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SCO Protest And Anti-Protest In Provo
a.ameri writes "On Friday, June 20, the Provo Linux Users Group decided to head on over to SCO's offices and hold a protest; information on the event, including pictures and press coverage, can be found on
the PLUG page. Among other things, the protesters claim that SCO employes came out and joined the event holding pre-prepared signs saying things like 'I love software piracy' and 'Try communism - use Linux.'" There are some funny shots linked here (thanks to reader lucif latum). Daddio64 points to the press covereage in the Deseret News and Provo Daily Herald.
Slashdot - stealing LWN stories for fun and profit since 1998
SCO Unix is a pain in the ass to use and the sooner it dies the better. Never mind the companies attitude, SCO Unix sucks!
You're a corporation. You're supposed to keep quite and smirk at protesters. You do not allow your employees to come out and hold their own "anti protest", especially when a large percentage of the computing world think you're unbalanced anyway!
Earth to SCO. SCO come in now...I think we lost 'em.
Maybe all this SCO stuff should be placed under its own topic. That would make ignoring it a lot easier.
Got bandwidth? Mad at SCO? Download a 5mb file from here or launch an unspecified number of wget processes:
wget sco.com/images/pdf/eserver/eserver_sysadmin.pdf
This will teach you to administrate the SCO OpenLinux server, the only officially novell-compatible Linux distribution.
"Among other things, the protesters claim that SCO employes came out and joined the event holding pre-prepared signs saying things like 'I love software piracy' and 'Try communism - use Linux."
I guess SCO really isn't ashamed to outright astroturf.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Your prize is my fabulous nutz all up in ya mouf, baby!
MMMmmmmMMM Nutz!
I wonder how many SCO employees are actually pro-linux, but are afraid to say anything, against their own company......
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
At first when I read about signs saying Linux is communist, I thought it was Slashdot trolls protesting. :)
Userfriendly has modified a Gary Larson (Farside) comic to fit SCO! It's quite funny!
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
The signs made do not represent the staff of the current Operation, those signs look like they were made by the child with the "SUE ME I USE LINUX" sign.
You mods just enjoy modding people down more than up. If this were by an SC it would be an instant +5 funny.
Either the anti-protesters are invisible, or just really really tiny. Surely they aren't cowards?
It this really the image these people want to project?
Too bad I'm not an SCO shareholder. Maybe I could sue SCO management for permitting such stupid childishness on company time.
Remove the caps and hold to a mirror.
I'm getting a bit dizzy. I can't tell the spin from the sarcasm anymore. Any chance the fine folks from SomethingAwful are behind any of this?
Ryan Fenton
http://www.chipzilla.org/?article=10117
Just wondering: Since some of those signs seem to imply that Linus is a thief, I wonder if he can now sue SCO for defamation???
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Wouldn't be more effective to combine anti-SCO activity and a twice daily /. SCO story by just changing all links to those stories to the SCO site and bankrupt them with high bandwith costs?
wow. even the employees are tards.
Helt galet bajsnÃdig. Usch!
From the LWN page: This is sad... (Posted Jun 22, 2003 20:47 UTC (Sun) by erat) (Post reply) No, not the SCO folks who made the signs... It's the people who don't have a shred of humor left and, more importantly, weren't even there who seem to be take everything SCO employees touch as being an insult. I work across the street from SCO. I was at the protest. At one point, I was one of the people carrying a SCO-produced sign (as a JOKE. At one point I even saw picketters holding SCO signs). If you were there you'd know that the entire event -- albeit serious in its message -- was taken in good spirits by pretty much everyone. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously though the SCO signs were meant to be anything but fun. You remember FUN, don't you?? It's like when you're in a bar watching a football game and there are folks rooting for the other team in the bar with you; friendly "traitor" jabs are tossed back and forth, joking insinuations are made, and in the end you all laugh together and say "bye" when you leave. Here are some facts that some (all?) of you didn't get from the pictures: 1) It was very hot that day so Canopy provided drinks for everyone, including the protesters. And yes, protesters took them up on the drinks, and they even said "thanks". 2) SCO and Canopy employees (including Ralph Yarro and Darl McBride, among others) shared laughs with the picketters. No, I didn't see Chris Sontag or Blake Stowell out there, but I don't know them so I could have just missed them. 3) Darl, on his way home, stopped by the picketting near 1600 N. (he didn't have to; he could have driven by and nobody would have noticed) and chatted with the protesters. There are at least two pictures of him with his arms around a few of the protesters, and all of them are happy. Sorry folks, but other than a reporter who got heat stroke, the people who showed up had a good time. The folks there mixed with SCO, Canopy, etc. employees from around the office complex, had some fun with the "rivalry", and went on their merry way happy. At least that was my observation. The intent of the protest was to bring attention to the opinions of those who oppose SCO's actions, not to threaten, throw things, fight, or yell. In that regard, the protest was more successful than I would have hoped. Nobody walked away with a different opinion of SCO's actions, but people can disagree without hating each other. At least here in Utah they can.
wait so..they whipped out side by side linux and unix code WITHOUT you signing an NDA? I think thats is the exact negligence needed to void their rights to that code...hey I mean testify in court that you have a photographic memmory, just make sure to do it AFTER they show the code to the court hehe.
Bottles.
Amazing that you get modded down as well. You make a dam good point. All see you all in Meta.
SCO?
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be !
it's hard not to feel a little sentimental when you see good old Commie Scare posters.
Guess the employees protesting felt akin to the Iraqs cheering Sadam at his strolling casual thru streets of Baghdad TV shows.
Help fight continental drift.
Wouldn't SCO employees be better advised to write their resumees, instead of protesting. They probably will have to get new jobs soon. Not that they seem busy doing anything else.
And it doesn't matter whether SCO wins or loses. They seem to be an IP (not that they ever created any) only company now and would probably not need many employees, except for lawyers.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
...for these SCO employees when they try to get Linux-related jobs after SCO goes belly-up.
'Try communism - use Linux.'"
Does it mean that I can't nickname SCO the Soviet Communist Operation anymore? :(
+ + + +
In truth I don't have anything against communist at all... well, in the country where I live, communism is something that would be better to encourage a bit more (hint: it's a western country with a madman chief of government obsessed with delusions of communist conspiracies trying to get him)
Also the economy is really stagnating, with companies trying to hire people for really brief amount of times, a rise in the "black jobs" (unregulated jobs with no taxes being payed on them), and major cuts on the wellfare state.
+ + + +
Ok, let's return to the point of the article...
it's good to have some groups of users tacking a civil protest to tell their upset against SCO's FUD tactics (not requests, maybe they are simply right from a legal standpoint, it's the tactic that SUCK anyway and in my opinion will not bring the IT market on SCO's side).
I'm wondering when we will begin to send them postcards or polite mails telling Darl and the others our opinion on the subject. :)
Anyone volounteering to do a first draft of a letter?
(My english sucks) + + + +
Finally SCO made the slashdot headlines again
LET'S MODERATE SCO DOWN!!!
"I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
I don't want to interrupt a perfectly good rant here, but you may want to follow the link in comment #6269021 (should be the FP in this thread if you're reading at a reasonable score treshold...). Idiotic though the whole SCO lawsuit is, the protest and counter-protest actually seemede quite friendly -- to quote a poster on the aforementioned LWN board:
It's the people who don't have a shred of humor left and, more importantly, weren't even there who seem to be take everything SCO employees touch as being an insult.
I work across the street from SCO. I was at the protest. At one point, I was one of the people carrying a SCO-produced sign (as a JOKE. At one point I even saw picketters holding SCO signs). If you were there you'd know that the entire event -- albeit serious in its message -- was taken in good spirits by pretty much everyone. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously though the SCO signs were meant to be anything but fun.
You remember FUN, don't you?? It's like when you're in a bar watching a football game and there are folks rooting for the other team in the bar with you; friendly "traitor" jabs are tossed back and forth, joking insinuations are made, and in the end you all laugh together and say "bye" when you leave.
You may want to read the rest of that message as well, and just give it a rest... Not if Slashdot hasn't dumped enough vitriol on SCO already lately.
SCO still sucks.
those anti-protest signs look very racist. contrast them to the well thought out ones held by the LUG folks...
For a minute I thought we were going to go the whole day without an article related to SCO! I'll sleep well tonight.
I stumled upon a comment (from some user erat) at http://lwn.net/Articles/37364/ :
"I work across the street from SCO. I was at the protest. At one point, I was one of the people carrying a SCO-produced sign (as a JOKE. At one point I even saw picketters holding SCO signs). If you were there you'd know that the entire event -- albeit serious in its message -- was taken in good spirits by pretty much everyone. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously though the SCO signs were meant to be anything but fun.
You remember FUN, don't you?? It's like when you're in a bar watching a football game and there are folks rooting for the other team in the bar with you; friendly "traitor" jabs are tossed back and forth, joking insinuations are made, and in the end you all laugh together and say "bye" when you leave.
Here are some facts that some (all?) of you didn't get from the pictures:
1) It was very hot that day so Canopy provided drinks for everyone, including the protesters. And yes, protesters took them up on the drinks, and they even said "thanks".
2) SCO and Canopy employees (including Ralph Yarro and Darl McBride, among others) shared laughs with the picketters. No, I didn't see Chris Sontag or Blake Stowell out there, but I don't know them so I could have just missed them.
3) Darl, on his way home, stopped by the picketting near 1600 N. (he didn't have to; he could have driven by and nobody would have noticed) and chatted with the protesters. There are at least two pictures of him with his arms around a few of the protesters, and all of them are happy.
Sorry folks, but other than a reporter who got heat stroke, the people who showed up had a good time. The folks there mixed with SCO, Canopy, etc. employees from around the office complex, had some fun with the "rivalry", and went on their merry way happy. At least that was my observation.
The intent of the protest was to bring attention to the opinions of those who oppose SCO's actions, not to threaten, throw things, fight, or yell. In that regard, the protest was more successful than I would have hoped. Nobody walked away with a different opinion of SCO's actions, but people can disagree without hating each other.
At least here in Utah they can."
Seems to put the SCO-signs in another perspective.
I owe the Slashdot crowd an apology. Seeing that type of behaviour here, I thought it was a thousands high schoolers bashing away at a thousand library computers on their first, euphoric Internet high. But damn, professional adults stoop to this kind of bigoted, ad hominem baiting? Communism and Iraq? And France? Man, that's unbelievably depressing. All I can hope is potential future employers of these people see those signs before SCO does it's inevitable endo.
In this pic you can see that Darl McBride has his arms around two of the protestors:
http://mirror.lug-nut.com/mcnabb/med/IMG_0057.JPG
In the sign on the right in this picture:
e st -Pages/Image0.html
http://www.kuwan.net/scoAntiProtest/scoAntiProt
Is rather amusing. Not only do the folks at SCO apparently not have internet access, so they can use something like babelfish to look up the proper spelling of "ja vol" (ja wohl) they also seem to think Nazi's were communist instead of fascist?
Someone didn't do to well in their WW2 history class!
considering the fact SCO was selling their own LINUX distribution till recently. Now suddenly Linux = Communism. Stupid slogan, which reminds me the joke I saw somewhere, may be on theonion: 'If you download MP3, you support communism". Is this life immitating art or what?
This would seem to be a bad thing for a company in SCO's position to be doing; I hope Mr. Cooper pursues the matter to court.
Wow, just reading the banners and recent comments from the SCO scumbags, it infuriates me more than anything I've seen from them before now. They're accusing people of taking a free ride when those people wrote the software. They're saying Linux just won't be free in future, misunderstanding the meaning of freedom, while showing their true intent. The only folks wanting a free ride are those at SCO who failed in their business and decided to litigate against people who wrote the competing software, none of which was ever created by SCO (formerly Caldera).
