"please explain your mind... how exactly is this a major player to.NET??"
C and even C++ are becoming tedious for some folks. While the control is nice (I appreciate it quite a bit), speed of programming is becoming an issue as it portability. With newer languages, the development process is becoming less and less.
This is where.NET and Java come in. Higher level, language interoperable (for Java, think CORBA -- Sun helped with that standard), etc. The "new language market" is a big competition ground and the next "language standard" (yes, ye olde folk, C will eventually be replaced;)) is being chosen..NET and Java seem to be the contenders. Please correct me if you see a flaw in my analysis, I haven't discussed this much.
--- "the only community getting any great benefit from an OSS java is the OSS community... surprise surprise."
I guess you're not an OSS programmer? Sun will get a great deal of help out of this one, depending on how workable the new code is with Sun's exising system (or whether Sun switches to this new codebase -- longshot, I know). Currently, Sun has the copyright, but Java is down to a commodity market -- Sun doesn't make much money off of it compared to their servers (akin to Windows vs Office).
Sun won't lose much by opening things up. Sun will, however, benefit from OSS folks going apeshiat and adding new features and speeding things up -- this is likely the only reason Netscape is still in some use at all. OSS has some serious potential, and adding that potential energy to Java might be enough to push it over the top.
Hope that explained it... I'd like to hear back if you have a different view.
SWT has done much of that. It wouldn't be an extreme feat to conver the SWT API to line up with AWT, I don't think (but I don't know too much about either, so take a grain of salt...).
You might consider SWT. It's an open source Java widget toolkit (GUI API) that sits on top of native system widgets. I just started developing with it, so I can't speak for much, but it seems to be quite fast and is pretty easy to implement.
A true monopoly with OSS doesn't really work. If Sun becomes too controlling, a fork occurs and Sun loses all of the help that they're getting through OSS support.
Past that, I don't think applying "monopoly" here works at all. With.NET, you have a system which depends 120% on Microsoft (until Mono is ready -- unfortunately, they'll always be playing catch-up). Their desktop running their compiler which compiles their language using their APIs which runs on their server operating system all of which costs thousands.
Java, on the other hand, runs on more OSes than I can count and is free to download, and you can combine Java with other languages using CORBA. If this becomes OSS, that pushes it even further away from ever being close to a monopoly.
In a realistic sense, I suppose you're right. I figure with enough public debate (discuss this over dinner folks...) and publicity, the public might actually push an audit of the FBI in Congress. I reckon, though, even with all the public awareness prowess of Slashdot and the people who read it, that it still wouldn't go far enough. People are too lazy and stupid to care about politics.
"Copyright violation != Stealing. The RIAA would be in a world of financial ruin of a significant percentage of the people downloading Mp3s were not buying music."
I suppose our definition of "copyright violation" differs. Please correct me if I am in the legal wrong for IANAL, but if you've bought a CD, downloading the tracks is legal by the fair use act. Maybe not by the DMCA (indirectly), but that's not a copyright violation, per se. Am I misunderstanding you?
--- "2.) It's hard for people to find moral objections to downloading MP3s when the RIAA won't even consider selling anything but over-priced, crap-filled albums."
True. I agree. I've downloaded a few myself and don't buy CDs. That said, downloading something without paying for it is still stealing, regardless of how moral it is. That said (meh), in this case, I still don't mind stealing from theifs.
--- "Yet, P2P isn't in the Game Industry's sights. Gee? Why is that? Maybe because they're treating customers fairly?"
While I agree with your analysis of why the gaming industry has loyal buyers (me being one of them), a large limitation falls to the sheer size of the game. Copyright protection doesn't help either, but can be overcome fairly easily.
If only games wouldn't come with copyright protection so I could use them at a LAN with my friends or install it on my second computer to play both head-to-head, I would be very happy, but I digress...
I know some Red Hat/Sun folks are reading this. As a person who is learning Java in his spare time, I really want to say thanks -- I pray that this goes through. Combining Java and OSS with Red Hat and Sun support, in my mind, is enough to kill.NET and set Linux up for good.
This might be the final kick in the ass that gives Linux the momentum to move on top.
Make the distinction between "I don't like what you're offering me so I'm going somewhere else" and "I don't like your prices so I'm going to steal from you."
