"So, in short, no. I don't see where your complaint is coming from. You should have been able to change it in 5 minutes, even if you hunt and peck x-c-o-n-f-i-g-u-r-a-t-o-r."
That'd be a good response if I had said "I can't change resolutions at all!". Actually what I was saying was "I had to research how to do that.", which is not a winning situation for Mr. Joe Longneck. All that just so I can fiddle with my resolution a bit. 7.3 could have at least provided a shortcut to run xconfigurator.
Thanks for the info on Xserver. I bookmarked your response here so I can invesigate it more thoroguhly.
"Sorry, I don't know RedHat at all - I must admit that I'm a Mandrake man, so far it's been working like a charm and it's very newbie-friendly (I've only been using Linux for a year or so...)"
I understand. I'm looking into getting Mandrake or Suse to play with.
Just wanted to say I appreciate you educating me here. I've had to defend myself a few times and it's rather tiring. I get the impression people'd rather argue about what's wrong with Microsoft than support a newcomer to the Linux world heh. Oh well, I'm not without sin. I had to issue a couple of apologies as well.
"Guess what? Your hypothetical X problem is not Linux' fault, but the distro vendor's. Two can play at this game, you know. "
Yeah, I found that out after getting the shit flamed out of me for it. I had mistakenly assumed that KDE/Gnome were at fault for not providing a UI for me. It really isn't easy for a newb to find this stuff out " I did not even make remarks on the relative difficulty of using a shell vs. using regedit"
That wasn't my point. The point was that Linux needs more.CONF editing than Windows needs Reg editing.
But you know what? Turns out I was in error there. Evidentally (as explained by other users who were interested in educating me as opposed to arguing with me out of Linux Zealousy) different distros do different things, and that I'm operating on the distro that is probably the worst desktop experience of all of them. So I concede on that point in advance, even though I'm not experienced with other distros. I have faith that these people aren't just yanking my chain. So I'm going to try another distro. (Probably Suse, but Mandrake's been highly recommended as well.)
"BTW, by not addressing it, I see you agree with my statement that your problem was an uncommon one. Thank you."
I didn't addess it because I didn't think you'd handle it rationally. You took credit for it, heh, and thus my prophecy is fulfilled.
"You can't even do the minimum of analysis to see that your problem is not common,"
That'd be a valid point if I were a Systems Analyst for Linux.
"and you can't even do the minimum analysis to read and comprehend another's point."
You could easily be acccused of that as well.
"That points to you entering this argument biased and just plain disregarding anything that does not fit your bias."
Nope, I gotta contend this. I had a guy come along and give me some education on where my mistakes were. He was very polite, and took the time to understand my point of view. You did not do that. You argued with me point for point. If I'm guilty of your accusation, you are as well. If I were so 'biased' like you said, I wouldn't be trying other distros.
"That is a common problem, and one that is usually and quickly helped with if you ask your questions in the right places in the right manner."
I already got it fixed. I didn't come here for support on an existing problem, but rather some enlightenment on what I could have done better. And I got that info.
" Using a strawman argument to reiterate FUD we've been hearing for literally years will earn you flames though, and protesting that you get flamed brands you as not very smart at best"
That's a fair point. You're right, I could have handled it better.
I will point out, though, that a couple of people were helpful. There needs to be more people like that clearing up misconceptions about Linux. Turning it into a an MS vs Linux rathole really can never end with a definitive result.
"You're merely complaining that the Diag APPLICATION on Linux isn't the same as it is on Windows. boo hoo."
No, I'm complaining about an application that simply didn't exist.
If you had read the other posts before responding to mine, you would have seen that the issue was that I'm running Redhat 7.3. It doesn't provide a GUI for changing resolutions. Turns out if I were using a more desktop friendly distro like SuSe or Mandrake, I'd have had better luck.
If you had taken the time to find out a little more about what was happening, and *gasp* been supportive (as opposed to trying to prove that the problem didn't exist and that I'm a liar), you would have saved yourself a lot of typing here.
I'm sitting here, trying to use Linux, and nearly everybody attacked me for having a legitimate complaint about one of the distros. I was in error in not realizing that the problem wasn't with Linux in general, just with my particular distro. And how was I supposed to know? I'm a newb! If the community's going to treat newbs like this, then Linux is going to have a long way to go towards desktop adoption.
"Note that this is not a driver issue. It's a Winblows issue, every card works the same. With no exceptions."
Okay, I understand now. I had never heard of this issue before. Thank you for providing me with info on it.
"A quick Google search would have turned up the whole story [xp-refresh.net]."
When I read what the other guy was talking about, it sounded like Nvidia had made another driver f-up that required a hack to fix. Fault me for not searching for it if you like, I'm using XP on my laptop so this issue wouldn't have come up for me. (60hz on an LCD doesn't flicker.)
"Just a few lines up it "wasn't Microsoft's fault", now it's 100% irrelevant? Wow. "
I made a mistake here. I didn't catch the 'undocumented' part of your response. I concede on your point there, I apologize for not reading it more clearly.
