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What's Keeping You On Windows?
schnell asks: "Here's something I've wondered about for a long time. While it seems that the majority of Slashdot readers are no fans of Microsoft, recent polls show that 47% of Slashdot Users are using Windows as their main OS (and I bet that number is much higher in server logs). So I have a two-fold question: 1) Is it just the 'vocal minority' that favors alternate OSes over Linux and 2) if not, what's keeping you from 'putting your money where your mouth is' - why are you using Windows? My own situation is that I use an IT-mandated Win98 (ugh) laptop at work, but at home I'm Mac OS X all the way. While I did pay Microsoft for Office for Mac, I try to avoid filling their coffers whenever possible, so for all the family/friends who rely on me for computer recommendations I recommend Mac or Linux. Do people like using Windows? Are games the driving factor? Or is it just 'the right tool for the job?'" It's a perennial question, and one that is fitting to review every so often, if only to see how far Open Source has come, and how far it needs to go.
Why the Microsoft ads on Slashdot of course!
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If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
porn is keping me on windows.
"If a quarter is two bits, then a dollar's a byte." -R Deric Miller
Games, interoperability with others at work (OpenOffice is good but not a perfect replacement), and the ability to maybe get a first post? ;)
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
my phb
No, Vern. They just let him in.
Only reason.
Is the stability. Also the vast number of easy to come by applications. And they all meet or exceed industry standards everywhere. Microsoft Word and other Office apps are what get taught in school, and it's what I'm glad to have learned. And for development, I was lucky enough to go to a place that taught in Visual C++.
Cuz most of the warez out there is for Windoze.
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
The ability to use just about any application in a crash free environment.
I've been using win2000 since it was leaked and the only reason why it has crashed (on two completely different platforms) is becuase of bad initial drivers back in nov of 1999.
Why would I use anything else? I don't run a server.
It is completly the games for myself, plus if it is a family computer Windows is easier for the kids to load up there favourite games.
As a telecommuter, Software to work with SQL Server, to work with my companies Access timesheet software, NetMeeting for meetings, ANYthing having to do with games.
Face it. Msft has the developer community and it shows. They beat OS/2 not by technical merit, but by software titles. They will beat GNU/linux-or-whatever too. Face it. They own. They won't let it slip away. Switch to Windows now. If not for your own sake, then do it for your children. You want to see them become productive adults don't you? Then why bother compiling your own kernel or whatever you propeller heads to to make your *nix flavors work.
Video codecs. Audio codecs. MIDI. I think this will be solved though quite soon--Linux 2.5 is now integrated with ALSA, and GStreamer is looking very slick.
Can't get a real internet connection in my area :-(
Twenties Retirement
Warcraft III
...and all the other PC games that I can't do without. I'm a Java developer, so when it comes to my professional life, I couldn't care less what OS I work on (whatever's cheapest usually wins). But when it comes to my personal life, I choose Windows because I'm a gamer, and windows makes gaming easy (at least, easier than it would be on Linux or a Mac)
We are windows shop, but at home its mandrake. Not like I use the computer much at home...8-10 hours at work it enough for me (and my eyes).
I run about 90 percent linux. My main workstations are all linux, and I dual boot for games alone. Once games are done, I boot back into linux. I use linux at work, linux on my servers, linux everywhere. I can play counter-strike in WINE, but since it doesn't support voice communication, it can't be used all the time (plus, standard WINE's handling of OpenGL games is pretty poor). Linux provides me with literally everything I need, except games..
I do fiddle around with Linux and FreeBSD, and have boxes dedicated to both (plus a Solaris box), but my most expensive system is a Windows box. And there's one reason: games.
The fact of the matter is games are just a lot cheaper and more plentiful on Windows than on Linux, or even a Mac.
1) While windows is evil, it has more high end games that run on it. 2) Mac HARDWARE is still over-priced compared to similar PC stuff that you can get cheaply in good quality.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
I dual boot Linux/Windows 2000 Pro and Windows is only started for games these days. I have finally converted to most of my day to day tasks to Linux apps and am generally happy with them. I think the last time I used a Windows app was about six months ago (Excel?).
I suspect laziness is a big factor, but I think that says more about me than the typical slashdot user.
We do lots of graphics work here. We need all sorts of apps -- Photoshop, After Effects, 3DS Max, Combustion, etc, etc... I can run all of them under Windows. Some aren't ported to Linux, not all run on the Mac, either.
It's always been the applications that have driven things. Still the same today.
I like linux a lot, but I'm tired of the constant updating I have to do in order to get features that already work in Windows. My biggest beef, however, is with the KDE, which doesn't seem to be very backwards compatible or upgrade friendly with every major release they come out with. So fuck 'em!
"On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog!" - a dog
Same reason people are still using Windows. Change is hard for all of us I guess.
I don't use Microsoft Windows at home. I'm useing the Slackware 8.1 distro right now. At work I'm forced to use Windows because of the Public folders / group calendar of Exchange. Also Crystal Repoets, MAX, Dynamics, etc... all the applications that we can't live without.
zenray
Nothing. I'm on a w2k machine right now. B/c I'm at work. The tools I use here are windows only. That is why. Personally I run RH7.3/W2K/BeOS at home and miss out on nothing.
"If a quarter is two bits, then a dollar's a byte." -R Deric Miller
I use Windows only for games. Why can't we port DirectX to Nix?
The only reason I even have XP installed on my laptop is because I was forced to pay for it, so I might as well have it if I need it.
My home computer and my work computer are both Linux, and I only boot my laptop into windows ~1/month.
Doug
Venn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer? Ya! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
I don't have Windows since early this year. :-)
Games games games. You wanna play, your choices are Windows or console. Other OSes aren't even a consideration.
Bite the hand.
It's because Microsoft's quite excellent PR Firm was paid to stuff the ballot box.
"This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane."
Oh no wait, they must of been stuffing the mac OS X one.. They always seem to get confused on which product they are tryign to advertise. Poor MS...
1. Games
2. Work
1. Until ALL games run under Linux without much difficulty, I simply don't have any choice here. Nearly all the Xbox and PS/2 games in the world don't hold up to a single quality PC game.
2. I work at a Microsoft only shop. It's sad, it's infuriating, and I have little choice. To VPN into work, connect to source safe, upload code to the servers, run terminal services, connect to SQL Server 2000 (Microsoft's only GOOD non-gaming product) I have to use windows.
If I were to install linux a home after all that is 'my' computer. My gf would flip out even though all she does on the computer is browse the web and use word. My son would freak because all his games would no longer work. not to mention my duaghter who would skin me alive if her barbie thing game didn't work. As for my work environment as soon as AutoCAD is ported over to Linux I will happily port all our stations over. In the mean time only our firewalls and webservers are linux.
Games are the driving factor for high end PC development. The Game indusry is the reason the new Intel Chips are a big deal.
Windows runs the most games and it has the highest amount of commerical games released on it.
If you guys want to get off of Windows(C) forever start to play board games. I Recommend "The Settles of Catan" it's an awesome game or just go play Risk.
Got Extra Money?
Let's face it, other than M$ Office replacements and Maya, there aren't many "killer apps" available for the Linux _desktop_.
I won't personally switch until there is a Linux port of Photoshop and Logic Audio (pro music package).
I want to switch over to Linux, but between a full time job and going to school I just haven't had time to devote to a switchover. I am trying to get my company to switch machines over to Linux so I can learn on their time.
I would have to say that the gui's response time for basic applications such as web browsing is a tough item to let go of. But, as much as I hate to say it, the integration between software (such as the synergy between MS office, ie, and the operating system) is something that just isn't matched yet on the desktop. Hopefully, someday soon, though.
One App:
Adobe Photoshop
Photoshop runs under Wine, I've heard, but not well. Also, type support, which is highly necessary for any kind of decent design work, is miserable under most linux WM's.
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I check slashdot from the office. I only have a windows maching on my desk. Though I make sure I use mozilla.
Visit Savagenumber.com
It's the same reason that we use gas-guzzling cars instead of solar helicopters, or why we eat slimy hamburgers instead of cooking our own nutritious food, or why we watch shitty tv shows instead of engaging our imaginations in classic literature...
It's easier, and we're willing to forsake quality in exchange for something which requires less effort, or we just don't HAVE the option of an alternative.
-2 (too easy)
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
i think linux sucks as desk-top os. would love to move to osX but don't want over-priced and under-powered hardware ... besides, window is free, no?
What's keeping me on Windows is that I don't have to worry about missing libraries when I install applications. The windows GUI is very sharp and much faster then the gui on linux. If i move a window using KDE or GNOME or blackbox the window moves with trailers behind and slow. Games also keep me on windows. From time to time I like to play games that are not supported on linux. Basically windows is very easy to use. When i browse online I don't want to worry about a missing library or something is wrong with the system.
I do all sorts of stuff with my computer, and I have no desire to search through text files or obscure documentation to find if a piece of hardware will work with my computer. I stick with Windows98se because I can watch Divx movies, edit my videos, make music with fruityloops, and do all the other things that probably work on linux, but work fine on 98. I dont need rock-solid stability since I turn my computer off at night, anyways.
Its about the games, as I am sure it is for many ./ers. I want to be able to play WC3, Sims, Neverwinter Nights and Unreal 2k3. You cant do this on linux, no way. Not even with WINE, (good luch getting it to work, and its no where near as stable as XP). And while you have the OS up for gaming, its just easier to keep it up for surfing and email etc. Before you know it, its your full time OS, except when you go out of your way to use linux. I do coding on my laptop, which runs linux, but I am not a full time coder, so XP gets more CPU Time.
I don't have a bootable CD-ROM or Floppy on my laptop! Grrr. Force me to use XP. Argh! It hasnt driven me insane, yet.
You want people to use Open Source, yet you use a Mac? Can you get any more proprietary than that?
As the subject line says, I've got far too much invested in Windows software over the years to easily change to another operating system. Besides, I like Windows XP. I like Linux more, from what I've seen playing with a CD distro anyway, but not enough to make the change. I'm sure I'm not alone being in this position.
Though I do enjoy using Linux, there are a few things that make me stick with Windows. Games are a biggy, though I can survive usually with just my Playstation2. Another large factor is speed. Linux tends to be pretty slow in terms of GUI responsiveness, though I've had much less trouble with that in RH8. Then, Linux can be a hassle to use. RPMs, compiling compilers to compile a windows emulator gets kinda old...it's fun at first, but sometimes I wish I could just click things and have them install/run. I hate editing config files, too. This complexity is probably the main reason I'm still on Windows. I don't want to have to make a CVS build of WineX to play my games and use my filesharing programs. I don't want to edit a config file to make such and such program run. Linux is fun, but for my purposes, it's really just inconvenient sometimes.
I run Linux on a laptop to play around with, but XP on my main computer. My biggest problem with Linux I find is the difficulty of installing things. I spend more time trying to install something, then finding out I need 'libXXXXX' or install some random packages. There needs to be some kind of utility that figures out dependencies, then goes and DOWNLOADS AND INSTALLS THEM for you. Until then, installing software on Windows is wayyy easier. Plus, I've spent more time trying to get decent DVD performance than anything else. Yuck.
I must admit that starting 3 years ago I started preaching the power of linux even though I was, at that time, using windows. Before the mutterings of hypocrite, ignoramus, and sham, let me say this: I desperately wanted to stop using windows, but I was afraid. I was afraid of going over to a platform that, even though I knew was better, was unfamiliar to me as a beginner. Once I did switch though, I ne ver looked back. I will also say that I also sleep better at night now that I can back up my statements with action!
Like everyone else, the last machine I bought came with Windows installed. It's worked fine for me, runs the games I want to run and I haven't seen any need to change.
If I bought a box with Linux pre-installed, I'd probably be running Linux right now. Absent a powerful reason to switch my OS, I'm not going to switch.
Nothing earthshaking.
Games. Also, my courses all required Windows software for my undergrad. Except now for grad work at different college, everything is Mac.
Linux is just too much learning required for my own personal casual use.
You haven't seen it yet, have you? =) It is so pretty.
There's a certain 'polish' to the OS that I don't see on Linux. Windows doesn't look like it's been thrown together by god knows how many people, each having their own way of doing things. In Windows, someone set a standard, and each app follows that standard.
That's not to say that with a little bit of nudging, that wouldn't change at all. But without quick access to those kinds of resources, it makes the jump that much harder.
Maybe I should slap a machine together and tinker around for a while. Does anyone have suggestions for people trying to make the leap?
Various windoze on 8 of 9 PCs. Number nine is a Cyrix233 running freeBSD set up as a router box.
Logic Audio. Only reason.
My situation is that my employer-provided machine HAS to run win2k, because that's our platform (not my call, believe me :)). My laptop runs Mandrake 9 right now, I'm considering switching back to gentoo. my gateway and fileserver is a linux box, which i also use as a desktop via the win32 x server from xfree86.cygwin.com. so i'm essentially a sheep in wolf's clothing, using linux as my primary desktop of choice, while doing what minimal tasks i have to in windows.
Have you used Gnome or KDE recently? When I need to get something done without having to deal with various application crashes, I'm much more impressed by the stability of Windows 2000 and XP.
Bash Mico$oft all you want, but so long as they keep producing a superior desktop product, I will continue to use it.
The main things that keep me in Windows are games, and MS Office.
:)]
I've gotten some games running with Transgaming's Winex, but I'm still waiting for NWN, and some games just don't work in wine.
Also MS Office. I know I can get Crossover Office, but I don't have the $$ to pay for it. And since I'm looking for a job, all the companies and recruiters want the resume in word format. [Lame,I know, but that's what they want]. And I don't yet trust ANY of the linux office apps to write a resume that won't come out screwy on some HR persons system.
Other than that, I almost always use Linux. I've got all the plugin stuff going with Crossover plugin [bought when I had $$
Although another annoying thing is the difficulty in setting certain things up. I don't use a 'user friendly' distro [I use SourceMage and Slackware] but even so, it is WAY too much of a pain in the ass to get printing set up in a way that will let EVERYTHING print properly...
Things like that are keeping me from going 100% linux.
Ender
Nothing to see here
So what we need is for some hot shot high end graphics game company to fully support Linux/Mac.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
The biggest reason is, of course, Office--OpenOffice still doesn't handle emdashes, which means it's not worth the time to learn for me yet.
Ease of setup is the other big one--I don't want my computer to ever expect me to go into a command line to set something, and I don't have a desire to learn UNIX commands just to use my overgrown typewriter.
(That reminds me--gotta give Linux its fair chance this weekend, which means no writing in Windows for me... I'll post a journal to let y'all know if it works out bearably.)
I have three computers at work and another three at home and you will never ever find a microsoft product on any machine of mine...
Got Code?
I dual boot, so nothing really. I only boot into XP when I have coursework to complete...VB, or the constraint of having to use JBuilder for Java projects. I also use Office just for convieience and courtesy. The last thing I want to do when I give a large presentation is explain to a classroom of management majors why MS is evil :)
Since I have a PS2, games aren't really an issue, and the rest of my work/dabbling are done in FreeBSD!
Macs as a fetish property
I was one of the slashdot users who did use windows even thoough I knew linux and have been running it off and on for five years. I know, I know.
But in May I discovered Gentoo, and I haven't booted to my windows partition since then. Not even for games.
16:27:40 up 71 days, 51 min, 1 user, load average: 0.48, 0.38, 0.27
That's enough reason for me to stay in Linux. I don't think I'll go back. However, when Mandrake first came out, I thought the same way. Mandrake was fast current RedHat, and I liked that. But I got tired of it. Gentoo opened my eyes to what a Linux-From-Scratch type distribution could be like intended for those who don't have time for LFS.
My recommendation for those who want Linux but keep hanging on to Windows is find a distro you like. I did, and I'm very happy about it. Please try, because you will be happy too.
I use straight gentoo linux at work. At home however I'm on Windows 2000 because the MIS staff where I work is uses some Sidewinder firewall and they'll only support the Softnet VPN client. So I'm stuck on Windows for telecommuting. Of course the VPN works like crap anyway.
I suggested that they use the LEAF Project firewall so I could use any number of open clients. Not mention that LEAF is free. My boss considered it, but then realized that our MIS staff is a bunch of jackanapes and that they needed to pay for support. I totally understood.
So if anyone knows better than I how to connect to the Sidewinder firewall from linux, feel free to let me know.
Also Medal of Honor and Battlefield 1942 keep me entertained.
"More organs means more human." - Zim
The only time I use windows is at work... everywhere else I use Mac OS X.
No matter how fast they make the drivers, no matter how much they optimize it - a client-server based desktop environment is ALWAYS going to be slower than a non-c/s solution. X continues to feel just a bit sluggardly on all my systems, even with the latest, fanciest drivers from whoever.
The second biggest problem I have with Linux is stability. Linux itself is a rock, but I have not used a single X app that hasn't crashed at least once. It's a dismal record. There's no accountability for bugs, so they're only fixed when someone feels like it. I've managed and worked on a few open source projects, and without corporate backing, guess what -- homework, real work, and personal preference come first. Unless you've got some really dedicated guys, shit doesn't get done.
I want Linux to succeed. I really do. I don't see how it's ever going to do it relying on X, and I don't see the desktop environments coming anywhere near more polished corporate-funded alternatives. Mac OS X is pretty, tight, simple, and as powerful as Linux, but I have to have a Mac to run it. Windows 2000 is vanilla, stable, boring, and runs on anything, but I don't LOVE using it. I would love for Linux to be a real alternative, but it simply isn't.
Ditch X and come up with a really solid desktop environment that doesn't require it, and I'll be back in a heartbeat.
In no particular order:
Games - duh
Ease of use - Linux is NOWHERE near ready for prime time, it takes too much to set it all up to be runable. Sure you can just install it and (if the install works) just use it, but it is not as simple as windows to setup.
Cost - just for the mac side though. I would love to run OSX but the cost for mac hardware is rediculous.
Opensource in general - sure there are some great apps out there that you can just download and either install or compile yourself, but I don't want to have to go out and hunt for what I need, the OS should come with everything I need or it should be extremely easy to find it.
Every so often a memo comes out reminding us that we must have the latest Norton Anti-Virus. NAV is not supported on Linux, so I have to power on the Windows box to update my virus protection. Except for that it stays off.
I use the less evil windows though: Windows 2000.
...don't fix it. My win machines do what I need them to. When that's not the case anymore, maybe I'll do something about it, but until then, changing everything would just create more headaches than running with what I have.
-72
-Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
games
keeps me on windows... i haven't been able to get my ibook on the network. freaking novell client.
User Interface. Linux desktop imitates Windoze which imitates MacOS.
Linux still has a long way to go until its interface is as clean and easy as Windows. I'm no fan of MS, but my productivity is much higher on Windows and I have fewer headaches (especially with regard to configuration.)
--Nick
The Asian Language Support. I can seamlessly switch between Japanese and Chinese input with windows. It is a lot more cumbersome in linux. Aside from that...there are certain programs that are just not available for linux systems and won't function under a windows emulator (or WINE for that matter) which are a neccesity(namely certain CD-R software, and file-sharing software).
I stay on Windows because I've been using one flavor or another of it for years. I have a large amount of learning time invested in it and I think I have it figured out pretty well. I support Windows NT 4 and Windows 2000 at work, and I use Windows XP at home.
I know how to use it. It plays all the games I want to play. It browses the web. When my mom can't check her e-mail, I can Remote Desktop into her computer and fix her problems for her.
Could Linux serve me just as well? Probably. Do I already know how to use it? No. Do I have any incentive to learn? Well...beyond the principle of the thing, I really don't. Three semesters of C in collge taught me that I'm not a programmer, so a huge chunk of what I understand it the big attraction of Linux--that I can rip a program apart and make it work My Way if I don't like it--doesn't apply to me.
Hey, I love Linux. I'm sure it's great, and after reading Slashdot for almost three years I can tell you a whole lot of good things about it. I don't use it because I've got a good thing going with Windows. I'm comfortable, and we fear change. It's cold outside, and the wolves are after me.
While the linux desktop is catching up with Windows, it still not there. IE & Office + various common software are still better than their corresponding linux counterparts. You might not like it, but it is the truth. Now, server-side is a completely different story! Using the Windows desktop with a linux server (though ssh, ftp, etc) is a popular combination.
All the desktops in my company are Windows desktops. Mostly NT, but I am sure there are 2000 around. It is a rather large company at 7000 employees.
To sumarize, the answers around here are, mainly, two: games or work.
I really don't think the situation is gaing to improve in those two fronts in the inmediate future.
Oh, by the way, I use Debian when at home.
One thing stopping me from giving up Windows completely is VPN access. We use a Microsoft solution and I haven't found a good linux alternative. The other (and probably more important) is games. Not other apps though... although openoffice bugs are a little frustrating, productivity apps are pretty much there on linux.
If I could run Mac OSX on my current hardware, I would definitely consider dropping a hundred bucks or so to run that... it has a lot of the advatages of linux with way more spit and polish than windows.
My two cents :)
...reliable DVD playback. That's the only time I use Windows. The restof the time I'm sitting in FreeBSD. Of course, as soon as I get the money for a new laptop, I'll probably be OSX all the way.
Find funky gifts
The reason I still use Windows (XP) on my main machine at home is the amount of software readily available for it, or rather, the lack of software for Linux.
Before everybody screams that there are a ton of open source software projects and throw links to freshmeat.net at me, let me say that yes, you're right. However:
I've wanted to switch my main machine over to Linux for over a year now, but I need those features described above. When I can do all that, I'll switch. Until then, I'll be keeping Windows around.
Too late to be known as Bush the First, he's sure to be known as Bush the Worst.
The wife has a crappy laptop, so she uses my machine a lot. It's better if it's booted into Windows for that purpose, so I leave it there most of the time. Actually thinking about springing for a copy of VMWare. Would make switching OS's much quicker.
Just bought a new house. So I don't have much in the way of funds or free time at the moment. Maybe that'll change.
The rest of the world uses Microsoft software, so the only way to reach those people is to write in a format that they'll understand.
.xls file pefectly, Microsoft will change the standard in the next version just to spite you.
If you put up a web site and it doesn't render properly in Mozilla, that's a small annoyance. If it doesn't render properly in Internet Explorer, you're dead in the water. It's just that simple, you're publishing content and your audience can't see it.
That's the reason why most commerical software is written for Windows first, then ported to other OSes second. If you have an app that you want non-geeks to be able to use, you have to write for Windows.
If you want to be able to interact with other people, like read complex MS Excel spreadsheets, you have to have Excel. If open source ever figures out how to properly read an
Open source has overtaken Microsoft in the server space, but there's a long way to go until users adopt it. Until then, if you want to work with non-geeks, you have to maintain a Windows box.
While I use linux for just about everything, neverwinter nights and now battlefield 1942 are keeping me on windows.
for my girlfriend, her hp printer/fax/all-in-one is a bitch to set up, and I just don't have the time/expertise to fiddle with it.
oh, and usb support for her palm pilot. I talked to the author of palm link, and he wanted me to upgrade to an unstable kernel if I wanted any chance of it even coming close.
I decided it wasn't worth it. For now, she uses linux, but reboots every week or so to backup her palm pilot.
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I haven't found a debugger in linux that works nearly as well as the visual studio debugger for my c++ needs. I've tried everything except codewarrior.
But for home use, two areas still keep me using Windows. One, digital camera software seems to advance very quickly on Windows. While I know the functionality exists on gphoto and gimp, I find the autodownload, automount, filename tagging/sorting, automatic resizing depending on destination (for printer, web, or e-mail), and the ability to select specific paper profiles in Kodak Easyphoto fairly compelling for the everyday photo stuff. I like Gimp for heavy duty stuff but still find PhotoDeluexe to be more intuitive due to longtime Photoshop use. You can get part of the way with Win4Lin or Wine, but the paper profile stuff isn't so easy to do.
The second area - I still prefer Nero over all the Linux-based burning solutions, especially with its ability to handle so many disc formats. I hear Wine will now support Nero with DLLs, but I haven't got it to work myself.
Being a beginner to *nix (having only started running it for a couple years now), I mostly use Windows because of school. I am taking two webcourses at the moment, so I am constantly sending my instructors documents in Word format (correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume *nix can't save as Word formats). Also, I am in the programming curriculum and taking c# this semester so I am using VS .Net. As much as I enjoy slackware and learning about it, I am not comfortable nor knowledgable enough to go full-blown *nix only while I still depend on M$ apps.
I also get an occasional MS Office file and while there are products available for Linux that will allow me to work with these files, it's far simpler for me to pull them up in Office on my laptop. I also need to run Quicken and Quickbooks and so having my laptop running XP makes it all very convenient. It's a shame that I need to either boot into XP or use a second computer to get through the average day but that has been the easiest way that I have found.
Also, I don't have MS like a lot of people do. I do actually like some of their products and while I agree that they have some pretty bad business practices, a lot of security holes, and a list of other things to bitch about, I still find some of their products to be quite useful. I have a MS keyboard and a MS mouse that I really like. I use Office XP when I need to do a spreadsheet or write a business letter. I play Motocross Madness and Age of Empries on occasion. I use some Adobe products as well as other applications and games that aren't available in Linux and since I don't have a Mac, I'm SOL on being able to run OS X.
The more I think about the situation, the less I think that Linux will ever wipe out Windows. I don't think it will ever happen and I don't think that it should. It's all about choice and I do think that we will eventually reach a point where we are free to choose an operating system based solely on that os's merits (with all of the major apps being available for Win, Mac, and Linux).
Until everything that I want to use is available for Linux, I'll continue to contribue to the obscene profits of MS when they have a new program or an upgrade that I wish to purchase. I use whatever is best for the given task. Games, it's Windows. Work (for me) it's Linux. Graphics it's (if only I could afford to get one) Mac.
How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
Games are still built mainly for the MSWindows operating system, so moving away from MSWindows would be saying goodbye to a large portion of PC Games. I went two years in College without an MSWindows machine, and it's the accessibility to games that brought me back to having at least one box with it.
;)
I've always catered to the thought of having a Mac OS X machine, but I don't have the $2-3000 to dish out to get one, whereas my PC was built for much less. So currently that keeps me from going Mac.
If these two items are non-issues, then you have a much larger reason to go away from MSWindows. Myself, I keep an MSWindows box around for gaming and then Linux on my main system. I'll get the Mac when my company's market gets to looking better.
There is no question that I would rather be using Linux as my full time OS, and for the most part it is. However, I still find myself booting into Windows for my multimedia content creation needs. Mostly I'm talking about Adobe and Macromedia apps. I know I may recieve some booing for saying this to the /. crowd, but I still feel that their apps are more powerful and mature than any of their Linux counterparts. Also, I grew up on Photoshop... and while I know the GIMP is a decent competitor, I just can't get used to it's UI. Maybe it's poor UI design, maybe I'm just a creature of habit. As for Macromedia apps, I still love them for when I have to do some quick and dirty graphics (or Flash content). I'd rather not battle with the GIMP when I need something done quickly.
One more thing that I miss in Linux desktops is a mp3/audio player with a good interface. XMMS was great when I had a small collection, but now that my mp3/ogg server has swelled to around 70GB it just doesn't cut it. So far I just haven't found a Linux app that does as good of a job as iTunes, WMP, or RealONE. Rhythmbox shows promise though... can't wait for it's 1.0!
One a lighter note though, the Linux community has made SO much progress in the past few years. The apps are definitely coming along! I know that it's only a matter of time till all the application catch up with my expectations. I can't wait!
--->auttie
About 1700 pounds worth of games, when codeweavers finally deliver ask me again.
In work I use a Windows 2000 box because thats what management want to use as a standard. The servers I administer are almost all linux.
At home I have a dual boot Windows ME/Redhat PC and a Dedicatred Redhat PC. I use windows there for some architect software and games. Development is mostly done under linux (with recompiles under windows to test)
My home system dual-boots 'tween Win2K and SuSE Linux. Both halves are rather stable, and sufficiently familiar as to be quite usable. However, they have different uses...
The SuSE side gets used for programming, CD writing (mkisofs + cdrecord), browsing, writing (Emacs + LaTeX, since if I'm writing it's probably for a technical paper), and certain games (notably _Dominions_ -- the windows version interacts badly with my video driver).
The Windows side gets used for photo manipulation (first some Minolta software to change color spaces, then PSP, which I find far more useful than the Gimp *shrug*), some browsing (for sites that work better in IE than in Konqueror), and certain games (such as CM:BB). I've also used Excel to create far more presentable graphs than what Gnuplot provides, and Powerpoint for presentations.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
- Playing Games
- Web browsing
- IM
- SSHing to a linux box for IRC & email.
- PhotoShop
- Developing games and other graphicsy stuff (in my free time)
#2,#4 would be as easy or easier in linux. #1 and #5 would be limited/impossible. I really like Trillian Pro for #3, and I doubt there's a Jabber client that approaches its level of usability. And as for #6, while I do write portable code, I actually quite like Microsoft's development environment.I also like Window's GUI. I haven't tried X for a few years, so I'm sure it's less awful, but I haven't heard anyone even claim it's surpassed anything but its awful past.
Trees can't go dancing
So do them a big favor
Pretend dancing stinks!
I own NO Microsoft products. Both my desktop and my Dell laptop are running Redhat 7.3. I don't run Wine either. My systems are pure. No mark of the beast here.
Work -- almost all the companies I work for use it and mandate it. At home, I've been planning to install Linux onto my laptop for months, but keep not having the time. It is going to be a non-trivial task, unfortunately -- finding the drivers for a laptop isn't always easy.
Catherine
At work in the Office areas, its all Windows (per corporate mandate).
On the shop floor, its X-terminals running both HP-UX and Linux apps (per stable apps developed and refined over the past 8 years). Tight integration, works like a charm and solid. The search for new process control software tools is comming up with very little outside of windows stuff, but Unix/Linux compatibility is a big requirement for us. We're not going down the path to support nightmares for PC's on the shop floor like in other locations.
At home, Linux, except for games that aren't Tuxracer and GLTron, then I gotta run Win98.
I actually Dual boot Windows and Linux at home, and run windows and Solaris Sparc at work. I do Java Development so the platform isn't as important. But at home I always keep Windows because of Money. Not to mention I have data going back to 1995 on every financial transaction I have made. I can't easily move it to something else, and there is nothing worth moving it to. GNU Cash just isn't there, and I refuse to use a double entry accounting system. I am not an accountant and don't want that, I just want to add and subtract to and from my accounts and have decent reports to go along with it. Not to mention downloading new transactions from my credit card accounts, and pretty good 401k and stock tracking tools. The freesoftware just isn't there yet. But when it comes to programming and network monitoring I feel linux, or Solaris provide much better environments to work in.
1) believe it or notlinux desktop just isn't that great ;)
2) work
3) linux desktop isn't that great
I use Linux at home, but at work I have no choice but windows. I write embedded software, and the development tools (the only ones available for the processors I working with right now) are only available under Windows.
I've been trying to get them running under Wine, but no lock so far.
I've been switching to Linux friendly applications under Windows where ever possible. Open Office rules, I never use MS Office any more.
The world's reliance on MS Office demands that I have a Windows partition. If documents I create can not be read reliably on some one elses system they are of no use. I know that almost everyone else has Office so I can reliably write a document that I know will apear the same across the board. Until MS Office adheres to a document standard that has been accepted by everyone I am forced to use the the non-standard but widely accepted formats. Once a common non-prorietary format is accepted as the rule in the real world, I will have no reason to use Windows.
I'm buying my second iBook today. I have two PC's, a 500Mhz iBook and a couple Sun classic-era workstations that I play with. Windows is for gaming, pretty much says it all. Sure, my Windows machine is more upgradeable than my laptops, but for the past month I've been using the iBook constantly on the job and have no problem whatsoever with it except that I really like what apple has done to revamp the line. So what did I do?
Today I got a loan from Apple, and will be getting a new $1489 iBook. 800Mhz, 640M of RAM, 30G, and a 32M Radeon in it. Am I stoked? Fuck yeah, I'm stoked. My iBook is going to my partner on 'indefinite postponed payment' once I get my new one. He'll make the second person I've brought over into the Mac realm. And just about two years ago, I was bashing them myself.
OSX is just incredible. No two ways about it, it kicks ass. Closed source GUI? Sure. I can live with that. Secretive API's? I can live with that too. It just works.
And as soon as I get back from the Salem, NH Apple Store tonight, I'll be reading good ol' Slashdot from it. Happy as hell.
Microsoft OS'es are lousy, but the games are okay. At this rate though, I'll be shelving Windows in favor of a PS3 or whatever comes next, and a desktop Mac.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
My biggest bitch about Linux (which I use 90% of the time; I'm a developer and for that Linux is awesome, for the most part) is installation. I've been doing this (computer crap) for over 20 years and there are some apps I simply cannot get to run without crashing, and occasionally I can't even get them to compile due to library requirements, etc.
I simply don't have 8 hours to get an app running.
That assumes the app I "need" even exists on the Linux platform, and sometimes it really doesn't, or it takes hours to even get close to having it run, only to discover I have to back down a library revision or two. Not worth it.
I simply don't have 8 days to write each app I need.
I have all sorts of issues with video on Linux (right now playing an mpg crashes the machine, RH 7.3). I also do a fair amount of video editing, and Premiere runs. I haven't gotten anything else to work on my box as of yet.
Lastly, sometimes I need to talk to a human to resolve an issue rather than wading through 6 websites, 2 FAQs, 5 READMEs. I _do_ RTFM, and I'm really good at reading them, but sometimes it just doesn't help. Sometimes I need more support than I can _easily_ get for a Linux app.
All that said, I hope to be 100% linux (or I'll just give up and move to OSX) within a year or two, assuming I can get the apps I need. I'd hate to move to Macs, quite frankly, I don't like paying the hardware tax. Otherwise I'll just stay where I am now--doing video work on Windows, wishing I could get kguitar to compile (something with a Qt header file?), and complaining that I'm not even approaching having solfedge working.
Dave
I'm all for other OS's and I did support BeOS when it was available.. but.. Windows has such a wide platform of dev tools and directx, that programming something is just too easy. I can really make what I want VERY quickly with awesome results. The sheer amount of tools to help me with this is just incredible on Windows also.. there are virtually dozens of 3d modellers for windows that are free. it's crazy.
Games definately keeps me on Windows .. im a sucker for sweet GUi's too .. oh well .. time for that funny video song from PeeWee's Big Adventure .. don't you see no evil, don't you hear no evil, don't you yell, you're goina burn in hell :p
1) Games
2) Multi-track audio recording and sequencing software (right now Logic and Reason)
3) I'm developing some software destined for commercial sales and the target market is, as far as I can tell, 100% on Windows (with no hope of conversion).
Because after having tried Redhad 5.1/7, Mandrake 7 8, Suse, Slackware 8.1 during the past 4-5 years, i found out that if i want to use my accessories and hardware, i have to use 98SE.
Because when i wanted to play divx5 content (i could play divx4) i had to download not only the plugin for XINE but also the new XINE version, the new alsa version and the new kernel.
Because when i got slackware 8.1 , thinking i finaly found the best distro (friends told me "it's tight" and i like that), i ran gpm, it froze, i ran startx it froze,only thing that worked was modprobe sb. I am not going to start reading manpages if issuing a simple command freezes an entire system. What am i supposed to do? reboot after every failed attempt at configuring my hardware? Yeah, that happens under windows too.
windows 98se are going strong on this pc (433celeron, 128M, 20G, geforce2mx, sbawe64g) for lots of years.
sorry folks, but this is what happened to me. This is my story. If you have not these issues i explained, i envy you. Wish i managed too. I really do.
Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
Look I love FreeBSD, don't get me wrong. My server runs FreeBSD, my router box runs FreeBSD... but my desktop machine is running Windows 2000.
For me Windows 2000 is just like Linux, except it runs desktop apps which is a nice bonus for a desktop OS. It's not the interface, believe me (I refused to go to Windows 95 for the longest time because of my preference towards CLI). It's just the simple fact that there are so many more exciting apps for Windows.
Whenever there is a neat new technology out it always comes out for Windows first, then *nix, then Mac. (Recent Examples: P2P, PAR, Bottler, etc.) As a fan of technology I want to run the technology as soon as I can download it... not wait for a port! Sure there are ports for nearly every P2P protocol out for NIX, and there are PAR clients, and yes there's even Buttler... but these versions are always months behind in development compared to their Windows counterparts.
Going hand in hand with technology is, of course, games. One can only play so much Tux Racer before going back to Windows for Mafia or the latest Half-Life/Quake Mod.
I could see either place switching to linux if the emulation and office compatability were better, but there are hundreds of scientific apps, and about a dozen custom prioprietary databases that are windows/dos only.
If all the games that run under a windows environment could be run in a linux environment then there would be no reason not to run a free OS. And by all I mean all. Not some or a few but every single title released worked under both environments. Yes I know you could dual boot, or just play whatever is available currently, but that seems to me like the tail wagging the dog. If games can drive hardware purchases then they sure as hell can drive OS preferences also.
Sorry, but in general it is for me. Having to maintain and teach users stuff that is different from what they already use at home and other places is really a problem -- I know, as I've tried and failed miserably.
... can I be excused? My brain is full!
When I'm at home I use WinOS for games and simplicity -- it is entertainment and not work now. It is a cinch to maintain the home network and keep the Windows Wife happy (all she's ever known and is not really willing to know anything else) since it is the same as what I administer at work.
I'm a busy guy and while I find Slashdot incredibly useful, I just haven't had the time in my life to learn Linux deeply enough to administer it for all the people who rely on me for support. Basically I've gone with what I know best and it has made it easier to solve their problems and answer their questions. As one guy I keep several families (people's homes here) worth of machines running, as well as being MIS guy for a 25 machine office, all by myself (mostly). I would have to check out of a major portion of my life to fill my head with Linux that well. Since I use the Windows stuff, I know it intimately. If I had to know two entire OSes plus perform all my other duties
It's like the Dvorak vs Qwerty argument -- I'll get there when I have time because it makes sense, but right now I just don't have the time!
I'm thinking about it, therefore I might be.
Like many other Slashdotters, I'm chained to Microsoft because of games. I'm tried on several occassions to kick the habbit, but that usually lasts all of a week before an urge to play GTA3 or Neverwinter Nights has me looking for my copy of Windows XP. Also, now that I'm in college, several of my programming classes require Windows 2k or better. Of course, I did get a couple of smirks from the faculty when I pointed out that considered any version of Linux to fall in that category.... ;-)
And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
And I know that two of the three are available in Linux, but:
- my company supplies Outlook 2000 and are not willing to fork out $69 for an Evolution license.
- configuring PPTP in linux is a pain in the rocks.
- my wife couldn't use linux to save her life and the grief isnt worth it to me to spend hours explaining why GAIM looks so bad and what happened to her favourite stuff like Publisher 2000
At home:
1. PC Games.
2. My wife is Linux/Unix impared.
At work:
1. Have no choice (my boss won't let me).
Note: I run a Linux box to do some personal projects at home, and run Linux on VMware @ my main PC.
At home I have both a Mac and a PC. I'd switch over completly to the Mac, but game development, even amateur development, is so much easier on the PC. More and better tools, and more users who can buy your product.
(to me) one of the great strengths of *nix machines is you're able to remotely administrate them very nicely and easily. cli tools exist for everything, and that is their great strength.
Windows machines' great strength lies in having tons of apps that are interactive only (games, ie, office). Plus (in my case) it's alot easier (imo) to actually use and configure the windowing system on windows.
So I use a win2k machine, and have a few putty's open to my *nix machines...
Maybe one day I'll comprimise and get an OS X box, but currenty the two machines are still cheaper than one mac.
I'm switching over now. The reason I stuck so long was games.
puts ("Python r0cks\n");
Ease of use.
Lots of actively supported software.
Especially games.
Programs crash every so often, but not enough to be a major problem.
I've seen friends install linux, and dealing with the learning curve.
the hassle they had dealing with peripherals even with people who knew what they were doing helping them. (eg why doesn't my cdrom work? what's the command to eject it now? why do I have to keep remounting it?)
I know enough commands to get around a unix machine, but not enough that it wouldn't be a pain to reach a point where I can use it as my primary OS.
Running MacOS would require a new computer.
Inertia - even if the pros outweigh the cons, it's a hassle to reformat, reinstall, and then learn a new operating system.
*nix systems have a great degree of customability, but at the expense of automation and the "I don't have to worry about it" factor.
Games... obviously And i need to developer asp.net, easiest to do on windows, lets face facts.. asp.net blows the doors off anything linux has to offer. Other than those 2 things i only run linux. @ work i have to run windows since Linux has no acceptable replacment for Microsoft Access
Games on the PC are dominated by the Win32 platforms. If there's ever a point where games are released for *NIX at the same time as the Win32 version, I would switch. As long as my company maintains systems like Lotus Notes and a Visual Age repository, I'll be on Windows at home. :(
Ok, let's see. I'm no fan of MS but have been using every version of windows since 3.0, followed the NT path starting with 4.0, now using XP Pro.
I'm a developer, and run all the stuff I need to do my work: Perl, Apache, MySQL, Java, etc along with things like ssh, vnc, etc. Command line all the way. Phoenix for browser.
I also run RedHat in VMWare to simulate production environment for my app. I dont use it in gfx mode - just telnet to it from the windows side.
The only thing that would make me switch is if MS really decides to clamp down on the OS (ie, DRM, privacy issues like necessity to "call home" - i block it right now with ZoneAlarm).
I just can't get the useful help and cutsy animations from Linux. Clippy is my best friend. I love Clippy. If you used Clippy once, you'd grow to love him too. I can't live or breathe without Clippy...
"Joan of Arc, up top!" - Ghandi, Clone High
My fiancee wants to use it for Quicken, the kids for games. I want to use the games as well have having the option of working on documents from home. I am also, however, planning on getting the Amithlon as a secondary part of the system for my fun.
I have talked to friends about Linux and, quite frankly, I just don't have the computer knowledge base to try and use it as the primary OS. Hell I'm not even sure I can pull the Amithlon off ('tis been a long time since I played with my A1200). I have seen people with far more experience than myself struggle to get things to work with it. They are happy when they do, but I don't want to spend my weekends fighting with the confuser.
My $0.02.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
I use Windows at work because our accounting data is kept in Peachtree 2003 for Windows. WINE does not run any Peachtree past version 7 with much success.
I use GNU/Linux at home for games, website development, etc.
Mozilla is my browser of choice at work, while Konqueror is my favorite at home (though I have Mozilla installed on my workstations).
I'm an animator. I use Lightwave (PC or Mac, no Linux for at least a year or two), I use Photoshop, and I use After Effects. Right now, I'm stuck with Windows or even Mac.
Would I switch to Linux if magically everything worked? Not today. I recently tried Linux. My biggest complaint was that there was no way I could be productive on it without knowing some obscure command-line stuff. I had trouble getting the network going, I never got sound to work, and I found installing some (not all) software to be difficult. This was Redhat 7.2.
I enjoyed setting up a Redhat webserver. That went reasonably well, and it's behaving quite nicely. As a desktop machine, though, it was a horrible experience for me. I'm an artist. I'm right brained. I don't want to learn a bunch of commands when Windows' UI very elegantly manages the hardware. So yeah, I'm spoiled.
I plan on re-evaulating Linux in a year or so, but I think they need to evolve the UI more before they convert me. In the mean time, I am a satisfied Windows 2000 user. It's hard to switch when today I have working machines that don't give me problems. I've never lost an overnight or even an over-the-weekend render due to an instability in Windows or Lightwave.
I guess what I'm saying is: Not only does Linux need to be as good as Windows (particularly in the UI area...), it's also got to entice me some how. Film Gimp was a step in the right direction...
wine C:\\Program\ Files\\EA \Games\\ Medal\ of\ Honor \Allied \Assault \Spearhead \Demo\\moh_spearheaddemo.exe
I won't switch until linux can do all these jobs flawlessly:
1. Run the latest games
2. Capture/encode video into divx or mpeg2 streams using commercial quality programs such as Cinema Craft
3. Play the latest media format (Sorenson, Windows Media, Realplayer(gag)
4. Run about a million win32 programs dating from 1992-present
Heres a good example of where windows wins and linux loses. I wanted a program for grabbing audio from my sound card and encoding to mp3 in realtime for archiving radio shows. In linux I had to fight with lame, cron, and some sketchy recording programs which produced files that skipped. In windows I downloaded a program, set the timer and picked my bitrate and had it working in minutes.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
To be able to view and write to the widest possible number of formats, I have to run a Windows machine. This includes things like the Sorenson codec, etc. That, and, of course, games.
I use windows XP pro for many reaons A for some uncanny reaon i can get it running stable B everquest C i would dual boot but i never shut down so whats the point *shrugs* games and ease of use for me actully sure i could go to linux but why bother? when XP does everything i need it to? its not like i pay for Microsofts OS'es *wink*
I do law part time. All of the agreements I have to work on are in Word format, and I haven't (yet) had luck with any of the word processors that run on Linux. Some open some Word documents, but it's a hassle to reboot to Windows to open a document.
I also do programming part time. My current project is an intranet application to manage the review and redaction of electronic documents. The import utility has to run native Windows applications (like MS Office), but the server is on Linux. Even so, the application has to work well with Internet Explorer, so even when I'm working on the server, I've got to keep Windows up on my desktop system for testing.
Then, of course, there are the games. If Battlezone II and X-Wing Alliance were on Linux, I'd be in heaven.
-Steve
Democracy is a poor substitute for liberty.
The only thing at this point keeping me with a very very old copy of Windows 98 at home is the fact that the games are all there.
Unfortunately, this situation does not seem to be diminishing. What's worse, more games are coming out for XBox, and NOT on the PC platform, meaning to continue my lifestyle, I would need one of those... which is unthinkable to me.
I will completely abandon Windows when I have outgrown computer games. All my favorite development tools are on GNU/Linux or are cross platform. In fact, I even like Netbeans (free/open software) better than Borland JBuilder, which I happen to like a lot. For graphics, I like Gimp, although it takes getting used to. Mozilla has finally reached a critical point in development for me (and I want to develop for Mozilla as a platform). OpenOffice does more than I'll ever need, and doesn't even give me enough problems with Word documents anymore. The chat clients are better, text editing better, etc. Evolution is better than Outlook for me. I've had it with that other MS thing.
But the games...
I used to work at home, and when I did, I used GNU/Linux. Now I work in an office, and I still use GNU/Linux there. In fact, we are working very hard to ensure that all of our clients use GNU/Linux. There are two reasons. One, Free and Open software does not cost money, that's obvious. Our clients are poor NGO's, often working in even poorer countries. But there is another... with the continuing introduction of new technologies to track and control content, computers and their use, it is concievable that it will become more difficult for our clients to continue working with Windows in the areas where they are working. Often, they live in places with oppressive governments and need to maintain a certain degree of anonymity and we must be certain that there computer does not communicate what they do to a third party. Can't do it with closed source stuff, and more and more it's harder to do with Windows.
In short, our clients are only using microsoft for application compatibility, but that will change. In some instances, their lives may depend on it.
Games, mostly. Too bad that the current crop of games are never being ported over. Only a few companies actually try to translate (or adapt) them, but then they run into copyright, settings, backward engineering.. etc etc which mean that the game, once translated, is either old, or it's technology has already been bypassed.
Does not help either that The Linux crowd likes to get their program free (as in beer) so there is little incentive for game companies to even think of supporting the users.
Heck, even the ones that did try on the level folded (Loki) as people just did not want to buy the darn things.
Until I can go into a store (any), find the _current_ release, purchase it and easily install it then I just can't justify the effort to change.
"The avalanche has already started. It's too late for the pebbles to vote." - Kosh
The _only_ win apps I can't live without
Cut and paste doesn't work the same everywhere. I never want what's in my copy buffer to be overwritten because I've selected something. Somes apps overwrite it, others done. I've found out there's a standard for cut and paste in X windows, but each app has a different method.
Apps. I don't have Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, and After Effects for Linux, all apps I use from time to time to get my job done. GIMP sucks and there's a reason it's named GIMP. I don't like doing everything with the right mouse button. GIMP can't convert to CMYK if I have to send something to a printer.
I already use OpenOffice and Mozilla on my Windows machine and they are fantastic. I just use Linux for server tasks at this point. The GUI has a way to go before it reaches my confort zone. Your mileage may vary.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Once they've succeeded in giving people the choice between Linux or Windows with all other apps, hardware, etc being equal, then no one will be stuck using Windows to fit in.
-N
I've nothing to say here...
"2) if not, what's keeping you from 'putting your money where your mouth is' - why are you using Windows?" Who told you that using Windows and paying Bill was the same thing?
I haven't used Windows in over a year now. I'd rather work around interoperability issues (like converting Word docs to HTML with wvHTML) than use Windows. I should admit that I don't play games at all, though.
I have BellSouth FastAccess ADSL, and they only support Win and Mac. I'm too poor for mac (but I'm saving up for a TiBook) so I use a win2k box as my "router". All the other boxes I have are running Mandrake, and the family has learned to use them.
I use the windows router also to do my school work, because the IDE of choice for my Computer Science class is Visual C++.. and what a crappy IDE at that.
Because work uses Windows. I take work home. The application that I need most is not on anything but Windows. Simple as that.
The general public will switch to Open Source if or when the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. Right now, for most people, Linux doesn't fit the bill. And, contrary to what people think, the problem isn't in marketing (or advocacy), the problems are technical. What advantages does Linux have for Grandma that offsets the disadvantage of having to learn a new OS?
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Obviously, games and my day job also keep me on Windows, but so do my freelance customers- when you show them the design work you're doing and they see that your computer looks different from theirs, they ask if it's a Mac. If you say No, they get all confused. Are they 'Lusers'? Yep. Does their money spend just like everyone elses? Yep. So I'm on Windows, until the Mom-and-Pop shops I work for get savvy enough to understand there are more than 2 OS choices (Mac or Windows), or I get rich enough to buy more than one or two machines. Perception is everything.
Too bad.
Eagles may fly, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
I've effectively switched all of my windows tools to tools that are available on Linux, most of which are open source and free (as far as I'm aware).
There is however no sufficient option for music recording software. I've looked into programs like Jazz, and then I ended up learning about ALSA to see if I could program what was missing. It looks like it is okay if you want only to do Audio or MIDI, but I could not find a good solution for them combined (with all the required effects and piano roll midi scoring).
However, the major software for recording is available for Mac, and that will be upgrading to OS X, which puts all of it a little closer to working under Linux. This won't be an open/free solution, but at least it would give us the opportunity to finally drop windows.
The last windows I purchased is Win98, and I'm still using it now. It crashing, or interrupting the audio devices, is the single biggest loss of time we have while recording.
But that's it, the recording software. Everything else, from maintaining the website, to writing the contracts, to distributing items, to doing graphics, to email, to whatever can be done in Linux, witout major complaints.
I used to play PC games that required windoze. But, I decided that Linux and a PS2 were more than enough. (I can even run Linux on my PS2.) Most of the great games get ported. And, some of the best PS2 will never be on the PC.
- I am used to Windows. I started with windows around 10 years ago, I didn't really know anything else for around 6 to 7 years. If you're working with an operating system for many years you get to know it, you get used to it, you learn about its kinks and itches. This increases your effectiveness in working with the OS
- I am used to the program I found for Windows. It takes much time to find an email client you like, find a newsreader you like, find a web browser you like. Once you found it you get used to it - just as you got used to the operating system itself. It took much time, it paid off - you can use it really well, you're "a good team with your programs".
- Windows 2000 is not that unstable. While not really having much experience with Linux on the desktop the first tries where disappointing. SuSE 6.0 (2 or three years ago, I think) regularly freezed under KDE. It just wasn't fun trying to get used to an operating system which crashes more often than even Windows 95.
The long and the short of it: I do not see enough advantages on changing to Linux. Costs isn't an argument for me - we have quite cheap campus licences at university. I can only think about two things:While it might be unfair to compare the current situation with the situation two or three years ago, also the Windows stability has advanced - at least for me, since I changed from 9x to 2000. It really satisfies my.
That's it, I hoped you can gain some insight into a typical Windows User's Brain now
A few months ago I went completely over to Red Hat, pretty much right after the release of RH 8.0 I went fully over. I still have a windows box because this one specific poker client I use and really like doesn't run under Wine (it was made really crappy) and since I have the box there I also use it to play streaming mp3s so I don't have to tie my main boxes sound card up on that. I'll also occasionally fire up Kazaa on that machine to download something. But I do all of thse through VNC since the windows box is sitting headless and half naked behind my desk. All of my day to day gaming, web browisng, e-mail, etc... etc.. is done on Linux both at home and at work.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Not to mention that disease that I have: laziness.
Actual server log data shows that 61% of Slashdot readers use Windows (among those who visited this Ask Slashdot link). .
22% of Slashdotters use *nix (90% of them Linux) and 6% Macintosh.
Anh Zone
Patriotism is the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born there. (GBS)
Patriotism is the conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born there. (GBS)
I've got a bad ISO of CRUX, and after wiping Debian, I don't feel like installing it again, only to delete it to install CRUX.
Slashdot is a waste of time. I enjoy wasting time.
Where's LinDVD, dammit.
My primary job is developing windows software so I couldn't very well give it up completely. I kept a dual-boot partition for *years* but since most of my development stuff was on windows, my "home" environment was windows. Booting to Linux was like visiting to a foreign country. It's fun, but you know you really don't belong there and you miss things in Windows. Because of that, I rarely dual booted;-(
About a year ago, when I upgraded my computer, I made the decision to make Linux my primary OS. In order to do my Windows work, I installed VMWare. I was amazed at the results.
As a windows developer, it's made me more productive. I can sandbox horribly invasive tools like Visual Studio.NET (which requires 7 reboots to install!) in one VM and have other VMs for different Windows (and Linux) environments. I can also network between different VMs (no more messing with cables or spare computers -- I finally have free space!). Backing up VMs is a piece of cake and sharing files between VMs and my primary OS is easy through Samba or NFS.
Because VMWare runs better on Linux than Windows, VMWare can be the killer application for Linux.
Because Linux was that hosting environment, I was forced (out of convenience) to find replacements for most of the tools that I used to depend on. Some are better, some are worse, but overall, I feel more comfortable in Linux (and GARNOME GNOME2) than Windows.
CPU's are fast enough and the JDK is good enough. If games were written in Java we wouldn't need windows. WE NEED JAVA GAMES!!!!! And quicken too...
Why shouldn't I use Windows? I get Windows XP from my university for 6, and Office XP for 8.
...)
Downloading any Linux distribution is more expensive.
So, while I fully agree that Linux is by now a good replacement, why should I be using it?
Security is not really that much better (and even worse, if you're not a Linux guru and have lots of open services running).
The applications are in general lacking (Photoshop vs Gimp, MS Office vs OpenOffice,
Why should I opt not to use Windows if cost is not an issue?
These days, I still have it for strangely similar reasons. I wouldn't say it's my main OS, as I have it solely to run games without a linux version (yet -- nwn should have a linux client any time now). But since I mainly use my home computer for games, well...
Oh, and I also have an X-Box, which, in a certain way, Microsft pays me to use. I'm okay with that.
If I add up my computer time, then I spend most of it on this guy.
Just (hours ago) switched to windows (and DirectDraw) after having realized that you can't directly access video memory in linux without being root. X11/XV & co just suck if you want to do honest 2d graphics. This is pathetic.
I don't work in IT, so for me Windows is the easiest to get up and running to do real (for me) work (web access, word processing, some graphics). I'd use a mac but I can't afford one :P it also helps that my institution has a site license for win2k and office. there is too much fiddling to do to get linux to work as a desktop OS. our lab uses linux for a fileserver though.
NO CARRIER
At work I have a dual boot machine with Windows2000 and Linux (SW 7.1). Although I have OpenOffice installed, this is for many documents still not good enough - formulas and pictures are handled differently from formulas and pictures in Word. The problem is that in many cases OpenOffice treats formulas and pictures 'better' than Word (it does what is expected of it, and handles captions a lot better than Word (which doesn't handle those at all actually)), but because everyone uses Word these days a document made in OpenOffice should look the same in Word as I made it in OpenOffice. Therefore at work I have to use Windows. At home it's mainly the games that keep me booting Windows now and then. For some websites I also have to use IE, unfortunately.
-- Cheers!
Well, there's not only unsupported hardware, there are also applications that only work under Windows. I'm working with Rational XDE, which is quite impressive in several areas (UML, customer support, price, memory consumption, among others), but only works under Windows.
Oh, and I just forgot to mention Microsoft Office, which is required where I work. Yes, it exists for the Mac, too, but I don't have a Mac.
As icing on the cake, I will add some of my digital camera's utilities, especially the photo stitcher and the remote camera capture tool.
Besides, working in Windows is not that bad once you've installed your usual survival kit: Vim, Unix Utilities, TortoiseCVS (check that one!), PuTTY, multiple desktops, etc.
That's all...computer games (a full 50% of my harddrive is just games in my windows partition).
And printing cuz I have a non linux compatiable printer.
Everything else: web browsing, music, burning, text editing, programming, video watching...can be done in Linux.
The main reason I'm running Windows is because it is currently I.T. department policy to do so. I personally am running a Mandrake Linux 8.2 system at home with OpenOffice for office suite, Opera for a web browser, and Evolution for e-mail/PIM.
The biggest reason I stick with Windows is the sizeable investment I've made over the years in purchasing and learning Windows software. For example, I own most of the Adobe product line. I don't know that I'd switch to Linux, but I'd switch to OS X in a heartbeat if I could get my Adobe licenses converted. Adobe used to let you do that for the price of an upgrade (still too expensive), but I don't think they let you do that anymore. That's the biggest problem I have with Apple's 'Switch' campaign. Switching isn't attractive when the switch would cost way more than just the price of a new computer and OS.
I am not anti-windows or Microsoft...so I am sure that is going to skew my view away from most of the Slashdot posts...I'm not trying to hide that...just figure it will skew my reasons somewhat just like it would anti-microsoft people's opinions would be skewed the opposite way.
I am used to using Windows and its shortcuts, and mechanisms for doing my tasks. I have recently been using a Max OS X machine at work to test out browser compatibilites and have had a lot of trouble trying to do things that are just a bit out of the ordinary...such as creating html files from textedit (had trouble because it was saving in rich text I finally figured out) or creating new files and such. I am sure there are very very very easy ways to do this...but I am used to Windows and haven't had any complaints about it being tough or time consuming so I haven't found reason to change here.
Another major reason is compatibility with a wide range of software. Most (commercial) software is still written with Windows in mind and I find it very easy to find software for whatever purpose...games, business, personal finances...etc.
Although this is not the normal perception, I have not had trouble with Windows crashing on me anymore. Win 9x kernels were pretty bad...but I have not been able to crash Windows XP when using it at home...
Overall, I am more than pleased with Windows and for me, it is not worth switching to a new operating system. Just my personal experience and opinion...
Games, mostly (battlefield 1942, w00t!) but also driver availability for gizmos like my Creative digital VCR, firewire/DV cam interface, etc. I kinda like XP, actually. And it's a lot easier for my wife to use and understand than *NIX. FWIW, I do have a Linux machine as a file server, and a Solaris box for work-work.
everything in moderation
I have used Linux since kernel .99 and Windows since v2.x, I have also used OS X, OS/2, BeOS, and FreeBSD. I had a period in my life where I loved to multiboot every possible OS. But then I realized that multibooting was a hassle. Then I realized that I had to pick. And I picked Windows. Why? Still - after all the advances in Linux drivers, I found that hardware was my biggest problem. I have had so many different combinations of hardware that haven't worked - The MS Phone (not a surprise), the CyberGenie, the old STB TV Tuner, old webcams, scanners, modems, ethernet cards, TV out on my matrox, etc. Games were never a priority, but all my hardware working correctly was. And WITHOUT all the hacking. Other reasons: I like the XP interface. I like it BETTER than KDE, Gnome, and OS X. This is an unbiased preference. The look and feel to me works the way I want it to. I don't like virtual windows. I don't like windows being automatically focused on. I also believe that Windows gets easier to use with each release. This makes things easier for both the user and the person that has to administer the users. It is a lot easier for me to explain how to copy a file from one person's user folder to another on a windows machine using fruity, yet helpful terms like "Network Neighborhood." Network configuration is simple. Hardware installation is simple. Server configuration is simple. I also don't mind Office. I don't mind having my letters capitalized for me sometimes. I don't mind having a word like 'teh' automatically turned into 'the' - I even don't mind IE. I don't like tabbed-browsing. I don't like the ads in Opera. I even don't mind Outlook. I like being reminded that I have to turn in my timesheet. I like that it synchornizes with my cell phone and reminds me to attend meetings. So there are a few reasons for me. Every few months I download another distribution and put it on my second computer at home (2 comparably powerful PC's). Then I try to do the things I commonly do (which are different at home than at work, but not really). For some reason, I keep ignoring the Linux machine. CD Burning is better in Windows - I have a lot more options with CloneCD, CDRWIN, Easy CD, Nero, Fireburner, etc. I even like the effects in XP - I like the fading menus in Win2K. Sure, I can save on system resources by turning them off, but I think it makes my computer seem more pleasing to the eye.
So sorry if that was a huge rambling, but I was thinking out loud as to why I do like Windows.
And just to give you some background, I am a sys/network admin who administers both Unix and Windows machines for a group of developers and sales staff. I am not against Unix, it's just not what I want running on my everyday machine. Because it has features I don't need everyday. Network security? Unix. Internet services? Unix. Looking at pr0n? WINDOWS!
For the last X years, hundreds, maybe thousands of 3rd-party software vendors have been making all their stuff for Windows. As such, we utilize these Windows apps for which there are no alternative in the Free world.
I still use Windows at home most of the time because it's easy for the wife to use, and easy to install and use various apps and hardware. I can, but choose not to, blow hours reading config files and man pages to get something running that would take maybe 5 minutes to set up in Windows. And no, it never crashes, because I only install software I want, and allow very, very few TSR's and unnecessary services to run in the background. Basically, it works.
Yes, I know I CAN do all this in Linux, but I don't have as much free time as some people. It's still very far away from being user-friendly enough for anyone to actually use as an all-purpose OS.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
I've been Mac oriented since 1985. One of the things said by the more clueless in those days was that the Mac was a cute toy to play games on, but you couldn't do real work on it (i.e., run Lotus). I guess they were thinking about the games available for the Apple II series, because comparatively there never were many games for the Mac. As more and more good games came out for the PC, I bought a Gateway around 1993, but only to play games on. Those were the days! Darklands, Master of Orion, Masters of Magic, really great games. I still do all my work on my Macs, but I have a Wintel machine at home to play games on, and I have a Wintel machine in the office to get email (stupid exchange system) and to do some web browsing.
I bought the boxed, retail version of Warcraft III. It included a Mac version which runs great on my iBook.
For me it's mainly inertia. Also the fact that I windows for $5 (college rates), and the few lingering programs that I can't run in linux yet without hassle - though arguably that's gotten a lot better. But still, it's mostly inertia. I play around with linux on server stuff, but I haven't switched to it full time on my main everyday slashdot-reading game-playing anime-watching cd-burning box. I take it as absolute truth that I'll eventually be 100% linux, I just haven't done it yet..
I switched over recently. At least I switched my servers at work. (Can't really switch at home the gf would beat me with a stick!) It wasn't an easy task. Before now I had only haphazardly used Linux here and there and knew enough of the commands to get by. It's hard to learn new things especially new OS's getting my samba working and getting IP Tables to act the way I want was a hell of alot harder than simply turning on file sharing and installing some firewall software.
I think for the majority of the users it's a case of the roadblock of pride. It's easier to use what you are used to then it is to ask for help all the time.
Most of us are tech savvy enough to not ask for help with our computers at all. In fact for the most part we hate people asking us for help. I mean, how many users have you wanted to slap? It's hard to take that large step backward and put yourself into a situation where you know very little and in many cases have to ask for help.
I've quickly picked up the linux stuff now and feel I am competent with it. It's a good solid OS and it doesn't die like my NT box did..
It's not that I didn't want to switch it's that I didn't want to be a n00b!
The Only Person Willing to be Me is ME!
The main reasons I've stuck with Windows (currently running XP Pro at home and in the office) is because of the games. While I'm at work, all of the programs that I do support for are windows-based, so it's a forced thing here in the office. I do have an old box that I run linux on that I use as my router/firewall at home. I think that my wife would probably get lost trying to use Linux, and that wouldn't be a good thing for me ;P
To be honest, I hate all OSes. I can use any of the big ones (windows, mac 9, X, linux, BSD) with equal ease, but they all have crippling shortcomings that annoy the hell out of me. I think a lot of people are like me- they don't want to waste time being the monkey that keeps a machine running, they want to use the machine to get the work done. The OS should just be transparent.
I'm using windows because I'm lazy and I have money (read: American).
I turn the computer on, it works. I can watch videos in any format I wish, MSNBC is practically the only place that does free news that I've found.
I know you can get X-pluging with Y-player for linux, but this works easily and NOW.
Also, contrary to popular belief, windowsXP is stable as hell. More stable than any linux box i've owned. I help run an IT dept. here with about 40+ win2k and XP boxes and NEVER seen the OS crash. I've seen netscape crash plenty of times.
I'm the reason i'm not switching back to linux.
Y'know, I've heard rumors of this other platform which will run Photoshop...
Only Visio -- got an alternative (besides dia)?
At home... its a no brainer, I'm always on Linux.
At work, though (I technically spend more hours on my office computer), its all those software tools that my company uses.
Although there are some *potential* replacement tools like open office and the new connectors to interoperate with MS exchange, all the infrastructure is still built on the monopoly platform. We use a lot of custom software that has been built to work on MS servers and clients. But more importantly, all of our main productivity software (like CAD programs, design programs, you name it) is supposed to interoperate with co-workers with file formats, etc.
To change my own system, I would have to operate as some kind of satellite employee. But since I don't, and my groups are so far away from migrating to linux tools (even where its truely feasible, which is rare) most of my co-workers still don't know much about linux, and don't want to spend much energy giving it a chance.
Nada! As soon as my new parts arrive (I'm waiting for after the holiday season), I'm building a straight RH 7.3 (skip 8.0) or Mandrake based system, with a subscription to Transgaming's software, OpenOffice and KDE 3.1. Windows, my wife can keep that box!
P.S. As for the reason this message is posted from Windows, I'm at work..as with most Slashdotters I'm sure have workplaces that still use Windows.
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
Unfortunately, my Parallel Port AcerScan 620P doesn't work on SANE. So I have to keep a Windoze partition incase I need to scan some documents. Also, my Physics and Diff. Eq. classes require use of Excel and MathCad. OpenOffice is fine for word documents, but I have YET to find an alternative (open or propreitary) spreadsheet that has all the data analysis features that Excel has. MathCad 7 works under WINE, but the files i have to open are Mathcad2000, which wont' install on WINE.
..Anyone want to offer suggestions in these respects? Oh yea, the AcerScan is a nice scanner, so I'm not giving that up.
$cat
i run win95 on a 486 laptop with very limited RAM. all my peripherals Just Work, and i didn't have to spend a week trimming the OS to fit. i felt a little bad trashing the ultra-customized slackware linux i had on it before, but it's useful now, and it wasn't before. furthermore, the palm desktop and the sprint wireless connection software also Just Work.
At work in the Office areas, its all Windows (per corporate mandate).
:-(
On the shop floor, its X-terminals running both HP-UX and Linux apps (per stable apps developed and refined over the past 8 years). Tight integration, works like a charm and solid. The search for new process control software tools is comming up with very little outside of windows stuff, but Unix/Linux compatibility is a big requirement for us. We're not going down the path to support nightmares for PC's on the shop floor like in other locations.
At home, Linux, except for games that aren't Tuxracer and GLTron, then I'm forced to run Win98
I would be using Linux for most of my activities, including gaming, if it were not for the fact that I run Protools for recording all of my music, and that my soundcard (Digi001) is only supported under Mac OS 9.2 and Windows XP at the moment.
Support for OS X (10.2) will be out in December, but there's no linux support in site, and we don't even think that the developers know what linux is. Perhaps some smart chaps will figure out how to take the 10.2 version to Linux, but until then...
So why don't I have a mac? For the most part I don't like OS 9.2. It's about as far from Linux to me as you can get. Windows is much more down and dirty as you would say, than Mac OS 9.2. Well, that's my opinion. I always had a PC (x86 processor) but now I want a mac, but with school costs and everything, I must sell my HP laptop to buy it, and even then I am still down on the cash....
Anyone want a PIII/850 laptop, it runs linux well...?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
I don't use Windows! :)
I love macs, I used to have one, but it drove me completely insane. Everything either doesn't work, or is a little bit harder, or is a little bit slower. The continued promises about how everything will be fixed in the next version of the operating system just add insult to injury. Mac people can give hundreds of arguments about why this isn't the case. I know, I used to be one.
My Top 10 list for why windows is my desktop os.
1. Games my PC is my entertainment centre
2. Hardware everything from USB scanners to VIVO video cards are easyer to get support and drivers for.
3. Office compatibitly.. I am currently running OpenOffice along side office 2000. Recently I noticed a HUGE formatting error in a VERY importan doc I had exported from OpenOffice to doc format.. I had to open MS Office 200o to correct the formating before sending it.
4.GUI, everything in windows can be easily found and configured from the GUI. Even the best distros have not reached the point of avoiding droping to the console completely.
5.GUI consistancy.. With apps being developed for Gnome, KDE, ect. Often apps lack the same look and feel and ofen compatibly for simple tasks such as copy and paste.
6.Installing apps in windows is just easier. Apt Get and RPMs help but are no where near as easy as windows apps with a simple installer.
7. Apps. The apps I want and use are windows only. 8. Fonts, when are the distros going to start including readable fonts.
9. Gaim is no match for Trillian
10. Better web brouwsing.. Yes the new Mozilla is very nice.. but when it comes to viewing sites with flash, quicktime or other common plugins support seems to be shaky.
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
An interesting example that is related to this is a talk that one of my professors gave at the Instructional Technology Fair yesterday at my college. The title of his talk was "Is Microsoft Word Inherently Evil?" and he addressed some serious questions about the power that one's use of Word gives to MS over how we communicate. One of the biggest points he made was that MS Word (unlike HTML) is neither a standard nor open, as MS can change the Word file formats whenever it wants, thereby causing older versions of Word to not be able to read documents created in newer versions. The outline for his talk is here.
Games.
Ease of networking for work and home purposes.
The fact that I don't want to waste hours and hours on stupid shit like Samba when I can have it running in Windows within five minutes.
I personally don't use Windows, neither at work or at home, though obviously i don't play games a lot (besides an occasional Quake III on Linux). There's only ONE Windows application that I use frequently, and that's KaZaA. So i have a VMWare virtual machine that i use just for this, with the KaZaA download directory being a Samba directory on the Linux host.
DZM
I have no Linux experience... I'm trying to get it onto my laptop in hopes of learning how to use it. That and compadibility, at least for now.
What keeps me on windows is 1) Hardware that is not supported by linux. 2) Games, 3) MSOffice 4) Commercial 3D Graphics programs that don't run on Linux.
What keeps me on Linux: KDE Programming, Email, Web development, bzflag, some Loki games, work.
I've use Linux @ home since early '97, but when I visit slahdot @ work I'm stuck using NT.
Someday I'll get them to try something Open Source!
I have a recording studio and a big investment in Windows audio hardware/software, and could not afford to replace it all with Mac stuff. Decent audio software simply doesn't exist on Linux.
And I save my company about $800 per year in software costs.
I'd dump win2k in a heartbeat if drivers were available for many of the peripherals that I need to use. My usb scanner, for example, is not supported by SANE.
The whole length and breadth of peripherals out there will (95% percent of the time) work with windows.
So, I'm forced to scan in Win2k, save the file to my old cobalt cube 2(I friggin' love those things), and then reboot into linux to edit the file in the Gimp. (which doesn't help me out doing color seps or any pre-press work like Photoshop does, but that's an entirely different thread altogether)
Now home is a different story. The primary machine runs Win2K Pro, for games, but more importantly to serve as a buffer from my wife's wrath. You see, I loaded Gentoo on it once after a drive crashed. My wife came home, saw KDE, and my consoles piled up on it, and blew her top. I cherished the sexual side of our marraige enough to put Windows back on it, and relegated my Gentoo install back to the crufty machine. I may be a geek-at-heart, and I love linux as much as the next guy, but uptime/tweakability/power/toolset/zealotness is just no substitute for sex.
So.. in short, the reason I have windows on two out of four machines I use daily:
Work - Corporate Standard + PHB
Home - Sex
I use RH 7.3 for most everything. But there is NOTHING in Linux to displace Quicken! I must retain compatibility with my wife, who won't use Linux. Gnucash doesn't export to quicken, and Kapitol is a joke, so I have a Windows partition that hardly get used, for Quicken and Wave Repair.
Windows does a good job of catering to me as a user; I don't want to have to futz with ten buried configuration files to get things done. It's easy; and Win 2000 is actually very stable.
I work with about 15 developers plus miscellaneous (sp?) tech writers, dba's, pm's, etc etc. There are probably 20 gov't employees I deal with on a regular basis outside this group. About 2 of them care what OS they use. They all use Windows (NT) because that is what is mandated by the LAN Support Group (A contract company, not government employees). I chose to install Linux on my workstation and no one seems to care. Of the other two who actually care what OS they're on, one is installing Linux on Monday, the other is already running Win XP.
I would argue that company policy is what keep a lot of people on Windows, and convenience (it's already there, it doesn't involve having to actually do anything) keep everyone else there. At least in the US, we are constantly pounded in the head with advertising encouraging us to be as passive as possible, so people always take the path that involves the least immediate effort on their part.
Give me convenience or give me death.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
The reason people use Windows is simple.
That's what the vast majority of software is made for.
Gaming is a textbook example. Macs are limited to pretty much ID games, Blizzard games, and a sparce few others, and those few others typically come out MONTHS after their PC counterparts. So if you want to play any good and/or recent games, you have to stick with Windows.
as a developer, you simply make more money developing for windows. if I could sell software to linux users and make money of it, it would be byebye windows.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
Uses windows, think windows is good enough,
likes XP, Office XP, the games, and the
compatibility.
An fanatic screaming minority, for which
Slashdot is a voice for, uses other minor
os's like Linux, on their desktops.
Do people like using Windows? -- nope
Are games the driving factor? -- you bet...
Or is it just 'the right tool for the job? -- no way!
hcat
I use several applications at home as well as work that run on Win32 exclusively. Our hospital email and messaging system is all Microsoft and I don't see this changing anytime soon.
Also, Half-Life isn't on Linux (yeah, I know you can use Wine, but it's a no-brainer to play it in Windoze.)
On the upside, I do run a game server from time to time and it's always Linux (usually Red Hat or Mandrake).
I've always loved Linux, ever since I was introduced to it during a summer internship. I do, however, use Windows 2000 for just about everything on my home machine. Why? Here's a short list:
PS: When I started writing this, there were 7 comments. Now there are 260... Linux zealots, please don't flame me! :)
I wanted to switch. I tried. I read books, I installed, I participated on linux newsgroups, I tweaked, updated, etc, etc and I kept having to do it. The most frustrating part of using Linux is that you have to learn from geeks and geeks suck at teaching. It's like trying to learn guitar from a self taught musician. They can't teach what they know by instinct. My computer became about putzing with Linux instead of doing anything fun, so I gave up and installed XP. Now I can play games, all of my hardware works and I don't have an operating system for a hobby. Linux is for geeks and should stay for geeks.
Works great on my iBook. It's overpriced, but it works better for me than Gimp or Corel PhotoPaint 10.
As a custom application developer, the main thing keeping me tied to windows is my customers. When you design software to work on the only computer in a storefront, you often don't have any option but to co-exist with the software that is already in use at that location. Unfortunately, this means windows approx. 100% of the time. Even when alternatives exist on other platforms, we don't have to time or clout ness. to migrate them over. We would be soundly trounced by competitors who support windows. I personally hate having to keep so many copies of different versions of windows around to fix version-specific bugs, but it seems that it simply comes with the territory. Anyone out there succeed in making inroads in such an environment? There are a million benefits to getting the client to switch, but we've met with nothing but resistance or indifference.
I am too lazy to open lilo.conf and change default=Windows my current computer came with ME, but the next one would have XP, whose EULA I don't agree to. So I guess when my H/w becomes too obsolete and WinME is no longer available i will switch. Also i haven't found one good video conf. s/w in linux. gnomemeeting is not there yet.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
The company I work for has rolled out Windows 2K on all of their machines as a standard. This works for a number of reasons.
1. The ability to have a ghostable image available to push on to the machines as people move desks or revolve to other jobs.
2. Ability of administation to lock down the machines so the wannabe k1dd1ez cannot destroy the OS
3. Ability of support drones to have a single knowledgebase with which to "support" our problems.
There is something to be said for standardization of software across a call center's floor. All of our applications are either in-house, written for Win32, or browser based. As luck would have it I can do 99% of my job using Phoenix instead of IE, however there are a few apps that only work in IE.
At home I use both Win2K and Linux. The Win2K box gets most of my time as it is my game box in addition to having the best kit installed in it. The Linux box acts as router and firewall and crunches Seti@home units. I play with it to try to learn Linux, but all day long I am on Win32. Given a few months of constant use I am sure that I would switch over to Open Source, as has happened with my browsing, but for now I will stick with Win32. Also I like to play Blizzard games, which I have heard do not work well with WINE etc.
it is better to light a flame thrower than curse the darkness. -Terry Pratchett Men at Arms
windows has a better desktop experience...most of the time at home I just set up a linux box and keep putty logged in via ssh...nothing is more frustrating than having lots of high end multimedia stuff and not being able to use it until you have debug a f'n driver....that said i mainly use my windows box for browsing the web (plugin support) multimedia (wm8&9, real, qt, divx) and now for programming in c# between MS tools and mono because it's better. it really is. sorry you don't think so. my .02
The Basic Stamp editor runs only under windows.
IAR systems C-spy debugger runs under windows.
There are probably a couple of other things I use that only run under windows that don't have an as good or better replacement yet in any other OS.
I think Linux is wonderful, It's a great OS. But... while there are tons of great applications on Linux, the applications I need ( or rather, the applications my clients expect me to have) are nowhere to be seen.
:
If a client drops a Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, Indesign or publisher(urg) file lands in my mailbox I need to be able to
a) Open the file
and
b) know that what I am seeing is what my client also sees.
I think Linux is perfect for an average user who just wants to surf the net and check their email, do a bit of word processing etc ( It's the OS I would recommend to my mom ). But in a design environment where the applications are pretty standardized it just isn't ready for primetime yet.
Get some of the big players on board (Adobe, Macromedia etc) and Switching would be incredibly easy for me to do.
I'm too lazy to cahnge.
I run Debian on all my servers, but honestly, I have enough to do in my life without learning the ins and outs of KDE(or Gnome or whichever you use).
My Win98 desktop runs the way I like it. The buttons conform to my habits, and everything works the way I expect it to.
Which is not to say that your window manager of choice couldn't do the exact same thing, but I'm not motivated to switch.
-ajb
My banks crappy code on their servers, and updating my router and bios etc. Manfacturers assume we live in a dos/windows world if we run ix86 boxes.
I found that article informative. You don't have to be 1337 haxx0rz just to tell people whad kind of operating system you run.
In fact, just to piss you off furthermore, here's my stats:
3 workstations/servers at home running OpenBSD and FreeBSD.
2 workstations at work running RedHat Linux.
...and Some Multimedia Stuff.
------- "A Communist is just a Socialist with a gun in a hurry" - unknown
Because it's the standard. Not necessarily better, but what is the most widely used. Besides, getting one OS to do all I want is challenge enough. Why complicate it by switching to an OS that you KNOW is going to be more of a challenge to get up and running?
Nobody will see this cuz of my low karma, but the only reason I haven't deleted XP from my dual-boot SuSE8.0/XP box is because I do not have the TIME to cement the knowledge involved in Linux to update/install/compile/verify packages and installations. I LOVE the premise of Linux, I ENJOY the functionality and versatility, and I LIKE the idea of customizing and tweaking my machine/kernel to have what I want. But I have an iPod, and in order to utilize the IEEE 1392 card, I have to do some kernel hacking, rpm install, dependency checks, and sacrifice to teh gods of one and zero just to HOPEFULLY be able to install a package that might work. I understand that Linux is still in the early phases of development, and is a powerful tool for computing freedom for many, but when the installation of packages and updates REQUIRES more computing expertise than I have time to develop, then I have to have Windows so I can USE my computer instead of PROGRAM my computer. Maybe I'm lazy. All I want is a TOOL, not a project. Yes, I do support Linux by purchasing a few software titles (StarOffice 6.0, SuSE 8.0, RTCW Linux), so don't get the impression that I want something for nothing. I just want to be able to have a OS that I can install for my mom on her laptop, show her that it needs no arcane commands, and let her bne on her merry little way. Then, and only then will I make the FULL conversion to Linux. Thanks for listening/reading.
is it that bad seein a hot chick again? if i see a hot chick walkin down the hall i dont say "repost"
Contrary to the common claims, linux for me has been just as unstable as Windows.
I have a computer at my parents' house - my dad now uses it which runs Redhat 7.2 just perfect.
But, I've been trying to get Mandrake 9.0 or Redhat 7.3 to work on my laptop - and they do. But, the ACPI is not implemented so my laptop eventually overheats and shuts off. The newest ACPI patches do not seem to work for me either. (If anyone has experience with ACPI on a Toshiba 3000-S304, send me an email or something if you'd like to help)
Also, linux has no general GUI. Yea, you staunch linux supporters will say the common lingo such as:
"Never trust a GUI."
"GUI's are for those that don't know computers."
"GUI's are whatever you want them to be."
But, that defeats the purpose. The nice thing about Windows is that (once I get it running stable) I can use any program - no matter how complicated - since it uses a standard GUI. I opened up Photoshop for the first time years ago and figured out how to edit a picture in about 15 minutes. Every new program I open in Windows... click, click, click and I know it generally.
In linux, you have to learn every little command. It is just plain not intuitive. Like, who would guess netconf or urpmi or chmod or any of the other random linux commands?
Also, linux NEVER seems to work right 'out of the box'. It took me forever to get Ogle working - seems I had to rename a few devices.
Also, my Mandrake installation somehow corrupted itself on my laptop. I made absolutely no changes other than using Kate for java programming and now it won't complete the boot process.
Yea, I have had terrible times with windows also - but at least windows is intuitive. The linux programmers need to get off their damn high horses and realize that an intuitive GUI is how you get real people to adopt it.
Another problem is the years of experience people have with Windows. No matter how much faster linux is, people generally know how to do things faster on Windows. All I can say is linux needs to be easier to use. Screw security when I can't figure out how to get a battery icon on my taskbar. (One that actually communicates with my laptop.)
Until linux works EASIER, it will be on my secondary computer as a secondary boot option. Right now, pirated XP is the most convenient option for me. (I own two licenses - but the pirated version allows me not to have to call the Fuxors at Microsoft.)
Yea, if you think I'm pissed at linux, I am. Every time I go for help on it, I get the typical "RTFM, man {command}, or run {insert random combination of characters}" like I shoul've known it automatically.
Linux people - make a damn common interface. Why the hell does every program have to look completely different?
--- We need more Ron Paul!
At Home: Games, games, games. With all due respect to the Linux game coders out there, my favorite games are all PC based. I have yet to find one MMORPG with a Linux client available. There are a limited selection of games available for Linux, and since I don't play Warcraft or most of the other games with Linux clients available, I use Windows to get to games.
At Work: Company policy. Our corporate IT group is very anal about what is and isn't allowed. According to policy, I can't even hook my personally owned PDA to a corporate PC. I do have a laptop running Linux at my side, though.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
I cannot do without Windows because all of my clients work with AutoCAD & MapInfo data/files. These programs are Windows only and I have no choice but to run Windows to earn a living. If I was a software or web developer, then my choices could include a *nix flavor, but if you use CAD, you prety well have to stick to a Microsoft platform.
Like a lot of people here, I run two boxes, one Win2k, one Linux. You gotta play to their strengths.
;)
Windows is great for:
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Warcraft III
A UI that, sadly, is more mature than KDE|Gnome
Inertia (My windows box is still using the 2.5GB hard drive I bought in '96, and I don't really feel up to porting all the cruft that has accumulated on it to Linux.)
But on the other hand, I would never consider using my windows box to run:
MySQL daemon
File Serving
Remote interactive prompt (Have you *seen* windows terminal server???)
Web Serving
Or anything else that requires the least modicum of stability
Or anything that would slow down my aforementioned RtCW or Warcraft III if it was run in the background.
There's nothing inherently wrong with using Windows over Linux. You just have to play to each of their strengths. Linux has stability, speed and power. Windows has lots of games.
Cheers,
Bill Kerney
A Mac user would probably say something similar, but here's why I have a dual-boot Win2K/Debian notebook that runs Win2K 95% of the time....
- it doesn't crash (no blue screens in 3 years, and if an app goes down, it doesn't affect the rest of the system)
- all hardware & perhipherals are fully supported, usually out of the box but sometimes with an easy download from the manufacturer (when I buy a wireless card or scanner or web cam, I don't have to research the "driver situation" before hand -- I can simply shop for features & performance)
- this is superficial, but most applications (Free/Open/Commercial/Closed) seem to aesthetically match, in terms of GUI look & feel, widget behavior, layout/spacing, etc. I guess I'd call this "polish" or "fit & finish". This isn't a reflection on functionality, but it all just looks standardized and refined on Win2K, compared to KDE/Gnome. And of course, the Mac beats even Win2K on this front, at the cost of having fewer apps available. Some Linux app GUIs just look -embarrassing-.
1. Photoshop - really isn't a full featured open source equal
2. Open Office doesn't work with a lot of MS docs - we tried
3. Employee changes - sure I can handle Linux on a desktop - but if I leave, I'd bet my replacement couldn't
4. Already a mixed bag for IT - we use PC's and Macs and about 4 flavors of each, stretching our IT resources thin already
5. Where's the third party support - if the IT guy is unavailable, most of us can tweak/fix/support our own boxes and the software that's on it. I'm not the IT guy who fixes broken boxes and I don't want to be if that guy is out.
6. Though it might be short sighted, out CEO believes that you get what you pay for - free OS equals no one resposible for OS when it f@cks up.
7. Servers great - desktops? haven't we already gone over this before?
Design applications. Pure and simple. I don't know why, but there just isn't an acceptable version of ANY of the applications I need to make my mortgage payments: Photoshop, (and the tons of plug-ins I've spent money on) Illustrator, Quark Flash (etc. Ad Nausium) Do I know why? No, but until those come my way Linux just isn't even an option.
- ------- There are ten kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who... Huh?
If the game makers would put out the games I want to play for Linux I would use it for my PC. I currently use Debian for my web and ftp servers. But... Even with the push to Linux by main stream business and the apparent market buzz about it I don't think game makers will bother putting out linux distros in any volume for a while. Then you tack the DMCA on top of it and you realize not even the open source comunity can fill that gap.
