Preserving the Sound of America

jonerik writes "The Associated Press (by way of MSNBC) has this article on the Library of Congress' National Recording Registry, which 'seeks to ensure even greater protection for some of the most notable songs, speeches and other utterances.' To that end, the library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain in Culpeper, Virginia. When construction on the site is completed - in about three years - anything stored in Culpeper should be available via computer at the library's Madison Building on Capitol Hill. The Library of Congress has been collecting recordings for almost 100 years, the first being a recording of a speech by German Emperor Wilhelm II. Since then the library has collected recorded speeches by every American President since Theodore Roosevelt, oral histories, music, radio broadcasts, and other examples of recorded sound." This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections.

Comments

Doh!

[Anonvmous Coward]

"This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections. "

Unfortunately, thanks to the recent copyright rulings, nobody will be able to hear or see this content until Fry comes out of cyrogenic sleep.

Re:Doh!

[geekee]

Huh. I'm sure they'll let one person at a time check out a copy of any copyrighted material. After all, they did buy the one copy. :-)

Re:Doh!

[ramdac]

Now that you mention it, you're probably right.
I get that exact notion from reading this report.

'...seeks to ensure even greater protection for some of the most notable songs, speeches and other utterances...'

Oh great. Protection. The U.S. Government defines protestion as "restriction" and "lawsuits" and "censorship". The sooner we as a nation realize that the government is trying to keep us ignorant of our past by withholding these documents, the sooner we'll be able to fight back against our government when she wrongs us. Sometimes I feel like the government is doing just that--Trying in some effort to make us forget how we *used* to run this government. They're making us forget just how much power the people had.

After all, Washington didn't even WANT to be president at first.

Re:Doh!

[Directrix1]

Do not engender your country. To engender something would be associating it with some form of humanity. Which is one thing most countries are most definetly not.

Re:Doh!

[deadsaijinx*]

Are you trying to be funny, cuz you made me laugh. People have always reffered to there country as a Motherland or the likes (definitely sounds engendered to me) ... well, except for the occasional Fatherland, but that's beside the point.

Re:Doh!

[ramdac]

haha! Yeah man. I was trying to be funny. It was inadvertant, but I was trying on different levels. She this...she that.

But anyway... I really did mean what I said.

Re:Doh!

[ramdac]

Can I quote you? Naw, honestly I think I refer to the US as being a "she" because I feel that we slap her around like a little bitch. It's time we started taking care of our country and even better--our world, because she's pretty tired too lately.

Re:Doh!

[ragnar]

I respect your distrust of government, but in this case let me assure that the meaning of "protection" is to protect these works of art from deteriorating. The copyright office in the Library of Congress acts to respect the law, of course, but if the master copies of films acidify, there is nothing left to protect.

For what it is worth, while selecting media formats for preserving audio and film an effort is made to avoid DRM because it can inhibit the ability to migrate the data to newer formats. The people working to convert analog recordings to digital archives are foremost interested in protecting the work from being lost forever. It can only sit on a shelf for so long and it is hoped that a digital, lossless copying method, will protect/preserve the artistic value.

(disclaimer: I work on this project at the Library of Congress)

Re:Doh!

[ramdac]

I don't disagree--surprising?

I think its a beautiful idea of converting this media into a digital form. I love it!

I just wish they could share it with us. You have no idea how nice it would be to listen to these recordings. I would *love* it.

Maybe the .GOV should think about selling it? They'd be making money and people would get what they want. Everyone happy?

Re:Doh!

[IronChef]

but if the master copies of films acidify, there is nothing left to protect.

Well, I think all copyright-fearing Americans will agree that it's better to let the material rot away than to let it be enjoyed improperly.

Re:Doh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad we won't include Martin Luther King. From what I understand, his family has all his speeches copyrighted and you must pay to hear them. I guess thats why I didn't hear it last week.

Personally I think we should all boycott the speech and holiday. No, I'm not a racist, but if he is to be considered a national hero, his speeches should be in the national archives, not a revenue stream.

Re:Doh!

[Directrix1]

Quote away :-P. But seriously now, do you really call our country a she because we slap her around like a little bitch? Or is it really because she bitches and threatens us about everything we do wrong :-P. Think about it. I sure did for about a half a second.

Re:Doh!

[Directrix1]

Sadly, I meant what I said too. But here are some good questions to keep you occupied: In the presence of free speech can we really ever be united? Why does our government try so hard to make everyone (read corporations) happy whenever all it does is impose limitations on everyone else? What is the meaning of life, when, for the large majority of people, life means nothing more than buying a bunch of DVDs and beer with their next paycheck and just existing? At what point did humanity become suicidal? Deep.

Re:Doh!

[ramdac]

That's deep alright. As deep as a well.

those are great questions ...really.

I wish I had answers for you...and me.

So....

[Anonymous Coward]

What format would they deliver it in? MP3? Would they use their own government MP3 encoder and pay license fees? Ogg? Wav? Real? Audio out to a big loud speaker that gets pointed to your house? What?

Re:So....

[NanoGator]

"What format would they deliver it in? MP3? Would they use their own government MP3 encoder and pay license fees? Ogg? Wav? Real? Audio out to a big loud speaker that gets pointed to your house? What? "

Well, they wanted to make sure that every computer they use can play it. So they're using Midi.

Re:So....

[Anonymous Coward]

And strangely enough, Reagan's last State of the Union address, when converted to midi, sounds a lot like the Peanuts theme.

Re:So....

[Anonymous Coward]

What format would they deliver it in? MP3? Would they use their own government MP3 encoder and pay license fees? Ogg? Wav? Real? Audio out to a big loud speaker that gets pointed to your house? What?

If they've got the space, raw PCM or FLAC

Re:So....

[Technician]

I've never listened to a speech with MIDI before. It sounds kinda fun as long as I don't have to use one of the cheap yamaha synth chips. Gotta go XG or better.

Re:So....

[Tet]

What format would they deliver it in? MP3?

One would hope not. Since the intent of this archive is to preserve sounds, throwing half of it away at the first hurdle by using a lossy compression algorithm doesn't seem like the way to go. So rather than MP3 or Ogg Vorbis, I'd suggest lossless formats like Shorten or FLAC. FLAC has the advantage of being completely free (beer and speech), both in terms of algorithm and implementation.

Oh dear

[Dark Lord Seth]

The RIAA is going to have a field day with this one...

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps they should be archieved with details of how the recording industry has a long history of exploiting artists. I'm sure the RIAA will gladly donate some funds to clear-up any misconceptions people may have about the industry they represent.

~tia

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

"The RIAA is going to have a field day with this one.."

Just think of all the small animals that will be harmed.

How long before...

[goatasaur]

...someone 'samples' this public-domain sound archive to make their own shitty techno music?

hitler_vs_truman---battlerap.mp3

Re:How long before...

[403Forbidden]

Just what I was thinking. What gives the Government the right to store copyrighted material all the sudden?

Bwa hahaa!

Re:How long before...

[len_harms]

The law does. copy right office see chapter 7 section 704. The goverment is also exempt in many cases from paying IP payments.

To get most of the extensions put forth in these laws you must submit a copy to them. Small price to pay for a 70+ year monopoly...

Its ironic that the goverment is basicly the biggest warez collector there is! Then tells the rest of us to get stuffed!?

Re:How long before...

[akb]

Why is this a problem? The public domain belongs to everyone, to make shitty things out of or not.

Any healthy conception of free speech includes a way to draw on one's history for things that others may judge shitty or otherwise.

Re:How long before...

[goatasaur]

"Why is this a problem? The public domain belongs to everyone, to make shitty things out of or not."

I never said it was a problem. It's just an extremely humorous situation to me. I am sure these recordings will be used in even wackier ways than I can foresee.

I just love human nature... *I* am tempted to make a shitty techno mix like the one I described in parent, and I know there must be other people out there who would do the same thing. It's a beautiful thought about human nature, in a way.

The value of crap?

