Sony and Nintendo Step Up Anti-Piracy Efforts

Edge reports that Sony and Nintendo are both expanding their anti-piracy operations in an effort to reduce piracy rates on the PSP and the DS respectively. Nintendo has hired Neil Boyd, who handled anti-piracy operations for Warner Brothers, to help them demonstrate their "willingness to take action against criminals who are making money out of the infringement of games developers' copyright." Sony has taken a more direct approach, choosing to alter the hardware used in the PSP Go so that things like the Pandora battery can no longer be used to alter the firmware.

Comments

Strategy?

[Starcom8826]

What, Warner Bros. anti-piracy strategy? Suing people?

Re:Strategy?

[Fluffeh]

What, Warner Bros. anti-piracy strategy? Suing people?

Warner Bros. anti-piracy strategy is suing people. What?

There, fixed it for you.

Re:Strategy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Warner Bros. anti-piracy strategy is suing people. What?

Found out that Warner Bros. anti-piracy strategy is... *wears sunglasses* eating kittens. YEEEAAHHHH!!!

There, all true..

And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[marcansoft]

No, really. The've shown that they believe that Wii homebrew == Wii piracy (having attacked generic homebrew almost exclusively, not just piracy tools, and considering that they harassed us when we attempted to notify them of a security issue), and yet it's been over 5 months since the latest security-related update. Somehow I don't get the felling that Nintendo is interested in combating Wii piracy very much (it's not like they've done a whole lot to stop modchips either).

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because they make so much money on selling systems and accessories. DS profits are primarily software related.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Toronto Drywall Company

Is this the new rickroll?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[kawabago]

Why don't they open source the game software and sell subscriptions to the server. That way the more the game is shared the more people will buy subscriptions to the server. Also they can offload development costs partly onto the community. It's a win win situation. The more 'piracy' the better. Oh, too simple. Sorry.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

It's even simpler now - they take a cut from any game sold on PSN and there is no subscription, this way the more game is sold the more money they get and as for the development - they don't offload its cost partly, they offload it fully.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Kalriath]

Sounds very Apple-y

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt open source games will work. Why? Have a look at custom maps in Warcraft 3, the normal maps created from the editor and saved from the editor can usually be edited by anyone. That is, someone makes a map they upload it and the person who downloads it can edit the map. This resulted in people modifying the map and making silly changes, such as over powered items etc. Even worse is when people upload these maps without changing the title or description, thus confusing everyone that they are playing the same map even though it has been modified. The problem got so bad that the community had to create tools that made it impossible to edit these maps. The same will happen to open source games. You will have people modifying the games to be easier or just plane silly (like adding in a gun that will kill everyone in one shot).

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Veyasu]

While I do agree that in WC3 this is a problem with some maps (Footman Frenzy). But others like Dota doesn't seem to have this problem at all. But. Opening a WC3 map in the stock editor is quite a bit different than downloading the source, required tools and everything needed to compile a game, editing the source to add a "hack", compiling it, and then getting people to download that bogus version of the game. So your point is moot.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[tepples]

I understand "piracy" to refer to infringement of a copyright, patent, or trademark. So:

The've shown that they believe that Wii homebrew == Wii piracy (having attacked generic homebrew almost exclusively, not just piracy tools, and considering that they harassed us when we attempted to notify them of a security issue)

I seem to remember using Google to search for the phrase "homebrew is piracy" and ending up on a page that argues that Nintendo holds one or more patents on the DS Game Card protocol. If this is true, then homebrew devices infringe patents.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. Here's the original source of the music and footage in that video.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[ookaze]

No, really. The've shown that they believe that Wii homebrew == Wii piracy (having attacked generic homebrew almost exclusively, not just piracy tools, and considering that they harassed us when we attempted to notify them of a security issue), and yet it's been over 5 months since the latest security-related update. Somehow I don't get the felling that Nintendo is interested in combating Wii piracy very much (it's not like they've done a whole lot to stop modchips either).

So somewhat, you not getting the feeling that Nintendo is interested in combating piracy equates to "They've given up on Wii piracy"? Seriously?
Looks like complete BS to me.
The fact is that the only thing separating the homebrew tools from piracy tools is what the user deem moral or not. The exact same tools used for homebrew are used for piracy.

I use the homebrew tools, and really, if it wasn't for the fact that my play time on a game is not registered in the Wii when I use them, I would always use the homebrew tools to play my games, that I have all ripped, just in case. And you can see how tiny of an argument I have already to not use these tools (but they're still installed).
Once someone starts continuously using the homebrew tools, all hell breaks loose, as they will be more and more tempted to download some games "just to see".
The sole thing preventing me from downloading some games and then play them on the Wii is in my head. If I didn't have enough money or if I played lots of games all the time, I guarantee I would have downloaded lots of games already.

So to me it's no wonder that for Nintendo, Wii homebrew == Wii piracy because that's exactly what it is. You can't scan people's heads to make a difference between pirates and legitimate homebrew users. And I'm sure there are far more pirates than homebrew users.
If Nintendo didn't put region lock in their console, I wouldn't even have considered homebrew. This is one of their mistake. That's the sole thing that pushed me to install homebrew.

Then again, modchipping your console is on another level entirely, and so I understand that they don't get out of their way to stop these people, because the return on investment is far too ridiculous.

Even installing homebrew is not for the faint of heart, and most people don't even understand how all of that work and don't care. I'm even sure that most people installing homebrew on their console don't understand at all what they're doing, which is evidenced by all the video tutorials I've seen people made just to install homebrew.

All of this is far more difficult than buying a flash card for the Nintendo DS.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[xtracto]

That's because they make so much money on selling systems and accessories. DS profits are primarily software related.

Nintendo profits from that, but 3rd party developers profit only from the number of games sold.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[xtracto]

The fact is that the only thing separating the homebrew tools from piracy tools is what the user deem moral or not. The exact same tools used for homebrew are used for piracy.

Nope, at least not in the case of the Wii. The main homebrew community has been very cautious (and clear) on separating the war3z-related homebrew from the "original" stuff. For the later you can check wiibrew.org you will find a lot of legitimate homebrew applications and games that do not empower copyright infringement (I agree that emulators are a gray area, specially in the light of the VC)

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[tepples]

For the later you can check wiibrew.org you will find a lot of legitimate homebrew applications and games that do not empower copyright infringement

Copyright no, trademark yes. There's a falling block game on the Homebrew Browser whose banner uses The Tetris Company's logo without authorization. (Even my own falling block game for FCE Ultra GX takes care not to use any Tetris trademarks.) To whom should I report this before Tetris does?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[marcansoft]

"Piracy" is copyright infringement only to most people.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[marcansoft]

The author would be a good idea. Or just use the talk page on the wiki.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[tepples]

So to me it's no wonder that for Nintendo, Wii homebrew == Wii piracy because that's exactly what it is.

Nintendo states on warioworld.com that it categorically declines to deal with students, hobbyists, and microISVs: one needs a dedicated office and a track record of published titles. So for which platform should students and hobbyists be building a portfolio to start a company? Most PC monitors are just too small for four people.

Even installing homebrew is not for the faint of heart

Bannerbombing a Wii into the Homebrew Channel installer involves loading files onto an SD card, putting it in the front of your console, and going into the Wii settings. And you probably already "voided the warranty" by owning your console for 13 months.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[marcansoft]

The fact is that the only thing separating the homebrew tools from piracy tools is what the user deem moral or not. The exact same tools used for homebrew are used for piracy.

Ha ha no. A homebrew tool is one that takes an executable file and runs it. A piracy tool is an executable file that fucks up half of your system, has a 50% chance of bricking it, then plays pirated disc games or installs pirated VC games. Piracy apps are specific, considerably sleazier, lower quality, and more dangerous than most homebrew. They also tend to violate software licenses left and right. Not to mention that one of the main guys behind them has a habit of ripping off other people's work and releasing it as his own, adding his sponsor's banners and making a profit.

Tools to play copied games aren't "homebrew tools", they're piracy tools. You're confusing "backups" with homebrew. "Backup" tools were developed for and by pirates, and the "backup" argument is a thin screen that they hide behind. I'd say less than 1% of their users truly use the tools for only backing up games. VC piracy utilities have a 0% legitimate use rate, since VC games can already be backed up to an SD card using Nintendo's system menu.

As for modchips, consider this: they are hugely popular and there is a huge industry behind them (they are more popular than softmods), and yet all of them are trivially detectable by software. All Nintendo could do is push out a software update and instantly break every single modchip out there, causing mayhem among the piracy community. One little update. And yet they haven't done so.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[jedidiah]

> So for which platform should students and hobbyists be building a portfolio to start a company? Most PC monitors are just too small for four people.

Use the DVI/HDMI port that comes with many PCs now and plug the PC into the TV.

Use many of the Linux/Windows hacks to enable WiiMote access on the PC.

The untrained and the unwary might mistake my mini for my wii.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[RiotingPacifist]

thats interesting but not really piracy, as you have previously stated you have pretty weird views on what piracy is, to the rest of us its simple:
are you playing wii games, that you did not purchase legitimatly?

patent (if they're even valid) and trademark (if your not passing it of as the original who cares) abuse don't count as piracy, they count as *shock* patent/trademark abuse.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[tepples]

thats interesting but not really piracy, as you have previously stated you have pretty weird views on what piracy is, to the rest of us its simple:
are you playing wii games, that you did not purchase legitimatly?

I am typing this into a web browser that I did not purchase legitimately. That's because Mozilla Firefox is free software.

patent (if they're even valid)

Tetris is 25 years old; no patent there.

and trademark (if your not passing it of as the original who cares) abuse

Just calling it "Tetris" might be borderline genericide (cf. Xerox copiers and Kleenex tissue), but using the logo points toward abuse.

don't count as piracy, they count as *shock* patent/trademark abuse.

Google turns up thousands of results for the phrase "drug piracy". How would one explain that if the term "piracy" is limited to copyright?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[psm321]

Nintendo states on warioworld.com that it categorically declines to deal with students, hobbyists, and microISVs: one needs a dedicated office and a track record of published titles. So for which platform should students and hobbyists be building a portfolio to start a company? Most PC monitors are just too small for four people.