Please. Not the GUI argument again. Why do you guys make these things up? What makes you think that it is slower? Quit running X in framebuffer mode!
Of course, for everything else, including games, email, publishing, music, UNIX development and web surfing, there's Linux.
(VMWare would be nice but there's that $300 price tag.)
Finding God in a Dog
Granted that's slowly changing. I currently also run a Windows 95 based MP3 player, every time I look at putting Linux on it it boils down to "I have a slow internet connection". My semi-portable DVD player is the same. I'm extremely close to requiring only a single Windows machine. Do other OS'es have thier place? Sure, my dialup router is Linux based, and I wouldn't replace it with a Windows machine unless you paid me some fat stacks of cash. For the other two systems, to convert to linux I'd just need a CD w/ the files and someone to help me through configuration. For my main system, it'll be a while. I have alot of apps that I'm settled into, but very few that I'm locked into.
Reluctant to switch? Sometimes. But it works both ways.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Windows users are very similar to Linux users in that they both value freedom highly. Just with Windows users they value the freedom to run the largest selection of games, and the freedom to install the latest and greatest funky hardware and have it work the day it comes out.
I think you will find that this is the reason for most things in the world with humans.
As a whole, we don't like change. Changing requires work and relearning. Some of us love this, and do it just to do it. The masses don't including people here at slashdot.
You will also find the most new users will use windows out of the box because everyone else they know is using it, and they can help you with it.
So, here it is:
What you learned on
Games
Ease of use
Help is easier to find
Every system at work is windows
More applications compatibilty in relation to the rest of you world without some tweaking.
All in all, the issue is that everything I need to do I can do on windows, why make it harder for myself just to use linux. When linux is as easy to use, you don't need to tweak it to be compatible with everything else, and I can play games on it, that is when it is a force. Until then it is just trying to catch up. Once it does I will give it a look for a desktop machine, until this time comes it will just run my DNS/Apache/Sendmail at work.
Linux is rock solid as a server for what I use it for. I don't have the time to tinker with linux all day to get something I want to work, at work on my desktop.
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
No, really.
The Air Force went to Microsoft Exchange servers across the board, forcing Outlook on everyone. It's funny, all of the real work here is done by IBM SP2's or Solaris-based servers (no linux, sorry), yet the administrative side of the house is entirely MS.
Of course, all incoming E-mail is handled by sendmail on a Solaris-platform.
On a side note, my Windows 2000 desktop here at work locks up on me about once a week. Of course, the tech staff solution is to...
Step one: reload the operating system
Step two: rebuild the machine
It doesn't end there. I work on some of the Solaris-based servers, and we have users who are constantly cycling power. No matter how many times we try to explain to them these are not Windows machines, they never listen. Then they wonder why the operating system is corrupt.
Oh, and I use Windows 98 at home for games. I have an INTEL-based Solaris 8 system for doing real work.
Since I have been meaning to track down something to do the same with radio shows, what program are you using?
The main reason I don't switch completely is my sound card. Philips doesn't seem to see any need for Linux drivers and ALSA doesn't support it. Coming up second is Trillian. I like that better than any of the AIM/ICQ alternatives that I've seen for Linux...oh yeah, and games too.
Besides games, I suspect the true answer for most people is ignorance (not stupidity, so don't throw a fit). Most people don't understand how much you can do with Linux or what they are missing. They don't know anything about Linux, and they assume they can't do this or that on Linux when Linux actually supported it before Microsoft in many cases. They have no frame of reference. Along with the ignorance comes fear of change or of looking stupid to others.
Linux is my primary desktop at home. I keep a Windows partition for a few games, but most of my favorite games run under Linux. I have to use Windows at work because I am directed to do so.
There needs to be some kind of utility that figures out dependencies, then goes and DOWNLOADS AND INSTALLS THEM for you
You must have only ever used Redhat, since both Mandrake and Debian have their own tools which do this.
Mandrake users can use the Mandrake Control Center or urpmi , Debian users use Apt.
SuSE uses Conectiva's port of apt to rpm, so that really just leaves Redhat and slackware.
Dependencies? What are those? Never see them (besides the few extra packages that get installed when I want something new installed).
My server logs report roughly 83% of box's going to my site are windows machines that follow my sig off of slashdot.
%5 or so are Macs.
Although, slashdot does return about 90% of the 4% netscape users.
Just neat facts...
Work system: it's the only OS family that runs our bug reporting system client (Clarify ClearQuality). Otherwise, it'd be a self-supported Linux system. Corporate standards dictate MSOffice as the app suite, but everything (except for Outlook) now has fairly effective equivalents that run on Linux. The funny thing is that the development environment is actually HP-UX, accessed using Exceed.
Home system: will be all Linux once I migrate the e-mail out of LookOut!, find a suitable genealogy program, and get a high-speed connection to download the stuff that I want to run ... I don't have time to replace everything yet. It's dual-bootable to a couple of Linux kernels, but I won't argue for part marks in an all-or-nothing type question.
Wife's laptop: she's got to write papers and I'm not allowed to fiddle with the software until she graduates :-) This restriction is probably a good thing, since the last attitude adjustment her machine got took 30 hours.
The Seventh Rule: Take others more seriously than yourself, particularly when you are leading them.
For myself, most (90% or more) of my Slashdot browsing is done from work. And unfortunately, we have a few business applications that can only be used from Windows. So I'm sure that's contributing to the mostly-Windows stats that you see. At home, I use Red Hat Linux 8 all the way. My (non-geek) wife does, too.
That said, as more and more of our business functions at work are made web-accessible, I have less reliance on using Windows2000 as my work platform. I am fortunate to have a boss that doesn't mind us using Linux on the desktop - in fact, he pretty much encouraged it for anyone in our unit who doesn't need access to our Novell network. All our web servers are running Linux, though.
We have one person here who is running full-time on Linux (OpenOffice, etc.), and I'd like to see more of my staff running on Linux. If I had access to a Novell5 client for Linux that was TCP-only (the future of our network will no longer route IPX) then I think I could use Linux at work 90% of the time. After Feb '03 when we have a major implementation point to put much of our business functions on web applications, I would be able to go Linux full-time (with a Novell5 client for Linux, that is.)
-jh
Solidworks, Protel, trueSpace, MSVC++.
'nuff said.
I'm forced to use Windows 2000 on my work laptop. At home I use MacOS X primarily. I don't know which I would consider my "main" machine but these days I've been spending a lot more time computing at work than home so I may have answered windows had I answered this poll.
Occasionally I fiddle around with Linux or FreeBSD at home. I like them both a lot but my mac really is the better tool for most of what I do.
If there were adequate pro audio tools available for Linux that I could depend on for day to day production duties, I would take my Win 2000 lisences and chuck them in the garbage. Until Aurdour is really up and running (read as stable binaries that a musician, not a programmer, can install), no dice.
Don't Panic!
Can't you see that was MS trying to pry into our minds so that they can dominate the market even more-so!
You're supposed to answer "'cause I love the BSoD"
I am a web developer. While all the server side apps I develop are on Linux and FreeBSD, the "GUI", if you will, has an audience that is primarily Windows, so I need to know how it works and feels. Also, I edit video and no one has developed Linux drivers for my capture card and I simply do not have time to. Also, I do a great deal of Flash development and it is quirky in WINE. The last, but certainly not least thing keeping me on Windows is Logic Audio Platinum. I have invested to much money in that and use it way to much to start over on another OS. Multitrack/MIDI is not a strong suit of Linux or OpenSource (I mean to the degree Logic is, sure there are audio apps out there, but they do not compare in features). I hope that changes, but until then I am going to have to run my Windows Version of Logic Audio because it does everything I need.
~g~
I use Redhat for my main Desktops and the only reason I keep windows around is for that odd website that only supports Windows.
However, I was in my C#.NET class the other day and the instructor said...
"Microsoft makes Mac, they make the OS, they make the software that runs on it."
Anyone know what she was talking about? Do they really have any part in how the OS is built?
"Shut up about my driving. You're still alive."
I use Windows and encourage others to use windows because I am co-author of the system. I own stock in Microsoft and it makes me money.
Unlike the linux heads here, I spend a lot of time in the other camp listening to what they have to say.
I actually do have a Mandrake install on my second computer. I find no compelling reason to use that system for anything in particular however. My web server runs on an NT box running a hand coded server which uses IO completion ports which are not present on linux. My games dont run on linux. The mozilla browser is pretty good, but does not run certain activex controls like the Zone.
I have switched to Linux many times. But I always come back. I'm using a stripped WinME (ie with 98lite applied to rip out Internet explorer and all other extraneous crap and install fast Win95 explorer).
- Ghost Recon
- OpenOffice without cursor droppings (maybe this is an Xfree thing or a video driver thing, I dunno-- does anyone know? ie when you do CTRL-ARROW and cursor shadows are left after each word you skip over; or when you do CTRL-F and a cursor dropping is left after each letter you type)
- more intuitive use of flash cards
- more intuitive sharing of folders (though in some distros apparently this is just as easy with right-clicks)
Other than that, I've used Linux happily for long periods with openoffice, phoenix, xmms, gaim, sylpheed (email) etc. I used KDE, GNOME and Ratpoison and actually preferred Rat Poison because it was so clean and small. But... back to WinME for now.
I've used WinXP on friend's notebook but I hated it. Seemed everything just got in the way of my setting things up etc. but maybe I just have a lot of ingrained habits from a decade of Windows and Linux use.
I never said I paid for windows, just use it. And I still use it because I use Dreamweaver, Newsbin Pro, Photoshop, and many other programs that aren't available on linux. And no, I'm not going to lose countless productive hours at $50 / hour to learn the gimp, and no, I'm not going to design my pages in vi or emacs.
Only two things! Hardware support (because of the big hardware manufacturers, and not because of Microsoft) for Windows is provided by each company that creates these devices. In OSS we all figure out the hardware ourselves and write drivers (most often) As such, half of my Windows hardware won't work fully or at all on ANY distribution of linux. I use Debian now on my laptop where I got lucky with the hardware support.
Games. Oh yes. Although new stuff like UT and UT2K3 and Quake 3 Arena has been ported, I can't play Half-Life on Linux without busting my ass for WineX.
In summary -- the support from bluechip manufacturers for open source operating systems bites. This becomes a loophole. Manufacturers don't support Linux because of the small user base. But the small user base is BECAUSE of the lack of manufacturer support. So until people go *nix of their own will, little will happen.
1. Personally, I use Linux whenever I'm not troubleshooting a problem with someone's Windows install. To be fair, it is usually the USER'S fault as opposed to Windows, but not always -- downloading trojaned warez; opening unscanned .EXEs, etc.
2. My daughter just moved to the "laptop team" at her middle school, where they get almost all their work/homework on a laptop. They *require* Windows/Office/IE and have a couple other programs they install. At first, I had her on RedHat with Mozilla (Java/Flash/Real plugins), XPDF, and OpenOffice 1.0.1 on their wireless network. While 95% of everything DID work, she wasn't proficient enough with OpenOffice and the instructor didn't have time to figure the differences between MS Office/OO to help her all the time. If she was more proficient, she might have pulled it off. OO generated perfectly compatible Excel/PowerPoint documents.
3. At the office, they have more complex Excel and Word documents that don't translate 100% and get screwy on the formatting. Also, since we can't move all 5,000+ users at once we must have almost seamless interoperability with the data. There is a mix of Office 97/2000/XP and OpenOffice. MS Office 97/2000 formats [doc/xls/ppt] are the corporate standard. They are NOT going to translate the thousands of existing documents to OO XML formats, nice as it is. Also Visio and Project are requirements.
In the end, the computer is a tool. In a complex office environment Linux *MUST* be able to seamlessly deal with Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Visio and Project documents. Until that time, it isn't a clear choice for the best tool.
It *IS* getting there, though. OpenOffice is good enough in most cases -- the few complex/odd documents in Excel can be manually translated over and the rest left as is. Mr Project and Kivio/Dia are coming along but will NEED import/export abilities before Linux "turns the office corner".
-Charles
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I have to use WinNT at work. The application I support has a Solaris server (yay!) but requires WinNT clients (boo!) so here I am. It's not going to change any time soon, either, unfortunately. I'm sure my situation is not unique.
At home I use a Mac primarily, and dabble with Linux and NetBSD to learn what I can. If Linux is an option some day, I'd like to be ready. So far I've determined that I like bash for my shell and Blackbox for my desktop. I'm upgrading the Mac to X.2 soon.
My wife still uses Win98 on her home PC because nothing she does (Word, web, email) requires anything more. (She bought it before we were married.) I did set her to dual-boot to Mandrake the last time I had to rebuilt her machine, though I overwrote the boot sector and haven't fixed that yet. I have weaned her from several other MS products though.
Constitutionally Correct
For personal use, I have a Sony Vaio running WinXP. My wife has an Apple iBook running MacOS9 (upgrade coming soon). A laptop supplied by the company is an HP Omnibook XE3 currently running Gentoo Linux, but w/o X11 set up due to lack of free time.
I chose the Vaio/XP combo over a TiBook/OSX combo due to $$$, although I am a Mac fan and have owned several Mac systems in the past.
From what I've seen, the QA/QC factor of Windows systems has improved (I have yet to see a BSOD on my Vaio), while Apple's has declined, though ymmv. My wife's iBook's trackpad frequently spontaneously changes the speed setting to the slowest possible and suffers from numerous system freezes and crashes. I contrast this with my long-gone PowerBook Duo 270c which never had serious problems in spite of the fact that I voided the warranty by opening the case and installing a GV Mercury 19.2 modem myself.
My feelings toward Linux/BSD/Solaris are love/hate. I don't want to be system admin. Yes, I know that I have to build the OS from scratch with the Gentoo distro, but it seemed that esoteric things like, oh, a laptop system with USB, or 1394 or other things required some kind of patch and a few hours searching the Internet trying to find someone's HOWTO and config files and doing a kernel recompile, etc. etc. etc. anyway. I have tried a few Linux distros and, surprisingly, the only clean out-of-box install I got was with MkLinux on an Apple PowerMac 6100. Go figure!
Personally, I don't care about the OS. I want to get work done or play games or design application software. If the tools work and the platform is stable and I can find a Java VM to that I can, indeed, Write Once and Run Everywhere (tm) then I am a happy camper.
Do I like M$ business practices? No, but that wasn't the question, was it?
Being a Windows developer I have to keep at least on machine at home running Windows. I do have a Gentoo Linux laptop that I do most of my hobby type stuff and read email and write articles. If I were not a Windows developer I would have dumped Windows at home Long ago. And of course I am using Windows at work to write this message. ;)
Sorry my bullshit sensor overloaded.
There's a lot of GUI environments on linux. Most are a work in progress and generally they don't work together very well.
Most of the applications I use on a daily basis have alternatives on linux. Sadly, most of the alternatives are of lesser quality in terms of usability, stability, features, etc. Actually there are a few apps I'd like to spend some time with. For example evolution seems like a decent mail client that has some interesting features.
Probably these are issues I could work around. I'm quite comfortable tweaking linux to suit my needs. Currently I'm fooling around with Debian in vmware.
What I can't work around is that most of the games I enjoy are windows only. In addition I have several pieces of hardware which are either not supported at all or with degraded performance/functionality/stability under linux. I didn't invest in an audigy + geforce ti 4200 just to listen to stereo sound and run a couple of outdated games. Not to mention my scanner, camera, wheel, usb mouse. Probably, with a lot of work, I can make most of these things work to some extent. However, the fact remains that they were designed for windows and not for linux.
Jilles
...it makes Yahoo! look better.
I only use windows as my desktop os.. any servers would run linux.
As much as i dont like m$ i would have to say that windows as a desktop is better than the linux desktop.
Untill all games run easily on windows and photoshop and 3dsmax are ported to linux (at least Mac OSX)... i'm staying with windows
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
I have two machines -- one dual-boots Win2k and Debian, the other is dedicated Windows and I despise Microsoft.
This machine, the one that dual-boots, only goes into Windows to play games (and if it wasn't for America's Army, that would never happen). The other machine is permanently booted into Windows and I use that exclusively for my media files; streaming video (news), audio, mp3's, etc.
So I guess the reason for Linux is all my primary use. Surfing, email, developing PHP code. Everything else is booting into Windows because it is generally dirt easy to set up and handles media with no issues.
I'm a linux fan but lord only knows that I'm still a bit hazy on driver modules, how they work, how to troubleshoot, etc. Anything but the most basic problem in Linux generally has me spending a good chunk of time trying to fix it. The difference is that with Linux it is fixable, but with Windows the worst-case scenario is a re-install. And since there is nothing important there and on a seperate partition, that's not such a bad thing.
My
Limekiller
I'm a Windows 2000 user. My computer is stable. It's easy to use maintain. It plays all my games. Well, long story short, I don't have any complaints about my computer. So why should I switch? Sounds like it'd painful for me to switch to Linux without a really compelling reason.
Frankly, the benefit I can see to me switching to Linux is that suddenly I'd be popular here on Slashdot. "hey look! I can use a real OS. After a steep learning curve, I can do what people are already doing in Windows! Woohoo! Down with MS!!"
"Derp de derp."
My daily driver is a Mac, my other machines are mostly FreeBSD (one runs Linux, one runs Solaris, one runs IPSO), and my games are delivered via PlayStation 2. All in all, it's a pretty good setup, and it has the bonus of having a surprisingly low Microsoft content.
Nearly 100% Software Compatability. Just about every software vendor designs for Windows. When Mandrake makes a distro of Linux with Wine that works better.. I will whole heartly switch... in fact I'm looking forward to the day. Also, I don't know enough about linux yet, that would ease my transition. I need a computer that works and when I need to install something, I don't want to have to download a tarball and compile myself.
Visual Studio.NET. There are some good development tools on Linux but nothing touches VS.NET for easy of use. I also like that I don't have to mess around with the command line to do anything in windows. EVERYTHING is GUI based for me. Windows is also more consistent in the UI (sure, not between versions though) unlike Linux where the apps run under whatever GUI toolkit the user had installed. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to switch tomorrow, but that's like programming in Notepad. No thanks. Other apps I love: Outlook (patched properly), SQL Server 2000.
Note: I am a software engineer and have done enough Windows and Linux cross platform GUI and non GUI coding to not be considered a Linux idiot.
Caution: Well thought-out and knowledgeable opinions ahead. If these disturb you , read no further.
I will not be switching from Windows to Linux as my main platform any time soon because:
1) Less hassle dealing with the OS. I don't care anything about the "OS" part when I'm using a machine. I use applications. Windows is far easier to install and use applications on than Linux. application and install break windows far less than on Linux IMHE.
2) The applications themselves. Though Linux has the basics covered. There is nothing even close to replacing Reason, T-Racks and Wavelab on the music front. Then there is the ubiquitous Photoshop. Though I couldn't afford the full version, my copy of Photoshop Elements for $69 is 90% of Photoshop for 1/10th the price. There is nothing that even comes close to the funtionality of Photoshop Elements for Linux. And of course Games. I work hard and I play hard (all on the computer of course).
3) Development. Believe it or not developing for Windows is infinitely nicer than developing on Linux (Okay, that's just my opinion). The tools are all equal (gcc, perl, python, vi, emacs) up to far more advanced (Visual Studio) and far more varied to choose from.
Basically, everything I do of any importance on Windows has no real counterpart on Linux. There are a lot of wannabe applications (GIMP etc) but they are usually pale shadows of real apps. The major windows (and Mac) apps are just too frequently not there for Linux.
Money concerns: Free is great, but when you can't get what you want for free, then pay is the way. The current state of free is not up to the current state for pay. I work for a living, I make money, I have no problem paying other peoeple for the work they do.
Even if everything else completely equal, the fact that I have 10 years of Windows and Windows Apps know-how in my head means that I would still benefit from staying.
It's been said many many times, but until Linux is considerably better than Windows on all these fronts, there is no incentive to switch. I (and most computer users I'd bet) are not political grand-standers, were tool users, plain and simple. Best tool for the job wins. For all my jobs, Windows wins.
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
As a desktop user, I do use Win XP for the applications (and some games). It it still the main problem of Linux, the lack of applications (and this has not changed since ages). Ok you got everything for the servers but for the end users it is not the case. I do like Photoshop and I do not want to go into the whole process of understanding The Gimp, I just dont have the time for this. I know there is "equivalent" but for most of them, they are crippled version of the ones you got on Windows. Also as a chemistry student, I've got lots of softwares that I wont find any replacement. But I do use Linux as my firewall/code box. I'm also very interested in Mac OS X but I can not afford a 3000$ machine for the same power I do have right now. So I do not have much choice, unfortunately.
At both my previous employer and my current one, we were locked into Windows on the desktop by special purpose software.
At my previous employer, an engineering and manufacturing company, it was essential to have the ability to run AutoCAD. (There were also other issues, but they paled compared to this.) Sure, there are other CAD packages, but switching CAD is even more painful than switching OS. [shudder]
If someone can convince Autodesk to port it back to *nix, or if some project like WINE can get it running on a *nix, it'd remove a huge lock-in for Microsoft.
At my current employer, the limitation is a medical records application. It seems entirely unlikely that the vendor will shift platforms. However, I *do* have the option of providing this app via windows terminal services, so a good windows terminal application for a *nix would again create a possibility where none now exists.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
I really, really, really want to run linux consistently, but I just don't have the time to put in to feeling comfortable with it. I learned windows from 3.1 by trial and lots of error and - "settled" with job, wife and kid I don't have the freedom to spend the time on becoming a competent linux user. I've installed it several times, but feel like an idiot concerning issues such as security. The idea of running linux behind my adsl connection, while not knowing shit about how to secure my pc, keeps me booting up windows instead of my linux installation.
The only reasons I switch over to Windows
1.) Device Drivers - most companies have drivers for everything BUT linux. I will, however, note that with my Gigabyte GA-7VRXP mobo with a Promise ATA/133 controller embedded no distro of linux would recognize it. Then I found Mandrake 9 beta 4... installed without a hitch and has run perfectly for me since then. M$ WindowsXP Professional wouldn't even recognize it... I had to change the setting in the bios to ATA/33, then install and then go back into the bios and change it. This has been my major gripe with using linux... I've since changed my opinioin.
2.) Kazaa, Nero, and Pro Tools. I haven't been able to find a comparable file sharing p2p app under linux... anyone that knows of one... let me know, I would appreciate it greatly! Granted, I haven't messed around with cd-burning under linux much, but Nero is just so easy to use and I've loved it ever since I first used it. Pro Tools is audio recording / mixing software... pretty much industry standard. I can't get the free version to work under WindowsXP, either. So I have to keep Windows 98 SE around as well. Again, any suggestions on audio recording / mixing software for linux would be great.
3.) Games. I did get Quake2 running under linux, but it still wasn't as easy to run and I couldn't find some of the drivers that I needed to use anything but software mode for video. Also, I play Bridge on yahoo games website. It won't load the app with Mozilla or Opera under linux... haven't really investigated why... but this is one of my reasons for using Windows.
Aside from these reasons, I stay under linux all the time now.
Again, if anyone can offer suggestions / alternatives to my above reasons, I would be more than happy to hear them.
thundercatzlair
Games pretty much always work with windows
I need IE for my google toolbar
I already know how to use windows in depth. I work with computers all day, and really don't have any interest in figuring out how to do administrative stuff on a new one at night. I can use Linux/UNIX just fine, but my knowledge of config files, etc is not very good.
I'm a student and get Microsoft software essentially free.
These are in no particular order, and there are lots of other reasons. But its a start.
In my case, it's the software.
:-)
Not MS-office and stuff...
I use openoffice, gimp and as much other open software as I can even though I use windows.
But! Here's what doesn't exist for Mac or Linux:
The software I need for my synths.
The software I need to use for school.
Good Divx players. (No. The ones that exist suck.)
On the other hand, I would never even consider using an MS product in my servers.
/.Mattsson - My native language is not English, so please don't whine over linguistic errors. (That's lame anyway...)
Here goes with some honesty, so I fully expect hostility. Be gentle, okay?
/. people were proudly proclaiming how fast it was and how tiny its footprint was. Please, point me in the right direction. I looked at SuSE, RedHat, Mandrake, and a couple of others, and everyone specified 64MB of RAM minimum -- that's not a small footprint, that's the same as an NT workstation! And, speedwise, my RedHat installation is the same as my W2K Pro installation on my dual-boot system. No tuning on the Linux system; but, then again, I've not tuned the W2K system, either.
Entrenchment
The vast majority of my work is on Windows. The software areas in which I specialize (for example, document management systems) don't do Linux, by and large. I have to know these systems, inside and out, and know the platforms they use, inside and out. For me, that's Windows. I have to know it, and know it well. Linux is strictly a spare time thing, and I really don't have that much spare time. Yeah, I know, if I were a true geek, I'd be staying up until all hours on my Linux system. What can I say? I don't play computer games, either, so it's certainly not that that's keeping me on Windows (unlike every other post I've read in this story so far).
Comfort
I know Windows, and I can get it to work. I fully expect the flaming to start about now, but here are some simple facts which represent nothing more than my experience. My Windows servers don't crash. My Windows workstations don't crash. Personally, I'm just as happy to chalk it up to the fact that I know what I'm doing when I set the things up (and, admittedly, W2K is pretty stable). Yes, I have to reboot for patches. But failures and unplanned outages -- forget it, I don't get them.
Linux, on the other hand, has given me some weird experiences, particularly on laptops, and, yes, occasionally I've had to do a hard restart because it was hung. I'm sure it's because I didn't download the latest drivers, or tweak the settings correctly, or rework my configuration script...but guess what, people -- I don't have to do that on Windows. Again, it's a comfort thing.
Disillusionment
Boy, I have a horrible feeling about what this might provoke, but here goes. When I first started to look at Linux, everywhere I looked on
Those, for me, are the main reasons. Windows is just too important for me at work to not know it intimately, and Linux doesn't offer enough compelling reasons to dedicate a lot of time becoming better attuned to it. Remember, I'm just being honest!
In my case it's not having enough money to buy a Mac.
Note that I didn't say Macs were more expensive. With the economy the way it is and my girlfriend out of work I just don't have the cash I used to.
Besides, we're still paying-off her Powerbook. When that's done I'll likly order my 1 GHz Superdrive-equiped Powerbook.
Linux does not run many graphics applications that I use (3ds max, After Effects, Premiere, Illustrator, the list goes on...), does not run many games that I like (Half-Life/Counter-strike, Medieval: Total War, Falcon 4.0, Battlefield 1942), and does not support some of my hardware (Aureal Vortex 1 based soundcard, winmodem). The alternatives in graphics applications are inferior (I do not consider Maya or Lightwave on linux as alternatives to 3ds max, I use those software on Windows already and each is suited to certain tasks). Installing most open source software (notable exceptions; Open Office, Phoenix, no doubt there are others) that I'd like to try is also a tedious ordeal.
There are the general Win 'solutions', but there's a big difference between the generalities, and the odd little 'quirks' you don't really know what to do with unless you have to deal with them yourself. In my running Linux around 80% of the time at work, in some ways I feel my ability to support other users has slipped a little from where it was.
Then, there's Dreamweaver. I assist the main web developer, and he uses Dreamweaver since it's what he knows (not the most 'techie' person), and it's what he can be the most productive with. Being only part time with the web development, it's not exactly in the budget to get a Mac for me. So, I run with a Mandrake/'98 dual boot on an old Pentium II 450, flip over to Win for web development when I need it, and get along just fine.
B'damned if I don't feel somehow 'unclean' every time I have to boot over to 'the dark side' though... The more I run Enlightenment for my WM, the more I dislike the GUI from Redmond...
There's no wrong way, to eat a Rhesus...
The reason you stick to Win32 isn't "Applications", it's "the specific 3D Graphics applications that are needed for particular tasks I do".
It always aggrivates me when someone says "Windows has more applications". No. It doesn't. Let me repeat:
No. It doesn't.
GNU/Linux probably has more; it definitely comes with more on the CD. Yet, I still wouldn't use the language "I use GNU/Linux because it has more applications", I'd say "...because it comes with powerful, familiar applications for programming and graphics"
I think a lot of us stick with Windows because it's necessary for our jobs/school. In the case of needing Windows for your job, many people can afford multiple computers, and keep Windows on only one. But for students, computers aren't exactly a cheap commodity.
I've attended many schools, and ever since junior high i've been expected to submit projects to my teachers as Microsoft Word documents. I stuck myself in a nasty position when I switched to linux; I need to either do my work on someone else's computer, or shut down everything i'm doing and reboot to Windows (that's a much bigger hassle than it sounds like). Of course, submitting RTF files is always an option, but some teachers can be amazingly ignorant and will refuse anything they don't immediately recognize. Plus, that doesn't help when I have to make Excel or Powerpoint projects.
As well, many schools now require students to run particular programs that only run in Windows. You won't get much sympathy when you try to explain to your teacher that WINE ate your homework. One of my friends has to do homework online at a website that supports no browser other than Internet Explorer.
Many people simply aren't willing to deal with being punished for switching to linux.
Scratched Emulsion
The main reason I use windows is for games, other than that, it sits in linux. Except for my laptop (which I am writing this from.) The hard drive space on my laptop prevents me from having both linux and windows on it, and I use it for alot of class related work which requires...windows. If every game that came out was released on linux, my desktop systems would run linux exclusively. And sorry, WineX just doesn't cut it for me.
Derek Greene
i make maps and for the kind of maps i make the best package i've found is fractal terrains and campaign cartographer by profantasy. i use MacOS X primarily, have a linux box, but for this creative (non-GIS) map making i am almost obligated to use Windows (natively or emulated, but windows regardless). otherwise i've managed to delete M$ from my personal life (work... that's another story).
Until recently, my parallel port scanner was not supported in Linux. The recent version of SANE finally supports the canon parallel port scanners but only after the very hard work of an independant team (independant of Canon and the sane project). Unfortunately, Redhat *still* does not include that module in their SANE rpms (eventhough the rawhide one should have it in there based on SANE version) so I have to go to Windows land occationally.
... that seems close now.
That and games. I am eagerly awaiting the release of the NWN client for linux
At home and the office I use a Win2k Pro for pretty much everything. The applications that tie me into this envioroment: MS Office (I tried OpenOffice and wasn't up to snuff) including Outlook (for PIM purposes). MS Visio, Dreamweaver. Plus, drivers are easy to come by and support for almost any kind of hardware doesn't require an extensive hunt on the web.
Hibernation is pretty cool, also, and for games it is the way to go (unless you buy a console).
For my servers, tho, I use Solaris (on the Sparc boxes) and FreeBSD (on the Intel boxes) with the odd Linux box for experimental purposes.
No sig
I love pain, suffering and frustration, so Windows it is!
(Actually, it's because I get paid to write Windows software. At home, I use an ancient Mac, but I don't spend much time on the 'puter at home because I have a life)
Moderators - humor alert.
No sig? Sigh...
I dont use Windows at home, and I dont use it at work. It's just not worth the hassle.
As far as games go there are enough, and when I get bored of those it's more fun to work on developing my own games instead.
I have a partition with Windows on my computer so I can (someday) finish playing "Vampire: The Redeption". Occasionally, I use it because the CD burner is easier to use under Windows, or if someone sends me an MS Office document, since OpenOffice is still too buggy for general use, and KWord doesn't convert well.
;)
Other than that, my computer is always booted to Gentoo. Even my wife's computer runs Gentoo. Our internal server runs RedHat, but may end up with some BSD variant.
As soon as CD writing software gets more reliable under linux, and OpenOffice gets more stable, I probably won't have a need for the partition. Well, until I finish that damn gamn, anyway.
bytesmythe
Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
-- Scott Meyer
As much as it pains me to say it, I really can't make up my mind. My work and main home PC's are running XP, but I also have a PC at home running Linux that handles my Ogg repository, and my laptop is a TiBook running OS X 10.2.2. And, as much as it pains me to say, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. If I could have a machine that could boot XP, Linux, and Mac OS, then I think I would be truly happy, but that's a pipe dream. Or is it?
I only use windows in VMWare sessions for testing apps before sending to QA folks.
I have CodeWeavers Office product for running MSOffice2K, works really great. I don't play many games (except sim city 3k on linux).
At home its linux only, runs my web server, when my wife logs in she gets her desktop and apps in Spanish, I get mine in English. MS would have me purchase 2 different versions of windows (english and spanish) and dual boot, ick.
Linux is actually easier for my wife to use and I don't have to worry about her doing permanent damage to the OS, downloading viruses, etc...
I'm reading this in NS7 on Mandrake (at work) but, I sometimes run IE5.5 on linux with the CodeWeavers product.
Side note, I don't hate MS or their products. Many of them are very good and have very good quality.
I am a professional programmer, and need a higher performance OS. Windows is fine for Grandma, but, it just doesn't cut it in the world of professional development.
My personal view is that a PC for games is a totally shitty value for your money. I have a Mac, which has a half-dozen games (mostly gifts). I use the Mac for my work. I have a Playstation 2, which I use for games.
Now, considering that a PS2 will work 100% of the time (no patches/bugs/drivers/cruft), has a bigger screen, and pretty much the same number of games as the Windows platform (insofar as both platforms have way more excellent games than I'll ever buy).... and considering that the high-end video card you need to buy (for the PC you've already bought) costs nearly as much by itselfas a whole PS2/GC/XB.... why do you guys do it?
It's not a troll, I really want to know. Is it certain games? Keyboard-based games? The supa-bleeding-edge graphics and sound?
It's just a variant of the original poster's question, really, but I find my Mac/PS2 combination works really well. I don't want for many games.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
One word: software. I can't run any of the Macromedia MX products or Adobe products in Linux. If I could I would completely switch of MS products in a heartbeat.
I have a feeling I am not alone.
Macromedia and Adobe would be doing the web developer community a great service by coming out with reliable solid versions of their software for Linux.
HTML and PHP scripting can be accomplished fine in Linux but many web developers can't do their jobs without being able to run Macromedia's software to author Flash.
- Interface speed. Most of the window managers on my 700 MHz machine seem slow and clunky. There are all kinds of artifacts in moving windows around. Under Windows, it's quite snappy. I have tried the lightweight WMs (Windowmaker, ICEWM, etc.), but inevitably there is some feature I want that they don't support.
- Focusing issues. Under Windows, the focus behavior is always consistent. Under Linux, regardless of how I set up focusing on my window manager, some applications don't listen.
- Clipboard consistency. The clipboard under Windows always works. Under Linux, there is more than one clipboard and getting them to communicate is a pain the rump, especially when emacs is involved.
- Microsoft Office. I don't feel like paying for Crossover Office, and OpenOffice is really slow. I was using it for a while under Windows, trying to do my part for the community, and eventually got tired of waiting for it to open documents.
- Windows Media Player. I love Yahoo's Launchcast. This is the coolest internet radio ever - it configures itself to you by your rated songs. Can't make it work under Linux. Again, I paid for Windows once, I don't want to pay for Crossover Office again.
- Opera. Opera under Windows is absolutely fabulous. Under Linux it looks poor and focuses badly (see above), effectively killing some of the keyboard shortcuts.
- Keyboard shortcuts. These work completely inconsistently across Linux apps. When combined with focusing issues, it's a nightmare under Linux. Is anyone else out there trying to avoid using the mouse? Windows handles this well.
- Fonts. I've tried em 'all, AA vs. non-AA, etc. They just look bad under all the Linux distros I've tried (though I'll admit I haven't tried the newest ones that have come out in the last couple of months). The fixes are always 30 minutes in hunting down dot files. I tried setting up Microsoft fonts under Mandrake, and it just confused the heck out of Opera. And they're always too small in the web browsers.
- Games. 'Nuff said.
- Ease of program installation. RPMs and dependencies stink. (I'll admit I have not tried apt-get.)
I would love nothing better than to dump Windows especially with Microsoft's licensing arrangements, etc. But Linux ain't there as a desktop.The reason that my network at the office is windows is because, as a GIS and Mapping firm, there are not any robust alternative production softwares. The main vendor has bought into the whole M$ licensing scheme (with much higher prices). One of my career goals is to develope a robust Open Source alternative, therefore aleviating my dependence on Windows. Unfortunately, I am a GIS major, and am just coming into programming, so I have alot to learn to be able to get there. I want to make sure that I create a usable product, not some buggy hacked up code that only sorta works.
I havent used windows at home in several years.
#1 reason people stay with Windows: WAREZ
While there may be a few, I do not know a single windows user, who does not steal software. (Use illeagal Copies, never registers winzip etc..)
Call me a troll, call me cranky, just don't call me late for dinner.
Get a free ipod.
1) Software I use is not available on linux. 3dsmax and Photoshop mainly.
2) I can install and uninstall software EASILY. I spent weeks trying to get tux racer to install in corel linux a couple years ago. Took just minutes to install it on windows.
3) Polish - Linux has lots of unfinished software available. Windows has lots of finished and polished software available which leads to less headaches on the desktop.
Among other things, my primary OS is Windows because of the development tools. People who have not used Visual Studio (or people who have only touched the surface) have no idea how excellent Microsoft's development tools are.
;) But when it comes to my professional activities -- I will be sticking to Windows for some time to come.
TAKE NOTE: Before my current job, I was only using Linux, writing Lisp and C code in emacs... so don't write me off as some Windows goober who needs fancy widgets to get by.
Anyway, back to my point.. Visual Studio is some smart software. The layout is intuitive, the toolboxes are the kind of toolboxes you want to keep around and not hide. The dynamic help is wonderful. The tool tips that show various function argument completions are a huge timesaver. The debugger is powerful and easy, built in beautifully with the editor.
VS is just a wonderfully put together development suite that has won me over. There are no open or free tools that even come close.. and believe me, I have used them. Even the commercial development suites for linux/unix don't come close.
Anywho, that is my two cents.
I still run Linux at home.. I need the command line
-gerbik
At home I keep a Win98 partition around to play games. While I am building up a collection of Mac Games, there isn't any chance that most of the older titles I like will be ported to the OS X. I also have three Linux Games, Decent III (which doesn't work on my PC), Heroes of Might and Magic III (fun) and The Sims (which is from the Mandrake Gaming Edition and is some kind of wierd Windows game that won't run in Windows but will run in WineX). Besides that, I have Windows games that have been made multi-platform through the release of Linux (or Mac or Dreamcast or all three) clients (like DOOM, Day of the Tentacle, etc.).
Now, I'm buying Mac games instead of Windows games in the future, so in time I expect I'll have more games for Mac than Windows. I'd like to mess around more with WineX, but I haven't gotten around to it.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
There's a reason for that.
You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
My favorite software is on Windows. I have not yet seen anything beat AIM, Outlook, or IE. Open Office is pretty nice, but I still like MS office better. Every piece of hardware I have works in windows. Out of the box. I know windows. For me, the cost of windows and its affiliated software is the same price as open source software. Windows 2000 is stable. I have never had it just crash on me. Sometimes individual software packages do, and destabilize the system to the point where I feel more comfortable rebooting, but I have never been just typing away and have something crash on me. For what I do on my machine, I dont need a command line as full featured as bash. Linux, as a server, not running X is stable. A default install of Redhat 7.2 (the last distro I tried) is not as stable as windows, imho. Configuring things is a pain in linux. I dont have to refer to a man page in windows to recall how to sort by date. I dont have to run find / -name to find a file I misplaced. I am not incapable of doing these things, but in windows it is easy. Yes, linux is more powerful. You can configure more things. I am waiting for OSS to eclipse the quality and userfriendliness of windows software. When the day comes that I feel linux has truly surpassed windows and is more ENJOYABLE to use, I will use it. But as for right now, I am quite content with not having to memorize commands, and I believe that windows is now a stable platform, and yes I really believe that it is more stable than a distro running X and KDE.
And I'm even more hesitent to set members of my family up with non-Windows computers--because I don't ever want to hear "I'd like to do that, but I can't because you stuck me with a Mac and I can't get the same programs everyone else can". It's a case of "No one gets uninvited from Thanksgiving for buying Microsoft", I suppose.
There are definite advantages to running the "default" computer that everyone else runs. Network effects are real, no matter how much we hate them.
One thing to note--so many people are here are pointing to games as the one reason they run Windows. I imagine once the entertainment-industry gets started with DRM, a whole lot of movies and music are going to be just as Windows-only as most games are. Seeing how Apple keeps trying to sell their computers as an entertainment hub, you'd think they'd be somewhat worried.
I would LOVE to switch every single PC at this office over to Redhat with OpenOffice but I NEED an outlook replacement!
:)
I'm not going to switch my 12 gig outlook store over to something else, its just not feasable right now (or in the forseeable future) but if someone somewhere would come up with a good outlook replacement that was FREE, I would switch in a heartbeat, and never look back.
No I didnt spell check this post...
Even though I write software for *nix environment, I use Windows XP on my workstation.
1. Hardware installation is a breeze.
2. Software installation is also a breeze.
3. Multimedia files play flawlessly on WinAmp and Windows Media Player (don't use the new one, go into the media player directory and make a shortcut to mplayer2, which is Media Player 6.4.
4. Free site licenses on Office and Visual Studios.
5. Easy file sharing with the other Windows workstations on the network.
6. Games
7. I'm used to the WinXP interface.
8. Very VERY seldomly has my WinXP machine crashed on me. In fact, it's more stable than my Linux install. The trick seems to be diligence in keeping only essential background services and putting together a computer with hardware that has been tested for stability and compatibility. I did this by buying a Dell...
I must admit that *nix is essential if you want a development platform for open source software. I'm currently considering a iBook or G4 Book for my next computer purchase.
At home, what keeps me from installing Linux as my main OS is Windows games. I only have Linux on one PC as a dual boot with Windows, but I rarely have a reason to use it.
(Yes, I know SOME Windows games will run under Linux with WINE or WINEX, but not the ones I want to play, or not as well as they run under Windows.)
I have a hobby of composing music. There's no music composing software available for Linux (none that I know of, and certainly none that is powerful).
Because I like it.
I like streaming video and audio. I also like Windows Media Player 9 series (I use the beta) and I like to have my machines easily talk to each other. I also like the idea of .net and I like to listen and watch multimedia files on my computer. Mozilla works for windows that what I use for browsing, AOL's freeware version of winamp does the job for playing oggs. And there's nothing else I need. Windows XP is an excellent system.
I have used linux since the days of kernel 2.0 but I still find myself more comfortable in windows because I like the laid back approach to getting things done. And at work I use windows 2000 and it's a dream. I just reboot at the end of the week. Everything is peachy with windows. There are no problems.
About 5 years ago, a research group in my CS department moved from unix to Windows because they were sick of maintaining Makefiles and because the project leader liked the environment of Microsoft Visual C++.
.dsp/.dsw project Makefiles and converts them to Unix makefiles.
Now, to get them back, kdevelop (or some equivalent project) will have to create a utility that reads MVC++
And ofcourse the inertia to do this is very high within the group - there seems to be no compelling reason for them to move.
The only reason I ever boot to Windows is for my wife to use Yahoo Messenger so that she can Voice chat and use the webcam. I tried using Gnomemeeting but it was spotty at best. Yahoo Messenger is far ahead of everyone else (it just works !).
The last reason I logon to a Windows 2000 server (via rdesktop) is to make Powerpoint presentations and Excel charts. Both of these tools are far better than their current Unix (StarOffice, KDE) equivalents. Also, most conferences only have PCs running Windows - so you have to use powerpoint (if you want to use the awesome animation that comes with it).
First of all, I have a small MIDI studio at home. Linux is nowhere near being able to provide support for most of the DAW (digital audio workstation) hardware that's available. Not to mention that I can't get Cubase or any of the other major DAW software on Linux. I'm a Unix Sysadmin (Solaris) for my day job, and I use Solaris 9 at work. BTW, as soon as someone can make a decent linux distro for Solaris with 64-bit userland support I will happily switch my workstation to Linux. As far as a desktop OS goes, Linux is light years ahead of the commercial unices in terms of useability.
Windows XP seems to have resolved most of the so-called reliability issues that older versions used to have, primarily by using signed device drivers. I frequently have 60-90 days of uptime on my main digital audio workstation (AMD Athlon XP 1700 w/ IDE RAID), and I only need to reboot whenever MS releases one of their "critical security updates". I haven't seen a BSOD for over a year now.
Having said all that, I would switch to Linux in a heartbeat if Steinberg, the manufacturers of Cubase, ported it, and if the newer firewire digital i/o devices got linux driver support.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Here's my reasons why:
1) Familiarity breeds content.
2) Constistent GUI (not dial-a-windows manager)
3) Better support. Say what you wish about open-source, but know that MS spends more money on testing that any other industry in the world.
4) Peer pressure - Not the say-no-to-drugs kind, but just the fact that most of my friends are Win users and we tend use the same apps/games.
5) Gaming - I'm a hardcore gamer, and let's face it, when my fix is released I want straight access, no port-to-linux latency.
6) Ego - I don't want to feel like a n00b, on an OS dominated by el33ts.
7) Age - I love tech, but as I get older, I'm becoming more set in my ways ("Get off the lawn!")
8) Time - Why reinvent the wheel learning a new OS, when the one I have is fine. I'm too busy anyway keeping up with the new buzzwords.
9) Greed - As a shareware developer, I want to target the market that sells.
10) Security (of mind) - At least I feel safe running Norton Antivirus, what's the equivalent of that in Linux?
The only reason why Windows is still around is
the same as it has been for at least five years:
The Applications Barrier To Entry.
Come up with a program that can import and export
MS Office documents with 99.9% accuracy, and the
largest barrier will be gone.
I first upgraded and installed Windows 95 so I could play Red Alert. I migrated to Windows as my primary OS when I got a CD burner. Sure, Linux would have support for it soon, but who knows if decent CD burning software would ever arrive. I had to use multiple programs in Windows to do various types of CD burning, but I couldn't get linux to do any of them.
Currently I have a linux web server and a win2k home machine. Win2k is remarkably stable for the amount of torture I put that machine through. To this day I'm still tortured with obnoxiously simple tasks like getting the firewall working on my linux machine. With Windows, I just install Norton and block everything. With linux, I have to go looking for instructions.
The instructions are out there, but they're outdated. That FIREWALL FAQ I keep running into, it's for kernel 1.2. They don't tell you that anywhere. Now it's IPCHAINS, oh wait, did it just change to IPTABLES? By the time someone writes instructions to help me get my firewall up and running, I'll be on a different kernel that uses an entirely new type of firewall. I had the same problem with bandwidth throttling - nightmare.
Why don't I use Linux now? Because half the apps I've grown up with don't work on Linux. If something breaks in Linux, I poke around for a while and usually get frustrated. If something breaks in Windows, I've been playing with it for so many years that I can fix what's wrong.
At work my boss likes to buy some of the latest hardware for me. I don't want to wait 6 months for someone to figure out how to make this video card work. I want to be working on my Pro/E models within 15 minutes of opening the box.
It isn't fear of textual prompts, because I still do quite a bit at a DOS prompt. My linux machine still has no monitor, I telnet in to do any maintenance.
I believe Linux is on its way, but it's just not there yet. For some tasks, such as most server tasks, I will gladly accept Linux as the ideal choice. However, for the desktop environment, Windows still has my attention.
One day while installing the Option Pack for Windows NT 4.0 I was confronted with the fact that the pack required me to install Internet Explorer 4.0 on my server. I think it had to do with changes in the MS Help System. I didn't want IE 4.0 on my server. It would replace my default explorer.exe and make system demands on my server that just wasn't necessary. I never browse the web from my server. That is when I realized, Microsoft wanted IE everywhere.
That is also when I realized, I didn't want to be a part of this anymore and I started to explore my options. Throughout the next four years I went through many aborted starts and stops to find an adequate alternative OS to Windows. Most of this was dealing with various Linux distributions, but a brief stint with Mac OS was also unsatisfying.
Now, I have been Microsoft free on my personal and work computer for one year. Not all of that year has been rosy, but none of it has been worse than a typical year with Windows. Mandrake wasn't very fast and Debian wasn't getting updates to Sid quickly enough for me. Gentoo came along and I've been incredibly happy ever since. My desktop has never been so snappy, stability so high, or the appearance of the gui so slick. I can do all my job tasks from this machine or by remotely connecting to a server.
In my work environment, their are two things which keep a large portion of my users from switching to Linux. One is a techinical problem dealing with SSH and Framemaker on Solaris, but I believe that will be worked out soon. The second is the fact that we receive book submissions from authors in Word format. Not all the "powers that be" at our company support the idea of switching to Linux and therefore it is a requirement of users to be able to handle these Word documents as Word documents and not have them converted to another format (such as OpenOffice.org or Framemaker). Trust me, this conversion is a time consuming process that takes one person several hours to two days to be done correctly. The conversion has to be done at some point, the "political football" is about when it will be done.
Thankfully, half our users are Microsoft Office free and they may be able to make a switch once the SSH problem is worked out. Of course, they should be easy anyway because they are xterm users connecting to a Sun box. The question about them is whether to keep them as is, or have the xterms boot from a Linux server, or give them a PC running Linux. I'm in favor of the middle option since i favor thin clients.
To sum up, nothing stopped me from making the switch to Linux. I choose not use anything that requires Windows. That includes games, personal finance software, and Lord of the Rings trailers that are only in Quicktime.
At work, lack of authority over the technical makeup of the company and inablity to change a work process prevents a switch to Linux.
My name is Erore and I'm a Windows System Administrator for the company that makes the animal books you all love so much.
At work I, as are most people I would imagine, am forced to use a desktop with a Microsoft operating system, and migrate between workstations of varying OSs in order to perform certain tasks. Right now I am typing this from Windows 98, behind me about 10 paces is a Mac dual G4 with Mac OS X 10.2 for testing and graphics. Right next to that is a Novell 6 server, which sits about a foot from a Windows 2000 server. It's just the way it is - I bet alot of people find themselves in this position.
But make no mistake, I am a Linux zealot. I only use all of this other mess because I have too. ;)
Hello all,
... ).
I use XP for two reasons.
1. Work. The company I work for sells a web-enabled hardware + software package that only runs in Windows. ( Mac in the future, maybe ). I need XP to test.
2. Games. ( Quake, Unreal, Serious Sam, Ghost Recon etc
For all my development work I run FreeBSD 4.6.2 on my Dell Latitue. I write code for the website that the imbedded web brower can access. The site runs Apache with mod_perl and a mysql backend. All webservers and the databse server are running various version of FreeBSD.
games mostly, I mean really that's the only reason I keep windows around at home at all. It's getting better, UT2K3 was playable on linux out of the box, but it's going to be a while before all games are ready out of the box for linux. It's all about market share and whether or not it's worth it for companies to spend resources on making games for linux.
I just don't give a shit
At work, I've got WindowsXP. Work has a nice fast gigabit connection, so that's where I do the majority of my browsing. That answers that until I switch jobs.
At home I've got a Windows 98 machine that I do my video editing and burning on. VirtualDub is the most powerful free video processor I've found, and it's a Windows app. That, and all my games are for Windows too. In short, I've got apps that I know how to use on Windows, hateful as that may be.
I've considered upgrading to Win2K (XP, like cops and vampires, will not enter my home unless explicitly invited), but I still stick Win98 for a simple reason: Both products break, but I'm more familiar with *how* Win98 breaks. That beast, I know how to fix in a heartbeat. Other Win versions, I have to learn new tricks. It's not worth the trouble.
My wife put Win2K on her home machine, and now the oldie-but-goodie games (like Dungeon Keeper) that she loves are acting strangely. Win2K only seems to like new things. Bah.
That's the same reason I've avoided putting Linux on my home boxes (though I do have one machine running Freesco for home internet and it ROCKS... anyway...). I know how to fix Win98.
I've experimented with Mandrake and RedHat, but the problem is that I've found them to be *too* flexible. There are so many ways to configure the system to do something (and each version seems to have it's own special method and ignores - or improperly takes into account - the others), that when something doesn't behave the way I expected it to, I don't know where to start looking. Do I use the GUI tool, or try to edit config files by hand? Which files would be affected if I did? What runlevel am I supposed to look at?
I know the depths of the Win98 maze backward and forward. It ain't perfect, but it gets me there. Linux, however, leaves me feeling completely in the dark. I'm too busy to put my computing habits on indefinite hiatus until figure it all out.
I'm considering buying an iBook in the near future, and perhaps I'll put VirtualPC on it and experiment with a Linux variant that way without endangering the extant OS. I just can't bear the idea of stripping everything down that I've spent so long building up and having to start from scratch again.
And yes, I've RTFM. Thanks so much.
GMFTatsujin
One just has to purchase hardware prudently, to avoid hard-wired sharing or IRQs, WinPeripherals, etc...
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
I got my PC this year with XP Home Edition pre-installed - whilst the OS itself was stable, I soon found that about half my PC games (yes, originals !) did not work in Windows XP (and, yes, some of them, like TOCA 2, even claimed they worked in XP on the sleeve, but didn't in reality).
Solution: I downgraded via a horrendously painful journey to Windows 98 SE (how I actually got that onto the machine instead of XP is almost worth a Slashdot article in its own right - the Win 98 SE install process is a total disgrace). Guess what - all my games now work on Windows 98 SE.
Of course, I did some re-partitioning while I was at it and now have two Red Hat releases and the latest Mandrake on the machine - my primary OS is currently Red Hat...I only boot into Windows to do the one thing it's actually good at...playing games of course.
As I am freelance developer I have to target my customers systems. For most cases this means: *nix for webapps and windows or mac for desktop apps.
;-)
Personally I like osx for the look and feel, windows for the games and *nix because I like systems I understand.
I run a dual boot of Red Hat 7.2 and Windows XP. I use Windows the majority of the time. Reasons for this include:
1)I haven't been able to get my printer to work with Red Hat
2)Games, particularily Counter Strike
3)I know Windows much better
4)I use Dreamweaver, Photoshop and some other software titles that aren't made for Linux
Someday I will check out WINE or VMWare and see if those will effectively run the Windows software titles that I rely on. I have also considered getting a Macintosh. The biggest reasons for not doing this is the lack of games, the lack of cracks & pirated software and price. I mostly only boot into Linux to play around with it and try to learn more, and when I am working on a programming project.
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
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It came with my laptop, which I use as my main machine. Mandrake, RedHat, Slackware, and SuSE wouldn't run on the thing. Neither would OpenBSD and NetBSD. Of course, being a FreeBSD fan I stuck FreeBSD on there, and it worked like a charm, except for my wireless card. However, I didn't feel like giving up XP completely. Over a long period of time, say, a week, I realized one OS wasn't getting much use, so I nuked that FreeBSD partition and XP became my only desktop OS.
The most recent time I've moved from Linux to Win2k was because Linux didn't support my firewire drives (except in alpha stage drivers) or my ATI All-in-Wonder video tuner. Those are both probably solved by now, so the reason I haven't switched back is basically laziness (I'd have to format drives, convert my outlook folders, move stuff around, etc) and fear (that someone else is going to not be supported, as is almost always the case).
I have made the switch to mozilla for the most part, though citibank doesn't seem to like it so I usually use IE.
Windows 98SE, capped at 512MB of ram for games. Since I already am stuck using Windows for games, I use Zmud (for text games), Opera (I know it's available for Linux), and Winamp. Everything else is either taken care of by my linux server (mail, ftp/sftp, ssh, dns) or in support of the Windows machine.
Oops, I use Nero, too. No, I don't share my ripped CDs.
First, some background.
... for me, for now.
I started using Linux as a development environment (as a hobbyist in highschool, and as a CS student when I was working on my B.Sc) around 1996. I was 16 and really excited about having a UNIX OS on my PC. I'm still very excited about Linux. But as a development environment, I develop in Windows 2000/XP pretty much 95% of the time excepting when I have to test/debug code on a UNIX platform.
I have XEmacs installed in Windows as a native app. I use Cygwin when I need a UNIX shell. XFree86(cygwin), Exceed and/or any other commercial/free X server generally work just fine. And I use MSVC++ for debugging - this is the main reason why I use Windows. I have not seen any UNIX debugger that comes close to MS's debugger (no, not even gdb, ddd or workshop).
As a desktop user, Windows has provided me with 99% uptime (and that missing 1% is for software upgrades requiring reboot, not crashes). I simply can't use the stability argument anymore.
I'm confident that Linux will kick ass on the desktop in the future. But if the Linux desktop is to entice developer desktops as well, a "killer app" debugger is needed. Unfortunately this is a huge undertaking. On top of this, UNIX developers might scoff at fancy GUI debuggers, just like I scoff at WYSIWYG word processors since I use LaTeX. But clearly this is not productive.
So, unfortunately, I have to disagree that Linux (or UNIX in general) is the ideal development environment
Just my $0.02!!!
Actually, I _am_ running Linux but using VMware to run MS Project. I would really like to get rid of that but there don't seem to be any good (or even barely functional) replacements.
For me, it's applications and hardware support:
Quicken
GPS and Mapping Software
DV Editing
Particular Scanners, Digital Camera Memory Card Readers, DV Editing
If this stuff doesn't get 1) supported, 2) stable under Linux, I won't make the move.
I use Linux at home, but at work they gave me a windows machine. We're mostly an AS400 shop and I guess the client access tools for the as400 are better on Windows. If anyone knows differently, please tell me and I'll try to convince someone to let me change.
At least a bit of one anyway. I use Linux almost exclusively at home (and luckily at work too). I only use Windows a few times a year, primarily for doing my tax return as there is still no Linux based package that even comes close to the functionality of TurboTax.
I have been using "alternative" operating systems for around eight or nine years now, starting with OS/2, and then moving to Linux 5 years ago when OS/2 seemed to be dying.
After all that time, I have to admit, it is much easier to complain about Microsoft than to actually use the alternatives on a day-to-day basis. I have managed to do it, but it takes a little bit of a pioneering spirit. It is much easier now, but five years ago, StarOffice (version 4 I believe) was a piece of crap, and programs like AbiWord, Gnumeric, KOffice, GIMP, Mozilla, Blender, KDE, GNOME (and many others too numerous to mention) were either non-existant or just in their infancy. There was a long period of time where I used LyX and LaTeX for word processing and all everyone else could say was: "Why?". The bottom line is that even today, it is still easier and more turnkey to use Windows.
There are also still many times when it takes more work to get some piece of hardware working in Linux than in Windows. You still can't go to the computer store to buy new hardware without a binder full of Linux hardware compatability lists.
I have tried to get some of my other family members to use Linux, and I have been having more success recently, but only after a lot of the more recent software has become available. My 13 year old son is now a Linux advocate but he still has to use Windows for 90% of his games, and most of his friends (even the technically oriented ones) still use windows.
The good news is that things are changing slowly. I can now do nearly everything I need to in Linux and I only feel like a "pioneer" 50% of the time. With flagship Linux companies like Red Hat now concentrating on the desktop, hopefully things will accelerate further.
First of all I know its been said before but no good gamer can really use a OS other then windows. I wish it was otherwise but thats pretty much how it is. Second, I just don't know where to start. I've thought about loading Linux or something up on my second PC but where to begin just baffels me. Whats a good version to learn with? Whats easy to install? What is the most stable? Many questions arise.
It's about games, and how much I know about Windows. I've been using 98 for years, and I know those ugly little things inside and out. Plus the software. I still can't get my palm to hotsync on Linux, and Gnutella, in my experience, never gets me the stuff I'm looking for.
/etc to /home to /usr to /opt to /misc whenever I want to find a config file.
Another thing I like is how easy it is to install software. Apache on linux totally confused me, although I did get the Mandrake-supplied version (1.3.26) working, I had big trouble finding things. It'd be so nice if I didn't have to jump from
Now, at one point, when 98 crumpled itself into a little ball and spontaneusly combusted (clearer version: crashed every 2 hours), I replaced it with Mandrake 9.0, and it turned me off Linux for weeks. It was so slow, I once tried to start OpenOffice, it took about 10 minutes before I just killed the process. It also took about 10 minutes to boot up.
However, I've been experimenting with Knoppix, it's so great because if I screw something up, I just reboot. It's all I've used at all on my laptop (which is a P1 133MHz with 48 megs of RAM) recently, and I've been playing with it on my desktop too.
Apps like Flash. [No, WINE does not work.]
Plus the simple lack of time to pick up deep Linux chops, because it is still not a breeze to install.
Knoppix is almost there. As soon as they get the bugs out of hdinstall, three of my boxes will dual boot.
Linux *almost* installs as easily as Win now. That's all I've been waiting for. Just haven't had time to deal with the usual driver hell people go through. I expect a lot of people are held back by that. Lot of us have other projects taking up our time, and we learned how to make Win liveably stable years ago. [Hint: don't run IE, Outlook, or Eudora, and notice you get through the day without crashing.]
At least photoshop has a good alternative,
unlike a lot of other applications.
About a week ago I switched from Win2000 to Redhat because I want to learn a bit about server admin. Although I had intended to do it for ages, there had never been a truly compelling, black-and-white, discrete reason to 'take the plunge'. I'd literally thought about if for years but put it off because I didn't want to deal with the hassle -- the incumbant OS was not great, but it got the job done and *I knew how to use it*.
Now what do I think after switching? Well, it's tough to have to learn a whole new world of computing. I can no longer just click on software install programs and have them appear in my start menu. Hell, I still don't know how to run half the stuff that I think I've already installed. I can't view some webpages, and I don't have a clue how to network my work PC (microsoft) with my home desktop (linux).
I think if most people were bred on Linux, it'd be a no-brainer. But there are way too many dumb people like myself that are okay to exist in the comfort zone of the status quo, because they know that stuff will work.
just my two cents....
This is a MS ploy to get you to admit flaws in Linux and they're going to use it in their advertising. What have we done!!!!?!?!?!?!!??!
Anyway, I'm on windows because I still live with my mom. She yells at me whenever there is any computer problem or she doesn't understand something. It would be too difficult to get her to use Linux.
I had a hard time getting her off of AOL, although she feels the change made her understand computers better.
I'd partion but I got an 8GB hard drive and don't want to bother. When I move out I think I'll build my own computer and partition the hard drive. I'll be able to monkey with the computer more when my mom doesn't need to use it.
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I actually use a Mac with Virtual PC running WIndows, and I frequently evangelize the Mac/Open Source and dismiss and deride Microsoft and Windows, so I'd say I'm a perfect person to be asked to justify my behavior.
Worse--although I do in fact have OS X on my machine, I don't use it. What is the real reason most people use WIndoze?
Habit. Habit and Familiarity.
Let's be honest. Unless you're work for an oil drilling company like the man mentioned above, odds are you can find a piece of software for the *nix platform (especially if you include OS X). As many people above have pointed out, plenty of alternatives to favorites exist, and many games have been ported over to *Nix platforms.
However, people use their computers as efficient tools. I don't bother even looking at the toolbar when I click on a button, or glance more than 2 seconds at a menu, or pause before entering a key combination. They have all become automatic.
However, were I to switch to another OS, I would have to learn its nuances, and that would take time that I'm not so interested in spending. Even though I'm eager to use a command-driven interface, I find it frustrating constantly having to "learn" how to do things which I easily do in Mac OS 9, and have been doing for over 10 years now.
The reason I haven't switched over to OS X? Believe it or not, there's only one reason: that stupid Open File dialog. I can't grok it, I can't figure it out, and worst of all I can't just type in the first few letters of the file I want in the folder and have it be selected, as has been the case since Mac OS 6.x (back when it was just called "System 6").
I think one of the problems, in fact, is that so many Slashdot users are power users -- dedicated gamers, programmers, coders, designers, developers-- who have become accustomed to using their computers as an extension of themselves. For most everyday users, the biggest difference between a Windows machine, a OS X machine, and a machine running a GUI Linux would be the color of the windows and icons. They don't try to juice their programs as much. After all, if the most complex action you perform as a user is hitting the back button on your browser, it can be any browser on any software platform. But if you're used to coding in a specific text editor, moving to another can be a painful experience.
Karma: Chevy Kavalierma.
Games and work are the only 2 things keeping me on Windows. At work we unfortunately a Microsoft only shop, so I use Win2k there. At home my main desktop is Win2k just so I can play games.
On the other hand, my laptop which is used only for consulting work and the ocasional DVD while on business trips runs nothing but Linux.
Once you go Slack, you never go Back.
In my spare time, I'm a multimedia designer. To be honest, most Windows applications blow their Linux counterparts out of the water in this department (3D graphics, professional audio, etc.). Also, I installed and set up Linux while i was attending college. For the first few weeks, my enthusiasm was high, and I made time for the project. But a few weeks in, when I needed to print a paper for class, I found that I didnt want to spend 30 minutes or so locating and learning how to install the printer driver. It was just easier (and more sane, from my perspective) to jus boot back into Windows. As a desktop user with limited time, I had to ask myself, is there a practical reason for investing such a large amount of my time configuring this OS and bringing it up to speed with the one I've already got? The answer was ultimately, no.
I have both a windows box and two linux boxes. Why do I still have a windows box?
a) Work. Everything we do at work is Microsoft related, and if I happen to take any work home with me, I need a Windows box.
b) Games. I'm not a big gamer, but the few that I have don't work with linux, or wine for that matter.
c) my scanner doesn't work with linux.
d) some of the Open Source counter parts of windows applications, just arn't as good. examples, gAIM tends to not show buddies online where AIM does show them correctly, xmms often complains that the audio channel (or something like that) is been used and can't play a file, so I end up having to exit the app, and go back in to get it to work again. WinAmp doesn't have that problem.
My Linux boxes are used as 1) a firewall, and 2) on my 400mhz sony Viao, because any Windows OS just dogs on it. With Debian and Blackbox that thing flies.
--
Does anyone remember
Next is Photoshop, which I use to adjust imperfect images. I tried the gimp, so please don't even mention it. It's not in the same class. What do I use PS for, specifically? Adjusting color and brightness of images, mostly. Even ThumbsPlus, which has these functions, isn't as good as Photoshop.
I used to watch TV on my Windows PC, but since I got TiVo, I never do that anymore.
I believe Quicken could be replaced with GNU Cash, but since I'm stuck on Windows for other stuff I've never tried it. I don't use the bill pay features of Quicken, since my bank (E*Trade Bank) doesn't support them.
The reason I stick with XP is that (a) it's consistently laid-out. The configuration and use of one application is nearly identical to the next. This is not so with Linux, where I have to scroll through giant man pages if they're there (and Google till dawn if not) to figure out how to use something. Or configure it. Or compile and install it. (b) Hardware. About a third of my hardware doesn't work at all in Linux (yet) and much of it I had to mess with it for hours before it would work. Sometimes, it would theoretically work, but I could never make it work in my case. (c) Software. This is a +/- thing. On the one hand there are tons of incredible, wonderful GPL software out there for Linux. I couldn't live without Emacs, for example. But quite often those things are available for Windows too (Emacs being a good example, along with Apache, OpenOffice, etc.) And, of course, there are the killer apps that are Windows only, like Word(the latest version has been incredibly stable for me, and otherwise amazing) and Photoshop. And don't even think about an easy to use video editor like Ulead's Video Studio on Linux. Or nice multi-track audio like Sonar. The list goes on. I guess what i'm trying to say is that, while I love Linux and will continue to dual boot for times when it's appropriate (school; i'm a CS major) Windows quite simply doesn't waste my time like Linux does. And note that Linux has many advantages I didn't cover, because that would be off topic. As soon as Linux is easy, or i become such an expert that it's easy for me, i'll surely switch for good.
2) At home: piracy of windows apps is so rampant that it's not restricted to geeks anymore. People today think they shouldn't have to pay for software they use at home. If it weren't so ridiculously easy to get pirated software, particularly windows itself and office, maybe people would have a reason to switch to free software. Furthermore, windows 2000/xp is pretty damned stable, so what do typical lusers gain from switching now, if they aren't saving money, and don't feel bad about piracy? They get more configuration work, less hardware compatibility (can you say 802.11a?), fewer games. Hardly a great deal.
As for myself, I run Gentoo, 2000 Server, and XP Pro for various purposes. Linux is great for doing exactly what you want, and no more -- as long as what you want is supported. But if you just want something simple to work without wasting your life away configuring it... like a do-it-yourself Cable/DSL router, or a web and email system for the wife... Windows 2000/XP is not a bad option. Just like programming languages, no OS is the best for everything, despite personal preferences.
ArcGIS baby. ESRI (www.esri.com) has pretty much shifted their entire line of industry-standard GIS software to Windows, ditching UNIX. The same seems true of most high-end remote sensing/image analysis software. Since that's my bread-and-butter, I've got to use XP. Otherwise, I'd use MacOS X, baby!
Honestly? I have too much to do to learn Linux and go through installing it. I have like 75 wierd apps that I use, and I don't want to try and figure out if they are compatible or not. Its hard enough when M$ upgrades Win and I have to figure out what doesn't work anymore.. So in my case, Win works for what I need, so why mess with it?
Counter strike and Rhino3D keep me dual booting between windows and freebsd.
With the latests nvidia drivers though, I'm so close to running cs flawlessly under freebsd I can taste it, and I can run rhino3d although it is permformance leaves a lot wanting.
Both under wine of course. If I could get CS working tonight, I'd blow away my windows partition.... plus this is the only machine I own that does not run solely on an opensource os... and this includes 2 desktops, 1 laptop, and 4 servers...
so, Counter-Strike is my hook, but it's almost out. Even my gf is linux friendly.
People are used to it. And let's be honest here; for 99 percent of what people do with it, it suits their needs just fine. And although it isn't Mac-like in ease of use, in many ways, it's pretty close. It's got by far the largest selection of software available, from games to office suites. And thinks to IE's dominance (and most webmasters designing with it in mind), it works pretty well with the internet in most cases.
It has one standard install/unistall method. And though the various system features on Windows isn't aren't very powerful in the sense that 'nix people think of power, they're effective and easy to use. "Built In" apps, like Outlook Express, are fairly good products (we're talking look, "feel", and ease of use here, not security).
While Windows 95 was somewhat volitile, and ME was horrible, 98 is the standard, and it's fairly stable if not used as a server of some kind, at least by 9X standards. And Windows 2000/XP is a huge improvement in power and stability.
And the most important reason? It's OEM installed on virtually every intel-compatible PC. You can get Linux from some manufacturers, but it's tough. Or you could go deluxe and buy an Apple, but you pay a good deal more, and have less software to choose from, especially games. There's a kind of catch-22 going on. People are now used to Windows, so seeing that as demand, OEM's install windows.
MS does a good enough job of making likable software that common users are willing to overlook the security faux paus. As long as Windows is sold to OEMs cheaply, as long as lots of games are written for it, and as long as it gets easier to use, it'll be popular.
Which brings me to a point about Linux on the desktop. It's my feeling that people wont leave Windows for Linux if it's made to look more like Windows. They'll try Linux if it's different from Windows, and interesting. Not neccessarily difficult, but definitly different. You can make Linux (or at least the GUI) easier to use without neccessarily making it more Windows-like. THERE's where you'll find your converts.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Macromedia and Adobe would be doing the web developer community a great service by coming out with reliable solid versions of their software for Linux.
HTML and PHP scripting can be accomplished fine in Linux but many web developers can't do their jobs without being able to run Macromedia's software to author Flash.
Here! Here! I'm itching for a gui IDE for PHP and MySQL for linux. I've played with MM's product and said silently to myself...if only it was on linux...and OS!
I use windows to write software compatible with ... and to surf ... and quite simply the hassle of using gcc under windows is a lot less than the hassle of getting a modem and ISP set up under linux.
the compiler I use at work
MS windows at work beacuse it's required, Mandrake 8.1 at home for everything except games, Windows for the games I can't live without. Tried Winex, it's not quite good enough yet to allow me to ditch Windows. Maybe next year...
At home we've got 2 Linux boxes, a Mac G4, two Mac laptops (three when my daughter is home from college), and a Windows box. I use the Linux box for development, but prefer the TiBook for surfing. My wife uses the G4 for everything, and my younger daughter prefers the Windows box (mostly because with Mac OS X and Linux, she can't install all the crapware she downloads off the net). We *all* read our email and Usenet by sshing into the Linux server. The other night the three of us were sitting around using AOL Instant Messanger to talk to the daughter at college - using AIM, iChat and gaim.
The problem is that there are some really badly designed web sites out there, and clueless web managers who, when you tell them their site doesn't work for you, say "well, it works for Internet Explorer 5.5, so you'd better upgrade".
That sort of thing forces you to use Windows more often than you'd like to. We're just in the process of switching banks because our old one's web site was like that.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Hello. I use Linux for my fileserver, backup server, email server, webserver, etc. I love using Linux for many tasks, but for the home computer, we use Windows 2000 Professional. This is for the childrens games, general surfing, other users in the home. Mainly, it is just the fact that I have no patience to teach anyone a new OS. Most people that come over are experienced with the Microsoft interface, and I really do not care if the world pushes to Linux or not.
I used to be a big fan of Apple products. I had an Apple ][e, a Color Classic. I would use Mac for many things that I do for my business and home applications, but they are just too damn expensive. And personally, I do not believe they are really that great. If I were, let's say, a graphic designer, I would have a different opinion.
If I was to go out and spend as much money as I would on a Macintosh, I would instead invest the cash into a Sun Blade with a i386 emulator card. For the cash, and for what you get, it is a much better investment.
That's my view, and I hope it answers your question.
DISCLAIMER:
I don't believe what I write, and neither should you.
The problem is that Microsoft Office for the most part is an awesome product, particularly Word, Outlook, and Excel. IE is a kickass browser. Other posters have made good points about being stuck with Windows at work, and games obviously play an important role.
I got Bellsouth DSL working fine on my Linux router. I specifically requested the external ethernet modem (connect to pc via NIC) and was a cinch to setup on the Linux box. On Windows (i had to verify that the DSL indeed worked) I had to reboot several times as the BEllsouth CD installed quite a bit of crapware.
$cat
They just don't have the compatability on Linux. The closest thing I know of that's gpl is GIMP. It's a start but it's not enough. I would love to switch because the whole concept behind the Open Source movement is something I'd like to support, but I can't. At least not yet.
As for MacOS, some designers swear by it. But I resent that MacOS hides all the nitty-gritty tweaks from the users. Also, macs cost way more for what you get and the systems always seem to become unstable once the next version of MacOS comes out (at least that's how it was back when I owned a 6100). This may have changed with OS X, but the jury is still out. (besides I need a two button mouse,dammitt!)
I need compatibility with any file format a client can give me. And Windows is the way to go for that. I know they are the evil empire, but they give me compatibility with 90% of the software and users out there.
Long story short: I will go where the software developers camp. And right now that's Windows.
Plus I need my games. =)
My experience with Linux, while relatively brief, deterred me from future use through a simple lack of complete functionality. I don't even dual boot anymore, but head straight to Win2k. I respect all the efforts put into the open source scene as a whole, but I found it difficult to get excited when, say, the new xfree drivers finally supported my Geforce video card whereas Windows had already had perfectly operational drivers for quite some time. Last I checked, I can't send files and check away messages at the same time under Gaim. Xine was cool when it worked. Creative Labs's open source SBLive drivers worked, but not well. Granted all of these problems have probably been improved since, I still can't justify waiting longer for a less-than-adequate program or driver for the newest application or hardware. In the spirit of a competitive market, if she has it and you don't, I go to her.
i dual boot, but win2k's my primary OS.
the number 1 reason... is that i cant find the cracks to the annoying flexlm (flexkm?) licenses to all the CAD software for linux versions.
windows to me is also free because i dont buy MS products. my OS is pirated, acrobat is pirated, office is pirated, trillian-pro is pirated, norton is pirated...etc, etc. it's been really stable for me. almost never crashes.
there's no kazaa-lite for linux yet, but now that i realise it's easier to download full album mp3s off irc, it doesnt really matter anymore i guess.
my blog
It is very difficult to apply for a job without having a Microsoft Word copy of your CV. Plus there are millions of other times when people expect Word of Excel.
As far as the Web is concerned, I keep my copy of Mozilla handy and I quite like it, but once in a while I find a website that doesn't work without IE running on Windows, so I have to have IE around.
Using non-MS tools usually means having a copy of both the MS and non-MS tools around, for these sorts of reasons. And duplication like this often just isn't worth the hassle.
And for all of you hardcore linux jockeys out there, don't give me that crap about just using emacs and BibTeX to manage/search a large bibliography! That is a totally unacceptable compromise. Have you ever tried to do serious research work using that setup? Didn't think so.
to some here, i am the lowest form of scum. i am a windows vb programmer. that makes me 1. evil and 2. stupid. evil because i support microsoft. stupid because, as we all know, vb is a horrible language, right? ;-P
you know what? you may be right, but you don't pay my paycheck. i have to eat and pay rent, you know? there's a market for vb programmers. i fill a market, shrinking or not, the market exists. i go to work and get a paycheck. end of story.
i really think i do cool stuff. i'm working with metrics my company is pushing as an industry standard. i crunch data into purty colors using (shake in horror now) microsoft office web component chart objects. it's easy and straightforward. i'm happy and content. doesn't mean i'm a monkey in a suit. i still deal with thorny programming problems. but, of course, i live a rodney dangerfield existence: "i get no respect." you go on with your bad selves and snicker at me. doesn't change a damn thing. smug attitudes are just mental masturbation that makes you feel better about yourself at the expense of winning any converts. and winning converts is the whole issue here.
my boss says "linux is an unproven platform. maybe in five years." before you all reply to his statement with derision and scorn, just remember that it does no good to chastise people like my boss, as you only further the image of the linux geek as an ivory tower, scornful, holier-than-thou type that wins no converts and drives average joe blow users away. instead, take his words at their face value. if you think his words have no truth, then work on dispelling the rumors and innuendo in the press that foster this attitude amongst your average corporate middle management types. don't like dealing with dilbertesque management types. fine! not a problem! don't! remember what the whole issue is here again in this story?
as far as home use, the scene is currently fragmented. "real" geeks use linux and do "real" computer science. the rest of us are just hobbyists and morons, apparently. until, if, and when linux becomes as accessible to average joe blow "how do you click a mouse?" types, windows will be around forever. if you want to accelerate the acceptance of linux and do away with microsoft, the next time a computer user says something mindblowingly stupid to you, you will not snicker and scoff and say RTFM, you will smile and reply helpfully.
and until the linux world makes a serious, concerted effort to make the linux gui and work environment and installation process as braindead as windows, yes, i said braindead, linux will not expand out of it's "i'm an ubergeek" niche. linux will seriosuly dent microsoft when someone can use linux completely, satisfactorially, on a daily basis, in all aspects of use and NEVER HAVE TO TOUCH A COMMAND LINE INTERFACE FOR A SECOND. or even know one exists!
remember, the world of morons does not cater to your computer science genius. YOU cater to and serve computer using morons. accept that or be happy with linux being relegated to the smaller, rarefied world of high-end computing.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The only thing holding me back is a good text editor. I haven't been able to find one (haven't had time... I know bad excuse). I personally like to use Ultraedit. The only 2 features I really need are:
1. Hex conversion. (all or part of a file)
2. Hex replace. (all or part of a file also)
If anyone can point me to a good editor, I will probably make the switch.
btw.
I am not very far up on the IT ladder (quite low, mostly doing extraction of data), but have been given permission to run linux on my box, but just can't find the right editor to do my job at the pace I am currently able to achieve. I do a lot of busy work, so a good editor makes all the differnce.
-thanks
I've spent over 48 hours trying to get slackware to work. Finally I got my monitor and X and all that crap to work. Only with KDE, which some say makes me lame, but whatever. It's at about 124000000X1233402303000 resolution and I can't see shlt. I have to use a freaking manifying glass to do anything. I still have no sound, despite trying 6 sound cards, 3 of them vanilla sound blasters. I can't get the damn modem to work. Other than that, I really like it. I'm back on windows, but I'm going to try Mandrake next. I will say that on windows I use open office, mozilla, and other gnu tools as often as I can. Also, I have a QNX machine and a 3com Audrey (running QNX) and I love those to death. My only problem with QNX is that it won't play sound either, but the audrey does. Those sound cards all work in windoze.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
port protools, port logic, port cooleditpro.......and a functional equivalent of the myriad of other audio tools I use--and I'd be there in a split second. Windows has the audio support. linux doesn't.
not to mention the lackluster performance of the audio subsystems, and horrible latency......even if its just a 10ms latency, thats too much.....give me ASIO support, and programs to use it with....I'll be there in a heart beat...
excuse the AC, I'm too lazy to reg....
-Dan Youth
http://mp3.com/aneurysmX
The fact that "games" seem to be the main reason people for people here speaks volumes for how much of a "Toy" windows truly is. :p
Playing games and surfing the web takes up most of my non-work computer time, and games just work under Windows (no messing around with WineX), and IE is still the most supported (Opera and Phoenix might be just as fast now) browser in the land.
When stuff just *works*, I'm happy.
I've got a licensed MP3 encoder purchased from Fraunhofer directly, which makes files with a MUCH better quality than any of the "freeware" encoders.
It does *not* run under Wine. Sigh.
I am *not* going to spend an extra $150 to get their command-line Linux version.
It could be nice to have an "Escaping from Windows " site, with a list of the most popular Windows games and apps, and how well they run in emulators, or interact with open source replacements.
I play computer games.
Wine is great, but its simply not there yet.
professionaly, I'm a web developer. I spend as much time in photoshop/fireworks/flash as I do in CFML, PHP and (X)HTML/CSS...
When Macromedia ports its development suite over to a linux distro, I will switch in a heartbeat.
At home I run win2k SP3,
at work I run win2k SP3.
I have 1 Linux Server for personal webspace
and 1 WIN2k Server box for work development.
...I have no choice but to run it. I live on the East Coast, but I work for a company on the West Coast. They call me all day long and, until 8pm, I'm never free to boot into FreeBSD (my OS of choice). I have to be ready to pop open Excel at any moment to address some client question or comment. OpenOffice still doesn't do Excel well enough, and that's what everyone in the business world uses. If I need FreeBSD for any reason, I just ssh over to my server and do what needs to me done.
By the time 8pm roles around, I am in the mood to play games and, since the NWN Linux client isn't out yet, I just stay in Windows.
I run Windows on 3 desktop machines at home that my family uses, including me. They are all the same OS so support is easier for me. And the choice of OS is based on the applications we need to use. My daughter uses AOL, my wife needs Office compatibility with work, and I use my computer for Quicken and multimedia applications. Linux will not run the applications for which we use our computers.
Now, the NAT box on my home network is Debian stable, cuz its the best tool for the job and rock solid. And at work I use Linux because it lets me run the tools I need to use to do my job, where Windows does not.
Technology for the sake of technology is for fanatics. The rest of us chose software based on its ability to help us meet specific needs.
i can't afford a mac, but i have to use photoshop (cos i am a part time webdesigner) and theGimp is the worst tool i ever used (i REALLY gave it a chance, but it just was crap).
so, that's keeping me to windows
There's nothing keeping me on Windows. I switched to Linux way back in 1997 and never looked back. I don't need to list the apps that make Linux a useful operating system -- you've heard the list a thousand times.
The reason you can avoind Windows nowadays is because Microsoft lost the browser war. Yes, you heard me correctly: they lost. Microsoft didn't like the idea of applications shifting from Windows to the web. Remember when you needed special Windows apps for everything? You installed one to send messages to someone's pager, another one to do your banking, another one to track your FedEx shipments, etc. Microsoft wanted to keep it that way, but those pesky Netscape people kept pushing this idea of applications executing on a server while you viewed them in a browser. So they went into War Mode on the browser front. All they managed to accomplish was to destroy Netscape's ability to make money selling browsers. But guess what? Nearly all information-access apps moved to the Web anyway. And those apps are as easily accessed from a Linux or Mac desktop as they are from a Windows desktop. Microsoft failed to stop the migration of apps to the web. Say it with me, folks: Microsoft failed. Doesn't that sound good? It's true. Marc Andreesen's vision of web-enabled applications making the OS irrelevant has become a reality, and that's one of the things that has enabled folks like me to ditch Windows without ever missing it.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
One reason I don't switch at home is that the computer is used by the family. Its too difficult to find easy to install applications. The last thing I have time to spend time on as a family man is installing software. With WinXp if you are using software from Norton or some other trusted source then its fast, safe, and easy. So I am willing to pay $50 for
This is it! This is my one chance to vent about how much I hate Linux and why I love Microsoft! ...
...
And I have writer's block. Irony, thy name is
Damn I'm bad at this ^^;;
[o]_O
I switched over to Linux while I was in college. Technically it was dual boot, but I did most of my work as well as internet stuff in Linux. It worked best for my situation (ethernet to the campus LAN, senior projects on shared unix servers, etc.), and it also acted as a hobby (read: procrastination aide ;)
I tried using Linux after I got out, but there were two problems:
1) It no longer fit my needs as well (mostly games and dialup internet, two things it didn't do well at the time)
2) Now that I sit in front of a computer for 40 hours a week, I'm much less inclined to spend time fiddling with one at home. Linux is easier to configure now, but it still needs some tinkering to get the most out of it.
Currently my home system runs Win98se, with no plans to change. All I really do with it is surf and play games, so it doesn't matter how crappy the OS is. Fortunately, our eng. dept. at work has recently gotten out from under the IT-based M$ mandate, so we've all got RedHat running on our workstations. Now I'm trying to relearn all those Uber-c00l unix commands...
I'm not a Windows basher. I bash 'em all. Windows has issues, so does the Mac OS pre-X, and 10.0, 10.1, I'm not a fan of 10.2 either and Mac charged full price for the upgrade from 10.0. I like Linux in concept but got really annoyed by libc versioning issues and other annoyances that other OSes simply take care of. And while I'm a technologist and developer, I don't want to have to keep an encyclopedic knowledge of the low level bits of the OS just to configure a mail server, for example.
A lot of this is historical. I started with the Commodore PET, to the 64, CP/M, DOS, I made money programming for the HP 95/100/200LX, did "object-oriented assembly" for Geos, loved writing for OS/2, and play with a Palm these days. Every OS has issues. Which brings us back to the question... why do I primarily run Windows?
It's where the shallow learning curve to do "enough" is, where the rest of the family is, and where all the money is. I have to sell my work, prostitute myself for a dollar. There are a lot more opportunities to get that dollar on the Windows platform. Sure, Linux is the purer OS, the more reliable, but what I need is customers who will pay actual money... and they run Windows. So I do too.
Hey, I may be easy, but don't call me "cheap". Call me "economical".
>Asian Language Support
Japanese, Chinese, Korean langauge support is all there, by default. I only use Japanese on a regular basis, but it works great.
>namely certain CD-R software
Built into MacOS X (and 3rd party products are also available).
> and file-sharing software
If you mean P2P, I must admit, LimeWire's the only choice on a Mac, but it's there. If you're talking about file transfer protocols in general, MacOS X supports FTP, AFP, and SMB.
---
Open Source Shirts
Because at work I have no choice, w2k pro is corporate standard.
I can install whatever OS I want on my machine, but I can't connect it to the network.
A non-networked OpenBSD machine in the corner looks quite sad.
I know, because I've got an old laptop with OBSD to give me comfort when the world is cruel.