"So does SuSE So does SuSE So does SuSE "
You know, this didn't ring very highly with me because I assumed KDE was the culprit here for not providing the interface for it. It didn't occur to me that the other distros had fixed it. You see, nobody told me before that Redhat was meant for servers. As stated before, I'm a newb. I don't understand why this couldn't have been explained to me sooner. Everybody assumed I was making shit up, and it never occured to them that I was using a distro that caused my complaints.
"OK, I have a 40GB WD harddrive I bought about a year ago which is not recognized by neither my Intel P2-350 nor my Athlon 650 (very, very different systems as you probably notice), so this harddrive could work in Windows only with a BIOS update, if at all. "
Heh nice trap there. If I say that MS is at fault, then you'll assume I'm conceding on a point that I don't agree with you on. If I say that it's a hardware issue, you'll accuse me of being an MS zealot, no matter what common sense dictates. Heh whatever.
"You illiterate ignorant still equate Linux with RedHat. "
Oh fuck off. You had an opportunity to educate me on that matter, instead you were vague and turnedd it into an anti-MS tit-for-tat response. "Oh yeah? Well Windows has the registry! And it's bad!" Don't call me ignorant if you're not willing to be more helpful in clearing up understandings.
"If you say that RedHat sucks on the home desktop, we have an agreement. (on the corporate desktop RedHat's shortcomings are not that severe because you have hopefully good admins) But if you say that Linux sucks on the desktop you are just dead wrong. "
Okay. I'll give you that. You know, people talk about distros etc, nobody ever mentions how far behind RedHat is. As for it beingn ready for the desktop or not, the jury's still out on that. Tell you what, though: I'm willing to go find out. I'll see about hunting down SuSe and trying it out. I hope you're right. I would like to switch to Linux, but so far it's been extremely painful. If Suse eases that, then I'll concede about Linux being on the desktop.
I owe you an apology btw, I didn't read your nickname when I responded and mistook you for another guy that I was having a debate with. I wasa unnecesarily heated when I responded to you. I'm sorry, that was rude of me. At least your time wasn't wasted, I'm going to hunt down Suse and see if it solves my problems. In other words, I learned sommething from you.
"Do you have any idea at all how difficult it is to use the registry? Even advanced users get it wrong. How many times in PC magazines have you seen the answer to a question start with "Well, first back up your registry, editing the registry is dangerous....""
What you said is absolutely true. The registry sucks. It's not something you need to use Windows, though. Editing.Conf files may be somewhat more pleasant, but is needed far more often.
"What kind of an attitude is that? I'm a Systems Analyst, so if you don't agree with me you're a mindless zealot?"
Wow, you quoted the entire line I said but didn't pick up on it's meaning. I was saying that ignoring my comment makes you a Mindless Linux Zealot. I didn't say anything about agreeing. BTW, I was right that you'd attack my credibility.
This comment: "That's a bloody arrogant attitude." mixed with this comment: "Every distro I've tried has such a GUI. KDE and GNOME themselves don't provide it, the distro plugs it in, so if you didn't see one then either you were using a distro meant for users who don't mind text files, or you didn't look hard enough. Only, to fix a problem like that, you better know your way around shell." -- is really quite amusing. I have an attitude problem, but it's okay for a distro to be weak if it's not meant for me? How am I supposed to know I'm using a bad distro? Nobody ever makes this distinction when they sing the praise of Linux.
"Problems inflict all operating systems, to pretend that if something doesn't work in Windows it's an isolated case that isn't Microsofts fault is ridiculous."
Oh please. Linux and NVidia have historically had problems playing nice with each other, I never hear anybody blaming Linux for it. The truth of the matter is you're biased against MS, so every problem you've ever had with Windows has had the finger pointed at MS, as opposed to the people who really caused the problem. What's funny is that you're the second person who's said "Oh yeah, well it's automatically MS's fault" without really thinking about the true nature of the problem.
"First, editing self-documented config files (which can be done easily without knowing the shell) is several orders of magnitude easier than changing undocumented registry keys with strange names."
100% irrelevant. Windows has nearly all functionality exposed through the UI. One can go nearly their entire lives without editing their registry. Me personally, I had Windows variants for 3 years before I touched the registry editor once. Linux, on the other hand.... *SmACk* You lose.
"Secondly your double standard shows. If it's a Windows problem it is automatically "not Microsoft's fault". I've got news for you: It doesn't matter whose fault it is and if it did it isn't Linux' fault when the same thing happens on Linux."
Err okay. So you accuse me of a double standard, even though you cannot provide a rebuttal to my point. I think the likelyhood here is that I shot you down. *SmAcK 2*
"So does SuSE - and it is integrated seamlessly in the KDE control center."
Good for SuSe. I'm using RedHat. Though I praise SuSe for doing the right thing, if they can't standardize Linux to be usable across all distros, they got an uphill battle. Fortunately, Redhat 8 (from what I've heard) has fixed that problem. It's nice to see Linux catching up to Windows 98 functionality by 2002.
No need for a *SmAcK* there.
