Nope, I meant the Satan's Bible, the book the "true" Satanists base their beliefs on.
Yesh, I know that. I was just suggesting that a person who, unlike you, doesn't believe in communism might have read "The Devil's Dictionary", which cynics base their, erm, knowledge (seeing things as they are, not as they ought to be) on.
Yes, let's use my convention, as it's the correct one;)
The problem is still the limited resources - property. Land, rare goods, art, antiques, collectibles. I don't know how it could be solved. But I guess there IS a solution.
You're forgetting about more valuable resources -- pure water, arable land, etc. But I guess the problem will probably auto-solve itself one way or another. Nature seems to have a way of handling such situations. Only I don't think most people will be happy with it (ie them being dead).
Surely you meant "The Devil's Dictionary" by Ambrose Bierce?
GOOD, adj. Sensible, madam, to the worth of this present writer. Alive, sir, to the advantages of letting him alone.
Anyway. I have a few questions. Why do your communist utopias always include billions of people just sleeping all day and doing absolutely nothing? What the hell for would the 600 million hard-working individuals need those 5.4 billion lazy-ass motherfuckers?
With the current production efficiency... do you really think you can ever satisfy the needs of the whole society? I mean, take a look at the world. We "need" things we don't actually need. You don't really need your computer to survive, you don't need a big house etc. The more of your needs are satisfied, the more you suddenly need. That's one of the reasons why communism has always failed: they only took into account the primary needs, food and clothes and free medical services and so on. But as soon as the "working class" had been given those things (usually not by communists but by non-communist governments fearing communists), they started whining about how the capitalists are conning people into wanting things they don't actually need ("These things are but opium for the people!"). They simply didn't take these into consideration.
You know, if you look at all the democracies throughout the history, then what it all comes down to is that all that democracy is is something that is called democracy. Just as East Germany was democratic and the Soviet Union was democratic...
No, actually, they're clueless Russian (working for Russian intelligence) agents -- Western actors pretending to be Russian (as in nationality) agents. But the only people they fool are other Western actors, hired by CIA and MI6 and so on, pretending to be James Bond.
Well, it's not as if they'll ever have to use any other language but English anyway. Everybody speaks English, even all those evil Russians in James Bond movies speak almost perfect English (usually with a terrible Russian accent). And if all Chinese speak English, then you may just as well study Sindarin instead of Chinese.
Well, if Georgia really was developing an electronic voting system, it would be interesting for me, too, although (maybe) for different reasons (the first question would, naturally, be "why the hell are they doing this?").
But. I'm feeling cynical and I know that 1) Slashdot is US-centric (or at least the editors are) and 2) Amsterdam Vallon is a troll, so I don't believe he really thought of the international readers when he pointed out the "problem".
Call me a troll, but I don't think too many Slashdot readers would care about the state of electronic voting in Georgia the country. Neither would the editors.
(Besides, you're forgetting the stereotype that we the international readers are so much smarter anyway that we'd know that Georgia is also a country.)
Like the Open Source Software? RMS had this idea and it was a complete utopia...
But RMS's idea doesn't really work as well as you'd like to, does it? Exactly how many percent of computers are running Linux? Yes, Linux and *BSD are big in the server market, but "by the people, for the people" doesn't quite work for things like games and desktop applications (just like communist countries were great at mining ore and building furnaces, but real bad at producing consumer goods); these things still need the helping hand of software companies.
First off, we were talking about ideas and underlying rules, not about whether they are possible or what (wrong) methods should be applied to get them to work.
A common trait of all socialists and communists in the Western world: they're great at talking, but terrible at acting ("power corrupts").
And second, never say never.
Well, you just did. Twice.
[A long paragraph omitted, but still replied to]. That's where the world is heading and nothing short of a serious disaster (which CAN happen of course) is going to change that.
Read less fairytales (Jeremy Rifkin included), please. The world is heading straight to hell. Downhill. All this overproduction (of both humans and goods), which you are advocating, is killing the planet. We are running out of resources, no ideology will make them last forever.
the idea behind communism, socialism, is quite good... well, it's good as long as it stays a theory.
Yes, and so is the idea behind free market Capitalism.
The problem being...that if you take a large enough group of people, this group will include people whose only goals are to become richer, more powerful and by doing less work than the other people.
I'd say it was a meta-troll. You are the troll, and I have been trolled. Yay.