At home my main desktop is windows(Me) because it allows me to bring work back home, and to telecommute the days I don't drag my ass to the office.
And to play Civ III, and F-15, and F22-ADF and Alpha Centauri.
There's Duron 1200 OpenBSD at slot 2 in my kvm-switch, which is used for all development and serious stuff.
There's three other OBSD boxen spread around, firewall, samba server, videoserver and various stuff.
But yes, my main desktop is windows.
I might move slot 2 to slot 1 in the switch, but not until I've bothered to compile the latest phoenix on the BSD can.
Executive Pope (small) Kallisti Engineering
For me, I would dual boot and only use Windows for games, if the hardware support was as good and easy as it is with Windows. Here are the things I would expect to be difficult/crappy/impossible with Linux: -PhotoRET (high quality) printing with my HP P1100 customized for media type (i.e. glossy photo paper) -access to CF/SmartMedia slots with my HP P1100 -access to the cheapo Memorex USB SD card reader -USB support for my APC UPS -Sony Clie' USB hot-sync base (probably possible, but a pain) -HP 5300 USB scanner (probably possible with SANE, but a pain) -DVD writer support, or any software to do video editing/DVD creation Plus, even with the hardware support, I would miss the nice HP printing application that lets me do any size prints and photo album pages.
I've been using Linux exclusively on my home machine, work machine, and laptop for nearly a year now. I've been using Linux at work for as many as 4 years. However, I have a crutch called Windows Terminal Server. The reason why is that I cannot get certain applications to work under WINE. For example: Oracle JInitiator. Oracle seems to express no interest in releasing a Linux version of this java derivitive plugin, so I'm held to a windows app. WINE does not properly execute this as of one of the latest releases.
I think what is comes down to is that WINE needs to provide a stable platform for most all windows apps whether they be business or play. When that day comes, our terminal server needs a good boot to the head.
I am MuchTall
Win2k at work is pretty much a given. Some of the internal Web sites require IE, and may or may not work with IE for Mac. We have one tool that requires IE on Windows; I'm sure it wouldn't work on Mac. I don't know if wine would work or not. I can't imagine the company deploying vmware on Linux (which still runs Windows) as an alternative to just running Windows.
At home, the reasons why I've been tempted to set up a Windows box are 1) support for cheap-ass hardware like a webcam I bought on sale, 2) apps like MySQLFront, 3) games like Counterstrike. So far, 1) I bought a different camera, and I'm hoping driver support for Linux and OSX improves, 2) I can use Microsoft's Remote Desktop client to connect to my friend's Windows box through our VPN, and run MySQLFront there, connecting back through the VPN to my SQL server, and 3) I'm just playing Warcraft III and a couple other games.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Because I need stuff like Adobe Illustrator, Quark XPress, Photoshope, Flash, Video and sound, etc. for work, and I can't affored a Mac.
Also Games.
Until Linux gets versions of all these programs, I will not switch. Also, they have to be these actual programs, not open source clones. I hate to sound like a whiner, but I have never used a clone that offers "interoperability" and "same file formats" that worked right. In my business, we live and die by the format, and close isn't good enough. I have to be able to work with the LATEST versions of AI, PSD, QXD, SWF, MOV, etc.
It *is* applications. I've yet to see good multimedia (especially multitrack audio and DV) apps for Linux. If there's a replacement for Acid Pro 3.0 and Macromedia Flash 5+ that will run on Linux, please, point me thataway.
-oZ
It only takes two clicks from apple's homepage to disprove you. Why don't you do something useful today and figure out which two.
It simply keeps running. You run an application, it works, install packages, play games, whatever, it still running, no funny blue screen, no exciting "and now what?", no funny 3 finger salute, no data corruption, no halt, no freeze, no crash.
With windows, in the other hand, you don't know for sure what will happen next, it will explode?, will corrupt all your data? what will be the next trojan/virus/worm in my computer? My wife will receive my letter for my lover?
More than this, is even funnier when you have critical data under windows, is like bungee jumping, adrenaline running in your blood, sleeping with an eye open, or, at least, being completely irresponsible for what will happen. It's great!
About a year ago I tried to switch, cold turkey.
But I couldn't it was to hard to switch.
I Lost My OS, and all my app's at the same time.
I was infuriating because I was trained on Windows, thus things that I could do in 2 minutes took 1 hour in Linux, it sucked, so I switched back.
any way I now Run A Dual Boot Usually in Win2k but I decided that to make the transition easier I need as common an Interface as I can get between the two, So if I find a mature App (OpenOffice, Mozilla, MySQL, Eclipse) which runs on both I use it in both environments. Instead of the Windows Equivalent
And it is so much easier to switch between the 2 now because I learnt the new applications in an environment I was familiar with.
My Main Problem now is There Are Several Apps, which I am finding it hard to replace.
Message Client (Compatible with MSN Messenger),
File Manager,
Task Manager,
A quick Launch Bar,
an Icon Editor,
a Graphics Editor,
a text editor....etc
I can Find an app to do these things in Windows or Linux but not both.
I don't think I will be ready to switch full time till I can cut this list in half.
Got any help?
--meh--
Granted I could have simply had a bad experience, but when I installed Redhat on my system that already had w98 and w2k redhat installed itself so that it pushed my w2k partition to a different partition number(?) so that when I went to boot w2k to boot loader was looking in the wrong place. You can try to blame this on how the MS partition mapper works, but I still think OS installers should be smart enough to not mess up my partitions for the most widely used OS out there. It's one thing if they ignore the other N linuxes that are used by .005% of the world, but the widest used OS is something different.
Additionally, after not using Redhat for about 7 months I tried to boot it up and it keep yelling at me about something to do with the windowing invironmens installed, (gnome?). Seems to me that my OS should still work if I haven't touched it in months.
The last part is that at the time there was no good way to book redhat from the windows bootloader OS list. I tried the strategies suggested but they simply never worked, I had to use a floppy anytime I wanted to use redhat.
I honestly would much rather use OSX than windows or *nix seperately.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Digital camera image processing has moved to the 16-bit realm. That's what's keeping me on Windows, although not at all exclusively.
There is Linux support for RAW image processing into 16-bit TIFs (Bayer interpolation from CCD data) for both Canon and Nikon DSLRs, however tools for subsequent processing and printing are lacking.I don't discount The Gimp, but its strictly 8-bit in all its glory. FilmGimp is beginning to bridge that gap. In fact, it's a credible tool for manipulating 16-bit TIFs. In addition, the ImageMagick package does provide a number of tools for 16-bit TIF processing as well.
Still, I can't get a cutting edge sharpening or noise reduction algorithm for 16-bit TIFs in Linux.
What's available in Windows? Well, more than Photoshop. All sorts of little specialty apps. As an example, here's a free, but not open source sharpening application that draws its algorithms from bleeding-edge medical diagnostics imaging software, with sophisticated edge sharpening and halo controls.
Not only does it output 16-bit images, but intermediate calculations are done in 32-bit for superlative accuracy!
Is ImageMagick evolving in this direction? I hope so.
And what's the future of printer support for 16-bit images?
I would like to use linux - I just don't think it's ready for primetime yet. Right now, it lacks the speed, and simplicity of windows. If there were a distro that was heavily trimmed, easy to install, and had fast performance - I'd switch. I know it's possible to do, I just can't spend hours trying to learn how. Not everyone is a poweruser, some just want something simple.
At home I still use Windows 98 because of my wife. I've shown her Linux, but she wants what is familiar (which for her is Windows or Mac 9). On Linux (which currently is Mandrake 8), she feels like I have to make excuses for why she can't get the expected results ("I'll have to configure that to do what you want", for example). What she would really like installed is Korean Windows. I have not spent much time trying to get Linux and Hangul working together so that she can compose and read email in Hangul, but what time I did spend wasn't fruitful. She can do both on Windows using IE. Plus she wants to use Photoshop and Illustrator and Flash. My PC is over 3 years old and when we upgrade, I'd really like to switch to Mac, but the cost is hard to justify (I'm not floating in discretionary income). I hate the thought of WinXP and don't want to go that route if I can avoid it. Maybe it's time to get a more current KDE or Gnome and try to train the wife again ;)
Do I need to say more?
It works for everything I need it to do and I don't have to nor do I give a rats arse how it does it.
No Compelling reason to switch.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
First off, let me say I dual-boot at home with Slackware and XP. XP is only used for games. Slackware w/ KDE works great for me.
1. Work
All Windows, All The Time. Until MS Outlook, Visual Studio.NET, and SQL Server Enterprise Manager are ported, I'm stuck.
2. Games
Yeah, I don't think this has to be explained. Run Battlefield 1942 under Wine? P'Shaw.
2. My Mother
Even as slick and produced as Mandrake and RedHat are for the new user, there are still various issues that the normal user just doesn't care or know about. The difference between KDE and GNOME? Yeah, try explaining that one -- and then try to explain why that is BETTER than Windows. Then reboot into Windows when you realize that you CAN'T. I applaud RedHat for their recent desktop-melding moves. Another issue is device support. Setting up a printer in Linux can still be a bit of a pain-in-the-ass, and the newest of the new devices are often not supported by Linux until much later (not the fault of Linux, mind you, but the manufacturers).
All of this said, I think that a Linux desktop is a good possibility for completely new / adventurous users. That's how Mac gained it's popularity in the early 80's. Plenty of complete newbies not accustomed to one particular GUI/OS paradigm.
So, as much as some of the Linux curmudgeons revile the movements of RedHat -- that is where the key to a large user base is.
thelocust[dot]org
Before the flames and monkey automatons hit, let me explain.
My fiancee and I invested in a nice computer. I thought she wouldn't be too interested in Linux, so we installed Windows XP on it. Also, she needed it for image editing and creation (Photoshop and Illustrator) for her college classes.
When she began using Linux in her OS class, she wanted it installed, too. Unfortunately, we used the entire drive for Windows XP (dumb, I know). But now, I'm too lazy to reinstall Windows AND install Linux, plus we have no time to do so, thus we looked for a repartitioning utility that handles NTFS.
Maybe I'm not looking hard enough (and maybe I don't want to fork the dough out for Partition Magic) but I've not been able to find one that even makes claims of recognizing NTFS partitions, much less resizing them.
(Hey, if you know of one, feel free to burn me, and then give me the URL!)
There's a 68.71% chance you're right.
mainly games and ease of use though... :(
example: on windows i can install oracle in about 25minutes and configure ldap etc very quickly... i've been trying to get both these things among others working on linux, and being fairly competent and reading the HOWTOs and readmes has helped, but after quite a few hours its still not working, and i've got no idea about what to do next
I'm using XP one my one system here at work and have RH 8.0 installed on my secondary system. It seems they're improving the UI but it would still be hard for new users. Lycoris LX is a distro I installed also, more for the home user. Wasn't bad but still, kinda tough to do the simple "windows" things. The GAME thing is a huge factor. X is pretty sad on slower machines too, especially RH 8.0 running KDE3. But the solution isn't to make it more Windows-like, that's for damn sure.
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
I haven't used or purchased MS products since 1993. At first I was an OS/2 user for awhile, then FreeBSD, and finally now Linux.
Openoffice gets me around most of my MS file format issues, however I still don't provide my resume in doc format. It's on the web which is plenty good enough.
I also won't work in environments that force me to use MS products. Maybe I'm just blessed out here in Lawrence, KS to work in an 99% Open Source shop.
Bill gets pissed when I fire up Linux.
ZoneAlarm server control
Unfortunately, most aspects of society revolve around Microsoft products to do business. The university I currently attend uses and publishes PowerPoint (tm) slides for lectures. CS 1321 includes labs that require us students to learn Excel. Linux, although used by the IT department to run vital network functions (web, email, etc), is not supported. Likewise at work, either the system admin refuses to allow such an hybrid LAN, or strongly discourages it (that is, the use of a non-Windows OS on his/her network).
.ppt files soley, but also export them to html format. I and the LUG I belong to will also try to make other suggestions along the same lines.
Last year, I was one of those people that read Slashdot using a Windows OS and IE, but advocated Linux while bashing Windows. I am now proud to be Windows free almost entirely (still have that Windows XP install on my laptop that I never boot into but still hang on to for those very rare occassions). This is in spite of my college's affinity for Microsoft. In fact, they offer "free" MSDN copies of major Microsoft products (XP, 2000 All, VS.Net, etc) to all CS students. For the Excel lab I used OpenOffice, which did the job very well. Soon, I am going to try to push professors to not publish
Sorry, I digress. My point is the world revolves around Microsoft because the rest of the world does, representing a positive feedback loop. Microsoft has even targeted schools of all levels so that people grow up with their products. An infrastructure based on Microsoft products has already been established and will be as impossible to destroy/rebuild as other infrastructures like highways/roads. Microsoft uses this to their advantage. Linux developers and Apple, on the other hand, try hard to make products that coexist with this existing Microsoft dominated infrastructure.
Those that use Microsoft don't want to do the extra work Linux/Mac users must do to do the same task. Ease of use for the products, weak/nonexistant virtues among users, requirement by jobs/school to use the products, etc are all factors that contribute to this unfortunate condition in question. Most people just do not realize why they should use anything else. Sad, yet true.
the only reason i use windows2000 is because its just what was "there". As a senior in HS, I was brought up in school using Apple IIs, then moved on to macs, and then Windows based machines due to the nnumber of applicatiosn avaliable, and It just stuck on.
I must admit im not a fan of microsoft (i mean, i only leagaly own one win95 license), but its what everyone uses and it makes life simplier all being on the same page
windows is familiar, and I'm lazy.
I am currently on Windows 98SE (IMO the best Windows so far) and I am on the edge of switching to Linux (Running from a bootloader already), so I could summarize my thoughts on the matter.
:)
First and foremost, Windows is sucky, but one can learn to live with it. I have been very responsible with my Windows and have been running the same installation for about two years now. I heave learnt to tweak the registry to my liking and some handy hotkeys. The operating system has become transparent already.
Then there's a practical issue of migrating my mail into Linux, I have extensice archive of mail in mu NS4 and occasionally it is interesting to go back in time. Perhaps it's possible, I have not investigated the issue yet.
With apps a long running problem with Linux was the lack of a Browser. Luckily this problem was solved with Mozilla -- a project I keep an eye on and consider one of the most important Open Source projects since Linux.
There are some things that also annoy me in Linux, first of all the lack of decent teaching material. All the information for beginners seems to be scattered across the Internet and the ones who already can "do" Linux don't need more than 'man' and occasional IRC question. Also I would like to have a decent desktop on Linux, this is a work in progress, but the interface does not feel "solid"
enough as of (some flickers, drawing issues etc).
But there are things I don't like in Windows -- for example the lack of control over my settings. Windows tries to be smarter than me and tries to guess what I want to do instead of obeying me. Simple example: I wanted to remove some fonts. Went into fonts folder, deleted some. Restarted. nohting happens. It took me half an hour to discover to my horror that the fonts were just linked into the Recycle bin. After emptying the bin all was fine. This is just ridiculous thing, but one of many of its kind.
Interestingly enough I don't experience crashes on Windows. There's one in about a week, quite reasonable. I suspect it has to do with very responsible and careful system adimistration on my part.
I have yet to speak of things I like in Linux.
First there are ideological goodies -- GPL. I feel that something as powerful as open source movement is the way of the future. It is communism, but in the way it should have been done in the first place
Also I like the notion of true multiuser system and the nice possibilities of running programs with different owners.
Command line configurability is, when mastered, absolutely marvellous because of the speed. GUIs are essentially slow, but they are pretty and sometimes irreplacable.
So why am I still running Windows?
1. Windows has yet to make me snap and get angry.
2. Linux has a tiny bit of proving itself to do. A really tiny one.
Next year this time I will be running Linux.
If they (AutoDesk) were smart, they would get out of bed with Microsoft, and roll back out their AutoCAD for Unix (stopped around release 10 if I recall) That is the only thing holding the majority of my entire company back.
I think AutoCAD up to 12 is abandonware, so If you have a copy for Unix, hook me up please!!
I attemped to switch to Linux a couple years ago. I picked up a copy of Red Hat and the No BS Guide to Red Hat.
It took me 3 days to get X windows running. Once I was up, I felt like I was in India trying to get directions to Moscow. I was so totally lost, but I stuck with it. Booting into Windows to read FAQs and the like.
Two weeks later I picked up a GeForce 256 and couldnt wait to play Quake 2 in Linux. My first linux gaming experience.
Coming from a windows world, I went with what I knew and shut the machine down and installed the new card. When I booted the machine up, instead of getting what I expected (some form of a messgae telling me new hardware was detected) I was introduced to Kernal Panic...
I was totally lost and didnt have a clue what to do. Finally I was faced with reisntalling the OS. I decided to go back to Windows where such simple things were simple and it doesnt take 3 days of searching & reading rude "stupid newbie" comments to accomplish simple tasks.
I havent been back since, although I have a friend that is trying to convince me to try Mandrake.... I wish he was aroudn when I tried installing that damn video card.
Str8Dog
using System.Darkside; public
Best UI, by far.
Most applications, by far.
The most hardware options, by far.
It's the de facto standard for home users.
It's the de facto standard for corporate America.
It's easy to build your own box and hotrod it if you want to.
With all of its many faults, it's the platform that's the least annoying to me.
Print this list out and keep it with you. Next time you start scratching your head and wondering why Windows is so popular, take it out and read it.
Insert witty sig here.
I have a dual-boot WinXP-Slackware 8.1 system at home.
Three things presently keep me on Windows. Aside from those three things, I can do everything I want to do on Linux:
1) Games (ex Jedi Knight, GTAIII)
2) KaZaa Lite (which I can't yet get to work on Wine. no other file-swapping service is good enough)
3) Need MS Word for my job resume (OpenOffice is not QUITE good enough for the job, but it comes close).
There are also little things like QuickTime and RealPlayer, which I can live without. They are not deal breakers for me.
Basically, if I can get all three to run on Linux, then I swear I will dump my Windows partition. I've had it with M$, and I want to stop using any and all of their products.
If Wine gets good enough that I can run those three types of programs on Linux (or equivalents, such as OpenOffice 100% MS Office compatible), then I would be among the first to install and configure it.
I hate Microsoft. I wish I NEVER had to use their damn OS.
This space left intentionally blank.
The Linux GUI(s) is so slow, in my experience.
Question for the Slashdot community:
Why is the Linux GUI (X/Gnome/KDE.. don't have the patience or time right now to try others) so slow to respond to everything? Especially opening simple programs like shells, web browsers, etc. What can I do (other than hardware) to speed it up? Any sufficiently advanced flavor of Linux better for this?
I've run Red Hat 7.2 and Mandrake 8.x on my PIII 450 w/192MB RAM. Granted it's an old machine, but I can use Win9x and Win2K on it and basic programs open much faster. I use it as a server only now, pretty much, which it works well for. But I obviously don't use my server as a main system.
Note: my "experience" is more limited than most here, thus I'm asking the question..
"Truth is not decided by majority vote" consensus gentium -- Norman Geisler
Same shit, different platform.
I'm so lazy I just buy my software. I hate trying to find all the sit/rar files. Then after downloading the same app 3 or 4 times and it still doesn't work, you could generally buy it with your wasted time.
I learned on warez (in college) and bought for my business. This is why I switched to OS X and Linux (server side). My licenses were going to run in the 10's of thousands for MS products (that constantly need babying) and the Linux alternatives are free (with the exception of Oracle DB). I have 3 Macs and I'm getting a powerbook (thank god the high end went from 3700 to 2900) to use as my primary machine. I also have several x86/linux based servers and a UltraSPARC based box (running Oracle 8i no time for 9i yet). I'm going to convert my G4 tower to OS X Server when my Ti book arrives! Linux should pay attention to the UI tools available to Mac OS X Server. They are pretty robust (insert crude joke here)!
I would switch in a heartbeat if MS Office apps could save and open XML formatted documents. And I do mean standard XML format and not with Micro$oft extensions. All of my customers information is sent in MS Word format and I have tried every conversion utility known to man and the one that works consistently is MS WORD.
Apparently Office 11 is supposed to support XML but I'll believe it when I see it...
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
many of us, as you said are forced to use windows at work.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
The other LEGO Cad programs suck.
:)
That, and I can't seem to convince my fiance that Linux works with scanners and printers
But, at work: strictly Linux and NetBSD.
I use Windows at work because I have to. It's the platform that my company writes their product on. I'm a technical writer; can't document what I can't run. Just this last weekend, I bought a new PC. First time I've had a MS OS in my house in ages. (My preferred machine is my TiBook running OSX.) I bought the new PC because I do a fair amount of work at home and need the compatiblity. Even on Windows, I use a fair amount of Open Source stuff (Perl, TeX, OpenOffice, etc.). Les
...the apps. I run NetBSD on my server at home, my primary desktop machine is Win2000. I need to be able to use Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator or Freehand, and Dreamweaver. Although GIMP isn't bad, it's still not as good as Photoshop. I'm not even sure if there are OSS work-alikes for Illustrator or Freehand. And yes, I could run all those on a Mac--which I would actually prefer. But the reason for that is simple too: money. I'm already set-up with PC hardware, and I can't currently afford to make the switch.
By which I absolutely do not mean to say that Windows is the best possible OS, or even tolerably good. I hate Windows with the burning passion of a hundred suns. I find MS's business practices deplorable. I don't even care for the poor values in the Windows developer culture.
The problem is a lack of superior alternatives. I'm only using this thing by default, after all.
I used to use MacOS until pretty recently. It had a lot of heart. But it was also a very old design and was honestly at its peak in the early 90's. Apple should have pursued Taligent and replaced it by 1994 with something heads and shoulders better.
OS X is the devil. While it masquerades as a Mac, it embodies none of the values or design goals that were responsible for the Mac being as well-crafted as it was. Without this, OS X is turning out to be very poor indeed. It isn't significantly advancing the state of UI. In fact, in many areas it is regressing. Where there are Mac carryovers they are usually half-assed; they are the result of a cargo cult of imitators, just as happens with Windows and Unix. Largely they are dominated by NeXT, which was also never any good. (I speak from experience here -- looking slick isn't the same as actually being good, and NeXT is a master of form without substance)
Linux, and other Unices are popular here, but again, there's no dedication towards designing the entire OS and its attendant software around well-conceived and tested UI purposes. Without that, it's doomed to be bad. No one has ever delivered a good desktop Unix -- I don't think that it's really possible without so much work as to make it harder than it would've been to start from scratch with lessons learned and brand-new ideas to try.
I DESPERATELY want something new and better. But at this point in time, no one is interested in doing so. I'd switch to something else in a heartbeat if there were only something to switch to.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
As far as I have been able to tell, all the Linux GUI's are bottlenecked by the X windows architecture of using TCP/IP to interlink the application with its frame buffer, including GTK/Gnome and KDE. This is pure overhead when both the client and server reside on the same machine and serious framebuffer apps consequently perform like slugs. I use Linux where it is smaller and more efficient than Windows, but the Linux' GUIs just ain't it. If someone can point me to a substitute X client that bypasses the server and talks directly to the framebuffer or something I might be interested, but my tests have shown that OpenGL (for example) on Windows is orders of magnitude faster on Windows than it is on Linux.
If there's something I don't know about the availability of a graphics channel on Linux that holds a candle to Windows (besides svgalib, as everyone seems to be phasing support for that out for reasons that I can only conclude are brain-dead), please let me know and I'll stand corrected. A lot of folks out there *claim* that my statement isn't true but haven't been able to show any evidence. I'd REALLY like to be proven wrong here...
Sure, graphics over a network is a cute idea, but WAKE UP-- a huge number of people aren't even using it, and we're *all* taking the performance hit for it.
Development tools work best on Win2k/NT. Linux/Unix GUIs are too sluggish for me. I found it too difficult to install Linux on Solaris hardware that I own. Upgrading to later versions of Linux was still more difficult. I am happy to use tools like Apache, JBoss, Ant etc on Windows and they all work fine ( if not better than on Linux). OS is not important to me.
1) Our accounting system is written in Visual FoxPro - and we're very happy with it. Alas, VFP hasn't run on Unix or Mac since version 3. (Are there any similar high-level database/accounting languages for Linux? All I see are C and C-like languages.)
2) The parts lookup systems we get from different vendors all run on Windows. We *must* be able to run them.
3) Our Win95/98 systems, with the latest patches, are quite stable. Not perfect, but more than good enough.
4) Our Win2000 file server / mail server / gateway / backup system *is* perfectly stable. It hasn't locked up or had so much as a stuck process since we installed it two years ago.
Reasons to continue using windows?
1. No joke, my pc came with it, I'm either too lazy or too dense to successfully install redhat, or mandrake. Did I fail to mention waiting for it to download on my 52k connection?
2. Winmodem, wait, I have to buy an external serial port modem to successfully connect to the Internet?
3. Games, give me all my favorite games on Linux, and I'll have MORE than reason enough to switch.
4. Haven't tried star office or open office, can't say whether MS office is holding me back, but it's a good enough reason right now.
5. That and an over all lack in knowledge of other software applications I could use on Linux, i.e. finance software, or ability to synchronize with my non-existent Palm which I dream to scrape up enough cash to buy.
Reasons to keep trying to switch.
The open source community has caught my interest for the past 2 years, (thank you slashdot)
And of course all the other things come along with an open source OS, like free as in beer, stability like a rock, and a large cost-free support community that has seemed be more willing to help me.
I hate all sigs, even this one.
Yeah, but I was looking for a good reason.
slashdot!=valid HTML
There's no equivalent for Visual Studio. The class browser, inline completion, UML export and integrated dialog tools make creating tools which regular humans can use and normal programmers can extend into a single day's work. The Visual Studio debugger has no equal. It's convoluted, but it does most anything you could ever want.
I know about the crossover plugin, Wine, etc. But I want to sit down and be productive or have fun when I browse the web. I don't want to tinker with little changes and incomplete hacks each time plugins change, and like it or not, it's a Windows web. I browse with Mozilla by default, but it's rare to go a week without having to hit IE half a dozen times.
I don't want to load a client's doc into Star Office and not be able to see some of its components, or to make changes and have it back, only to have them ask what the hell I did to the formatting.
There are a few ports of MAME for Linux, but I don't know of any with the nice, easy menu, comfortable feature set and overall performance.
I've looked at a few DVD player options. I haven't found anything like DVD, and my last venture at getting 5.1 sound under Linux was an utter failure.
I use my Linux and FreeBSD boxes for more and more things every day, but it's mostly server-side work and random data processing tasks. It's just not ready for my desktop.
Says the RIAA: When you EQ, you're stealing bass!
I've had the itch to put linux on over the past few weeks. There are several things I keep thinking about that put it on hold though. 1) Games. Although this is less of a problem since my internet where I am sucks now and I usually played online. 2) Capturing/converting video. I'll capture TV shows with my AIW Radeon 8500. The card will work with linux, and I'll probably be able to capture, however the converting part is holding me back. Windows has tons of nice tools to convert video. Linux has transcode though, but I filter my video (needs smoother) and I have no idea if transcode can do this. 3) DVD watching. I know I can play dvds on it and maybe get 5.1 sound (not sure what drivers would do it for me). And some people say that Xine, Mplayer, etc don't have the same quality as PowerDVD and WinDVD. 4) Ease of use. Although I figure I will like the challenge, it's just not as easy as Windows.
Bought a cheap 2nd hand pc and chose the internal PCI modem - guess what it is a winmodem and until I fork out for a new modem, will need to surf from W95. European Air War is also excellent after a bad day at work. If they had a Linux port of that, I would buy an external modem no matter what the other half said about wasting money. Mandrake 9.0 is already installed.
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
When someone asks me what computer to buy, I ask them: "What would you like to do?" (NOT "What applications do you want to run?" -- there's a significant distinction).
Me, I want to design electronics, so I need various electronics-CAD packages. You know, PCB layout, VHDL/Verilog synthesis and simulation, FPGA implementation, 8051 C compiler, PIC development stuff, etc.
These tools also need to be "affordable." I can buy best-in-class PCB and FPGA tools that run on Solaris (and in some cases, even Linux), but I'd have to mortgage the house to get them. All of the reasonably-priced tools run under Windows.
I've looked. There simply aren't any usuable, affordable (less than, say, $2K) Linux-based PCB or schematic-capture tools. The Keil 8051 compiler beats the pants off of sdcc in so many ways that it's not funny. My EPROM programmer is Windows-only. And on and on.
Until the tools exist for Linux (or Mac, I don't care), I need to keep a Windows machine.
In general I prefer Linux, but Microsoft still does some things better.
Can someone tell me why font rendering looks better on Windows? Am I doing something wrong? Fonts on linux look all blocky and sometimes hard to read, especially in Mozilla and Emacs.
Also, I still find that running graphical programs is laggy on Linux compared to Windows on the same computer. I think GNOME itself may be hogging too many resources. (I havn't used KDE enough to make a comparison).
Windows Explorer beats any of the graphical file browsers I have seen packaged with all the distros I've tried. Of course with Linux you don't need a graphical file browser, but sometimes its nice.
Plus there are still some applications that I have to use on Windows. Gimp may be evolving, but Photoshop still kicks its butt. OpenOffice works, but incorectly reformats word documents I have to share with "Windows only" co-workers. I also am a die hard fan of Textpad and they don't make a Linux version
?
0xfeedface
I work at Microsoft and use linux at home. Microsoft won't let me use linux at work. Work is where I am most of the time when I check /.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
It is obvious that Linux and Mac have a better product that gets under appreciated in the Consumer market. Windows is a great platform for the gamer in all of us. Mac has a good support line for games, and Linux is making due, but windows is the best for it. If nothing else, Microsoft will be able to keep a strong foothold, due to that alone.
Now the real question would be, how many of the windows users have licensed copies of their OS? That is what I want to know. I know for a fact that I run 3 windows 2000 boxes with out any license at all. Does that make me wrong, when I only use them for games and game serving? I don't think so...But then again, that is me...
So how about you?
I inadvertently made an agreement with MS about that when I clicked 'OK' one too many times during the SP4 beta install.
It appears that many Windows users are not very familiar with MacOS X and dismiss it entirely as not being a capable replacement.
To those people, I offer the following URL:
http://www.apple.com/switch/questions/
Seriously. Take a look at MacOS X; it might actually impress you.
My audio prodution software runs under windows.
Although I haven't tested it under emulation in a *nix environment, I also have to have polished drivers that speak to my outboard I/O hardware, and maintain synch, and use machine control, and blah blah blah..... well you get the idea.
Andonyx www.andonyx.com
Well the reason I still use Windows is because Linux is lightyears behind when it comes to audio editing and music notation. Sure, while there are some nice little programs, they're very limited compared to Windows ones.
Soundcard support is pretty lacking too. Sure, lots of cards are supported but they don't support *all* the features of the card. Even the commercial OSS driver lacks features(soundfonts anyone?). I've been asking OSS support about this since 1997 and I always get the same answer: "It's being worked on". Sorry but I just can't wait.
I've also tried ALSA but I've never gotten that to work either.
Alejandro Abreu -- Composer http://listen.to/Ollin
It seems fitting that there is a Visual Studio .NET add on this page...
sudo eat my shorts
Its the establishment keeping me down
I say "Let's migrate to Linux"
they say "We already own Windows"
I say "Linux is better"
they say "Windows is cheaper: we already have it"
windows took over before anyone realized what was really happening and now, even those who know better are too dependent, financially & otherwise, on those who don't know enough to care.
me I have an old P60 running red hat 6 & a thinkpad PII running SUSE, but my only computer with internet access is the shared windows machine
pirates
On any given day I must use the following programs on the same workstation:
Photoshop
3D Studio
FormZ
Dreamweaver
Filemaker Pro
On many days I also must use:
Combustion
AutoCAD
Flash
While my primary job function is a digital artist, I am also expected to handle day-to-day in house IT on my spare time. This involves administrating 5 Win2k/XP boxes, 30 Mac boxes (NOT OSX!), 1 NT4 server, 5 old Macs running as servers, 2 tape backup systems, 2 color printers, 3 office laser printers, 2 large-scale HP plotters, a CD burning station, and 2 tape backup systems.
I am simeltaneously a digital artist, and the only in-house IT support staff. Besides not having the ability to run the applications I need (most notibly 3DStudio and AutoCAD) on other platforms, I don't have time to learn how to configure and administrate a network through command line and config files. I'd like my office to go to Linux servers, but since I'm the only one who has any inkling of how, and because I don't have the time to figure it out - it ain't gonna happen.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
TurboTax. That's it. I boot windows about once
a year these days, at tax time.
And e-mail, at work. (outlook)
I find myself still using Windows on the desktop primarily because of hardware incompatabilities.
Yeah, yeah, I know, kernel 2.4 has support for every device and its brother. But listen:
Until recently, I had a very quirky system setup. I had 2 SCSI hard drives hanging off an old Adaptec ultrawide controller, and an ATA100 hard drive hooked up to one of my motherboard's built-in IDE channels. My motherboard's BIOS didn't support the IDE drive (too large) and there was no BIOS update available, so booting from IDE was out of the question.
LILO never has, and probably never will, boot off the SCSI drives. As far back as I can remember, from the day I first got SCSI drives, LILO would hang after printing "LI" with no further error messages.
I've tried installing four separate distros on probably a dozen occasions; I've installed onto fresh, unpartitioned hard drives and made sure I have a small boot partition well under the 1024-cylinder limit. I've put LILO on primary and secondary partitions, had a brief flirtation with GRUB--the only thing ever to work was a boot floppy, and I'll be damned if I'm going to leave a floppy in the drive just so I can boot.
Now, recently I bit the bullet and bought a new motherboard and brand-spanking-new ATA6 compatible IDE drive. I'm thrilled with its performance, which far surpasses my measly old ultrawide SCSI drives. Now I've got a modern BIOS and IDE-only drives, there's no reason that LILO shouldn't work.
But consider: my new motherboard has onboard 6-channel audio and an onboard Ethernet adapter, neither of which are supported in the latest Redhat release. I have an old Turtle Beach audio card which would be a suitable replacement for the onboard sound, but I strongly suspect I won't find any mixers with support for four-channel audio.
I'm not even going to think about support for my Radeon 9000-based video card. I'm sure there's an X server that'll support it, but it seems a shame to let its awesome 3D capabilities lie fallow. And even if I can get Mesa or another OpenGL workalike to support it, there are few 3D apps available for Linux. I'd need to keep a Windows install around for games, or look into WineX.
Now consider my schedule: I work a 40-55 hour work week and participate in a number of sports and recreational activities outside of work. I typically have less than four hours of discretionary time available in the evening; into these four hours I have to pack: dinner, TV, household chores, and whatever else needs to be done. Some evenings, it's all I can do just to scan Slashdot for late-breaking headlines!
With my schedule, why on earth would I want to spend two weeks of valuable evenings to install a new OS, simply so I could then fetch a Linux build of Mozilla and continue using it where I left off using Mozilla under Windows? It's sheer madness.
I hold Linux close to my heart; I use it in all of my servers and all of my clients' servers. I wouldn't be able to get through the workday without GNU utilities. But, at least for the time being, the overhead of switching to a Linux desktop is simply too great.
In windows and mac os, you will find common tasks in the same location for every program. Linux is getting better at this, but no one is forcing programers to follow a standard.
Sofware installtion has the same problems. I want to know where the binary executable is placed when I install a program. It would be nice if all programs went to the same location, and part of the install script told me where the executable was located. If it is a program that runs under Xwindows, I want the installation script to ask me if I want a link on my gnome or kde menu.
Here at work, I have to use Windows; we are an MS shop. At least I can use Mozilla and Phoenix instead of IE though. Anyway, at home I run, or at least try to run, Linux. However, I flip back and forth between the two on a fairly regular basis. Why you might ask? Proper sound support!
My computer doubles as my stereo & alarm clock. In the morning, either XMMS or Winamp wakes me up, and the rest of the time, it's my stereo. I have a nice 5 speaker surround sound system with a subwoofer, connected to a Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 card. I use the digital out on the sound card to the digital DIN jack on the receiver. I also have the creative Live Drive, which has inputs for headphones, midi, etc., on the front.
The reason I swap back and forth is because this setup is not very well supported under Linux. It does have support under Linux (emu10k1 chipset/module), and Red Hat finally detects it properly as of 8.0 Here are the problems I've run into with this setup under Linux:
Red Hat 7.3: Took me hours to get this card actually working. Couldn't get more than 2 speaker output. Needed emu-tools (see below).
Red Hat 8.0: Detects the card properly, but does not turn on digital out on my card; it defaults to analog. You have to install emu-tools and run 'emu-config -d' after logon to get any sound. On the first run of RH8, I get 4 speaker output. If I reboot, only the satellite speakers work.
SuSE 8.0/8.1: SuSE detects this card perfectly out of the box, and has since 8.0. Their ALSA support is excellent, and they use Gamix, which means I can get support for the headphone jack on the Live Drive, etc. However, there is a problem with their support; their configuration does not use standard PCM controls, so adjusting the volume in programs like XMMS does NOTHING!! You have to physically adjust the volume on the receiver, or bring up Gamix and adjust it there. Did I mention that Gamix is done in Motif, and will randomly exit without warning? Ick.
Mandrake 9.0: Mandrake 9 does pick up my sound card, and turns on Digital Out by default, but only gives me 2 speakers again. Oddly enough, they give me the front L & R channels, exactly the opposite of RH 8.0.
I like good sound, and I want all my speakers to work. I don't play many games, so Windows isn't an issue there, and the Cisco VPN client is available on linux too, which is great. However, lack of proper 5.1 sound is enough to keep me on Windows. Also, gamix is impossible to install manually; the instructions are in Japanese only, and it fails about a dozen different dependencies that I was unable, even after several hours, to resolve.
I should be able to install a major distro, have it detect and initialize my card correctly, and I should NOT have to recompile my kernel for more than 2 speakers! My live drive should work without having to use a flaky motif program on SuSE. This is a big problem, and I'm not happy with it. At this point, I'm tempted to wait until ALSA lands in the kernel before buying another distro. I'm using RH 8.0 right now, but only having 2 speakers is really starting to get to me.
P.S. If anyone else has gone through this problem, please post your experiences or any assistance you can offer; I would really like to stick with Linux and have proper sound!
I have an old 133MHz laptop, I only use it for email and slow websurfing.. I guess anything would be better then windows on it. But the rest of my machines run XP.
My continued use of Windows comes down primarily to inertia:
:)
1. I've been a very happy user of Cakewalk products. I recently upgraded to SONAR, and I've really enjoyed using it.
2. I own a Roland LAPC-1. I can't fit it in a Mac, and the Mac is the only system that has equal or better music-writing software.
3. Quicken. I swear by Quicken. I couldn't even balance my checkbook before it.
4. I've been a PC game player for many years.
But by and large, when I upgrade next, most of the above reasons will be gone:
1. As good as Cakewalk is, the Mac has a greater variety and quality of music-editing software than the PC. The products that are out there are also more mature. The Macintosh is the industry standard for music. Why am I settling for second-best?
2. I don't want to sacrifice the old LAPC-1's sound for anything, but as long as used MT-32's are available on eBay for $25, I no longer have to be stuck with it. Besides; even if I stay with a PC, motherboards with ISA slots are few and far between, and I no longer want to be limited to just mobos that have ISA slots.
3. They make Quicken for Mac, and there are similar programs (e.g. gnucash) for Linux.
4. I find that most of my game-playing time nowadays is done on consoles, and I rarely (if ever) play games on the PC other than simple Java apps.
A lot of these reasons have been around for a while, but only now am I at a point where something other than Windows can be considered an option -- in fact, a Macintosh is a much more attractive option for most of what I do now. My next computer will probably be a Macintosh, and my Windows box will get converted to a Linux machine.
God, I sound like one of those annoying "Switch" ads.
at work, I get W2K, at home I use OSX and redhat. I used to keep a W2K box at home, so that I could vpn in to work and perform network admin tasks at off hours, however, there's now an RDP client for OSx and rdesktop app for linux, so I use those when I absolutely need a windows desktop. I enjoy the days I get to bring my Powerbook to work and let my boss watch me admin a worldwide W2K network from a mac :)
I run WinXP on my laptop.
If it could run games, and the hardware was cheaper, I'd nab an OSX-based notebook.
If it could run games, run decent graphics and 3D apps like Photoshop & 3DS Max, play all of my movies in a decent movie player without having sound fail because the codec wasn't supported, had a for-dummies set up of hibernation all ready to go, and had a consistent interface between apps, I'd choose Linux.
I recently tried RH8, and I probably would have stuck with everything that annoyed me about it if all the apps supported antialiasing, rather than just the shell and two or three other apps. I tried the GTK2 fix thing or whatever it's called, but it just nailed my system. It sounds like a small thing, but it's the small things that eventually drive you mad.
I'm on linux, but my wife refuses to give up Windows until there's a Dreamweaver equivalent. Mozilla Composer don't cut it.
Software Wars
Purely speaking about the desktop, 'facts' in the case resemble:
- The large majority of users see and understand the negative effect that Microsoft's dirty behaviour has had on the software industry
- Pirating Windows, therefore, takes money away from MS, IF the copy would otherwise have been bought
- With reference to the previous two points, Windows can ethically cost $0 to own and operate
- Hence, for a single desktop user, the monetary cost of Windows does not realistically differ from Linux
Now, imagine that the Linux desktop, configured just how YOU LOVE it, was what you'd used for the last few years. You discover Windows, and see:
- Much more integrated, polished feel
- Easy, fast file handling
- No need to recompile half the OS each time you want to use a new program
- No need to compile said program
- A huge amount of ready to use software ( see previous two points )
- Almost all software integrates on the desktop, eg via clipboard etc
- Amusing point: Slashdot renders, to most people's eyes, better in IE on XP/2K than any form of Linux desktop
- Etc etc etc
Now, given the opening facts, you can happily use it without any financial expenditure.
For me, it's just easier to live with day to day, when I have to get stuff done, work completed, etc, rather than tinker, which like most Slashdot readers I love to do when time permits. I also like to dream that the Linux desktop will overtake, but right now, Windows makes life easier than Linux would, on the desktop.
There are 2 big reasons that I have a dual-boot system with Red Hat 8 and Windows XP-pro. Big Old Number 1 is of course GAMES. I enjoy video games and I feel that right at this point the games that I want to run run better in Windows-XP than WINE. I have tried to configure WINE to my satisfaction, but it is more complicated than I enjoy dealing with (I have given it a try several times all to my dissapointment) Wine is just more complicated than I suspect the average user is willing to deal with, and the fact that you still have to use Windows DLLS to get it to function in top form kind of takes the wind out of my "to hell with microsoft" sails. Someone needs to make an open-source remake of Half-Life. That would just be cool. What we really need is an open source 3d game engine. The engine could then be used to run all sorts of games written for it. Also if it were capable of properly displaying models for other engines it would be nice. Like an open source 3d engine that could display Quake III, Half-Life, and maybe eventualy Doom 3 models and levels and whatnot. Ah if only I could program. (I am trying my hardest to learn by the way. I am already going to school for other things or I would take classes.) Also in the games category is video drivers. Nearly all video cards can be configured automaticaly using Redhat or Mandrake (and probably others, but I haven't tried them) But they do not have opengl/direct3d/glide hardware acceleration enabled or configured by default. After hosing my system three times while trying to install glut, mesa, and Linux Nvidia drivers, I finaly succeeded. I now have fully functioning openGL support, but I am geeky and I suspect that I was willing to put more effort into configuring my video card than most people. I can, for the life of me, not figure out why video game companies do not just as a given, write their games so that they are easily portable to Linux/bsd/solaris whatever. If the company didn't want to invest the time to port their game, they could release the source code under a license that would not allow it to be used in commercial applications, and just have the community port it, which time has shown that people are willing to do. I think a linux doom port was out 3 or 4 days after the source was released. The company could hold on to the data files necessary to run the game and sell those, but release the source code to the executables, sort of how iD did with Doom. Just a thought there. Also the volume of linux users suggests that, even if games were not compatible with linux out of the box, the company could put linux binaries on their website and use the data files from the purchased CD. There could just be a "surgeon general's warning" sort of lable on the box that said something like "Linux Binaries available at www.blah.com" or whatever. My second reason is the learning curve associated with Linux. I remeber the first time I tried to install a Slackware system. I don't remeber which version it was but it was a long time ago. I ordered my 4 cd set for like $9 or something from cdrom.com -- remeber when they were cool? I got it home and busted out with partition magic and then proceeded to do terrible things to my hard disk. I managed to get a working installation, but it has taken me several years of playing around on and off to get familiar with Linux to the point that it is useful to me. There is still so much I don't understand about the system, but if development continues to go in the direction it has previously, linux will be easier and easier to use and configure. There are some things I just do not know how to do with Linux yet. Hardcore n00bs are in trouble if they don't have a lot of free time to learn the system. There are pleanty of great books and websites and whatnot, but linux is advancing faster than most documentation keeps up. Just as a side note I think I am going to build myself a "linux from scratch" when I get an extra hard drive. I feel like that will help me learn the system even better. I still can't get my damned printer to work. The thing that irritates me the most is that my printer works great in Mandrake, but not in Redhat, but in Mandrake, my mouse usualy doesn't work, but sometimes it will. That is so irritating. just as another side note, my mouse is an IBM optical mouse called the "optical navigator" or something. If anyone knows why this would screw up in Mandrake let me know.
Several factors for me:
1) Money. I already have windows boxes. I would switch to a Mac running OS X if I had the money to spare. Yes, linux/bsd is free, but I'll elaborate on those in my next factor...
2) Ease of use. Windows is just plain easier to use when it comes to configuration, installation, and uninstall. You download an exe. You run it to install. The installation is easy and anyone can understand what the installer is doing. Configuration is all GUI based and usually (depending on the development) easy to do. Uninstall is even easier, just run either the Uninstaller or have windows uninstall it through their Add/Remove Programs widget.
Configuring services on a linux/bsd system is still something that anyone new to the system would have to do a considerable amount of homework on how to do. With windows, there is usually built in help and/or an actually company you can call/email and ask for help.
3) Games Games Games. Every new game comes out on windows first. Not many ports for Mac or Linux and when there are ports, they are usually at least a year behind the initial release. This sucks.
4) Installation of the OS. Now, this is more directed towards Linux, but Windows is still extremely easy to install the OS. After installation, it's very easy to go back and choose things to install (services, etc). Some distros have improved the actual installation tremendously. Some still are in the dark ages and n00bs will struggle getting them installed (BSD comes to mind, although to be truthful I haven't installed BSD in over a year.) Distro's like RedHat, Suse (suse8 rocks!), Mandrake, etc all have wonderful installers, but some parts I feel will still intimidate some folks (partitioning of drives, selection of packages, etc.) Then the post install can just be mind boggling sometimes. People unfamiliar w/ Linux will not know where to start. Given that each distro is different doesn't help.
I know I'll probably get flamed for some of the above, but please...take a step back, and think about linux from a standpoint of where you dont have years of experience. People simply won't convert to Linux because some geekhead says it's cool. People need to feel comfortable (important!) installing and using the OS. Linux just isn't there yet.
OS X is completely different. From that stand point it's all about price and available software. The price of a Mac is just way to high for me to justify.
Aliens? Magnetic Rings?! Bah! Who needs that when we have
I think I'd make a great switch campaign ad...
I recently had to go laptop shopping. I needed a better day-to-day computing tool.
I looked at everything. Originally my bias was towards the PC, because it has so much penetration, and because of Microsoft Office. I have not yet found a better tool than that.
I agree with this post, we all use Windows, Bill has got the lock on the desktop. Honestly, I'm not sure that that needs to change in a big hurry. I have not yet seen any desktop productivity apps that really make Linux usable for daily work. So it really only leaves Windows.
Finally, I got around to looking at Macintosh. What really attracted me was the Mach Kernel, adn the UNIX underneath the whole thing. The fact that I could get Microsoft Office and the Entourage client (If you have not yet seen entourage, you've got to check it at least once, its mail and calendaring done RIGHT - by Mickeysoft no less.)
So, I bought one. I am a happy camper. All my perl works - if I wated to run postgres on it I could... I can seemlessly ssh to all my remote systems from a set of icons on my desktop. I've upgraded to perl 5.8.0 without resorting to Fink...
So I get UNIX, day-to-day productivity, decent performance from 256MB RAM, and best thing is that, like the rest of the apple switch ads say - stuff just works.
I plugged my camera into the thing. I was fully prepared for the nightmare of installing and rebooting several times, etyc. etc. But NO! the camera worked seamlessly - no software installs, no reboots. Same with my MP3 player. I did need the OSX driver for my printer, but that was a no-brainer.
Anyway, all I know is that if you want UNIX and desktop apps, you cant go wrong with a Macintosh. Oh yeah, I bought the iBook w/ 14" display, and built in wireless.
1. Microsoft ain't evil and yes, mankind has actually landed on the moon.
2. I can't think of a single reason to load open source stuff. Why? So I can join the anti-M$ establishment and be kewl?
3. Its too much fun visiting SlashDot and reading all your liberal anti-M$/Windows stuff and wondering how so many can be so dumb.
4. Porn.
Until I get full functionality from Outlook Web Access (OWA) or FREE (as in beer) functionality from something like Ximian, I'm tethered to my Exchange server.
$69 a seat for Ximian's Exchange 2000 connector doesn't help me justify not spending $130 for Windows 2000/XP upgrade licenses.
On the home front, the truth is WINE still doesn't have full Everquest support. That's why half a million of us aren't changing anytime soon.
I've been running Linux in one shape or another since 1.4, but no matter how many times I try to NOT use Windows apps, I always find myself setting up some sort of dual boot (either on the same machine, two with a KVM switch, or whatever).
Why? Let's all be very honest with ourselves. As much as we all hate the evil empire, Linux can be a real pain on the desktop. For servers, there's no comparison IMHO - Linux has always served me well as a home server and utility boxes at work when I can slip one in under the radar.
It's the simple stuff, or the stuff that you just want to get going without a lot of hassle, that is often the most flustrating with desktop Linux. Remembering what you did to get Realplayer to play automatically, wondering where that old copy of MusicMatch is (they don't offer it anymore), trying to figure out why your latest Microsoft Office document won't load in OpenOffice, StarOffice, or whatever. Getting flustrated because you can't just install something, you have to build from source or figure out where all the dependencies are for your latest RPM install.
I find as I get older I get even more impatient trying to get things to work. So, generally, it goes like this: If I feel like the intellectual challenge, and the satisfaction, of getting a new application working, I'll boot into Linux and spend a comfortable evening downloading, compiling and looking for help on the net. If I'm in a big hurry, I boot into Windows, install what I need to install, and it just (well, usually) WORKS. I don't like it, I wish I didn't have to ever boot into Windows, but sometimes I just don't have the time to fool with Linux.
It's not about religion, it's not about principles. It's just some lousy software that works on the silicon I have here. Let's try not to get too emotional about it, okay?
"You can't have everything. Where would you keep it?" -- Steven Wright
Sure, I rap to /. on my fav WinME box and yeah the WinX boxes have earned my living on-the-WWW for the last 5 years ... rock-solid 10-hours at a time. And sure, I've casually "kept" a Linux box ( like a hi-maintain galpal )for the last two years. In fact I just built a P4S333/P4@2.0 to keep RedHat_8.0 cozy ... and I PAID for RedHat unlike most dweezles on /. if ya can believe the rap. In those two years not once has RedHat ( or Suse-the-*itch ) approached the easy admin & slick-as-a-horney-rattlesnake-in-olive-oil functioning I require ... and get from WinX. What's the M$-ACCESS substitute, huh??? Nothing!! I tried, pad'res and I would be sleeping under a bridge had I not reverted to WinX. 'Course I pinch pennies, and never have there been as many FREE, usefull proggies for *nix as there have been for WinX: SANDRA specs me out, CRESCENDO does midi & ABIWD my wp. Just count the rest! PROXO, ZONAL, MAILWASHER, AVG, ... I live/die by these covering my azz! ... think I'll stop! NO equivalents to those great plug-N-play proggies exist in *nix. Only recently has *nix GALEON taken 1st place in my ranking of Browsers, ahead of NS_6.2 ... course by now I'm on DSL (nice USB plug), and the folks I work for have introd WinX-specific client software. So to move onto *nix I'd have the WINE & DSL install hassel. So you see, pad'res *nix gives me no vig, no 'percentage' to move over. Meanwhile I can dump all my old SCSI stuff into the RedHat tower and it seems to spit rarely --- who knows, maybe next year ...
is about all I use windows for. Staroffice deals with the MS-office problem, Mulberry or Evolution for mail, opera for a browser, winamp, trillian for IM/ICQ. Mostly I use FreeBSD, but I don't trust wine to deal with financials, and games. As soon as Intuit adds linux or BSD support and I can get more games for linux, Windows will only be of use as a platform for virus research.
It was Judge Woodlock, in the US District Court for Massachusetts, with a gavel.
For me it's just not having time to learn more. Once you know how to do something on Linux - make a connection, use an app, whatever - it's as easy as on Windows or easier. But getting there can take hours per task. For example, I'm trying to set aside a few hours,, or however long it may take, sometime to figure out how to make my Win2k and Red hat boxes share files (yes I'm a complete newbie). BUt this has been pushed back for several weekends now, and likewise with a million other things. *Meanwhile* I have to have a machine I can fully use for work and writing, etc. and that means continuing on Windows - with an increasing sense of being unwillingly stuck in the proprietary world.
i would quit windows totally TODAY, if i had some MIDI software (namely cakewalk SONAR or steinberg cubase + plugins/addons) running under linux.
but i don't see this happening any time soon because too many in the midi industry are vehemently opposed to anything with even a hint of "free" in it.
i spoke to people at echo audio (audio hardware soundcards) and the guy went completely bonkers. something like... what? linus? open source? are you f-ing nut? we will NEVER, and i mean NEVER write open source drivers. screw linux.
to which i replied, drivers don't have to be open source. to which he re-iterated his previous rant. he didn't even want to consider the possibility of linux drivers, and was so close-minded that he refused to hear the truth that drivers could be closed source. hell, he could even charge for them if he wanted to, but it's just not on his radar.
so i bought a delta soundcard from midiman.com who does support linux.... i'm planning ahead for the time when some company will offer commercial midi software for sequencing.
No, I'm not kidding. I can't stand the interface of Photoshop, so therefore I can't stand the interface of The Gimp. All those windows are just awkward. I don't have an separate windows for my webbrowsing and my navigation bar and my toolbar - why are graphics programs so different? At least PSP gets that right. They align the toolbars along the sides of the window like every other application. It's simpler and easier to use. Even Macromedia Dreamweaver that did copy Adobe in it's a-million-and-one floating windows now aligns it to the side within the single window. Can the GIMP do this?
--Giving to trolls for the benefit of us all
Reasons I need Windows:
1) Mathematica for school purposes, and at my previous job, for work purposes. Matlab and Maple are both available for Linux, and Octave is available for free on Linux and Windows. But nothing compares to Mathematica for some things (NonlinearRegress anyone?)
2) Running IntelliJ IDEA JAVA compiler. It is JAVA, so it should run on Linux. In fact it used to for me, but now that I have Debian testing on my system the libc6 binaries are too "new" for the IntelliJ IDEA program, and so it crashes on start. So this is a dependancy problem which just doesn't exist in Windows.
3) Burning CDs. Linux can do audio CDs okay. I haven't quite mastered how to back up my data though and have the CD turn out properly AND work in both Windows and Linux. Something to do with the Rockridge/Joliet/ISO standard, blah, blah... The filenames get screwed up and stuff.... So I store all my data on a FAT32 drive and access it from both Linux and Windows. Then I back up that drive on CD using Roxio CD Burning Software.
4) I wasn't going to put Microsoft Office on this list, because I primarily use OpenOffice. BUT, there is one exception. I need Excel sometimes to quickly do a fit to some data and I need to do a trendline, etc.. Sure Octave for Linux can do this, but it is a pain. With Excel I just grab some delimited data, highlight the data, graph it, right-click, add trendline, options->show equation, done!
5) Playing Diablo II Expansion Pack over Battle.net. I haven't looked into how I could do this with Wine. But every time I've tried Wine in the past, it hasn't worked.
6) I'm still using Microsoft Money 2000 to track all my investments. GNU Cash sucks for investments, and all the other investment software projects for Linux are not complete, and some haven't been maintanted in some time, I consider them unusable. I think KMyMoney2 may become my program of choice, but I'll wait until it is a bit more mature, and hopefully they'll add some more investment funcctionality. I tried running my MS Money 2000 over Wine but it didn't work.
RH 8.0 / Suse 8.1 + StarOffice + Mozilla + decent editor - rock solid on my OmniBook 6000.
OS installation - smooth
Staroffice - handles all Office files I've been sent
Mozilla - no probs
etc
Cost = virtually nil.
The only thing that I use windows for is Macromedia Studio MX, primarily Dreamweaver and Flash. Once they run better on wine/crossover office I will be a full convert. I can't wait till then. I have done what I can to contribute to wine to make it happen.
Because I hate dual-booting, and my fiance would persistently bitch at me until Windows was reinstalled. So in a nutshell...because the "whoa-man" doesn't want to learn a new OS.
Yet another example of how women are evil and stand in the way of progress.
Time is what keeps me on Windows. Working 50+ hours a week in IT, being a father and husband, and having an interest in other activities. I don't have time to play around with an OS to get it to do things that Windows and it's apps do w/out thought. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to play, I just don't have the time to devote to it. That's not to say I don't keep a distro or two on my machine, they're just not my main OSes.
I need to be able to quickly rip and burn music, do mail merges from my address book, sync my Palm for PIM and financial records, and do my finances easily (including budgeting, paying bills, and downloading statements). I'd love to do all this on Mac OS X, I just can't afford to buy an iBook right now.
At home, Quicken is essential. I consider it the most critical application I run. While verything else is entertainment, education, or just a hobby, Quicken is lifeblood. I'd be happy to run it on some other operating system (Macintosh may be a possibility), but for now I need Windows as long as I need Quicken.
I don't mind using Windows, as long as I can have most of the Cygwin suite installed. Ideally, I would like Quicken on Linux.
- I play a lot of games. Windows has the highest number of game titles.
- I Already have all of the tools I need running under Windows and I do not feel like spending the time learning to use analogs of those tools in another OS.
- I know my way around Windows well enough to do the administration I need to do. I don't feel like throwing all that knowledge away.
- I can't afford a system that can run Mac OSX at a reasonable speed.
- I do not like *nix. I like it for its technical aspects and its power, but administering it gives me headaches.
- I do not like KDE or Gnome.
All that being said I am no fan of Microsoft's business practices. I do not use most MS products other than the OSes. I use the computer and OS to run the applications I want to run. I am not an OS hobbiest who uses the computer in order to use a particular OS.Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Every piece of MS software I have is Pirated! So I'm just doing my part to screw Redmond!!
well... and I need it for Games.
This "Ask Slashdot" is the biggest flamebait story I've ever seen. Actually its more of a troll.
foe me, freak me.
I only use MS products here at work at the helldesk, not my choice, simply what my workplace mandates. At home I have declared an MS free zone and am quite happy that way. In fact I know at my workplace everything that is done with an MS product could be easily replaced with Linux.
My desktop is Debian Sarge. I had a dual boot setup w/ XP Pro but I trashed that partition and haven't looked back. :)
But for laptops, XP is the only OS that doesn't drop packets for some strange reason and is rock solid on wireless connectivity. I have a Dell Inspiron 8100 and would love to get wireless working if anybody has any tips or has been down this road already. Maybe once I get out of the Marines, I'll buy a Powerbook but right now a Sergeant's pay can't afford that
The way I see it, if you're running some type of broadband and non-wireless connection, there's no reason at all not to be running an Open Source OS.
This guy is way out there
I've not had much problem being locked into windows....
I've be on several projects as a DoD contractor, where they usually are apes about locking down systems, but, I have been able to dual boot these machines...and I run Linux about 98% of the day and can do all I need to do...actually I have the advantage 'cause I can use my Xwindows to easily connect to our Sun boxes...ssh is nicely built in for secure connections...no crashes or BSOD's which plague my NT counterparts in my group.
I have Linux running at home...so far all RH, but, am experimenting with Gentoo at home...great so far...and fast as hell.
I only go into win, when I need to use ERWin, as a data modeling tool....which is win only so far...and some mgmt tools here are IE only, so, I boot into those...but, otherwise...Linux, and I'm not the only one either...its growing...and since it takes an act of God to get the govt. to buy a tool you need for you job...by using Linux, you can find an open source version, and do you job without having ot wait till the red tape parts, and they finally get an outdated piece of software that you no longer need....
anon
Perhaps a better poll would have the options:
1) I use windows and have a licence for it.
2) I use windows and steal from the evil.
.
.
.
I'd be willing to bet that the piracy-friendly community here who does run windows doesn't often pay for it...except when it comes loaded on a new machine.
Sorry for the anonymous post. I'm at work and this janky browser doesn't support the scripts needed to access my email account, to get my new account info.
Anyways, my vote is games.
Games are the only reason I use windows.
If I could get work doing Linux/UNIX stuff, I'd abandon Windows for good. But for now, I must use what I support. The biggest professional mistake I ever made was to get started in IT doing Windows and desktop stuff. Now I'm typecast, and nobody wants to give me a shot at anything else.
I'm going back to school, hoping that getting a degree will expand my options. But every school I've looked at is locked into MS contracts, and therefore they require that the bulk of school work is done using MS products. I can't win.
Cygwin - bash on XP = heaven.
Linux GUI is crap and windows CLI is crap so best of both worlds.
Windows requires minimal set up things like, say, printers. I'm a working professional (software development), and when I go home, I do NOT want to configure my PC.
I choose the best tool for the job. Windows is great for users. Linux is nice for servers. When I need Linux tools, I can just install cygwin. When I feel like writing code, I can just install cygwin or ActiveState's Perl distro.
Microsoft Office (esp Excel) has no parallel -- it's the best office suite out there by a mile.
PhotoShop blows the GIMP out of the water.
AC/DC is a far superior photo viewer to anything Linux has.
Everything works.... it's a fine OS for a GUI and what I do.
If I am running a server -- Say, at work, I'll run Linux. If I have to write code, I can do it anywhere. For me at home, though, Windows XP Pro and 2000 are MUCH more stable and powerful for desktop applications, and they help me get things done.
Games, and the fact that I bought Photoshop for the PC years ago, and I'll be damned if I'm going to A) buy it again for another platform at its ridiculous price (or try convincing my employer to do so), or B) learn the GIMP or another program, because my day to day work life is busy enough without having to learn how to do everything all over again.
The same goes for a number of applications I use every day, and have little motivation to try to find the equivalent for on a different OS. Because that's hard work, and as Douglas Coupland says, "Hard work may pay off someday, but laziness pays off right now."
So, yeah, laziness and intertia. I've been using my Windows tools for so long, and use them so much, that to switch over to another OS because it's "better" is not something I feel I have the time for.
Surprisingly enough, Windows (2000 or XP) actually fullfills these requirements much better than Linux. It fullfills the "SSH" and "Shell" requirements through Cygwin, and the "Security" requirement through ZoneAlarm and my router (it's not 100% safe but it's reasonable). All other requirements Windows supports natively; especially, the "GUI" and "Fonts" requirements. The "Configuration" requirement barely passes, but even regedit is better than "wtf is this config file and where am I supposed to put it".
By contrast, Linux fails most of the requirements miserably, except for "Shell", "Security", and "SSH"; "Stability" is ok but not as good as WinXP (this came as a major surprise to me). I realize that I am just a dumb windows luser and if I do steps X, Y and Z then I can get fast GUI with antialiased fonts, but the failure of the "Configuration" requirement prevents me from really doing anything about it.
Note that I am approaching Linux as a desktop user, not as a server admin or a computer hobbyist (aka hacker). Linux (or BSD, I am not about to start that war again) is perfect for admins because of all the remote administration and security features, not to mention Apache/Oracle/etc. It's perfect for hobbyists because it's just so complex and cool. I occasionally assume the admin/hobbyist personality, but most of the time I just want to get work done and/or play some games.
Also note that I don't care about ethical/philosophical issues as much. However, when MS shoves Palladium down my throat, Windows will fail the Multimedia/Games requirement, and probably several others, which may give Linux the edge it needs to win me over.
>|<*:=
2. Gee, so Macs have been making all these videos I've been downloading off of Kazaa? There are more friggin' Macs out there than I thought.
3. PCs do this just as well as Macs.
4. In the statement "1992 to present" there are a lot more years than 1992, 1993, and 1994.
Thanks for the troll, Troll... I love ya lady, buh-bye!
I'm at home sick today, and I was planning on playing some Battlefield 1942 (mostly because it's gameplay goes so well with Dayquil), but just for that comment, I'm going to boot back into Linux, remote-display my IDE over ssh and get some work done...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
I run MacOS X exclusively now, both at home and at work. Luckily, my employer lets me use my own laptop, so I bring my new 1GHz TiBook to the office. Sure, I could use their Win2k laptop, but they only offered me a 1GHz one, so I'm quite glad I can use my Powerbook instead.
As for how I can use it fine? Well, I do internet security work, so most tools that I need run on OS X. For papers, presentations, etc., I have a copy of Office v.X, and Photoshop 7 that I also have to use sometimes.
Apps and corporate standards. I work in a Windows shop, and many of the apps we use daily are custom apps written both in-house and by vendors for the Windows Platform. Re-writing them all for Linux, or even platform independence would be a multi-hundred-million dollar undertaking. For now, I'm stuck on Win2K.
My home network is Linux, NetWare, and Win2K. My home PC dual boots W2K and Linux and I have a Linux workstation hidden in my office, just to be contrarian.
-- "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." - R.A.H.
"Buy a console!"
I did, I bought an XBox!
Yup, that's right, I'm a Microsoft employee. Well, not yet, actually. I've accepted a job with them to start this January. So, needless to say I'll be using Windows at work. :) I accepted a job with them because the environment looks cool, I have friends up there already, and they gave me a damn good offer.
Right now, I run Gentoo. I've been running Linux for 4 years. Next week, it'll be WinXP Pro and then Win.NET Server when it comes out. Something I've noticed while I've been using Linux over the past four years is that while stability and power has been increasing, desktop ability is not increasing at nearly the same rate. Linux is too fractured. Normal users don't like man pages. They want some sort of web-structure they can use to jump around to different help information quickly. It's a pain in the ass to get internationalization, syncing between laptop/desktop, etc. Sure, all of this stuff _can_ be done, but they don't make it fsck'ing easy, which hurts the OS for everyday use.
There needs to be more interoperation between components. Rather than each developer saying "this will be the coolest piece of software if I do it like this" without much thought to how it should operate with other programs to make things super-duper easy for normal users. Thus, you're left with leaving the nerds to tinkering. It's fun when you do get it to work and you feel satisfaction, but you then look back and say "That took me 6 HOURS?!" when it takes 10 minutes under Win2k. Now that I am getting a real job, I don't have time to mess around for 6 hours on a task that should be available out of the box and work good without having to make weird symlinks and scripts. Fonts are a bitch. This really really really hurts Linux. Plus, I love Photoshop, MS Office, and a lot of other apps that might have free counterparts available for Linux, but just don't look that good or work quite as you think they should.
Don't get me wrong, I love Linux. Like I said I've been using it for 4 years. It's going to be hard to switch back after all this time. Among the things I will miss are: command line, speed, stability, customizability and the fact that a lot of good software comes for free. I will still use Mozilla on my Windows box at home and I will probably use vim at work to write code (yes, many MS employees use vim and emacs).
I will continue to use Linux for my NAT/firewall box until Windows gets up to speed (if ever) in this area. However, for now, my desktop box will be a desktop OS.
My job will be in a department just recently started to create secure networked software. I'm hoping to do a really awesome job in this area and hopefully give Microsoft a good name. Even Linux has security flaws. No matter what OS you work on, if you can get it to have better security then you're bettering everyone's computer experience and the economy.
I'll still read Slashdot, though. Why? Because it's still a damn good place to get News for Nerds.
-Shippy
3 reasons.
Desktop applications, p2p etc, if these were developed first for Linux/UNIX platforms then I would probably make this my permanent desktop.
Habit, old habits die hard.
Games, I like a shoot em up every so often, configuring transgaming etc can be a pain, in fact Linux can be a pain because you don't stop configuring, that can also be it's finest and greatest feature, dual edged sword.
I use a Dell 2k box at work, and at home have a variety of Unix and Windows. But /. server logs would show me as a windows user. Here's why:
/usr/bin has become. Minor config BS followed by Library issues.
My Entertainment Computer:
Athlon 1GHZ
1GB RAM
TV Card
Dual Monitor (29" CRT 17" LCD)
WinXP Pro
Why:
Linux supports my TV card, but it is a major pain to set up. Poor DVR capabilities compared to WinDVR or SnapStream. Dual Monitor support is better in some circumstances with Linux, but mostly the featrues I like (DVDMax, etc...) are provided by the Matrox Video Drivers.
Gaming - This is my gaming rig, although I don't game much. But I NEED Madden NFL and Morrowwind.
Porn - I just hate getting Quicktime or WMA porn on Linux. Also, I like the Slideshow Feature for images in XP pro.
DVD, CD, etc... Ripping - It is a pain to set these up under linux. (Is it possible to rip DVD2DivX in Linux??) Plus viewing - Good full screen, etc...
I use Linux on one box, but Linux Distros have imitated too much of Windows. I use windowmaker with a BeOS theme, and occasionally Gnome, and occasionally KDE, sometimes just Enlightenment. Ewww. KDE mimics the Windows GUI to the point where the even have an out-of-control "K" menu (Think start menu) and Kandalf, the talking....
Gnome just always felt clunky. Works with all windowmanagers, works well with none.
To be honest, I am seriously considering switching my Linux box to Windows. As stable, as easy to use, less compatibility issues, a large library of warez^H^H^H^H^H software, etc... Linux (mostly due to it's handling by the Distro folks) has become a productivity sink for me. I find that I spend too much time trying to remember which program does what, and where it is. The munged up mess that
Windows at least seems to have become more stable, more consistant, and free from DLL HELL. Now, instead of figuring out an XF86Config, I figure out how to stop the 18 ways that XP phones home, where the hidden/hidden files are, and watching for new vulnerabilities.
Linux is not the problem. It is the distro creators who are looking to put out 17 CD's of freeware. (Or 1 CD that has "FreeCiv" but not termcap) The vendors need to do better at creating a "Linux experience". Set up a distro from scratch and imagine how a new user might interact with it for a day. Chances are they'd be frustrated as sh*t.
Moderators: Call it Flamebait, but don't call it funny.
~Hammy
I feel so ... dirty ... for having admitted that in public.
... to more and more complex applications. On occasion I would bump into VB's glass ceiling. I'd also been reading a lot over those years too, so I'd been noticing all the things that I'd been missing out on by having started working with VB instead of a different language.
I started working with Visual Basic back in 1997. I was working part-time while going to school part-time. The job was awful, and so was the pay. In order to improve conditions, I needed a language that would allow me to get small applications up and running in a hurry. Visual Basic allowed me to do that, and thus allowed me to tame some of the insanity that had been present at work by automating tasks that should've been dealt with a decade earlier.
Of course, you can guess where that led
I really, really wish that I'd started with Borland Delphi. But back in 1997, MS was offering VB at a ridiculous discount for academic users, and I was dirt poor. Yeah, I hear you mockingly saying, "the first one if always free (or at least cheap)."
Things have changed somewhat now. About a year and a half ago, I decided to switch exclusively to Linux and *BSD (RedHat and OpenBSD specifically) at home. I love them both and don't intend to use Windows anymore than I have to from now on.
The problem is, there's that programming issue.
I don't have the same job anymore, so the pressure's off, but there's still software that I want to write.
It's ironic this article was posted, because I've just come from the "The Peon's Guide To Secure System Development" article on Slashdot's main page. Before I can completely drop Windows, I need to find a language that offers the following:
1) If I'm going to switch from the Windows world, it's got to be worth it to the best extent: it's got to work on both *BSD and Linux systems.
2) Compiled, not interpretted.
3) Provides some way of creating a solid GUI.
4) Offers some type of event-driven functionality, or a method to provide an equivalent.
5) And it's got to be SAFE for a pseudo/wannabe programmer such as myself.
Point number 5 is critical. I'm a good enough programmer to know that I'd be as dangerous as hell if I were to produce entire applications using C++. Because of that, so far I've limited myself to producing a few simple C++ DLLs that are used by my VB apps.
At this point I have to say I've been incredibly impressed with Ruby. With the FXRuby library, it provides a slick connection to the FOX toolkit, so GUIs are a snap. And all three of those components work flawlessly on both Linux and *BSD. Furthermore, while it's not something I need, work on the "FreeRIDE" Integrated Development Environment is beginning to look really impressive. However, Ruby is an interpreted language. I'm going to continue using it whenever I can, but I still need a language I can compile once in a while.
I haven't found an option that can do all that, so for now, I can't afford a complete switch from Microsoft. Visual Basic makes it too easy to work on their platform. Unless someone knows of an alternative under Linux/BSD....
Whoever designed level 61 in Frozen Bubble is a sadistic bastard.
Is this a setup or what? "This thread sponsered by the Microsoft Marketing department."
/. about their products and how and why you use them is replies that go straight to MS and their marketing dept. I hope I'm wrong.
Sorry, I just can't help but imagine about 90% of all MS questions discussed on
That's awesome that you can run Linux full time. I'm really happy for you and one day I'd like to be able to do the same.
However, I disagree with you on a couple points. 1) Microsoft may be loosing the browser war but I'd hardly say they've lost it. Until I can visit every site and have it work perfectly with a browser other than IE, MS hasn't lost the war. My credit card company won't let me access their online payment site without IE, a handful of sites have functionality that's only available through ActiveX compoments etc. MS got to the top by some questionable (to say the least) methods and they're slipping (long live Mozilla & gang!) but they're still top of the heap.
Secondly, you say that "The reason you can avoind Windows nowadays is...." Please tell me how to get the games I like (not just any games, but the ones I want to play), Quicken (gnucash isn't there yet), photoshop (gimp is cool but it's not Photoshop), all the latest hardware drivers, application development suites, etc. (I could go on) to work in my browser.
- *Unix/Linux
- Macintosh
- Windows
I think that *nix is not a good desktop OS. It might be for the so called uber-geek. But for most of us who want a nice GUI OS, its gotta be something other then *nix (have you counted the number of sub-menu items in KDE's "start" menu).The only choices left are Mac or Windows. Well Macs the sweetest things in the world, but they cost a fortune!. Mainly because their hardware proprietary, and less modifiable.
Wherease windows fits all the requirements, it will run on any hodge-podge mixture of hardware, and is highly configurable (comes at a cost though, it crashes almost every hour).
The little mrs. wants to do picture scanning and photo editing. Almost all the user-friendly apps are on windows, as well as the drivers. The desktop makes no difference to her, but if she can't run the scrapbook program which uses the scanner, printer, and digital camera on a particular OS, there's no way she would use it. So I can spend all my time finding Linux compatible everythings, or just go buy Windows (and reboot all the time). Hence...Windows.
Games, Games, Games, ohhh and did I mention Games?
But not the ones you would think of. It was my 4 year olds software which no gamer in their right mind is porting to to Linux or BSD (Ok maybe I should do it). ANyways its hard to find setup info for Stanly's Adventure and Blues Clues on alt.quake.l337wankers
In addition the main (and I would say ONLY) advantage of Windows over *nix is out of box ready to go titles. While Quake is a dual-OS, not much more is without some significant twidling. I like screwing with the OS as much as the the next guy, but when it comes to hardcore girl on gir^H^H^H^H^H^H^H gaming I want to pop in the disk and GO!
The other minor pain is the proprietary MS stuff. Open Office/Star Office is a HUGE leap, but Internet Explorer problem is not going away. 99% of my surfing is Mozilla and Opera. Its that 1% for job hunting with sites only working on IE thats the (extremely irritating) killer. Its not like a sales site where I can just take my business elsewhere (and I do). This combined with work which runs only on IE for a lot of items *sigh* is a killer (I have to check factory items at home often--IE only as the pages won't load correctly at all in Mozilla and the menus don't work in Opera). Not to mention Ironic since we classify virus security threats HIGH when they run MS-OS and are connected to the internet, Meddium for MS non-internet connection and Low for Non-MS-OS.
Solve the game problem and the flood gates will open. Get out of box support for 80-90% of titles (including the drivers--which are a pain for new video cards--I'm looking at you ATI--your "support" of Open Source doesn't get me fragging any quicker) and this problem will go away. We've got everything else except IE and that is really a minor blip.
Cthulhu for president!
I use Opera for my browsing and mail, I use OpenOffice for text editing and such. I use Psi for instant messaging. A while back I had switched to Mandrake, but I'm back with XP now. A lot of the development tools I use are Windoze only (strangly, they're all Java related (J2ME emulators mostly), and a lot of software for my phones don't work in Windows yet.
I used to be annoyed about some things in Windows that turned about better with Linux/KDE, some other things there were painfull though compared to XP, and I'm glad to be rid of them, but I miss some things from KDE too..
At work, I have a Win98 machine, and an HP-UX machine, by mandate. Can't do anything about that. Although I did abscond with an unused machine and slapped linux on it to mess around with. (And for those slow times when you get sick of solitaire and freecell and want to play something else. But don't tell anybody.)
Home is a different story. I have two linux machines, one running SuSE 7.1 which I use to read e-mail and news and share the internet connection. The second is a dual-boot Win98/SuSE 8.0 machine that I play my games on. I've been managing to get most of the games I play over on the linux side, anymore. WineX is getting pretty good, and of course id and Epic release linux binaries for their products. So mostly I'm all linux.
People chat and play games. That can be done on any operating system. There needs to be a three minute commerical advertising Linux. The IBM commericals don't count. I thinking along the lines of Redhat or Lindows variaties.
Then a couple of the video game companies need to mandate development for only Linux. Then the consumer would be forced to use Linux. Now I can understand what you're thinking now.But, Applejacks! That just isn't fair and is an underhanded tactic.
Yes, I agree. It's used quite a bit don't you think? Every new video game that comes out requires a minimum suggested system of no less than a Pentium IV, 256 megabytes of ram, a 3D accelerator with at least 32 megabytes of ram.
Well, I say we all donate a dollar to get a commerical aired in support of the Linux operating system. Just like the Blender community donated money. We start a paypal account and get some funds gathered. Then we select a couple of very talented animators and designers to design a commerical. Buy up the time on a network like LIFETIME MOVIES, all house wives love this channgel and husbunds are forced to watch it along with the kids. Then the commerical is aired and we get an influx of users and curious consumers.
just my idea... thanks l8r
If Macs didn't cost so much I'd be a happy Macintosh/OS X user right now. The fact of the matter is that I can't afford that great of a PC, and you get *WAY* more bang for your buck buying an Athlon system with components found on sites like Pricewatch than you would dumping that same amount of cash on a Mac. In fact that same amount of cash might not even get you a Mac, and that's even considering the Microsoft tax.
The bottom line is that if Apple stopped selling "designer computers" and allowed their hardware to be cloned again, there would probably be alot more people like me using Macs (and I told Apple as much a while back when they were soliciting the public's opinions on thier products). Don't pin me as a Microsoft lover because that I am definitely NOT. I can't stand Windows, especially when it comes to developing for it. What I am in favor of is less hassles when it comes to getting my other work done, and unfortunately right now it's either Microsoft or Apple. Due to my finanical limitations, I'm stuck with Microsoft. There are a litany of things that keep me from any other desktop UNIX aside from OS X, the biggest item on that list being the X11 Windowing System (*shudder*).
As a side note, and this will probably either get me flamed or modded down (or both), I'm really not interested in Linux/Name-Your-Other-Favorite-Opensource-OS-Here for use on my desktop. Been there, done that. The UNIXes work great for my server tasks, and for that purpose OpenBSD has served me well, but I'm just not interested in the hassle of Unix/Linux on the desktop. Yes, I know Mac OS X is BSD based, yes I know it sits on top of a UNIX core, but admit it, Mac OS X is so much more than just it's UNIX core. Heck, if Linux was even *close* to OS X people would be beating the doors down on the FTP sites and Linux vendors/distros/whatever-they're-called to get it. Mac OS X and the other UNIX are apples and oranges (no pun intended).
- Games - There are so many games out there on Windows. I just ordered "Age of Mythologies" a game written by Microsoft to boot.
- Quicken - I use Quickbooks for my business. Is there anything close in OSS that can match this software's capability?
- MS Dev Tools - I use Homesite for web stuff, Eclipse for Java (though Java development is cool on Linux too) and VisualStudio.NET. I do consulting so and I develop for various platforms, whatever the customer wants!
- Office - I've been unimpressed with OpenOffice and StarOffice in the past, maybe they'll get better soon.
- Look and Feel - I'm very used to the Window L&F and despite various Linux distro's attempts to mimic the L&F it's never quite as good nor better.
I'd like to see the Linux community be more innovative and not just always keep trying to catch up to and mimic the Windows world in terms of desktop computing. If I ever went non-Windows for my main PC I'd consider OS X over Windows. I just wish there was an OS X for Intel hardware instead of having to buy overpriced slick-oid PCs from Steve Jobs.Games are a strong incentive to use Windows. Personally, I use Win2k for recreational purposes and Linux for everything work-related. But give me some good games for Linux (I'm talking full ports here, not "but you can't use the editor" crap), like UT2003 and IL2 Sturmovik plus a program that has similar capabilities to VirtualDub for grabbing and editing video and Windows will get off the disk.
Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.
There are potential solutions to all the issues claimed in your post, you just have not put enough effort into finding them.
As far as your work using windows, how often do you bring up Linux for solutions? Do you suggest linux for support systems, networking etc? When you are given a task do you look to the Open Source community for an answer first? The world ain't gonna change by itself. You want to work in linux? Make it happen, stop waiting around.
The fact is changing your OS is not like changing your underwear. You have to want to change, and be willing to work hard to make it happen.
I can say from personal experience though that making the change is well worth it, if only for the freedom that comes from the platform. The fact that I do not have to commit a felony to use enterprise level software is a big plus.
Changing for me still is not complete and games are something that has kept me in windows at least partially. I even use a MS optical mouse because frankly it has a design that fits my hand well. I will also mention that I use Linux at home and at work. In fact at home I have 7 linux computers to 1 windows workstation.
On those few occasions I require to edit MS documents I use my purchased copy of VMware 3.2 to run Win2K and office. Otherwise I spend 8-12 hours a day on Linux servers and workstations.
Admittedly I am using windows to post this, albeit in mozilla 1.1. However this is my Girlfriends computer, and gettting her over to Linux is my next project. This will also happen.
I understand why you might want to stay in windows. It is safe and comfortable. I meet people all thet time that cannot fathom moving to Linux. They only need to do the minimal amount of work and Bill will take care of the rest for them, or at least that is what he says, the fact it never really works out that way is an inconvenient fact they soon allow themselves to forget. Also if they have to steal software or misuse "evaluation" licenses that is ok too, after all everyone does it right?
I gonna tell you a secret, the grass is really greener on this side of the fence. Over here we get to use the coolest software in the world for free, and get to participate in one of the most amazing intellectual collaborations ever conceived by mankind. It gets even better though because at this party, everyone is invited.
Cheers,
I got a powerbook, and it's AWESOME. I LOVE it. But yes, I still have a desktop at home that runs windows. Why? cuz PC hardware is CHEAP. My desktop is a Pentium III 600 and I got it in trade for a pair of 36gb scsi disks. Those disks I got for $150 for a project I was going to do, but decided to drop.
The Powerbook I got cost over $3000. Thats more than i've EVER spent on a computer in the past, by ten times.
I admit it, i'm a cheap bastard. So I guess that's MY answer. I've stayed with windows because it's CHEAP! And it does work. Not very well, but it does work.
I've been trying to escape from The Evil Empire since 1995. While Microsoft was in the midst of a $200 million ad campaign for Windows 95, I went out and bought OS/2. Then I tried BeOs and then Linux. The result has always been the same:
/z27 0=n /e=mc2 /x /y /z /Linus is god
If you are regular person, and not a computer geek, then Windows is far superior in every area except cost. I've tried to convert to Linux a couple of times but keep running into the same problem -- Using Linux means having to settle for less than what I currently have with Windows.
Lack of software: Linux fails the "Best Buy" test. When you need a specific piece of software, you can't walk into Best Buy and buy it. Spending hours searching the Internet for software and then downloading and installing dozens of packages to see which one (if any) do what you need is strictly for uber-geeks with way too much free time on their hands.
The Gimp is good but it's not Photoshop. Open Office is good, but it's not Microsoft Office. I've tried both and they are 80-90% as good as their well known commercial counterparts. The problem is that missing 10-20% contains some features I really need.
Poor hardware support: There are no Linux drivers for my scanner and video card. (The video card works under Linux but there is no Linux driver that supports the TV-Out function - a feature that I need.) Switching to Linux means settling for less than what I already have -- or chucking perfectly good hardware and buying new.
Hardware support under Linux has gotten better over the years but is still greatly lacking. Very few mainstream hardware vendors provide Linux drivers and so you have to hope and pray that somewhere out there a Linux Geek will write a driver for your hardware.
Functionality and Ease of use: Linux has made great strides in this area over the past couple of years but is still inferior to Windows for the average non-geek.
Right click on the desktop and change your screen resoution. Linux? Nope - you have to jump thru hoops. Ever notice how people are always complaining that a particular Linux program has really ugly fonts? Ever notice that you never hear that complaint from Windows users? That's because the WIndows GUI is actually part of the OS, not a third part application.
I have a small home network (2 computers) that need to share files and printers. With Linux I could never find anyone who could give me a clear, easy to understand explanation how to share files and printers between a Linux machine and a Windows machine. With Windows 2000 and XP, sharing files and printers is easy and virtually automatic, no help needed.
Which brings me to the biggest reasons why Linux is inferior to Windows for the average person:
1. The basic architecture of Linux.
Linux was never intended to be a mass-market consumer OS. It was designed by geeks, for geeks.
You can slap a third party GUI on top of the linux kernel and make if fairly "windows-like" but it does nothing to changes the underlying problems with Linux.
Compare your typical Linux installation with directories called "bin", "dev", "etc", "user" to your typical Windows installation where your operating system's files are in a directory called "Windows", critical system files are in a directory called "system" and applications are typically in a directory call "program files". This may seem trivial, but it says a lot the mindset of the Linux Geek.
2. The Linux Geeks don't get it.
All Windows programs use a standard method of installing software. Click on a program called "setup.exe" and off you go. The software is installed and all the necessary system configuration is taken care of automagically.
