Yeah the problem with that scenario is that both UPS and Google take advantage of warranties, and have the size to not have to worry about downtime. They can afford to buy backups of the backups. Most companies cannot.
What your analysis also fails to take into account is any sort of failure. How much money do you think it would cost a mid-sized insurance or loan company if they had the backplane fail on a system like this ? What technicians do you know who can re-work a motherboard ? I have worked for two of the 5 largest computer companies in the world and even they have only a scarce few who can do work like that.
Profitable companies eh ? I could list off HUNDREDS of companies I have dealt with on multiple levels that not only use those warranties but have site wide support contracts because even though it costs millions it could save many many times that. Sun for example has* platinum contracts that guarantee the system will be back up and running within 3 hours regardless of the problem.
Not to mention, but why would they buy more sun boxes when they hold more data than the smaller vendors (16TB vs 24TB source: vendors), take up less space, use less power per GB and so on. The sun boxes are more efficient (a fucking HUGE reason for an enterprise that would buy dozens or even hundreds of these).
Google and UPS are horrid analogies. UPS is automobiles, hardly an effective example since there is no "enterprise" car company. Google is equally has bad if for no other reason than the scale. They have by some estimates in excess of 50k computers, cheap crap that fails constantly... but it doesnt matter because they are building purely for redundancy and scalability. A luxury that most companies cant afford and few shareholders would approve of.
Here is a list of companies that use enterprise storage solutions because its the safest way to spend there money: Every financial institution in the world. Every government lab in the country. A few large energy companies, a few large animation studios, a few car companies, a few large insurance companies. Thats just off the top of my head, I am not going to discuss specifics. Mostly for the privacy of those locations.
*= at least they used to, not sure if they still do.
yes, but isnt it better to at least have an ideal to work towards that benefits the common man ? If its no different then why not use it ? Surely sticking with the current system while it crashes and burns isnt going to get us much.
And yet you admit that every government has or will fail. So your entire point is that libertarianism is just like everything else.
If our government was earased and started from scratch given the times (ie technology, social aspects etc) it would fail down to the miserable state it is in now within a generation as well.
an expensive warranty from WHO ? I doubt the smaller vendor can afford to have 24x7 next day onsite support. You think you can find a reputible third party that provides such coverage for under 20k your nuts. A chasis such as that is going to run you several grand (5k +) EASY. If you can even find one.
Next lets factor in the comparison. First it doesnt hold as much data (from the vendor: "2 + 2 HDD bays, supporting up to 16TB capacity."). Second it takes up (almost) twice as much space. Space is money, cooling is money, power is money and density of data or cpu's is money. And it doesnt even mention warranty or provided OS. You want enterprise OS's on something like this, thats some more cash right there.
You still have not answered my question. Microsoft DID all of that under a non-libertarian system AND under the same system we have fewer personal rights.
Under a libertarian system the government is required to perform the following and ONLY the following:
1. Protection from foreign hostilities
2. Protection from corporations
3. Protection from other citizens
Right now we have a huge government that doesnt practice ANY libertarian methodologies and we get trampled by legislators in the senate who are a power mission AND we get trampled by mega corps who fund lobbyists who buy their way onto legislation.
If individuals are given equal power and corruption is removed (which the libertarian system proposes) then you have a working well to do government. The current hatchet job of semi-socialism meets religious rhetoric with a dash of republic and heavy dose of corruption doesnt get you ANYTHING. Not even theoretical freemdoms.
Please explain to me how this is any different from our current government. Or any government for that matter ?
You think socialism is going to be any damn different ? The only difference is that instead of people being rich and powerful they are just well off and powerful. Big freakin whoop.
At least with a libertarian setup you have the chance that the people will fight for their rights, vote and be informed.
You dont know how to use google. Its that damn simple. Read a book about how to actually craft the syntax and use the special flags available (much more than "" + and -) and you would be amazed at how much better than yahoo and msn it really is. Add in the fact that its uncluttered and free and then you have something.
