing popup windows, Mozilla Firebird will also stop a number of other actions. Mozilla Firebird puts an end
Sweet! I also read that it offers built-in one click downloading. The only thing I use, that isn't included in Firebird, is a spell checker for forms, etc. Currently, I'm using iespell(free) for Internet Explorer, but I haven't really looked for a Mozilla spell checker yet..
Caleb
Just curious..... does anybody think there is a possibility that Thunderbird will support Exchange Mail/Lotus Notes. Unfortunately we both use Domino and Exchange Servers at Deutsche Bank :(
-----
"I cant teach..... Im a Professor!"
from the mozilla/ firebird website, it says that firebird's developed and targetted mostly for windows - although it's cross platform obviously - but unfortunately it seems that the application's speed/ responsive under linux is quite slower than on windows... quite noticable...
could this be X's fault?
my blog
I've used Thunderbird 0.3 and now 0.4, but the same thing surprises me: Thunderbird's bayesian spam filter is not nearly as good as POPFile's (which I used before).
For example a particular spam mail, which is always identical, never gets marked as spam, no matter how much I train the spam filter.
I'd guess the "success ratio" of Thunderbird's SPAM filter is about 80%-90% - with POPFile I got about 98%-99% success ratio.
Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone has similar experiences? I'd really like to use Thunderbird's spam filter instead of another program, as the "training" is integrated to the mail reading application (much easier just to click "Junk" icon, than to switch application and search for that same mail and then handle with it)
The exact reason I use Firebird is that it's "bare-bones".
Sure it has bloat like popup-killer and tabbed browsing, but that's SUPER-USEFUL bloat I couldn't live without. (really!)
I think going after reverse engineering the Outlook MAPI is a terrible and never-ending task. As microsoft keep changing things to ensure incompatibility with Free softwares, its pointless to chase outlook. An alternative cross platform mail client like Thunderbird makes a lot of sense in this background.
http://www.nasirudheen.blogspot/
I love it!
It's much faster and it let's me set a default font. Those two things were all that kept it from being perfect.
Thunderbird 0.4 finally adds an optional extension to sync the Thunderbird address book with your PalmOS based handheld. Grab it from here.
Um... you don't have to use all of the features. In fact, Mozilla is just as usable out of the box as is IE, and any of the special things you may want to use later are usually about 5 clicks away.
:-0
It sounds like you don't know exactly what you want out of your browser. You want less bloat than Mozilla, but more features than Mosaic. There isn't really much in between (and IE has the worst of both worlds, so it doesn't count).
I'm sorry to say this, but your argument for not switching is very flimsy. At least you didn't say "because it's already there."
I have never used Mozialla to read email. I am wondering, does it have anything that will not allow the img src tag in email to work? In other words, can it open just the text without allowing any requests to be sent out? I know many spammers validate email addresses by sending spam with a small image, and when you request that image, they know they have a real email account. All you have to do is make the mistake of opening one wrong email. Then they start sending you 10 times the amount of spam. I think it would be benificial if there was an email program which has a setting so that no requests are sent. I guess what I am asking is this possible or does it already exsist?
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
And yet, conversely, Microsoft's little Internet Explorer does not even support tabbed browsing.
No, the difference here is that with Microsoft products you don't see the development process.
This is version 0.4 remember? Look at that number... do the developers think it's finnished? Even half-finnished?
Install a nice linux desktop with Evolution/KMail + any browser and everything will be at least as integrated as on Windows.
Does it still crash when it's trying to view a PDF document using Adobe Acrobat 6.0 (full version)?
The owls are not what they seem
Outlook 2003! Wait, where am I? Slashdot??!?!? Oh Hell. Nice knowing you all.
I was lazy and used Outlook Express for email, plus an old Hotmail account hanging around. After working with Firebird betas for awhile I gave Thunderbird a try and have used it ever since, even tapping into my Hotmail with the free and excellent Hotmail Popper. Unfortunately only for Windows, but still and excellent companion to Thunderbird. (Also works with any POP email client) And thankfully once Hotpop downloads the msgs the TBird spam filter goes into effect.
Jonah Hex
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
If you aren't able to get complete support for your needs, you or anyone could write an extension; modules that add functionality to Thunderbird.
I've heard people wanting this and that in Firebird and Thunderbird and others arguing that certain features would just bloat the programs. With extensions, people get the features they want, and people who don't want them can rest easy. Works well for the birds.
--- March, milde, march!
Done it - bullshit. Latest everything on gnome/kde is nowwhere near as integrated or consistant as windows.