Who is really out for a free ride here? What a bunch of opportunistic scumbags, now theyr'e trying to push a deceptive media campaign with willfully deceptive comments that portray people in a collaborative software effort as pirates.
How dare they equate using Linux as the equivalent of piracy of any kind. If anyone is acting like pirates it's them. This is a brazen attempt to take something that simply does not belong to them.
Wow, talk about unprofessional conduct!
Many if not all of SCO's SEC documents are online as PDFs.
I wonder what the cost is to SCO each time someone downloads (for instance) the Statement of Changes of Beneficial Ownership. Maybe you're interested in "changes of ownership" high muckymucks in SCO itself think are worth making. There's also the most recent quarterly report as well as many others.
Where's the SCO pun ?
but you may want to follow the link in comment #6269021 (should be the FP in this thread if you're reading at a reasonable score treshold...).
Hey moron- you do realize that people can change the ordering around, right? In fact, if you don't have yours set to "highest scores first" then you are a bigger idiot that I first thought...
That's got to be a typo, surely?... or is he talking about a specific part of the kernel?
Analogizing drugs and Open Source is 13-year-old crap, and I'm sure ESR and others will have a ball with this.
Nice going SCO. Thanks for proving (in "graphic" detail) what kind of corporation you truly represent.
"Of course you know, this means war!"
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
"Among other things, the protesters claim that SCO employes came out and joined the event holding pre-prepared signs saying things like 'I love software piracy' and 'Try communism - use Linux.'"
:^)
Erm, what other kinds are there? Ones that spontaneously draw themselves? I bet the protestors showed up with pre-prepared signs as well
Some of these are just downright funny.
Why is it that some people from the Linux camp are all about free speech... that is, when the free speech is not targeted against them.
I like "meat-canoe", I heard it on TV.
Did anyone else find it extremely funny that the "Try Communism" sign has a penguin doing a sig heil and saying "ya vol"? Maybe if you're going to make a protest sign you should at least get your major points of history right ;).
AccountKiller
For the sake of discussion, let's assume the case has merit. The Linux community will rewrite the improperly used code, redesigning it if need be, craft tools to migrate everyone over to it, and go on. This is open source, utter transparency, no secrets. They can't go after every line of the current kernel, we know that, and there's more than one way to do everything.
SCO will be soon be a shell company. They might as well be making buggy whips. I think this is the ultimate agenda of the leadership, they just hope to cash out with the settlement from IBM.
It was interesting to me how the PR folks tried to associate Linux with software piracy and communism. I don't think this is because of a real misperception on their part, it seems much more likely to be spin-directed FUD. It's more pathetic than enraging to me.
It really all seems like a legal strategy to exploit the fact that our IP laws have not really caught up with the PC revolution. They might get some money from IBM, if they do, they leverage their legal victory and liquid revenues to bump the stock price and sell the company. It won't fool Warren Buffet or Peter Lynch, but there are still plenty of fools with money in the world.
This type of business strategy--utterly bereft of moral values--has not yet entirely faded from view. The real tragedy is not the threat to Linux, but the threat to SCO employees and investors. I don't see this working out well for them in any way. Some lawyers will get rich, though.
So, follow the money. SCO is now a lawsuit machine. IBM will survive this no matter how it turns out. SCO won't.
The best way to do is to be.
My favorite reassuring quote from SCO. I'm glad to see that all my concern has been misplaced.
SCO spokesman Blake Stowell says his company's lawsuit will not put an end to Linux.
"Linux could still be used; it just wouldn't be free," Stowell said. "These people are upset because they've been enjoying a free ride for some time. They're upset their free ride will potentially be gone."
Yeah, it is too bad you're not an SCO shareholder. Then you'd at least have a tiny amount of money to spend on groceries that you could snack on while standing in the unemployment line. Come on, take a hike. You're fired. You can come in on Saturday to pick up your belongings (such as they are). Now, I'm going to get some ice cream and then crawl into my bed made mostly of $100 dollar bills and ripped up resumes.
What's the big deal about the signs? They're kinda funny. I'd wear a shirt (on my off days, of course) that said, "I Don't Pay For Music - I Don't Pay For My O.S. Either."
As much as i hate SCO i have to admit that some of these SCO posters are actually nice.
I can't help but wonder how much coding thy do and how much drawing.
If their people did as much coding as drawing they would not be in this position right now.
Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
Rude!
sco.ftp file:
Step 3: run sco.bat and profit?Hit the streets of Los Angeles or Las Vegas or any other western US city and start asking people who was the worst communist, Hitler or Ivan the Terrible.
You'll get one of two answers:
1) "Who's Ivan the Terrible?"
2) "Hitler, definitely."
You will not get the more appropriate answer that you expect. Citizens of the US do NOT tend to know their history at all. What they know is a) Hitler is the most evil person of all time, b) communism is the most evil thing of all time, therefore c) Hitler and communism must be one and the same.
I would suspect you could now throw terrorism into that equation somewhere, though I haven't had opportunity to test the theory...
Take it from me - I work for a Fortune 500 company (no not microsoft ;-)) that gets protests pretty much *weekly* and the upshot of it is that company email gives logistical directions on where and how to avoid the protests. (ironically, I think that the protesters are *dead on* but believe me, its not going to change the company's practices. Nothing but an act of god is going to do that.)
Anyways, don't get me wrong. I think that SCO is a borderline illegal company, but to *really* hurt them where it counts, we need to organize online. Hurting them where it counts means presenting the SEC with a well-thought out case on why they need to be investigated.
I posted the following proposal to slashdot (it was rejected, probably because it was too controversial) and the gist was that SCO's share price (ticker symbol SCOX) has gone up 1400% on rumors and FUD. Now SCO may have a case, they may not have a case, but the least that should happen is an investigation by the SEC into the facts surrounding this incident.
Here's a SEC link that lets you enter a complaint. Hell, if SCO gets enough heat from this, they may divulge all. We deserve, as a community, to be able to evaluate their gripe objectively, and that requires full disclosure by SCO of what their gripe is. SCO's failure to do so is *hurting our livelihood* - and at the least it is libelous.
Anyways, below is the text of the original submission. I'm hoping to get it on the head Slashdot page, so if you could submit it as a story, I think it would do us all a favor. (Note to slashdot editors - a 'soapbox' icon would be very nice... something which allows users to post controversial stories like this whilst having a disclaimer so slashdot can keep its nose clean)
original submission:
I just read the vaguely demeaning forbes article describing the complacency of the linux community, and believe me, this "crunchie" wasn't pleased, at either a) being called a crunchie for having the ethics to be upset about what SCO is doing, or b) for being labeled as ineffective and powerless. The truth is, the open source community isn't powerless. The whole SCO incident has a very bad smell to it, and what they are doing (and the consequent effect on their stock price) is in my opinion highly unethical if not illegal. I am not a lawyer (or SEC official for that matter) but their stock price has jumped from 60 cents to $11 per share, in dubious circumstances... so in my opinion at the very least the SEC should be notified about the unsavory aspects of it and other pieces of background info so they can do an investigation and find out the facts for themselves. So - I think the open source community should take a stand. If you don't like what SCOX is doing, here is the sec complaint form where you can submit evidence, background facts, personal knowledge, and - if you think so - your opinion about how malfeasant SCOX's actions are and the damages that they are doing. (Any info about how SCOX insiders are capitalizing on the stock price would be especially helpful.. personally, its the element I find most distasteful of all, and if they find manipulation, its information the SEC can directly use.) How many people read slashdot? How would the SEC handle 500,000 complaints? Only time would tell - but I think at the minimum it would warrant an investigation, possibly even a class-action suit. Anyways, if you are going to submit, please be civil about it. The worst thing possible would be for the SEC to get lots of long-winded rants - they want courteous dialog and accurate information they can use, not a vitriolic screed of profan
Seems to me that SCO managed to obtain what it wanted: make the whole protest lose its point. It seriously looks like it was easy to make fools out of the LUG protesters.
We should have a national SCO protest day where all the LUGS should protest outside of say a mcdonald's since they are one of sco's bigger customers...
Maybe it already has its own topic, called "Caldera". It is odd that this particular article wasn't there, however.
More greed driven insults and baseless accusations. I don't think they expect to sell any more copies of Unix in the near or distant future. They'll undoubtably retire from the software business if they find a judge crooked enough to give them a win. And if they lose, they'll still retire, just not in style. There's nothing left for them here.
Pork receptacle?
Slippery slit?
Baby chute?
Goddamned irresitable?
Breakfast?
Lunch?
Dinner?
God's greatest gift to man?
blah, blah, blah. If you cared to look, you'd've seen that Illiad didn't draw this one himself (apparently Larson did, and he only filled in the text balloons). Which makes a huge difference.
It seems this is not a troll.
That sounded like bullshit to me, until I found the pictures of Darl McBride and a couple of protestors. God knows the Linux community can be, um, a little humorless and self-congratulatory, and SCO has veered into the realm of insanity. The concept of Darl laughing with the pro-Linux people simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever, since he's accused nearly half the tech industry of outright theft. It's hard to think of any of this as "FUN" when you're dealing with a group of corporate raiders who are literally trying to sabotage the future of computing.
I'd reached the conclusion a long time ago that Linux was grossly overrated, but it's also done great things for my workplace and my research field, and it's a shame to see another sleazebag IP holding company try to hijack that. I don't condone IP theft or DDoS attacks on SCO's website, but I also wouldn't speak to the likes of Darl McBride except through a lawyer.
Oh, by the way, the Communism thing isn't funny any more. It's not McCarthyism, but it's pretty fucking stupid and offensive. Most of us in The Real World use and like Linux because it helps us do our jobs and make (and save!) money, not because it fits our half-baked socialist ideals.
"Linux could still be used; it just wouldn't be free," Stowell said. "These people are upset because they've been enjoying a free ride for some time. They're upset their free ride will potentially be gone."
I think that this pretty much puts to rest the question of whether or not SCO wants to own Linux.
Part of the problem is that this wouldn't work. Under the GPL, if you can't distribute it for free, you can't distribute it at all. To relicense Linux as an SCO-0wned product, you'd have to get the agreement of all the contributors. I doubt that that would happen.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
With all the comments on here that "the protest was friendly, SCO gave us lemonade, and everyone laughed and had a good time" about the anti-protest it makes me wonder what the protesters were trying to accomplish. The way I look at it is the purpose of a protest is to raise the social costs (in other words make it more costly for SCO to pursue the actions they are trying for than the rewards they think they will gain from it) against the company you are protesting. As it is, SCO is making itself look bad enough through its own actions. It sounds like there were no real demands and anywhere to raise the social costs if they didn't meet those demands.
Okay, please somebody enlighten me. Assume the worst case: SCO wins hands-down. The Linux kernel community then calls for volunteers to rewrite the questionable parts, making sure the people who do it have never seen previously the code in question (they will just get the requirements). Linux becomes compliant again. Why wouldn't it work?
Argh! It's jawohl. :P People should get their languages right, too... "ya vol"... Damn stereotypes. :P
On topic: That's not the only thing they've got wrong.. Free Software is all about sharing, but doing so decentralised, and out of free will.. both fascism and communism are forms of state that promote centralised, strong goverment and basically take away people's free will (that is, with marxistic communism.. there's allot of other kinds of socialists out there, o american commie-haters). Both nazi-germany and communist russia can't be compared to Linux, which started out far more anarcho-socialistic, but has now (unfortunatly) ended up mostly libertarian.
SCOsource is a new business division to manage its UNIX® System intellectual property. The charter of the new division is to create new and innovative licensing programs to meet the changing demands of today's market and to protect its intellectual property asset.
