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Microsoft To Release 'iPod Killer' at Christmas?
ShellFish writes "According to a report from Engadget, Microsoft is poised to finally take on the Apple iPod this holiday season. Tired of uninspiring offerings from its hardware partners, Microsoft is getting into the ring itself. The new media player from Microsoft will feature a bigger screen than the iPod Video, have built-in WiFi for downloading music without a PC, and Microsoft will work with music and TV content providers to build an iTunes Music Store competitor. In what may be the crucial competitive stroke, Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in."
It'll be built with the reliability and simplicity you've come to expect from Microsoft.
If we can see stories "in construction", what's the point of becoming a subscriber? Sure, there's no ads on pages, but smart users already have Firefox with Adblock installed anyway.
What ever happened to that Oragami thing?
I have no interest in a video or audio ipod, nor do I have interest in this. Why should i? If I want an MP3 player I'll get a much cheaper generic one that is less likely to be stolen and doesn't involve brand name price inflation. If I want a portable video player I'll get a PSP and hack it.
If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
I'll take a wait and see attitude before totally slamming it, but if history is a judge, ...
In what may be the crucial competitive stroke, Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in."
I'll assume the summary leaves out the crucial word "free" in there. If so, that's pretty damn clever. I just wonder how/if MS will get the music cartels to agree to it, other than wholescale bombing of their headquarters' into submission by the Windows Air Force.
Not unless it has wireless, and more space than a Nomad. Otherwise it's just lame.
Can I point it at someone dancing around like an idiot in public, and it explodes their ipod? I'll take two for dual wield.
God spoke to me.
But wait, there's more! Microsoft's iPod killer will also: - double as a powered beard trimmer (small fees apply per trim) - provide a conveneint space to store change (small fees apply per coin) - allow you to pause time and move really fast (small fees apply per pause) - allow you to transport from one place to another (small fees apply per transport) - melt competitor iPods within 30 feet of the device (free of charge!)
firestream.net
Wifi, larger screen, other assorted goodies... It sounds basically like a PDA geared for music play back.
I picked up a Dell Axim x3i off EBay about half a year ago for under $200. Snagged a 1GB SD card for it a month later. And have been enjoying my play lists ever since.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
There is no such thing as an "iPod killer". iPod is here to stay.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in
... and locking them right back in again in to Micrsoft's vendor lock-in.
Brilliant.
Next, I hope they'll let me "upgrade" all my paperbacks to MSReader encrypted format too!
I think it is a brilliant move to allow users to download songs they've purchased from iTunes. Eventually I'd like to be able to purchase the rights to movies, music, and other copyrighted works for a fixed fee and then be able to view/listen to our purchased items from any location via streaming. If we want a physical copy, the only cost would then be the media itself and a device (or store-offered service) to burn the copyrighted material to disc. If the rest of the consumer world is anything like me, they are tired of paying for a single work in multiple formats. It may be great for money-hoarding industry executives, but eventually the market will demand this change.
Forecast for tomorrow: A few sprinklings of genius with a chance of DOOM!
...my Passport.
Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in."
and lock you into another.... just great
Translation: The Microsoft device will be bigger than the iPod, and have signifigantly lower battery life.
Of course, given that it's from Microsoft, I'm sure they'll take a cue from every other product they make, and give it a worst-in-class user interface to top things off.
Cue Ballmer "going to fucking kill...throw chair" jokes.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
it doesn't sound alot different than my trusty iPaq which I have been carrying for several years and absolutely love. I guess the difference might be a built-in hard drive (I am limited to SD storage - 4GB), and perhaps a more up-to-date and smaller industrial design. But I already have a big (touch) screen, built-in WIFI, a camera, lots of games, outlook syncing, and the ability to play videos, MP3s or subscription WMAs.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Hmmm, well I'm torn about this. Microsoft's ventures into hardware have proven to be all over the scale. I remember back in the day when the best mice (IMHO) were made by Logitech and MS. Of course, the first wireless optical mouse I bought from MS ate batteries in three days and after set #2 was sent back, logitech continued to be a quality choice.
MS keyboards on the other hand have generally been rather utilitarian and nice to use. I've always been fond of the MS natural keyboards (with built-in USB hub).
Outside of the computer realm, the big projects would be the X-box and X-box 360. Mixed results there, but my first impression is that one should probably avoid the early models in case of bugs, but later models might actually be rather good.
I will make some predictions: There will be no support for ogg, flac, etc. It will be DRM infested. It will not play xvid. There will be some monthly fee to Microsoft involved unlock it to it's full capacity. Lastly, this device will NOT have the much anticipated taser/stun gun feature http://users.mtrx.net/image.php?user=funnypics&ima geurl=2006%2F2006-07-06-0001%2Fcell_phone_taser.gi f&showfolder=0
Funnypics
Unless Microsoft is providing DRM free files, I will stay far away from this. At least iTunes lets me burn the songs to CD as many times as I wish.
It may be nice to download music anytime I want onto my device with wifi, or even better stream to it from a server.
/currently use my pocketpc as my mp3 player, already does most of these things, albiet with a limited space compared to an ipod
Not sure I would buy or use such a thing, but I am sure others would. If anything, it may convince apple to integrate wifi into ipods.
You don't need to "hack" a PSP to play video. All you need is PSP Video 9 (it's free!) and a freshly ripped DVD movie and you can copy it to your memory stick. Of course, it's illegal but hey, if you're willing to hack a PSP you must be willing to rip a DVD.
will Boing Boing have a fit over MS scanning your iTunes directory? Even if it is to "unlock" your music. When do the DBD protesters arrive at the MS campus?
It's going to be about the size of the original GameBoy and suck up battery power faster than a laptop.
An ugly little monkey-looking device that throws chairs (it's a feature!) and only plays songs involving the phrase "fucking kill the ipod"
Anything labeled an '[X] Killer'... won't.
More seriously, it means you're being reactive instead of disruptive.
the assassin
You can't handle the truth.
...I'd have enough money to buy a newer iPod.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
There's no guarantee that Microsoft will be able to negotiate the same rates with the recording labels that Apple has. In fact from previous stories we know that the labels are aching to raise online prices and introduce differentiation, but were overpowered by Apple's market share. Microsoft will have a market share of 0% as they negotiate their deals--expect them to pay more per song than Apple for recent "hit" music. So the RIAA is laughing because not only are they going to get paid twice for one consumer purchase, but the second payment might actually be bigger than the first.
Apple is laughing because Microsoft seems to have no profit foothold anywhere in the business plan. As new entrants their players will most likely have to compete on price, reducing the profit margin there. And by re-paying labels for music already purchases, they are in essence subsidizing their customers' libraries--a huge expense. Compare to Apple who commands a healthy profit on the players AND a small profit on every song sold. The only thing better than beating a competitor is making them lose a lot money and STILL get beaten.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Here it is!
will it be for me to liberate my DRM-encrusted content purchased from microsoft? Do I get to burn unencumbered audio CDs that I can then rip? Can I virtualize this process from within the latest, greatest windows OS (Vista)? Somehow, I doubt it.
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Yeah obviously in 20 years time people are going to want to buy new players to play their *.drm files since by then it will be a legal requirement that all audio files use the *.drm format which iPods cannot play.
But I hardly think that iPod is going to disappear by Christmas time, which is what the title suggests!
(Sorry if I am misunderstanding something, I haven't read the summary yet.)
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Because let's face facts that what it will be. Or more properly, a WindowsXP media edtion pocket PC that needs 1GB of RAM, an 80GB drive, 20GB of which will be the operating system? Is this really device you want?
Microsoft has exclusively stood behind its Janus DRM in the past. It is refreshing to see that this new player will have a more open approach to music files. I have never liked the iPod; I use my Palm LifeDrive for music, video, and everything else. I do think that Microsoft might be able to take some market from Apple if they can address the biggest frustrations of iPod owners, including screen and body durability, battery life and user replacebility, etc. I have many friends in college who are very annoyed with the iPod and might be willing to switch.
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
If Microsoft is going to release an "iPod Killer", you can bet your bottom dollar that Apple will one-up Microsoft with a player that's 100x better.
Apple, I'm sure, does not want to be outdone by Microsoft. I'll wait until Apple's response to the Microsoft media player before I vote with my dollar.
"It was hell!" recalls former child.
No, iPod users are not restricted to a single source for music. Period.
However, I should buy one of these from MS just so they can double-pay the licensing on the 1000+ songs I've bought from iTunes Music Store. Then I'll just sell the player on eBay, and we all win.
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
You know how you can order an iPod from Apple with a custom etching on the back?
Microsoft just placed an order for a few thousand blue iPods with "Microsoft" etched on the back. Internal reports suggest they won't even bother opening up the boxes as they come in the mail, instead just redirect them to their "customers".
Will it be blue?
"Kittens give Morbo gas!"
Does this mean they will ship an actual product, without any of the features talked about here, in 4 or 5 years time?
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
You still have to wait until version 3.0 comes out to have a stable product. Even then, you should wait for the Service Pack. Or would that be a Firmware Upgrade?
Nothing on that list is what iPod owners care about, so this'll be another money bleeding mistake, not an "iPod killer" (besides, didn't we already have an iPod killer this week? I thought they're scheduled every two weeks).
The iPod is a) simple, b) reliable, c) user-friendly, d) cool, e) well designed and f) ties in well with iTunes. That's what sells it, not bigger screens or WiFi. Nobody who owns an iPod wants to fiddle around for 5 minutes to get the WiFi to work.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
From the article...
I hope they'll do something a bit more clever than look at the Purchased playlist. If someone injected track names into their iTunes parsing mechanism, that person could sit back and watch while Microsoft downloads those tracks free of charge. Who needs the headaches of peer-to-peer when Microsoft has such a nice centralised system all ripe for the picking. On the other hand, if they go the opposite route and start looking at user key repositories and other FairPlay goodness, it might be JHymn's lucky day.
*blinking cursor*
Steve Jobs' turtleneck has seen ripping as his neck muscles strained in anger. The other Steve's polished head was seen shining smugly in camera lights.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Lots of other general bugginess. The concept is good with the music store and all that, but the Itunes software itself is possibly the worst piece of crap I've ever used.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
But the Microsoft DRM (as experienced with Rhapsody) needs a lot of work to make it work the correct way every time. This will stop people from buying Microsoft's player.
