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Console Makers Scaling Back Their Push For HD
The big news about game consoles of late are the recent price drops and hardware changes. However, an editorial at GamesIndustry looks into one of the side effects of those updates: decisions by both Microsoft and Sony not to include HDMI cables with their HD-capable consoles, despite the companies' long-standing interest in high-definition gaming.
"From the perspectives of these companies, they want to include the cable which will be of most utility to the largest group of consumers possible, and it's clear that whatever research they have done suggests that the majority of consumers don't need — or rather, can't use — an HDMI cable. Neither firm wants to put an assortment of cables in the box 'just in case' — each additional cable erodes millions from the firm's profitability, after all. ... Supporting evidence that all is not well with the HD transition comes from Epic Games' Mark Rein, who told Eurogamer earlier this summer that 'over half the users who played Gears of War 2 so far do not have HDTVs.' Gears of War is a core gamer franchise, beloved of early adopters and the [so-called] hardcore. If less than half of those users are playing on HDTVs, what must the percentages be like for games like FIFA and Pro Evolution Soccer — let alone Singstar and Buzz, or popular movie tie-in titles?"
I got my first HDTV 4 years ago, how much longer are we supposed to wait for the laggards to catch up?
After they spend all their money on game consoles and games they just can't afford the HDTV. I'm sure none of the gamers have wives to supplement their incomes.
As a an air-conditioning technician, I work in peoples homes, typically six or more a day. From my own admittedly anecdotal experience, the percentage of my customers who have an HDTV set in the livingroom is quite close to 100. That being said, the "hardcore" "core gamer" markets are often teenaged males who happen to have the family's old set in their bedroom with the console connected to it. I'd argue that the percentage of casual gamers that play using an HDTV is higher than that of the "Hardcore" Gamers.
Why don't they just include a notecard in the box suggesting monoprice for all their users HDMI and Component cabling needs?
Well, people that have an air-conditioned home aren't exactly of average income...
Include Component Cables, or S-Video cables. For that matter. Include S-video and Component Video Jacks. I don't like HDMI.
second!
As long as a cheap standard HDMI cable works and i dont have to buy a special-sony/MS/... cable its ok.
It's easier for the console manufacturers to eat a $100 price drop when they can force a large percentage of consumers to shell out another $50+ for a set of cables.
He didn't say whether he works in Arizona or Alaska.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
If you can trick an unsavvy consumer into paying $40+ for a branded HDMI cable that lists "compatibility for PS3" why include it with the system?
Hardcore gamers simply may not be the demographic that buys HDTVs. They might actually be the ones who realize that there's really no big difference in the viewing experience of HDTV, versus Joe BestBuyCustomer who is liable to be talked into buying an HDTV.
I don't need HD to enjoy games. I still find Donkey Kong 64 fun to play.
Someday we'll hit the human carrying capacity. And the band will just play on.
Here in miami they are.
...is the way to go, in general. Monoprice has dirt cheap, excellent cables in any color you could want. They're the anti-Monster cable. That Amazon link to a four-cent cable is a company making money on the shipping cost, though still cheap compared to an HDMI cable you'd buy at a store.
Yep, that's how it's worked for years. the family set is the nice one in the living room but the gaming machine, whether it be an Atari 2600 30 years ago or a PS3/Xbox360 today is hooked up to a second set that isn't as good. Some old cheapo 13" black and white in the old days or some cheapo 13 inch CRT set with RF inputs or composite (with mono sound) now.
Until relatively recently, you couldn't buy quality TV's for bedroom/playroom gaming, small sets were designed on the cheap so you had to do without niceties as stereo sound or s-video, let alone component inputs in the PS2 days (pretty much restricted to 25" sets and larger) Course nowadays you can buy relatively inexpensive 15-19" 1080i/720p sets with HDMI and component inputs that are basically monitors with a tuner.
Including cables is always a problematic waste. I happen to agree with the summary in that not everyone will use HDMI. But then again, not everyone will use component either. I think it is quite reasonable to not include any cables at all though they should provide the header devices that will allow people to connect ordinary, store-available cables. (So the component video cable should basically provide the female RCA connectors)
Almost no printer maker provides the cables unless they are USB. And even in those cases, the USB cables are typically wasted because they are usually too short. Many many moons ago, I once spent some time at CompUSA fielding that precise question "Why don't printer makers provide cables?" My simple answer was "Waste! It would be a waste to provide a cable that is too long or too short and the manufacturer has no way of knowing how a customer will set their device up."