Google hasnt made a gee-whiz bang thing. They have however added many useful things, and forced competitors to up their game. Gmail, maps, directory, calendar and so on have changed the way other companies services are provided.
Add into that the fact that the majority of google's goings-on are not known to anyone and you have a good amount of output from a company with 5,680 employees (as of 2005). Microsoft however has 61,000 employees, and produces mediocre software (if any). Hell.... how long between major overhauls did IE go ? Even that took firefox kicking them in the pants to accomplish anything.
Plus to date, google has done nothing malicious towards people or small start ups. Microsoft however is known for its blatant hostility. Hell there have been movies, books and a real life DoJ anti-trust trial and conviction based on microsofts actions.
Actually the funny part about this is that people on the continent of africa did infact enslave whites. It just happened a REEEEAAAALLLLYYY long time ago. Blacks still to this day enslave other blacks, asians other asians etc etc
I think it has far more to do with economic circumstance than one race being more superior than another.In reality people use slavery has a crutch, my people were dirt poor when they came to this country just like most immagrants. I think pop-culture has built up the idea that black people were treated sub human and all white people were wearing silk and such. Which is crap. There are many instances where people in this country and europe were treated horribly because of their country of origin (white or not).
Cheaper is good. However they had better have a slick interface and simple design, and most importantly functional accesories. I have my ipod setup so I can control it from my home stereo and my car stereo. Not having to futz around with the ipod while I am driving is awesome. Being able to fast forward from another room in my apartment is awesome. Its also media storage device, not just a mobile media player.
Belive me, from everything I have heard from people who have driven the autobahn... its worlds better in most places than the US highway system. Its not uncommon to have improperly designed roads here (think no bank, standing water, incorrect bank etc) and unmaintained roads (potholes that ruin wheels, cause accidents etc etc).
We have fairly regulated speeds here. Most are around 60mph (~100kmh), I think that driving at the same speed in a pack of cars tends to make for sloppy/lazy driving. People over here do not signal for lane changes, they camp in the left lane sometimes going 10mph slower than the flow of traffic etc etc. I also dont think americans obsession with SUV's is helping much since it removes peoples awareness and promotes lazy driving.
No it was not. Thats a common misconception. Although the nazi's tried to use it for that purpose, they destroyed major sections of it, and stopped maintaining it in 1941 (4 years before the end of the war) and used rail systems for the vast majority of arms transportation.
It was developed to help spur germany's economy. It did a crap job since most of it was built and maintained by POW's and imigrants.
Yeah because individual people and private organized groups never do anything good without some socialist ass taxing the masses and controling everything through some bloated buerocracy.
I think their accomplishments mean something different to each person who evaluates those things. For instance to me Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are not personally anymore important than paris hilton.
People critisize and devalue what they do not understand. A good percentage of geeks devalue entertainers or athletes because they dont understand what goes on behind the scenes. Jordan spent just as much time honing his craft as Bill Joy did with his. Since we know what joy did but not what jordan did we value joy. For most people its the opposite. Rightly or wrongly.
I personally dont want to have the smart people turned into celebrities. Their time is better spent using their brains to solve problems not deal with the moronic masses.
Which is how different from fawning over Linus, Bill Joy, Woz etc etc ?
We as a people have always followed, very rarely do we lead. That is why leaders are so special.
I personally am not a huge ipod fan (no official Linux support + price) but what other mp3 player has the clean cut ease of use *everywhere* that the ipod has ? I can get a car stereo, home stereo, portable speakers etc etc that allow me to go anywhere and essentially use my ipod how I want. (from most people's perspective)
What other mp3 player allows you to control it via a car stereo, or an add on speaker set etc etc ? None that I know of.
Well, sticking things through your nose has been common practice in some parts of the world since before computers were even thought of. So by your standard the ipod has quite a ways to go.