It sounds like you fear how the bill might be misused, not the bill itself. Go after the misusers, not the bill. It's more difficult, but the idea here is not at fault; it's the action.
KKK ideas are not bad in themselves; they're only words. Acting on those words, however, is wrong. Make the distinction.
P2P programs are just a tool. Using them to download other people's software is wrong*. Prosecute the users of the tool, not the tool itself. * = Now how wrong that is in comparison to the actions of the copyright holders is another matter.
The list goes on and on.
The Feds and companies go after p2p programs and the like because it's the easy way out. Let's not take the same path. This bill sounds good to me -- it's just asking that they enforce the law. I submit that we just need to get them to enforce it correctly.
This is simple. People are protesting your actions. What is the best way to make their protest meaningless and to make yourself look like the good-guy who is in control.?
Embrace them. Give them drinks. Laugh with them and join the party.
Embrace, love, and then crush your enemy. This is business as usual for scum^H^H^H^Hpoliticians, lawyers and businessmen.
I'm willing to bet that several SCO employees were doing it out of true heart, but Darl?
This guy is suing everyone and their mother for billions. Even if his claims were valid, he's basically claiming that all UNIX IP is his.
Read this. Darl is 'hip and down with OSS' and he makes himself look like a victim. When I read it, I started to say, "Hmm, maybe this guy is the victim."
Then I remembered the damages and claims he's making and the FUD he's spreading.
Some normal SCO employees might mean well, but as for Darl and the rest, either they're insane and think they're the victims, or they're playing a masterful political game.
To be fair, I'm young as well (I'm 20). Minus a year for college, I've been working as a programmer at my company since the summer of 2000 (with a lot of recreational programming before that).
For the last year, I've been working as a "Software Analyst". I get bug reports that our setup folks can't solve and I solve them. This often requires a lot of code hunting. We've got everything from extremely junky Fortran 77 (no whitespace, no variable names over 6 characters -- and Fortran at that) for our legacy app, and some CGI programs written in spaghetti-code C (with a good mix of HTML templating and javascript thrown in)! Even better, this all runs on HP-UX. Needless to say, I get plenty of practice fielding bad code and weird issues. =)
Our development team is comprised of 12 developers total, and only in the last 4 years has it grown past a four man team. The company is now around 50 heads total, and a QA department is in sight (the Software Analysts will eventually be QA).
Anyway, our newer products are all based on open source tools. PostgreSQL, Apache, Linux, Perl, Mason, ORBit, etc. The source code, mailing lists, IRC, etc. and the open attitude have made things a breeze, not to mention these tools have saved us a very large sum of money in licensing costs.
This is quite possibly the exception to the rule, I have no problem admitting that. Somehow, though, from what I hear of other companies, this isn't all too uncommon.
"Your "untold number of eyes" is nearly indistinguishable from "0" unless your open source project is widely used. Sure, this may hold for the Linux kernel, or Apache, or even Mozilla, but what about all of the open source projects on SourceForge?"
While this argument does hold merit, I do think you would be surprised at the amount of looking over that utilities get. Ever hear of SDMS? Probably not. Not many folks have, I would reckon. I did some work with this project almost two years ago trying to implement PostgreSQL support so our company could use the utility internally. I found a few bugs and sent back patches as well as my changes to incorporate Postgres support. I can't speak as to the bug changes, but some time later Postgres support was added to the project.
This is but one example, but I think it's fair to say that, although "millions and jillions of eyes are looking!!!11!" isn't correct, there are more eyes looking than you would imagine. There are only so many categories of software, and each have a good number of users.
"Sounds to me like you're working with an inadequate number of testers, or at least an inadequate unit testing plan for developers."
At the risk of sounding like an ass, have you or are you now working as a programmer? Testers are a valuable commodity, but are rarely used in the manner that they should be. The company that I work for is a good example, though we're attempting to move in that direction. Even with that said, this point is generally moot as one can argue that "more heads are better than none."
I have to concur with this. My day job is working as a "Software Analyst" -- in short, I get problem reports that our setup folks can't figure out and I solve them. This usually requires a lot of digging through code.