Xbox 360. Seriously, I don't really like Microsoft, and I don't really like xbox (or playstation for that matter) games in general (i tend to like more playful games, http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in-games-campaign-launched.html)

But, one thing Microsoft is good about with the 360/xbox live is allowing independent content (or at least so I hear). I've seen other people trying out games from the market with lots of interesting gameplay concepts that you would probably not see in a mainstream game

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[MrSands]

Dota doesn't have that problem because DoTA is protected by the tools that the parent has mentioned. Try opening a DoTA map and see if you can edit it, you can't. And I also disagree, the tools for compiling open source applications tend to also be open source (gcc). A script kiddie with basic knowledge of the programming language use can easily modify the game to include hacked weapons, distribute the game via a torrent, rapidshare, megaupload or other file sharing program. It will be a nightmare.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's ELSPA's tack in the UK, according to a letter sent by an ELSPA representative to trade magazine MCV.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[geminidomino]

Google turns up thousands of results for the phrase "drug piracy". How would one explain that if the term "piracy" is limited to copyright?

Because the term "piracy" is not, as GP claimed, limited to copyright. It is, actually, not limited to anything. It's an emotive rhetorical device used to vilify whoever a big megacorp wants vilified, be it copyright infringers or rival pharmaceutical companies.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

I am typing this into a web browser that I did not purchase legitimately. That's because Mozilla Firefox is free software.

Are Wii games free software? No? Then you defeated your own argument. Wii games belong to a group of non-free software, so you must purchase a legitimate copy of a Wii game or else you are either pirating it or buying a pirated copy of it. Before you counter with homebrew Wii games, they are not officially licensed games: they are homebrew games that just happen to run on the Wii.

Tetris is 25 years old; no patent there.

Agreed, but beside the point.

Just calling it "Tetris" might be borderline genericide (cf. Xerox copiers and Kleenex tissue), but using the logo points toward abuse.

Agreed, but beside the point.

Google turns up thousands of results for the phrase "drug piracy". How would one explain that if the term "piracy" is limited to copyright?

We're mincing words here. Piracy used to (and in some areas, still does) refer to the forceful hijacking of a vessel at sea, mainly referring to merchant ships. This metaphor was extended to the hijacking of a piece of software from the control of its owner and trading it illegitimately. The way I understand the discussion, it is understood that our context is software, so we simply call it "piracy" as shorthand.

The act that we call "software piracy" refers to what most of us believe is the only valid system of protection for software: copyright. Software patents are rubbish IMO, and the Bilski case might make that a legal fact. I don't think that the formula for a Mario game is patented at this time but assuming it is, if someone told you that Secret Maryo Chronicles (you can probably tell what this is a FOSS clone of) is an attempt at pirating a Mario game, would you honestly believe that?

As for trademark, it is just surface polish and branding: there's absolutely no difference in function between Micropolis and SimCity, but see how fast you get slapped with trademark infringement if you try to make a SimFoo game. As you said, you can't "pirate" free software, so something as simple as a name shouldn't be labeled as pirating copies of SimCity when you were free to distribute it under the name Micropolis. Again, would you honestly believe that a name is the fine line between legitimate free software and piracy?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[tepples]

Before you counter with homebrew Wii games, they are not officially licensed games: they are homebrew games that just happen to run on the Wii.

marcansoft's post is about these homebrew games, and whether or not distributing tools to run homebrew games should be termed "piracy".

if someone told you that Secret Maryo Chronicles (you can probably tell what this is a FOSS clone of) is an attempt at pirating a Mario game, would you honestly believe that?

Is Secret Maryo Chronicles anything like The Great Giana Sisters, which did get pulled under a threat from Nintendo?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[trytoguess]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need material from the legit (or at least morally ok/grey by my books) homebrew sites in order to play "backup" games?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[Aphoxema]

Maybe we should start calling the megacorps the pirates and see how that turns out...

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[jroysdon]

Uhm, I'm was a homebrew virgin before this weekend. I followed one guide and extracted 1 zip file on an SD card and had homebrew up and working, then backed up my NAND (system memory), and started downloading all the GPL free (non-pirated) games for the HBC via the Homebrew Browser. Backing up my NAND took more time than anything, and I think I was done in less than 30 minutes and trying out everything available via the Homebrew Browser.

It may have been hard before some of the current tools, but literally it was following a guide of 10 steps, dragging and dropping files to an SD card, and then pointing with my Wiimote.

I won't download any games I don't own, mostly because I need to be an example for my kids, and also because if I want a game that bad, I will prioritize it before other games and buy it. We're the type of household that waits a year or so and picks up games for $15-20 at Costco or used at Gamestop. My kids have paid for one Wiiware download game themselves from their allowance money (3 of my 4 kids all chipped in).

I've seen the videos and the steps for getting all the "backup" stuff going to play all the games from USB HDD, seen the huge sites with all the Wiiware and Virtual console and full disc games, but I won't touch it. It's far to easy to go down that road, and once you do, there is no turning back.

However, I am still tempted to get the backup stuff working on an old USB HDD and putting all of our games on it. It's not like we have a ton of games (maybe 20), but I'm mostly concerned about wear and tear on the discs. My kids are pretty well trained in handling DVDs, CDs, game discs, but company often is not. I'd only backup and run from USB HDD the stuff I own, but the problem with that I hear is that the way those loaders work is "illegal" even if you are using it for backup. Somehow the HBC claims not to be "illegal," but it still voids your warranty.

I'm also fine with downloading any emulator games that we find at used game stores or whatever and buy. First sale doctrine keeps that legal (I'm not a lawyer), and basically having the physical media legally purchased in hand allows me to play it however I want.

What I wish Nintendo and Homebrew would pair up and go after is the folks selling the stuff, or the folks selling Wii loaded with all sorts of "hot" stuff:
http://washingtondc.kijiji.com/c-For-sale-Video-games-consoles-Nintendo-Wii-Homebrew-TONS-OF-ACCESSORIES-GAMES-W0QQAdIdZ146395948

Perhaps the ad above is legit, but most likely those 40+ games and all the other games are pirated. Only Nintendo could prove that based on online sales records (or if the person had their credit card statements showing those dollar amounts paid to Nintendo for all the downloaded games).

Nintendo has the money and the lawyer muscle and could help the Homebrew Channel go after the folks selling their tools (the HBC is not GPL, but is free, but as it is not GPL you may not sell it). Nintendo probably can't sue the folks selling the HBC and tools (since they don't own the copywrite on that software), but they would be happy to see those places shut down since they're all about promoting piracy (and don't really care about homebrew), but the HBC folks can sue them (since it is their code illegally for sale), but don't have the time or lawyer/money to do it.

My kids are younger, so perhaps older kids wouldn't like the free homebrew games, but we've been enjoying Horror Vacui, Mahjongg Wii, Yahtzwii, Helium boy, Super Mario War Wii, Masteroids, Kobo Deluxe (my current addiction, stuck on Stage 50, the huge cube), OpenTyrianWii, and WiiSPACE.

Playing DVDs and watching Youtube is cool on the Wii. I don't get why Nintendo doesn't license that and blow AppleTV and that sort out of the water since they've got a huge marketshare? I don't have a major need for this as we've already got a killer MythTV

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[ookaze]

The fact is that the only thing separating the homebrew tools from piracy tools is what the user deem moral or not. The exact same tools used for homebrew are used for piracy.

Ha ha no. A homebrew tool is one that takes an executable file and runs it. A piracy tool is an executable file that fucks up half of your system, has a 50% chance of bricking it, then plays pirated disc games or installs pirated VC games.

Except for the fact that you have to use these tools to even be able to launch any homebrew application.
The fact is that you can't run any homebrew on the Wii without first taking the risks you're talking about.
It has been streamlined, but you're basically modifying the Wii's firmware, which is were the risk of bricking your console comes from.
The latest homebrew enablers that bypass the latest Nintendo patches are even more dangerous. So I don't buy what you say.
I agree that to play games from HDD requires installing a different firmware, but that's basically the same thing you're doing when installing the homebrew channel.
And to install the homebrew channel, ironically you also need to use the VC utility that can be used for piracy.
My point is that the same methods are used for enabling homebrew and enabling piracy, and Nintendo has no time to waste to differentiate who is doing what with these tools.

Tools to play copied games aren't "homebrew tools", they're piracy tools. You're confusing "backups" with homebrew. "Backup" tools were developed for and by pirates, and the "backup" argument is a thin screen that they hide behind. I'd say less than 1% of their users truly use the tools for only backing up games. VC piracy utilities have a 0% legitimate use rate, since VC games can already be backed up to an SD card using Nintendo's system menu.

I agree with you, except on the part that these tools to play games from disc where only done to play pirated games.

As for modchips, consider this: they are hugely popular and there is a huge industry behind them (they are more popular than softmods), and yet all of them are trivially detectable by software. All Nintendo could do is push out a software update and instantly break every single modchip out there, causing mayhem among the piracy community. One little update. And yet they haven't done so.

The problem is that Nintendo is customers first, and would never take the risk of destroying legitimate consoles. Also, the history of Nintendo in the USA is riddled from the start with lawsuits, and they're very cautious about them, thus why they even warn users of these modchips that an update can brick their hardware.
Nintendo integrated very well the american way of doing business, since bitter Atari slowed them down considerably when they saw Nintendo succeed where Atari failed.
Again, I can't blame Nintendo for this.

I understand every one of these moves that Nintendo make, and I think they're all legitimate.
This despite the fact that I could no longer play my foreign games (like No More Heroes with blood instead of coins) if homebrew would no longer work.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[ookaze]

It may have been hard before some of the current tools, but literally it was following a guide of 10 steps, dragging and dropping files to an SD card, and then pointing with my Wiimote.

The big problem is that it's so easy now.
Anyway, my point is that the same countermeasure used against piracy work against homebrew, because homebrew use the same flaws to get installed, than piracy tools. Nintendo has no way and no incentive to differentiate who is who.

