We've got a global financial crises on our hands, we've got a water shortage in Melbourne, we're relying on non self sustaining fuels and all we can spend our money on is a 900$ handout to a tonne of taxpayers who will promptly donate the money to Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Panasonic, Samsung, Dolce and Gabana, Reebok, Nike or a plethora of other companies or we'll drop a tonne of coin on fibre internet.
Really?
I've got 15mbit now with ADSL2, I am happy with this, infact considering copper lines have been layed for years and are still maintained let's look at some ADSL 3 action and how about we look at somehow increasing our average download caps which seem to be between 5 and 50gb.
I want cleaner air, I want solar, wind and wave electricity, I want money put into Australian business's which will produce products internationally, I want to see poor bastard farmers looked after who have been doing it extremely tough for 10 years. All this and I'm a selfish as hell geek!
Don't get me wrong I'd love fibre to my house but is this really a priority? 43billion isn't chump change, we only have a population of 20million, let's piss it away on something more important than people needing more bandwidth to update their twitter pages.
Oh and I guess at 31 I've finally reached enlightenment with government PR and the media, the first thing I thought to myself when I heard of this is, I'll believe it when I see it.
You raise an excellent point, which briefly made me think, awesome - no matter what I'll still be able to get what I need.
Thing is, I think that torrenting, burning, unraring, playback has made many many 'dummy' users much smarter than they ever would be on a machine previously. Furthermore, they have a taste for it now, if they find torrents are shut down, they will ask their geeek friends what to do instead.
You guys have it so bad in the states with mobile phones:( Rarely do the rest of the world look at the US consumers and feel sorry for you, between price matching, rebates, sales - the majority of your goods are so cheap it sometimes defies logic.
None the less, paying to receive SMS = bullshit paying to receive phone calls? = bullshit
and if tethering is what I think it is (attaching a phone to the PC, to use as a modem?) well I can do that with my 7 year old SE T-630 over bluetooth here.... Not cool
The stuff is so cheap now, it only costs a tiny bit more to buy the brand name stuff so you're fine.
When it was 800$ AUD for 64mb of ram, the cheap '500$ stuff!!' was an option, sadly it was the wrong one but all we could afford back then. If anything needs more quality control it's either hard disks or high end gaming video cards, which literally seem to burn out between 3 and 24 months nowadays:/
Yeah I know you need my google account to compromise the document in the first place but that's only one level of security, considering some of the things I have on google docs a second level really would be appreciated.
I can't believe I'm agreeing but you're right on that space thing, as much as I love my keyboard shortcuts ALL popups from a background task should most definitely have no key highlighted.
Literally just last night I clicked yes to something (no idea what it was) and never saw it again. Also (to my knowledge) Windows logging of what's going on within the system is minimal so it's difficult to go back and check.
Also yes, far far too many 'tldr' people on forums, look at the fellow above disagreeing with me, he's arguing the semantics of the problem, instead of the fact that changes were made which simply didn't need to be.
I couldn't make a better OS, I can't code to save my life but damnit I could design several things significantly better, damn I wish linux would take off sometimes.
We're just going to have to disagree, I'm not 'most users' I'm 'advanced users' There should be only 3 things that ever slow me down when using a computer. Performance of the machine itself. My brain The speed my hands move.
Vista and Windows 7 add unwanted latency to my use of a Windows machine in the long run, you may find things better or smarter or whatever and that's great but I do not, in any way. And no, I don't blindly hate Windows 7, they did add one or two minor things superior to Windows XP, I was shocked and impressed.
I used to miss the up arrow toolbar button as well, until I understood how the breadcrumb trail worked. The latter is a _far_ better UI construct.
No it's not, it's slower to work with. Look at Expose on the mac, blindly push your mouse in X direction. It requires almost no thought at all.
This is the same as the inclusion of the up arrow.
"Oh man I'm in E:\Media\Porn\High definition\Asian girls\Mika Tan\Bondage sessions 5\ and I want to be in just E:\Media\Porn" Now I can use my eyes to analyse the very clumsy looking breadcrumb bar, find the folder I want and click on it but this finding, selecting, confirming will take me maybe 1 or 2 seconds. Or I can see the up arrow and i know I'm about 3 or 4 paths deep, I can just blindly hit that up arrow (as I know where it is, ALWAYS - especially as a maximised window user) and just go bam bam bam and I'm there.
To state again also, what's wrong with the option of BOTH - let us enable the up arrow if we want, 2 different ways of doing things won't kill people. They are fiddling with the UI to try and create something 'clever and amazing' - they've seen too many movies of Mac OS or Ubuntu with the 3D stuff enabled and think they need to copy and they sure as hell aren't planning exactly what to do and how to do it.
