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More Incompatible DVDs and CDs Coming Your Way
wwwssabbsdotcom writes " More DRM is coming to DVD and CD shelves in the future. Looks like more incompatible discs for players around the world. Rip-proof and self-destructing seems to be the latest DRM craze."
So quit grousing and don't buy em.
I'd rather have cheap products that sometimes don't work on 10 year old players (and protects rights for a creator of art) than expensive ones that can be pirated but work on all players.
Hello.
Edible DVDs
More plastic to add to the AOL CD landfills...
These guys are going to kill their own business. Their copy-protection techniques will only increase the motivation to seek the content through obscure channels. When the "legitimate" version is less functional and more expensive than the "black market version", guess who's going to lose?
"I filter at +6, and have yet to miss out on an important comment." (#822545)
Some kid will crack it in a week.
Don't drop the soap, Tommy!
so I won't be able to rip straight off the dvd(i'm talking about the audio dvd's), but what is going to prevent me from just sending the sound straight into my computer, as opposed to a speaker, and saving it from there?
In the beginning I was free.
then I became a pleb, and my master controlled me.
then I because a citizen and the government controlled me.
Now I'm a consumer, and all my rights are under control.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
It's not like there are *that* many good movies. I can live without a copy of Hollywood Blockbuster 69; I've already got copies of Spaceballs, Escape from New York, The Matrix, Mission Impossible, and Army of Darkness.
I'll worry when they put DRM on the next Michael Moorcock novel.
So if I buy the "Mission Impossible" DVD, I better heed the warning that says "This message will self destruct in 5 seconds" ?
Trolling is a art,
OK, I buy a cd - or license one, evidently. Why can't I make a copy to play and one for my truck and keep the original safe in its jewel case? How long before this is cracked anyway?
but, of course, that could be why governments around the world are bringing in laws against tampering with electrical devices... god help us
john
got a pair of Weapons of Male Distraction? Show 'em off in style
All I Want For Christmas Is My Constitutional Rights
If they make self-destructing DVDs, then I will be *certain* to rip it first thing. I listen to my music almost exclusively on my computer. I've got any number of CDs that I've never "played", I just ran it through CDex, and listen to the mp3s. I will consider any attempts to make "rip-proof" formats as special challenge.
I suspect that anyone who lacks the skills to do the above themselves would then be that much more likely to download a copy that someone else ripped.
DVD's like the extended edition of "Fellowship of the Ring" already won't play on legal set-top hardware like the XBox because it doesn't get recognized as a DVD (while playing just fine in 3 other set-top units.)
As far as I'm concerned, the industry is already shipping pre-destructed material. Shoddy plotlines. Crappy acting, B-stories with A-budgets. "Adaptations" of classics. Bah.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
If you want something new and different, you can't also ask for it to be compatible. Break out of your preconceptions and help today's technology re-invent itself as tomorrow's.
"You'll just have to trust us. Even though you can't play the movie, it was really, really, really good." - MPAA
Word Axis
Yeah, that's what they said about region-coding. But now look at all the laissez-faire attitude adopted by every other Chinese DVD player manufacturer in regards to region coding and/or Macromedia.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
I did - when I bought the friggin' CD!
I know - after all, everybody who uses MP3's and their iPod stole the music, right? Everybody who clicks the little "Rip" button on their computer to store their music CD collection so they can listen to any song, when they want, only got it from some Gnutella site, correct? Any movie in DiVX format isn't there so you can have a media player storing backups of your movies onto your computer so you can watch them when you want and keep your DVD's shiny and new for all time - no, you must be planning on letting the rest of the world download the movies illegally.
OK. I'm calm. My personal response has been simple: don't buy things in this format. Tell others about the format and what to watch out for (like "Does it have the official CD logo on it?"). When I talk to government officials, telling them "You know, if somebody wants to make a self-destructing DVD/unrippable CD - more power to them, that's they're right. But they damn well better be putting a logo on their product that says so in advance so I can choose to reward or punish them with my own buying power."
Yeah, I use the iTunes store - sure, it has DRM, but doesn't go outrageously overboard, because at least it gets the idea that I buy the music, I own it - so if I want to burn it to CD or transfer it to 2 different iPods so my wife and I can listen to our music in the car, that's my right to do so.
But did "rental" music services ever get my dime? Nope - and see what's happening to them. I predict they'll be gone in another 5 years (except for the last holdouts sponsored by major corporations who won't see the light of day - like how the Minidisk finally exited stage left for 99% of the music consumers, the 3DO vanished, and like the original DIVX standard did).
Yeah - spin another one, folks. Try, try again until you buy the clue.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I have songs from back in the napster days, and the funny thing is how the stuff from Kazaa tends to not self destruct.
On another note, this stuff makes me feel good about the iTunes music store strategy and who knows, in the internet2 future might we have the iMovie *Movie* Store?
>> AOL Time Warner, released the new Steely Dan album "Everything Must Go" on CD and DVD Audio, the latter being an encrypted, "rip-proof" format.
Now, I hope someone can help me out on this. Is the purpose of DVD Audio for 5.1+ surround sound? Or do they mostly have extra content? Can OOG or WMA [or any thing else] handle these extra channels?
When modding "Informative", please make sure it both has a source and IS actually informative.
And this is going to stop the chinese blackmarket from copying this stuff how? Oh yeah, just like all their other anti-piracy techniques have.... wtf was I think
I already stopped purchasing CDs from RIAA members because I don't have a single working CD player that is unable to read CD-ROMs. Thus, if I were to buy a CD, I can't be sure that I'll be able to play it. It's just not worth the time and effort to deal with deliberately defective products.
The technology that makes this possible -- known as digital rights management, or DRM -- will forever change the way we consume media and software, experts believe.
Either they forget to ask the "experts" here on Slashdot, or they neglected to mention that "consuming" means buying more blank CD-R and DVD+/-R media and burning the night oil "hacking".
Seriously, though, I have worked with many clients that are concerned about people pirating their data. But after I explain that pretty much nothing can stop the most diligent person, they can swallow it. Stopping the curious Joe Moe from making a copy makes sense - it's cheaper for him to run down to Wally World and buy another copy. But noooo, let's frustrate Mr. Moe by making sure that neither him or his friends can play the latest media without the latest hardware. Arrrgh...
Boy, that Digital Radio Mondiale sure gets around.
Score 5: Funny.
All it will do is result in more boycotts of DRM crippled discs and consumer anger directed at the media companies. I really don't know how long its going to take before they realize this. Killing fair use is not the answer.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
This is what I think that will be their next move. It will be something like this: "This book is a nuclear bomb that will be destroyed in 2 minutes :-)"
I've already stopped buying CDs and if I find pirated copies of the titles I want I'll buy them instead of the "original" ones, at least that copies can be played anywhere.
Oh well. All the good shit still gets released on vinyl, anyway.
hang brain.
I don't think it can be done, and neither does the article apparently. It has it in the title, but there in no information within.
Wasn't there a ./ post sometime recently that demonstrated a way to bypass some of these feature by using a different piece of software in you DVD player (If Sanyo)?
thing for ANTIDRM is word of mouth :)
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
Why is so much put into self-distructing DVDs? It only takes one pass to rip it. Once you rip it, you can read it any amount of times off your hard drive. The only way to stop piracy is a zero-use DVD...once you buy it, it blows up in your car on the way home.
"Men lie."
"Yeah, about sleeping with other women, but never about bioluminescent plankton."
-Dan Brown
You know, I considered myself a pretty moral person -- sure, I've got a few mp3s, but I try my best to purchase albums of artists I've enjoyed. I have never downloaded a full-length movie.
If this is where the future is going, that just might change. I usually play DVDs on my PC, and if I bring one home from Blockbuster and it won't play because the MPAA assumes I'm a pirate, I will feel 100% justified in seeking out a rip of that movie in XViD or SVCD (or DVDR) and watching it.
They're digging their own grave, but then again, maybe that's what they want to do. More invasive media -> More piracy -> More lobbying power to create strict DMCA-like laws.
Either way, you're going to be seeing a lot of people downloading movies who normally didn't. And it's just going to give all the people who do download movies all the more reason.
Thanks for assuming I'm a pirate, MPAA. You might just've made me one.
+ Donald Gunth
+ Email: dgunth@quicktek.net
"Caffeine is the greatest lubricant ever created." -ESR
Exquisitely well said.
Mom says my
Heck... I might pay for that!
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
As it means I won't have to return to the store that I rented them from and give them back, they can just be binned instead (Although what impact this will have on the environment must be concidered of course).
As long as they are the same (or lower) price, I don't see a problem.
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
"Sun Microsystems said this week it plans to roll out new software to protect copyrighted content stored on mobile phones and smart cards. "
That was a bit vauge. And didn't have anything to do with CDs or DVDs. The rest was pretty much fluff. And the winner for most amusing paragraph was this:
"Ravaged by piracy, movie studios and recording labels have been fitting new CD and DVD releases with layers of computer code with the aim of preventing or limiting users' ability to copy, or "rip," them onto a blank disc and trade online."
OOoo! Layers of computer code! Sounds so mysterious! And someone was Ravaged!!
Summary: Unfortunately I read the whole article, but maybe I can save you the trouble.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Next, didn't the software industry try these type of copy protection things a decade ago? If I recall, they gave up because they turned out to be a joke...the people who really wanted to break them could (and did), yet the others (read: honest people) suffered because of them. I guess it does prove that if you can't/won't learn from the mistakes of the past then you're destined to repeat them...
I really hate this. I bought a "Low end" ($100)DVD player 3 months ago to replace the nice DVD player that got nailed by lightning. The DVD player is only 3 months old and I've had quite a few DVD's that just plain out don't work on it. :-/ And once you tear off the plastic, the stores won't take them back anymore. This also goes for almost any DVD I rent. I think like 2 of the last 20 DVD's I've rented have actually played all the way through the movie without totally fscking up like 1/2 way through and ruining the movie experience. I've been renting VHS lately... I'm quite happy using our "I got this on clearance for $10" VCR. :-/ I really can't offord to buy a new $150+ DVD player every 3 months when these retards change their copy protection. Hey MPAA.... BITE ME! :-/
Can all fish swim?
I am looking at a very expensive plasma HDTV home theatre system in the not too distant future, but I have omitted any company (are you listening Sony?) with their fingers deeply into the DRM pie from the bidding, and reccommend others do the same. When you shop for any high end A/V gear, make sure you mention lack of DRM as a critical concern to the salesman. It only takes just a few lost high end sales before they clue in. Remember the tax software fiasco? We can force them to back down if we hurt them in the pocket boot.
My rights don't need management.
A boycott is beginning to look more and more attractive all the time. Celine Dion? Shakira? Steely Dan? Who needs'em. Steely Dan were cool, what, 20 years ago? Celina and Shakira never were cool and never will be.
I think I can buy all my music from independent labels from now on and not even the slightest hint of regret.
I personally despise the recent trend towards DRM protected media. How the hell am I supposed to make a backup of my CD or DVD? We all know that they designed the damn things to be so scratched up, that within a year they become unusuable ;-)
Seriously tho, I vote with my dollars and urge you to do the same. The solution is simple - Don't buy it!. I refuse the purchase a CD or DVD that I am not able to make a backup copy of.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
The CNN article contains a box of "Related Links" - one of them a Business 2.0 article about the Intuit TurboTax fiasco, another about Metallica offering MP3s on their website. Wonder if they're trying to send a message?
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Ravaged by piracy, movie studios and recording labels have been fitting new CD and DVD releases with layers of computer code with the aim of preventing or limiting users' ability to copy, or "rip," them onto a blank disc and trade online
Right, because as we all know CDs and DVDs are indestructible and never scratch or degrade. There's no other possible reason anyone would ever want or need a copy of the music or movie they paid $25 for nope. Heck just buy it again right? Prop up the ol' economy, it's the patriotic thing to do. Fair use anyone? Hello?
As far as audio is concerned, I think the masses would be perfectly happy with a high-quality analog "rip", converted back into a digital format without any DRM.
Just two stories ago, some people were commenting that MS has bowed to public pressure. The best way to voice your opinion is to not buy any protected music or movies. Ensure that the media firms know why, lest they attribute the lost sales to piracy.
Trolling is a art,
to download pirated copy. The fools are leaving customer satisfaction out of the equation...
It seems that nobody has told the media executives what is a "screener".
:-)
And with tripods, high-def DV cameras, and increasingly-better sound recording equipment, they're likely to improve in quality.
This holds for music as well, although "microphoner" or "subwooferer" is not as sexy as a name.
So, as other have posted, "as long as we can see/hear it, we can record it"...
The ENIAC Demo Competition
Don't throw away those backups, nor the machinery that you backed them up on.
Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
I'm buying fewer and fewer DVDs and CDs. It ain't because they're copy-protected (usually, you can rip that, or if that's impossible, your friendly neighbor has a sound studio and you can rip them easily.
It's because the content sucks. Profusely. I haven't been in the cinema for now something like 6 months. I buy relatively few CDs, most of the Heavy Metal and Death Metal bands started producing lousy music. There's little left to buy. Metallica? Became "Selloutica". The latest Sepultura stuff sucks as well.
Now if I can't play a DVD in my laptop, I simply won't buy it. The test is thanks to the fact that my machine is luggable, doable at my preferred store and quickly accepted as final judgement.
Maybe in Winter, we'll have some better stuff to buy, but before, revenues won't go up in the media industry.
If I can't rip the CDs/DVDs I buy, well then I won't buy them. That is something I consider a feature, because who wants to carry around a thousand CDs. I guess that's a load of though, I was actually planning to pay money for things, but now I can use that money for tuition :).
Rip-proof and self-destructing seems to be the latest DRM craze.
So now we'll be forced to create backups seeing as they destroy themselves? Once they're cracked, it's all over.
Comparing Windows and Linux is not a good analogy. They're two totally different things. If Linux apps were SUPPOSED to run on Windows or the other way around out of the box (Please dont talk about Wine...), sure..
Self Destructing DVDs will simply not be bought unless the pricing ratio is well worth it. If rental places can offer then for $1 a rental that lasts 2 days, sure, thats something most people can afford. But if the price is static, then people wont bother. Everyone is used to buying DVDs for $15-20 that they can keep forever. Change that, and people wont bother buying. People just wont "give in" unless you give back, and with the DVD industry, the only way they can possibly give more is by lowering the price. Added features? Already got em.