Have you ever had the chance to read an agreement between an airline and an embedded systems company ? I have not, however I have been privy to the standard embedded systems companys terms. Guess what ? Same as everyone elses. Wanna know why ? Liability. Its not that those java systems CANT run mission critical apps, its that sun and IBM do not want to be sued if for some reason they die (pun intended) while running said apps.
I would never in my fucking life allow a java app to control an implant. You would also be surprised to know that both MS and Linux are making HUGE inroads into the embedded market. Many auto manufacturers have started using one or both at least in trials runs and a good deal of auto's already have one installed.
Also just for the record, I never once mentioned linux or implied that Linux was ready for such a task. You fucking people need to learn how to read and stop making child like assumptions.
Do me a favor and look at the other posts in this thread that came about in response to my post. I in no way shape or form advocated Linux or Solaris or any other OS in my post. I simply pointed out that Windows was unsuited for this task, and given the article that was relevant.
Yet at least 3 replies are of the "well linux cant do it either" variety. Zealots. Trolls as well.
and explain to me exactly when I mentioned that any desktop/server OS was ready for this task ? Oops thats right I did not. You microsoft trolls had better learn to read, the article mentioned Billy and his problem with implants. That makes MS fair game.
Another troll with poor comprehension and a serious OS inferiority complex.
Is running windows. Imagine the pain in the ass that would come about from a crash. Even Gates would admit that windows is not ready for this kind of critical application. Probably never will be.
I have always said that Microsofts failures and limits are because many people in that company (including Bill) always see the limit to computing. They are limited by what they think is reasonable and what they think will make the most money. Hell of a business plan, sucky for technological advancement though.
Now lets wait for all of the Microsoft zealots to flame/mod me.
The EFF doesnt have the resources to do that. Niether do most small business's, thats a very large part of the problem. Large companies patents thousands of things every year.
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Yeah the problem with that scenario is that both UPS and Google take advantage of warranties, and have the size to not have to worry about downtime. They can afford to buy backups of the backups. Most companies cannot.
... but it doesnt matter because they are building purely for redundancy and scalability. A luxury that most companies cant afford and few shareholders would approve of.
What your analysis also fails to take into account is any sort of failure. How much money do you think it would cost a mid-sized insurance or loan company if they had the backplane fail on a system like this ? What technicians do you know who can re-work a motherboard ? I have worked for two of the 5 largest computer companies in the world and even they have only a scarce few who can do work like that.
Profitable companies eh ? I could list off HUNDREDS of companies I have dealt with on multiple levels that not only use those warranties but have site wide support contracts because even though it costs millions it could save many many times that. Sun for example has* platinum contracts that guarantee the system will be back up and running within 3 hours regardless of the problem.
Not to mention, but why would they buy more sun boxes when they hold more data than the smaller vendors (16TB vs 24TB source: vendors), take up less space, use less power per GB and so on. The sun boxes are more efficient (a fucking HUGE reason for an enterprise that would buy dozens or even hundreds of these).
Google and UPS are horrid analogies. UPS is automobiles, hardly an effective example since there is no "enterprise" car company. Google is equally has bad if for no other reason than the scale. They have by some estimates in excess of 50k computers, cheap crap that fails constantly
Here is a list of companies that use enterprise storage solutions because its the safest way to spend there money: Every financial institution in the world. Every government lab in the country. A few large energy companies, a few large animation studios, a few car companies, a few large insurance companies. Thats just off the top of my head, I am not going to discuss specifics. Mostly for the privacy of those locations.
*= at least they used to, not sure if they still do.
yes, but isnt it better to at least have an ideal to work towards that benefits the common man ? If its no different then why not use it ? Surely sticking with the current system while it crashes and burns isnt going to get us much.
And yet you admit that every government has or will fail. So your entire point is that libertarianism is just like everything else.
If our government was earased and started from scratch given the times (ie technology, social aspects etc) it would fail down to the miserable state it is in now within a generation as well.
an expensive warranty from WHO ? I doubt the smaller vendor can afford to have 24x7 next day onsite support. You think you can find a reputible third party that provides such coverage for under 20k your nuts. A chasis such as that is going to run you several grand (5k +) EASY. If you can even find one.