Linux Geeks refuse to acknowlege the logic and simplicity of this method and refuse to develope soemthing similar for Linux. Instead, when you bring this up they always say the same exact thing:
Installing software on Linux couldn't be easier -- all you have to do is:
Become root (huh? more geek speak that the average person can't relate to)
Type blarg blarg blarg -x
Then edit all your blarg files and include this line: blarg blarg blah blah
The average person wants simplicity and they want stuff that works without a lot of messing around. Open Souce advocates often say "buying propietary software is like buying a car with the hood welded shut". This is a classic example that the Linux Geeks just don't get it. As far as I'm concerned, the hood of my car might as well be welded shut because there's nothing in there that I want to mess with.
If you like to compile kernels and mess with source code, that's great. But don't tell me that I'm lazy and stupid because I have no desire to be an auto mechanic.
I need Visio, granted Kivio is a decent app as will as Dia but until I can get a app the reads and writes Visio files I'll never complete my OS X migration. Granted I can run Virtual PC but the hassle's of getting files into the Virtual PC "Hard Drive" and also the horrid performance of VPC its not fun. I have started using the RDC client from OS X and that has solved some of the issue's I get better performance since the machine I run Visio from is a Dual Proc server but I still have the issue of getting the files out of email and onto the server just to check and updated diagram. Of course if the damn Visio files would export nicely into jpg, gif or PDF I would be happier also.
My dick is so big, Trump owns it.
Games games games...
Otherwise there would be no need for me to have Windows. I don't want a dual boot system.
The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
Hmmmm ... lets see, I can use Office on OS X. I can SSH wherever I need to. I can have a light kick ass laptop with full userland tools. I can script to my hearts content, and even better its an awsome Java development platform.
... *grin* +1 troll
So, I'd have to say nothing.
Sure, I've used Windows in the past year, but after I switched my main laptop to a PowerBook I've never looked back.
The only thing I miss is a two button mouse
---
"Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that."
I love the timing of this subject. I was just discussing with some buddies of mine the other day that I'd given up trying to use linux as my desktop OS. At least for the forseeable future...
Now before you say it's because I don't have the wherewithal to do it, keep in mind I've used linux since 1993, used 3 brands of distributions (currently debian), contributed mightily to several open source servers and clients, used linux, solaris, and irix exclusively for servers at my ISP, I compile KDE 2.x (among other things) from CVS from scratch for my upgrades, and I continue to use it as a firewall, SMTP server at my house... however, I admit defeat on the desktop front for the following reasons:
1. Quicken vs. Gnucash
My most recent attempt to keep linux as my permanent desktop OS was to convert my three plus years of quicken data to gnucash. And I must admit, gnucash is VERY nice, effective, and probably has a better accounting design than quicken. However, it crashed several times in the import process, did not import many records correctly (thus causing erroneous balances), and is WAY too difficult to compile.
On the upside, gnucash is more extensible (at least for reports), uses double-entry accounting by default, and should work perfectly for anyone whose data is not as extensive/complicated as mine is. But for me, converting is just going to be too time consuming, and a major PITA.
2. Office
Openoffice and star office are both "good". But I defy anyone to get a majority of complicated spreadsheets or documents to work properly on them. Note the key words is "complicated". For this, I require Word and Excel.
3. Flash-based mp3 players
I have both a Cabo flash mp3 player and, most recently, a Ripflash. The cabo uses the parallel port for up/downloading and the software for it does not work properly under wine.
The ripflash uses USB and has a specific driver, so it will likely never work under wine. I even offered to port the Ripflash MP3 manager to linux for Pogo. They were willing to let me until they found out I would only do it (for free anyway) as an open source project.
The long and short of this, however, is that few if any flash based mp3 players will be compatible with linux.
(note: hard drive mp3 players like the archos jukebox generally work fine under linux)
4. Handspring modules
My eyemodule 2 does not have a linux conduit. The eyemodule 1 does, but (AFAIK) the eyemodule 2 linux converter does not exist. Don't know if it would work in wine or not. Also, the mp3 module for handspring requires windows software, unlikely to ever work under wine.
I did get coldsync working (despite a massive lack of documentation) on my Visor, but this was a minor headache (see point 6 below).
5. Internet Explorer
Certain web sites I use for business only work with IE. Yes, I know, I hate it too. I generally use Mozilla win32, and use IE only for those sites. Additionally, I modify the trust zones in IE to minimize my risk while using it. Still feels dirty, but I doubt the institutions I'm talking about are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars redesigning their custom web software (not just html) because me and a few other folks complain it doesn't work with Netscape/Mozilla/whathaveyou.
6. Time
I probably should have put this one first. Time is the major reason linux is not there as a desktop. Yes, you can get a number of things to work in linux that will usually make it at least usable as a desktop system. But how much time do you have to put into it, even as a geek? I know that getting my Sony USB camera required some document reading, a kernel recompile, rebook, no work, kernel patch, a new kernel compile, several reboots, and a lot of cursing to make it work. I did make it work, but it took several hours, and I'm a geek! It worked in about 5 minutes under Windows XP.
In conclusion, I've considered using VMware to make all these things right, but that's just treating the symptoms IMHO.
So instead I asked myself, what do you want in a desktop?
My answer is: "I want the stability, speed, and easy access to open source software linux provides, and access to commercial software and the ease of making things work of windows."
Thus, the answer for me is Mac OS X. I've already asked my wife for a titanium powerbook for Christmas, and I can't wait to once and for all unify my desktop needs under one OS. My $0.02,
Jeff
1) Is it just the 'vocal minority' that favors alternate OSes over Linux and
Yes.
Do people like using Windows? Are games the driving factor? Or is it just 'the right tool for the job?
Games are a fair-sized reason; there just aren't enough new commercial games released for Linux.
Secondly I like XP's desktop better; graphically it's more responsive, and just looks better. Browsing the web is a lot easier, too. The browsers work better and audio and video is unproblematic.
And the main reason I used to use Linux, the stability, isn't so much a problem with Windows anymore. XP/2k, despite the claims made on slashdot, is quite stable.
Windows beats linux for one reason The Windows Clipboard Kicks Ass over Linux. I can cut just about anything from one program to another using windows- Linux only seems to like doing it with text. Sure I know there are some exceptions, but hey - the exceptions should be cases where the program can't do it. People want to be able to copy from mozilla to gimp to OO without having to save to intermediate files. You know the CTRL C/X/V thing :)
I think someone should create a distro which only uses programs that support seamless cutting and pasting images between programs- if the program doesn't support this cutting / pasting - don't include it in this distro.
Don't get me wrong, I am a big linux fan, but i still use windows to do my Universtiy Lab reports as it takes 1/2 the time.
I still use windows because I don't have a girlfriend. If I had one, I couldn't afford to throw all my disposable income at the latest games every week, and I'd be using linux to ensure that I could customize everything just the way she wanted it, while still have my desktop look the way I want for the 5 minutes a day I got to use it.
But, lacking a girlfriend, I have all these cool games that sadly don't work (or don't work properly) under linux.. and thus I have to stay with bouncy old windows...
A popular debate on /. is whether or not Linux is ready for desktop. My view on that is that it depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it, but thats a long debate that I don't really want to go into.
For me, Windows is easy, it has drivers for everything, it runs industry standard packages (Word etc.), you can play games, and my mum knows how to use it.
"XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, use more." - Anonymous Coward
I'm on the 47% windows user because I'm not your typical Slashdot reader. I started reading slashdot after the newsweek article las year. I just started because I wanted to be on the loop on the latest tech trends. I don't have a job on the tech industry, but I am not completely IS illiterate, thanks to Slashdot.
Now, with that said, I use windows 95 because that is what came on the box I bought from Gateway, which still has the original AOL subscription I took from the wrappers. It does everything I want to do. Why get something else? I guess I'll change the day I can't post comments to this site...or the day I get a -1 for using windows!
Las cosas mas triviales se vuelven fundamentales...
Games, friendly set-ups (what the hell does "compile your kernel" mean?), and Graphics(2 and 3d) apps.
New Stuff. If new stuff comes out it generally works with Windows. Sometimes, if it's really popular, it'll be made to work with Linux too but it usually takes a while and it usually doesn't work exactly like the Windows stuff does.
MP3 players
Video cards
Printers
Games
PDAs
Etc.
It all adds up. After a while you start to wonder just how far behind the curve you are if you use Linux.
If Linux had a bunch of new stuff come out for it that Windows didn't support you could bet I'd be using it instead.
TW
This article is fairly loaded with bias, but I'll try to make the point anyway: Use the best tool for the task.
Anyone that tells you a single operating system is the best tool for every task is an idiot. So the question becomes, which operating system is the better tool for most of your tasks?
That's entirely a question for the user: are you going to be doing a lot of Unixishy development? Is there some particular software you need to use to do your daily job? Can you afford a second computer?
I personally think it's silly to limit yourself to one OS if you can afford a second computer. Hell, I have several, most of them headless systems running Linux with a beefy Windows system that's my sole head. I use Exceed to run X apps from my Linux servers.
What keeps me using windows? A few things, first would be that i have software modem... evil things created to make life hard in linux.
:(
sure, i play games too, but the biggest thing that keeps me from being on linux all the time is i can't get on the internet without windows...
On top of that, i have dialup because i can neither afford or recieve DSL or cable (can't afford cable anyway) so until one of those three are cleared, i will be doing my slashdottery in windows
Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
I love linux, I advocate its use for a server, but as far as the desktop is concerned... blah! ( Yes MacOSX is nice, but I dont have a mac, and I dont have the extra 2000 I need to buy one!!!)
:)
Reasons to use windows:
1. Adobe Products - I use them almost every day!
2. Macromedia - I like macromedia!
3. Microsoft Outlook - Forced to use it
4. Microsoft Office - I want to open office docs quick, cuz again I use them every day.
5. Its quick and gotten a lot better at not crashing!
6. All my required apps run on windows. Both for school and work. Games included.
Reasons NOT to use Linux on the desktop:
#1. I DONT LIKE THE WAY IT SELECTS TEXT! HAS ANYONE ELSE NOTICED HOW NICE WINDOWS SELECTS TEXT FOR COPY AND PASTE OPERATIONS?!?! X IS CRAP! EVEN MACS ARE HORRIBLE AT THIS!
#2. I dont care what anyone says, X to me is SLOWWW!!! Brutally slow. I dont wanna hear "well then use fvwm!" screw that! Gnome or KDE are basicaly required, and neither of them runs fast enough for my taste! So, SLOWNESS!
#3. I want a scroll mouse to work without spending hours to get it working ( and to this date I have not got it working!)
#4. IE IS SOOO much better than netscape or mozilla. Lets face it, IE is the shit as far as web browsers go. Anything less is boarder line useless.
Those are just SOME of the reasons. Linux is great for developing software, running servers and actually knowing whats going on... but for productivity in a business environment and ease of use which YES I do expect from a desktop.. its not even close!
I would love to use linux as a desktop.. but I think to ever reach that point X must go.. If Apple ever ports OSX to the intel, it will be the day I say GOODBYE to windows
keep my windows world sane...
The first thing is Linux drivers. If I'm on a server where things don't change every few months and video is unimportant, then Linux is great. However, video drivers for linux are inadequate. Furthermore, the amount of RTFMing required to get everything set up is fine for a hobbiest, but there are times when I just want to get things done.
2. I might be tempted just to have a second computer to do most everything in Linux, but that which is important to me from Linux is in Cygwin. Linux has no advantage on desktop apps because the most important ones (vi, grep, cvs) work on winderz.
Okay, so they don't all use Cygwin, but they've been ported. If I need to use an X app, I have xfree86.
Once that was developed, there was just no reason for me to fiddle around with linux on my desktop.
In my case, it varies a bit:
At work, it's the fact that it's easier for me to stick to a single machine at the office for things like web-browsing, and despite the fact that my boss is very open about me bringing my RedHat laptop into the office, and even connecting it to the network, all of my "real" work is on the company's Win2k box (availability of ColdFusion Studio being one of the main deciding-points). I've gotten to the point where I ssh into the laptop with Cygwin from the company box to do my "personal" browsing and such, but only if I remember to do so (just laziness there, I guess).
At home, it's the fact that the laptop's internal WinModem isn't recognized by RedHat (yet; at least as far as I know). We've got a Win98 box (almost exclusively used by wife and daughter now) that had linux on it until I needed to cannibalize the machine for the second hard-drive it had, but I was the only one to use the linux installation.
Partially (at home), I'm spoiled by the T-1 at the office, and really can't imagine going back to dial-up without serious painkillers;
Partially (at home) it's because I'm not the main user of the currently-Win98 box, and don't know that we could replace it with a linux installation without seriously cramping computer-use;
I suspect my daughter wouldn't care what the OS was on the home-machine, as long as she could play her games on it - but as far as I'm aware, "Putt Putt Joins the Circus" (and other toddler/preschooler games that are a mainstay for her) won't run under WINE, and have no linux equivalents.
For the sake of a peaceful household, I tolerate the Win98 box, but that's about it...
Internet Explorer was unable to link to the Web page you requested. The page might use standard HTML or CSS.
GDB is an excellent debugger, but I believe a graphical interface just makes the debugging session more productive. Debugging low level code with gdb is not fun. Has any one tried multithreaded apps?
Some people may like DDD, but if I wanted to inflict torture to myself, I much prefer banging ze head againt ze wall.
Kdevelop and others have their niche. But just aren't robust enough yet.
Yes MsDev keeps me tied to Windows.
1. My wireless adapter won't work on Linux, so I have no choice when I want to use the interenet. It's a Linksys WUSB11 v2.6, if anyone can help my emails pilot1_ace@hotmail.com 2. Most games and software are for Windows, sure you can run them in Linux with WINE, but not all of them work, and joysticks and Linux don't get along that well. 3. Windows 2000 it self is almost as stable as Linux, sure it has way too many memmory leaks, but i've NEVER been able to crash W2k itself, sometimes a program it's running will crash but never W2k, even if I kill explorer.exe I can relaunch it and everything works fine. If I could get the 'net to work on RedHat Linux 8 I would switch to Linux without a second thought, but I can't so i'll just dual boot for now, until I do.
I use MAC OS X on my primary machine, however...
My lab is filled with inexpensive PCs because it's much easier to find data acquisition hardware with Windows drivers. National Instruments supports Linux, AIX, Solaris, Windows, Mac OS, OS X (I have a LV7 beta disk for OS X on my desk right now), and Linux. Unfortunately, they don't have drivers for anything other than their GPIB cards on any of the platforms except Windows.. It's frustrating and I'd switch to something else, if I could get the hardware issues sorted out..
I used to have a far longer list but most issues have been taken care of within the last year, however I still would like to see an *.exe equivilent. I think that until that happens getting joe user to swich will never happen. Most users of windows I know arn't brave enough to switch the default installation folder in a windows based program, nevermind asking them to .config/make/make install ...etc not to mention search for a hundred rpms.
Secondly is application quality. OO is not office, I would love it to be, but it isn't. I am still hopeful that these problems will be taken care of soon.
I'm not a high end Geek, got into a bit later. I'm 33 and I need the money. I'm an Access developer because Access comes very cheap to non-profits (http://www.techsoup.org/DiscounTech/default.asp?c g=home&sg=dt&visit=1)
where I've spent most of my working life, and because it's a decent product. And frankly, it's easier to get a mid-range job when you have Windows skills.
And yeah, games are a good reason too.
And frankly, Wintel is easy, and cheaper than Apple products. Linux is, let's be realistic, just starting to come into it's own. It's a great server, but there's tons of stuff for Wintel, and not so much for Linux yet.
That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere
There are plenty and varying reasons that I continue to use Windows. While I've no problem using other OS such as BSD or Linux, application and hardware support is often a deciding factor. For many people who own a computer, bleeding edge hardware is unsupported in other platforms. And then comes the applications and the GUI. True that we have enough softwares in the open-source area to fill in about every gap possible. But is it up to date? Supports stuff that is probably available only in Windows? There are still numerous reasons why people continue to use Windows instead of other operating systems.
One of the brought up reasons people use Windows is for games. This is true since I have quite a number that may not be supported under Linux. Sure we have WineX to use but how often do we end up having to get the update so our favorite just-released game is supported? It seems to me that it takes more effort to have Linux or *BSD be a reliable gaming computer.
As more and more hardware come out with USB and USB2 interfaces, question still remain as to whether this so-and-so hardware is supported under Linux. And if it isn't, is it worth getting still? Logitech, notorious for killing support on not-that-old hardware, still has little support under Linux. Matrox, known for its superior 2D quality and great multi-monitor support, has moderate support under Linux. Even scanners that work well under Windows may not work in Linux because manufactures are reluctant to support other operating systems other than Mac and Windows.
Our biggest problem is getting companies to support alternative OSes. Unless they help the BSD or Linux community out, we won't be seeing up-to-date support that Windows have. And the only way to use an alternate OS effectively is to simply craft the computer with supported hardware. And even that is limiting to some older generations of devices. Will these alternative OSes be able to compete with MacOSX or Windows? Well, what kind of hardware is inside?
~ Old Warriors Society
Last time geeks, last time.
Their is NO software worth a nat's ass on Linux.
It's all nerd shit. No serious software (video editing, music software, graphics ect) No games! Hey, that counts! And no support.
The Open software ideal is a joke. Why would I trust a project worth tousands of dollars in time to BETA code? Really. Think about it!
Get windows 2000 pro and quit bitching
I can finally talk about this without being even slightly offtopic
The main reason for using Windows is the user-friendliness which is still *far* above any linux I have seen (haven't seen 'em all of course).
I love developing in Unix, could never do work in Windows. But besides the games and media files (which is also an important factor) it is the usability that kills Linux. I've posted this before and I'll say it again: I, as a CS PhD student, can NEVER get linux installed or configured quickly and painlessly. Somehow the large amounts of FAQs that are out there are NOT geared to novices and tend not to say the most obvious things that I need to know. They might go on about fancy configurations and problems, but the actual URL example or config line to use is NEVER there.
I think there is a general approach to users in Linux "It was hard to write, it should be hard to use". While it might be less insulting to the user intelligence, this makes Linux unusable by the novices (and I don't mean Joe Doe here, I mean a CS major, someone marginally more knowledgable with computers...)
Anyways, I could rumble on and on about the particular examples how in Windows I can usually guess the right option by right-clicking on something or going to a menu. And how in Linux (even after you have installed X through a very, very painful process) it is still impossible... Oh, well, I hear Mandrake is more for newbies than other distribution... I'll be trying it soon :).
I'm 100% Linux at home, but at work I've got one linux box and one windows box. I spend 80% of my time on the windows box, the rest on the linux box. The biggest thing that is stopping me from adopting windows at work is the fact that we've put a lot of our business data in windows only apps. It's not that equivalents programs don't exist, in most cases they do. In many cases the cutover cost would be prohibitive.
For example, we use an off the shelf app called "HEAT" to track tickets from the call center into our development shop. There are plenty of open source equivalents (like say bugzilla), but our data is in HEAT. HEAT has a web-app called iHEAT, but I'd have to convince management to use it. There is no hope of changing away from HEAT. We use MKS Source Integrity for source control. If we upgraded to the Enterprise edition, we could use this on linux, but the standard edition still appears to be Windows only. There is no hope of us changing this tool either. I'm guessing Evolution now is interoperable with MSExchange, so that's probably not a show-stopper any more. I think MSExchange has a web access layer we could use too. It is, of course, critical for drop-in 100% interoperability here from Linux.
We're an Oracle shop and we do our development in TOAD and the Oracle tools. The latter have linux support in the newer versions (so when we convert it'll be OK), but the TOAD equivalents (TORA was farthest along last time I looked), are still catching up. I can do some work in a plain text editor (JEdit rocks).
Running RH 8.0 (RH since 6.2), and very happy with the apps already offered... and wishing that more people would stand up for principle instead of convenience.
"We must still have chaos within in order to be able to give birth to a dancing star." --Friedrich Nietzsche
I knew this day would come. Slashdot has been skirting the ultimate question everyone here has an opinion on, namely "Do you think Windows sucks?". This is the closest brush yet to that query and as a result this site has been Slashdotted itself.
Anyway, games are the main reason why most people use Windows but they aren't mine. I don't play many games anymore and the ones I do try tend to be crossplatform like bzFlag and Quake.
I use it simply because I'm an interface bigot who still finds the Unix/Linux file structure and GUI options far too archaic and complicated. I can accept Windows' many faults because most things work right out of the box without the need for much configuration. I'd switch to Linux in a heartbeat if it were made friendlier for grandmothers and also developers like me who have better things to do than endlessly tweak our boxes.
Most of my /. reading is done here at work on a 64 meg NT 4 machine. At home I enjoy my games on my tricked out XP rig. I use my imac for things that I regard as "real" work. The machine in my bedroom runs Beos Pro and it serves me up my mp3s and internet radio. I have another machine that I toy with Linux. The Knoppix CD and Movix2 distros are simply amazing. My router is driven by a Freesco floppy. Linux alone! I cannot do that. It is still very very rough. It is great to tinker with though.
While this question appears to be directed towards the "closet Windows users" (of which I am not a part; I openly admit my Windows usage), I'll throw my 2 in, nonetheless.
;)
I have lots of reasons for running Windows.
For starters, I KNOW Windows. I don't have to put any thought into what I'm doing, and whether or not what I'm doing is going to harm the system. I know my way around, and can get done what I want to get done quickly.
It's stable as all hell. Despite the jokes, speculations, and lies perpetuated here, and elsewhere on the Internet, Windows is not nearly as bad as it was 5+ years ago. Windows 2000 and XP are so rock solid, you'd be hard-pressed to crash them ON PURPOSE (without doing something obvious, like ripping a non-hot-swappable piece of hardware out while the system is running, or putting known-bad hardware in -- basically, things that would crash any OS
I have a wife, and soon-to-be-2 kids. While the kids may be able to pick up Linux easily enough, they're still kids, and they'll want from a computer what any kid wants from a computer: games. While I, too, like to play games, there is a not-so-surprising lack of kids' games under the Linux platform. My wife, of course, is not interested in learning anything new. She wants to check her e-mail, browse the web, chat on ICQ, and listen to MP3's. She's not interested Linux in the least.
Windows is my livelyhood. I make a living building, configuring, and fixing Windows boxes. I've spent a greater portion of my lifetime learning Windows, and to drop all of that now to pick up Linux would be foolish. It would be a great number of years before I knew as much about Linux as I do about Windows, and would make a viable enough member of the IT workforce to make as much money working with Linux as I do now working with Windows. So, I use Windows in my day-to-day life to keep my skillset sharp, so I can be the best damned IT guy I can be. (Before anyone says it, YES, I realize adding Linux to my skillset would help me out, and I'm working on that, but for now, it's Windows for me).
I do like Linux. I'm actually currently installing Linux on and old box I just put together. I like playing around with it. It's a challenge (one that I can't find using Windows), and it certainly serves a purpose. It's just not ready for prime-time in my household.
I would love to abandon Windows 98 and go to Linux. I can't yet for the following reasons:
So there you have it. Another story about a person involuntarily stuck with Windows.
I know you're not ripping on Mac, but:
WC3 for Mac
"With Warcraft III, we are doing our first simultaneous shipment for Mac OS X, Mac OS 9, and Windows on the same CD."
Plus the Mac version has a World Editor
For all of my personal machines and the notebook I use at work, I use linux ( Redhat 8.0 ) but my office is almost entirely a win2k network. Since my arrival I have slipped in a few few linux server, plus linux on my notebook and have slowly planted the open source seed in all the right (upper management) places. With microsucks new subscription based extortion...i mean ...licensing policy. My case suddenly has become much stronger and we have got the greenlight to create a plan to replicate windows services and deploy it everywhere...from the server room right down to the desktops. The only real stick in the spokes so far seems to be exchange and Blackberry servers. Hopefully we will have those resolved soon.
- and small change got rained on with his own 38
www.buzzmachines.com
I pine for a MacOSX version.
I stay on Windows because all programs I use, all games I play, and all software I bought is for Windows, and Windows only.
And there is nothing wrong with Windows -- no matter what the anti-MS nazis keep yelling. What it does, it does well, and I happen to like the interface. And when I do want to change that, there is LiteStep.
Sure Windows is far from perfect, but untill there comes out a perfect emulator that allows me to use all my software in Linux, as fast or faster than on Windows, I'm staying with my current OS.
Sure I like open source, but I use Opera instead of Mozilla simply because I like Opera a lot better, and I use Windows instead of a Linux distro because every single app I use is for Windows only.
Because corp IT standardized on MS Exchange for mail services, and MS Office is the productivity standard, we all have to have at least MS on the desktop. (Many of us have multiple boxes or dual-boot our PCs.) So, if I need to bring work home with me or RAS in, I have to have MS & Office at home. Also, since the customers I support run MS, I have to run my apps on MS and exchange MS documents with them.
I always have Linux and/or Solaris boxes available to me in every location, and use them whenever possible. But MS will be hard to really get rid of for several years yet. (Kind of like how it took many years for Windows to get rid of MS-DOS!)
It all comes down to Microsoft's development tools. They waste anything Linux has to offer.
.NET development environment, I can whip up a web application that pulls information out of a database and displays it in a nicely formatted table with about 5 clicks and without looking at one piece of code.
.NET, and you'd be right, but how does that compare to spending a couple of weeks developing an application versus a month or more with Linux? Then consider the testing and rollout phases. If huge amounts of the code has already been written and tested before you even open your development environment, you're substantially farther ahead in the game. Developers are going to choose Windows over and over because Microsoft's lure is very enticing.
In the
Now, you might argue that it costs a lot of money the purchase Windows, SQL server, and Visual Studio
Ultimately, consumers purchase and use Windows over Linux because it offers a complete picture. It works, there are more applications, and there is more support. Consumers realize they have to pay upfront, but realize the benefits down the road when they are way ahead of their Linux counterparts.
If Linux really wants to compete on the desktop or server level, then Linux really needs to get moving on a competitor to the development tools.
1. Games, games and ... more games ... can you say pretty working fonts without jumping through 1000 hoops?
2. Fonts
3. Flash, and all the other ones related
4. Media player (insert favorite player here) supports easily most formats available on the net
5. Few weird errors on the UI side
Background .... used Mandrake at work as a desktop for 1.5 years, used Solaris for just about as long as desktop, I run my home linux box with Gentoo linux ... which btw rocks.
My 2 cents.
Fourty-two!
Currently the applications I am missing are:
1.) Full featured DVD Authoring. - Admitedly I do this on MAC OS X right now, but this is because there is no software, commercial or otherwise that can do this on linux right now. And yes I do have my eye on dvd-create and I have made a few DVD with dvdauthor. I would hardly call the end result full featured.
2.) MS Money - Does not run under Codeweavers CrossOver Office product, which I did buy. I know there was a recent report of Quicken being able to run under CrossOver Office on Linux but Quicken != MS Money. I have over 6 years of MS Money data. Before you say that I can export/import that into Quicken, learn something about what you are talking about. The export functionality does not support all the features of the product.
3.) Decent CD burner Application - I burn ALOT of CD's. I've tried them all on Linux and none of them work as smoothly as say Nero or Prassi on Windows. I use Prassi myself. Yes I've tried kcreate, xcdroast and so on. Why heck, I can never get cdrecord to record any faster than 4x, no matter what the speed capability of my drive or blanks. And my name is in the man page!
4.) A sensible GUI file manager. I've looked at Nautilus and probably a few others. On my Redhat 8.0 desktop right this minute I can not do a simple search of files by right clicking on a directory.
This one will be kind of tricky for the zealots to comprehend so listen to what I do, A LOT. I have about 20,000 MP3 files and I buy at least 2 or 3 CD's a week, all get converted to MP3. When loading up my portable mp3 player, I like to open a WinXP explorer window so I can see the root of my mp3 directory, right click on it and pick search. I pick a date of the last 2 months or so and *.mp3 and it gives my a new window with my recent mp3s. I interactively pick enough (while the size of my pick updates in real time) mp3s to file my Compact Flash card, then I drag them to the Compact Flash. Seems simple doesn't it. Try doing this under Linux without writing your own application. Yes, I know how to use the shell, Nautilus, find and all other relevant tools. None of them make the process I just described very easy. This is simple as pie under Windows.
4.) Still flaky applications (although this is better than no applications) - Specifically, the only decent PIM app is Evolution, I just loaded the released a few days ago 1.2 version and it is still riddled with bugs and hangs 4 or 5 times a day on my system. Matter of fact I have a icon on my toolbar which does a kill -9 on all the evolution processes and restarts it, that's how often it happens. This really stinks if you're like me and your productivity depends on being able to access your email, tasks, calendar, etc.
I guess this list isn't all that bad, considering just a year ago it included a whole bunch more things that I needed my Windows for. When I switched to this Linux thing in 1995 I said I'd give it 10 years to come out with the applications I needed. Well,.. I've got three years to go. We'll see what happens.
--Aaron
Windows. If I could live without it, I would in a heartbeat. The only REAL reason is due to the Cisco VPN client. I work at customer sites, and having to dial in is painful when downloading patches and technotes... Other than my laptop, all my home machines (SUN,SGI,HP) Run a version of unix. And then there's the FreeBSD Machine. That's MY Machine. I'm waiting for slackware to release 9.0 before I drop that on.
Myself, I'm not a Windows user. I have three computers at home: A dual-Athlon workstation running RedHat 7.3, a dual-P3 server running RH7.3, and a Mac Powerbook which is dual boot w/ MacOS and YellowDog Linux.
.EXE format. Don't forget the .ASF and .WMA media files. The average user is not going to want to compile mplayer, making sure to have all the dependancies compiled and installed beforehand, and then setup their email client to use mplayer on these file types - They want it to work out of the box. RedHat not including MP3 support in RH8 is a step in the wrong direction.
I believe that most people are hung up in Windoze due to three major factors.
1) Even though OpenOffice or StarOffice has very good MS file filters, they aren't always perfect - and most people, especially business users are going to require 100% MS Office compatability - not 80% or 90%.
2) Email attachments. Especially all the funny "joke" and humor programs that are in
3) This one may sound silly, but I believe many people are holding out simply because Linux does not run Windows applications off the shelf. Yes, I know about Wine, WineX, and Codeweavers. All of these do a very good job, however this is another tool that the use needs to install and configure - i.e. it doesn't work "out of the box" after a Linux distro install. Many users don't have specific Windoze apps that they must run right now, but they want to be able to run them should a new program on the CompUSA shelf all of a sudden look interesting.
I think that items 1 and 2 are more important than item 3. If a Linux distro could have support for all the Windoze media types (as browser plugins and as email attachment associations), and achieve perfect Microsoft Document conversions, I think Linux will REALLY start to take off as a desktop OS. As for me, I've been M$ free since 1997 - and I haven't looked back since.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
We're not interested in you trying to sell us Windows.
We're only interested in better understanding the real, meaningful reasons some people still use Windows.
I was managing to cut the list of reasons to keep Windows down, and had got it down to:
a) the occasional game
b) my digital camera
c) the occasional app which needs Windows (some obscure subtitle converter or something like that).
d) Many Faces of Go (which is a lot better than GnuGo - yeah I know it's expensive but I like it).
Then unfortunately I bought a DVD burner and it's not supported by FreeBSD, so that's pushed me up to 5 reasons.
In fact I have one computer running Linux because my printer is supported by Linux but not FreeBSD. I suppose I could nix (ha ha) the Linux and put the printer on the Windows machine, but that seems so wrong.
You may have guessed that I'm a rabid FreeBSD fanboy. Oh well, at least I don't try to ram it down anyone's throat.
USE FREEBSD NOW! IT'S SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN LINUX!
Oops.
graspee
I use windows b/c I play games, I do video editing, download from my digital camera, type up documents, view spreadsheets, use photoshop, program in C/C++ and assembly. I don't have the money right now for an Apple, which can do all these. So I tried out nearly 8 flavors of linux. At first there was a steep learning curve; getting it installed! Then they streamlined that. Then getting my hardware setup; then they streamlined that. But I've always had problems installing apps. I tried to install quake 3 demo, I never got it working. I tried to run wolf3d demo, never got it working. I had to search for libraries and set permissions. Screw that, when I want to play a game, my attention span for computer tweaking goes to zero.
Basically, if I had the money. I'd get an apple. If I had more free time, I'd work with linux to recognize my printer, get my SQL database working with my apache. But since I have x86 hardware and copies of windows...
What's keeping me on Windows?
That's pretty much the biggest issues that keep me on Windows.
NO CARRIER
What do you do with nero/discjuggler CD images in Linux? These formats are very popular for releasing Dreamcast software (homebrew too!). A usenet query about this went unanswered.
Last time I checked, xmame sucked, mame32 had a really great GUI - is it still like that? what about MESS? And all those emulators that don't have linux equivalents, and cowering's goodtools...
A lot of what I say may sound like blasphemy to the average Linux zealot Slashdot user. This is fine. Just remember, you asked :P. My desktop PCs run either Linux or FreeBSD, so this is more of an educated guess than why I use Windows.
People stay on Windows because:
It came with their computer
Most people aren't savvy enough to install their own operating system. Yes, OS installations are horribly easy now compared to just a couple years ago. This doesn't matter. These are the people with the blinking 12:00's on their VCRs (yeah, they still own VCRs you snobs). Though I'm certainly an elitist bastard, this doesn't mean that all of these people are stupid. They just have better things to do. They don't want to contemplate their choice of OS, they don't even care. They just want their computer to work, do what they need it to do, and get out of the way so they can play with their kids, go outside, or enjoy a hobby. You know, things we (as system administrators and technology gurus, if just to the rest of our family) have been promising them for years they will be able to do with the extra time the computer will save them.
It's too different
Most people don't have problems with the way Windows behaves from an end-user standpoint. Even if they did, moving to one of the Free Software (beer, speech, whatever) alternatives isn't going to get them any usability improvements.
No, they're just going to have to re-learn how to do the exact same things with different programs that, at best, are one-off clones. Most likely they work completely differently. They don't care that the Free program can do the exact same thing, perhaps even better than the Windows program. They don't know how to use this feature, therefore to them it doesn't exist. The sorry state of Free Software documentation in most cases doesn't help matters.
It's not supported
If Mozilla is so great why doesn't my bank let me use it to access their site? The answer to this question is not because the bank is stupid. The bank works fine. They saw it working just a few minutes ago in IE on Windows. You can't convince the user that you are right and the world is wrong. Even if you can, it doesn't help your cause any. They need the bank, they don't need Free Software.
These brief examples aren't the only reasons people use Windows. Hell, I even heard once from this crazy hobo that some people like Windows. That may not be true, but there's more than just a monopoly that's keeping it on the vast majority of users' computers.
How can you help?
Simple. Give users a real reason to switch. Money alone isn't the reason for a home user to switch, people buy their Windows license with their computer. Saving a few bucks on that license against the price of a $1000+ machine isn't worth their while if it keeps them from doing even one thing they really want to do. Freedom? Psh. Look at what's flowing through Congress lately.
If you want to help, make something that's Free Software and is truly cool. Make the Windows users lust after our neat new toys, rather than vice versa. Make something that lets users get more done, or that is more entertaining, or that is easier to work with. Under-the-hood enhancements don't count. End users don't care about Netfilter or Soft Updates. These things are definitely cool in their own way, and certinaly necessary, but don't expect them to get Free Software on the desktop any faster.
The alternative? Make it so easy for users to switch that the monetary or freedom benefits can win out over their practical concerns that they won't be able to do as much. This is the road that is taken more, but it's also more difficult. You're handing the key to your success to Microsoft and saying "here, just don't do what we're doing and you win." The ability to integrate with Windows is cool and currently necessary, but basing everything around this almost ensures you'll always be one step behind.
Off the record (:P), I've gotta say that I don't care too much. I like my Linux and FreeBSD desktops. I'm used to Vim. I'm used to Fluxbox or WindowMaker. I'm happy in an xterm. I can get everything I want to get done currently done in a Free OS. The Crossover plugin keeps me from missing out on a lot of cool stuff on the web. If only it worked on FreeBSD...
Game... blouses.
I use Mozilla on Linux throughout the work day and
to read slashdot, but I also am forced to use
Windows and Lotus Notes by my employer for official
mail and access to many other things. Trying to
convince a large corporation to get off Windows
nearly impossible. I suspect people are forced
to continue to use Windows on their desktops for
work, and of course most people visit Slashdot while
at work. Seems obvious to me...
nt = No Taurens
DirectX
This is my sig, there are many like it, but this one is mine...
because floppy disks are so bad now-a-days that i cannot make a debian rescue disk to install with.
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
I bought my new computer to replace my dead P200 and my parents' P120 wasn't cutting it. So I picked up a system, and they wanted to put an OS on it. I went with XP and I haven't had a ton of problems with it now that I have it set up the way I want. I've had a few bizarre crashes, but nothing that I couldn't easily recover from. I installed Redhat 7.2 on a 20 gig partition which I haven't really touched. Basically, I use my computer for gaming and web browsing. Since my computer is already booted into XP for gaming, it seems silly to shut it down and reboot just to browse in Linux when I have mozilla on windows as well. A nice side-effect of installing Linux is that with GRUB, if I don't shut down windows properly, it doesn't even realize :) Boot up and it just goes...
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
I've tried linux many times. It started with redhat 5.whatever, and I've basically tried all the redhat versions, a couple mandrake ones, and lycoris.
Anyway, what keeps me coming back to windows is usually the speed at which I can do things. Navigating directories is a prime example. In windows, I double click my computer and it's there instantly. I haven't found a gui program for linux that's that good. When I switch directories, it's instant. This can take only a split second longer in linux, but I notice it. Also, the directories in windows are a lot more intuitive and easier to read. They have real words and are capitalized. I don't have to scan a list of 3 or 4-letter abbreviations that all look the same at first glance.
Other things that keep me coming back is how easy it is to watch movies and use IM programs. For linux, to watch a divx, I usually have to use the command line and figure out which input and output options to use and type it all up. If there was a movie player in linux that had the power of mplayer and a nice stable powerful gui like windows media player, I'd be set.
As far as IM programs go, I've tried most of them. And probably the thing that bugs me the most is file transfers. It rarely ever works. I remember it used to work decently with licq a couple years ago, but it doesn't work so often before. I use icq and msn all the time and I need to send school-related files all the time to people that don't know how to use ftp. I haven't found an msn client that will send files at all. Even trillian working through wine crashes when I want to send or receive a file. Another thing that bugs me about the IM programs is their general lack of integration with KDE, which I like to use. Some of them dock nicely in the panel and don't take up a spot in the taskbar, but many others don't. When you use both msn and icq all the time, it sucks to have them both sitting in the taskbar when they're just as well off in the tray.
I'm a person that likes to use a gui for everything. However, I also like to get things done efficiently. Somehow, the fact that I can navigate directories faster on the command line faster than I can with konqueror irritates me. In windows, it's instant, and there's no way that I could do it faster in a console.
Other than these small things, I like linux. Pretty much everything else I do could be accomodated by linux (except maybe converting to and from Word and Excel XP reliably). I don't really play many games, and the one that I do play often (good old space cadet pinball) probably works with wine anyway, so that's not an issue with me. I listen to music, watch southpark episodes and movies, use msn and icq, and make spreadsheets and word files.
Anyway that's my 2 cents. I've been trying to use linux for all my needs for about 5 years and I haven't been able to switch completely yet. And if I can't switch completely, it's not much use to use linux for some things, and windows for others. It's inefficient to dual boot. So that's why I still use Windows, despite great efforts at using only linux.
Portent
I keep using Windows because of the EULA. Specifically:
5.23a - In the event that Leasee begins using another OS, Microsoft reserves the right to come into Leasee's home and immediately harvest all of Leasee's organs with a rusty spoon.
'nuff said
jrjBlog
If not for Solidworks, I would be able to use Linux exclusively.
Why do I still use Windows?
Its fast, its easy, its simple.
I am big into computers, but they are not my life. I want the ability to install and unistall applications and hardware quickly. I don't want to waste my time learning the layout of a config file so I can edit it in nano.
The Windows interface is pretty uniform making it simple and easy to adapt to new programs. With QT/GTK and who else knows what I get a wide variety of nonsense to navigate in linux.
Applications seam together. I can copy something from one program and paste it into Word. Double click it from Word to edit it. Simple, fast, and easy.
I'd rather use mediamatch jukebox (no i don't like it thats why its my example) than mess with lame, xmms, recording software, and who knows what else. I want to get it done fast and simple. PERIOD.
Commercial companies care about ME. They want to make my exerience the best possible. With OSS software I'm not sure what their goal is sometimes? Make sure there 6,000 options scattered all over so i can't find the 3 that matter to me?
BLOAT! Personally, I think OSS software has tons of bloat. I mean why have QT and GTK and like 5 different libraries that all do the same thing? Plus its confusing to have 5 different style interfaces!
An IM client. Lately Yahoo is the only decent IM client. Which is sad. The linux IM clients seem to be especially bad as they are all kind of ugly or have big buttons all over i never push and therefore wasting space.
Files. c:\windows = system files. c:\program files = programs. c:\documents and settings = settings. SIMPLE. Winows gives me a desktop and makes virtual likes to My Documents et al stored away in my user settings. SIMPLE. Files are not burried all over.
Windows explorer is still the best way to browse the files on your computer. Nautalis is close but there is something about explorer that just makes it easier to use.
STABILITY. I must admit i run on really decent hardware and drivers before i say this. Windows never crashes for me. Some poor programming has crashed on my before but thats about it. Crashes have decreased 100 fold since the days of windows 98. Additionally its easier to find mature programs for windows in many areas. In linux, to get the latest features you might have to deal with an occasional core dump. I think techies are just in denial that Microsofts security and stability have surpassed their beloved OSS.
Basically, when I'm on my computer I don't want to waste my time rebuilding the kernel and fiddling with installing programs I need. I wanna get my work done, packed, and wrapped with a ribbon on the top. So I can get on with my life. Check my email, play a game, or IM my girlfriend to tell her i'll be right over.
The $150 it cost me for Windows is worth the time I save. If I have trouble I dial Microsoft and vent. Besides my computer cost me $2000+, whats a measily $150?
this discussion turned out: "Use Windows, or use Linux". For most people Linux just isn't ready as a desktop OS, even if the apps are there.
But there's NO EXCUSE not to use a Mac. And, no, they're not as expensive as everyone thinks. You can get a really fast iBook or eMac for $999. The apps, are there, stability, UNIX, ease of use and power.
It doesn't matter if you can get a Super-Athlon 2.6 Ghz at half the price of a PowerMac if the OS sucks.
My explanation why Windows is so popular, that noone has mentioned so far, is that people pirate software. A lot. It's extremely easy to find all kinds of windows apps/games without paying for them. Why do you think the filesharing apps are so popular? You can get the latest game within an hour and don't pay a dime for it.
Ciryon
RMS.
I use Linux full time at work and at home. I bought Win4Lin when it first came out to stop my need to reboot whenever I needed Quicken or TaxCut. Those two are the only reason I use Windows and unfortunately I doubt that they will ever be ported natively to linux. Other than those two, all my other business is done in linux.
My 6yr old daughter's machine runs Windows full time since the only thing she uses it for is the JumpStart educational games. I'm sure they run fine on wine, but I do legally have a copy of windows, and I don't need to waste time with Wine just to make a point.
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
First, when I am giving a computer at work it has windows. Second, I am an engineering and there are very limited programs developed and supported on linux. This is why I am forced and stuck using windows by no choice of my own.
Here's why I "still" use Windows, even though I love Linux and Solaris and have used Unix since 1979. Office and Outlook: Wine and Evolution don't offer the 100% interoperability I need for work. Palm applications: The PC "halves" of Palm applications exist and work. Easy, client based SPAM filtering. No need to be a Procmail or sendmail expert. Ad filtering. Super easy with AdSubtract and several other PC tools. You have to set up Squid or Privoxy on Linux. Trillian. Seems simpler than Gaim. USB support. The truth is, more stuff works on PCs, especially things like disks that require USB2. With everyone I work with using Windows, it would be encumbent on me to be 100% compatible with them. I just don't have the cycles to figure out how to do that. There are too many complex Word, Excel, PPT, Visio files I need to be able to quickly edit or view. There are VPN clients that only work on Windows, and the IT staff has no time to figure out a solution for Linux. Laptops. Maybe using VMware, but that's it. Printer support. It's gotten better, but try using a Brother MFC on Linux. Can you say, "No driver"? I love Linux, but I can't spend time everyday dealing with incompatabilities between Linux and Windows applications. If I had a superfast PC with a hunk of RAM, I might consider Linux as the Primary OS with W2K as a VMware guest.
I can do it for about 35k a year. I can only assume I'll be working from home.
Seriously, I think the idea could work, but it would really have to be done by games enthusiasts. The sort of people that know that Linux supports a parallel port-hacked SNES controller. If the site was just an evangelical site I don't think the momentum would last.
I assert ownership of all trademarks and copyrights on this page.
I used Red Hat from 1997-2001. It replaced Win 95 for stability reasons. It was great for writing a thesis (LaTex), numerical programming (xemacs w/ F90), email, web, etc.
I got a new job in an office environment, and found visual basic w/ excel very useful for creating an application that other people have to use. Win2K took care of stability (for my purposes). Price isn't much of a concern, since it is minimal compared to the cost of my time. Document sharing editing is much easier when all are using the same setup.
At home, I use Win2K, b/c it had much better support for my AllInWonder card when I got it. Also is more likely to be plug and play for all of the gadgets that get plugged into it.
I can see this topic is going to go crazy, it already has, but I gotta say my piece, even if nobody is going to read it in the giant pile of crud.
I run Win2k and Mandrake (the newest one).
Primarily though I use win2k, and here is why. It is stable, it is easy, it works perfectly with all my hardware, it has features like windows file sharing, all the advanced features of my hardware are fully supported (I have a logitech cordless keyboard with a bunch of extra buttons on it that don't work in other OS's, Winamp makes mp3s sound good and I listen to lots of mp3s, the sound driver in windows makes things sound better, windows has working non-beta software for IM, video playing, VNC, etc..
There are more reasons, but they are small reasons, though numerous. Note I use no other MS software other than Win2k, VS.NET, and IE. I have mozilla in windows, but I only use it when I'm browsing pop-up ad laden sites since it is slow and a memory whore (though not as much as it used to be). IE is fast, that's the only reason I use it really. As for VS.NET, it makes making windows software easy, quick, and powerful (with C#) and it was free from my school. I would never pay for a compiler.
I DO run Mandrake in a dual boot. I use it to develop software. I am a CS major in college. The CS machines run Solaris. In a *nix environment with X-forwarding, shells, and compilers for java, C, C++, etc. it is much easier to write code. Especially with all the nice text editors in linux. When I'm writing code though mp3s sound like ass since linux has no idea how to make my sound card work right (it does work though), and it can't play games for crap, I need my Half-Life mods man. And its basically HARD to use linux. Even harder to change something. When the day comes where linux does everything windows does without me having to open a shell or edit a text based config file I may go all the way.
As far as I'm concerned neither OS is technically superior. Linux is superior in it's free as in speechness, but from a purely technical standpoint win2k and mandrake are equally stable and fast, from my experience any way. Sometimes X messes up in linux, and sometimes windows gets funky. Those are due more to my crappy computer than the os's actually. But the only time I ever have to reboot really is to switch os's. Anyone who tells you that win2k crashes left and right is a lying sack of crap. They didn't set it up properly. They are probably one of those linux guys who only knows how to do things the hardware and can't figure out how to change settings through a GUI designed for someone with a 5th grade mentality.
To sum it up, win2k is stable and fast, it does everything I want without extra effort, and there is software to suit all my needs. Linux does almost all of that, but to do everything windows does is either too much effort from me, or not currently possible. Linux is a good environment to code in windows is a good environment for everything but.
PS: Mac OSX looks really cool. I really like their portable stuff, especially the ipod. As for beOS it appears to be technically superior to all the other OS's I've seen, but again it doesn't have enough software nor does it do everythign windows does or support all my hardware fully.
The operating system I want doesn't exist yet. Read my journal for more on that.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
I wonder how many of these teenage slashdot script kiddies got that one. Man I feel old.
Here's the more interesting story, though: My primary desktop at home was Windows for the longest time. I also had a Web server running Linux in the basement. Due to either unreliable hardware or an unreliable OS, my Windows box kept crashing with memory-type exceptions. (It was giving me either invalid page faults in applications, or crashing the entire system with fatal error 0E. That seems to point to the hardware more than the OS.) Each time I'd reboot and run ScanDisk.
Unfortunately, the day came when, after rebooting, ScanDisk crashed and told me it was out of memory. I later found out that ScanDisk under Windows 98 can run out of memory on partitions more than 16 GB. I was unable to boot my system into Windows after that -- almost the entire filesystem was toast.
I figured this was as good a time as any to buy a new, more reliable machine to run Linux and replace the old web server machine. I installed Red Hat 7.3 on it and got all the web server components (Apache, MySQL, PHP, and so on) installed just fine. In fact, just about everything I installed was very easy to install. I started running Linux as my primary desktop at the time, since I didn't want to try reinstalling Windows only to have the machine crash. As it turns out, I was able to do most of my daily tasks (E-mail, web surfing, and web development) on the Linux box. In particular, Ximian Evolution has enough E-mail features to keep me happy, and I was able to import my old E-mail from Eudora once I could finally recover files from the Windows box.
The only downside is that the fonts don't look as nice in Gnome as they do on Windows. (I understand that's much improved now under Red Hat 8.0, which came out just a week after I installed 7.3.) And, of course, there are programs I can use only on Windows, such as my GPS software and my digital camera software.
Oh, and about those files on Windows: Once I finally booted from another partition and ran the Windows version of ScanDisk, I was able to recover my files. The problem was, all of my directories had lost their names and all of the long filenames were lost, so I was stuck with directories such as "C:\Dir0001a" and "C:\Dir0001a\Dscf01~3.jpg". Nice filesystem, Microsoft.
And when I say it's too hard, please understand that I'm a UNIX vet of over 10 years. I've taught UNIX in college classes and I'm a published author on the subject. I know UNIX.
The problem is that the spirit of the open-source community is "let someone else do it". The idea is almost profound. Writing an email program? Pull in someone else's libraries for encryption, smtp, pop3, GUI, etc and you only need to tie it up in a neat package and stick it out there. When I come along to install said application, it takes me an hour to get all the depencies in place and get everything right (And don't say RPM's, RedHat has their own problems.. dependencies break with other things on your system are too new or too old). I don't have that kind of time.
2> The GUI on Window is perfected. It really is. Everything is clean, consistent, and reasonably intuitive once you get used to the base system. It seems like when I switch to any window manager on *nix, I spend the time getting used to the way one implementation has done something only to find that another application chose to do it a completely different way. The end result it a steep learning curve for each application that I pick up.
The reality is that the one thing everyone considers to be the biggest strength of the open-source community is really the biggest weakness. Thousands of people each with their own idea of how something should work will, in the end, cause any end-user to be completely counter-productive.
I love UNIX. I could not live without it. But it has no place on the desktop unless you have a VERY specific need. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
But let's face it, when I want to install a new email program,
-- People who hate Windows use Linux. People who love UNIX use BSD.
(1) The need to get things done, Windows allows me to do my job, whereas at current Linux will not.
(2) I have to. (See point #1 above).
(3) All the Linux desktops look like ass.
(4) All the cool games work on Windows better (and don't give me that crap that you get equal FPS in Linux as in Windows, that's been disproven time and again.)
(5) Because, frankly, Windows isn't that bad. Only the loud, uninformed, zealot uses terms like "get a real OS" or "Windoze", or "M$"...
Don't flame me, but...
I bought an Archos jukebox. Connected it to the windows box. Everything works great out of the box.
I connected it to the Linux box. _NOWHERE_ could I found step by step instructions to be able to connect to it. I tried something, and it killed my USB mouse, though it shouldn't have. I was completely stuck - I guess a reinstall would have worked, but I just decided to wait until I got another distro which may support it - right now, Linux box is in the corner collecting dust.
P.S. I write embedded software for a living. I'm not stupid, I just don't possess the knowledge to fix the problem.
Solaris/Linux at work. However on 2 of the 3 home systems run windows (mainly are game systems) but the third system which is my webserver/e-mail server at home runs Linux. Until developers get out games first on Linux I hate to say it but the home systems will stay that way for a long time.
I use Win98SE, MacOS 8.1, and RedHat Linux 7.2 on different machines. I have a PPC 7100, a sweet, little 733 mhz P3 (The winbox), and a SPARC 10 and an ACER running the Linux. I also have a C64 and a VIC-20.
I'm trying to have a network containing all possible OSes so I can use any software I want to whenever I want to without using VMs. I still need a new Mac to run OSX, and I need a better box to run a more customized version of Linux, but this I WILL get!!! Btw: I bought my Winbox from a friend who bought it from a friend, so I never actually paid for any Microsoftware.
Voodoo Girl is the bomb!
I love linux. I run windows 2k as my primary desktop OS. I once ran linux for a while as my primary os.
Linux has improved leaps and bounds since i did that. But it takes too long to boot compared to a 2k or XP box.
Windows graphics speed and support etc are far better than linux.
Games... many of the games i like on windows are also for linux but I don't want deal with setting linux up with my graphics card for Quake3 engin based games. In windows it just works and is a few clicks away.
I don't like windows but it works. It has a few features and many programs linux doesnt. But the same can be said for linux but I dont depend on any of those at this point so it doesnt really matter.
I do have 3 linux boxen around incase i do need them for something.
fact of the matter is im too lazy to use and think trough using linux on a daily bases.
1. Most of the time I check /., its from work on my win2k box. Win2k is required since our tools as well as most others' only run on windows.
2. At home I use windows because lately I just want to surf the web and in windows I can do it with a lot less hassle.
3. Games? Maybe... I still play half-life sometimes, and even though I CAN run it under linux it just seems like a lot of trouble.
Basically, I bought a linksys router, which removed the necessity for maintaining a linux box. Oh, and I got a life. That took most of the time I had previously devoted to playing with linux.
Don't get me wrong, I still love the penguin. I'd love to get to work on an embedded linux project, but that hasn't been in the cards lately.
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
At work:
--------
* We use StarTeam as source repository at work, and we don't have the web version.
* Last time I tested, there was no good replacement for the Palm Desktop (like Outlook, for the Palm Pilot). Maybe Evolution now is good enough?
* There is nothing like XmlSpy on Linux
* If I screw up, I'm on my own. No other Linux people at my company that could help me out.
At home:
--------
* All the games for my kids
* My wife is more at home with Word than Open Office
* I have just a few friends that can help if I screw up.
1. Which Oil Drilling company do you work for that uses Windows XP exclusively?
2. The question isn't whether MS are too rich or even if they are too powerful but if they should be allowed to use their excessive power without restraint and without being held responsible for harming others.
3. It is not your concern, but it is your problem. You, like most 18-29 year old American males are not interested in any kind of participation or activism becuase there is an increasing feeling of helplessness in the collective conscience. But it doesn't matter because most people are too nearsighted to care about anything but themselves in the immediate future. For example...
When Saddam Hussein kills Kurds, no cares except Kurds. When he builds medium range missles, Israeli's get nervous. When he builds dirty nukes that fit inside carry-on luggage, Americans buy more miniature American flags.
"When Hitler came for the Jews... I was not a Jew, therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then, Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church -- and there was nobody
left to be concerned." -- Pastor Martin Niemoller, Congressional Record, October 14, 1968, vol. 114, p. 31636.
I am not trying to belittle the holocaust or the genocide in Kurdistan, but Bill Gates is definately on the top 500 list of people most harmful to society that are still breathing. He happens to have a very public profile, which is why you have already joined a countercurrent of people who are simply tired of hearing others whine that "Bill is rich enough".
I think what would always cause me to want to return to windows was the difference in the amount of work required to get things to work the way I wanted. I could always get Windows or Windows apps to do what I wanted (or at least close enough) pretty quickly. Download, Install, Run, Some menu -> Preferences, Some Menu -> Options, Now it works (or if not I'd play with it for a while, and eventually go find some other similar app to try). And Windows got better with every release. There used to be a few reboots in those steps before, but its not too often anymore in 2k or xp.
With Linux I often had trouble even getting apps to run, let alone getting it to work the way I wanted. Download RPM, Install, Try to run, no workie, read Readmes FAQs HowTos for half an hour to discover I have to compile it for some reason, Download Source, try to compile, Download missing packages, Compile, Make Install, Run, go edit all the different conf files, Run again, etc.. Anyways, If I could get it working it would be great, but sometimes I couldn't get the app to work at all. And either way it took me hours of reading all kinds of different things and tweaking stuff and trying again... Which isn't very productive for a desktop computer on which you are trying all the neat new apps on, or trying to find a better app, or trying to get this OS to do what you would have had the old OS doing in minutes.
Earlier this year I decided set up my own email and web server on a computer in the closet. Going by my previous experiences, and by what a friend already had running (and could help me with if needed) I figured I'd try win2k/IIS. Well, that ended up being a big pain in the ass to deal with. It was as big a hassle to figure out and configure Windows as a server platform as Linux was for the desktop! So I figured, WTH, I might as well try Linux instead. In the end, Linux/Apache/php/mysql ended up being a much better solution and not any more difficult to set up and administer than Windows. Now my friend is even using php/mysql on Windows, but he doesn't want to switch to Linux because its his desktop computer. ;)
I have a windows drive (that I am using atm) for DVD authoring. There are no Linux options for this. I switch back to Linux for everything else. I would not waste money on M$Office when OO does everything I need there and all my web and mail needs are met with Evolution and Mozilla. I have plenty of Games on Linux and more are coming out all the time.
I use removeable bays so I can set up a fresh machine when I need to, rather than dual boot.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Windows is the easiest OS to use, it has the most applications available to it, it has the largest client base, it is extremely developer friendly and always integrated perfectly with the development applications for it, its the most well known and used, its completely stable (even more so than linux in my experience), its well supported by 3rd parties and by Microsoft, and if you choose you can do all the programming, customizing and tweaking you want to. So I ask the question, why wouldnt I use it? Because I have something personal against the company that makes it? Not likely, I have a life and work to do and this gets it done.
And at work, I have to use windows, since we have a draconian "IT" department, and we have propriatary applications that I have to run.
At home, I run BSD exclusivly. Free and Open are my trees of choice.
I've switched now, but the thing that kept me on Windows for over a year when I otherwise would have switched was email. All the graphical email clients for Linux are totally inadequate. I ended up going with Gnus, which is _still_ missing one or two of the features I was accustomed to using in Pegasus Mail. (Granted, Gnus also has numerous features that pmail lacks, but I wasn't accustomed to using those.
I tried using Pegasus Mail under WINE, but the performance was lousy and many of the widgets weren't rendered correctly. I tried other email apps, but they all were missing features that I couldn't live without. (I get a lot of email. A lot of email. I have to have advanced filtering (regexes, yes, but also advanced in terms of what it can do to the message; one of the features I miss in Gnus is that my filters can't cause a message to appear in the message list highligted in certain colours I miss that feature on a daily basis) and folder management facilities just in order to function.
I don't understand how people can function with things like Mozilla mail and Evolution. For me, they just don't cut the mustard.
I'm getting by with Gnus for the moment, but there are issues. It's not multithreaded. It doesn't gracefully handle an unreliable or missing connection, which matters to those of us on dialup. There's the aforementioned lack of ability for the filters to set a color for the message's entry in the summary buffer. (This last I could fix in lisp, if I got off my butt and got more familiar with the Gnus internals, but the other two are probably beyond me.)
So, on the ballance, I'm still looking for an excellent mail client for Linux. I have everything else that I need (well, at least everything that I had under Windows; there are things I'd like that are not available on either platforms, but we'll save the outright dreams for another discussion), but this one category of application, I had a good one under Windows, and there's nothing to rival it that will run natively in Linux. I'm making do, but I still want my Pegasus Mail back.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
1) setenv DISPLAY mordor:0.0
2) backspace key doing any number of things (including delete and help key) rather than what is supposed to do (hint: it's says backspace)
3) main editors not always mouse aware (vi, emacs)
4) lack, until recently, of a decent graphical mail application
5) lack of a decent word processor. Forget about word: could somebody clone Wordpad and include it in all standard Unix distros?
6) ugly font design. KDE and GNOME are light years ahead of motif but the fonts they use still suck.
7) default values for almost all unix commands are obscure cases rather than the norm. For example, typing xterm from the command shell should background itself without need for '&' with an explicit command option *not* to do this
8) lack of support of extended character set. e.g. vim seven-bits by default all characters.
9) lack of third party applications
I like Linux. More specifically, I like Red Hat Linux.
The biggest reason why we won't switch to Linux is because of the accounting software. There are a few accounting packages for Linux but nothing custom tailored for an electrical contractor/manufacturing company. It would have to blow the Windows solution out of the water considering all of the money it's going to cost to re-enter all that data.
On the my companies laptop, i left a little M$ partition active. Why?
1) Banking programs do not work under wine.
2) Neither does the program for filling in tax-information (those eggheads do their own encryption)
3) There are no (not yet anyway) educational programs in my motherlanguage for my 4 year old son on linux!
Java has been invented, some still have to discover it...
I understand the sentiments of many and why they must use M$ even if, in a perfect world, they would not. But there is no real reason to stay there at this point unless you run a multimedia shop or you need some custom VBA app (like our accounting office ;(.
Things are good now and getting better every day. People ask why I would put up with bugs and rough edges. Well I put up with them for years w/ M$ and paid high prices for the "honor". Now that M$ has finally built an OS that falls into the exceptable range it seems everyone gets amnesia and forgets all about the last 10 years or so. When the biggest richest corp in the business either could not or would not make improvements that mattered. Today Word seems better suited as a virus delivery platform than a "productivity" app.
On that note, the number of document born viri since conversion to Linux 0.( or any other kind for that matter)
Prior to conversion, there was no way of counting.
And still people remain faithful and after they pay M$ they pay Norton or who knows who else just to keep all that nonsense at bay and then smile and say "it's great, what's wrong?" pulease....
Well, to each his own i guess.
First - seduction.
MS makes it SO EASY to go windows. My computers came with them installed. I got XP Pro for free by attending a MS seminar in Mississauga on web services.
Second - compatibility.
Everything RUNS on Windows - especially games. You can't run lots of good software unless you run it under Windows. I had to install Windows 3.1 for the first time ever to run Power Japanese.
Windows NT 4 drove me NUTS as it only went up to Direct X 3 and couldn't play modern games. After SP 6 it was rock solid too...
Third - arrogant prick behavior on the part of *nix users.
Several times during my youth I ran into installed Unix systems only to be run off like a wino at Tiffany's when I tried to find out how they worked. I saw Unix people literally crinkle their noses with disgust while I asked my stupid newby questions.
Over and over I ran into the attitude that Unix people were genetically superior and that if you didn't know Unix you could never know Unix, that knowing Unix was like being seven feet tall, in that it you are not seven feet tall you can never BE seven feet tall. But it's not like that at all.
When I first heard of Unix while at AES in Mississauga and they gave us all some lectures on it. I was used to IBM 80 column punch cards and when I heard of the Unix philosophy of pipes and filters and everything being a bit stream I knew right away that that was the correct way to do it.
Then - they stopped the lectures for the staff and only continued them for the University of Waterloo co-op students. I can still see those kids rushing into that room and the door closing in my face. I knew the bus was leaving without me.
Today I'd like to report that I'm a big Unix guru and sys admin etc but it's not so. I'm a Windows developer with an obsolete skill set - no, wait, that's LEGACY skill set, and my *nix skills are minimal. I have a Mandrake box at home but just putter around with it.
I'm sold on OpenBSD by a friend of mine who actually WAS a big *nix guru and sys admin and is now coding instead. I really respect his opinion.
I figure OpenBSD will sweep the field, once people figure out it's there, and it gets easy to install (Mandrake OpenBSD anyone?) AND gets compatible with all Windows apps.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
At home:
Photoshop
Quark Express
Illustrator
BattleField 1942
mozilla
cygwin
At work:
xterm
xterm
gkrellm
xterm
mozilla
gcc
cvs
So linux 100% at work, windows 100% at home. No compelling reason to use linux at home over windows, I need windows for the 3rd party applications & I want my games as fast as can be (tweak monkey)
It's not GAMES that is keeping me on Windows. At work, we have DOZENS of applications, written in various languages, that were designed for different permutations of the WINDOWS OS.
The accounting software only works under DOS, the strange image retrieval system that was designed for Windows 98, but won't work on anything above or below it (!), the call center database program that was written in (of all things) Visual COBOL, The medical management program that runs poorly on windows 95, better on Windows 2000, but not on XP.
It's all just barely hanging together, but these programs are all proprietary and were designed for windows, and then the makers went out of business. Linux is out of the question.
* Historical Reason : Most people only want to learn one OS at most, except maybe a minority of interrested Geeks. So people learn windows at works then just use the same at home.
* Easyness of use. Even if linux get better , let us be real. Installation and usage of windows is far easier for people which know nothing of PC. Furthermore again due to historical reason everybody can tweak a bit of windows or know someone which can.
* Games ! Applications ! Plus this is the same applications than at works, emaning you don't need to learn two software to do the same things. Need I say more ?
* All that which anger OOS suporter (API non disclosure, Monopoly, blatant skewing of market power to force the hands of people, new licence scheme) is completly LOST on non-geek people. This is a sort of "negative" argument.
* and due to the above points, the mega super argument it comes already installed on the PC of first time user, and thus unless geek they will stay on that forever.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
If, like me, you are a home user with no qualms about warez, Windows gets you tons of every kind of app imaginable, plus tons of hardware support, plus tons of compatibility, all for the price of a broadband connection. And don't forget that there is free (as in speech) software written for Windows, as well. Of course, the best free software for Windows tends to be things that are more or less pirating tools, like VirtualDub, FlaskMPEG, LAME, or game console emulators. (Note: I am not saying that everyone who uses these apps is a pirate.)
If I had to actually legitimately have licenses for my software, I'd definitely use GNU/Linux with the standard set of free apps for most desktop work. I'd only buy Windows (or OS X) if there was a crucial app that didn't exist (or run flawlessly) in Linux.
For the record, I put warezed Win2K, Office, Photoshop, SoundForge, etc., on PC boxes I've built for myself, friends and family. I run warezed OS X 10.2 and OfficeX on the two G3 laptops I was given(!) that I use for browsing/e-mail. I use Chimera, Phoenix, and Mozilla instead of IE, although I guess that only counts as OS, not free.
According to the same source, 2% also use CowboyNeal. I don't think it's a very accurate place to get your information. ;)
.Net) rely on the VB based (D)COM interface, and so inherit the same kind of crutch. MS is trying to be everything to every developer with their embraced/extended libraries so though is removed from the process and they Own All Your Base instead.
Reading through the responses, aside from gaming and "work makes me" the predominant reason is massive application support, and the potential complexity (meaning array of complex-application specific) thereof.
Microsoft set out several years ago with VisualBasic to create a language simple enough any idiot could work in it - and they do! The APIs almost amounts to: DoWhatIMeanTo(WithThis). The whole mess encourages sloppy coding and letting the OS handle all the messiness which largely accounts for the size of recent releases.
Even the slightly more advanced languages for the platform in the RAD dept. (Delphi, VC++,
I once read in an MS development manual about how the underlying API and hidden libraries were intended to, "shield the developer from the complexities involved". I don't want to ever rely on a piece of software written by someone who buys into that. If a developer can't handle the complex nature of development they shouldn't be developing.
So, by tapping intellectual apathy MS grabbed a hefty amount of brain-share early - it continues to coddle them along now with helping hands that ensure MS continues as the dominant OS of choice for new software.
I've worked in and out of MS environments - I'm much happier out of, no question.
Any spoon would be too big.
My company builds medical database applications for physical therapy, rehabilitation, and other orthopedic-based professions. I develop our stuff using a lot of office integration and libraries. Although I hate MS more than anything in the world, there are advantages that it brings to the party: 1. The Office/VBA environment allows me to be massivly productive, even more so than in vb. I know that C is god's language and all; and I know that I am not writing especially tight code. I do know that I can produce a huge application in a small amount of time though. The libraries and data-access foundation that I have with the Office tools are worth it to me. 2. Physical therapists are not the most computer-savvy bunch. My products are specifically written to be sickeningly easy to use, this is on purpose. I have dodged incorporating a user-level security system for some time, simply because easy sells. Windows is easier than anything else for my users; secondly, they already have windows. Almost 100% of them. 3. Despite DLL hell, it is still easier to deploy to windows. When users are stupid, the only option is to make a nearly flawless installer. I can do this on windows without much effort. Don't think we are a raging microsoft shop though. All our development is done with W98, VB6, and Office 97. All the new versions of Office have been fat, buggy, and not worth my time. Hope this made some sense... if you hit google for 'physical therapy software' you will find us. -Benji
If my opinion counts, i think it takes some time to RTFM and learn how to solve problems with a completely new operating system
Furthermore, that time is often very fragmented since one typically has to learn at home, and be SURE he is able to work effectively on the new system before he can switch at work !!
That being said, i have red hat 8 at home and i plan to switch at work within the next few months.
We learn from history that we learn nothing from history - Tom Veneziano
My IBM Idea Scan scanner (parallel) is not supported under linux. My Sound Blaster 16 will only operate in full duplex mode under windows, meaning that I cannot do mulitrack recording with Linux. The other 98% of the time I actually do use linux and I am quite happy with it.
spend money here
I'm Mac all the way. Even got .mac. so the only reasons are price of hardware, which will go down with Marklar, and the damn NYBOE! The New York Board of Education makes catalog software (which my mom uses as a teacher and I need to fix) that only works on windows and macos 8. Doesn't even run on 9, let alone X!
If someone can show me how to replace all of our applications, especially our crufty Access97 database, then maybe we can talk. The forms and reports are the key, I know about mySQL and PostgreSQL for the actual database.
--Mike--
The primary reason why I use Windows as my OS of choice is that I make my living writing software that runs on Windows. All of my machines run NT/2000 or XP. My Domain controller and print server runs on an NT 4.0 box (because it's a 486/50 with 32 MB of RAM), my main desktop runs 2000 Pro, and my File Server/Terminal Server box runs 2000 Server. My laptop runs XP Pro. All of these boxes are rock stable (I saw a few blue screens on my old 486 during NT 3.51 days, but that's it). I am productive on these machines when I develop software, work from home (I'm a developer at work, too), when I surf the web, write my resume, work on my finances and do my taxes.
.NET to do my job, and emulation isn't fast enough.
The second reason why I use Windows as my OS of choice is that there are no compelling reasons for me to switch to Linux or Mac. The Mac laptops are very cool, and I'd love to have one to play with, but I need to run
Now, I'm not the kind of person to hate a company because of it's success, but I'm not a Microsoft fanboy, either. They've done some illegal things and should be punished for it (more severly than they currently are).
Lastly, I have to say there are some things to do that make running a Windows Box as secure as possible. 1. Never, ever, ever, run Outlook. It's a steaming turd. 2. Avoid, like the plague, Internet Explorer. These two apps are the primary reasons for most of the recent major virii outbreaks. I use Mozilla as my browser, and couldn't be happier. Keeping my Windows boxes up to speed as far as security goes is pretty straight forward. hfnetchk and Windows Update keep you informed on security patches and installation is pretty easy. Read Bugtraq and subscribe to MS Security Bulletins to keep yourself informed.
Harumph!
C8H10N4O2 | Developer > Code
I've been running Windows 2000 or XP since I could get my hands on a Win2k beta in 1999. In that time, and among all my friends running it (we're all power users, CS students, DBA's, etc...), we've had a total of two crashes in that time. One was from a hard drive failure, one was from a beta program. Otherwise, the operating system has been rock solid that whole time. It recognizes our hardware, copies pictures from our digital cameras when I plug it in, plays all the games, and doesn't complain. Anyone that still complains about crashes on 2000 or XP has some other software causing it, or flaky hardware, since the OS never even crashed when I was installing it on thousands of computers at Boeing.
If I need to run Apache, MySQL, a NAT/Firewall, or something along that line, I'll setup a FreeBSD server on an old computer and use it. Those programs don't matter on my laptop, on my desktop at work, on anything other than a server box I'm running with no monitor. However, I've also done all of those in Windows and it's worked fine. Configuration was easy, they ran while I could setup the FreeBSD box, and they were easy to remove.
What FreeBSD/Linux are missing is a killer application that will make me switch. Windows2k/XP are solid enough for 99% of users out there (a crash a year is OK, power goes out more often than that), we know the interface and understand how it works, it supports the widest variety of hardware, and every program I need to use can run on it. The xNIX zealots might point out great alternative software I can run on their platforms, but the bottom line is no one has yet to point out a program they can use that I can't run on Windows. If you want to know why people aren't switching over, that's why. Until there is a program that I can't live without, I'm not going to be switching over for anything but my server, there's no reason to lose the advantages that Windows offers.
I still use winblows @ home b/c of the gaming support and until games can easily be developed for Linux or Mac, then I will probably be stuck with it. Hmm, smells like a call for java game development to me! My company is probably still using windows b/c most customers require development on that platform. They probably require windows b/c they like the ?security? of having a single point of failure for OS related problems. If something goes terribly wrong with Linux, who can they complain to?
Linux is, inspite of Trasgamings efforts (www.transgaming.com)... /em sigh
--Dan
Personally, I'm a mouse-hater. Between the keyboard-shortcuts, the keyboard-accessible start menu, and the standard menus in Win32-based programs (+ Opera for web browsing), I can seriously go for hours of being productive on my Windows machine without ever needing to touch the mouse.
With my Redhat 7.3/KDE box, while things have definitely improved, I have to deal w/ lots programs (like Konsole) that don't let you access the menus w/ a keyboard. While it's possible to make shortcuts to certain programs in the 'K' menu, it's not nearly as easy as in Windows, where I just right-click (or menu-key) on the icon in my start menu & go to its properties.
Of course, the abundance of Windows-only games doesn't hurt either... B^)
Linux/Apache for Webserving
Netware for file and document serving (Law Library)
Windows for gaming and home browsing.
brMy point is that there is a "best tool" for the job. Someday, perhaps 50 years from now there will be an all in one device that performs all my comuting functions (see Asimov, Heinlein, etc...), but untl then I have different OS's and Apps to meet my needs.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
The only reason windows is my main desktop is application specific. Here's a rundown:
1) Email. I use outlook in windows, but Evolution would work fine in linux. If only i could import all my outlook shtuff...
2) "Office". I use MS Off. That said, i have used abiword and gnucalc (thats the spreadsheet, right?), and they're great and fine. Print ok, interoperable with MSO, etc.
3) Acrobat. Fine under linux.
4) JDK. Fine under linux.
--now the problems start--
5) Autocad. I need it for work. Absolutely can't live without it. Thus, can't live without windows either.
6) Quickbooks. For my business. Same as AC2000.
7) Circuit Design Software, etc. ie, MaxPlus (for school), and programming software for PIC and 6800-chips.
Thats why!
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
This simplest excuse is because it came loaded on my laptop. But it's not the honest reason. My 2 primary machines are windows boxes for ease of interoperability, games, and productivity. There's something to be said for being able to simply install a program and be able to use it.
I've been using linux since pre-1.0 kernels, and I always have a linux box around. While there are 3 windows boxes on my network, I also have an additional 3 linux boxes. One acts as a firewall, dhcp, web cache, dns cache for my wireless network, one as an internal fileserver and web server, and one for my primary development station.
One windows box is for my financial stuff, one is my wifes laptop, and the other is my main laptop for everything work and dev. For development, I frequently go back and forth from my windows laptop, to my primary linux dev station, and even to a vmware session on my laptop. I've created as much of a hybrid working environment as I can on my windows laptop using Cygwin. I cannot cope without a good CLI.
What it really boils down to, is that in my computing life, I unfortunately have to deal with a lot of people who just aren't computer savvy. To make both my life, and theirs easier, I have to be able to demonstrate how things are done, and give people a quick, simple resolution to their problems.
When an ideal hybrid comes along that allows my wife to handle doing semi-complex tasks easily, I'll jump all over it. Lindows is a step in the right direction, and Transgamer is coming along very nicely.
IMHO we're still 3 to 5 years away from having a great, easy to use interface (and I'm not talking just GUI) that any idiot can pick up. Until that time, I have to (begrudgingly) stick with the lowest common denominator.
Karma: 0 (But I wield a mean +10 Vorpal Apathy)
It seems the main argument against making the leep for most people into open source software is compatabality. I used to be controlled by the microsoft only mantra, but found that once you make the perminent switch finding ways to work with MS compatiable software ain't that hard. The point was put to me when i was starting out saying "...but where this and that....". How long have you been using windows ? Now imagaine that you spent even half that time learning Linux you would be able to pick it up. After an insperational talk with this person I compleately switched and have not been back since. Learning all the new tools is hard and it requires a differant mind set but IMHO it is worth it. Just quit it cold turky.
Funny you'd ask when you already know a large part of the answer. I'm also using a company-provided machine to do company-mandated Windows development, even though at home I'm running OS X. I personally know several other people in the same boat.
:)
Not that this thread needed another response or it'll even get modded to 1, but in case some future historian is studying the demise of Microsoft, I thought it'd be important to weigh in anyway.
ONLY 1 thing...
I'm a web developer. The client interface is an internet browser. M$ IE has (depending on who you believe) 90%+ market share.
When I test my code, I have to test in the environment my clients use, 90%+ of them use IE on Windows.
I telecommute and code at home sometimes so my home PC is a Win2K box also.
But! I've been running commercial web/app/database/mail servers on Linux for 3+ years. We have NO M$ boxes in our production environment.
We're almost completely open source in a high-volume production environment.
Our CTO is a huge open source fan and we've been open source as much as possible since day one. The only reason we have a Windows server at work is to run Crystal Reports.
Fist and foremost: laziness
Really, who cares. I do most of my work via a ssh shell to various other machines. Why do I care whats on my desktop.
I don't have any reason NOT to run Windows. It does everything that I want it to do, why should I switch. There isn't a killer app to motivate me. Linux w/ X isn't any faster (I've tried); there is higher quality end-user apps on Windows, and more of them.
I like linux. I convert every server that I can. I save thousands of dollars in licensing fees for my employer every year with it, but Linux doesn't cut it for a modern, easy desktop OS.
The only other OS that has almost converted me away from Windows was beOS. It was clean, easy and fast. I liked the interface and the spankling of *nix. Alas it is mostly dead and the # of apps pales in comparison to Windows.
So here I sit... Windows XP, Office XP, IE 6 and all. Other than SecureCRT and Winamp there isn't a non-Microsoft app on my box. Sigh.
I think there's no true in saying "I just use win because I must not think, because It just do what I need, because I won't learn Linux (or others)".
People say this just because M$ imposed them such mentality. If we (for some reason) will be obliged to use Linux, Linux could be as natural as Windows now is (and probably people will say for windows what they now say for Linux). And so on.
The mean of this is that we must use our minds. If we go on with "less I think, better is" any company like M$ could drive us to do what they want. But if we use the grey matter we have in our skulls, probably we will able to do what we *really* want, not what THEY want. And Linux is a SO that could enable us to do this, at least in computing area.
Use your head, it's better.
However, I use much more Linux that Winzoz. At my company we use Linux as server (and some clients), but mainly windows for developing web apps... this because some editor are not present in Linux (flash, dreamweaver).
But I think that for a normal home use (internet,email,mp3,office and games) linux could be used with no problem, and no knowing in "how it works", as lazy-minded windows users wants.
I play regulary RTCW under linux... and it rocks. There're several games out of there that runs on linux, and are pretty good.
For office there's openoffice. Ok, probably it does not have the visualbasic extensions of M$ Office, but how many (in a normal home use) need it?
And for browsing?
mozilla,netscape,galeon... they beat IE a long way.
And for email?
evolution... much better,stable and nice than outlook.
and for multimedia?
xmms is the same (and better) as winamp is under windows.
and remember mplayer : a real multimedia video player... that supports almost anything.
probably you'll have to learn how to use rpm or dpkg, but in the end is not much more different that knowing that u must click on "setup.exe" to install a new software on win.
bye.
I was there.
At work:
Required.
At home (laptop):
Wireless networking, needed for work development, stupid windows games (www.gamehouse.com)
At home (desktop):
Counter-strike. 'Nuff said?
I use my home machine for word processing, games, and Quicken. Now that they make a Mac version of Quicken maybe we can switch (there are already a lot of games for OS X: Warcraft 3, Civ III, etc)
At work I use Windows, Mac, and Unix/Linux, and my primary is an iMac running OS 9. However, my company recently "shifted focus" and everyone will have PC's within a year.
I use WINE for my Office apps at work when I need to share between people, otherwise I use straight text or a Wiki.
At home, there's a different story. I have 5 areas that I simply can't do without:
Web Development
Graphics Music Games BloggingYou'll never hear me argue that Windows is technically superior, crashes less often or is even visually more appealing than OSX, command-line Linux, FreeBSD, Plan9, VMS, CP/M or whatever OS you feel like esopusing the virtues of; it just does what I need for those five things. The software I like (at least in the music area, and possibly the games area) is available exclusively on Windows.
Until all of the above offer me the same functionality with the same ease of use, I'm going to use Windows for my personal stuff because it doesn't get in the way.
There's so little difference between politics and jihad lately...
I'm staying on Windows as my internet connection is very flakey on Linux.
"With Microsoft, you get Windows. With Linux, you get the full house" - unknown
I asked myself the same question a year ago.
The company I worked for had a product that only worked in IE 5.5+ Management considered it a waste of time to make it work on other browsers, so I had to use Windows.
Since everyone was fired, I now use Linux exclusively. Unless I need to develop more Windows' apps I'll never go back.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I can't catch nearly the same number of viruii running linux, therefore it sux.
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte
...or, at least, I didn't pay any money for it. As I haven't found a way steal XP without registering online, win2k pro is my last microsoft OS. I run Linux, too, but it really is free. I don't play games on my PC and I know enough about Linux to get me by (being able to do everything on Linux having only a windows background makes for slow learning). I haven't paid microsoft any money for quite a few years now and I've been sleeping very well...
The fact that I can go to the store and pick up whatever software I want. If mac software wasnt so hard to find and didnt come out 10 years after the PC version had become obsolite Id be using a mac (OSX of course). If I could pick up the latest games/programs for linux as quickly and as easily as windows software id be using linux. The OS is only as useful as the software runing on it. I know theres a wide variety of open source alternitives, but compatability/ease of use are a big part of making a switch between OS's
On a scale from 1 to 10, I give this troll a 3.
I was prepared to switch to linux for home use, before I found I could download WinXP and Win2000 from various file-sharing networks. I am also interested in breaking in to the tech industry. It seems a lot of entry level jobs are about fixing Windoze boxes, and using Commercial software with Graphic Interfaces on Win32. Frankly, now that the average user can steal so much software, Open source doesn't have the appeal it once had.
nobody else post after this. /LAST POST
if you must, go reply to something up top.
Frankly, I dont have a good reason to use anything else. Windows does what I need it to do, i'm already used to all the software I use for it, and I have very few problems.
I've considered running Linux, but don't feel like putting all the time into finding new software that I like. Also, as my college, parents, friends, everyone else I know runs on Windows and I need to be compatible. I also know that most Linux programs can work fine with their Windows counterparts but then why switch?
The only software of Microsoft's that I dont like is Visual C++ (Borland C++Builder is far superior), Internet Explorer, and MSN Messenger. The only reason I use messenger is because I can't get the damn thing off my Windows XP computer and figured why the hell not.
I'm very fond of MS Office 2000 and XP, and even though I dont have as much control over Windows XP as I would like, it runs damn good and I have VERY few problems.
I am, however, very into the whole open source software trends. I've recently downloaded the Gimp for Windows, OpenOffice, FileZilla, and a bunch of other open source stuff. I've been a Mozilla user for about 6 months now and havent looked back at IE since. I only use IE for the few websites that dont seem to open in Mozilla for me, and to doublecheck the website I work at to make sure all my coding looks good on both browsers. As for OpenOffice, I wasn't very impressed and still prefer MS Office. The Gimp would be a lot better if it had more Windows filter packs (BTW, please email me at frozen@gccafe.com if you know of a place I can get some great filters). If it did I wouldnt have boughten Photoshop 7 and would have just stuck with 5, using the Gimp as my main photo program.
So basically, I use Windows because I'm one of those rare people who really have no major complaints.
Frozen Insanity
http://frozen-solid.net
I use Quicken and their online bill payment service. I can't remember the last time I actually had to write out a check, and fill out the form, and put it in the envelope, and find a stamp, not to mention having to walk outside and put it all in the box, and then have to raise that damn flag... I mean, it is the 21st century, isn't it? And still there is no Linux app that can handle something as simple as this? (Yeah, I'm lazy. Guess what - so are lots of other people. Oh, yeah, and then there's the games...)
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
I hate this whole Linux/Windows debate. The fact is that $IBM$, $SUN$ have you linux suckers writing software for them for free. They sell more hardware when they can offer software for free. So go ahead and keep writing programs for them using your shitty gcc and look up functions on your shitty browsers and complain about how $M shouldn't charge for software to pay their employees..
I'm your average computer user who knows a bit about linux and knows about windows and such and while this may sound like trolling it is not. I have a box dedicated for linux and I barely use it..... why? because everytime I want to install something or try something new it's a pain in the ass and takes me forever to configure and download little extras (libraries compilers etc). Although I must admit i have seen some improvements to make the xwindows user friendly its still lacking in certain aspects that windows has (such as changing resolutions on the fly from a gui menu, etc.).
I have some interest in this as I am trying to move my company to Linux. All our servers already are, but laptops and desktops are all Windows (98/XP).
The reasons are the same you will ahve heard many times.
1. Apps. We are trying StarOffice, but converting the world's excel, word and PPT files is a royal pain - never QUITE works. Office it is, much to my chagrin.
2. Integration. Cutting and pasting works different in all Linux aps. Fonts are sub-optimal. Everything works "almost" out of the box. You cannot right-click on a file and select "Send To...". And so on. Desktop Linuxius still for people who know what they are doing.
3. The pain of changing. Even if (1) and (2) above were not an issue, the work of switching from one OS to another takes real effort, and we like all other companies are struggling to make the sales - the last thing we can afford is an exercise that will distract us from this.
Damn, I wish it were different, becuase I am very motivated to push this through...
Michael
---
BDOS ERR ON A:>
I havent' been able to make Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri work in Linux yet, as soon as that works and I have money again(I just bought an engagment ring so the highpriced cable bill with cable modem had to go) and can afford a cable or dsl modem(since network cards work ten times easier than winmodems in linux), I'll be Linux only. Of course, I also plan on getting out of the IT world to escape forced Microsoftism...I'm thinking I'll go into writing...
90% of my time is either on a NetBSD or Linux system, now-a-days NetBSD has been winning just because of personal preference.
But when doing tech writing, or technical editing I have to use Word, it's what my employers require for compatibility with the revision marking systems.
Now I'm going to MacOS X, but most of the time I'll be using the non-MS tools (like OpenOffice) and will only be using the MS tools when required.
Windows doesn't have the feel I like, it's that easy. MacOS doesn't either, but it's closer and runs the mix of apps I need.