In what may be the crucial competitive stroke, Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in."
I thought most European governments were already working towards forcing Apple to open up its formats? Let's see who gets there first:
* Europe with the speed of democratic decision making or...
* Microsoft with err... whatever they've got.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Can anyone else see another 360 scenario coming on here? They say it will be out by Christmas, but how many? In my opinion Microsoft have successfully proved that they can't hold the hardware market, they release over priced, slightly above average products and expect everyone to buy them like their software, and it doesn't happen.
How easily Microsoft gets media attention for products that basically don't even exist yet. And then there will be a lot of rumor around wall street, some nervous people will start selling their apple stock, and the, 2 years after the promised date, Microsoft will come with a clumsy product with a blueish screen, hard to use, with lots of useless features, with lots of DRM, incompatibilities and various glitches. Come on guys, Microsoft should concentrate on delivering Vista. Even cutting most of the promised features, Vista is delayed beyond the point where it becomes ridiculous. How can someone believe that a company that isn't even able to deliver what used to be their main product has some chance with a product in a market they don't know, and where consumer's perception about then is definitelly bad, as they are seen as the bad guys. Too bad the media is stupid enough to give voice to such spin. Let's wait for them to show us a product, and then, and only then, let's discuss if it's really an iPod killer.
Your ad could be here!
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/samsung -to-roll-out-sghi310-cellphone-with-8gb-hard-drive -158573.php
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
But will it work with my Mac?
In what may be the crucial competitive stroke, Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in."
So now when I buy a song from iTunes, it not only supports apple, but bleeds a little from m$? Time to go on a shopping spree!
They just make a deal with the music cartels to let them do this at minimal or zero cost. Now you might wonder what interest the cartels have in this. Well think about it. Somebody's already bought the song, so it's not like they'd otherwise get money for another sale. On the other hand, right now, Apple's market share is a problem for the cartels. If everybody buys musing through Apple, then Apple gets to control the prices.
On the other hand if MS gets involved, there's competition for Apple and that provides more leverage for the cartels to negotiate price. That is, they can threaten to give MS better pricing if Apple doesn't behave like they want. So the cartels have every incentive to facilitate this for MS.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
The keyboards and mice are produced by the Microsoft Hardware division. That division was also responsible for Microsoft's short-lived foray into home networking equipment.
The X-Box products come out of the X-Box division, a new part of the company not related at all to MS Hardware--it was created specifically to go after the videogames market.
I worked for a consultant to MS for a while and it was surprising how thick the walls were between divisions. MS Hardware or X-Box are not likely to have a role in a big new project like an iPod killer--they'll just develop a whole new group for it, or radically expand the scope of an existing group.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"Larger screen than iPod Video" = "Smaller Blue Screen of Death"
hmmmm.... mobile Blue Screen of Death.
Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in.
I have something that does this already. It's called JHymn.
Will you get the Blues tune of death?
Programmers in mirror are brighter than they appear
LOL, my wife was bitching about this the other day. Nice to see it wasn't something simple I missed trying to fix it.
I expect that Microsoft will "eat" the cost of the free downloads. As some have pointed out, Microsoft may not have enough leverage to negotiate a sweetheart deal, since they've currently got no market share. (Or maybe the others are correct that Microsoft does have the leverage, but I don't see how the RIAA could get away with that type of collusion.) And I'm pretty sure they'll get in trouble for using such an anti-competitive tactic (again).
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
I assume that my comment was modded as flamebait because:
a) It's true (for at least a few years).
b) It's not pro-Microsoft.
If someone said 'Windows is here to stay' would that be flamebait too? Oh no wait, that only violates one of the two rules, so it's OK.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Google "ipod killer" -> 1,160,000 results.
We've seen iPod killers from Sony, iRiver, Dell, Nokia, and of course Creative.
Microsoft has been killing the iPod for years now. They need to get their other iPod killers out of the way to give their new device a piece of that tasty iPod flesh that Apple competitors have been feasting on for years.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
thats the realy biggest trick they could pull (next to it being able to sync or be controled from a windows HTPC).
basicly, add a function to the xbox live system that allow people to shop there.
another option would be to allow xbox and wmp to "play" said files directly from the device. basicly the same as if you put a couple of cd's in your pocket when going over to a friends house.
another interesting option would be to allow you to buy the rights to music playback but rather then downloading it of the net, you could copy it from the friends device...
you would still need a internet-connection to get the drm keys or whatever. but it would realy up the social part of the game. and it would allow people to "share" their music with each other...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
So to clarify, we've got Microsoft trying to hack in and ruin Apple's monopoly on an industry. Interesting. And look outside!!! The sky is orange! Pigs are flying! And Windows doesn't crash anymore!
Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in.
;-)
The iTunes Music Store (iTMS) lock-in is exaggerated. I think Jobs mentioned that the average iTMS customer purchased US$70 worth of music. That's not much of a lock-in, especially given that we're talking about folks with the resources to buy an iPod - a digital player at the expensive end of the spectrum.
Now if only Microsoft would expand the policy to include music I purchased on LPs, 8 tracks, and casettes.
Those cheap skates won't part with a dime... I'll believe it when I see it. Sure they might do it for a week or so, then they'll drop it all the sudden once they have acquired everyone's email address and marketing info. Do not forget.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Microsoft is poised to finally take on the Apple iPod this holiday season, just like every other manufacurer seems to have done in the past. Tired of uninspiring offerings from its hardware partners, Microsoft is getting into the ring itself, armed only with a chair. The new media player from Microsoft will feature a bigger screen than the iPod Video ( a whole three inches ) , have built-in WiFi for downloading DRMd music without a PC, and Microsoft will work with music and TV content providers ( MTV ) to build yet another iTunes Music Store competitor. In what may be the crucial seemingly competitive but probably doomed stroke, Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple and which is also available in the 'iTunes Killer' (which won't be many), unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in.
How exciting.
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
"Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in"
This is interesting... Just how is Microsoft able to provide these assumably free downloads without ripping off artists?
Does such transaction exist in the software industry: which allows "unlocking users form Microsoft's vendor lock-in"?
"Killer" - You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Which Christmas?
The real avantage of the iPod is its 3rd party support. M$ should force all MP3 players that work with "plays for sure" to have a common remote interface. That way 3rd party providers can develop products for the xPod, nomad, etc. I wanted to an mp3 player that would integrate with my car stereo's controls. I was forced to get an iPod, eventhough i would rather have the flexibility of some of the subscription sites.
10 years from now, when looking back...
'They had the same impact as MSN vs. Google'
'Who?'
'Oh, no one really important, mind's wandering. Hey, nice Mac mini...'
Microsoft might be able to pull this off... if they add the ability to download screensavers and funny sound clips, they might profit from Ballmer's singing, dancing and swearing. Add Clippy as a Tamagotchi-style game and this might kill both iPod and Nintendo DS.
Just to confirm my theory i decided to Google for "Windows is here to stay." and found this post at +5 insightful.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Its just like the current console war, people are already dogging a product that isnt even out yet! From what it sounds like, it'll do the same thing an ipod video will do right now, but with a bigger screen and wifi capabilities, oh and you dont have to pay the ridiculous markup just to get a picture of an apple on it. Let's wait and give this product a shot before we start all the ms bashing as usual.
1. One post was dead-right in saying the OEM's that adopted MS's audio file drm system are SOL. I have a feeling that's only smaller companies though because larger ones generally put their own skin + features on top. This is pretty typical though. The big companies can't resist the lure.
2. I see MS going low, low price for the player. An MP3 player is cheap to make. Maybe USD $5-10? with no screen, add maybe $10? for an lcd and controller. Then they have a convoluted pricing scheme from there.
3. RIAA companies benefit because they get their variable pricing dream come true. Pop-star flavor of the minute, $1.49. Buck Owens songs, $0.75. Maybe even "free" time-out songs. From there you buy credits in blocks of $10 or $20 to ease the a**-raping they'll get for processing the transaction.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
I never thought the first Ipod killer would be in the form of a virus.
But no fear, Microsoft's Anti-Ipod-mal-ad-spy-ware Remover will remove it. Just make sure you have a monthly virus subscription to boot.
Do not mark in this space. For official office use only.
It will be called the Tae-iPod-dong II and it will take off like a rocket!
"It'll be built with the reliability and simplicity you've come to expect from Microsoft."
;)
If you want something that's built to last, get an iPod.
Business Students at a local university surveyed a bunch of local high schools. They found that Apple scored low on reliability. Apple also scored low on features, the kids really thought the lack of AM/FM was a negative(*). However, iPod was the most common player. Apple did win on ease of use. Many iPod owners admitted they traded functionality/reliability for "status symbol"/fashion. The kids were fairly well informed since there was a lot of comparing and contrasting of the various players they had.
(*) I expect Apple has similar research of their own and it probably inspired the Radio Remote. I'd wager future models will have it built in.
Looks kind of like this...
b eat.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/media/giga
Of course, that's no guarantee of success. But it would be dangerous to write off a product from someone with their cash reserves, determination, ruthlessness, and failure to understand the meaning of anti-trust legislation...
My gut feeling is that if it has to stand or fall on its own merits, it's doomed. But they'll find some way to tie it in with Windows, make it easier to use that and harder to use an iPod or other device, and they'll dig in and keep pouring in cash, and in a year or two's time people might be wondering why anyone ever doubted it :(
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
It'll be built with the reliability and simplicity you've come to expect from Microsoft.
Actually Microsoft has a pretty good track record with their hardware products. I'd put experience with Windows and the politics of slashdot aside and give it an open minded look.
I swear to god I'm going to fucking kill the next person who uses the phrase "iPod Killer"
People are speculating (and by that I safely avoid responsibility for rumor-mongering) that the next generation of ipods might have one or more of: a Front Row interface (highly likely), a virtual click wheel and all-screen (uh, maybe), a built-in iSight (ok, fanboys might be getting carried away, but hey, cellphones have 3MP cameras too). Not to mention the whole iPhone business that people want Apple to get into. Will the iPod killer be a step forward of all that?
I hope this proposed player doesn't require special drivers to copy files to or from it. Players from Archos, iRiver, and of course the iPod can act as USB hard disks, and one can copy files directly to and from it without using a special utility. (The iPod music files are hidden and may need retagging, but they are there. The iPod also takes a special utility to copy files to it so they are recognized, but the player itself can mount as a drive without issue.)