Just this week we've had a major problem with one of our customers: IE is continuously crashing (an internal IE problem). It doesn't help that the customer isn't very good at giving us detailed information about who it happens to when, but what makes it even worse is the cryptic nature of the error information from IE and the fact that we have no access to source code.
On the other hand, much of our newer products are built on top of open source tools (which saves us an extreme amount of time). The few problems that we've had have been relatively easy to fix due to the more open nature of source and documentation with the OSS tools and services that we use.
Re:If MS were to use such strategies, would anyone
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Platform Evangelism
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· Score: 3, Informative
Don't confuse negative moderation with disagreement. Many pro-MS comments get modded down not because they are pro-MS, but because they are poorly founded and/or lack basic logic.
I'm a Linux user myself, and I've modded down my share of pro-MS comments, but on the basis that they either 1) have no clue what they're talking about, or 2) are highly logic impaired. I'm talking about basic logic, not judgements on opinions.
There are many pro-MS comments that I agree with. Unlike some of the zealots (most who will get over it, eventually), I understand that Windows has its place and advocate Windows to anyone who doesn't: 1) Dislike Microsoft solutions 2) Want to explore their computer 3) Want to configure everything in detail
It's amazing the leeway you can get by hassling managers.
"I want to return this." "You can't." "Who is your supervisor?"... "I want to return this." "Sorry sir, you can't." "Who manages this store?".... "I want to return this." "I'm terribly sorry sir, you can't." "Who owns this store?"...call him/her at home... "I want to return this."
Repeat ad naseum.
I realize that this won't work, but often managers will play the game to make you happy, or at the least, you'll annoy the hell out of them. If any substantial number of people do this (say a dozen a week or more per, say, Best Buy), the manager is likely to say something to his boss, etc.
It'll take a lot over the board to get this noticed, as the "brass" is pretty detached from the hassles a store manager has to go through, but trends will be noticed.
Just to set things straight, this is what I was trying to say in point #1; it just has to be taken in direct context with the parent post. That has been my experience exactly.
I'm actually missing the old Gentoo sources that I found to be... well, awesome. Even on my laptop (p2 333, 160mb pc133, 6.4gig 5400rpm [I think), I could not hardly slow it down. The desktop and applications responded quickly and everything was perky, even when doing a full system update. I'm using ck-sources now, and everything works out well, but heavy swap activity can bring things to a crawl for a second. =\
OT: If anyone has any recommendations on another set of kernel sources, I'd appreciate any suggestions.:)
Re:This has been postet a lot of times, but still.
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Gentoo Offers PPC LiveCDs
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· Score: 2, Informative
I completely understand that this is a joke, but in fair defense directed towards the folks who don't know any different:
1) Many new Gentoo users take up to a week to install it for the first time. That said, many of the kernel sources Gentoo offers (such as Red Hat sources) are patched to the point that ramming your CPU to 100% doesn't slow your box down. The only thing that can make my system lag is heavy disk/swap access.
2) In regards to testing packages, Red Hat, Debian, etc. have been proven to be quite stable. However, in fairness, I'm on the "unstable" tree on Gentoo and I can't remember the last time I had an app crash.
In short, if you're a geek, don't mind a few days downtime for installation and can deal with hand configuring your box, you might give Gentoo a try. The installation process is very well documented, but can be difficult if you run into problems. Once installed, though, Gentoo is the easiest distro I've seen in regards to maintenance and administration.
It's not for everyone, but some will love it.
Ignore the zealots, most of them are just excited, they'll grow out of it in time (I'm speaking from personal experience here;) ).
I've found that the biggest problem for new users is installing software. AbiWord, Gnumeric, Galeon and Evolution are all easy enough to use, and anyone with a little regular experience with a computer can use these without noticing much of a difference.
The biggest problem is that they don't know what software to use for what or how to install it unless someone tells them. Windows has the advantage that most folks can click a setup.exe listed on the web, and hit "open at remote location" or whatever it is in IE, click next a few times and get an icon on the desktop. Linux users, on the other hand, download the file and place it manually (not difficult, but many folks don't seem to understand this concept), then run RPM on it or somesuch. I haven't seen Nautilus install RPMs with a double-click (as of yet), although I don't use RPM based systems anymore, so I can't say.