I have seen the more expected installations of xboxes and ps3s where the unit is only inches away from the display unit, but there are also people who want to have the game unit great distances from the display. My brother, for instance, has an overhead projector unit and a drop-down screen with his AV gear in a 19" server rack. Should they waste a cable on him?
Over-all, I think it is better that they slap a big label on the box "Cables not included" and provide a short list of suggestions on how to make things work or something. This is really not much difference from "Batteries not included." I know, quite a few things still come with batteries... especially remote controls. But toys and other gear rarely do.
There is no question that providing the cables is a convenient thing. I bought the "Arcade" version of the 360 that came with HDMI output but without a cable... it didn't puzzle me a bit -- I just went to a local discount store and picked one up for cheap... like $8 or something like that. Works fine. I was quite excited that it even came with HDMI out since my first 360 didn't. I just don't think that "cables not included" is a bad thing if they do it right. Retailers just need to know that they should stock an assortment of cables close to their boxes and their sales staff trained to sell the right cables.
What do you mean there's no way to get sound out of it, it comes with a composite cable, yellow plug for video, red + white plugs for audio. Unless you've got an RF only set, it shouldn't be an issue. If you do have an RF only set the best solution is to get a separate RF modulator. Most stores sell the philips version I think. Plug the yellow cable into that and then that into the TV. Then you plug the audio plugs into a separate player for audio, say a boombox of some kind with RCA inputs. Did that with my PS1 with an RF only set, and then with a small monitor with composite video input but mono sound.
Sony does sell an RF adapter for the Playstation devices but it combines the audio so you get mono sound.
Heck, even in Minneapolis air conditioning's pretty much standard with any house or apartment built in the last couple decades.
The hardcore gaming crowd is well aware of the fact that many HDTVs exhibit a significant amount of input lag (delay caused processing and buffering of the video signal in HDTVs). It's the type of thing a casual gamer might not really be aware of until they play on a different TV because you tend to adjust to whatever you're playing on. Most TVs and monitors don't even publish it among the main specs even though it usually dwarfs response time. It really can have a serious effect on gameplay, particularly in fast-paced FPS games (though Gears is rather slow-paced). I didn't really notice the difference until I started playing on a smaller monitor instead of my larger HDTV.
CRTs are the still best choice for minimizing input lag, but most LCD monitors are decent as well. I'm not sure if this is mainly due to their smaller size or that they're designed for quick response to mouse movement (whereas TVs are designed for viewing, so a few tens of milliseconds extra lag is of no consequence).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
This has nothing to do with "scaling back" high-def or not, its all about giving the retailers a freebie and saving a buck at the same time.
Retailers like Best Buy make huge bank on HDMI cables. They are always pushing $100+ Monster-brand cables on unsuspecting customers who buy DVD and BD players. But even if they can't sell a monster cable for a 5000% markup, they can still usually sell a "premium store brand" cable for 1000% mark-up. By leaving the cable out of the box, the console vendors are just bending their customers over so they are lubed, ready and eager to pay for an over-priced cable. Kind of a "you scratch my back, I'll open the guy's wallet for you" between the console maker and the retailer.
Do yourself and your friends a favor - buy 10 $3 HDMI cables from monoprice.com the next time you need just one cable. Then, whenever you hear about a friend or coworker buying anything HDTV related, offer them one of your monoprice cables for $6 - you'll double your money and your friend will save $20.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
What worries me most is that since a lot of xbox 360 games assume they are played on HDTVs, they have fonts far to small to be read easily on standard definition hardware. This move seems to be somewhat encouraging people to play on SDTV (most won't bother to check which cables are bundled with their console), despite it being really uncomfortable in any game with a significant amount of on-screen text...
Was anyone really gaming at 1600x1200 back then? The top-end card of the time was the nVidia RIVA TNT2. The high-end units had 32MB of RAM, but most had 16. To get a 32bit double buffered framebuffer and a 16bit Z-buffer you'd need 18MB of memory; for a 16bit framebuffer you'd need 11MB. Although the hardware would have had just enough memory bandwidth to do 30fps at that resolution I doubt you'd have hit it with most games. Also, around that time most people were still stuck on 15" monitors with 17" considered the high end with the occasional crazy bastard with a 19" monitor. 1600x1200 wasn't really a sensible resolution unless you had a 19" monitor or larger.