"Also the KDE control center is much better to use because it's organized in a tree-like structure. Windows' config center is just a directory with random utilities thrown in which are sorted alphabetically (sheesh)."
a.) All the organization in the world doesn't make up for the fact that it isn't there.
b.) Heh okay. So MS has all the config stuff in one Control Panel (unlike Redhat), but because they sort it alphabetically that's a bad thing? Ha! As for 'random utilities', I have no idea what you're talking about. I can only guess that you're lumping 'Accessories' in with 'Control Panel'. If that's the case, you're making absolutely no point. I guess I could bring up all the non-descript utilities that begin with K on KDE (and accessible through Gnome), but my 'double standard' would be showing because Linux can do no wrong, right?
*SmAcK 3* You're out.
Let's do an instant replay, shall we?
1.) The first smack came when you equated editing conf files to editing the registry, even though Windows has UI's set up for every aspect of configuration.
2.) The second smack came from this comment: "If it's a Windows problem it is automatically 'not Microsoft's fault'.", so a vendor can't do wrong? Ha! I hear about how NVidia has botched Linux drivers time and time again, nobody's blaming Linux for it however. What's laughable about that is you're accusing me have having a double standard.
3.) The third one came when you tried to pick on how Windows provides a UI to people wanting to configure their machine. Tsk tsk, Windows beats Linux there hands down.
Re:that makes no sense
on
Kazaa Fights Back
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
"so....they want to say that their operation of sharing files that are a violation of a copyright is legal because they intend to make money off of it? that makes no sense. either im as dumb as i sound, or they missed something when thinking up this model."
When I used Kazaa, I ran across some sponsored content that they promoted. If memory serves, it was a music video, but I can't remember the band. (Wasn't my thing)
They got me to download it and authorize a license etc. Though I didn't like the music, I thought it was kinda cool. If they could get movies to me this way, I would have no problem spending money on it.
Before I start with my response here, I just want to express my gratitude for taking the time to help me. I *really* appreciate it. I think you probably understand how frustrated I've been!
"Changing resolutions dynamically is possible by doing Ctrl-Alt-plus or Ctrl-Alt-minus, though that will not change the actual desktop size, which is less than ideal."
I've tried to do that (trying right now actually..) but it's not working. It occurs to me, though, that I'm on a laptop. I've tried doing the right FN combination, but doesn't appear to be working. Oh well. Doesn't sound like it's my favorite option.
" Expect it to be usable in control panel form as early as KDE 3.2 (due some time in the spring, I guess)."
That's good news! I'll be sure to check up on their progress once in a while.
"...you can change the screen resolution for the next time you restart X without actually editing XF86Config-4, using the appropriate GUI app that comes with your distro..."
I'm using Redhat and have been unable to locate anything like that. Could you steer me in the right direction? I did do a search, but it hasn't proven fruitful. Even an idea what keywords to search for would be helpful. I'd kinda prefer to be taught to fish, if you know what I mean.
"... however you are mistaken on all other accounts"
I have no idea. I'm tired and frustrated. I think you understand, though. I appreciate your willingness to help.
"In any case, this is really not a big issue, as most people don't resize their desktop once they've set it up to their liking..."
I wouldn't be so quick to generalize about that. Lots of people I know are getting LCD's in the next year. They're not as versatile as CRTs when it comes to resolutions etc. Chances are, a significant portion of these people are going to have to make a change to their resolution. Though I'll happily concede that once they've done that they aren't too likely to do it again, I do think that it's on the horizon for a number of people. That's really all I meant.
I had to change video modes, and it involved editing files and restarting X. I am not making this up. If there was a better way, then fine, there was a better way. I'm not claiming there's not. Unfortunately, niether KDE nor Gnome made this terribly easy for me.
If you can tell me how to do this from within the UI then you'd be doing me a huge, HUGE favor.
If you're not willing to tell me how to do that, then it'd strike me that there is kernel of truth to what I was saying.
Either way, your reaction to what I said is exactly what the parent poster was talking about.
The funny thing is I didn't actually say that's a problem, I said "if". There's a huge difference there. I may not have communicated this too well, but the point I was trying to make was editing text files to configure your machine is a breaking point for Joe Longneck. You cannot expect users to have to learn how to do all that for something simple they'll inevitably do down the road. I ran into a situation like that a week ago, it burned me, and it's the example that came to mind when I posted that.
So far, I've gotten nothing but "It couldn't have happened, you must be lying" responses. Gee.
"Therefore, since this is not a common failing (as you yourself admit it might not be), and since similar problems on Windows are as complex to find a solution for, your snide remarks at config file editing were uncalled for..."
My comment was very much called for. First off, your example is not relevant. The problem with Nvidia's card (assuming that problem ever existed, let's pretend it did) was not Microsoft's fault. Video support in Windows works very well. If it took a registry hack to make the Nvidia card work, then Nvidia fucked up pretty bad. Know what that means? It means that Linux is just as vulnerable to problems like that. Only, to fix a problem like that, you better know your way around shell.
Secondly, MS provides you with a UI to install, configure, and troubleshoot video card problems. If KDE or Gnome has something like that, I've yet to find it. Strike 2 against Linux.