Having said that - I still prefer KDE to windows despite the quirks because it is transparent, and some things are just plain great, KDevelop is a joy to use compared to DevStudio, which used to be my favourite IDE.
Truthfully, I read the moderator guidelines once a long time ago, and I can't repeat a single word. This site is recreational and I treat it with a corresponding degree of seriousness. If you ask me, anyone who ranks Slashdot moderation as some kind of civic or moral duty deserves to be pissed off every now and then.
Of course, I do think making snide comments in story summaries is kind of stupid, perhaps even uncouth. But what the hell. It's just Slashdot.
You may commence the offtopic mods.
irb(main):001:0>
Does anyone know if or when Thunderbird will support either an Emacs mode or configurable bindings without editing the source code? I seem to recall somewhere in some Mozilla manifesto that Emacs bindings were supposed to take precedence. Thunderbird has a fine set of keybindings, but it's nothing like Emacs.
Yeah, here it is:
When these two bindings conflict (as in ctrl-A or ctrl-H), the emacs binding wins.
Not that I'm saying they should necessarily make this the default, but the above implies they recognize how large the Emacs userbase is; it would be nice to at least be able to configure it myself without having to recompile.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
...me and half the world that is.
The CALENDAR.
I use outlook everywhere because I need the calendar.
If they could provide a simple calendar program, like the Good'Ol palm desktop, they'd open the door for quite a lot of people.
I don't mean a large-scale office multi-user integrated calendar solution like MS Exchange.
Sure, you could get to that later on, build it on top of MySQL or something, I mean something simple I can use at home for myself. Something that people with non-corporate needs can use to organize their life (These people _do_ exist you know. One or two of them.)
Of course you'd be fighting an uphill battle to set some form of open standard for calendar/mail/addressbook syncing. An API for handhelds/smartphones to use (as opposed to "Does it sync with Outlook?"), Microsoft would be clobbering you on the head every step of the way - Windows Mobile 200X will not support you out of the box, Outlook will continue shipping with PDA's, ActiveSync will work flawlessly with Outlook and they'd be paying non-MS mobile vendors (like palm) to support Outlook-syncing in their (even non-MS) OS and not support alternative sync standards.
And yet, if such an API did come to exist, the Open Source community would complement the software support that the PalmOS/Windows Mobile/Symbian/Linux handhelds/smartphones will lack to sync to the desktop, not to mention the desktop software itself.
In my view, FireBird seems like the mother of all places to start pushing such an API.
Bit until that happens, I'll stick with Outlook.
-
You worry too much. Slashdot has 700,000 members (or at least, that's how many handles have been allocated). You think they all read all the rules before moderating? Why?
Your time would be better spent wondering why the same people - as well as a hell of a lot of non-slashdot readers - make such bad choices when it comes to voting in Elections, unless you think Bush, Blair et al are the wise choices of an informed electorate.
hotwayd lets you access a hotmail account through any mail client on linux. What it is is a local POP3 server that translates the POP requests into Microsoft's Hotmail protocol.
well perhaps i cannot be as laid-back about it as you. i can't stand hypocrisy. and, as you said, the editors *do* tend to take themselves quite seriously, thus i think i have the right to complain. simple :)
:)
of course my post is very offtopic, and therefore who am i to use the pot-kettle-black remark...
ah well
I have been solely using Mozilla Mail for about 5 years and it has been excellent. However, I have never used or found a use for "Local Folders". In fact, they just get in the damn way. I wish I could delete them!!! What are they for???
thanks for making me laugh my brains out :)
/. editors.
it's always fun to find out there are people that take themselves more seriously than i do.
and btw: don't you tell me what to worry about. as far as i'm concerned, i have as little influence on the behaviour of a braindead electorate, than i have on the behaviour of
idiocy is universal, stupidity is ubiquitous
me, 2003
...it can't delete spam messages off the server. Meaning, if you log in from somewhere, all your spam messages will be sitting there waiting to greet you : )
I wonder if anyone has reverse-engineered whatever it is OE does.
How is that a "bad" comment though? Sarcastic yes, and poking fun at the joke of a desktop OS that is Linux, but not necessarily bad.
The only people that would think of that as bad is Linux apologists who are trying to ignore the fact that even though most basic features of an operating system/windowing environment/general computing environment do not exist in Linux. (note that it shouldnt be up to the Mail client to implement this feature, it should be a single line API call to the OS)
I.O.U One Sig.
Can I use Thunderbird to check my AOL mails now?
you missed my point. it *is* a true statement, i do *not* argue with that.
/. is crowded with "linux apologists" as you like to call them.
it's flamebait, for the reasons you name in your own post already.