SCO is the owner of the UNIX Operating System Intellectual Property that dates all the way back 1969, when the UNIX System was created at Bell Laboratories. Through a series of mergers and acquisitions, SCO has acquired ownership of the patents, copyrights and core technology associated with the UNIX System. The SCO source division will continue to offer traditional UNIX System licenses to preserve, protect and enhance shareholder value.
Interesting are also the side-links, expecially this, this other, and also this one.
The third link here is Sco trying to submerge the Free Software Movement on the whole by taking out some two random phrases out of context and putting them in the mouths of RMS and Perens.
This is a very very dirty tactic Sco, and I deserve all the right to remind people that you were a dying company, selling an inferior technology, taking the road to extinction, then saved by a bunch of former employees who thrived thanks to linux, bought back for a dime or two. I will only state the truth, don't you think?
+ + + +
I wonder when they are going to tell people that Linux helped Saddam Hussein fleeing the battlefield, or that the FSF headquarters has a time machine and they will use it to start a Soviet Revolution in the US instead of the War of Independence.
+ + + +
Did I tell you that I Hate Sco?
+ + + +6 78395904|39BE2DD045C910DDC81B7FC882ABB203|/
If you download this, Darl will cry:
ed2k://|file|debian-30r1-i386-binary-1_NONUS.iso|
"I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
They want Linux users and OSS types to fly off the handle thus creating more negative press, just ignore them. Right now they're only making themselves look bad. Really bad. Man, these are adults?
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Per Usenet tradition, whoever first compares the opposing viewpoint to Hitler, Nazis or Fascism loses. Given that SCO made signs that equated Linux and Fascism (and Communism, hello SCO? communist and fascist collectively killed 30 million of each other during World War II... might want to look into the differences...), SCO has automatically lost this argument. I think now is a perfect time for the judiciary to set the precedent of giving Usenet posting traditions the weight of law and to summarily dismiss SCO's suit.
http://securityportal.com.ar
The protestor's signs were regular protest signs - "SCO AWAY" and whatnot. They were somewhat whitty, but they had a serious point to make. But the SCO signs were downright awful. I don't know about you, but portraying Linus as Hitler and Tux as a Nazi, with the phrase "give communism a try" isn't funny to me. Especially seeing as how Linus is European...you see where I'm going with this.
Whether it was intended for humor or not, SCO owes Linus and the OSS community a formal appology.
--
http://nemilar.net - Not your grandmother's soup kitchen
I am not convinced that any old SCO employee made those amateur drawings. Those pictures are good art, and I see no evidence that anyone at SCO knows how to produce quality art on a volunteer basis.
Hence, if Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit SCO!
Communism is actually about getting rid of the government. A temporary government is needed to crush all those who oppose Communism, but when Communism is fully in place, the government steps down.
Clever signature text goes here.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
what else would a non-lawyer sco employee be doing all day ?
If they are saying Linux is communism, wouldn't SCO then be the root of communism?
~S
Interesting. The PLUG web page seems to take a different attitude. While SCO may have just been poking fun, it seems a little strange. Most of SCO's posters were obviously drawn up by an artist and not just some random employees. Why spend money and/or time on something like that?
I assume the PLUG people were there too and they didn't seem to think McBride was such a nice guy.
I'll remember that next time i think of IBM and many other large multinational corporations.
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
You're a moronic, mindless, SCO lover.
but I'm just joking with ya.
The SCO Group (SCOX) has 12.2 million shares outstanding at $10.77 per share, for a market capitalization of $131.3M. I think some have assumed IBM would buy them out to remove the litigation risk, but why not someone else? For $66M or so you could control the company. That's only $3.65 for each estimated Linux user.
Maybe when the company goes belly up they can patent a "Jump to conclusions Mat". You know, like that guy in Office Space.
Nuff said. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Holy outdated pop-culture reference, Batman!
1991 called, it wants its catch phrase back.
Thanks for correction.
Ya know, these poor helpless employees from SCO look awfully like those cuban folks sent marching in Havana holding party sanctioned signs against EU governemt officials. I bet some internal memo hit their Outlooks calling for 'vigorous action' against the 'community enemies'... sad. In their small ecosystem these people are living through a cultural revolution from a Linux company to a M$ cheerleader; what a shame and what a disgrace for those C*Os acting like banana-republic dictators. U-G-H!
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
By the way, has anyone gone to SCO's website and seen the picture of that ugly brunette? In what world is it good marketing to scare people away from your website with that shit?
Wow... where's Triumph the Insult Comic Dog when you need him?
Looking at the pictures of the anti-SCO protesters, I thought about the Triumph episode where he interviews/insults the Star Wars "nerds" waiting in line for Episode II. Could've been some great material...
I guess someone should've called Conan before the protest started...
Yah, I figured they misspelled "ya vol", but I was too lazy to go look it up somewhere. It does make it all the more funny that they couldn't even get that right ;).
AccountKiller
The comic (in general) sucks dong and the stealing of Gary's work is wrong
hu...
h tm
what's this - a coffee meeting with sco? do you really think that they care about your 'protest'?
this is what protests should look like if you want to reach something http://www.lahaine.org/global/tesa_fotos_zonroja.
Erm, no. Stalinism is what takes away free will and has a strong centralized bureaucracy.
Marxism, leninism and trotskyism have none of this.
Mainly because the stalinist program went against marxist philosophy in a few areas...and as history has shown those where the key areas that where REALLY important. Doh.
Really marxism is just a philosphy of history and economics that leads to revolution with the proletariat triumphant. It DOESN'T say what you are supposed to do afterwards. That's where leninism, trotskyism, stalinism, etc. come in.
That linux users do not steal IP.
Oh wait, was it a parody? Arn't those supposed to be funny? I mean, this commic dosn't really make any sense, because there isn't really any reason for SCO to listen to all of us, if they really think they're right.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I don't see what capitalism or communism has to do with intellectual property. Capitalism comes about through the trading of goods. If I trade you an apple for money, then I don't have the apple anymore. "Intellectual property" is an attempt to make ideas and expressions of those ideas behave like physical goods. It's an arbitrary construction, and it has nothing at all to do with capitalism or communism.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
I have to agree on this one.
Hang around any political discussion forum for an extended period of time and you'll eventually see someone putting forth the concept that Hitler was a communist. (Small c, thereby denoting ideology, not big C, thereby denoting the party, never actually seen anybody actually putting forward the idea that he was a Communist.)
People have a tendency to link Hitler to whatever ideology they think is evil regardless of any facts. It's a pretty good explanation for the existence of Godwin's law.
Personally, I think having SCO act like idiots is about the best outcome anyone could hope for from this and more than was expected.
I expected SCO to do the sensible thing and just play it cool. This slander and thats what it truly is can't do their cause any good. IANAL, but the counter protest was done by their company employees , on company time and with the tacit approval, of the top company management. At the very least, there is a good case for slander, defamation of character, and perhaps misuse of the TUX trademark.
Barring the legal issues, This situation emphasizes the fact that SCO is not a company to do business with. My company supports numerous SCO installations for medical practices, we are not even in the remotest sense considering moving forward with them. The lawsuit and SCO's long term viability were not the only factor (support for current hardware, easy access to development tools, documentation, availability of training, availability of trained personell and last but not least having a license and a sales staff that could actually inform you of what you currently needed to buy to acheive a given feature set) were all important, but this was the capper.
I am certain that as other companies look at the situation, they will come to the same conclusions. The winners will be Windows, Sun, AIX, HPUX, and other unixes not neccesesarily in that order.
So yes if you dislike SCO you should hope they do more of this. I do.
It's obvious that the Linux protesters don't understand spin and PR. Sure Darl McBride was laughing, because he was thinking "all of you bastards are going to be paying me every time you install linux." He doesn't give a shit about linux users, and likely as not was spewing insults about them all the way home. But he does know enough to pretend to be cordial in front of the cameras, and the linux protesters fell for the spin.
One option to those who develop free software
is to stop development of free software that
runs on SCO. I have seen a few stop development
but I as well as many others would like to see
other big products stop or hinder their development
or support to the SCO user-base.
This is the saddest story I've seen come out of this whole sorry affair, either the employees really thought this. Of Marketing in a fit of madness made them do it I'm betting on option 2
You're right. I should have said marxism-leninism.
From the Deseret News link
"SCO spokesman Blake Stowell says his company's lawsuit will not put an end to Linux.
"Linux could still be used; it just wouldn't be free," Stowell said. "These people are upset because they've been enjoying a free ride for some time. They're upset their free ride will potentially be gone.""
Fuck you, Stowell. Even if there is, by some weird chance, some copied lines from SCO Unix in Linux, the vast majority of it was still created by developers who gave it away for free. You and your greedy cohorts have no right to try to profit off of our "free ride" which was created BY A LOT OF HARD WORK.
I hope you rot in the Utah sun and vultures eat your eyes.
It was totally for shit. How can I sue them?
Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.
Trotskyism = Stalinism (idea of permanent revolution and all). Stalin stole most of his stuff from Trotsky, who got most of it from Lenin, who in turn had ideas *somewhat* similliar to those of Marx. And Lenin really was just as bad. Just go read his quotes about how to define 100,000 dead.
As for showing off the code I really hope someone identified where that code lies in the Linux kernel itself and makes that snippet known to others. This also could very easily make the case null and void because the IP has been shown to anyone and everyone.
As for the SCO made signs. I don't care if it was to be funny, taken to heart, or loved by all who attended. That is hands down, barnone the most unprofessional and childish display I've ever seen by a company. I guess I shouldn't expect much else out of SCO at this point.
First, all these signs are more or less retarded, but the right sign in the first picture must be one of the stupidest things I have ever seen. It states "Give communism a try! - Free Linux," but also contains Tux hailing in the manner of a Nazi and stating "Ya Vol!" (sic).
How retarded do these people have to be in order to mix up communism and Nazism, which are polar opposites.
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
Well...
"Try communism - use Linux"
That's the way it was in Soviet Russia, you insensitive clod!
orzetto,
who's been called a communist by his PM a few thousand times, along with more than half the Italian people.
(And I am one, in my way)
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
SCSI stands for "Santa Clara System Interface" so everyone pay up.
Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.
My socialist ideals are fully baked, thank you very much.
This is a repost from a previous SCO story.
.. read or understand their own history. Like I'm sure in the pioneer days when neighbor helped neighbor build a fence or raise a barn, that they would have thought it a negative or "wrong" to share with each other and help each other. But see, that's "communism" of some kind, so therefore must be "wrong".
Hey, if SCO CEO gets in a car wreck, and is laying there all smashed and bleeding, perhaps the EMT people should wait until he wakes up, signs a contract with them and their lawyers, then hires them to use their "IP" to take care of him. If they just do it, that's right off the bat sharing and communism, I mean, they haven't been paid, or even asked permission yet, have they? Just business, right?
Some people, no matter how old they get, never get past that love of money~greed thing. And calling love of money-worship of money over all things-is not even capitalism, it's just a sick warped mind at work. Capitalism can at least be honorable.
Besides that, it's kinda sorta funy, the dual protests. I feel sorry for the poor low level schmoos working there, that's it. I feel sorrier for open source and linux more though, there was no absolute need to do this.
"I also wouldn't speak to the likes of Darl McBride except through a lawyer."
Are you kidding?! I'd *LOVE* to have a Q & A session with tons of CEO's out there, and most of them are not ones who I agree with
SCO obviously knows it can't get anywhere except by using propaganda to curry favor. Associating Linux with: Communism Software Piracy Napster/Illegal copying of music Smoking Marijuana It's not funny. It's dishonest. This is the typical modus operandi of someone who lacks not only a sense of humor, but also a sense of reality and of fairness.