Mac OS: to play Mac only games made by Ambrosia, and other games.
Windows 98 and 2000: for windows only games, software, and anything else you can think of.
RedHat 7.2: I eventually plan to make a small home network with that will link this system and my windows systems together.. I just need the money.
Those are my OSes, and why I use them.
...don't fix it. And as far as I'm concerned, W2K isn't broken. I haven't had a *single* hiccup with W2K. I had a few with IIS on a server, but those were my fault (shitty programming... see my journal). Why would I want to devote many, many very valuable hours trying to fix a non-problem. My time is invaluable. Spending a few hundred bucks for W2K then forgetting about it is priceless.
At work, i have 2 XP boxes and a W2k Advanced server machine all powered up in my office. There's a linux box and an openbsd box i used for a few investigative projects, but they're powered down right now.
:) I dont run any IM software on the machine, infact, the only office component i use on that box is excel.
:)
I've got a "General machine" running XP that i do my web surfing, mail deleting, and the majority of my work on (it usually has 2 or 3 isqlw windows open at all times, not to mention all those instant messenger windows)
My other xp machine is a much faster dedicated machine for work in vs.net, as well as working with 3 separate source trees for forks of a testing harness that i manage. I have outlook completely unconfigured on this machine, as outlook only makes things slow
At home, my main machine is a dual proc sparcstation 10. (my SGI indigo^2 ate its disk and i have no install media). I have an openBSD IDE fileserver, and another openBSD dedicated firewall (p166mmx, no less). I've also got a 486-133 distributed across the floor. Finally, there's a p233mmx running win2k server. My wife has a powerbook g3. I have an IBM Z50 CE laptop.
If i read slashdot from work, its IE6. From home, its either IE6 (via TS connection to the windows box from my wireless Z50) or links on the sparc 10. no version of any netscape product is fast enough on any machine i own.
at home my main apps are mutt, irc, and rdesktop, sprinkled with links, and gnuplot and xfig occasionally.
The biggest thing the windows machine gets used for is for our photoprinter, and running the BMW ETK software (You can buy the mobile traditions CDROM which is a snapshot of the BMW parts database for older cars. includes technical drawings/diagrams.. helps me keep my 1988 M5 running)
Basically, i dont care what os I use - whatever fits the needs the easiest. Fuck trying to get a photoprinter working on anything besides windows.. i mean.. why bother ? And i know that some people can get netbsd running on the ibm Z50, but again, why bother ? CE has some annoying quirks (like no soft reset, and forgetting what my Aironet 352 card looks like about every 5th power-wake).
Basically, any OS i've mentioned here - OS X, W2k, XP, OpenBSD, and solaris -- they're all passable and don't get in my way enough to cause frustration for the tasks they're doing. On solaris i use CDE because fuck compiling gnome or something else, CDE works great for me and doesn't slow me down.
So at work, its 99% windows, at home, its 70/30 unix/windows. I've got too much of an investment in unix hardware, unix knowledge, and unix comfort, to just throw it away.
One thing that makes Microsoft products a good choice at work is um, that i've been a microsoft employee for about two and a half years. They're sort of the incumbant environment at work. Although there are people here that use exchange connector and Evolution against the corporate exchange servers (mostly to try it out, assess the "competition", etc). And one of the VB developers writes his code in raw emacs for NT, without c-mode.el (he wrote his own c-mode a long time ago and prefers it).
So, i dont really care what platform i use. What im doing is more important than the toolchain, because most toolchains and platforms these days are passable. I missed all MS operating systems after win 3.1 and went straight to w2k, but our lab team has to support everything 95osr2 and above, so i get to see how shitty W9x is from time to time
realistically, W2k and XP are good enough that i dont miss anything about unix, except the unix-specific things. For that, i install MS Services for UNIX on my machines. the big things i use are "tail -f" and one-off sed/awk/grep/head/tail/cut constructs that are just stupidly frustrating to do in Cygwin or with the dos ports of the GNU tools. SFU does all that stuff perfectly, and gives me a real single-rooted fs and a real tsch hosted on my box. I can paste data from sed into excel or notepad. It's really the best of both worlds.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
I run both M$ and Linux both at work and home. I am a systems admin of both M$ and Linux systems and M$ tools keep me on M$. And at home, it's games.
There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and BSD. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.
As an avid self proclaimed hardcore PC (enphasis (can't spell)on PC), I really like windows to be on my gaming computer. But not to worry, gentoo linux is used on www.squirrelsoup.net and I'm repairing an SGI 1100 (if i get it) which will probly run Open or Free BSD, still deciding (any ideas?).
Networking, only one letter from NOT working...
I'm replying just in case someone is keeping track...for the record. I'm 100% linux at work. At home, I'm stuck with 5 years of MSMoney data, there's no good replacement for quickbooks (for the business). At work I ocassionaly boot into WinNT to view an MSProject file. I'd also like AutoCAD or replacement. In linux everything else is either better, good enough or will soon be and I can live with it.
It's Dreamweaver for me. I've tried living without it, but it's just too good of an HTML editor. Yes, it has flaws, but nothing I've tried on GNU/Linux even comes close. And don't even get me started about using it under WINE.
Well, I'm a mac person myself, and would love for that to be true, but still now, I can't do internet banking cuz my bank only offers a windoze solution...
.Net continues to grow and flourish, MS still has its way...
When we have true interoperability, I'll be happy, but while
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will! - Antonio Gramsci.
It could just be the system I use, but I cannot seem to get my PC games working properly under Linux, though I have tried. I'm still hacking at it, though, and I'm sure I'll get it soon. Other than that, it's only around for when the elders of my family call saying 'my Win98 isn't working..come fix it' or something like that, and at work, because our stupid billing system only runs on win9x and 2k. Most of my home systems run Linux.
"You think that's air you're breathing now?"
I edit professional video on Windows 2000 via Matrox Digisuite. That and the apps like Adobe After Effects Production Bundle and Media Cleaner Pro have nothing even close to it on LINUX. Plus the games! Love the games!
LanParties! that's the reason for windows on my box. cause for some god awful reason Worms World Party doesn't want to install under Linux, UT2003's Linux client is slow as can be, and 3d hardware accel isn't so simple to setup under linux either.
There is already a NWN standalone server for linux, and the client is on the way, but there will be NO port of the toolset. From what I've heard, this was because Kylix/C++ was released later than planned, and the team apparently didn't want to deal with a late-term port from C++Builder.
Ok here goes, I use Windows cause not only does it have a nice graphical interface it also has better programs. If Windows never existed I would never have been interested with computers.
I have RH8-only desktop that I use 99% of the time and a WinXP Pro box that I keep around only my HP 5100CXi scanner (never got Sane to work) and my Deneba Canvas graphics app (runs only on Mac and Windows). That's it. My next PC's gonna be a Mac and that'll give me what I need to give Windows the boot for good.
Work and Games....I like to play games and work insists I use visio/excel/word. I could do word and excel in open office or star office fairly well, but visio is a no go and I like my games to much to wait 6 months for a port.
Archfeld posting from inside the lab, no logon allowed.
At work we're all on 2k or XP (obviously no earlier windows OS should be used) because we develop software for embedded systems based on NT. Nothing short of an NT-based system will let you develop code efficiently.
I've used un*x at work (and back in college) and it's quite useful, but it's lightyears away from being a useful home OS. It's a hobby, not an OS... I could write drivers for every unsupported device I own, but I'd rather be able to scan some photos, import some firewire video, author a DVD and burn it. Games aside, linux/un*x just can't do what I need it to do, and I don't have the time for another hobby.
-Thorn
"Saying "2000/XP" is like saying "MacOS X/BSD". The two are completely different beasts."
No, they're not. Windows XP is just Windows 2000 + skins + better drivers + new Start menu + a few aesthetic details. In fact, i'm sure you've noticed, Windows 2000 is Windows NT "5.0", and Windows XP is Windows NT "5.1". That is to say, a semi-moderate update, but not a completely new product.
"Windows 2000 is indeed stable, and all-around is the best OS M$ has ever put out. XP, on the other hand, is a nightmare at all levels. The UI changes are ridiculous and counterintuitive, the stability is a joke, and the mothership-calling/DRM/licensing/totalitarianism is insulting, painfully annoying, undesirable, and runs directly counter to the philosophy that made Microsoft, DOS, and Windows a success, which is putting more power and control in the hands of the end user."
The UI changes that actually go any deeper than simple colour and logo changes are very few, and most of these can be modified to work/look exactly like Windows 2000. The stability is a joke? Bull. Windows XP is just as stable as 2000. I've NEVER, repeat, NEVER, had Windows XP (that is to say, the actual operating system) crash on me, and i've been using Windows XP since the pre-2600 build stages. In fact, i might relate a little anecdote here: a few weeks ago, i was attempting to get an old (500 MHz) computer up and running, and as my XP CD was mysteriously corrupted, i installed Windows 2000. Mere MINUTES (and i do not exaggerate) after my initial boot, i got a blue screen, and it died. In Windows XP, the operating system rarely crashes; instead, the programs crash, and the operating system continues on its merry little way. As for "mothership-calling", almost all of those features can be disabled, and if you still think that "M$" is HAX0RING UR IMPROTANT FILEZ then you can invest in a decent firewall. If you know how to work XP, you can make it work or look any way you want it to.
As for the second post:
"In all seriousness, I have found XP to be terrible both in general speed (crispness, responsiveness to clicks, etc.) and stability (especially in an environment where the machine is pushed hard)."
Ok, i don't know what you're running on your computers (i have a Dell Dimension 4300 1.8GHz/512-MB RAM computer, which sounds like the same model, or a similar model, as yours), but XP is nothing but speedy for me. And i'm one of those people who loads his computer with every possible RAM-sucking gadget he can find, including transparent mouse cursors, transparent windows and menus, every single visual effect XP comes with, etc., etc.. XP is super fast for me. My programs don't load up slow at all. On the other hand (and i did notice that you didn't defend any other operating system, but let's use an example here), Mandrake 9 with KDE 3 runs noticeably slower, and this is the standard bare-bones install, with no fancy tricks or gadgets. On both my 500-MHz K6-2 and my 1.8-GHz P4, i have Mandrake and XP Pro dual-booted, and XP is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH faster.
Now, why do i use Windows? Because i'm 15 and don't have the money to buy a Mac; because i was BORN in a house that ran MS-DOS/Windows; because i'm used to it; because it looks prettier; because it's more user-friendly (not so much as opposed to the Mac, but definitely so as opposed to Linux); because all of the great applications that i can't live without (Winamp, Photoshop, Flash MX, Nero, Exact Audio Copy) aren't found on Linux; the list goes on.
I LIKE Linux, i LIKE the Mac; i don't use my computer for playing games (except frozen-bubble :D), i don't use my computer ENTIRELY for chatting with my school friends (like most 15-year-olds i know), i have a little bit of programming/scripting/"getting into the system" experience, and i'd like to think that i know what i'm doing.
So, as an objective observer, i would like to just make my disagreement known.
At home (dual boot):
games, and some multimedia editing software. I could technically do without it, but I keep it around for convenience and because I haven't bought a fancy game system yet so I don't have many new games (just old abandonware windows games and stuff). I keep my windows drive in a drawer outside of my computer because I believe in gremlins and voodoo, and all that.
At work:
Specialized Mainframe and Windows based applications that have no linux replacements I guess. That and most of the sysadmins I've talked to have never used linux before.
why run linux and emulate windows to play games and such when you can just run windows? =P sure linux has its advantages but if u don't use em then there's no point to take linux over windows.
> There's nothing keeping me on Windows. I switched to Linux way back in 1997 and never looked back.
<aol>meetoo!</aol> And right about the same time, too.
And it just keeps getting better every year. I can see how someone who actually needed Photoshop or MS Word or some other specific commercial application, or who was addicted to games, wouldn't be able to live on Linux. But for the rest of us, Windows doesn't offer anything we need or particularly need or even want.
I'm still on Red Hat 7.2 / GNOME 1.4, and I don't feel any rush to upgrade. It has gotten to the point that upgrades are luxuries that I do at some convenient time, rather than something that needs to be done to pick up new features as soon as they become available. Back in RH 4.x days I always upgraded immediately, but for the last 2-3 years I've been skipping more and more upgrades.
At any rate, let me emphasize the "never looked back" part.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I used to run linux 24/7, but I found myself in a position where i needed time to work or hang out with my family. Didn't really have time to figure out how to make my web development environment work in linux: config my usb dsl modem (pretty big reason), flash, photoshop, illustrator, (um, plus I code 9 sites written in .asp at my day job).
I have to test in ie and nn, and of course games and the desire to finally have ONE computer on my desk. I have a USR wireless 22 Mbps router, and I don't feel like debugging that on my own.
sure Wine has come a long way, but at the time, it just wasn't there yet. I have used 12 different distros but I just got tired of flipping back and forth.
while I'm on the subject, one of the big draws of linux was the fact that it would smoke on my 333. The last install was practially bloatware, and I got tired of de-installing little widgets. I installed XP, and despite their processor warnings, it ran just fine on a 333.
this must be a hot one, over 1000 comments already.
RealAudio (yes there is streaming content I like that requires it)
Quicktime
Eudora (How to set up a mailing list - friends and family - in KDEmail?)
Generally sound and media software, streamripper, Roxio, etc. Like to capture streaming audio and burn onto CDs, etc.
I'm sure there are open source alternatives to these, but there is a cost/benefit tradeoff in terms of my own time. Do I spend $50 for a Windows product, or spend hours searching for, downloading, and configuring free open source utilities that may or may not work?
If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
Some greeting card software my wife uses, and some games my daughter plays. Otherwise, we can do everything with Linux
Yet Another Web Site
GAMES
And one game in particular:
Need I say more?
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
I use windows because i know how to fix it. Put me in front of a linux box with a bad NIC driver and say fix it, i'd format it. Package installation is another issue i have. i had a devil of a time installing the JRE, could never get it working properly with the program i wanted to use. I am also a very visual person, and in windows, everything has an icon.
Um well mostly because there's no compelling reason not to. I mean sure, Linux costs less up front but everyone knows how much time and effort it takes in the long run. Apple has some nice products but they're quite expensive when you consider they don't actually do anything more than a Windows machine that costs less. Why would I bother switching platforms just to get the same functionality Windows already has?
Well here's the makeup and primary purposes for each system on our tiny little network.
x.x.x.01 - This system, lovingly named FireRush, is a PII-266, 64MB ECC SDRAM (SIMMS remember those?), 1 GB Quantum Fireball Hard Drive, 1 ISA 3 Com 10baseT Card, 1 PCI 3com 3c905b 10/100baset T Card. This system runs linux, kernel. 2.4.3. It serves as: router, NAT box, masquerade server, webserver (apache 2.0.43), roger_wilco server, a local (no external access) FTP server and an SSH server for remote network access. I also use it for various orther jobs which linux tends to handle especially well. It seems to manage our 3mb/s DSL connection quite well, and never uses any of the swap partition. (No monitor, keyboard or mouse attached.)
x.x.x.02 - Internally refered to as NDGhetto, a 1.4GHz T-Bird, 256MB of Ram, 13GB WD Expert, 3com 3c905c Net card. This system runs linux, I can't remeber what kernel and is used as a Half-Life (CS and DoD) server. We actually ran a Natural Selection server on it for a while but it was so popular that it cost us way too much in bandwidth. No monitor, keyboard or mouse attached.)
x.x.x.03 - Remora Prime is one of two sound design workstations. This machine, yes, it runs Windows XP. It's an AthlonMP system with 512MB of RAM and not much more. The system is mated to a relatively high-end sound card, 10 channels of 24/96 audio on high-end converters, ADAT connections, SPDIF, low latency midi (1ms) et all. Our main application is Sequoia, which is only available for Windows. The reason we chose Windows XP is that it can support 32 audio channels, whereas 2000 can only handle 10. I disklike protools, and Sequoia is very powerful, hence the windows choice.
x.x.x.04 - TheDude. This system is the gaming machine and my brother's workstation. It's an AthlonXP with I can't remember what configuration because he upgrades so often. He uses Windows 2K and has recently started dual booting with Mandrake to get to know linux. It has a GeForce3 (Hercules 3DProphet something or other). He plays a lot of Natural Selection and DoD.
x.x.x.05 - Headrush. This system is a PIII 500, 384MB of RAM, 4GB UWScsi disk, and runs Windows98. This system is taken to all of my band's Gigs. It has a 4 in 4 out, high-end soundcard (also 24/96), and is used as a softsynth/sampler at all of our shows. It has crashed only 1 durring it's time in use (over two years.) We also use it as a backup if we need 2 extra A/D converters because we can sync this card to the more powerful soundcard and track to the main workstations hard drives. It runs Reason2, B4 and Pro53 during most of it's cycles.
So you can see that linux has a very important part in our network. We use it every day, even if only transparently. Unfortunately until the Dimudi project comes to fruition, and until ProTools revamps it's interface, Windows will remain our primary platform for audio work.
That's it.
no text
I've tried Mandrake 8.1 and it just didn't offer me anything really great and new. Sure, I loved the multiple desktop feature (KDE) and other points in the GUI but that's where my positive experience ended. First problem was programs. I'm sure that it had several programs installed that anyone who is refined at Linux could configure to do what I wanted to do but I couldn't. Here's a few examples.
I needed/wanted to run FTP-server like I did with my WinNT. Mandrake comes with several programs so let's see if they have one readily installed. Nope, I didn't see one. I hear that it has command prompt driven one. I have no idea how to use such as I've grown accustomed to excellent G6ftp. So I try to find a clone. Where do I search? as I have no idea where to download Linux-apps I head to Tucows. damn, nothing worthwhile there. Fast search with google for graphical linux ftp-server doesn't give any results either. So that means no FTP-server for me.
Well I dont let that press me down, I think I'll head for IRC. I'm happy to see that KVirc is installed. After some usage I've grown disillusined about it, plain old mIRC was way superior. I guess I could enchance it with a bit of scripting. Unfortunately KVirc-scripts and mIRC scripts arent interchangeable (not even with a single line scripts, altrough I admit I didn't try many examples).
Well no problem, I've heard about Wine so I could set up my favorite. Now, I find no fast & easy way to install it so I go ask for help (Altrough in my opinion, the point you have to ask for help/consult the manuals the point(G)UI planing has failed, G6ftp is again an excellent example of a good GUI planning, you dont have to know anything to get a program running, much less read documentation). Now I'm led to command prompt, place I especially wanted to avoid as it is (to me) the pinnacle of bad planning and non-intuitiviness. So I write some cryptic commands that I dont understand along the instructions and get errors. After several tries I give up.
Now let's go browse. Good, there is a browser installed. It's slower then Explorer was but not painfully so. It's just your good plain old average browser. Like every other browser out there it also crashes. I somehow find the tool to kill unresponsive windows. I click the tab for the program in the taskbar. It kills the taskbar. Damn. No ways out of the problem, better reboot.
Reboot also takes time, like in Windows. Maybe I should draw something? Except that PSP doesn't work in Linux and learning to master (well, to use somewhat competently in my case) an image editor is a truly time-consuming process, not one I'm willing to undertake without a good reason.
Well how about my webserver, could I get it running? as there again doesn't seem to be any graphic & Intuitive shortcut to running Apache I'm again led to the command prompt. Luckily this time it's a short visit, Apache gets up and running quite fast. It seems that Linux has some good apps available afterall. Exept that I know I could also get Apache for Windows.
In Summary, I found Linux marginally slower then WinNT, a bit less unstable (it crashed on me several times for no reason). Lacking good & familiar apps. Only good app I found was Apache and that was also the only one of the group available for Windows. Not to mention the lack of games.
After some time I finally uninstalled it and went back to Windows. And no, I haven't regretted that. Linux didn't do anything for me that I couldn't do in Windows and that is what counts.
So, in short, why should I change?
I tried linux a few years ago (1998, I think) and I was unfortunate enough to have a winmodem.
I did not discover this at first, because the linux "help" forums were less than what they claimed. I would hear "RTFM" at least twice per inquiry. I got laughed at for asking what RTFM meant.
With such a friendly user base, who wouldn't want to use Linux? I finally gave away my distro CDs to someone who thought they could get use out of them. I know I didn't.
Windows > Nix for the desktop user. There is nothing that linux does better, only worse.
Why trade a great desktop OS for one that whose primary strength is in the server market where you get things configured and let it fly.
1) Any nix GUI blows in comparison to XP/OS X
2) Few Games with substandard performance (see below)
3) Driver Support
4) Is a rightous pain in the ass to install and configure software/hardware.
5) Application support
I'm not trying to knock linux, it is a fantastic server OS but there are a TON of hurdles it must overcome to ever be in contention as a desktop OS of choice.
I have been a software developer for 35 years, and have used a lot of systems. I was using Unix at home before I had Windows (1983), and I still like many things about Unix (and find it incomprehensible that Microsoft architects keep missing the simple concept of pipes, command line scripting, and links).
That being said, I use Windows2000 for almost everything I do. I have literally hundreds of applications that I use for work, for my hobbies, and to keep track of things (such as stock market tracker, weather alert, etc). Few run on Linux. ALL of these run on windows, are easy to get and easy to install. Even most open source software worth having has a windows port or build kit. Applications software is the main driver for the Windows monopoly, and this follows a historical precedent starting with the IBM-360 in the early '60s.
Windows is compatible with all PC hardware I want to buy (except a few things that I need Windows98 or WindowsXP for). It is usually a no-brainer to install new hardware. Hardware compatibility is another driver of the Windows Monopoly
I like the user interface of windows. Microsoft has a lot more money to spend in user interface engineering and experimentation. Almost anything I want to do is accessible with point-and-click. I probably RTFM for windows or windows software about once per year! Try that with Linux!
When I want Unix functionality, I can get it easily (and do) with Cygwin. I normally have 7 Cygwin windows open on my three-LCD desktop, and I use VI for my text editor (I still cannot figure out how anyone can do software editing faster with a mouse-oriented editor). I run postgresql on Windows2K and develop in Java, C and cross-assembly (for embedded machines). I user a commercial X-windows package on the rare occasions when I need to access my Linux system.
Yes, I have Linux. I use it as a file backup machine. Occasionally it is the right place to do development. The area where it shines is in low level development. In Windows development, if you don't spend all your time memorizing stuff or RTFM'ing, you either operate at a high level (and have little idea what the underlying leaky abstractions are doing), or you do trivial things. As a systems programmer, I find that frustrating.
I don't like Microsoft's monopolistic behavior. I really fear that they will gain monopolies in more applications areas and in services. However, I don't mind that much that they have a monopoly in desktops, because with the current state of software and hardware engineering, it is inevitable that some standard will be chosen by the market, and become a monopoly.
If I ran the world, Microsoft would be split up. The monopoly areas (Windows, MS Office) would become two separate companies. The rest would go into a third, which would be required to compete on a level field with the rest of the world. I resent monopoly rents being used to subsidize attacks on other markets.
The only good weather is bad weather.
Video games. The video games on PCs are the best in the world.
it doesnt take a genius to install wine and nvidia drivers.
/mnt/cdrom/ /mnt/cdrom/install.exe .transgaming/c_drive/program\ files/game/game.exe ./play game lol
rpm -ivh nvidia-glx-whatever.rpm
rpm -ivh nvidia-kernel-whatever.rpm
rpm -ivh WineX-2.whatever.rpm
mount
winex
winex
The only thing keeping us on Microsoft products is that there are no good project management apps. We have searched high and low for good open source CPM, scheduling and project management tools, but haven't found any as good as the commercial Windows products that are out there. For the construction industry, these tools are vital, because margins are so small and any slip up is deadly.
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill.
Linux - of the people, by the people, and for the people.
But, the thing is that UNIX/Linux can no more afford to junk the X APIs than Microsoft can afford to junk the Window GUI APIs. All the software depends on them.
OTOH, over the last 15 years there have been several implementations of X that make the X server either part of OS or a special shared library that is directly callable. Both of the approaches give you a blazingly fast desktop, while preserving the X APIs. All this without having to give up the X protocol and the ability to run remote applications.
What I'm taking about is NOT the same as putting a GUI in the OS as Windows has done. The window manager, the desktop look and feel, the font server, these are stay out in user space. It *IS* the same as having a file system that lets you access your hardrive as files and directories rather than as tracks and sectors. It *IS* the same as using a file system to let many applications share the diskdrives. Only in this case you have a graphics system that lets you use and share the graphics hardware in a nice way. It is also similar to "tux" in the kernel. It was put in the kernel to proved a blazingly fast HTTP server, not because anyone thinks that every kernel needs an HTTP server built into it!
Make the X server a loadable module or add the hooks needed to create a multi-threaded, thread safe shared library, and get on with it. Kill this stupid problem now.
Stonewolf
1. Many, if not most games never get ported to Linux/Mac, or get poorly ported, or you have to use an emulator which makes them suck. 2. I take my work home a lot (that way the boss only keeps my in the office for double overtime instead of locking me in there all night). I need to use specific software packages, and most of them are Windows only. Also, I had to buy the licenses for them, often at not inconsiderable price, so I don't feel like converting. 3. It's good enough. No matter how much I might dislike Microsoft or Windows, it does the job. It has its flaws, but I've yet to see one I can't deal with (albeit usually by installing third-party software). If there was a real impetus to not use Windows I would. But as it is, it's just an inferior product in some respects. And those shortcomings don't make up for the first two points.
I use a Mac at work (Graphic Design) with OS 9.2.1 all day long. I use Quark, Illustrator, and Photoshop mainly. These can only run on linux using Wine or something similar, although I don't believe Quark works and don't even get me started on Gimp because it isn't jack shit to Photoshop/Imageready 7 duo.
Then I go home to my Windows XP PC. I want to play NWN, GTA3, and WC3. Only one of these will eventually be able run on Linux natively and the others only half-ass on Wine.
Then I go to the Coffee shop with my latop. I want to sit down, have a cup of plain black coffee and write a short story, poem, thesis, maybe surf the internet or send some emails. I'm using Linux on a Thinkpad and it's great.
Of course the sound card isn't supported in Mandrake 8.2, and I had to switch from my 3com 10/100 card to an intel 10mb card for it to be able to hook up on my network at the house. Not to mention I had to play around with Hard Drake and Several Alsa Drivers to find out that the specific sound card in the thinkpad 1400i is TOTALLY NOT COMPATIBLE and will never play sound for me.
But thats ok I can listen to cd's when I reboot in XP and it recognizes everything just fine.
Ave Molech Setting
Easy, it's.. Developers! Developers! Developers!
I use Windows as my desktop because X chugs too much, even with the accelerated nVidia drivers. X just doesn't make for a good desktop unless you are willing to spend a week trying to get it to work right. Not to mention I like to take in the occasional game every now and then, and given the choice between TuxRacer and GTA3...
:)
Also, as iterated before in this discussion, w2k and XP are pretty stable.
But then there's Linux. I use Linux because it's a rock solid server that I don't have to reboot every time software gets installed, a patch is released, or the IP needs to be changed. If it crashes (usually because I screwed something up), it's not some black hole that I have to guess what's wrong with it (Is it AD? The file system? The registry? Some rogue driver? The boot sector???)
As much as it might burn your ears to hear me say it, until X and its desktops evolve some more, my mantra will be "Windows on the desktop, Linux as the server". That is, unless otherwise dictated by corporate policy
-R
I have tried twice in the past to try to switch cold turkey over to linux (whether it be slackware or Mandrake) and both times I ended up coming back to windows. I believe the main problem would be the little things: I couldn't get the ICQ clone working or one program kept crashing and I didn't know the equivalent of the ctrl-alt-del and so had to restart my system. The apps were somewhat of a problem because I had to learn a whole different way of doing things, I am not saying that this was bad, but it was new and therefore took much effort.
My current approach (which seems to be happening automatically) is on my normal browsing the internet system, I am starting to intsall various open source apps like open office and phoenix to slowly ween myself from the windows versions. I often find they are better (mouse gestures anyone?) Or the price is right (I got tired of finding a copy of Office 97 in my house).
I guess the previous two attempts really just didn't work out because it took so much effort to switch, and with a busy schedule, I didn't always have time to look at the HOWTO or readme when I wanted to use a simple mail filter, or mount the installation CD. Yes I know all of this stuff is out there in HOWTO's but it is sometimes very spread out and verbose. Maybe there is (or should be) a place where simple to use documentation on windows equivalents in linux could be briefly (and if desired verbosely) for things from ctrl-alt-dels to shortcuts.
my $0.02
I'm a stupid user. Even when I'm coding, I like to treat my system as if I'm a stupid user. It's a magic box with a demon inside who does more or less what I tell him to do.
I hate Windows because it's unstable, and I'm not fond of Microsoft's business practices, so I'd love to switch. Ideally, I'd like to switch to some free software *nix. But I don't want to have to think so hard about getting my system up and running. I want to know that most software I want to run will run, without worrying about Wine or such things.
The alternatives are catchnig up, but still it looks like if I drop Windows for my next machine I'll go Mac instead of *nix.
I do everything on Linux - coding (vi), e-mail (evolution), web browsing (galeon), AIM (gaim), music (xmms), p2p (napshare), word processing (OpenOffice.org), and file management (nautilus/gThumb) - except manipulating graphics. I know there's GIMP, but it's just not as fast or as easy to use as Photoshop.
I know that Photoshop is available for Mac, but I'm too cheap to switch to Mac, and I like my swappable PC hardware.
If GIMP or another OSS program like it were as usable as Photoshop, I'd wipe my Win2k partition faster than you can say fdisk.
Yes, many people swear by it, but I am definatly not one of them. I have Photoshop, which I dislike, but The Gimp is an exercise in awesome horrible. "The Gimp Sucks" is not the only thing which keeps me on windows, rather it is an example which shows the User Interface problems with many linux programs: They are great programs which have the ability to do powerful things, but for the most part they have a horrible user interface which slows down productivity considerably. The interfaces I have seen (I have said this before) remind me a lot of when I used to draw pictures in, well probably before pre-school age.. I gave everyone arms and legs and a head and a belly button, but I could never remember if a mustache went above or below the nose. Linux UIs remind me a lot of the resulting pictures. Doing their best to /immitate/ what a good user interface should be, but unsure if the mustache goes above or below the nose. The Gimp is an example of the result, eeyes, x-chat, they're things which do well, but make it hard to do it, or certain things hard to do. So what keeps me in windows is the user-interface. Some things which I consider to be important just dont seem to be priorities in OSS projects.
I tend to stay in debian, but when I want to edit an image or something, I always go back to windows.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
It's just that simple. It's a royal pain in the ass to configure correctly, and when it finally is running, the fonts are butt ugly.
Working in an x-windows based window manager is an ergonomic fustercluck. It's hard keeping your mind on your tasks when you're constantly reminded of clunkiness. Keeping mental state of all the quirks is mental time I could dedicate to my work.
Frankly, x-windows and the window managers that sit on top if it are the human interface equivalent of heavy lifting with your back. A poor imitation of crufty dinosaur GUI's.
I use macs as my workstation boxen and Unix for headless applications. *nix is definitely my operating system of choice, and all my systems run some flavor of it. I use OpenBSD for infrastructure nodes and Linux for development and deployment servers.
My OS X box is my workstation. The interface isn't perfect but it's comfortable and easy. I'm very productive in it, and I never tire of it. If it's in my way, I use bash. It's also nice to have Photoshop on a *nix for the price of a PC.
The rest of my machines don't even have x-windows installed. No GUI at all. Stripped down and optimized for the task at hand.
I think the best way to get Linux past the desktop barrier is to fix the GUI so it doesn't suck so bad. Rewrite it, wave a dead chicken over it, whatever it takes. Otherwise, it never will be a serious contender for something people have to stare at all day and develop a working relationship with.
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
If as many games were available on Linux or any other OS I would permanently switch to using Linux. Free alternatives to almost every other type of Windows applications already exist so games are definitley the biggest factor.
There are some other programs that are only available under Windows such as 3D modelling/rendering apps but other than that I really wouldn't need anything else.
I'm pretty certain that to give any other OS a fighting chance against Windows we'd have to start convincing a large number game developers to start supporting that OS. And the usual argument by Linux zealots that goes something like "use SDL!" or "use GLUT!" simply doesn't work. Until someone implements a working DirectX wrapper for Linux (to my knowledge there are a few such projects somewhere on SourceForge but they're moving fairly slowly) game developers are unlikely to even bother with Linux (sure there'll always be some game developers that will go out of their way to get their game to run on Linux but that is usually out of good will).
IMHO Linux as an operating system is not very impressive. Aside from the kernel that's pretty good even though bloated with functionallity and not very flexible everything else is in fact pretty bad. X Windows with just about any fancy window manager becomes a real memory hog and is quite slow as well. Not to mention that every application under Linux has it's own interface and none really follow any guidelines. There is no consistency.
The main thing Linux has going for it is it's relatively large user base compared to other free OS-s and very good support for modern hardware.
If game developers massively started making games for Linux that would be a start to overthrowing Windows. Eventually a better free OS will come out, it's just a matter of time...
... my box here at home is a dual-boot, and even though I am most of the time running Linux, I read Slashdot many times a day, as long as I am connected, no matter the OS. So, I do help increase Win-related hits on the logs, but I've "put my money where my mouth is": my OS of choice is definitely Linux, and if it were not for the games, chances my box would have Win would be zero.
Windows 2000 - I haven't rebooted my main workstation in something like 4 months and counting. Sorry, that stability argument doesn't work with me.
The apps I like are on Windows.
The games I love are on Windows.
I grew up with Windows/DOS - I know it from the inside out and can fix virtually anything.
I'm a network admin - my company is all MS...
However - despite all of this - I love Linux. My second workstation is Linux. I'm liking it more and more. Why am I going to switch soon? I'm sick of MS...it's too easy. I'm not learning anymore, and I want a challenge. I don't like their new licensing scheme - here at a large company, we have the potential to get raped here soon.
Anyway....just random thoughts.
Normaly if i sit on them they break.
;-)
Now if it where Open Windows
Just when i wrote that last line i had an idea,
if we got OpenBSD and FreeBSD why not OpenWindows and FreeWindows, yeah we got wine and people trying make an OS around it, but are there any win32 compatible Operating systems out there ?
To me Mac is a poor choice. Talk about monolpoly: they are both OS and hardware. Who makes Macs? Only Apple, limiting competition and allowing them to demand premium pricing. Face it: Macs are overpriced for what they do.
Plus, Apple is notorious for upgrading their OS and leaving a trail of broken software to wait for updates. Even worse, they don't play fair with 3rd party hardware vendors. Such as with the iMovie. It will only write to the installed Apple DVD-R and refuses to work with 3rd party burners. When a retail outlet was giving a crack away to make it work, Apple wasted no time in hardlining them to stop.
How about Apple's hatred of LINUX due to the hacking of their proprietary ROMS to make LINUX boot on a Mac? Or the way they baited BeOS for purchase, instead bought NeXT and then basically forced BeOS off their platform.
I think OS X is a wonderful operating system. I just wish it ran on other platforms. And, BTW, does Apple really think you only need one mouse button???
#1 - Photoshop
#2 - Macromedia Flash
When they make these for Linux, I'll never use Windows again.
$ Stu --help
To some people, the choice of computer or operating system is not a political or moral question. It is instead a question of (somewhat) personal preference and (mostly) using the right tool for the job. I'm not going to fall into the usual trap of making absurd analogies involving Microsoft and historic villains or Linux and hippies, but the Slashdot community in general has a huge tendency to make a mountain out of this particular molehill. It's not that important what name is on your OS directory, as long as the computer does what you ask it to.
idiots sending attachments in ppt/doc format instead
of in Portable Document Format.
I agree. While his prose is reminiscent of the early English trolls of the 1700s, his clear and obvious misunderstanding of what Slashdot is harkens back to the post-fascist-neo-fuckian writers who were in fashion in the 20s.
As I glanced at the sidebar (Apache, Apple, Books, Science, YRO, etc.) noticing that the only Linux references were his post and the Penguin icon up top, I couldn't help but feel sorry for him. Perhaps one day a good troll coach can give him the training he needs to be a first-class troll. We can only hope.
We expect a better calibre of troll these days. Is this fair to the lesser trolls? Maybe not, but that's how things are. Here... at Slashdot... which is about "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters."
Filthy F. Coont, America's Science Whore and Troll Critic
===
- I am made of meat.
I use Debian (and sometimes FreeBSD) for almost every server, and if not, then some other unix variant.
However, for my desktop machine, I'd really rather keep it simple. Explorer (the shell) is pretty unstable, but its very well organized. That, and the way the desktop interacts with the filesystem (I use the desktop as a temporary directory, pretty much), pretty much make up why I don't use linux on my desktop.
Lindows looks promising, but I don't want to screw around with a half-windows, half-linux OS. Are there any window managers or display managers that can give me simplicity, and SPEED, while integrating nicely? If there is, I'd be more than happy to kiss my windows installation good-bye!
Windows at work (because I am forced to use it there), Linux at home. I do have 1 windows box a Pentium 233MMX. I use it for quicken, and Windoze Media Player (NFL games only stream in that format). Everything else I use Linux on my AMD Athlon XP 2100+. MMMMMMMMmmmmm Linux on AMD (drool..).
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
Being a professional musician, I use the system that has the most and highest quality music, audio, and video production applications. Unfortunately, this means Windows XP... Or, the alternative, if you swing that way, being a Mac system. Both platforms offer top-notch sequencers, video/audio editors, plug-in effects, and soft synths. Unfortunately, Linux seriously lacks in this department. When Sonar, Wavelab, Sound Forge, Avid, Vegas, TC Spark FX, Waves Native Gold, and the slew of other plug-ins/synths I use get ported to, and/or have comparable alternatives to them on the Linux platform, then I switch. :-) Till then, SIGH, Windows it must be.
At least Linux has decent *drivers* for my hardware.... It's a start!
And I'll say it again. I'm the geekiest guy I know. I ran a BBS in the 90s, have earned a few bucks setting up an office network and am generally known as the local/family tech guru. I've used Windows, OS 9, OSX and BeOS, but no linux. BUT I've never even seen a computer running Linux. At least not with it's monitor on.
...and OS X comes on expensive hardware. I just grad'd and run a PII 400 Mhz. I could consider Apple hardware for the soon-to-be neccesary upgrade, but it's only worth it in my mind at the high end or laptops. Neither of which I have managed to justify in the wallet yet ;-).
Why?
Because most of my friends are not geeks. I'm not in comp sci. I don't run servers and I have only ONE computer. Windows may not be pretty, but it functions on par with 95% of the world. Sometimes that's enough.
Mostly, I don't like screwing around with the operating system. As a student, if my computer didn't work, I was fu**ed. A new OS gave me lots of chance to screw things up. As did its installation.
When BeOS offered the "install through windows" they got me. I tried it. I liked it, but the apps weren't there. The company also went out of business, so I gave up. If linux offered a similar thing? I'd be there. I might even pay to try it out.
I finally got "willing to pay money" fed up with Win 98 last year. I formatted my computer and set it up with a new partition for eventual dual boot. I moved up to XP for $50 (MS deal) a few months ago. It's slower than I'd like (old hardware, but has better stability)
(Key to this was XP offered me a program to check if my system was compatible.)
Will I putting Linux on there to play around? Maybe, if I get bored, but probably not. My GF needs it for her grad school. If it's down--I'm Fu**ed (or not getting... F'd as the case may be)
But in the end. I won't see it, unless *I* install it. And that's "expensive" timewise. Neither will any of the people around me. (My GF is still confused by my two weeks of switching between OS's as I moved things I needed over)
I'll have to go to significant effort just to learn what is neccesary to install. It's a lot of work--with a guarantee that things will be different, but not neccesarily better.
Mostly, asking to use Linux is like asking me to try out this great new product--and if I walk across town I have a chance to buy it without getting to kick a tire.
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
My desktop and my laptop all run GNU/Linux. But, I keep around one old machine with Windows 98. Why? Because once a year I need to do my taxes and the choice is to either have them done by an accountant, or have one machine that can run Windows. I can not find tax preperation software for Linux.
:-)
Oh, I suppose I might be able to find tax prep software for the Mac. And, when I'm rich enough to need the accountant I'll be rich enough to buy a Mac and that Rolls I've been wanting...
No, really, the Mac is not an option for me. Way to expensive. I can build 3 good PCs for the price of one Mac.
Seriously, Have have nothing against Macs, they're great. I just won't pay that much for a computer.
Stonewolf
Ideologically I don't really like forking over my money to a huge corporation like Microsoft. Computationally I don't like an OS that has 128M of RAM and 1.5 gigs of space as a requirement (WinXP, I'm looking in your direction). Interface-wise, look at the default layout of XP. Enough said about that.
But the fact is, it works. Whenever anything I might need comes out, it's available almost instantly for Win2K (my Windows of choice). The Office file formats are de facto standards, even if the pirce for them is outrageous. It tells me when I need to update and patch the system, even if that little box comes up much more often than it should. When I reformat, I can reboot with the CD in the drive, select a few options, and half an hour later my system will be up and running, having located all the right drivers for what I have. It's stable - I think the only time I've had a Win2K crash was when I tried to launch 300 instances of WinAmp at once.
So in short, it does the job. Ideologically I may not like it, but when I have to reformat and write a ten page essay in one night, ideology won't help me. Speed and efficiency will. For better or for worse, I've been using Windows for about eight years - I know how it works, I know how to do what I want with it, and I have no practical reason to switch. Give me a Linux that does what I want it to do, in a way that I know how to do, and has software/is compatible with other system, and you'll have a new user. But not until then.
Bottom line: W2K is the right tool for the job. Make Linux that tool and you'll have more people using it. But right now, Winxx does the job.
Cue The Sun...
Oh joy, I can play Neverwinter Nights what, 6 months after it came out on Linux? What about the games I'm playing right now, like Time of Defiance, Earth and Beyond, Battlefield 1942, and within a week, the C&C Generals MP Beta? At work, I work. Our custom applications are all based on Windows, I use them, and we deal, because I have no other choice. However, when I get home, I want to have fun, and I can do that far better on my Windows PC than I can my Linux box. I can install any new game I want and be playing it within minutes on what (for me at least) is a rock-solid Windows XP desktop. Until I can go into a store and buy any game I desire and play it on my Linux box just as easily as I can with my Windows box, my XP system will remain my primary PC, and Linux will sit over on my other desk.
Cause it's doing a kickass job being my server! It's keeping my Pentium 233 alive and well.
::)
The apps that keep me on the windows platform(2000/XP really):
A) Macromedia Suites
B) Games
C) Hardware
The last being because I'm a hardware nut. I enjoy tinkering with the lastest drivers and getting the best performance.
But I would never ever consider running 2000 as a server, overbloated peice of crap.
Using Linux as a desktop OS was fine when I was mroe into coding C/C++, but it is of my opnion now that all those KDE/Gnome coders would be better off bettering such extremely important OSS projects like Apache.
It kind of reminds me of M$ trying to get into the server market. They were trying their darnest to get a desktop OS to be a server OS. Something Linux is trying to do in reverse and simply doesn't have the cohesion to accomplish. imho
(The above was written while on heavy painkillers a few days after a tonsillectomy, I apologize for the jaggidness of my flow
-- taking over the world, we are.
At work I have no choice - Windows or get a different job so I deal with it. However at home only one thing keeps a Windows machine running = the 3.5 inch memory stick reader for the digital camera.
My other car is a motorcycle!
Visual Studio .NET - No competing product on linux
Word - Sure I could use Open Office, but the UI sucks
PowerPoint - I won't even go into how KDE and OpenOffice handle powerpoint
PDF - Adobe is easy on windows, a Pain in the ass on linux
UI - Some of the less popular apps just don't live up to the windows equivalents
Windows XP - stable and easy to use
First and most important for me is the ability to use voice commonunation, my typing is slow and for me I just can't get across the same emosional response in typing, plus my cheep Logitech Quick Cam is not supported in Linux. Second, the usaul games and stuff. I am a real fan of Linux and how it can be configured (once you get over the dependance hell) but over all even with those restrants I would prefer being in Linux all the time and not have to reboot just for those few things..
i've got the only GNU/linux installation on the desktop at work. all of our servers are GNU/linux. at home i have to run win2k for my wife. or rather, i had to run win2k for my wife. after getting really really pissed when the system locked up on her after her 20+ pages of paper on three different occasions (yeah she's got the autosave turned on but she's pissed that shes spending more time rebooting than writing her term papers) and now she wants me to install GNU/linux with openoffice on there. i'm doing that this weekend. so whoever says their win2k never crashes, well you're one lucky SOB. but now that the boss says it's ok to run GNU/linux on her machine, i'm all Free!! so to answer your question, nothing. nothing is going to keep me from running GNU/linux.
and yes i do prefer to say GNU/linux. because i'm running linux for the GNU part of the equation.
Did you convince yourself of all the above yet? :)
You can write some more if it will help you feel OK about yourself.
- I am made of meat.
It's pr0n. If you really want Linux to take over the world, make it the only platform that supports a revolutionary new form of virtual sex.
Like Dennis Miller said, "If some unemployed punk in New Jersey, can get a cassette to make love to Elle McPherson for $19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going to make crack look like Sanka."
I just bought a TiBook, 867Mhz, for $250 off as an open-box deal. This... was a dangerous trip. And I love it. I'm standing in the store waiting for it to get a RAM install done, then I get to take it home. Sigh. I am -so- broke now. :)
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
1) Games. 'Nuff said. Though, most of the games I really really like to play (SMAC, NWN, Myth II, Nethack, Ultimas) already run on Linux, or are coming. 2) Video capture and editing. (the fact that nvrec almost works and almost keeps sound in sync and almost does tolerable bitrate MPEG isn't enough. VirtualDub on Win98 works 100% =) 3) Um... yeah, and my scanner (CanoScan D660U) isn't supported by SANE. That's
I've been a Linux user since 1996, and at one point used it exclusively. Now I exclusively use Windows 2000 on the desktop, although I still use a (GNU/) Linux box as a server of sorts. There are a lot of reasons why I switched back to Windows (on the desktop), but here are a few:
This list is just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other reasons, but it's past 5 on a Friday and I want to go home.
No doubt a dozen people will reply telling me I'm an idiot and all these things are possible under Linux. I agree with you, however the last thing I want to do after spending 9 hours coding at work is come home and f#ck with my Linux machine trying to get everything working perfectly, only to have everything break when I upgrade it. I use Linux for my home server, but it's not worth the aggravation of setting up for my home desktop. IMHO Linux just isn't there yet for home desktop use. It isn't too hard to install Windows 2000 and get everything working perfectly. As long as it's behind a router or firewall it's reasonably secure, and I have the Linux server for all my needs that windows can't do. I'm not saying Linux doesn't have advantages over Windows, because it certainly has a ton. I'm just answer the question of why I use Windows on my desktop and not Linux..
P.S. And don't think I gave Bill any money. My 2000 didn't cost me a thing.
Because most of us here love Linux so much that they want to have sex with the penguin and hate Windows/Bill Gates to much that they want to see them f**ked by a penguin, I'm likely going to get flamed or ignored or whatever, but here goes...
The reason is simple. Windows is clearly the most widely used end-user-based O/S. We continue to use Windows on our end-user systems because that's what everyone uses -- especially in the workplace. Linux is not user-friendly so it doesn't make sense to deploy it or any other *nix based system across the workplace because supporting it would be a nightmare to say the least.
Every O/S has its place. Windows belongs on the desktops of the typical users, because that's what typical users can understand (not to mention much more idiot-proof than something more powerful is). It also belongs on our desktops because we need to support those users, communicate with them effectively, develop on them, etc, etc. Pick your flavor of unix/linux and that belongs on the back-end. I wouldn't want to run Linux/Solaris/FreeBSD/whatever on the user's desk any more than I would want to use my Windows Server to power my huge DB that serves 10,000+ users worldwide. It is that need to keep Windows on the desks of users that keeps Windows on my desk.
Personally, I have my windows machines, and I also have a FreeBSD box sitting on my desk (I use both O/S's at home, too). But most of my time is spent on my Windows machines because that's where my work is done.
Don't expect there to be too many of the hottest and coolest games showing up on linux anytime soon, either. There's no market for it -- because only geeky types like us give a rat's rump.
Flame me up -- but you know it's the truth. If you're still unwilling to admit it, I have a stuffed penguin you can perform unspeakable acts on.
gOShell.
I'd like to see ports of UltraEdit, Microsoft Word, and Windows Explorer. Vi, Emacs, OpenOffice, Koffice, Konqueror, Nautilius just don't cut it for me. The reason I said ports and not alternatives is because I'd get slaughtered with replies mentioning the above-mentioned replacements. Clones would be acceptible as long as they offer most of the functionality (possibly more) at the same performace and stability (possibly better).
I'll take your work that you're sincere, but I really have to say that you've either configured your Linux systems wrong (don't have DRI working, perhaps?) or you're just letting your assumptions about X cloud your judgement.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Personally, I've never owned any computer that ran Windows. I once had a 8088 that ran DOS, and that's it.
Granted, sometimes I browse slashdot from NT (like right now), but that's because it's forced upon me at work.
At least mafia-owned pizzarias make excellent pizza. Compare to Bill Gates.
Here's why.
;)
Forget work, forget the suped-up "performance" issues and consider the learning curve.
I have been a network (now security) consultant for nine years. I bit my network teeth on Novell. I started with PCs on DOS and fought the Windows 3.1 switch. I didn't like Windows 95 all that much. NT 4.0 wasn't much better but Windows 2000 and now XP are very very stable, performance is great and ease of use is 1st class.
Now before you tear me apart, read on:
#1. out of the box Windows XP sucks. The interface is horrendeous, the performance is a drag and being forced to use IE/MediaPlayer, etc is just a the pits.
#2. Linux/Unix out of the box is even worse. When I undertook the Linux knowledge gain I knew it would be a challenge but when it took 30minutes and access to multiple sites to change the XWindows Desktop size (from 1024x768 to 800x600) I realized there was a problem (gosh! don't bother editing XF86config do it in XF86config.4 Duh!)
#3 When I bit the bullet and installed XP after I spent the required two hours tweaking it I had a very usable OS.
#4. Don't knock the performance either. I live in a rural community and support many poor home users. A natural environment for linux right? After the third install, constant phone calls, etc I switched them all back to Windows. Now I make EVERYONE buy Windows XP. I have XP running on a Pentium 266 with 64MB ram and it works great (check out tweakxp.com)
Sorry Linux. I love ya, I use ya all the time but until XWindows/KDE/GNOME/etc start matching the ease of use (and stability) of Windows it is a no go for me. I use Linux for what I think it was made for. Console/remote access/pentration testing.
***
I apologize for the above statement and will now go back and hide in my hole!
Mabbe Apple will have a 30 % price reduction this ThanksGiving..
:D
And all those bajillions of Mac-wannabes will rush to the stores.. and buy a Mac or two.
And lo! Mac will outnumber Linux 10 to 1!!
Steve, plz give us cheap Mac this Holiday season!!
Games thats the only thing that ties me to it i play far to many games for my own good so thats what ties me to windows if games developers started making linux versions for all games that had same or similar release date to windows version id switch to linux in a heartbeat
I use Win2K at home and love it. Its stable, runs everything I need, and is fast. I have Linux (RedHat) installed on my desktop, but don't use it much. I would use it more, but it crashes every few minutes due to a bug in the network card drviers I have. There has only been one set made (and those took me over a year to find). The driver aparently hard locks the machine whenever the connection gets a little bit of packet loss. The other problem I have with linux is that KDE (and the like) is slow. Everything tends to render much slower than it does in Windows. Getting it to work with my sound card and 3D card has been hell too. Linux is still great for servers, but it has a long way to go on the desktop.
While I absolutely love linux to death and hear wonderful things about Mac OSX, I still use Windows. Windows 98 to be specific. I don't want to upgrade to 2k or XP... why? Because 95% of the stuff I run is legacy applications built specifically for dos or old windows, or just not runnable on linux or macos. Macintoshes are expensive as all getout, while a PC costs you a mere 300$ for a decent system. When you're a poor early 20's youth with a crappy job, cheap is where it's at. Sure I'd love to try mac osx on a nice titanium notebook, and that would probably end up being my notebook of choice for doing audio work (which is what I would use it for) when at a concert or whatnot...
but linux just doesn't support much for audio geeks, and it doesn't support legacy dos apps that well... it also doesn't have the ability to run a majority of the windows software out there and it's impossible to port it over without the sources released.
Linux is wonderful in theory, but Linux also needs to have its head screwed on straight. What's the point in trying to continuously copy microsoft and keep up with where they are going? why isn't linux taking itself to a new level and trying to design a completely new idea on how to use a computer, or at least use the idea of quick, tight, small, optimized code that runs on barebones systems? I've noticed that linux with any of the GUIS usually runs like complete crap compared to windows on a p200 32mb system. Fat lot of good that does most users.
I work in a very small tightly budgeted IT position in a nonprofit orginization. All of our systems are win98 boxes running p200 32mb on average. Linux is hardly a viable option. Windows runs slow enough on these boxes, but having to teach users how to use a mouse is our primary concern, not figuring out how to make (insert windows based app) work in linux.
simply put, linux has come a long way, but it has a LOOOOOOOoonnnnnnng way to go yet...
and mac is expensive. too expensive.
[)(]subliminal labs[)(]
Of all of the machines I have, the Linux box is the hardest to deal with (although installing SuSE fixed a lot of that, and some of it has to do with the security restrictions I've put on the Linux box; I tried Debian on it but removed it after four hours of trying to install the bloody thing and not getting a damned thing working).
I find that I just don't use Linux desktop applications -- they're barely usable -- but I still want the graphical configuration because I don't *like* editing configuration files directly in 90% of cases.
The apps *aren't* there, actually. Among other things, I'm a PalmOS software developer. The tools that I've chosen are primarily available and supported on Windows. They might work under WINE, but I don't have the patience to try. (I also play a number of games, and those are Windows only.)My new favourite language, Ruby, isn't as solidly supported on Mac OS X as it is on Windows (and it's not as solid on Windows as it is on Unices, but it's closer); this is in part because of the act that the windowing isn't X and it doesn't like competing graphical toolkits ...
Of course, to me there is one HUGE reason not to get an iMac: they are the ugliest computers out there. They can't just "hide" -- with an integrated display, they MUST sit on the desktop taking up a set amount of space. Once the iMac is eliminated, the iBook and PowerBook are also eliminated because of the bloody single-button-mouse concept. I'm not 100% certain, but I also think that the rest of the Mac line is eliminated because I use a KVM and it isn't using an all-USB keyboard/mouse setup because my old Linux box doesn't support USB mouse/keyboard (and I don't think that it will support a mixture).
To me, there are also other reasons that I prefer not to use Macs: I don't like the single menubar (this may be changed under OS X; I really don't know); I like the taskbar concept in Windows/KDE. There are others, but ... I might get a Mac ... to replace my Linux box.
Windows XP Pro doesn't suck -- even though the EULA does. I've had *zero* problems with the machines I run (and I run Mozilla and OOo and a lot of non-MS stuff). Also, I prefer laptops at this point. I can get a wider variety of Windows-based laptop formats at this point than I can of any other type. I've got two laptops on the "purchase in the next 12 months" list: a micro-laptop (like the Fujitsu Lifebook or the Sony Picturebook) and another desktop-replacement where I can play the latest games (using the latest ATI or nVidia chip).I don't have anything pirated on my system. I prefer Windows because it works like I expect it to do, at least in a graphical interface. I like Unix-style boxes for servers because they do excatly what I expect them to do there.-austin
Ni bhionn an rath achx mar a mbionn an smacht (There is no Luck without Discipline)
If I didn't like playing tony hawk 3, there would be no need for a windows partition.. so for now I'm stuck with a mandrake/win98 box various other games I have are also the reason.. but as wine and winex development move forward, there is hope
The initial reason for running MS Windows was that "that was what you run" on an x86 platform. Bear in mind this was years ago before Linux surfaced.
.com-generation sites throw mud in the face of all good HTML practices).
Once I started doing development work on Solaris and Irix, I tried out Linux for x86. This was around the time of Linux 1.2.13 using a reasonable Slackware release. However, I still needed to maintain a Windows partition for gaming and the production of reports in MS Word format.
This trend seems to have continued with many people running Linux to do "serious stuff" but then dropping to Windows for Web browsing (and other "Internet Apps"), Gaming, and serious office applications. Let's face it. Until the advent of reasonable font rendering in X, Web browsing using Netscape etc. was a painful experience! (OK so there is lynx but most of the
Even today, I still need to maintain a Windows platform for applications such as Visio for network architecture design and MS Office for 100% compatibility with colleagues. I have managed to transfer all my gaming to the PS2 platform, so no longer need it for leisure apps. Also, Web browsing in apps such as Konqueror and Galeon is (in my opinion) better than in MS Windows Internet Explorer.
So I'm nearly there but its been a very slow process. Even now, I'm not sure that I will finally delete that MS Windows partition while the rest of my contacts and colleagues still rely on MS Office and those applications that are specific to the platform.
As an aside, I would gladly change to a Mac platform, but have a large investment in x86 PC tin that I just can't afford to abandon. Now if only Apple would do a buyback offer...
Contribute to the online videogame encyclopedia: GamerWiki
...that's it. Everything else, I've been able to use something equivalent in Gnu/Linux. I get a rock stable operating system (just checked uptime on my web/dns/file/print serves, and uptime 100 days, 7 hours, 42 minutes, load average 1.00, 1.00, 1.00, and 99 days, 14 hours, 45 minutes, load average 0,0,0.
And the uptimes would be 3 or more months longer if I didn't have to reboot a hundred days ago for one of the security or software patches installed, if memory is correct, it was an optional patch, so reboot wasn't necessary.
I get thousands of applications, an excellent office suite (OOo) that translates other file formats without intentionally breaking others or older versions, rock stable and lightening fast database servers, most widely used mail servers, and so much more.
And, BSA, go take a flying leap. You come to audit my company, and it will be a nightmare for you.
I have just bought some of the Lindows computers at TigerDirect for $230, and they are working great. Now a new station setup costs $230 for hardware (have a ton of monitors, thanks to a certain convention!), the software is legally free, and the equivalent on windows is $200 for client, $500 or $600 or whatever for ms office, $500 or whatever for photoshop, how much for server licenses, client licenses, mail servers, SQL server licenses, what else? And I can really expect 200-300 day uptimes with the mix of ms o/s's out there, right? Let's not forget dropped support, lack of support for the new Office on current OSs still being used (you know, the old forced upgrade...) broken IE, broken IE, broken IE, broken IE, etc.
Just waiting for a Dreamweaver replacement on Gnu/Linux. I've tried Quanta, Bluefish, and a few others. They are just not there yet. I need a good wysiwyg interface for some of the work. They need a lot of work before I can use them. Actually, according to Mr. Lafoon of Quanta, we may see wysiwyg in about a year. I'd hate to wait that long, it may be worth it, but in a year I doubt I'll need wysiwyg.
i've tried linux for desktop. and its sucks. all the warez that support linux just aint good enough. i use my PC for web & graphic designing. and IMHO, theGIMP wants to suck Photoshop's cock. and all the penguins are wanking imagining why there isnt any Macromedia's apps for linux. i dont care much about security. go ahead, exploit my windowze machine. all you gonna find is just a bunch pr0nz folder anyway...i've never use online banking, never click on "remember me" when loggin in and i dont have my PC online 24/7 (get a life you geeks!!!) but i have other machine runnin redhat linux for webserver and file server. and it rocks !!! so i dont 100% hate linux. and im not defending windows either. if i have enough money, i'll jump ship to mac G4 *drool* #start flame here
d035 7hi5 100k 1ik3 4n l337 5i6 2 j00 ?
I used Linux for a little over a year, three years ago. Several reasons forced me back to Windows, one of which was the need to have Visual Studio, but now that I'm a student again, there are still several things keeping me from going back:
.AVI files. It has no Premiere either, but let's not even go there..
.cdi and .nrg image file formats?
Virtual Dub - Linux has no equal for manipulation of
Cubase - Linux has no equal here either. (Installing five different packages of something so I can use something half written in Tcl/Tk and using Motif for a GUI doesn't count.) Likewise, show me how I can load my MIDI soundfonts for my Audigy under Linux automatically with every boot, without having to hack a boot script or cron job. (Or are soundfonts for MIDI even supported under Linux? Last time I checked they weren't..)
Hardware support - ATi Radeon 8500LE is not supported for 3D under Linux. Given as my main field of interest is 3D graphics, and I play with shaders all the time, there's no way in hell I'm going back without this.
Webcam - USB, and not supported under Linux. I'm not going to shell out for another one.
TV Tuner - Hauppauge, but just way too much work to set up under Linux. Would my remote control still work? If not, forget it.
Document support - Can you import PowerPoint files yet? One of my prof's notes are exclusively in those.
CDR burning - Does your burner app support
Games.
And now the biggie--X. I hate it. My reasons:
- It's not the OS, already, get over it. It shouldn't run as root, and it shouldn't be required for advanced graphics support. If someone wants to write a driver for a card, they shouldn't need to target DRI/DRM for best speed. If libGGI and KGI or something similar became the lowest level entry point for graphics, I'd be more than happy to switch back. But as long as X is calling the shots, I'm not interested.
- The interface is not centralized/standardized. Yes, I know why, but that's not why most people who'd use it on the desktop would use it today. (OSes whose interfaces I do like; BeOS, MacOSX.. Heck, even Windows is kinda nice. With Windows XP, you now have network transparency, and quicker than X, too. I think it's time to rethink this one.)
- I need Japanese entry support. Compared to the Microsoft IME, the X entry method is a turd, and a pain to toggle on/off, depending on the application. I'm either logged in in Japanese, or in English; there's no way to have Japanese entry with an English interface. Likewise, behaviour varies from toolkit to toolkit. Crap.
- GNOME is a dog. If you turn up it's settings so that visually, it's halfway acceptable, your speed drops to half, as things that modern video cards can compute easily are done on the CPU. Under Win2k, my Radeon 8500LE cheats, using it's 3D acceleration capabilities to help accelerate transparent objects, from dragged objects to windows to text.
- Windows has more useable fonts available out of the box, period. I don't care if X has more; if it looks like someone spat on the screen, I ain't usin' it.
Whenever there is a neat new technology out it always comes out for Windows first, then *nix, then Mac.
Oh... my... God!!!
Yes, Microsoft invented the graphical user interface, the Internet, mice, laser printing, scanners, placing sampled sounds into games, and on and on.
And thank God they did or no one would have gotten around to it!
Honestly, the biggest thing keeping me in Windows is that whenever I've tried to switch, I invariably end up with some questions and head to IRC, Chat Rooms, etc. to ask people. The flames and insults I get for being a newbie are incredible. I really don't care enough to deal with that while I'm figuring out the intricacies.
Other than that, it's mostly games. Though there are a few other things... Photoshop, Office (Openoffice is close, but not quite close enough), Outlook (this is huge..), etc. I've got a linux box I use for a PHP server, and I've tinkered with it from time to time, but it's not my primary OS.
While I continue to purchase and test GNU/Linux distributions like SuSE, Mandrake and Red Hat, none are currently a 'true' competitor to Redmond.
ALL of the above are getting very close!
Currently, my business clientele are demanding XP for their new computer systems despite the substantial costs associated with this OS.
The latest MS advantage centers around global hardware vendors increasingly building for a Windows platform at the expense of GNU/Linux.
My friends, this is very bad for GNU/Linux!
DirectX has already been ported to 'Nix.
There are two fronts to DirectX on 'Nix; Native PPC/X86 POSIX and Abstracted Win32 X86. Wine was first to implement all the majority of DirectX and Transgaming "borrowed" Wine to fork a new project with greater Direct3D support into a package known as WineX. WineX supports all Direct3D 8 functionality ON NVIDIA CARDS WITH PIXEL AND VERTEX SHADERS ONLY. Ati Radeon is closest to be supported next, however there are serious IP issues and development for RADEON is being sponsered by The Weather Channel's sponsorship of Tungsten Graphics Inc. To comment on WineX's success: good; 95% of all Direct3D and openGL oriented MS Win32 games operate with same functionality, albeit at 50% to 30% slower, and WineX is not limited to games. WineX, however, has taken opportunity and incentive for porting applications directly to Linux; native linux applications operate faster than their MS Windows equivalent and are often more stable and security is much greater in Linux to prevent programs from damaging any particular computer software. For the short term, I recommend WineX. For the long-term, we should always voice our opinion in numbers, that developers should port their software to Linux for the outlined effective reasons. On this subject, Transgaming, the WineX publishers, has declined to make a statement on the long-term goal of WineX other than make Linux a better MS Windows than Microsoft's Windows. And Wine/WineX allow MS Windows Virus(s) to run on your Linux computer and wreak havoc on the personal files allowed to be manipulated. I recommend visiting www.tuxgames.com and supporting Linux gaming by purchasing a Linux game. There are many good ones to choose from. I, personally, have always enjoyed Myth 2, Heavy Gear 2, and Postal. The latest game on Linux will be Majesty; a verry good addition to the medievel era. Also, there is rumor that the Linux Game Publishing group (LGP) will be assisting 3D Realms in porting Duke Nukem Forever more quickly AND a port to Linux will ensue. How's that for fun, eh?
Go get yourself a Radeon 9000 or better videocard, it'll secure your ability for great Linux performance on the future games (such as Doom 3 and Duke Nukem Forever).
warez
1. Performance-wise I prefer DirectX to X
2. The games
3. Cool Edit 2000
4. Forté Agent
5. Cygwin
She didn't mind Linux when I was a newbie using KDE, but I found it a little too bloaty and unstable for my tastes so I switched to WindowMaker. She would probably like it if she took the time to learn it, but in her opinion one of the great advantages of being married to a geek is that she never has to worry about the computer, she can just sit down and use it and it will work, and Windows is what she knows.
Yeah, I could set her up with her own user account with a more familiar desktop, but then she would think I was trying to hide something from her.
On Windows I have installed OSS apps where possible. For the most part Mozilla covers all the wife's needs, since she pretty much just uses it for browsing and email. OpenOffice, PowerDVD, Nero, and Morrowind cover the rest of our Windows use.
Personally, I use Linux for everything except playing Morrowind and watching DVDs. DVDs I just haven't had the time to get working in Linux, and Morrowind taxes my system enough without the added overhead of WINE (assuming it runs on WINE at all, I haven't checked).
I am working toward the day when I can switch my wife over to Linux completely and my Windows partition will become nothing more than a dll repository for WINE.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
What about some of those not-so-technical reasons that many of us use Win instead of Lin as our primary OS...
... 'n stuff
1. Familiarity - Thanks to the 90-something percent market saturation of Windows on desktops, people have just become comfortable with it. Why change if it does most of the things most users need - sometimes price isn't enough.
2. Ease of Use - The existence of command lines in Linux is scary for Win-ers (Windows users), even if they never have to use them. In a fully fleshed out GUI, most users won't need a command line. And, it's not that Windows is a perfect GUI, it's that most Windows users don't know that it could be so much better. (KDE, Gnome, etc. are by no means any better at this point.)
3. Fear of Change - the completely irrational reason that some people will NEVER change from Windows to any other OS. These are the people still using Win95 because they don't want to deal with all the new things that have come up in 7 years. Until it becomes easier to change to Linux than upgrade to another version of Windows, these people are lost. (Side Note: This last sentence probably applies to almost all Windows users to a significant degree.)
4. Lack of Accountability - who will fix it when it breaks? You can't just pay $100 and have your computer shipped to Mandrake (or whoever) for repair. So, until comprehensive warantees come with Linux boxes from Dell, Gateway, HP, or somebody else with a reputation, many small businesses and almost all home users won't cross over.
Now, if you've managed to get this far down in this post, I applaud you. So, next is my disclaimer:
I use Windows 2000 as my primary OS. I also use Mandrake 9.0 as an 'experimental' option for the sake of learning. In general, I find myself more frustrated with M$ products than not. Having spent 6+ years getting to know windows so well, I fear spending another ~5 years to learn Linux equally well. Competition is great, and I hope open source distros become a real (20+ percent of the market) competitor for the home PC market. Anything that will improve the products available to consumers and bend the wills of software/hardware companies to the wishes of tech and non-tech savvy consumers deserves a chance. Monopolies suck for the average Joe, and so does lack of adhearance to industry standards.
-jcpii
If I only knew Linux like I know Windows I'd switch. I've had too much experience on a Windows machine to switch. I bought a book, read online tutorials, but I still can't figure out how the system works to a degree of stability.
I am looking forward to being able to play Neverwinter Nights in linux along with my current game of ut2003 and various other gnu and ported (mostly old console) games so I will be able to spend less time in windows XP which I am currently using due to having just finnished a game of baldurs gate 2...
My company provides web development services. I would love to switch to Linux. The problem is all my co-workers and clients use Windows software. For our company to start using Linux on the desktop we would need a gradual migration plan, which allows for some desktops to be running Linux and some running Windows. That means that we need interoperable versions of every application for which we might share data or documented processes. Documented processes in this case means how you use the application, including how to set up your application preferences, if that impacts how data will be presented.
When I say interoperable, I mean completely interoperable. Not just 'can read the same file format', but it must implement all the same functions, have the same scripting tools (we use a lot of automation features), read and write the same default format, connect to the same set of back-end data sources, use the same third party plugins.
A short list of the applications for which we would need interoperable versions:
Microsoft Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint
Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat
Macromedia Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash
Quark eXpress
The Cisco VPN dial-up client software
Internet Explorer (necessary for testing web pages)
I would also need a Psion Revo synchronization program.
Some of these could be run under Windows emulation (Wine) or a virtual O/S layer, but for the applications that I use every day running a completely independent environment within my main desktop sounds like a big hassle.
The problem is that the workers in my company use a lot of windows tools, and we're quite productive. To be worth switching, Linux would have to make us more productive.
Well I believe we've all had our troubles with windows, and MS is so damn huge it's scary. I never realised how truly lucky I was to be using windows until...
I began working at a design firm that is entirely dedicated to Mac. I have never in my life had to deal with so many god awful stupid problems. Macs are supposed to be reliable and easy-to-use (so they advertise), but in reality it is the complete opposite. I don't understand how apple is still in business, I wish they would die.
Aside from my distaste for Apple, there are many other reasons why I love windows. I use 2kPro on my 1.53ghz and it fuckin smokes!!! Crashes are RARE and avoidable. The worst thing that happens is Outlook seems to enjoy replacing my Winamp icon in the taskbar with its own (???). I am an artist, so I work in high-end graphics and music apps on an hourly basis. I put my machine through hell and yet it still manages to keep an average uptime of about 30 days or so. Not to mention all the games I am in and out of as well. It works, and it works beautifully. How could I not use it? It's probably the best OS I have ever used.
As for the other distros... Win95 was buggy, win98 was stupid, and winXP seems rather bloated, so screw those.
Why would I want to migrate from Windows to a platform that's not ready for the mainstream? When Linux supports everthing (not just games, but devices and Business Apps as well) that Windows supports, I'll switch; But it's no where near ready to be a desktop OS. I run it for my web server and firewall, but not for my desktop. I cannot see any practical reason to migrate to Linux on the desktop when most of the apps I run are not supported or are much more complicated to run. Plus I do not feel like having to work when im at home and if there is one thing Linux makes you do is work for what you want.
have a winxp partition so i can use my cheap printer and maybe be work from home a couple of times every year. that aside i dont need windows at all.
I just donated my Linux box to a local school, actually, since I was only using it to geek around. Since most of the games that I and my family play are only available on Windows (MMORPGs, etc.) Microsoft is profiting nicely by me.
ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
The last thing keeping me from switching 100% to Linux is Sonic Foundry and their 'No plans for Linux' policy. I would (really, I'm not just saying this) PAY GOOD MONEY for Acid Pro v2.0 or equivalent for Linux.
Are you listening, Sonic Foundry guys? MUSICIANS WILL PAY MONEY FOR LINUX APPS! I already bought the Windoze version, I'd BUY IT AGAIN FOR LINUX!
I and many others said this on Sonic Foundry's own web boards, but they seem to be thicker than a brick wall and can't see the demand.
Just make sure it's as easy to use (the key bindings are all-important here -- they just make so much sense in SF's programs, it makes Adobe stuff feel klunky in comparison) as the Windoze versions.
I haven't had a chance to try Audacity and some of the other Linux audio apps lately.. if they're OK, then I guess I can switch without SF's support. Oh well, lost revenue for them..
ERROR 144 - REBOOT ?
Well, okay. Not ALL of them. Win2k Pro at work. 98 at home for games. But only for games. Otherwise I boot to RedHat 7.3. Unless I'm on my laptop. That's an iBook with OS X on it.
... "I read part of it all the way through." -- Movie Mogul Sam Goldwyn (and some slashdot readers)
I dual-boot all my machines with RH or gentoo; I have openBSD & freeBSD boxes for various projects; but at work, and at home, MS is very convenient for office-style apps, random software, and some games.
Call it flamebait if you want, but I've been using linux since 1.x series kernels, and to this day MS still beats linux on the desktop. The minute that's not true anymore I'll switch.
It's amazing to me that some of you can identify the mac zealotry, but miss your own linux zealotry. Macs are pretty, but expensive; Linux is solid, but weak on the desktop.
Sure windows crashes. Even 'stable' XP and 2K crash on the order of once or twice a day when doing hard compiles in vc++. But I've had plenty of KDE freezes and GNOME crashes. Even the occasional kernel panic.
The only thing that keeps me from using Linux all the time is the fact that I can't get my USB modem to work with it. I've been trying to get it to work for months now. Browsing the net for drivers, reading documentation, installing new kernels... Nothing. That's why use Windows.
My office uses WinXP Pro and I often checkout Slashdot from there. When I go home however I use my boyfriend's pc which runs Red Hat 7.3 exclusively.
I like Linux just fine and plan to have it on my own computer once I've get a replacement mobo. I'll have a dual-boot Linux/WinXP pc. Mainly because I'll use the WinXP for my games and Linux for everything else.
Until Linux can run all the current and future PC games available I'll continue to us a Microsoft OS.
I run linux 99% of the time both at home and at work. As a programmer, I have very little use for advanced MS Office apps, or other MS finery. OpenOffice does just fine for the few word docs I create. Likewise for the (somewhat more prolific) misc. diagrams.
Just about the only time you'll find me on MS is when I'm testing my web pages.
For other people.... well... Linux just ain't easy enough to install and configure. Until it is, people will hold back. Or until OEMs ship it preconfigured.
(Score: -1, Stupid)
I am working on migrating the CRM app from VB and Access - first step will be to migrate to another DB (PostgreSQL likely, or MySQL), then begin the recoding of the application to allow it to be browser based (likely PHP or Perl or some combo here, or maybe Java). While the application works now, it could be made a lot better.
At home, my main machine is a SuSE 6.4/7.2 "hybrid" box - I use it for any new development (mostly Perl, PHP, and Java), browsing (using Mozilla, once again), etc - I really enjoy it, sometimes I "break" things that I have to "re-fix" (3d acceleration is a big one - linked libs get jacked around by various config utils, mostly), and some things don't quite work how I want them to, but mostly it is a *good thing*.
I am working on putting Debian on an old 486 laptop as well, soon. Linux is something I love, and at some point I want to be completely on it.
I do have one app, though, that is on a Windows box, and is the only thing I use on that Windows box - it is the old Checkfree software. I use it, rather than the web interface, because of the reporting, and the fact that you can enter other transactions into the account, etc. Online banking is not an option, because that shows the same things as your statement, rather than what you have vs. the statement (thus, balancing your checkbook never really happens, and you can't tell when a mistake or extra entry has been made - and such incidences have happened with me).
Yes, I know about GNUCash, and I would love to use it, but last time I checked (and I really should check again), it didn't have electronic transaction capability to allow online electronic bill payment - so, you end up writing checks (which I hate), and entering in amounts - or doing online banking, and doing double entry of amounts (which you can EASILY screw up - so it isn't an option for me).
My only other alternative is WINE - but really, I would love to just have a Linux app, and drop all pretense of any mention of Windows altogether.
Anybody got suggestions?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I haven't run into a site that won't function for me on Mozilla. If I do, I'll tell the operator that his site is broken. You mentioned credit card payments; credit card companies are begging for your business. So are banks, and most other businesses. If they won't do business on MY terms, they won't do business with me. That's not about browsers or operating systems or computers, that's about the customer (that's me) being right. The customer is always right, as long as the customer pays the businesses' bills. I've never had a problem with a bank which involved computers, but that would be reason enough to take my business elsewhere, just as surely as not being open at convenient times and locations is.
It seems funny that you say GNUcash isn't there yet. I find it's a bit of overkill: I wish there was a slightly less complicated and less capable program. GNUcash does the job, but it does way more than I need.
The parent post was correct: MS lost the browser war. They won the war to have the most popular browser, but they never wanted to win that one. What they wanted was to make sure that NO browser could undermine their OS monopoly.
See what I've been reading.
_so lame_.
Steve Jobs would be Bill Gates if he could and likewise Apple Microsoft. Come on! I'm sick of this Apple-as-a-shining-light theory. They do things that Microsoft would be crucified for, e.g. withholding APIs for Aqua so developers can't mod the desktops as easily as OS9.
They jack up prices for the _propierty equipment_ to inordinate amounts. People say MS is the evil empire for having vendors put MS software on new computers-- can you buy an Apple with another OS? No?
Where are the cries for blood? I'm sorry, Apple would just as easily perpetuate a lockhold on the entire industry if they could.
Please, step off your high horse.
jack's bicycle is music to my ears
M$ makes the GUI I use most often, but in terms of my data (stuff I actually give a s**t about) I ONLY use *nix based servers (OpenBSD primarily). My email, my programming, everything meaningful to my life and career is done on *nix. My money IS where my mouth is. I'm not willing to spend hour$ upon frustrating hour$, trying to get *nix drivers to work for my sound card or my high end video capture card. I'd rather play with my 2yo son when I get home from work.
... M$ is the GUI my end users will be seeing my product on, and I need to use the same OS to debug my work. I also have access to OSX, but for my general purpose, it's not as practical.
Maybe once I'm a better hand at C programming, then I'll actually contribute to developing the drivers I currently lack. Til then
-Guanno
Games, and Money. I would love to go mac (once you go mac you never go back) but I can't afford it at this time. Once they start making iEmachines I will be there.
What is keeping me from linux is a combination of things. First one is a lack or ported software. Sounds familiar? Here's my twist: A lack of GPL unix software ported to windows.
First I would like to say that its getting better. OpenOffice, the Gimp, gvim, abiword and the like all have windows ports. But there is some software that I'd like to try without having to jump into the linux OS boat - Such as gnucash.
I'm not alone with this train of thought. If I can everything in windows with the same gpl apps that I can in linux, then there is just a little jump from learning windows to the $x_environment_of_choice. But if I have to learn all new apps to get things done, then the jump from windows to linux is bigger.
So please, give me windows ports.
(As for the hardware - my second video card is buggy under linux. I think its hardware related. Anyways, even though its a simple tgui-9680 chipset, with the default VGA drivers and with the trident drivers, I get a corrupted display under X. I believe its a hardware problem, and will try a newer video card to doublecheck later.)
The only thing keeping me on Windows is the music software. The sole function of my PC is to be used for creating music. There are no alternatives to SONAR, Fruity Loops, etc. on linux. There is some music software, but a lot of it is still relatively new (and buggy). When I sit down to write music, I don't want to end up debugging software that just doesn't work. So while linux is a pretty decent OS, the apps that I want use just aren't there.
Games on PC are much better than the same games on PS2. Theory and hype aside, in practice the PS2 is equivalent to something like a 3 year old computer speed-wise.
On top of this, TVs have horrible resolution, refresh rate, and image quality.
I'm the exact opposite of you -- I got a PS2 and never play it except when people are over and want to play sega tennis or fighting game or two (in which case I'm actually likely to bust out Dreamcast for Soul Caliber instead), whereas I probably average good 15hours a week of Quake and UT on PC.
I guess the PC multiplayer online games with unbelievable graphics where you are competing against freakin' elite ninjas who are so damn good they make you sad because you will never be 1/100th as good no matter how much you practice somehow seem more significant than console games. For me, Quake is like tennis or something while Starcraft is like chess maybe -- they take immense practice and skill (to be really good) and have intellectual depth.
There are a few console games I love too but none of them have remained fascinating the way lots of PC games do -- console games just seem to be comparatively superficial and/or kiddy.
The only high speed option in the rural area I live in is a satellite dish and Linux software has been "in development" for years. The phone lines in my area support 24K tops. I know, Helios sells Linux SERVER software for DirecPC but $200 is a little too steep for me. If they sold a single user package for under $50, I'd go for it. For everything else, Iuse Linux.
Oh, that's easy. The Gimp.
I'm a web designer by trade -- though well versed in the realm of *nixes and Mac -- and in order to pay the bills, I have to have at least one image manipulation tool that I can use. While the Gimp's featureset is attractive, and I can't say enough good things about Script-Fu, the Gimp is not professional quality. I'm a professional, and that's what I demand from my tools.
Since I'm a web designer in the post-dotcom world, I'm also broke. I can't afford to purchase a Mac to run OS X. Intel-based hardware is cheap, graphic programs for Windows are plentiful, and so I stay on Windows. My forays into Linux have been fruitless, not for lack of knowledge (did I also mention I sysadmin? and code?) or the lack of other software, but just because I didn't have that one vital tool I needed.
The day that Adobe and Macromedia port their products to Linux is the day that I will quite happily switch back. Until that day, I will remain a Windows user.
--
"I don't really love computers, I just say that to get them into bed with me." --Terry Pratchett
Point and click to set up printers... sure, KDE will do it too, but it doesn't work right, every KApp insists on using A4 instead of US Letter no matter how many times you click it. The Gimp does a lot of cool stuff, but it's impossible to do one-pixel brush tips or draw a damned straight line or a circle. And those little pop-up menus that pop up right on top of what you're trying to work on are damned irritating. I'd love to switch, and when I find a useful CAD package that plays on Linux, when PaintShop Pro is ported to Linux, and when I can set up simple stuff without having to wade through a Google search of dead links and 8-year-old HOW-TOs, I will switch.
It's time for you Linux zealots to decide: do you want to stay a niche server OS and hobbyist desktop, or do you really want total world domination? If you want world domination, you have to better than the competition in every way - fonts, ease of use for non-computer-literates, and applications. As they say down at the outhouse, it's time to shit or get off the pot.
- ForteInc's AGENT newsreader
- Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video, Sound Forge and Acid Pro
- Mediaware's M2-Edit Pro
- Ahead's NERO
- Cyberlink's PowerDVD XP
- Sonic's ReelDVD/Scenarist
- Ulead's DVDWorkshop
- DVD2SVCD
- WinExplorer/ExtremeHU
And of course, the idiots who send me stuff in proprietory Microsoft formats (e.g.,And of all these, which of these is the MOST important???
- Outlook on Exchange
- Enterprise Manager (MSSQL)
and that's pretty much it. Hell, I use cygwin half the day, to parse things, write scripts, etc. But I need both to do my job. So that's simpleHome:
Of all those, the only two that I'd have issues with would be the Newsgroup (BRN2 isn't there yet, though Newsbin is working on either getting it working great on Wine, or an actual version) and, most importantly, Games. The rest of it is all minor stuff I can work around, or find better options for (on Linux or Mac).
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
I switched to Linux about 2 year ago. I stoped wasting my time on computer games, I started to learn more programming and systems administration, and I felt more powerful using Linux. It changed me for the better.
However...
I am currently at home with the parents and they do not want to get cable for the sole reason they do not want me to enjoy staying at the house (next semister I'll be back in the dorms). We only have dial up and Juno, our crappy service provider, only provides a windows version of it's propriatory software. It's not even worth it for me to switch out my winmodem for one of my older ones. So right now I'm suck in Windows using Pheonix and will be happy to get back into Linux in the spring semister.
It seems to me that most people here that use windows do so because of the games and they also seem to be the "vocal crowd". Well, here is something from the "silent but deadly" crowd. 2 words (they are trade marked tho) Macromedia and Adobe. Adobe is arguably the second largers software manufacturer and i doubt that Macromedia is far behind. Ya'll know the names: Photoshop, Flash, Dreamweaver, After Effects ... untill those hardcore apps make it to the Linux platform i will always have a foot stuck in the do.. err.. windows(?) Please don't start the Gimp and other umpa lumpas flasme wars. I originally grew on windows, was digusted, bought Mac, got poor, Got windows with the hope that one day the hardware will be compatible witha "finished" linux distro. - which is not yet to be for those in my trade. who knows maybe one day i will learn programming well enough to redesign the Gimp and actually make it usable.
Games, DVDs, multimedia.
I don't have _time_ to fool around with my desktop. And I damn sure have better things to do in my off time than play with computers.
That said, I _did_ install FreeBSD on my other office machine.
I work on an IBM T20, which has a really neat scroll feature on the Trackpoint (joystick) pointing device. There's a third "mouse" button that you hold down, and it makes the little joystick into a mousewheel scroller. This is so ergonomically perfect that I've become totally addicted to it. Unfortunately, it only works with Windows, and even then not with all apps. I wish someone would add this feature to Linux desktops for the T20. The other Thinkpad stuff, like the volume buttons, swappable drives, etc., all works with Linux, but not the scroll button.
Other than that, I use Linux on my servers, and I run Knoppix to use some Linux tools I really like.
The main problem is that everything is so damn hard to install.... there are a lotta different ways to install programs in linux and if you don't wanna spend hours learning to install new drivers forget about that all together. If a linux n00b installs a new video driver and screws up they loose the gui and then they are totally lost(happened to me a few times) When one does manager to screw up drivers it is generally faster to just reinstall than figure out how to fix it. What doesn't help at all is that there are too many different "standards" to do things which, I might add, are never very standard. In windows you pop in a cd and hit next, next, next, next ,next and everything is done for you. No brain required. Not mentioning gaming of course.... Linux is somthing you need time and a desire to learn... most people like wasting their time and dont ever want to think to do anything which says a lot about our society but nehow windows is just a lot easier to learn and i you do screw up yer drivers it gives you a generic that at least gives yer command typing impaired a way to try to rectify the problem.... linux may be more stable, and generally just better imo but windows is easier to use without a doubt.... linux geeks may not think so, but when you know somthing of course it's easy for you. That doesn't mean it is easy tho. P.S.: I love my Mandrake so no microsoft flaming me :P
Incoherent Rant Mode Deactivated
I'm a Gamer :(
Gamers need windows:( I also use Gentoo Linux^H^H^H^H^HGNU/Linux... I have decided that Windows 2000 is THE LAST Windows I will ever install. If my games don't run well on Linux(or any other OS, including OS 10.x), then too damn bad, I won't play them.
I was a hardcore OS/2 user (cultist) for five years when everyone was pushing for either Windows 3.1 or 95. I resisted and am somewhat proud of it, but in summer '99 when I finally bought a used copy of 95 and had an opportunity to play all the games I missed out on, I realized that even though OS/2 was a tremendously better OS than Windows, if it doesn't have the apps (games) I want, it has limited utility to me.