"In all that, you don't actually manage to say _what_ is wrong with the breadcrumb bar. Ie: *why* is it not "quick and efficient" ? The "breadcrumb bar" offers a superset of the functionality in earlier Windows versions (as is typical with Windows UI changes). What's the problem ?"
I don't think in breadcrumbs, I think in paths, directories, drives, folders - whatever you like to call them. As I tried to unsuccessfully state, give us the damned OPTION to keep the full path in there, how can options be bad for anyone? Both parties are happy then.
To drill down further, UI design is a fickle thing, Apple seem to understand it, Microsoft don't (I can't believe how much praise I heap on apple lately) Microsoft have the close window button X at the top right, don't they? It's also 100% top / right - not just on the button but as far out as you can push the mouse, that farthest pixel, this is no longer on the button but it is easier to click. This is smart. This is always in the same place, this is logical, ALWAYS easy to find, etc.
With the introduction of breadcrumbs, Microsoft (and MS supporters) claim the 'up arrow' button is no longer needed in explorer "just click the spot you'd like on the breadcrumbs" Well the breadcrumbs aren't a consistent size, they aren't always at X position in my explorer window If I want to go up 3 paths (and i know when I do, it's in my brain) I go to 'up' and I click it 'slam, bam, wham' - it takes me less than a second. With the 'amazing' breadcrumb bar, I need to analyse the bar, find the position I want, move the cursor to it and click once. Sorry but that is slower.
Not a system killer but simply dumb and un-intuitive. OPTIONS for both would allow you to enjoy breadcrumbs and me to never see the goddamn things again.
Not keeping the geeky tech people happy in administration roles is folly, it cost them a hell of a lot of Vista sales, make the damn OS very, very quick and simple to navigate and get things done for people who need to work fast on dual screens, heavy keyboard users, high speed advanced users in general.
Sorry it took so long just for that one part of your post but the big picture here is Microsoft are not being flexible on silly little things, the same 'niggles' which eventually build up over time to a 'OH FUCK THIS' and people re-install XP (I've seen many, many go to Vista and love it week 1 and 2 and by week 8 or 9, it's removed , THIS is one of those niggles that cause that)
"Win+L will also lock the screen. Much quicker."
"Because that's how it's _supposed_ to work, as per the Windows UI guidelines (Alt+accelerator key to access UI elements). Quite arguably, they've fixed a long-running UI bug.
Ctrl+Shift+Esc for Task Manager is quicker and has been around a _lot_ longer (at least NT 4.0, most likely NT 3.1). It was derived from Ctrl+Esc to get the running task list in Windows 3.x and OS/2."
Agreed, Win + L is quicker. Not the point though, I don't always hit Win + L, what's wrong with the old system? What's WRONG with the CAD menu not requiring alt, it was easier, why change something that was easier?
See my above points, they are either being pedantic and following the UI guidelines as you state or they are simply omitting the simple, little things which bug people. Either way, overall - using both Windows 7 and Windows Vista is a negative experience for compared to XP as someone who wants to simply get things done.
Your opening paragraph is precisely the post I'm talking about in my linked larger post, you're claiming a negative change is fine 'just do X instead"
I don't know how many time I need to state this but I'll try again,... The problem isn't the status bar in itself or the lack of the size being included on the status bar, the problem is they went and fiddled with shit that just ain't broke. There's simply no reason in ANY WAY. We now have an optional status bar (same as before) which now shows less information than it previously did, consuming the same amount of space on the screen and causing me to have to 'hunt' for the data elsewhere.
The status bar is the same as the omission of the up arrow. These aren't major issues at all, these are not show stoppers but they are annoying and show an overall,.... well frankly stupidity within Microsoft when it comes to keeping things simple and easy for users.
Please don't retort with 'you have to learn the new way' as I have to answers to that. 1, it was easier before as I didn't have to do ANYTHING 2, I'm fine for change if it's positive but OPTIONALLY keep in the old stuff for others, everyone is happy then.
So my post isn't "hey screw the status bar" I guess it's more of a coming of age for my brain that 'holy shit, Microsoft really don't know what the hell they are doing, do they?' I think the only genuinely "2.0" / modern / cool stuff they've ever done seems to be integration and logical stuff on the X360 to be honest.
I won't deny these are my opinion but you have to really question the design team on some of these changes.
