That sort of issue started showing up years ago. I first noticed it with a PS1 game, Darkstone, back in 2000 Don't even think about playing it without S-Video. There's a few PS2 games where it's a problem, both Hot Shots Golf (tiny UI text), and Dark Cloud (inventory text)
The reverse of this problem is super huge text that reduces the amount of displayed info.
Gaming devices benefit more than anything else from higher quality inputs/connnections and displays. Trust me on this.
Lets go back to the Atari 2600 days. The machine was shipped with a tv/game switch with 300 ohm spade type connectors. You'd unscrew some terminals on the back of your TV and screwed it back on. This provided a display easily affected by loose connections and interference (herringbone patterns and the like).
Now you could go to Radio Shack and buy a TV/game switch with standard 75 ohm coaxial connectors. Use that instead 300 ohm one and that herringbone went away and everything looked better, and it was easier to hook up.
Nintendo's NES came with an automatic game switch with 75 ohm coaxial connection. If you still needed 300, you had to buy a separate thing that IIRC was called a balun. The NES also had composite connectors, which give much better output, if you were lucky enough to have a set or monitor (like one of those philips made commodore monitors) that could accept it back in the mid to late 80's.
By 1991 composite inputs on TV's were common enough that nintendo included a composite cable by default with the SNES, any RF connection was separate, but they still sold plenty of those since as I've mentioned in this discussion that many game machines are connected to a cheaper, less technically capable set than a family's main set. The SNES also supports S-Video ouput, though back in 1991 it was rarer to find it. I remember going to a TV dealer (back when there were such things) and askes which sets supported S-Video for the upcoming SNES. They said, none and said why would you need that, nothing uses it.
SNES games look really nice over S-video, good color that doesn't bleed, sharp text. It difference really does stick out.
The PS1 came with composite connections out of the box and the original version of the machine used actual composite, and S-video connectors on the machine itself, though again, sony sold a lot of RF connection gizmos. Later models switched to what became the standard Playstation multi-out jack. The PS1 is also the first game system I owned that had a few games that worked best with S-video connectors due to font/text issues. (Darkstone, I'm looking at you) S-video made everything look good.
The PS2 supports component connections, though since TV's with component weren't all that common, the cables themselves weren't ubiquitous. But they were required if you wanted to use certain games progressive scan modes. They also helped color clarity and whatnot on regular games.
What do you mean there's no way to get sound out of it, it comes with a composite cable, yellow plug for video, red + white plugs for audio. Unless you've got an RF only set, it shouldn't be an issue. If you do have an RF only set the best solution is to get a separate RF modulator. Most stores sell the philips version I think. Plug the yellow cable into that and then that into the TV. Then you plug the audio plugs into a separate player for audio, say a boombox of some kind with RCA inputs. Did that with my PS1 with an RF only set, and then with a small monitor with composite video input but mono sound.
Sony does sell an RF adapter for the Playstation devices but it combines the audio so you get mono sound.
Yep, that's how it's worked for years. the family set is the nice one in the living room but the gaming machine, whether it be an Atari 2600 30 years ago or a PS3/Xbox360 today is hooked up to a second set that isn't as good. Some old cheapo 13" black and white in the old days or some cheapo 13 inch CRT set with RF inputs or composite (with mono sound) now.
Until relatively recently, you couldn't buy quality TV's for bedroom/playroom gaming, small sets were designed on the cheap so you had to do without niceties as stereo sound or s-video, let alone component inputs in the PS2 days (pretty much restricted to 25" sets and larger) Course nowadays you can buy relatively inexpensive 15-19" 1080i/720p sets with HDMI and component inputs that are basically monitors with a tuner.
I feel similarly about Fallout 3. I remember coming out of that vault with a pistol, a riot baton and a few rounds of ammo. So I walked down and saw somthing in the distance and decided to head towards it. It was one of those gas stations. Then I looked around headed off into another direction and found Megaton, which was good because at least then I had one safe spot.