I mean, there are lots of programs on Windows that don't pay any attention to your default requested browser and always open IE. What exactly is your point?
"Exchange Functionality"?
Exchange is a proprietary Microsoft implementation of an email server on top of a x.500-like directory/store.
You can "sort of" connect to it with IMAP, but many things don't work (refer back to "proprietary" above).
Anything which was 100% totally and completely Exchange interoperable would almost certainly infringe on trade-secrets and/or patents. Microsoft would then hunt you down and kill you and everyone in your family through to your great-grandchildren.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
And Mozilla istelf has S/MIME for ages
Michaels personality comes through in his posts. Its not viciousness in all probably.
I distinctly remember the snide comment he made about an ask slashdot respondant that wrote out his replies in clean html, which elicited a rather rude and snide remark. Go figure. It doesnt detract from the usefulness of this place, though it can come across as extremely annoying.
Slashdot is important because it can divert peoples attention to interesting/important things, and we simply have to look past the america centric manner(lesss)isms to get the benefit.
I use OSS on XP while I ready myself for the eventual switch. But, much as I like T-bird, I would only use evolution on linux.
From the parent post: "Microsoft would then hunt you down and kill you and everyone in your family through to your great-grandchildren."
This is an exaggeration. Actually, Bill Gates would come to your house and raid your refrigerator.
For anyone still running glibc 2.2.5, try the French language release. It still works. Open with "thunderbird -UILocale en-US -contentLocale en-US" and it will start with English. You can download the French release at contrib-localized and it will go up in a few days. You can also find the old 0.3 release in contrib-localized.
i went to the liquor store and bought a bottle of T-Bird and slashdotted myself with it...
I use it serveral times every day in a production environment. I switched from outlook express and i am very happy with it. I use a utillity called thundertray to hide/show thunderbird. At home where i use linux i use Kmail which i also think is an excelent mail program ut im thinking of switching to thunderbird on linux to so i use the same client at work and at home.
Thnaks for a great product thunderbird team!
I agree, all software should be named after an animal/celebrity/pokemon that can beat the mascot of competing applications in a fight, that way we can all play top trumps wihle browsing freshmeat.
ex$$
we simply have to look past the america centric manner(lesss)isms to get the benefit.
*cough* Etiquette-challenged, please.
I'm glad 0.4 has finally been released, since I've been clicking on the site to check periodically over the last three weeks, in the hope that the new one would come out. I've been wanting to move away from outlook for a long time, and finally took the plunge with 0.3 - but the move over was driven by stubborness rather than joy-filled happiness. Outlook has a *lot* of good things going for it, and if it weren't for the huge gapping security holes and lack of spam filtering, I'd still be using it. I almost gave up a couple of times, trying to get Thunderbird set up the way I want it.
I hope that things are getting better; when a piece of software is still in such early stage its development a little churlish to complain, but it's still not ready for the standard user. I contrast this with Firebird, which is further along its development path and that is something I *would* advise someone to use (repeatedly, in an annoying voice).
Isn't impatience a terrible thing?
-- IANAL, BIPOOTV
It's been 4 or 5 months since I've started to receive empty html emails with the topic reading only "hello" or "hi". No text, links or anything in the main body.
My guess is that these email are sent by spammers targetting users who use bayesian spam filters, since marking such emails as Junk, thus training the filter, might actually mess things up.
I haven't actually looked at the bayesian algorithms, so I'm not sure about this.
Hack your mind out of its sandbox.
That's because they haven't realized that /. is a game. Which is kinda ironic, as they were the ones who started it.
Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
I agree with you on the integration front. KDE apps are integrated with KDE ones, but integration with anything else is difficult. However, Microsoft can say "This is the way it will be on Windows" and it is. Open Source people do not have tht luxury. Better integration will come on free desktops and with it a lot of fantastic power. Windows will never compete with that.
The Dev tools on KDE are very nice. Bit better cross-language support would be good but that will come.
Unofficially at http://www.metashops.co.uk/mozilla/
alias uptime="echo '5:33pm up 22342352324 days, 6:28, 2124315623 users, load average: 2432.40, 12312.31, 123123.19'"
as a current outlook expresser who desperately wants to change, i'll cast my vote for a centralized inbox option.. i operate about 10 different email servers and thunderbird by default gives me 10 different inboxes with 10 sets of local folders.
that's just ridiculous.
there desperately needs to a centralized inbox layout option like in outlook/oex. without that, i'm staying where i am.
prof.h.
Or he chose an easy-to-guess one and he himself hasn't logged on in four years, but a troll has.