Just for everyone's info, the correct answer (I think) is "Neither one was a communist!"
"Linux could still be used; it just wouldn't be free," Stowell said. "These people are upset because they've been enjoying a free ride for some time. They're upset their free ride will potentially be gone."
Maybe he needs to be reminded about GPL and what it stands for. I hate to tell you this Blake, but you and your bullshit company will get annhilated by IBM.
It sickens me that companies (and people) like this feel that potential threats to their business can potentially be converted into revenue streams simply because they have (in the short term at least) money to throw away on lawyers and big threats.
I hope IBM leave the judicial equivilant of a smouldering crater where the SCO office stood.
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Ah pity the foo's...
It's sad when a company's main business is so bad it goes below the level of arguing over a non-existant intellectual property case and ends up with colouring in.
Sco timeline:
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away
*coding
historical times
*rehashing other people's work and sticking a SCO sticker on it
the not so distant past
*vapourware
living memory
*lying blindly to gain a few stock points
at present
*colouring in, macaroni & glitter pictures, finger painting and potato stamps
Incidentally I do like the Linus cartoons, but they can't draw Tux for shit.
Would it be considered a form of criminal slander to a company to sugest that users of a particular software product smoke illegal drugs?
I use linux, but I don't smoke pot. While I'm not offended by people who do smoke pot, I really don't want HR to look at my resume and assumume I smoke pot because of my choice in operating systems. I'm not aware of any connection between linux and pot, yet somehow SCO has. It's a very dangerious remark given the fact that the war on drugs is still happening.
Actually I should get on the horn and send off a letter to them communicating my dismay on the subject of infering linux users smoke pot.
For you linux users who also smoke pot, hey might be legal where you are at, or your might have a medical prescription. But for most people living in america, posession of pot carries heavy criminal penitalies.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
SCO doesn't care anymore.
They aren't the same company as Caldera once was - even Ransom Love is gone. I'd seriously doubt if any employees of the company from 2 years ago are there, and most of those from a year ago are probably gone.
The only thing that exists of the Caldera we once knew are the records of its past. It's just a bunch of lawyers at this point, and maybe a few remaining techies.
It is now a purely parasitic organization - and we can all just hope that the remaining IP around Unix is either opened (as being "generic" now) or that the IP is bought by a company that (like AT&T) allows its free use.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
IBM could end this quickly by buying SCO outright, then promptly disbanding the company. I hope that is what happens, because SCO deserves it.
"Not if Slashdot hasn't dumped enough vitriol on SCO already lately."
Some of the employees may not deserve it, but the company management deserves every bit of vitriol they invite with their idiocy.
Dude. It's called humor.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Are there any plans for IBM, SUSE, Redhat and all other companies with an interest in Linux to form a united front to this threat to Linux and open source software ... ? Obviously SCO's plans don't just stop with IBM ...
This just made my day. Linux script kiddies getting OWNED by SCO on SCO's own turf!
have been known to engage in this "anti-picket" stuff before.
Karma: Food Fight (Mostly affected by Date Plate).
Everyone is always talking about the fact that SCO wants a buy-out ... I'm thinking that is exactly what they want but they are expecting it from a completely different company than IBM. SCO knows that Linux is becoming a major competitor in the Corporate world and what company is doing everything it can to stop this .... ding ding ding ... that's right Microsoft.
... normally you approach the party that you believe is causing the problem(IBM in this case) and ask for them to resolve the issue, so that both parties can save face if there is a problem ... however SCO began this in the public domain and refuses to show any actual proof. If actual proof was shown the linux community would remove the lines ASAP (contrary to SCO believe there is definatly more than one way to scin a progrm) however at this point that would damage their prospects at a MS buyout (no linux threat = no MS $$$'s).
I have seen tons of comments about how what SCO is doing is very odd
At this point they are only damaging their reputation and making people question the reputation of linux. They have destroyed any semblance of a "corporate image". They company that will potentially benefit the most from this whole scandal is MS. I mean look at how quickly they sent funds to SCO. By paying SCO they were trying to "legitimize" SCO's claims in the public eye. I wouldn't be suprised to see a MS buyout of SCO in the neer future.
We don't need no stinking sig!
I can't think of a better way to discredit my critics and emasculate them at the same time than taking a smiling photo with them. It helps if protesters you know protested, shouted, and got a little angry.
"See, we're all friends, its all overblown. Go back to your daily routine. Don't worry about some silly lawsuit."
Bullshit. If you know people that believe that, than you don't know very many smart people.
Sounds like SCO has been taking lessons from the $cientologists.
.
Hmmm. .
I always cringe when I see children involved in protests. The little girl would barely know what Linux is, let alone the issues surrounding it's use vis a vie the SCO lawsuits.
All she knows is that Linux has something to do with a cute fluffy penguin.
Please, don't show me any more pictures with kiddie rent-a-crowd (/ drag kids along) 'protesters'.
IMHO in Real Life most of these OSS advocate people aren't quite as fanatical and bigmouthed as they'd like to be and in Online Life they can. And I don't mean that in a rotten way, I think it's just the way it is.
SCO is on a crusade now. And that was kindof a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway.
...just kidding!
Clearly SCO is jelious because their product isn't pirated!
Let's face it, if you were given the choice between BSD, Linux, or SysV... the choice is is pretty clear on the whole the free ones have much more in the way of online support [newsgroups] and software.
Clearly SCO is a communist organization as they choose to run linux and apache, both OSS solutions.
It's the Valerie Mallinson award, given each year for the best corporate astroturfing campaign. Last year was the first year of the award, won by Microsoft, of course.
It is official; IBM confirms: SCO is dying One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered SCO community when IDC confirmed that SCO market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent IBM survey which plainly states that SCO has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. SCO is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Microsoft Zealot to predict SCO's future. The hand writing is on the wall: SCO faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for SCO because SCO is dying. Things are looking very bad for SCO. As many of us are already aware, SCO continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
unixware is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time unixware developers only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: unixware is dying.
All major surveys show that SCO has steadily declined in market share. SCO is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If SCO is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. SCO continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, SCO is dead.
Fact: SCO is dying
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
I saw the pics and I've been keeping up on this for a long time. I hope the courts fry these losers but let's not forget that they ARE a corporation so they will probably end up winning this thing because of $$$$
* I love software piracy
* I don't pay for my music, I'm not paying for my os, so sue me
* My son stole code & published it! And all I got was this lousy t-shirt
* Try communism - use Linux
Are these premium grade idiots trying to get sued or what?
1) I am not a software Pirate and have not knowingly used ripped of software. Until the point SCO made their claims over Linux it was under no suspicion of being hooky and until the case and or an injunction it remains that way.
2) I do not download music, I spend most of my time listening to the radio and have more important things to do than rip music off.
3) I am not a communist, although if you litigation monkeys are a sign of capitalism to come I'm thinking there must be a better alternative.
Thanks to those who took the photos, they may come in handy if I ever decide to sue SCO for Libel. Given that these comments are apparently aimed at the entire Linux community how many people are up for a class action suit.
Up yours SCO, you really are a bunch of sad tossers.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
I was at the protest. I saw it pre-announced on /. and decided to show up. Sadly, from the world's perspective, it becomes what was reported.
In some of the media, the SCO signs are shown larger than life. In reality, they were 1. devoid of intelligent comment, 2. quite small, 3. sitting off to the side on SCO property for most of the time. They were mostly insignificant except for to those taking pictures. If individual pictures had been taken of the protester signs, there were 10 good protester signs for every stupid SCO sign, and real stakeholders/protesters circulating them.
It WAS obviously a waste of time to protest in front of SCO for any significant amount of time, and after the first hour the protesters went to a very busy nearby intersection and carried on their protest in complete absence of SCO, and brought hundreds to some degree of awareness of the issues surrounding the case, and what a bunch of scum-sucking lawyers in their community with no technical merit were trying to do to community-developed free software.
Maybe Utah is not unique in giving the establishment much better press than they deserve. Maybe we bring it upon ourselves. I could not say. But regardless, I will be there again next week.
Trotskyism = Stalinism (idea of permanent revolution and all).
No.
Stalin vs. Trotsky.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I would be quite surprised to see an actual Microsoft buyout because there are a variety of reasons it is not in their interest, and would raise insurmountable antitrust criticism. But I would not be surprised if SCO attorneys, in their many other grand delusions, think something like that might happen.
Assume the worst case: SCO wins hands-down
:D
The Linux kernel is found to be a willful violation of SCO's UNIX copyright. In the US, the statutory penalty for willful infringment of copyright is $150,000US per infringment (in this case, every installed Linux kernel would be an infringment) Suddenly, the business community owes SCO $150,000 per Linux server. Most home users owe more than their life's savings. Many will go bankrupt. Google (with 10s of thousands of Linux machines in it's data center) disappears in a puff of debt. Redhat, and any other US-based distros are responsible for several million infringments each, and are liquidated to pay a small fraction of the fine. People and companies in nations that have "harmonized" their copyright laws with the US (poor fools!) are subjected to the same treatment. SCO will continue to prosecute Linux developers and users around the world.
End result: By 2008, SCO and their lawyers own 34% or the world's wealth. They buy IBM, Sun, SGI and Microsoft, fire the R&D teams, and start collecting "licensing fees" on their new-found patent portfolio. In 2012, the last independent business in the world sells to SCO to settle a $428,997,646,251US patent/copyright/trademark infringment suit. SCO now owns 84% of the world's wealth. In 2016, SCO test-detonates a nuclear weapon. France surrenders. In a series of hostile takeovers, SCO strongarms its way into the UN security council. By now most permanent UNSC member governments are subsidiaries of SCO. 2032: SCO disbands the UN, and renames it's constituent nations "branch offices". The head of SCO's official title is changed from "President and CEO" to "Emperor of Earth". Members of the board are granted heredetary feifdoms and titles. By 2045 the entire world's economy has reverted back to subsistence agriculture, since it is the only economic activity SCO doesn't have patents on. Starvation and economic stagnation take their toll, hundreds of millions of people starve, and a billion more die in wars that break out all over the earth. The entire world sinks into another dark age.
Still think it's harmless to let SCO win?
0 1 - just my two bits
But make it a supportive "protest"! Bring them some positive PR.
Lets go a step further, "protest" outside of Microsoft saying we support innovation and the rights of the individual, but make it kind of supportive, with the words, "sco will get you next". SCO have basically made indirect threats to the whole IT community, and really if the IT community did get united on issues like this no other indutry could stand against us on issues we share common ground on. We're not always going to agree, but it shows maturity to at least know when to bury the hatchet.
StarTux
This is SCO's own handiwork trying to deliberatly create the impression of strong associative ties between Linux users and media and software piracy, in the effort to strengthen their own OS. I only hope that others will see this for what it is.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
By downloading this 25MB file!l your friends!
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Tel
Uh, ok, I've heard enough. Someone please tell me where I can get my "Fuck SCO" T-Shirt already. :)
Our Linux Users group should probably send back the box of OpenServer OpenWorkstation and the trial versions of Volution Message Server as well as the nifty hats they sent us?
Remember that IBM is and will postpone the proceedings until SCO runs out of money in Novemeber..
...
Now I mean theproceedings after first groups of evidence is presented
Boise is in his last hurhah before becoming unemployed for life from the tech industry in any lawyer capacity..who else woudl make the bonehead assumptioo that IBM is incorporated in other than what its incorporation papers satte!
Don't Tread on OpenSource
Geez, the only way I'd get that close to McBride is with a gun in my hand.
A quick browse of SCO's website reveals this page promoting "United Linux"
"United Linux is an enterprise-grade Linux with real-world power."