No, back then I remember most people were still gaming at 640x800 or 800x600, with the higher end at 1024x768. (Of course, back then the majority of console gamers were still at 320x240 or something similar...)
In fact back then we were still making sure that our games still ran on the original Voodoo 1 cards (2MB framebuffer, 2MB Texture memory) - partly because there were still a significant number of people with that class of card and partly because we still all loved the Voodoo 1 dearly for having been the first really good 3D card...
Aside from the teenager in his bedroom using the hand-me-down TV because he has no other option, if you can afford $200-300 for a gaming console, you can afford to spend $450-500 and at least get a 32" 1080p Vizio. Definitely include the HDMI cable by default, and ONLY an HDMI cable.
Considering how much a typical HDMI cable costs, I am not surprised that the console manufacturers leave them out of the box - look:
Monster MC 1000HD-2M Ultra-High Speed HDTV HDMI Cable (2 meters) $90.95 (Amazon)
Denon AK-HM500 5M Ultra High Quality HDMI Cable $200 (Denon)
BTW, I did also find this one, but I suspect the price is a typo - I guess it should be $186.90 so don't think you're getting a bargain!!
Cables Unlimited premium 2M HDMI cable $18.69 (Techsourcepro)
AT&ROFLMAO
Nintendo and its much maligned focus on SD for this generation was proven right.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure HD will be standard among all next-generation consoles in 2012.
This is certainly not related to cutting back on HD, but simply cutting back on cost. An HD cable in every console is equal to $$$ if you consider the volume of sales both MS and Sony have. They probably figured that an HD cable is not really a selling point for the console. If someone wants HD, they can just buy the cable separately.
Neither Sony nor Microsoft have been bundling HDMI cables with their consoles for quite some time, if ever, least not in their mainstream mass-market SKUs. The fact that the latest iterations of their consoles don't include HDMI cables is thus wholly irrelevant.
In my state, my income is below the median, but I have air conditioning in my house. It is very nice because of the hot climate, and not really that expensive. Now growing up my parents were well above the median income, and we didn't have AC, because we lived in a cool climate and just opening the windows was all you needed in the summer. We could have afforded it, we just didn't care to.
I think AC ownership more corresponds with where you live and personal preference than income. While it isn't free, it isn't as though they cost all that much.
I'm generally a pretty language-agnostic or even crass kind of guy. I curse like a sailor. But for the love of god can we please stop with the "bending over" and "lubing up" talk when discussing what are really very trivial matters such as retailer dishonesty? It's pretty lame to bilk your customers and nobody really deserves to be treated like that, but it's in no way close to being sodomized. It really isn't. This sort of hyperbole is bordering on a level of absurdity that nearly rivals Godwin's law.
Retailers try to make as much money as they can and a sucker is born every minute. Unscrupulous retail will continue indefinitely with or without the presence of KY jelly or callipygian pruriency. Save the buttfucking talk for big things like federal malfeasance, or I dunno sports fanaticism.
I think it is more about saving money, after all the cables aren't free and they are trying to get prices as low as they can on expensive hardware, and because people don't need or want a "one size fits all" cable. It is a waste of money and of resources to include a cable if people don't need it. What about the people who don't need HDMI, because their gear doesn't support it? There are a lot of TV and receivers without HDMI. What about people who need longer, or shorter, cables?
To me it seems that electronics should come only with the cables needed to operate and for any proprietary connections. Coming with standard cables is silly, because they probalby aren't that useful.
In the computer world, this seems to be the way of doing things. My NIC didn't come with a network cable, my soundcard came with a cable to hook up its external box, but didn't come with audio cables, my videocard didn't come with a DVI or VGA cable, and so on. It was left to me to purchase the cables in the length and of the type I required.
I see the same thing with most high end AV equipment too. It usually comes with power (if applicable) and nothing else. My speakers, amp, and receiver all included either no cables (in the case of speakers) or just power. They figured, correctly, that setups vary and the user could buy what they need. Heck in the case of the receiver I'd hate to get one with all cables included. I don't really want 10 s-video cables just because it happens to have 10 s-video inputs.
This is particularly true in this day and age of budget places like Monoprice. I could understand including cables back when they were harder to get, and maybe you didn't have any option other than a place that overcharged. Especially for things like the RF adapters that old consoles used. However now it is easy for anyone to get cheap cables of any kind they need. As such it makes sense to me that the equipment doesn't include a cable.