The way I understand it, all that would do is teach your Bayesian classifier that HTML tags are slightly junkish: they show up in some junk messges and (presumably) some good ones, but HTML on its own = junk.
So if you get an HTML email from a friend, the presence of (e.g.) your name and theirs should outweigh the "junkness" of the HTML, and it won't be marked as junk. But if you get HTML spam then the presence of words like "click here" should keep the balance on the "junk" side.
Bayesian sorting really is amazingly "smart" at stuff like this.
I use Hotmail Popper too. Great program.. Only "problem" is that the wait state of the mail client isn't long enough and I have to click "Get Msgs" a second time after Hotmail Popper has read the mail to get them into the mail client.
Store with salt
I'm still puzzled as to why there's no multi-column sorting in Thunderbird. I want to dump Outlook Express, but I really rely on being able to sort my mail, first by whether it's been flagged, and second by the date it arrived. Every time a new Thunderbird release arrives, I dutifully download it, attempt to do a multi-column sort (so that flagged messages are first followed by all other email in order from newest to oldest), and then get bummed out because the feature isn't there.
Habit is a strange thing.
But I NEED to be able to switch between HTML and plain text emails on the fly, between either one, with plain text as my default.
Currently, if you have plain text as your default, there is no way that I'm aware of to switch to HTML for a single email except by going in and modifying the profile of that user to send as HTML. I need to be able to do this on the fly, with a single button or menu item, not because I want to, but because several of my customers use HTML, and I want to be able to click "New Mail", and choose how I'm sending it. Same for Replies, same for Forwards.
Honestly, my Outlook 2000 does this pretty much how I want it (I could use an improvement or two in the quoting ability of replies, but that's neither here nor there). When Thunderbird does this the way I need it done, I will be the first one to switch permanently.
Until then, I use it pretty much only with the --addressbook flag...Thunderbird has a great addressbook, in my opinion.
"With extensions, people get the features they want, and people who don't want them can rest easy. Works well for the birds."
Birds are coding extensions for Mozilla now?
Those cunning oiseaux!
Hitchcock was right- lock all your doors and windows, and hope they don't have blasters.
graspee
I think going after reverse engineering the Outlook MAPI is a terrible and never-ending task. As microsoft keep changing things to ensure incompatibility with Free softwares, its pointless to chase outlook.
I disagree completely on this issue. Each new release of Exchange server is 3 years or so from the previous. And does my Outlook 98 machine install still interface with Exchange 2003? You bet it does! I'll admit that trying to hit some of Microsoft's moving targets is fruitless, but interfacing with Exchange should be one of the easier ones to hit if someone is willing to pick up the gun and aim. Heck, even just writing a perl script to talk behind the scenes to the Outlook Web Interface and translate the HTML into a common format should work. (BTW _ Isn't that how Ximian Connector works???)
Mozilla Firebird and Thunderbird rock! Buy a CD and give them a couple of bucks--give the CD away to someone who uses M$. This is great quality software and we need to promote it's use to our friends and co-workers.
What's the point of using Thunderbird and Firebird if you want a mail application *and* a browser? I always thought these projects were originally created to derive slim standalone applications from Mozilla with a smaller footprint. But memory usage seems no longer be a key issue.
For example, if I open Mail/News and a Navigator window, Mozilla allocates 25,800 KB memory. If I open Thunderbird and Firebird, they use 18,972 KB and 15,888 KB which is together 34,860 KB and much more. (OS: WinXP)
Personally, I don't expect this will change significantly (more than a few MB) till version 1.0 as developers are biased towards their own machines, for which memory is often a non issue (who can blame them). This is very pity, because it hinders many people (with old hardware) to use Firebird and Thunderbird as their standard browser and mail application.
But it works now.
I handle those mails one step before the Bayesian filtering kicks in. I use POPMonitor on Mac OS X to delete a lot of spam on the server with a few simple non-Bayesian filters, before downloading it and letting Eudora's (Bayesian) Junk Mail filter handle the rest. One of the rules I have in POPMonitor is: Delete if Subject is "hi". Mail from a trusted sender whose subject is "hi" would still get through, but in practice this never happens. Most of these "pretend it's personal mail" tricks from spammers don't work in my case because the personal mail I get is almost all Dutch and not English.
Of the 100+ spams I get per day, only about one actually ends up in my Inbox with this setup.
JP
Can someone make this as an extension?? A dialog, like oh say... Eudora has had since 1993?
Thundercougarfalconbird
I think you have hit the nail on the head. I adore Mozilla/firebird/T-bird and i've been selling them to others like a brimstone preacher but I really do wish they would work on the memory footprint. They induce serious HD groaning and thrashing on anything under 128M of RAM.
