"The problem with Linux is that, it's not as pretty as windows. And mose users just want something that's really pretty when they turn it on. And quite honestly if your computer already comes with XP on it, there is no point to downgrade to a Linux distro."
If you believe Windows is "prettier" than Linux, you should get yourself a copy of RH 8.0 and take about 5 minutes to play with themes. Take a sec to go download some more, and notice how your entire interface can look like Mac, Windows, OS/2, chrome, wood, sparkly colors, etc. All of the folks that I know who use Linux (fellow developers, friends, even my folks at home) think it looks much better than Windows. Linux can't be called ugly.
And regarding your "downgrade" to Linux comment, if you're referring to program compatibility, I can't argue. If you're talking about features, speed, etc., you need to use linux [again].
I'm a developer by trade and a sysadmin in my spare time. I read all sorts of documents and files, I do graphics and organize all of my data, check weather, etc. The only thing I need Windows for is games. And if you think this is only possible because I'm a developer, I'll refer to you my parents, college friends, non-programmer co-workers, etc. for references.
This is greedy because it forgets all of the people in this country who've helped create the market as it stands. These companies wouldn't be nearly as big if it were not for the American people, and collectively, they're shipping many jobs off-shore and leaving Americans without jobs. It will only bite them in the ass later.
If this trend continues (/chuckle) America will merely be a land of Middle Management and CEOs.;)
" But Windows is a desktop OS, so there's no real reason to port it to any of those platforms. It surely could be done, but why?"
(Best Bones impression): Dear God, man!
1) Windows is not just a desktop OS. Go drink some coffee. Windows 2000 Server ring a bell? =) IIS ring a bell? Whether it's a good server is another thread. Anyway, there are surely people who would like to put Windows up as a server on an old UNIX server running some archaic architecture. And using some old, beefy-in-their-day servers as desktops isn't all that bad of an idea.
2) Windows, as a desktop, would be useful o n architechtures such as PowerPC, Alpha, Sparc, etc. There are, amazingly, desktops out there that don't use x86! *shock*
I applaud your way of doing things; if I were in charge, I'd say the same thing, to a point (programs that are used rarely don't need to be perfect, IMO). However, given my experience with other programmers who take the "Go go go go go, done. Next?" approach to their assignments, I find that work gets done quickly, gets out the door and gets good money in relatively short time. Whether the expense of paying people like me (I'm a Software Analyst, I fix software problems [lots of code surfing]) is worth it in the end, I don't know, but I do stay quite busy.
Managers, deadlines, revenue, program flexibility... how are these affected by your way of doing things? What has been your experience with this?
Aye. That's also what makes it fun. You stand back and look at your gear and abilities and feel a sense of accomplishment. Not only that, if you can actually enjoy playing the game and getting all that new shiny stuff, it makes for a fun experience.
I play the game to travel to cool places, each with their own feel. I play it to enjoy the risks and the rewards. Getting new stuff only makes overcoming said obstacles even more fun.
Thankfully, I'm not so drawn into the game that I can't have a social life. =)
"That concept applies whenever any rational person is in a position to judge another's conduct based on evidence provided by a supposedly-injured party."
Read the article summary. They're worried about security issues, e.g. Government spyware, that old, wonderful conspiracy theory. Remember that variable nsa_key? =P
Microsoft is just trying to compete with Linux. It can half-way adopt some of Linux's practices (shared source) and combine that with Microsoft's reputation and necessity (office, etc.) to keep themselves in the market.
"I mean, who cares about what some foolish child did years ago? Who cares about what those people are doing today? Personally, I couldn't care less."
I'm probably repeating someone else, but ignoring this whole thing isn't the solution. I'm not advocating holding a grudge (I'm very easy to forgive, myself), but if you have kids, it's a good problem to analyze.
I might not be getting the same picture you are, but every "common user" distro I've installed has been around as difficult as a Win 98 install. And no fuss with installing all of the other programs you need (Winamp, etc.), you have multiple options on the CD with most distros.
If you're looking for something that's easy to maintain, and don't mind having your computer down for a week, you might consider giving Gentoo (gentoo.org) a try. It is difficult to set up (a good bit of hand-configuration), but the docs are easy to follow (you pretty much just type in what they tell you along with configuring a handful of files). Anyway, once you get it up, that's the payoff. The Portage system is extremely nice. Type "emerge xine-ui xine-dvdnav" and you've got a media player that will play any common video format (DVD included) besides Real. "emerge realone" (I think that's the ebuild name) and you're set the rest of the way.
As far as system maintenance goes, I seriously think Gentoo has got to be one of the bst. But that's me. =)
Methinks you're reading the folks on Slashdot who are into what they do.