I mean removing the free space from the status bar helps NO ONE, it's a pointless, backwards change. I don't even think it's opinion, it's simply not arguable, it's like making the windows no longer function on a car, it's simply flawed
Now as stated, the problem is small, sure but what ELSE have they got wrong, due to a simple lack of applying logic to the problems? I mean jesus, I'm an IT geek and a Windows one at that, I don't know how to design things but when I can confidently critique something as 'wrong' and be right, we've got problems.
As for your post, interesting, I might investigate this tonight. On the note of Windows stupidity, I don't know if Windows 7 in 'full aero mode' is similar to Vista, but it GENIUNELY took me about 3 minutes to find my goddamned network adapter on someones Vista machine the other day, just so I could right click and manually set an ip. The menus are that convoluted and 'dummied down' - it's truely an abortion.
Really? I get the distinct feeling it's being rushed (Think Xbox 360 to urgently replace the un-wanted Xbox 1)
The open beta 7000 came out in January and within only 4 weeks the RC was being discussed. This version of Windows is without a doubt better than Vista, no hesitation in saying that but it's still got it's issues.
No a modern OS shouldn't look flashy or at least in my case, it should have an OPTION to make it look basic and crappy like XP classic, 2000, 98SE
I still run Windows classic UI on Vista, Windows 7 and XP to this day, not because I don't like the other look but because this is the neatest, fastest way of getting things done. I realise this place is a linux shop but we do have Windows users like myself here and I can tell you, we DO a lot of RDP in Windows and RDP is rubbish with all the fluff turned on.
If I'm to have a CONSISTENT experience, I need the same experience from machine to machine, so I need classic mode in my RDP, classic in my local workstation and classic on the server(s) I work on.
Classic is simple and easy to work with and could easily be improved while still looking bland and simple. Feel free to enable 'fluffy 3d' mode for users but when it comes to getting things done, I don't WANT to wait 200ms every time I click something, for it to animate, that adds up to a lot with the work I and others may do.
I'm going to have to agree with the majority of your post, there is definitely levels of complexity being added which is simply not necessary.
Windows 7 however DOES still have a classic mode, just hit the Windows key and pause, in the system properties find performance and just set it to all 'fastest' mode - it'll drop to full classic mode (but I think the classic start menu, is completely gone)
Some people actually do prefer the Office 2007 ribbons and love them (I also can't stand them but that's why I'm still using Office 2003) Otherwise the rest of your post is pretty much on the money and it's a real damned shame.
The problem is I can't just blindly switch to linux, nor can many Windows users, if you're a gamer it's not an option and of course many many applications on Windows which allow you to do things, the linux solution might be only one or two apps which offer the same functionality.
Also linux UI's aren't exactly flawless either unfortunately, there's not overall consistency from application to application and performance, well I was surprised to be honest to try Ubuntu several times now and find it really didn't seem that much quicker than Windows once you start hammering it.
OSx has it's benefits and the UI is almost always intuitive but apples 'do it our way or the highway' attitude can be pretty abysmal at times too. (see : iphone for examples) I'm tempted to go the 'hackintosh' route on my desktop machine and run XP in a VM.
I've been 'anti-mac' since I was a 13y/o kid because I was a gamer and well I'm a whiner.
However, having used MacOSX for about 2 weeks on my Dell 8600 I can't deny that some of the UI implimentations in that OS really are, just plain 'clever' I found the concept of the 'file | edit | view | window' (etc) menu up the top, being in a consistent location to be nothing short of genius, it actually allowed me (a maximised only, always!) windows person to be able to use applications in a windows without feeling hampered.
Apple certainly have their own shortcomings, no doubt about it but it is pretty clear that they do sit down and really THINK about things, whereas MS's implimentation genuinely does appear to be a 'try this and test it maybe?!' approach.
Sorry, just to quickly respond to my post. This is the blog which clearly shows that some thought is being put in to the OS. http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/
I've been in correspondence with one of the gents from there and while he was polite and somewhat helpful, that's where I stumbled across the attitude of 'there's nothing wrong with this backwards change, you can always do this instead'
Ok ignore the subject, I'm just getting your attention.
As I've mentioned many times previously on slashdot I'm fairly opinionated when it comes to UI changes to Windows. I've been trialling the Windows 7 beta, both 7000 build legitimately and 7057, well not so legitimately.
There are distinct changes to the interface from Vista which are a vast improvement, it simply feels cleaner and neater and infact I've emailed someone to congratulate them on addressing this./ Sadly though, there are still foolish and un-necessary changes to Vista / Windows 7 which Microsoft seem to be unwilling to fix or discuss (thus far)
Example, under Windows 7, the status bar no longer shows drive space free. Why? I do not know myself. It's small, it's tucked down the bottom, it's in a consistent location AND it's optional to turn it on and off, so surely having drive space free there won't hurt anyone, if you find it too cluttered, turn the thing off.