I talked to people and found out about that Bomb and decided to try defusing it, which I did with a little Mentat help. That got me the hovel, a place to rest and put my stuff. That was hella important in Oblivion so I figured it was pretty darn useful in Fallout 3, too. (in fact I recommend people to do "Children of the Atom" ASAP to get a place to safely put your stuff. So, then I talked to Moira, the cutie patootie, who started me on her quests. Those are good to do too, they take you around, show you places and get you stuff. Well, trying to cross the river to get to those sewers to kill mole rats I saw raiders on the other side, and they saw me. They had long range weapons...I had a pistol and a combat shotgun (recovered from a raider at the Super Mart) and a few grenades. So I pistol shot them at range.....took forever, vats n cover. But I got them, eventually and crossed the river. I grabbed their stuff and as I was doing so I was under fire....from Super Mutants back across the river not far from where I had been. One of them had a minigun so I decided to take them out. I had just about managed to kill one when a power failure (a thunderstorm....in december) hit.
The whole thing was exciting, worrying about ammo, knowing my resources were low, little caps, weak armor. When the power came back on I started out again, this time I found a scavenger near the river who had a cheap hunting rifle for sale. That was the turning point, and I figure it's the turning point for many people when they get their first medium/long range weapon. With that, I made it to the sewer with the mole rats, and wiped out the rats and the raiders, who also had hunting rifles and a couple of assault rifles. Then I exited the sewer at the other end, and encountered a bunch of Super Mutants and a Centaur. Man was I scared shitless. I believe I shouted. "Oh Fuck!" I was tempted to run right back in the sewer but decided to try to take them out. Turns out, base level super mutants aint so tough and die just like anyone else when you shove your combat shotgun in their faces. I was hurt, yes, I used stimpacks, yes. But they sure had tons of stuff in their building, and their own weapons.
From then on, I was reasonably well equipped, though I still had to watch my ammo consumption for a while. Ran out of shotgun shells once or twice, after that, (forcing me to use a 10mm SMG for close in work) and IIRC 32 cal ammo too (more of a problem since the hunting rifle is just so useful). Nowadays, I walk around with impunity and the only ammo I have to worry about is.44 (for lincolns repeater and the Blackhawk), I have over 350 stimpacks, but who needs them, by the time I really think about using one is probably when I'm full up on inventory and heading back to Megaton (and my infirmary) anyway.
Something similar happens in Oblivion, there the tipping point is when you can afford to buy the shack in the waterfront. I did that after doing the Arena and looting the Guilds for stuff (after I had joined them, so I could take anything not nailed down).
Takes a while to start, but once it does, it's fine. I tended to use AbiWord anyway, since I have much more use for a word processor than the other "office" style applications. Besides, at one time not so very long ago 256MB was one of the standard configurations for computers running WinXP and Microsoft Office. I'd lay odds that there are still computers on desktops with that configuration doing work today.
I do have VRAM swap enabled, that helps. Since Linux on the PS3 is framebuffer only, it's possible to use the video RAM as very fast swap, it's enabled by default in YDL 6.2
Linux on the PS2 or PS3 has nothing to do with that tax, which was eliminated before either was released. Where are you people getting your information?
Sony did officially support Linux. They had a website for the PS3, that told you how to go about doing it and how it's a supported feature for the PS3. They sold a kit for the PS2 that let you install Linux on it and still maintain the PS2 Linux website and message board (though the board is going down in October after over 7 years of operation)
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there still are PS2's running Linux in tucked away in SCEA/SCEE offices.
It was Yabasic on the PS2 that was an attempt to circumvent the tariff, not LInux. The tariff was eliminated before Linux on the PS2 was ever released in Europe. So Linux on the PS3 has nothing to do with that.