Thats my only real complaint. Can we shrink the memory usage?
Ok, I do have one more gripe, specifically with thunderbird but I think its MY problem as nobody else reports it. I can't get links from thunderbird (ANY part of thunderbird) to actually open. This isn't just using the wrong default browser, but the links won't open in ANY browsers.
Is there a configuration option I coudl be messing up on a regular basis? I installed it with a supervisor who uses mozilla for his mail and we first noticed the problem (running under winXP). I tried it on my Linux box (debian unstable) and got the same problem. So, What am I doing wrong?
Anyone? Anyone? Beuler? Beuler?
How closely integrated will they (optionally) be?
One of the features of Mozilla that I have used thousands of times is "Open link in new tab" from an e-mail message.
As there is no standard interface (AFAIK) for tabbed browsing, I am a little worried that Thunderbird will not be able to do this for me, without specific integration with Firebird.
So, for now, I'm still using Mozilla (even though Thunderbird and Firebird look so new and fresh!). But for how long will Mozilla be available?
It's called "sarcasm."
Oh but hey, half the team must be working on pretty icons rather than code. It's always better to have pretty icons than working software.
Fantastic, i havnt used windows for anything useful since thunderbird started to work :) I find that the releases are fairly quick too. I assume the release scheduel will coinside with firebird once they replace mozilla/seamonkey?? If thats the right name for the XPFE browser... forgets :)
:( But the guy who takes care of those is pretty fast!
I'll download again, although i might have to wait for my woody install
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Well, thunderbird 0.4 might be a leap forward, but for me it's a leap backwards... apparently secure authentication no longer works vs. IMAP servers (worked beautifully in 0.3 vs. both an Exchange server and a courier-imapd), thus requiring me to send my passwds in clear text... uhm.. no? I'll stick to 0.3 until this is sorted out.. If anyone has any information on this i'd like to hear about it? -pug
One question about thunderbird 0.4, that I haven't been able to anwser by reading the release notes:
Is the Outbox repaired?? I downloaded 0.3 a week ago, used it ever since, love it, except that it's seemingly impossible to put the outgoing mail in the Outbox or (Unsent mail), and sending it when I connect (yes I'm still on dialup). Yes, I DID install the "Offline" extension, it's crap:
-no "send later" button (I have to use "ctrl-shift-enter"
-when asked to "send later" it puts the email in the "unsent messages", which is fine. But why, when the messages are sent, do they get transfered to my account's "Outbox" folder instead of in the "Sent messages" folder?
Is there any way to change that? I couldn't figure it out... I'm on dialup so there's no way I download the 0.4 version except if they have fixed the issue.
Thanks!
Hello! I'm a disaster waiting to happen!
That said, I still am using the suite.
</sarcasm>
I've tried Necscape/Mozilla email clients, and one thing stops me from moving from Pine. Pine has smart saving, where I can set it so the default folder for sent mail is the recipients email name, rather than just a hold all sentmail folder. Plus, when I go to save a message that I've received it defaults to a folder with the name of who it's from.
When is another email client going to catch up to (and maybe pass) Pines 'Save' functionality?
Cheers, Liam
For Linux users it's really novel comparing to what Windows users got:
Windows users can copy and paste images (including screen shots) from the Windows clipboard into HTML mail compose.
And it's just in December 2003! Wow! It took even less than a decade after Microsoft made it possible to their users! And it's only for Thunderbird on Windows platform, where, again, it's been already for almost a decade. As for Linux users, their clipboard images are planned for next century. That will be a real usability revolution for them.
Less is more !
I really don't understand why they broke this thing apart, and then took 4 releases to get back to the original functionality! Apparently they have finally put in (for Linux only, but that's what I use) the ability to click on a link in an e-mail and get to the link in a browser window.
... if there is also demand for separate browser and mail, fine, but I can't believe there isn't any demand for the original all-in-one version. Having them as a single program seems to make so much more sense - click on a link in the e-mail to go to a browser window, then click on a link on the page to send an e-mail reply - why would anyone NOT want them integrated????
I have never bothered with any of the standalone mail clients, no matter how good some people say they are, because I believe the mail client needs to be integrated with the browser! So much of the e-mail I get has links to web sites that anything else is useless.
Personally, I think Mozilla ought to go BACK to an integrated package (at least as one option)
Teen Angel - a Ghost Story
to check, what's the difference on memory consumption between Mozilla running Mail and a browser window versus running Thunderbird and Firebird alongside?
Right now I'm running Mail (OSX) and Thunderbird. Reason I'm doing so to test Mail (works great!) and also I love the website icons for bookmarks in Firebird.