"I did point out that in the vast majority of cases your comment is inapplicable"
So let me get this straight: Having to enter shell and edit a text file is a totally acceptable way for Joe Longneck to maintain his machine? Sorry bud, you missed my point entirely. I'd try to explain it more clearly if I thought you would respond rationally, instead you're trying to attack my credibility. Pity though, you really should listen. I'm a Systems Analyst. My job is to make my company's products usable. If that's not credibiilty enough to let you know when something's broken from the user-end point of view, then you are ready to be promoted to Mindless Linux Zealot.
"Your sneer of 'how typical' is more typical of Linux-bashing MS astroturfer trying to deflect attention from the fact that he's been caught out."
Heh. I could say the same for your response to my comment. "Oh yeah? Oh YEAH?! Well Windows has the.. uh. registry! Yeah! And it.. uh.. well I'll make up something and present it as a devastating blow to your case! That way, I won't have to answer the tough questions about how usable Linux really is! Yeah!!"
You're nitpicking the details (like a true MS Bashing Linux Astroturfer) trying to prove that the problem I had didn't really exist. So yeah, you deserved the 'how typical' comment.
"Problems will happen on any system, but if you can't even do enough research to find out that your problem is not common, you shouldn't be surprised if people give you attitude."
How am I or John Longneck supposed to know if it's common or not? That's exactly what this thread is about. You Linux Zealots think the user has to know more about their computer than they should to make it work. It's your attitude that it's not called for. "Well your problem isn't commmon, so we don't need to address it'. Bull-fucking-shit. What happened to me is exactly the type of problem that'll make somebody say "Fuck it, I'm installing Windows. It works."
So yeah, I can undrstand your defensive attitude. You were 'caught out' just like the guy who started this thread predicted. Thank you for illustrating his point.
Everyone copy and paste this letter and send it to the Republican National Committee [mailto] : Dear Republican National Committee, I am opposed to your use of form letters in your activists efforts. I think people should express their own opinions in their own words. Sincerely, (insert your name here)
"Sir, there's another letter for you from a Mr. 'I.Y. Name Here'. Should I put it on your desk with the others?"
"If we were to make them write an individual letter, with the state our society has collectively fallen into, I'd estimate about 2-3% of the current correspondence mailed would still be mailed."
Nar, we live in the email age, there'd be a much bigger turn out. However, excessive use of the word 'suck' would probably get a lot of e-mails accidentally deleted.
I agree, boilerplate activism definitely works better.
"Please be so kind as to take your stale FUD elsewhere."
FUD? This is last week's experience. Changing video modes is a bitch.
If that's not the average experience, that's fine. If people are having my experience, then that's another story.
As for what I actually said in my comment, it was not as much a gripe about a problem I had last week, but more of a reflection of some of the problems that plague Linux. It's really meant to be used with the CLI. Simple as that. You can ignore my complaint (how typical) or you can address it. You chose to accuse me of spreading fud. If that's the type of bs newbs like me are going to have to deal with, then the parent poster is right, you can forget about Linux ever making it mainstream.
" As far as "previewing" music via illegal MP3 downloads, consider that there are people who really do work that way. I want to be legit, but P2P is the best preview service available."
I've noticed that few of the bands I've typed in have produced entire albums served by the same user. This suggests to me that people aren't running around trading albums, but rather they search for a band they've heard of and download the songs that are the most popular. This strikes me as the behaviour of curiosity, NOT the behaviour of somebody trying to save a few bucks.
If what I've seen is indicative of a significant population of the P2P networks, then the RIAA has absolutely no case. If one does not download the whole album, then they have not stolen. There's still plenty of value in the rest of the CD.
Is the value diminished? Some would say yes, I would say not really. The truth of the matter is that somebody searching for new music to try isn't likely to invest much time into checking the band out, thus the sale's never made. Now, the band has exposure that it never had before. One of two things are likely to happen: 1.) the user is first in line to buy the next CD produced by that group 2.) the user can recommend this music to somebody with similar tastes. Even if the CD isn't purchased to legitimize the claim, there is absolutely no basis for claiming money is lost in the situation I described.
The truth of the matter, though, is that everybody's got their own way of working. Most of the demand there is either directly or indirectly leading into revenue. If that's not enough for them, then they should consider identifying why people are downloading music and figure out how to make money with it.
Slashdot Mirror
"I've had more insightful things come out of my penis."
Unfortunately this has never been witnessed by a female.
"So, in short, no. I don't see where your complaint is coming from. You should have been able to change it in 5 minutes, even if you hunt and peck x-c-o-n-f-i-g-u-r-a-t-o-r."
That'd be a good response if I had said "I can't change resolutions at all!". Actually what I was saying was "I had to research how to do that.", which is not a winning situation for Mr. Joe Longneck. All that just so I can fiddle with my resolution a bit. 7.3 could have at least provided a shortcut to run xconfigurator.
Oh well, doesn't matter anymore. I'm downloading Mandrake.
Thanks for the info on Xserver. I bookmarked your response here so I can invesigate it more thoroguhly.
:)
"Sorry, I don't know RedHat at all - I must admit that I'm a Mandrake man, so far it's been working like a charm and it's very newbie-friendly (I've only been using Linux for a year or so...)"