Non-Destructing DVD and Audio has been mainstream too long for anything to sway it. If they dont work in certain players, people will avoid buying them, or will just find a pirated version that they are certain 100% will work on their system. People take the path of least resistance. This is one the companies will have to learn about.
Yep, being "confused" is probably the last thing on the consumers mind when they are dealing with the "bugs" of the DRM system and the added restrictions on use. Heh.
Or when they are in the throws of being bent over and treated ummmm...roughly by the MPAA/RIAA, the consumer is probably more thinking about how they had to "pay for the date" and are still getting screwed, literally and figuratively.
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
Can any of you who work in a corporate environment actually envision people accepting doc format where people had to specify who could read, print or forward what? People would hotkey the "allow all" option or set it as a default and life will go on. Anyone who is going to go to the trouble of placing restrictions on their content can already do it now. M$ is MUCH more worried about DRM than their clients.
I work for an auditing firm and this nonsense would been seen for exactly what it is, one more layer of administrivia preventing me from doing what I'm paid to do. I actaully audit other companies complaince to their privacy policies (among other things) and I can tell you that this "important new feature" is going to be viewed as an obstacle 99% of the time. And just wait for the first time some idiot CFO accidentally locks himself out of his own files...
Gosh they sure complain a lot. It seems like the RIAA/MPAA's big problem is those damn consumers. Always wanting to actually use what they paid for. Tsk Tsk. So demanding.
If they could just not sell to consumers...
AOL Time Warner, released the new Steely Dan album "Everything Must Go" on CD and DVD Audio, the latter being an encrypted, "rip-proof" format.
How sad. Fagan and Becker used to be trend-setters with their music; now they're being used to prop up a failing business model.
Reeling in the Years...
I think the better question is. Since we're boycotting the RIAA/MPAA because we don't like their policies. Why is the "Can't play it on..., and CD go BOOM" even an issue?
Have they already forgotten the lessons of the old Divx players? No one wanted an inferior, crippled product. The market already spoke. I have a hard time imagining they'll get it "right" this time.
Digital piracy will always exist. For every mousetrap, someone will build a better mouse. So why should we law-abiding citizens have to pay the price? If I want a DVD or CD, I'm going to buy it. Period.
----------
Something cleverAll I want is free music/movies. Until the corporations can give me that I'm not buying another CD/DVD!
--I'm not talking about dance lessons. I'm talking about putting a brick through the other guy's windshield.-
It matters because this is another expensive boondogle. It won't work. It will never work.
The problem is NOT the technology and it never was. The problem is the draconian nature of the entertainment industry and the rediculous prices they charge.
As for protecting the rights of the artists and content creators, we already have laws that do that.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Microsoft, which will equip its Office 2003 software suite with user controls designating who can print, copy or forward data.
Thats brilliant! they havnt even got around to Palladiumising hardware but they are gonna release this in software form anyway! I think this will change the world for the better - unsuspecting people will trust the security of their documents to this, i will be able to take advantage;) Hmm i wonder when the crack will be out...
Anyway i hope all these new million dollar rip-proof technologies wont be to hard to rip, good luck everyone in circumnavigating them with $1000 home computers.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
The Enhanced CD format is software based. The new Police CD is just unplayable. Along with the Blondie release, and the Stones compilation.
I bought 35 CDs in the last years, including a Zydeco cover of Beatles hits (just great), and a bunch of other jazz stuff at the New Orleans Jazz Festival.
The new formats mean the end of purchases, but not the end of collecting (hahahahaha). Take that, greedsters.
Ineffective indeed.
I thought âoerip-proofâ was pretty much done when some genius figured out it could be superceded with a marker? And whatâ(TM)s to prevent me from just ripping a self-destructing media (that concept I still find amusing) once, and keeping the digital content for an extended period? IMHO, these companies should be spending more of their money on trying to produce better music than this feeble attempt to protect what they're turning out.
If you don't like DRM, don't buy the product. If you really like good art, find some locally. Believe it or not, California is not the mother lode of all art. There is great music, theatre, etc., being created all over the US and the world. The more you patronize local artists, the less Hollywierd profits from your patronage. The more $$ local artists receive from you, the better equipment they can purchase. The better the equipment (such as for recording) the easier it is for you to enjoy their art outside the pub/bar/city park concert.
In short, the best way to fight RIAA and MPAA is to simply stop eating the shit they are labeling as art.
Additionally, the more money that is spent within the local community for artists, the more money remains in the community, thus helping local economies. I mean, who the fuck believes that sending money to California is gonna help people eat in the heartland? I certainly don't. I'd rather help out when a band passes the hat in the local pub than spend blood money for some Hollywood hack art/music that I will actually listen to about twice before converting it to a dust-collection unit.
Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
Notable advantages:
finite time in the landfill (compare AOL CDs)
hence, management of user making copies
fewer greenhouse gases produced
hence, can initially charge the cornsumer more
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
I wrote a letter to the record label after I ran into the first CD (Radiohead's Hail to the Thief) that wouldn't play in the player I wanted, and have now stopped buying any CDs from that label (EMI). In fact, only 1 of the computers I tried it in even could read the data files that allowed you to install the audio player. Since said players are only available for windows and some versions of Apple operating systems, and only installable if you have admin on your computer (making it less than ideal in an office environment) I am allowed under Canadian "fair dealing" rights (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/38266.html#rid- 38379) to copy from audio CD to "a recording medium, regardless of its material form, onto which a sound recording may be reproduced and that is ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose..". Ie, a computer hard drive, or another CD. This is similar to the fair use rights in the United States.
Unless everyone writes a letter at the least, then it's only a matter of time before every CD will work only in stereos and on machines which have specific versions of software like Windows.
I should add that the CD in question would play on Windows only if you installed "upgrades" to windows media player... I cancelled that, and am ripping it with a line in feed tonight.
You need to have your XBox looked at. Maybe there's dust on the lens. My copy works just fine on my XBox. And my friend's XBox.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
they dont give a crap
Don't want the government to control you? Leave society and become a hermit...but you lose lots of practical benefits, like convenience stores, electricity, the internet, public sanitation systems, health insurance, etc.
However, when there are few or no lost benefits, people won't hesitate to use alternatives. Same thing applies to DRM...the more they clamp down, the more consumers squeeze through their fingers and start using consumer-friendly alternatives like ogg and mp3.
It's a funny cycle...raw CD audio isn't portable enough, so they create MP3s, leading to rampant file sharing and eventually Napster, leading to RIAA's unholy crusade for DRM, leading more people to use MP3...it will only end when consumers have no control over data. A bit late for that...
Here's a thought.
What is to stop a consumer from purchasing a self-destructing DVD, then watching it, ripping it, whatever... Then, once it has self-destructed returning it to the retailer complaining that it was defective, wouldn't play on their system, and that they want a new copy or their money back?
Sounds like Netflix is doomed with this new Free Rental program.
For years and years the technology industry has been shipping shoddy half-baked products and generating enormous profits.
The consumer electronics industry, on the other hand, has bee shipping simple reliable products like the walkman and CD players just as long.
I think what has happened here is that some bright young MBA studied the two industries and discovered that the only tangible differentiating factor between them is that high tech products are often broken out of the box, or shortly thereafter.
The next step was to investigate consumer electronics products that could be taught to "break" just like high tech. DVD and CD media were obviously selected as initial products, and the DRM schemes we see today are the result.
Soon, our bright young MBA friend will discover that crappy products don't lead to increased revenue. He will then learn the latest tech-industry skill: how to collect unemployment!
...Finally a technology they're comfortable with.
As far as I'm concerned, the industry is already shipping pre-destructed material. Shoddy plotlines. Crappy acting, B-stories with A-budgets. "Adaptations" of classics. Bah.
:-(
Good.
Maybe more and more people will slowly wake up and realize that the whole "entertainment industry" is rotting and dying, and instead of numbing their minds sitting in front of the boob tube, wasting their lives away filling their brains with knowledge-pollution, they need to instead spend their idle time pursuing worthwhile hobbies, projects, sports, adventures, etc and actually doing something bigger, better and more important with their lives...
Fat chance that is likely to happen any time soon though
Next up, the special dvd players will have built-in scanners to count the number of eyes in a 30-ft arc in front of it and charge accordingly...
The old record store would have a poster with about a hudred different types of cartidges and none of them would match then one you just broke. If you did find the one you were looking for, they never had it in stock and you would have to go on a hunt. The result was the record store didn't sell you any more records till you got a new needle for your turntable.
You would think the RIAA would understand that. It was one of the reasons they liked the idea of CDs.
"The only way to stop piracy is a zero-use DVD...once you buy it, it blows up in your car on the way home."
Customer:Uh honey is The peach Pits a good...BOOM!
Clerk:Cleanup in aisle 12.
Meanwhile, Warner Music, a division of CNN's parent company AOL Time Warner, released the new Steely Dan album "Everything Must Go" on CD and DVD Audio, the latter being an encrypted, "rip-proof" format.
I don't think having Steely Dan cut a CD counts as rip-proof... I mean, come on; who wants a Steely Dan album?
This is one more reason why I am a geek.
I have 5 macs at my house and one pc.
I have two turntables, a mixer and loud speakers. : ]
I'm glad I can listen to ProtonRadio, check the playlists of the mixes I like, find and buy the buy vinyl, record it to my mac and put it on my internal server.
I'm glad because more of the money MUST go to the artist AND I can buy and remix the songs I actually like!
I don't have to worry about incompatable dvds and cds.
Screw RIAA. Spend a little more money to create your own purchase, playback/recording system. You'll be glad you did and you can still support the artists.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
iTunes, iMovies (don't tell me that's not feasible... don't tell me I have to care that YOU'RE using a dial-up...), iGames, iApps!
The rest is already history.
Note that I use i* to make sure you get what i mean, not because I love Apple so much.
Piracy is caused by open formats?! And this guy is a VP of a technology R&D unit?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I am a Sonyphile from the 1970s and Sony have never let me down until just recently.
I wanted to buy a Norah Jones CD but was told that it was recorded on one of the CDs that weren't recorded to the CD format and that killed Macs if played on them. My wife uses Mac so I checked and had it confirmed.
Now no Sony product enters our house be it camera, CD or movie. They are good products but they are no longer trustworthy the way that they were.
Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
Consumer electronics companies such as Sony and Nokia have stepped into the mix too, installing DRM systems into new hi-fi systems and hand-held devices to ensure copyrighted materials aren't reproduced and transferred from gadget to gadget without consumers paying for it.
What ever happened to a little thing called "fair use"? If I want to make a copy of a cd for use in my car, why shouldn't I be able to? If I want to rip a cd to mp3s to play on my HTPC, why shouldn't I be able to?
Oh, sorry... I forgot that mp3s automatically lead to piracy, as does cd copying. Yeah, I guess that all the times I've scratched up a copy of a cd that I own using it in my car cd changer makes me a pirate.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
I'd rather have cheap products that sometimes don't work on 10 year old players (and protects rights for a creator of art) than expensive ones that can be pirated but work on all players.
How is this relevant to the article.
What the article is about is expensive products that don't work on old players, and doesn't protect the rights of the creator.
You have the worst of all worlds.
It's not hard to envision a new generation of digital monks, decrypting or transcribing data from long-dead DRM technologies back to open formats. Because without something like them, this "copy protected" stuff is going to be "future protected" forever - and no one will know the artists had ever created it at all.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
Where does that leave me? I've just spent $25 on a movie that I can't watch. I can't return it. Hell, chances are the license I had to agree to won't allow me to sell it. So here's the problem....
The movie was advertised as being a DVD. My player was advertised as a DVD player. DVD is (from what I understand) a fairly open standard. By advertising something as being standards compliant that really isn't, would that not constitant fraud, or at the least deceptive advertising?
If I remember correctly, didn't the owner of the CD trademark/patent threaten to label DRM'd CD's as not being CD's b/c they didnt' conform to the standards? Should that not happen with DVD's?
Vote with you dollars and your voices. If you buy a DVD that is not compatible, either don't buy it, or take it back and bitch loudly. Make sure other customers can hear you. Basically, make an ass of yourself so that the manager has to give you your money back to shut you up.
Yes, I know I'm rambling.
Now, if that makes sense to anyone, could you please explain it to me? I think I've confused myself.
I think you're missing your grammar.
Trend setting? You must be thinking of Maddy Prior.
Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
"You get what you pay for."
Why do you blame them because you bought a piece of crap DVD player? Sounds like the one at fault here is you. Take a little responcibility for your actions and admit you screwed the pooch.
When you do decide to buy working DVD player, do a little research first. Find out which units are crap BEFORE you waste your money on them. It doesn't take much time and it will save you money.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
If they actually go through with this, and make even more intrusive CD's and DVD's that I cannot make backups of, I simply will not buy them.
I'll own it, that's for sure. I'll just wait for some pissed off person to post it to usenet or one of the many file sharing services at my disposal.
Hell, I may even buy an iPod, just so I can copy songs to as many of my devices as possible.
I tried, but unfortunatly, I don't even own the ground I walk on, I'd be quite happy to start up a commune if it wasn't so expensive to do so and get taxed just for living.
,or less than 100 in some parts of the world, you could be free without being a hermit.
Thousands of years ago
The comment initially came from the language used in the story.
"The technology that makes this possible -- known as digital rights management, or DRM -- will forever change the way we CONSUME media and software, experts believe. "
M use requires nothing to be created or destroyed so I don't consume.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
But what if you bought a higher end component, such the pioneer DVL-919 combo LD/DVD player?
Then, would you still that old equipment should be pushed in to obsolescence?
And if so, then what about the DVD format in general. Should we abondon the technology for something that has the rights management built in, so those millions of DVD's sold so far become worthless plastic coasters?
No.
did no one else laugh at this?
with the aim of preventing or limiting users' ability to copy, or "rip," them
Step 1: Stop people from ripping CDs/DVDs.
Step 2: Detect soundcards and gfx cards in computers and don't play the media if detected.
Step 3: Stop producing CDs and DVDs, just charge people anyways.
Step 4: Make $$$
Well, alright, slightly exadurated (hope I spelt that word right), but still, it shows the stupidity in some of these things.
Now, I don't mind copy protection and I do understand the need for it, but seriously, isn't there a limit. We are getting passed the point where these things are usable all together.