Yes, but the GPU client is the ONLY client that beats the PS3, and it does require a nice GPU that might cost more than the PS3. The PS3 client runs on any ol PS3 and there are a lot more PS3's out there than PC's that can make use of the GPU client. Also, folding@home is installed by default on PS3's. So in bang for the buck the PS3 is still king.
Actually, it was a deciding factor for me, a minor one to be sure. I actually cared more about the PS2 and PS1 compatibility. But I was one of those with a PS2 Linux kit and that things hard drive was going to fail eventually. As you said, running Linux on it is a nice extra that lets me read my e-mail, post to slashdot, play nethack, edit my pictures, and chat on IM and IRC.
No traditional Linux neckbeard for me though, I actually don't want my facial hair, but that...is another story.:-)
Until, what was it, sometime in 2008? The PS3 was the best bang for the buck as a Blu-Ray player. Bonusview, BD-Live, lots of storage for BD-Live content (so you can play lots of discs without having to delete stuff all the time like you might on a standalone with a single 1GB), and a powerful 3.2GHz CPU that makes all the lovely menu's and whatnot, snappy. And then there's all the other things it does. "It only does everything!" (I have a CECHE01 so it DOES do everything including SACD, Linux and PS2 games)
And now, since it's $299, it's the probably best bang for the buck again.
He wants an official dev kit, but they won't give him one since he's an amateur without an office and whatnot. That's his major focus, that and same screen multiplayer on SDTV's.
I agree, anyone who wanted to run Linux on a PS3 probably already has one. The slim model is not aimed at Sony's hardcore fanbase (who probably wanted backwards compatibility and already have a PS3) or open source geeks, but those who don't have one already.
Sony said something similar when they released the slim PS2 without the hard drive bay: "Look, most likely anyone who wanted to play the few hard drive enabled games already has a fat PS2 because they're hardcore fans"
I think I have a better experience, but I use fluxbox on YDL6.2. Besides, after running Linux on a PS2 for 6 years I know pretty well what works on low RAM systems. Though 256MB isn't all that low, that was the standard RAM with XP systems as late as 2003.
Besides, how many people use their PS3 as the main computer anyway?
Raises hand.
Think about what the majority of non-gamer people use computers for: web browsing, some IMing, e-mail, sending pictures to grandma, maybe using Word, or more likely the word processor in Works.
I can do all that on the PS3 under Linux. And if I want to play games, besides NetHack, one ps3-boot-game-os later I'm back in what Sony calls GameOS
Yes, LInux on the PS3 runs under a hypervisor, but your information is quite incorrect. You have full access to the dual threaded PPC core (with Altivec) and it runs at the full 3.2 GHz speed. You also have full access to 6 SPE's. What you don't have is full access to the RSX, only framebuffer, but that's okay if you only want to do serious number crunching as a researcher. They use off the shelf PS3 hardware.
Standard def is the past, HD is the future Yes, we all know you babysit at a house with standard def that doesn't have multiple computers for multiplayer and you're having trouble getting multiple USB controllers identified or something.
It's simple, computer with HDMI, console with HDMI, HDTV with HDMI. Go to the TV section of your local foo-mart. You'll see lots of HD sets and perhaps a small shelf off to the side with a few SD ones.
We've told you what to do: Do a prototype on your PC, put it in your portfolio and apply for a job at a regular dev house, get some experience behind you, THEN get a small team together if you want and start your own dev house. Travel to Chicago or Silicon Valley or Seattle, just do it.
Never had a scratched disc, perhaps the people complaining that they need "backups" in case they scratch the discs need to take care of their valuable things better.
I have a CECHE01 PS3 with a Linux install on it, I updated to 3.00 without worrying about losing my ability to boot or install a newer Linux distro. The options are still there and they work, just like I still have the ability to virtual PS2 memory cards and play PS2 games even though PS3's newer than my model can't do that.
