See, the average gamer doesn't make mods. Gamers who post here on/. are more into that sort of thing. So really the lack of mods on the consoles is a non-issue because the mainstream of gaming simply doesn't care.
I play online with my console (Ps2) and I don't have to pay anything.
You can create great games that work well with a gamepad. I wouldn't want to play any 3D platformer with a keyboard. Besides if the keyboard+mouse are so great why does every PC magazine have ads for Pc gamepads that look suspiciously like Dual Shocks. I'll tell you why: Keyboards suck for gaming, they were designed for data entry, not for fast action. Your games are designed to use the mouse and keyboard, whoop de do, so it might be difficult to port the control to the gamepad. My games are designed to use the gamepad and you simply could would not want to play them with a keyboard, again whoop de do. You can buy gamepads, I can buy keyboards and mice (I have a mouse and keyboard hooked up to my PS2), so control is a non issue.
As for online gaming, don't forget the PS2, been playing online since this summer, first THPS3, and now SOCOM.
You see, unlike PC gamers who have long waits for games, console gamers can actually buy new games for their systems on a regular basis, therefore there is no need for mods and expansion packs to keep the gameplay going. Console developer simply have much higher ouput.
There's more to gaming than FPS's and mods.
Besides consoles and their games simply sell more, always have, always will. IT is the PC games that are the "small part of the gaming world", though I would consider it more of a "niche" market.
There's a lot more diversity in console controllers now. Mice, keyboards, wheels, big joysticks are available. I would like to know which FPS's and RTS's you have played on a console with a controller. Every one of them I have played has controlled fine, thank you very much. Maybe you are just too picky. You can, of course, use mice with many console FPS's and RTS's.
Console players don't obsess over new levels or anything because lots of new games come out on a regular basis for them. You PC gamers have such long waits that you need those mods to keep playing. I am of the personal opinion that players should not do the developers work for them. Maybe if there weren't so many mods PD developers might get off their rear ends and actually start making games at a decent clip.
There are console games that do let you create your own levels, like Timesplitters. There's also the RPG Maker series. And if you have a PLaystation 2 Linux kit, you can make your own games.
You can play quake and starcraft on the consoles you know. And where do you come off with that kiddy nonsense. SOCOM? Metal Gear Solid? Grand Theft Auto?, Carnage Heart? Final Fantasy Tactics? Fear Effect? Resident Evil? Silent Hill?
maybe you should try playing more than sports or fighting games on your console.
The following consoles have had mice available for them: SNES, Genesis, Saturn, Playstation 1, Dreamcast, Playstation 2 (via it's USB ports). Where do you get that "only available for the PC" bit
I can read email, browse the web, IM, using my Playstation 2 Linux kit which is an OFFICIAL Sony product by the way.
I will argue with you on the controls. I simply can't understand how PC gamers can actually control an action game with a keyboard. I've tried it and it's very non-intuitive. IMHO keyboards are for data entry, not gaming. Mice, I like. I prefer using mouse look for PS1 FPS's, but that is a lot harder on the wrist than using the analog sticks. All PS2's have USB ports so you can hook up a keyboard and mouse if you want, and some games support it, almost all of them FPS's.
As for replayability, console players have enough new games available that they can actually go buy new ones rather than keep modding old ones. It doesn't take a console developer forever to do a sequel to a game, probably because console developers actually have lots of people working on games. Unlike PC developers who still have a sort of garage band mentality.
As for availability, most of the better PC games get ported to the consoles, the reverse is also true, though you PC gamers are not going to be able to play many SquareSoft games.
SOCOM, up to 16 players in two 8 player teams. Where have you been for the last two months not to have heard about this. There's also Tribes and Twisted Metal Black Online. The PS2 MMORPGS Everquest and Final Fantasy XI come out next year.
Lets see, there's BSD on the Dreamcast, those Linux on the XBox fellows, and the official Playstation 2 Linux kit (http://playstation2-linux.com). Don't think anyone's ported anything to the Gamecube yet.
Maybe an older version of KDE would run faster. I'm using KDE1 on a machine with a 294 MHz CPU and 32 MB of RDRAM. Got plenty of HD space, 40 gigs. I've tried KDE2 on this box and it's slow, expecially Konqeuror, but KDE1 runs alright. Of course my unusual CPU (R5900) might run some apps more efficeintly than others.
Actually we can't possibly know whether the Pippin would have been a failure or not since it was never released in the US.
There are successful set top boxes except they aren't called that, they are called video game consoles. You could browse the web on the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast. In Japan the Dreamcast accessed the WebTV service, though it didn't in the US. The Playstation 2 can browse the web too, if you have one of the Linux kits. IMHO the set top boxes of the future will simply be descendants of the current video game consoles.