As far as the wild speculation about self-destructing DVDs and CDs, you either didn't read the article, or you are sensationalizing (as was done in the headline). Nowhere in the article were self-destructing DVDs or CDs mentioned, EVER! They were talking about downloadable music files that could only be played a few times before rendering themselves useless.
The RIAA still hasn't come out with anything worth trying yet, but stop distorting the facts just for the sake of making the RIAA look more Evil(tm).
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
I'm not up to speed on self-destructing CDs and DVDs, but I think that's a bad description. After all, they don't melt like in Mission Impossible. A better term would be one-time-use like cameras. Of course that name would unmask their real purpose and make consumers less likely to buy them.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
I'm all up for more people getting the snip, then maybe I could be free again: too many people!!!
More discs that look like CDs and DVDs but aren't, will be coming soon.
simon
home page
Does the american public care that our fair use laws are being trampled before our eyes? (or any other country). As far as i knew you could make a backup copy of anything you buy, so as not to loose the content and have to buy it again incase something happens (ie kids, scratches, dog, etc). And what is this about 1 use then it self destructs.
Oh you can watch the matrix once for $20. But your wife, kids and dog can't. YOu have to pay an aditional $20 for each ($10 for kids).
I mean come on. When did buying content become renting content. Where is this going to stop. Pretty soon you'll have to put a $5.00 bill into a radio to listen to it for 10 minutes.
I for one am all for sites such as www.gamecopyworld.com , games have been trying this DRM tech for so long, and i just head over to there to get my legitimate copy.
I can't believe that it's come down to this. Maybe if they didn't charge an arm and leg for music/movies (well first week of realease not too bad for movies) there wouldn't be so much privacy. And let's hope some judges out there will start ruling in favor of consumer rights.
Just my 2 cents.
-Dar
I'd rather not pay good money to be treated as a criminal, have my fair use rights unilaterally taken away and lose the ability to listen to music I buy on my computer.
I'm afraid the joke is still on the RIAA, no matter what happens.
After all, if their claims are ocrrect and these technologies make piracy impossible, who can they blame for their piss-poor sales figures?.
DRM technologies may make some new Justin Timberlake or Britney Spears CD uncopiable, but all the tech in the world can't stop it being shite....
While being lovely-looking and region-free, don't like multi-speed fast-forward or rewind on my DVD player. :-(
- Come up with a solution to the problem
- Solution doesn't work
- Invest MORE money into solution #1
- Solution STILL doesn't work
- Invest yet MORE money into solution #1
- repeat
Why is it so difficult to see that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to make copy protection that will NOT be broken? All this does is inconvenience the average Joe and yet the songs will STILL be on the internet just as many times as they were before.The entertainment industry needs to learn these two principles:
1) If you give consumers a good product at a REASONABLE price (I don't call $18-20 for a CD reasonable) they WILL buy it. It is so much less of a hassle to buy a CD for $10 than to download and burn lower quality (MP3) music with no artwork.
2) If you keep crying wolf, no one will listen. I recently read about the MPAA complaining about the Matrix Reloaded being online... The fuckin movie has made like a BILLION dollars already (http://us.imdb.com/Business?0234215).
One last rant... Millions of people use P2P and download MP3s, yet albums still manage to go multi-platinum. Hmmm, I wonder how that happens when so many people are pirates? I keep seeing the RIAA equating declining CD sales to piracy. They must be right, afterall, it couldn't have anything to do with the decline in the world's economy STRANGELY occurring at the same time?
When it only takes a few days or weeks for someone to crack the protection scheme. I say let them keep putting out copy-protection schemes. Then laugh when their money goes down the drain. Either the copy-protection schemes will survive, or there won't be any copy-protection schemes. (Although I'm not a fan of warezing games... I'd just like to point that out.)
This story was on Yahoo yesterday. Nice to see the readers and editors are keeping with the times!
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Over here in quaint old Europe, the UFC (Union Fédérale des Consommateurs) just sued EMI Music France, Warner Music France, Universal Pictures and the two largest retail chains over this kind of thing. They claim that:
/t
1) DRM violates the consumers' right to make a personal copy of CD/DVD media which they have bought.
2) In Europe, blank recordable digital media are subject to a "tax" which gets paid to copyright associations (yes, that's right, even if you're gonna use it to back up your pc...) and that lables/copyright holders just can't have it both ways.
3) Some of these copy-protected CDs won't play in car stereos, older CD players, etc etc
here's the link but it's in french.
#!/usr/bin/english
Nothing better than the self-destruction of my lil' sisters entire MTV-crap-up-and-down-sampler collection including Britney Spears, N-Sync, and all these groups with their crap music and fsck-me-dances in their videos.
Thank you RIAA!
But besides I'm pretty happy that Michelangelos paintings won't self-destruct. You know? Because there is art that COUNTS out there. And I don't wan't to see it suffering from digital death.
I'd rather have cheap products that sometimes don't work on 10 year old players (and protects rights for a creator of art) than expensive ones that can be pirated but work on all players.
The assumption here is that companies price their products to recoup costs and make a modest profit. If this assumption were true, then your logic would be sound because, without piracy, companies could then achieve that modest profit point by selling more units at lower prices.
But that's now how it works.
Companies price their products to recoup costs and to maximize profits. A widget doesn't cost $23.99 because that was a number that the company decided would make it a modest profit. A widget costs $23.99 because that's exactly what the market will bear. If the company tries to sell widgets for $25.99 then people won't buy as many of their widgets, and profits will go down. If the company tries to price the widgets at $21.99, they might get more customers, but the increase in sales will not be enough to make up for the lost revenue of the lower price (or perhaps the increased production costs of trying to meet the increased demand).So it is with the entertainment industry. It's simple capitalism, economics, and marketting. If all piracy were to stop, the companies wouldn't lower prices, they would just make more money.
I'll end this post with a partial syllogism:
1. Theoretically, if all piracy were to stop, then demand for CD's (for example) would increase.
2. As demand increases, so does price.
3. Therefore ...
I'll let you reach your own conclusion. Extra credit if you bring me an apple. :)
Even if you don't buy every disk from the local "pirate," you should try to buy a few now and then.
Remember "piracy" is the only guarantee you have of:
1. Always being able to get a copy of a disk you want. Say the powers that be decide to suppress some disk for some reason? Copyright allows them to censor something no matter whether it is important poltical speech or not.
2. Being able to get unedited copies of disks. This is similar to the above. Just because Hollywood decided Eyes Wide Shut was to risque without censorship for Americans doesn't mean you have to live with that.
3. Being able to get copies of disks that won't self destruct and will work in the broadest variety players.
The only ethical thing to do is to support organized crime in their effort to provide you with disks that you actually own and don't still belong to the companies you've purchased them from after you purchased them.
It's about time people stop wasting time watching TV, it really cuts into the amount of time you can waste each day reading slashdot.
Worthwhile hobbies? Adventures?
/.?
You mean, like, posting on
What do you have against the boob tube :).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Put every song from every CD and every .mov and .mpg and every piece of software and every file on it. I also bought a DVD burner to back the thing up.
I did it NOW because I still can. As for the rest. I listen to the radio occasionally and its all the same old crap anyway but with different ads. I threw out the TV years ago. Someday somebody'll tell me about the excellent Swis crafsmanship he saw on the "Rotary Nose-Hair Trimmer" network and I'll feel sure I did the right thing.
If only I didn't get a twinge of pity and utter contempt now and then for twho are still "Sucking on the Glass Teat" (With thanks to Harlan Ellison for that lovely concept.)
No I HAVE a mouth and I will SCREAM!!!
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Personally, I don't really get the popularity of the CD. They are useful for installing software and "media" files when it is the only way to get the data. However, I find a Removable Hard Drive Bay is a dramatically better technology. Praise be to God (or Allah or Linus or whomever) for Linux for solutions to ignore copy protection on optical media!!!
Hard Drives have
Greater storage capacity, in less physical space.
Very competative price vs CD media
Dramatically better reliability and performance
Security of being able to transport large amounts of data easily. For example, so at night you dont leave important files laying around office
Personally, I avoid CD's and prefer HD's as data cartidges and file transfers by LAN and Internet.
HenryJamesFeltus.com
Don't allow copyright to be used when DRM protection is used. Its as simple as that.
There are parallels to patents and trade secrets.
If I choose to make my idea a trade secret then its protected forever unless someone breaks it, but if I want to use patent protection, then I have to disclose it publicly.
Public disclosure, in exchange for legal protection.
The same should be applied to DRM & Copyright. if I choose to DRM my protect, fine, good, but then its not in the public domain, so it can't be protected by copyright.
You want copyright protection, then you have to give *your* side of the bargain too, and put it in an unprotected format, so that it is available when the copyright expires. How can I know if you will be around next year, let alone in 120 years when your copyright expires? I can't, so if you won't put it into public domain, then you can't get copyright protection.
Thats the solution.
but the market will see to it that this does not succeed.
Ok, poll. Hands up, all of you who willing buy self-destructing media?
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
I've seen a lot of comments about checking for the official "CD" logo before buying, so you can know ahead of time that it's going to be a proper disc.
However, here's a better idea - check your store's return policy first. If the return policy takes open CDs for a refund (if you have cause), then buy whatever CDs you want.. and if you can't play them, return the stupid things! The publisher takes more of a financial hit that way, because they have to deal with the repackaging costs and such. Far better than simply not buying, if you're trying to make a point financially with these big companies.
You mean hamburgers aren't made from ham? The horror!
I have mod points right now... too bad I can't use them here to give you a +1 Funny.
This "joke" may have been funny the first time around, but come on...this is what, the 5 billionth time that someone has said "Celine Dion can't play? This is a bad thing?"
Har har. Try "I didn't do it" the next time, it might get more of a chuckle. Or maybe "where's the beef?"
The way I see it DRM solutions are going to be self-policing. The ones that are incompatible with most of the hardware are going to have users returning the items or refusing to buy more items with the same DRM solution. The ones that do work just give crackers something new to work on. This is a rare point in history where companies are trying to make their product less user friendly. I predict that companies who adopt strict DRM solutions are going to have a harder time competing with the smaller organizations that do not. Once someone supplies artists with a method of getting reimbursed for their efforts that cuts out the overhead that is evident in the motion picture and recording industries the point will be moot. The only thing that can change this outcome is a combination of a monopoly and the "Super DMCA" or similar legislation that is being pushed in some states.
since everybody and his dog will copy the discs immediately after purchase, in order make a copy that will actually be useable without the hassle and that won't self erase.
So, the main point of this is probably to improve blank CDR sales...
Oh well, what the hell...
When you can download an album or a song for .99cents a track and burn them without issue, and without going to the store, what benifit do you have going down to Sam Goody if the CD's they sell you there are DRM?
No, this will drive people to use iTunes even more.
"it's only a matter of time before every CD will work only in stereos and on machines which have specific versions of software like Windows."
How about we key the media to the player so that YOUR CD will ONLY play on YOUR CD player. Its 128 bit encrypted at the time of purchase and if your hardware breaks, kiss your collection goodbye.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
mount /dev/scd0 /mnt/tmp /mnt/tmp/* image /mnt/tmp /dev/scd0=nodestruct.iso
mkdir image
cp -R
umount
mkisofs -dvd-video -udf -o nodestruct.iso image
growisofs -dvd-compat -Z
I bought Hail To The Thief and it was a perfectly normal CD.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
...FAT16 filesystem.
I write and have recently taken up painting. My wife is a graphic designer.
If you make it then you are the copyright holder. If you make it for someone else you are still the copyright holder but the person who contracted you can use your work as the contract states. If you are employed then your work belongs to your employer.
I would imagine that most musical artists hold the copyright to their own music. If they wrote the music then they own it twice.
That said, the companies are big and know how to steamroll.
Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
As far as music goes, as long as there's a wire carrying a signal to a speaker, ripping music will be do-able. As far as that goes, as long as there are regular TV's (i.e. we don't require *special* DRM TVs) which can display the video images, DVD's will be rippable too. For that matter, as long as we're using a CRT or any of the current LCD or Plasma displays, we could break open the box to get to the signal. It may be harder and require some soldering and what-not, but it WILL be do-able.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
>Maybe more and more people will slowly wake up and realize that the ...
> whole "entertainment industry" is rotting and dying...
> they need to instead spend their idle time pursuing worthwhile
> hobbies, projects, sports, adventures, etc
I agree wholeheartedly. What would be best, IMHO, is if people re-learned how to entertain each other through local theatre and musical performance groups.
Similar to baseball in the US during the strike. A lot of fans actually went out and _played_ the game, instead of being stadium potatoes. People who couldn't/didn't play could still watch the local teams to get their baseball fix.
Once upon a time, there was no recording industry. To enjoy music, people played instruments and sang with and to each other. Professional musicians were more in demand, since you couldn't use a recording as a replacement for live music. If this all came back, I don't think it would be particularly tragic for anyone but the recording industry (and for them, it would be tragic in the Greek sense).
But most serious or alternative work that I've come across concentrates on the film and not the fluff and fits just fine
"Under the spreading chestnut tree, I sold you and you sold me."
Include in that list of hobbies playing music, as well as listening to live performances of local artists. I have to wonder whether the 20th and early 21st centuries will eventually be seen as an aberration from the normal view of music as something you actively participate in, rather than passively listen to.
To swim, only to die at the edge.
Say it with me now folks: Analog Hole. And as the quality of recordings and video goes, up, the extra DAD conversion will be barely noticable.
Actually, the creative aspects of that 'industry' are doing just fine, but are hampered by a multi-gazillion-dollar corporation-controlled financing and distribution network. People with money don't want to lose that money, they think people are sheep, they keep funding Nightmare on Elm St. XXVII and the like.
If we as their audience stop attending movies and buying recordings they release, then something will happen. Until that point, when the huge numbers of people stop thinking that Top 40 Radio is all there is, when they stop heading in to see Dumb and Dumberer and the latest Rocky franchise, then they will continue reaping huge profits and controlling what we see and hear.
If it really bothers you, do a couple of things:
- Go see local bands, and support them directly.
- Watch movies at your local art-movie house, made by someone other than Sony, Fox, etc.
- Write to your elected representatives with your concerns about copyright and ownership. Be clear, intelligent, and specific.
Karl Schroeder has some interesting ideas on something called the Rights Economy in Permanence. Amazon carries it.
If we cannot step our little feet out of the basket, then we will just have to enjoy things as the trip gets warmer and warmer.