It was sincerely sad that everyone ditched OS/2, but now I get to play the latest and greatest games as they are released, I get 100% hardware support, my documents are 100% compatible with anyone I send them to, and I don't have to resolve to using crappy alternatives to Windows apps (like crappy IM clients).
Alternate OS's can't provide these advantages. If I'm wrong, prove me wrong and I'll switch.
Yahoo Messanger Video, icuii, iVisit, cu-seeme, etc.
I'd love to run Linux on the desktop but every time I try I find an excuse or a reason why not to. These aren't very big excuses, but each and every one drives me back to Windows. And I feel really bad advocating Linux-on-the-desktop (and I'd feel even worse trying to sell it to people) if I can't even run it myself.
I'd like nothing more than to run Linux, if not for my conscience than to shut up the more rabid of my friends. You can build a list a mile long of applications that would have to work seamlessly under Linux before people would change (and yes Photoshop is at the top of that list) - but all that is doing is saying "I'm really not ready to make that committment yet, and here is what I am going to blame today."
Gnome 2 is a big step as well. But now it's another excuse to blame another application. "Evolution isn't GTK2 yet." "Mozilla isn't GTK2 yet." (You try making a new Galeon2 build work. And then you can blame sub-pixel anti-aliasing for not working in all your programs, if you like that kind of thing.
Red Hat 8.0 has blown me away with a desktop that finally looks nice and doesn't require the Microsoft fonts to do so. Even though I prefer Debian, I might install RH8 and try again. But still, I'll install it dual-boot for starters, and then I'll find myself needing to boot back into Windows for something, and not going back into Linux...
The reason I am not changing is that I am used to everything being nice in Windows, and I am not prepared to accept even small drops in 'niceness' for the incredibly large gain in karma that you get for being completely open-source.
Remember, running Windows isn't an evil thing. I'm writing this from Mozilla. I run (some) open source Windows apps. But when it's as easy to get warez as it is in the world today...
If we were in a totalitarian copy-protective state etc, you'd see GNU/Mozilla/Desktop/XConsortium/whoever Linux (as a whole) improve 100 times quicker than it is now.
SVCDs actually use MPEG-1, not MPEG-2. They're quite different beasts!
FWIW, I have used transcode *extensively* for video conversion and it has rarely let me down. Recently I found a flaw: within hours a fix was provided.
The transcode documentation is pretty good: you really can't go wrong if you take the time to RTFM.
http://blog.grcm.net/
I need windows for most of the applications I use at work. At home, I have 1 windows box and 1 dual boot Windows/Linux box. The straight windows box is my gaming machine, though I also use PaintShop Pro for graphichs work on it. My dual boot machine only has windows for 2 reasons: 1, there is no linux support for my scanner; 2, I prefer Nero to any linux-based CD-recording package I've yet seen. Both of these devices are hooked to the dual boot machine because I don't have SCSI in the gaming box.
But saying that with either one you have security is a joke.
Personally, I hate it. But my PHB insists that our products be hosted under it and I have to eat.
Sigs are bad for your health.
true story
it gets cold in my room when I dont use it
I find these programs indespensible, with no Linux substitutes. I use other databases for myself, but the rest of the world is addicted to *.mdb files and applications.
It's simple why I use windows. Anyone can install windows with basically no prior knowledge 99% of the time. Up until very recently you had to have esoteric knowledge to install linux. Video cards, modems, ethernet cards, it all just works in windows 95% of the time. If I want a shortcut on the desktop in windows, i just drag and drop. In linux (until recently) it was a pain in the ass. In windows i can open up a window and click on the diskdrive. Mount a drive? edit Xconfigurator in a command-line text editor? install a driver? If you just want to get something done without spending hundreds of hours learning geek stuff, linux was worthless. Most people aren't interested in devoting a significant percentage of their time to learning a machine, they have other things to do. I just want to get my physics done. Write reports, Graph things in mathematica, send emails. I don't want to have to read books to figure out how to compile my kernal because xwindows isn't working etc etc.
I switched to Mandrake from Windows about six months ago. The things that were keeping me from switching sooner were:
1. My internal Intel DSL modem wasn't supported. I bought a Cisco DSL modem/router on ebay.
2. Ugly fonts. I've installed true type fonts for X to use.
3. No journaling file system and hearing horror stories about trashed file systems and long file system checks at boot. ext3 was added into distros about a year ago.
So here I am, running Phoenix under GNOME on Mandrake 8.2 and loving it.
I'm one of those would would love to use Linux, and have tried a number of times to switch, but always wound up back on Win2K. Here's my list:
* Configuration of simple functionality (e.g. mounting my windows partitions) should never require me to open some obscure file in super-user mode (something the GUI editors included with distros can't easily do), spend hours looking up syntax and options for a particular configuration, then another few hours debugging. On MS, those first two parts are done through point-and-click, so you only spend the hours debugging. Still frustrating, but much faster. The different assumption is: "do what needs to be done to get it working for the user" rather than: "get the user to set it up so it's what we want".
* I should never have to re-build the kernal (or another piece of software) just to install a driver for my graphics tablet. Installing 5 unrelated and hard-to-configure packages to achieve the same isn't much better. Installers should come with the dependencies ready-to-go in the package and should install what's missing automatically. The kernal architecture should support plugging in new drivers without needing to re-build.
* I use about 12 programs daily, another 100 or so I use frequently, and a few more I use infrequently, but really need when I need them. That's a lot of inertia when setting up some of them (such as the TV tuner and recorder) are going to take days each (remembering that I'm a Linux newbie). I'm willing to try to convert, but I can't dedicate months just to the task of setting up and configuring a computer.
I'm willing to spend the money on the IBM voice-dictation for Linux, and a decent 3D modeller to let me do the switch, but not until the platform itself is something I can use.
Linux is my main os at home and work.
I develop in linux (gcc,gtkmm,opengl,perl)
I play games in linux (nethack, baby!)
I write in linux (latex, tks)
I do my accounting in linux (gnucash)
I read my mail in linux (evolution,pine)
I watch my DVD's in linux (xine+dvdnav)
and I browse the net in linux (mozilla, pan)
Quicken was the last thing I was using regularly in windows, but when they moved to a $10/mo subscription model for their next release, I said bye-bye.
So long, and thanks for all the Phish
Me and my gf has been on linux since 98 and neither of us has any probs with it. Once you know its principals and its underpinnings its much easier to use than most other systems. Atleast for someone skilled at computers. For a n00b i think linux can be hard at first. Some things can be made simpler than today but i hope it wont be on the expense of the flexibility. I hope linux will evolve past windows and god help us NOT into windows.
HTTP/1.1 400
1. Homework - SPSS/LISREL for stats don't run well, if at all, under Wine, and there are a few other programs that I need for school that fall in the same category. MS office is NOT one of them. Openoffice, gnumeric, and abiword do what I need for virtually all office work.
2. Graphics - I use the Gimp a lot, but Photoshop still is the champ for some work. Same goes for video, there are some decent Linux packages, but overall, Windows wins here too.
3. Games - Some work under Linux, some don't, but overall, I'd say gaming under Windows is easier.
4. My wife - She doesn't like having to re-learn program names, etc, to do the few things she does. However, I've gotten her to the point she doesn't reboot from Linux to check her mail, or type a letter, or play solitaire - 99.999% of what she does on the computer - by setting up a simple KDE desktop with the apps she needs as links on the desktop. As an added bonus, she really likes the fact that the distro contains lots of little games that aren't available under Windows, like Shisen-so, Mahjonng, and many others.
That being said, while my desktop at home is usually booted to Windows, I use Linux on a dual-boot laptop for virtually all schoolwork - say 95% of the time. The remaining time is when I need stats software, or another Windows-only package.
Overall, Linux is great for me. It does what I want, works with all my hardware, and offers flexibility Windows doesn't. I often find myself wishing for certain Linux features (a decent commnand line!) when I'm working with Windows. But, there are times when Windows is superior. Long live dual-booting!
I get paid for maintaining a VB app. But I still spend in Linux most of the time. I just bought a 80GB disk, installed vmware and now I'm like in paradise. I do almost everything with Linux, but also keep 6 VMs for development and testing purposes.
.NET and maybe migrate the app to it, so when Mono starts working well I can try to switch to Linux completely :-) Or at least for development.
I'm hoping to learn
What keeps you using Photoshop is the same that keeps other people using Windows: you are used to certain tools, they get your job done, and you don't want to spend the time learning something new. There is nothing wrong with that. But that's your problem, not a problem with Linux or Linux applications.
Having been in digital imaging for 20 years, I assure you that Linux and UNIX are an excellent platform for digital imaging. In fact, once you learn the tools, it's a lot better than Photoshop or Windows in my opinion. I have used Photoshop, and you couldn't pay me to switch to it: it's just the usual, bloated, monolithic software style that is so common on Windows.
I don't know if you're kidding or not, but that really is my main reason. For instance, I want my box customized to do anything I want it to do with one click or keystroke (my quicklaunch has 32 items, and I set up my middle mouse button to skip a track in winamp because I don't even want to move my hand to the keyboard). It's easy to find warez for that, and for all the tech apps I need for school, like Maple, Matlab, etc... Now I realize that linux is significantly better for developers, due to open API's and so forth (not that I really know what that means in practice).
For the record, I'm learning. I dual boot linux and am learning C++ on it. So don't crucify me please.
BUT... I don't want to have to wade through source to customize my machine, and I don't know where to get free quality versions of some of the software I need for linux. Hence I still need Windows.
1) At home: Games. Games may be appearing more and more frequently on Linux thanks to WineX but until the time comes where there's a dedicated Linux client for every new game that appears, I'll be doing what most people are - sticking to Windows as my main OS so I may game on a powerful machine without a reboot. WineX just doesn't cut it for many games, especially some older ones that I still love to play.
2) At work: Applications - primarily Exchange and MS Office. I'm SysAdmin for an SME publishing company with around 40 users. The publishing industry is extremely windows-centric, and the majority of files passed around are in doc format. Now before everyone starts screaming about Open and StarOffice, I can say that OpenOffice and MS Office are most definately NOT interchangable, even when using RTF format for documents. I recently wrote a work-related proposal for presentation to my manager(s), only to find the bold, italic and fonts totally fscked up when the RTF was opened under Word 2000. Luckily I managed to reformat it all under the MS solution before my boss got hold of it, but had I not double-checked my proposal most likely would have been dismissed out of hand. Oh, and it's not like it was a complicated document in the way of formatting - standard fonts, bold, italics and bullet points.
The other major app that keeps us from using Linux at work (aside from retraining every user, most of whom have never used Linux before) is Exchange. There is simply NO Free (as in speech - we will pay for a GPL solution if it can meet our needs) that is a plug-in solution for Exchange! My users need shared calenders, free/busy scheduling and everything else Exchange provides. Until the day comes where someone releases a reliable plug-in Exchange replacement that duplicates *all* of Exchange's features, we won't even consider switching.
I think you'll find that these three things are what keeps 95% of people from attempting a total conversion to Linux, in both the home and business markets.
Janie took my gun...
As a developer i mix VB and C++ alot, but the main reason is games, the nonexistant support for new games is the MAIN reason... (i can dump VB and learn PHP & do GCC instead of VC++)
As for WINE and other emulators; I'm sorry but it won't run Morrowind or Deltaforce...
(But i DO have more than one computer at home running varios os'es, including Linux)
Linux is great... for a server. All the settings packed neatly into .conf files and you don't have to hunt the checkbox in a difficult gui.
But when it comes to the desktop... windows is integrated and easy. you can do things like click into display properties and set up your monitors in two seconds. Programs start without dependancy crap, and you can download a program and install it without waiting ten hours for the dman thing to compile. I feel that Linux has all the right components, but they don't yet quite fit together without some technical glue.
I'd try a mac if i had the money...
I'm an avid linux user but unfortunately my job and my fiance dictate that I need to keep windows in my life, my fiance is not interested in learning a new OS and at my job they have windows on all the terminals except a few servers.
A lot of people have been saying that they use windows because it has all the programs/games/warez/etc... but one must point out that it is the user that dictates what platform has what. If the public wants a thingamijig to do something to a doohickey... whoever creates the thingamijig will create it for the platform we want it created on. If we keep using Windows...they will keep writing software to run on it exclusively.
And if our democracy has taught me anything it's that he who yells the loudest, wins.
At home I use MacOsX, with a RedHat 7.2 server. Win2k at work.
Crystal Reports I use. Boring, but it doesn't execute on Linux. Maybe MacOsX in the future.
We need a stable, and fast GUI with GREAT drivers for all video cards. X sucked fifteen years ago. No one would agree. Sun's OpenWindows was pretty cool. Remember CDE? Someone must be "in charge" and have a vision. It simply won't and can't happen because of each person's ego that is involved with Linux GUI's. Hell, we can't even have a single version of Linux for each targeted application(desktop, embedded, server, etc.)
Linus controls the Linux kernel.
Bill controls Microsoft.
Steve controls Apple.
Etc, Etc, Etc.
All successful. Communism doesn't work with software either.
Don't gripe about someone with a vision that makes it happen, regardless of the way they implement it.
Games and (good) support for any hardware are the main reasons. DOS support (legacy stuff) also matters to me - but that is really a strong point when using Win9X.
;)
Also Winblows is the easiest to get
Don't get me wrong, I do play around with Redhat on a secondary machine from time to time, but it's never come close to actually taking over. I'm reasonably sure that I could find replacements for all the applications I normally use, and run most of the games that I like under wine somehow. But, short of giving MS the finger, what reason is there really for me to switch?
Something availible on Linux but not on Windows? Not that would matter to me, no. Maybe DRM-less stuff in the future, but not now.
Cost? No. Ok it could be if I was considering buying something new, but otherwise it's a sunk cost (ie, switching to Linux won't pay me back the cost of Windows)
Free applications? See above. I got a set of applications I already have, and that I'm very familiar with what they can and can not do.
Stability? Could have been up to Windows 2000. Now that argument is rather moot.
In the end it comes down to 7 years of experience with Win95/98/2k/XP. "Start/Shut Down/Restart" to restart doesn't make sense, but now it could just as well say "Oooga/Booga/Dooga" for all I care, I know already. If I had grown up with Linux and learned that in the same way I learned Basic (C64), DOS and Windows in my days, things would be very different. I'm not a programmer, but I still grok VB programs the best (or at least better than C/C++/Java) because of my C64 experience. It's literally years of training, and it was fun. You don't get learning that'll stick better than that.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
If the browser succeeded in making the OS irrelevant, why are we even talking about the OS?
Hint: Because it's not irrelevant.
Trees can't go dancing
So do them a big favor
Pretend dancing stinks!
It's not my expectation and it's not the power of suggestion. When I drag my mouse to move or resize a window in KDE (Mandrake 8.2), the window does not move or resize as I drag. Nothing happens for a second or two and then the change occurs. PAIN! When I drag a slider on a scrollbar, the scrolling happens in jumps at least a half second apart. Contrast this to Win98 running on the same box (K6-2 350, 192 Mb) where everything happens smoothly.
Is it my strange memory configuration or what? If this is supposed to be better let me know how. I would love to drop my Win98 crutch.
Everyone has said all of my reasons.. (work, games, and yes even pr0n)
/.
/. front page. but ya know what.. im not a code.. i dont know any coding.. if its windows and im installing something that dosent work i can troubleshoot it.. but reading code in a .bat/.inf .whatever file.. sorry nope.. out of my game.
sooo... why havent i switched?
i dont like the linux attitude.. i remeber when apple released a patch for there iToons software and it delted any secondary partitions. and this was all posted on
the majority of the comments were about how it was an "OBVIOUS" mistake in the OSX install file.. and why didnt the users pick up on it, it was there own fault.. ect.. ect..
well.. me.. i AM a Power User.. im even an Extreme Power user.. having some of my work posted on
i dont like the "more holy than thou linux attitude and the "im using linux so i know what i should be doing" attitude. and of course the allmighty.. "M$ sucks linux is 31337 we are the underdog" attitude
just my 2 cents on why i havnt switched to linux.. but OSX.. i just dont have the cash for another new system
The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
Everything you say is good, but it's funny that you mention the KDE paper size problem.
;-)
Here in Australia, every stupidly setup Mac or Windows box (and I've seen heaps of them!) will have been left with the default US settings, that is, bad, er... I mean "US", spelling and US legal paper sizes.
He he he, it's just nice to know that it strikes back both ways at times
Thanks for the chuckle.
I have a dual-booted system though. I would be 100% Linux if it wasn't for games. My passion is also my unfortunate fate. Thanks Justice system for letting Microsoft get away with giving they're API's to whome ever they please.
By applications, I don't mean a zillion pre-alpha releases of MP3 players on SourceForge. I mean *real* applications that do *real* work. Graphics, accounting, CAD... I could care less how many different text editors for programmers I can download, find me a real professional-grade graphics package (and no, the gimp doesn't count, it's missing too many features). Show me an accounting package that can really be useful in a small business that plays on Linux. Show me a decent CAD package that runs on Linux, schematic capture, autorouting PC boards, etc. And I dare ya to find a professional-grade audio editor (video would be nice too). Until a *lot* of real-world business apps happen, Linux is a hobby system that works OK for some server apps.
Other than that, my home could be Windows-free. I would doubt, though, that one could ever successfully build an Open Source tax package. And for some of us, that keeps the Windows box around (at least around Apr. 15).
That is all.
God, what a fucking idiot. Do you ever research the subjects you spew crap about, or do you just let your ass run the show and keep crapping out stupid thoughts?
As the other replies said, you CAN'T print RGB. CAN NOT. Anyone who tells you they can print RGB directly is either a stupid fucking moron like you or is lying. They have to convert to CMYK at some point in the process - whether ahead of time or within the printer hardware.
Like the other guy said, RGB and CMYK are two completely different color models developed for two completely different media - light and ink. Light does not mix the same way ink does. Period. Imbecile.
True graphics professionals will make sure that what they manipulate on the screen is exactly what they get on the paper. Ever wondered why your printed porn doesn't have exactly the same colors and shading as on your screen? Probably not, you were too busy drooling and whacking off. But anyway, Photoshop has good support for translation of the different color models and calibration to match colors as precisely as possible. Gimp sucks ass at that. Even less, really, it doesn't have any facilities whatsoever for that. That's because it's a hard problem and only Photoshop has done it well enough for professionals.
Did I mention that you're a fucking retard?
For me, it's the integration and interoperability of the PDA [PocketPC] in Windows 2000/XP. I would love to switch to MacOSX... but I won't use a Palm. And the Sharp Zaurus lacks sufficient PIM functionality and most importantly the ability to share data between PIM applications.
-Peter
I'm off Windows - have been for 8 months. I don't even support my business partner when he's using Windows any more. (He has both a rh8 box and a win2k box on his desk. The RH8 light is lit on the kvm more and more these days...)
Frankly, I'm done with it, I'm done with them, and I'm done supporting people who use it.
Also haven't paid to see a movie in 6 months, haven't bought a mainstream cd (or listened to any of that top-40 pop-rap-crap) for a year. I don't need any RIAA, MPAA, or MSFT crap anymore, and they can all go to hell, as far as I'm concerned.
Am I angry? HELL, YES! Question is, why aren't you? We need to start voting with our wallets: The government isn't going to save us - they don't even seem to be on our side anymore!
The office I work in, is an all MS shop (Well 2 macs in the graphic design department). I'm responsible for supporting everyone on a daily basis. And believe me, there is NO way any of the users here would last a day with a *nix box. The people that we hire here are professionals that do a fairly specific job function for our clients. And technology CAN'T get in the way of that. They don't know anything about computers, but they aren't supposed to.
Further, they exchange documents all day long, with other Windows users. And that isn't going to change either.
At home, I use my machine for email, IRC, and games. The first 2 functions can be done on any platform. The third, is by far a Windows selling point. The gammes I play, simply don't come out for *nix.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
I've been using 2k and XP on large compiles multiple times a day for years and not one machine here has ever crashed during a compile. I've had the compiler go bye bye occasionally, but it has never taken out the system. In fact out of hundreds of people, you are the first person I have ever heard of with that problem.
You are hardly representative of the norm.
Statistical anomoly be gone!
OK, so it's not open source's fault that Microsoft are information-bigots who won't open their standards or permit people to write third-party filesystem drivers.
Whoever said the world was fair?
Regardless of who's to blame, if Linux had decent NTFS write support, or even if it had a stable NTFS read-only driver, I would find myself booting into Linux much more of the time.
Until such time as we get full NTFS support for Linux (or full ext2 support for NT/2000/XP), FAT32 must play the role of Switzerland in the filesystem world, hosting shared data and apps.
And guess what: FAT32 just don't cut the mustard anymore. It's got a ridiculously small maximum partition size, weird file size restrictions, bad fragmentation problems...if the real Switzerland were this buggy, they would've all frozen to death long ago.
...that there are so many posts from so many \.ers who are defending their use of Windows.
Get off of it. If it's games, break the habit (and go outside and play a real game with your friends).
Disclaimer: though I have been and will continue to be a UNIX user (since 1975), I bought a Mac in '85 as a document appliance and two years ago I bought a Windows box 'cause it made working at home for some of my clients easier.
The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.
-- Molly Ivins
Solaris and NetBSD 99.9% of the time. I have different machines with different OS's. I DO have a WIn2k box. It's the smallest box I can find that can run Win2k. I access it thru rdesktop. The only reason I have it is when "friends" call me for tech support, I can tell them what to do (I never memorize steps). It's off all the time until I get that call.
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
So what personal sacrifices have you made to deal with far more significant moral issues such as poverty or homelessness? Or are you only concerned about moral issues when they intersect with your technological preferences or require no effort on your part.
But Wine/Winex was simply not up to the task of running Talonsoft games (East Front II and Operational Art of War) which I use for wargaming.
Now at work I run a tiny network with a Redhat SMB file server and a storage server. Most of the tasks used to maintain these two machines are automated bash scripts using cron, the file system, as I learned, was far and away more reliable than anything windows could do. The clients are Win98, since the database front end is also a Win-based product. I have reliable backups and rock solid machines. I have been trying to get our only internet machine to switch over to Windows, but since Windows is supposedly so easy, it has been a frustrating no sale. I have been working for some time to move the clients to Linux using some of the free/low cost tool available but it is the UI that is the primary barrier to moving in that direction.
At home I run a webserver and an SMB server for storaing files (I could never trust Windows again to store files after my work experience) for wargaming and I use Windows as my primary surfing machine precisely because of wargaming. But I also used 98Lite to rid myself of the awful software that installs by default for internet; This machine runs a lot better without IE and other Windows products. I use Mozilla, Miranda, OpenSSH and a variety of other open source tools, all of which work very well for my purposes.
If Transgaming ever got Talonsoft games to run well under Linux I would chuck this Windows box so fast, it would make my cats choke from the vacuum. But for now, I have to use a Win98 product.
Dawn of the Dead
Why do I still boot windows? Well, I've got three boxen, one a family machine that needs to be braindead. The rest of my family just learned about saving to disk, so I need to keep it easy and simple. This machine runs Win98 and is also my net surfing machine for when sites insist on using IE. I"m thinking about putting BeOS on this machine
My second box runs Smoothwall, and is my gateway server. I've got all my machines hooked up to this one and it routes my USB adsl modem to all the other computers.
My third box quad boots Mandrake 9.1, Suse 8.1, Windows 2000 and Windows 98. Windows 98 is a bit of a dead fish, but I keep it around due to laziness. Win 2k is there for work and games. I love PC games because of the bleeding edge graphics, the surround sound and the fact that 640x480 interlaced resolution stinks! My linux choices are purely a hobby. I keep em on and use the OS switch to pick OS. I keep it for the uber cool geekiness factor. d
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
Four years ago I saved my money as a carpenter and bought a laptop with win98. I had used old Macs, win3.11 (486), Tandy 1000, TI-994/A recursively in my past. I bought a lot of software (yes I even paid for MS Office Small Business edition retail). I have since graduated to Linux and windows with two computers and a print server (little cute thing). I find that I prefer using only one machine and It is the windows box with StarOffice, OpenOffice, Gimp, MSOffice, Games... Bla Bla Bla and web use.
Linux Mandrake befuddles me with Samba as it has changed so much I run 8.1 Mandrake that I still use FTP in my house to fetch my work back and forth. Having my second machine run win98 makes gathering much easier.
I like Linux as a toy, but I find that I know how to do much more with windows. Even if I end up doing a unstable reboot once a week when something weird in a game does not function.
I liked when I got a server from someone and I took my hard drive from a Pentium 66 to a PII 400 and the windows OS installed all quite nicely with all of my data intact from my hardrive. So...
I think that linux needs more market oriented folks who can provide it to the masses. And push for ways to make it an OS for neophyte geeks like me who are dumb enough to spend money for something the barely understand but know will work. Then it will be Microsoft that begins a Linux software division.
This page is best viewed using an old guitar.
Why, nothing, of course!
I no longer have a Windows PC in my house. My wife and I switched to the Mac (matching 17" LCD iMacs) last Saturday and the only PC's I have run either Linux or FreeBSD.
No matter where you go... there you are.
Linux's security sucks! Take a look at:
http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/19996.html
Microsoft still pays the bills.
Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels.
The main thing that keeps both my home network and my network at work (how many times can you squeeze the word "work" into a scentence?) on Windows is Quicken/ QuickBooks. As soon as Intuit gets in to it (the Linux game) I'm ALL over a 100% Linux solution!
I do not use Microsoft Windows on my desktop. I haven't for a long time. I am a Debian GNU/Linux user who is greatly satisfied with Gnome and Enlightenment (except for the lack of alpha channel support in X). I use Open Office, Vim, multi-gnome-terminal, Mozilla, XMMS, Bluefish, Gnomeicu, Dia, Abiword, and a breadth of other applications that allow me to do much of what I can do on a Microsoft Windows machine. My workstation is much more solid (stable) using Linux.
Unfortunately, I still have to keep abreast of whats going on in the Microsoft world because of my business, and the best way to do that is by actually using the operating systems and applications that I have to communicate with.
Our company is a consulting firm focused on large scale network design and implementation. This requires us to research a large majority of hardware and sofware solutions. This also means that to be objective, we also have to consider Microsoft products. One of our clients has given us access to one of their terminal servers (rdesktop) so that we can fulfill that need.
Recently, my company held a LAN party to celebrate moving our office to a more spacious location. Although half of us were Linux gurus, I was one of the very few who did not have a machine running Windows at all (not even on some tucked away partition).
However, I love LAN parties, as I enjoy gaming very much (at least I did until I went totally linux about 2 years ago). Anyway, to make a long story short, I ended up grabbing some spare hard drive I had with 20 or so free gigs of space, and installed some version of Windows my buddy had. It all came back to me, fragging away my buddies, the adreneline rush, the co-ordinated attacks.. it was great!
I eventually got rid of the windows partition, but I strongly considered keeping it so that I could boot it up and play some games.
The point of this story is, there are two major reasons why a lot of Linux lovers are still running Microsoft Windows as their primary operating systems. One is that the Professional IT Industry is flooded with Microsoft's Products, and two is that the Gaming Industry hasn't made a committment to supporting Linux users.
I do not believe that WineX is a solution to the Linux Gaming problem. This only encourages PC game developers to disregard the Linux community, as they believe we'll find a way to get it running anyway.
This is simply not true, I don't want to waste my time trying to get games running on WineX when I could be spending that time actually gaming. I know that if I sit down and try hard to get a specific game running under WineX, that I could probably do it (with a little luck). But if I'm going to do that, then I might as well pirate the game, because I don't think I should have to work so hard to try and get a game running that I've already paid for.
My $0.02
"You do not associate with us because we are different. We do not associate with you because you are stupid."
Give Ximian Evolution a try it is a perfect replacement for Outlook!
But I think what you really meant to say was Exchange. And here the solution is far more difficult. But, you don't have to replace Exchange in order to replace Outlook.
Using Evolution you can connect to and use your existing Exchange server via POP3 or better yet IMAP4. But if you want full on Exchange functionality in Evolution you need to buy the Evolution Exchange Connector. It is a per client add-on that Ximian sells for $40 (I think).
Additionally, replacing Exchange itself will get a whole lot easier in the next couple months. Look for OpenExchange from Suse and Kolab from KDE.
1) My family/friends use yahoo messenger for video conference.
2) My parallel port scanner (Genius ColorPage Vivid III) isn't supported well yet.
3) I *have* to use it at work.
The reason I don't currently use Linux is due in large part to the lack of GOOD graphic design tools. As Gimp states, it is no Photoshop killer. I agree 100%. Gimp is a hell of a lot harder to use than Photoshop, and I KNOW Photoshop, so switching is something that will take time that I don't have as a college student. Further, there is no Flash program for web design, and the Apache implementation of ASP (good for my purposes due to the JScript language that is similar to JavaScript/EMCAScript), isn't all that (I hear...). If these and some other corperations would support Linux, I'd never touch M$ again. And, sadly, I don't have the cash to get a Mac (But I will as soon as I get it, thus putting me under a *nix). After this semester (and my need for graphic design tools subsides for a while), it's *nix from here on out... I hope.
i was reading comments the other day/week in some story where a distro was mentioned that was designed to boot from CD and doesn't require the HDD for anything, can someone tell me what the name of it was?
I use windows at work, no choice. I admin a NT 4.0 network. The software we use is mandated from much higher up in the food chain.
At home I have 2 RH7.3 boxes, 1 winxp and one winxp/RH7.3 laptop.
I keep the windows around for games, to run work apps that I can't run under *nix, and for those times that I have to use a web site that is IE only. Normaly if I can't use a site with Knoquerer then I won't visit it. Sometimes I don't have that option.
OSX: needs nVidia Quadro
*nix: needs Photoshop native
I get the power of the PC platform, and all the graphic apps I want.
I used to upgrade Suse Linux regularly. I don't do that anymore. I have two reasons.
1. None of my good games run on Linux.
2. I spent a lot more money upgrading Linux every six months then I have ever spent upgrading Windows.
This will change in the future due to the fact that Microsoft's Licensing and upgrade schemes mean that my computer is spending a huge amount of time talking to their computer. This drives me nuts. As time progresses this is going to get worse not better.
In addition, some of the desktop apps available for Linux are getting pretty good. While still not production quality I can see that they are on their way there.
I won't use Apple because they have an even larger app problem than Linux has. On the other hand if I was into desktop publishing or maybe if I was a graphical artist. Otherwise Apple is just a toy.
Beware the wood elf!!!
Nuff said.
Well, okay, maybe not. Basically, for a *lot* of games, the mouse is a much better and more natural controller than the keyboard or joystick, which is really all the PS2 controller is.
When they come out with a mouse for the playstation 2, I'll be right there. Until then, it's the best controller yet and only available for the PC.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
When it comes down to it an x86 PC running Windows is the most usable computer at the cheapest price point with the most applications. It's as simple as that. Macs are expensive and let's not kid ourselves Linux is not easy to use. It's cheaper but not easier.. yet.
I think the problem arises in that although the OSS model works well for developing blood and guts software like kernels, webservers and databases the over-all look and feel of an OS requires monolithic control over the metaphors, semiotics and whatnot that a user has to be comfortable with to make things easy to use.
OSS tends to be highly technically progressive so much that for the casual user it's very confusing and inconsistant. If a distro was to concentrate solely on usability and not package management or utilizing the latest kernel we'd have a much more consumer friendly opensource Linux. I think OSS needs to start courting more graphic artists and designers with solid backgrounds in things like semiotics, haptics and usability in general. I hate to say it but the majority of CS majors although masters of math wouldn't know a good visual design if it bit them on the ass. The problem is that most good designers like to get paid for their work as it's argueably a unique creation. Where as implimentation of a protocol can be done by anyone with a good understanding of the fundamental concepts.
_nfotxn
Wow! lots of replys posted! I use windows basically because it is more general... like how I like PCs. Linux is good at what it is designed for. Windows isn't as good but I can do more with it. That's simply because Linux doesn't have nearly as many developers as Windows.
I have to develop on a Windows platform at work. It takes a lot of effort to stay at the top of your game when you are a developer. If I spend my time at home learning all the ins and outs of Linux, that is just taking away from my time learning the ins and outs of Windows; thus, I cannot be as effective at my job. Bottom line, Windows pays the bills and there are virtually no jobs where using Linux at work is profitable; at least in Rochester, NY.
http://www.askthevoid.com
I use winxp on my laptop and on my desktop, and I have one server that runs linux, mostly set up to do samba sharing, to play with linux apps, and to use certain tools that only work on linux.
Why did I choose linux first of all? A few years ago, my entire sophmore year and a little in junior year I ran linux BECAUSE windows95 was the only other option and it CRASHED ALL THE TIME. Linux was much more reliable.
Why did I switch back to windows? I got tired of not being able to play games, and watch divx files, and mpeg files at descent resolutions -- and also allowed to me resize the playback window. Although most of these features are fixed now and Linux has come a long way in this regard, Windoes has come a long way too. WinXP never crashes on me!
Add to that that I have a digital camera and it's just so easy to transfer pictures to my computer with the WinXP wizards.
When it comes to laptops, WinXP is ideal. It starts quickly, has a great power management options like suspend/hibernate. It speedsteps nicely when I'm off the powermains. The wireless network are autoconfigured and thanks to IBM access connections, I can even have multiple wireless profiles.
Oh yeah, did I tell you HOW EASY it is to use. I used to love mulling around to get everything to work. Now, my time is more valuable -- I'd rather have it "just work."
--min
-Backwards arrow cursor...freaky
-Left pointing hand cursor instead of up pointing hand cursor...reminds me of M. Jackson.
-Can't change video mode without dumping to CLI and editing a config file
-Poor user feedback from apps: "look in the log files"
-Sluggish gui
let me know when you can play ANY console game with more than 4 people
and when i can use my trackball and mouse to play *anything* i will consider it, however there are a huge number of bad ass PC games that never come out for console.. the reverse is also true but not nearly to the same degree..
So far I've read about a third of the posts. I can't read them all because there's a lot. But so far I have not found what I was expecting to see.
No one is claiming that they're staying on Windows because KDE and GNOME look different! There's this sense of urgency in the Linux community that unless there's a unified vanilla desktop, no one is going to want to use Linux. It seems that this is not the case.
But maybe I've missed those posts. So let me ask: is there anyone out there who has genuinely stayed with Windows precisely because KDE and GNOME don't have the same look and feel? [I'm not asking if you want them to have to same look, only if you have honestly refused to use any form of UNIX because of it]
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
No matter how fast they make the drivers, no matter how much they optimize it - a client-server based desktop environment is ALWAYS going to be slower than a non-c/s solution.
First of all, there are almost no "non-c/s" window systems left. Windows and Mac OS X are both "client server" windowing systems as well--all multiprocess windowing systems need a server to handle interaction among multiple applications. And, in fact, neither Windows nor Mac OS X applications draw to the screen directly either: in the case of Windows, they call a GDI server in the kernel, and in the case of Mac OS X, they generate PDF that gets sent to a server. Last I did benchmarks, X11 beat both Windows and the Mac OS X GUI handily in terms of performance on comparable hardware (although there certainly are going to be some graphics cards for which Windows outperforms X11, depending on driver quality).
Second, it just isn't true that "client server" is always slower than a "non client server" solution. As just one simple example, if you run X11 on a dual processor machine, you automatically get parallelism, where the application and the display code run on separate processors.
In addition, modern window systems can't help but be client/server: graphics chips have their own processors; applications effectively draw by sending requests to those graphics chips. Putting pixels directly into the framebuffer is very slow.
Finally, if anybody felt that direct rendering was important for writing a fast GUI toolkit for X11, X11 supports it: you can use DRI and fiddle around with on-screen bits as much as you like. Toolkits don't do that because it just doesn't make sense for a general purpose toolkit.
X continues to feel just a bit sluggardly on all my systems, even with the latest, fanciest drivers from whoever.
Well, the most likely cause of that is not X11 but your chosen desktop environment. For example, if you are running Gnome or KDE, that's the source of your performance problems. Those environments (and their toolkits) impose enormous and unnecessary overhead. They don't use a lot of the rendering facilities available natively in X11 and do a lot of rendering in software and then blit it to the screen. Of course, most people aren't bothered by that because even with their overhead, Gnome and KDE are fast enough on modern hardware.
The second biggest problem I have with Linux is stability. Linux itself is a rock, but I have not used a single X app that hasn't crashed at least once. It's a dismal record.
Well, you seem to be using the wrong applications, then. There are buggy GUI apps on any platform. On X11, at least you are guaranteed that a buggy GUI app can't take down the whole window system. And because X11 is a protocol rather than an API, you can eliminate the most likely cause of crashes from your programs entirely: C-based APIs. Languages like Lisp, Java, and ML have bindings to X11 that are entirely free of C code.
X11 is far more stable as a window system than anything else I have seen, and it's by far the best architecture around for building stable GUI apps because it separates the display code from the client code so cleanly (DisplayPDF and DisplayPostscript come close). The fact that there are some big and vocal projects producing buggy clients for X11 isn't X11's fault. Judging the stability of X11 by the stability of some free clients is like judging the stability of Windows by the stability of shareware apps you download.
I don't see how it's ever going to do it relying on X, and I don't see the desktop environments coming anywhere near more polished corporate-funded alternative
X11 is one of the biggest strengths of Linux. If it didn't exist, it would have to be invented.
And X11 is widely used in corporations and businesses, in particular in mission-critical applications like banking.
Ditch X and come up with a really solid desktop environment that doesn't require it, and I'll be back in a heartbeat.
We can't make everybody happy all of the time. So, have fun with Windows. You won't be missed.
Did it occur to anybody that some people just like windows, office, and IE?
I personally like them... A lot.
(Repeated for emphasis)
Windows XP does not crash on my machine. Ever.
The thing about Windows XP is that it doesn't ever seem to crash on my machine.
I don't know where all this "linux is more stable" stuff is coming from. In my experience, Windows XP doesn't crash.
Office is a fantastic package for which there isn't any good open-source competition. Even if star office were better I would not switch. I like office. It works, I can do things quickly, and it also doesn't crash.
IE is a good web-browser. No, nobody has tried to attack my computer with whatever security exploits _may_ be present in it. If they want to more power to them. After they are done, they can tell me what a blast they had doing it and we might share a beer. I simply don't care.
IE is snappy, makes a satisfying little "click" when navigating through web-pages, works with my mouse 5 button mouse, smooths fonts to make them easier to read, and is much faster than mozilla will ever be.
My other computer is a mac. I love that machine as well. OS is a pleasure to work with and never gets in the way.
The bottom line is that I like Windows XP and Mac OSX. Whatever my reasons, know this: I will not switch to linux any time in the forseeable future. Switching would only make my computer a pain in the ass to use.
One other little note: I don't want to hear any bullshit saying that I only like windows, office, ie, etc. because it's all I've ever used and don't make an effort to look for better products. I don't want to hear how on your system, mozilla runs faster than IE despite being twice as slow as mine (I won't believe this statement, so don't bother telling me).
I like windows. I like OSX. I won't switch to linux. No politics. No agenda. No hatemongering. Just personal preference.
I think, therefore I am an Atheist.
I've tried *nix before. Mandrake, because of the easy installer. I like easy. I'm a full time HS student and I work part-time (borderline full time) at a local crappy computer store. Since school is 7 1/2 hours a day for 5 days, and work is 6 hours a day (average), that is 14 hours (adding in transport time) to an average day. That means I have 10 hours to fit in relaxing (yes, I relax every day. If I didn't, or didn't try to, I would have gone insane before), sleep, food, and a new found social life (I just picked mine up this year).
That means I don't have time to go around messing around with my OS to get it how I want (tm). Admittedly, the way my XP machine is now got there after a total of 2 months or so, but they were little changes. Updating releases of software, like my GUI (Blackbox4Windows 0wnz you), as well as configuring obscure software to do cool shit (I have an Intellimouse explorer, where I can change to the next song in Winamp by clicking a side button. The side button is mapped to F11 which then is grabbed by a SW title not being produced anymore (DreamKeys) which then skips the winamp track.).
I use Windows all the time at work, fixing people's computers. Only about three of our business customers have *nix servers, and we have a guy more skilled than me there to cover that. I'm basically paid to remember and know how to get around all of the quirks in various Windowses (If Win98 doesn't boot into normal mode, go into safe mode and then restart. It will then work most likely, unless its another apparent problem).
Now I know this sounds like BS, but last time I tried Linux (Mandrake 8.0 I believe), shit either didn't work (modem, but it doesn't matter), just started working (my printer, HP Deskjet), or stopped working after working once (XMMS didn't output to my soundcard). That and finding the right software for me was a pain in the ass. GAIM was installed with bad settings, which made me have to go ask the help channel, which amazingly DIDN'T flame me. XMMS stopped working, like I said before, which led me to use mpg123 which didn't appear to recurse subdirectories when finding stuff to play and didn't support mods.
I can deal with Mozilla as a browser since it hit 1.0. I can deal with GAIM, because when I got it to work, it 0wned. I hope XMMS is fixed. Now all I need is good CD-R software to burn data and audio, a video player (I hear mplayer is good), image software (I didn't HATE the gimp when I tried it), and that's all I use on a constant basis. That, and if I could get VMWare to work, I'd be set having a virtual XP or 2K machine.
Many posters seem to be saying that particular applications or lack of linux desktop support keep them tied to windows, but I think it is something more fundamental than either.People in general don't like massive change. Once you know how to do something a certain way, it is often very difficult to willingly adjust to something new.
For instance there are a couple prototype cars out there that have a joystick instead of a stearing wheel. Most people would see that and say, "WTF?!?!?!!" Maybe a joystick interface is easier to control, they would certainly be safer where airbags are concerned... but people aren't going to run out an embrace the joystick as an auto steering mechanism.
Another example would be those "ergonomic" split keyboards. I took a chance on one and I absolutely love it. Yet, most people I know still use the old kind. Why? Because they are used to it. Because learning to use the new one well takes too much time.
A more softwarey example... Today I found I needed to get a list of all Groups in a domain and their members. After fiddling with Active Directory for about 5 minutes, I was like, wtf, I'll just do it in perl. I spend about 20 minutes trying to get Win32::AdminMisc through the proxy using ppm, give up, download it manually, spend about 20 minutes looking for a version 5xx build of perl or a 6xx compatible version of AdminMisc, give up, spend another half hour figuring out how Win32::NetAdmin works, realize that's actually what I used when I did this stuff two years ago, then write the script, most of it anyway. The point is, there was probably some easy way to get the information I needed from within the User interface, but I didn't know how, and I wasn't willing to learn when I had a known option available to me.
It's pretty obvious how this behavior pattern ties in to Linux. People everywhere have grown up using Windows. They know how to browse the web in IE, to create documents in Office, to install software, to install drivers, etc. In Linux, everything is different. Switching to even a user friendly distro like RedHat is like coming home one day to find some dude has moved all your stuff around. Your furniture is upside down, the walls are painted green, all your food has been replaced with organic variants, your universal remote control no longer works with anything, and for some reason your monitor is stapled to the ceiling. You have to relearn where everything is and spend days getting it back into a state in which you can work effectively. To make matters worse, you now have 3-10 very different versions of everything. While I like having choices, I only like making informed decisions.
So what's my point? Hell, I forget. Oh yeah, the question is what is keeping me on windows? The answer is, ease of use. I know where everything is. Of course if you asked me what was keeping me on Linux, I'd give you the same damn answer. Ever try to find free anti-spam support for Exchange (shudder)?
I use Windows on the "Main" PC, run RedHat and Debian on my two servers, and use Deb on my thick thin client laptop. I stick with Windows on the desktop because the amount of time it would take me to reach my current level of desktop mastery on linux is well worth the price of XP and probably the next Windows as well. Right now there's room for both in my world. After using linux as a server for near 2 years, I'm getting a little better learning my way around, and while I'm sure the Linux desktop is ready for me, I'm not yet ready for it.
why not?
"I would doubt, though, that one could ever successfully build an Open Source tax package."
Even if you're right (and you shouldn't be, in fact, I can see this as some poor CS Ph.D. thesis - "Natural Language Programming as Applied to Tax Law" - since the laws are supposed to be some sort of elaborate decision tree), There's no reason someone couldn't write a closed source FOR PROFIT app on Linux to do taxes. Hell, Turbo Tax could even do it themselves, and maybe write up a server version, and sell access to it...
hmmmm?
it all comes down to the regular computer users needs: he doesn't want to code the application himself, but have a working one "out of the box" - of course linux is cool and secure and sure you can use it productively, but when it comes to usability it cannot serve the regular guy.
thanks for the attention.
need an appartment or house in bavaria?
As I type this I sit in my universities netcafe eating my pizza and reading slashdot.. on a windows box. Now back in my room I've got a debian laptop and a mac os X desktop... but I almost never surf to slashdot from them. What about all the people like me who read slashdot on public computers, or from windows mandated work places... I bet the actual % of slashdotters that don't own windows is much lower than the statistics suggest. Nalanthi
I can't find my
99% Linux at home, and the remaining '95 partition is for legacy apps only : it's not allowed a sniff of the net.
.. actually I usually try IE if a site doesn't work properly, but only very rarely find it helps. Often, it's worse.).
At work, I have 2xQNX, 1xDebian, 1xWindows - but the Debian is headless (so not that useful for browsing) and the QNX browser is not much fun. Hence I browse with Windows (Mozilla
Windows is still the desktop machine, as we make several apps for Windows-using customers and need to run them ourselves too. It doesn't have many advantages for other work, but it does make half my slashdot accesses show a Windows OS.
Okay, try the newest release of Mandrake and then come back here and post with a straight face. Maybe it was hard five years ago but asian language support in Linux is now as easy as picking which languages you want during installation (I know that can be confusing for some . . . but don't blame the OS for that).
I work for a Japanese company in the U.S. and MS language support is great, if you have money to buy two separate OSes (Japanese and English). What's up with that? Guess what, many programs don't run on the Japanese OS that run on the English OS and many programs don't run on the English OS that run on the Japanese OS. What about Global IME (jamondo)? Try using that with anything other than web forms . . . I cringe at the thought of having to support Chinese under MS (3 OSes just to use 3 languages, wtf?). MS poor support for asian languages was a major reason for me to ABANDON it at home. Makes me wonder what's going on in that little borg head of yours .
Be honest next time, the real reason you keep to windows is your ignorance and misconception about the alternatives.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
As someone who Loves computers and has been around them all my life, they have never been a means of anything other than somethign to take my mind off from the rest of the world.
I have linux on a machine or two, but my main system has windows on it
This is because when it comes right down to it, I don't want to take the time to compile source code soley to get a simple program to work
admittedly, things are getting much better, and the closer linux comes to having a unified environment, so anyone with one of a thousand distros wants to install an app, that is attractive, friendly, and does not take silly amounts of tweaking, the closer I come to tossing out every copy of windows I have ever owned
"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong"
-- Denis Miller
Well, I prefer Linux over Windows, but I work in a Windows world and there are just those few critical Apps that don't run in Linux, like Office. I have tried all of the Open Source Office Suites, but they are just not up to par with Microsoft Office. I also do web development and graphics work, so I need the Adobe tools, in order to give my clients the files they need to work with my work.
I went out and tried the OS X thing, but honestly, that OS crashed more than any OS I have ever used, and after a month on it, I went back to a PIII 800 running XP and it was so much faster. The interface was so much nicer, smoother, and it doesn't crash on me. OSX was crashing 3 or 4 times a day, and I could just never get over the menu bar being fixed at the top of the screen (the stupidist thing about Macs).
I would love for Adobe to make their products on Linux, and for the XFree86 team to redo the code and make XWindows more efficient and user friendly. I would love to switch over to Linux full-time. I had for almost 2 years while in College, but the real world runs Windows, and thus, so do I.
In my home, we have 5 users (2 teenage boys, 1 ten-year-old, and two parents). We have 3 desktops machine and 2 laptops. 4 of those machines run Linux, and 1 runs windoze.
We run windoze for 4 reasons: games, games, games, and ccasionally digital video editing.
email, instant messaging, web browsing, word processing are all done on Linux. Everyone thinks it's a lot better than on Windoze. I wish WineX was good enough that I could just get rid of windoze altogether.
Because I can go to Costco, buy a computer for $500 or so, tear off the cellophane, plug it in, turn it on, and it boots up and works. It takes me maybe five minutes to load Office. I give it to the employee and say, "Here's your new computer." End of story. Times 300 employees. The fact is I don't have time for Linux. No time for config files. And where is that one? Oh, yeah, cd /usr/local/var/guido. Now what. Hmm. Ls -la. Hmmm. Oh, yeah, gotta mount the drives. And then there's that daemon. Forgot about him. But hey, it's so cool, it runs an Office CLONE, I'm so happy! Oh, yeah, it doesn't do tables, does it? well, just put some dotted lines in. No big deal. Oh, you need to download a driver for your browser? well, just go ftp it, un tar it, and make it up. You're all set. What's the problem? Oh, you've got an attachment. No, I tell ya PINE is the best email program out there, just save it to your home directory. I know it won't open in Pine. I'm trying to PROTECT you from evil Outlook. You should thank me. What if you had to use mail direct, or elm? Gee, what's this, a PINK SLIP????? Why am I out of work? I'm the smartest guy in this company! (Buncha losers. When this economy turns around I'll sure show THEM a thing or two.) Yeah, I will. I promise I will.
1) Cost is footed by work. (Also, ActiveDirectory domain support is necessary) 2) Huge selection of apps (Cakewalk's Guitar Tracks Pro on Linux? I wish.) and games. 3) Desktop usability that blows Linux out of the water. 4) Intuitive application paths, no dependency hell. 5) Wide selection of hardware drivers not written by 14-year-old Koreans. 6) Years of familiarity, for what its worth.
While I run several 2000 Adv Svrs including IIS servers, I do feel that Linux/Apache is a killer combo and look forward to mastering Apache 2.0.
So while I am primary a Windows guy, I dont knock either Linux or Windows just for the sake of knocking.
The only reason I am not 100% linux at home is music and audio software. I want to keep working on my GPLed virtual studio/sequencer, but I sure could use some help - any great C programmers out there want to pitch in - it's really waiting for a kickstart.
Nearly everyone who uses Windows is using it for the application support.
Games make a very good example since the game market is so vivrant. Nearly all the best games are released for Windows, and us that use MacOSX or GNU/Linux are lucky to get a port, and months or years after the Windows version, at that. And there's no real reason for them to make other versions since gamers will buy the Windows PC so they can play the games. Plenty slashdotters will admit to having a dual-boot or another PC running Windows just so they can play games. And it doesn't matter if you paid for your copy of Windows or if you have a cracked copy, since the end result is the same: you buy the Windows version of the game.
This brings us to a chicken and egg type of problem where developers write apps for the platform that will bring them the greatest consumer base, and then you have consumers that buy into a platform because it has the application support.
Of course, we still have developers that want to bring their product to other platforms, and might even prefer an alternate platform, but are locked into making a Windows version a priority because they can't afford to lose the market of the monopoly-inflated Windows consumer base. Vice-versa, there are consumers that would like to switch to an alternative OS, and some that would like to switch completely, but a complete switch isn't realistic because they will miss out on the products that they need or want.
Ok, now that I'm done stating the obvious, I ask the real question: What do we do about this? How do we derail this cycle? MS has already shown us how much the law affects them, and even if they were broken up, would that really affect the choice of developers to develop apps for Windows?
<rant>
I think we should put more pressure on those software developers to prioritize development for other platforms. Myself, I've started boycotting Windows software, and refuse to ever purchase anything that is released solely for Windows. I feel discriminated against for the choice I've made, and I keep thinking to myself, "Why isn't anybody taking these guys to court? They're just as bad as MS by helping to perpetuate that monopoly. They're feeding the machine." But seriously, I do think we need to bust some ass to give more of an incentive for developers to use open standards, so that someday we can use any platform we choose without consequence of being shut out.
</rant>
Exchange 5.5 compatibility. I haven't yet found a tool that will interface properly with it, so I'm forced to keep a Windows 2000 machine around to get email and calendar information on.
If we were using Exchange 2000, I could use Ximian Connector, but I've heard it doesn't work with 5.5, so I'm not going to spend the money to find out the hard way.
I have an x86 system. That gives me 2 options, Windows or *nix, technically also Solaris but, that doesn't even count. I run both, so that I get the best of both worlds. But, I do find I spend more time in Windows, and the reason behind that, is that I'm a Counter-Strike addict. Although, it's possible to run CS through WineX in Linux, I'm just not convinced it's as fast or as good as in Windows. Also, I hate X. I despise X. I wish it would die, and someone would develop a sane windowing system, and make it the ONLY one. No more KDE, Gnome, bla,bla,bla... Just make it standard!! I like the direction Redhat and UnitedLinux are going with this problem.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
I'm SA and SE in a large Windows and Unix shop. I would like to use more Unix, the Unix I mainly use is Solaris, but would like to use more Linux. But I need to use Windows app's to deal with the company execitives, to work with vendors, and others. So my desktop and laptop have Windows. Don't say StarOffice or OpenOffice they don't support the lately version of MS Office and all the embedding of Office apps in each other. For servers we are moving to more Unix, but many of our users develop app's and start using them, but for they come to us to officially become a production app. The Windows world with RAD tools like VB, ASP, and so on are so easy to use department can easily build tools they become dependent on. By the time they come to us to become a support app and server it too late to try and make them start over. On the other hand this is how some Linux projects first got started. Then for using Linux instead of Solaris is all about have support and a company who you can hold their feet to the fire when things go wrong. The executives are leary of Linux because there isn't a brick and mortar business to say that's who were using. Also Linux isn't ready for mission critical project that require HA features. I even I won't use Linux for a "Five-9's" project that I need HA. The work is going on for Linux HA, but its not ready for prime time. Now at home I split my time between Linux, Solaris and Windows. Which I use depends on what I'm doing and who its for.
i'm a big fan of microsoft for many reasons - and i know all you open source junkies are gonna hate me for this - but it gets the job done.
i'm not really that big into configuring every little aspect of the operating system, etc, etc, etc, its just more of a convenience thing.
it all depends on what you want out of a computer. if you are the type to compile and configure every little thing, then i guess *nix would be the OS for you.
i, on the other hand, use computers for convenience (and thank god for win2k/XP cuz win9x was disastrous)...i honestly don't see how linux (for home users) is "convenient." sure its pretty "convenient" when it comes to the corporate world, but as a home user, it just is not all that practical. especially if i'm not the only one using the computer. however, i tip my hat to those distros out there that try to provide a very user friendly experience (redhat, mandrake, etc).
But, and I know this is going to get me flamed, there's another thing. In the year and a half I've been in this job, I've found out that the Microsoft tools I'm using are really not that bad. Back in my dot-com Java days, I figured VB was a fate worse than death. It's not. It's pretty ugly at times, sure, but it's got a lot of nice points to it. I can whip up an application in no time at all, for one thing. I can integrate web sites, client-server components, MTS components, and databases with ease. It really is a piece of cake working with this stuff. And, I think a lot of the Linux-only guys miss this basic truth. When it comes to developer's tools, Microsoft is truly on the ball.
Why aren't there equivalent, GPL'ed tools for Linux yet? I don't mean "functional" I mean equivalent. Sure, some of the Java IDEs are nice, but most of them run kinda slow, don't they? And, you're at the mercy of the JVM running on any given Linux box. Your apps are not going to run blazingly fast, ok?
What's wrong with putting together something like Borland's C++ Builder and making it available, GPL, for Linux? Something where you have a GUI that lets you do UI design and then snap right into code, set properties, etc, without having to use multiple tools (like KDevelop and its UI designer, or am I thinking of a QT thing? It's been a while)? Maybe such an environment exists; if so I'd like to hear about it.
Basically, I think Linux needs to address this. Borland's making some strides, which is nice. I'm very interested in their new environment. But I'd much rather see something GPL'ed. Sun offers Forte, but it runs SO SLOOOOOOW on my machine. Give me something I can sink my teeth into.
I can't promise I'll use it at work -- that's not for me to say. But I'd use it at home.
Note: as far as games go, that's a non-starter with me. My gaming platform is the Playstation II. I can sack out on my plush futon, ten feet away from a big TV, and fight my heart out without getting carpal tunnel or wrecking my eyes. And, it plays DVD's too!
Farewell! It's been a fine buncha years!
but, since you asked:
1) Difficulty, and expense, in supporting two or more standards. Dual boot, emulators, running two machines, or whatever, is a pain. It also kills of your cost advantages. Businesses can't just hire MS support people, they would have to hire MS and Linux support people. Windows exclusive users don't have to do this.
2) Entrenchment. If I have a lot of Viseo files, and MS-Project files, then Linux isn't even an option. If I have already paid for the OS and applications, what's the point? It can be a pain to learn a new system, or application.
3) Confidence in big names. Names that don't support desktop Linux. Many individuals and businesses like to buy from trusted name brands, like Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, or Apple. These big name brands usually have the OS installed. You could remove the OS, but there is no cost advantage. Dell used to sell server systems with Linux pre-installed, I don't think even Dell does that anymore. Having the OS pre-installed can save a lot of time, especially since you don't have to worry about un-supported hardware. I think a lot of potential Linux users would be more confident in using Linux if they could go to CompUSA, Circut City, or BestBuy, and find a Linux system set up and ready to go. Then they could try it out and know for sure that it works okay.
4) ISP support. This applies more to individuals than businesses. A lot of ISPs may allow you to use Linux, but if call with a problem, no matter who is at fault, that ISP will probably tell you they don't support Linux. This is especially true with broadband.
5) No compelling reason to switch. No "killer" Linux applications or anything like that. I don't know of any "must have" desktop Linux application, that I can't find the equivalent for in Windows.
6) Convenience. I don't think many users want to have to order their OS from cheapbytes, or download. You can buy the full version from CompUSA, but you will bay about $80, thereby losing your cost advantage.
7) Reliability advantage is negligible at best. MS is improving. At least, in some ways. XP and 2000 seem stable enough - much improved from Windows 9.x.
8) Cost advantage is negligible at best. A PC with windows pre-installed only costs about $75 more. If you use that PC for three years, that comes to $25 a year. Just like Linux, there is tons of freeware for Windows, including OpenOffice and Mozilla.
9) Performance advantage is negligible at best. I get better desktop performance with MS. I suppose you boost performance by using trimmed down, relatively obscure, windows managers. But, you lose functionality.
10) Security advantage is negligible at best. Use decent AV software and your PC will be safe enough. Linux has also had virus attacks. The vast majority of security related problems is caused by user sloppiness, not an OS flaw.
I am an operating system mercenary. Even though microsoft is clearly evil but I don't give a damn - if it's the best thing out there I'll by from SatanSoft. I am primarily a windows user because of simplicity and ease of use. I like a pretty and simple GUI both in my development (VC++) and in normal use. In windows, everything is extremely simple to setup and 100% transparent to me - ie when I got my laptop I turned it on, it immediately connected to our wireless network at school with 0 configuration. There are times when I would like to have more control , and I do normally dual-boot on most of my machines. It is just that 80% of the time for school and 95% of the time for home I don't need more control over the OS than what windows provides. Using command line interfaces or even something like KDE is just maybe 10-20% slower than clicking around in windows (which is partially my knowledge base)and until the interface is improved enough to bring that down, I won't fully switch over. Compatibility and entrenchment are also big issues. I thought long and hard about going over to the Mac to use the unix base along with the GUI - but the hardware stopped me.
I like to play computer games and I just can't do what I want to do on a non Windows machine. I'd ship over to open-source in a hearbeat if I could.
Brought to you by the Artificial Idea Factory.
It does take time to learn. Its not a walk in the park, especially if you know your way around Windows the way most of us do.
I had always dabbled in Linux, but didn't make the switch for mostly those reasons. Then over the summer I had some time off, and I just decided, screw it, I'm sick of whining about windows going slow, crashing, etc. So I did. I spent a weekend installing Gentoo.
It took some time, but less than you think. And it was every bit worth it. Now, I am more productive, no more crashing computer, freezing apps that take 5 minutes to close (there are still freezing applications but a quick ps -aux then kill is far faster than doing ctrl-alt-del and dealing with all that crap) I can do file management tasks on the command line in half the time you can do in explorer.
Do yourself a favor, spend the time learning it, you'll be glad you did.
Games, get the same games working under linux, and I'd switch my everyday use in a heartbeat.
I think Windows is a piece of junk as an operating system. But there is software that only runs on Windows, so I have a low-end Windows laptop sitting around (I can also dual-boot my Linux machine). One of the best applications (relatively speaking) on Windows is IE--it's a decent web browser, and since the Windows laptop isn't good for much else, I use it for web browsing.
I'm 25.
I've been using MS-dos, windows 3.11, 95, 98se, 2000, xp. Since I was 10.
I've played games, learned how things work, learned the qwirks, can work with debuggers, did some programming, know basic networking, set up a company domain.
Did BBS, CC's, later slip/ppp, dsl internet, learned routers.
Never paid for OS I used for myself (aside my XT + msdos back in 87).
Basically mess around 8 hours a day with PC's and MS osses.
So now I've been working less than a year and I'm being paid $400-$500 a day (steady job) and bear responsability for over 1500 wintel users, 3 citrix farms, 4000+ IP devices, about 1000 windows clients and about a 100 NT/2000 servers, 5 domains.
I'm doing what I love and for some reason I'm being paid for it.
btw: I've installed Linux a few times and have been a developer for an open source / cvs mp3 encoder in the past.
Yet, I installed Cygwin for windows coz I found Linux just too much of a fuss.
Took me 2 days to get an USB+wireless ps 2 mouse installed in Slackware 8.1 and I never got printing to work.
Just bailed out and installed XP. Most stable and complete OS ever.
Say it like it is.
I'm up to the point I'd pay the $190 for MS XP Pro. It's worth it. And I don't give a flying f*ck about business morals of MS.
It works, I drive a benz and am a happy corporate whore.
xxx,
R
#1 - Digital audio : Sonar, Reaktor, Acid etc.
.bashrc but this will only work under certain limited conditions and will probably break the second anyone changes their boot process or upgrades their distribution. Will the value be set in X or only at the command line? Was it set for one user or for everyone? If they use a different shell. What happens? Why the hell should my java app care if you run bash or csh?
Linux is at least ten years behind
on supporting this kind of thing.
#2 - Movies! Movies! I don't need a tivo,
I just download TV shows off kazaa. The
codecs are automagically installed.
Porn etc. goes here! P2P is maximized
under this OS.
#3 - Unreal tournament
And no it does not work with my particular
Matrox card under on my particular linux
distro. I worked on this for two hours and
gave up because I can dual boot every
friday for the next year and it would
still use less of my time than
getting the damn card to work with this
one program.
#4 - Warcraft 3
God I love the Gladiator MOD
#5 - Stability
Sorry but the DESKTOP
applications are much more stable in the
windows world. Nearly every X app I have
ever used has crashed on me for no
discernable reason. Why? I don't know.
Why does Nautilus crash 2/3 of the way
through a large copy on a samba share?
I can mount the thing with smbmount and
copy it with the command line and everything
works great. Use Nautilus, it get to 90% and
it crashes every time.
People have got to finally admit that good
bug free GUI coding is just as hard if not
harder than service programming.
#6 - Configuration
Ok, one can do anything with linux in
theory. But, there are very few standards
for many important things in the OS. Linux
lets you get at everything by exposing its
entire internal state to the
scripting environment. This means anyone
can open up Vi and do some amazing stuff.
You customize it for the most part by
issuing a command into the system with a
script and you have now customized your
system. So if install a new app and want
to add it to the path for some reason. I
just crack open a file and do it. Of course
I can't be certain which file will be
called when and under what circumstances.
I'll clarify this problem. We have a very expensive server app that installs around 200 megs of data. It is Java so we support both linux and windows (and solaris). Part of the install has
to set the OUR_MAGIC environment variable. On windows, there is a library that abstracts this out for you supplied by the OS. I know that our installation will work FOREVER because this abstraction is maintained by the vendor. On linux the environment variable is shoved into
The concept of an environment variable is universal to most operating systems yet linux continues to force us to reverse engineer this particular systems implementation of this universal concept. For the user this is fantastic because they can tweak like a mad monkey. For the programmer you can never ever be sure your product will actually run after an install.
Windows more cleanly separates configuration and implementation. In windows you tell the system what you want to do and the system figures out how. On linux you tell the system what to do and it has no idea why or what was occomplished.
If you are willing to actually write a program that uses the APIs, windows is nearly as customizable as linux and your mods won't break with every little system upgrade.
I find it amazing that a community that vilifies microsoft for scripting in emails, movie files and the like uses the same mechanism for linking the various parts of its OS together. Yes it is harder to describe what you want rather than how to do it but it is worth the effort. Stop being so damn lazy.
#7 - Office
I have pushed for Open Office in my office
for years. It is not going to happen. When
you import and export every single time you
edit the file. Wierd stuff starts to happen.
PS. I hate office so damn much.
to constantly bitch about other OSs. I'm a windows user with absolutely no gripes. You want to use Linux? Thats great. More power to you. I don't want to have to recompile my kernel to install a new sound driver, but if that makes you feel smarter, run with it. This site just seems to be more pro-linux because its all the linux dorks who can't put two sentences together without bitching about something Microsoft did. The linux users that respond to this post will actually have true, heartfelt feelings about why Linux is better. My OS is just a tool. I just use it to get the job done.
3d Studio Max, Combustion 2, Photoshop (I can't stand Gimp, I'm sorry), Illustrator (still better than the KDE version IMHO) and Premiere. If these apps were on Linux (all of them, not just some) I'd switch in a heartbeat. Until then, my only option is XP Pro.
Agent: Now, before I give you the check, one more question. This place ``Moe's'' you left just before the accident. This is a business of some kind?
Homer: [thinks] Don't tell him you were at a bar! Gasp! But what else is open at night?
[aloud] It's a pornography store. I was buying pornography.
[thinks] Heh heh heh. I would'a never thought of that.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
There's no denying, Windows used to be a mess. During Windows growing pains (also known as before competition forced it to improve) I used a mac. I started using the Windows 2000 at school, and realized Windows had come a long way. My next computer was a pc, and my OS of choice was windows 2000. I've tried Linux and haven't been overly impressed. The philosophy behind open source is great. I usually look for an open source solution first to any problem. But I like to play games, and I like to use a computer with a consistent interface, and the ability to run pretty much anything. I got tired of drooling at the stuff across the fence with mac,I'm not going back there. Windows has it's share of problems, but its not as bad as the zealots would have you believe. A properly configured windows 2000 machine (and to a lesser extent XP) with quality hardware (with quality drivers) should never crash. The few times my machine has crashed it has been directly my fault. The only distro that is slightly tempting is Lindows. Give me a distro with a decent GUI (both Gnome and KDE feel like hack jobs slapped on top to me) and the ability to run all my windows apps out of the box, and signifigant IMPROVEMENTS over Windows, and I switch. I don't want to run dual-boot, so to get me to switch Linux has to offer me something Windows can't. I don't care much for Microsoft, but I already own Win 2k anyway. Just because it's open source doesnt make it better in practical terms. To get people to relearn a new operating system, you have to offer them something better then what they've got. I just don't see that.
I choose Windows over Linux because I think Windows is better.
And when I recently purchased a new computer I wanted to buy an iMac but after using one for a few hours I realised that OSX is basically an untidy, nonsensical wannabe, so I got a PC instead. I use WinXP and despite a few grumbles I'm happy with it.
This week I lost three days to a corrupted driver. I had to spend one day running diagnostic tests, a second day running multiple repair attempts, and a third day reinstalling from scratch. So after three days of cursing Microsoft, which OS would I say is the best? Windows. Because despite its faults, it does much more right than other OS's and much less wrong.
Although I am in Linux 90% of the time I reboot into Windows XP (which I dislike immensely) regularly.
I have tried heroically to get my palm pilot to sync under Linux correctly (I can get it to talk but never to sync and off course vindigo). Also, Redhat 8.0 regularly loses my printer (Epson C60) so sometimes I have to reboot to print things. I have several USB devices I have yet to be able to get to work under Linux (like my Archos Jukebox which I would think would be easy). And for all the talk that linux has become easier to install in the last few years-I think its bunk-my brand new machine with fairly standard components took a lot of playing to get to work correctly (Mandrake wouldnt even install and redhat took some serious time).
For those in Geographic and Spatial Analysis fields, Arc/INFO, produced by the Environmental Systems Research Institute (ESRI) is *the* industry standard software package. Although ESRI claims that its software will always be supportive of UNIX and will always be an open package, the reality is that the majority of their development efforts are going into software for Windows platforms. My fiancé has a MAC with OS X, and I would happily make all my machines LINUX boxes, but the fact is that as long as ESRI develops for Microsoft, my biggest, shiniest machine will be running Win2k or its most recent flavor.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard Feynman
While I would absolutely LOVE to get out of Windows, several major issues arise every time I try to completely switch:
1) My employer is all Microsoft. Since I work as a programmer, that means I have to have compatible software available at home. Unfortunately, there is no BASIC language cross platform, and since they are Visual Basic centric, that is a VERY limiting factor.
2) I have yet to find a stable, versatile music compilation suite for Linux. While I know there are wave editors, etc seperately, I need a completely interoperative suite. Wave editor, Loop Sequencer, MIDI sequencer and renderer, Redbook compliant CD imager, etc. And I do not have the time to write all those, nor the technical knowledge of audio.
3) The Gimp is an excellent cross platform image tool, Linux appears to be lacking in good high end animation and 3D modeling programs.
4) WINE may be great for some games, but I have not to date been able to get it to work effectively. I can get edit this config or vi that or whatever, but that means wasting my time there instead of working or playing.
It all really boils down to one issue: Open Source is great, but the plethora of software I need and use is not yet available meeting the following requirements:
1) Easy to install and configure. RPM is a stride in the right direction, but the dependency model has me downloading for hours just to install simple programs.
2) Runs stably every time. This one is the main shortfall in my view, much of the software is still too new to have serious usability testing or stability testing. I am willing to Beta Test if needed, and I do put my money where my mouth is when I can.
3) Interoperability. Open Office is great for that, and I have eliminated M$ Office except for Access. But in other areanas, Linux software still falls short.
You can have it fast, accurate, or pretty. Pick any 2.
In windows (2000 and XP are what I run) I can right-click on nearly anything and configure it. How easy is it to change your display resolution and refresh rate on Linux? I've never seen anything that's easy. Configure your networking? Sure if you remember or know the GUI app or config files to do it, that works fine--but if you don't you're screwed.
I think Linux will have these features within 1 or 2 more cycles, and then I'll be ready to switch (with WINE for my windows-only apps).
Get ahold of Win4Lin.
It's cheap, it's stable, and it runs every version of Photoshop I've had to use, from 5 onward.
Don't worry about speed, either. I clock most of the effects as faster running in Win4Lin using Windows 98 SE than in native Windows 98 SE and the Windows desktop in Win4Lin (which runs in a Linux window) is snappier than native Windows 98 SE as well, I assume because of the much better filesystem caching of Linux.
I also use Win4Lin to run MS Office. It's a great application and it won't cost you a bank!
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I've been using Linux on the desktop for two and a half years, with very few glitches. The vast majority of things work out of the package. The rest take only a bit of tweaking (MPlayer excepted). To me, your situation is atypical for Linux, and makes me wonder what distro/version you were running and when; nothing gets me more riled than people who complain about, say, X configuration when they haven't used a Linux distro since 1999.
USER #58 you are old
I know my company (a fortune 100) it is the corparte direction to not develope any software the restricts you to a platform I know all of the tools the we use have been ported to say java or web applications so that you can use it on multipule systems. I can say that I do only use linux/unix for work. And at home I do have a windows box, but I only use it to Burn CD's.
My wife and I have also been using exclusively Linux for last couple of years (thanks, Mandrake).
.
I agree 100% on your point about web based services. My company, which sadly is VERY MS based right now, has almost ALL of the its company wide programs for end-users on a central intranet website:
401K
Expense Reimbursements
POs
Accounting Information
etc . .
They only support Explorer, of course, but how hard would it really be to switch to, say, Mozilla if prices really got out of hand. This way of thinking has greatly crippled MS's ability to look in their customers. However, there are other fronts to worry about . . . (.net).
I toy with myself that so many webbased tools will be created that one day all you will need is a dumb i-appliance capable of rendering webpages to work. We'll see . . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Lack of standarized configuration tools...
Yes, I want a control panel, common to every distro , to configure my linux.
Everytime i switch to a new distro i have to re-learn a lot of config files, and ways of working.
We need standarization!!!
Some part of it is the prettier fonts, the other part is that I still do not have Linux under the kind of control I'd like to have for everyday use...and I happen to think Win2000 was a step in the direction of a good OS(maybe that's why MS killed it so quickly) - it's for me as I presume it is for many others: I'll leave Win completely, as soon as I have mastered Linux enough for everyday use (I'm still at the wax-on-wax-off stage, it will take some months, 'till I can really take on the bully from Redmond)
Because it's free!
Academics would probably point to the lack of documentation and usability of open source software. I'm actually doing some research on this subject with some fellow grad students at UC Berkeley. We're trying to get the developers' perspective, so if you disagree with the academics, please visit our site here:
http://lma.berkeley.edu/~prabhu/opensource.htm
Thanks...
The Mac is a waste of time: software that you can't configure because you don't have any damn option or it's too 'experimental'... Sugary sweet interface that makes it unusable (semi tranparent windows ?!? Anti aliased [=blured] fonts !?!?!? are they on acid or what ?)
The SGI and linux boxes are good for computations, grepping log files, servers and such but... user pleasure is just not there. Windows come with long delays and plenty of other UIR little things that tell you that it's just not quite right.
Anyway, that was just one more opinion.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
1. My employer provides me with a Win2k laptop.
2. My clients almost all live in a Windows-only world.
At home I use Linux (as well as some aging Macs). When clients are Linux-clueful, I bring in the Linux laptop. So the short answer to the question is "network effect."
Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
This is the only real hold-back application for me. With RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury), speech recognition means the difference between writing 500 painful words a day, and 2,000 easy words a day. With ViaVoice apparently no longer in development for linux I don't anticipate switching soon.
Microsoft Streets - we need the routing capability.
Our company uses ADP Payroll which is Windows only (AFAIK)
We also have a timeclock on our LAN and the software that polls it that interfaces with ADP is a Windows app.
Anyone tried Microsoft Streets under Wine?
I only boot to Windows for specific applications: Games (not UT2k3 though), Xilinx Device Programming (for my EE class) and Adobe software (mainly acrobat). Although it mainly just boils down to just doing EE homework in windows, then booting back to linux for the rest of the week.
On my laptop, I run mostly linux, except for D&D sessions, where I'm in windows to use Adobe Acrobat and various D&D applications. I get over 2x the battery life in linux than in Windows.
I use Linux for what it's good for. I use Windows for what it's good for. I don't feel the need to stop using Windows, or to go 100% Linux. All my work and home machines are dual boot except Servers which are Linux only. Running Windows on a server is as stupid as trying to use a Linux box to run games made for Windows. Since games require a movie-studio budget and movie-studio tool set these days, I don't foresee good open source games challenging PC/Windoze games, any more than I can foresee Windows XP suddenly being a better choice for Servers than Linux plus Samba and Apache.
Regards,
Warren
Toronto canada
At work I read via IE or Mozilla. At Home I use Linux and Mozilla. I read slashdot at work more that I do at home.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
1. Games. Yes, I know some of them are cross-platform, but many of the games come onto WIndows first, and many don't expand to other platforms. I tried working with WineX and VirtualPC. WineX still has a way to go before being able to let me toss Windows, and VirtualPC on Mac, keeping me from installing new versions of DirectX and so on. If any of you have experience or advice in the matter, share the wealth.
2. Device support. I'm talking more than just printers and such. I've been experimenting with various accessibility devices, and those that want to interact with a computer only support Windows. I haven't seen much accessibility applications/devices for Linux or Mac. In this case, I'm talking more about JAWS and the like.
Once I can get over the above two things, I'll be jumping off Gates's ship faster than a chronically-depressed lemming.
This
Why is my main computer a Windows computer?
... what is it with geeks that their how-to's have to be as comprehensible as Latin? You know, you can pick out the odd syllable here and there that you may understand, but otherwise it's all ... unhelpful.
I'd like to use a linux-based computer, but I've got the hang of this Windows machine. It edits my photos, codes up my html, creates my mpegs/mp3s to my satisfaction, and I pretty much understand how when what where and why by now.
But Linux. Linux comes with one helluva learning curve. And all them 'helpful' how-to Linux sites
So. We're slowly getting into Linux. We've bought umpteen manuals (God help me, 'Linux For Dummies' keeps putting me to sleep). We're trying to find Linux classes. We're learing by osmosis. There's this thing called Gimp out there. Mozilla is Linux friendly. I've heard geeks say that their tv card works under Linux. Someday, one day, in the near-ish future, the learning curve will plateau and I'll go Linux.
But for right now, inertia has me firmly on terra firma.
but when I've posted about it on here, I've been moderated -1, Troll (for saying "I use windows" when asked), so I gave up trying. Actually I gave up posting.
1. Quicken.
2. ??? I can't remember if there is anything else, since I figured out my digital camera and PDA.
Here is why I use linux:
[jk@localhost jk]$ uptime
4:46pm up 135 days, 31 min, 1 user, load average: 2.00, 2.02, 2.08
I have owned this computer for 136 days.
Games (Starcraft, Half-Life, The Sims)
DVDs (until someone comes up with a regionhack for the Linux Netstream 2000 drivers, or else makes Ogle play DVDs without interlacing artifacts)
My cheap little Yahoo digital camera toy
KaZaa (yeah, giFT works great, but it doesn't have very many people using it compared to KaZaa, which means I'm more likely to find the stuff I want there)
MS Word (to edit my resume; I haven't yet been able to find a Linux WP that will work on my system and read/save MS correctly)
But I use Linux for everything else. Thank goodness for dual boot!
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Linux can be pain to get and keep running.
:(
:) I really wish debian would get their act together or Xandros would start an aid program for people living in weak-currency countries ;)
Debian is lovely once it's installed, but difficult to get there. Hence I can't get it to work on my oldish system at home, but my mailserver at work (which runs pine, python, vim, screen and allows me to do just about everything I do on a computer except run the sh connection to get me there and a web browser). I'd like to try that new debian based commercial system, but can't afford it with the current exchange rate between Autralia and the US.
RPM based distributions are the opposite. Easy to install to be nice - although mandrake 9 refuses to work on my home machine (on boot after first install it tells me I have a readonly partition and refuses to go further?!?! tried several file system types, no other weird config, although there's a promise IDE card in the machine but not on that disk). But maintaining them is a pain in the ass. You have to do a throwaway every time you want to upgrade to benefit from the new stuff properly (in my experience - don't like rpms).
At work I have to use windows for my main project at the moment because I run webobjects. Although one of my colleagues dislikes the environment enough that he runs it under vmware and does everything (compiling, editing, staging) except databse management (eomodeler - yuck) under linux and emacs. My workstation is quite a bit slower - so I use his build scripts, cygwin and gvim to get around as much of WO as possible.
I've tried installing yellow dog linux on my 9600 mac at home in the last few weeks. It was version 2.1 and on book just can't load X. So I can't get mac on linux running even. Hope to give 2.3 a go in a few weeks tho.
Yesterday I had to do some bug fixing on a tomcat project and got to boot back into linux. It's a dream system for me (short of a new release of BeOS): runs recent gnome stuff, vim, screen, mozilla. However, without a sysadmin to point me to recentish debian packages (because the standard stuff is always way out of date, even debian unstable you have to wait ages for new stuff) ad help me out when my XF86Config file starts getting weird or apt-get upgrade screws up lilo so I can't boot the machine.. I struggle running linux.
For those reasons (and counterstrike) my home worstation still runs windows most of the time (although I'm in Be at the moment). With cygwin and python and mozilla, Windows *can* be bearable. Although the latest gnome leaves it for dead - in my mind a good linux setup is far and away the best development environment out there.
I wish linux was easy in all the ways BeOS is easy. Dead simple solid (and not as intrusive) boot manager, superfast and easy install that works, no rpms
Believe with me, my saplings.
Looks like everyone pretty much beat me to it for this thread so I doubt this will get read, but here goes...
Before I start, let me say that I WANT to switch to linux and I'm almost there.
I should also say that all of my servers except one are running some form of linux (usually SuSE). I keep one IIS server around for customers that need ASP and because I started on the Microsoft side.
Alright here goes...
1. The single biggest reason that I haven't switched 100% to linux is driver support. Windows has done this right, you plug in hardware and download a driver or pop in a CD and walah, your hardware works. I know this isn't 100% true, but it's at least 90% true. Linux hardware support has grown leaps and bounds over the past couple of years, but the problem is when you run into problems... If you've got an odd ball network card or other device that just doesn't want to work under linux. I think over time, companies will release linux drivers at the same time, but hopefully some of them will learn to release linux source for their drivers so that their products will rock.
2. Speed... Windows XP on my old 650 MHz Sony VAIO w/256 mb of ram runs circles around KDE for the most part. I've never tried Gnome just because I don't know how to easily switch using SuSE's built in management (yast). Anyone want to point me in the right direction for a how-to?
2. Macromedia Homesite... I really love how easy it is to use Macromedia homesite and have a nice easy global search and replace tool that doesn't require me to learn regular expressions but allows them if I know them. The color coding and various other features make it my ASP/PHP script editor of choice. Maybe it would run under Wine, but I want native speed and stability and macromedia hasn't announced a linux version yet.
Zend Development Environment is the closest thing I've found that's acceptable but ironically I've never run it under linux.
3. I like Outlook Express. It's fast, it's easy, it has all the features I need (except the ability to disable html, but you can buy noHTML for $20). I would use Mozilla but it can't tie multiple email addresses to one identity. I found the feature request for this on bugzilla, but nothing has really happened with it yet. Once Mozilla gets that single feature, it will replace the Opera/Outlook Express combo I use now.
4. Gnucash is getting better, but there are a whole lot of things I need to do (Quicken) that it can't do such as recurring transactions and loan calculations.
5. Usability... There are times when things just don't work as expected. Windows software generally costs money, but most software works as expected (most of the time.)
A couple of the things I hate are that when I hit abort and nothing happens. Different applications behave this way. Sometimes I have this problem in windows as well, but on a slower linux system it's terrible!
Also, sometimes I'll be doing things like running GNUcash's QIF import and suddenly the window I was working with gets set behind the one I was formerly working with... Little stuff like that drives me bonkers.
I can't get Gnomemeeting to work... Ah, the list goes on and on. I like linux a lot, especially for server stuff, but on the desktop, it has potential and it really can do some great stuff (and the price is certainly right.) but I can't quite switch over yet...
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Gotta have my games. Empire Earth, Mechwarrior, MechCommander, Delta Force, etc.
I use Linux everywhere at work and at home. All of my systems are either strictly Linux or at least dual-boot. I won't give up Windows until there's a decent amount of games I can live with for Linux.
I am reminded of a commercial on TechTV about TechTV's help area on their web site staring Cat Schwartz, Cat says "I was talking to this guy at a bar, I said I just up graded to Windows XP. I asked him what OS he used. He said he used Internet Explorer." Thats high-larious (a little C. Montgomery Burns saying ;) ).
I stay on windows beacuse Windows is easier to manage, I don't have to find a million different libraries just to run one simple program. And the hardware I run is usually supported out of the box by windows. And I don't have to edit any config files just to get a sound card to work. I run Linux as a secondary OS and I enjoy it's flexability and stability, but from a laziness standpoint it's just easier to run windows. I just want to do what I do without hassle. Linux is getting to that point, and for being a mostly volunteer effort is quite impressive. The range and diversity of applications
is boundless under Linux, but it's a hassle to get alot of simple things going. And untill that is fixed, it will always remain my secondary OS.
At first, I was a bit apprehensive. Although I have been using linux for servers since '95, the incompatibility with documents produced by my windows-using brethren at work seemed like a huge obstacle. Plus, our IT department in its infinite wisdom has us using Exchange. My job entails that I am able to use various plugins such as RealPlayer, Flash, Shockwave and Quicktime, which worried me as well.
Last but not least, I was never very impressed with the visual performance of Netscape on XFree86. The fonts were always rendered poorly, which would cause pages to get horribly formatted. This is a very bad thing for a person working on a web application.
Nevertheless, I trudged forward and found that Netscape 6.x has fixed the display problems. Flash and RealPlayer plugins exist for Linux, and the others can be run via Crossover. OpenOffice, while not 100% perfect, bridges the document-format gap at least for reading documents. samba provides access to SMB shares. Evolution is a damn fine personal organizer that works well with Exchange (in the email sense).
So, I have had remarkably little trouble using linux in a shop with Win2k desktops, Win2k servers, Exchange, and Solaris servers.
To those who claim Linux isn't stable, I say phooey. This machine has never crashed, and typically goes for months without a reboot. There are some unstable applications, but that is a different story altogether. I cannot say this about any Windows desktop I have ever had access to, I've seen all of them go down at least a few times.
Problems I have had using linux on the desktop include:
- Lack of a good diagramming tool, a la Visio. dia is extremely immature
- Lack, until recently, of a good UML tool. Argo has come a long way, and is nearly a viable alternative to Visio.
- OpenOffice will generate documents that are somewhat compatible with Office. They're legible, but will contain some funny characters.
- FlashMX has some problems in crossover, especially in the area of loading shim files and accessing a backend on a different domain.
- No Flash authoring environment. Luckily, I don't have to do this very often.
- No way to play Windows Media. Of course, if people would just stick to Quicktime...
- I have had chronic problems getting gnome-pilot to talk to my Visor.
Anyway, just a few. Notice they're all application issues, not OS problems. Of course, I guess that's really what keeps people tied to a given OS.Compared to the quality of applications on the Windows platform, I'd put the major desktop applications for Linux averaging out at the quality of Windows apps ca. 1996. Four years ago I would have put them at 1984, the desktop is maturing and gaining ground on Windows at a very rapid rate. In fact, the quality of the desktop and the applications have improved drastically in the past 18 months, thus the momentum seems to be building. I wouldn't be surprised to see Linux become at least as viable an alternative to Windows as Mac OS X is for the average user within the next several years.
I've been working on Windows practically my whole life (I was about 8 when 3.1 came out). At the beginning, it's just what I had, and then it was more what made sense--I played lots of games. I had a couple Macs in middle school, along side the family PC, but I didn't use them for anything more than word processing.
Then early on in high school, a buddy turned me on to Linux. I installed an early version of Red Hat, and was intrigued. It was nice hacking fun, but it didn't work as predictably (predictably unpredictable) as Windows did for me, nor did it have the software I wanted, but rather ugly open-source reverse-engineered clones.