Also, though WebTV might not be considered a total success, it has outlasted all challengers, even in it's pre Microsoft days. When it comes to "Internet on television" WebTV is the one to beat.
Microsoft did not design WebTV/MSNTV, they just bought WebTV a few years ago. Twas ex Apple folks under the name of Artemis that actually designed the boxes and started the company. Lasted a couple of years until MS bought them.
Do you mean an Epic FastLoad or a Final Cartridge? Probably on eBay. Though you might try out JiffyDOS instead. It's a chip solution to the drive speed problem.
I think WebTV does something like this to make it's fonts legible on TV. Amazing how clear most text is with a WebTV. Also the default font size is 18, I believe. Which is a little big, but you can make it smaller.
I also use X and KDE on my Playstation 2 Linux kit. The console is fine on a TV, I think it's 80x30, very legible. In X on a TV I'm stuck with a 640x448 display, which is better than the default 640x404. (there's a tweak that removes the black borders around the PS2 Linux X screen) My default font is Helvetica 12, which is OK but I wouldn't want anything much smaller. I'm tempted to knock it up to size 13, which would help with legibility a bit. Anyways, modern TV screens have display quality than the screens we all hooked up our Atari's and Commodores to, so I think a modern home computer in the spirit of the old 8-bits is feasible. Heck, more than feasible, my PS2 IS a home computer.
It takes a bit to get used to gamepads, I had this problem when I got my NES, I had been used to Atari 2600 joysticks. But, I found I could play longer and with less fatigue with a joypad than with a stick. I find the fine control is better too.
Looky what I have attached toone of my PS2's USB ports, a keyboard and my keyboard has a USB port for you guessed it, a mouse. I also have mice for my SNES and PSone.
The epicenter of electronic gaming has always been with the consoles. PC gamers have just been too shortsighted to realize that.
Here's some responses to the standard PC gamer statements I've seen.
The control's suck, I would hate to play genre X on a console: Then why do PC gamepads look suspiciously like dual shocks? Because gamepads are better general purpose gaming input devices. If a game is designed well it doesn't NEED a keyboard and as for mice, every console since the Genesis has had a mouse. As for the games themselves, most PC games ported to the consoles control pretty well, because they altered them to do so. For some of them you can even use a mouse if you want, though in many cases it really isn't necessary. Quake 2 was fine on the PSone as were the Command and Conquer's.
Your console will be obsolete within a year: Sometimes it seems to me that PC gamers are more interested in the technology of games and bragging about frame rates and resolutions than actually playing the games. A console gamer can buy NEW games for his console on average for 5 years after it comes out. Can a PC gamer buy NEW games that will run on a 1997 PC? Will you be able to run DOOM III on a 1997 PC? I think not.
Console games are too kiddy and aren't cerebral: Maybe the PC gamers who say this only notice the cutesy mascot games or something or haven't owned a console since the NES. There's plenty of cerebral games for consoles. Carnage Heart? Final Fantasy Tactics? Persona? Even chess. Besides the most popular genre of PC games is the FPS isn't it. It isn't like the old days of the 80's when half the PC gamers were bearded tabletop wargamers who wanted turn based wargames on hex maps and lots of dungeon crawling RPG's.
You'll never play game X on a console: PC gamers who say this haven't learned from the past. This was said about the original DOOM, which was eventually released for the following consoles: Genesis 32X, SNES, PSone, Saturn, N64, Jaguar, 3D0, and recently for the GBA. This was also said about: Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft, C&C, Quake, UT, Half life, Sim City, Civilization, MYST, Deus Ex, X-com, Hexen, Wing Commander and many others. You'll be able to play Everquest and the Sims on a console too, relatively soon.
I can play online with a PC: I can play online with my console with a broadband connection. In fact I DO play online with my console.
I can use my PC for things other than gaming, I can create web pages, read e-mail, browse the web, use AIM, etc: So can I, I do have Linux installed in my PS2.
I can create Mod's for games and even design my own games. Why would you want to do game developers work for them? Wouldn't you rather want to PLAY games. I can understand this point if your goal is to become a game designer but otherwise. One CAN use the PS2 Linux kit to develop games.
Games look like crap on TV's: That isn't the consoles fault, they have to cater to the lowest common denominator of displays. Though every console since the NES has supported outputs other than RF that give better displays. Consoles nowadays do support component output. Besides the most important thing about games is GAMEPLAY, not the resolution of the display. A good game is a good game whether it be 320x200 or 1900 by whatever. Maybe PC gamers are too picky, I've got X and KDE running at 640x448 and it's quite usable. Higher resolutions are better, but not something to be obsessed over.