Smart move. Start selling damaged good in a bad economy when people have less discretionary income to begin with to almost completely ensure they don't spend thier money buying your pieces of shit cripplewares. Hmm, 2 broken CDs for 40 dollars or any other way of spending that money? I know which will win. I hope all the investors pull out faster than these pricks can say TurboTaxDRM.
by the way, I didn't read the article and I posted this off the cuff without reading any other comments. And I'm gonna be anonymous coward because it's Tuesday.
i'm dying to ask american slashdotters a drm question. in canada, the new radiohead album is clearly labeled "copy-protected." of course, i refuse to buy it. would a trip to america get me a real radiohead cd?
dvds form and content can handle drm. commercial music cds cannot. they need their every bit of space for music, not drm. what's more, making mixes has been part of mainstream music culture for at least twenty years. consumers cannot be expected to give up this ability without a fight.
well said -nt-
As an amatuer musician myself, I'm now quite ashamed that I forgot to put that in the list.
The TBC will strip out the DRM / Macrovision bullshit, and replace it that track with blank information, giving you a completely stable video signal. done.
Now: DRM'd audio CDs?
This is harder and it will take some serious programming chops, but it's pretty much a permanent solution to the whole damn thing:
write a program that takes the digital audio data just prior to it going to the DAC. This will require someone reverse engineering a part of the audio driver in the OS du jour. Once you have that datastream, you dupe it: half go to the DAC (As expected, so this way, if the DAC has some kind of checksum going, it won't notice) the other dupe gets saved directly to the hard drive as an MP3 / OGG / WAV / AIF / whatever floats your boat file format.
best,
RR
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Never, never, never confuse price and cost. The two are independant. The price of a product is what the consumer will pay for a product. The cost is the amount of money it took to produce the product. Right now, the consumer is willing to pay more for music on CD than on tape. That is why the price for CDs is higher. The fact that it costs less to produce a CD is irrelevant. The consumer is willing to pay the higher price.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Having followed the progression of DRM from non-existent to testing to production, and assuming the next step of ubiquity, I say thank you for your draconian measures. What you assert is protecting your business model has alientated this consumer from the equation and the results are quite enjoyable.
I used to see movies all the time in theatres, three to four a week. I enjoyed the bad stories as well as the amazing effects; the cinema was a hobby I did not mind spending a couple hundred dollars a month on. Simultaneously, the captains of your industry made two fatal errors: a bad, original story is more seductive than a formulaic reprise of a plot done over and over already. Secondly, the noise over DRM, the jostlings of Tivo, and lobbying governmental bodies has resulted in me willing to sacrifice my entertainment values for a cause.
I used to buy CDs all the time, up to ten a month. Napster catalyzed me to buy more CDs as I'd often get a few tracks, often with compression hiccups and that would entice me to learn more about new artists and explore their catalogs. I spent a few thousand a year on new music and I would often rip the CD to my laptop and, when traveling, would play these new artists and catalyze others to explore their catalog. The captains of your industry have made the same fatal error as those in the movie business: all the artists sound the same and your draconian mindset and treating customers as the enemy have catalyzed a cause against you.
There is much conjecture regarding the moral code governing your businesses, respectively. You think stealing is wrong and have a responsibility to protect your investments and the consumers see sharing as a step forward in the artistic movement and find your profit margins to be obscene and your attitude ungrateful.
You do have the right to seek substantial return on your investment, the artist have a right to spend less money making their products (I've known a few bands and filmmakers that got signed and they partied up on the advance like it was free money), and the consumer has a right to purchase the media unencumbered. Everyone is so busy seeing what's wrong, few are approriating solutions.
What does it mean when Apple, a computer hardware company with no experience, can eclipse your, two entire industries with probably two hundred years combined experience in the field, "best" efforts into online distribution?
But I digress. Thank you for saving me money and waking me up. I was a good consumer until there was a reason to fight my handlers and now, frankly, I am enjoying the fight.
In the vaccuum of your corporate-backed media in my life, I have taken to finding new avenues of entertainment. With the several thousand dollars a year I am saving, I have been able to buy more books to read, go to more local bars and see live performances of some suprisingly good artists who would never appear on your radar, I've seen cool films in basements, and even used a little of my extra money to invest in a small budget film.
I enjoy the community of intellectuals this scuff has given rise to. We may not be a cadre of lawyers, but we are learnign the law and how it affects us daily as we are fascinated by the game you are playing. For us it is an exercise and for you it is life or death. There's a lot less pressure on us and many more of us, and we control the money you so desire, so I think we're pretty much assured victory in the long run, but thanks for coming out to the skirimish.
I've seen more plays and art exhibits, I've spent more time with my friends and family in social settings instead of anti-social movie theatres, I exercise to muscians whose only identification is Jonathan Wong Set 1 (Jon has no contract, he's a bedroom DJ putting mixes out there for the love).
And it's great! I feel so free and uncumbered. You tried to tell me what to think and that challenge freed my mind in many ways.
So I say thank you, MPAA and RIAA, please continue your legal rabb
Self Destructing DVDs will simply not be bought unless the pricing ratio is well worth it.
I expect that they will be pretty popular actually. Its just like a rental, at the same price point, except there are no late fees, and you never have to remember to return it. This lets all regular retail places in on the rental market, because they don't have to maintain customer databases or return procedures. Instead of going to blockbuster, you can just drive down to the 24 hour convienance mart and get any movie you want.
Hell, I wouldn't be suprised to see a system where they have a kiosk with a DVD burner that will put whatever movie you want onto a special chemically limited DVD-R so that stores won't even have to maintain a stock of disks. It would be like an ATM machine, just put it in the store and some guy comes around and services it every couple of weeks, loads up new blank disks and new releases. Put it on a web page, order up your movie before you leave the house, and it will be ready to pick up when you get there.
I'd buy that. Specially when someone comes out with a specially treated wetwipe that prevents/reverses the chemical process that disables the disks after exposure to oxygen.
People take the path of least resistance.
Thats precisely what these companies are counting on. 99+% of the DVD watching population wouldn't know what to do with a DVD rip if it came with instructions. Nor will they care; if a DVD won't play in their consumer player, they'll assume its a bad disk and go get another or get their money back.
Like the "safe deposit box" part.
Yeah, CDs will fall apart or die faster in non-optimal environments. But a safe deposit box is not one of those.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
If copying CD's is tantamount to stealing, why would anyone in their right minds want to invite criminals into their store?!!!
They're trying to get people to buy these DRM CD's that would rather "steal" the content. Would Walmart try to lure more shoplifters into their store?
So, what does this really do? It makes DVD's and CD's a little less useful for the people that buy them, which means that they buy less of them, which in turn means that they sell fewer. And of course that drop is business, is all result of piracy. Right?
I haven't seen anyone mention the threat that future generations may lose whole sections of DRM "protected" culture because the machines which decode that culture are no longer available.
This is not unlike simple obsolecense (e.g. how can anyone who finds an ancient 8 inch floppy disk manage to read what's on it?) but seems worse, because at least nobody was actively trying to prevent you from read the damn thing. In 50 years, it may be the case that culture of today, protected by some failed (read: not popular) DRM strategy is simply inaccessible, and lost forever.
Lemme get this straight? I go out and buy ArtistX's latest cd/dvd. Costs me $20 bucks. What do I get for this? The DVD player refuses to play the cd. The Imac freezes solid. Getting it unfrozen means I gotto trek down to the pc store and fork out an extra $120 for the service fee. I gotta reboot the pc. And Zonealarm goes freaking crazy because program X keeps trying to dial out. Don't call me paranoid here -- it'll happen, it's just a matter of time. To play the godforsaken audio cd, I gotta put the cd into the portable cd player, feed it into the computer and record an mp3, and use that mp3 to create an audio cd that plays on the dvd player, the imac, and the pc. All this for 20 bucks. Whatta deal! OR, I could use the 10 minutes it takes to get the freaking saran wrap off of the audio cd and download the cd from Kazaa. For free. ORRRRRRRRR, I could really stick it to the music company and the f'ing band who signed off with said music company and NOT BUY THE DAMN CD AND NOT DOWNLOAD IT! When the music industry sees all interest in music cd's die utterly, both on Kazaa and in cd sales, they'll be falling over themselves to stop the DRM nonsense.
just a heads up, the new radiohead album has copy protection built in. It requires that you install software (that comes on the cd) to listen to the cd and is only supported in windows and mac os 9/x (also claims to be compatable with legacy cd players, but I don't own one so i couldn't test)
well all my machines run linux so I wasn't able to play the cd (although the thought did cross my mind to use wine, but I just returned the cd)
i've never really bought cds in the past (for various reasons, money, i could store more on my computer, etc) and now that i'm becoming more interested in certain artists I find purchasing cds allows you to feel with alot more clarity what the artist wanted you to feel, that and downloading is a hassle. Needless to say, i'm going back to downloading, not being able to play/rip to mp3 my own cds is really making me rethink buying cds.
Nobody I know likes being reminded everytime about the FBI. Nobody I know likes being forced to watch previews. Nobody I know likes being told what to do with their DVD when they use it for their own purposes unless they take it upon themselves to give copies away to everyone.
It's about the content dammit! People don't buy DVDs for previews, for fancy menus or the damn FBI warning. Most people want the movie, not the 2 hours of celebrity mutual masturbation that is the typical "bonus" disk. I have a better idea for them, find a way to reduce the cost to such a point that you can buy **just** the movie for $10 after sales tax. If they want to make it sooo easy for customers to get the movies they want and make them happy they'd make it so that producing a "lite" DVD is so cheap that they could sell them so inexpensively that a $20 bill would buy you 2 movies.
Of course that would require an entrepeneurial spirit, something they have not known for almost a century. That would require them to take a calculated risk, something that they don't understand the need for. The market won't hold back forever. Americans have technological blinders, but we're not blind. When we see nations like South Korea, Taiwan and Japan that have no analogs to the DMCA sticking their tongues out at us when their gadgets are a good 5-10 years ahead of ours because of the DMCA, et al, Americans will be mad. Why? It won't be just silly gadgets, it'll be a lot of things. First it will be the divisions that make the gadgets like the DVD-VCRs, then it will be the rest of the company that goes overseas. More jobs lost because "artists" were being "ripped off."
I'm more musically inclined than Britney Spears and company. I say fuck the "artists" if we have to choose between their copyrights and a functioning free market. It's more important that 5,000 musicians not get paid for their songs downloaded illegally than 2,500 more manufacturing jobs or any other jobs go everseas because the companies found our copyright laws too stifling.
Everybody has ignored the most obvious factor of musical growth: the advancement of science. The most scientifically advanced societies on Earth also have the most musically diverse cultures as a general rule. The more science has made our lives better, even in peripheral ways, the more musicians have benefited. In 100 years science took us from having a society with only a few major types of music (in no small part because so many modern musical tools hadn't been invented like electric equipment) to having dozens. It made it possible for tens of thousands of musicians to at least effectively supplement their income with their skills. Excuse the hell out of me, but science has done more for copyright holders than copyright law. It was not economically feasible for so many musicians to make a living off of their music 100 years ago, but now thanks to the explosion of technological growth it's definitely possible if you're good.
I have one final proposal for the closet socialists and fascists of the **AA: lobby against budget deficits, pork barrel spending and the peacetime income tax if you want more money. All of the yuppies get the other 30-50% of their income back. What do they do with it? Invest it all or give little johny or suzie more allowance? A lot of the former and probably a lot of the latter as well. What is little johny or suzie going to do, buy blue chip stock shares? Hell no! They're going to go down to Sam Goody, buy an extra $100 worth Nelly, Jay Z, Britney Spears and Metallica.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Nothing is wrong with self destructing dvd's. Just saves you a trip of going back to the rental place. It's also stock that a rental store doesn't need to track. :P
Netflix can really use this.
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
Wow, my kids watched Disney's Robin Hood about 50 times (the still get it out now and then). So they want $750 (50*14.99) from me for this movie? That's their due?
They are really nuts -- people buy movies with the expectation of watching them a couple of times and maybe swapping with their friends. As soon as you want this kind of money they'll just go back to watching TVI'd expect that we may be able to duplicate items down to an molecular level. That is, pretty much the way the food-serving devices (or transporter beams, in a sense) work in Star Trek.
This would be great for online purchasing...buy it, have it arrive via transporter.
However, I do see the future ??AA (hopefully the current body will be dead by then) screaming and tearing out hair when piracy can be done as an exact science on a molecular level...
But screw it, I'm going to download the majority of the music I listen to. Yes it's stealing. They want to stop making music because no one buys it fine by me, they can stop pretending they're artists then.
I'll just buy cd's from the bands I go listen to at a local bar/club if I like it and want to listen to it again. Perhaps I'll then share the songs with some friends and they'll like what they hear and want to go see a show next time they play.
Sounds like a fair deal to me. You give us the music you created with your artistic talent, we'll come and pay to see your performances.
A lot of the early bugs have been dealt with, and record companies say they will continue to roll out new copy-protected discs and offer online downloads that expire after a few listens based on the latest DRM systems.
And consumers will continue to buy less and less music. You have to love the recording industry; they're probably the only group that constantly FUDs itself.
If technology firms like Sony and Microsoft have their way, songs and movies will expire after a single play...
Have either Sony or Microsoft actually said anything to that effect? I've heard talk of restricting use to the original owner, preventing copying, etc etc, but one PLAY??
That is a great link!
I didn't have an authoritative document that said this is legal, now I do.
They say "rip-proof" and "self-destructing", but how can you prevent someone from copying the bits on a CD? And how does a CD self destruct?? Sounds like they're fooling with the Windoze registry. I find it highly unlikely their tactics will have any effect on Linux users....
Link here
--- Ban humanity.
I tried to read the article, but it melted away before I could read it. It only allowed 5 minutes to read it. I suppose I shouldn't have gone to get a drink.
"Don't want the government to control you? Leave society and become a hermit..."
Yeah, because there's no other way, right??
Sheesh...a little defeatist aren't we...I laugh at you from my huge party on my private island...
"but you lose lots of practical benefits,"
uh-huh,go on...
"like convenience stores..."
-because i can't live without some smelly zitfarm selling me expired ding-dongs at 300% markup...riiiight
"electricity..."
-cause it only comes out of that wierd hole in the wall in big cities right??
See:solar panels, wind(mills?), wave, hydro(micro)electric turbines, woodstoves(cooking/heating alternative),etc,etc
"the internet..."