I understand. I'm looking into getting Mandrake or Suse to play with.
Just wanted to say I appreciate you educating me here. I've had to defend myself a few times and it's rather tiring. I get the impression people'd rather argue about what's wrong with Microsoft than support a newcomer to the Linux world heh. Oh well, I'm not without sin. I had to issue a couple of apologies as well.
Thanks man.
"Guess what? Your hypothetical X problem is not Linux' fault, but the distro vendor's. Two can play at this game, you know. "
.CONF editing than Windows needs Reg editing.
Yeah, I found that out after getting the shit flamed out of me for it. I had mistakenly assumed that KDE/Gnome were at fault for not providing a UI for me. It really isn't easy for a newb to find this stuff out
" I did not even make remarks on the relative difficulty of using a shell vs. using regedit"
That wasn't my point. The point was that Linux needs more
But you know what? Turns out I was in error there. Evidentally (as explained by other users who were interested in educating me as opposed to arguing with me out of Linux Zealousy) different distros do different things, and that I'm operating on the distro that is probably the worst desktop experience of all of them. So I concede on that point in advance, even though I'm not experienced with other distros. I have faith that these people aren't just yanking my chain. So I'm going to try another distro. (Probably Suse, but Mandrake's been highly recommended as well.)
"BTW, by not addressing it, I see you agree with my statement that your problem was an uncommon one. Thank you."
I didn't addess it because I didn't think you'd handle it rationally. You took credit for it, heh, and thus my prophecy is fulfilled.
"You can't even do the minimum of analysis to see that your problem is not common,"
That'd be a valid point if I were a Systems Analyst for Linux.
"and you can't even do the minimum analysis to read and comprehend another's point."
You could easily be acccused of that as well.
"That points to you entering this argument biased and just plain disregarding anything that does not fit your bias."
Nope, I gotta contend this. I had a guy come along and give me some education on where my mistakes were. He was very polite, and took the time to understand my point of view. You did not do that. You argued with me point for point. If I'm guilty of your accusation, you are as well. If I were so 'biased' like you said, I wouldn't be trying other distros.
"That is a common problem, and one that is usually and quickly helped with if you ask your questions in the right places in the right manner."
I already got it fixed. I didn't come here for support on an existing problem, but rather some enlightenment on what I could have done better. And I got that info.
" Using a strawman argument to reiterate FUD we've been hearing for literally years will earn you flames though, and protesting that you get flamed brands you as not very smart at best"
That's a fair point. You're right, I could have handled it better.
I will point out, though, that a couple of people were helpful. There needs to be more people like that clearing up misconceptions about Linux. Turning it into a an MS vs Linux rathole really can never end with a definitive result.
"You're merely complaining that the Diag APPLICATION on Linux isn't the same as it is on Windows. boo hoo."
No, I'm complaining about an application that simply didn't exist.
If you had read the other posts before responding to mine, you would have seen that the issue was that I'm running Redhat 7.3. It doesn't provide a GUI for changing resolutions. Turns out if I were using a more desktop friendly distro like SuSe or Mandrake, I'd have had better luck.
If you had taken the time to find out a little more about what was happening, and *gasp* been supportive (as opposed to trying to prove that the problem didn't exist and that I'm a liar), you would have saved yourself a lot of typing here.
I'm sitting here, trying to use Linux, and nearly everybody attacked me for having a legitimate complaint about one of the distros. I was in error in not realizing that the problem wasn't with Linux in general, just with my particular distro. And how was I supposed to know? I'm a newb! If the community's going to treat newbs like this, then Linux is going to have a long way to go towards desktop adoption.
"Note that this is not a driver issue. It's a Winblows issue, every card works the same. With no exceptions."
Okay, I understand now. I had never heard of this issue before. Thank you for providing me with info on it.
"A quick Google search would have turned up the whole story [xp-refresh.net]."
When I read what the other guy was talking about, it sounded like Nvidia had made another driver f-up that required a hack to fix. Fault me for not searching for it if you like, I'm using XP on my laptop so this issue wouldn't have come up for me. (60hz on an LCD doesn't flicker.)
"Just a few lines up it "wasn't Microsoft's fault", now it's 100% irrelevant? Wow. "
I made a mistake here. I didn't catch the 'undocumented' part of your response. I concede on your point there, I apologize for not reading it more clearly.
"So does SuSE So does SuSE So does SuSE "
You know, this didn't ring very highly with me because I assumed KDE was the culprit here for not providing the interface for it. It didn't occur to me that the other distros had fixed it. You see, nobody told me before that Redhat was meant for servers. As stated before, I'm a newb. I don't understand why this couldn't have been explained to me sooner. Everybody assumed I was making shit up, and it never occured to them that I was using a distro that caused my complaints.
"OK, I have a 40GB WD harddrive I bought about a year ago which is not recognized by neither my Intel P2-350 nor my Athlon 650 (very, very different systems as you probably notice), so this harddrive could work in Windows only with a BIOS update, if at all. "
Heh nice trap there. If I say that MS is at fault, then you'll assume I'm conceding on a point that I don't agree with you on. If I say that it's a hardware issue, you'll accuse me of being an MS zealot, no matter what common sense dictates. Heh whatever.