PC gamers need to stop worrying and love the console. It's the past, present and future of electronic gaming.
Blizzards always been console friendly, considering they started out developing for the consoles. It's about time they did another console game but I was hoping for a PS2 port of Diablo 2. I really liked the PSone port of Diablo, good game even with same screen multiplayer. I haven't played the PSone port of Warcraft to see how good it was.
Blizzaard did do one thing dumb, port Starcraft to the N64, a console without an RTS fanbase (every other console RTS was on the PSone), a mouse , or a link cable.
It always annoys me when PD developers ignore the consoles, take Ion Storm for example. They create what is essentially a console RPG/homage to Squaresoft in Anachronox and they DON"T port it to the PS2, a machine with a huge RPG loving fanbase? That's just plain stupid, Anachronox would have sold a lot more copies to the RPG gamers on the PS2 than to the console hating PC gamers.
This thing has been getting mentioned in the various video game magazines for months now. And if you read the Linksys page for this product you'll see what market it's intended for.
Say you've got broadband in your den and your Playstation 2 (with Network Adapter) is in the living room. Your PS2 obviously can't accept or configure a traditional wireless card. That's where the WET11 comes in. I bet these little suckers will sell like hotcakes once "consumer device" owners learn about them. They came along at the right time too, with SOCOM and the PS2 NA being released. The price isn't too bad either.
I'm using one with my PS2 myself, along with a BEFW11S4 ver 2 router.
Yep, I'm using it with my PS2 and a BEFW11S4 ver 2 router. No problems so far, but it only arrived yesterday. I haven't had to set up any sort of port forwarding to get the setup working with SOCOM. The voice chat works fine.
A couple of minor notes. I haven't been able to properly set up WEP since none of my PS2 Linux browsers work very well with my routers setup page. I can't access the WET11's setup page at all.
Internet speed seems about as fast as a direct connection of my PS2 to my cable modem. However it takes longer to connect to IRC servers than before.
I bought the WET11 and my router with the express purpose of using them with my PS2.
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See, the average gamer doesn't make mods. Gamers who post here on /. are more into that sort of thing. So really the lack of mods on the consoles is a non-issue because the mainstream of gaming simply doesn't care.
I play online with my console (Ps2) and I don't have to pay anything.
You can create great games that work well with a gamepad. I wouldn't want to play any 3D platformer with a keyboard. Besides if the keyboard+mouse are so great why does every PC magazine have ads for Pc gamepads that look suspiciously like Dual Shocks. I'll tell you why: Keyboards suck for gaming, they were designed for data entry, not for fast action. Your games are designed to use the mouse and keyboard, whoop de do, so it might be difficult to port the control to the gamepad. My games are designed to use the gamepad and you simply could would not want to play them with a keyboard, again whoop de do. You can buy gamepads, I can buy keyboards and mice (I have a mouse and keyboard hooked up to my PS2), so control is a non issue. As for online gaming, don't forget the PS2, been playing online since this summer, first THPS3, and now SOCOM.
You see, unlike PC gamers who have long waits for games, console gamers can actually buy new games for their systems on a regular basis, therefore there is no need for mods and expansion packs to keep the gameplay going. Console developer simply have much higher ouput. There's more to gaming than FPS's and mods. Besides consoles and their games simply sell more, always have, always will. IT is the PC games that are the "small part of the gaming world", though I would consider it more of a "niche" market.
There's a lot more diversity in console controllers now. Mice, keyboards, wheels, big joysticks are available. I would like to know which FPS's and RTS's you have played on a console with a controller. Every one of them I have played has controlled fine, thank you very much. Maybe you are just too picky. You can, of course, use mice with many console FPS's and RTS's. Console players don't obsess over new levels or anything because lots of new games come out on a regular basis for them. You PC gamers have such long waits that you need those mods to keep playing. I am of the personal opinion that players should not do the developers work for them. Maybe if there weren't so many mods PD developers might get off their rear ends and actually start making games at a decent clip. There are console games that do let you create your own levels, like Timesplitters. There's also the RPG Maker series. And if you have a PLaystation 2 Linux kit, you can make your own games.
If there is Linux source available you might be able to play it on a Playstation 2 with the Linux kit installed. :-)
You can play quake and starcraft on the consoles you know. And where do you come off with that kiddy nonsense. SOCOM? Metal Gear Solid? Grand Theft Auto?, Carnage Heart? Final Fantasy Tactics? Fear Effect? Resident Evil? Silent Hill? maybe you should try playing more than sports or fighting games on your console.