[ObviousGuy]

So the vast majority of all music produced in the United States is crap. This isn't just about the Britneys and N'Syncs, it's about all music produced from the terrible free form Jazz pretenders in Louisiana to the horrendous grunge artists of the Pacific Northwest. There is such a dearth of good music, it makes a mind boggle.

So now the LOC is planning on preserving this crap for posterity. It's worth about the same as preserving the crap from my posterior.

Re:The value of crap?

[jcam2]

Like they say, 90% of everything is crap. However, the 10% of good stuff differs from person to person :-)

Obligatory Copyright Jab

[worst_name_ever]

Presumably the Library of Congress will only be preserving public-domain recordings, eh?

Re:Obligatory Copyright Jab

[geekee]

Ahh, no. Like any other library, they can buy their own copy of anything they want.

Re:Obligatory Copyright Jab

[Waffle Iron]

Ahh, no. Like any other library, they can buy their own copy of anything they want.

Bzzzt. As the guy one thread above pointed out, copyright law chapter 7 section 704 says:

(a) Upon their deposit in the Copyright Office under sections 407 and 408, all copies, phonorecords, and identifying material, including those deposited in connection with claims that have been refused registration, are the property of the United States Government.

(b) In the case of published works, all copies, phonorecords, and identifying material deposited are available to the Library of Congress for its collections, or for exchange or transfer to any other library. In the case of unpublished works, the Library is entitled, under regulations that the Register of Copyrights shall prescribe, to select any deposits for its collections or for transfer to the National Archives of the United States or to a Federal records center, as defined in section 2901 of title 44.

If you were congress and invented IP, you'd be a fool to saddle yourself with the restricions you're imposing on everyone else.

Re:Obligatory Copyright Jab

[jc42]

In the interviews that NPR has broadcast, some of the LoC people mentioned that they are worried about the likelyhood that they won't be able to distribute some things of historic importance, due to copyright problems.

Apparently the staff can study it and can share it with other libraries, but they may have to protect it from public access.

Combine this with the way that a lot of old recordings and movies are being lost through decay because the copyright owners see no profit in preserving them. The copyright laws are more and more having the effect of interfering with those "useful arts" that the Constitution says are to be furthered.

Question.

[Talinom]

Are they using Kazaa or e-Donkey 2000?

20th Century

[Anonymous Coward]

Once they reach the 20th century recordings things will grow eerily silent. All the shit we'll hate will have been used in everything from a soap commercial to a movie plot. The hard-to-find stuff however will just end up lost in some companies vault somewhere.

Yes but

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you express the storage required in Library of Congresses???

er...

how many bytes are in the library of congress?

[pcardoso]

so.. does this mean we have to change our reference unit for storage capacity?

Re:how many bytes are in the library of congress?

[fr2asbury]

Yes. When refering to this we'll have to say "CongressBytes."

Jonathan

And that�s why I still read slashdot ... ?

[drix]

"This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections."

+1, Insightful, anyone?

P2P

[Avsen]

Or they could just put it on Kazaa. Less chance of records being lost if its on a lot of computers.

Re:P2P

[pyite]

This poses an interesting thought in my mind. Now, people aren't going to download files they won't want to host. However, a viable P2P business could be created with MP3 license fees being paid for by corporations who pay for distributed storage. Basically, your P2P archive would be a big data archive of some sort and you could export data you have privileges to. Your total download "credits" would be determined by how much other data, or parity data for that matter, you choose to host.

Re:P2P

[mrtorrent]

> However, a viable P2P business could be created with MP3 license fees being paid for by corporations who pay for distributed storage. Basically, your P2P archive would be a big data archive of some sort and you could export data you have privileges to.
---
Interesting idea, but a few big problems:
1) It's unreliable storage, even despite its redundancy. Unreliable in terms of it staying intact (hard drives get reformatted, things get accidently deleted, etc.) and in terms of connectivity (people disconnect from the internet, have network troubles, etc.).
2) If the encryption of the privilege system is broken, quite a few people will have access to the data, a possibility which means that no company will be interested in storing any relevant information via distributed storage.
3) Hard drives are pretty cheap nowadays.

The only way I could see this possibly being used is by NASA or some organization that has something on the order of a few terabytes of data and figures that it might as well make it as reduntant as possible, for posterity and interested parties, and all that jazz (speaking of which, go see the movie version of Chicago if you haven't yet, it turned out great).

Re:P2P

[cgenman]

Wow, that's actually a good idea... Have some sort of secure P2P network, like the pay version of Kazaa, with MP3's approved to be on the system. If you don't want to pay for music, you have to serve out to 5 other MP3s you have for each one you download. The MP3's cost 10 cents to download each, the cost of which is split 9c to musicians / producers / creators and 1c to the Kazaa hydra. As wired (I believe) estimated the bandwidth cost of an MP3 download to be 3c, and bands (who ultimately pay the production cost of the albums anyway) are lucky to see 50c per album, this would make more money all around. Even the freeloaders downloading MP3's would make up for it by providing a valuable service to the industry, and making them money. This would encourage people who wanted free music to spend more money, get more and more variety of music, and serve more to the community, at which point the cost drops significantly: in short, encouraging more than 10% of the population to share, and more than 1% of the population to supernode. Everyone gets paid, a real, honest distribution system exists... if we can convince enough artists to join in the system, and can overcome a few technical hurdles (along with aggregate billing), we'll be happy, productive, musical, and profitable to the tune of 7c per download. You could even return to the highly efficient Napster network model, as you wouldn't be at risk of being litigated out of existence.

...Nah. Let's go feed the dinosaurs. "Here Here are your teeth, Mr. Bertelsmann. Oh look, you are chewing so well today!"

- C

Re:P2P

[pyite]

I agree with points one and three. However, I think point two is rather moot. We have encryption systems that cannot be realistically broken without quantum computing (Triple-DES, and even better, AES). Combine that with a lot of the data would be parity data for redundancy, no one would have a clue what they are storing.

Re:P2P

[deadsaijinx*]

okay, a few problems bot not too bad of an idea:

1. i can already get the files i want without paying even one cent, so what incentive do i have.
2. the music industry is still profitable, so music will still be produced so what incentive do i have to pay. it will exist even if i dont.
3. the music industry doesnt see that as very profitable. thats why they charge $20 a cd. about 100years ago, Henry Ford leared that making a small amount of profit on a large amount products equals a helluvalot more cash than lots of prof on little prod. It seems that the music industry is a bit behind the times.
4. Leechers - i hate - you hate them - they dont want to share songs in order to get songs. personally, i share well over 1,000 files and wish others would open up their bandwidth and files, but thats a discussion for another day. really, leechers are the people who most use p2p anywho so this idea of share and share alike doesnt work out too well...

and on that note i was dling a file off of someone on kazaa with the username of "theonlypersonsharing" ... wow, i know that feeling.

Re:P2P

[cgenman]

1. The incentive is to do the right thing. There are still a lot of people out there who believe stealing music is at its heart wrong. I know I do, and I think most Kazaa people do too. But I also think that we do this to protest the current state of the music industry. All of the musicians I know still charge for their music, yet except for one, they all have put their own files on a P2P network.

2. According to RIAA figures, only 1 in 10 bands it has hand-signed and selected is profitable. What they forget to mention, leaving you to connect the dots yourself, is that "profitable" means that they made money above and beyond recoupable costs. The Distributing companies wind up eating some costs, but so far the band has made *nothing at all.* Under such circumstances, it would be a lot better to make 50c per album straight than nothing at all. Perhaps we should sell album downloads at 1.00 each, just to make sure the rate is higher than the industry's payout for extremely successful acts?

3. The recording companies are very profitable. The artists are not. There are a lot of artists out there, which loweres their bargining position, but they are the ones who actually make music. The recording companies sell acts: they have no capacity to make music. You don't really need them to get onboard... if I could find DJ Entropy on a paid Kazaa system, why would I want the latest scruffy guitar punk ripoff band?* It would be good for selection to have labels onboard, but it would also be great for quality to have just indies.