So I'm guessing cost/waste is more their motivation than making retailers happy.
Are you a little bit special?
Not only (as the other poster mentioned) are there phono sound outputs on the cable it comes with, but there's an optical out on the back.
comes from Epic Games' Mark Rein, who told Eurogamer earlier this summer that 'over half the users who played Gears of War 2 so far do not have HDTVs
The real problem is in how he got this information.
Every game could include an input lag calibration mode, much like the one in Guitar Hero. Heck, it wouldn't even have to be obvious - just include it with the tutorial mode of the first level, and the user won't even know.
I don't see how console makers are scaling back their push to HD by simply not offering HDMI cables. Sony has never offered them and Microsoft just decided to not include it recently. And given that more and more people have HDTVs I fail to see how standard definition is becoming more relevant.
However, I'm curious to know how much either company is saving by not offering these cables. The cheapest I've seen HDMI cables go for in stores is about $30, which makes no sense to me. I'm convinced HDMI pricing is one of the biggest scams in electronics; apparently once you get into talk of HD it's easy to sucker people into overpaying. Other than the style of the plug I fail to see how they fundamentally differ from a lot of other cables. I've been able to find some good ones online in the range of $10, for version 1.3 cable. Either way, this means that both Sony and Microsoft should be paying far less for them. Although, I suppose even a dollar or two in the volumes these consoles are manufactured at adds up.
It sounds like the author of that story is trying to find meaning where there is none. How do developers accommodate SD, assuming they even care? They make fonts larger and ensure that menus and HUDs fit within SD resolution. And I'm willing to bet an upgraded Wii with HD resolution will arrive sooner than later.
You must live in the arctic. Where I'm at EVERYONE has an AC. It's hard to get by in summer without it (I don't mind like it's inconvenient, I mean like you have people keeling over from heat stroke). Whether you're poor or not generally just decides whether you have a window unit (or two) vs central, not whether or not you have one at all.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
But for the love of god can we please stop with the "bending over" and "lubing up" talk when discussing what are really very trivial matters such as retailer dishonesty?
Nope we can not.
It's called an analogy not an identification.
retail electronic sales::5000% mark-ups
as
prison life::sodomy
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Everyone had a good laugh at Nintendo when they said HD was unnecessary but they were proven right. No surprise there, the company hasbeen around for ages and has the best track record for making a profit and satisfying customers.
But for the love of god can we please stop with the "bending over" and "lubing up" talk when discussing what are really very trivial matters such as retailer dishonesty? It's pretty lame to bilk your customers and nobody really deserves to be treated like that, but it's in no way close to being sodomized. It really isn't. .
Sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
HDMI cables are a huge scam. You do not, however, have them laying around in your toolbox or parts draw, unlike the ubiquitous RCA cable. I recently had to buy one to go with a BluRay player. As the gods of content protections decree that analog shall never see 1080p, I had to get a cable despite analog connections on all gadgets. The first one the nice person at BestBuy showed me was a $120.00 monster cable. I politely declined, and left with a $29.00 cable from WalMart. Yes, I still paid twice too much but didn't want to wait for mail order. My Sat Box feeds one set 1080i with analog cables. No difference between the HDMI and the analog. After analog sunset, we will see this price drop, but for now, the early adopter (who is fading fast here) after 1.5K for the set and $300-$500 for the Blu Ray player, $120 for the cable seems a mere add-on.
Please remember that HDMI is just a digital HD cable technology! The component (YPbPr) cables that still come with the consoles ARE also HD, just analog HD. It still looks great on a HDTV; the biggest difference is that you don't absolutely need a TV made in the last 4 years to benefit from it as CRTs and older LCD/Plasma TVs had the connectors too.
Case in point, my Xbox 360 is plugged to my 52" HDTV through component connectors and the picture is very sharp and vivid. It may not equal HDMI, but most consumers won't actually notice or mind.
Go to Florida. Everyone has AC units form window boxes through to multi-zone systems. Income level or no income has nothing to do with having AC or not. You'd have to find an old abandoned hut in the 'glades to have any chance of finding a property without AC.
Most of the HD resolutions from the consoles are fake anyways, as this article points out. http://insomnia.ac/hardware/the_fake-hd_era/
Eh? $88 GE at Wal-Mart, no fancy LED or remote, just two mechanical switches for power and fan speed, and a mechanical thermostat that you can hear click even if it is unplugged.