From another page on SCO's website: "The UnitedLinux initiative has full support from industry companies such as AMD, Borland Software Corporation, Computer Associates, Fujitsu Siemens, Fujitsu, Hewlett-Packard, IBM , Intel, NEC, Progress Software, and SAP".
Sounds to me like bashing Linux may be a little counterproductive. :0)
Thanks, that wasn't obvious.
holding pre-prepared signs
Isn't it just "prepared" ?
I mean what is pre-prepared? the opposite of Post-Prepared?
WTF? Slashdotters should learn to spell.
Fucking top comment. Well said.
on actual work that this is all thier employees do? Might as well fire everyone except the CEO, who would be given an office in the phonebooth outside thier lawyers building.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
I'm glad to see some geeks actually protesting about tech-injustice. Now, if only we can motivate and organize protests against Microsoft :)
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
My co-workers and I were the ones that took some of the pictures. You can find more of them here (with mirrors):
l
http://www.kuwan.net/scotesters/index.html
http://www.karlrees.com/sco/scotesters/index.html
http://www.normanfam.org/sco/scotesters/index.htm
I should note that Ralph Yarrows, head of the Canopy group which owns 46% of SCO, was the one to organize the anti-protest and was the one who had the posters made.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Agreed, especially since McBride is in the position of running a publicly quoted company in the middle of a massive lawsuit and is actually giving statements, press conferences, even now attending demonstrations and talking to the demonstrators.
Seriously, anyone else in anything like his position would be communicating through press releases already run past the lawyers.
He's about as unpleasant a person as you'd ever want to meet, and seriously I recognise that there are people I would never want to meet, but he'd actually be potentially fascinating to talk to.
That's a 10-year old picture of Bill Gates and Ashcroft... I KNEW IT!
One of the comments made by the SCO reps was "Linux users will still be able to use Linux, it just won't be free. Linux users are just upset because they've been getting a free ride for so long and it's coming to an end".
Um, I think I have paid for every distro of Linux that I've used in the past 3 years. RedHat, Club Mandrake, Suse. I've either bought them from CrapUSA or paid for the direct from the company (in the case of Mandrake).
So how have I been getting a free ride? I've paid for an OS that I sometimes use.
The only freedom that I've had has been that which is like speech, not that which is like beer.
where is the "I feel for ya, but that's some funny ass shit" moderation?
as of Monday morning...
Reference: " SCO employes came out and joined the event holding pre-prepared signs saying things like 'I love software piracy' and 'Try communism - use Linux.'"
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Hairy Hatchet Wound
SCO could have just originally said... "Here is the code that shouldn't be there" And give a month or two for kernel developers to produce code patches for 2.0.x, 2.2.x, 2.4.x and 2.5.x. Then say that users are legally required to migrate to the nearest patched kernel or perhaps use some kernel diffs on whatever version they are running. Then later go after any "linux company" that is still actively making available the code in question. But then again, as some marketing pundits will tell you "there's no such thing as bad publicity"
I don't understand how Linux is related to communism. Maybe it's that I'm not the only Linux user who starts to wonder, with corporations like SCO and Microsoft alive and well, if communism wouldn't be all that bad?
My co-workers and I were the ones that took some of the pictures. You can find more of them here (with mirrors):
l
http://www.kuwan.net/scotesters/index.html
http://www.karlrees.com/sco/scotesters/index.html
http://www.normanfam.org/sco/scotesters/index.htm
I should note that Ralph Yarrows, head of the Canopy group which owns 46% of SCO, was the one to organize the anti-protest and was the one who had the posters made.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Will take care of the SCO running out of money issue.
map o tazzy
seeing those pictures make me think even worse of linux users. they are just as bad as the RIAA
Copy of a post to LWN in answer to someone else who applauded the humour:
The Who's down with Other People's Intellectual Property sign is major chutzpah. The IP which TSG (not the original SCO, The SCO Group) is laying claim to is code written by IBM which belongs to IBM according to the terms of the AT&T agreement.
For an example of such code, turn to SMP. TSG's own SMP implementation sucks so badly that all of their licencees, past and present, have written and are using their own implementation instead. TSG is claiming ownership of those implementations.
The short story is that the IP in contention does not belong to TSG even if it was originally developed (by IBM) for use with SCO UNIX or UnixWare sources and is not a part of the BSD codebase or otherwise public domain or copyright (e.g. GPL) by others. To put it in the same terms that TSG are applying to IBM and Linux TSG are using barratry to steal the rights to code that they did not write and do not own.
It's worse than that. If you read what Chris Sontag said in the BYTE article, you will see that TSG are trying to leverage their barratry to steal ownership of every significant OS in the world.
You know how annoying parking meters are? In asserting that everything else descends at least in principle from their UNIX codebase, TSG are trying to install a meter on every CPU in the world, starting with the USA. They are trying to encumber everybody with a licence agreement, but instead of using Microsoft's attrition method, they're aiming for one fell swoop.
To show you how brazen this is, consider the same scenario in another industry. The Canopy Group buys Ford, then claims that since every production-line car in the world was derived in one way or another from Henry Ford's system. They start with General Motors but have an eye on an unexpectedly thriving kit-car industry. Is the analogy clear, and good enough?
While TSG employees might be fine and friendly to deal with, TSG management is trying to stage one of the biggest ripoffs in software history. If they succeed, it will undermine the livelihood implied in tens of thousands of Linux-related job in the USA and greatly slow Linux deployment worldwide. They even have the gall to hint about taxing the BSDs! If they fail, TSG and these guys' jobs, pensions etc will be a scorched memory.
This (to say nothing of much other lying and prevarication) makes those posters a lot less funny than you hope. Ha, ha, and all, but meanwhile they're trying to throw the IT world over a barrel.
And suddenly Boise' actions make sick sense. In the unlikely event of him winning this one, he'll be first in line for the next one, and the next, and the next... and if TSG's licence works out to something of the order of $100 a CPU a year, their income will easily exceed Microsoft's. Are you reading me, Bill?
The penny evidently hasn't yet dropped for Sun. The $100M they've already paid is a drop in the bucket compared with what TSG will get out of them if they win.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
"Oh, by the way, the Communism thing isn't funny any more."
The Software Communist sentiment comes from the continued attempts by certain members of the "Open Source Community" to lobby for laws which ban commercial software.
If Linux does the job for you, that's all it should take, in a free market, to want to adopt it, correct?
not sure if this came up already, but sco.com is running linux!!!?? http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=sco.com makes you wonder!.
Let us consider the following facts:
- Linux user cannot be characterized, by and large, as music or software pirates -- there is no precedent to label them as such any more than Microsoft Windows users
- Not paying for Linux is not a piracy issue, Linux is, by it intent and modus operandi free of licensed and proprietary code
- Presuming that IBM has placed illegitimate, license bearing code into the Linux source tree this does not necessarily reflect poorly on Linus Torvalds, Linux kernel developers, Linux users or the OpenSource community
- Linux usage != stupidity. (I can only assume that this was meant to be farsical. In the realm of debate the tactic of argumentum ad hominim, "argument against the man," (In this case: "You're stupid!") is generally abandoned in grade school.
- "Ya Vol!"[sic] (Intended, correct me if I'm wrong, to be "Jawoll!" a characterization of Nazi adherence to orders popularized by "Hogan's Heroes".) is a crude characiture of nazism not communism. But hey! To the culturally illiterate, what's the difference? Besides, IBM is an oligarchy.
- And... Well I could go on but that would be a full scale rant.
I'm reasonably certain that these posters (A) do not characterize all of the "anti-protesters" and (B) do not characterize most SCO workers. It does reflect poorly on SCO managment who allowed their employees to present the above image at the SCO Lindon facility. In all fairness I have no idea what the "anti-SCO" protesters were carrying. It may have been equivalently malevolent drivel.Is it just me or are SCO's actions truly surreal? I mean is someone smoking crack over there?
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
Finland was NOT a German ally; they were a co-belligerant. This is not just playing with words, IIRC Italian forces on the Allied side after the death of Mussolini also fought as co-belligerants. Nor, unlike any other force that was on the Axis side, was Finland run by a Fascist government. The Finns were NOT fighting for fascism, let alone Nazism; they were fighting to get their territory back.
:-)
The background to this was that the USSR invaded Finland in 1940 (IIRC) in the so-called Winter War, and although Finland lost and had to cede territory they gave the far bigger but post-Stalin purges Soviet forces an almighty hiding. (Arguably the weakness shown by the Soviet army in this conflict helped convince Hitler that the USSR was a push-over).
When Germany invaded the USSR, the Finns decided it was a good opportunity to get their territory back and attacked the USSR forces in Finland; this is called the "Continuation War".
Finland's conduct during the war was IMHO both heroic and beyond reproach. They eventually fought the USSR to an armistice.
IANAF (I am not a Finn) but I really respect their WW2 record. In particular, anyone who used the Brewster Buffalo as an effective combat fighter has my greatest admiration
Who said that history was taught well in our schools? Obviously, you don't know many *people*, smart or not.
I haven't seen "cooter" or "pink gully" yet.
I donâ(TM)t think that MS will want to buy SCO that could turn into a major amount of bad PR, not to mention they could end up in court again with the government for anti-trust violations. Also I would believe some where in MS they want to see IBM win this case. Why do I say this, well in the last case MS was involved in Linux was part of their defense that they did not have a monopoly. MS needs IBM to win this one, but MS can not act to help IBM because that can again come back to haunt them. So the best course of action for MS is to stay the heck away from this, and hope that IBM wins this one.
TSG (as distinct from the original SCO, now called (IIRC) Tarantella) seems to be claiming just about everything, probably working on the idea that the worst outcome is the judge saying no. The common-language term for this is "trying it on".
As I read the contract docs, IBM unquestionably retains the rights to any derivatives they wrote, the only thing they can't distribute is the original source. In their last Exhibit, TSG are implicitly including those derivatives in "SOFTWARE PROGRAMS", trying to eliminate a distinction carefully drawn in the original contract.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The Software Communist sentiment comes from the continued attempts by certain members of the "Open Source Community" to lobby for laws which ban commercial software.
The ranting of a few delusional leaders in the FSF does not represent the opinion of the many professionals who use, develop, or promote Linux. Particularly not IBM or Linus (who is on record as saying that everyone should be able to choose whatever license they please for the software they write). I haven't even heard RMS weigh in on the SCO lawsuit, so why drag his distinctively weird opinions into this?
If Linux does the job for you, that's all it should take, in a free market, to want to adopt it, correct?
Yes. What's your point?
Utah is a weird, little place that is run by sissy, white-ass geek-hicks.
Weird...
Weird!!!
I really don't know what to say...
Was RMS there? :D
Prolly not.
Please, its just a question. dont mod me a troll, or flamebait.
I don't see this much activity for H-1B protests. Regardless of who wins the SCO lawsuit, it does not kill total IT jobs. But H-1B's or other visa bills do. Priorities are messed up here.
I don't think it's funny. Not at all.
People act like idiots -- and in the end the motivation *is* money. TheyÂre not doing it for the sake of comedy. Nor are they trying to preserve national values.
TheyÂre in _just_ for the money. No matter what they say, theyÂll voice an opposite opinion in 3 seconds, if that can make them more money.
And they can brainwash less brilliant dudes, who wonÂt even make any money, to tease us by calling us names, like "troll" or "zealot".
And this, incredibly, they do because we dared to think different from the mainstream Windows OS -- and our "different thinking" is really different, it's not ApplesÂs OS X official alternative.
ItÂs almost as if they wanted to portrait the very people who can code -- and can make things happen -- as idiots and lazy.
They say:
"You can use a sophisticated world-class developed OS like Linux? What? You actually develop it? Bang! You're just a zealot!"