The following consoles have had mice available for them: SNES, Genesis, Saturn, Playstation 1, Dreamcast, Playstation 2 (via it's USB ports). Where do you get that "only available for the PC" bit
I can read email, browse the web, IM, using my Playstation 2 Linux kit which is an OFFICIAL Sony product by the way. I will argue with you on the controls. I simply can't understand how PC gamers can actually control an action game with a keyboard. I've tried it and it's very non-intuitive. IMHO keyboards are for data entry, not gaming. Mice, I like. I prefer using mouse look for PS1 FPS's, but that is a lot harder on the wrist than using the analog sticks. All PS2's have USB ports so you can hook up a keyboard and mouse if you want, and some games support it, almost all of them FPS's. As for replayability, console players have enough new games available that they can actually go buy new ones rather than keep modding old ones. It doesn't take a console developer forever to do a sequel to a game, probably because console developers actually have lots of people working on games. Unlike PC developers who still have a sort of garage band mentality. As for availability, most of the better PC games get ported to the consoles, the reverse is also true, though you PC gamers are not going to be able to play many SquareSoft games.
SOCOM, up to 16 players in two 8 player teams. Where have you been for the last two months not to have heard about this. There's also Tribes and Twisted Metal Black Online. The PS2 MMORPGS Everquest and Final Fantasy XI come out next year.
Lets see, there's BSD on the Dreamcast, those Linux on the XBox fellows, and the official Playstation 2 Linux kit (http://playstation2-linux.com). Don't think anyone's ported anything to the Gamecube yet.
Maybe an older version of KDE would run faster. I'm using KDE1 on a machine with a 294 MHz CPU and 32 MB of RDRAM. Got plenty of HD space, 40 gigs. I've tried KDE2 on this box and it's slow, expecially Konqeuror, but KDE1 runs alright. Of course my unusual CPU (R5900) might run some apps more efficeintly than others.
Actually we can't possibly know whether the Pippin would have been a failure or not since it was never released in the US. There are successful set top boxes except they aren't called that, they are called video game consoles. You could browse the web on the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast. In Japan the Dreamcast accessed the WebTV service, though it didn't in the US. The Playstation 2 can browse the web too, if you have one of the Linux kits. IMHO the set top boxes of the future will simply be descendants of the current video game consoles. Also, though WebTV might not be considered a total success, it has outlasted all challengers, even in it's pre Microsoft days. When it comes to "Internet on television" WebTV is the one to beat.
Microsoft did not design WebTV/MSNTV, they just bought WebTV a few years ago. Twas ex Apple folks under the name of Artemis that actually designed the boxes and started the company. Lasted a couple of years until MS bought them.
Do you mean an Epic FastLoad or a Final Cartridge? Probably on eBay. Though you might try out JiffyDOS instead. It's a chip solution to the drive speed problem.
I think WebTV does something like this to make it's fonts legible on TV. Amazing how clear most text is with a WebTV. Also the default font size is 18, I believe. Which is a little big, but you can make it smaller. I also use X and KDE on my Playstation 2 Linux kit. The console is fine on a TV, I think it's 80x30, very legible. In X on a TV I'm stuck with a 640x448 display, which is better than the default 640x404. (there's a tweak that removes the black borders around the PS2 Linux X screen) My default font is Helvetica 12, which is OK but I wouldn't want anything much smaller. I'm tempted to knock it up to size 13, which would help with legibility a bit. Anyways, modern TV screens have display quality than the screens we all hooked up our Atari's and Commodores to, so I think a modern home computer in the spirit of the old 8-bits is feasible. Heck, more than feasible, my PS2 IS a home computer.
It takes a bit to get used to gamepads, I had this problem when I got my NES, I had been used to Atari 2600 joysticks. But, I found I could play longer and with less fatigue with a joypad than with a stick. I find the fine control is better too.
I wouldn't say that, after all I have a keyboard and mouse hooked up to my PS2.
Looky what I have attached toone of my PS2's USB ports, a keyboard and my keyboard has a USB port for you guessed it, a mouse. I also have mice for my SNES and PSone.
Both Myst and Myst 2 were ported to the PSone. Myst 3 just got ported to the PS2.