1) Reading rants about how good the new [car brand] [model]s are coming from some car nut is going to sound like zealotry. It's a passion. Get over it. =)
2) From reading news articles talking about the future, etc., my distinct impression is that most of the "notable" OSS folks are very well grounded in reality. They love what they do, but they realize that it's not going to be dominating for a few years (although Linux is doing very well in server market growth and in the server market in general).
I find it a bit hard to buy that Gates doesn't care about Linux. His history shows him to be a guy who wants his work running on every computer in the world. He's obviously just a geek who loves playing with new things, but I find it hard to believe that he just decided to "not care" whether folks run Word or not.
Maybe he's just getting older? Maybe I'm not paying enough attention?
I'm sure this won't get noticed and I'll bet I'm repeating something else, but here's some more gas on the fire:
Put as many options as you possibly can in there. And then some. Let the user custimize his system to his personal tastes so that when he clicks "Login" he feels at home.
On the other hand, to reduce system bloat, only install/run/use good defaults. I wouldn't mind the features of Windows if they didn't decide to turn them all on by default, and the same goes for other OSes as well.
The idea that you can't have many options and little bloat is a myth. Good defaults make it possible, and all developers should understand this.
That's the thing I love about open source: all of the derivations that spring up. Many different browser programs, many different IM programs, email, news, yadda yadda yadda. And a distro/desktop/wm to fit most people's style.
If you care enough, you choose; if not, taking the most popular distro (in the US, Red Hat seems to take the cake) and using their good defaults works perfectly.
The cool thing about (most) Gentoo folks is that, like Linus, they just don't care. They want a system that they can use, be damned whoever doesn't care. If it helps convince you, I work with a Gentoo developer. =)
The best leaders are those who lead with or without followers.
"So much open source software tends to be writter by students with little experience"
Yes, this is the case with some peripheral programs. Servers, core programs, drivers, etc., are written by pro programmers or by very good college programmers who don't fall into your "students with little experience" category.
"It looks like you meant to write the traditional "cleanup code" example, but your pseudocode does not make sense."
I missed the else { return } on the first block. And noting about your pseudocode, that is not the way it was intended. a == "a condition", a != "the resource". The error handling for resource1 = somefunction() is not shown for the sake of simplicity, although there is a good case for including it.
--- "The example of cleanup statements is an insufficient argument for allowing goto into a language. That problem can be solved with try/catch exception handlers, or final{} blocks, or even a special limited-goto which can only jump forward to the top-level of the same function."
To be honest, I hadn't considered a try/catch block, however the language has to support it (I'm making the case for the _use_ of goto, not the inclusion in the language). Even moreso, many times a goto appeals to the style of certain programmers (often linear programmers, as opposed to OOP programmers).
--- "A real goto statement, however, can do many more things that just jump to the postscript of a function. It can jump forwards, backwards, to/from the bodies of loops and other functions- in short, it can make your program enormously more difficult to understand, analyze, or optimize."
I agree; a limited goto as you described would make much more sense as any other use of one would be needlessly complex, IMO.
--- "But restricting programmers to only use a feature in a few certain ways is less reliable than restricting the language to offer only safer, alternative features."
Now imagine this with gotos. Write cleanup statements only once == easier to maintain. Less code == easier to fit in the L1 cache (important when developing a kernel).
"Gotos are bad" is just FUD; I'm sad to see it come from professors.
"or right clicking the sites listed when you hit the arrow next to the back button."
Add: to bring up a menu to open the link in a new tab, etc. Want to open a page in your history in a new tab without clicking back 5 times and waiting for the page to load, then clicking forward 5 times? *click click*
Another feature I'm curious to see when Microsoft will pick up is the select & paste feature of X Windows (I believe this is handled at the X level?). Select some text and middle-click. You've just copied and pasted. Wicked good.
Oh, the euphoria might never go away. =P I regularly marvel at my entire system (Gentoo Linux) in general, and I've been using Linux for almost 3 years now. Galeon, the web browser I use, absolutely amazes me; they've got every feature I want, whether it's mouse gestures or right clicking the sites listed when you hit the arrow next to the back button.
I'm the same way regarding webpages; middle-click for about 20 seconds and then just browse. Like virtual desktops, I wonder how long it will take Microsoft to catch on to this awesome feature.
Slashdot Mirror
"The problem with Linux is that, it's not as pretty as windows. And mose users just want something that's really pretty when they turn it on. And quite honestly if your computer already comes with XP on it, there is no point to downgrade to a Linux distro."
If you believe Windows is "prettier" than Linux, you should get yourself a copy of RH 8.0 and take about 5 minutes to play with themes. Take a sec to go download some more, and notice how your entire interface can look like Mac, Windows, OS/2, chrome, wood, sparkly colors, etc. All of the folks that I know who use Linux (fellow developers, friends, even my folks at home) think it looks much better than Windows. Linux can't be called ugly.