Next lets factor in the comparison. First it doesnt hold as much data (from the vendor: "2 + 2 HDD bays, supporting up to 16TB capacity."). Second it takes up (almost) twice as much space. Space is money, cooling is money, power is money and density of data or cpu's is money. And it doesnt even mention warranty or provided OS. You want enterprise OS's on something like this, thats some more cash right there.
You still have not answered my question. Microsoft DID all of that under a non-libertarian system AND under the same system we have fewer personal rights.
Under a libertarian system the government is required to perform the following and ONLY the following:
1. Protection from foreign hostilities
2. Protection from corporations
3. Protection from other citizens
Right now we have a huge government that doesnt practice ANY libertarian methodologies and we get trampled by legislators in the senate who are a power mission AND we get trampled by mega corps who fund lobbyists who buy their way onto legislation.
If individuals are given equal power and corruption is removed (which the libertarian system proposes) then you have a working well to do government. The current hatchet job of semi-socialism meets religious rhetoric with a dash of republic and heavy dose of corruption doesnt get you ANYTHING. Not even theoretical freemdoms.
No. Most consumer storage servers have less than 1TB of space.
no enterprise warranty. Certainly not on site 2 year. Which is included in the price of the system.
Next, just find me a freaking chasis that will hold 48 hdd in 4U of space for 1k.
and so does every other form of government. What makes you so sure that libertarianism wont work better than what we have now ?
Please explain to me how this is any different from our current government. Or any government for that matter ?
You think socialism is going to be any damn different ? The only difference is that instead of people being rich and powerful they are just well off and powerful. Big freakin whoop.
At least with a libertarian setup you have the chance that the people will fight for their rights, vote and be informed.
You dont know how to use google. Its that damn simple. Read a book about how to actually craft the syntax and use the special flags available (much more than "" + and -) and you would be amazed at how much better than yahoo and msn it really is. Add in the fact that its uncluttered and free and then you have something.
.... how long between major overhauls did IE go ? Even that took firefox kicking them in the pants to accomplish anything.
Google hasnt made a gee-whiz bang thing. They have however added many useful things, and forced competitors to up their game. Gmail, maps, directory, calendar and so on have changed the way other companies services are provided.
Add into that the fact that the majority of google's goings-on are not known to anyone and you have a good amount of output from a company with 5,680 employees (as of 2005). Microsoft however has 61,000 employees, and produces mediocre software (if any). Hell
Plus to date, google has done nothing malicious towards people or small start ups. Microsoft however is known for its blatant hostility. Hell there have been movies, books and a real life DoJ anti-trust trial and conviction based on microsofts actions.
Actually the funny part about this is that people on the continent of africa did infact enslave whites. It just happened a REEEEAAAALLLLYYY long time ago. Blacks still to this day enslave other blacks, asians other asians etc etc I think it has far more to do with economic circumstance than one race being more superior than another.In reality people use slavery has a crutch, my people were dirt poor when they came to this country just like most immagrants. I think pop-culture has built up the idea that black people were treated sub human and all white people were wearing silk and such. Which is crap. There are many instances where people in this country and europe were treated horribly because of their country of origin (white or not).
Cheaper is good. However they had better have a slick interface and simple design, and most importantly functional accesories. I have my ipod setup so I can control it from my home stereo and my car stereo. Not having to futz around with the ipod while I am driving is awesome. Being able to fast forward from another room in my apartment is awesome. Its also media storage device, not just a mobile media player.
Belive me, from everything I have heard from people who have driven the autobahn ... its worlds better in most places than the US highway system. Its not uncommon to have improperly designed roads here (think no bank, standing water, incorrect bank etc) and unmaintained roads (potholes that ruin wheels, cause accidents etc etc).