"You illiterate ignorant still equate Linux with RedHat. "
Oh fuck off. You had an opportunity to educate me on that matter, instead you were vague and turnedd it into an anti-MS tit-for-tat response. "Oh yeah? Well Windows has the registry! And it's bad!" Don't call me ignorant if you're not willing to be more helpful in clearing up understandings.
"If you say that RedHat sucks on the home desktop, we have an agreement. (on the corporate desktop RedHat's shortcomings are not that severe because you have hopefully good admins) But if you say that Linux sucks on the desktop you are just dead wrong. "
Okay. I'll give you that. You know, people talk about distros etc, nobody ever mentions how far behind RedHat is. As for it beingn ready for the desktop or not, the jury's still out on that. Tell you what, though: I'm willing to go find out. I'll see about hunting down SuSe and trying it out. I hope you're right. I would like to switch to Linux, but so far it's been extremely painful. If Suse eases that, then I'll concede about Linux being on the desktop.
I owe you an apology btw, I didn't read your nickname when I responded and mistook you for another guy that I was having a debate with. I wasa unnecesarily heated when I responded to you. I'm sorry, that was rude of me. At least your time wasn't wasted, I'm going to hunt down Suse and see if it solves my problems. In other words, I learned sommething from you.
Cheers
"Do you have any idea at all how difficult it is to use the registry? Even advanced users get it wrong. How many times in PC magazines have you seen the answer to a question start with "Well, first back up your registry, editing the registry is dangerous....""
.Conf files may be somewhat more pleasant, but is needed far more often.
What you said is absolutely true. The registry sucks. It's not something you need to use Windows, though. Editing
"What kind of an attitude is that? I'm a Systems Analyst, so if you don't agree with me you're a mindless zealot?"
Wow, you quoted the entire line I said but didn't pick up on it's meaning. I was saying that ignoring my comment makes you a Mindless Linux Zealot. I didn't say anything about agreeing. BTW, I was right that you'd attack my credibility.
This comment: "That's a bloody arrogant attitude." mixed with this comment: "Every distro I've tried has such a GUI. KDE and GNOME themselves don't provide it, the distro plugs it in, so if you didn't see one then either you were using a distro meant for users who don't mind text files, or you didn't look hard enough. Only, to fix a problem like that, you better know your way around shell." -- is really quite amusing. I have an attitude problem, but it's okay for a distro to be weak if it's not meant for me? How am I supposed to know I'm using a bad distro? Nobody ever makes this distinction when they sing the praise of Linux.
"Problems inflict all operating systems, to pretend that if something doesn't work in Windows it's an isolated case that isn't Microsofts fault is ridiculous."
Oh please. Linux and NVidia have historically had problems playing nice with each other, I never hear anybody blaming Linux for it. The truth of the matter is you're biased against MS, so every problem you've ever had with Windows has had the finger pointed at MS, as opposed to the people who really caused the problem. What's funny is that you're the second person who's said "Oh yeah, well it's automatically MS's fault" without really thinking about the true nature of the problem.
"First, editing self-documented config files (which can be done easily without knowing the shell) is several orders of magnitude easier than changing undocumented registry keys with strange names."
100% irrelevant. Windows has nearly all functionality exposed through the UI. One can go nearly their entire lives without editing their registry. Me personally, I had Windows variants for 3 years before I touched the registry editor once. Linux, on the other hand.... *SmACk* You lose.
"Secondly your double standard shows. If it's a Windows problem it is automatically "not Microsoft's fault". I've got news for you: It doesn't matter whose fault it is and if it did it isn't Linux' fault when the same thing happens on Linux."
Err okay. So you accuse me of a double standard, even though you cannot provide a rebuttal to my point. I think the likelyhood here is that I shot you down. *SmAcK 2*
"So does SuSE - and it is integrated seamlessly in the KDE control center."
Good for SuSe. I'm using RedHat. Though I praise SuSe for doing the right thing, if they can't standardize Linux to be usable across all distros, they got an uphill battle. Fortunately, Redhat 8 (from what I've heard) has fixed that problem. It's nice to see Linux catching up to Windows 98 functionality by 2002.
No need for a *SmAcK* there.
"Also the KDE control center is much better to use because it's organized in a tree-like structure. Windows' config center is just a directory with random utilities thrown in which are sorted alphabetically (sheesh)."
a.) All the organization in the world doesn't make up for the fact that it isn't there.
b.) Heh okay. So MS has all the config stuff in one Control Panel (unlike Redhat), but because they sort it alphabetically that's a bad thing? Ha! As for 'random utilities', I have no idea what you're talking about. I can only guess that you're lumping 'Accessories' in with 'Control Panel'. If that's the case, you're making absolutely no point. I guess I could bring up all the non-descript utilities that begin with K on KDE (and accessible through Gnome), but my 'double standard' would be showing because Linux can do no wrong, right?
*SmAcK 3* You're out.
Let's do an instant replay, shall we?