And regarding your "downgrade" to Linux comment, if you're referring to program compatibility, I can't argue. If you're talking about features, speed, etc., you need to use linux [again].
I'm a developer by trade and a sysadmin in my spare time. I read all sorts of documents and files, I do graphics and organize all of my data, check weather, etc. The only thing I need Windows for is games. And if you think this is only possible because I'm a developer, I'll refer to you my parents, college friends, non-programmer co-workers, etc. for references.
This is greedy because it forgets all of the people in this country who've helped create the market as it stands. These companies wouldn't be nearly as big if it were not for the American people, and collectively, they're shipping many jobs off-shore and leaving Americans without jobs. It will only bite them in the ass later.
;)
If this trend continues (/chuckle) America will merely be a land of Middle Management and CEOs.
God save us.
" But Windows is a desktop OS, so there's no real reason to port it to any of those platforms. It surely could be done, but why?"
(Best Bones impression): Dear God, man!
1) Windows is not just a desktop OS. Go drink some coffee. Windows 2000 Server ring a bell? =) IIS ring a bell? Whether it's a good server is another thread. Anyway, there are surely people who would like to put Windows up as a server on an old UNIX server running some archaic architecture. And using some old, beefy-in-their-day servers as desktops isn't all that bad of an idea.
2) Windows, as a desktop, would be useful o n architechtures such as PowerPC, Alpha, Sparc, etc. There are, amazingly, desktops out there that don't use x86! *shock*
I applaud your way of doing things; if I were in charge, I'd say the same thing, to a point (programs that are used rarely don't need to be perfect, IMO). However, given my experience with other programmers who take the "Go go go go go, done. Next?" approach to their assignments, I find that work gets done quickly, gets out the door and gets good money in relatively short time. Whether the expense of paying people like me (I'm a Software Analyst, I fix software problems [lots of code surfing]) is worth it in the end, I don't know, but I do stay quite busy.
Managers, deadlines, revenue, program flexibility... how are these affected by your way of doing things? What has been your experience with this?
Aye. That's also what makes it fun. You stand back and look at your gear and abilities and feel a sense of accomplishment. Not only that, if you can actually enjoy playing the game and getting all that new shiny stuff, it makes for a fun experience.
I play the game to travel to cool places, each with their own feel. I play it to enjoy the risks and the rewards. Getting new stuff only makes overcoming said obstacles even more fun.
Thankfully, I'm not so drawn into the game that I can't have a social life. =)
"That concept applies whenever any rational person is in a position to judge another's conduct based on evidence provided by a supposedly-injured party."
;)
Yes, and like he said, this is a civil court.
blech...
:P)
Chalk another one up to lack of sleep.
Sorry for wasting everyone's bandwidth (twice
What good does it do?
Read the article summary. They're worried about security issues, e.g. Government spyware, that old, wonderful conspiracy theory. Remember that variable nsa_key? =P
Microsoft is just trying to compete with Linux. It can half-way adopt some of Linux's practices (shared source) and combine that with Microsoft's reputation and necessity (office, etc.) to keep themselves in the market.
MS doesn't need to go all the way to stay on top.
Yours truly,
A Linux Fan
"I mean, who cares about what some foolish child did years ago? Who cares about what those people are doing today? Personally, I couldn't care less."
I'm probably repeating someone else, but ignoring this whole thing isn't the solution. I'm not advocating holding a grudge (I'm very easy to forgive, myself), but if you have kids, it's a good problem to analyze.
I hope I'm not reading your comment wrong.
I might not be getting the same picture you are, but every "common user" distro I've installed has been around as difficult as a Win 98 install. And no fuss with installing all of the other programs you need (Winamp, etc.), you have multiple options on the CD with most distros.
If you're looking for something that's easy to maintain, and don't mind having your computer down for a week, you might consider giving Gentoo (gentoo.org) a try. It is difficult to set up (a good bit of hand-configuration), but the docs are easy to follow (you pretty much just type in what they tell you along with configuring a handful of files). Anyway, once you get it up, that's the payoff. The Portage system is extremely nice. Type "emerge xine-ui xine-dvdnav" and you've got a media player that will play any common video format (DVD included) besides Real. "emerge realone" (I think that's the ebuild name) and you're set the rest of the way.
As far as system maintenance goes, I seriously think Gentoo has got to be one of the bst. But that's me. =)
Feel free to email me if you'd like a hand.
Just to point out the obvious, Matrox's drivers aren't competing with Microsoft.
When Microsoft updates my installation of Mozilla, I'll be happy. =P
No, but take a minute to read the quotes in that article and in other articles and interviews and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Methinks you're reading the folks on Slashdot who are into what they do.
1) Reading rants about how good the new [car brand] [model]s are coming from some car nut is going to sound like zealotry. It's a passion. Get over it. =)
2) From reading news articles talking about the future, etc., my distinct impression is that most of the "notable" OSS folks are very well grounded in reality. They love what they do, but they realize that it's not going to be dominating for a few years (although Linux is doing very well in server market growth and in the server market in general).