Now I'm waiting for my new Powerbook G4 with a superdrive and OS X. Why did I switch to Mac? Well, I didn't. It's not replacing my desktop, because, well, I still play games. I got the Mac to do music on, and to burn DVDs, and it's just so freaking sexy and little and light and sweet and cool, and image-concious, and all those things. WAY better than my crappy Dell Inspiron.
Oh, Janie Porche really turns me on with her girl-next-door good looks, and if I were like, two years younger, I'd be all over Eileen Fiess.
----------------
What's brown and sounds like a bell? Dung! --Eric Idle
For me the big item is ease of use. Most things are way more complicated in Linux, and the lack of a central standards organization is a serious cause of that.
Linux has a long long way to go for usability before the majority of users can consider it a viable option. Many people couldn't even install Linux, let alone use it. Linux has made great strides when it comes to ease of use, but as far as I'm concerned it's still back in the late 80s as far as use go (Not talking about how nice KDE/Gnome looks. That has nothing to do with it)
Title says it all. Who wants to spend hours trying to get shit to work when you could just intall and play under windows. I think this is the most over-looked piece of the pie. Not all of us have endless hours to piss away trying to make things work. I use linux where it makes sense, for everything else, I use windows.
Stating that they use a mac, but how is Apple a better company that Microsoft? OSX is not free and surely Apple has been just as protective if not more when it comes to it's intellectual property and Trademarks. People seem to be reading too much Wired, buying a product from a particlur company doesn't mean your part of some "movement."
Wordperfect. The linux version stinks and there is no wordperfect for Mac OSX. If corel ever makes a modern mac version, I'd switch in a minute.
And before you ask, no, I don't want to run it in emulation.
I realise that is the fault of the developers who built the site, but it does go a long way in dispelling what I wish was not the case, MS did win the browser war, how? They are keeping people on Windows first and foremost and secondly a large number of people have to use their browser if they are to go about their daily online activities.
What in the hell are you talking about?
Last time I checked I was running every single one of my applications on my computer, except for, as you noted, information-access applications that need real-time information (like news sources, currency converters, etc). There is not one single application that I run that is not an information-access application that runs over the web.
Photoshop isn't web-enabled. My games aren't web-enabled. Illustrator isn't web-enabled.
I don't know what's worse, that you actually posted this and probably believe it's true, or that you got modded up as being insightful.
While I use Linux and Macintosh, I use a Windows-based computer at work out of necessity. Also, one of my computers at home will probably always run some version of Windows for games.
However, with the amount of games I own, and the number of fantastic games out there that will run on 2000 and below, as well as a number of other platforms, I will NEVER go to anything beyond 2000. Screw DRM and the end of privacy.
I finally broke down and returned to the Mac once OS X settled down and became usable for all of my work.
However, I am thinking of putting together a Windows box just to play games-- the only thing that I miss from Windows.
The thing that keeps me from using Linux daily is its lack of decent support for double-byte character sets. All *nixes that I have seen so far are about 15 years behind both the Mac and Windows in terms of gracefully handling Japanese and other double-byte character sets. Since I have to use these languages for most of my work, Linux sadly just isn't usable for me, and it won't be until it can handle those languages across most apps in the same way that the Mac OS (and to some extent Windows) does.
Wonder how many years will it be until most Linux productivity/communications apps are Unicode-friendly, and a graceful FEP is available?
CC-licensed translations of Japanese fiction: http://tonygonz.blogspot.com/
Yeah, it works under WineX, but the sound's all screwed up. So, basically the only thing keeping me booting to Windows is the sound effects in Civ 3. That's actually kinda silly now that I think about it.
I've got 3 desktop machines attached to a KVM. I use whatever one I happened to be using at the time to read Slashdot.
:P
Sometimes I was playing with the XP box to work out issues with Mac OS X Server/Samba.. I'll browse from that box for a while.
Sometimes I'll play with Mozilla on the SuSE box.
Other times I'll be using the Mac OS X box to goof around with.
But honestly, the reason I use XP these days is because it's on the fastest machine I own. A blazing 1.3ghz.
Mac OS X on a beige G3/233 with 192mb RAM and stock video is..well, it's kind of like smacking yourself with a shovel, except a bit less painful.
Anybody want to add to the "Buy Jon a new G4 fund? PayPal me sum cash at drstein@mac.com!"
Hasn't this been beaten to death already? Really.
No...really!
I am in the USAF, but to much of my dismay, much of my time is spent working with Windows. Thankfully, part of my job is dealing with our firewalls (which are unix based), but I still have to deal with Windows on all of the workstations and when helping the other shops out, fixing windows problems and other MS product related issues on NT and 2000 servers.
At home, I use Windows 2000 because my wife doesn't like Linux. She doesn't get the whole community or the challenge or the fact that it just isn't Microsoft. There are plenty of times I hear her bitch about how the computer (Windows) wouldn't do this or that, but when I mention that there is an alternative, she promptly replies,"I don't like that black screen stuff." I still have my other computer running Debian and I have a laptop dual booting (it's the AF's) Mandrake and 2000, but the fact that she has to hit scroll lock twice to change over to the 2k machine is enough hassel for her.
At this point, I can't give her a good enough reason for her to learn something else, especially when she can do everything she wants in Windows. My justifications just don't work for her. I am a completely different sort of user than her, not to mention I am always wanting to learn something new. Until I can convince her otherwise, I will continue to use Windows when I have to and Linux when she doens't want to get on the computer any time soon.
Happy wife, happy life...
DG
There is no industrial software for Linux. In fact no other OS is used since Unix mostly died in industry. If you do any large-scale industrial automation and have customers, you cannot pay the bills with out using the following. Autocad (even if you Micro Station you should have a copy of Autocad) And one or more of the following venders development platforms. GE AB (Alen Bradly) Siemens Modicon And hundreds of smaller venders that only use MS OS. I like Linux but I am paid for productivity, period. If you show up at a job site and you are not using the standard software that everyone in automation uses no one will pay you.
If there were as many games for Linux as Windows, I would happily throw all my M$ software away forever.
But there's no monopoly, oh no. It's not for that reason that every single game that's meant to be played on a computer comes out for M$ but a tiny fraction of those for Linux. No, Sir.
Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
This is probably reduntant but since it's more of a poll question...here goes. Games is the only thing keeping windows on any of my computers. I haven't upgraded from Win98 since the games still work on it. As for everything else it's Mac OSX, Linux, or QNX. Depending on what I'm doing. Mac has become my primary in the few months.
I don't use Windows, and don't let my Opera browser masqurading as MSIE 5.0 fool you, I ONLY run RedHat, Mandraake and Solaris8!
My wife's machine is Windblows 2000/SP2 `cause of a shitty windows only program she has to run (no it won't run under wine).
I'd like to see the end of MS as an operating system vendor and have them port their apps to *nix.
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
For me its Photoshop & Quickbooks. And, believe it or not, I like Mozilla on windows better than Linux because of the quick start feature there. At least with Transgaming, Warcraft III is no longer an excuse. :)
Should be pretty obvious that people read /. at work, and the majority of computers in the business space are WinDOS boxes.
man rtfm
It's the file formats. Not the apps themselves, but the goddamned proprietary formats. I use Linux at home and my wife & son use OS X, but I'm stuck on W2K at work because of complex Word documents and inscrutable Visio files. Just a few minutes ago, I overheard the document production manager for my company (responsible for coordinating big bids/proposals) insisting that she needed Office XP because there might be subtle errors in some of the complex Word XP documents that she was trying to open with Word 2k. Now if I had my druthers, the answer would be a resounding "no" and those who were producing documents and failing to save as RTF or other slightly-more-open formats would be thrown from the roof onto pikes, where they would hang impaled as an example to others.
.DOC files you bought into it and asked for a copy of Word? Let's use the same method to wean people off the bad stuff and onto the good stuff. It needs to be trivially easy for people to save and work in open formats. First, the OpenOffice developers need to write application plug-ins for Word, Excel, and Powerpoint (on Windows and Mac) that set/enforce an open format as default. Motivated IT folks can install the plug-in everywhere, and let MSOffice's auto-convert feature hide the gory details of what's going on. Then we need a compact viewer program (or set of programs) that are quick downloads -- preferably under 1MB, and available on every notable platform. Remember, MS got a hell of a lot of market penetration through Word Viewer, Excel Viewer, and the like. Pretty soon the office will be using open formats with minimal pain within MS Office . Someone outside the office complain about open formats? Send 'em a tiny open viewer program. They whine about editing it? Give 'em the open format converter plug-in and a link to the OO.org site for a full download. But...
But that's just me. I'm more concerned than the average geek about the long-term viability of my company and the ability to retain knowledge over the course of many years. Sure, I downloaded and use OpenOffice. But there are idosyncracies within proprietary documents that just don't translate well, and it's difficult to convince others in the office to save-as to anything but the latest default format. They're just too lazy, and don't have the foresight to understand that saving in the format-of-the-day is bad for knowledge retention. Thet're more concerned about kewl toys and not looking behind-the-times. Even my local IT lead referred to the Office XP upgrade as a "tithe," unable to cite even one functional requirement that the latest upgrade would satisfy. The result is that we waste money on unnecessary app upgrades. And with them come the recursive traps that are proprietary data formats.
Here's a first step: Proliferate open, fully disclosed, non-patented formats. What should those formats be? The OO XML formats are a good start. The Microsoft XML formats are contaminated with proprietary external reference bits and are a very bad start. I've read postings (a good one on OReilly.net) to the effect that open file formats ought to be required for government procurement. Bravo; that's a nice start. But the immediate obstacle is a practical one, and a very real one at that: You and everyone else in your office needs to get work done, and any switch must be unobtrusive.
So let's embrace and extend the Microsoft dime-bag model. Remember (for those old enough) how someone sent you a MSWord document that you couldn't open, and refered you to the downloadable MSWord Viewer? And when you got a few more
But don't try to displace MS Office with OpenOffice or anything else. Let Microsoft do that. Let the users come to their own conclusions based on experience. If you have enough people using open formats and there's an obvious alternative, you need only wait for Microsoft to come asking for tithes in the form of license renewal payments. Don't spend the time and effort to try and rip it out roots and all; let it whither and die in the ground.
Jon "open formats to the people"
I think not...(*poof*)
Some consoles are just now getting into the TCP/IP market, and some have been there for a while with modems, etc. But for the most part, people don't have their consoles attached to the internet, and there are only so many games/services that will work this way.
On the contrary, the vast majority of games on a PC have some networking built into them. Look at the success that Doom, Quake, EQ, etc. have had, and it all came from having the networking ability. Add that to the console, and perhaps we'll see things change.
1) setup.exe (RPM is a step in the right direction, but I can count the number of times setup EXEs have let me down with the fingers on one hand) .NET (yes, it really is that good, whether you're into C# or not)
2) Visual Studio
3) Games
"Break out the gin, and the small violin, I'm a raging success as a failure." --Firewater
I use Linux as my main OS, but I still have VMWare with Windows running inside of it for two reasons: pcAnyhwere (no, vnc just doesn't work as well or as fast) and Internet Exploder (for the occasional site I want to go to that requires it). I also run Windows as the only OS on my laptop. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure why I still run it on the laptop.....
I really shouldn't have used someone else's email address for this account.
I'm not keeping Lindows, I'm blowing it away and installing Suse Pro on everything.
Yeah, I use Windows. Currently I'm running XP. I would absolutely LOVE to run linux. Things like a powerful command line and what not seem really cool. I used to use the command line in Win95 more than I actually used the "modern" way microsoft had designed for me to manage my system... and then a strange thing happened. I got used to using windows. The simplicity of dragging and dropping. The ease of hardware installation. Mostly everything just works (with a few exceptions which I'm sure 100,000 people here will point out if asked).
:)
:)
Once in a while I hear about a major advance in linux GUIs and I feel the need to check it out. The latest RedHat was on my computer for about two weeks. I had four major goals. I was going to mount my fat32 partitions so I could play mp3s, I was going to find some way of watching divx movies, I was going to install ZSNES, and I was going to make sure I didn't reboot into windows in defeat. I got the partitions mounted, but aparently my pos yamaha sound card doesn't like linux because I got some random skippage in mp3s and if i so much as switched desktops it would pause for a moment (yes, i tried running it in realtime priority). ZSNES rpms suffered from dependency issues (I had the packages installed, it just didn't think I did) which I solved with the help of a friend. I never did get the videos working.. That was a major sticking point for me. But regardless, the two things I accomplised in two days, the video stuff I wasted about four more on, and I finaly gave up. I don't have plenty of time to learn how to get around little cavets. That's what really killed that redhat partition. Well, that and fdisk. Fdisk killed it but good.
In any case, I'd just like to append a random question.. Why is there no waiting indicator when you go to run a program? It's confusing as hell because without looking at the running threads I have no clue if linux even bothered to do what I asked it to...which in some cases leads to me opening like 3 different instances of a program.
The #1 resaon: Because I am deathly afraid of sending my resume out in non-Microsoft Word format. If my resume shows up messy on the other end, it goes directly to the round file. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. This affects my life, and I can't have that.
Other reasons: Apps. If I want MP3 library software, (not just MP3 players) I can choose from 20 or 30 different alternatives and get all the features I want. I can't get that many on Linux.
Games - Same as the rest of these folks. Can I play Grand Theft Auto 3 on Linux? I don't know. I know that I don't like consoles and I know I can play it on Windows.
Hardware - If I buy a piece of hardware, I know the company will provide drivers for Windows. I don't have the time, money, patience or programming skills to make sure that my $20 USB Smartmedia reader works in Linux.
I hate Microsoft as much as anybody, but it isn't a 'cause' for me. I have enough frustration and inconvienence in my life. I don't need to add more just to spite Microsoft.
Besides using Director to do mac/pc development on windows 98...
I use one of my 6 macs. It is all about the UI and user experience for me.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
I am using windows 2000 currently, and have been a windows user for almost all of my computing experience. I keep using it for several reasons, but primarily because MS gave me the licensed disk, a rep came to our campus and passed them out to students, the meetings were only advertized in the CS wing of the campus, but they never asked about majors. So this removed one of the major advantages of Linux over windows, cost. Win2k is more than stable enough for my needs, and I haven't had any major security problems yet, although I'm certainly not advertizing my IP just in case.
I have run Linux in the past, even on my main computer, and while it was an excellent OS, star office 5.2 for linux was much slower than the windows version, it was un useable on my P133, which was my only PC at the time. I needed an office suite, of at least that capability, si I had to switch back. I realize that Open office and SO 6 are probably much better now but really like Win2k.
I like it because I play the occasional game, and most of them seem to run much better on Windows, if on anything else. It also comes in handy at work, where we use Windows, and I end up being the quick problem guy, our tech is usually busy, and I'm next door, so my officemates, usually pop in to get some help. I do run Linux on my second PC, but I don't boot it as often as the Windows one.
In the future, I am thinking that my next PC will either be an old workstation, hopefully an Alpha (21264 if I can find one) or a Mac, MacOS just looks nice, although HP's Power stuff gets pretty cheap on the used market too. If those hammer's, or Opeterons, or what ever are cheap enough I might build something based on that instead. If I run an old workstation, I will probably have to run the UNIX flavor that their supposed to, or maybe BSD, I don't know about Linux on the PA stuff, but Linux on the alpha's works pretty well. A Mac would run OS X, of course, and the hammers would probably get my Win2k again, maybe linux.
If I do any server level stuff, I am thinking about a client server level system in my next place. Silent, flash or similar clients in strategic places with a main server somewhere, and possibly one real PC in a den or something, the server will probably run Linux.
Those are just my current leanings, and they could change tomorrow with new information.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
I do support for people who fuck up their windows box. Often, windows can even fuck up by itself.
For example, someone called me telling his XP won't boot. The error was : "unable to mount boot partition". Of course, the safe mode won't boot either, and booting from the CD won't work. I did boot at last but NO WAY this could have been done by a basic user.
Thank you micro$oft, more easy money.
So i use windoze to keep updated about what's happening with their OS. But all my data is on ext2fs.
-- number of XP forced reboots today : 2
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
(Now, before you start cracking your knuckles in anticipation of crafting a response, please, read on.)
This is not to say that Angelica (the Linux box) is unstable or packed to the brim with nearly every possible application for my needs or even lacking an easy to use interface. The truth is that there is just too much tinkering possible with Linux.
How many times have you intended to play a single game of solitaire before returning to your coding only to discover that five hours later you have somehow decided that the best use of your time was to configure an apache server so that your (meaning only you, for there are no other home occupants that might find it useful) network would have an intranet?
Does it really help your productivity when a voice in the back of your mind is urging you to figure out how to change the block colors in L Breakout 2?
Granted, Angelica doesn't have all the software I need, she loads programs slower than an Apple II E preparing the cut scenes for Space Quest 2 (cursed Mandrake), and my windows machine appear on each other's network neighborhoods easier than two GameBoys linked for Mario Tennis - but ultimately it is the tinker factor that forces me to work in XP.
I'd love to write more, but I have to go fiddle with my samba config.
Oh how these stroker questions are adored. The automatic assumption that Windows is crap and we'd all be using something else, anything else, if there wasn't some overriding factor controlling our destiny -- Windows-specific pornographic video games in all likelihood.
Strokers.
I have been using linux on and off for a long time. Back in the days of slackware 97, all the way to currently when I am using Redhat 7. And in all that time one thing that has been constant is that many of the major GUI applications are slow. This is not related to the Video Response speed as was previously posted, This is related to the gui applications being hungry on system resources. First, when you compare the speed of GNOME, or KDE to the speed of fvwm or another simple windows manager, the difference is astonishing. I used to run linux on a Pentium 133 with 64 MB of RAM. When KDE and GNOME first made their appearance, they really slowed things down but were stil runnable. Then the new version of KDE, I think 1.2 I'm not sure as it was a while ago, but suddenly the next version was super BLOAT. And the same is true of GNOME although less though. But not even counting that let's consider office alternatives besides applixware which was pretty fast. Star Office, I needed a giant swap file to even run it, using top revealed that star office was using about 80 MB of RAM. It ran slow as hell to start, and then to do any task it ran super slow. Meanwhile Office 97 ran no problem on that computer. Now I have a Celeron 600 with 384 MB of ram. KDE and GNOME still run slowly, but they are tolerable. However there is an annoying habit of when I do something computationally intensive for everything to freeze up for a while. In windows things don't freeze up on me and I can still use other apps. But ignoring that Mozilla runs unusually slow to start up, and it is really easy to crash, and sometimes it takes the X Server with it. Star Office used to crash, not sure how good it is now. And Open Office, while it shows A LOT of potential, it takes about 7 minutes to start on my computer, and then to do any tasks takes FOREVER. Meanwhile Office XP starts in a flash and gives no problem. Also a problem with Open Office can result in the x server shutting down, or another common property of X which is the screen will freeze, no keys on the keyboard will respond...and in the previous versions I could use the Sysrq button to do emergency syncing, but now even that is unresponsive. Meanwhile in windows when an app gets really bad I can control alt delete it. I run Windows ME with all the security patches and I have yet to see the blue screen of death. Now some of you may be saying that my hardware is outdated. But any good algorithm book will teach you that a better algorithm always results in more savings than a hardware upgrade. Futhermore Microsoft Products(Windows ME, Office, and so fourth) have absolutely NO problems at all with my system resources, in fact office is QUITE FAST. So why should I have to deal with unbearably slow application times or to go out and spend a fortune on new hardware. Games do push a machine to its limits, but the office suites should not. A lot of the bigger GUI applications use a tremendous amount of system resources. Now I'm not trashing open source at all. It is great and as with the linux kernel given time most of these applications will use less system resources and will become more stable as will the X server. But as for right now this is why I stick to windows as my main OS and linux for just experimenting. This is not to even mention all of the special hardware that just works on windows. Web Cams, The Barbie game mentioned in one post, certain scanners, Packet Writing on cd rom drives. Right now true linux users need to make a lot of compromises and a lot of arguments talk about laziness. But one of the goals of operating systems is convenience and ease of use. Linux has a long way to go. The problem is not lazy users glued to windows to point and click who must get off their butts and use linux, the problem is linux must be more adaptable for the lazy users. But linux is making great progress and given a few more years it will replace windows on the desktop. However for specialty servers you just can't beat linux. Without using X, linux is great...the shells work wonderfully, it is more customizable and programmable than DOS will ever be. With the exception of the JDK, that is resource intensive and it crashes bad on linux when it fails. GUI wise, linux has A LONGGGGGGG way to go. But go linux....
I use PDF file format for my CV, it's easily readable by acrobat reader.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
All of my home servers (nfs (I use the SFU product for workstation connectivity), www, sql, etc are Linux, but stuck with Windows 2k for my worksation (reasons below). If I were not using Windows, I would probably try to use Linux, but there are several essential things I can not accomplish with Linux (and refuse to drop the money on a decent Mac): 1. My company uses the Checkpoint "Secure Remote" VPN client, and there is no Linux port. Not practical to have this on another computer, or dual boot, etc. It's got to be right there at the touch of a button. 2. Company uses Funk Software "Proxy" remote control software. Same reason as #1. 3. Last time I checked there was no way to watch DVD's on the computer, which I like to do while surfing. Is there a Linux DVD player now? 4. Lack of Linux support for the integrated Promise ATA RAID card on my workstation mobo. It works well. I like it. Unfortunately Linux support for Promise ATA RAID hasn't been the best thus far. 5. Lack of support for the advanced features of my ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 8500 card. I like the extra features like being able to watch VCR movies on my Workstation, and last I checked ATI wasn't creating those apps for Linux. 6. I know where everything is on Win2k workstation. Sorry, lame reason I know, but not knowing where things are on my workstation drives me batty. I only use CLI on my many linux boxes. Plus Win2k workstation has been a very useable, and reliable desktop for me. I like it. Linux, and other OSS have been efficient, reliable performers for my server computers, but I'm a long ways away from switching to the Linux desktop, although I hear Red Hat 8, and Gentoo are both nice.
Ho's love it when you roll up in windows, its like driving a porsche.
It doesn't help any that I'm actually a Windows Systems Administrator... :)
:)
Actually, I've used Linux on my home PCs for several years now.. running Gentoo now, but started on Slack in '94.
Unfortunately, the nature of my position at work requires me to use a Windows PC to manage all those darned Windows server. I've replaced several servers with Linux, but I suspect until a majority of them are replaced with Linux boxen, I'll still be using Windows on my PC. *sigh*
It's kind of ironic... being the lead NT/2K server admin at our company, and being wholeheartedly sold on using Linux instead. Just gotta convince the PHB's
Yes! This is a BIG problem.
Nobody makes pro-quality apps for audio production that run on Linux!!!
Sonic Foundry make some bad-ass apps, man...Sound Forge, ACID Pro, Vegas Audio, Vegas Video.
There is NOTHING like them on Linux yet. Write me something that works like ACID and I will happily remove one more machine of mine from the Redmond Collective.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
All that keeps me on Windows is the fact that Wine won't run one critical app that has never been ported to Linux, and my DVD player won't work without the Windows-only driver for the proprietary MPEG accelerator chip.
Bleh.
(If anyone has found a Linux driver for the Tecra 780DVD's accelerator, tell me! You can't play DVDs software-only on a P266!)
Me, my wife, and both of my kids all use Mandrake Linux. I have a windows box that runs headless so I can use Quicken. When my bank decides to let me use free software to access *my* information, I will be able to drop the windows box completely. I use it with rdesktop, so it's still on my gnu/linux desktop.
I say that anybody who preaches free software and doesn't do it is chickenshit to take the plunge. Saying that, however, I develop free software that runs cross-platform, becuase I know that if I want to build a good-sized userbase, well, my target user uses either windows or mac.
Overall, though, as far as usability, KDE is at least as usable as win95, possibility even win98. Since Microsoft hasn't innovated anything in userinterface since then, that means it's a close equal to what's available now. The only catch is you can't copy and paste from one window to another (I don't mean just text, I mean being able to drag a file from Konqueror into your OpenOffice document and having it automagically deciphered and displayed properly).
Note I said "OVERALL". Feature by feature, sure some things are harder (noteably software installation) and some things are easier. Add it all up to get "Overall".
As for me, I own a PC running Windoze. In my hopes and dreams, I would love a Mac, and I've already decided that the next computer I buy will be one. At the time, I bought a Windoze PC because it was more flexible for adding hardware, the Macs that were out at the time (beige G3s) wouldn't run my fave video compositing software without crashing, and of course, the wide variety of games
And yep, I have a dual-boot setup (Windows 98 and Windows 2KPro-- my boyfriend wants to put Linux on there when I finally get a Mac, though ^_^).
Win98 is on my main machine only for EQ.
What the heck is this? >>
While I did pay Microsoft for Office for Mac, I try to avoid filling their coffers whenever possible, so for all the family/friends who rely on me for computer recommendations I recommend Mac or Linux.
Sounds like maybe you need to put your money where your mouth is pal. You use office but tell everyone else not to?
I started with nothing and I still have most of it.
Howdy,
:)
this will probably be lost in all the posts, but in my opinion this is the biggest reason. You can talk about instability or security all you want, but my WinXP system just plain works and it works well. All the fighting Microsoft has done to keep competition in line and monopolize the desktop has yet to HURT the end user. Yea yea, I can be on the other side as well and talk about how it CAN hurt the end user, but it hasn't.
You see I have two kids, a wife, and hopefully a job. My hobby is not tweaking my system, like a lot of Linux people do. And as far as stability, this is a big joke when it comes to the user desktop. Windows is far more stable than Linux when it comes to the desktop (NOT SERVER, DESKTOP). Stuff works and doesn't need to be tweaked or configured to work.
Or to put it another way:
If a windows app crashes its because windows is unstable. If a Linux app crashes its because its not configured correctly.
So really, I expect most readers know the answer to the question, but its always fun to argue about it. I also find it interesting that a more recent article is talking about how security patches are available for Linux but noone is applying them. I think that's why Microsoft added automatic updates, don't you?
-mark
I went to install RH on a friends computer, and it was completely unsucessful. I'd guess the opensource nv target for XFree86 doesn't (yet) support GeForce 2 Go, and VESA also didn't want to work, but linux these days should work "out of the box" if it doesn't what's the point. I will get it running with the commercial drivers (as soon as I have the bandwidth to download them) but if the opensource solution doesn't work RH should be willing to include the commercial drivers on the RH distro.
This is keeping my friend from seeing linux the way I want him to.
shawn
Here are the great throngs screaming Open Source, Open Source, and then they ditch Windows for Mac OS X. I guess Apple in their minds must be a more benevolent dictator; he's giving them cake to eat instead of bread. Guys, this is Steve Jobs we're talking about, and while he certainly has charisma, he (and Larry and Scott) would like nothing more than to be Bill Gates in terms of marketshare. Apple will flirt with OS until it's served its purpose (to drag all the OS-praising sheep from Windows over to the Mac), and then it's back to the dungeons and the flogging. Kind of like the Mac clone days.
I use *BSD for all my server needs and I have one Win2k workstation. As much as I love and enjoy using *BSD operating systems, Mozilla (my primary web browser) seems to be way more responsive on Windoze. Web browsing is pretty much all I use the workstation for, maybe a quick game of quake and a whole bunch of ssh sessions. Once I have enough money for a new Powermac G4 I will say goodbye to Win2k (as a desktop OS) forever.
Also the "WM" is completely different than what does the fonts. Part of the problem with Linux is that too many things do the fonts, but the Window Manager is one of the things that does NOT do fonts. You probably mean the X server, though a plausable solution to fonts is to make most of the work (and all of the potential problems) in a user-level library and not in the server.
Well...how many of us are typing our words of wisdom on a QWERTY keyboard? Fucked up? Of course it is. And yet it works and works well. Go figure.
Is it fascism yet?
At my work, we'd love to move to linux. We may have to, anyways, due to government budget cuts. However, the difference between MS-SQL and MySQL or PostgreSQL is HUGE. No enterprise manager is the biggest thing, for us. Lack of triggers, cross-database query support. It'll suck, big time.
As far as calendaring, we used a 3rd party sync program for Outlook. Was very buggy, so we just recently (earlier this month) installed Exchange, and everything works, easily. Even my boss has admitted, it wasn't the IMAP, it was that the CEO wants to see calendars, and that requires outlook (no, Evolution doesn't SHARE calendars. It doesn't even speak iCalendar).
. Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
Eventually. But at the time it was damned frustrating.
I guess you folks who speak *real* English, with proper spelling and pronunciation, get just as irritated with the weird US default settings, and rightly so. I know that the US isn't the center of the universe, but if you want to sell office apps here, you gotta do the 8-1/2x11 inch thing. AbiWord worked OK with US Letter, but I had to type in "-P drivername" every time. Forgetting to do that generated pages and pages of printer codes (but it was US Letter size). So screw it, Windoze is easier, everybody knows how to use it, and that's what we're sticking with on all the desktops. When Linux can do everything Windoze can do, as easily as Windoze does it, and then has a topper to make switching worthwhile, then people will switch. As long as Linux is a me-too desktop with less functionality and fewer apps, Windoze will rule the desktop world. But I would never use Windoze on a server. No way, no how. *nix rules that world, and always will.
Microsoft lost the browser war...... Marc Andreesen's vision of web-enabled applications making the OS irrelevant has become a reality
I somewhat disagree. What is missing from browsers is a true GUI protocol. HTML+DOM+JavaScript is a tangled mess. HTML forms are usually fine for lite B-to-C, but B-to-B really want GUI's so that VB/PowerBuilder/Delphi-type custom biz apps can run GUI's through HTTP.
Contenders include the likes of XWT, XUL, and SCGUI, which use various levels of medium-to-thin client approaches (I hope I got those acronyms right).
When something like these finally gets accepted and perfected, then GUI browsers will be able to kill a lot more OS-specific stuff.
Table-ized A.I.
My parents put $1500 into this Dell. Only $70 was mine (to upgrade to a GeForce4 Ti4200). Simply put, I can't put linux on it because I don't own it.
I'm a musician. I manipulate samples. My favorite tool is CoolEdit Pro [syntrillium.com], but Sound Forge [sonicfoundry.com]is pretty popular, too.
These are Windows-only tools. There is a project to develop a distro for musicians (DeMuDi [demudi.org]), but the best Linux can do is Audacity [audacity.sourceforge.net], which is kind of like My Audio Editor by Fisher Price.
Until there are serious OSS audio engineering tools, I'm fucked.
There is an implicit premise that one should be running only one OS. I don't agree.
At home, I have:
- a PC running Windows 2000 (Photo, games)
- an iMac G4 running OS X (video, MP3, casual surfing)
- a PC running Solaris/x86 (home server)
- an iPaq handheld running Linux (toy)
Any geek worth his salt should be reasonably at ease (not necessarily wizard-level) with the major platforms. Anything else is blinkered.
My Linux experience ranged from cumbersome, to frustrating, to impossible. And I was no unix n00b either - I'd been using IRIX at work for 2 years.
I gave Red Hat 7 a try later, and while the work that's been done with Gnome/GTK impressed me, it still didn't convert me.
The world expects me to use Windows, IE, Word, etc., anyway. Why should I cripple my PC just for idealism and geekery's sake?
First, being ashamed of doing VB is silly, don't sweat it, and don't pay attention to idiots who tell you otherwise. I've used VB since it was just 'B' and spent most of my career doing hard-core MS-centric projects and getting paid handsomely for it, thank you. During that decade long period I have:
That being said, I was finally able to get off the Windows treadmill by adopting Java. I now use Mac OS X exclusively at home.
Java GUIs have a bad rep for being slow, but alot of that is changing, and rapidly. Check out Eclipse and the SWT project. I would easily use even Swing for what you've described. Add in a killer IDE like Borland JBuilder and you have the same things you enjoyed in VB only now its on Windows, Linux, and OS X.
As for compiling, what exactly are you doing? Java now ships with JIT compilers that convert bytecode to native code on-the-fly. Of course you have little control over this process, so it's still not as optimal as hand-optimized C, but hey, what is.
For me, Java has now completely replaced VB, and with a far better, more flexible language to boot. I am completely free of MS constraints as well and the bonanza of open-source Java projects out there just makes the geek in me weep with joy. VB has been good to me, but it just can't compete.
"That naive cube! How long must I suffer this!" --Sheldon J. Plankton
porn is keping me on windows.
This guy needs PornView!
well, two really, why I still keep a Windows partition.
One: I have a Umax 610P parallel port scanner for which there is no SANE backend, and I don't use the thing often enough to justify replacing it at this stage;
Two: I have a Texas Instruments TI-89 calculator, and the TI software for windows is all that seems to handle OS and Flash software upgrades sweetly. Tilp is fine for anything else on Linux.
However, I don't think I've fired up Windows for ~3 months, and I certainly don't miss it...
ive tried 3 different linux distros (mandrake 8.2, redhat 7.3, and redhat 8.0) not a one of them has supported my sound card. ive tried compiling the alsa as well as several other methods and such that ive read on different websites but to no avail. considering the amount of music work i do i cant afford to go without sound. also are there any linux equivalents of fruity loops and cakewalk? (yea i know stfw). not too mention i only have two resolution options, a geforce4 ti4200 with only 2 resolution choices? no thanks. id also have to say the other reason is the lack of games support (you could almost replace the word mac with linux in that mac gaming switch parody). as an undergrad cs major ill come back to linux in a few years when its matured (maybe my sound card might work by then).
I run XP because of the games, and other stuff that's pretty much windows only.
But I didn't and will NOT pay for the operating system.
If I don't get a choice, and I have to buy this OS so I can use these certain programs, forget it.
and yes, I'm being an anonymous coward because I fear reprisal from that company.
I've been running XP for the past 6 months on my laptop, as it supports pretty much every design package I could possibly need, and if not there's a very close substitute. I've been running it now for about a month without rebooting, only going into standby during the night, and using it virtually solidly from 9am to 10pm, and it hasn't crashed once. When the odd app does crash (and I must be the only user in the Northern Hemesphere for whom CorelDraw *hasn't* crashed at least once a day), protected memory spaces keep everything running nice and smoothly. Last month I installed Mandrake (whatever the latest build is - I forget), and it took me 2 days to get the X server running, another 24 hours to get Apache Tomcat up, and then every time someone accessed the server pages, Tomcat crashed, taking any running X servers with it, and for some odd reason restarting the machine. I installed Win2k, Apache and Tomcat on my server in 35 minutes, configured them and left it running, and uptime's now going on 3 months with no problems. I understand that ISPs use Linux machines for stability, speed etc. on a large scale, but those are my reasons.
sig:- (wit >= sarcasm)
I too did time in a dotcom and now I'm a sysadmin in a small building company. I am a big Mac OSX fan, but although I would have loved to have bought a new PowerBook but although I managed to push one Linux server through for our CMS, but apart from that and our Novell file servers (thank God for NDS and NDPS. They prove that there are some really good alternatives to Windows server side) we are a complete Windows shop. I have a Dell Laptop with XP Pro and on the whole (apart from the ridiculously high native LCD resolution) I am very happy with it. Every single application runs on it. The Office stuff, the Novell admin stuff, the whole trip. This is why I use Windows.
But I miss Mac OSX a lot with it's cool mix of simple, well designed, good looking GUI and Unix core with a Terminal and shell a click away. My next laptop will agian be a Mac. I don't hate Windows, but Mac OSX is more fun and less pain.
Its all about the games.
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
I am running a dual boot system at home. Win xp and Red Hat 7.2. I use Windows less each month. More for games than anything else. I have switched my finances to GNU Cash and like it better than Quicken. Now if someone will develop a Linux version of Turbo Tax I'll never have another piece of important info on Windows. I use Koffice now and in Win xp use Lotus Smartsuite, never owned or used MS office.
I do have one of Loki's Quake 3s on linux and love it. Is anyone porting Medal of Honor?
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
I'm perfectly happy running Apache, PHP and MySQL on Windows XP. I can develop, play games, use Adobe Photoshop, etc.
For me there's really no reason to run Linux since all I need from "Linux land" already works with Windows.
Netscape isn't stable
Do you mean "Netscape isn't stable" or just "Netscape 4 isn't stable"? If the former, are there specific problems you've had with Netscape 7?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I'm not sure what I am doing that others fail to do, I work for an IT company with thousands of access and hosting customers, we run a lot of windows servers and I have to say I can't remember the last time I restarted one of them for a reason other than installing a service pack. As for workstation stability, my Beta of .NET is onto 2 months of uptime now and I play games like Doom III constantly and it's a beta. Just wondering what I'm doing differently than everyone else.
I want my PC to work and to work well. I want security to be good without constant security updates and REBOOTS most of all...and I want to be able to run as many apps as I can without noticing a slowdown. Windows cannot do that for me. Even XP...the moment you even try to open PhotoShop things start slowing down. I hate the file system getting fragmented and constant defrags...need something better...What I need is a more EFFICIENT operating system...hence I switched to Linux.
:) ) and use that for the cool games till the market for linux games opens up enough so that developers release new games with Linux versions.
I'm now running Linux as the main OS. I do miss the great 3d Games on Windows, but I figure I'll just get me a PS2 or a GameCube (not an XBox
Hell, I don't even feel like playing games that much anymore...there's so much great stuff to learn in Linux...so much to customize...I'm like a kid in a tub of toys. I love the speed and stability of Linux and the fact that it is already more secure than Windows by default. So my major concerns are taken care of...but I can now run more applications simultaneously...the CPU usage is distributed more evenly....I can chop and change anything I like...most of the software I need comes pre-installed...I HAVE BEAUTIFIED THE LINUX DESKTOP TO MAKE IT EASIER ON THE EYE - very important that....and now, in my opinion, it looks, runs and FEELS better than Xp did, albeit after days of tweaking. So I love it.
So right now, as a former Windows power user, this is what I feel Linux is missing:
1) Great 3d Games
2) A Universal Partition tool that's the equivalent of something like Partition Magic.
3) Improvements in the menu structure and GUI - a user shouldn't have to hack for hours or days. it would be better if it looked great out of the box.
And since we're talking beautification, kudos to RedHat 8.0 - it's a step in the right direction.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
... because I believe in the principles of GNU. As a beginning CS student, I firmly believe that without FREE open standards the internet will never reach it's full potential. There is potential for a pervasive, interractive, responsive, wireless data and service network. The damage that buggy software providers like M$ does to the integrity of the internet is widespread. The more sloppy patches to legacy software we have, the more often those pesky "leaky abstractions" pop-up, thereby reducing available computer resources worldwide, and adding to the already enormous problem of cross-device compatibility. ... however... it's installer SUCKS!!! It should be priority 1 of the GNU team to make an installer that will seamlessly migrate a windows system to a dual boot linux/windows system. I can't afford the downtime, or the incompatibilities (lots of college required software is Win only) I would have to face changing my whole system to Linux all at once. Also, I don't really understand HOW to set up dual boot manually.
So that's my reason. I actually have debian installed, however I haven't done anything with it, because I still haven't been able to figure out how to boot to it.
If anyone has good advice or links on how to get Win XP & Debian going at the same time, please contact me!
-peace.
So I know that Quake and several others are Linux based too, but ever since Loki died there hasn't been too much hope. *All* of the good PC games are only released for the Windows and Mac communities.
I'm a game freak... that's why I still have Windows. Plain & simple.
"In mathematics, it's not enough to read the words -- you have to hear the music"
There is nothing more frustrating than trying to get all of the fonts in X to look as readable as the way they are on Windows - particularly when it comes to web browsing. I've actually seen Linux devotees fire up web pages under lynx when the *NIX version of Mozilla renders fonts to mere dotty ant-like blocks.
I won't even get in to font management.....
have you tried gimp print
I'm a computer engineering major. My main web browsing machine runs Windows, and my server runs FreeBSD without keyboard or monitor. Inevitably, I have at least one class for which there is a development enviornment for an FPGA or microprocessor, or a simulator that only has a Windows version. I don't have the time to research unix equivalents each semester, and running such non-standard apps under a Windows emulator seems risky. It's simply not worth installing a machine emulator and running Windows inside Unix just to achieve underlying OS homogenity.
For the record, my mail, IM, and web development occurs on the FreeBSD machine. I know alot of people running Windows on their laptops for school, and FreeBSD or debian on everything else. One potential insight into the poll is that, at least with the demographic I'm thinking of, we end up typing on the Windows machine to interact with everything else.
i run linux and bsd at home, but i'm forced to use winblowz at work (and yes i feel tainted because of it...)
i read and post to /. at both places...so i add one to each tally...yes it evens out...but i'm sure there are many out there that *have* to use windows and do most of there surfing from work...after all...if you are running a linux server environment (trasparently), what else do you have to worry about at work beside keeping up with /.???
(yes, i know that server and firewall config can play with os reporting, blah, blah, blah...)
-frozen
I'm not always the brightest pixel in the stream
I love X from a sysadmin perspective, but...
X is too much of a pain in the ass for desktop users. XF86Config files are way over most people's heads. Font configuration is a nightmare, and without some tweaking fonts look like shit in X. To really get Linux on the desktops of Lusers, X has to be replaced by something entirely intended for desktops.
disclaimer: this piece of text may or may not piss you off and will certainly contain misspellings as I am a dyslexic on top of the fact that english is not my native language.
for me theres a few issues that keeps me to windows.. im a long time slackware user.. its been setup and doesnt require much maintenance..
Lets face it.. linux IS primarily a ServerOS.. sure it CAN be used as a desktop but its at least in its present state..not very good at that....
tried like 8 distros including all the "popular" ones..
1. the GUI xFree 86 that everyone uses.. downright suxx.. its poorly acellerated unless u happen to be one of the lucky ones. its missing support for a lot.. its cumbersome and downright ugly.. no windows ISNT beautiful.. but its heaps and bounds above KDE and GNOME and similar.. besides theres more complete skinning tools for windows..
2.Linux is FIDDLY.. i mean sure NOW u can do a lot of stuff using a GUI for it but theres still a LOT to be done thats just too fiddly for someone like me who prefers to USE the os rather than spend time recompilin kernels and stuff.
And dont try and tell me cos i use Slack and not RedHat.. RH can be just as fiddly to deal with.
As long as u have to recompile stuff and etc and all the linuxdistros isnt 100% compltely compatible with eachother.. i mean most soft for one CAN be made to work in anotehr but often requires.. fiddling.. and lots of it too sometimes...
3.lack of software... i mean sure theres a lot of software for linux.. but theres not a lot of the HIGHEND one.. its started to drip.. but until i can like write my OWN.. theres just not enough and not the few ones that i do need..like photoshop.. yayaya i know.. ive tried GIMP.. but it just doesnt cut it.. doesnt even come remotely close.. and then theres ofcourse.. the games..
4. the linux community.. i fucking hate the linux community... its gotten better the past 2 years especially but theres still to many of the RTFM and PISS OFF and +ban on IRC for xample..people.. theres a lot of linuxians with a really faggot arse attitude and that makes me hate linux cos I have to "deal" with ppl like that..
5.Finding out how to do stuff on linux is a bigger problem than windows.. look around internet for help on windows.. theres tons..ask on IRC.. theres tons..and u get it all in teaspoon size steps..
Try to find help on linux.. and u run into the same problem as you do with the built in documentation.. look on the internet. theres LOADS.. but like the documentation its not exactly written in a easy way to understand a lot of the time unless your already a hard-core linuxian geek and neither is whatever help you find online.. and if u go on IRC theres those RTFM and PISS OFF and +ban people again I do my best to avoid..
I guess in the end.. its the ppl with attitude that bugs me the most.. those that put you down because you use windows, like your some lower form of intelligence.. -(that is btw the actual definition of rasism, not that people have a diffrent skin color but that they are thought of as inferior beings due to some diffrent between them and "you" like being black.. or blond girl.. or a windows user)- that refuses to see and even CONSIDER thinking that Linux may not be the best in all and every situation... that tell you to RTFM just because you ask them something THEY may know very well. but you may not.. now i KNOW linux quite well, I dont need those people anymore so thats fine for me, but i constantly keep running into people who have tried or is trying to get to grips with linux, who isnt used to a commandline interface and doesnt neccesarily understand how a command with arguments work (no it ISNT that easy for all to understand a helpline that says "command filename.prfx -d/R/s/w/t/g [R/E/W/Q/P/J] -out outputfilename.prfx" or similar and is having to deal with those people again and it just makes me angry..
ixxo..
I won't give up Windows until there's a decent amount of games I can live with for Linux.
Want games on Linux? Buy a Game Boy Advance system, an "MBV2" link cable from Lik Sang, and some GBA games. Then dump the games to your computer with mb -w 300 -1 game.gba, and run them in VisualBoyAdvance (which, incidentally, just went GPL).
Will I retire or break 10K?
I have been using linux for many, many years, linux is far supierior to windows in every way....but other companies support windows...other companies write software for windows... sure i use linux for programing and browsing and most general purposes.. but when it comes to music production, there is no decent equivilant to reason software, or cubase, or ...*the list goes on and on*
also there is a defenite lack of games on linux although this is improving...
the last thing is the lack of device support...(actually its incredibly impressive, considering most companies arenot writing the drivers themselves)...also how cool is it to have your os automatically detect and use the correct drivers without even promting the user(or making you reboot...) very cool i must say...
over and out
If there were as many games for Linux as Windows, I would happily throw all my M$ software away forever.
That's why there's emulation.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I use Windows 3.11 due to the fact that it is fast and easy to use. I have many applications that work for it as well as video games. I don't even remember the last time it crashed, and even then it was my fault. I read that MS is going to release a new OS called "Windows 95." I may try it out, but I'd have to upgrade from my 486 SX, 4MB ram, 1x cdrom drive.
I have to suffer 2 losedows boxes in order to keep editing audio for my dayjob because one or other useless pansy fashionmarketingloserOS box crashes on me. 2 diff procs, 2 diff chipsets, one crap OS. I need VST and Cool Edit Pro. Try Rosegarden (http://www.bownie.com/rosegarden/)[VST-alike] or Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/)[CEP-alike] on LINUX. I am in transition to an all-OSS home studio, converting my commercial studio soon, and looking forward to going home more often.
Lucius Sour
Holy shit, cries of outrage rise from the populace like the smell of mold from a locker room. There ARE reasons, but I'm talking about what the OS can do for me. I run Windows XP Pro with Service Pack 1, and all the updates. I use a combination of cygwin and X-Win32 to provide myself a fairly capable POSIX/X/Unixish environment.
Now I do use Linux for my network gateway, which is an athlon 700 (hey, they were cheap as hell) with 128mb SDRAM and a 9gb LVD disk (had it lying around). This runs gentoo, and iptables is the greatest thing ever, as long as you have a tool to configure it. Doing iptables at the command line is unbearably tedious. It has a shitload of options, though, so pretty much anything you want to do in the way of routing or firewalling is supported.
But look at what I can do on windows without crashing the system (often) :) or completely bogging down; I have a tabbed browser embedding IE (CrazyBrowser), I frequently run vmware, I have photoshop, pagemaker, lightwave 3d... Often many of them at the same time. I have three xterms open. I'm running Kazaa Lite nonstop. Sometimes I do all of that (well not photoshop, pagemaker, and lightwave) plus rip/encode a SVCD from DVD, and play Unreal Tournament. Anyone who says that Windows XP is a joke OS is just wrong, it's real. Get over it.
Now let's run down the line of things that it's nice to have on a desktop box that XP has that make it real; SMP, Journaling Filesystem, a flexible Volume Manager, Security including ACLs... It also comes with a bunch of crap that you expect to find on a linux box, like a web server (though I use Apache on Win32 with mod_php, not IIS with some ISAPI crap... I stay away from IIS but that's a whole other story) and a ntp client and so on. It really doesn't suck so very much, it's gotten much faster, it has really slick font antialiasing which works everywhere and antialiases based on font hints like it should. Now the only problem is that windows is not free as in beer or as in speech...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
MYSQL IS NOWHERE NEAR THE LEVEL OF ANY COMMERCIAL DATABASE SERVERS. Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
Is PostgreSQL better or worse?
Will I retire or break 10K?
First, I would like to say that I do not like Macs much to begin with, although the OS is fine in its own right it is not really an option I want to look into. Second, the main programs I was referring to as "file sharing" are "WinMX" and "Winny" which I use because of the Japanese user base. Both are only for Windows (As the names suggest). And Third, directed at idou more specifically, is that with Win2k and Windows XP you can switch the language with a simple reboot so you do not need multiple OS's anymore.
I use Windows at home just to take a break from UNIX at work.
At work I do microprocessor development on a $10K RS/6000 workstation (dual Power3 processors, 8GB of RAM) running AIX. So I spend most of my time in X doing design work (I go for the minimalistic FVWM2 for most of my work) and doing shell commands. For email, web, etc. I have a T21 Thinkpad running Win2K.
When I get home though, I just want to cruise the web, check my email, and fart around with some games. I don't want shell prompts or hassles like at work, I just want a simple Windows XP system to mess around with for an hour or 2 after work. Hell, after 8-12 hours in front of X, I just need a break (and a few system crashes every so often to remidn me I'm not at work). That being said though, I make sure to have Cygwin installed on my home PC and work laptop in case I need to get anything done, to makes things somewhat UNIX-ish.
I've screwed around with Linux at home, but I just felt it wasn't worth the hassle of installing, and plus it made me feel like I was back at work again.
I don't know, maybe I'll hit the middle road and settle down on a Mac one of these days though...
The abundancy of Linux-compliant software for composing, as well as software for multitrack harddisk recording and signal processing, is my reason for sticking with Windows. I think it would be pretty great if that kind of software was available for Linux, considering the stability and performance I expect could be gained. But untill then, Windows is my choice of OS.
Hi everybody, I'm a musician. I'm also a Linux enthousiast (RHCE, [insert MCSE joke here]). While Linux is indeed a great operating system with a lot of potential, it's just not up to par on the multimedia side of things.
In graphics or music, it's just playing catch-up with Windows and Apple. Simple as that. Of course there are ways to do both in Linux (mostly for graphics) but I can't imagine even attempting anything seriously musical in Linux.
Music making is (should be?) real time computing. I'm not talking about sampler programming, I'm talking about the real deal with real instruments and stuff. You need real time for that and the linux kernel is not built in a real time friendly way. Of course there is the kernel patch to fix that but it's not a factory way of doing stuff in OSS.
Professional music making software is quite expensive because it's not really a wide market. It's expensive 'cause it costs a lot to produce and support (and the demand is there too...). The price of the OS it runs on is not really an issue compared to the price of the noisy (hehe)software and equipment...although it WOULD have been nice to shell out for more music gear instead of a windows license but..oh well.
That's it.
Oh yeah, it's nice to play games at the end of a late night, drunken recording session.
And another thing, I need a drummer, in the Montreal area so reply to this message with some way to contact you if interested.
Honestly the reason I'm currently using windows is because of school. Thing programs I need are all based on various versions of windows. Windows does have the most widely spread software and the ease of use. Hopefully this will change. I personally try to run Mandrake Linux as much as possible but there are times when I do have to reboot and go back to WinXP. Hopefully other, cheaper operating systems will run MS out of business. Its just a matter of getting a stronger user and programmer base. A lot of major businesses are already switching over. If you want a change, start writing programs for Linux or OSX or even the cross-platform QT.
It really sucks to use Dialup networking on Linux because - AFAIK - Microsoft uses a proprietary authentication algorithm which 99% of ISP's use. Finding a Linux friendly ISP can be a bitch.
I'm currently using Windows XP with a license from my university, which means I have to pay 22 euro's for a legal version with CD. The same is valid for Office. So money is not really a reason for me to stop using it.
;)).
Besides that I find Windows easier to install and easier to use. Yes, I've used several linux distro's on the same computer but there's always something wrong after the install. (suse, redhat, mandrake). The computer is two years old and has only class A hardware so it should all work properly, but it doesn't. Besides that installing a program on Windows is so much easier, at least I think it is (you might of course feel different
You might think I'm pro-microsoft now, but I'm not really. I'm on several linux irc-channels and of course an always-on-topic-topic is the question why I'm using windows and 'what the heck are you doing in this channel if you do, because windows sucks'. Then of course some kind of debate starts in which I try to convince them Windows it's not that bad and of course all operating systems have their advantages and disadvantages.
The main arguments people come up with why windows is bad are:
-money
-security
-stability
The first one is easy, because of course you have to pay for Windows (duh), but I consider 22 euro's not that much and if I had to pay more, I would get it from a warez-site or whatever. I know it's not legal, but do you think Microsoft is knocking on my door if I do?
Neither do I...
Security is of course a bit of a problem, but I run a kinda secure gateway, so the security problem is only an ethernet related for me. Of course there are bugs, but with a proper firewall up, there's no need to worry about security.
Stability has always been a problem for me, well always... I used to run Windows 98 which came with my first pc when I bought it. I'm used to leave my computer running all the time, so after 4 weeks you had to reboot, because of all the memory leaks, etc, of course only _if_ you managed to reach 4 weeks... After a few reinstallations and even a lot more crashes windows 2000 was there. It ran 100 times more stable then 98 did so this was a must for me. Around the same time I got myself familiar with the phenomenon 'linux', so I downloaded copies of suse, redhat and mandrake and installed it dualbooting with windows 2000. It ran quite stable, but at that time I was used to the userfrienlyness of windows, which is currently way better then it was then (in Linux I mean).
At the moment I'm running Windows XP and it's perfectly stable. No crashes (only a few program crashes, but no bsod's) and it's still as fast as it was after the last reboot. I just checked my uptime and it's 6 weeks and 1 day and I really use my computer intensively. Even after installing all kinds of upgrades and crappy programs it's still stable and fast.
Well, why I never swithed to linux is because windows works fine for me now. Due to problems in the past with installing linux I never had the motivation (and time) of swithing to linux. Currently my server runs bsd and I'm also quite happy with that.
Everything works for me as it should, so why should I change then? Because of the crap Microsoft puts on my machine? Do I care if they know what hardware windows runs on? not really, maybe you do but I don't. Because of the uber-skinnable features in linux? not really, I'm currently very happy with my flashy blue-green windows with a black background.
It's not that I don't like Linux, it's more like I have no reason to switch. There are small advantages, but if I start using linux as main-os there are also small things why I want to switch back. Besides that I don't have the time to do it or at least I want to spend my time on other things.
Of course this is only my point of view and if you think different about it, that's fine with me. There's not one best solution to a 'problem', there are more, it's just what you think is important that matters.
The only thing I don't like is when people try to convince me to run linux, because it's so cool and because windows and bill gates are evil. yeah sure, whatever, I couldn't really care less.
sig(h)
I have a small windows 2k partion for the games and by bank account software that don't run under linux. ;)
hardly any decent games are on unix (it aint got a sophisticated API like DirectX), there aren't any decent mp3/ogg players, I don't like any of the irc clients available, I can't msn instant message my friends on there (or I could if I wanted to go down to the level of Gaim -- but c'mon!) there aren't any decent and sophisticated graphics packages all of the _free_ desktops are crap (IMHO), blatant rip offs with too much bloat and unusefullness (again IMHO) features like virtual windows.
I just feel like the people who are behind the helm of these projects just have no idea at all when it comes to design and or functionality.
I know everybody *hates* VB, and sneers at the people who use it (the more thoughtful amongst the slashcrowd sneer at people who use *only* VB, but whatever).
;)
I have never, ever understood this. When I graduated from college, I was still twitching and gibbering from writing Motif apps for assignments. The real reason Unix people prefer command-line tools is that Motif apps are just not worth it to develop.
Then I spent a little time writing Windows apps against the good ol' C api. That sucked too. Remember those massive switch statements in your event handler?
Then they came out with VB 1.0. It was jaw-droppingly awesome. Don't any of you remember, ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS DRAW YOUR @#$(*&(@*#& WINDOWS AND THE APP WAS THERE. Double-click on a button, and open an editor to write its callback function.
And you know what, it's still true! Sure, if you're writing a device driver it's not going to help much. Sure, sure, obey Joel's law and call out to C where appropriate, but if you need a good solid UI for your program, why the heck not?
People complain about how any moron can slap together a crappy VB program that kind of works. Isn't that kind of the point? Wouldn't Linux, or *BSD, or (ahem) GEOS have benefitted hugely from VB or something like it?
Does it? I haven't used anything else seriously for a while, but at the last count, Visual Studio's debugger was comfortably ahead of the opposition on useful features. Granted that in their quest to .NETify everything they've stuffed up a couple of the basics for vanilla C++ programmers like me, but still, the little things make all the difference. For example, in the VS debugger, you have the AUTOEXP.DAT file to customise how variables of user-defined types are displayed. Does the Kylix debugger have such things these days?
(This is a serious question, not a troll. I've always quite liked Borland's dev apps, but haven't used C++ Builder seriously for a good 3-4 years now, whereas I've had the latest and greatest(?) Visual Studio at work all the time. I'd like to know if Borland really have caught up.)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I hope the app/os integration never makes into *nix. It should not be possible to crash the OS simply by crashing an integrated app (which alas, seems all to common on Win: if I crash IE on windows, there's ~50% chance my entire system will go down. If I crash Mozilla on Unix, there's a 100% chance I'll have to restart Mozilla, but that's it).
The reason why I find myself using Windows more that Linux is that Windows is easier to use. I've been trying to switch over to Linux, but everything is so hard to set up. I'm running Gentoo Linux on my laptop which I'm pretty happy with, but I simply can't do the same things on it that I can do in Windows. I can't even get Java to work on Linux. I use Mozilla to browse the web, and when I go to a site that requires Java, it prompts me to install a plugin. First time I tried to install it, it downloaded everything but then failed because I didn't have root access. So I log in as root and do the whole process again. It says the plugin was installed successfully, it appears as if the files are there, but IT SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK. Everytime I go to a site that uses Java, it still prompts me to install the plugin and doesn't work. And what about Quicktime support? It takes hours to set something up that takes minutes on Windows.
Also, on my desktop, I use a wireless usb device to connect to the local network in my house. The drivers for this device under Linux are horrible, and then won't even run on my system at all because I'm using an SMP kernel. I really want to use Linux, but why should I use an inferior product?
I use Windows 2000 Pro on my Athlon XP home computer. I use Windows 98SE and XP Pro on school desktops and Mac OS 8/9/OS X on our production boxes in the school newspaper office. Why do I stick with Windows? It works. All the applications I need to work with (Office, IE, Paint Shop Pro, WinAmp, etc.) are designed for Windows. Now, mind you, I'm not saying that I don't like Linux or the open source systems. In fact, my firewall runs a real hardware modem and FreeSCO. I don't trust Windows connecting my network to the Internet. I don't trust that it could adequately protect my home network. I do, however, trust NT Server to run my P166 file server in lieu of not being able to find a copy of Netware instead. Guess what? It does a perfect job. It's easy to use and I can set it up and leave it alone. The whole point being: Linux is excellent for Internet servers (web, ftp, nfs, mail, mysql, etc.) and routers/firewalls/gateways because its security is top-notch and you know what you're getting vs. Microsoft, Apple, and company. However, on the desktop and the file server, the commercial products I find to be perfectly fine.
I use linux. there is not a single windows box in my possesion. My laptop is 100% linux, and all the hardware works (even the modem(and for those that are curious, its a Sony Vaio FX215)) The reason i don't use windows is i don't like the os. I don't like the look, i don't like the feel.i don't like the idea of a corperation, with shareholders to please controlling MY computer. I do play games, I just accept the little bit of a lower fps just so i wouldn't have to dual boot or any of that non-sence. WindowsXP was the last straw that fianlly made me decide go go 100% linux. I also find linux easier to develop with, as all my compiles and editors are installed by default. I heart linux.
Please explain your "serious" video editing thats done under linux. I didn't mention editing I said encoding and capturing. For editing I'd use Premiere or Ulead. FX houses may use linux but they write custom apps and mainly use it for render farms.
Most important: Photoshop.
I asked several Adobe people at the last Siggraph, and they told me that they would not port to Linux until more people are using it on the desktop.
Chicken & egg problem again...
The other things that keeps me from switching completely are Adobe Premiere, Dreamweaver, Flash, Lightwave, and Sound Forge. There is nothing so far that can replace any one of those apps. I haven't looked very far for an audio editor, but I know that video editing on Linux is a joke. And yes, I am aware of the many ways of creating web sites, but nothing I've seen comes close to the power of Dreamweaver.
At least my most often used apps, Maya and Shake, are already there.
I use windows because I can get it for free under the license my university has with MSDN Academic Alliance.
Don't get me wrong, I like Linux and AIX and I can testify that Windows is buggy as hell and tends to crash (no one ever said MS made good software, they just make popular software).
But why is bragging about uptime so common? Yes, the RS/6000 in my office hasn't been rebooted in 3 months so far (and that was due to a power outage on our site). But at home, I only turn on my PC for a few hours during the day after work.
Why is bragging about uptime such a big issue? Why bother leaving yoru system on when you're not around just so you can brag about it?
Alright, so maybe Windows isn't the most stable operating system in the world. But, after too many years of using a Microsoft operating system of one form or another, I know how to fix 95% of the problems that come up.
And while it's not exactly MacOS, things have a tendancy to work on Windows. Half the times I've tried Linux I found myself sifting through half a dozen HOWTOs when all I want to do is set up a freakin' dial-up internet account. Which pretty much won't work anyway because almost nobody uses modems with on-board controllers any more.
As I saw someone else mention one time, I need an operating system, not a hobby. Mandrake is nice and all, but setting up my hardware still requires a lot more than just sticking in the driver CD and installing it. I'm not going to bug the one or two friends I have who know Linux because I know how annoyed I get when people expect me to fix their Windows problems for them ("Fdisk, format, reinstall and leave me the Q@$#^ alone!"). And I can't be bothered to try to learn how to write my own drivers when all I want to do is play Warcraft III, advocacy be damned.
So I can convert to a Mac for $999? How much does it cost me to not convert to a Mac? $0.
'nuff said.
I use Debian for all of my coding for school and stuff, but my SBLive card isn't supported yet in the driver.
Once the sound works (or I give in and just buy analog speakers) I'll be linux 24/7
Two reasons.
1. MUCH better printing with my HP printer. So far, the best Linux (and HP Linux, Turboprint, etc) has to offer is about 600 x 600.Digital photos look like crap at that resolution.
2. Flight Simulator. Need I say more? I'm hooked. As soon as I figure out how to make Linux recognize my joystick, I will try out that open source flight simulator.
Maybe someday I can cut the cord and claim the other half of my hard drive back from M$.
David
This is exactly the problem: you think it's impressive that most Linux distros have now reached the point of overcoming a problem that Windows never even had.
While I understand your perspective as someone who presumably likes Linux, a quick look down this thread shows how willing Linux enthusiasts are to overlook things that would put most potential converts off in a heartbeat:
Do pro-Linux people see the common thread here? Linux is mostly good at doing most of what Windows can do within a few months of being able to do it on Windows, with mostly compatible results. To a hobbyist geek, like many of us, that might be good enough, and we're prepared to put up with some modest inconvenience in exchange for the benefits you get from using Linux. However, to most Windows, users, it just ain't good enough.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
The GUI. It does not crash as often as X, nor does it feel like everything is a swing app.
[alk]
Yeah, we've seen all those zillions of, umm, "applications" that come on the Linux CDs....
(LMAO)
ACCOUNTING!
Until there is a drop in replacement for the likes of Quickbooks or Simply Accounting for small and medium sized businesses, you will never, I repeat, never penetrate that huge market.
I managed to get my business moved to Macs, but come January, I'm hooped due to Accountedge for the Mac getting killed in Canada by Intuit.
There was no Linux alternative.
~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.
I speak as someone with a great deal of experience in all three major operating environments, working in a highly technical environment, and with a highly technical circle of friends. In my experience, people who know better still use Windows for three reasons.
The first is entrenchment, and I don't have anything to say about it that hasn't already been said here.
The second is the availability of games and applications, but both alternative platforms are now far enough along in both realms for this to be much less of a problem than it was even a couple of years ago.
The third reason, and the one I want to talk about is that they don't see an escape. Let's look at the two alternatives.
The Macintosh is not yet taken seriously as a platform. If you've allowed general hacker/power-user/FOSS culture to permeate you at all, then you probably look at a Mac and the first thing you think is "oh, the computer for people who have no idea what they're doing." I still have flashes of that, and I actually use Macintoshes as my personal computers. Until recently, Apple's inability to market on any sort of technical platform has been nearly supernatural, and they're still not exactly brilliant at it.
This is in the process of changing, and changing heavily. MacOS X is quite possibly the most effective desktop operating system ever created (save for Be, and don't get me started on Be's untimely death) for its balance of technological capability and intuitive usability. It is simply too capable to ignore now. There has always been a subgroup of the Clued who liked Macintoshes simply because they didn't like to fight computers; now this subgroup is growing fast due to technical merit.
This shift will take time, however; also, it isn't optimal from the FOSS point of view. It certainly isn't a worst-case scenario, mind--given Darwin, MacOS X is far more free/open than anything in the Macintosh world has ever been, and certainly far more free/open than Windows. Further, Apple at least doesn't seem to believe that every Turing-complete device should have to get a seal of approval from Hollywood. But all that said, MacOS X is far from being FOSS, and some people believe (and make a non-trivial argument) that the good is the enemy of the perfect in this arena.
So why not Linux?
Story time.
We run a split lab--three Windows boxes, three Linux boxes, and any faculty member or student can log into any of them. Our IT department expends some nontrivial effort to make sure that all major platforms are able to access most major services--mail, the file shares, even directory services.
Last week, I was installing a couple of Red Hat 8.0 boxes on our network. Since I don't enjoy putting large Hack right HERE! signs out on the Internet, the first thing I did was to run the GNOME-based Red Hat update agent.
(Let's take care of something before it gets said. I'm perfectly capable of running the command-line based update agent. Further, I'm also perfectly capable of ftp'ing the updates and installing them myself. I've compiled enough kernels that Red Hat's kernel update process doesn't scare me one bit. Capability isn't the point.)
So halfway through the update, the program crashed. I kill -9'd the program and ran it again; it refused to come up. I logged out, logged back in and ran it again; it still refused to come up. Defenestrated, logged in and ran it again; no joy.
I ended up restarting a Linux box (reread that a time or two) to get GNOME, and the update agent, working properly again. (I still ran the updates from the command line, not willing to trust the agent with my time again.) I'm sure that with a bit of head-beating I could have found the leftover processes and killed them instead of rebooting, but that isn't the point. There aren't that many people who could have, and there aren't that many people who would be willing to put up with this.
Linux, as an operating system kernel (and hence as a server of any kind), is far more stable than Windows. The critical triumverate of X, KDE and GNOME, unfortunately, are still significantly less stable and consistent, and hence less usable, than the Win32 GDI. Hence, Linux as a personal desktop OS requires that you not only have the ability to understand your computer thoroughly, but that you have the time and will to fight to get it working and keep it working.
So, to sum it up: people still use Windows because they don't take the Mac seriously and/or don't believe it's open enough to be worth the move; and because Linux still, sadly, just isn't ready unless you have the time to make it a significant hobby in and of itself.
Once again, just my $0.02.
Matt
It does bug me that M$ has so much money and power. However, I've grown kind of numb to the arguments. I use WinXP Pro and MacOS X 10.1.5 mostly. I really like FreeBSD, but much of what I need to do is accomplished much faster and easier under WinXP Pro or Mac OS X. I know some tend to do it for the kewlness factor, as though the tougher the OS is to manuever and the more coding you have to do to make it work for you, the better you are, or some such thing. But I already know C, C++, x86 assembler, 6812 assembler, pascal (and Delphi), javascript, perl, mysql statements well enough to do almost anything I need for my computer engineering classes, for dynamic webpages, or whatever else. I don't see any reason for me to beat my chest and show how good I am. After installing about 6 OSes (and numerous versions and variations of some of those OSes) perhaps 50 times over the years, I don't care to show off. I just want the computer to do what I need when I need it to. So I suppose in summary, right tool for the right job...
:)
When I want to play oggs, mpeg2 videos, DVDs, games, code in VC++, Delphi or perl, etc, etc. I can use my machine with WinXP.
When I want to do any of that with a nicer gui and unix underpinnings along with mobility, I use my iBook with OSX.
That's my $0.02, take it for what it's worth
I have 4 machines at home:
AMD XP 1800 with 512mb of ram running Windows XP Professional
Dual PIII 550 with 512mb of RAM running Linux ( currently RedHat 8 )
Dual PPro 200 with 256Mb of RAM running FreeBSD ( will be trying out Debian 3 , box serves as test web server/ cvs server )
G3 350 with 1Gb of RAM running OS 10.1
I use the Windows XP box solely for games. While i am a subscriber for WineX, the 1 game i play the most , Counter-Strike , doesnt support voicecom under WineX.
For all my serious work, ( I do image editing, web site design etc ) I use Linux. Quanta or vi as the editor. I use Gimp for image needs ( Gimp and photoshop both work great for me for my image editing needs ). OpenOffice also works great for what i need to do with it. Ogle plays my DVDs and I use xmms for mp3s and oggs.
In the end it all depends on what apps u need to use and if you are willing to learn a new app. I understand for DTP gimp may not be what photoshop could do but for most of my use Linux is perfect.
dvNuLL
...what keeps me on Windows?
Simple:
(1) I know of no Linux-based WP program that can handle my Curriculum-Vitae ("résumé" for you North-American types). Not only process the file, but _print_ it, too. AbiWord died horribly when I tried it, KWord choked badbly and OpenOffice had all sorts of problems (t'was close, though. But as far as printing.... Ugh). WordPerfect 2000 for Linux could probably deal with my CV (I use tables for formatting, etc.), but printing? I don't think I can get it to print like I want it without a ridiculous amount of pain and ***lost time***. But if Corel were to port its flagship suite to KDE >= 3.1, I could have another go at it. But I don't think the current Corel leadership would even consider updating their OA suite for _current_ KDE (or GNOME), so might as well forget it.
(2) internet plugin handling -- ie. dealing with Quicktime and too many others. Things have gotten better (the flash plugin comes to mind), but still...
(3) No Quicktime for *nix.
(4) RealPlayer is stuck in time (no RealOne, etc.) and does not integrate with the environment like it does under MacOS and Windows. But then, XMMS doesn't really integrate either in the environment.
(5) No RDBMS usable by mere mortals (like 4th Dimension, Paradox or *shudder* M$ Access). OK, Paradox apparently is out there for Linux, but how much support is it getting from Corel? And, no, MySQL or PosgreSQL (sp?) do not count. For those who want to whip up something to manage their own collection of CDs, books, stamps, etc., Linux (or *BSD) is not an option.
(6) No (income) tax software for *nix, like what you can find under Windows or MacOS. Stuff like QuickTax, HomeTax, etc. And let's not forget complementary programs like Quicken et al. I know GNU-Cash exists, but, really, is it up to par? I'm not sure about that.
There are probably other things that I cannot remember right now, but they are there.
I'm not saying Linux (or *BSD) will not eventually be able to replace Win2K as my main everyday desktop environment. A lot of progress has been made in the last 4-5 years, since the first time I tried to switch to *nix as my main desktop. We now have integrated and quite seamless graphical environments (KDE, GNOME) that provide essentially all the basics that are taken for granted in other platforms. So the platform, the environment itself is really no longer the issue, despite a few rough edges here and there. It's more of an application issue, mainly, and minor things that affect the internet/multimedia experience for you and me.
I think most of the remaining shortcomings, if not all, will be dealt with in time. The *nix Desktop is still a work in progress, but it is closer to completion than it was not that long ago. Methinks that in 2 years, max, we could really be able to ditch Windows because the technical/architectural obstacles have been or will soon be eliminated. The only reason why the *nix Desktop might not be able to replace Windows is not technical, but, huh, ah, human.
I'm not just talking simple, stupid inertia or about The Herd Effect ("everyone uses Windows, why should I change?"). I think it's more the problem that too many people who say they run *nix desktops are simply leeches that don't want to pay for anything. And that's a problem, because there are some software categories that we can only expect ISVs to produce because: (a) it's not sexy enough for hackers to spend time & effort developping something for or, (b) there might be patents or something else preventing Joe Schmoe Hacker to create & distribute that whiz-bang piece of software that fill that specific need. The OSS movement has produced a tremendous amount of code, but there are still categories of software that have yet to be explored by the movement -- or have a _credible_ OSS offering for.
Thing is, as long as ISVs perceive Linux users as a bunch of cheap leeches, they simply won't produce those last bits of software that could help Linux or *BSD to take a significant chunk of The Desktop.
I'm not saying we should abdicate the application space to ISVs, but we should accept that we might have to share our space with them. As long as they play nice with the OSS movement, let them in, I say. If they produce what I need, some program or utility that no Open Source project has produced, I won't mind paying for it -- as long as it is reasonnable. If they don't act like M$, produce software for Linux/*BSD that is not half-hearted or half-baked, they'll get my hard-earned cash.
Question is, how many other self-proclained Linux users would do the same and fork money for Linux software produced by an ISV?
Well to be honest, I use 50% windows, 50% linux. I really WANT to use Linux more, but there are just some basic reasons why I need to keep windows on my machine.
.exe file to match a specific build version of windows!) and generally are of a higher quality. I have yet to find ANY decent, truly stable and useable music creation and audio editing software for Linux. Audacity is pityful compared to CoolEdit, and there's nothing even close to FruityLoops.
a) Applications - windows apps are easier to install, don't have major compatibility issues (you never have to download and compile three different shared libraries to get Windows software to run, do you? You don't have to download a specific
2. The construction of the OS makes software installation a pain - this point is touched on above. Yes, I know it's open source, and all that, but if Linux was constructed more intelligently, it should be possible for users to just download a single binary file and run it. There is too much dependancy on tiny little libraries all over the place, and too much dependancy on things like (a) Exact library version (b) C-compiler version (c) Kernel version (d) How the distribuion organises its file locations. You simply don't get ANY of these problems in Windows. Occasionally you'll have to download a newer version of a DLL to get software to work, but when you do, it doesn't break software that relied on the previous version of the DLL.
Why is this happening? I call on Linux developers to start programming for the USERS, not for themselves. Aim to design software that is easy to install, that is configurable from within the program, that relies on only MAJOR libraries, and MAJOR stable version numbers. It is possible, you know. "Big" software releases for Linux (OpenOffice, Mozilla, Opera, many games) just install themselves simply and easily, and work, so why don't the smaller software projects work the same way?
In the end, I use Linux when I just want to quickly boot up, get on the net, have a fiddle around. I boot Windows if I want to use actual specific, important pieces of software for which there is no equivalent available for Linux.
-"I still believe in revolution; I just don't capitalize it anymore." - srini!
Some of us don't have an extra $609 laying around to buy a mac license.
Photoshop Elements (which does everything Photoshop does except prepress and is quite useful for work on web and game graphics, from what I'm told) is only $99.
Will I retire or break 10K?
While there is a WinXP box in my house, it is mainly for the rest of my family. I don't touch the damn thing. I'm always found on my iBook, in the living room of our house, running OS X.2.1
Actually, I am planning on running Yellow Dog Linux once I get around to ordering it, since I can then run Mac OS X and Linux at the same time.
Can you say geek bliss? I knew you could. =)
consequently I'm re-booting all the time.
*sigh*
look man... its simple
I love Macintoshes... but serving of them isn't the way to go...
Linux $ Unix are great for firewalling and routing... but as far as language consistency and backwards compatibility and flat out ease of setup mixed with profitbility and pervasiveness nothing can touch windows.
ASP (read VB) is probably one of the worst languages to program in, but as far as serving goes, its borderline plug and play for me, and the same system i can code on for MOST Clients is the same system i can play games on, check my email on, and use office on....
Unix cant do that, Linux Can (technicaly), but linux is a serious pain in my assetts to maintain all those functions for (no command line switches needed here).... While macs do all my creative and networking needs (with OSX the music/graphics/unix command line merge).... as far as serving ASP and checking my email while writing a Word document, nothing can touch windows 2000 adv srv...
While this may seem to be MicroSofts big fat wallet smacking us around.... i wont lie... ASP pays more, is more common, is much more likely to be the default host for medium size buisness website hostings, and lastly comes with the combiant of being the only Seving platform that can coexist happily with a gazillion games and office (apache is no fun on windows... im not going to get into it... even if it is better, its TOO much maintenence)...
if i had my way, id have ASP on OSX and just abandon everything else MS.... but as much as i hate MS, i wont knock them when they do something well (and lets not forget IE is hands down the best browser out there....)
I write this from a win 2k adv srv machine running on my laptop.... i have a powerbook sitting behind me... and mandrake silently awaiting a dual-boot.
--Idiots, Every single one of YOU, A flaming mass of conglomerated morons, hey wait a second, isnt that how RAID works?
... not wanking off to political ideologies nor aesthetic sensibilities. They produce what people want (like a fast UI).
Photoshop has good support for translation of the different color models and calibration to match colors as precisely as possible. Gimp sucks ass at that.
Photoshop Elements lacks those features as well, and guess what? The reason it's $500 cheaper than Photoshop is precisely the same reason that GIMP doesn't support accurate color space conversion: it's patented, and the patent holders are not willing to license the patents royalty-free.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I wonder what quality you claim to be forsaking...
I'm a big fan of Linux, and of Unix in general, but why exactly do you use an Operating System?
Since I don't have a mainframe in my room serving thousands of users with scarce memory and CPU-time, efficient resource administration is less of a priority than it was for Unix's original goal.
Stability is important, but my workstation doesn't need as many magic 9s as my web server. Booting once per week is really not that bad.
Personally, I run an OS to make my life easier. In other words, the quality I expect from an OS is "requires less effort to do what I want to do".
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
There are numerous reasons keeping me stuck with windows for now, but the main reason is Power Management.
/dev/sd? device each time you plug and remote it
Most Linux Distro's have APM support, but not ACPI. APM on my notebook works only half of the time, the other half I need to reboot. In addition, hybernation does not work at all. I have tried to install ACPI and utilities numerous times in the past, but it was simply not mature.
Other problems are related to the fact that I normally have VERY high-end notebooks with the latest and greatest hardware, which is usually not very well supported under Linux.
- WinModems are problematic, even if a driver exists
- IRdA is not setup by the distro, and does not have any easy to use gui tools.
- Hotswap if IDE devices, for me to remote my DVD/CD-RW with a floppy or other device does not work
- USB storage devices get a new
- No way to activate SVideo-Out on my model ATI videochip.
The 2.5 kernel will hopefull make some things easier/better. Like the improved ACPI and ISA PnP support.
In addition I was REALLY hoping for pcmcia to be integrated into the hotplug system, but I guess we need to wait until the next release.
Now, I work in a pro-linux company, and my job is 100% Linux on servers, but the corporate directive for desktops/notebooks is windows.
Nobody will prevent me from using Linux on my notebook, but the amount of time to get all the windows applications I need to use running is simply to much. And in addition, they don't always run very stable under Wine, so I would need to run vmware (which I have, btw) and use massive resources for it.
I am really hoping that the next release of RedHat/SuSE will have the 2.6/3.0 kernel with ACPI, that will be a good starting point that might finally allow me to migrate.
Give me a good WYSIWYG HTML editor in Linux, that doesn't have Mozilla's bugginess.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
I have a couple of reasons I like to continue to use windows: 1) Games - Most of the games released for the PC today (including macs) are released for Windows. Macs usually get the games next, and then finally Linux. 2) Standardization - Despite what I've been told, Linux is not that easy to use. While I was trying it out (Tried it out for a full month, formated computer, removed Windows copmletely, installed Linux) I usually had to compile each application myself, and it seemed to me that I never had all the libraries needed =P 3) Stabiltiy - Stability was never really an issue for me. When I ran '98 (I run XP now) I averaged about 5~7 hour uptime. While that isn't blowing anyone's mind, it was more than enough for me, as I often didn't use it that long. Just to see how long I could go with XP, I managed to keep it running for seven days before I had to reboot (I installed something) If you ask me, thats probably the biggest problem windows has, its that the slightest thing requires a reboot. While Linux is superior in infrastructure, and is more stable, since I'm not really using my home computer for anything other than surfing the web and playing games, I honestly don't CARE about those things. When it comes down to it, I want to go into a computer store, buy a game/program, insert it into my AutoPlay enabled CD-Rom drive, and just use the program. I used to think that when it came to computers, the harder the better, and I enjoyed the challenge of getting things to work, but once I didn't have so much time on my hands, my opinion on that changed very quickly.
The free systems like Linux are just trying to emulate what can be done on Windows systems. Create a clone of Office, create desktops like Windows, try to play games like you can on Windows, web browsers like IE. They are just copying what already exists on Windows, so why not just use the real thing? I also get a backwards compatible system with Windows. Its obvious that other people are deciding the same thing.
It's apt for porn!
If I knew I would be able to get the video-out on my video card to work on the TV and play MAME, then I'm there in a flash!
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
Err.. basically the difficulty in getting a GUI to run in FreeBSD.. and getting programs to install/run in Winex.
That's about it. I use FreeBSD whenever I can.
The bottom line for me is ease of installation. I don't mind tweaking things once my system is up and running, but I hate having to spend hours upon hours just to get thigns up and running initially. In windows, I have drivers for all my hardware. In linux, I've yet to find drivers for my peice of crap modem. Add to that the fact that I already own photoshop and cool edit pro and I really don't have a compelling reason to switch.
Right there you've hit the nail on the head. My reasons are very simple:
1) Learning curve: it's just too damn steep, and the documentation sucks. While the online support from the community is decent, it's not very helpful if you can't even get on the 'net or figure out how to work the IRC client.
2) Other people: They don't use linux and they don't want to. They also don't have the time for the learning curve.
3) Maintenance Time: Let's face it; running linux means you have to spend a certain (large) amount of time with your computer on a regular basis to ensure that everything stays updated, and to install anything new or cool.
Those are the 3 top reasons that are keeping me from linux, and i'm sure they apply to many other people. No, its not games because I don't play tooo many of them and I do have 2 regular-use boxes, one of which definately has to stay windows for the family.
Just games. I develop them, I play them, I review them. So.. games, pretty much.
/ Per
forget-it, actually Linux is better than windows for porn :
1- the browser can be installed in a separate directory so you don't have to worry about other people messing with your stuff.
2- the quality of DivX on mplayer is better than the free codec offered on windows.
3- mplayer is by far much more faster than windows media player, and it plays any format that he plays
4- by using mozilla, large files will never be copied to another directory, so you can watch it while you download it.
5- unlike media player, you can watch a AVI even if it is not totaly downloaded.
6- there is no such thing as history and you can put your porn on a different filesystem, so your root filesystem will be pornfree(R)
7- you can laught at any windows virus and the spyware in media player.
8- pan, the news reader for Gnome is better than outlook for binaries.
9- using mozilla will block any stupid porn popup sites.
10- my girlfriend doesn't know how it works !!!
After 6-7 years of using Linux starting with Slackware-3.0, I bought a new computer with XP, which seems stable, but no faster than comparable tasks using Linux on my P100, in spite of being 10,000 megahertz slower(so to speak). My secretary wife "needs" Office, oddly it's not found on this machine. I decided I don't really want to break into the IT industry any more than they want me to, so it's just hobby and playtime, I will recommend Linux to anyone, but I really care more about the MS threat to OSS than I do about their software. Also, I'd have to buy or migrate a video card to override the onboard Intel video to run X.
It's all I know how to use. However, I use 98lite, (http://www.litepc.com) so Darth Bill gets none of my money. I have no Redmond originating products on my machine. If I was smarter I would go with a different OS, I may anyway if I can get another computer to learn on so as not to destroy my main machine. I'm thinking seriously about Lindows.
The edge that mac and windows have over linux is uniformity. You know what you are getting... You have an idea of what the application is going to look like. The reason that people dont use macs more is the cost. Macs are perceived to be more expensive and slower... Less bang for your buck. The issue with linux which so many people tout as the strong point is that there are so many desktops competing for users. There are 2 main standards out there, gnome and kde. This is confusing for most people. Redhat noticed that and made them both look the same.
--------- I have no signature
Modplug is Windows-only, I can't get MIDI to work in Linux, and Windows is much better for playing video ;-). Also, I couldn't find a working Ada implementation other than one for Windows.
Actually, I have 2 boxes. One runs Windows, and the other is a server that runs Linux. I can just telnet into the Linux box (using Putty, the only telnet client I've found to be worth anything), so I only need one monitor and kybard.
I edit manuscripts -- text files up to a meg in size -- and I need Word's "Track Changes." OpenOffice has the feature, but with a big file, it can take ten or twenty minutes just to switch between showing and hiding the changes I've made.
OpenOffice is another "almost-there." It handles Word's .doc files just fine, but it just isn't nimble enough to be used as a replacement manuscript-editor.
That and I need Windoze because Linux has no driver for my scanner, yet.I use Linux for everything else; I switched in 1998, but I can't go all the way, yet.
Mac
Yeah, I have thousands of mame roms stored away on my cds :). Plus a load of snes roms and a load of amiga roms.
And then I have ePSXe (the best playstation emulator) to play my psx cdroms.
So all you need it zsnes, xmame, ePSXe and uae and youre sorted :).
First, background.. I've been using linux since the wee versions.. .96 or so, 1992-ish. I was fluent in SunOS well before that. I've been through the whole zealotry phase, and used linux on just about every concievable machine I've touched.
I use windows on my laptop. Here is why.
- I like the way Windows XP looks. Cleartype rules on my laptop.
- All the flash readers, usb devices, and everything else I can get my hands on just WORKS most of the time.
- Games work better. All the games I play appear to be available on linux, but they just don't work as well.. this is most likely related to video drivers.
- Software compatability. Sorry, but in this modern world, I NEED MS Internet Explorer.
- Windows is NOT as bad as everyone makes it out to be; yes linux is far more open, but many, though not all, of the things that people whine about not being able to diagnose in windows are simply because they don't know how; they only know the unix way.
- Windows 2000 was a large improvement, I believe in a large way because of the pressure the Linux threat put on MS. Windows Xp even moreso from a personal workstation perspective.
At home I use OpenBSD, Mandrake, and OS X. At work I program on Solaris and HP/UX, but email, documentation, time input and payroll is all NT.
Maybe people use Windows because it is better. Most people that read slashdot are probably fairly computer literate, yet as you mentioned, they still use windows. You can complain about Bill and his billions and talk about OSS and its great advantages and how it is a great moral thing to do, but in the end, Windows is better. Its pretty easy to figure considering MS spends millions in research every year while all the linux companies go bust. All of the having your heart in it crap works in Hollywood, but in reality it comes down to money, which is why MS should never and hopefully will never go open source. If you want the best software with the best features, you have to pay for it. Its the age old saying, 'you pay for what you get'.
MS Office, Video Games, and other little nifty things like being able to direct connect to other users with AOL Instant Messangers.
If i could do those things in linux, oh man, i could die a completely happy person. I love Window Maker too.
I wish they didn't. I wish they were to let me do my work on a Solaris machine. But this cannot be because a crowd of Softies have crafted Intranet `Web' sites that work ONLY with IE. For starters, SharePoint sites have crippled functionality if you don't come with IE.
and what does a browser have to do with this anyway?
... seems to work as well doesn't it.