I refuse to buy a "mp3" player which encrypts (or worse, transcodes to a proprietary sound format) all music copied to it, where its impossible to backup the contents stored on the player. I was naiive enough to make this mistake once (its not all a loss... the player serves as a decent memory stick reader), but don't want to waste hundreds of dollars on a player that implicitly assumes in its design that the customer is a witless child or a criminal.
The iPod is a) simple, b) reliable, c) user-friendly, d) cool, e) well designed and f) ties in well with iTunes. That's what sells it, not bigger screens or WiFi. Nobody who owns an iPod wants to fiddle around for 5 minutes to get the WiFi to work.
I agree, knowing Microsoft it acutally will take 5 minutes to configure Wifi plus with a Wifi card, a high res display and all the other bells and whistles they'll cram into it this music player will probably cost as much as a good Smartphone and Smartphones already have all this thing will feature: Wifi, a high res display, can play MP3 music, download it from a PC or straight of the internet (or they could with some sort of iTunes like music store software for GSM smart phones) and they also obviusly double as a phones and a PDAs. Why doesn't Microsoft just add music store software to Windows Mobile GSM phones and top it off with lots and lots of storage?
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
First of all, offering to repurchase iTMS songs from Microsoft's music store is a brilliant idea. The problem is that Microsoft has the money to pull it off, meaning that such a practice could very easily be viewed as Microsoft flexing its monopolistic muscle to force their way into a new market.
But that's only part of the equation. The other part is the player. If the player doesn't stack up (like every single other so-called "iPod killer" that has come and gone), then people will get on Microsoft's store and ask, "Okay, do these songs work on my iPod"? When the answer is "NO", they'll simply go back to iTMS. They won't care if the songs work on the Creative Zen 0xDEADBEEF or whatever the fuck the latest model is called because that player is not an iPod. Microsoft's got a lot of cultural hurdles to overcome to dissociate "iPod" from "portable music player" in people's minds. But if they can get past the legal part and actually make a decent player, Apple would have a competitor.
"Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in."
...and introducing users to Microsoft's vendor and platform lock-in! Oh, praise Jeebus, Microsoft is here to preserve consumer choice!
Better keep backups of the files you bought from iTunes, in case you ever want to switch to a Mac!
Anyone want to bet Microsoft's little scan-and-replace utility will "helpfully" offer to free up drive space by deleting those pesky iTunes files after their WMA replacements have been downloaded?
~Philly
Microsoft already has the online store ready to sell music. If anyone has used Urge at all, they've noticed that it's HEAVILY in bed with MS. When WMP11 was in beta, you got a free demo of Urge with it as well. Mark my words, the Urge service will be the MS version of the ITunes store.
My sig of choice is Marlboro
If the RIAA considers ripping your "own" CD to your PC to be "piracy" ...
Then what will they do to Microsoft for GIVING IT AWAY?
Imagine if MS actually pays them a "conversion" fee that is most of the current equivalent of the 1000's of potential songs per
new customer: Unlike cellphones and locked-in monthly subscription fees how will Microsoft EVER turn a profit on such a customer?
Think back a couple of years: This would be the equivalent of a new XBOX buyer getting all of the equivalent games available for both the PS/2 and the XBOX for FREE on the XBOX.
The rumor is a troll!
How will they be able to tell if you've bought a song from ITMS? I doubt Apple will be willing to set up a system that lets a competitor query customer data.
Whoever came up with that movie is fricken brilliant. That is all.
Breakfast served all day!
Seriously, the companies that have to be the most concerned about this announcement today have names like these: Creative, Sony, Napster, Yahoo!, MTV and Real Networks. These are all Microsoft "partners" whose business ventures are now going to have to be in direct competition with Microsoft's own player/store. Some of them have been losing money trying to compete with the iPod/iTMS, such as Creative and Napster. What are their future prospects now?
Apple will do fine. They have dominated the mp3 business far in excess of anyone's expectations, and for far longer. Even if they fall back to a 40% market share; that will still be a large and successful business.
Hmm how odd. Didnt have much trouble moving my MP3 collection around the other day.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This is why it will not succeed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXL5_RvGrs
Giving stuff away at below cost to kill the competition's business?
I just wonder how/if MS will get the music cartels to agree to it, other than wholescale bombing of their headquarters' into submission by the Windows Air Force.
I wouldn't be suprised if Microsoft hired Chuck Norris to take down the music cartels.
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
*Another* "iPod Killer"? Yawn...
:-P
I'd sooner suck my own... than buy anything from M$.
I say that unless they include a free one with each copy of Vista, they will sell, perhaps, maybe, um, 3. Ballmer's kids aren't allowed to have iPods...
Depending on how many files in your library, the quickest change is to export the library to an xml file, clear out your whole library including playlists, open Library.xml with a text editor and find/replace the new location, and then import the new Library.xml file. I've done thi multiple times to copy my library onto multiple computers. If you don't delete your playlists before importing the new Library.xml file, they'll all be duplicated.
The new media player from Microsoft will feature a bigger screen than the iPod Video, have built-in WiFi for downloading music without a PC, and Microsoft will work with music and TV content providers to build an iTunes Music Store competitor. In what may be the crucial competitive stroke, Microsoft will also allow you to download from its store any song that you've purchased from Apple, unlocking users from iPod's vendor lock-in.
And nobody will care.
Do you see what I did there?
16MB Flash memory - To store this machine's only song - "The seldom heard, extra looooooonnnnnnggg version of innagaddadavita!" *or innagaddadavista if you want this joke to have more layers*
$.059 - Ear bud head phones
Case is shaped like a an ipod, but painted chrome for "the edge"
2 AA batteries
And 2 oz of C4 explosives set to detonate at the end of the song, or if you press STOP, whichever happens first
That, ladies and gentleman, is a REAL ipod killer!
---southpaw
If I had a few Billion left over and wanted to build an iPod Killer I'd do this:
... etc. You know the drill.
1) Thinner. Half the thickness
2) 60 GB in Flash RAM
3) Tilt screen aspect ratio 90, narrow player down so it fits in hand easyly (think "Palm minus 1 cm width")
4) Screen display alignment flipable in all 4 directions, enabling to put the clickwheel above the screen for easyer use with one hand
5) 20-30 hrs battery time - shouldn't be to difficult with flash
6) spray water and shock resistant
7) eloxated aluminium, 30 different colors in gloss or opaque option, extra special gold and silver plated options, titanium option, pure gold + diamonds option crafted by Fabergé + leather pouch by Hermés (limited)
8) I'd do extensive test lineups for a variant without a clickwheel but a larger touchscreen that can handle human fingers without problems, screen buttons layed out for fingers
9) hidden speaker for audio input feedback, tests for normal playback with speaker (I see a lot of people doing that with their cellphones lately , sounds crappy but they seem to like this kind of mini gettoblaster)
10) 10 elite designers with 24 months time to design packaging, UI, cradle, cables and music programm UI, I'd put extreme emphasis on *not* looking like an iPod. I'd try a totally different style. Maybe something like the Casio G-Shock line that came out when everybody else was just building their watches thinner and thinner. I'd probalby explicitly show the screws instead of hiding them for instance
11) Insanely strudy cables, earphones, plugs and sockets
12) exchangeable battery
13) highest possible quality audio 'intestines' in earphones (ask Beyerdynamic on board, blow a few million on research), customisable cushions for ideal individual fit
14) Same 30*2 variant paint/coating job option for earphones, remote, power adapter and optional periferals
15) easy to repair/replace spare parts; official retailer repair training and manuals, normed parts and software interfaces for third party friendlyness, special toolkits for trained retailers + parts purchasing account
16) all formats playback, video and audio
17) 20 full-time paid experts and 2 years time to come up with a solid brandname, 0.8 Billion campaing upon introduction featureing top-line artists and exclusive content
18) I'd try to get Nintendo on board for an optional clip-on GBA or DS extension that uses the players screen and audio
19) Zero hassle integration with existing PC programs (iTunes)
20) season based textured versions by various famous designers (very much like the Swatch watches and their season lineups - actually make that *exactly* like Swatch and their season lineups)
21) see #20 + full discography of famous artists
22) I wouldn't race for the bottom line in pricing. I'd try to keep pricing reasonable and establish the player as a solid brand famous for strudyness, maintainability and customizability
23) no linkage to existing brands whatsoever (Sony, MS, etc) - I'd establish an entirely new brand with no weight - also to see if the product catches on and not just the existing brand, make mistakes fast, correct them faster,
Of course MS won't come up with this. They're to bloated and will add yet another one to the landfill of iPod Killers.
Yet I'm shure it could be done. Give me a few billion and three years max. and I'd make an iPod killer. Apple has it's parts where it's caught up itself - that's where one could get them.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I don't know about you, but after reading Slashdot the last couple of months there seem to be a LOT of killers on the loose. Better to stay home, and avoid all the electronic psycho-killers.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
This makes perfect sense, Vista will be out around this time, and with the new Windows Media Player with the MTV Urge service, which not only has prices & a selection rivalling ITMS but also a subscription feature. Of course Napster, Musicmatch etc. already has this subscription opportunity, but having it integrated in WMP will probably get it a lot better distribution. Who knows, if we don't take care of all the DRM debate, people might just like it when they can pay 20$ to get as much as they want. Now if only they would lanch this in Europe :)
What I hate is that it keeps creating a folder called "My Music" to store its database in, rather than storing it in the folder I keep my music in which is called, oddly enough, "music."
I don't care why you're posting AC
This is cool. I must say, the grainy photos, and the idea that Microsoft is making this product don't exactly thrill me, but the idea that somebody is creating a music device with integrated wireless is an incredibly neat idea. I'm about to go off on a rather crazy, unfounded rant, but should such a device become as ubiquitous as the iPod, we could see some really cool possibilities.
;) looking for the next song you notice another device in range and scan through their playlist instead. You either see some familiar music or listen to something really cool you've never heard before. You look around the park/campus/coffeehouse/concert venue/sporting event/whatever to see whose device it is and chances are you've just found somebody worth talking to (or at least some copyrights worth infringing).