I am not. I'm just a regular guy, wife and daughter, regular job, regular life, etc. I have to explain to guys who say "Why use Linux? Why donÂt you just copy Windows? Nobody will ever know!"
I will. So I don't pirate, nor do any of other Linux-only users like me, I imagine.
What use would this labeling have, but to outlaw those who donate their work?
Would they also move such a campaign against us if we decided to donate food?
No, it's not funny anymore. ItÂs sick. The more I learn about them, the less I get concerned about the flaws in their product.
The real problem is their gangster methods.
The world has seen Linux source code, kernel et all - even if SCO wins the case in court, it will be next to impossible to stop Linux movement. Sure IBM can stop selling AIX and Linux - but in this slow economy, who's bying anything except maintenance service?
The way I see it, SCO can sue until blue in the face and nothing is going to stop - except making some lawyers richer
1) Closed Source is owned by the people, via the shareholders.
2) Closed Source is controlled by a central planning committee, for the people's good.
OTH
1) Open source is owned by no one
2) Anyone can make whatever they want with it
This is my sig.
The obvious answer to this is to organise a pro-SCO demonstration, lauding all the worst aspects of that company. "Litigation is better than innovation," and so on. Just make it funny for goodness sake. That's the beauty of satire which the SCO posters miss.
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
I can not believe that SCO has the gaul to call us all thieves when in actuality they have not contributed even 1% to the Linux effort. They are using a highly dubious IP right to STEAL linux from the people who put the real effort and work into creating it. This is absolutely unbelievable, I am beside myself with furry over this company. SCO are the thieves right now. They have no right to Linux at all but they are hoping a judge with less technical ability to understand the codes origins hands over rights to it. There constant illegal mouth flapping is also stealing business away from the Linux community as well. The first release Caldara made of OpenLinux validated the code which is there. If there is indeed any present of any merit. Under the GPL terms they have no claim to it. Even if SCO looses the battle with IBM does not mean they are not going to stop this ridiculous claim to ownership over Linux. SCO are Thieves in the act of stealing as we speak. Business and IP rights. From the first moment I have had to speak with their technical support team I have always had a distaste for these people. The lie like a rug.
There is no standard definition of Capitalism
and Communists, at least as Microsft and SCO (Caldera)
sees it. According to them, when something is
to their benefit they call it "capitalism", and
when the very same thing is to their detrivmetn
they call it "communism". It is all a matter
of what definition they use today, and it
is also very possible that tomorrow will
define these things differently, as they have
done already!
The only way to make a bully look bad is to punch him good and hard back. That is the unfortunate truth; and this coming from a liberal who finds this truth a sad commentary on life. We are a violent species.
To whom it may concern,
I am baffled by the article by Daniel Lyons which appeared on Forbes.com today (6-18-2003), entitled "What SCO Wants, SCO Gets". I take no issue with the facts presented therein, rather it is the mocking, unprofessional tone the author has chosen to employ which to me seems to belie your organization's reputation for journalistic integrity.
Specifically, I take issue with the author's knee-jerk stereotyping of Linux users as self-righteous religious fanatics. To wit, and I quote the author,
"...like many religious folk, the Linux-loving crunchies in the open-source movement are a) convinced of their own righteousness, and b) sure the whole world, including judges, will agree."
This statement is false and implies insult both to people with religious beliefs and to those who like or use Linux. Painting with such a broad brush is simply inaccurate and, frankly, sophomoric ("crunchies"?) and offensive to people for whom these matters are important.
Additionally, almost without exception, nearly every discussion (involving Linux advocates) of this SCO-IBM suit that I have participated in or read about has included genuine interest in the details of SCO's, as of yet, vague claims. This intense interest exists, not only because the veracity of these unexamined details determine the merit of the case, but also because those concerned will be able to identify who is responsible for improperly contributing code to Linux once SCO details just what code has been misappropriated. This is because such changes to Linux are logged and it will be easy to tell who contributed any offending code.
It is thus immediately apparent to anyone who has actually participated in such discussions that Daniel Lyons assertion that Linux users are simply "convinced of their own righteousness" is, again, presumptuous stereotyping.
It is my hope that in the future your writers will be held to a higher standard of accuracy and maturity.
Sincerely,
I was just wondering: since SCO is dying and, they are probabily cheap now, what if some other evil corp (let's say M$) decides to buy them? Oh wait a minute they just started doing that.
---
nothing to say
I felt like you did, sort of, until I read the parent post. Then I understood the whole deal... I think.
Both sides want to make a stink about this. Both sides think they're right... but nobody has a personal one-on-one problem here really. So, the pro-Linux crowd shows up, SCO joins in and a bigger "stink" is made in the public eye and both sides get attention. The individual participants can still be friendly though. You might as well have fun while you're out there, and there's certainly no point in making personal enemies while you're out there.
Ooo.. that brings a funny image to mind. A couple hundred coders in an all out brawl. Lens Crafters could make a -killing- if the instigated the fight!
The ranting of a few delusional leaders in the FSF does not represent the opinion of the many professionals who use, develop, or promote Linux.
One would think so, but this delusion is has spread much further than just the FSF.
I haven't even heard RMS weigh in on the SCO lawsuit, so why drag his distinctively weird opinions into this?
Because you brought up Communism and how you are disgusted by the label. Unfortunately, SCO's protest signs had a ring of truth to them... That ring of truth is all you need to coerce public perception.
Yes. What's your point?
The Linux "Community" should be more concerned about the bad public image they are creating for themselves.
that maybe the reason people are upset has little to do with any perceived "free ride". It has everything to do with damaged reputation. But then again, he's obviously not banking on *his* reputation now, is he?
C|N>K
Cuba only embraced the USSR after Castro was in power, after Castro decided that having power was too good of a thing to let go.
If the US really wanted to invade Cuba and take over, we'd have a 51st right now.
It may not be funny but it is true. Linux proponents have turned Linux from an OS into6 .html
a politcal statement and many view that statement for what it is : "Socialist Computing". Of course
if half of these would ready the linux advocacy mini-howto the world would be a much nicer place and we would not have this stigmata.
Try here for starters : http://www.datasync.com/~rogerspl/Advocacy-HOWTO-
Can anyone using SCO non-linux systems comment on how much opensource software is in a SCO unix or SCOx system? They mention all sorts of things that lead me to guess that they are using Apache, PHP, and others. Any one want to do a run down?
SCO has implicitly hinted they may sue other OS sellers that have UNIX code. That would include Apple OS. I do not think in my wildest dreams that Steve Jobs is pleased with SCO's actions. SCO is attempting, really out of nowhere, to take ownership of the open source revolution, through use of shell corporations and dubious IP claims.
Yes, Microsoft has to be having a good laugh at this one, but Apple? No way.
SCO = Iraq, Microsoft = France, IBM = US. I hope the sign also mentioned Freedom Windows (KDE). Huh? Are you saying that's not what they meant?
That many high-res pics and the servers are still quick and responsive? Pshaw. /. is showing it's age here.
Linux is related to communism in the following way: Finland that Linus T. comes from was once bordering with the communism country. Well, not good enough?, hereâ(TM)s another one: the whole IP idea is a capitalist ditch to save their falling model of doing business. Anything that is out there that seems to threaten that model such âoeopen sourceâ, âoefree softwareâ, is going to be to their dislike and labeled as anti-property, anti-free trade, âoeunpatrioticâ, etc.
It is capitalist way of saying that intellectual property is part of a religion of ego-centered and selfish model that ought to predominate always and everywhere. Since Linux is about sharing code and software innovation it is a threat to that insanity. But they will defend it tooth and nail and SCO Groupâ(TM)s lawsuit against IBM is an example of it.
IP was invented for the sake of lawsuits.
Try communism - use Linux
Should have read: Try communism - use Caldera Open Linux.
Hmmm... my understanding of Communist regimes is that under such systems, all property is controlled by the government, presumably for the good of the people. In contrast, the proposed law to which you refer give control of software to the people for the good of the government. However, regardless of Red Hat's support for this proposed law, Linus is the de facto spokesman for Linux, not Richard Stallman, not IBM, not Red Hat, so to assert that something that conflicts with Linus's own opinion is that of the Linux community is absurd.
Speaking of sickening political comparisons, elsewhere in this thread the likening of Linux to Nazi-ism is shrugged off as "good fun" for people with a "sense of humor". Of course, you can easily understand why people have such an attitude, or, "at least in Utah you can."
Comparing Linux to Comunism is such an USA'ism..
Anyway, USA's capitalism is more like socialism than like capitalism itself. That stuff about minimal government - 'pure capitalism' - is *crap* and if you think it works, look how it worked on Argentina...
Also, Linux is about choice. The fact of having no royalties does not take it closer to Comunism. AFAIK, the GNU homepage have some more information that proves the opposite.
When some north-americans - and other north* friends - grow up and learn a bit about history - and politics -, world'll be a little better place to live.
I recently read that the disturbing popular Ann Coulter's book is about how mccarthyism was not actually a bad thing and is only potrayed that way to satisfy the evil traitor communist liberal agenda. She says that is was really a good thing and that liberals really were and are communists and we should start doing it again. of the. The fact that she is very popular amoung the large and growing Fox News Zombie crowd could be very bad.
I'd hire a SCO employee without hesitation, so long as they weren't the CEO or on the board of directors. The rest of the employees are just trying to do their jobs, in an economy where it's not easy to find a better job. If I were working for SCO when they started this mess, I'd still be working there and I'd be hoping that we might someday get a leader who recognizes that the economy is in shambles, and would try to fix it.
linus might have a case a/g SCO for the libelous sign saying that he, personally, steals software, yes?
dude,
First of all "It's smell trouble" make no sense.
Second of all, if you had actually read the story you link too in your posting, you'd know that there is no chance in hell that microsoft is going to buy SCO. Sharp guy indeed.
Seems like I was right. Hate to say "I told you so" but...
8 703
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=64233&cid=595
SCO screams and cries about everybody stealing from them. At the same time, SCO is attempting to profit from IP which they did not contribute to, nor did they buy. SCO is trying to profit from the donations of thousands of volunteers.
SCO's claims are not based on any sense of justice. Rather SCOâ(TM)s claims are based on what SCO thinks is a legal technicality.
And SCO has the nerve to call the open-source community "thieves" ?
YOU NEED HELP A/C!
Um...aren't they forgetting something? Didn't SCO sell copies of Linux too? Then it should be:
"Legalize Stupidity - Smoke SCO Linux"
"Give Communism A Try - Free SCO Linux"
"Your Son Stole Code & We (SCO) Republished It
"SCO [heart] Software Piracy"
(Or replace the above SCO references with Caldera)
are the only people who could think up this act of extortion and, moreover, make those retarded fucking protest signs. Every day I'm grateful I don't live in that state.
This is simple. People are protesting your actions. What is the best way to make their protest meaningless and to make yourself look like the good-guy who is in control.?
Embrace them.
Give them drinks.
Laugh with them and join the party.
Embrace, love, and then crush your enemy.
This is business as usual for scum^H^H^H^Hpoliticians, lawyers and businessmen.
I'm willing to bet that several SCO employees were doing it out of true heart, but Darl?
This guy is suing everyone and their mother for billions. Even if his claims were valid, he's basically claiming that all UNIX IP is his.
Read this. Darl is 'hip and down with OSS' and he makes himself look like a victim. When I read it, I started to say, "Hmm, maybe this guy is the victim."
Then I remembered the damages and claims he's making and the FUD he's spreading.
Some normal SCO employees might mean well, but as for Darl and the rest, either they're insane and think they're the victims, or they're playing a masterful political game.