Of course, Entropy gives away his albums on his home page, which is one of many reasons why I go out of my way to pay to see him live.

4. This system would give leechers a choice: you can be free or you can be a leech, but you can't be both. I think this choice will satisfy most people. And while it may drive away some of the leeches... isn't that the point? Doesn't that make your network all the better to be a part of?

Anyway, I think this could really work. The only downside I can see is having more sharers than downloaders, as I tend to think that more people would rather have free music legally while uploading than pay to legally download music while leeching. Of course, many of these people don't have jobs and / or credit cards, so I don't fault them.

More ideas?

*This is not to rile against scruffy guitar punk ripoff bands... this is to rile against the scruffy guitar punk ripoff bands who have carefully manicured holes cut in CK shirts and who have an equally manicured sound to appeal to this generation youth extremism with the previous generation of musical voice knockoff.

Mickey Hart and Save Our Sounds

[pyite]

Mickey Hart of Grateful Dead fame has had a big part in this effort. It's a real noble movement they're participating in. Everyone thinks history is always written and suddenly people realized that we have the technology to make it more. Read more about his involvement and Save our Sounds here.

What about the sounds no one is around to hear?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or do they not even exist?

Predicted Future Searches....

[blackmonday]

"moaning", "huffing and puffing", "orgasms", "farting", etc...

Off-site backup?

[kwoo]

It's obviously a good idea to fortify the storage site, but what kind of arrangements will they have for off-site backup?

If these are the most important recordings, it would be a tragic loss to have a natural disaster or similar event destroy what may be the only complete recordings.

Re:Off-site backup?

[Anonymous Coward]

"... To that end, the library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain in Culpeper, Virginia..." It's built into a mountian. And it's availible to the public. What more do you want?

Re:Off-site backup?

[kwoo]

"... To that end, the library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain in Culpeper, Virginia..." It's built into a mountian. And it's availible to the public. What more do you want?

Moving the originals does not constitute backing them up to some medium and making sure the backups are useful in the event of the destruction of the originals. Hence the term "backup".

Re:Off-site backup?

[ragnar]

The facility is a former military building which is built into the side of a small mountain (more of a hill if you ask me). The first layer of protection is pretty good. It is referred to as a digital vault of sorts.

At this stage of the planning there isn't a much concrete discussion about backup, not because it won't be needed, but rather because the technology is a moving target. If memory serves right, they hope to open the facility in about 3 years. Backups are no doubt on the integration plan, but a lot of the architecture is still in a planning phase.

(disclaimer: I work on this project at the Library of Congress)

Re:Off-site backup?

[kwoo]

At this stage of the planning there isn't a much concrete discussion about backup, not because it won't be needed, but rather because the technology is a moving target. If memory serves right, they hope to open the facility in about 3 years. Backups are no doubt on the integration plan, but a lot of the architecture is still in a planning phase.

That much is definitely true. Thank you for the reply!

Re:Off-site backup?

[jc42]

Hey, I'd be happy to back some of it up on my hard drives. With apache and kazaa servers running, they can get anything quickly anytime they need it. I'm sure that there are lots of others who would volunteer a couple of GB to the effort.

Re:Off-site backup?

[vrmlguy]

I'm curious about how the files are organized. EMC has an interesting product supporting "Content Addressed Storage" (not to be confused with content addressable memory, for you CS geeks). The idea is that you store so-called static content (image, audio, video, etc) and you get back a ticket, which is a cryptographic signature. To retreive the content, you present the ticket. You can then re-compute the signature yourself to ensure that no one's changed the file when you weren't looking. (For example, another poster inquired about editing cat-calls from presidential speeches. This would make it obvious if that were to happen.)

(disclaimer: I work for EMC. In spite of that, I would love to see an open-source implementation of the APIs, as it would encourage greater adoption of the technology, and I feel that my employer could do quite well providing high-performance solutions for high-end users. Here is a review of the technology.)

Re:Off-site backup?

[ragnar]

I don't know specifics, but I wouldn't be surprised if EMC wasn't on the discussion table. Currently we use an MD5 hash to maintain integrity, but as we all know even that relies on the integrity of the person who works with the file prior to hashing. ;) We sometimes joke about preserving our voices or self-images for all posterity, but in reality no one would do it.

Thanks for making the suggestion. I don't personally have any decision making power in this (I'm just developing software for metadata capture) but I'm glad people find it interesting.

Re:Off-site backup?

[carlos_benj]

The quote is that "the collection" is moving. Is this the old analog recordings, the digital copies or both?

I saw something on the tube about this project and the deterioration of some of the media was pretty bad with much of the poorer quality stuff being hand carried rather than being carted around in boxes. Is the attempt to get as much of the marginal stuff digitized before the move as possible or is there a real push on getting the archives relocated?

Re:Off-site backup?

[ragnar]

The plan is to move the physical copies and house the digital renditions in the Culpepper VA facility. Unfortunately some of the material is reaching its shelf life, so it is a race against time. I'm encouraged by a legion of people who are diligently doing their best to preserve this part of our heritage. The facility itself uses climate control to further protect the works from the forces of time.

Re:Off-site backup?

[vrmlguy]

(A) EMC provided support to Steven Spielberg's Shoah project, preserving recordings of Holocast survivors, so we'd probably be interested in this. Biggest question is how much EMC could afford, since they were as hard hit as anyone when the market collapsed.

(B)Regarding preserving your own voices and/or self-images, check out this and this.

the recording.

[Joe the Lesser]

'The Library of Congress has been collecting recordings for almost 100 years, the first being a recording of a speech by German Emperor Wilhelm II.'

The speech apparently went as follows:
Emperor: My dog has no nose.
Crowd: 'How does it smell'?
Emperor: Awful.

Re:the recording.

[torpor]

shit that i can't find this right now, i'd actually be quite interested in hearing that speech.

not to mention any details on how it was recorded.

off /. to google ...

Re:the recording.

[Absurd Being]

The reply.

Two peanuts were walking down the sidewalk. One of them was assaulted.

peanut.

Re:the recording.

[Pxtl]

He's referring to Monty Python joke where they explain how the Brits won world war 2 by developing a joke so funny it killed people. In response, the Germans tried to develop a similar joke. To illustrate this, they had stock footage of Hitler delivering a speech with the "my dog's got no nose" joke written as the subtitles. Just in case you were confused and thought he was serious.

Re:the recording.

[Anonymous Coward]

Meinen Hund hat keine Nase!

Re:the recording.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try, but wrong pronoun.

DOH!

[QEDog]

I hope they include one of the most memorable characters in American History, as well as the phrase that made him famous.

Homer: DOH!

I'm sure the future generations will value this sound sample. Maybe they should keep many different versions of 'DOH!' since:

" a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections. "

They can use MAS

[MongooseCN]

They can use MAS to serve the info. (It's a new open source project worth checking out. They just made their first release.)

Not that valuable

[Black Copter Control]

Not much use to having this stuff in archive, if it's all going to be copyright in the next 10 years...

But do they have . .

[GMontag]

The REAL french national anthem?

Caution: MP3

Sounds from America

[Anonymous Coward]

-Quick, save the queen!
-Which one of us is the queen?
-I'm the queen!
-No you're not!


Boy, we're something to be reckoned with, eh? Bunch of morons skilled at memorizing televison. Better watch out for us!

More audio archival...

[Wakko Warner]

If you're into live music, archive.org has been amassing an enormous collection of live concerts in SHN (and FLAC) format for about 6 months now. If you're bored at work (or home) and have a ton of bandwidth, go here.

- A.P.

Re:More audio archival...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice idea. Shame that it's nothing but an endless sea of crappy jam bands..

Re:More audio archival...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they're having a hard time getting approval for your favorite Britney Spears and NSync shows. In the meantime, people will have to listen to actual music played, composed, and sung by actual musicians. A shame indeed.

NPR All Things Considered this afternoon

[yet another coward]

I heard a piece, including some sound clips, this afternoon on ATC. The story and a few selections are here. It is an excellent project. The copyright limitations are disappointing, however.