I find it a bit hard to buy that Gates doesn't care about Linux. His history shows him to be a guy who wants his work running on every computer in the world. He's obviously just a geek who loves playing with new things, but I find it hard to believe that he just decided to "not care" whether folks run Word or not.
Maybe he's just getting older? Maybe I'm not paying enough attention?
"Yeah, kinda like when NewsForge does a piece on Alan Cox or Linus Torvalds."
Except most OSS folks (talking about Linus here, not NF) are quite realistic, as opposed to Microsoft which has a habit of outright lying.
I'm sure this won't get noticed and I'll bet I'm repeating something else, but here's some more gas on the fire:
Put as many options as you possibly can in there. And then some. Let the user custimize his system to his personal tastes so that when he clicks "Login" he feels at home.
On the other hand, to reduce system bloat, only install/run/use good defaults. I wouldn't mind the features of Windows if they didn't decide to turn them all on by default, and the same goes for other OSes as well.
The idea that you can't have many options and little bloat is a myth. Good defaults make it possible, and all developers should understand this.
That's the thing I love about open source: all of the derivations that spring up. Many different browser programs, many different IM programs, email, news, yadda yadda yadda. And a distro/desktop/wm to fit most people's style.
If you care enough, you choose; if not, taking the most popular distro (in the US, Red Hat seems to take the cake) and using their good defaults works perfectly.
The cool thing about (most) Gentoo folks is that, like Linus, they just don't care. They want a system that they can use, be damned whoever doesn't care. If it helps convince you, I work with a Gentoo developer. =)
The best leaders are those who lead with or without followers.
"So much open source software tends to be writter by students with little experience"
Yes, this is the case with some peripheral programs. Servers, core programs, drivers, etc., are written by pro programmers or by very good college programmers who don't fall into your "students with little experience" category.
"It looks like you meant to write the traditional "cleanup code" example, but your pseudocode does not make sense."
I missed the else { return } on the first block. And noting about your pseudocode, that is not the way it was intended. a == "a condition", a != "the resource". The error handling for resource1 = somefunction() is not shown for the sake of simplicity, although there is a good case for including it.
---
"The example of cleanup statements is an insufficient argument for allowing goto into a language. That problem can be solved with try/catch exception handlers, or final{} blocks, or even a special limited-goto which can only jump forward to the top-level of the same function."
To be honest, I hadn't considered a try/catch block, however the language has to support it (I'm making the case for the _use_ of goto, not the inclusion in the language). Even moreso, many times a goto appeals to the style of certain programmers (often linear programmers, as opposed to OOP programmers).
---
"A real goto statement, however, can do many more things that just jump to the postscript of a function. It can jump forwards, backwards, to/from the bodies of loops and other functions- in short, it can make your program enormously more difficult to understand, analyze, or optimize."
I agree; a limited goto as you described would make much more sense as any other use of one would be needlessly complex, IMO.
---
"But restricting programmers to only use a feature in a few certain ways is less reliable than restricting the language to offer only safer, alternative features."
Agreed.
Aye. Imagine this:
.... repeat ad nasauem.
if (a) {
resource1 = somefunction();
}
if (b) {
resource2 = somefunction();
} else {
close(resource1);
return;
}
if (c)
Now imagine this with gotos. Write cleanup statements only once == easier to maintain. Less code == easier to fit in the L1 cache (important when developing a kernel).
"Gotos are bad" is just FUD; I'm sad to see it come from professors.
Not that it matters, but to me:
Nerd: General description of a social outcast who enjoys tech and science, math, etc.
Geek: The nerd who can't keep his hands off of anything.
That's always the trait of good software:
/end potential rant
You think of a feature, try it out, and it's already there.
To be honest, I usually only find this with open source software.
I just realized this isn't clear:
"or right clicking the sites listed when you hit the arrow next to the back button."
Add: to bring up a menu to open the link in a new tab, etc. Want to open a page in your history in a new tab without clicking back 5 times and waiting for the page to load, then clicking forward 5 times? *click click*
Another feature I'm curious to see when Microsoft will pick up is the select & paste feature of X Windows (I believe this is handled at the X level?). Select some text and middle-click. You've just copied and pasted. Wicked good.
Oh, the euphoria might never go away. =P I regularly marvel at my entire system (Gentoo Linux) in general, and I've been using Linux for almost 3 years now. Galeon, the web browser I use, absolutely amazes me; they've got every feature I want, whether it's mouse gestures or right clicking the sites listed when you hit the arrow next to the back button.
I'm the same way regarding webpages; middle-click for about 20 seconds and then just browse. Like virtual desktops, I wonder how long it will take Microsoft to catch on to this awesome feature.