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That sort of issue started showing up years ago. I first noticed it with a PS1 game, Darkstone, back in 2000 Don't even think about playing it without S-Video. There's a few PS2 games where it's a problem, both Hot Shots Golf (tiny UI text), and Dark Cloud (inventory text)
The reverse of this problem is super huge text that reduces the amount of displayed info.
Gaming devices benefit more than anything else from higher quality inputs/connnections and displays. Trust me on this.
Lets go back to the Atari 2600 days. The machine was shipped with a tv/game switch with 300 ohm spade type connectors. You'd unscrew some terminals on the back of your TV and screwed it back on. This provided a display easily affected by loose connections and interference (herringbone patterns and the like).
Now you could go to Radio Shack and buy a TV/game switch with standard 75 ohm coaxial connectors. Use that instead 300 ohm one and that herringbone went away and everything looked better, and it was easier to hook up.
Nintendo's NES came with an automatic game switch with 75 ohm coaxial connection. If you still needed 300, you had to buy a separate thing that IIRC was called a balun. The NES also had composite connectors, which give much better output, if you were lucky enough to have a set or monitor (like one of those philips made commodore monitors) that could accept it back in the mid to late 80's.
By 1991 composite inputs on TV's were common enough that nintendo included a composite cable by default with the SNES, any RF connection was separate, but they still sold plenty of those since as I've mentioned in this discussion that many game machines are connected to a cheaper, less technically capable set than a family's main set. The SNES also supports S-Video ouput, though back in 1991 it was rarer to find it. I remember going to a TV dealer (back when there were such things) and askes which sets supported S-Video for the upcoming SNES. They said, none and said why would you need that, nothing uses it.
SNES games look really nice over S-video, good color that doesn't bleed, sharp text. It difference really does stick out.
The PS1 came with composite connections out of the box and the original version of the machine used actual composite, and S-video connectors on the machine itself, though again, sony sold a lot of RF connection gizmos. Later models switched to what became the standard Playstation multi-out jack. The PS1 is also the first game system I owned that had a few games that worked best with S-video connectors due to font/text issues. (Darkstone, I'm looking at you) S-video made everything look good.
The PS2 supports component connections, though since TV's with component weren't all that common, the cables themselves weren't ubiquitous. But they were required if you wanted to use certain games progressive scan modes. They also helped color clarity and whatnot on regular games.
What do you mean there's no way to get sound out of it, it comes with a composite cable, yellow plug for video, red + white plugs for audio. Unless you've got an RF only set, it shouldn't be an issue. If you do have an RF only set the best solution is to get a separate RF modulator. Most stores sell the philips version I think. Plug the yellow cable into that and then that into the TV. Then you plug the audio plugs into a separate player for audio, say a boombox of some kind with RCA inputs. Did that with my PS1 with an RF only set, and then with a small monitor with composite video input but mono sound.
Sony does sell an RF adapter for the Playstation devices but it combines the audio so you get mono sound.
Yep, that's how it's worked for years. the family set is the nice one in the living room but the gaming machine, whether it be an Atari 2600 30 years ago or a PS3/Xbox360 today is hooked up to a second set that isn't as good. Some old cheapo 13" black and white in the old days or some cheapo 13 inch CRT set with RF inputs or composite (with mono sound) now.
Until relatively recently, you couldn't buy quality TV's for bedroom/playroom gaming, small sets were designed on the cheap so you had to do without niceties as stereo sound or s-video, let alone component inputs in the PS2 days (pretty much restricted to 25" sets and larger) Course nowadays you can buy relatively inexpensive 15-19" 1080i/720p sets with HDMI and component inputs that are basically monitors with a tuner.
Yeah but 1080p is a widescreen resolution so it's got more detail horizontally 1920x1080 vs your 1600x1200.
I feel similarly about Fallout 3. I remember coming out of that vault with a pistol, a riot baton and a few rounds of ammo. So I walked down and saw somthing in the distance and decided to head towards it. It was one of those gas stations. Then I looked around headed off into another direction and found Megaton, which was good because at least then I had one safe spot.