Mount Pony, Culpeper, VA

[sulli]

This site is a former bunker for the Federal Reserve Board and once held $1 billion in cash in case of a nuclear attack. It was transferred to the LoC in 1997. (Presumably this cash is now held elsewhere.)

Re:Mount Pony, Culpeper, VA

[Mezzrow]

Thats really interesting.
It makes me wonder what the actual post-nuclear plan was. They're storing 1 Billion in 'Currency' to restart the American economy after a nuclear war.

Seems to imply they were thinking ahead far enough to realize that in a post-war world, it wouldn't be easy to print the cash, but doesn't really get that if everything were destroyed, a billion in cash would be pretty useless.

Unless, of course, they were storing 1 billion in rubles.

It would be interesting to see that 'restart the economy' plan. We could use one.

Re:Mount Pony, Culpeper, VA

[MrWa]

$1 billion in cash in case of a nuclear attack

How useful would cash be in the event of a nuclear attack?!?! Now if they had been hording gold, some secret anti-radiation devices reverse engineered from alien technology, or Spam and Twinkies I could understand - cash would be the LAST thing I would take from some after a nuclear attack!

Re:Mount Pony, Culpeper, VA

[ShadowDrake]

They built an anti-radiation shield out of all those unspent Susan B. Anthony dollars.

Re:Mount Pony, Culpeper, VA

[commodoresloat]

(Presumably this cash is now held elsewhere.)

Bush: Hey Greenspan, what ever happened to that cash we were storing on the side of a mountain somewhere?

Greenspan: Hmmmm... (checking pockets) .... sorry, Sir, I guess I must have left it in my other pants.

Old music

[Anonymous Coward]

Coincidentally, I was reading an article that mentioned that current orchestras use different notations than what many composers used. Consequently, the music we hear today may not have been what Beethoven or Mozart intended. As anyone who's read an email knows, the meaning of a spoken word is often radically different than the written one. Many a flame war has started because someone forgot a smiley.

Re:Old music

[Emmettfish]

Consequently, the music we hear today may not have been what Beethoven or Mozart intended.

And it doesn't end there. A modern violin does not sound like a violin that Mozart composed for. Why? Difference in materials in making one, and more importantly (even when you're dealing with Mozart-old violins) modern synthetics used in string making.

This is a bit of a hellaciously huge argument in the opera community, who strive to get recordings of pieces the way a composer intended. There's also a lot of little changes; The meaning of 'allegro' has changed over the years, as well as the 'note to tune by,' currently A 440.

Emmett Plant
CEO, Xiph.org Foundation

Re:Old music

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't it suck if great portions of the Twentieth and Twenty-First century's audio legacy were made unavailable to future generations because of proprietary formats? Our history would be almost as badly off as some ancient, no-longer-spoken language.

But I guess you already knew this: Xiph.org :)

Re:Old music

[Lodragandraoidh]

The reality is Beethoven and Mozart were making it up as they went as well. So what? They are no different than us (save for the powdered wigs).

Every performance is unique, then and now. There is no way to perform an identical rendition of an ancient performance, and who would want to - with all the consumptives caughing in the orchestra. Not to mention all the rats running around.

They should....

[ZoneGray]

They should just buy the remains of Napster. Then it remain in circulation forever.

The problem is

[aengblom]

"This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections."

The problem is. . . then it becomes priceless. (Which for anyone not paying attention--we can't afford :( )

Recording Equipment - Record to CF card?

[QuietRiot]

Anyone know of any small, portable, digital recorders availible that can grab high-quality audio to a CF card?

Some kind of hybrid between those little digital recorders with shitty (or none at all) interfaces to a computer and a MiniDisc recorder. Something smaller than a MiniDisc would be better. Like an MP3 player, but a recorder - that will record either straight to a ".wav like format", or ogg or whatever - selectable bitrate, clean audio. Stereo. Small.

Anyone, anyone??

Re:Recording Equipment - Record to CF card?

[Anonymous Coward]

Any Windows CE device can do this.

An excellent way to preserve

[NetDrain]

What better way to preserve priceless recordings than by making them available to the public? If they allow private citizens to download copies for their own use, should anything happen to the originals there would still be countless digital copies available.

I've always enjoyed collecting and listening to historical speeches and old radio broadcasts (HG Wells' _War of the Worlds_, for instance). This would be excellent.

Re:An excellent way to preserve

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of this stuff is already online. My students found Historical Voices at http://www.historicalvoices.org. It looks like some sort of cooperation between Michigan State Univ. and the Lib. of Congress? ANyway, good stuff already online and more apparently coming soon.

What it used to be

[Alegato]

I live near and work even closer to this very interesting facility. It used to be the Federal Reserve System's Communications and Research Center (a pretty important part of the Federal Reserve System), and it also served as an emergency "continuity of government facility" at one time. Check these links for your browsing pleasure (links have pictures, Google search "Culpeper Federal Reserve" gives lots of info)

Link1

Link2

Link3

Re:What it used to be

[Alegato]

heh, I can't post fast enough... someone beat me to submitting this. Looks like I duped Link3.

Even better protection

[elronxenu]

The Internet has shown that the best way to protect a work is to release it on the Net and allow it to be downloaded, duplicated, mirrored etc. etc.

Locking those recordings in a big mountain-side vault, or putting them on a computer in a building I'll never visit, is not "making them available".

Digitalize it !

[glMatrixMode]

Store recordings in a fortress, and you'll preserve them for 100 years.
Digitalize and upload them, and they'll live as long as you have a running server.

Besides, a recording is more useful on the net than in a mountain.

Re:Digitalize it !

[kaaphi]

They're in the process of doing this right now. It's a joint project between the smithsonian and the library of congress called Save our Sounds. They have a webpage here.

Re:Digitalize it !

[Requiem]

Which is, uh, considerably less than 100 years.

Dispatches from the Future

[Tackhead]

> To that end, the library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain in Culpeper, Virginia. When construction on the site is completed - in about three years - anything stored in Culpeper should be available via computer at the library's Madison Building on Capitol Hill.

January 27, 2006 - President Stallman and Gnu/FBI announce arrest and detention of terrorist group believed affiliated with Hilary Rosen

Giving public thanks to the constant vigilance on the part of tens of thousands of GNUTIA (Gnu's Not Total Information Awareness) server operators, President Stallman announced the disruption of a terrorist plot, allegedly involving weapons of mass destruction and notorious fugitive from justice, Hilary Rosen.

In his 2006 State of the Onion Speech, President Stallman announced:

"Since her departure from RIAA in 2003, Ms. Rosen and her band of followers have become increasingly militant in their outlook, and increasingly violent in their activities against anyone listening to audio recordings without payment of ransom to members of the RIAA cartel.

Starting with the KazaaSlammer worm attack of 2004, and then escalating to physical violence with the attempted truck bombing attempts against our allies in Vanatu in 2005, we knew the completion of the Culpeper complex would be a target of significant terrorist activity from the more extreme elements of the recording industry.

In December 2005, GNH (Gnu's Not HomeSec) officials working under auspices of GNUTIA, became aware that individuals affiliated with Ms. Rosen had attempted, or were attempting, to acquire weapons of mass destruction from deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, and that they intended to use such weapons against the 41-acre complex of rare recordings at Culpeper. I am pleased to announce today that these plans have been foiled...

...and it's still called GNU/Linux, and that that law was passed for a damn good reason, no matter what the First Amendment or the Supreme Court says. God Bless America."

Responding after the President's remarks, Mr. Fritz Hollings, (appointed RIAA head after losing his seat in the GNU/Linux electoral victory of 2004), had this to say:

"Although we in RIAA have always disassociated ourselves from the actions against music listeners associated with certain more radical elements of our industry, but this ought to serve as a warning to the current administration that the longer the American people continue to listen to music without payment of protection money to RIAA, the more likely it is that such desperate acts will continue.