Also, the breadcrumb bar, time and time again I've tried to hassle people for an OPTION to disable the ghastly thing, I don't mind if new users prefer it, good for you! I work on machines to get things done, I need it quick and efficient and the breacrumb bar frankly frustrates me. I don't know about you guys but I 'think in' paths, directories and drives, even if Microsoft doesn't want me to think that way anymore, it's likely how I will ALWAYS think of things on a machine, I translate things back in to paths when using the breadcrumb bar, so it's just slowing me down and... again I'm not 'getting the data' to my brain quick enough. (The ONLY THING slowing me down when working on a machine, should be me, not the controls or interface, not the performance, me! same with video games, if I die it should be due to skill, not due to frame rate or controls)
The control alt delete menu (the grey box under XP with 6 buttons) previously you could just hit space to lock the machine or t for the task manager - now you have to hold down alt. (I admit this is a small problem)
Now here's the real issue, which to be frank guys, it fucks me off.
I've brought several of these issues, minor as they may be, up on forums in several places yet Microsoft "MVP's" or Microsoft staff or forum posters simply dispute the validity of my point saying 'it's fine for me' These people don't realise what suits one, may not suit another.
Example one of the actual Microsoft staff, operating a Win 7 UI blog has responded to my email saying essentially "you realise, you can simply hit control shift esc for the task manager? rather than control alt del - t" He's absoloutely right, but the problem is WHY, WHY! and WHY did they introduce a 'requirement' to hold down alt before using the shortcut keys on the control alt delete menu? The problem isn't the issue itself the problem is WHY did they do this when it simply changes something which didn't needed to be changed and adds a layer of complexity.
I attempted to explain this to him, precisely that. Making un-necessary changes is pointless and if you're going to do things which don't need to be done, you're just going to frustrate people. It's now MORE difficult for me to bring up the task manager (using the CAD menu) than it was previoously It's now MORE difficult to see drive space free in the explorer interface It's now MORE difficult to see what 'true path' I'm in, when in an explorer window (I have to press "ALT-D" for the address bar to come up and show the proper DOS style path)
Just to re-state, the problem isn't that these are huge, mind blowingly bad changes, the problem is they are WORSE changes which are UNNECESSARY and benefit no one, furthermore there's no OPTION to put it back to how it was previously! (sorry for the caps words but I'm pretty passionate about this)
So the long story short is Microsoft are making some positive changes but they aren't 'thinking differently' they are still being closed minded and assuming X is best, deal with it. The other main issue
When is winter, where is the developer located, it is America or Europe or what, where? Are they in Australia? Don't you guys class winter as starting on the 22'nd or something whereas down here in Australia we start our seasons at the start of the month for example. How about you list the MONTHS, not the seasons, it's not hard and I don't have to wrack my brain to translate stuff back into simple months.
When will this dopey, dopey tradition end? It seems to be a North American thing. The rest of us use months.
Actually 75% of the 'cool' games on the 360 are on the PS3 and PC as well, it's just that people associate them with the 360. Just because SFIV, DMC4, COD4, Burnoute Paradise, Dead Space, Oblivion are on the 360, doesn't mean they aren't on the PS3 as well.
Love my PS3, best console I've ever owned (ok except my Xbox 1 but hey XBMC is amazing)
I enjoyed Mass Effect, I would give it a comfortable 7.5/10 and 3 of that is for the amazing, moody music. (Admitedly I was 'emo' at that time of my life myself) None the less, lovely music, incredible graphics, not a bad story and gameplay, well... I don't know, people seem to rave about Biowares stuff but Kotor and Mass Effect did not do it for me, they sit in the action RPG area but the action is a bit well lame for choice of a better word and the RPG elements just didn't feel fully fleshed out.
Oblivion is a 'proper' RPG I would say (although they are dying out) and Fable makes for a good action RPG, heavy on the action (not a Fable 2 fan though)
I'd buy Mass Effect 2 but I will say, I would not buy another 360 for it, if it's not available for my PS3 or PC, well, no sale.
Slashdot Mirror
I couldn't possibly care less.
We've got a global financial crises on our hands, we've got a water shortage in Melbourne, we're relying on non self sustaining fuels and all we can spend our money on is a 900$ handout to a tonne of taxpayers who will promptly donate the money to Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Panasonic, Samsung, Dolce and Gabana, Reebok, Nike or a plethora of other companies or we'll drop a tonne of coin on fibre internet.
Really?