This guy is way out there
The storu says that links started working in this release...
Integration != Bundling
Don't buy into the "Microsoft Integration Myth"[TM] (patent pending).
I use Firebird as a browser but Evolution as my mail client. If I had to download the full Mozilla universe just because of one app, I'd go back to Galeon.
What does integration mean? If I have both Thunderbird and Firebird installed as default mail and web browsers, they should should be able to work seemlessly together (e.g. opening a mail link in Firebird should open up evolution. I should also be able to copy and paste text between them). If I have Evolution and Firebird installed as default mail and web browsers, they should should be also able to work seemlessly together (although I might have to change a few preference options).
Firebird and Mozilla understand this and are doing the right thing.
This will all change.
At the moment theres only a real large advantage if you use Mozilla for only mail or only browser, where you would replace a HUGE suit with just one app.
However, if then you decide to give the other app ago, such as thunderbird it has its own versions of the libraries which firebird is running, so you have to load basicly the same libraries twice, which both have similar functions. Also, they dont share the same runtime/gecko runtime environment.
If you look at the libraries they both need, each one, thunderbird and firebird have a lot of the same libraries however each one differs. Thunderbird has only functions relevant to it and firebird the same with its library but i would assume there would be some overhead. A good example would be is that i assume they dont share the toolkit libraries!
This i feel is only temporary as when these standalone apps takeover the current mozilla suit browser and mail clients they'll both be sharing the same libraries and the same runtime environment as the mozilla suit applications do now.
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
The Thunderbird page states "Red Hat Linux 7.0 and higher", which is of course bullsh*t:
./run-mozilla.sh thunderbird-bin /lib/libpthread.so.0: version `GLIBC_2.3.2' not found (required by ./libnspr4.so)
~/thunderbird >
thunderbird-bin:
I wish they'd either build it against 2.3.1 or change the posted system requirements... One can find versions built for older GLIBCs if one want's to trawl the fora and newsgroups...
Nice app, otherwise.
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
Once GRE comes out, this problem will hopefully be solved because any application based on Gecko/XUL/XPCOM will be sharing a single instance of GRE installed on the machine.
sure I'll have a sig.
The calendar gives a big headache. It needs to be fully intergrated and better. I'm using thunderbird for now but waiting for chandler. Unfortunetaly chandler will much more time to be get in to shape but it will most likely be very good.
These too projects, chandler and thunderbird (+calendar) are pretty much, imho, overlapping projects. Not good.
Very true -- but the problem is that a large amount of code has simply been copy+pasted between Firebird and Thunderbird rather than being put into libraries that only need to be loaded into memory once.
And it INTEGRATES into the desktop... ( at least if you run a real desktop )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"poking holes" is a good way to iron out the wrinkles, to mix the metaphors...
If you want, IMO, a more evolved linux email client, use Evolution (pun intended).
- this ends the basic comment -
Now, as for "horrible" on the desktop and your other comments, I bed to differ. Most home users don't "pay big bucks" for an email client; they use what comes pre-installed. Downloading an alternate email client, even in Windows, is too much for some home users, so they use Outlook Express and perphas Outlook if they have Office.
Don't mix popularity with features/good software. Back in my Windows' days, I prefered Eudora and then Pegasus mail to Outlook Express (as well as whatever Netscape had at the time). If most machines would have come pre-installed with Eudora, folks like you might compare Tbird to Eudora these days.
Finally, I'm all for ease of use, but the "users must be extreme idiots" syndrome has reached an all time high, thanks to Outlook Express. I've seen this time and time again - the settings for an ISP are taylored for Outlook Express or Outlook. If you have another email client, see the Other/Mac/Linux section! A few years ago, a user was asked to locate "email server" in his settings, or, in some rare cases, alternate settings for Eudora and others were presented.
The thought that a home user can't configure his own email program unless he/she is shown graphics as to the exact location of said setting is scary, to say the least! Good God! What if the user's theme is different! Argh!
Seriously, this is stupid, not easy. Easy would be for your ISP to set up a service that all email programs would connect to in a standard way and just pick up all relevant email settings, with a wizard guiding and _confirming_ the rest of the setup. There is a clear line between ease of use and stupidity.
does this make your horny?
Not really, no.
Sorry.
Thats my only real complaint. Can we shrink the memory usage?
It will be done, as far as I know.
Right now, with FB and TB, they are more working on features and bugs than on optimizations, but I've read that they plan to have both use the same API and thus you could have both running with a small memory footprint.
Probably not practical to do right now because things change so much...
Treehugger? Treehugger... Treehugger!