Licensing issues aside, imagine going to the mall, to the park, or even being with another friend who has a compatible music device. The idea of being able to scroll through other people's music and (ideally) up/download to/from them could be (imnsho) revolutionary. I for one have had many an occasion while listening to music on the car radio from a friend's iPod where I'd be exposed to something incredibly cool that I had never heard before. Very often I might hear a handful of neat songs by various artists over the course of the night. ATM, technology forces me to a) remember these songs and b) wait till I get home to download them (either via the "usual" channels or direct connect from said friend).
This is usually not a terribly big problem, or even that big of an inconvenience for most people (including myself). But wouldn't it be cool if there was a simple interface to automagically discover nearby wireless music players and download from them at will. I realize the labels would never stand for this, and Microsoft would probably not want to piss off the RIAA, but hell, even the ability to stream files from another mobile device would be pretty neat.
It might even take off the way bluetoothing never did. I think it could make for a much more natural way of meeting people than bluetooth ever did. I think it's conceivable that while scanning through your WiPod(TM
Ok, the rant's over. I realize that my technofantasy will almost certainly never play out due to the obvious reasons (I doubt that with the iPod pentration as it is that this device will sell at all), but I figured it was worth a thought. The technology is certainly here. We just need to take advantage of it.
I only mod funny =D
Make some fake songs and put theem into an iTunes music library. Fake songs have all the meta data right but the audio part is filled with giberish. Microsoft's software scans your iPod library and gives you at MS's expense every fake song it finds. I'd bet that even if you know how to decrypt Apple's songs you could not tell gibberish (random shipets from of junk music) from real music. It should be easy to make the fake songs.
Next, here is what Apple might do....
Encrypt the metadata.
This week's editorial from gamesindustry.biz:
If respectable business news service Bloomberg is to be believed, J Allard has been locked in a room somewhere in Redmond for the last year or so working away on Microsoft's fashionably late entry to the iPod party - and we'll be seeing the fruits of his labours at the end of this year. Actually, you don't just have to believe Bloomberg on this; the idea that Allard is working on a handheld media device, if true, is the industry's worst kept secret, as anyone who has read Dean Takahashi's excellent recent book on the Xbox 360 project, The Xbox 360 Uncloaked, can tell you.
Conventional wisdom says that Allard most recently worked as the public face of the videogames division at Microsoft - a role for which he got an extreme corporate makeover and a much-vaunted passion for extreme sports and skateboarding in the corridors at work, which we'd call a mid-life crisis in full effect if we didn't think that shooting fish in barrels makes for poor sport - so therefore, it stands to reason that this device will have gaming functions. Conventional wisdom may well be right; after all, Microsoft's Live Anywhere model, which the firm revealed at E3, would expand very nicely indeed to fit a connected handheld console into the family.
However, Bloomberg - and much of the rest of the world - is far more interested in the idea of Microsoft's system as an iPod killer than it is in the idea of a PSP killer, not least because the much-vaunted giant-slaying capabilities of the PSP have so far left Nintendo and Apple without so much as a scratch to show for the battle.
In this instance, you can see why Microsoft might want to join the fray. Apple's dominance of the portable music market isn't doing its rival's health much good, after all; even though the majority of iPods are plugged into Windows machines, those machines are running iTunes, Apple's own music player, they are buying music from the iTunes Music Store, and they've even got the audacity to be storing music in the AAC format which, in its encrypted form, doesn't play nicely with Microsoft's own Windows Media family of software.
This breaks the Microsoft model. It means you can't stream music off a Windows Media Centre PC, because it's not stored in Windows Media Player. It means your music is inaccessible to your Xbox 360 (okay, admittedly, that's not insurmountable - if you use a Mac, you can find a fantastic third party application called Connect360 which shares your iTunes library of music with your Xbox 360, but then again, Microsoft would probably prefer if you didn't use a Mac either), to your UMPC tablet device, and so on. Worse again, Apple is making a huge head-start on doing exactly the same thing with video content - arguably the entire raison d'etre of the Windows Media push.
So the firm's new projects storm trooper J Allard is dispatched to create a device that will rival the iPod, and give buyers an alternative this Christmas. He may well succeed; Microsoft has learned many lessons about hardware design since the obnoxious shape and size of the original Xbox amused the industry so much nearly six years ago, after all, and it's easy to believe that the firm could produce a sleek, pocket-sized, attractive music and movie player, perhaps even one that plays a decent game of Geometry Wars.
However, that's not good enough. What Microsoft needs is not just a sleek player and a good marketing campaign; if defeating the iPod was that simple, companies like Sony would have done it by now. Apple's advantage in the media device market isn't just sleek design and good marketing - it's all about the software. The iPod is stunningly easy to use, even for a rank amateur in the technology field, and that isn't just in terms of the interface on the device. Plug it into a PC or Mac, and iTunes integrates seamlessly with the player; go to the iTunes Music Store, or rip a CD, and the experience is equally smooth and simple. People buy iPods because they like the design and the
like the 3rd or 4th iPod killer MS is releasing? Unless they are planning a strategic nuclear missle strike on Cupertino I will remain cynical.
How about the ability to download the tracks I acquired legally and transferred to my Ipod back from the Ipod to my other computer? You'd think it would "just work", why did apple make it not work? My Creative looks ugly and the software bundled with it isn't great, but at least you can do simple things like that...
Why is this in the Games section?
A whole product line:
Microsoft Portable Media Player 3.1
Microsoft Portable Media Player 95
Microsoft Portable Media Player 98
Microsoft Portable Media Player NT
Microsoft Portable Media Player CE
Microsoft Portable Media Player 2000
Microsoft Portable Media Player 2003
Microsoft Portable Media Player XP
Microsoft Portable Media Player Vista
In the course of every project, it will become necessary to shoot the scientists and begin production.
Steve Ballmer
from TFA:
Microsoft will still have to pay the rights-holders for the songs, but they believe it'll be worth it to acquire converts to their new player.
That's complete bullshit. If I purchase a song from iTMS or any service, I should be able to download that song from a competing service free of charge since I purchased the rights to listen to that song already. Sure, MS is taking the costs in this case, but MS shouldn't even have to pay if the song was already rightfully purchased.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
Yeah, that sound easy. I can get the music playing in AIX before you're done with that.
Business Students at a local university surveyed a bunch of local high schools. They found that Apple scored low on reliability. Apple also scored low on features, the kids really thought the lack of AM/FM was a negative(*). However, iPod was the most common player. Apple did win on ease of use. Many iPod owners admitted they traded functionality/reliability for "status symbol"/fashion. The kids were fairly well informed since there was a lot of comparing and contrasting of the various players they had.
Forgive me if I don't take a secondhand version of a college project where students interviewed students as a reliable report on what the general consumer wants in a Mp3 player.
You fail to mention the players the iPod was compared to. Am I to take from this that the iPod is the least reliable on the market? Is there something better? I'd tend to believe that all players are assembled from cheap parts in Asia and all have more chance than they should of falling apart. The best you can do is get one with a good warranty program, which Apple seems to have (in most cases they'll just hand you a new one, though it does sometimes require raising a stink.) Apple's not alone in that by any means, of course, but they're better than many (*cough* Sony.)
You say lack of AM/FM is seen as a negative. But is it a missing feature that would influence a significant amount of people's buying decisions? If you present a person with the feature list of two products and one is longer than the other, they'll say the one without is lacking. But that doesn't mean it's going to affect their decision-- There are lots of electronic products (from cell phones to cars) with less that sell better than those with more. A ton of features don't do you much good if the product is difficult to use or has other flaws.
(By the way, almost no players have AM. I only say "almost" because someone might dredge up an obscure Vietnamese model if I say "none".)
You fail to mention the iTunes factor. It's not all about the hardware. How did that figure into this survey?
I can't stress enough that I do not own an iPod, or care to. The fact that the battery can't be easily switched is a definite turn off for me. I'm not sticking up for my brand. I just hate to see know-it-alls throw around pointless and and arbitrary surveys like this as data we should all respect.
Oh, and...
(*) I expect Apple has similar research of their own and it probably inspired the Radio Remote. I'd wager future models will have it built in.
I'll take that bet. I don't think those things are flying off the shelves. Seems more like a specialty add-on for the small minority who want it to me.
How could Microsoft come out with an "iPod killer", when the iPod has already been killed by all the other "iPod killers" that have come out in the past few years (Dell Jukebox, anyone?) ? Seriously, besides the fact that the iPod is superbly well designed and functional, it also has been extremely well marketed by a company known for being "cool"--something Microsoft is most definitely not. The buzz that surrounds the iPod is extreme.
Impossible is nothing.
I don't understand why the world's largest and most successful software company must compete with every seemingly unrelated business.
I wish they'd take some Ritalin (MS is ADHD, obviously) and focus on Vista. I have old apps I've written over the years that still need Windows. I love to hate them, but I honestly would like an upgrade to XP by now, not just service packs.
So what if they sell music online? It's pennies compared to their MS Office and Windows products. Sure, Apple's having great success, but that's only because they lead the market. They can't expect to enter late, take the lead, and profit... can they? Even so, it'll take decades before they see returns on their investment. I hope this fails and drives them to work on their core business... software.
I envision Micro$oft releasing an army of robots on the world; robots which will go around smashing pple's iPods.
The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
It's not vendor lock in, it's lock in to a format sure. In the same way that owning a CD player is vendor lock in (in that you've got to buy hardware that 'supports CDs' and buy media in a 'CD format').
There are a growing number of different manufacturers making players that can play this evil MS format and a large number of different stores you can buy this evil MS format from.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but with Apple and FairPlay *sniggers* you're stuck with iTunes and an iPod (or that shitty phone) and that's it. Forever (unless you want to lose the music you've bought, or MS actually do give you the stuff you've paid for).
I assume MS isn't reaching into their pockets to cough up the complete 79p a track - one suspects a nice deal has been done with the music industry - they really aren't huge fans of Apple.
Personally I think this will be better for everybody. If you want rid of your ipod and a choice of players you can now have it without the huge hit. If you want to stick with Apple, then you know they're actually going to have to innovate (and not force you through iTunes every time you want to listen to anything (and yes I know there are alternatives like Anapod)).
And what makes a certain product a killer ? I doubt Microsoft will succeed. Apple has planted its image in peoples mind that it's chic. I can't think of a single one that would call Microsoft chic.
http://sohilsblog.blogspot.com
That's just iTunes following Windows asinine naming conventions: "My Documents", "My Pictures", "My Music" (which isn't exclusively an iTunes thing; I see that folder on Windows machines that have never had iTunes installed).