Now, to really be trolled, I do have to respond to you, right? Call me a cynic, but there's a reason why Utopias are called Utopias (From Greek: ou = not, topos = place): they will never work. Not on this planet. Because you simply can't have a society of fully responsible (and workaholic) people -- not without some kind of repressive organs and propaganda. Plato knew this, and so did Thomas More. I haven't really read Marx (I've only read some short passages), so I can't be completely sure, but I do think even he knew this.
By uttering these words, you have, unfortunately, failed to scare me. But still, I guess you shall burn in some circle of hell for trying. And don't think your AC cover will save ya!
These are hard numbers and 100% FACTS! There are several more where these came from
Aye, I tried smashing them with a wooden hammer, but after a few hits, the sodden thing was in pieces! Then I tried a bigger one, but to no avail. Then I decided to test my brand new diamond-head drill, but it wouldn't even leave a mark on these numbers! "Bloody hell," I said. And threw the numbers into a furnace. And when I took them out, they were bloody hot (I almost lost my left thumb because of a number 5) and there were some weird markings to be seen on them -- I guess my diamond-head drill still did some damage;7
Actually, it should look like this: ( ) (there's a completely open 'O' in the middle, drawn without the surrounding line -- I guess that should satisfy both sides:)
Of course it's a conspiracy! It's copyright -- clearly a right-handed conspiracy against the left-handed and both-handed minorities. Even the 'C' inside the (C) is opened to the right, not to the left -- for the right-handed to stick their greedy hands in, that is. Copy left is the left-handed world's try at a counterattack, but we are largely outnumbered, so we probably don't have much chance. I personally am putting my hopes on the future copyboth to unite the torn-apart world again once and for all.
How can you be against Hussein if you at the same time work to weaken Bush? It just doesn't make any sense.
No, it doesn't make sense. But in this world, being against something doesn't automatically mean actively fighting against it. Take, for instance, the USSR. Or North Korea. And that's why they (= your "liberals") are fighting the more immediate enemy. And leave Hussein for a later time, when they need to take him out for some reason or other (I have no idea what Bush's real motives are).
By the way, if anything at all makes sense, there's a good chance that you don't know enough about it...
(yes, I'm babbling, but it's kinda late. So I'll just stop now.)
Well, the thing is, that for you, the world is black and white -- those who are not on your side are on your enemies' side. But in reality, someone can be against Hussein and against Bush at the same time.
Slashdot Mirror
Yesh, I know that. I was just suggesting that a person who, unlike you, doesn't believe in communism might have read "The Devil's Dictionary", which cynics base their, erm, knowledge (seeing things as they are, not as they ought to be) on.
Yes, let's use my convention, as it's the correct one ;)
The problem is still the limited resources - property. Land, rare goods, art, antiques, collectibles. I don't know how it could be solved. But I guess there IS a solution.
You're forgetting about more valuable resources -- pure water, arable land, etc. But I guess the problem will probably auto-solve itself one way or another. Nature seems to have a way of handling such situations. Only I don't think most people will be happy with it (ie them being dead).
GOOD, adj. Sensible, madam, to the worth of this present writer. Alive, sir, to the advantages of letting him alone.
Anyway. I have a few questions. Why do your communist utopias always include billions of people just sleeping all day and doing absolutely nothing? What the hell for would the 600 million hard-working individuals need those 5.4 billion lazy-ass motherfuckers?
With the current production efficiency... do you really think you can ever satisfy the needs of the whole society? I mean, take a look at the world. We "need" things we don't actually need. You don't really need your computer to survive, you don't need a big house etc. The more of your needs are satisfied, the more you suddenly need. That's one of the reasons why communism has always failed: they only took into account the primary needs, food and clothes and free medical services and so on. But as soon as the "working class" had been given those things (usually not by communists but by non-communist governments fearing communists), they started whining about how the capitalists are conning people into wanting things they don't actually need ("These things are but opium for the people!"). They simply didn't take these into consideration.
You know, if you look at all the democracies throughout the history, then what it all comes down to is that all that democracy is is something that is called democracy. Just as East Germany was democratic and the Soviet Union was democratic...
Oh yeah? Well, fuck you too! And don't say you weren't asking for this!
No, actually, they're clueless Russian (working for Russian intelligence) agents -- Western actors pretending to be Russian (as in nationality) agents. But the only people they fool are other Western actors, hired by CIA and MI6 and so on, pretending to be James Bond.
Well, it's not as if they'll ever have to use any other language but English anyway. Everybody speaks English, even all those evil Russians in James Bond movies speak almost perfect English (usually with a terrible Russian accent). And if all Chinese speak English, then you may just as well study Sindarin instead of Chinese.