The occupation of Culpeper and the opening of public access to these recordings is nothing but a slap in the face to those of us so brutally oppressed. Out of cultural respect to us, we remind you of the root cause of terrorism - your failure to pay royalties to us whenever you even think about music.

What happened to Ms. Rosen after her departure from RIAA is a tragedy. Please - pay us lots of money, and help break the cycle of violence."

Re:Dispatches from the Future

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish there was a +6. That is the funniest fucking thing I have read in a long time.

Will they include

[The Bungi]

sound bites of Dan Quayle's fuck-ups?

I mean - you cannot deny the man's contributions! <snort/>

"that will be famous someday"

[Stalcair]

most would associate that phrase with a signature or even photo of someone when a kid (or just not when they are famous). With some it comes true and can provide an interesting insight into the human behind the celebrity.

With that serious sounding intro in mind, I ask you to ponder this. My brother and I (on more than one occasion) thought it the highlight of humor to record the sound of our farting (and background laughter). It even on occasion became "necessary" to attempt a recording of taking a dump... oh the years of stupidity. So I have to ask myself if the next Nobel prize winner, victorious General or the person who eventually steps foot upon another planet will still have such memorabilia lying around in some format for future generations to laugh at. Come to think of it, I still find that very amusing and so I will dub myself still just as crass and stupid.

Re:"that will be famous someday"

[nursedave]

You know, if I ever become famous or infamous or something, I'm gonna be really pissed off if all these /.'ers pull up this message and point out how I used to record my own BM's.... That and calling the dog on tape, then hiding the tape recorder and pestering the poor dumb mutt..... Ah, well.

two meanings of the word 'protected'

[tato (and tato only)]

It is interesting that when the Library of Congress uses the word 'protected' in regards to a sound recording they mean exactly the opposite of what the RIAA means when they use the same word.
I like the LOC's meaning better.

Crap american music?

[Compact Dick]

Oh you mean like Queensrÿche, Dream Theater, Dokken, Metallica^Wsorry, Megadeth and so on?

Creating digital sound files

[sakeneko]

I'd like to see a volunteer group turn this historical treasure trove into digital sound files and put them on DVD or optical media for safekeeping. Many of the recordings are on magnetic tape or other media that deteriorate over time, sometimes quickly.

The expensive part would be getting access to the necessary equipment to play the original recordings. Lots of geeks have DVD burners.

Re:Creating digital sound files

[akb]

Maybe you should talk to these people. They've got 30TB of copyright clear music and have as their goal "universal access to human knowledge".

Re:Creating digital sound files

[akb]

Sorry no 30TB of music, its 30TB of copyright clear material.

Re:Creating digital sound files

[ragnar]

I think that is precisely the notion of the project, to digitize and preserve these media for long term storage. The biggest challenge (for those of us working on it) is how to choose a media that is transferable and will last. That said, part of the strategy is to encode different levels of quality (Master, Service High and Service Low). This may range from a 96kHz x 24bit WAV to a 256kbs mp3.

It helps a little to understand the raw size of some of this stuff though. For example, a 14 minute audio recording at 96kHz and 24 bits takes up a little over 800mb. DVD storage is simply too small. Most likely the storage will be a massive NAS on the order of which has never been built before.

The article doesn't talk about it, but part of the whole digitization process is the capture of metadata. Catalogers at the Library enter descriptive metadata about the films, recordings and whatnot according to the METS XML standard. Although it would be great to get some volunteer help, the rules for cataloging are arcane and confusing at best. ;) I say this with awe and respect for co-workers who do a great job at it.

(disclaimer: I am a member of the Library team who develops software for the project)

The real thing?

[gokubi]

Too bad 15 acres of that is going to be taken up with Coke jingles.

Re:The real thing?

[commodoresloat]

Interesting. I wonder if they are giving the company's older ads to the LoC too, or if they are quietly burying them? Someone I know did research in the Coca-Cola archive for a documentary; apparently they are extremely careful about what they let anyone access and they are pretty hush-hush about their history. Everyone knows it used to have cocaine in it until about 1903; what's funny is it used to be an alcoholic beverage that was mixed with cocaine, which was apparently advertised as a "feel-good" drink, something that got you high. This changed in response to the temperance movement, and they took the alcohol out, left the cocaine in, added gotu kola, and billed it as a "temperance drink." Of course, you won't see this in any documentaries about Coke.... I don't imagine they'll be donating many ads from that period to the LoC, either.

Presidential speeches?

[MrEd]

I wonder if they'll dub out all the booing and catcalling during W. Bush's speeches in the immediate aftermath of the Enron scandal? They removed them in the typewritten transcripts, as well as corrected some of his more shameful grammar and pronunciation. Re-writing history, without even waiting more than a few minutes! Wow.

I apologise for not providing a link as I'm at work right now and can't post long. Maybe some other kind reader will?

Re:Presidential speeches?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can they go back and edit the recordings to make it seem like Clinton knows the definition of "is"?

Re:Presidential speeches?

[evilmrhenry]

Link?

Washington Post

Re:Presidential speeches?

[cornflux]

wish I had mod points today. damn, damn, damn. good post.

Re:Presidential speeches?

[Anonymous Coward]

ok come on now. if there's one thing clinton was, he was a hell of a public speaker. Can't say the same for W.

Re:Presidential speeches?

[commodoresloat]

They also tried to change the transcript when Ari Fleisher said Americans better "watch what they say."

Re:Presidential speeches?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman... she may have sucked,but she didn't swallow.".

How about a massive swarm app?

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be interesting if the LoC were to work in conjunction with a company/group to develop an open source swarm-based P2P client so the entire library could be instantly digitized, easily distributed, and any computer capable of viewing/playing the content could do so, whether a simple MP3 playing app for older computers, or full-blown MPEG-2 support for the high-quality multimedia content.

If DoD and DoE can spend millions of dollars on a supercomputer, then developing and storing the LoC materials in a permanent swarm net would perhaps be one of the great American institutions online, for all to share freely.

Re:How about a massive swarm app?

[akb]

Take a look at the Internet Archive. They have terabytes of copyright clear material including mpeg2 public domain video and lossless audio. They are experimenting with 3 different p2p systems with their audio collection.

what if

[SHEENmaster]

it isn't returned, and the company is no longer around to sell it?

Is it illegal to reverse engineer magnetic tape?

Toll for Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

since you didn't even bother to make it appear you were aiming simply at any politician (or including how this happened with Bill Clinton, the last president) then I guess you are just bored and trolling... or you really are that much of a hypocritical idiot monkey that learned how to type.

I am just damn glad that the liberals are all finally admitting that people with speech problems of any sort or just anyone who is not an expert linguist is stupid and not as good a leader based on that "stupidity." I always knew that foreigners with accents were stupid and I also knew that people born with no ability to talk were trully "DUMB." Horray! Me and all my elitist comrades can sneer even more!

Re:Toll for Troll

[MrEd]

Nice troll. The core of my post was that the crowd booing, interruptions, and catcalling were removed in transcripts, yet, "audience applauds" were left in. I'm sure that previous presidents have had similar revisionist recordings, but none ever needed them more than W.

Re: me making fun of people with speech impediments (or people who aren't cunning linguists, as you say), the man is the President of the United States of America. Since his job is basically to look good on camera and read speeches, it would be less embarassing if he could do it properly. Heh.

Re:Toll for Troll

[Afty0r]

After spending a lifetime learning how to make public speaches, converse and articulate, probably costing a not inconsiderable amount of cash for voice and public speaking coaches, one would hope the most powerful man in the world, the one that 300 million americans felt was best to lead them, would at least be able to speak competently, if not brilliantly.

Try listening to or reading speeches by Winston Churchill - that is how a leader should speak.

Re:Toll for Troll

[carlos_benj]

Try listening to or reading speeches by Winston Churchill - that is how a leader should speak.

But when's the last time we had a candidate who was able to speak anywhere near that well?

Churchill, by the way, was not a gifted speaker. He spent hours rehearsing his delivery before speaking.