Web consulting +
I'm not saying it's Apple's fault though - music industry really aren't switched on to what people want (this is people who have actually decided to give them money).
When I first got my ipod, it was nice. I installed itunes, I installed my music. It was great.
Sat at work and had some music on my PC there. Excellent I'll stick it on my ipod to take home with me. Installed iTunes, plugged in my ipod and iTunes completely emptied it for me.
My main problem with iTunes is that it makes your iPod it's bitch. Your first copy of iTunes is where your music lives, your ipod is just a way of allowing you to access a subset of that on the move - that's it.
Once you've accepted it, I've no real problem with it, it just seems bizarre that the mobile part of the iTunes solution (i.e the bit you might move between PCs) isn't considered to be the primary key.
Hah... I own an iPod because I don't LIKE anything on AM/FM.
Your 60Gig iPod can hold 15,000 songs.
Soo, lets say you've filled it from iTunes and say that would cost say..oooh $15k
Ignoring for a start that nobody has ever filled an iPod with legit music, do you really think that MS is going to pay that much to help you switch?
They've obviously done a deal with the record companies. We'll help you break Apple's virtual monopoly on downloaded music and ensure you don't lose a penny.
Record companies allow MS to 'swap out' Fair Play tracks for Plays for Sure at zero cost. Apple monopoly broken, MS gets the killer way into market, We get more choice, Apple finally has to compete.
Can ANYBODY actually see a problem with this.
High school kids that listen to AM radio? I bet the lack of HAM radio support is also a negative.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I know. It would just be nice if Apple would do something bold, like respect the user's choice of directory structure, rather than ape Microsoft.
I don't care why you're posting AC
Any devices released by anyone with DRM (Microsoft will surely use the "play for sure" DRM) required will doubtfully "kill" anything. Especially if there are multiple incompatible formats involved (although MS says they will play nice with iTMS). I just don't see it happenning.
That being said, I doubt anyone (major) would back a non-DRM device at this point. Sure, you have the Creative offerings (I personnaly use and love the Zen Vision M), but they are not offering a storefront with non-DM items for sale.
Repant. Thy end is sheer.
Everyone underestimates M$, and I'm no fanboy here either, but it's entirely feasible, although unlikely. If they were to do it and with groundbreaking features (assuming they did) who knows?. Everyone knows Apple are cool as f*** but someone will take their crown eventually just like anyone else does... Why not Bill and his massive amount of R+D and marketing cash? The Titanic would never sink right?! M$ have the power behind them in terms of cash. If its not Xbox or OS or iPod killer they will prevail somehow... This isn't a troll - they will fail sometime but I fear later rather than sooner. They have too much at stake not to. I realise I am going out on a limb here so don't mark me troll at the very least :) Thanx!
There's no point comparing any media player that Microsoft may or may not produce with the iPod. Regardless of what Microsoft is trying to 'kill', they will have no problem in killing the product themselves.
.NET applications to feed my family. I do not hate Microsoft. I just know that a leopard cannot change its spots without the intervention of a benevolent geneticist.
They will create a hardware platform that is fantastic, open, and fast; with full wifi connectivity, bluetooth wireless headphones, VOIP capability, huge storage, and a killer interface.
Then they will load it with DRM, Passport(tm) authentication, proprietary codecs, no podcasting or RSS capability, and a shitty user interface, and attempt to sell it for $2. It will die a silent, lonely death.
And I am not a troll. I rely on developing
gadgetophile.com
I've owned 2 iPods so far, and only got rid of the first one because I wanted to upgrade to a "bigger and better" 60GB video iPod model. I've had zero problems with either of them, unless you count one time I had to do a soft-reset on the 60GB video after it froze up trying to play some corrupted MP3 files I accidently put on it.
I use mine pretty much every day, since it's normally attached to a Pioneer adapter on my car stereo.
I'm not denying *some* people have had problems with theirs, of course. But my experience is, this is a device that feels quite "solid" compared to most of the competitors. (The buttons feel like they could fall out of some of the other models I've used!) Sure - they're easy to scratch up, but that's just a cosmetic issue. In some respects, I actually like the way they show poor/rough handling like they do. It gives second-hand purchasers immediate knowledge of whether the previous owner was the type to take care of his/her electronics, or just throw them about.
There's an option in the preferences to leave music where it is, rather than moving it into the iTunes structure.
Hm... on my Mac you can set it to anything you want. It defaults to... Music.
I guess they're just trying to follow the Windows human interface guidelines.
I'm pretty sure they'd find the same exact results if they substituted the iPod for any cellphone, or any other MP3 player on the market.
The survey's meaningless because there's nothing to compare it to (no control group). Get me a survey done by a group of statisticians, and then I'll start listening.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
"High school kids that listen to AM radio? I bet the lack of HAM radio support is also a negative."
When I was in high school, we listened to AM, not for music, but for sports. For example, it was very nice to have a radio broadcasting a big-league baseball game on AM, while playing softball, or at a picnic, or at the swimming pool, or whatever.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Yes, that's all very well, but will it play my OGG files?
Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
And don't forget that wonderful designed Apple hockey puck mouse. What were they thinking?
I am so sick of reading news every 6 months about some new "iPod Killer" We can talk about who killed the ipod when it is dead. Until then... Stop pointing fingers.
I have no idea how good or successful MS' iPod "killer" will be, but I do know that there is almost certain to be a catch in downloading iTMS bought songs, because, given that iTMS has sold over a billion songs at $1 a piece, it means giving away $1billion at the very least, and MS shareholders might rebel at yet another MS attempt at dominating a market by heavily subsidising a product, and even then, there is certain to be a time limit on that offer ("Good only until the end of the year") or, more likely, attempt to force customers into signing long term subscription terms before they can redeam the offer.
In the end though, it will come down to the ease of use and the brand recognition. The iPod is a very successful brand, and Apple could surely blow it like Sony blew the walkman market, but I'm not so sure they will.
My music (not My Music lol) is actually on a samba share, mounted at documents\media\music. But iTunes still seems to want to create a folder called My Music to store the xml file it uses as a database. I guess I should be grateful it doesn't rename my "documents" folder to My Documents.
But I'll check out the option you mentioned, maybe I just missed it.
I don't care why you're posting AC
Dodgers baseball is always on my slow jams playlist.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
... but yes, that is what kiddies think that hacking is these days.
It's very funny to see, any -14 year old (I used to be a teacher) seemed to have a PSP and it having a "Value Pack" was an absolute shame. You *needed* the "Giga Pack" or whatever it's called. I usually don't spend much on such toys, but two free games with a "Value Pack" was enough to convince me to throw over the 250€. (Okay, I had a few beers before buying it.... Blame the ethanol) None of the games need more than a few Megs of savespace.... Videos? MP3? I don't care, it's a gaming system...
But if I see the kids, it seems to be their primary use... Even tough they have cellphones/MP3 players that can do the same thing.... I don't even want to know their rationale...
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
So let me guess, the business students didn't run their methodology past some psych students. I can imagine the questions:
"Would you like it if your ipod had more features?"
"Does the lack of an FM radio function affect your view of the ipod?"
My 1st Gen iPod lasted 4.5 years before it succumbed to the FIreWire port solder failure. I was always careful with it, and never treated it like a rock or like toy. Like so many do.
Now, Microsoft is going to pull the old marketing trick, we can beat them on every specification.
Bigger screen (I'd like that too, but not a bigger package).
Wireless downloads (I'd like that too, I was hoping to keep my old iPod until Apple had this, but alas, it was not to be. I had to get a new slim video iPod last month or suffer the silent commute in shame.
A new Microsoft music and video store (Oh joy, maybe they copied iTunes right this time).
I go the Apple support pages for iTunes and iPod and see what regular people are up to. They are up to crazy stuff man, they do dumb things. Delete music, wipe out folders, drop stuff in toilets. I don't understand how Apple is able to sell these things and not loose their shirts on support and warranty support. People are idiots.
When I bough the 1st Gen iPod it came with a 90 day warranty. That was it. Now they sell to morons and it comes with a year warranty extensible to 3 for a modest fee. I realize that Apple has to stay in this business now, but it amazes me that these things last as long as they do and that they make (so much) money on it.
All I can say to Microsoft is, are you nuts?
Did anyone read the story, or look at the picture? I could have faked that photo in 1980 (of course it would have taken a week to get them printed, and my computer was only black and green, but regardless). Why does this merit so much discussion?
Forgive me if I don't take a secondhand version of a college project where students interviewed students as a reliable report on what the general consumer wants in a Mp3 player.
These were part-tme MBA students (ie worknig professionals by day) who had taken statistics and maketing and were working under the supervision of a professor who has been hired by large corporation to do just such studies. Now this was a class project, not a corporate sponsord project, so it was small scale and regional (southern California) compared to an Apple sponsored study but it included interviews, questionaires, and focus groups. The results are not so easily dismissed. The sample size was significant, distributions, p-values, and other sanity checks on the data were good.
You object to students being the segment studied? Have you seen Apple's commercials? This is Apple's target market.
You fail to mention the players the iPod was compared to.
The survey covered needs, wants, perceptions, and customer satisfaction for whatever portable digital player were used. It was not an iPod study per se, iPod was just the most common player.
You say lack of AM/FM is seen as a negative. But is it a missing feature that would influence a significant amount of people's buying decisions?
It was a recurring missing "want". As stated in the original posts, the respondents said that they traded this want for the "status symbol" nature of the iPod.
"(*) I expect Apple has similar research of their own and it probably inspired the Radio Remote. I'd wager future models will have it built in." I'll take that bet. I don't think those things are flying off the shelves. Seems more like a specialty add-on for the small minority who want it to me.
The fact that Apple introduced such a product undermines your argument. If Apple's research showed it to be such a niche product they would have left it to third parties.
You fail to mention the iTunes factor. It's not all about the hardware. How did that figure into this survey?
They did not like being unable to transfer the files, a general DRM problem. MP3s were the preferred format.
[sidebar] iTune isn't really much of a factor anyways. I believe Jobs once stated that the average customer spent US$70. Not much of a lock-in, but that's a different thread (literally). [/sidebar]
I can't stress enough that I do not own an iPod, or care to.