I've got 15mbit now with ADSL2, I am happy with this, infact considering copper lines have been layed for years and are still maintained let's look at some ADSL 3 action and how about we look at somehow increasing our average download caps which seem to be between 5 and 50gb.
I want cleaner air, I want solar, wind and wave electricity, I want money put into Australian business's which will produce products internationally, I want to see poor bastard farmers looked after who have been doing it extremely tough for 10 years.
All this and I'm a selfish as hell geek!
Don't get me wrong I'd love fibre to my house but is this really a priority? 43billion isn't chump change, we only have a population of 20million, let's piss it away on something more important than people needing more bandwidth to update their twitter pages.
Oh and I guess at 31 I've finally reached enlightenment with government PR and the media, the first thing I thought to myself when I heard of this is, I'll believe it when I see it.
You've had that signature for years, where's the movie damnit.
You raise an excellent point, which briefly made me think, awesome - no matter what I'll still be able to get what I need.
Thing is, I think that torrenting, burning, unraring, playback has made many many 'dummy' users much smarter than they ever would be on a machine previously.
Furthermore, they have a taste for it now, if they find torrents are shut down, they will ask their geeek friends what to do instead.
You guys have it so bad in the states with mobile phones :(
Rarely do the rest of the world look at the US consumers and feel sorry for you, between price matching, rebates, sales - the majority of your goods are so cheap it sometimes defies logic.
None the less, paying to receive SMS = bullshit
paying to receive phone calls? = bullshit
and if tethering is what I think it is (attaching a phone to the PC, to use as a modem?) well I can do that with my 7 year old SE T-630 over bluetooth here....
Not cool
The stuff is so cheap now, it only costs a tiny bit more to buy the brand name stuff so you're fine.
When it was 800$ AUD for 64mb of ram, the cheap '500$ stuff!!' was an option, sadly it was the wrong one but all we could afford back then. :/
If anything needs more quality control it's either hard disks or high end gaming video cards, which literally seem to burn out between 3 and 24 months nowadays
Yeah I know you need my google account to compromise the document in the first place but that's only one level of security, considering some of the things I have on google docs a second level really would be appreciated.
Sorry I don't get the relevance of the -y can someone please explain - I'm sure it's an interesting story?
(sorry)
Exactly this, the lack of consistency in where to click the mouse is the problem.
Consistency is key with UI's and Vista / 7 fail that.
I can't believe I'm agreeing but you're right on that space thing, as much as I love my keyboard shortcuts ALL popups from a background task should most definitely have no key highlighted.
Literally just last night I clicked yes to something (no idea what it was) and never saw it again.
Also (to my knowledge) Windows logging of what's going on within the system is minimal so it's difficult to go back and check.
Also yes, far far too many 'tldr' people on forums, look at the fellow above disagreeing with me, he's arguing the semantics of the problem, instead of the fact that changes were made which simply didn't need to be.
I couldn't make a better OS, I can't code to save my life but damnit I could design several things significantly better, damn I wish linux would take off sometimes.
We're just going to have to disagree, I'm not 'most users' I'm 'advanced users'
There should be only 3 things that ever slow me down when using a computer.
Performance of the machine itself.
My brain
The speed my hands move.
Vista and Windows 7 add unwanted latency to my use of a Windows machine in the long run, you may find things better or smarter or whatever and that's great but I do not, in any way.
And no, I don't blindly hate Windows 7, they did add one or two minor things superior to Windows XP, I was shocked and impressed.
Backspace does not go up, it goes back.
This is a common misconception.
ALT + UpArrow goes 'up' as does of course the up button, in XP.
I used to miss the up arrow toolbar button as well, until I understood how the breadcrumb trail worked. The latter is a _far_ better UI construct.
No it's not, it's slower to work with.
Look at Expose on the mac, blindly push your mouse in X direction.
It requires almost no thought at all.
This is the same as the inclusion of the up arrow.
"Oh man I'm in E:\Media\Porn\High definition\Asian girls\Mika Tan\Bondage sessions 5\ and I want to be in just E:\Media\Porn"
Now I can use my eyes to analyse the very clumsy looking breadcrumb bar, find the folder I want and click on it but this finding, selecting, confirming will take me maybe 1 or 2 seconds.
Or I can see the up arrow and i know I'm about 3 or 4 paths deep, I can just blindly hit that up arrow (as I know where it is, ALWAYS - especially as a maximised window user) and just go bam bam bam and I'm there.
To state again also, what's wrong with the option of BOTH - let us enable the up arrow if we want, 2 different ways of doing things won't kill people.
They are fiddling with the UI to try and create something 'clever and amazing' - they've seen too many movies of Mac OS or Ubuntu with the 3D stuff enabled and think they need to copy and they sure as hell aren't planning exactly what to do and how to do it.