Re:Toll for Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

Churchill, by the way, was not a gifted speaker. He spent hours rehearsing his delivery before speaking.

No kidding. While we're at it, I think Yo Yo Ma is a lousy cellist. I mean, he's had to spend YEARS practicing his instrument, most of his life in fact, and for some reason everyone thinks he's so gifted.

Idiot.

Re:Toll for Troll

[carlos_benj]

Comparing the use of the human voice for speech is not the same as comparing ability with any given instrument. Most people can speak and can do so in such a way that they can communicate effectively if not always eloquently. If everyone played the cello you might have a point.

Re:Toll for Troll

[ivan256]

but none ever needed them more than W.

Nice troll.

Seriously, there have been lots of presidents who have done unpopular things, and have been booed louder and longer than George W. has been. It just seems to you like nobody's ever needed it more than George W. because he's in the spotlight right now, and the booing that was edited out of past president's speeches has been long forgotten.

If you're going to short change history, don't do it while you're bitching about history being short changed.

Re:Toll for Troll

[MrEd]

there have been lots of presidents who have done unpopular things, and have been booed louder and longer than George W. has been

I wasn't talking about his popularity.

Re:Toll for Troll

[ImaLamer]

If everyone played the cello you might have a point.

If everyone did public speaking (two, three speeches a day that is) you would have a point.

Public speaking is a skill, if it wasn't then we'd all run for some crap-ass office. Speaking and grace make you a good politician... look at JFK, heck look at Cleopatra. The world loved her, her grace, her ability to speak Greek, Latin and other languages! It wasn't just her looks.

Re:Toll for Troll

[carlos_benj]

There are people who make a living from public speaking that don't give two or three speeches a day..... I have heard excellent public speakers who speak maybe three times a week as part of their duties and they don't repeatedly rehearse what they're going to say because of time constraints.

Some speakers have excellent delivery because they give the same speech repeatedly, others have to come up with new material each time. Some are good because they have honed the skills through repetition and others can give a stirring presentation extemporaneously.

Back to the music analogy: Some people can play a piece with technical precision and it can be enjoyable to the listener on a given level and appreciated for the performance's excellence. Others could play the same piece and infuse it with emotion and life that didn't exist in the technically excellent performance. Both were examples of excellence, but on two different levels.

Archive candidates - not!

[hdparm]

I just hope that f(ree)s(oftware)s(ong) and s(teve)b(almer)s(ong) won't be included.

but only Dan's

[Anonymous Coward]

We will ignore all of Gore's.

It already is!

[Eric_Cartman_South_P]

;)

Hmmmmmm.... this is interesting

[sickboy_macosX]

The library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain

Sounds like the federal government is taking lessons from the mormon church in Salt Lake City. (All of the Mormon Church Geneology records are entoumbed in a Mountain in Big Cotton Wood Canyon in Salt Lake City, and up by McCall Idaho. They do it because of the fact that if the Apocolypse ever happens there are records.

The government must know somthing we dont...

Nah, PC speaker.

[antdude]

PC Speaker. :)

why isnt all this info available on the net?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, if tax payers are keeping it up and running, why should it only be available to computers in that one building? why not to all people on the internet?

A Matter of Life and Death

[mccalli]

Sorry, bit of a tangent. This subject header reminded me of one of my favourite films, A Matter of Life and Death.

Trying not to ruin the film - at one point a trial takes place with an American prosecuter from the War of Independence versus a British doctor defender from World War II. The prosecutor argues that no American could possibly live in Britain, and to prove it he produces a radio on which the most boring cricket commentary known to man is playing, which he declares to be "The Voice of England". The Briton's defence? He produces a radio playing 40s American Blues, "Sho shoooo, baby", which he declares to be "The Voice of America". The prosecuter looks downcast and confesses he doesn't understand a word of it, to which the Briton replies neither does he.

Ah well, perhaps you have to see things in order for it to be funny. But if you're interested, I wholeheartedly recommand A Matter of Life and Death to anyone that's a fan of quality filmaking

Cheers,
Ian

British Pathe has digitized their old newsreels

[bobbv]

British Pathe has digitized and made public a huge quantity of their newsreels online, starting with the 1890s and going to 1970. Watch nearly a century of riots, wars and cheezy human interest stories on pretty much every topic. Type in "computer" and see the history of computers, as told in short chunks with dramatic voiceover.

Ironic

[retro128]

Federal law requires that any copyrighted sound must be stored at the library.

Is this the same government who has been busy giving god-like status to content creators? I can just see somebody suing the LoC to keep their content away from eyes/ears who aren't paying for it. But of course, they may let it slide if they put DRM on the content. Maybe. If they're in a good mood. Oh, but wait....

"We have every format you can imagine and every problem with every format," said Michael Taft, who helps run the program. "What we have to do is find a way of taking sound off of all of these different media and storing them as computer files in such a way that they will be readable and accessible not just today, but 100, 200 years from now."

"I'm sorry sir, but that part of history has been lost due to money grubbing companies who revoked our playback key (or they went out of business, the timed key is lost because it can no longer be renewed, and nobody knows what format the file is stored in), and the guy who tried to crack the file is currently serving a 500 year prison term for attempted circumvention. Have a nice day!"

Yes, and excellent example of...

[monomania]

This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections.

Yes, this is an excellent example of the theory that information becomes more valuable the more it is disseminated, and more people discover it, and find value in it. Well said.

Also on the History Channel

[sakusha]

About a week or two ago, I saw a documentary on The History Channel about this exact project. I was rather surprised to see them digitizing audio on Win95 workstations with a few primitive apps. These guys seriously need technological help. But the real focus here is on analog. I cringed as I saw historic reel-to-reel tapes shred when played, I was even more appalled when I saw vinyl-on-aluminum records that the vinyl popped off when he took it out of the sleeve. He said "oops, this album is ruined." They discard damaged vinyl like that, but I think they're screwing up. There are already laser scanners that can read the grooves optically, all you have to do is keep ALL the pieces and put them on a backing in the correct position, the laser will scan off the grooves and you can edit out the pops in postproduction.
But ultimately this is the same old conservation issue. Do you try to capture the deteriorating tapes and records NOW, or do you let them deteriorate further in hopes that a miracle solution will appear before they are completely destroyed? There is no good answer.

Re:Also on the History Channel

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out some of the research in a cooperating project at Historical Voices.

Re:Also on the History Channel

[Splat]

I assume your referring to the "Save our Sounds" documentary, which I also watched (Thanks Tivo!).

Good observation on the vinyl... these guys - http://www.elpj.com/ - make a Laser Turntable which I agree would probably be a much much better way to record some of the more brittle recorders.

I don't think they're screwing up though. Everyone interviewed seemed like they cared a lot about what they do and respected the job they've been assigned. That one guy was doing some amazing shit with the wax cylinders.

I highly suggest everyone watch this special if it comes back on TV Anytime soon. On Tivo I found it under "Save our Sounds" in the Special Delivery section of TivoLution magazine.

Re:Also on the History Channel

[sakusha]

I just meant they're screwing up when they toss out ANYTHING. You never know what kind of technology will come up, like the laser scanners. But they're just tossing out the damaged disks. And I worried when I heard at what a low data rate they're recording the preservation tracks. Come on, in the future nobody will want 96k mp3s, they'll want much higher uncompressed data rates, to suck every bit of nuance out of the old data, because the originals will be long gone. But I suppose that's the best they can do with win98 computers for digitizing.

Re:Also on the History Channel

[Splat]

96k mp3? What show were you watching? I specifically remember them saving them in "uncompressed format" at either 44khz or 96khz in RAW Wav.

I wish people would stop knocking windows for this application to. You're simply recording RAW WAVs. You don't need a damn linux workstation to do this (sure it might be a bit more stable).

For anyone who missed the show, the basic mission protocol these guys were following is:

Capture the brittlest/most endanger recordings (those that are in danger of falling apart).
Capture these unaltered, via Turntable/wax cylinder/whatever and pipe into a computer and save as a WAV.
No DSP processing, no noise reduction.