2) Apples and Oranges, POPFile isn't a spam filter, it's an email classification system.
Isn't this a bit nitpicky? It seems to me that a spam filter would be a type or subset of an email classification system, but beyond that, it seems like POPFile does a pretty good job at spam filtering (according to the parent post). To me, this makes its comparison to Thunderbird's built-in spam filters not so apples-and-oranges.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Now if only they managed to include my main reason why I miss Eudora: manual filters. If you agree please vote for bug 183929 (paste this link http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=183929 ): add manual option to filter.
They've got "filter after the fact" in place more than a year ago, but they forgot to make it useful by adding manual filters. It's a shame that such helpful functionality can't be used.
I installed Thunderbird after it was last mentioned on Slashdot. One thing I found is it is a great way to backup mail from Outlook Express. You just delete the Thunderbird data (read the help file) and the next time you start it, it asks you if you want to import mail. Just click the Import option for Outlook Express, and it takes all the mail in OE and imports it into a plain txt format that, if all else fails, you could use Notepad to read (unlike OE, which would take an act of Congress to read if for some reason the data files were separated from the OE program).
As far as using Thunderbird full time, I would like to, but I actually have several years of e-mails stored in OE and when they are all imported into Thunderbird, it sure makes the old bird fly slow.
Note I also use e-Backup from http://www.inachis.com/index.htm to backup and restore an OE mail database. It has worked great and it is pretty good at replicating an OE setup between different machines as well (e.g. backup your home machine and restore it at work).
Yes, I am a microsoft basher and I'm wanting to move to Linux in the next year or so, but I will confess, outside of the virus thing, OE isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
One thing I forgot to mention when using Thunderbird to backup OE e-mail. If you use the method I mentioned above to import the mail, it will only import the mail from the default OE e-mail account. Since we have multiple users, you would actually have to change the default account for each account you wanted to import. One thing that would be very useful would be for Thunderbird to ask which identity it wanted to import!!!
But still, it is free...so it is hard to complain too much.
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
What is keeping me from using Mozilla full time is that it can't download my Hotmail e-mails the way that Outlook can. I know you can get around that with things like Hotmail Popper. But it just isn't the same...
Chaos will always win out over order because chaos is more organized
The answer is simple.
The old mozilla that you know is going to be discontinued soon enough. Firebird and Thunderbird will be replacing it.
While mozilla is still being developed there is not too good of a reason to use FB/TB. You will not save much in terms of memory or gain much in terms of performance. That's okay though.
The purpose of this split is so people who _don't_ want both can have just one. These people will see a significant reduction in memory usage and gain in performance.
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
Are you volunteering to create the libraries?
In addition to the other reasons mentioned, I like the default Firebird/Thunderbird themes MUCH better than either one that comes with the suite. Also, the developers are really starting to take advantage of the forked GUI code and add some neat features that aren't in the suite.
Rock over London, Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: Breakfast of Champions.
Does anyone have any idea how they could do this? A while back I was working on a Linux app and trying to get links to open in a default browser. From what I read, the impression I got was that a "default" browser was basically a Windows concept and that no such thing exists in the *nix world.
Where's the code that's been copy/pasted? Are you sure it wasn't a common XPCOM component?
GROGGS: alive and well and living in
So change the wait on your client. If it's Thunderbird, this is easy.
I want my Cowboyneal
however checking out the mozilla roadmap (see what does all this mean?) , you can see that the calander is not going away but is not ready to use either....
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
Does anyone know if it has been fixed in 0.4?
Thanks
My goof.. sorry about that.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You can still download the integrated package.
In the Mozilla Homepage, click the download links for Mozilla 1.5 or 1.6a.
The whole Mozilla source tree is built each time for each app. See the above comment about GRE, which is being worked on.
Thunderbird is not fast like Firebird. In fact it seems slow just like Mozilla Mail.
And the recipent completion seems to suck like previous version of Mozilla/Netscape. If I start to type "bobs" email, I get "bo[@mydomain.com]", which is of course only useful on an intranet.
Kmail seems "just right", but every version that I have tried has been buggy.
What's the point of using Thunderbird and Firebird if you want a mail application *and* a browser?
For one thing, apps do still crash occasionally. I lost a few messages I was working on when Mozilla crashed, separate apps that won't take each other out would be good.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
For people who use other mail apps that don't have the feature, here is a work around. If you're using the popular, free ZoneAlarm firewall, just right-click on the task tray icon and Engage Internet Lock whenever you are going to open an e-mail that looks suspicious. Obviously, no other app will be able to access the Internet at the time, so you can't have certain things like streaming media running. Also, I'm not sure if it would work with IMAP mail if your client has downloaded only the headers of your messages from the mail server.