I own one, 2nd generation, the first that were available for PCs. I happy with it.
I just hate to see know-it-alls throw around pointless and and arbitrary surveys like this as data we should all respect.
Really, from reading your post it seemed that you disliked the results and made many erroneous assumptions to rationalize why you should reject the data. As I pointed out it seems consistent with Apple's behavior with respect to radio. It's small scale and regional, but it was done by knowledgeable people under the supervision of experts.
I've got to agree with your comment. I've got an old 2nd Generation 10 GB model. It's been through a motorcycle crash that basically put a very rough bevel edge along it lengthwise (the crash also but a bevel edge on my arm; I wasn't wearing my leather jacket. Ouch!) The damn thing kept playing as I peeled myself up off the road with nary a skip.
I'm not doubting the veracity of others who are reporting problems. But in my experience, the iPod can take a licking and keep on ticking. It basically survived me falling on it and then sliding on it. (Note: I only had one ear piece in my ear; I know someone will bring this up.)
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
So let me guess, the business students didn't run their methodology past some psych students. I can imagine the questions: "Would you like it if your ipod had more features?" "Does the lack of an FM radio function affect your view of the ipod?"
Bad guess. These business students were working professional working on MBAs, not drunken frat boys. The study was supervised by a professor and doctoral candidates who *are* hired by major corporations to do just this sort of thing.
I can just picture this 'bigger, better, stronger' msPod designed to address customer needs.
Replacable battery? Sure, here's your 400 VAC lead acid... cheap to replace, and ultra-portable at 10 lb.
Hardware reliability? Featuring a 7000 RPM double ball-bearing fan for a cooler, quieter performance
Ease of use? Sure, here's your Genuine-Advantaged Clippy 'Looks like you'd like to purchase a non-pirated copy...'
Legacy support? No problem. Both RS232/LTP and RJ12 (from winmodem) on the front.
Expandability? Here's your internal PCI/ISA slot. And a built-in ATA/66 controller (IDE cable/power adapter not included)
Customer support? "You can continue using your msPod for 14 days without registering. We will periodically stop your song to remind you."
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Like they promised us an OSX killer?
I'm pretty sure they'd find the same exact results if they substituted the iPod for any cellphone, or any other MP3 player on the market. The survey's meaningless because there's nothing to compare it to (no control group). Get me a survey done by a group of statisticians, and then I'll start listening.
The survey was not about iPod. It was about wants, needs, perceptions, and customer satisfaction with respect to digital music players. iPod was just the most common product the respondents talked about. The study was conducted by working professionals as part of an MBA program, these weren't drunken frat boys. They had statistics and marketing at this point and were supervised by pros who do hire out for this sort of stuff.
for the three finger salute?
I have an ipod. It works. I don't thing bringing up iTunes is a positive enforcer in your argument. It is extremely weak on the Windows OS. I have an mp3 player because I hate the radio, so the tuner can go.
You say lack of AM/FM is seen as a negative. But is it a missing feature that would influence a significant amount of people's buying decisions?
And these business students are sorely lacking in their education if they don't understand this underlying concept, which is the basis for target costing models. If you are unfamiliar with the term, you're familiar with the concept (simplified): instead of a production model where product developers come up with a product and marketing tries to sell it, marketing goes to the consumers and (through intensive studying) determines what they are willing to pay for certain things, builds a product model and then asks the developers if they can build that product for $X, X being what consumers would be willing to pay plus an appropriate margin.
Steve Ballmer?
Error 2101: all your sig are belong to us
The Apple Fan tradition "You don't NEED a Two Button Mouse"
"I don't like anything on the Radio"
Personally I suspect that a radio offering free music goes against the wish of Apple that you pay for everything.
If they could get you to pay for a subscription to listen to the radio, that'd be a different kettle of fish.
I don't want vendor lock-in, either from Microsoft or Apple. Anyone saying otherwise is a delusional fanboy of MS or Apple.
After about a month of being MIA my nano recently surfaced.......IN THE WASH. I've read the other article about someone accidently washing theirs. I did it now to and it actually seems to have survived unscathed for now. I let it dry for a couple days then finally plugged in. All my music and everything was still there and plays just fine. Gotta love flash memory, I'm sure a hard drive based player wouldn't have survived as well.
--
What is pirate software? Software for inventory of stolen treasure?
I've treated my iPod mini with care. It still looks brand new without so much as a scratch. My big issue is the dismal battery life. After 11 months, I was down to about 5.5 hours of play time from an advertised 18. The cost to replace the battery is half the cost of the device itself and you don't even get the same unit back!
I will be looking very hard at MS's offering. The only thing I don't need, however, is video playback. I wish that was an option I could dump for a lower cost. I just want to listen to music.
-- Posted from my parent's basement
It all sounds good, so where are your reference?
Oh wait, you don't have any. In fact these professors and PhD students only live in your arse.
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
If the industry just focus in built a good MP3 Player with support to OGG, OGG-Theora and all the MPG-* they have the market in their pocket, but they think 'No, it's better, let's make something to kill the iPod', people, the iPod kill himself.
Build something good! We don't want a copy!
ghostbar page.
HA! I've owned, er, own only one iPod. Bought it a long time ago. Have no problems save for needing a reset whenver I leave it uncharged and unused for over a week and it won't mount as a firewire disc.
Do I take care of it and is that the only reason it has survived? Dunno. Here's a kicker: it survived Burning Man. The entire 8 days. In the dust. In the heat. And in light of a campmate who claims all iPods are unreliable since the one he bought off eBay died on him shortly after he started using it.
Fighting antecdote with antecdote....
"Bad guess. These business students were working professional working on MBAs, not drunken frat boys. The study was supervised by a professor and doctoral candidates who *are* hired by major corporations to do just this sort of thing."
It all sounds good, so where are your reference? Oh wait, you don't have any. In fact these professors and PhD students only live in your arse.
It's not my survey. I know the people who conducted it and supervised it, and I sat in on the presentation of the results. I don't have the data, and it's not my place to publish it in any case. It was a serious effort, and it was qualified as small scale and localized by those conducting it. I could care less what you think of the results, you come off as a zealot so your opinion is worthless. I respond only so that other readers can make their own informed opinion.
Msft has said themselves: a big part of the ipod craze is the trendy fashion statement. It's like wearing the right name-brand running shoes, as opposed to some cheap knock-off.
Consider the age group that is the target market. High school, and college students just don't consider msft cool anymore (did they ever?).
Microsoft is hoping the halo effect from this new iPod killer will draw in new Windows Vista users.
Which means absolutely nothing in the long run. Nada zip zilch. Most surveys are unreliable in the extreme. Especially coming out of todays institutions. Until I see the polling data itself as well as the methedology, I never quote a survey because until those things are made public one cannot treat the survey/experiment as reliable. At all, not if one is being honest.
Because Apple is the most proprietary of the bunch. Think of all the times Apple released a new version of ITunes to shut off some cool 3rd party app. Don't get me wrong the ipod hardware is super/best of breed but Apple keeps a tight leash on what you can do with it...besides what has Apple given back to OSS?
I have a media center PC that records my shows and automatically transcodes it to my creative ZEN 30GB Video player. It all works seamlessly without having to PURCHASE a video from ITunes!!!!!
Who has more freedom here???? I DO!!! I record what I want, when I want, and watch it where I want!!!
just to download the 1600+ iTMS songs I own in another format that is easier to crack and make free of DRM... And if MSFT plays the price down to gain market share and all my songs are free (but they still pay the fees on) then I win and MS loses...
To this day Microsoft has yet to turn a profit on the XBox project.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
As the parent poster said, yes, some people have had problems. As with any products, it's people that have had problems that you hear bitching on forums - you don't often see threads saying "Thanks company, your product rocks!" or whatever, and if so they're few and far between, unlike troubleshooting threads.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
Which means absolutely nothing in the long run. Nada zip zilch. Most surveys are unreliable in the extreme. Especially coming out of todays institutions. Until I see the polling data itself as well as the methedology, I never quote a survey because until those things are made public one cannot treat the survey/experiment as reliable. At all, not if one is being honest.
The professor supervising the project is occasionally hired by major corporations to conduct such surveys. I know him well enough to trust him, I am a former student of his. I know of at least one project that was canceled because results were "heading in the wrong direction" to quote the corporation paying the bills. He saw it coming, knew they would be unhappy, but kept his integrity. He stressed the importance of this in class. This is not a guy that Micorosft goes to when they want a comparison against Linux. He supervised the work, his goal was to train these MBA candidates to do this for real, so I am personaly satisfied. Again, with the caveat that this was small scale and localized, as the students pointed out themselves in their presentation.
The iPad?
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
I wouldn't be so sure. The iPod hi-fi's lack of radio functionality is even harder to understand if so.
So far, how many iPod killers has the iPod killed?
Obviously, Microsoft's player will suck. But I hope it doesn't suck TOO badly, just enough to get some real competition going. iPod needs WiFi, it's the obvious thing it lacks (both for connecting to the host PC and for streaming songs to an Airport Express, etc). Bigger screen -well, whatever, for me that's not an issue, as I don't want to watch movies on an iPod type device - it's bad enough on a TV.
Likewise, if Apple feel that the iTMS is coming under some genuine strain, it might prompt them to open it up a bit more, drop prices - whatever it takes to stay ahead. That's assuming that the competing services can truly compete, and don't have their hands ultimately tied by the music industry.
The actual quote was:
"We're going to fucking KILL the iPod"
Task Mangler
Play song number to... Ahhh crap BSOD! Shit! "turns off mPord" "Turns back on" "Ahhh crap froze at loading screen! What?? Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete! Ahh shit! Where the fuck is that! Ahhh forgot to but Ctrl+Alt+Delete mini keybored for it!"
Linux, because a PC is a terrible thing to waste.
Alright, I call bullshit. You provide none of the methodology used in this survey, none of the data collected, and none of the arguments used to reach the conclusions that you state. But most importantly, you fail to provide any evidence that this survey ever took place.
In your replies to people asking for references, you refuse to provide any evidence that is verifiable. Claiming "I know the professor personally, he's great" is all well and good, provided you can give us proof. You provide none.
Then, when people call you on it, you attack them. Claiming that another poster "sounds like a zealot so your opinion is worthless" (quote) is a great example of one of my favorite logical fallacies, the ad hominem attack. Way to go.