Or, alternatively, you can just bury or burn your dead, instead of burdening yourself with carrying the piles of corpses around all the time.
But. I'm feeling cynical and I know that 1) Slashdot is US-centric (or at least the editors are) and 2) Amsterdam Vallon is a troll, so I don't believe he really thought of the international readers when he pointed out the "problem".
Then I'm a troll ;7
(Besides, you're forgetting the stereotype that we the international readers are so much smarter anyway that we'd know that Georgia is also a country.)
Yeah. I also think that silent movies were much better. And all those preachers talk only bullshit anyway.
Yeah. Why fly halfway round the globe, if you can have all this (power outages included) in your own country, for twice the price!
But RMS's idea doesn't really work as well as you'd like to, does it? Exactly how many percent of computers are running Linux? Yes, Linux and *BSD are big in the server market, but "by the people, for the people" doesn't quite work for things like games and desktop applications (just like communist countries were great at mining ore and building furnaces, but real bad at producing consumer goods); these things still need the helping hand of software companies.
First off, we were talking about ideas and underlying rules, not about whether they are possible or what (wrong) methods should be applied to get them to work.
A common trait of all socialists and communists in the Western world: they're great at talking, but terrible at acting ("power corrupts").
And second, never say never.
Well, you just did. Twice.
[A long paragraph omitted, but still replied to]. That's where the world is heading and nothing short of a serious disaster (which CAN happen of course) is going to change that.
Read less fairytales (Jeremy Rifkin included), please. The world is heading straight to hell. Downhill. All this overproduction (of both humans and goods), which you are advocating, is killing the planet. We are running out of resources, no ideology will make them last forever.
Yes, and so is the idea behind free market Capitalism.
The problem being...that if you take a large enough group of people, this group will include people whose only goals are to become richer, more powerful and by doing less work than the other people.
But you do agree with me then?
I'd say it was a meta-troll. You are the troll, and I have been trolled. Yay.
Now, to really be trolled, I do have to respond to you, right? Call me a cynic, but there's a reason why Utopias are called Utopias (From Greek: ou = not, topos = place): they will never work. Not on this planet. Because you simply can't have a society of fully responsible (and workaholic) people -- not without some kind of repressive organs and propaganda. Plato knew this, and so did Thomas More. I haven't really read Marx (I've only read some short passages), so I can't be completely sure, but I do think even he knew this.
However, Lem "forgot" to write about all the selective breeding, terror and repressions and so onit took to turn these people into robots.
By uttering these words, you have, unfortunately, failed to scare me. But still, I guess you shall burn in some circle of hell for trying. And don't think your AC cover will save ya!
Nay, they were of even more sinister origin, something so dark that even Melkor and Sauron, even when together, wouldn't dare to name it.
Aye, I tried smashing them with a wooden hammer, but after a few hits, the sodden thing was in pieces! Then I tried a bigger one, but to no avail. Then I decided to test my brand new diamond-head drill, but it wouldn't even leave a mark on these numbers! "Bloody hell," I said. And threw the numbers into a furnace. And when I took them out, they were bloody hot (I almost lost my left thumb because of a number 5) and there were some weird markings to be seen on them -- I guess my diamond-head drill still did some damage ;7
Queen Liz-2 : Arise, Sir Lucifer of Newcastle!
No, this mark means "copydrunk" ("free as in beer").
Actually, it should look like this: ( ) (there's a completely open 'O' in the middle, drawn without the surrounding line -- I guess that should satisfy both sides :)
Of course it's a conspiracy! It's copyright -- clearly a right-handed conspiracy against the left-handed and both-handed minorities. Even the 'C' inside the (C) is opened to the right, not to the left -- for the right-handed to stick their greedy hands in, that is. Copy left is the left-handed world's try at a counterattack, but we are largely outnumbered, so we probably don't have much chance. I personally am putting my hopes on the future copyboth to unite the torn-apart world again once and for all.
No, it doesn't make sense. But in this world, being against something doesn't automatically mean actively fighting against it. Take, for instance, the USSR. Or North Korea. And that's why they (= your "liberals") are fighting the more immediate enemy. And leave Hussein for a later time, when they need to take him out for some reason or other (I have no idea what Bush's real motives are).
By the way, if anything at all makes sense, there's a good chance that you don't know enough about it...
(yes, I'm babbling, but it's kinda late. So I'll just stop now.)
Oh, by the way, how come Marx was a tyrant?