However, I am still tempted to get the backup stuff working on an old USB HDD and putting all of our games on it. It's not like we have a ton of games (maybe 20), but I'm mostly concerned about wear and tear on the discs. My kids are pretty well trained in handling DVDs, CDs, game discs, but company often is not. I'd only backup and run from USB HDD the stuff I own, but the problem with that I hear is that the way those loaders work is "illegal" even if you are using it for backup. Somehow the HBC claims not to be "illegal," but it still voids your warranty.

I've installed the tool for the same reason, and would actually use it if it registrered my game time and other things like games played from the DVD drive.
That's not for me to decide if HBC is legal or not though, and I don't care.

Playing DVDs and watching Youtube is cool on the Wii. I don't get why Nintendo doesn't license that and blow AppleTV and that sort out of the water since they've got a huge marketshare? I don't have a major need for this as we've already got a killer MythTV setup, but I love that the Wii is ultra portable. Not that we'd take it anywhere, as if we're going on vacation, we can take a break from all of that.

Nintendo is the sole console company left, thus why they don't concentrate on giving you features that don't push you back to games, or protect them from being disrupted by other games company (like those that make flash games). That's why they won't develop a strong offering in the TV space. They're competing with every other entertainment business: TV, theaters, movies, music, photos, ... Thus why they will try to make you use your Wii as soon as you want to have one of these entertainment, but won't put the full feature on their console.
If their console has an exposure every time you want some entertainment, you will go back to play games more often, something like that.

Anyway, my point is that one can't say the Homebrew channel and homebrew in general == piracy any more than BitTorrent, a web browser, ftp or Google does for that matter.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that there's no incentive for Nintendo to see it any other way.
To take your analogy, crowbars have many uses yes, but when most of the crowbar users use them to break in your property, and you don't have any way to separate those that broke in from the others, what do you do?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[marcansoft]

Except for the fact that you have to use these tools to even be able to launch any homebrew application.
The fact is that you can't run any homebrew on the Wii without first taking the risks you're talking about.

You do NOT need to take those risks just to run homebrew, and running homebrew is pretty much completely safe these days (there are always some theoretical risks risks, of course, but the practical incidence of issues is just about zero). If you disagree, please point me to a single report of someone having bricked their console by using our official installer (people who have previously applied warez hacks need not apply). Again, you're confusing the tools you need to just run applications (that is, Bannerbomb at a minimum, and then The Homebrew Channel if you want convenience) with the tools used to pirate games: not just the loaders - those are safe - but the system software (IOS) hacks and the extremely nasty exploits used to install them (because the people who write these things aren't real reverse engineers and don't know any better).

Piracy tools are extremely dangerous for two reasons: 1) you need to fundamentally patch the Wii software to run pirate games (so it'll read game data from another source), and 2) the people behind them are often highly incompetent. As a result, you get things like cIOScorp, which replaces every single version of IOS with a single patched version. That's the equivalent of taking a whole bunch of shared object sonames for a single library (each with different ABI quirks) and replacing them all with a single, patched version. Where this shared object is as critical as the C library.

Besides the actual insane hacks they use, their installers are almost universally crappy. They don't check return codes, so often they'll uninstall some critical piece of system software, then fail to install it again. Running any piracy tools while your internal storage is near full is almost a guaranteed recipe for a permanent brick. I also know this because I make a device to help repair issues generally caused by using out-of-region games and people often ask me if they can use it to repair their consoles after one of these accidents (the answer, invariably, is to send the Wii to Nintendo and pay their normal repair fee). I've had dozens and dozens of people tell me personally about having bricked their Wiis with piracy software, and none at all who have had any issues installing homebrew using our installer.

This despite the fact that I could no longer play my foreign games (like No More Heroes with blood instead of coins) if homebrew would no longer work.

You don't need nasty hacks to play imports. Playing imports with homebrew is perfectly safe, since it only involves a replacement game loader that doesn't check for the region (it's something optional, not enforced by the IOS security software). This is totally safe (and useless to warez games). The critical difference is that warez game loaders need to patch IOS so it can at game runtime continue to load data from whatever media the game is stored on. Region-free loaders are just disc loaders, you can write one in a couple hundred lines of code using the stock Wii software and without the need for any hacks beyond running PowerPC code. You don't even need to touch a single file on NAND - you could run a region-free disc loader from Bannerbomb, which is basically provably safe because it doesn't touch persistent storage. This is completely different from piracy tools, all of which need to permanently alter system software one way or another.

To debunk your specific claims:

It has been streamlined, but you're basically modifying the Wii's firmware, which is were the risk of bricking your console comes from.

The Homebrew Channel is an _installable_ application that makes _zero_ changes to your firmware. It installs itself exactly as a WiiWare channel would. Its installer perfor

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[marcansoft]

However, I am still tempted to get the backup stuff working on an old USB HDD and putting all of our games on it.

As one of the authors of the Homebrew Channel and someone who has spent way too much time analyzing the Wii software, I'll just say that installing any of the backup stuff is going straight into poorly coded dangerous software territory. Not to mention that most of it is illegal in and of itself (not in the DMCA circumvention device kind of way, which we all know about, but in the distributing leaked/modified/etc Nintendo software kind of way - the piracy tools themselves contain pirated bits and pieces of Nintendo software) You've been warned.

If you're concerned about your discs, just wait until they start to die. No one's going to blame you for downloading a game that you own and then thinking about installing the tools to run it,

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[sortius_nod]

Well, they aren't too happy about what can be done now with the Wii.

I currently have a 100% hacked Wii that has not been opened or had any hardware added at all. Purely through exploits used to get the Homebrew Channel installed you are able to modify the Wii's firmware enough to allow you to install wiiware/virtual console titles, or even back up game discs to an external HDD.

So I'd say Nintendo are concerned about piracy on the Wii. As far as security updates, each release of the Wii firmware puts an halt to any CIOS installs, so they are modifying the firmware enough to stop future hacking... for about a day.

The issue is that Nintendo did the classic security through obscurity, which hasn't really worked out well.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[marcansoft]

Wrong. The Homebrew Channel uses an undisclosed exploit to install itself that the warez people don't know about. Currenty they're using an older exploit that Nintendo failed to patch to install their stuff. The patch cycle for the past couple of updates has been like this:

- Nintendo releases update, breaks everything
- We use an exploit that we developed to release a new version of HBC (this is useless for the pirates because they still can't use that to install their patched IOSes, it only lets you run homebrew without installing hacked versions of anything)
- The pirates discover some complicated, dangerous, typically illegal trick to get their stuff to work anyway. The latest couple have been IOS16 (part of a leaked service center disc) and an older exploit that comex wrote which went largely unnoticed until someone realized that it still worked on the latest firmware.

The people behind warez utilities are quite incompetent and unable to come up with exploits of their own (or reverse engineer ours). However, they've been lucky enough / Nintendo has been stupid enough so far that they've found (crude) workarounds for the past couple of patch cycles.

However, since BootMii has been released now (which gives users full ARM code execution, no questions asked), the pirates will just use that next time Nintendo fixes their exploits, so they no longer have to come up with exploits of their own.

The issue isn't security through obscurity. It's just that Nintendo's security sucks. Examples: plaintext RAM with no checksums, no signature verification for already installed content, the strncmp() signature fiasco, not adding a dummy IOS16 the first time they tried to fix strncmp() across the board, duplicating production keys into the IOS binary code, no NX type protection, poor security practices for IOS drivers, blatantly exploitable system calls and IOS RPC calls, and the list goes on.

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[ookaze]

Except for the fact that you have to use these tools to even be able to launch any homebrew application.
The fact is that you can't run any homebrew on the Wii without first taking the risks you're talking about.

You do NOT need to take those risks just to run homebrew, and running homebrew is pretty much completely safe these days (there are always some theoretical risks risks, of course, but the practical incidence of issues is just about zero).

I agree, but I'm talking to you about the exploits used to install HBC or BannerBomb in the first place.
This is the same step needed for installing both homebrew and piracy tools.
If Nintendo wants to stop piracy tools, that's this very first things they have to stop, and it then could stop the installation of things like HBC too. That's what they've done till now, but homebrew people found ways to go around that up till now if I'm not mistaken. Killing the point of entry (the exploits) is the only viable solution IMO.
The ROI of going after specific homebrew (err, piracy) tools is not worth it in their opinion I think, given their actions till now.

Playing imports with homebrew is perfectly safe, since it only involves a replacement game loader that doesn't check for the region (it's something optional, not enforced by the IOS security software). This is totally safe (and useless to warez games).[...]

Very interesting. Actually, what I feared was my HBC being removed, and then impossibility to reinstall it. Semms like it's got in check.
I admit I was interested by the HDD loading feature in case my Wii DVD drive dies, but given that I get less functions from the tools, I'm not even using it anymore.

The latest homebrew enablers that bypass the latest Nintendo patches are even more dangerous. So I don't buy what you say.

That's ridiculous. With the Twilight Hack, you had to copy a save game to your Wii. With Bannerbomb, it runs straight from SD. If you throw any homebrew app together with Bannerbomb on an SD card, it will run without having to install or modify a single thing in your NAND. You can't get any safer than that.

OK. I actually installed the HBC since the Zelda save time, I didn't have the incentive to install with the new way since I have no use for it for now.

And to install the homebrew channel, ironically you also need to use the VC utility that can be used for piracy.

Are you one of those clueless folks who is using HBC.wad? That's an illegal distribution of HBC (the license does not allow modification or redistribution), not supported by us, and highly stupid. Please stop infringing on our copyright and use the installer instead. It runs on unmodified Wiis straight from Bannerbomb, it's infinitely safer than the crap WAD Manager that you're using, it doesn't require any IOS patching, it makes no permanent changes to your Wii other than just installing HBC, and it actually installs a newer version of HBC.

Please, I used the old method, I never used any HBC.wad, and I was actually talking about the exploits, sorry for not being specific enough. I used the method at the time on the Wiki of HBC folks, so I don't think I made anything wrong.
I'm saying the same exploits are used in the first place and Nintendo has to patch these exploits to prevent piracy. Won't this also then prevent installing HBC? Which I don't care as long as it stays there, to play my import games.
You seem strongly against the HDD loading tools, which I can understand, as I was just concerned when I saw it work. Given that I don't even use it, I think I will just let it go anyway, don't worry about that :) .
I have nothing to fear about bricking my Wii with the new tools if I understand you correctly, and I can even update my HBC w

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[geminidomino]

And get the Pirate Anti-Defamation League on our asses?! Are you out of your mind? Do you know what those people DO?

Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy

[jasonmicron]

For the love of all that is holy, a knock-off of a clearly copyrighted video game is NOT piracy, it is copyright infringement.

Is this a hard concept to grasp for you?

Piracy is downloading and playing a game that is sold in stores without purchasing the game or any other software in question. Sheesh. I am getting stabby just reading your replies.

Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Thantik]

Most of the people who pirate aren't going to buy your stuff anyways, and even if your successful at stopping them (which never lasts very long), you end up looking like an ass to your legitimate customers. Piracy on DS/PSP is probably AMAZINGLY low due to the fact that most of the time you end up having to either go to some mouth-breather import store and spend TONS of cash, or order from a store online and while spending relatively little money, are probably risking having your credit card info stolen.

Please Nintendo...I hate your games but I still cheer for you on the sidelines. Don't make me hate you like I already hate Sony and Microsoft.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

How is $30 for an r4ds flash cart for my dsi TONS of cash? Thats less than the price of one new game, plus i can keep "backups" of all my games on one card. Cheaper and more convenient, not a tough decision for me.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[omgarthas]

I know like 7 or 8 people (friends, friends of friends, etc) with the Nintendo DS and NONE, I repeat, NONE of them, has a single original game. Why so? Because using downloaded games for NDS is ridiculous easy, that even the girls who don't even know to burn a CD, know copy&paste, and that's pretty much it to play "pirated" games on the NDS...

ps: Here, NDS flash cartridges are even sold at the groceries...

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

How is $30 for an r4ds flash cart for my dsi TONS of cash?

$30? That's too expensive. You should visit this store *free shipping*

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[KDR_11k]

They said something about people who make money off pirated games, don't seem very interested in going after P2P and stuff like that.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Korbeau]

I know like 7 or 8 people [...] NONE of them, has a single original game. Why so?

Because they come ask you when a new title comes out if you couldn't by any chance put your hands on it? ;)

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[CronoCloud]

Where is here? Eastern Europe? Southeast Asia? South America?

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[daid303]

No they don't. My little brother also has a flash card, he got it himself, he found out how to use it himself. And he is not that handy with computers, he only uses a computer for email, msn and myspace. And when myspace people are pirating games then you better start doing something about it.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Toonol]

I think piracy on the consoles... the Wii and 360... is pretty much negligible. I'd be shocked if it hurt total software sales by 1%.

However, it's MUCH worse on the handhelds. A flash cart for the DS is something like $7, if you look in the right places (Cough*dealextreme*cough)... and games are generally well under 100 mb, so they're quick and easy to download.

And the PSP... cripes, I don't think ANYBODY uses it like Sony intended. I don't blame or begrudge Nintendo or Sony for tightening them down, so long as they don't adopt strategies that interfere with legitimate purchasers.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Siener]

From where I stand it seems that the DS is so insanely popular (almost 110 million units sold to date) exactly because its games are so easy to pirate, not in spite of it.

Its not like the games aren't selling either - close to 450 million DS games sold so far

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Spad]

England - hell, I got myself one just so that I can avoid having to carry lots of carts around with me when I go on holiday.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[EdIII]

so long as they don't adopt strategies that interfere with legitimate purchasers.

It's far more likely that Superman and Wonder Woman will actually become real, eliminate the Taliban, deliver Osama Bin Laden to the White House steps, and then top it off with a Sex Tape. Ohhh, and the Wonder Twins get caught doing each other in Central Park.

NONE of the console manufacturers have even a measurable amount of respect for Fair Use. NONE. As far as they are concerned, they own the hardware 100% and should be able to 100% control every single one of your actions with their product as if they are in the room holding your hand. That game you bought gets a little too scratched? That cart get dropped in the pool? Well FUCK YOU. Buy another.

I feel you about what they are going through. It's just wishful thinking they are going to try to find a middle ground. They are just as extreme and inflexible as hard core pirates who will never compensate anyone for any intellectual property whatsoever.

It might as well be religious fundamentalism. Your reasonable position has no place here.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[tepples]

NONE of the console manufacturers have even a measurable amount of respect for Fair Use. NONE.

OpenPandora does. Its Linux-based gaming PDA isn't out yet, but there is video evidence that it's much farther along than the Phantom ever got. And I have a couple more arguments that depend on where one draws the difference between a gaming PC and a console.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[DJProtoss]

Which makes a lifetime (to date) attach rate of what, just over 4? That is not that much, really.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[ookaze]

NONE of the console manufacturers have even a measurable amount of respect for Fair Use. NONE. As far as they are concerned, they own the hardware 100% and should be able to 100% control every single one of your actions with their product as if they are in the room holding your hand. That game you bought gets a little too scratched? That cart get dropped in the pool? Well FUCK YOU. Buy another.

I see what you try to do, but your argument is stupid and wrong anyway.
If what you said was true, they would never allow you to download games you buy online as many times as you want. Erased that online game because you need place on your Wii? You can download it back as many times as you want.
The sole reason that they don't allow that on physical properties is because they fear you would get several legitimate copies when you actually paid for one.
Did you even try getting a new copy? Usually, a cart dropped in the pool will still work once dried up. And usually you can phone them and arrange for you to get back a new copy if you send the malfunctioning copy back to them.
Perhaps not in every country, I don't know.

It's just wishful thinking they are going to try to find a middle ground. They are just as extreme and inflexible as hard core pirates who will never compensate anyone for any intellectual property whatsoever.

It might as well be religious fundamentalism. Your reasonable position has no place here.

You just come off to me as someone trying to put them on the same level as hardcore pirates, thus deeming them unworthy of not being pirated. That's just a straw man to me.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

If they don't even have a console out, then they can hardly be considered a console manufacturer, let alone one with respect to fair use.

In all honesty, I suspect that Pandora will be vapourware.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[dunezone]

I wont say this will kill the DS but, when the Dreamcast was around and after a few people figured out how to run debug mode the Dreamcast began its down fall. It was so easy to pirate a game, all you needed was the Dreamcast boot disk which was found everywhere online, and a BIN file for the game which could be downloaded easily, the worst part was if you were on dial-up or not cause this was 1999/2000 and broadband wasn't readily available.

Hell, eventually they managed to make all pirated game self-loading and because the Dreamcast used a proprietary disk format that could hold more then 750mb, some people managed to remove content from the game to fit it on a regular CD. Thus making the GD-Rom's piracy measure of going past the 750mb useless.

I read a post-mortem article from one of the leads at SEGA after support was dropped. They took a gamble with the Dreamcast and knew they had to reach a certain number of units sold both in games and in systems to be able to compete with the Playstation 2. They never officially blamed piracy but they said it definitely hurt them, especially in the last six months before the PS2 arrived.

In my opinion the arrival of the PS2 didn't kill the Dreamcast, piracy did.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

I know like 7 or 8 people (friends, friends of friends, etc) with the Nintendo DS and NONE, I repeat, NONE of them, has a single original game. Why so?

http://www.romulation.net/NDS/

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you, the average American is not able to do that, that's why piracy is lower in the US.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

I know like 7 or 8 people (friends, friends of friends, etc) with the Nintendo DS and NONE, I repeat, NONE of them, has a single pirated game. Why so? Because buying games for NDS is ridiculous easy, that even the girls who don't even know to burn a CD, know open case insert card in DS, and that's pretty much it to play "original" games on the NDS...

ps: Here, NDS games are even sold at the groceries...

U c wut eye did thar? Seriously, NDS games are cheap ($30 for any non-Squenix game, $5-$10 more for Squenix if you really want them), just go buy them. A good chunk of them are more original then the $60 sequelfests that are on the consoles and are way better in my eyes. I bought my DS the summer after it came out and I own more games for that then my PC or any of my consoles. Why? Cause they're GOOD GAMES. People complain about not having any originality or depth or non-sequels on their consoles and the DS delivers on this and you go and pirate them? I really don't understand you people. I'm sure you'll come back and say something about "No sequels? LOLS lok at ter Pokarmans!" Oh boy! You found one series! I'm glad you know so much about the NDS.

Oh and, yes, even though I just flipped your sentence to look ZOMGTEHAWEZOMZORS, it's entirely true. I've maybe met one person who owns a pirated game. The rest of us know when to give money to good developers.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

How come the arrival of super-easy piracy for the PS2 (Available shortly after V2 arrived on the market, so a matter of months) didn't kill it?

Or the fact that pirating a game for the XBOX (also available mere months after XBOX's existence in the market) meant faster load times and easier game selection?

And how come the Gamecube lagged behind both, despite that "quality" piracy wasn't available until several years after its launch?

Or the PS3 lagging behind, despite no widespread piracy? Or the XBOX 360 surpassing it despite simple-as-a-flash piracy? Or the Wii also surpassing it with also rather simple pirate mods?

Your argument is backwards. Pirateable consoles have always been the winners. Look at the NES, they didn't just make 1,000,000-in-1 carts and do away with the lockout chip, they pirated the ENTIRE SYSTEM!

Dreamcast died because of a lack of marketing and availability. I never even saw one in my entire life, and I own almost all consoles from most all generations. It's the 3D0 of the modern world.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[jedidiah]

pppffffttt

Total BS. The downfall of the Dreamcast happened before the unit even shipped.
All of the big studios decided that they weren't going to bother supporting it.
THAT killed the Dreamcast. Whether or not it had easy to use pirating tools
really didn't have anything to do with it.

People with big money to spend didn't want to waste their effort on any more
platforms than they absolutely had to. So Dreamcast got the short end of the
stick as it was seen as an "also ran".

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[RiotingPacifist]

I'm not a fan of videogame/software piracy because there are good legitimate alternatives (and no MAFIAA), however my brother and his friends justify it because ds/wii games are not full games ( there are some and to be far to him he has a fair few of them). While he doesn't mind paying £30-£40 for a full xbox360 game, he finds paying £30 for a collection of minigames is too much. pc game piracy is pretty easy too but i believe that the pricing on a ds games is what makes many turn to the dark side.