It's true that you don't have to provide any references. It's equally true that no one has to believe that this vaporware study ever took place.
I love my iPod, wouldnt sell my 3G 15GB iPod for ten grand, it means that much to me.
Now, I think Microshaft could afford to PAY 1.50 per song, and then sell them to you for 50 cents. They could claim it as their R&D budget!
---
I don't have an iPod because it doesn't have an FM radio. My cellphone does.
I was going to send you over to OWC for a mini battery replacement for $24.95, but I see that they recommend that you don't do it yourself on the minis. If you watch the installation video, you'll see that changing the battery on the mini is a real PITA, and much more involved than changing the battery on one of the regular iPods. OWC does offer installation with quick turn around for an additional $39.00.
I was hoping this would be helpful to you, but alas, it looks more expensive or more trouble than I had originally thought. Best of luck whatever you decide to do.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I'm a fan of the iPods generally, but just to answer your question regarding rugged electronic gadgets, take a look at GPS receivers.
I don't know what the very recent ones are like -- maybe they're built like crap -- because I'm still using my Magellan GPS 300, purchased back in 2000. It's waterproof (hell, it floats), dustproof, shockproof, and short of smashing it with a hammer, basically close to indestructible under normal use. The only comment I have to say about it is that the screen can get scratched if you're not careful; I solve this by keeping it inside an old sock.
Granted, it's a whole lot bigger than an iPod, and pretty spartan in terms of features. It basically does one thing in life (tell you where you are in your choice of coordinate systems) and that's it. I'm not sure what sort of tradeoffs they made in order to create something so rugged: I imagine one that wasn't would be a lot smaller and probably would have been cheaper. It's all about what you want.
There are doubtless some of us (geeks, especially) who would find the idea of an MP3 player the size of a brick and about as hard to destroy attractive. But the resulting product would not be an iPod, and would not sell like one.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
And there are plenty of 3rd-party FM tuners for the iPod. There's a nice radio remote from Griffin that even records FM to the iPod. Apple appears [1] to be leaving this niche to the accessory market. CDW shows 18 hits for iPod FM tuners, some remotes and some docking stations. Apple even makes one (that doesn't record).
[1] My employer has Apple as a client, I am not speaking for them or Apple and I surely don't know about any Apple plans.
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
http://www.rickemerson.com/
;)
Or just search the shoutcast streams for "Emerson"
My email addy? should be easy enough.
Mod parent up. Superb example of an emotional apologist having his ass handed to him.
And the Lord was wrothful at the stupidity of young middle class Americans with more gadgets than brains, and He said: Thou who useth iPod in lightning, let thy ass know it matters not the righteousness of the playlist. For yea all are smoted when conductive wire runneth into the ear.
"Microsoft".. Check!
5 888437378&q=soulwax - hurray!
"iPod".. Check!
"Killer".. Check!
Hmm, this is missing "Google".. Wait, I'll throw in a link to a nice iPod commercial spoof hosted there! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=579193244
I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
Not really on topic, but I recently bought an old (purple) iMac G3, to use as a wireless printserver. It came with original keyboard and mouse aka the dreaded "hockeypuck", which I thought was nice since I'd have a complete "classic" in working condition.
:-P) you might start liking it.
I had prepared a new optical mouse to replace the puck for all practical purposes, and you know what... First off all it worked real well especially given it is seven years old and not optical. And seconldly I like the puck. So there it is, I came clean (I must be some kind of freak or something, as far as I hear I must be the only person alive to like this thing).
Anyhow many people who snare at "the puck" have never used it. It takes some getting used to, but (if you have small hands like me
J.
1. Sign iTunes users up for the new M$ music store
2. Give free downloads of all songs in their iTunes libraries
3. I have got you by the short hairy ones, you are now locked in! Mwha,Mwha,Mwha!
4. Profit!
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Ah, right. It'll still create the folder with the xml files, but it won't copy your music into it. You can change the location of the iTunes Music folder as well. Check in Preferences:Advanced:General.
Seriously, by the time MS gets this on the market, other PMPs like this http://www.stuffmagazine.co.uk/hotstuffarticle.asp ?de_id=1902 will already be in the stores.
(Is there ANYONE that isn't putting out something similar?)
Heck, I'd bet even a toy like this one http://vugo.com/vugo.php will give it a run for the money.
The U.S. really needs an English to Wisdom dictionary.
It will run Linux!
I have 3 MP3 players. My iPod is by FAR the least reliable and also sounds the worst. The only reason I have it is it interfaces with the BMW Ibus control system and no other ones do that I know of.
...Yeah... See, you can't post 4 vague sentences and get angry at someone who shows all the holes in them. You needed to clarify; he doesn't particularly need to apologise. Also, I'm still not seeing any kind of reference to this study... Where was it published? I'd like to look at the numbers myself now, because these results don't fit with the experience or desires of anyone I know with an iPod... But that could be generational; I'm old. How 'bout a nice little reference to help us along?
It really comes down to how you treat you stuff. Most of my stuff lasts me years before I have to get a new one. This includes mp3 players, phones, and computers. I also know people who seem to go through cell phones every 6 months. I often wonder what these people do with their stuff. I know people who have owned ipods for years and not had a single problem. Everyone knows a guy who spent $500 on an ipod, only to have it stop working after 6 months. But I'm pretty sure it would have happened no matter which player these guys bought.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Same here (except my cellphone doesn't have any media capabilities). An iPod also isn't practical to dump the content of my cameras into. Two essential uses of any portable player for me.
So to replace my iRiver H320 (why iRiver discontinued that one and replaced it with models with fewer features is apparently a mystery to everybody) I got a Creative model. Has FM, a CF slot (and an adapter for other formats), can record and plays the MP3 files I ripped my CDs to (no OGG support so there are a couple CDs I'll have to rerip).
On the minus side it uses the overly complicated MTP to talk through USB (thankfully supported everywhere thanks to libmtp although mass storage support would have been simpler).
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
> As stated in the original posts, the respondents said that they traded this want for the "status symbol" nature of the iPod.
I'm interested in your results. Did you do a conjoint analysis? How much was did the "status symbol" overweigh the other salient attributes?
> iTune isn't really much of a factor anyways.
I disagree with this. From my own study (part time MBA as well) the combined iTunes + iPod + iTunes Music Store is the reason why the iPod is such a success. The three of them together served as what's called a "whole product" in that they satisfied all three aspects of the Kano model (boring paper available upon request!). Although it's possible your survey respondents may not realize this explicitly.
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
I have a 60GB from right before the video models. The HD died a slow death after about a year. I'm gonna take it in and see how much a repair costs. I am pretty unhappy as I've never bought an HD with such a short life.
It does feel very solid, but it doesn't work. And I've never dropped it or anything like that. It cost like 400$ and was the first Apple product I've ever bought. If the repair cost is expensive, I will probably never buy an Apple product again.
People use microsoft because they have to, they use ipod because "its cool"
M$ may have a chance if they somehow tie it in with the xbox (or make it look somewhat like it) but otherwise it will die.
Microsoft makes money in the Windows division. MS has lost around $7 Billion in the last four years on divisions like the XBox and MSN. They've got their essential monopoly in the PC market, and they're using it for forays into other areas -- none of which has been that successful.
Given that, this supposed plan to pay for licenses to everything you've bought on iTunes does fit MS's established M.O.... which is to lose reams of money trying to gain market share, just as you say. Xbox/360 market share today is something like 34 percent. Bought at ruinous cost.
The difference between MS and Apple here couldn't be clearer. The iPod has been out since October 2001. Five years of incredible profitability for Apple later, MS has figured out how to lose scads of money in order to attempt to catch up? Gee, can they purchase 30% of the market this way? How ambitious!
I'm not a particular fanboy of Generallissimo Steve Jobs, but he's had his own "iPod killers" more than once since 2001; the mini was their best-selling model when he replaced it...
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
iTunes most certainly will move files. If you point to your top level MP3 directory which is nicely organized by artist and albums as your library, and tell iTunes to manage your files, those files will all disappear into iTunes god-forsaken organizational system. It appears to be similar to iPhoto's organization, which makes sense from a programmers perspective, but not from a user perspective.
Both those programs fail horribly in file organization from a user perspective. Now, on a Mac, with Spotlight, this isn't a killer. Then again, on a Mac, you learn to do things slightly differently not that this excuses the file system fiasco. For instance, let's say I want to back up my photos in roll 'x'. Well, you can copy them from within iPhoto to a CD/DVD and burn them, or copy them to another directory via a Finder window. But neither of these methodologies will do a full copy of everything relating to the "roll", including originals of edits made. For that, you get to dive into the file system with finder. Yeah, fun.
The real question is whether the commonly known way (ie, Windows) is really the "right" way. After using a Mac for the past 1.5 years while concurrently running multiple windows systems, my answer is that windows needs to change. (Vista is a massive change, but probably not in the right direction)
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Have no problems save for needing a reset whenver I leave it uncharged and unused for over a week and it won't mount as a firewire disc.
That's actually by design. Normally, it goes into a sleep/soft power off mode. If it hasn't been powered up for a few days, it will then fully power itself down. In order to turn it on, you need to hold the play button for a few seconds.
This guy's the limit!
"Just as chock full of DRM as the ipod"?
The worst thing I've run into with Apple's DRM policy -- and I've never had it actually obstruct something I was trying to do, just noticed it -- was a change in policy so that I could only burn 7 copies of an identical playlist rather than 10.
Essentially all the WMA options selling DRM'ed files have more restrictive policies. Napster to go: pay a subscription fee, then pay per burn for each song. And so on, with many variations. They've all got similar problems with format lock-in, obviously -- with the added question of whether their various supported formats will be supported if, say, Real goes out of the business.
They are all DRM'd files, that I'll give you. To varying degrees, and iTunes is the one I've bought from and never had to think about at all.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
a) Microsoft was convicted of abusing their monopoly in the browser fight, giving Apple tremendous legal firepower if MS starts bundling their music store with the OS;
and
b) Apple is no tiny start-up like Netscape, but a highly profitable 30-year-old company with seasoned management and legal teams, and over $8 billion in the bank.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
The purpose of the Xbox project and this project are not to make money. The purpose is to gain as much marketshare as possible as quickly as possible at whatever cost necessary. Microsoft has demonstrated that they have the wearwithall(sp?) to stay the course, they have demonstrated this time and again.