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
Topic in #os: hey guyz, stop pickin on irix. /msg atnt haha. idiot. :~(
<SCO> w00t! i bought unix! im gonna b so rich!
<novell>
<novell> whoops. was that out loud?
<atnt> rotfl
<ibm> lol
<SCO> why r u laffin at me?
<novell> dude, unix is so 10 years ago. linux is in now.
<SCO> wtf?
<SCO> hey guyz, i bought caldera, I have linux now.
<red_hat> haha, your linux sucks.
<novell> lol
<atnt> lol
<ibm> lol
<SCO> no wayz, i will sell more linux than u!
<ibm> your linux sucks, you should look at SuSE
<SuSE> Ja. Wir bilden gutes Linux fr IBM.
<SCO> can we do linux with you?
<SuSE> Ich bin nicht sicher...
<ibm> *cough*
<SuSE> Gut lassen Sie uns vereinigen.
* SuSE is now SuSE[UL]
* SCO is now caldera[UL]
<turbolinux> can we play?
<conectiva> we're bored... we'll go too.
<ibm> sure!
* turbolinux is now turbolinux[UL]
* conectiva is now conectiva[UL]
<ibm> redhat: you should join!
<SuSE[UL]> Ja! Wir sind vereinigtes Linux. Widerstand ist vergeblich.
<red_hat> haha. no.
<red_hat> lamers.
<ibm> what about you debian?
<debian> we'll discuss it and let you know in 5 years.
<caldera[UL]> no one wants my linux!
<turbolinux[UL]> i got owned.
<caldera[UL]> u all tricked me. linux is lame.
* caldera[UL] is now known as SCO
<SCO> i'm going back to unix.
<SGI> yeah! want to do unix with me?
<SCO> haha. no. lamer.
<novell> lol
<ibm> snap!
<SGI>
<SCO> hey, u shut up. im gonna sue u ibm.
<ibm> wtf?
<SCO> yea, you stole all the good stuff from unix.
<red_hat> lol
<SuSE[UL]> heraus laut lachen
<ibm> lol
<SCO> shutup. i'm gonna email all your friends and tell them you suck.
<ibm> go ahead. baby.
<SCO> andandand... i revoke your unix! how do you like that?
<ibm> oh no, you didn't. AIX is forever.
<novell> actually, we still own unix, you can't do that.
<SCO> wtf? we bought it from u.
<novell> whoops. our bad.
<SCO> i own u. haha
<SCO> ibm: give me all your AIX now!
<ibm> whatever. lamer.
* ibm sets mode +b SCO!*@*
* SCO has been kicked from #os (own this.)
The IBM lawsuit could bring a windfall to Canopy, which owns 46% of SCO.
Another beneficiary could be John Wall, chief executive of Vista.com, a
Redmond, Wash., company that last August struck a licensing arrangement with
SCO. Wall got 800,000 shares of SCO stock in the deal and still holds 600,000,
making him SCO's biggest individual shareholder after Canopy. Those shares,
which were worth about $1 each when Wall made the deal, now trade above $10.
CEO John Wall, who also founded Wall Data Inc. launched Vista.com.
"Microsoft and Wall Data are building on their combined industry-leading
expertise in server software, SNA, legacy applications, and database reporting
and publishing to create a mission-critical, intranet-ready solution," said
John Wall, president of Wall Data.
Were those inflammatory signs placed on SCO property in an attempt to goad the PLUG protesters into trespassing? I would suspect so.
Props to our Linux homies in Utah for their cool, calm, collected response. They may have just walked away from an ambush and possible criminal prosecution.
when you see nerds turning one on another. We're supposed to be supporting each other here in Nerd-dom and trying to bring about Nerdist ideals. This is a bad thing(tm).
In a very real way, I own my wife and child; they own me.
If another person comes in and trespasses, pulls a gun on me and shoots me dead, and steals my function, they can probably force my wife and child to "act" in some of the same ways as they do with me. But they can't own them. Owning is how you invest yourself, and ends up being identical with who you are.
Open and honest marriage involves owning each other in a way that a rapist never can own a person.
Now, Linux was developed under a specific set of conditions, open, and [hopefully, and at least for the most part] honest. SCO wants to steal that. They have a gun that like a Saturday Night Special sometimes blows up in your face, but often works just as intended.
But they don't want to own Linux. That would take honesty, and really posessing what is Linux.
SCO wants to steal Linux. There's a huge difference. In my book, they are software pirates.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
pissflaps!
Linux = Communism? I think not.. let's work this out...
Linux = Multiparty Democracy to Monarchy at times
Oracle, Sun = Monarchy
Unix = Anarchy with various flavors being multiparty democracies
Windows = Single Party State Authoritarian Regime which occasionally morphs into a Military Junta, and occasionally pretends to be communistic to improve public image
> Knowing US military, political and economic might, that seems fairly
> brave move on France's (and Germany's) part to me.
How? Knowing the US, they know there isn't a chance in hell of us actually hurting France or Germany even if Osama showed up in Paris. We will snub them for a while in insignificant ways, but that is about it. Personally I support having the US withdraw from NATO and let em start learning just how much it costs to build and maintain a modern high tech military.
> It's bit like people calling 9/11 terrorists cowards...
Agreed, cowards they aren't. And I'd go you one more and say the guys that went splat into the Pentagon weren't terrorists. Terrorism is a deliberate attack against a civilian target and if anyone wants to call the Pentagon a civilian target I want them to explain just what they think a military one might be. The passengers were just collateral damage. (War is a bitch like that, which is why it is usually considered a 'bad thing'.)
Same for Tim Mcveigh and the OKC bombing not being terrorism. If a federal building full of feds and the machinery of the FedGov isn't a legit target, what is? No, Tim was part of a revolutionary force of less than a dozen, but it was an act of revolution, not terror. Of course I still agree with the State responding by planting the S.O.B.
Words mean things, and I get ticked when people try to expand the meaning of one word to the point where it loses any meaning.
Democrat delenda est
It pinpoints to this zdnet article here.
"I am slashbot, hear me roar!"
That penguine mascot is rather kid friendly. I think linux community has a perfect tool to indoctrinate kids and free them from the dark side.
More realistically the Communist sentiment is a manufactured one, relating to the Linux development process and community. It never has been a sensible or realistic way of viewing the community - which is a benign, banana-republic dictatorship more than communism. Some people may have their doubts as to how benign Linux is, but they are mostly trolls. At least he manages to piss off a lot of folks who think their patches deserve to be in the kernel.
The 'Free' market we have here in the US isn't exactly free. When it comes to MS taking the people who do the purchasing out, showering them with gifts, and doing the usual corporate 'bidding (bribing)' on a government contract' thing, of course Linux won't stand a chance. Bills requiring the consideration of open source software make sense on many levels. So would laws banning the gifts in the bidding stage.
I'm a paralegal. You are forgetting that it's against the law to say damaging and untrue things about a competitor and if it in fact damages their business, they have a claim for "trade libel". At least one attorney has been quoted in the press as saying that SCO could be making themselves liable for such a claim.
Suppose SCO wants to loose?
/Dread
- SCO's sys V contract mumbles something about "derivitave works", suppose the court nullifies license inheretance? They loose.
Does this leave GPL code to be picked up by anyone smart enought to grasp "embrace and extend"? Like SCO?
This is the best anti-FUD project they could come up with? A demonstration such as this only serves to show (yet again) the social cluelessness of a great number of Linux enthusiasts. I am that way myself sometimes. They should have beat those SCO'ers a new lump on their heads, though.
One would think so, but this delusion is has spread much further than just the FSF.
That bill says nothing whatsoever about banning proprietary software.
The Linux "Community" should be more concerned about the bad public image they are creating for themselves.
Oooooh, another consultant tells me why I should be using Windows instead, this time because a bunch of pimply 13-year-olds make Linux look bad. (He's also the first person I've read who actually takes all of SCO's claims seriously, which is sort of bizarre.) I thought you said the main criterion should be whether Linux does the job or not?
"No. Provo, Utah". :-)
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
But this seems to be the wrong way to address a company, especially a company like SCO.
First, SCO doesn't care what you or I think about them. They want money.
More specifically, they want money for what they bought, as in "We have deep pockets and political connections. Show us the respect that we paid for."
Any protest of that type is unlikely to have the desired impact on SCO, the media or the outcome of the court case.
Second, if you think that there is something illegal happening at SCO, such as insider trading, buying and selling of stock by executives that is in opposition to to the interest of investors, lying on the quarterly and anuall reports, etc., then report that to the SEC. But be damned sure of your accusations.
Third, write well reasoned, insightful letters to the editor of major (business) news outlets. Be clear in your opinions and support all your claims with logical and ethical arguments. Business readers are not much swayed by pathos.
And be ready for the remote possibility that SCO may win the court case, despite having no valid claims. It's happened in the past, it will happen in the future, and it's just the way it sometimes goes. I know it sucks to be in on the side of right in a losing battle, but there's a lot of that going around right now.
Read, L
A mussel (mossel, shell creature) is my fav because it actually looks like one
also: the 'warm slimey hole' metaphore fits it quite well.
Never trust a creature that bleeds for three days and doesn't die.......
You're not in the least bit serious are you?
Agreed, cowards they aren't. And I'd go you one more and say the guys that went splat into the Pentagon weren't terrorists. Terrorism is a deliberate attack against a civilian target and if anyone wants to call the Pentagon a civilian target I want them to explain just what they think a military one might be. The passengers were just collateral damage. (War is a bitch like that, which is why it is usually considered a 'bad thing'.)
Bullshit, complete and utter clap trap.
First, the terrorist WERE cowards. They dressed as civilians, they took civilians hostage, and they deliberately with full knowledge and desire killed civilians.
The passengers in the plane were in no way "collateral damage" and the Pentagon wasn't a millitary target.
Why not you might ask? Because these people were not military soldiers acting under state sanction in an announced aggression against another country.
They were common thugs. They were the guy who sticks up the little old lady on the street corner.
And for Tim McVeigh. What was he rebelling aginst then? What was his message to the world? What did he hope to accomplish by "overthrowing" the government?
No, he was just a misguided angry little man with just a little too much smarts and luck for his own good.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
The french and german don't give a peanut's head about America or Americans. Pretty much as America does not care about us europeans or the rest of the world outside the country. Voting for Bush is the best thing you can do for us europeans, so he can continue messing with all the protocols and put reason on our side. Plus, we can continue making jokes and cartoons on him. Would you like french better if they had obeyed to Bush? Well, why don't you americans show us all where the massive destruction weapons are? Maybe then we can start do believe that Bush is not driven on imperial madness, economic reasons and supremacy hysteria. Where were you when East Timor got invaded by Indonesia and almost destructed for 25 years? Oops! Indonesia is a friend of the US.
Thats not what Darl Mcbride is saying....
...to a good old-fashioned Denial of service attack?
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
Afterall I can now at least half a dozen administrations there that mach Saddam's for repressiveness.
Whether you agree with their actions or not, & whether attacking civilians in immoral is irrilivent, the fact is they put their lives on the line for their beliefs.
A coward would have blown up the WTC (or for that matter, a essential antibiotics plant in Sudan) by remote control using cruise missles
Well, SCO is claiming that even a re-written Linux that removes the offending code will still be a derivative work, because it's based off of their copyrights. If their case has that much merit (and hopefully no judge agrees with this), then it's not simply a matter or rewriting the improperly used code.
Go undo your top button.
Are you one of these bloody Yanks that actually think's it's good that you only get 1 or 2 weeks holiday a year?
Here in Oz I we get away with drinking generic bourbon & coke all day from oversized cans, while at the desk & we still get 5 weeks holiday a year & that's ontop a ADO every month, 2 weeks worth of public holidays & sickies galore.