I disagree with him as imo, if you don't want to pay £30 for a collection of minigames, you should just go on flash websites and not splash out on a DS in the first place.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[gbarules2999]

Bullshit. Look at any video game console - they can be cracked as easily as the Dreamcast ever was. These markets are slowing down gradually, yes, but so is everyone else right now. Piracy is far from the reason for anything's "death."

The Dreamcast died because developers stopped developing for it. Easy as pie.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Jaysyn]

I bought my PSP used & bought nearly all of the 20 or so games I own used as well. I think I know the real reason that Sony wants to get rid of the UMD on the PSP Go

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[geminidomino]

While I like dealextreme and order from them often, you should point out that said orders with free shipping generally take 4-5 weeks to arrive.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

While the production version of the device isn't out yet, according to their web page the development versions were produced and have been sold to end users, which would make it non-vaporware, by definition.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[spire3661]

Sony's outright LIES about the PS2 did far more damage then ease of piracy to the Dreamcast. Im not saying Sega didnt drop the ball, they had been sowing the seeds of ruin ever since the Saturn surprise launch.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

I own all my DS games. Still, I can understand this.

Part of the impetus to piracy is because Nintendo themselves have been complete jackasses about DS games with limited production runs or sustaining high prices for higher brand releases. Usually, this means that a game stays at $25 down from $30-35 when fresh, and then goes out of stock. This does 2 things--it minimizes availability to the used market, and stands against the general trend that older games are still available and cost less. With Nintendo, older crappy games cost less

The goods games, when they are out of stock, they stay out of stock. I don't know how many games I've come across for the DS that I learn about later, based on recommendations or in reference like a posting, that it's a good game or you finally decide to pick up--the early Kirby game, Yoshi's Island, some of the smaller RPGs that gain a small fanbase, Chessmaster for DS. Part of this is because there are so many releases for the DS, but publishers including Nintendo themselves are also simply not replenishing when stocks run out.

So you want to play the out-of-stock game? You hit the used market which often times has elevated prices even higher than when new...or learn to download. Once you learn to download, you realize how easy it is, and start targeting new releases to avoid the high price.

Nintendo has largely brought this on themselves. You have games going for a third or a quarter of the device cost, which would be like an Xbox360 game costing $60-80 regularly, or a PS3 game costing $100-133 (although lower due to the recent price change for the PS3 lite sorry slim).

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[ZosX]

Yeah and how many games will be made for it? I know it will emulate probably even ps1 games, but I lug around my laptop already and the screen is a lot bigger, plus I can throw a usb gamepad in my bag and have some nostalgia on the go.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[luther349]

the ps2 did sega says that. its was a lack of a dvd player that did it in. the dc hack didnt even come around till round the end of the dc life and by then sales have aruldy bottomed out. and your wrong aboght the last 6 months as well sales where going strong right up until ps2 release day.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Waccoon]

Interesting. I remember buying a used game from an online store, and when I got it, it was entirely obvious that it was a CD copy with an inkjet printed label. It played perfectly without me needing a mod chip in the console, and I always wondered why it worked without needing hardware modification.

I also wondered why the online store agreed to take the disc back without any objection, because I thought for sure they had just ripped me off. I guess they didn't realize it was a pirated copy, despite the obvious lack of any Sega hologram markings. They probably just popped it into a Dreamcast, saw that it worked, and figured it was a legit copy, safe to re-sell.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[VoltageX]

The R4 is quite possibly the worst flashcart. Try an AceKard.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

DS games cost $60-$70. I hate you.

Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it!

[Anonymous Coward]

the worst part was if you were on dial-up or not cause this was 1999/2000 and broadband wasn't readily available

ahhh, the good old days... I was in 9th or 10th grade.. I remember convincing my dad to subscribe to our first roadrunner connection precisely because we could download all the dreamcast games we wanted from the internet and wouldn't have to buy anymore... and we had broadband ever since that day :)

GOD DAMN RUSSIANS RUIN IT FOR THE REST OF US !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuckwad pirate scum !!! Pirate and supoprt terrorists !! Out back with all of them. Bullets are too good. Just fucking cut off their heads !!

Re:GOD DAMN RUSSIANS RUIN IT FOR THE REST OF US !!

[jaxtherat]

In Soviet New Zealand, Caps Lock fires you!

Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

in every way.......

Sony produced the PSP Go for a very specific market, whether they understood it or not. People buying that are not interested in stupid fucking "snackables". Dear God, they make it sound like something a 2nd grader would eat at lunch.

The PSP Go is for people that *already* understand how to take existing UMD's in their collection and convert them and play them on the PSP. The attraction of the Go model is more memory, less power consumption (UMDless), and a smaller form factor, and possibly longer battery life.

Their attempt to cripple the unit so that you cannot play UMD backups, while being blatantly offensive towards supporters of Fair Use, just totally destroyed their *real* market for the product.

I am actually interested in the PSP Go. ONLY IF I CAN PLAY MY UMD BACKUPS. If not, then STFU Sony and you don't get my money.

Total Morons.

P.S - Yes... it can be used for pirated ISOs as well as Fair Use ISOs, but that does not make my point any less valid about their market does it?

Re:Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

Oh I forgot, it's not stealing so you must be right.

You did forget. It is not stealing, either way.

If I make a backup copy of a UMD game I purchased, it can never be anything remotely resembling theft. That falls under Fair Use which is not some bullshit argument that "pirates" throw up like a shield. Fair Use is my right, as in, legal entitlement. Of course, Fair Use is really just a legal test for copyright infringement, but the whole point is that I am just protecting rights that I already obtained by financially compensating the copyright holder in return for rights granted to the content.

No copyright holder should ever be able to claim that I don't have the rights to make copy after copy in my home so that I can enjoy their works forever (my lifetime, and those of my heirs that will inherit those rights). The very concept that I should be limited is offensive, bullshit, immoral, and legally retarded.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making and playing a UMD backup.

Now, as for actually "pirating" the UMD's, that is not theft either. I'm sorry, that so many people out there just cannot get their minds around that. It is not about right and wrong. Promoting those arguments is not supporting piracy either. It is a simple fact that "piracy" is copyright infringement, and that is a matter for civil courts. That is the way it was set up, and it is the way it should be, and that is the way it is now. The act of theft must involve something physical. You cannot steal intellectual property. Not unless, you alter the very fabric of the Universe itself and somehow make the color Purple taste like an Orange. Intellectual Property is a TEMPORARY legal entitlement granted to you by the "State". It is not tangible. How on Earth could I steal that? I can't because it is impossible. The only thing I can do is to perform the act of infringement upon the rights granted to you the State. Nothing more, Nothing less. That does not require the Gestapo busting down doors as if these people are raping children.

Once again, none of those argument means that I support so-called "Piracy". I have stated before, and I will state again, I support compensating the artists, developers, etc. that make the games I enjoy. I own over 40 UMD titles, and ALL of them are neatly kept in their packages on a book-shelf having only been placed in a PSP a single time. I exclusively play my PSP titles via a PSP with a custom operating system and 8 gig memory stick holding the ISO images.

Really? Sony makes and markets a product for people stealing their games?

Yes, really. Absolutely. I said, "whether they knew it or not". "Snackables" is the biggest bullshit I have ever seen. First time customers looking at the PSP Go will realize rather quickly that ALL of the UMD titles at Wall-Mart, Target, etc. CANNOT BE PLAYED. So where the heck do they get their content? Snackables? Mofo Pleeeeease.

When it comes to a choice between a brand new product with ZERO legacy support for hundreds of existing titles, and an existing proven product with support for hundreds of games (and far more user satisfaction with custom homebrew) I think the choice becomes pretty simple.

Now what about existing PSP users? The vast majority have to be already using custom operating systems and UMDless methods of play.

It does not matter where you approach this. Sony created a product that has a primary appeal to the people that already play UMD backups, pirated or not.

So yes.... Sony made a PSP uniquely targeted to the so-called Pirates. I agree, they did not probably intend to do that at all. Given the complete sociopathic retards that run the joint (rootkit), I absolutely believe they have such a complete disconnect with their customers that they really really thought the PSN network and snackables would be enough.

Like I said, Totally Retarded.

Re:Totally Retarded

[mattr99_uk]

I am actually interested in the PSP Go. ONLY IF I CAN PLAY MY UMD BACKUPS.

I think this would be a great feature (I could play my existing UMD games that I've already paid for) but this will never happen.

What incentive does Sony have to do this? They will see this as I way for people to play pirate copies of games. Preventing this also gives them a way of re-selling games to people who already have UMD versions.

Combine this with what looks like an awkward console to play (the buttons seem too close to the bottom) and you have something I have no interest in buying.

Re:Totally Retarded

[blahplusplus]

"If I make a backup copy of a UMD game I purchased, it can never be anything remotely resembling theft.... .... Of course we could make the argument that since we bought the original liscenses to old games we don't have to pay for them again when they become available (i.e. once you buy a liscense it can't be revoked).

The fair use case you mention is an excellent example of hypocrisy of the industry itself when it comes to old games they re-release but to whom the customer already owns the license to access it. Ironically enough "piracy" is justified in this case if we are to take the "license" seriously (I already bought the license to play x game x years ago, you re-release it, I still have the license, etc).

Re:Totally Retarded

[AndersOSU]

whether you like it or not, unless they're releasing the exact same game, with the exact same content, you aren't legally entitled to a copy because you bought a license to a previous version.

In the real world, consider the dictionary. Just because you bought a copy of Webster's dictionary 10 years ago doesn't mean you have the right to download a copy of this years version - even if 99.99% of the content is identical. You do have a right to make copies of your old dictionary for your own personal use. (also consider textbook editions, which, by and large, is a scam, but a legally protected one.)

Re:Totally Retarded

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm all for Fair use...but you can't just pick and choose which laws to obey based on how YOU feel about them. That means that someone else might think that a law against robbery is infringing on their right to your money, or their right to "pursuit of happiness". What I am talking about is the DMCA which says that you cannot circumvent any copy-protection. So you have a fair use right to make backups, so long as they are not copy-protected.