The only piece of vinyl I remember them throwing out on that show was one where the guy took it out of the envelope and the aceate layer had completely fallen off the platter of the LP. I don't care what kind of technology gets introduced, there's no way you're going to restore paper-thin aceate material so brittle it falls apart when you even touch it.

So now that we're both finished sharing our differing recollections of the show, you at leasst liked the show right? I did!

Re:Also on the History Channel

[sakusha]

Yeah, I liked the show, in fact, a previous History Channel show on this subject (about 4 or 5 years ago) got me interested in digitizing my own vinyl records.
But those acetate on aluminum disks CAN be saved. Laser scanners were invented specifically for recording broken albums. Just because it's lost its substrate, doesn't mean you can't lay it down flat on a new one, even temporarily for a reference recording. Even in totally fragmented condition, it's savable, perhaps with future technology. The very first paper I ever read about Computers in art was an IBM paper about using computers to collect and reassemble broken pieces of ancient frescoes, from different museums across the world. And this was in 1964!
Yes, that acetate disk was the only thing I saw them discard unnecessarily, but recall that some of the tapes they were digizing were destroyed in the process, so ultimately a LOT of stuff is being destroyed in order to save it...
Anyway, it's been a while so maybe I was wrong about the 96kbit vs 96khz. But still, when I see someone using a Win95 workstation with ancient Steinberg declicker plugins, I know it's crap because I'm using a new PowerMac and the modern audio tools are miles ahead of that old junk.

Re:my view on the subject:

[Anonymous Coward]

troll...?

demand more

[akb]

This project puts nothing online and its not even clear how much audio it will include, the language on the site makes it sound small. Demand that your government make the LOC put all public domain material it has online. Accept nothing less.

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?!

[Anonymous Coward]

are we allowed to destroy recordings which set humanity back in time?

Re:Mount Pony - article reminds me of...

[op51n]

Magrathea.
"Until 1988 the facility stored a $1 billion stock of currency to be used to reactivate the American economy following a nuclear attack."
I mean next thing they'll just be off to sleep 'til the economic slump has ended.
Guy: "That seems like rather unethical behaviour?"
GWBush: "Unethi-wha?"
Quite...

Such a fortress for discs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, right. :-(

I like this one...

[houseofmore]

Sung to the tune of "If You're Happy And You Know It, Clap Your Hands" If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq. If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq. If the terrorists are frisky, Pakistan is looking shifty, North Korea is too risky, Bomb Iraq. If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq. If we think someone has dissed us, bomb Iraq. So to hell with the inspections, Let's look tough for the elections, Close your mind and take directions, Bomb Iraq. It's "pre-emptive non-aggression", bomb Iraq. Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq. They've got weapons we can't see, And that's good enough for me 'Cos it's all the proof I need Bomb Iraq. If you never were elected, bomb Iraq. If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq. If you think Saddam's gone mad, With the weapons that he had, (And he tried to kill your dad), Bomb Iraq. If your corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq. If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq. If your politics are sleazy, And hiding that ain't easy, And your manhood's getting queasy, Bomb Iraq. Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq. For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq. Disagree? We'll call it treason, Let's make war not love this season, Even if we have no reason, Bomb Iraq.

Sound Archives collections. Boston Public Library.

[donsaklad]

Our Boston Public Library, the so called Massachusetts Library
of Last Recourse, deflects people interested in our Sound Archives collections.
Of interest are the recordings of now defunct local broadcasters.
Shelf lists are public record, but BPL has
violated state freedom of information principles!

See also
Weblog. Guide to Problematical Library Use. Boston Public Library.

Stories
http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.WebLogs.com/ stories

Updates
http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.WebLogs.com
http://zork.net/~dsaklad

Pr0n

[Brandeissansoo]

That's a pretty sizeable pr0n collection....

Funny?

[seanadams.com]

Can someone please burn a mod point and change that to "insightful"?

Mickey Hart and Project Gutenberg

[yerricde]

Mickey Hart of Grateful Dead fame has had a big part in this effort.

Isn't Mickey Hart the technical director of Project Gutenberg? Or, as I suspect, is this another Mickey Hart?

"Hello."

[leonbrooks]

"My name is Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Linux."

What licence is that under?

YOU DID IT!

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations, you got the first reply.

Famous Mac Sounds???

[Anonymous Coward]

Will they keep a recording of the "wild eep" for posterity. I so miss it....

Re:Famous Mac Sounds???

[commodoresloat]

OK, so I thought I'd be a smartass and look for a wav file of the wild eep sound and post the link here. What I found were hundreds of pages with wild eep lore. Unofficial wild eep fan pages. People have done 3D visual models of actual wild eeps, as they imagine them to be. I'm a Mac user, and I always knew Mac users were a little bit crazy about their Macs, but I had no idea of the depths of depravity to which we would succumb to support our favorite platform. Jobs help us all.

My complaint about the Library of Congress

[SlashdotComplainer]

Once again, I am writing in response to the Library of Congress's ventures, and once again, I merely wish to point out that the Library of Congress has no standards of decency. Instead of focusing on why thanks to the Library of Congress, gruesome political movements are experiencing a resurgence around the world, I would like to remind people that it's astounding that the Library of Congress has somehow found a way to work the words "physiologicoanatomic" and "theologicohistorical" into its complaints. However, you may find it even more astounding that its claim that a totalitarian dictatorship is the best form of government we could possibly have is not only an attack on the concept of objectivity, but an assault on the human mind. Looking at it another way, the Library of Congress's morbid rodomontades can be quite educational. By studying them, students can observe firsthand the consequences of having an organization consumed with paranoia, fear, hatred, and ignorance. Often, the lure of an articulate new pundit, a well-financed attention-getting program, an effective audience generator, hot new "inside" information, or a professionally produced exposé is irresistible to feral doofuses who want to create an ideological climate that will enable the Library of Congress to pit the haves against the have-nots. The Library of Congress could use a heavy dose of sensitivity training. Of that I am certain, because given the amount of misinformation that the Library of Congress is circulating, I must decidedly point out that it is a tremendous deadweight on our will and morale. The Library of Congress will almost certainly tiptoe around that glaringly evident fact, because if it didn't, you might come to realize that whenever there's an argument about its devotion to principles and to freedom, all one has to do is point out that widespread fascism is the price we'd pay for making "counterdisengagement" a dirty word. That should settle the argument pretty quickly. With this in mind, I must give the Library of Congress a rhadamanthine warning not to hurt others physically or emotionally. I have seen and heard enough. Now, it is time to condemn -- without hesitation, without remorse -- all those who conjure up dirt against its fellow human beings.

For the record, the Library of Congress decries or dismisses capitalism, technology, industrialization, and systems of government borne of Enlightenment ideas about the dignity and freedom of human beings. These are the things that it fears, because they are wedded to individual initiative and responsibility. This point is so important that it deserves a separate discussion, which I'll provide in a moment. We must remove our chains and move towards the light. (In case you didn't understand that analogy, the chains symbolize the Library of Congress's obstinate viewpoints, and the light represents the goal of getting all of us to draw an accurate portrait of its ideological alignment.) The whole thrust of the Library of Congress's Ponzi schemes bothers me. That's all I have to say. Thank you for reading this letter.

DMCA requires it to be erased....

[billstewart]

There's so much material that's being lost, because of media deterioration or because nobody's bothering to maintain it or make it findable by others. Any material newer than Steamboat Billy (Buster Keaton's movie that Walt Disney borrowed) or whenever the first of the copyright-extension notch babies was written has the risk that if the publisher or author or other copyright owner can't be found, nobody can publish it.

Where Have We Seen This Before?

[ewhac]

The government program to develop this site has been code-named, "The Forbin Project."

The Main Access and Control Terminal will be located in a rather angular-looking building in the hills overlooking Berkeley, Calif.

:-),
Schwab

Re:Sound Archives collections. Boston Public Libra

[blisspix]

Dear lord. Saklad is even here now.

There is no escape!