1.) The first smack came when you equated editing conf files to editing the registry, even though Windows has UI's set up for every aspect of configuration.
2.) The second smack came from this comment: "If it's a Windows problem it is automatically 'not Microsoft's fault'.", so a vendor can't do wrong? Ha! I hear about how NVidia has botched Linux drivers time and time again, nobody's blaming Linux for it however. What's laughable about that is you're accusing me have having a double standard.
3.) The third one came when you tried to pick on how Windows provides a UI to people wanting to configure their machine. Tsk tsk, Windows beats Linux there hands down.
"so....they want to say that their operation of sharing files that are a violation of a copyright is legal because they intend to make money off of it? that makes no sense. either im as dumb as i sound, or they missed something when thinking up this model."
When I used Kazaa, I ran across some sponsored content that they promoted. If memory serves, it was a music video, but I can't remember the band. (Wasn't my thing)
They got me to download it and authorize a license etc. Though I didn't like the music, I thought it was kinda cool. If they could get movies to me this way, I would have no problem spending money on it.
"maybe a quick look through the menus would help ;)" -- It'd help if I had redhat 8 heh. I have 7.3.
:)
I got good news though, my boss has a copy of 8 so maybe I'll have a fix tomorrow.
Thanks man.
"CNET posted an article claiming you could be liable for $250,000 in fines and up to 3 years in prison for p2p file sharing"
Good thing I'm a leecher!
"The whole point of a GUI is the fact that you shouldn't have to be led around by the nose."
:)
That's an amusing comment considering your sig.
So let me see if I understand this: You accused me of being a liar, but you won't back it up with information I was alledgedly 'spreading fud' about?
Okay. I guess I win. You picked the wrong battle to take the high road on.
"But to give ya a solution rather than more griping, RH 8.0 has a utility in the menu... Hope this helps"
Yes it does! I think there's a copy of 8 floating around here somewhere. You saved me 2-3 hours of "is it gonna work? is it gonna work?"
Thanks a bunch!
"This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections. "
Unfortunately, thanks to the recent copyright rulings, nobody will be able to hear or see this content until Fry comes out of cyrogenic sleep.
Before I start with my response here, I just want to express my gratitude for taking the time to help me. I *really* appreciate it. I think you probably understand how frustrated I've been!
"Changing resolutions dynamically is possible by doing Ctrl-Alt-plus or Ctrl-Alt-minus, though that will not change the actual desktop size, which is less than ideal."
I've tried to do that (trying right now actually..) but it's not working. It occurs to me, though, that I'm on a laptop. I've tried doing the right FN combination, but doesn't appear to be working. Oh well. Doesn't sound like it's my favorite option.
" Expect it to be usable in control panel form as early as KDE 3.2 (due some time in the spring, I guess)."
That's good news! I'll be sure to check up on their progress once in a while.
"...you can change the screen resolution for the next time you restart X without actually editing XF86Config-4, using the appropriate GUI app that comes with your distro..."
I'm using Redhat and have been unable to locate anything like that. Could you steer me in the right direction? I did do a search, but it hasn't proven fruitful. Even an idea what keywords to search for would be helpful. I'd kinda prefer to be taught to fish, if you know what I mean.
"... however you are mistaken on all other accounts"
I have no idea. I'm tired and frustrated. I think you understand, though. I appreciate your willingness to help.
"In any case, this is really not a big issue, as most people don't resize their desktop once they've set it up to their liking..."
I wouldn't be so quick to generalize about that. Lots of people I know are getting LCD's in the next year. They're not as versatile as CRTs when it comes to resolutions etc. Chances are, a significant portion of these people are going to have to make a change to their resolution. Though I'll happily concede that once they've done that they aren't too likely to do it again, I do think that it's on the horizon for a number of people. That's really all I meant.
Again, I appreciate the helpful response.
"At worst, the KDE or GNOME team might be guilty of not precisely cloning the Win9x interface."
As I said, tell me how to do it. Where do I hit it?
This is the second time you've brought this up, but you're not telling me how. I am a new Linux user, be HELPFUL instead of trying to discredit me.
I hate this Linux zealousy. Bow to the statue of Linus before you're accepted into the community. Whatever.
"Your comment is simply really mediocre FUD."
I had to change video modes, and it involved editing files and restarting X. I am not making this up. If there was a better way, then fine, there was a better way. I'm not claiming there's not. Unfortunately, niether KDE nor Gnome made this terribly easy for me.
If you can tell me how to do this from within the UI then you'd be doing me a huge, HUGE favor.
If you're not willing to tell me how to do that, then it'd strike me that there is kernel of truth to what I was saying.
Either way, your reaction to what I said is exactly what the parent poster was talking about.
The funny thing is I didn't actually say that's a problem, I said "if". There's a huge difference there. I may not have communicated this too well, but the point I was trying to make was editing text files to configure your machine is a breaking point for Joe Longneck. You cannot expect users to have to learn how to do all that for something simple they'll inevitably do down the road. I ran into a situation like that a week ago, it burned me, and it's the example that came to mind when I posted that.
So far, I've gotten nothing but "It couldn't have happened, you must be lying" responses. Gee.