I don't agree with that the copy-protection portion, just pointing out the danger of picking and choicing which laws you agree with.

Re:Totally Retarded

[Anonymous Coward]

But the dictionary is still readable years in the future. That might no be the case of games, music and movies. This planed obsolence is not a problem for books. Until the law is adjusted for this i will format shift anyway i dam well please.

Re:Totally Retarded

[drsmithy]

Fair Use is my right, as in, legal entitlement.

Fair use is not your "right", it is something you can do without fear of prosecution.

Re:Totally Retarded

[brkello]

Not that I disagree with your major points about fair use, the whole "this is not theft" is garbage. Yeah, we all know it is copyright infringement. It is still breaking the law and theft is just easier to say. Yeah, you aren't depriving the company of something, WE ALL KNOW THIS. But you are using something you didn't pay for and it is just easy to call that stealing or theft. Even if it is different in your mind, to a lot of people it isn't. It is still illegal so who cares what it is called other than people who want to justify breaking the law. "I mean, it's not stealing! Get off my back! wah wah"

Re:Totally Retarded

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're not using the correct words, you're using the wrong words.

Re:Totally Retarded

[geminidomino]

Yeah, we all know it is copyright infringement. It is still breaking the law and theft is just easier to say. Yeah, you aren't depriving the company of something, WE ALL KNOW THIS. But you are using something you didn't pay for and it is just easy to call that stealing or theft.

It's easier to say "you're a moron and you should die in a fire" than it is to say "while your position may be misguided, the underlying philosophy may still hold some validity."

That doesn't make it correct.

Re:Totally Retarded

[Anonymous Coward]

JFYI - "Fair use" is just a defense in court, it's not your right and you are not entitled to it. Regardless - PSP does not play "backups" unless modified in violation of DMCA so your idea it only interests "backup" players as yourself is just as crazy as your belief it is designed to play some "snackables". It's designed for freaking electronic distribution, if you ever went to PSN you had seen there are no "snackables", there are however the same games they used to sell on UMD or CD-ROM for PlayStation. Small games Sony is trying to push are for every PSP model and they are competing with iPhone crappy $1 games.

And this is golden: "Now what about existing PSP users? The vast majority have to be already using custom operating systems and UMDless methods of play." no shit? What data did you use to backup this statement? Rectal-Digital Market Analysis Bureau Report?

Re:Totally Retarded

[Cedric Tsui]

Ironically enough "piracy" is justified in this case...

You may be right. But be careful. ANYTHING can be justified when the only person who needs to be convinced is yourself.

Re:Totally Retarded

[s73v3r]

Not even that. Fair use is a defense against an accusation of copyright infringement. You may still be taken to court.

Re:Totally Retarded

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony has a lengthy history of this sort of consumer-hostility. In any sort of non-cartel-controlled market, they would have died long ago.

Re:Totally Retarded

[spire3661]

Hmm thats funny, I wanted a PSP Go because of the smaller form factor and the possibilities that bluetooth brings to the unit.

Re:Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

whether you like it or not, unless they're releasing the exact same game, with the exact same content, you aren't legally entitled to a copy because you bought a license to a previous version.

I do agree with you on that. However, I think what the poster was saying is that if you had something like a Crash Bandicoot game on the PS1, you would be legally entitled to run the code on the PSP.

In that case, there is nothing substantially different. Nothing at all actually. It's the same code, just being emulated on a different platform.

Your point pertains to newly "renovated" games like Millipede, Centipede, Asteroids, etc. where the graphics and game play are substantially enhanced, and as a result, create a new product. In that case, having a license to the original game does not entitle you to the new one. That I agree with you on.

Re:Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

It is my "right" in that Fair Use is really just the act of protecting rights I have already been granted. In other words, it is legally protected behavior. I thought I was clear on that in the next sentence, if not I apologize.

Prosecution, AFAIK, relates to criminal conduct. I think you mean you can be sued. Well that is always true. You don't need to be correct to sue someone. Just have a reasonable argument and Voila! you are in the courtroom wasting people's time.

If we were to be very specific, then yes, Fair Use is not a right or legal entitlement at all, but a series of legal tests to ascertain if copyright infringement has occurred and to what extent.

P.S - As far as criminal prosecution of copyright infringement goes, I really think it has to be quite a few acts of distribution (lately it does not matter whether you profit or not). Simply making a copy in your home does not warrant criminal prosecution of copyright infringement.

Re:Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

the whole "this is not theft" is garbage.

No... It is garbage to call it theft. If *you* know it is copyright infringement and the unwashed masses understand it as "theft" (because of propaganda and ignorance) that does not mean it is theft at all. The fact you are willing to enable the continuance of their ignorant behavior does not make you correct in this case.

using something you didn't pay for and it is just easy to call that stealing or theft.

The problem is that this "something" is not tangible. It may be easy to call it stealing or theft, but is not correct legally. The ignorance of any person does not protect them or serve them in the court of law.

Even if it is different in your mind, to a lot of people it isn't.

Totally, and Absolutely... IRRELEVANT. The only minds that matter are those of the judges, lawyers, and legislators. Like I said before, the ignorance of any one person is not a consideration in a court of law.

It is still illegal so who cares what it is called other than people who want to justify breaking the law.

It is not illegal in most cases, it is infringement instead. There is a difference. Performing an illegal act usually results in prosecution in a criminal court. To illegally infringe upon someone's copyrights requires enormous acts of willful infringement with distribution with or without profit.

Simple infringement caused by receiving distributed copies without receiving a license granted by the copyright holder (you "bought" it), does not meet the legal requirement for criminal copyright infringement.

The proof is abundant. The RIAA sues people in civil courts. If it was illegal as you say it is, then why are these people not being reported to their local DA's and prosecuted criminally? I think the fact that they are not supports my legal interpretations that it is not theft, but copyright infringement.

"I mean, it's not stealing! Get off my back! wah wah"

It is NOT stealing, but that does not make it right, ethical, moral, kosher, whatever. I agree with you on that. Unless you have a deeply held philosophical belief that all information is free and that is morally wrong to attempt to own information, then you are simply justifying behavior you know to be wrong.

I am not justifying the law by promulgating my views about copyright infringement being a civil matter and not theft. The constant assertions to the contrary are aggravating to people like me since, quite frankly, you are just sidestepping the arguments by saying, "Yeah.. well you are just a f'ing pirate so your arguments are invalid based on that specious reasoning alone.".

Seriously consider my arguments. It is NOT theft. Believing it is not theft, does not make you a pirate or somebody that condones those acts which you clearly feel are wrong. I agree with you about that, but never about your assertions that it is theft and I am complicit simply by arguing against it.

Re:Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

What about the laws that used to say I could own a Nigger? I apologize, that was just histrionics, but I hope my point came across.

We ALL must choose the laws we agree with. Just because it is a law, does not mean it is correct, *lawful*, moral, ethical, etc. When the laws are out of hand I think it is my civic duty to disobey them.

The DMCA violates my rights Fair Use behavior. Note, I did not say my rights to Fair Use. The DMCA prevents me from making copies for the sole purpose of protecting my rights to continue to play the game I already purchased.

So you have a fair use right to make backups, so long as they are not copy-protected.

Those companies DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to prevent me from making copies. It was a right that was never granted to them. The whole arguments that created the DMCA were fear mongering arguments about how copies could only be used for one purpose which was copyright infringement. They basically said that Fair Use was NEVER a motivation. Really? Right there they just got a law by saying that all instances in the future in which copies were made were motivated by people wanting to infringe upon their copyrights.

Complete and Total Bullshit. I will never respect the DMCA. Not for one second.

Now copies aside, the DMCA is bullshit since it means I never actually own my property. How can I truly own a PSP if I am not allowed to put whatever operating system I want in it? That is immoral and legally retarded as well.

The DMCA is the clearest indication of fraud and corruption in our legislative process since 1776.

just pointing out the danger of picking and choicing which laws you agree with.

The *REAL* danger is blindly agreeing with and complying with all the laws that get created. Some more histrionics for you.... Would you blindly go along with a law that said you had to put a yellow star on your jacket or cooperate with the locating and detainment of all the Jews in your community? Probably not. The DMCA is no different, and that is not an exaggeration.

My biggest problem is the moment I argue against the DMCA and copyright infringement not being theft, I get labeled as a pirate and a supporter of willful copyright infringement.

Re:Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

JFYI - "Fair use" is just a defense in court, it's not your right and you are not entitled to it.

You did not even read what I said. Fair Use is a behavior protected by other rights that I AM legally entitled to.

Regardless - PSP does not play "backups" unless modified in violation of DMCA

I will not respect the DMCA since it is a law that violates my rights. I purchased the PSP. I DO HAVE THE RIGHT to put whatever operating system on it I want. Sony's only recourse is to not sell me the PSP, but lease it to me instead.

I don't give a shit about the DMCA, and it is not different than laws that allowed slavery, yellow stars, or separate lines for the water fountains.

your idea it only interests "backup" players as yourself is just as crazy as your belief it is designed to play some "snackables".

Once again, you don't read since you clearly were just interested in attacking me. It does ONLY interest backup players. BOTH Fair Use and Pirate backup players at the SAME time. That includes all of them.

It is designed to play snackables and solely get it's content from the PSN. There is no other options, and I will explain that in a second.....

It's designed for freaking electronic distribution, if you ever went to PSN you had seen there are no "snackables", there are however the same games they used to sell on UMD or CD-ROM for PlayStation. Small games Sony is trying to push are for every PSP model and they are competing with iPhone crappy $1 games.

What cave have you been in? Snackables is not some word I came up with. Sony has been pushing that for months. Ohhh, and those games being re-sold on the PSN network that you already purchased? That is just a fucking insult and I doubt more than a few percent of existing customers are going to put up with that shit.

Customer: So... I have this Twisted Metal UMD I can play on my PSP-1000 here.....
Sony: Yeah, well you can't play on the PSP Go.
Customer: Well what do I do then? I want to play it.
Sony: Come on over to our spiffy store on the PSN and you can purchase it again.
Customer: Is the game different... I don't understand.
Sony: No. We just want you to buy it again.
Customer: But its the same game on the same platform. WHy?
Sony: ............... let me ask my manager... hold on. Steve!!!