P2P as archive

[commodoresloat]

Not sure why that was modded funny, though I suppose there is some sweet irony there. But rarely does anyone talk about the value of p2p as an archive. In the heyday of napster I downloaded a bunch of speeches, stuff that wasn't easy to find, black nationalist stuff from the 60s, moon landing recordings, lectures, and so forth. But I rarely see that kind of stuff on gnutella when I look for it, and I wish it was still there. When I look for music, it's always easy to find the popular stuff, but I rarely find much of the more obscure stuff I want to find. It's ironic that the death of napster didn't stop what the RIAA wanted stopped - the large-scale trading of their big selling hits - but it did stop the more legitimate use of p2p to give people access to a relatively comprehensive archive of information. It's disgraceful that the RIAA's greed and inflated sense of self-importance would stand in the way of such a significant advancement in the human sciences. And it's pathetic that the rest of the human species is enabling what amounts to the wholesale theft of human history and culture! In ancient times, great advances in knowledge were stopped by the forces of irrationality and superstition. Today we look back and chuckle about how primitive we were then. But today we do the same thing, vilifying our visionaries as thieves instead of heretics. And we do it to mollify greed and ego rather than superstition.

On a side note, I think the ego thing is huge for the RIAA and their cohorts. Their arrogance is megalomaniacal! I mean come on, RIAA, I don't want to download your precious britney spears crap that you spend the rest of your time shoving down my throat anyway. If I wanted that shit I could go to a freakin record store. And it's not like I can't hear it for free on the radio!

No, the beauty and significance of Napster in its prime -- a truly unfettered p2p network -- was not that kids could get for free the stuff that they continued to spend millions on through t-shirts, concerts, etc. It was the fact that at any time, you could be in a conversation about the blues and mention Ethyl Waters or Ida Fox, and you were just a few clicks away from being able to actually listen to the songs you probably wouldn't even be able to find at a record store if you tried. Imagine being able to do that with the library of congress! Or all of film history! Yes, it's true, the entertainment companies will no longer be able to rely on big multimillion dollar stars in order to retain their domination of public consciousness, but is that a bad thing? Think about it.

I have my own recording

[pommiekiwifruit]

of Thomas Edison (from 1918) which I wanted to include in a dance track. If I can ever be bothered to write it.

"This is Edison speaking. This, th-th-th-this this, th-th-th-th-this is Edison Ed-ed-edison speaking"...

It's a bit hissy though (recorded on a cheap tape from a wind-up gramophone).

An online resource just makes that sort of thing too easy :-)

Don't forget the BBC

[pommiekiwifruit]

Which created lots of treasured content, then wiped over the video tapes to save money by reusing them, and stored original films in a room with a leaky roof and pools of water on the floor.

National Treasurer

[Hoarse Whisperer]

I remember listening to some sound samples from the Library of Congress about a year ago when I heard you could get to some of their library.

I got to listen to a blues harp player recorded in a Southern prison some time in the '30s by a couple who were travelling around the US making recordings of folk music for posterity.

That's the kind of thing that makes the net something special for me.

man... tough crowd

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad no one bothers looking for any discernable pattern with moderation as it would drive them insane.

Rip off

[Anonymous Coward]

So who is going to stop Hollywood from ripping off all the UK's great literature and American bands from ripping of our great music industry?

Actually you CAN listen to them.

[caseydk]

Go to the American Memory ( http://memory.loc.gov/ ) portion of the Library of Congress's page to listen/view about 3 million items. Some of Edison's original motion pictures are available.

(disclaimer: I work on the project with Ragnar)

An excellent time to build a front end

[mattr]

to whatever's been digitized. Would it be too much to ask that whatever is available, be made available in open formats? How about requesting that the search technology be made public?

Can FOIA do anything like this?

A high value target.

[twitter]

The copyright office in the Library of Congress acts to respect the law, of course, but if the master copies of films acidify, there is nothing left to protect.

The law is wrong and must be changed. It is because the law is twisted that this costly project is needed, and it is not enough. While this huge project tries to protect the "big works", countless others, not meeting the government's criteria of "important" will perish. If copyright law was reasonable, there would be countless perfect coppies of all of these works available to all. What we will be left with 100 years from now will be a tiny, sterile government approved, corporate controled waste available, pay per play.

The project istself is likely to fail. The only way to preserve works is to copy them widely. There is no better protection against time and vandalism. If you put all this stuff in one place, you set up a single point of failure for total loss. This is something that can not happen if thousands of perfect coppies are widely distributed. This cache of nationally important works will be targeted by several hostile powers. In the event of war, or even simple terrorism, this little cave's loss would be a great demoralizer. We can count on it sharing the same fate as all the other great libraies the world has ever known, some vandal's torch.

Copyright law is destroying our cultural heritige. Works only survive when they are loved and coppied. Works that are hidden can neither be coppied or loved. You are in a better position than I am to know what is being lost.

(disclaimer: I like my information free and think it's an outrage that public speaches by public figures might not be free. Give me the chance to make my own library at my own expense that I can share.)

Re:A high value target.

[ragnar]

Let me clarify foremost that I don't speak for anyone at the Library of Congress. The following is purely my opinions and thoughts.

You bring up some really good points that may apply to "born digital" or modern works. As for a wax cylindar recording, there may only be a dozen working players in the world and just a handful of people with the expertise to digitize the media in a faithful manner. Part of the preservation is the process by which these works are protected.

What you suggest sounds something like a P2P solution for generating redundancy. On the surface I like the idea, but it still requires some authoritative source to make a good master copy and collect the relevant metadata. Without some authoritative source we would have the mess found in P2P systems today, where files are named inconsistently (or wrong) and there is little notion of where a work fits into its publication. For example, I can listen to nin_head_like_a_hole.mp3, but that doesn't tell me (or someone who picks up the file in 75 years) anything about Nine Inch Nails or the album it was ripped from.

I'll concede this, because I think you bring up a good point: After the master copies are made, it may make sense for the populace to act as a type of backup system. My biggest concern however is that a Master version is unweildy (how many 96kHz x 24 bit audio files do you have?) and therefore people will prefer compressed and lossy versions for day to day use. That could change of course.

PGP, eh?

[twitter]

The facility is a former military building which is built into the side of a small mountain (more of a hill if you ask me). The first layer of protection is pretty good.

So, would it be a former military building because the military realized it could be dug up by a real attack? How many backups is enough against such an attack? How is this better than just making the information free to copy? If it's worth preserving, it should be free.

if it's not free, it's the same thing.

[twitter]

It is interesting that when the Library of Congress uses the word 'protected' in regards to a sound recording they mean exactly the opposite of what the RIAA means when they use the same word.
I like the LOC's meaning better.

If you don't have the ability to archive and share the works with your friends, the two meanings are identical and the works will perish.

NPR's Talk of the Nation discussed this today

[MMHere]

Today, 28 Jan 2003, NPR's Talk of the Nation did a program on this. The second hour of the two hour program is when they discussed it.

TOTN can be streamed (Real Audio) here: http://www.npr.org/totn3.smil

If you make it free, people will take it.

[twitter]

After the master copies are made, it may make sense for the populace to act as a type of backup system. My biggest concern however is that a Master version is unweildy (how many 96kHz x 24 bit audio files do you have?) and therefore people will prefer compressed and lossy versions for day to day use. That could change of course.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't have any such files right now, but I'm interested. I also imagine the local library would be interested too. How many people have the patience to wait for such a file to download over anything slower than 100 mbs? Every school in the country and every library in the country will want a copy as well as many private libraries and individuals. It's such obscure collectors at the ends of the earth that assure survival of culture. As luck and statistics would have it, the most likely to survive recordings now are the lossy compressed nine inch nails on the hardrive at the bottom of the landfill along with assorted scratched CDs. The peices will be put together again, but it would be much nicer to have better files out there.

Re:hear that?

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's the sound of comming in third."

See? Now, if you knew how to spell the word "coming," you would have been moderated up. Too bad you're stupid. Learn english you fucking foreigner.