"In all that, you don't actually manage to say _what_ is wrong with the breadcrumb bar. Ie: *why* is it not "quick and efficient" ? The "breadcrumb bar" offers a superset of the functionality in earlier Windows versions (as is typical with Windows UI changes). What's the problem ?"
I don't think in breadcrumbs, I think in paths, directories, drives, folders - whatever you like to call them.
As I tried to unsuccessfully state, give us the damned OPTION to keep the full path in there, how can options be bad for anyone? Both parties are happy then.
To drill down further, UI design is a fickle thing, Apple seem to understand it, Microsoft don't (I can't believe how much praise I heap on apple lately)
Microsoft have the close window button X at the top right, don't they?
It's also 100% top / right - not just on the button but as far out as you can push the mouse, that farthest pixel, this is no longer on the button but it is easier to click.
This is smart.
This is always in the same place, this is logical, ALWAYS easy to find, etc.
With the introduction of breadcrumbs, Microsoft (and MS supporters) claim the 'up arrow' button is no longer needed in explorer "just click the spot you'd like on the breadcrumbs"
Well the breadcrumbs aren't a consistent size, they aren't always at X position in my explorer window
If I want to go up 3 paths (and i know when I do, it's in my brain) I go to 'up' and I click it 'slam, bam, wham' - it takes me less than a second.
With the 'amazing' breadcrumb bar, I need to analyse the bar, find the position I want, move the cursor to it and click once.
Sorry but that is slower.
Not a system killer but simply dumb and un-intuitive.
OPTIONS for both would allow you to enjoy breadcrumbs and me to never see the goddamn things again.
Not keeping the geeky tech people happy in administration roles is folly, it cost them a hell of a lot of Vista sales, make the damn OS very, very quick and simple to navigate and get things done for people who need to work fast on dual screens, heavy keyboard users, high speed advanced users in general.
Sorry it took so long just for that one part of your post but the big picture here is Microsoft are not being flexible on silly little things, the same 'niggles' which eventually build up over time to a 'OH FUCK THIS' and people re-install XP (I've seen many, many go to Vista and love it week 1 and 2 and by week 8 or 9, it's removed , THIS is one of those niggles that cause that)
"Win+L will also lock the screen. Much quicker."
"Because that's how it's _supposed_ to work, as per the Windows UI guidelines (Alt+accelerator key to access UI elements). Quite arguably, they've fixed a long-running UI bug.
Ctrl+Shift+Esc for Task Manager is quicker and has been around a _lot_ longer (at least NT 4.0, most likely NT 3.1). It was derived from Ctrl+Esc to get the running task list in Windows 3.x and OS/2."
Agreed, Win + L is quicker.
Not the point though, I don't always hit Win + L, what's wrong with the old system?
What's WRONG with the CAD menu not requiring alt, it was easier, why change something that was easier?
See my above points, they are either being pedantic and following the UI guidelines as you state or they are simply omitting the simple, little things which bug people.
Either way, overall - using both Windows 7 and Windows Vista is a negative experience for compared to XP as someone who wants to simply get things done.
Your opening paragraph is precisely the post I'm talking about in my linked larger post, you're claiming a negative change is fine 'just do X instead"
I don't know how many time I need to state this but I'll try again,...
The problem isn't the status bar in itself or the lack of the size being included on the status bar, the problem is they went and fiddled with shit that just ain't broke.
There's simply no reason in ANY WAY.
We now have an optional status bar (same as before) which now shows less information than it previously did, consuming the same amount of space on the screen and causing me to have to 'hunt' for the data elsewhere.
This isn't a major problem but it's indicitave of them not planning, not thinking and frankly just 'tinkering with stuff to see what people like'
See what this guy says about them 'tinkering' http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1173797&threshold=3&commentsort=3&mode=nested&cid=27314239
The status bar is the same as the omission of the up arrow. .... well frankly stupidity within Microsoft when it comes to keeping things simple and easy for users.
These aren't major issues at all, these are not show stoppers but they are annoying and show an overall,
Please don't retort with 'you have to learn the new way' as I have to answers to that.
1, it was easier before as I didn't have to do ANYTHING
2, I'm fine for change if it's positive but OPTIONALLY keep in the old stuff for others, everyone is happy then.
So my post isn't "hey screw the status bar" I guess it's more of a coming of age for my brain that 'holy shit, Microsoft really don't know what the hell they are doing, do they?'
I think the only genuinely "2.0" / modern / cool stuff they've ever done seems to be integration and logical stuff on the X360 to be honest.