Yeah. It is only for snackables since in the real world just about anyone is going to be so pissed off they have to spend the money all over again they will never even buy the PSP Go in the first place.

Sony's only option is to allow downloads of games once you prove you actually own it. Other than that, they are screwed.

And this is golden: "Now what about existing PSP users? The vast majority have to be already using custom operating systems and UMDless methods of play." no shit? What data did you use to backup this statement? Rectal-Digital Market Analysis Bureau Report?

Your insults do not make your arguments correct and mine wrong.

I don't know anybody that uses the original OS on the PSP. All you have to do is go online to any number of forums and to see the popularity of custom operating systems of both Pirates and purchasers.

Geez, just use Google for five minutes and you can see just how much is out there. Don't take my word for it. There are plenty of Sony executives backing up my statements....

Re:Totally Retarded

[AndersOSU]

It doesn't have to be substantially enhanced, if you include bonus features or even a new title screen, you don't have the rights to it.

You are allowed to take a game you previously purchased and try to make it run on whatever hardware you'd like (with some DMCA exceptions), you're not allowed to copy a new release of an old game and claim you have rights to it.

For another example, you're allowed to scan a book you own and transfer it to your ebook reader. Whether you're allowed to download digitized version of the exact same edition to your kindle is a legal gray area. You're not allowed to download a slightly different version, even if all the words are the same but there are some minor editing or typographical differences.

Re:Totally Retarded

[drsmithy]

The point is that Fair Use is not something a copyright holder is legally obliged to facilitate.

Re:Totally Retarded

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have any arguments, I am just pointing at your crazy ones and your failure to notice this only proves I am not going to see any of Sony executives confirming that the vast majority of PSP users are running hacked OS or any other support for your outlandish claims. You seem to be living in denial, good luck with that.

Re:Totally Retarded

[EdIII]

I agree. Facilitating my Fair Use would place an undue financial burden upon Sony as the replacement medium and shipping is not free.

However, the real point is that when I am willing to absorb the costs of replacement, or the costs of preventative measures, Sony wrongly attempts to obstruct my Fair Use protected behavior.

It goes both ways. DRM and hardware based copyright protection exist because of an enormous inequity between the consumer and mega corporations like Sony. It is a clear case of corruption and the power of lobbyists that such a repugnant set of laws were passed that make it legal to obstruct behavior that previous courts have always upheld to be lawful and not cases of infringement.

Those laws are wrong and I am performing civil disobedience by continuing my behavior. That does not change the fact, cannot change the fact, should not change the fact, that my actions are those of Fair Use and not those of a pirate.

Re:Totally Retarded

[luther349]

the psp go is a joke btw it does not have more memery just a onbord flash hardware wise its the same. and well pro duos serve the same thing. but sony isnt outing the umd market they are making a psp 4000 model with a umd drive.

simple

[ILuvRamen]

Hire me, geeze, Those big corporate morons have no idea what they're doing. There are at least a dozen different ways to make cartridge based games self destruct their data if they're opened. You can't get the ROM off it if a system wipes it any time oxygen is sensed inside the cartridge which has a vacuum in it. Good luck getting the data off it! There, that one's for free :P

Re:simple

[walshy007]

There are at least a dozen different ways to make cartridge based games self destruct their data if they're opened. You can't get the ROM off it if a system wipes it any time oxygen is sensed inside the cartridge which has a vacuum in it.

sure you can, I can dump my legitimate games onto cf card using my actual ds.. you do realize that for the cartridge to be usable the system has to be able to read the data... right?

dumping does not involve removing cartridge chips these days (ok.. well... arcade games sometimes) it either involves putting the cartridge into an original system that's running a dumper program, or making something yourself that has a cartridge port that can read it.

Re:simple

[tepples]

I can dump my legitimate games onto cf card using my actual ds

I know what you're talking about: Rudolph's dumper. But do makers of DS copiers even make the CF card adapters anymore? I thought all the manufacturers had moved on to SLOT-1 solutions.

it either involves putting the cartridge into an original system that's running a dumper program, or making something yourself that has a cartridge port that can read it.

Any ideas on how to build an NES copier?

Re:simple

[petermgreen]

Any ideas on how to build an NES copier?
http://www.tripoint.org/kevtris/Projects/copynes/

Afaict the trickiest bit with copying nes carts is actually identifying them. nes carts (unlike gameboy carts) use a huge range of mapper chips and don't have any header information to say which mapper is in use. So if you are trying to dump a cart that hasn't been dumped before you may well have to open it up to find out what mapper is in there.

If you want to actually copy the cart rather than just make an image for use on emulators you will also need to either clone the mapper chip or find a donor cart with the same mapper chip to host your copy.

There is also the security chip issue but afaict clones of that are readilly availible nowadays.

Re:simple

[walshy007]

I know what you're talking about: Rudolph's dumper.

I used an original gameboy advance media player, with modified firmware, and I had not heard of rudolf's dumper until you mentioned it then, I had a tool around 2005'ish that could dump ds firmware, ds slot sram, and ds slot rom, very handy multi-functional tool, featured a debugger also. Cannot for the life of me remember the name of it but if I can remember I will post in a reply.

Any ideas on how to build an NES copier?

best bet to follow petermgreen's advice, my main experience is snes where we don't have memory mappers, just silly co-processors in cartridges :)

Sony removed the battery to stop Pandora?

[YesIAmAScript]

Come on, fixing the Pandora problem was as easy as changing the firmware that listened to the battery.

It is an enormous stretch to think that the PSP Go! doesn't have a removable battery because of the Pandora battery. Wouldn't you think it would be more because non-removable batteries are in vogue in high-line devices like the iPod Touch and Zune HD, both of which the PSP Go! competes with?

Re:Sony removed the battery to stop Pandora?

[rhook]

Or they removed the removable battery so they can charge you a service fee when you need a new one.

Re:Sony removed the battery to stop Pandora?

[chrb]

Indeed. An ipod touch battery replacement from Apple is £66.13 in the UK (equiv. US$107). That's probably higher than the profit margin on a brand new device. And the great thing about it, is that the cost is totally hidden from the initial purchase - the majority of people have no idea that batteries degrade over time, and won't even think about Total Cost of Ownership.

This is fantastic!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just goes to show that using Linux helps prevent piracy. Go F/OSS!

Re:This is fantastic!

[iYk6]

Just goes to show that using Linux helps prevent piracy. Go F/OSS!

Actually, the definition of piracy used in the summary is: installing a free, flexible OS onto a computer device. So, installing Linux is now piracy.

Sigh

[sonicmerlin]

I understand where they're coming from, but I feel the need to point out there are studies suggesting people who pirate the most (music) also buy the most (music). I imagine this applies to video game software as well.

I mean seriously, imagine how many games there are you just want to try out to see if it's worth sinking $50-$60 on during a harsh recession.

I've used a Supercard with my DS to try out games I thought would be great and found out just weren't that interesting. On the other hand the supercard has given me the opportunity to try out a bunch of much more "fringe" (in my mind) games that I without a doubt wouldn't buy without having the chance to try first, like "Cooking Mama".

While trying out a game and finding out I like it doesn't necessarily lead to me buying it, it keeps me engaged with the video game market. This means I don't get "burned out" (an issue I had during the Gamecube/PS2 era) or become uninterested and thus keep buying games regularly.

Their real anti-piracy strategy...

[Anonymous Coward]

A new fleet of ships of the line, bristling with cannons and hung with sails.

Let's see how those pirates handle a few hundred pounds of cannonballs coming at them!

Also, they're sending in the Plumbers to clean things up.

Not another $60/mo phone bill

[tepples]

Why don't they open source the game software and sell subscriptions to the server.

Because then every player would have to buy a $1,440 two-year subscription to mobile Internet access. Not everybody wants another $60/mo phone bill.

4 love

[mixedlove]

Interracial relationships . . . Why is that phrase used to describe unions between men and women of different ethnicities? Would you like to experience interracial romance? Go to ******** mixedmingle.com ********

Tecmo Super Bowl still rocks!

[misfit815]

My enjoyment of our Wii doubled when I installed the Homebrew Channel, and I always bring it up when people ask us if we like the system. It's funny that they are in a constant fight to stop stuff that contributes so much to the value of what they're selling to us.

Re:Tecmo Super Bowl still rocks!

[Actually, I do RTFA]

It's funny that they are in a constant fight to stop stuff that contributes so much to the value of what they're selling to us.

It's only because you misunderstand what Nintendo is selling. They're giving you subsidized hardware, and selling the rights to you as a consumer to big companies.

The only reason they care if you own a DS/Wii is because you then buy games; they lose money on the actual system. So obviously they only want the system to be used for games they get a cut of. And obviously, in their mind, homebrew is as evil as piracy. Because it's not the violation of copyright X Y or Z that hurts their profits, it's not buying X Y or Z.

Re:Tecmo Super Bowl still rocks!

[geminidomino]

The only reason they care if you own a DS/Wii is because you then buy games; they lose money on the actual system.

That's been shown to not be the case many times. Nintendo does not take a loss on the Wii systems.

Their strategy goes the wrong way...

[Ranma-sensei]

...because Sony and Nintendo will just be annoying us homebrew users. Indiscriminately criminalising your customers will not make the "bad guys" go away - they'll just multiply!

The real problem is that the industry - and that's not just Sony and Big N - still keeps ignoring is pricing. Maybe you gotta stop labeling crap the same as diamonds. (and yeah, I know Third Parties don't get a say in this!)

I think a general drop in prices is called for - and maybe the dropping of the belief that "Visuals are Everything".

Not their only bonehead move

[Mark_in_Brazil]

If, instead of putting the "SELECT" and "START" buttons in the little round spot in the mirror-image position of where the thumbstick is on the Go, they had put in another thumbstick and put those two buttons somewhere else, they would have made ports of shooters and other PS2 and PS3 games to the PSP a lot easier. Backward compatibility with old PSP games would be trivial - the old games don't "know" about the second thumbstick, so they'd automatically ignore it.