At this point, it's all speculative so my response would be a redundant rehash of points I've made.
I just wanted to let you know you didn't waste your time writing all that. You may very well be right.
Cheers.
"Therefore, since this is not a common failing (as you yourself admit it might not be), and since similar problems on Windows are as complex to find a solution for, your snide remarks at config file editing were uncalled for..."
.. uh. registry! Yeah! And it.. uh.. well I'll make up something and present it as a devastating blow to your case! That way, I won't have to answer the tough questions about how usable Linux really is! Yeah!!"
My comment was very much called for. First off, your example is not relevant. The problem with Nvidia's card (assuming that problem ever existed, let's pretend it did) was not Microsoft's fault. Video support in Windows works very well. If it took a registry hack to make the Nvidia card work, then Nvidia fucked up pretty bad. Know what that means? It means that Linux is just as vulnerable to problems like that. Only, to fix a problem like that, you better know your way around shell.
Secondly, MS provides you with a UI to install, configure, and troubleshoot video card problems. If KDE or Gnome has something like that, I've yet to find it. Strike 2 against Linux.
"I did point out that in the vast majority of cases your comment is inapplicable"
So let me get this straight: Having to enter shell and edit a text file is a totally acceptable way for Joe Longneck to maintain his machine? Sorry bud, you missed my point entirely. I'd try to explain it more clearly if I thought you would respond rationally, instead you're trying to attack my credibility. Pity though, you really should listen. I'm a Systems Analyst. My job is to make my company's products usable. If that's not credibiilty enough to let you know when something's broken from the user-end point of view, then you are ready to be promoted to Mindless Linux Zealot.
"Your sneer of 'how typical' is more typical of Linux-bashing MS astroturfer trying to deflect attention from the fact that he's been caught out."
Heh. I could say the same for your response to my comment. "Oh yeah? Oh YEAH?! Well Windows has the
You're nitpicking the details (like a true MS Bashing Linux Astroturfer) trying to prove that the problem I had didn't really exist. So yeah, you deserved the 'how typical' comment.
"Problems will happen on any system, but if you can't even do enough research to find out that your problem is not common, you shouldn't be surprised if people give you attitude."
How am I or John Longneck supposed to know if it's common or not? That's exactly what this thread is about. You Linux Zealots think the user has to know more about their computer than they should to make it work. It's your attitude that it's not called for. "Well your problem isn't commmon, so we don't need to address it'. Bull-fucking-shit. What happened to me is exactly the type of problem that'll make somebody say "Fuck it, I'm installing Windows. It works."
So yeah, I can undrstand your defensive attitude. You were 'caught out' just like the guy who started this thread predicted. Thank you for illustrating his point.
"Sir, there's another letter for you from a Mr. 'I.Y. Name Here'. Should I put it on your desk with the others?"
"If we were to make them write an individual letter, with the state our society has collectively fallen into, I'd estimate about 2-3% of the current correspondence mailed would still be mailed."
Nar, we live in the email age, there'd be a much bigger turn out. However, excessive use of the word 'suck' would probably get a lot of e-mails accidentally deleted.
I agree, boilerplate activism definitely works better.
"Please be so kind as to take your stale FUD elsewhere."
FUD? This is last week's experience. Changing video modes is a bitch.
If that's not the average experience, that's fine. If people are having my experience, then that's another story.
As for what I actually said in my comment, it was not as much a gripe about a problem I had last week, but more of a reflection of some of the problems that plague Linux. It's really meant to be used with the CLI. Simple as that. You can ignore my complaint (how typical) or you can address it. You chose to accuse me of spreading fud. If that's the type of bs newbs like me are going to have to deal with, then the parent poster is right, you can forget about Linux ever making it mainstream.
"...will Joe User overcome the stigma that "Linux" is for geeks?"
.CONF file to change video modes because he bought a new monitor.
Not if he has to edit a
" As far as "previewing" music via illegal MP3 downloads, consider that there are people who really do work that way. I want to be legit, but P2P is the best preview service available."
I've noticed that few of the bands I've typed in have produced entire albums served by the same user. This suggests to me that people aren't running around trading albums, but rather they search for a band they've heard of and download the songs that are the most popular. This strikes me as the behaviour of curiosity, NOT the behaviour of somebody trying to save a few bucks.
If what I've seen is indicative of a significant population of the P2P networks, then the RIAA has absolutely no case. If one does not download the whole album, then they have not stolen. There's still plenty of value in the rest of the CD.
Is the value diminished? Some would say yes, I would say not really. The truth of the matter is that somebody searching for new music to try isn't likely to invest much time into checking the band out, thus the sale's never made. Now, the band has exposure that it never had before. One of two things are likely to happen: 1.) the user is first in line to buy the next CD produced by that group 2.) the user can recommend this music to somebody with similar tastes. Even if the CD isn't purchased to legitimize the claim, there is absolutely no basis for claiming money is lost in the situation I described.
The truth of the matter, though, is that everybody's got their own way of working. Most of the demand there is either directly or indirectly leading into revenue. If that's not enough for them, then they should consider identifying why people are downloading music and figure out how to make money with it.