I talked to people and found out about that Bomb and decided to try defusing it, which I did with a little Mentat help. That got me the hovel, a place to rest and put my stuff. That was hella important in Oblivion so I figured it was pretty darn useful in Fallout 3, too. (in fact I recommend people to do "Children of the Atom" ASAP to get a place to safely put your stuff. So, then I talked to Moira, the cutie patootie, who started me on her quests. Those are good to do too, they take you around, show you places and get you stuff. Well, trying to cross the river to get to those sewers to kill mole rats I saw raiders on the other side, and they saw me. They had long range weapons...I had a pistol and a combat shotgun (recovered from a raider at the Super Mart) and a few grenades. So I pistol shot them at range.....took forever, vats n cover. But I got them, eventually and crossed the river. I grabbed their stuff and as I was doing so I was under fire....from Super Mutants back across the river not far from where I had been. One of them had a minigun so I decided to take them out. I had just about managed to kill one when a power failure (a thunderstorm....in december) hit.
The whole thing was exciting, worrying about ammo, knowing my resources were low, little caps, weak armor. When the power came back on I started out again, this time I found a scavenger near the river who had a cheap hunting rifle for sale. That was the turning point, and I figure it's the turning point for many people when they get their first medium/long range weapon. With that, I made it to the sewer with the mole rats, and wiped out the rats and the raiders, who also had hunting rifles and a couple of assault rifles. Then I exited the sewer at the other end, and encountered a bunch of Super Mutants and a Centaur. Man was I scared shitless. I believe I shouted. "Oh Fuck!" I was tempted to run right back in the sewer but decided to try to take them out. Turns out, base level super mutants aint so tough and die just like anyone else when you shove your combat shotgun in their faces. I was hurt, yes, I used stimpacks, yes. But they sure had tons of stuff in their building, and their own weapons.
From then on, I was reasonably well equipped, though I still had to watch my ammo consumption for a while. Ran out of shotgun shells once or twice, after that, (forcing me to use a 10mm SMG for close in work) and IIRC 32 cal ammo too (more of a problem since the hunting rifle is just so useful). Nowadays, I walk around with impunity and the only ammo I have to worry about is .44 (for lincolns repeater and the Blackhawk), I have over 350 stimpacks, but who needs them, by the time I really think about using one is probably when I'm full up on inventory and heading back to Megaton (and my infirmary) anyway.
Something similar happens in Oblivion, there the tipping point is when you can afford to buy the shack in the waterfront. I did that after doing the Arena and looting the Guilds for stuff (after I had joined them, so I could take anything not nailed down).
I forgot to mention that the GPU client is limited in the types of work units that it can do, the PS3 client is more versatile.
If you want to make money at it, probably yes. Though I am not a developer.
Takes a while to start, but once it does, it's fine. I tended to use AbiWord anyway, since I have much more use for a word processor than the other "office" style applications. Besides, at one time not so very long ago 256MB was one of the standard configurations for computers running WinXP and Microsoft Office. I'd lay odds that there are still computers on desktops with that configuration doing work today.
I do have VRAM swap enabled, that helps. Since Linux on the PS3 is framebuffer only, it's possible to use the video RAM as very fast swap, it's enabled by default in YDL 6.2
Linux on the PS2 or PS3 has nothing to do with that tax, which was eliminated before either was released. Where are you people getting your information?
Sony did officially support Linux. They had a website for the PS3, that told you how to go about doing it and how it's a supported feature for the PS3. They sold a kit for the PS2 that let you install Linux on it and still maintain the PS2 Linux website and message board (though the board is going down in October after over 7 years of operation)
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there still are PS2's running Linux in tucked away in SCEA/SCEE offices.
How many times must I keep saying this:
It was Yabasic on the PS2 that was an attempt to circumvent the tariff, not LInux. The tariff was eliminated before Linux on the PS2 was ever released in Europe. So Linux on the PS3 has nothing to do with that.