Package management systems have come a long way in Linux, and the last time I used Red Carpet (circa RH 7.3's release), it was fine for myself. However, my folks at home won't have a clue when they're wondering what program to use to graphically manage zip files.
The second biggest problem is integration: Linux isn't there yet. I won't go into it more than this: there have been many advances in this area, and Linux is doing well here, but the process from file download to editing to emailing out a modified version in another format... this process isn't streamlined.
That said... as long as someone knows someone who knows their way around Linux, anyone can use it, and without much hassle (if any at all). I set my folks up with RH 7.3 with Ximian extensions and a few basic programs and I rarely hear anything from them. My mom keeps commenting on how much she loves all the different screensavers; "It's like it's doing something different every time I walk in the room." She find virtual desktops helpful, and she has no problem with any of the programs installed.
Linux is a long way from anyone being able to use it. Product support is a big hurdle, but Linux tends to develop its own solutions to that (AbiWord, Gnumeric, Evolution). The biggest hurdle, in my opinion, is streamlining the system so the user can think more about what they're doing rather than how to do it.
Note that this doesn't mean "Make it work like Windows a la My Computer," but I digress...
"Something you have copyright on isn't yours. It's something you have been granted a temporary monopoly on the commercial exploitation on as an incentive from the government for commercial support to advance science, art and culture and to foster innovation."
You're thinking patent/ip law. Copyright covers works that you create, e.g., you write a book, people can't copy it and sell it. If you want to go so far to say that you have a temporary monopoly over a book that you wrote, I guess you could put it that way, not that it makes a whole lot of sense.
I should add, I am not implying that Linux is often much more difficult to fix than using Windows Update. I've never had problems with up2date, and speaking as how other package management systems are much better IMO (portage, apt-get, etc.), that's saying quite a bit about Linux.
Anyone who is admining a server and can't understand anything more complex than "start->windowsUpdate->download->reboot" shouldn't be admining a server.
The rebooting issue pulls up another point: very few Linux holes reported involve the kernel. Rebooting mission critical servers to fix a hole in a sub-program is inane. It's just bad programming to restart the entire system when one minor level needs a change.
I think both of you are playing up the difficulty on either side.
In my experience, Windows behaves rather preditably, regardless of version and software. And in my experience, Linux is the same. In addition, most Linux users who need support (e.g. know less than the support database, er, people) are going to be using Red Hat, Mandrake, or SuSe. Between these two points, the "thousands of Linux variants" argument holds very little water.
Well, the interesting part of that is that you're not far off, as I'm assuming you realize. =P
Quake 3. Doom3. Neverwinter Nights. Return to Castle Wolfenstein. UT 2003. Many major games are running natively on Linux and those that aren't can often be run via WineX with little fuss.
And when it comes to applications, almost all general tasks can be done natively on Linux, and the not-so-mundane tasks such as video editing, audio editing, CAD, etc., are making there way to Linux. Sometime in the next 5 years I think we'll see a serious push towards end-user applications running on Linux. Imagine how much better the rest of it will be then. =)
"People learned, a long time ago, to never, never ever mess with window setings unless you're willing to risk an unstable system"
I disagree when it comes to Windows pre-2000. I can't recall changing any settings in 9x or 3.1 that would seriously mess up my system. However, in 2000, I found that disabling one service can disallow me to re-enable it simply because the properties window no longer comes up. The entire services program (and several others, IIRC) refused to work afterwards.
Now before you MS trolls start foaming at the mouth in a reply, I'll note that this was after a fresh install. I repeated this little experiment twice; the problem happened only after I disabled this one service (Remote Procedure Call service or somesuch). I have no problem with the ability to mess up my own system through the admin account; I'm happy that Windows now lets me. What I'm dissapointed about is the lack of an easy fix (since you can't open the properties window to re-enable the service) and the lack of an error message. This is something Microsoft is notorious for.
Back on the original topic, I agree about your Linux point as well. Without logging onto root, the system will remain stable and a user's settings can be rebuilt relatively easily. When you go playing around as root, it's pretty easy to mess up your system. But I like it that way. The difference here is that Linux will often tell you what's wrong or at least give you enough of a clue to find a fix on google in under 5 minutes.
Slashdot Mirror
"please explain your mind... how exactly is this a major player to .NET??"