We have fairly regulated speeds here. Most are around 60mph (~100kmh), I think that driving at the same speed in a pack of cars tends to make for sloppy/lazy driving. People over here do not signal for lane changes, they camp in the left lane sometimes going 10mph slower than the flow of traffic etc etc. I also dont think americans obsession with SUV's is helping much since it removes peoples awareness and promotes lazy driving.
No it was not. Thats a common misconception. Although the nazi's tried to use it for that purpose, they destroyed major sections of it, and stopped maintaining it in 1941 (4 years before the end of the war) and used rail systems for the vast majority of arms transportation.
It was developed to help spur germany's economy. It did a crap job since most of it was built and maintained by POW's and imigrants.
Exactly. The autobahn also has variable speeds to better accomodate traffic.
....
You would think with us being the country that depends on cars more than anyone else we would have at least gotten this right
Yeah because individual people and private organized groups never do anything good without some socialist ass taxing the masses and controling everything through some bloated buerocracy.
I think their accomplishments mean something different to each person who evaluates those things. For instance to me Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are not personally anymore important than paris hilton.
People critisize and devalue what they do not understand. A good percentage of geeks devalue entertainers or athletes because they dont understand what goes on behind the scenes. Jordan spent just as much time honing his craft as Bill Joy did with his. Since we know what joy did but not what jordan did we value joy. For most people its the opposite. Rightly or wrongly.
I personally dont want to have the smart people turned into celebrities. Their time is better spent using their brains to solve problems not deal with the moronic masses.
Which is how different from fawning over Linus, Bill Joy, Woz etc etc ?
We as a people have always followed, very rarely do we lead. That is why leaders are so special.
I personally am not a huge ipod fan (no official Linux support + price) but what other mp3 player has the clean cut ease of use *everywhere* that the ipod has ? I can get a car stereo, home stereo, portable speakers etc etc that allow me to go anywhere and essentially use my ipod how I want. (from most people's perspective)
What other mp3 player allows you to control it via a car stereo, or an add on speaker set etc etc ? None that I know of.
Well, sticking things through your nose has been common practice in some parts of the world since before computers were even thought of. So by your standard the ipod has quite a ways to go.
Have you ever had the chance to read an agreement between an airline and an embedded systems company ? I have not, however I have been privy to the standard embedded systems companys terms. Guess what ? Same as everyone elses. Wanna know why ? Liability. Its not that those java systems CANT run mission critical apps, its that sun and IBM do not want to be sued if for some reason they die (pun intended) while running said apps.
I would never in my fucking life allow a java app to control an implant. You would also be surprised to know that both MS and Linux are making HUGE inroads into the embedded market. Many auto manufacturers have started using one or both at least in trials runs and a good deal of auto's already have one installed.
Also just for the record, I never once mentioned linux or implied that Linux was ready for such a task. You fucking people need to learn how to read and stop making child like assumptions.
Do me a favor and look at the other posts in this thread that came about in response to my post. I in no way shape or form advocated Linux or Solaris or any other OS in my post. I simply pointed out that Windows was unsuited for this task, and given the article that was relevant.
Yet at least 3 replies are of the "well linux cant do it either" variety. Zealots. Trolls as well.
and explain to me exactly when I mentioned that any desktop/server OS was ready for this task ? Oops thats right I did not. You microsoft trolls had better learn to read, the article mentioned Billy and his problem with implants. That makes MS fair game.
Another troll with poor comprehension and a serious OS inferiority complex.
At no point in that post did I even mention linux. Or imply that linux was ready for such a task.
TROLL.
Is running windows. Imagine the pain in the ass that would come about from a crash. Even Gates would admit that windows is not ready for this kind of critical application. Probably never will be.
I have always said that Microsofts failures and limits are because many people in that company (including Bill) always see the limit to computing. They are limited by what they think is reasonable and what they think will make the most money. Hell of a business plan, sucky for technological advancement though.
Now lets wait for all of the Microsoft zealots to flame/mod me.
The EFF doesnt have the resources to do that. Niether do most small business's, thats a very large part of the problem. Large companies patents thousands of things every year.