The epicenter of electronic gaming has always been with the consoles. PC gamers have just been too shortsighted to realize that. Here's some responses to the standard PC gamer statements I've seen. The control's suck, I would hate to play genre X on a console: Then why do PC gamepads look suspiciously like dual shocks? Because gamepads are better general purpose gaming input devices. If a game is designed well it doesn't NEED a keyboard and as for mice, every console since the Genesis has had a mouse. As for the games themselves, most PC games ported to the consoles control pretty well, because they altered them to do so. For some of them you can even use a mouse if you want, though in many cases it really isn't necessary. Quake 2 was fine on the PSone as were the Command and Conquer's. Your console will be obsolete within a year: Sometimes it seems to me that PC gamers are more interested in the technology of games and bragging about frame rates and resolutions than actually playing the games. A console gamer can buy NEW games for his console on average for 5 years after it comes out. Can a PC gamer buy NEW games that will run on a 1997 PC? Will you be able to run DOOM III on a 1997 PC? I think not. Console games are too kiddy and aren't cerebral: Maybe the PC gamers who say this only notice the cutesy mascot games or something or haven't owned a console since the NES. There's plenty of cerebral games for consoles. Carnage Heart? Final Fantasy Tactics? Persona? Even chess. Besides the most popular genre of PC games is the FPS isn't it. It isn't like the old days of the 80's when half the PC gamers were bearded tabletop wargamers who wanted turn based wargames on hex maps and lots of dungeon crawling RPG's. You'll never play game X on a console: PC gamers who say this haven't learned from the past. This was said about the original DOOM, which was eventually released for the following consoles: Genesis 32X, SNES, PSone, Saturn, N64, Jaguar, 3D0, and recently for the GBA. This was also said about: Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft, C&C, Quake, UT, Half life, Sim City, Civilization, MYST, Deus Ex, X-com, Hexen, Wing Commander and many others. You'll be able to play Everquest and the Sims on a console too, relatively soon. I can play online with a PC: I can play online with my console with a broadband connection. In fact I DO play online with my console. I can use my PC for things other than gaming, I can create web pages, read e-mail, browse the web, use AIM, etc: So can I, I do have Linux installed in my PS2. I can create Mod's for games and even design my own games. Why would you want to do game developers work for them? Wouldn't you rather want to PLAY games. I can understand this point if your goal is to become a game designer but otherwise. One CAN use the PS2 Linux kit to develop games. Games look like crap on TV's: That isn't the consoles fault, they have to cater to the lowest common denominator of displays. Though every console since the NES has supported outputs other than RF that give better displays. Consoles nowadays do support component output. Besides the most important thing about games is GAMEPLAY, not the resolution of the display. A good game is a good game whether it be 320x200 or 1900 by whatever. Maybe PC gamers are too picky, I've got X and KDE running at 640x448 and it's quite usable. Higher resolutions are better, but not something to be obsessed over. PC gamers need to stop worrying and love the console. It's the past, present and future of electronic gaming.
Blizzards always been console friendly, considering they started out developing for the consoles. It's about time they did another console game but I was hoping for a PS2 port of Diablo 2. I really liked the PSone port of Diablo, good game even with same screen multiplayer. I haven't played the PSone port of Warcraft to see how good it was. Blizzaard did do one thing dumb, port Starcraft to the N64, a console without an RTS fanbase (every other console RTS was on the PSone), a mouse , or a link cable. It always annoys me when PD developers ignore the consoles, take Ion Storm for example. They create what is essentially a console RPG/homage to Squaresoft in Anachronox and they DON"T port it to the PS2, a machine with a huge RPG loving fanbase? That's just plain stupid, Anachronox would have sold a lot more copies to the RPG gamers on the PS2 than to the console hating PC gamers.
This thing has been getting mentioned in the various video game magazines for months now. And if you read the Linksys page for this product you'll see what market it's intended for.
Say you've got broadband in your den and your Playstation 2 (with Network Adapter) is in the living room. Your PS2 obviously can't accept or configure a traditional wireless card. That's where the WET11 comes in. I bet these little suckers will sell like hotcakes once "consumer device" owners learn about them. They came along at the right time too, with SOCOM and the PS2 NA being released. The price isn't too bad either.
I'm using one with my PS2 myself, along with a BEFW11S4 ver 2 router.
Yep, I'm using it with my PS2 and a BEFW11S4 ver 2 router. No problems so far, but it only arrived yesterday. I haven't had to set up any sort of port forwarding to get the setup working with SOCOM. The voice chat works fine.
A couple of minor notes. I haven't been able to properly set up WEP since none of my PS2 Linux browsers work very well with my routers setup page. I can't access the WET11's setup page at all.
Internet speed seems about as fast as a direct connection of my PS2 to my cable modem. However it takes longer to connect to IRC servers than before.
I bought the WET11 and my router with the express purpose of using them with my PS2.