At least when one of the apps crash it does not bring down the other. There were a few times with mozilla mail and browser open that I lost a important email because some crazy Flash program crashed the browser and email.
Hmm. I saw that and I'm mildly hopefull that will fix my problem, but I think that referes to a problem with thunderbird not being easily set to use your default browers. For instance, if you have set Konquerer as default rather than say Firebird it would still open the link in firebird. Wasn't my the issue I was having though so I didn't look to deeply into it.
Pingular = Sir Haxalot, etc... He has many accounts and only does karma whoring and repeating other people's comments. How is this comment interesting? It says NOTHING!
Pingular is another version of Sir Haxalot, who is also Steve 'Rim' Jobs. Read Steve 'Rim' Jobs' journal to see how he karma whores by reposting other people's comments and claiming them as his own.
> The way I understand it, all that would do is teach your Bayesian
a <i wqeerqytrxa>g<pomzbelfsk>r <ilenvpwjngie>a</b>
/\/\ make it a little more complex, but this is not insurmountable) and will
> classifier that HTML tags are slightly junkish
Fundamentally, this isn't going to get you anywhere much. While I get
approximately zero legitimate messages in text/html format per annum and
roughly fifty illegitimate such messages per day, nevertheless all common
HTML tags occur with some frequency in my regular (text/plain) legitimate
mail, for one reason or another. (I do some amateur web development and
know some people who do it professionally...)
More significantly, text/html spam does not generally have a structure that
lends itself very well to bayesian analysis. The "HTML" tends to be custom
SGML autogenerated for each message. If you examine some of it closely, you'll
see this sort of nonsense:
<b><gcaelielaen>V<roiqwnbmlz>i<oqiwjhxoisdoifd>
And so on and so forth. This is designed to abuse the fundamental rule of
HTML that unknown tags are ignored. It's also designed to be impossible to
write keyword filters for, and it has the side-effect of also being pretty
much utterly unfilterable by naive bayesian classification. It is possible
to do bayesian filtering in a way that defeats this, but something more than
a garden-variety naive application of the technique is required: you have
to apply some kind of prefilter before feeding the "words" into your bayes
engine. One of the things your prefilter can do is find the word obscured
in all that mess. (The prefilter does not have to know that there's anything
special or spammy about this word; it just feeds whatever words it finds to
Bayes.) The prefilter should also find the same word if some of the letters
are encoded in 1337 (e.g., "\/1@GR@"). Again, the prefilter doesn't have to
know this word; it only has to know that "\/" is similar to V, "1" in a class
alongside "l" and "i" and several other characters, and so on. This is not
a great deal more complex than case folding (okay, multibyte characters like
greatly reduce the number of "Vla-gra" advertisements you have to see before
the bayesian engine has seen all the several hundred possible variations.
The sort of thing above is also tremendously easy to identify if you have a
full-blown scripting language at your fingertips. Just keep a list of all
legitimate or common HTML tags and for every distinct "weird" tag you
encounter increment the message's weird-tag counter. Messages with more
than a certain quota of "weird" tags then get subjected to some additional
rules that attempt to determine whether they're some kind of legitimate
markup or not, and maybe some rules that expressly look for highly spammy
words broken up by the tags as above. (You can take your list of highly
spammy words from the stats database that your bayesian engine produces.)
Or like I said, you can prefilter it before you feed it to Bayes, adding
the extracted words to the list of tokens.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Ok... I tried using Thunderbird, again, like I tried several of the previous versions... but there's one thing I _really_ miss: Outlook Express's "Syncronize all messages" options. I know this is not exactly how IMAP is supposed to work, but even though I use DSL, latency still makes browsing a large folder significantly slower than downloading the whole thing at once (say, while I drink my first sips of coffee), and then displaying the messages immediately. I tried using the offline extention-- too much of a pain to "go offline" each time, and right clicking on the folder and checking download this folder + always check this folder for mail did not work reliably. I hate to say it... but OE is easily the best email client in this regard.
-- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
> I like Agent, and for the same money, Agent gives me a fairly capable newsreader as well. I just wish they'd get moving and get 2.0 out, it's got most of what I've been wanting for the last 4 years.
Agent supports neither IMAP nor SSL/TLS and, as far as I know, Agent 2.0 won't either.
ha! the whole thread modded down offtopic while being +4 interesting/insightful before? who posted this story again?
:)
was it michael?
reminds me of the infamous 'troll post investigation' thing
anyways i'm not going to war on this. thus posted anonymously
anymore?