.NET and Java come in. Higher level, language interoperable (for Java, think CORBA -- Sun helped with that standard), etc. The "new language market" is a big competition ground and the next "language standard" (yes, ye olde folk, C will eventually be replaced ;)) is being chosen. .NET and Java seem to be the contenders. Please correct me if you see a flaw in my analysis, I haven't discussed this much.
C and even C++ are becoming tedious for some folks. While the control is nice (I appreciate it quite a bit), speed of programming is becoming an issue as it portability. With newer languages, the development process is becoming less and less.
This is where
---
"the only community getting any great benefit from an OSS java is the OSS community... surprise surprise."
I guess you're not an OSS programmer? Sun will get a great deal of help out of this one, depending on how workable the new code is with Sun's exising system (or whether Sun switches to this new codebase -- longshot, I know). Currently, Sun has the copyright, but Java is down to a commodity market -- Sun doesn't make much money off of it compared to their servers (akin to Windows vs Office).
Sun won't lose much by opening things up. Sun will, however, benefit from OSS folks going apeshiat and adding new features and speeding things up -- this is likely the only reason Netscape is still in some use at all. OSS has some serious potential, and adding that potential energy to Java might be enough to push it over the top.
Hope that explained it... I'd like to hear back if you have a different view.
er... wish I had some mod points.
I couldn't have said it better.
SWT has done much of that. It wouldn't be an extreme feat to conver the SWT API to line up with AWT, I don't think (but I don't know too much about either, so take a grain of salt...).
More links here.
You might consider SWT. It's an open source Java widget toolkit (GUI API) that sits on top of native system widgets. I just started developing with it, so I can't speak for much, but it seems to be quite fast and is pretty easy to implement.
Some info:
The Eclipse project (of which SWT is a part of)
SWT Guide (good intro to SWT)
SWT API Specification
SWT Articles (many regarding topics internal to the API) -- scroll down to SWT
A true monopoly with OSS doesn't really work. If Sun becomes too controlling, a fork occurs and Sun loses all of the help that they're getting through OSS support.
.NET, you have a system which depends 120% on Microsoft (until Mono is ready -- unfortunately, they'll always be playing catch-up). Their desktop running their compiler which compiles their language using their APIs which runs on their server operating system all of which costs thousands.
Past that, I don't think applying "monopoly" here works at all. With
Java, on the other hand, runs on more OSes than I can count and is free to download, and you can combine Java with other languages using CORBA. If this becomes OSS, that pushes it even further away from ever being close to a monopoly.
In a realistic sense, I suppose you're right. I figure with enough public debate (discuss this over dinner folks...) and publicity, the public might actually push an audit of the FBI in Congress. I reckon, though, even with all the public awareness prowess of Slashdot and the people who read it, that it still wouldn't go far enough. People are too lazy and stupid to care about politics.
;)
Folks -- raise your kids better.
"Copyright violation != Stealing. The RIAA would be in a world of financial ruin of a significant percentage of the people downloading Mp3s were not buying music."
I suppose our definition of "copyright violation" differs. Please correct me if I am in the legal wrong for IANAL, but if you've bought a CD, downloading the tracks is legal by the fair use act. Maybe not by the DMCA (indirectly), but that's not a copyright violation, per se. Am I misunderstanding you?
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"2.) It's hard for people to find moral objections to downloading MP3s when the RIAA won't even consider selling anything but over-priced, crap-filled albums."
True. I agree. I've downloaded a few myself and don't buy CDs. That said, downloading something without paying for it is still stealing, regardless of how moral it is. That said (meh), in this case, I still don't mind stealing from theifs.
---
"Yet, P2P isn't in the Game Industry's sights. Gee? Why is that? Maybe because they're treating customers fairly?"
While I agree with your analysis of why the gaming industry has loyal buyers (me being one of them), a large limitation falls to the sheer size of the game. Copyright protection doesn't help either, but can be overcome fairly easily.
If only games wouldn't come with copyright protection so I could use them at a LAN with my friends or install it on my second computer to play both head-to-head, I would be very happy, but I digress...
I know some Red Hat/Sun folks are reading this. As a person who is learning Java in his spare time, I really want to say thanks -- I pray that this goes through. Combining Java and OSS with Red Hat and Sun support, in my mind, is enough to kill .NET and set Linux up for good.