I won't deny these are my opinion but you have to really question the design team on some of these changes.
I mean removing the free space from the status bar helps NO ONE, it's a pointless, backwards change.
I don't even think it's opinion, it's simply not arguable, it's like making the windows no longer function on a car, it's simply flawed
Now as stated, the problem is small, sure but what ELSE have they got wrong, due to a simple lack of applying logic to the problems?
I mean jesus, I'm an IT geek and a Windows one at that, I don't know how to design things but when I can confidently critique something as 'wrong' and be right, we've got problems.
As for your post, interesting, I might investigate this tonight.
On the note of Windows stupidity, I don't know if Windows 7 in 'full aero mode' is similar to Vista, but it GENIUNELY took me about 3 minutes to find my goddamned network adapter on someones Vista machine the other day, just so I could right click and manually set an ip.
The menus are that convoluted and 'dummied down' - it's truely an abortion.
Really? I get the distinct feeling it's being rushed (Think Xbox 360 to urgently replace the un-wanted Xbox 1)
The open beta 7000 came out in January and within only 4 weeks the RC was being discussed.
This version of Windows is without a doubt better than Vista, no hesitation in saying that but it's still got it's issues.
See here for example.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1173797&cid=27320451
No a modern OS shouldn't look flashy or at least in my case, it should have an OPTION to make it look basic and crappy like XP classic, 2000, 98SE
I still run Windows classic UI on Vista, Windows 7 and XP to this day, not because I don't like the other look but because this is the neatest, fastest way of getting things done.
I realise this place is a linux shop but we do have Windows users like myself here and I can tell you, we DO a lot of RDP in Windows and RDP is rubbish with all the fluff turned on.
If I'm to have a CONSISTENT experience, I need the same experience from machine to machine, so I need classic mode in my RDP, classic in my local workstation and classic on the server(s) I work on.
Classic is simple and easy to work with and could easily be improved while still looking bland and simple.
Feel free to enable 'fluffy 3d' mode for users but when it comes to getting things done, I don't WANT to wait 200ms every time I click something, for it to animate, that adds up to a lot with the work I and others may do.
I'm going to have to agree with the majority of your post, there is definitely levels of complexity being added which is simply not necessary.
Windows 7 however DOES still have a classic mode, just hit the Windows key and pause, in the system properties find performance and just set it to all 'fastest' mode - it'll drop to full classic mode (but I think the classic start menu, is completely gone)
Some people actually do prefer the Office 2007 ribbons and love them (I also can't stand them but that's why I'm still using Office 2003)
Otherwise the rest of your post is pretty much on the money and it's a real damned shame.
The problem is I can't just blindly switch to linux, nor can many Windows users, if you're a gamer it's not an option and of course many many applications on Windows which allow you to do things, the linux solution might be only one or two apps which offer the same functionality.
Also linux UI's aren't exactly flawless either unfortunately, there's not overall consistency from application to application and performance, well I was surprised to be honest to try Ubuntu several times now and find it really didn't seem that much quicker than Windows once you start hammering it.
OSx has it's benefits and the UI is almost always intuitive but apples 'do it our way or the highway' attitude can be pretty abysmal at times too. (see : iphone for examples)
I'm tempted to go the 'hackintosh' route on my desktop machine and run XP in a VM.
I've been 'anti-mac' since I was a 13y/o kid because I was a gamer and well I'm a whiner.
However, having used MacOSX for about 2 weeks on my Dell 8600 I can't deny that some of the UI implimentations in that OS really are, just plain 'clever'
I found the concept of the 'file | edit | view | window' (etc) menu up the top, being in a consistent location to be nothing short of genius, it actually allowed me (a maximised only, always!) windows person to be able to use applications in a windows without feeling hampered.
Apple certainly have their own shortcomings, no doubt about it but it is pretty clear that they do sit down and really THINK about things, whereas MS's implimentation genuinely does appear to be a 'try this and test it maybe?!' approach.
Sorry, just to quickly respond to my post.
This is the blog which clearly shows that some thought is being put in to the OS.
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/
I've been in correspondence with one of the gents from there and while he was polite and somewhat helpful, that's where I stumbled across the attitude of 'there's nothing wrong with this backwards change, you can always do this instead'
Ok ignore the subject, I'm just getting your attention.
As I've mentioned many times previously on slashdot I'm fairly opinionated when it comes to UI changes to Windows.
I've been trialling the Windows 7 beta, both 7000 build legitimately and 7057, well not so legitimately.