You Yanks take work too bloody seriously - living to work, when you should be working (as little as possible) to live.
Germany and France have allowed a large emmigration of Arabic/Islamic peoples into their nations. Their oppposition to the US conquest of Arabic lands is motivated by obvious self-interest.
As an American and a US Citizen, I personally think that the attack against Iraq is irrational and potentially counterproductive. However, it is my hope that at some point our nation insists upon guaranteed civil rights for our (current) subject Arabic nations; ideally, I would like to see the Bill of Rights from our own Constitution as a major component of any new government formed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
However, I do not think that our current Presidential regieme has the foresight for such action. Bush must be replaced as soon as possible. It would be hard to imagine a candidate with less foreign policy acumen.
I go to school up in Tallahassee, at Florida State University. I'm a democrat (well that is what it says on my voters registration card.)
The writing in the Tallahassee Democrat is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever seen. Besides the articles written by the A.P. the newspaper is nothing but columns with little facts and one might as well be reading a tabloid.
I hope you don't read that newspaper every day, it'll warp your poor little mind more then internet porn.
I understand that some might think that SCO is in the right, but how does Linux equal music piracy and communism? I lived in communism, I did't get a say in what went on. They need to read a few good history books.
Even if some code from SCO got in (probably nothing that wasn't available already) how does that make every Linux user a thief? How am I a thief? I didn't steal anything from SCO, so don't call me a thief!
Free speech is getting expensive...
Great, another Republican "Father and Son" team.
This is almost funny. On second thought, no maybe its not.
It's odd that SCO would align themselves once removed to the blithering idiot that went on a rant last week about destroying computers remotely. On second thought, no maybe its not.
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
Icehouse is an "ale" and not a beer.
I know I'm picking nits here, but last I heard both pilsners and ales were both considered beers.
talk about off topic, just another america hater who is a bastard.
There was actually quite an interesting article in Wired about this: USA usually tries to enforce other to behave the way they would like them to. EU tells others (e.g. former soviet union countries, Turkey etc.) that we will do business with you if you change your bad ways; or you might even be able to join EU if you do this and that...
That point seemed quite insightful (and also simple) to me: US is trying to bully other countries to behave - as soon as you turn your back they start behaving right as they did ealier (and as an added bonus you have made one more enemy). EU instead is offering other countries something in turn for behaving nicely... It should be quite easy to figure out which approach usually works better.
But an opportunity to whip up public support for the cause appears to have been wasted here.
In the small, local community where all of these people live, work, and see each other at their children's PTA meetings, you don't "whip up public support" by acting like crazed San Francisco PETA protestors screaming thru megaphones, blocking traffic, vandalizing property, wearing face paint, beating bongo drums and dancing on their neighbors' cars.
In an ordinary community where few people have even heard of Linux but do care about a number of genuine life and death issues, you could certainly whip opposition to "Linux wackos" pretty fast by overdoing the self-righteous outrage over this issue in front of the local news cameras.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
OK, so the French and Germans are not cowards. Your logic is just fine. France and Germany are questionable allies, not to be relied upon. As far as the yes/no option on invasion, I'll admit the evidence (at least what was shared) was circumstantial. However, there was a mutually-exclusive choice: Believe Bush and invade or believe Hussein and go home. At that point, it wasn't all that hard to figure out what had to be done.
France and Germany were not betting that Saddam was anything other than Bush stated. They were betting on his ability to deter or at least keep his dictatorship intact, thus maintaining a useful commercial relationship. If SCO were a UN member, I'm sure they would join the French and German position as well, although a buyout would flip them 180 degrees in an instant.
Communism and Nazism aren't that different. Communism says the individual must sacrifice himself for the collective, while Nazism says an individual must sacrifice himself for the state. Neither system recognises the individual as important.
Vote for Pedro
I disagree. Carrying out military attacks on unarmed and unwarned civilian populations is the very definition of cowardice. If they had attacked military bases, on the other hand, that might have required some bravery.
The fact that the terrorists died in the attacks doesn't stop them being cowards either. If intel is to be believed, only the guy flying the plane knew what the whole plan was. Besides, even if they had all known, suicide is not inherently brave.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Those photographs were taken in front of a building which is owned or rented by a company which may or may not own, in whole or in part, various versions of the UNIX operating system, and are therefor derivative works. As such, they are the property of SCO. The photographer and the manufacturer of the camera are hereby ordered to cease and desist photographic activity and manufacture of equipment facilitating same, respectively, until such time as said criminals *Dr. Evil voice* pay SCO one million, dollars. Mwahahahahahah!!!
Thank you. Drive through.
is one crosshair from being funny.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If they have stock, and they do win, they will no have to work again.
AAMOF, it would surprise me if SCO managment offered stock to keep people around. Hell, if they need someone, they offer 10,000 shares if they stay for a year. The worker would still get a lot of money because the case won't be over in a year and there stock will probably increase based on the talk alone.
Could you imagane being part of a stock program last year and slowly watching your stock turn to nothing, then WHAM it's up 1440%?
If I worked at SCO and had a few thousand share, I might ride this out. If it fails, I'll just lie on my resume with something nicer, like I was in prison.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You really need to wathc less XFiles.
Almost everybody knows what are ancestors did to the indians. Bio warefare, etc... It was wrong and everybody I know considers it a damn shame.
I pretty much learned any bad thing the US has done since there has been an US in public school.
BTW, there is know way to know the original number of indians. Please don't forget the tribe to tribe warfare that killed many as well. America would be a lot different if the tribes orginized against a common threat instad of back stabbing each other.
Schoold teach MORE about and MORE accurate information SINCE the 50s'
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The GPL was designed becouse some firms where using the code that some people had donated to the world and once it was modified and used by some companies they found they had to pay for it.
All the IP in Linux and Open Software is a huge donation to the world. Free, just becouse some people think that we don't need money to help our peers.
But SCO wants, once again, to use and control what others have built with the effort of years. They are kindnapping the IP that is free for the world. They known that even if they found some copied lines they would be changed soon (a day or two) They maintain the secret becouse it is the only power.
I think that IBM should force them to act soon.
Some people may have their doubts as to how benign Linux is, but they are mostly trolls.
And you aren't a troll?
So would laws banning the gifts in the bidding stage.
In most states I am familiar with it is already illegal to give gifts to government employees, has been for many years. The prohibitions are quite extreme, govt employees can't even accept a paid lunch, but possibly a pen or a pad of paper. I don't see many people giving up their careers for office supplies.
In contrast, the proposed law to which you refer give control of software to the people for the good of the government.
It is unclear to me how you can interpret the banning of commercial software in government purchases as anything other than an attempt to exert state control on the software industry.
Oh yes, it's "presumably for the good of the people".
That bill says nothing whatsoever about banning proprietary software.
Please, at least be honest with yourself.
Read Section 3, which basically states that any company wanting to sell software to the State of California must give up it's Copyright.
Oooooh, another consultant tells me why I should be using Windows instead, this time because a bunch of pimply 13-year-olds make Linux look bad.
I don't recall the article saying you should use Windows. It simply questioned the business justification of a religious argument.
He's also the first person I've read who actually takes all of SCO's claims seriously, which is sort of bizarre.
Interesting, I've seen several such articles. But then I tend to read a variety business rags and trade journals, not just Linux specific sites for my news. I guess it must be easier living in a world where your notions are never questioned.
I thought you said the main criterion should be whether Linux does the job or not?
Actually I believe I asked you if that shouldn't be the main criterion. You agreed. Do you want to distance yourself from that agreement now that your anti-IP views are coming to the surface?
As the creator of the original Protest Protest that ran successfully in Portland, Oregon for more than two months I'm considering taking legal action against SCO for damaging my intellectual property. The concepts of irony, humor and sarcasm and their derivative works are my sole property. Much of my IP has been copied verbatim, while some of it (for example humor) have been disguised enough not to be funny, but are still obvious copies. I'll provide specific examples never, but you're encouraged to speculate wildly until then. Current users of ironic works are encouraged to purchase a license to avoid legal issues. In case you're wondering the Protest Protest is real. Go to OutsideWorld if you don't believe me.
Don't mess with the bunny, outsideworld.org
...is not synonymous of military invasion, no matter how you and your idols in the White House spin it.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Don't worry, we are far more concerned about our european countries than about your miserable politics. That is your matter. We would leave you alone, if only you let us! But let's see, your always sticking your noose everywhere. At least, you could do it equally in every country with dictatorships. Obviously, you don't. And still expect us europeans to support your asses and hail. The difference between us and you is that we don't proclam ourselves as noble or kings of the world. Which you do, hooney. Oh, I love Madonna, Marilyn Manson, Tori Amos and Howard Stern. But that is a choice and it doesn't make me an america lover. I am so european. My exams weren't little ticks. I had to write more than 12 pages in two hours just on History. Sorry, but that's how come europeans get a whole less stupid than americans. Am I generalizing? Am I putting you all in the same bag? How bad.
The link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda must be the "Q" both have on their names. Of course the US won't care about the dozens of countries with similar dictators. It's much more easy to attack a bunch of old men with rough weapons and no food and cry Victory. Losers. Both of them.
Carrying out military attacks on unarmed and unwarned civilian populations is the very definition of cowardice
Look up 'cowardice' in the dictionary. The one I looked in defines it as:
1. Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain. 2. Want of courage to face danger; extreme timidity; pusillanimity; base fear of danger or hurt; lack of spirit. 3. The trait of lacking courage.
I don't see how you can believe that the 9/11 terrorrists showed 'extreme timidity', or 'fear of danger or hurt', or especially 'lack of spirit.'
Their acts were terrible, wrong, evil, sinful, etc. But they did not demonstrate cowardice. I will not mutilate the meaning of a word just to lob an insult no matter how nasty I think the recipient is.
Sorry I missed most of the discussion, but I had to get in my 2 cents.
Want of courage to face danger. They could have attacked a dangerous foe, but chose to attack a harmless target.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Of course they could have attacked a dangerous foe. However, that doesn't change the meaning of the word 'cowardice' to suit your purpose. The definition you chose, "Want of courage to face danger", means that a person with cowardice lacks the necessary courage to face a dangerous situation. They hijacked the planes and killed themselves and many others. That is a dangerous situation for all involved. By the simple fact that they carried through with their actions they demonstrated that they did not lack the courage to do it.
Your response states that they "chose to attack a harmless target". You are incorrectly implying that because they could have done something more honorable, they are cowards for the actions that took place. Lack of performing a brave action does not necessarily make one a coward. Try and think of a day that you didn't go out of your way to do something particularly brave (there must be one sometime). Your use of the word 'cowardice' would imply that you were a coward that day. That is certainly not correct.
It's not mere lack of performing a brave action; it's performing a non-brave action in preference to the brave alternative that makes one a coward.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
1. Performing a non-brave action in preference to the brave alternative does not make one a coward. Running from a dangerous situation, when faced with one, makes one a coward. This is not a world where if you are not classified at an extreme (e.g. brave), you are automatically classified as the opposite (e.g. coward). Following that logic, you could say that if you are not hot, you are cold.
2. The braveness of an action is determined exclusively by the person performing the action. If one thinks something is not brave, but another person is performing the action and that other person considers it a courageous, brave action, then that is what it is. An outside judgment of the ethics / honorability / braveness, etc. has no bearing on whether or not the person performing the action did so with courage. This is my guess (which I obviously can't corroborate): The terrorists probably recognized the supreme danger of their situation. They approached it and carried out their plan. If they in fact recognized the danger beforehand, that means that they acted bravely and courageously (i.e. *not* cowardly). So, as an outsider making a judgment on their actions, I can say that they were despicable, but I have no right to say they acted cowardly.