This might be the final kick in the ass that gives Linux the momentum to move on top.
Make the distinction between "I don't like what you're offering me so I'm going somewhere else" and "I don't like your prices so I'm going to steal from you."
It sounds like you fear how the bill might be misused, not the bill itself. Go after the misusers, not the bill. It's more difficult, but the idea here is not at fault; it's the action.
KKK ideas are not bad in themselves; they're only words. Acting on those words, however, is wrong. Make the distinction.
P2P programs are just a tool. Using them to download other people's software is wrong*. Prosecute the users of the tool, not the tool itself.
* = Now how wrong that is in comparison to the actions of the copyright holders is another matter.
The list goes on and on.
The Feds and companies go after p2p programs and the like because it's the easy way out. Let's not take the same path. This bill sounds good to me -- it's just asking that they enforce the law. I submit that we just need to get them to enforce it correctly.
This is simple. People are protesting your actions. What is the best way to make their protest meaningless and to make yourself look like the good-guy who is in control.?
Embrace them.
Give them drinks.
Laugh with them and join the party.
Embrace, love, and then crush your enemy.
This is business as usual for scum^H^H^H^Hpoliticians, lawyers and businessmen.
I'm willing to bet that several SCO employees were doing it out of true heart, but Darl?
This guy is suing everyone and their mother for billions. Even if his claims were valid, he's basically claiming that all UNIX IP is his.
Read this. Darl is 'hip and down with OSS' and he makes himself look like a victim. When I read it, I started to say, "Hmm, maybe this guy is the victim."
Then I remembered the damages and claims he's making and the FUD he's spreading.
Some normal SCO employees might mean well, but as for Darl and the rest, either they're insane and think they're the victims, or they're playing a masterful political game.
To be fair, I'm young as well (I'm 20). Minus a year for college, I've been working as a programmer at my company since the summer of 2000 (with a lot of recreational programming before that).
For the last year, I've been working as a "Software Analyst". I get bug reports that our setup folks can't solve and I solve them. This often requires a lot of code hunting. We've got everything from extremely junky Fortran 77 (no whitespace, no variable names over 6 characters -- and Fortran at that) for our legacy app, and some CGI programs written in spaghetti-code C (with a good mix of HTML templating and javascript thrown in)! Even better, this all runs on HP-UX. Needless to say, I get plenty of practice fielding bad code and weird issues. =)
Our development team is comprised of 12 developers total, and only in the last 4 years has it grown past a four man team. The company is now around 50 heads total, and a QA department is in sight (the Software Analysts will eventually be QA).
Anyway, our newer products are all based on open source tools. PostgreSQL, Apache, Linux, Perl, Mason, ORBit, etc. The source code, mailing lists, IRC, etc. and the open attitude have made things a breeze, not to mention these tools have saved us a very large sum of money in licensing costs.
This is quite possibly the exception to the rule, I have no problem admitting that. Somehow, though, from what I hear of other companies, this isn't all too uncommon.
Cheers
"Your "untold number of eyes" is nearly indistinguishable from "0" unless your open source project is widely used. Sure, this may hold for the Linux kernel, or Apache, or even Mozilla, but what about all of the open source projects on SourceForge?"
While this argument does hold merit, I do think you would be surprised at the amount of looking over that utilities get. Ever hear of SDMS? Probably not. Not many folks have, I would reckon. I did some work with this project almost two years ago trying to implement PostgreSQL support so our company could use the utility internally. I found a few bugs and sent back patches as well as my changes to incorporate Postgres support. I can't speak as to the bug changes, but some time later Postgres support was added to the project.
This is but one example, but I think it's fair to say that, although "millions and jillions of eyes are looking!!!11!" isn't correct, there are more eyes looking than you would imagine. There are only so many categories of software, and each have a good number of users.
"Sounds to me like you're working with an inadequate number of testers, or at least an inadequate unit testing plan for developers."
At the risk of sounding like an ass, have you or are you now working as a programmer? Testers are a valuable commodity, but are rarely used in the manner that they should be. The company that I work for is a good example, though we're attempting to move in that direction.
Even with that said, this point is generally moot as one can argue that "more heads are better than none."