So they can sell you a $2.95 HDMI cable for $59.95.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
The Xbox Elite had been HDMI cable included for awhile.
If these games cost a bit less than $50-100 new, those "core gamers" would have enough money left over for a decent HDTV.
Both consoles come with Component cables and the ability to output 1080i video on them, 720p at the very least.
The quality of the graphics from Component or HDMI is really not noticable for the vast majority of people - the REAL problem comes when you sit down and you have your HDTV with a lot of things connected, and your TV comes with 3 HDMI ports and only 1 set of Component inputs, which you may already be using for your DirecTV DVR..
The difference? Your XBox will default to 480p if it's using Component - perhaps even HDMI - and without knocking the settings up, games will play at the lower resolution. The statistics for Gears of War may be down to people just not changing their settings.
There is a big difference in viewing HDTV. I'm sorry if you don't believe that HD is "worth it." Stick with your 640K and let us enjoy 1080p with surround sound.
Just out of curiosity, how many of these households actually received HD programming as well as owned an HD set? I'm willing to bet that most of the Baby Boomer houses with HDTVs in them actually are hooked up to analog cable or to an STB via composite video or even RF, especially since every other TV upgrade in the lives of these customers was a hack to the existing NTSC system, requiring no further upgrades then the set itself.
The huge percentage of HDTVs does not surprise me, given the heavy (and somewhat misleading) marketing, the digital switchover confusion, and the inability to find any SD sets in most big box stores.
Course nowadays you can buy relatively inexpensive 15-19" 1080i/720p sets with HDMI and component inputs that are basically monitors with a tuner.
Um, why? At that size, how could there be much benefit from having 1080i, other then sitting right in front of the TV?
That is an odd thing to get so bent-out-of-shape for. Are you so homophobic that someone can't use common phrases? Especially since it's obvious you know what's being inferred?
You'd probably feel better after a good assraping. Err.
Maybe if you take the average income for the entire world ... but with air conditioners going for under $100 for a one-room window unit, and 10,000 btu window units at $250 (buy one of each and you can cool 1,000 square feet on 90 degree days), if you can't afford air conditioning, you probably also can't afford games.
You don't need to "hook up" an HDTV to anything more complex than a cheap pair of rabbit-ears to receive HD broadcasts - and they might be better quality than what you'll get through your cable company or satellite provider's crappy recompression algorithm. So a lot of them CAN receive HD boradcasts - they just need the TV, not any fancy cable or satellite package.
I live in an area where some channels I couldn't even get via analog come in just fine - 1080 lines HD content, several sub-channels, crystal-clear audio, no fuzzies or blockiness. That's the good thing about digital - it either works, or it doesn't.
Stripping HDMI cables out of the package has nothing to do with the console maker's desire to push HD vs SD. MS and Sony dropped the price of their consoles by $50-100, and to help do that, trimming down on the included cables helps.
More importantly, retailers like Best Buy are much happier when they can sell an overpriced $30 HDMI cable to more people - and MS and Sony need their retailers to be happy. It's possible that retailers will make more profit by selling a $30 HDMI cable than selling a $300 console. It's been this way with printers and USB cables for years.
Of course, more and more people are learning that cables can be much cheaper online...
In my experience, the majority of people who buy HDTVs and plan to make full use of the improved resolution are those who watch sports. Furthermore, it seems like a reasonable assumption that those who enjoy watching sports are more likely to play sports titles, instead of Gears of War. So when the person interviewed in the article says "imagine what it will be like for FIFA," I think he's got it backwards; I think you will find greater use for included HDMI cables for that population.
Nice troll :-) There's a HUGE difference. Just like there is for gaming - especially with a Wii, where you have to move around a lot. Try snowboarding in front of a 50" that does decent up-scaling. It's NOT the same as standing in front of a tiny screen.
Besides, people don't have to be "talked into" buying an HDTV. It's an "I know I want one - and if it's better than my neighbors, so much the better!"
Of course, if you've waited this long, you can get something MUCH better than what your neighbor bought a few years ago, for MUCH less.
I'd like to know how many of these HD users are even configured correctly.
It seems like the vast majority of casual gamers that I know have never even managed to configure their consoles correctly for high definition anyway. For example, my cousin who had a 46" plasma TV with an Xbox 360 connected via composite and running non-widescreen.
Maybe console makers should provide an idiot-proof method of configuring the screen before they push HD so hard.