Yes, but the GPU client is the ONLY client that beats the PS3, and it does require a nice GPU that might cost more than the PS3. The PS3 client runs on any ol PS3 and there are a lot more PS3's out there than PC's that can make use of the GPU client. Also, folding@home is installed by default on PS3's. So in bang for the buck the PS3 is still king.
Actually, it was a deciding factor for me, a minor one to be sure. I actually cared more about the PS2 and PS1 compatibility. But I was one of those with a PS2 Linux kit and that things hard drive was going to fail eventually. As you said, running Linux on it is a nice extra that lets me read my e-mail, post to slashdot, play nethack, edit my pictures, and chat on IM and IRC.
No traditional Linux neckbeard for me though, I actually don't want my facial hair, but that...is another story. :-)
Until, what was it, sometime in 2008? The PS3 was the best bang for the buck as a Blu-Ray player. Bonusview, BD-Live, lots of storage for BD-Live content (so you can play lots of discs without having to delete stuff all the time like you might on a standalone with a single 1GB), and a powerful 3.2GHz CPU that makes all the lovely menu's and whatnot, snappy. And then there's all the other things it does. "It only does everything!" (I have a CECHE01 so it DOES do everything including SACD, Linux and PS2 games)
And now, since it's $299, it's the probably best bang for the buck again.
He wants an official dev kit, but they won't give him one since he's an amateur without an office and whatnot. That's his major focus, that and same screen multiplayer on SDTV's.
I agree, anyone who wanted to run Linux on a PS3 probably already has one. The slim model is not aimed at Sony's hardcore fanbase (who probably wanted backwards compatibility and already have a PS3) or open source geeks, but those who don't have one already.
Sony said something similar when they released the slim PS2 without the hard drive bay: "Look, most likely anyone who wanted to play the few hard drive enabled games already has a fat PS2 because they're hardcore fans"
I think I have a better experience, but I use fluxbox on YDL6.2. Besides, after running Linux on a PS2 for 6 years I know pretty well what works on low RAM systems. Though 256MB isn't all that low, that was the standard RAM with XP systems as late as 2003.
Raises hand.
Think about what the majority of non-gamer people use computers for: web browsing, some IMing, e-mail, sending pictures to grandma, maybe using Word, or more likely the word processor in Works.
I can do all that on the PS3 under Linux. And if I want to play games, besides NetHack, one ps3-boot-game-os later I'm back in what Sony calls GameOS
Yes, LInux on the PS3 runs under a hypervisor, but your information is quite incorrect. You have full access to the dual threaded PPC core (with Altivec) and it runs at the full 3.2 GHz speed. You also have full access to 6 SPE's. What you don't have is full access to the RSX, only framebuffer, but that's okay if you only want to do serious number crunching as a researcher. They use off the shelf PS3 hardware.
Standard def is the past, HD is the future Yes, we all know you babysit at a house with standard def that doesn't have multiple computers for multiplayer and you're having trouble getting multiple USB controllers identified or something.
It's simple, computer with HDMI, console with HDMI, HDTV with HDMI. Go to the TV section of your local foo-mart. You'll see lots of HD sets and perhaps a small shelf off to the side with a few SD ones.
We've told you what to do: Do a prototype on your PC, put it in your portfolio and apply for a job at a regular dev house, get some experience behind you, THEN get a small team together if you want and start your own dev house. Travel to Chicago or Silicon Valley or Seattle, just do it.
Never had a scratched disc, perhaps the people complaining that they need "backups" in case they scratch the discs need to take care of their valuable things better.
I have a CECHE01 PS3 with a Linux install on it, I updated to 3.00 without worrying about losing my ability to boot or install a newer Linux distro. The options are still there and they work, just like I still have the ability to virtual PS2 memory cards and play PS2 games even though PS3's newer than my model can't do that.
Where is here? Eastern Europe? Southeast Asia? South America?