Both projects are loss leaders, they'll take large short term losses for gigantic long term gains. They're one of the only companies that can afford a business model that starts with, "First we'll throw money at the consumer...".
You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
What were they thinking?
"Let's make the computer keep track of our air hockey match!"
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Here is the MS nightmare scenario...
* MSFT negotiates one-time flat fee to music industry to let I-tunes customers use the content they already bought on the new player/service.
* Similar to X-box, product is priced at a discount to build market share and hopefully capture revenue on content distribution
* Product is locked-down against non-MS software, to ensure the revenue stream is not disrupted by rogue software
* Lock-down is less than perfect. Hey, it's an MS product.
* Hackers buy the players, and run Linux on it. Just like they did with Ipod.
* Wifi hardware means a whole new frontier of peer-to-peer filesharing, after the MS DRM is vaporized.
* People buy LOTS of MS music players when they realize what is possible with a nifty download
* Music industry angry with MSFT for enabling a massive, untrackable, unstoppable, wireless P2P network.
The one missing piece of the puzzle is a wifi music player. Hackers can't create hardware and put in the hands of millions of people. Along comes the unlikely hero... Microsoft!
And I thought they would never create a product that customers would really want. HA!
It was not published. It was a class project. I was not involved, I did get to sit in on the presentation where methodology and results were covered.
It wasn't my study but I did get to sit in on the presentation where methodology and results were covered. There was a conjoint analysis, I don't recall the numbers but I do recall that status symbol/fashion was singled out by presenters as being important.
"iTune isn't really much of a factor anyways."
I disagree with this.
This referred to the study:
"They did not like being unable to transfer the files, a general DRM problem. MP3s were the preferred format."
The following was my own opinion, I apologize for the [sidebar] tags not being explicit enough. I used "sidebar" since I was going off on a tangent regarding lock-in, future success rather than past success.
"[sidebar] iTune isn't really much of a factor anyways. I believe Jobs once stated that the average customer spent US$70. Not much of a lock-in, but that's a different thread (literally). [/sidebar]"
It wasn't my study. I merely know the people who conducted it and supervised it. I also saw the presentation on methodologies and results. I don't have the data and it isn't my place to release it. Regarding my characterization of one respondent as a zealot. It wasn't the legitimate request for data, it was the tone and numerous erroneous assumptions/rationalizations.
I think a great competitive feature would be support for audio streams (ie, Internet radio) via the built-in Wi-Fi.
The purpose is to gain as much marketshare as possible as quickly as possible at whatever cost necessary.
Oh yeah, that couldn't be more clear. The question I have is:
Steps 3 and 4 don't quite seem to be getting off the ground, here, whatever they are. They aren't "Now that we've got businesses locked into Office Suites, we'll make them upgrade." I "got" that. Apparently we'll see in the next five years -- over which time MS plans to blow another cool few billion trying to win over fickle gamers?
Apple's approach has been different with the iPod and iTunes. The business model is profitable, and the iTunes music store was a loss leader driving iPod sales. The gains came right up front, and they got their market share by shaping an emerging market because they'd shown they understood it better than the competition. Seems like an actual viable business strategy, not dot-com logic with a monopoly keeping it alive.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
You're right. It's in the "import" section. I'm pretty sure if I change that to the folder I store my music in, then re-import, the new .xml file will go where I want it. Guess I owe Apple an apology. Thanks for your help.
I don't care why you're posting AC
I have a 4th gen ipod and the only problem I ever had with mine was I had to softboot it becuase it hung. I have known a few people that have had problems with batteries but since I keep mine charged all the time with the car charger/transmiter its fine. Firehed I do have one thing to say about your comment on how people preference to use drag and drop. I'm not sure if you know but there actully is a drag and drop feature in iTunes you just have to go into the settings in iTunes select the iPod tab and check the box that says manage your own music. This feature is pretty use too if you do that you can hook up your iPod to any PC with iTunes and drag the music from that person's library to your little iPod icon.
Here are the features I'd like to see in an Ipod killer...
-80+ GB
-plays mp3, mpg, avi, jpg, bmp, and any other common audio/video/picture formats
-Has GPS with a 1GB database listing data found in a phone book and have the features of another GPS
-Can be used as a 2.4 Ghz walkie talkie with a 2 mile range
-Can be used as a phone
-builtin camera with flash and can shoot video
-RCA out jacks to pump video or audio to a TV or stereo
-AM/FM radio with DVR tech so you can record/rewind live audio
-802.11G capable with a builtin browser usable at hotspots
-builtin speakers
-replacable battery
-able to fit in a man's shirt pocket
-no more than $450
I've seen some items close but nothing that meets all these requirements.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
So...is this the 3rd or 4th time that Microsoft specifically has said they were releasing an iPod killer?
oh I'm not saying the iPod is good or bad, just that it's odd to continue getting a product (either by buying or through warrenty, though I've never had much luck with those) that has failed you that many times, it is a mass produced product so there will be faults in it (just like anything that is mass produced).
I've never owned one (since they cost to much for my tastes and the video ipod just doesn't appeal to me) but they do look sleek but like you said that shine could be to easy to scratch up (my TV stand looks to have the same kind of finish and it scratches from just looking at it).
Umm, no. As was pointed out about a hundred times elsewhere in this discussion, you're perfectly free not to use iTMS with the iPod. I have about 1700 songs on mine, and I think two of them came from iTMS (one of those was a free download). The rest are all MP3s. So how am I "locked in" again?
Sean
If it's dead, you killed it.
Everyone knows the average iPod owner buys very few songs from iTMS, yet it's what everyone -- from the music industry to governments -- obsesses over. I'm not saying people are wrong to obsess about future implications, but this causes them to overlook what's happening now. Of course, Microsoft may have figured this out by making Windows Media Player 11 comparable to iTunes as software as well.
was about a year ago - I'm sure it's all flashing lights and 20 confirmation screens now.
I think the message was along the lines of do you want to pair your ipod to his iTunes.
Seemingly you can get around this problem, by configuring your ipod not to auto-sync with the second copy of iTunes. This is dandy - apart from the fact iTunes only gives you the option screen where you can change this from the default after you've already connected your ipod...*holds head in hands*
1. How on earth is Apple keeping the prices down? How does having a (virtually) sole supplier help lower the prices? Can you give me an example of how a monopoly ever keeps prices down (unless the monopoly lowers prices in an effort to keep others coming into the market - which is pretty much what MS gets bashed for all the time).
2. Erm fine. I use iTunes on a PC, no reason you couldn't use MS whatever on your Mac (I know you're probably frothing at the mouth at this, but I can't see a reason why MS wouldn't want to let Mac users into this).
3. Erm.. 'ugly'? wtf
4. It's not illegal and they're not the downloadable music monopoly... apart from that spot on..
So basically what you're saying here is that you're full of shit. You have failed (many times) to provide any evidence whatsoever that this project ever took place.
... and no one's ever said that Apple makes decent hardware. /sarcasm
-On the internet, no one cares if you're a dog.-
I think that statement hits the nail on the head. Most people buy the iPod because it is cool.
Or maybe because they don't subscribe to the view that a longer billeted list of features on a product automatically means it's better.
You forgot the iPod also plays Apple Lossless Compression which can be converted to any other format.
Microsoft has been signing up companies to license it's WMA DRM for their players, getting all those companies to pay license fees, and agree to provide Microsoft with sample gear for 'PlaysForSure' testing, and also getting them to sign a license agreement to hold Microsoft harmless for any Intellectual Property violations (patents, design infringement, copyright, etc.)
Now they're going to go into direct competition with their licensees. This should go over well...
I'm sure the licensees all understand that they were really just preparing a market for Microsoft, and will quietly close up shop. Certainly, none of these companies such as Creative Labs has ever shown any tendency to cause trouble or litigate. I'm sure they can all simply rely on the US Justice Department's oversight and Microsoft's honoring the DOJ settlement and consent decree to ensure that Microsoft won't try to extend it's monopoly here.
Right...
Another group of companies are about to learn what happens when one 'partners' with Microsoft. Have a nice day, fellas.
Yeah, but they were business students. They were dorks. I won't pay for a damn radio in an iPod. I want my 10,000 songs so I don't have to listen to that crap.
For the love of... /. after all, there will be fanboys and haters) is the +5 mod...
Somebody is offering you something that is no cost to you, might be a real advantage, and will probably cost them... and your response is "hehehe, lets go hurt them for it!" WTF is wrong with you?!? Did a PlaysForSure player fall out of the sky and kill your grandmother or something? The only thing worse than the post itself (this is
Maybe I'm just disappointed; I had actually thought the old concept of getting +5 by blindly bashing the $hit out of MS was finally going away.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Yeah, but they were business students. They were dorks. I won't pay for a damn radio in an iPod. I want my 10,000 songs so I don't have to listen to that crap.
No, business students only conducted the survey. The students surveyed were from several local high schools. Prime Apple market segment.
I'm constantly amused by the assertion that people with iPods and iTunes are upset because they "can't transfer files because of DRM". It's poppycock. No, I can't buy an album from the Apple store and then email it out to all my friends in the original AAC format (that's what we're really talking about here, isn't it? I mean, if you have iTunes and an iPod, you can play your songs everywhere you can take them, according to *any* current license agreement; your computer, your iPod, and your CD player)... But iTunes and the Apple Music Store allow you to burn your songs to CD. Here's the deal. You buy songs, you burn them to cd using iTunes. When you're done, what does the little icon in the upper right corner say? Oh, yeah, "Import songs". Click on it. When it's done, guess what you have? DRM-free digital music. I leave it as an excercise for the reader to discern how to get iTunes to prefer mp3s; AAC produces higher quality at smaller filesize (google it, it's easy to find audiophile sources that explain their methodology), but you can't give AAC files to your buddies with SanDisk players and Zen players and iRiver players. Of course, it's illegal, anyway, to do so, but what the hell. I am no supporter of DRM, but let's not be coy; mp3 is 'preferred' because you can share them with anyone.
DRM is a non-issue with iTunes and iPod. Not so with many other DRM formats.
Thinking outside my Head
the same class of activity as bribing the hardware companies to put MSWxxx in every box sold?