I have to concur with this. My day job is working as a "Software Analyst" -- in short, I get problem reports that our setup folks can't figure out and I solve them. This usually requires a lot of digging through code.
Just this week we've had a major problem with one of our customers: IE is continuously crashing (an internal IE problem). It doesn't help that the customer isn't very good at giving us detailed information about who it happens to when, but what makes it even worse is the cryptic nature of the error information from IE and the fact that we have no access to source code.
On the other hand, much of our newer products are built on top of open source tools (which saves us an extreme amount of time). The few problems that we've had have been relatively easy to fix due to the more open nature of source and documentation with the OSS tools and services that we use.
Don't confuse negative moderation with disagreement. Many pro-MS comments get modded down not because they are pro-MS, but because they are poorly founded and/or lack basic logic.
I'm a Linux user myself, and I've modded down my share of pro-MS comments, but on the basis that they either 1) have no clue what they're talking about, or 2) are highly logic impaired. I'm talking about basic logic, not judgements on opinions.
There are many pro-MS comments that I agree with. Unlike some of the zealots (most who will get over it, eventually), I understand that Windows has its place and advocate Windows to anyone who doesn't:
1) Dislike Microsoft solutions
2) Want to explore their computer
3) Want to configure everything in detail
It's amazing the leeway you can get by hassling managers.
... .... ...call him/her at home...
"I want to return this."
"You can't."
"Who is your supervisor?"
"I want to return this."
"Sorry sir, you can't."
"Who manages this store?"
"I want to return this."
"I'm terribly sorry sir, you can't."
"Who owns this store?"
"I want to return this."
Repeat ad naseum.
I realize that this won't work, but often managers will play the game to make you happy, or at the least, you'll annoy the hell out of them. If any substantial number of people do this (say a dozen a week or more per, say, Best Buy), the manager is likely to say something to his boss, etc.
It'll take a lot over the board to get this noticed, as the "brass" is pretty detached from the hassles a store manager has to go through, but trends will be noticed.
Just to set things straight, this is what I was trying to say in point #1; it just has to be taken in direct context with the parent post. That has been my experience exactly.
:)
I'm actually missing the old Gentoo sources that I found to be... well, awesome. Even on my laptop (p2 333, 160mb pc133, 6.4gig 5400rpm [I think), I could not hardly slow it down. The desktop and applications responded quickly and everything was perky, even when doing a full system update. I'm using ck-sources now, and everything works out well, but heavy swap activity can bring things to a crawl for a second. =\
OT: If anyone has any recommendations on another set of kernel sources, I'd appreciate any suggestions.
I completely understand that this is a joke, but in fair defense directed towards the folks who don't know any different:
;) ).
1) Many new Gentoo users take up to a week to install it for the first time. That said, many of the kernel sources Gentoo offers (such as Red Hat sources) are patched to the point that ramming your CPU to 100% doesn't slow your box down. The only thing that can make my system lag is heavy disk/swap access.
2) In regards to testing packages, Red Hat, Debian, etc. have been proven to be quite stable. However, in fairness, I'm on the "unstable" tree on Gentoo and I can't remember the last time I had an app crash.
In short, if you're a geek, don't mind a few days downtime for installation and can deal with hand configuring your box, you might give Gentoo a try. The installation process is very well documented, but can be difficult if you run into problems. Once installed, though, Gentoo is the easiest distro I've seen in regards to maintenance and administration.
It's not for everyone, but some will love it.
Ignore the zealots, most of them are just excited, they'll grow out of it in time (I'm speaking from personal experience here
I've found that the biggest problem for new users is installing software. AbiWord, Gnumeric, Galeon and Evolution are all easy enough to use, and anyone with a little regular experience with a computer can use these without noticing much of a difference.
The biggest problem is that they don't know what software to use for what or how to install it unless someone tells them. Windows has the advantage that most folks can click a setup.exe listed on the web, and hit "open at remote location" or whatever it is in IE, click next a few times and get an icon on the desktop. Linux users, on the other hand, download the file and place it manually (not difficult, but many folks don't seem to understand this concept), then run RPM on it or somesuch. I haven't seen Nautilus install RPMs with a double-click (as of yet), although I don't use RPM based systems anymore, so I can't say.