-so unless i'm a slave to the state, no company/friends will want to sell/share internet access via satellite or any type of wireless (shortwave, 802.11x, that new ultra-low freq. wireless coming out)...assuming i'm too far away from cable/phone lines or wireless hot-spots(ALL the time)
"public sanitation systems..."
-Oh, you mean your drinking water that's filled with floride/clorine/whoknowswhat from rusted pipes but still manages to get you sick/dead from ecoli/gardia??
Or do you mean your 'waste-treatment' plants that cost you an arm and a leg and let you drink your own piss(and any medications you/anyone has had) after they've 'cleaned' it for you
And all the time you're paying water tax,mill rates,and told when and where you can use water..
See:The multitude of collection/filters/purification/disposal systems that are cheaper and more efficient that ANYTHING made for 'the masses'
"health insurance..."
-again, no company would provide this unless you're a slave of some govt??..see also;loss of convenience store ding-dongs...also;sanitation systems
The truth is out there...but to make my point through misquoting you;
"However, when there are few or no lost benefits, people won't hesitate to use alternatives. Same thing applies to **GOVERNMENTS**...the more they clamp down, the more consumers squeeze through their fingers and start using consumer-friendly alternatives like **INDEPENDANT LIVING** and **REVOLUTIONS**.
I was dissapointed to discover that my copies of Radiohead's "Hail to the Theif" and Blur's "Think Tank" were copy controlled. Fortunately, I discovered that you can circumvent it easily enough with the proper software.
That link has the entire story, and my response to Copy Control mechanisms. I too have an objection with them calling them CDs, seeing as they are not "Compact Discs" within the RedBook IEC 908 Specification.
-RW
someone who's going to pirate music is going to do it and then find a reason to justify it
Some people who copy music illegally feel guilty that they're doing something wrong, but carry on anyway. (Oh, and don't call it piracy, please, it has nothing to do with robbing ships.)
The point the grandparent post is making is that, for some people, DRM-crippled media will be enough to tip the balance towards illegal copying.
Standard CDs will play on any CD player, and there's a readily available specification for making compatible CD players. The cost of legal CDs is the price of the CD; the cost of illegal copies is the feeling of guilt and the potential penalty if you get caught. Many people feel guilty enough about illegal copying that the cost of legal CDs is less than the "cost" of illegal copies, so they buy legal CDs.
DRM-crippled optical music media happen to play on most consumer CD players, because the makers of those CD players cut corners and don't follow the specification rigorously. The cost of illegal copies is the same as for standard CDs, plus a bit of time investment in breaking the DRM; the cost of legal non-CDs is the price, plus the inconvenience of not being able to play them in some CD players, or on a computer, or rip them for use in an iPod or similar, or use them in a PC-based MP3 jukebox without finding the actual physical CD, and so on. Depending on the relative "cost" the customer places on guilt and on this inconvenience, the inconvenience might well end up as a higher cost, so they go for the illegal copies.
I'm not saying it's right, but if you think in terms of relative costs, you can see why the extra burden of DRM restrictions makes illegal copies look more attractive.
After all the whining is done, the ultimate answer is don't buy DRM products as long as there are alternatives.
I think what most people forget is that until we get those cool holes in the back of our necks, we can't process digital signals ourselves--so, add all the DRM hardware that you want--eventually, it must pass thru an Analog converter to become useful to us.
Tap into that circuit, play your CD, and you have a high quality, digitally mastered source to sample using your ordinary sound card. Or tap in on the digital side of that DAC and you can get a nice stream of bits to process.
There is always a way around DRM. Always.
Gee, how much does the artist get from a CD sale? Do you know? Tell me (and then prove it, smart guy)
Heh. I remember years ago when I first heard of DiVX. It was back shortly before the release of the Playstation 2 and before it was even conirmed that the console would support DVD movie playback, and someone was posting to a gaming newsgroup about how DVD may not really the future of movies, as there was a "new" technology coming out called DIVX, which was basically "DVD with encrpytion". I remember thinking at the time that it was an incredibly stupid idea, and I couldn't imagine it becoming popular with consumers.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Seems to me if the RIAA were serious about stamping out piracy, they'd employ an army of hackers (at arms length) to sniff out illicit IRC channels, web sites, peer-to-peer networks, and either get the plugs pulled on them, hack them or DoS them. They could even set up trojaned downloads to display the message "All your base are belong to us" :) .
Everyone knows that if you can see and hear something, you can rip it. Don't make the discs uncopiable; it's pointless. Cut off the underground distribution networks instead.
I picked up the Police CD from a chain store, it initially went for $28, I snagged it from the bargain bin for $6. It was the second or third go-round for it. Same story with the other 2 CDs.
If you can break/work around the protection, there are a lot of good buys out there. If the labels are looking to increase their per-unit gross, it ain't workin', and the stores ain't happy about it.
Just because someone watches video, doesn't mean they are watching "TV". Which do you mean, that they are watching a glass screen with images and sound, or that they are watching network television programming?
Your preface is inflammatory and irrelevant. Go look up "False Choice" in any internet reference of logical fallacies.
Your comparison--that the DRM "outlaws" (those who choose to operate outside the law) are like societal outlaws--is correct as far as it goes, but it is incomplete.
If we assume that only an extreme situation will persist in the end--anarchy or totalitarianism, then the appropriate action is to pick a position and push it farther to the edge. But the inevetability of extremes is not generally supportable. The world will not erupt into anarchy because a 5-year old steals a candy bar.
In most instances, it is possible for an agreeable compromise between competing desires to be reached. Admittedly, there are sociapaths on either side of this issue that would prefer absolute anarchy or absolute regulation. But sociopaths are generally not as effective as social participants in defining society.
For you to concede to either camp at this point is throwing in the towel way too early.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Shortsighted
One of the reasons DRM is so insane is because it is incredibly short sighted. I have records that are over 50 years old. I can play those records on virtually any turntable out there. Imagine if those records had been made with some sort of primitive DRM that required them to be played on a specific machine or required a call into a company to input a code before they would play. The truth is that most of those record companies don't even exist today. A huge cultural legacy would be lost.
The truth is obsolescence is already built in. Formats change computer file systems change, OSes change, our standards of quality change. My bet is that 50 years from now it will be just as rare to find someone playing mp3 files as it is tto find people playing old records now. You will have find a machine to read a certain kind of hard disk, find a way to read a particular file system, and then to interpret the format. Making those formats closed is virtually insuring the digital death of the music (or the video or whatever data they happen to contain).
I already see this problem with old software and data. I have a ton of programs from the apple ][ days. With some doing I can get that data off the old 5 1/2 inch disks and into an emulator under OS X. Most programs work and I can see the data (mainly high school book reports in appleworks), but it's a lot of effort. Luckily I was pretty good about keeping serial numbers around, but the programs that inevitably fail are the ones with anti-copy copy protection. Even back then the odd sector layout would cause problems on certain disk drives. Now the programs are essentially dead. With enough work I could probably revive them, but who has the time? We see the same problem now with certain cds with bad data written in on purpose to foil copying, but also foil playing on certain systems (actually in this case maybe it is a good thing to prevent Celine Dion from propagating her evil).
I have the same problem with my old Mac data circa 1984/85 even without copy protection. I have data in formats of programs that simply don't exist anymore (does anyone remember Fullwrite...so far ahead of it's time, but doomed by MS Word). My only hope for reading this data is finding an old machine or waiting until someone builds a good 68000 emulator (vmac has a ways to go)
Doing this to music (on purpose no less) is particularly insidious because music is one of the things that should live on as a cultural legacy. When I buy a CD I want it to last and I want to be able to play it whether I am here in LA or in a Kashgari taxi. I doubt that 2053 my grandkids will enjoy my Nada Surf mp3s the way I enjoy my grandfather's Vera Lynn and Tex Williams records, but I would like them to have the chance at listening to them in the first place.
Does anyone know if the new Metallica had DRM/anti-copy features built-in? I was sure that their anti-Napster metalities would keep us from copying their music, but I didn't have any problem making a dupe.
I planned on inserting something witty here but never got around to it.
"Ravaged by piracy, movie studios..."
Spiderman OW: 114m, 403m total
Matrix Reloaded OW: 91m, 247m total (and counting)
Harry Potter 2 OW: 88m, 261m total
3 of the 4 top opening weekend gross movies came out with the last year. If they aren't making money it's because they're stupid. Ravaged by piracy... fsck off.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
Don't tell them that! Whose side are you on anyway!?
Took over 8 hours to rip using EAC though... owch."
Only need to rip it once, though. THEN YOU CAN MAKE COPIES FOR ALL YOUR FRIENDS ON THE INTERNET. SLEAZY FUCKERS.
"Thanks for assuming I'm a pirate, MPAA. You might just've made me one. "
No! Thank you for proving how much of a consumer you are. You WANT it SO BAD that you will not even try COLD TURKEY, but you'll immediately hit the nearest Kaaza mirror for your FIX, so you will not have to experience WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.
I'd say that companies much like drug pushers have already won the first battle. Now the second battle commences. JUNKIE vs PUSHER! Who will win the battle of the consumer needle?
Please, for the love of god (or whichever deity you prefer), do NOT buy this crippled crap.
... Greedy? (I know it's C, but you just never know...).
It's not piracy that's killing this biz, is crappy merchandise. When do you think they will do what every other big biz does at times when sales of their "widgets" are slipping, and blame their product line? Not only are their "widgets" decreasing in true value to its consumer through a drop in quality of the product, but now it's wanting to hurt the "widget" even more by INSERTING stuff to make its"widget" even worse?! "Our "widget" sales are dropping, I know...let's make the "widget" an even harder sell by adding restrictions to it! That'll bring 'em back in droves! Who's with me!! (cheers from suits can be heard down the hall)"
What in the hell is wrong with these people? Are they insane? Stupid?
They are actually making a case for STEALING the music. I swear these guys are sharing a single brain cell, and it's missfiring or something. It's just plain easier and less restrictive to download the damn music nowadays (yes, it's cheaper too, but the first two realities suffice for most of the people that I know who download music). Apple is trying to help this very perception/problem with iTunes Music Store. It's easy (I still get them from my chair at home), I can burn as many CD's as I like, and I can use them on my computer. Thank you Apple.
They are shooting themselves in the foot while looking at $$ numbers being lost due to piracy. They choose to fix it by attacking it's consumers instead of offering more in it's product. Don't most "things" get better AND cheaper as they age in their market? Are they telling me it costs more now to put out good music (which I would STILL be waiting for)? Again, I'm not sure where these guys went to business school, and I'm no CFO, but attacking your customer by telling him that his music will now be more restrictive (how does this help sales again???) and stating the reasons as "well, we're not saying you are a crook, we just don't want you to become one" is horse shit, and just plain STUPID. These dumb asses deserve what they are going to get, and that's an angry customer base that is even MORE willing to thumb their nose at them and steal the damn music. Like others have stated, I'll buy CD's again, but they will be of good music which now means almost anything you DON'T hear on the readio, and their will be no restrictions as to how I choose to listen to the music that is ON that CD. Again, thank you Apple for allowing indie bands to join the music store.
I'm sorry for the long rant, it's just that big music biz execs are keeping their jobs because they can point to a $avings in these implementations which the big bosses love, without seeing the long term losses and it's insane.
Good luck.
Launching Acquisition for my next "acquisition"...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
Media firms acknowledge they are treading a sensitive line between preserving copyrights and satisfying the consumer. A system that introduces too many limitations will most certainly end in bad PR and a consumer backlash.
Introducing ANY new restriction on what I can do with it gets a backlash from me.
Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
DVD makers should learn from Circuit City's costly mistake. Consumers like the traditional media distribution model. People like to buy stuff and then OWN it. That means use without restriction. I bought it, I should be able to play it in my car, computer or MP3 player.
The same model has made DVD a success. It would be a dumb strategy to mess with it.
For those that don't remember; info on Circuit City's failed experiment can be found here.
-ted
...logic would say you are right, with the exception that recording artists contracted with labels are considered 'Work for Hire' status [part of the Consumer Home Recording Act, or something of that ilk]. The company owns copyright to what the artist produces, but the artist only gets paid if/when it sells [less advances, etc., which come off the top of anything that sells]. There are more particulars, and I'm sure I'm missing some parts, but that's the gist.
The problem is that there are only a few big conglomerates that a promising artist can sign with to even have a chance to make a good living, and everybody has the same terms. An oligarchy.
Only the biggest artists can negotiate something different. Courtney Love likened it to sharecropping [I can't find the link to the speech, but it's out there], and it's a pretty good analogy, IMO.
Who put this thing together? Me, that's who.
That's the very reason I got rid of my TV. I've found that the only way to force myself to not watch TV is to simply have no TV. I can highly recommend it to everyone.
Again???
PRESTO! divx is reborn, only this time you get to pay the cost up-front, and you STILL get a nice shiny coaster after you've watched it.
Don't these clowns ever learn? I guess as long as they keep the towel wrapped around their heads, they can say whatever they want about what we really want, and it'll all look true.
I hope that self-destructing media leads to a self-destructing RIAA. I will buy my music and movie collection again IF AND WHEN they come out with solid-state no-moving-parts lifelong media that is the size of an SD card. Then it'll be worth spending N*$20 again. Until then, I hope they enjoy their little plans -- since the first time I ever find a CD or DVD that fails outright, will be the last time I ever buy one.
Nick Driver:
/. and I wanna kill myself.
"Maybe more and more people will continue to be lulled into the entertaiment and media industries hypnotic mind-numbing oceans of depraved soul-less hype until every person in the world becomes a slave to this constant feed of marketing sludge and every person in the world becomes so complacently hypnotised that they shrivel up, rot, and starve to death, their own brains mush in their heads before their soul-less hearts cease to beat in their sunken decaying chests and the earth stops spinning and time stands still and the entire universe implodes into nothingness!"
This guy posts to
It seems to me that if there are self destructing discs made, it would encourage, indirectly, pirating the cd/dvd for longer term use.
Going against legality of course, but people use all those p2p programs illegally with seemingly little guilt as well.
Just a thought.
paul
I've got my own complaints regarding the movie adaptation, but that's another topic.