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." -Robert H. Goddard
I never said that they couldn't receive an HD broadcast, just that most of them are hooked up to receive the SD broadcast, and probably most of the TV owners think that what they are watching is in fact HD. Just because they have the hardware doesn't mean they set it up correctly, and remember 18% of customers can't tell the difference anyway, so they probably will remain blissfully unaware until someone notices the hookup and tells them.
I mentioned the Baby Boomer generation in particular because they lived through the color transition, during which the purchase of a color set gave them the exact same channels they had before in glorious color, while making it painfully obvious which stations were still broadcasting in black and white. The digital transition is far different, requiring separate digital channels and only offering (compared to color anyway) far more subtle improvements in the picture. Also said generation is getting older, and their vision is starting to fade.
MOD THIS UP! I've always had the thought that LCD TV's were just a stepping stone for innovation.
I don't care to dig up all the old discussions (from about 7 years ago) we had on slashdot about HDTV plasma versus LCD, and how LCD was essentially "just good enough" because it was so much cheaper. I know we are begining to see 120Hz LCD TVs, so I don't think the refresh argument holds anymore, but from the previous comments I'm guessing LCD still doesn't stand up to plasma TVs.
I haven't looked at new TVs in years, but a few years ago plasma TVs still looked real in comparison to any LCD TV.
Yes, of course you're right.
But have you actually looked at the prices for Monster Cable at Best Buy? $70 to $100 for a 4-foot HDMI cable. I'm not sure what sort of analogy is appropriate, but it's got to be one that matches the adjective "obscene".
The same set will tune in both HD and ST content, so you can compare the two signals side-by-side ... and the difference between SD and full HD is like night and day.
Having lived through the black-and-white to colour transition, and now through the SD to HD transition, I can tell you that the "vision is starting to fade" thing works contrary to how you would think - older people benefit from sharper content. (Then again, I'm spoiled ... I'm typing this on dual 26" 1920x1200 lcds, and my tv is a 50" 60hz plasma - HD is a lot easier on the eyes).
That's what you get for being a bottom-feeder. If you have trouble shelling out a little extra cash for a TV that isn't a piece of shit, you don't need a game console. Man up, finish your GED, and get a real job.
LOL @ still calling it a "standard" TV. ^_^
I can order HDMI cables at about $1/ft (and the manufacturer and retailer both profit from this!), and the ones in stores are $25/ft. There can be no proper description of 25x markups that is not laced heavily with profanity.
Try applying that same multiplier to other everyday items and then imagine your reaction if you ran across them at that price in a store. 2 liter soda (normally $1) for $25? $6 paperback book for $150? Gallon of gas for $75? Digital wristwatch for $500? Barebones no-frills car for $250,000? Fast food combo meal for >$30? Vending machine candy bar for >$12?
People, this is getting silly. The whole issue boils down to one thing: COGS. The 'cost of goods and services' is the primary factor when Sony and Microsoft decide what to put in the box. Console hardware is often sold at a loss, at least for the first year or more after release. While Sony and Microsoft both have huge buying power, they still can't justify including a relatively expensive cable that not everyone will need. Let the consumer decide what cable length and quality they need. Sure, Monster cable mentality is BS that lingers with us from the analog era, but so what? Let retailers sell whatever they can. It's far better to put the choice in the consumer's hands and let the smarter ones go out and buy a budget HDMI cable of the appropriate length.
Well, a lot of people do have their HDTV too far away from their sitting position. The real advantage is the smaller HDTV's often have VGA in as well as HDMI, meaning they can also have a PC hooked up to them. Or you can put them on a desk and use the versatility of the older PS3's to run LInux.
...they never included those cables. I bought a launch day PS3...guess what?? No HDMI cable!!!!!
Bingo! You are 100% correct. I base this statement on my own experience in retail, and that of many of my friends.
The real reason that printers don't include USB cables (or Parallel before them), DVD players and consoles and televisions don't include HDMI cables is that if they do the retailers will flat-out refuse to stock them. The reason? People price-shop for the "big-ticket" portion of their purchase, but don't price-compare accessories. The big-ticket portion is usually sold near cost or even at a small loss, while all of the profit is made on the cables, ink, blank disks, mousepads, etc.
In fact, salespeople are often trained to steer customers away from the "big purchase" if they're not going to buy the accessories - because the retailer almost always loses money once the cost of keeping the merchandise in inventory, the overhead of the store, salespeople, etc. are figured in. There's nothing really immoral or unethical about this - they have the right to sell whatever they want to whomever they want, but it's more a way of making a quick buck rather than developing a high-quality, long-term, trust-based relationship with the customer.