Package management systems have come a long way in Linux, and the last time I used Red Carpet (circa RH 7.3's release), it was fine for myself. However, my folks at home won't have a clue when they're wondering what program to use to graphically manage zip files.
The second biggest problem is integration: Linux isn't there yet. I won't go into it more than this: there have been many advances in this area, and Linux is doing well here, but the process from file download to editing to emailing out a modified version in another format... this process isn't streamlined.
That said... as long as someone knows someone who knows their way around Linux, anyone can use it, and without much hassle (if any at all). I set my folks up with RH 7.3 with Ximian extensions and a few basic programs and I rarely hear anything from them. My mom keeps commenting on how much she loves all the different screensavers; "It's like it's doing something different every time I walk in the room." She find virtual desktops helpful, and she has no problem with any of the programs installed.
Linux is a long way from anyone being able to use it. Product support is a big hurdle, but Linux tends to develop its own solutions to that (AbiWord, Gnumeric, Evolution). The biggest hurdle, in my opinion, is streamlining the system so the user can think more about what they're doing rather than how to do it.
Note that this doesn't mean "Make it work like Windows a la My Computer," but I digress...
"Something you have copyright on isn't yours. It's something you have been granted a temporary monopoly on the commercial exploitation on as an incentive from the government for commercial support to advance science, art and culture and to foster innovation."
You're thinking patent/ip law. Copyright covers works that you create, e.g., you write a book, people can't copy it and sell it. If you want to go so far to say that you have a temporary monopoly over a book that you wrote, I guess you could put it that way, not that it makes a whole lot of sense.
I should add, I am not implying that Linux is often much more difficult to fix than using Windows Update. I've never had problems with up2date, and speaking as how other package management systems are much better IMO (portage, apt-get, etc.), that's saying quite a bit about Linux.
Anyone who is admining a server and can't understand anything more complex than "start->windowsUpdate->download->reboot" shouldn't be admining a server.
The rebooting issue pulls up another point: very few Linux holes reported involve the kernel. Rebooting mission critical servers to fix a hole in a sub-program is inane. It's just bad programming to restart the entire system when one minor level needs a change.
I think both of you are playing up the difficulty on either side.
In my experience, Windows behaves rather preditably, regardless of version and software. And in my experience, Linux is the same. In addition, most Linux users who need support (e.g. know less than the support database, er, people) are going to be using Red Hat, Mandrake, or SuSe. Between these two points, the "thousands of Linux variants" argument holds very little water.
Well, the interesting part of that is that you're not far off, as I'm assuming you realize. =P
Quake 3. Doom3. Neverwinter Nights. Return to Castle Wolfenstein. UT 2003. Many major games are running natively on Linux and those that aren't can often be run via WineX with little fuss.
And when it comes to applications, almost all general tasks can be done natively on Linux, and the not-so-mundane tasks such as video editing, audio editing, CAD, etc., are making there way to Linux. Sometime in the next 5 years I think we'll see a serious push towards end-user applications running on Linux. Imagine how much better the rest of it will be then. =)
"People learned, a long time ago, to never, never ever mess with window setings unless you're willing to risk an unstable system"
I disagree when it comes to Windows pre-2000. I can't recall changing any settings in 9x or 3.1 that would seriously mess up my system. However, in 2000, I found that disabling one service can disallow me to re-enable it simply because the properties window no longer comes up. The entire services program (and several others, IIRC) refused to work afterwards.
Now before you MS trolls start foaming at the mouth in a reply, I'll note that this was after a fresh install. I repeated this little experiment twice; the problem happened only after I disabled this one service (Remote Procedure Call service or somesuch). I have no problem with the ability to mess up my own system through the admin account; I'm happy that Windows now lets me. What I'm dissapointed about is the lack of an easy fix (since you can't open the properties window to re-enable the service) and the lack of an error message. This is something Microsoft is notorious for.
Back on the original topic, I agree about your Linux point as well. Without logging onto root, the system will remain stable and a user's settings can be rebuilt relatively easily. When you go playing around as root, it's pretty easy to mess up your system. But I like it that way. The difference here is that Linux will often tell you what's wrong or at least give you enough of a clue to find a fix on google in under 5 minutes.