I'm noticing not only a lot more Previews on DVD's but also the inability to access the menu until the actual movie starts. You can Fast Forward and sometimes hit Next for each Preview to get to the actual movie but this is unbelievably arrogant. Its bad enough to sit through the big FBI Warning which you can not skip through either. One draw backs of Digital Media put in the hands of greedy control freaks.
If I understand this, since controlling copyright is so important we are going to create disposable discs that are going to further tax our overburdened land fills.
Does this mean the next big player against the RIAA and MPAA will be environmentalists?
Uhhh...how about getting rid of dumb shit like DRM that will drive your customers away? How about pricing CD's sanely? How about charging either for the media or for the song. Which do I own? Why can't I get a CD of something I already bought on tape so many years ago for the price of the media, and a moderate 're-distribution' fee?
This will drive their profits down, not up. Retards.
That's sort of a side effect of the way our society is going to (American that is). Small grocery stores and corner markets dying out in favor of uber supermarkets. Local hardware stores dying out in favor of huge Walmarts and Home Depot. Local resturants giving way to large food chains.
In each scenario we move away from better service into something similar, but very generic (and bland). Much like music.
"well in canada anyone that buys a blank CD gets taxed to subsidize the record cartels' insanely inflated profit margins.
sent straight to the record companies i believe"
Other than that, it was factually correct.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
With great delight I inform the ./ audence that even SACD and DVD-a based on my observation are not very likely to be purchaced due to the following explanation...
"I don't want to buy a new media player, i'm happy with the one I bought"
Home media systems are not like computers, they don't go obsolete after 1.5 years. Vinyl has been the standard for decades, cassette tapes have been the standard for decades. CDs have been the standard for decades.
Part of the reason people bought into DVD players is because they can play CDs, and they served to actually reduce the size of a person's home theater stack. I just bought a new DVD player with FM/AM tuner, I just dropped my stack by a whole two components. Now it's only digital cable box, vcr, turn table, and amp.
I don't have the room for a tape player in that stack, which is fine cause I don't have room for tapes. I'm not about to invest in a new media player to use new standards when the old one works just dandy, I don't have the room nor the desire to spend yet more bucks for something else that just won't fit. I'm so sorry to disapoint the media companies.
I might be considered somewhat up to date on my media system, I had DVD via a realmagic card for years. But this is my first DVD player, and only bought it because it actually reduced the size of my stack without loss of sound quality. I don't have room for a SACD compatabile player, nor do I have the room in my stack for anything else.
While I enjoy the ability to rent high quality DVD media, even if they gave me a DRM complient player I don't have the room for it. They would have to buy me a new entertainment center as well.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
the people control their government, not the other way around. Maybe he doesn't live in a democratic counry and wants his government to become a democracy, have you ever thought of that?
It is not just major labels that are using copy protection, but some indie labels are resorting to this user hostile tactic.
I bought a cd by the synthpop group de/vision last summer, and when I got it home, I found out it was copy protected. I then quickly returned it to the store. I also took the liberty of writing the band and the label to see why they were resorting to this tactic.
I politely told them, that the cd i purchased would not work in my pioneer cdj-100's, which is a pro dj cd player. I also asked why they would want to alienate the same people that essentially advertise their music. Well, after a few emails, they ended it with this:
[sic]thank you
enjoy your coutry , enjoy your law
and support the dying of bands
good bye
You can read the entire conversation at copyproofcds.org , which is a site i made to rant about copy protection.
That's right, I hope they pour every last dime they have into this nutcake technology, so much money that they end up putting their last card on the table.
Then some smart kid like Jon Johansen cracks it six ways to Sunday, someone totally blows the entire DRM system wide open. All the greedy a$$ money grabbers will go belly up and a whole new world is born. The greedsters die off and those that survive get a dose of reality and adopt a realistic distribution plan.
I really hope that people wake up and smell the coffee. Vote with your wallet. Don't buy this $hit..
Join a group that is leaving this society. If you do it together the transition is easier and you give up fewer things. With a large enough, well trained enough, group you can provide yourselves everything you need. I actually have spent a good deal of time looking at the Amish and similar groups. Nix the religion and add in some high technology and they'd have a pretty damn good idea. That is what I'm working towards.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
yeah, yeah, don't feed the copyright monster
Have you signed the Eldred Act petition?
but wives and kids do their own thing
I don't give Disney more money than an occasional rental. Why don't you introduce them to Don Bluth movies, DreamWorks movies, and the like?
Will I retire or break 10K?
the hell is this 'rip-proof' format? Sounds like another crap marketing term.
That was damn inspiring... Mod parent up!!!
The contents of this album expire.
This movie sucks.
WARNING! Celine Dion content!!! WARNING!
Help stamp out iliturcy.
This is the precise reason that I simply adore Linux. The megacorps say "We have to walk the fine line between raping our consumers and servicing them," and they team up against us to push that line as close to rape as public opinion permits (a point that has, so far, slowly receeded under their relentless pressure for more and more control). However, with the existence of Linux suddenly the public has a tool by which they can stand firm to resist (and even reverse) this slow oppresion. In opening the operating system and applications, the control over the operating system (and what technologies are supported) is taken from the corporations and placed into the public's hands. This power can then be used to pressure the media megacorps toward using the dreaded "open [technology] formats" rather than closed, secret formats that are under their control and may contain surprising restrictions. With the ability to more clearly voice an opinion on what forms of control they find valid, the general public can draw a line in the sand, one that (in theory) the corporations cannot cross with a new technology without also opening that technology to scrutiny as with existing technologies.
Anyway, I don't expect any form of DRM to take off to the extent the megacorps wish, ever, with or without open technologies. There is too much of an "I own it, I can do what I want" attitude towards media in America for any sort of Digital Rights Manglement -- most expecially, time limiting DRM -- to take off in a significant manner. (Remember Circuit City's failed DiVX players?) All DRM has done so far is reduce the fair use casual copying that many consumers enjoy, while doing nothing to diminish the hardcore piracy that does pure bitcopies of disks -- which is its' reported purpose.
Do you like Japanese imports?
I can never fully understand why in the world the American public does not ever exercise its right to boycott. This would be a great time to start and set a precedent.
Must-not-watch TV!
See:solar panels, wind(mills?), wave, hydro(micro)electric turbines, woodstoves(cooking/heating alternative),etc,etc
How do you buy those if you don't have a job in the city? I don't think they'll take your commune's currency.
And how would you counter the fact that the government has big guns and tanks and bombers and you don't?
Will I retire or break 10K?
The RIAA, MPAA, entertainment industry giants, and other lobby groups throw great amounts of money, thought, and manpower at creating a "sustainable" market outlet in the digital world (for entertainment media). They claim their biggest threat to the entertainment market is piracy. If we examine the past actions of these groups, we will see that they have:
Why are DVD players/media and CD players/media not treated in the same fashion as a VCR or Copier device (such as a Xerox)? To my knowledge manufacturers of copy machines and (during their time) VCRs made decent profits. I could skip commercial recordings and previews on my VCR, but I cannot skip the previews on my DVD player. How is that fair use?
Ultimately, I see the courts will need to intervene to set a precedent (similar to the cases involving the VCR and Copy machine). The "entertainment industry" and the standards bodies will establish DRM standards that aren't too unacceptable to the consumer (arguably they won't know the reason for a loss of capability) at first. As the standards go through the review process over the years, you will see devices that have little to no consumer protection (rights and information) inherent in their design. As it is easier to implement a standard and get acceptance by starting with the most acceptable format, and then slowly repealing/adding features over time.
The consumers could stop this nonsense right now by doing three simple things:
- cancel your cable (if you subscribe)
- do not "go to movies" or buy CD/DVD/Computer Software merchandise that is DRM enabled (whenever possible)
- do not buy consumer electronics or computer systems that have native support for DRM
A final action could be to support your Open Source projects, as they currently don't have an issue with piracy.To know is to have knowledge....to understand is to be enlightened.
Unless the industry manages to put DRM on the RCA outs (making most every TV obsolete in the process), they can copy protect to their hearts content.
A WinTV Go ($50) can do 30fps with 640x480 resolution on a 1.2Ghz machine with little trouble given the proper compression. If you want to retain more than just stereo sound it just takes putting more money into the capture card.
Same with CDs. If I can hear it, I can record it. Worst case scenerio I will only beable to do 1x and record from the line in instead of trying to do it digitally.
They should just give it up and spend money on making better products. I have no problem buying movies I like. I just wait until they're under $20 for the DVD unless I really liked the movie.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Ticket-Taker: Uh, sorry, fellas, but these tickets are counterfeit.
... and there's no such team as the "Spungoes" ... and finally, they seem to be printed on some sort of cracker. [takes a bite of one]
Wally: What?
Homer: Counterfeit?!
Ticket-Taker: Yeah, see, the hologram's missing
Homer: [grabs tickets back] Stop eating our tickets!
the people control their government
Not in America. You see, the United States of America is a republic on paper but not in practice. Voters in the USA will typically vote for whatever candidate the TV tells them to, modulo a "choice" of two parties whose political positions move ever closer to the center. and Disney (ABC), Microsoft (MSNBC), Viacom (CBS, UPN), News Corporation (Fox, Fox News), and Time Warner (WB, CNN) control what the TV says.
Will I retire or break 10K?
You'd be wanting this then. Will find you any satellite by location, time, direction, and brightness. Also lets you find the Iridium flashes (visible in daylight!)
-T
Like the "safe deposit box" part.
Yeah, CDs will fall apart or die faster in non-optimal environments. But a safe deposit box is not one of those.
Oh you mean a nice safe environment like the "Lock-Box"?
Today, thousands of Radio Shack and other electronics stores were all raided by the US Marshalls service for selling and/or manufacturing "anti-circumvention" devices as prohibited by 17-USC-1201 - the DMCA.
Early reports indicate that the items that are causing these retail outlets such grief are commonly known as patch-cables.
According to Harvey Buttnut, well known computer geek, these patch cables can be used to pipe the analog audio from a CD player into the audio input of a computer - allowing the computer to make a recording of the CD with minimal quality loss and no more copy protection.
Lawyers for Sony Corp. at the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe confirmed that it was their investigation that led to the raids on these stores. Apparently, the lawyers' son had accidentily purchased a DRM protected CD from a music store and wanted to play the content on a portable MP3 player.
Ron Gage - Westland, MI
Huh...so I guess that mp3 copy of "Everything Must Go" that I listened to last week must have been encrypted. Wow, I didn't know that XMMS had that capability. What an amazing player! ;)
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
Just because someone watches video, doesn't mean they are watching "TV". Which do you mean, that they are watching a glass screen with images and sound, or that they are watching network television programming?
Seems that "watching anything on a TV"[1] and "watching network TV" are highly correlated. What share of the audience does non-network programming get?
[1] Here, "TV" does not include displays used with a personal computer.
Will I retire or break 10K?
"Teach a man to buy a CD, and he's a customer.
Allow a man to rip a CD, and he's a thief forever."
- Ancient RIAA proverb.
But divx (not the codec) died a horrible death, thinking people would spend $8 for a demo disc, $50 for buying unlimited rights, and left with nothing but worthless crap. Circuit Shitty and some lawyers thought that people would be pay for the privlege of tying a disc to a particular player.
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
If your player meets the requirements listed on the outer packaging, but the title still won't play, do this (but only at a major chain, not at a mom-and-pop store): Buy one copy. Demonstrate that it doesn't work. The minimum-wage worker will exchange it for another copy of the same title. Demonstrate that it doesn't work. Exchange it. Demonstrate that it doesn't work. Exchange it. Deplete the store's stock of that title.
Rinse and repeat, return and deplete.
Will I retire or break 10K?
If we assume that only an extreme situation will persist in the end--anarchy or totalitarianism, then the appropriate action is to pick a position and push it farther to the edge. But the inevetability of extremes is not generally supportable.
How about copyrights? It's been extended yet again due to lobbying by Disney to protect Mickey Mouse (or really Steamboat Willie) from going into the public domain. For the sake of Disney's cash cow, thousands of works are also languishing which could have been reprinted and redistributed. Do you see Disney not lobbying an extension when the current term expires? Do you see Disney ever letting any of its characters lapse into public domain? There you go, one solid example of an extreme right before your eyes. And there are many more.
The world will not erupt into anarchy because a 5-year old steals a candy bar.
According to chaos theory, it could.
In most instances, it is possible for an agreeable compromise between competing desires to be reached.
I'm guessing you know nothing about the RIAA? There will be no compromise, there can't be a compromise. Yes, the RIAA has/will settle out of court, but they are settling cases; they are not compromising their stance, there's nothing in the settlement that allows the defendant to share music.
Admittedly, there are sociapaths on either side of this issue that would prefer absolute anarchy or absolute regulation. But sociopaths are generally not as effective as social participants in defining society.
No, Hitler's actions had no lasting effects. Martin Luthor did nothing for protestant christians, not to mention the wasted efforts of Jesus. Gandhi isn't even worth mentioning. Look at history; major changes in the world are brought about by "sociopaths" for good or for bad. Or brought around by capitalists looking to make a buck; Carnegie, Rockefeller, Ford, Gates.
Social participants are sheep. Governments know this, the primary job of the government is to herd these sheep and to protect these sheep against sociopaths and corporations; otherwise there's no need for government. Social participants are the least effective in defining society- an excellent example is the 2000 Presidential elections; how many people didn't vote because they didn't care? How many people voted along party lines because they couldn't be bothered to find out what the issues were?
Much more effective than the social participants are companies with large amounts of cash. That can buy lobbyists, influence government and legislative decisions. That can convince the masses that yes, DRM is good for them and they should just accept it. That is what is happening here.
For you to concede to either camp at this point is throwing in the towel way too early.
And how do you know that person isn't a major player in the RIAA/kazaa battle? How do you know they don't have an inside view of it. Just because you personally don't see the writing on the wall doesn't mean it isn't there, or that other people don't see it.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
companies mark the product you brought back as defective.. then have you switch for an identical product that is still in it's wrapper.. which you immediately hand over and they mark as a return.. which they then give you your money for
Toys "R" Us unwraps any same-title exchange before handing it to the customer. "Rinse and repeat" is the only strategy that works for TRU.
Will I retire or break 10K?