These days I actually own a retail store - we sell quality merchandise with no stupid pricing gimmicks. Our customers love us and our conversion and retention rates are phenomenal. The funny thing is that one of your highest costs in retail is actually getting a customer to buy from you the first time. Your second highest cost is a dissatisfied customer who makes people avoid you. That you would do anything but try to give your customer the best treatment is so stupid it makes my head hurt just thinking about it. But hey, if other companies want to run their businesses that way it's just more money for me in the long run.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
A basic window unit doesn't require and HVAC tech. In some areas (where I live for example) central air systems are seen as a ridiculous luxury. If you live in a cool or temperate climate with older homes, an AC system ever requiring a visit from a tech is nearly unheard of.
Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
I bought the "Arcade" version of the 360 that came with HDMI output
And this is actually another good point. It's not just that the consoles don't come with the cables,but for the 360, they often don't even have the connectors. Most of the earlier 360's I've seen only have the composite/YUV port+adaptor and NO HDMI, mine included. However, that being said the YUV cable gives a beautiful picture on a 42" 1080p TV. I'm not sure if the YUV signal is 1080p, but I'll be comparing it sometime soon as the old console RROD'ed and I'm replacing it with one that happens to have HDMI.
While the "lubed up" discussion is perhaps a bit more visual its predecessors, I fail to see why you find this is any more offensive than the term "they've got you bent over the barrel" etc etc. Essentially it just dumbs down to: they've got you in a semi-helpless and very uncomfortable position, with the lube analogy used to emphasis rather than describing actual sexuality.
You don't send air conditioning technicians to people with those. People who call in a technician likely have much higher end models.
You don't have to live in the arctic to get through the summer without A/C. I've lived in Detroit, Toronto and Portland all without central A/C through many summers. People only die of heat stroke during heat waves. But I survived a recent heat wave in Portland with temperatures up to 110F without A/C (only a fan).
Don't act like just because you and your friend have A/C that everyone does. I grew up in an upper middle-class home and always assume that *every* house had central air, but that's not the cause. It's a naive assumption that just because you and your anecdotal evidence say that everyone had A/C or just because you live in an area like Pheonix where everyone *has* A/C that is represents every place and everyone.
The price drop makes the console more competitive. Without an HDMI cable in the pakcage the customer will have to buy an HDMI cable (hopefully from the vendor); these are cheap to make but retail for about £10/$10 IIRC. Console maker and vendor both win.
Is this a rhetorical question?
Out of curiosity, which store is that and where are you located? Are you a general electronics shop or specialized?
...
...is what I was going to ask before checking out your homepage. You know it's bad when you're stoked because you thought you found a new place to geek out at, and are bummed when you find pics of gorgeous women in bathing suits instead. :/
In what way is air-conditioning a luxury ? A room-sized A/C costs less than a modest HDTV! Only in the U.S. would TV come before comfort...
From my own anecdotal evidence, I don't think we can realistically draw any correlation between hardcore gamers and HDTV. I've known mad gamers with small TVs, I've know mad gamers with huge TVs (and no furniture!). I have people with big houses and shiny 60" plasmas that are quite content to play the occasional game of NHL 2009 via a the DVI output on their PC, and I'm sure they've played bejeweled on it too, they're just too shallow to admit it.
The thing is, gamers aren't in love with big TVs, they're in love with games. The TV is just a required accessory, not the focus of their hobby.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Or you could just use the versatility of an older PC to run Linux, on a regular ass monitor that costs a third as much.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Console game developer here.
I think "Fake" is too harsh a word for it. Keep in mind that all xbox 360 games MUST use some kind of full-screen antialiasing technique, because it is a certification requirement from Microsoft. Nearly all of them use the built-in 4x MSAA to satisfy this. So even with a rendertarget with only 600 lines in it, you're getting 2400 samples vertically. After posteffects and the hardware scaling, most games will not have any noticable aliasing artifacts ("jagged edges"). That is, after all, the purpose of that certification requirement--to make sure there are no jaggies.
The console lets you (the user) select the output resolution you want to send to your TV or other display device. (I use 720p myself, because I use a 1024x768 VGA projector to play games on my wall).