There are distinct changes to the interface from Vista which are a vast improvement, it simply feels cleaner and neater and infact I've emailed someone to congratulate them on addressing this./
Sadly though, there are still foolish and un-necessary changes to Vista / Windows 7 which Microsoft seem to be unwilling to fix or discuss (thus far)
Example, under Windows 7, the status bar no longer shows drive space free. Why? I do not know myself.
It's small, it's tucked down the bottom, it's in a consistent location AND it's optional to turn it on and off, so surely having drive space free there won't hurt anyone, if you find it too cluttered, turn the thing off.
Also, the breadcrumb bar, time and time again I've tried to hassle people for an OPTION to disable the ghastly thing, I don't mind if new users prefer it, good for you! I work on machines to get things done, I need it quick and efficient and the breacrumb bar frankly frustrates me.
I don't know about you guys but I 'think in' paths, directories and drives, even if Microsoft doesn't want me to think that way anymore, it's likely how I will ALWAYS think of things on a machine, I translate things back in to paths when using the breadcrumb bar, so it's just slowing me down and... again I'm not 'getting the data' to my brain quick enough.
(The ONLY THING slowing me down when working on a machine, should be me, not the controls or interface, not the performance, me! same with video games, if I die it should be due to skill, not due to frame rate or controls)
The control alt delete menu (the grey box under XP with 6 buttons) previously you could just hit space to lock the machine or t for the task manager - now you have to hold down alt. (I admit this is a small problem)
Now here's the real issue, which to be frank guys, it fucks me off.
I've brought several of these issues, minor as they may be, up on forums in several places yet Microsoft "MVP's" or Microsoft staff or forum posters simply dispute the validity of my point saying 'it's fine for me'
These people don't realise what suits one, may not suit another.
Example one of the actual Microsoft staff, operating a Win 7 UI blog has responded to my email saying essentially "you realise, you can simply hit control shift esc for the task manager? rather than control alt del - t"
He's absoloutely right, but the problem is WHY, WHY! and WHY did they introduce a 'requirement' to hold down alt before using the shortcut keys on the control alt delete menu?
The problem isn't the issue itself the problem is WHY did they do this when it simply changes something which didn't needed to be changed and adds a layer of complexity.
I attempted to explain this to him, precisely that. Making un-necessary changes is pointless and if you're going to do things which don't need to be done, you're just going to frustrate people.
It's now MORE difficult for me to bring up the task manager (using the CAD menu) than it was previoously
It's now MORE difficult to see drive space free in the explorer interface
It's now MORE difficult to see what 'true path' I'm in, when in an explorer window (I have to press "ALT-D" for the address bar to come up and show the proper DOS style path)
Just to re-state, the problem isn't that these are huge, mind blowingly bad changes, the problem is they are WORSE changes which are UNNECESSARY and benefit no one, furthermore there's no OPTION to put it back to how it was previously!
(sorry for the caps words but I'm pretty passionate about this)
So the long story short is Microsoft are making some positive changes but they aren't 'thinking differently' they are still being closed minded and assuming X is best, deal with it.
The other main issue
What is fall, is that a funny name for autumn?
It's a wank and it's un-necessary, USE MONTHS PEOPLE.
When is winter, where is the developer located, it is America or Europe or what, where? Are they in Australia?
Don't you guys class winter as starting on the 22'nd or something whereas down here in Australia we start our seasons at the start of the month for example.
How about you list the MONTHS, not the seasons, it's not hard and I don't have to wrack my brain to translate stuff back into simple months.
When will this dopey, dopey tradition end? It seems to be a North American thing.
The rest of us use months.
Actually 75% of the 'cool' games on the 360 are on the PS3 and PC as well, it's just that people associate them with the 360.
Just because SFIV, DMC4, COD4, Burnoute Paradise, Dead Space, Oblivion are on the 360, doesn't mean they aren't on the PS3 as well.
Love my PS3, best console I've ever owned (ok except my Xbox 1 but hey XBMC is amazing)
I enjoyed Mass Effect, I would give it a comfortable 7.5/10 and 3 of that is for the amazing, moody music.
(Admitedly I was 'emo' at that time of my life myself)
None the less, lovely music, incredible graphics, not a bad story and gameplay, well... I don't know, people seem to rave about Biowares stuff but Kotor and Mass Effect did not do it for me, they sit in the action RPG area but the action is a bit well lame for choice of a better word and the RPG elements just didn't feel fully fleshed out.
Oblivion is a 'proper' RPG I would say (although they are dying out) and Fable makes for a good action RPG, heavy on the action (not a Fable 2 fan though)
I'd buy Mass Effect 2 but I will say, I would not buy another 360 for it, if it's not available for my PS3 or PC, well, no sale.