"When I was a kid, we had to make our own fun"
"Of course you did: if you don't make it yourself, it's not fun, it's entertainment"
--If 50,000 people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
maybe the cd's might be a little more troublesome to rip, but what's to stop someone looping line-out to line in and recording that?
sure with dvd it's a little trickier, since you'd be compressing a compressed copy - bound to be some issues there... but CDs aren't compressed data, it's a raw signal going out to the speakers and well-known form, so i don't see how this is going to stop any audio ripping.
at some point 'copy protection' is nothing more than a hassle for the consumer. and when it's a hassle - it dies. (see: DIVX )
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
"Celine won't sing"
Let's face it, she can't sing.
Let it be known, I will gladly sign on to a class action lawsuit tackling this form of DRM.
You have to love this kind of quality journalism, folks: "Ravaged by piracy, movie studios and recording labels have...", the media has been describing the issue of file-sharing like this since Napster blew up, but this is the strongest adjective I've yet seen.
Just make CD's and DVD's that explode if they spin any faster than the normal playback RPM that's used in a set top DVD or CD player?
Use shitty plastic that can't take the stress of spinning at 52x....
Someone sticks one in a PC and BOOM!!! Plastic shards come flying out of your drive..
Disc and drive kaput.
That would pee in the lemonaid of most pirates.
lap up, not for customers. Until they understand the BASIC difference the record and movie leeches are getting exactly what they deserve. Corporations spent BILLIONS advertising and creating an unthinking market that just eats up what is put on their plates. Now the beasts' appetite has exceeded their control and they are beginning to worry. If they had dealt with the CUSTOMERs in a erspectful manner in the first lpace these issues would never have become problems. Greed spawns gluttony....
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Where?
All the arable land (and I'd say all the significant non-arable land as well) has been claimed and hermits are usually not welcome.
After all, they don't pay property tax.
You might be able to get away with it in a few places (including Montana, with no property tax) but you have to buy the land first, which is its own issue, and you are still technically accountable to the laws of the land.
Your real only chance is to discover an island, and I think even all of those are claimed. Perhaps if you live on the ocean itself, you've got a chance. You've got food, and you shouldn't have too much of a problem finding friendly ports.
Face it, we don't have the choice.
Read the article I have linked to very, very carefully. Record company "advances" are considered loans against future royalties. You have to "repay" a laundry list of expenditures made on your behalf before you make a dime of royalty off of your music.
In other businesses, those kind of expenses are considered part of doing business. In the recording industry, they are considered the employee's problem. Imagine the uproar that would happen if all the copier paper, copy toner, pens, pencils, internet bandwidth and other "cost centers" of a business' budget were charged to their employees and, as a condition of getting paid, the employee would have to pay their boss back for all of it. You would have general strikes, you would have rioting in the streets, it would not be pretty.
Because of the high-glamour nature of the recording industry, however, and the strength of the recording industry lobby in governments around the world, they have had the unique, special right to charge off almost all their expenses to the recording artists.
And the big record companies are not the only ones who use this kind of chicanery. After SST Records lost their major distributor, Jem/Greenworld, all of a sudden bands who had been in the black on royalties found themselves on the hook to SST for promotional expenses. Bands like Saccharine Trust, Paper Bag, Zoogz Rift and others basically were screwed out of being paid for their record sales by a switch to a more "industry standard" set of billing practices. I was there to see this all happen...my husband was in Zoogz Rift's band and I was very good friends with Paper Bag.
This way of doing business has been standard operating procedure with major record companies since the 1930s. It is only now, with the record companies going after their customer base for "piracy" and adding hideously restrictive measures to safeguard their ill gotten gains that the word is getting out.
Sure, some people get ahead with their record company. That's why you hear Metallica and Elton John and Madonna and all these other mega-millionaire recording stars whining about people "ripping us off". But the vast majority of recording artists, including some, like Prince and TLC and Don Henley, whom you would think would be in this Millionaires' Club, have been basically given a deal that is exactly as you describe. Yes indeed, artists get absolutely no money and the label keeps everything. That "advance" money is not really theirs...it is a loan from the biggest, nastiest loan sharks the world has ever known.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
And why would the recording industry (or DVD) care about what a handful of people want? At this point in time they can get away with producing crippled discs and nobody will care. So Sony makes a crippled Shakira CD. Who is going to buy it? Most of the sales are going to people who will be playing it in thier car or home CD players, not to few people who want to rip it to thier iPods. Those people represent a small fraction of thier sales, and once they have opened it they can't return it so that small fraction has been cut even smaller.
Even with all my knowledge of whats going on, I am the only one I know is going to watch out for this kind of thing when I am shopping for media. I try to educate everyone I know, but the next time they go out to buy a CD they arent going to check to make sure that there is a CD logo on the package. Just like the same way that they all continue to use Kazaa instead of the spyware-less Kazaa lite and need help turning on thier computer every single time they use it no matter how many times i show them how to do it.
The majority of consumers don't have the time nor or the intrest in the subject to really know whats going on. There are still so many people who listen to music just fine without knowing about MP3's or other smaller and more portable formats. Because if they did know about them who would choose to carry thier music around with them in 15 songs per disc when they can carry thier whole music collection and a media player in thier pocket? Once the consumer realizes that there are better ways there will be a bigger demand for user friendly formats. At that time either the producers will have to sell thier music in multiple formats (i.e. music will be sold as CDA, MP3, ogg, DVD-A, etc.), media producers and manufacturers of media players will have to come to an agreement of a more portable format, or they will simply have to stop using extrememly restrictive DRMs and give way to fair use laws.
Basically the producers or DRM protected media will have a field day until consumers are educated. And they have no reason not to other than ethical ones. And why would they care about those when they can sell millions of intentionally crippled products without anyone to answer to?
~Tommy Boomfiger http://www.gotapex.com/forums
we wont be able to actually buy DVD's and CD's anymore, but instead will pay a charge everytime we want to view/listen to it? With the advent of self distructing media, it seems like its only inevitable...
i for one dont know why they are making the CD's and DVD's that are harder to rip to a hard drive because the way i see it, there are plenty of audio and video recorders and if the the media actually plays there will be a way to capture it and put it on a hard drive
Remember kids, with great power comes great opportunity to abuse that power
Be glad. I think it's wonderful the content industry is again trying to use technology to prevent piracy of their property. Any technology they create can be reverse-engineered. It's better than them making laws that makes reverse-engineering illegal.
I don't know who wants to buy a song and only get to listen to it a few times before it expires. Apple's got the right idea...99 cents buys me the song and I can listen to it as much as I want, and even burn it to CD's over and over again. It is a simple and fair system that allows everyone to profit (Apple, label, and artist).
I think you have a good Idea, but unfortunately I think the only reason people leave them alone is precisely because of the religion.
I think if there were a couple thousand high tech people living somewhere generating their own elecricity and food and generally having a good time, the government would probably step in and squash it.
Eh, either way... They'll never get DRM implemented on HKDVDs. ^o^
Its just like a rental, at the same price point, except there are no late fees, and you never have to remember to return it.
Those who return are more likely to rent another title. If you don't have to return it, then the movie store doesn't get any business spilling over from trips to return goods. This could be part of why Circuit City DIVX failed.
99+% of the DVD watching population wouldn't know what to do with a DVD rip if it came with instructions.
In the following instructions, where do I lose the average consumer? "Stick it in your PC and wait for it to load. The first time you play the disc, it'll install the codecs. Then the movie will start."
Will I retire or break 10K?
..."medical insurance" is where the KGB break your legs, and the health ministry offers to fix them for free.
In Soviet USA..."copyright" is where the RIAA uses such laws to take away your right to copy your original free speech and offers to sell it back to you for an inflated price.
Breaking someone's legs so a big organization can help is not a valid operation. Do not create artificial dependence!
I don't know enough about video, but speaking just in terms of audio isn't protecting a digital copy completely from reproduction. For example, at some point the digital information must be converted by hardware to analog. Once you have the analog signal to be output to the speakers isn't it just a mater of sampling the analog signal back to digital to make a copy. If anyone could comment on this that would be great.
WTH?
Looks like I won't be purchasing movies if this becomes a trend. Oh well, I'll save my money and donate it to EFF, Debian, and keep my MDK membership active....
I can't return it to the store b/c they will only exchange it for another copy of the same DVD.
Do this once every hour, and after a day or so, you've made a dent in their stock of that title. Once the defective rate for that title shoots up, management will get the message.
Will I retire or break 10K?
You can have a not-a-religion religiion. Something that is inclusive and can be added on to whatever other beliefes the individual members have. A belief in the power of men and machines to create instead of destroying and grabbing the wealth.
:)
Besides my plan involves specially designed floating or submerged cities that can exist outside any national borders. I have a fixation on Captain Nemo.
I'd like to see the beuracrats go to war with the geeks on their own turf. An organized front of scientists, engineers, and craftsmen is a powerful force. We make the world. If we fought back then the rich and powerful would not be rich and powerful for long.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Ravaged by piracy, movie studios and recording labels have been fitting new CD and DVD releases with layers of computer code with the aim of preventing or limiting users' ability to copy, or "rip," them onto a blank disc and trade online.
Quotes like this just prove how clueless the studios and recording labels truly are. People WILL PAY for content as long as it's convenient and not overpriced. Making consumers pay $15-$20 for a CD that has one desirable track is a business model that won't work.
Companies (like Apple) which take a smarter approach to DRM and make it more transparent are going to become the new media giants. It will be interesting to watch this transition occur and watch Steve Jobs become "the man" at a multi-media powerhouse as he zips around on his Segway scooter. It's only a matter of time before the talent starts to bail on the old guard. This might even shake up the radio industry too... Chaos is fun to watch! Time to go buy more Apple stock and a bigger harddrive for the IPOD.
Both CDs and DVDs as we known them today will never have effective copy prevention, because they would break the existing players. There are higher quality (SACD, DVD Audio) music alternatives available, yet not much interest outside Audiophile communities.
I imagine a HD-DVD could easily be the same. I have no idea about the US, but even there I doubt that many have a HDTV capable TV. So the majority won't care, and if the format is too crippled, they'll probably never switch.
Personally, on the modest equipment I have I feel a good DVD rip gives me the exact same experience as the DVD. Sure I could probably find the artifacts if they were running side-by-side or frame-by-frame, but why would I do that?
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I've also had to explain to people from time to time that the fact that thier supressor melted was a good thing. The last act of a determined protector.
Sigmentation fault - core dumped
>Nobody I know likes being reminded everytime about the FBI. Nobody I know likes being forced to watch previews.
Get Ogle DVD player for Linux.
It doesn't have a progression bar (please correct me if I am wrong) but it can skip parts of the DVD which are meant to be not skipable like that FBI part.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
The technology that makes this possible -- known as digital rights management, or DRM -- will forever change the way we consume media and software, experts believe.
They are right! From now on we'll just steal usable copies. Dumbasses.
Except that there are independent labels and independent artists.
Even more to the point, you said: That doesn't mean they want the industry the way it is.
What you mean is you don't want it that way. Honestly, you don't care what others want. No one is forcing them to sign the contract (well, infamous rap labels aside), they choose freely to do it. If there were no record labels, there would be even fewer pop sensations. Why? How would you hear about any one? Instead of a lot of pop that a lot of people enjoy, there'd be nothing but indie bands that very few (by definition) enjoy. Sure, there'd be a word-of-mouth pop sensation now and then, but they already happen (Macarena anyone?).
You don't like success unless it's an artist. Then only if they are humble.
Essentially, the artist(s), more precisely the performer(s), are in business for themselves. They get whatever is left over once everyone else is taken care of, in a technical sense.
Even though the artists sometimes ride around in limos and stay at expensive hotels, and have money to do stuff and people to call if they need a loan, the bottom line ends up being negative. And then there are taxes to deal with (or not deal with).
So essentially, the artist(s) is / are, on paper, more or less (an) entrepreneur(s). An entrepreneur that is being bossed around by the people who's salaries he or she (or they) pay. If I hire someone, I should at least be able to tell them what to do, not the other way around.
It is unfortunate, and most people don't realize it until they get involved in it. It's really true, it's a rip-off. Historically, a rip-off with deadly consequences. Now I just speak for my experiences with this, there may very well be some people who can succeed in the music industry and come out the other end better people than they went in, but those kind of people are few and far between. It's a struggle.
I know everyone means well with their suggestions, but I've got over 300 DVDs in my collection. At least 60-70 of them have played just fine on the X-Box. They all play fine on the computers and Sony set-top.
My point is more that the "extras" on some disks already break some players. Additional DRM will further reduce playability, when most of the disks that use copy protection now are just mass-marketting media pulp from US conglomerates.
A good third of my anime disks have no copy protection, yet they don't seem to be suffering on sales. Maybe because most fans aren't the thieves US media thinks, but are just not willing to part with hard-earned dollars for crap that should be priced in the $10-20 range, not $35 and up.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Or even the actors - imagine Mickey and Goofy boot-stomping some kid pinned in a corner just because he wandered into Epcot Center looking for his parents when his pass was only good for Magic Kingdom....
A man who can't pronouce "nuclear arsenal" shouldn't have one -sig ends here.
I laughed, did something stupid like point at him and invited other customers to pet the monkey-boy, and then told him I'd be back in a year.
Funny, he no longer worked there....hmmmm
I love film too much to ever "buy" anything as asnine as DIVX.
Self distructing CDs are not what I or most of the people I know want to spend our hard earned money on, give me something lasting. That's why I want to go to indie shows and buy albums from the bands themselves.
The entertainment world is changing, and, in my opinion, it should become more about the art produced than the money made.
And all of the sudden it went, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, Bleep, and I was like... huh?
It was a really good movie and I had to watch another one and it wasn't as good...
It was like... a bummer...
A closer example is if you got into your car and a block down the street you get pulled over and a cop gives you a ticket for "potential speeding". You weren't but the cop assumes that you could.
Cop now leaves and you are now looking down a long strech of highway. Why wouldn't you speed? You've done the "time", why not do the "crime"?
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Everybody knows that those are vi regular expressions!
The idea of a rip-proof CD amuses me.
:)
Back when the web first started, there were a lot of web-page creators scrambling for ways to make their page viewable, but not able to be saved, printed... whatever. The end conclusion was always the same: "If it can be viewed, it can be printed".
The same goes for "rip-proof" CD's. At some point, it has to be listenable to a human. When that happens, the song is vulnerable to being copied.
The obvious way to do this is just to route your "Line Out" into your "Line In" on your PC and then just have a sound recorder going while your CD plays. Of course, this carries the problem of converting from digital, to analog, and then to digital again.