It then lets the game render at whatever resolution it wants, and the excellent built-in hardware upscaler converts the game's framebuffer into something that can be sent to the display. Most games use a fixed resolution for their framebuffer so that they will have predictable framerate and performance (you wouldn't want your 30fps shooter to drop down to 20fps just because you picked 1080p instead of 720p, would you??). The story on the PS3 is similar.
Those teens' parents probably don't want the console hooked up to their beloved TV.
My Dad was into electronics, so it wasn't an issue with him - but we had a ludicrous argument about the benefits of an HTPC, and after 3 years of never getting anywhere, I gave up.
Is Beverley Hills really a representative sample of the population, though? :)
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
If BestBuy needed the margin on HDMI cables they'd stop including one for free in their house-brand, Insignia, HD camcorder. Microsoft's removal of the technical certification requirement that enforced minimum resolution at 720p in no way benefits BestBuy. Your theory is pretty easily refuted.
Usually, I just give my friends the $3 cables or if I'm in hard times, I give them the cable for $4 to include price of shipping.
Huh? We have a Toshiba 40" 1080P LCD in the kids bedroom and a Sharp AQUOS 46" 1080P in the game room now. The PS3 is hooked up to the 46", but it used to be on the Toshiba until it was moved a few months ago when we bought the 46" to replace it. (the family room has a 46" Sony XBR2 bought 2 1/2 years ago for a stupid amount of money, but we have enjoyed it) Who owns a 19" TV anymore? We haven't had one of those in 15 years...
People who don't have or don't want to spend that kind of money, or don't have the space to put 3(!) 40+ inch HDTV's. You are not the norm, my friend.
> Or you could just use the versatility of an older PC to run Linux, on a
> regular ass monitor that costs a third as much.
I use my computer monitor (24"/16:9) for the occasional HD-gaming on the PS3.
Works well if put on the living room table in front of the couch. Beats the
40"/4:3 Trinitron TV but involves manual effort to move the stuff (incl.
boxes) around before and after gaming. Cheap solution thought hat works until
the far away day when we buy a widescreen flat-panel HD-TV. And no...not in a
particular rush about it. TV's get better, cheaper, less energy-consuming each
year so time works for us.
> Beats the 40"/4:3 Trinitron TV
Make that 27"/4:3 Trinitron...
Do yourself and your friends a favor - buy 10 $3 HDMI cables from monoprice.com the next time you need just one cable.
That's exactly what I did. And it didn't work.
Bought four more cables (different brands) and none of them worked, too much signal loss.
Finally bought a $150 cable and it (sixth cable) worked.
Thank you for your advise.
Bought four more cables (different brands) and none of them worked, too much signal loss.
Finally bought a $150 cable and it (sixth cable) worked.
If the $3 cables from monoprice and four other brands weren't working for you, then the problem was with your equipment, not the cables.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I agree. It doesn't make any sense to me because I love being fucked, whereas I don't enjoy the horrendous mark-ups on cables and accessories.
Rather than scaling back, it may simply be the recognition that HD has become so ubiquitous that HDMI is no longer an exotic connector that a consumer won't be able to find if it is not included.
Granted you can get cheap cables from retailers like GameStop (and I had to for component support on my Wii)...I think a better idea is for console manufactures to do like many said and not include ANY cables...but rather, since so many sell their own connection solutions...have an instant rebate voucher for a cable. The console makers save by not including useless cables...and consumer gets the connection option they want the most. If they want additional options...then they can purchase additional cables. However, I'm sure there are packaging cost concerns and redemption issues. However, if they could solve those problems, it'd make everyone's life a bit easier.
I don't see the news here.. HP printers have not come with a USB cable (or previously, a parallel cable) for YEARS. This does not mean they think people plug the printer into power and then just never hook it up to a PC. It's just a way to shave a dollar or so off the costs.
Pikey Xbox owners might not be able to afford HD TV on their Walmart wages, but proper gamers will be enjoying HD gaming just fine.
Uncharted Amongst Thieves says hi....
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/07/hands-on-uncharted-2-single-player/
WipoutHD says Hi...
The same set will tune in both HD and ST content, so you can compare the two signals side-by-side ... and the difference between SD and full HD is like night and day.
Apparently not to everyone. I have repeatedly demonstrated the different formats of the same channel on the same set to some people and the only thing they notice is the pillerboxing of the SD broadcast.
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-40RV525R-40-Inch-1080p-HDTV/dp/B001TA1DOC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1252484927&sr=8-1 $650 is too much? If you can afford a PS3, you can afford this TV.