I like my PSP quite a bit. It has served me well on long flights and on bus trips between Rio and Sao Paulo. I've watched movies and TV eps on it, and I've enjoyed some of the games, especially some of the shooters like the Syphon Filter games, which I think do the best job of working around the problem of having only one joystick, but it would be nicer if all the shooters could have the same controls, which would be the case if there were two thumbsticks plus the direction and "shape" buttons. Y'know... like EVERY console controller. And as I said, it would make ports of console games that much easier, which could greatly expand the number of games available for the PSP.

It's a huge pain in the ass to switch between different shooters on the PSP, because I end up confusing the control schemes between different games. Since the controls are only that different from game to game because the games use different workarounds for the single-joystick problem, the solution is obvious... to everyone but the geniuses at Sony.

The PSP hardware has gone through three updates in the last few years, and the most obvious change to strengthen the platform has not been part of any of them. Instead, they've focused on making it smaller and lighter, which I don't want at all. In fact, I have a case and leave the PSP in it at all times because the whole thing feels sturdier in my hands. One of the reasons I chose the PSP over the DS was because the DS felt flimsy and easy-to-break to me. So of course, when Sony updated their hardware three times, it was to make it lighter and smaller, but not to, y'know, do the one thing that would really improve the platform as a whole.

I will give them credit for the video out that they added on the 2000, though. That's the one feature of the newer models I really wish I had. Battery life is a decent one, but I just bought an extra battery (with a larger capacity than the original Sony one) and make sure both are charged before I leave on a trip. I also use the power cord when I can (in airports or bus stations, at home, etc.). I've never had to quit playing because of lack of battery power.

Piracy vs cost of redesign

[grapeape]

One has to wonder if the the money wasted on redesigns and protection schemes doesn't actually exceed the revenue that would have resulted if piracy wasn't possible. Every pirate I know fills one profile...cheap bastards that wouldn't buy anything to start with. Nearly all the friends I have that pirate speak about "homebrew" but do no development themselves and their idea of homebrew is emulation so they can pirate other stuff.

However, the current software model is a dead end. Many people are just not willing to spend $30-$40 on a portable game. IMHO thats why even with inferior controls the Iphone is starting to cut into sales on the DS and PSP. There are many games now that are 1/4th the price on the iphone and doing quite well. When you have a choice of Peggle for $30 on the DS or $1.99 on the iphone it doesnt exactly give the traditional gamer warm and fuzzies. If handheld games were an impulse purchase many of the piracy issues would drop drastically.

I don't need you either.

[b4dc0d3r]

I bought a PS2 with the intent of purchasing $20 games. If I can't find them (out of print or not sold here or whatever), I'll just download them. I intend to give them my money, but if they make it impossible to do that I won't do it.

Of course, that probably means I'll stop buying console stuff and move back to computers. I feel better about giving hardware mfrs my money anyway, even though PC gaming is a constant upgrade treadmill.

Ever higher game prices are only shooting yourself in the foot.

Re:I don't need you either.

[acohen1]

I just saw this "old news" article on Kotaku http://kotaku.com/5346805/old-news-97-sony-forces-nintendo-game-prices-down It really puts things in perspective how expensive games used to be before pressed discs on the psx. Recall these prices have no adjustment for inflation, and we are now bitching about 59.99 games when 12 years ago they were just coming down from $70 !

Re:I don't need you either.

[MemoryDragon]

I bought a PS2 with the intent of purchasing $20 games. If I can't find them (out of print or not sold here or whatever), I'll just download them. I intend to give them my money, but if they make it impossible to do that I won't do it.

Of course, that probably means I'll stop buying console stuff and move back to computers. I feel better about giving hardware mfrs my money anyway, even though PC gaming is a constant upgrade treadmill.

Ever higher game prices are only shooting yourself in the foot.

Actually the upgrad treatmill has slowed down significantly thanks to the consoles.

Re:I don't need you either.

[Sirusjr]

I take this stance with movies. There are tons of movies I want to see that I wait for and never make it to my theaters. I would have gone and watched it if the content providers released it but instead if I get the feeling that they don't want to I will pirate it. Why spend money on something when my preferred method of consuming that product is not available to me? The same thing goes for music. If a company decides that they do not want to release their music on a physical CD, I will not buy their music. Why? Because I only want to buy my music in a physical format that is lossless and can easily be converted to various lossy formats that pop up over the years. Does it make good business sense to companies like Disney to release movie soundtracks exclusively on itunes/amazon.com? Possiblby. Do I want to support that path of releases? No way in hell. Thus they lose sales when they take such stupid annoying paths.

innocuous title

[Anonymous Coward]

MONOPOLIES???
You guys are so freaking stupid it hurts. Hurts. Morons.

Re:innocuous title

[Shikaku]

Make a game console and sell it then.

Attach rates

[tepples]

Which makes a lifetime (to date) attach rate of what, just over 4? That is not that much, really.

Nintendo makes a profit on the lowest of attach rates, which is why you haven't seen Nintendo react quite as quickly in updating the DS and Wii lockout as Sony has in updating the PSP lockout.

Locking you in

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to be bit of an Ogre. If Sony stopped over charging and developing hardware locking you in to region fixed DVDs players, none of this nonesense would happen. It was Sony who developed CD's to try and get rid of Vinyl in the late 80's, however I can prove that My Vinyl kicks arse playing on my Lin Sondek LP 12 or Rega turntable. Do not trust Sony/BMG/RIAA they want things all they're own way and nobody else's opinion counts. Now if you have a spare windows machine, you should download Alcohol 120% which they have tried to ban on countless times because it totally strips DRM. These fuckers need to be taught a lesson, like bankers who have ripped off good willed people worldwide. Yes it all started with Enron. I am so fucking pissed off right now and this is why I am posting anonymously. I just want to say that I have an enourmous amount of affection for slashdot and users, I truly do love your comments :)

Dreamcast hijack thread

[Kagura]

Ahh, the days of Dreamcast. I recently purchased Shenmue 2 EURO for DC. I just have to locate a Dreamcast that can accept boot discs. They removed CD-R readability in later models to combat piracy, but it was far too late.

Dreamcast was a really good system. It was almost same generation as PS2.

The five mappers you meet in NES-land

[tepples]

http://www.tripoint.org/kevtris/Projects/copynes/

CopyNES: $125, plus the price of a working NES and a PC from the Windows 98 era (you'll need a parallel port for the CopyNES and a USB port to get your files onto a USB stick). Unless you have a lot of games that aren't coming to VC any time soon, it's cheaper just to buy games on VC for $5 each.

Afaict the trickiest bit with copying nes carts is actually identifying them. nes carts (unlike gameboy carts) use a huge range of mapper chips

If one restricts oneself to NES games (72 pin), there are only a handful of common NES mappers: NROM/CNROM/GNROM, UNROM, BNROM/AOROM, MMC1, or MMC3. Even most of the unlicensed games are clones of CNROM (Panesian), GNROM (Color Dreams), UNROM (Camerica), or MMC3 (Tengen). That's few enough for a dumper to take less than one second to try each mapper's handshake and see how the cart responds.

If you want to actually copy the cart rather than just make an image for use on emulators you will also need to either clone the mapper chip or find a donor cart with the same mapper chip to host your copy.

Plenty of mappers have been cloned already: PowerPak. For something more permanent, RetroZone has reproduction boards designed for NROM/CNROM/GNROM, UNROM, BNROM/AOROM, and MMC1 games.

Re:The five mappers you meet in NES-land

[ZosX]

Or just download the whole freaking rom collection and call it a day. I mean come on, are nes roms getting that hard to find these days?

CRT SDTVs don't have HDMI

[tepples]

Use the DVI/HDMI port that comes with many PCs now and plug the PC into the TV.

CRT SDTVs already in homes have no DVI/HDMI input. Should I just point anyone who wants to buy my game to SewellDirect.com, which sells VGA to composite adapters?

Re:CRT SDTVs don't have HDMI

[jedidiah]

I was addressing your "dev kit", not the in home units.

A proper DVI port also has the nice feature that it's pretty trivial to drive an SD TV.

Re:CRT SDTVs don't have HDMI

[tepples]

I was addressing your "dev kit", not the in home units.

So once my team has developed a PC game that works on my dev kit (PC + Vizio HDTV), how do we deploy it to the masses, many of whom still have SDTVs?

A proper DVI port also has the nice feature that it's pretty trivial to drive an SD TV.

How many DVI ports on PCs are "proper" in your sense, which I take to mean "supporting the composite output pins"?

Re:CRT SDTVs don't have HDMI

[jedidiah]

The i945 Mac mini has such a DVI port. It also happens to look strangely like a Wii too.

Perhaps you could actually look into what low cost, low profile, console-ish gear exists out there.

To quote Princess Leia

[Time_Warped]

"The more you (they) tighten their grip the more (gaming) systems will slip through their (corporate) fingers...." Hmm, does that make Sony the "Sith Lord" and Nintendo the "Dark Apprentice" or is it the other way?

I pirate my DS games

[Anonymous Coward]

I pirate my DS games.

Then when I'm done playing them, I buy the cartridges and donate them to charity.

Sorry for being such an awful dirty person, Nintendo!

Boyd

[tecnico.hitos]

Nintendo has hired Neil Boyd

He was named Nintendo's official milkman.

He was entitled to deliver what the world wants. What the world deserves.

I can't believe they are doing this...

[LethargicParasite]

...when there are already successful anti-piracy methods in the market. Has changing the firmware ever worked? No. Has suing the distributors ever worked? No.

If these people had actually sat down in a room and looked at a PowerPoint detailing what anti-piracy methods have and have not worked in the past, they would have released an online marketplace alongside their handheld consoles. Not only would that have killed piracy, it would have killed competing consoles.

tl;dr: If you want to compete with piracy, then you need to be more convenient than piracy. Steam and iTunes are perfect examples of this.

Layne's Law

[tepples]

Piracy is downloading and playing a game that is sold in stores without purchasing the game or any other software in question.

Webster disagrees: "3 a : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright". But at this point, the discussion has fulfilled Layne's Law, and we can agree to disagree.