What's only a little less obvious and a little less difficult (so much so that I can hardly believe I haven't seen it available yet) would be to have a pseudo sound output device. Assuming that the CD would be playable (but not rippable) on a normal PC CD-ROM drive, you could tell your CD player app to use this pseudo sound device as the output. To the app, it would look like a regular sound card (kinda like how Adobe Acrobat appears to be a printer), but it would actually just write the digital data to a file (again, like Acrobat does).
The nice thing here is that, the CD could even be restricted to only being played on a DRM-enabled player. At some point, that player has to send the audio off to what it thinks are speakers. If you have a pseudo device that intercepts the audio, then there you go.
Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if Paladium had components to prevent this... but that's a different story. The point here is that, if you had a pseudo sound card, you could still rip AND keep it all digital. Granted, the rip would happen at 1x... but that's why I have a second PC in my office with lots of games on it.
I had no trouble at all ripping the tracks from a Canadian copy that I got from play.com - using K3B on Linux. See this post.
Always loved that quote. Something about being a mechanical engineer who's good at weapons design.
I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
In the near future, e-mails, spread sheet programs and Webpage content alike will be secured with digital locks.
Why can't people see that an OS that blocks access to music you buy can also block access to your other files? You would think that a reporter would worry about not having control of their writing instruments. In the future, your emails complaining about poor service not only wont' be read, they will dissapear.
cnn has no clue for putting this on the web page:
Copyright 2003 Reuters. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
No wonder they think this is a great idea.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Seriously, though, we should be applauding the small labels that don't inundate with unavoidable crap at the start of a DVD: either via thank-you letters or other means of feedback.
You could've hired me.
No way! corporations (large ones with technical & financial ability anyway) and governments, and hopefully Hospitals, will the be last to utilize this. They all realize that it WILL be crackable, by any government or corp with the facilities to reverse engineer the hardware & software. The DMCA & similar laws now in force in many other countries, only prevents the 'little people' from the ability to utilize the crack themselves.
DVD's will go the way of the do-do (a.k.a. DIVX)
I can't wait to stop buying movies! Oh boy! At the rate of not buying a movie at about every three to four weeks will save me some serious ching.
No protection can stop or even particularly slow down a person who really wants a copy of something -- but it sure does put a substantial dent in fair use. Since fair use actually benefits the copyright holders to the extent that it promotes the ideas of fairness and good will among customers, destroying fair use will hurt customers in the short term, but in the long term will actually only hurt themselves.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
If I can't rip it I can't play it.
If I can't play it I can't view it.
If I need a new DVD player.....
I have a screw driver, a sodering iron, and etchant. What I don't have is unlimited supplys of cash to buy a new player every time some jerk get's a fuzzy up his butt.
I don't actually exist.
... Oh, sorry... I forgot that mp3s automatically lead to piracy, as does cd copying....
.mov, .mpeg, .avi. Every day. In the morning. By yourself. And we all know where that road leads.
;)
That is correct. MP3 is what is known as a "gateway format". Sure, it seems harmless enough. At first.
Before you know it, you're using "harder" formats, such as
Trust in th **AA. They really do know what's best.
If I like something, sooner or later I will own a copy of it. Consider movies: I bought a few copies of movies that I like and I rent a lot more that I don't really like to buy. I noticed that VHS movie prices have plunged and many DVDs are available at reduced rates too so information becomes more and more affordable.
The last time I checked, music prices weren't dropping that much, but that just made me ignore music and spend money on DVDs.
What I really don't like is changing discs. A few CDs are at least 80% likable, but a lot of CDs are only likable for one or two tracks. As a result, I listen to the radio for music even though I bought a lot of CDs over the past years.
However, I would be willing to pay a reasonable amount to any music publisher that can compile discs or downloads that contain only the works that I want. They can throw in a bunch of freebies collected at random to see if I get interested.
I don't have the time or inclination to scour the Internet for scraps that people may happen to make available. It just ends up costing me as much as it would if I were to get it all at once from publishers.
Publishers, if you save people the time it takes to get the good stuff, they will pay for it. Most likely, this kind of service will be readily available at a low enough cost that makes fileshare searches unappealing.
The recording industry shouldn't bother people about whether they are circumventing some kind of copyright technology. Instead, make music interesting. Look at the DVD approach, where consumers are informed with commentary. Music and all kinds of information should be accompanied by extra information. It wouldn't be difficult to add information about the artist's motivation for a song, how the song was played, lyrics, instruments, etc. so that someone can reproduce the music outside the player. Artists can gain support beyond mere sales if they offer a richer experience to consumers.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
'I don't want more choices. I just want better things.' - Edina Monsoon
I'm slowly realising it... Pay TV only has two months left in my household.
" Don't want the government to control you? Leave society and become a hermit"
Y'know, I've been listening to crap like that for over a quarter century now.
Remember this?
"...by the People, for the People..."
IT DID NOT SAY
"by corporations, for corporations"
Sigh.
SB
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
download it from kazaa?
DRM: Just another reason not to pay for music.
It is inevitable. Some of us will have the ability to copy the new media despite the restrictions the government (read businesses) put on us. However, for the vast majority we can expect yet another disposable piece of plastic. Can't we require that any disposable physical media format, should be 100% recyclable and a deposit attached to it.
Might I also add that such a requirement, while reasonable to ask for, would make adoption of any new format more difficult logistically. So this might be a good rallying point to stick it to the industry without getting stuck in the copyright arguments.
[X] Anti-social
[X] Freedom lover
Where do I sign up? :)
No need for the free state project when you can start from scratch with your own floating city.
(Of course, engineering on this scale will become magnitudes easier when bottom-up manufacturing replaces the ages old top-down bulktech.)
--
Power to the Peaceful
I was going to email you this, but, since you have no email addy displayed, I am posting it here. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss this more.
No, I am not in Europe, I live in the United States. I buy the european cds because they often come out months ahead of the US releases. And, since i dj, i need to keep on top of the music
I am not a U.S. citizen (though I lived there for over five years and my son is a U.S. citizen) and while I very much support this petition, would consider it deceitful to sign it as a non-citizen.
I didn't see anything in the Eldred petition about a citizenship requirement. If you're a lawful permanent resident of the United States and subject to its jurisdiction, I feel you have as much right as any citizen to make your views on the copyright terms of no-longer-exploited works known to the leaders that the citizens chose. The First Amendment protects the rights of free speech and petitioning the government for people, not just for citizens. If you're worried about defrauding Congress, clarify in "Comments" that you are subject to the Men in Black.
Will I retire or break 10K?
No sign up form yet unless you happen to either be willing to fund or have experience with either structural engineering, recycling technology, alternative power, hydro/aquaponics, or some similar skills. Funding would actually be the most useful aspect. We're looking into building from materials freely available that can be processed into things we need (or later recycled) but it'd be much easier if we had bootstrap capital.
Our project is moduler unlike Freedom Ship. It's a floating city made of what is in effect giant boat/city legos. It'd be much harder to sink than Freedom Ship for the same reason that it's hard to sink bubble wrap.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
those bloated money-grubbing corporations need to spend more time working on putting out quality products that we'll pay for instead of working on DRM...
As far as music and video is concerned, if you can hear it, and you can see it, you can copy it...Even if they had cd's with DRM, what's to stop you from using the speaker output on the cd-player/stereo to run the audio into a casette deck (for those 80's types) or a cd-recorder or the sound card of your computer and copy it!
some DVDs have copy protection that makes them behave retarded if the output goes through a VCR before it goes into the TV...that's what RF modulators are for...
Like I said, if you can see it and hear it, you can copy it...
--- I'm just rambling...
I have a fairly large collection of CDs and I listen to them at home - but I also like to listen to them at work. What I have done is convert my favourite CDs into OGG and put them on my work computer. These are not shared and only for my use (100% legal as these are a one-off backup for my own use). However recently I purchased Massive Attack 100th Window which has this copy protection crap on it. Result - I cannot listen to this CD in work and hence listen to it much less often.
I do not intend to buy any more CDs which have been copy protected as I simply view them as a waste of my money as I listen to them significantly less than my other non-protected versions.
Ravaged by piracy
They'll be in the workhouse anyday now unless they get DRM sorted. U think they had actually lost most of their sales with a comment like that.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
woodstoves(cooking/heating alternative), etc....
Wood stoves can be made from almost anything, steel, clay or just a hole in the ground.
Cooking:
Dig a hole in the ground
Build a fire
Put rocks on the fire and leave for a while.
cover the hole.
Boiling:
Dig a hole in the ground
Fill hole with water
Build a fire
Put rocks on the fire and leave for a while.
Throw rocks in the water.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I sat backed and looked at my computer desk and my entertainment center one day and realized the contents of the computer desk were less valuable that the audio/video stuff. I went out the next day and bought an additional UPS for the entertainment stuff. The power went out a while back when I was watching TV and I didn't even notice right away. The only light I had on was at the computer so nothing even blinked. After a while, I noticed the rest of the house was really quiet (my upper end hearing is shot so I didn't hear the tiny beep from the UPS's). Kind of weird getting up and looking out the front door. Not a single light visible for about a mile.
Profanity - The sign of a small mind trying to express itself.
I'm the opposite way: I ripped all my CDs to mp3s, backed 'em up on some CDs and my entertainment server, and sold the originals. Couldn't care about the art or the liner notes or the lyrics sheets. I have my music, I'm happy.
He stole the intellectual property of the artists by keeping the content after selling the disk!
To gain rights to the content you must buy the right to a copy hence the term âa copyrightâ(TM). The right has a âfair useâ(TM) aspect. Once you buy the right to a copy you own it with a limited license.
1. You have a right to protect your copy by making a or many backups but you cannot redistribute the backups.
2. You have a right to convert the copy into a more convenient format but you cannot redistribute the converted copies.
3. You have a right to give your copy away, or sell it or destroy it but you must dispose of all backups
or converted copies when you do!
What he did is the same as buying a book, then scanning all the pages and selling the book. To gain fair use rights to a book you have to own the book. All fair usage rights leave when you sell, give away, throw away your copy. To have any right to the music you must own a copy of the original media.
Damn straight. I've been ripping every single CD into a hi-bitrate MP3 as soon as I buy it. Talk about convenience of having your entire CD collection on your PC hooked to home theatre and even workplace.
Some of those so-called copy protected CDs have such lame small warning label it's efficiently hid by the store CD-holder.. They rip still just fine. And I take them back just because they tried to deceive me by hiding the label.
Dude.. you've paid your tax/levy/tith/suppository/whatever to the ARIA/MPAA.
Should they 'catch' you downloading and drag you to court, you just need to display your receipts with the 'TAX: $0.21' and say "I've paid them!".
Bing! This is called pre-paid. You might like to point out while you are there that there are more uses to blank CDRs than to infringe copyrights.
One more point: If they are stupid enough to accuse you of 'piracy' then get your lawyer to have the charge dropped - try looking up the definition of 'piracy' sometime.
I just would prefer the copyright holder to be the person that CREATED it, instead of some corporationâ¦
/kÅrp-Är-Ä-shâ®n / noun. An organization formed with state governmental approval to act as an artificial person to carry on business (or other activities). QED corporations are people too.
The copyright holders are initially the persons that created the work. They sell the copyright to the material before creation via a thing called a ârecording contractâ(TM) or a âpublishing contractâ(TM) or after creation by a sales contract. If they have some leverage, they can sometimes get a contract providing for a residual off of every copy sold. If they have a lot leverage, they keep the right and only license the material for distribution. Usually they sell the rights for a fixed fee. For music, the sale usually occurs before producing the work. The right then belongs to who ever bought it. Your complaint about the creator of a work not keeping their copyrights is moot. They choose to sell the right. Your complain is really about the short sightedness of the creators not the end owners of the copyright being corporations.
BTW corporation
Why don't the publishers jump on kazaa and grab a batch of IP addresses of people hosting mp3s and use the DMCA?
It's simple to answer that one. It's too much work. Haven't you been following the Verison case? Add to the mix dialup, realocation of dynamic IP addresses, Lack of detailed logs by some ISP's, Lack of cooperation by ISP's, Proxies, Gateways, country / political / corporate boundries, etc. It would be like tracking down and suing every spammer that sent you spam. Not an easy task. They are simply looking for an easy to use effective tool to kill filesharing. So what if you loose some drops of blood in the battle, they are trying to keep from bleeding to death. A Band Aid (TM) and and Asprin (TM) isn't going to fix the problem and they know it.
The truth shall set you free!
My extended FOTR plays fine in my Xbox but I can understand your situation.
I have a few discs that do not play in my Xbox. I usually just throw them into the PS2 to watch them. One disc in particular, "Excel Saga Vol 1" has played fine in 2 PCs, 3 PS2s, a standalone DVD player, and 2 other Xboxes. Honestly, I wouldn't have that big of a problem with things if the disc didn't play in those other Xboxes.
Microsoft has "tried" to fix my Xbox 3 times. I gave up with them and just purchased a DVD player. Good luck if you want to try to have yours repaired.
I am now in Canada
Have you explained the issue to your MP, that you don't want the Canadian Parliament to make the same mistakes as the EU and US legislatures in extending copyright terms?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Come on, people, not everything has to be negative about all this copy-protection stuff. In fact, I favor it! Why? Because I want this "land of the free and home of the brave" to realize that in fact this is a "land of the unprivileged and home of the slaves." May be this dick move will show our fat-assed fellow Americans that its time to start voting, thinking, and disregarding horse shit Hollywood calls entertainment industry. Do you hear this, you MTV and E! fans? Hollywood, Sony, Disney, Fox... they own you.
I remember watching The Running Man and wondering why would anybody want to have an underground TV/Radio stations that oppose to mass media. Now I know why.
No, I have no intention of "repairing" it because it's only having trouble with the one disk. Aside from that, it's just a toy, not my main DVD player. It just happens to be the one I take on road trips, as it does more than play DVDs (and costs about 1/2 the price of my DVD player -- just in case it gets stolen from the hotel or otherwise lost/damaged.)
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Listen to bands that offer their music for free download, tell your friends about the ones you like, and when you can, buy tickets and go to their concerts. That's how the system is going to work in the future.
There are lot more musicians wanting to be famous than there are marketing slots in record company catalogs. The only thing stopping these bands from using the Internet to completely bypass the record companies is that most of them don't understand how to do it yet. 10 years ago that was the only thing stopping businesses from having websites.
Fry Sharing