I didn't see the requirement to bash.
Insigthful only because the current mods hate Ms as much as you and refused to grade you off topic as deserved.
Actually, your point is well taken. Most people are using Windows because the real arrogant assholes are on the other side chiding them for their choice. You aren't going to win converts by simply slamming the other side. You just as might as well concentrate all your hate against Jeb
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
it's a pain setting up linux. either it's dependency upon dependency upon dependency, or it's taking an hour to get it to print to a local printer. and this is not a noob talking. multi-platform networks are my bread and butter, but if given a choice, give me a native windows nw to setup. linux is stable, doesn't fragment, but tell that to my clients whose comps freeze by just being idle, or whose red hat proprietary software k's out, and this is without any addition or changes to a fresh install on a amd 1.5 gHz, 256 mB box. and if something does crash, nothing is available for assistant other than someone else on a forum complaining about the same problem. yeah, nice an cheap, but you get what you pay for. i'd rather pay a ton in advance and be able to fix it myself than pay a shitload of tech support fees god knows how many times in the future. and when a knowledgable guy does come along, he invariably says he has to remove everything and start over. um, yeah, i paid how much for this?
1> Calagari Truespace.
:/ Truespace is so simple to use that I love it over 3D Studio. *I did email Calagari and bug them for a Linux version :D*
:)
2> Better UI then Gnome and KDE is slightly below the Windows UI in quality and ease of use in my opinion.
3> Much as I hate to say it. Plug it in and it works under XP even though I'm opressed by licensing agreements and the threat of DRM being shoved down my throat. This is in the sense that Joe-Average doesn't give a crap about config scripts and mount points. Just plug it in and go, PERIOD.
4> Apps arn't a problem. K-Office is beautiful, has everything I could ever want. Open Office is just as great. However, *see top of list* some things are still Windows only.
5> Stuck in my ways. I loved Dos, windows was eh. Flirted with OS/2 till I saw the price of the apps but it was the best! Now Windows apps are more outragous in price then OS/2 ever was. Still, what else is out there with a 95-98% market saturation of desktops? That is changing though.
6> Taking care of Windows users helped pay my way through college. Coding for them now even though I'm doing Java/JSP developement is paying for my loans.
Want to be productive again? Toss the computer out the window, go for a walk, smell the flowers and enjoy life while you can. The world is being destroyed by greed and hatred and will only last so much longer.
Computers don't make people productive, they just bind them to a desk or cubical and make them not enjoy the world outside.
The post of a crazy man. Sig below.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
- This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane.
The games are great on windows. Hardware is easy to setup, and so is much of the other software. Lots of other very easy to use and productive is on software, and not on linux. With windows it is get up and go. Linux is right on window's tail, and I think that when wine obtains complete compatability, then the amount of people using windows will quickly diminish. People will have less of a reliance on windows when their software will run flawlessly on Linux.
Games period. If games i play were supported, the switch would be permanent. At the moment, I use linux until i want to play cs, and then I switch back to windows, and somehow i remain using windows until i m ake a consious effort to switch to linux/*bsd again. It's the venus flytrap of the bits and bytes.
But I have a couple of reasons why I still use windows.
1. My school in school we program in MS visual studio., sure we have linux clubs and everything but the I.T guys won't even look at your machine if there is a problem and you're running linux.(I guess it's a cluase for buying the thinkpads via the school at a discounted price.)
2. My family. My laptop is dual booted. Mandrake 9.0 and wink2 sp3. I've tried to get my sister to try and do her work on my linux machine but she just won't. She says in school the machines all use Win/word and that is what she is going to use.Ssame thing with the parents all they know is Windows and thats all they feel comfartable with.
I've been threatened if I dual the boot the family comp. lol
3.Games while I may not play as much pc games as I do console. I still play some pc games. and lets face it Tux racer just can't compete with Unreal counter strike or Everquest.
Just my 2 cents. Like I said it's prob been said before. and I'll prob get just a score +1.
Trillian is the the main reason I'm still using Windows. Of course, I'll always keep my partition for games, but the vast majority of my time spent on my computer is using Opera, Trillian, and Winamp. Two of three (or equivalent) are available.
Oh, and when Gnome supports xSnow, without removing the desktop, I'll be even more inclined to switch :P
Trademarks don't expire. They last as long as the name has not become generic.
Copyrights don't expire. Disney can usually get the EU Parliament and the US Congress to pass repeated blanket copyright term extension laws.
Patents, on the other hand...
Digital imaging and printing has been around for a long time. Hasn't the patent [on color matching] expired by now, or due to expire shortly?
That's why GIMP won't support color matching for the foreseeable future.
Will I retire or break 10K?
FreeBSD is l33t. It's way better than leenuxs, which tries to copy BSD, but doesn't do it right.
My customers all use windows. The software I want to use is windows based. I COULD run something else by why take the extra complexity or risk? WTF would I do that. ANY extra inconvience, which everything else has doesn't make sense.
Get ahold of Win4Lin. It's cheap
$100 for Win4Lin and $100 for Windows 98 OEM? I could almost buy a second computer for that amount of money.
Will I retire or break 10K?
At work I run windows, but I'm trying to change this, linux is an impressive platform with alot of applications and the first step is replacing windows anywhere I can convince the boss it will work and make him more money. For us and our customers. The big hurdle is trying to convince him it is suitable somewhere that people can see it. Linux is limited when talking to windows, So I have to find places that linux can transparently pretend to be windows where nobody can see, and do so as well or better than the actual windows app it's replacing, and I can't just invent these scenerios, I have to find, figure out, and implement them when their needed. Once I break the "it's ok for the customer to see it" barrier, then I can use linux to linux and it will outclass all windows setups easily. At home, I have both, since I WORK with both, I have to be able to test both on my home pc, and generally I have no preference when I'm actually using it, I can do what I want on either platform. Although I admit that sometimes I slip back to windows to figure something out, the come back to linux to find a replacement now that I know how x type programs work. The biggest plus for windows I guess is ease of setup, I can install and try a dozen things and figure them out quickly. In linux, programs generally only make sense once you know how they work. I couldn't set up a linux mailserver without knowing how mailservers work, but how do I ever figure out how they work in the practicality I need to, without first having a mailserver?
suck on that all you first post lackies!
i r 3|2337!!!111!
once the downloads were done, it turned out that these packages required more packages. After the 2nd round, I gave up.
This happens mostly with RPM based Linux distributions that don't use APT-RPM. APT goes out and downloads a package's dependencies automatically.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Something that seems to be missing from this conversation is the whole revolutionary free and open part of the whole equation. I've been with linux for quite a while, old slackware nerd, when that was cool, back in the early to mid-90s. I quit for a few years, say 3. Came back, installed Redhat earlier this year and you cannot imagine my suprise. It doesn't suck anymore. It doesn't take 3 days to install. I don't have to hand compile the kernel for each new piece of hardware I've installed. The windowing system actually has some decent apps, and interoperability for most windows and Mac applications. Now, I have to say, if this free and open source initiative has gotten as far as it has with little to no funding, in such a short period of time. Just imagine what the future holds. We are catching up people, we are catching up!
Well, I assume this will not be read by many because there are allready 2000 posts on that subject but here is a quick script I wrote to satisfy my porn needs under linux. It uses perl and is not multipart yet (Hey I've spent less than 30 minutes developing this) If you save the code below as nntprtrv.pl and want to get all the pics from al.binaries.pictures.erotica.slashdot.geek, you would do: ./nntprtrv al.binaries.pictures.erotica.slashdot.geek You then have an almost unlimited source of porn. ;)):e r/you/like";n /pics"; ;f ile->print($uustring);a st.$NG") ;
Here is the code (sorry for the format but the lameness filter stopped me
#!/usr/bin/perl
use News::NNTPClient;
use Convert::UU qw(uudecode uuencode);
use IO::File;
print "$ARGV[0] ********\n";
print "$#ARGV\n";
if (@ARGV == 0){
die "Provide a news group name";
}
$NG=$ARGV[0];
$NNTPRTRVHOME="/what/ev
$ROOTDATA="/where/you/want/your/por
$NNTPSERVER="news.domain.tld"
$c = new News::NNTPClient("$NNTPSERVER") or die "failed to connect";
print "on est branché\n";
$lastproc=0;
do "last.$NG";
($first, $last)=($c->group("$NG")) or die "could not get info on this group. check if it exists";
if( $first body($first);
if($#body > 40) {
($uustring, $uufile, $uumode)= uudecode(\@body);
$fuufile=new IO::File;
opendir(TOTO,"$ROOTDATA/$NG") or (mkdir "$ROOTDATA/$NG", 0700) or die ("cannot open or create $ROOTDATA/$NG ");
closedir TOTO
$fuufile->open(">$ROOTDATA$NG/$uufile");
$fuu
$fuufile->close;}
else {print "article $first does not seem to contain an attachment\n";}
$lastprocessed=new IO::File;
$lastprocessed->open(">$NNTPRTRVHOME/l
$lastprocessed->print('$lastproc'," = $first;");
$lastprocessed->close;}
I'm an avid FreeBSD lover. In the past few years I've fallen in love with FreeBSD for it's rigid organization and ultimate simplicity. .NET or msn what-have-you that MS offers, but the choice is still simple. I own one primary laptop running windows, and a tower (266Mhz, 8000 miles away) running FreeBSD for anything unix. What's the quibble?
I use windows because it offers speed and elegance at a level not yet attained by any open-source or free operating evironment. I don't play games; I develop in C++ and python. I don't use any of the
-P
Since [Microsoft Windows 98 was] the last good versions of windows, why would you use any others?
Don't tell me you think Windows 98 SE is a better OS than the newer NT 5.x series (Windows 2000 SP3 and Windows XP). In memory and CPU use on old hardware (200 MHz, 64 MB RAM), yeah, the Windows 9x series has the edge. But in stability, 9x can't touch NT and WINE based operating systems.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Have you considered that it's not because you're a newbie. It's just you. Maybe a talking paperclip is more your style.
Discreet and Adobe apps
Yes I know that many of the other magor 3D apps are in linux or for OS X, but I want my 3DSMAX!!! And until Adobe has it line of apps for linux, it will never support what I do, oh and I have tried to use gimp for real work and well it just did make the grade.
Dr. Suess: 'Gandalf, Gandalf! Take the ring! I am too small to carry this thing!' 'I can not, will not hold the One.
I have mostly worked in small companies. We always used Windows because that's what the other people used at home, and were comfortable with. As a tech guy, I could go either way: Linux or Windows. But the other people (sales, mktg, etc.) prefer Windows, so that's what we use.
How about just about anything else of the shelf? I'll give you Unreal 2k3, but anything not written for Linux is doomed to crash and take hours of fooling with it
Really? When I want a 2D platformer, I just go to the "Game Boy Advance" section, pick out a game I want, put it in my GBA, and play it. It's even easier than Windows XP's so-called "plug and pray". If I want to play it on a big screen, I plug my GBA into my computer, dump the cartridge, and fire up VisualBoyAdvance.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I use Linux because it has one of the best games ever: Frozen Bubble.
:-D
(OK, so that's only part of the reason, but it's a good one.)
nerd
-P
I've got an Athlon machine w/ a Radeon 7000, and Warcraft III runs like a champ. It looks as good as it does in Windows.
And, winex was simple as hell to install. You just click on it, and a little window pops up to ask for your root password. That's it. No wizards, no typing commands. Just double click on it in the file mananger.
Once winex is installed, insert the WCIII cd, click on the CD icon which will appear, and click on the Setup/installer program. The usual WCIII installation will start.
There's nothing hard about it.
A friend of mine mentioned a few years back that his vision of the computing future was that there would not be an overall Operating System. People don't care about the operating system, and, actually, they don't need one. What they want and need is applications. He saw that the applications would come with a small "wrapper" that would allow the applications to interface with the hardware.
And shortly after that, Amiga anouncounced Amiga DE. (Total coincidence, because hadn't heard about Amiga until I told him about it then.)
And that's what it does. Well, close to it. It allows developers to start thinking that way, anyway. And that's good.
But I thought that was an incredibly powerful idea. It probably won't work, becasue there would be memory conflicts and port conflicts and THAT's what the OS is supposed to manage.
Ha! A Libertarian Operating System. Now THAT'S interesting...
Many stupid websites shut you out, if you don't use Netscape or IE.
In your particular situation, after all attempts of polite evangelism of standards-based web authoring have failed, why can't you just tell them "You've lost a customer"?
Will I retire or break 10K?
First is Configuration and Installation of various programs. DANG have I wasted a ton of time just getting some simple program running in linux, is it too hard to just unclude a menu driven install or make some sort of universal installation system? I bet a bunch of you are just going to say "well you just don't know about this or that or whatever". THATS THE POINT. I shouldn't need to know a ton of commands just to install a 100k game. And rmp packages are weak when you want to configure where it goes and stuff (unless you read the long manpage). I don't need to waste all my time reading the installation instructions or go through 50 steps to update my kernel. COMPATABILITY. Well no one but the programmers and hardware manufacturers are to blame for this. I would like to see more games compatable with linux (WITHOUT THE NEED FOR WINE). Also some hardware drivers that don't need kernel hacking, a nice little menu will do.
The problem is that linux is open so there can be billions of different setups and it is impossible for a programmer to forsee all of them. If the linux community can develop a system of total GUI and extreme usability, installation, configuration, and a standard for look and feel for programs we would be set to take the world with linux.
5i9|\|3d, 5|\|ip3ri|\|di59ui53
If It's perennial, then why does it come up so often
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Sorry if not all the links are applicable, but with 249 to look through I gave up after 40, and at first picked some questionable ones, because I didn't think there would be so many promising ones so deep in the google page rankings.
I have tried Linux (MDK 8.*)
My evaluation:
Linux is better documented, which is really the only advantage, unless you are doing systems progamming.
Windows NT is probably less buggy than Linux.
All versions of windows are more compatible with various PC hardware.
So for a *user*, as opposed to a hardcore geek/programmer, Windows is much easier to use, and a bit more dependable (NT, not Win 95, Win 98, Win ME).
Sig:
Navy nuke sub lifestyle?
I use OS X at work for layout (Pagemaker under Classic - must put a bullet in that) and graphics (Photoshop.
I would use BeOS for everything if I could get the apps for it. If wine worked, or if Virtual PC for BeOS was ever made, I would be done with booting windows forever. I can't expect that developers are going to write my apps for BeOS, so I guess I can deal with running Windows in a window.
Linux suffers from things that OS X, BeOS, and Windows figured out a long time ago. Make install, configuration, and USE easy.
When OpenBeos is ready - I am there. There is no OS that is as easy and FAST. Use a CL if you want - or don't. OS X and BeOS have that figured out.
I WANT TO GET OUT! I have tried installing Linux several times - Mandrake, RedHat (purchased) and Lindows. Sure, I get them running - but how to do things? To install something on OS X I double click on it, or drag it to a folder. To install something on Windows I double click on it, or drag it to a folder. To install something on BeOS I double click on it, or drag it to a folder. Why should Linux be different?
I want to hear sounds. Windows, OS X, and BeOS all work if there is a driver. Linux - I have to recompile a kernal??
I want to get on the net and get email. Easy 'till I get to Linux.
OpenBeos is going to be amazing. Just amazing. Incredibly fast, simple interface, customizable, uses old hardware to the max. Did I say fast? I can't wait.
I'm done rambling for now.
I don't use Microsoft products because I want to; I use Microsoft products because I don't have a choice. Proprietary de-facto standards rule the roost.
Colleen was given the opportunity of a lifetime, and she blew it. She is clearly technologically and economically illiterate. She could have made the world a much better place. Instead she made it worse. Her actions can only be described as cowardly and ignorant.
I will continue to use Microsoft products because that the only way I can communicate with the vast majority of users who don't care that the world could be better. I will continue to use Microsoft products because Judge Colleen believes that what's best for Microsoft is best for all of us. I will continue to use Microsoft products because Judge Colleen is a coward. I will continue to use Microsoft products because this spineless ignorant judge failed to free the world from the grip of Microsoft's proprietary file formats and protocols.
That's why I use Microsoft products.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
This is a rather lengty note. It contains my experiences from trying Red Hat distributions over the years. I believe I started out with 4.0 and that I've tried every major release since then (6, 7 and 8 at least).
/bin, some is under /usr/bin, some is under usr/sbin. This is a HUGE minus. I want all my programs in one place. Also I don't want to have to worry about the current path.
I would love to switch to Linux but I feel it's just not good enough yet. Allthough the worst flaw has been fixed with the release of Mozilla (Netscape 4 was completely useless and not having had a better browser has in my opinion held Linux back for a long time).
1. Games
I havn't checked out recent offerings by TransGaming but when you visit their site it seems they charge for their software and then I might as well play my games on Windows without spending the extra money and experiencing whatever compability problems that would arise.
2. Stability
Linux just freaks out on me. If I toy around with Linux I can break it unintentionally. That never happens with Windows. If anything serious breaks in Linux I have to reinstall. In Windows I just go to safe mode and undo whatever I did.
3. Organization
I can't find the software in my Linux distribution. Some of the software is under
4. Banking
No browser I've tried works with my bank except IE.
5. The XP login screen and user-switching
These features totally own. Even my mother figured out how to click the right picture to login as her user. That in my opinion is better than granny-proof. It's like granny-proof-XXL.
6. Usability
_Everything_ with Linux is more complicated. It doesn't matter what. Emacs is a perfect example. I can't even save and exit in emacs. In Word (I know they're not the same type of software, but bare with me) I can write a multi-column document, with pictures, start the document with a greeting "Hi foo", and have "foo" replaced with a name from a database so I can send out a mass-invitation for a party or something. This the first time I used it. Remmeber in Emacs I can't even save, even less exit the program. Can you see the HUGE difference in usability here?
7. Speed
Gnome, the last time I tried it, is slow. I consider my 866 MHz machine a very fast one. It can run just about any game on Windows at 50+ fps.
When running Gnome I seem to be getting something closer to 20 fps. Choppy. Sigh.
8. Installation
I can pretty much install the system. I can't choose individual packages but I can do almost everything else. I know how to configure my network settings and partition my harddrive. I know what type of software I would like to use. This does NOT mean I enjoy telling my computer all this. Do you have _ANY_ idea of how hard the installation is for someone who doesn't know more than the fact that he wants to connect to the internet? WORK on this guys. Most people have no idea of what eth0 is or what DHCP stands for. Nor should they be interested. Also I tried to install RH 8.0 recently. I had my home-burned CD validated by Red Hat's software. The installation then failed at a later stage because the CD could not be read. This happened six times in a row at the exact same spot so I guess the CD is broken. Could someone fix whatever software is used to validate the CD? Also, why does the installation break because one lousy package can't be read from the CD?
9. Clutter
I don't want to do many things with my computer. I want to browse the web, read my email, chat on irc. Why am I presented with one million programs in the startmenu? Why does the installation take 1 GB of space and half an hour to complete? Once again I just want to do these three things with my computer. Of course I could extend this list with things I do less often: MUD using telnet, instant-messaging, write Java. But I realize these are minority interests that less than 1% would share with me so I don't have to have them from scratch. Can you please remove all the stuff I don't use from the installation, or at least the startmenu? And oh, I definitely do not need five different types of desktop software (kde, wm, gnome, ice, etc.).
10. Summary
Linux is more complicated, more cluttered, the programs are spread out in different locations so I can't find them, installation is too complicated and breaks too easily, Mozilla doesn't work with my bank, Gnome is slow, if the slightest thing breaks I need to reinstall, no games.
I wish I could be part of a usability-study for a linux distribution and show them what they are doing wrong. The usability-gap between Windows and Linux is staggering yet subtle. I want less choices, and I want the few choices I absolutely have to make explained to me in terms I can understand. Developers have a tendency to ask the user too many questions. For instance if I install mozilla and submit a web-form I get some mumbo-jumbo warning about sending insecure information over the internet. I don't care and neither does anyone else. Really, no one cares. Honest! Please remove this dialog-box.
Another example is that I have to choose between KDE and Gnome when I install. Decide it for me. If I want to change my desktop I'll change it. But then again, why should I want to change it? You should have picked one satisfactory for me to begin with.
If you are a linux distribution developer contact me. I would love to help you with design-documents to make your distributions easier to use, even granny proof.
Humans have a powerful herd instinct. Even if you educate a clueless one as to the reasons why to avoid Microsoft products, all it takes is for them to look around and see everyone else using Windows. The insecurity of "being different" takes over, and they conform to the norm.
If a majority of people inhaled fumes from a chemical device known to be addictive and to eventually cause cancer in the majority of users, there would still be significant demand for the product. Even if only a minority of the population were users of such a product, demand could easily be stimulated by showing attractive role models using the product in magazine and TV ads. Same thing for ingested substances known to destroy brain cells.
Conditioning individuals to see the expected norms as manufacturers want them to see it is the basis for mass market advertising. People are highly susceptible to advertising, and notice how rarely ads emphasize a product's strengths -- almost never -- over associating a product with a desirable situation. All the logic and reason in the world will not prevent a clueless user from being attracted to Windows, when the majority of the world they see uses it.
This applies in spades to decisions made by management or committees, which is why Microsoft and corporate use are synonymous. Linux use in business will never be more than a slim fraction, because of this. If it were otherwise, every corporate desktop would already be a Linux desktop, due to the significant savings that goes right to the bottom line.
If you want someone to use an OS other than Windows, you have only a couple of winning strategies:
1) Make sure that the majority of other users they interact with use your chosen platform, be it Mac, Linux, OS/2, or whatever. They will come to see that as the expected norm and acclimate easily.
2) Have some feature of the non-Windows system you are pushing that either does not exist on Windows, or is so weakly presented that your alternative seems viable to them. This feature must be something your target user sees as a "must-have" capability.
The only reason that Macintosh has any presence in the home market is due to its past dominance in the educational markets carrying over into the home. An example of #2 is the persistence of Macs in the publishing industry due initially to the superior typography and image capabilities, which resulted in the publishing industry getting hooked on Applescript. Today, with similar typographical and image processing capabilities present in Windows, Apple retains the publishing business solely due to the widespread use of Applescript to automate processing. If Microsoft would come out with an Applescript clone, they would own the publishing business inside of 3 years.
People weren't made to think. They are built to follow, and crowd together in herds. Thinking and individualism are abnormal characteristics. Look at what a rousing success Apple's "Think Different" campaign was -- nobody wants to "think differently".
The nail that stands up gets hammered down.
It's how we're made.
Only reason i stick to windows, especially on my laptop linux doesnt support my display or videocard so no 3d support and shitty vidow all together. And just cause p0rn0 looks better in windows! :~)
linux has no good asian language input systems. nothing that holds a candle to MS's anyway..
and the development tools suck eggs! i'd rather purify than valgrind, and quantify than gprof...
The only reason I still use windows is due to the fact that majority of games will -not- run on a linux platform. Otherwise, all hail linux, windows sucks !
The second software devs/pubs switch completely over to linux, I'm there.
Let's face it, Windows is easy. Web sites work, apps are compatible, and games run. Do I admit that MS makes a superior OS? No, I don't. I switched to an all Linux environment about 8 months ago. As an OS, I think Linux is superior. Still, I am switching back.
With Linux, I never had to reboot, never managed to mess up the OS to the point of total kludge, Samba worked like a charm, E-Mail happened on time (well, KMail hung on occasion, but kill the process and restart and it rocked). I just never had the full range of motion with linux that I do with Windows.
As an application platform, Windows owns the day. Games, office apps, and web content are all easier with MS. The OS locks up, spyware, adware, and plain assed vaporware abound, but the stuff that should work does.
I hate Microsoft's corporate philosophy as much as I love the concept of open source. But lets face it, they have the clout at the moment. I finally came to the conclusion that I am not willing to give up all the functionality that Windows gives me for an ideal.
Linux is so, so close. One or two more iterations and MS will have to either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way. Until that time comes, Novell or Linux on the server side, and Windows on the desktop.
I agree. You should see some of the flames I get posting here, except they are all from Microturds and others who have nothing better to do than troll slashdot. Those IRC twerps are nobodies. Copetent people ignore trolls and do their best to help out the ignorant. Don't let them make you run screaming into Bill Gates' waiting embrace.
I keep seeing Photoshop mentioned. I've yet to use all the features the GIMP has. Have you tried it? You might look into the win32 version of it the next time you feel compelled to buy an new photoshop. The authors don't claim it's a replacement for photoshop, but it does what I need.
Outlook is huge and I'm sorry that you have to use it. My little Handspring Visor showed me how many useful features Outlook is missing despite it's size.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
One of the things I find the most frustrating about Linux is the lack of standards in the GUI. Have you ever used a computer when the mouse didn't work? On Windows, you can keep right on moving along -- every program follows the same standards. How do I close this windows? Why Alt-F4 of course. That works in Windows 3.1 on up, OS/2, Motif, etc. etc. Linux window managers *used* to follow that standard -- until someone decided it was too Microsoftish (never mind that it was part of CUA -- the Common User Access as defined by IBM).
With each new release, Linux takes a step backwards. I never know what the keyboard shortcuts are going to be. Talk about a "point and drool interface", that is Linux. You must use that mouse.
The recent accessibility initiatives are improving the situation, but it is too little too late.
Some smartass always points out that I could just redefine the keyboard shortcuts. But then I would have a nonstandard system and any other system I went to would not have the same (or even similar) shortcuts.
Another reason I spend more time in Windows is for printer support. Linux is only recently moving from the stone age to the iron age. Try using all of those nifty features that your printer has from a Linux system. You know: multiple trays, envelope feeders, double-sided printing, etc. Good luck! Some of them you can get to work no problem -- but only when printing certain ways. Printing a text document with a2ps or enscript, I can do quite a bit. Printing via other methods, I can't. Some things take a herculean effort to figure out. I should not have to spend three hours figuring out arcane Ghostscript parameters just to use my printer.
The next big area is sound support. Gag! It just plain sucks! Maybe someday when ALSA is the standard things will be better. We are not there yet.
As it comes to servers, I use Linux and won't use anything else. But when it comes to an end-user experience, give me Windows.
At home, I have 4 Linux boxes of differing kernels, distros, functionalities, etc. I enjoy working with Linux and spend most of my home computing time doing so. There is *almost* nothing I can't do on a Linux box that I can do on Windows. I've got it playing and ripping DVDs as well as CDs, playing all of the major multimedia formats (AVI, MPG, ASF, MOV, etc.) with mplayer, and picture viewing with GQView.
My wife is on XP for Quicken and to VPN to work. I have XP on one box as well. I need it to run 2 separate VPN clients for work. My main reason for the XP box is one particular piece of hardware though... Layla20 by Echo Audio. I do digital recording with this piece of equipment with Cakewalk and Sound Forge. I've seen nothing on Linux comparable to these 2 programs. Even if there were, the hardware is still not supported although they have supposedly released the hardware specs to the public now for open source development. It's probably also important to note that I bought Layla before I was turned on to Linux. I'm not ditching the hardware because it cost me over $700.00 brand new. Anyone know of any Linux development being done with Layla? Please?
My most advanced computer hardware-wise is the XP box ringing in at 2.4 GHz. That being said, I still use my 800 MHz Debian machine the most frequently. I touch the XP machine about once every 2 weeks. Sickening having all of that processing power and not using it, eh?
At work, I have 2 machines: a W2K box that requires MS-Access and Excel. I also have my W2K laptop on which I boot into Knoppix very frequently. :-) Work dictates that I use Windows. There's no getting past that. I *have* actually sold my boss on the Ruby programming language, so open source has a small sphere of influence there. I even have my boss using it.
The only time I play games is using a gaming console. That's what they're for. Keyboard and mouse gaming have their place, but I've moved on. The console market is where it's at for me now.
Just had to get my $0.02 in.
I hate people that hate Windows because they hate Bill because he's so damn rich. Well let me tell you a little something... Bill Gates is a good guy. He does a lot for the city of Seattle, the state of Washington, and people around the world. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation do quite a lot. Five point five billion dollars in grants. Take a little stroll through that list of who got grants. Now, tell me what Bill Gates is not honerable. It disgusts me to see him get constantly flamed. Look at Borg Bill on /.
Yes, he does have a lot of money BUT he does put some if it to good causes.
Thank you.
Here are the two things I've learned from reading the posts on Windows vs. Linux 1) Windows is the dominant player in the world of operating systems. 2) People who use Linux can argue and debate MUCH better than people who use Windows :-)
Games, that's the only reason. As soon as the kinks get worked out of wine and winex, I'm going to switch fullblown to Linux faster than a Federal judge can cash a payoff check.
image editing (photoshop, why bother learning the Gimp when I've been using photoshop for over 10 years), video editing (nothing on Linux comes close to Vegas Video in price, features or performance), Office (especially word and FrontPage), plus DreamWeaver
Need a good MIDI sequencer? There're four really really good ones for Windows under $100 but ZERO on Mac.
Apple Computer had to remove the MIDI Manager from Mac OS because of a trademark lawsuit from Apple Corps (the Beatles' record label) alleging that by including robust MIDI support in Mac OS, Apple Computer "had entered the recording industry", violating the agreement between the two companies. Thus, the publishers of each sequencing program for the Mac have to include separate drivers licensed from each MIDI adapter manufacturer, and that costs money.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Windows XP/2K is unarguably the best operating system to date. If Linux is "better," then how come there are SOOOOOOOOOO many more hundreds of millions of people using Windows? That's right! Because Windows is SUPERIOR to Linux! You can't deny it. You know it's true, deep down inside, no matter how much of a Linux zealot you are.
Bottom line: Windows > Linux
1. Developers!
2. Developers!
3. Developers!
4. Developers!
And the obligatory:
5. ???
6. Profit!
Powered by Web3.5 RC 2
I had a submission accepted (*once*, but I digress). I included a link to my website. As expected, traffic went up. A review of the logs showed the majority (like 80%) of those referred to the site from slashdot were using Windows, with the majority of those using XP (interesting, as usually most of my visitors are using Me).
This doesn't answer why, but I found the results amusing considering the anti-ms vitriol found here.
Secondly, there are no such things as secretive APIs. Saying there are makes you look incompotent. APIs exist solely to be exposed to be programmers to make programming easier for them, to draw them to the platform.
There exist Microsoft applications that rely on some functions within Windows that don't fit your definition of API. These are kernel syscalls that Microsoft does not document but which improve the speed of Microsoft applications on Windows vs. competing applications on Windows.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Nobody is probably going to read this since it is about the 2000th post on this thread but I have moved off of linux and windows to OS X. I have been using it now for about 3 weeks and I am happy that I moved on. OS X in my opinion is the best of both worlds. I've got unix underneath the hood, apps, stability and open source tools available like apache, mysql and php if I need them. For my needs and what I do it is the perfect combination.
I don't know if other people have noticed but I have started to notice more OS X postings on slashdot and other stories in the news around the net. I think OS X is catching on more and more (do I have proof no, that is why I said think). It would probably catch on more if apple would lower the prices on the hardware and open up OS X to the PC platform with those hidden AMD machines running OS X.
"With enough memory and hard drive space, anything in life is possible!"
At home, I have managed to convert to a Mandrake desktop. Been using Linux in some form or another since 95. (It took a while.)
What got me on Linux at home was web based applications, Evolution, Open Office. I do a lot of remote support and communication. Linux is very good for this. With VNC and SSH I make use of the home box all the time.
The other things for home Linux was DVD movie playback, screw the law, I like OGLE and buy my DVD media fair and square. Mp3 rip mix burn was important --I use ogg now for new stuff. Games. I do not purchase many and the kind I like are starting to show up in Linux. So by the time I want a new one, there are enough choices for Linux. The rest happen on a PS2. (I *like consoles.)
At work, we use BSD for a web server, IRIX for some MCAD application support, and win32 for everything else.
What will help at work?
Office connectivity for an exchange environment that really just works and is inexpensive. We are a small shop and have a Microsoft Partner relationship. This gives us a significant cost advantage.
More web based applications. Using a browser makes a lot of sense. Wonder why more companies are not using the real potential for Mozilla to be an interface. Microsoft does not see this because they are buried in the whole client server thing.
Funny thing, IRIX shines for administering and maintaining the win32 PC environment here. Open up a few VNC sessions, setup a couple of desktops and you can easily work with many machines. Linux, of course would do this as nicely, but I have a reason for IRIX.
One application needed is Sales contact information management sofware like goldmine or maximizer. Either good cilents, wine support, or web interfaces would go a long way toward getting Linux on my desktop.
Management is not opposed as long as I can do what I do well.
Mcad is coming. There is a Linux version of the PTC software. This is a big step! I do wonder about Solidworks and SolidEdge though. They are win32 to the core and have a lot of users. Looks like a lot of engineers will be on win32 for a while.
Blogging because I can...
The hardcore tech's have already moved to Linux for tech reasons. I think I'm part of the next wave to slowly migrate over - the reasonably technically literate and the frustrated.
I'm using Linux on my web server, and have a dual boot at home. All my other desktops are 98. None will ever see a further upgrade to an MS product. I know it has to come - and know it should come now - but this thread is excellent; why *haven't* I moved already?
Three simple reasons:
1) Fear. I'm comfortable with my current system. I know every 3-6 months I do a complete OS reinstall to fix all my problems. I don't have this level of confidence in my abilities on Linux yet.
2) No time to learn.
3) Compatibility/software issues. I don't want to find out there is software I need but can't run, or I can't interface with my customers. In all honesty, I can't think of any customer transactions where it would be an issue. I would lose some software, but nothing that can't be replaced by something comparable.
Ultimately what I need is a swift kick in the a$$ to get me to convert. So what's the kick going to be? What's needed is an app that user's need but can't get unless they migrate - or if not that, an app that gets them thinking of moving. Forget the OS - give the world an application that requires the OS. A start would be getting some mainstream coverage of something like open office. Products like this should be getting coverage in the NY times or the Wash. Post. What would be better than 'free office suite - better than Office?' to perk the public's interest?
Life Insurance in Canada
Looks like this particular story has made the Hall Of Fame on Slashdot.
I'm not a fan of Windows at all. In fact if MS somehow fell flat on it's face and died I wouldn't shed a tear. However, since that's not a reality, unfortunetely I need to stick with Windows. Reasons? Well, there are quite a few...
1- Driver support. Yea, I know there's a ton of drivers available for Linux, but in the real world, they're limited. For instance, my USB scanner refuses to work with ANY form of Linux at all.
2- Software support. Specifically Macromedia software. I'm a Web Developer and use Dreamweaver exclusively with bits in Flash. Yea, I know there's a lot of Open Source / GPL / whatever software out there, but be honest, how much of it can compare with Dreamweaver? I won't go into specifics, but if you use Dreamweaver, you know what I'm talking about.
3- All the servers at work, unfortunetely, are Windows machines with both the Intranet and Internet sites using ASP. I have no real feasable choice in the matter, it was that way when I was hired. I would love to have the time to migrate everything over to Linux and use Cold Fusion, but that's not a reality. There's far too much to do this in any acceptable time frame.
There's more, but those are the top 3. IF Macromedia would release a *native* version of Flash & Dreamweaver, I would seriously consider switching over. Yea, I know, "use Wine / Open Office / XWine". That's not a reliable alternative. I have in fact tried to get Dreamweaver running on those with various levels of success. However, eventhough I got it installed and actually running, it's not stable enough for any serious work. I couldn't even get Flash running at all. VMWare? Too slow and I'm still running Windows eventhough it's in a virtual machine. Same with Win4Lin. Not stable or fast enough for my needs.
I have however begun teaching my kids how to run Linux and about the power of Open Source software and have a Linux box for them to play with. They won't adopt that machine very easilly though as it can't run 1/2 the games they have for their Windows box.
When software and hardware companies finally get with the program and start releasing stuff for Linux, THAT'S when Linux will start to dominate.
My good sig is in the laundry
I haven't found a linux newsreader that even comes remotely close. Thats the biggest reason.
$.02 /lot's/ of windows apps on sourceforge lately.
Linux has more apps, it's suprising how many ppl don't know about sourceforge & freshmeat. I use linux 100%, I hardly ever run into an app that don't run linux.
Tip: There are
If I let other ppl tell me what apps I need then there are usually compatibility issues, that's why I decide for myself & try to include something linux specific in my search for apps.
Games are stupid; I'm tired of running through mazes or plaing xcraft x. I switched from windows because they quit writing games for it years ago if you don't count dusting off a game to support some new hardware features or reskinning.
My fiancee wants to use it for Quicken
Tried Gnucash? If that doesn't fit your needs, does Quicken work with WINE?
the kids for games.
Get the kids a GameCube. Most (not all, most) of the genres thought to be better on PCs than on consoles aren't well suited for minor children. PC first-person shooters are typically rated Mature (video game equivalent of MPAA R rating for movies) for gore, and multiplayer online role-playing games may cost more per month than some kids get for allowance. That is, unless your kids are like I was at that age, writing their own computer games.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Well, I've just recently ventured into linux, and I'm using a 'dumbed down' if you will version of it - lycoris dektop/lx. It installed in 30 min and I was instantly online and all my hardware worked (except my zip drive, but I never use it). I was quite impressed. Yet, on the pII 266 machine it's one, it's slower than WinME. There is the issue of games. I mostly play quake, which I'm told runs faster on linux, but I want all my games to work all the time and not have to worry, oh will this game work or not? If I'm playing games it's in my free time, and if I'm wasting my free time trying to get my games to work, I'm not playing them. As far as stability, NT has kinda nullified that argument for the desktop user.
e tc. The disunity is/would be confusing for the average user, and it is what limits the ease of installing software and hardware (how do you write programs to do these things if every distro does it their own way?).
Now, the one thing I think is critical for Linux to succeed is a centralization of coding. There needs to be like 5 distos: A Desktop distro, a Server distro, a Minimalist Distro, a Traditional Distro (command line or limited GUI), and a PDA/Portable Distro. Maybe some other things like a multimedia PC distro or something would pop up. But the key idea here is if you want a linux desktop os, you pick the desktop version. Just like windows, if you want a desktop os, you buy Windows XP. IF you want an MS Server OS, there are several options. If you want a PDA software, there's pocketpc 2002/3. With Linux, you have to choose between Mandrake/RedHat/Suse/Lycoris/Lindows(shiver)/etc/
If that happened, the focus of one large community would get things done so much faster, and there would be more people available to dedicate themselves to say, driver support, Wine type technology, etc.
The general population can't be hassled with understanding what their computer does, they just want it to do what they want. I always knew this but the other day I was talking with a few people who are working on a project with me, and we needed to do a powerpoint presentation. I said I didn't have Powerpoint, and the other people In my group were like, oh, well I have windows xp, I don't know if that has Powerpoint. I told them it didn't come with windows, you had to have office, and then someone else said, I have that imitation windows, I don't think it has powerpoint. She was talking about Windows ME. They just didn't understand, and It kind of amazed me.
Until linux can provide a useable desktop for this kind of people, it won't get anywhere with anyone but the developer community. People from outside the community need to start giving input that the community listens to. Then Linux will have some degree of success. That is, if they can overcome the ultimate obstacle of marketing.
I'm also a convert but didn't fully convert until about 2001. Up until then I quite often dual booted ever since I learned about linux in 1996, primarily because internet browsing (IE was just so much easier to use, until I've now gone MOZ) and games. But now my main machine is a Redhat 7.3 and an ibook with OSX 10.2. I'll have to agree with all those OSX users out there that this little ibook is AWESOME! But it is not my main machine (yet?) I am so acustomed to using a big ole box with a 19" 50lb monitor with a IBM model M keyboard dug out of a dumpster. As far as the games arguement; I've finally realized after playing too much diablo2 (wineX version even) that gaming is a total waste of time, but still occasionally that itch comes along to waste the time and I have an addiction to KDE klines. I even learned to code enough to hack the source code of klines so that I could play with a bigger board or more or less balls. Also there are alot of other quite addicting games that come with almost any major linux distro especially kde. What do you get with windows? sol, freecell, pinball and minesweeper? Thats all? How about the game that you put together atomic particles?
The only drawback that I have not using windows is now when family and friends ask help and they have winXP, I don't really have a clue how to help them, but yet they still rely on me. I just say something like, well check your settings in your control panel?
I just wanted to post because more than 2000 of you have posted too, so me too!
Watch out for .Net enabled sites. You might have to choose from a castrated Web interface of a real .Net interface in less time than you think. Yes, ASP Controls will be controled by Microsoft and will as incompatible as they see fit.
unfinished: (adj.)
Why do I use Windows?
1. Games. People say that lots of newer games run on Linux. Yes, but not all of them. And I play a lot of older games that you just can't play on Linux.
2. Don't like the interface. I found the interfaces of GNOME and KDE to be much more cumbersome and difficult to use than Windows.
3. Everything just works. When I upgrade Windows, or install Windows on a computer, everything works. No need to worry about bizarre configuration settings to get my devices to work. The past three times I have tried to install Linux, only once could I get everything to work.
4. Happy applications. I have a lot of custom-made applications, and other things that are ONLY for Windows. I don't want to take the time to find equivalents for Linux, if there are any.
5. Why would I switch? I have absolutely NO reason to go through the trouble of switching to Linux! All of my hardware and software works with Linux, Windows is fairly stable (one crash in the past 2 weeks - big deal!)
6. Evil community. When I have gone to chat rooms or message boards for Linux help, I am met with vague requests to check the FAQs or something. Well, surprise, I already did! NOBODY wants to help! It's very annoying. With Windows, I have always received an answer fast. And when I have a support problem with the OS, who do I go to for Linux? If I downloaded the thing for free I am not getting any support! But I have found Microsoft support to be fast and helpful.
So I guess I am keeping myself on Windows.
2. Games.
3. You have to, in order to port and communicate with everyone** else in the world, especially the corporate world.
4. It comes with new computers.
5. It's easier to use than *nix, and everyone has learned to use the Internet on Windows PC's.
**To a good first approximation.
Any decent application for Windows costs money - Winzip, ws-ftp, Office, and the list goes on.
Many have free clones on Windows - Freezip, FTP Explorer, OpenOffice.org, and the list goes on.
Also, try and find good audio/video software for Windows that doesn't cost a small fortune. For Linux, there's the excellent transcode program and it's utilities.
VirtualDub? Flask MPEG?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original P2P program GNUtella was for Linux first.
No, it was a windows app first. It has no connection to the GNU project. It was being developed within AOL's Nullsoft division, but AOL's Warner Bros. Records division shut down the project before it could release source code.
And I believe Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3 are all available for Linux?
True.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I use Windows. I have used Linux. Here is my story..
.NET . Somewhere in 2000, I began hearing about the new .NET initiative. At that time it was called something like "Next Generation". Not too much longer, the preview edition of .NET was released. I immediately downloaded it and I was quite excited. I must admit this new technology has sold me on Microsoft. I now use the .NET technology to develop applications, and although not perfect, it is a very productive framework for solving business problems.
.COM era was a catalyst to this sort of change, but unfortunately that didn't go very far. Even if it did, my guess is that there would be a new Linux for the geeks inside us that want to go against the grain. Even with the advent of Redhat we've seen a lot of flames because of the business actions and dealings the company has made.
Back in my college days (94-98) I was big into Linux. After the prompting of a friend, I decided to see what this "Linux" was all about. I was always into computers and started programming in Turbo Pascal as a hobby back when that was considered geeky (heck, it still probably would be).
Anyway, I first installed Slackware back in 1994 and ran a server out of my dorm room once we got 10BT connections. As a student in Computer Science and Engineering, Linux was a good choice because many of my programming projects were to be written in C. I still recall compiling my first c program with gcc for a class. I was mesmerized by the power that Linux offered me with simple command line constructs. Granted, it took me a while to learn many of these commands, but there was always a sense of gratification that came along with it. Not only that, but figuring out how to master the files in rc.d. Messing with fstab and mounting a cdrom for the first time. Recompiling the kernal so my soundcard, ethernet card, and zip drive could work. These were all fun things for me, and I enjoyed helping others "buy into" Linux and the sheer power that it offered minus the bloat.
Anyway, several years passed by and I soon graduated. I had an internship at a company where I had to program "ASP" web pages. At the time, connecting a database to a web page was something new and exciting to me. Prior to my new development duties, I was happily using Emacs. However, with ASP I had to use Visual Interdev. This was my first experience with "Intellisense" and I really liked it.
I was still gung-ho Linux at this point (in 1998). However, my boss, a former unix guru (spent 15 years at BGSU setting up their Internet) was trying to tell me how Unix is far behind in terms of the real business world. He had met and fellowshipped in the "long hair" Unix conventions with the likes of RMS, Eric Allman, and other well knowns. His biggest argument was that it is just easier to get things done with Microsoft (at least from a development perspective).
Over the next 2 years I began developing database applications for company I worked for. I was truly excited by the ease of use in the development tools. Unfortunately, I had also seen many a web server crash due to memory leaks and other issues with MS. I still wasn't completely sold on MS but I knew I could deal with it.
Enter
I guess when I think about the Linux vs. Microsoft battle, I believe that it really does boil down to a few crucial points.
1. What are the best tools for the job? Depends on what job you are doing. For me it is developing software applications. Most computers out in the real world run Microsoft OS's and have IE browseres. Hence, it only makes SENSE to develop for that. In addition, the tools that developers have are really second to none. There may be some technically superior languages that only run on Linux, more powerful things you can do, more security, etc. But honestly, those things aren't as important as building applications for the majority of people, which are on MS platforms.
That leads me to my next point:
2. The MS platform is what is out there. Linux is difficult to set up for the average joe blow user on the desk top. There is no authority on what windowing system / manager to use. In a sense, Linux's strong point is also a weakness- free/open source means everyone is equal. Anyone can develop something for it. Not everyone wants to develop the same thing, so Linux has factions. Will Linux ever be able to unite and compete? I think Redhat has a good shot at it, but honestly the concept of free and open is inheritenly never going to make Redhat the beast that MS is. Which again brings me to the next point:
3. We live in a capitalist society. Business are largely the entities who drive the marketplace. Linux doesn't stand for capitalism (going back to the previous point) because it wants to be "free". Microsoft is just the opposite- it wants to charge as much as possible for it's OS as the market will accept. But Microsoft is also very unified and looking out to continually make money which means, at least to some degree, giving the customer what it wants. If Windows ever got "that bad", people really would switch to something else. But why would Bill Gates, probably the wisest business man EVER, let windows get "that bad"? Of course that is possible, that is how America works. But I don't see that happening for a long time. Microsoft must change with technology, the economy and the times in general lest it fall to the same fate of IBM back in the 80's.
On slashdot there are many zealots for the Linux cause. Part of me is still one of those zealots at heart, because I do fancy breaking away from the "borg". I enjoy being part of a subculture that can poke fun at corporate America. I still have a longing to be a "geek" that goes against the grain and hence I will always have Linux installed SOMEWHERE on one of my pc's. I think Linux certainly has proven itself as decent server software but I honestly don't think it will grow too much beyond that unless there is a major change, or even a revolution. The
I guess to sum up all this stuff- I would put it like this. There is a reality and an ideal. Microsoft is the reality. Linux is the ideal. We strive to meet the ideal utopia of free software, open source, and everyone happy. Linux is technically superior and more appealing in many ways. But in reality, we live in corporate America where everyone needs to make money and stay competitive. Microsoft has ushered in the information economy we now live in and will be here to stay for some time. I look forward to the upcoming years to see how this will pan out and continue.
May the Penguin live in all of us while the Borg is all around us.
it is obvious. games. work. generally.
Check out jEdit.org
Meh.
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002.
I admit it. I'm an addict. I need it. And unless MS ports it to Linux (YEAH RIGHT!) I'm gonna play it on MS boxen.
Funny thing is that when I boot into XP to play flightsim I end up doing a handfull of other things (like writing this comment) and never bothering to boot back into Linux. I'll stay in XP for the rest of the night unless I have a specific reason to go back to Linux.
Also something to consider... Don't Opera and a lot of the other Linux browsers allow you to fake out the program and OS sent to the server? I wonder how many people specifically send MSIE/XP to avoid any wierd problems with super-l33t advanced websites that check these things... Might skew your data a little bit.
I'm not trying to say OS "A" has more applications than OS "B". I'm trying to say that the number of applications is a silly and nonsensical argument. It's the kind of application needed that ultimately determines the OS preference.
"And of couse, there are the ever present man pages, oh boy is that ever one of the worst sets of documentation I have ever seen."
Hoha i must be very diffrent person.... man pages is GOD sent!!! All programs have them... they have what i want.. etc etc...
O! and like to use a CLI (Mouse suks)
CIA Factbook 2002 (US):"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households
The university I goto has a deal with M$. I can get win2k cds for $5 bucks, yep $5. XP is $15. There's no excuse not to use windows at all! even though we are required to turn in code/projects that'll compile on msvc++, my home net + laptop is powered by slack and some other unix flavors. I always manage to go to school to port that code to msvc++(ugly).
- The quality of the documentation. Nothing have used under Linux has the quality of documentation that I get with MSDN. Sure there is a much larger quantity of Linux documentation, but very little is of the professional quality that I get from MS. In particular, the quality of integration between the Visual Studio IDE and the MSDN documentation makes me cringe every time I need to fire up Emacs and info (or man).
- The quality of the tools. Last time I checked, Visual C++ still blew the doors off gcc for numerically intensive calculations. Even my Linux-using colleagues have given up on gcc and use closed-source compilers for their numerically intensive work.
- last, but most important, is device-driver support. Sure, Linux r0x0rs with a small subset of mass-market hardware, but try getting esoteric DAQ hardware to run efficiently with Linux...
All this is very frustrating because many of my projects could benefit from something closer to an RTOS than Windows will ever be, and for that I could live with the primitive state of Linux development tools to play with the RT Linux variants, but the absence of hardware device drivers prevents me from even thinking in those terms.one of the biggest pros to using linux is that it's open source nature allows it to be free, but think about how many people don't pay for windows.
i think piracy is actually helping microsoft stay afloat, because if it were extremly difficult to run and own a functional windows OS most people still wouldn't shell out the cash for it. They'd simply see Linux as a much cheaper alternative.
Other program issues are accounting programs in general. Best software (MAS90, ect) is all Windows based for the front end. I would love a good accounting program to run on Linux, in the power class of MAS90. BTW, in can be configured to use MS SQL 7. Don't know if it will work using MySQL.
If you want to get some mid-sized businesses using linux, get some integrated accounting software that is linux based available.
Even a Linux equilivant to PeachTree accounting would go a long way. I had a small retail store that I sold recently. I would love to have used linux. Could not do so. I ran Peachtree for my accounting and did lots of projections with Excel. All of my ads, including Yellow Page proofs, I did in MS Publisher. As hard as I tried, I could not duplicate my Windows software in linux.
Any how, thats my 2 cents.
There isn't anything that comes close
to VC++ 6 or 7 on either OSX, Linux, or
various other Unixe's.
Anyway, don't forget the (absolutely horrid) price of Photoshop.
Though the full version of Photoshop retails for $600, Photoshop without prepress support is called Photoshop Elements, and it retails for $100. GIMP retails for $5 (cost of media and packaging).
Will I retire or break 10K?
The Linux GUI is bloated and slooooow. Don't tell me that all I need is a "decent video card and processor" when I can throw Windows 95 onto a decade old computer and the GUI is fairly snappy, on that same computer Linux's GUI is so horribly slow that it is unusable on that computer. On my computer (GeForce3 & 1.4ghz processor) it is not all /that/ bad, however it is not as snappy as Windows as not *nearly* as snappy as BeOS. After running a decent amount of programs the GUI just slows down to an annoying speed.
I'm not a coder, computer scientist, Linux/*nix expert, etc... so I could be wrong (see: don't piss and moan if you disagree with my opinion), however I blame X-Windows on this.
Whatever it is it needs to be corrected. There are a few framebuffer based GUI systems out there for Linux, but no distro that I'm aware of takes advantage of these GUI's.
Opinion: Why I Use Windows
Some reasons to be OS-agnostic
By Loyd Case
A long time ago, in a career far, far away, I was a UNIX sysadmin. Later, I worked in technical marketing for a line of Unix graphics workstations. I was facile with vi, argued over which shell (Bourne? C-shell?) was best and manually installed early releases of X-Windows. So when people talk to me about Linux, I just sigh. Been there, done that.
Later, as I became more heavily involved in gaming, my home PCs ran MS-DOS and later, Windows 95. I covered the advent of Windows 95 for Computer Gaming World, and looked forward to never having to tweak another memory manager. Sure, Windows and DirectX brought along a different set of headaches, but as native Windows games arrived on the scene, life was good.
So in the end, I'm a Windows user. Note that I don't use the phrase "proud Windows user." That's not out of guilt, but out of pragmatism. I don't call myself a "proud Toyota owner," either. Windows happens to be a product I use that enables me to do other things -- and the things I want to do can't be done on other operating systems. Games are one example, but there are a host of apps I use that simply don't live on Linux, or even the Mac. I have one system here I use for experimenting with Linux, but don't spend a lot of time on it.
"But what about dual boot?" some people have suggested.
Get real. I want to be productive. When I play with Linux, I'd just as soon have a dedicated system. I've used dual-boot systems, and they're more of a hindrance than a help.
In the end, though, I always end up back at Windows. It really has little to do with any love for Microsoft. I don't particularly love Panasonic, either, even though I have Panasonic telephones. To me, the operating system is a useful utility in the same way as electricity or running water is. That doesn't mean I'm enamored of Microsoft's behavior as a competitor in the business marketplace. But then, I'm not happy about the way ADM has behaved in the past, but I still use corn oil.
In the end, it comes down to my own personal bandwidth. I have lots of hardware to cover, and I love covering it. Secondarily, there are a vast array of apps I love exploring, most of which simply don't run on Linux, and many of them aren't on the Mac, either.
I get all the compîlers and apps that I need
on Linux. If I want to program in Delphi
or C Builder there is Borland's Kylix.
There are several compilers for the PC and
embedded app. Linux has some very good
CD burning programs. There are thousands
of good application. I don't find any reason
as to why I should waste space on my computer
for such a moronic OS that windows is.
Why do I still use Windows? Visio, and especially the VNE libraries. No...there is nothing even remotely equivalent in Linux.
Im a student, all the books come with software for windows. Its easy to install windows software all I have to do it double click to install and double click to uninstall.
10 Reasons Why I Use Windows
Speaking of last gasp...
There's one thing the W2K (and I assume XP) people forget is that Microsoft has set it so that you can have an event (reboot that doesn't lock everything hard) that will then take the system back up to a GUI. It's logged, but unless you actually witness it, you'll never know.
Memory serves (I'm not in front of the machine presently) one can Right-click on My computer fish around in there and you'll see the setting for changing that behavior.
* there is no GOOD reason for me to switch
* lots of apps I like are on Windows
* my friends / coworkers use windows
* time is money and linux eats up all my time configuring and fixing the damn thing
* i've had linux crash just as much as Windows
* a million others
I have been trying to make the switch for years
I've learned how to install a few different distributions and compile some software, edit some header files for localization, figure out what libraries are and how to get some if they are needed.. But there is an extreme lack of centralization to find out how things all fit together.. So much time has to be spent to find out just how to do one thing.. much of the time i just want to use the computer as an application for a specific task, you know
How can it be expected that people will use an Operating System, and yes that is a paradigm that has to be focused on
I use linux and windows about 40/60 in that order
Well for those who find it a hobby, it's all great
Yeah building more abstraction layers can create something more prone to errors
windows? linux? free is better and free is extrememly important, to more than just the world of software. But to the writers of code... when you write are you writing just for your certain click or are you thinking of those people trying to migrate.. have a little care, the tower of the elitest will always fall. and there's nothing down here but the earth with, humble farmers and agrarian mystics
I finally managed to wean myself off Windows a few months ago. I just got completely sick of the stupid things that Windows does. I do all my development in Linux now (my boss doesn't mind; it means our code is portable and also, bugs show up more often in two different operating systems). I had to write some software to have a comfortable development environment, and it still needs some work. I find E93 very helpful (www.e93.org), a nice editor, and I wrote the 'DevEnv' plugin to make it more like an IDE. I wish that GCC/GDB worked better together with C++! That's my current biggest gripe with Linux.
1600x1200 resolution with Gnome
over 1 year as main working machine
use it as main development platform and to manage both Linux (via SSH) and Windoze (via rdesktop) servers.
Only have Winbloze at home for games and CAD.
I know GIMP is supposed to take the place of Photoshop.. but what replaces CoolEditPro, SoundForge and Acid? Are there any Linux apps that do sound & music?
nonsig. unsig. desig.
Well, I run both Windows and Linux here. But it seems many people around here have trouble not slamming either Linux or Windows when these sorts of arguments occur. So here's why I use both systems:
Windows is for the parents, and to operate the winmodem. I run Win95osr2 because it was the version I was happiest with, even if it means no USB.
But I prefer Linux. The reason for this is that it goes much better with my style of computer use than Windows. I don't often use desktops, and I don't like a lot of chrome. My biggest concern is that my OS doesn't take up too much RAM when loaded, and that I can navigate easily and quickly using the command line. This is something I have trouble doing with Windows, even with 4NT. One other thing I really like about Linux is that you can stick a stripped down version on a 486, or put on the works for if you have the latest and greatest machine. You can also radically change the way the GUI works, or not use a GUI at all. You can get something like Debian if you're a control freak, or you can install something like Redhat 8 which is actually quite easy to set up and use.
So there =) My point? Er.. world peace on slashdot.org message boards!
Louis
- I'm spoiled by Windows - I want wake up to a GUI, and sleep looking at a GUI on the monitor. I guess BEOS and OSX does that.
- I want to be able to keep track of all of my applications (what can I use? where are they?), the MD5 fingerprints, the dependencies and change/erase either and be able to learn the results quickly. I know about RPM and Debian's own packaging methods, but they're too distribution-specific for me.
- OpenGL-based windowing (like OSX's Quartz Extreme). What can it do for font deuglification efforts?
To a newbie like me, Linux/UNIX is like being blindfolded and pushed around in a mansion on a full bladder. Get rid of the blindfold, and if I end up seeing Fallingwater, I'll be truly grateful right after I run a straight line to the bathroom.I beleive the Xbox has multiplayer internet option.
Xbox Live costs $300 per year: $50/year for the Xbox Live subscription, and $250/year for the upgrade from dial-up Internet access to cable or DSL Internet access, provided that you even have a good cable or DSL provider in your area. If not, you'll have to fork over even more for a fractional T1.
Will I retire or break 10K?
...that perhaps would illuminate the converse side of the problem is "Why did you switch to Linux?" For me, there was one thing: Window XP. I'll freely admit I admire the technology of that OS, but I couldn't disgaree more with its politics. I just bought a laptop from Alienware, and the moment I booted it up, Windows XP up told me I had 30 days to register, lest it disable itself. Give me a break! Just because I purchase a computer does NOT mean the company whose OS I use needs all my personal details. Its absurd. If I decide to change my hardware to any appreciable extent, Windows XP demands and explanation. Again, what is the justification? I know it helps prevent piracy, but I object to it on philosophical grounds.
Which leads to my next question "Why did you stay with Linux?"
Because it offers more power out of the box than $20,000 of proprietary closed source software offers on Windows. Example: I don't always have web access at work for security reasons (military) but I want to be able to read the news. Just last night, I wrote a bash/perl script in about 15 minutes that utilized wget, gzip and sendEmail (a perl smtp script) to automate getting the text page of google news, zip it up, and send it to my work address when I'm out at sea. I put it in my crontab to do it every 12 hours. Match that on windows. Sure, it can be done, but the pure simplicity and ease of it is not there.
Many say Linux doesn't offer anything Windows doesn't have, and that's simply false. Those that say that must have grown up with Windows, and cannot bring themselves (it was hard for me!) to throw all that away and venture forth into the unknown, with no RealLife support (I have no friends that understand Linux, I had to learn it completely on my own, I'm sure many share the same situation). Does Linux take time (vice money with Windows)? Absolutely. But I justify it by assuring myself it will pay dividends down the road, because Linux will always be around; I rest easy knowing there will always be someone somewhere working on it. It will support new architectures, it will adapt and morph to work with anything we develop. I can use the same tricks on my Zaurus, laptop and desktop. All the same software can run on all of them (with slight modifications). I have Perl on the Zaurus, which allows me to script on my handheld with no learning curve, since I've been doing it on my desktop for ages. Why? Because linux is portable, and allowed the porting of Perl from x86 to ARM. Try that with your beloved PocketPC running Windows CE. Windows will not, and cannot, be flexible in this way.
Linux is flexible, free, and filled with intriguing ways to put together various tools to do amazing things. I was a Windows user for as long as it existed, but I could never go back now.
My experience with HPNA (Home Phoneline Network) is 100% why I stick with Windows. I feel it is definitely worth buying a few copies of Windows and a couple HPNA cards instead of rewiring a house for ethernet.
I tried buying a Linksys HPNA card that has Linux drivers, and then bought a copy of Lycoris "with support", and tried to get it working. Ran into problems, never heard back from Lycoris (yea.. money well spent!) and so I gave up and stuck with Microsoft.
I think most people are like me in the willingness to give things a try, but make it too difficult and the money goes somewhere else. And I think most people also aren't too fond of paying for a service and never getting it.
GAMEs, unreal turny is giving me more a reason to move to ditch windows. if OFP client ran under linux i would have ditched windows in a bad way. my laptop is linux as well as my database box and firewall, but i still cant get rid of it on my personal desktop because of my game (and im a lazy fuck so i wont reboot just to play games).
I stay with windows for my games, yet I also use linux. I refuse to update further than Win98se. I also am forced to use windows to get online due to the fact that my area does not have dial-up Linux compatable ISPs. If there where more games for Linux and Juno was compatable with Linux I'd be Linux all the way. Win98se is way too unstable for my liking.
~Dvorak GOTO1 GOTO GOTO
The largest reason I stay on windows is simply because it works.
Yes, its slower to install, yes its take some time to configure and tweak, but once I'm done, I have a functional system that just plain works when I turn it on.
I have tried 3 times (1994 slackware, 1997 Mandrake and 1999 Red Hat) to move to a pure Linux life and found that I had to constantly tweek on this or re-configure that. Each time I just got frustrated with an OS that wouldnt get out of the way and let me do what I wanted to.
Once Windows is configured, its out of my way. I would like to try OSX, but I cant see pushing out the big bucks for proprietary hardware thats overpriced. Not to mention that the one time I did try OSX it was on an iBook and was sloooooooow.
Kevin
That's not the only issue. I have the "Pinnacle Deluxe AV/DV" package as well as a SCSI scanner. Installation was sometimes a bitch. Sometimes drivers wouldn't install. other times hardware would disapper. So every once in awile when I rebooted. The dialog box for "new hardware" would pop-up. SP3 and the latest from Pinnacle's site has helped, but I still occasionally have disappearing hardware. One of the reason's I will not do the slightest to disturb my hardware settings.
And I haven't even gotten into what happens on W2K when you move the cards around on a completely PnP system.
I may be AC but that doesn't mean I'm a dumbass...
----
My reasons for staying on windows are numerous.
1) First of all, people always say windows crashes, its unstable, its bloated, blah blah blah. That may be true, and I have seen instability in the past (win95 anyone?) but to be honest, my Windows 2000 machine is stable as a rock. Never a bluescreen, ever. I think the problem with windows' "instability" is that poorly written 3rd party programs tended to take the OS with it when it crashed. Win2k (maybe XP dunno) seems to be very good at isolating programs from the OS. If a program crashes (which has happened to me) it never takes the OS with it. No main-stream apps have ever crashed though. MSOffice, IE(yes IE), photoshop, etc. all work for me just fine.
2)I like the GUI. Win2K seems well polished. It is functional and helpful but not TOO helpful (like XP is IMO) and its easy to use. Theres keyboard shortcuts for everything (not saying linux lacks this...) and I actually like IE being embedded into the OS. People say this is a horrible thing but isnt this what linux does a lot with integrated web browser/ file manager? Virtual desktops in linux is useful but I downloaded an app to do that in windows. IE is may favorite browser by choice. I am not a zombie who does not explore my options. I have tried opera, mozilla(a few types), etc but IE is the fastest rendering, has the best support, loads the fastest, and the GUI is streamlined. I hate netscapes GUI, its terrible. Opera's tabbed browsing is nice but its just inferior to IE in terms of web site rendering (although opera is my 2nd choice). And for those that say tabbed browsing doesnt exist in IE, and therefore it sucks, well... IE has a self contained activeX control so you can make your own IE with all of the functionality and WITH tabbed browsing with minimal effort. This is what I did.
3) fonts and stuff. face it, linux fonts suck. and I dont want to edit tons of configuration files and mess with all this shit just to get nice fonts on my linux box. Windows already has them.
4) Games. Does this even need to be explained? No, but I can add on to it - there's a ton of software for windows that can do virtually anything. Nix has a lot of software too, but I dont want to mess with configuration files, I dont want to compile/make it just to run it, etc etc. In windows i can download a utility in 5 seconds and run it 'out of the box' instantly. Things are harder, more time consuming, and much more annoying in linux. RPMs dont let me choose where I want to install programs and that REALLY pisses me off. I like the way win2k's file structure works.
5) More gui oriented. This is a personal choice. My personal choice (an opinion, there is no right/wrong) is that I prefer to edit options in a program graphically as opposed to rummaging around in text files(much more common in *nix). I just go to a program's option screen, check/uncheck a few checkboxes etc, and its setup. In linux i have to fish around a 5 page conf file and find and edit the settings.
6) Major software. Face it, linux is almost always behind on major end user software. I'm talking about office apps, imaging programs, etc. Sure Linux tries real hard to have replacements, but they just don't cut it for me. Last I checked open office didnt have spell check! All these big windows apps have a much more polished feel to them than their linux counterparts - like the GUI.
I don't doubt linux's server capabilities and customization abilities. For some, thats a bonus. But for my day to day use of a computer, I prefer windows. Whatever floats your boat I guess. I'm sure a lot of the things I said were good about windows is exactly what others hate about it. To each his own.
Here's a few of my reasons for not using linux:
/usr/bin/local, so it continues using gcc 2.95 when I want it to update to 3.0x. Great. Wasted 12 hours compiling and installing. Whoo. Again, pls.
/bin/sh",tcsh and it had various errors. "set env DISPLAY ....; echo $DISPLAY" would set it, echo would come out right.. it'd work inside the script. Soon as the script exited, the environment var was gone. export was reported as bad command. Great. Never got that one working, either. I also tried copying lines exactly as they were from my .cshrc file, changing the var and contents.. didn't work. Hmm. Worked fine when I ran the .cshrc script, but not mine. How nice. Another inconsistency. Or something. I thought this OS was oh so user friendly now.
... perhaps, if all you expect anyone to do it browse web pages without ssl, check (web based) e-mail, and... yeah. That's about all that ever works. Let me know when I should give it another try. Perhaps I will. But for now, I'm FUCKING SICK OF WASTING MY TIME.
Last version I tried: Gentoo
As it went:
Download stage 1 ISO. Burn it to a cd, pop it in a pentium 200 system with 64 megs RAM and 2 gigs set aside for linux. Get it all done with stage 1, time for stage 2.. fine.. it gets going, problem booting. For some reason, it would just reboot after loading the kernel with lilo. Perhaps it's lilo doing something.. try grub. same. I did a great many things. Never got the kernel working.
Mandrake/suse/etc:
It's been a while (1-1.5 years), but as it normally goes: install, X doesn't work. I can't select a resolution that looks any sort of decent. so I can't see anything, the sides of the screen are curved, etc. USB support just doesn't work, even after reading many many e-mails of others having the same problem, etc.
General:
I wanted telnetd so I could telnet in, compile, install stuff.. so, download inet utils. Great.. downloaded, extracted, make. Error. read online as to what it is, "this error will be fixed in the next release next month." That being from a year prior. So, I find official sites, check a great many sources for it... I have the latest up to date package.
Compiling -- I dunno if I've ever gotten a kernel to compile after doing even the slightest bit of configuration.. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with it, but it just crashes (accepting default on any I completely don't know, after reading the provided help)
Stuff doesn't install -- it always errors on compile or install. And it always installs to
Docs suck ass. "type man!" Man sucks. It assumes you already know exactly how to use it and just need a reference for a reminder. You can't learn to do jack shit with it. Often, you're told by others to read the man page when you don't even know what command, or combination of commands, to use.
Help -- there is none. E-mail lists, IRC, etc, people just insult you and call you stupid. I guarentee you I am not. When it comes to windows, I can do just about ANYTHING I want to it. If I so wished I could program windows components and drivers. Perhaps it would be more difficult, but at least they'd compile and work, unlike on linux.
FreeBSD:
natd:
I set it up, nothing.. didn't work. I believe I typed "route add 141.219.76.1", after trying with various combinations of "default" because it had no default route listed, couldn't access ANYTHING at all, etc. Got a call from sys admin. So, they sent someone over to help out. He said "I dunno why this isn't working..." Hardcore Linux user, but still, the two are quite similar. Eventually he got it working by removing the port forwards that were there. I put the same ones back in later because I needed them, still worked.. NOTHING changed from original. Great.
X:
it's a fucking piece of shit. I CAN NOT get it to work with 1024x768 @85hz. I used every X configuration thing that was pointed out to me, it always defaulted to 1450x1400 resolution. Looked like complete shit. Hit control alt -, it takes it to 256 colors, and the screen scrolls.. smaller screen resolution, X is still running in the higher. Move mouse to side of screen, watch things scroll over...
Eventually, I get it to a 1024x768 resolution. I have no idea how.. one of the X config utilities I think. So, it's running at 60hz.. I'm on KVM, and the image was off the edge of the monitor. Needs to be 85 hz.. so I add a modeline, set up at 85 hz, no other resolution information in the conf file (only refresh ranges for horizontal/vertical). It runs at 75 hz. Still off the edge of the screen. Edit the mode line based on a doc I found and it got moved to the left a bit.. so it worked. It's copied and pasted pretty much exactly from one that was said to be 1024x768@85hz. It ran at 75hz.
That was FreeBSD... after I got my mouse working, which would go up, left, right, but not down (it would say bytes don't match, resetting mouse or something.. could watch the light on it (optical) turn off when I tried moving it down). seems that was moused.. let X use the mouse directly, and it works as PS2 mouse. No scroll wheel functionality. It's am MS Optical Mouse, with 5 buttons and scroll wheel.. intellimouse protocol doesn't work. I had no scroll wheel support. But, that computer is dead right now (non functioning motherboard), so I can't play. But it was actually working for the most part if the only thing I did was browse web pages. That worked sometimes.
With the same FreeBSD box, nothing could connect to it. It could browse the web, ping other computers on the internal lan and internet, but nothing could do anything with it. Couldn't telnet in, couldn't connect to swat, couldn't ping it.. nothing.
Also, I compiled and installed samba on it. That's how I got swat. Funny thing.. KDE kept bitching about me not having smbclient. I looked.. didn't really see it anywhere. Thought that was supposed to be installed with samba. Guess not.
Just today: SunOS (5.8 I think)
I wanted to make a script to set my DISPLAY environment variable. Ok.. simple.
setenv DISPLAY myhost:0
worked great on the command line. Add to script, "setenv command not found." Hrm. Tried various "#!
I guess that's really about all I can think of right now. Quite a bit of SHIT that really shouldn't be happening. In all cases of installing things, I follow instructions to the word. Also doing things many times, never any of it working.
These are my reasons for not (being able) to run a nix. Heh.. Please, let me know when things actually WORK. You all shout "It's more user friendly than windows!"
I know a GREAT, GREAT many others who have exactly the same problems, and other problems that also shouldn't be there, I and actual hardcore linux users verifying the configuration.
-DrkShadow
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If they won't do business on MY terms, they won't do business with me.
Try telling that to the company that provides your electric power, or to any other regulated municipal monopoly. If they require IE for Windows, then you had better buy a computer that can run IE for Windows, or you can't run any computer because you don't have any power.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Every game worth playing
Photoshop
Outlook Express (have to have good IMAP support)
Did I mention games?
Testing my html code in IE easily
mIRC (I know.. not the best reason.)
I said games, right?
A decent IM client. (Trillian is my choice)
MSDN Academic Alliance
Well, they have IE for MacOS's, no?
IE for Mac OS X does not support ActiveX because ActiveX controls are Win32/x86 binaries. Any web site that requires ActiveX won't work on a Mac.
Will I retire or break 10K?
one game in particular: MECHWARRIOR
MECHWARRIOR is also available on the Super NES console. You don't need Windows to run a Super NES game; all you need is either a Super NES or SNES9x.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I've got a PC. ;)), and most importantly I'd be hard-core ridicled by people for switching to Mac. One of the things Mac zealots have done by actling the foolish way they have is made it socially impossible to switch to using a Mac unless you want to constantly laughed at like some sort of repeatative Groundhog Day fiest.
Mac hardware where I live is shockingly expensive, wouldn't run most of the useful software I would want it to (except one game I've got which is a dual-system CD
BeOS is dead. There's lots of software, but it simply isn't what I want and I don't think it supports either of my soundcards.
Linux... that's an emotive word around Slashdot. No matter however any geek trys to brush it up, Linux simply isn't a desktop OS. It's dog slow without some 1331 system-specific compiling tricks and optimisations, which I neither can be bothered with nor could hope to fully understand without swatting for a month solid, it is full of config scripts which make many a person's eyes glase over, and I simply don't feel secure in running a system which I can't properly have control of. Linux may be stable when run from a command-line, but put badly designed KDE or bog awful Gnome into the mix and it becomes less stable than Windows 95... I know people delude themselves into thinking they're stable, but they're not. I'm not a computer idiot and I've tried different setups & the like, and that's simply the way they are. Go without a windowmanage or use something like Windowmaker / Fvwm2 you say? They're nice, but they're not for me at all. The Q.A. in commercial distros is probably worse than in Microsoft nowadays... Lycoris was released with a bug/mistake in the Fstab config file which corrupts Fat32 partitions on your hard-drive... delightful stuff trying to retrieve data from smashed partitions. Anyway, I'm convinced that if you want a reliable, well-setup Linux system, Slackware is almost the only way to go... if only I could make it work with my hardware and at least half understand it.
And when I get to the 4th on this list, I realise there isn't one. There simply isn't a single decent desktop OS for the x86 platform (except BeOS, but it's largely unusable). What is one to do? I seriously wonder if I'll go rabid and make my next computer an Amiga or Acorn just to have an OS that crashes less often than the hardware and *just works*.
If you want people to switch away from Windows, either Linux is going to need one heck of a redesign-thumping and change of attitude among the developers or there'll need to be a new OS designed specifically for the desktop. There are such efforts , but very few programmers take any interest in them - this is the fundamental problem with free software - most programmers make software suitable for their use, and not for the use of others.
Nothing beats unices at servers tasks. Go figure what's wrong with a NT/2000 box! For the userland GUI, Windows is the thing since it's been designed for users, and PCs are build with MS in mind.
I know nobody will get to read this post, but I thought I could add to up this story in the hall of fame =)
have you been defaced today?
Once upon a time, Back in the day......
I had a mac, they laughed at me, it had no CLI.
so i tryed linux, then they laughed at me some more!
So then i installed windows. and they shut the F*** up!
the double helix
doublehelix_nz@hotmail.com
I've been online for 3 min now after upgrading my SuSE install to 8.0. The main thing that was keeping me back was the winmodem issue. But after a trip to linmodems, I'm up and running. A bit easier than I thought it would be.
I use Linux 97% of the time, but there are some websites that need Internet Explorer - not even Netscape 7.0 will suffice. Typically they are banking websites - if I contact the helpdesk they just say "Linux, no we don't test on Linux; it's not widely used.". But I need to use these banks.
That's a $60/yr MS tax on a higher education on top of the $5 media fee.
To make matters worse, when they singed on to the Microsoft Campus Agreement, the infotech department dropped support for all non-MS products. I guarantee that you and your fellow students are getting royally screwed. The DOJ let those monopolist bastards off way too easy.
sm
(No, I don't care if it's redundant. I'm being asked why, so here's my answer. I'm also not trying to be flamebait or a troll, FYI)
Right now, I'm using RH8 to type this message. I've also tried Red Hat 7.3, 7.2, Mandrake 9, 8.2 and 8.1, FreeBSD (something) and OpenBSD (something). A far cry from someone who cares, but I still figure that I can't say anything without personal experience, and besides, if I can get an OS legally for free, why not try it? I might just go back to Win2k for serveral reasons, many of which are also why I don't use a Mac: my hardware just doesn't work on Linux. My Lexmark X83 does not work and my sound card sounds like shit, not to mention I can't even get MIDI out of the card. Also, there are standards in Windows as far as installation is concerned -- there's an add/remove control panel to conveniently add and remove programs. After about three hours I got my video card working so I don't have that evil, strobing 60 Hz. Wine is very imperfect. Yeah, there's the catch-all "if it's so important, do it yourself and stop whining." I'm not whining. I'm saying that I'd rather pay $100 for a less stable but easy-to-use and perfectly compatible Windows system than nothing for a system that half the time doesn't compile downloaded software right and more than likely won't install my hardware.
By far I can't say that I'm an expert in the field, but I know what I likes and I know what I dislikes. I dislikes people telling me that what I'm using sucks, yet letting me be on my own to figure out why and what I should do about it, and how to deploy it once I've figured out what to do about it.
Windows sucks!
Okay, what should I do about it?
Use (Linux | *BSD | whatever)!
Okay...
(later)
How do I-
(RTFM | Fix it yourself | Ask someone else)!
So that's why I use Windows.
- Dane
Danish != nationality
Hmmm... VB competitor?
Try Realsoftware. Their realbasic product is shaping up pretty well.
Mac OS/OS X and Windows.
It's inhabiting the VB space on cross platform.
Btw: they're currently considering adding other platform targets.
And they wonder why people get discouraged from using Linux...
Until Symantec makes PCAnywhere for Linux, I'll have to run Windows at work and on my work computer at home. Dual booting is out of the question - imagine explaning to my boss that I had to close my six SSH windows, my web browser, and my E-mail program so I can reboot to Windows to use PCA to fix a two minute problem, then switch back to Linux to continue doing my work.
And running PCAnywhere under VMWare for Linux is...problematic. Certainly not reliable enough (last time I tried it) to rely on it working when I'm going to need it.
Yes, I know about VNC, et al. I don't need something _like_ PCAnywhere. I need _PCAnywhere_.
I don't need it to be free. I just need it to exist.
This is because I am free
And I can create things
And I am optimistic about the world
There is an exchange client for Mac. Microsoft doesn't advertise it very often but it comes with Exchange and costs exactly the same as a Windows license.
It amazes me sometimes that I am one of the few people who really seems to say anything about a couple issues I have with OS X. I've never really used Windows, so I can't say how much of this it suffers. Anyway, I just wonder if anyone else cares about these issues at all.
:-/
Quick background: I've been using Macs since the 128K Mac back in 1985. I've purchased 5 Macs. Even so, I've never really been a Mac power user. I've used a Sun as my primary desktop at work since 1988. I love Unix. I'm attempting to become happy with my G4 with Jaguar as my desktop box at home. I've been using Linux as my desktop at home for the past couple years (until Jaguar came out).
1) Click to Focus - yuck! I hate click to focus. I ALWAYS use Focus Follows Mouse. I find all the extra clicks to be wasteful.
2) Auto-Raise - This paired with the first issue makes it impossible to overlap windows and type in a window that isn't on top. Anyone who doesn't understand this issue probably doesn't use a cmdline very often.
3) Send Window to Back - Basically, having the ability to do this allows you to have a stack of windows, and cycle through them easily. I'm not a huge fan of the dock. I just want to be able to hit a keystroke and get to the window I'm looking for. I shouldn't necessarily need to use the mouse to get to it.
4) Open File dialog - I agree with you! I can't figure out what they're trying to do with that.
5) Terminal - This stupid @$%#$%!& app swallows the PgUp/PgDn keys and just "helpfully" scrolls the terminal window for me. What if I'm running an application IN the terminal window that I need to send these chars to??? Even the old dialup programs used to have special buttons or menus to send any characters they swallowed for any interface reasons.
6) Mail - The other night I was trying to attach a photo to a mail message, and when I double clicked the folder in the dialog box so I could click on the pic to attach, the application decided that I must mean that I wanted to attach the whole freaking 178MB folder to my email message!!!! After listening to my disk do the dance of joy for about 12 minutes, I just power-cycled it so I could get back to work. The one time I wanted to be annoyed by a dialog box asking me if I was sure I wanted to do something, and there was none.
7) iTunes and iPhoto - Both of these apps have the same "feature". When you tell iTunes to add songs to the list of songs in your library, it COPIES the song files from the dir where they are into your home directory!! I worked around this with symlinks, but this is stupid. Even if I hadn't partitioned my disk such that iTunes filled one up with this feature, I still wouldn't want 2 copies of all those songs on my drive. I guess they figure that I've never ripped a CD before I loaded Jaguar, and that none of my family members like the same songs that I do.
8) File system view - What can I say here? The fact that the effective root directory from the GUI and from the cmdline are different is just insanely confusing. IMHO, this is made even worse if you partition the drive.
All that said, I think I like OS X better than 9, but I struggle to like it as much as using X on Unix. Perhaps 10.3 or 10.8 or 11.0 will be more to my liking.
IMHO,
Michael
It used to be only one reason, but now there are two.
.Net) is just not a consideration for me as it only leads to problems later down the road. The only acceptable standards are the open ones.
1. I have one game I *really* like and it's Winsucks only: America's Army: Operations. I have other Winsucks games, but most will either be ported to Linux, have been, or aren't that great (to me), so I don't play them anymore.
2. I started back to school a couple months ago to complete my MSCIS and MAED degrees. There are many presentations required and they use Power Point at the university. Now if I had a laptop I could use Star Office and plug the laptop into the projector at school, but I don't (I don't count the old Toshiba P-90 I have). I do use Star Office to write all my assignments, including the slide presentations,and save them in M$ formats (Word and PPT). Maybe some day the school will follow suit like some others and allow alternatives and teach Linux.
Other than that, I use RH Linux (on more than 11 machines here at my home). Everything I need to do, I can (and do) do with Linux. I too am a developer and I can develop complex, reliable, fast, and platform independant applications fast using Linux. In fact, development under Linux is much faster and easier than it has ever been under ANY Winsucks OS (been there, done that, for many years). Conforming to M$ standards (such as
There have been times (very many of them) that I have been one mouse click away from scrapping Winsucks completely due to installation, configuration, and other BS issues that I have never had with any recent version of Linux. I certainly will not upgrade from Win98 SE, no matter how good any game for XP might be.
PGA
i was ready to make the switch to linux completely when i first got my hands on corel linux, which is still class as one of the best distro's ever, but unfortunately i had a winmodem, and what was the point if i couldnt get on the net. Now i have a duel boot system, mandrake 9 and xp. and i use each about 50% of the time. I prefer linux, and the 50% of the time i am in windows is when firstly, someon e else is doing work on the computer at the same time, (the family doesnt seem to take to linux), or when no one is home and i can crank my speakers, because they are digital only, and there are no currently working drivers for my soundcard to provide digital out =-(, so those are the only two reasons i ever have to use the devils own...
eeno
schnell just lit a match in a room full of gas
I'm getting into this discussion late so this may be redundant, but there's a few points I wanted to emphasize.
I have a feeling most people here log in from work, most companies still use Windows because making the switch still requires a lot of work and in many cases isn't possible. As Unix Admin and someone responsible for creating cheaper open source equivlents, this issue is ever present. So here's a few things we would need to switch.
- An e-mail client that can seemlessly replace Outlook. Evolution's connector can only support one mailbox at a time. Shared mailboxes are out so for those using it for a helpdesk solution are still stuck. Though I'm looking for a 3rd party web app to replace this.
-Jinitiator. Linux can't run Oracle apps needing Jinitiator, which is pretty ridiculous as you can run Oracle server on it.
-MS Office. Yes OpenOffice is *almost* there, but not quite. You still can't do pivot tables in Calc, some advaced Word formatting (and some basic like bullets) can't be displayed correctly.
Those are probably the biggest ones. I still use Linux at work (and OS X at home), but when a company has been raised from the ground up on Windows, Linux isn't quite there in terms of replacing it completely. I have a feeling it will be within the next 5 years. Exciting times.
First, I've got four 'main' computers.
1. AthlonXP based desktop running Windows XP Professional.
2. Sony PictureBook notebook running Windows XP Professional.
3. Power Macintosh G3 (beige) running Mac OS X 10.2.2
4. Xeon based server running Windows XP Professional (for now.)
I've got a hardware router/firewall, so I don't need to worry (very much) about those kind of exploits (I still run Norton Internet Security, though.)
Why do I run WinXP? Well, I'll start with my desktop:
First: I'm lazy. I know a little about UNIXes, but not enough to run my own box effectively. I do have 'study guides', but I haven't found time to actually study.
Second: I am a Microsoft Excel wizard. I can do amazing things without resorting to Visual Basic, but I know that most of my formula writing knowledge only applies to Excel, and I love making spreadsheets for all sorts of random things. So, I've tried using a couple other spreadsheet programs, and none work with all of my formulas. (I have a completely handwritten 12MB spreadsheet; it has all sorts of funky 'tricks' that don't translate very well.)
Third: I play a couple games that are Windows-only. Specifically, Microsoft Flight Simulator, and Combat Flight Simulator. For obvious reasons, this is only available for Windows.
Fourth: I really do like the Windows XP interface. I am not a big fan of Microsoft, the company, by any means, but I really do like XP.
Okay, then my notebook: Simple: I have no basically no choice.
Then, the PowerMac: Well, it *IS* running OS X. In fact, it doesn't even have an OS 9 System Folder on it! I've dabbled with it's BSD core a couple times, most notably when trying to make it become a serial port ppp server for my Newton.
Finally, the most obvious choice for an alternate OS: My server...
In all reality, I do plan on putting Linux on this box. I just got the computer a couple weeks ago from a friend, and had to put XP on it, just to compare it to my Athlon XP. (The Athlon XP is a single processor 1.46GHz, the server has two 700MHz Pentium III Xeons, I wanted to compare the speed difference.)
Then, I went and got two cards: An Adaptec ASC-19160, and an Adaptec AAA-UDMA. (The SCSI card I've had for a long time, I just recently gave up SCSI in my main box; the RAID card I got from the same friend who gave me the server.) Unfortunately, neither has official Linux support, and there doesn't appear to be ANY way to get the AAA-UDMA to work in Linux. (Heck, the RAID card doesn't even have XP drivers, so I'm thinking of installing Win2k Server, but then the SCSI card won't work, because it doesn't support the 'server' versions of Windows!)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
As a software engineer that works in both Microsoft and the Unices, I think on top of the standard "user interface argument" and the standard "has no app X" argument, there a more indirect reason that may be the root of why people stay with Windows. I think it boils down to the vast support of the Microsoft's Component Object Model.
Yes Microsoft COM.
Think about this. Since it's introduction in circa 1994, COM has evolved into Microsoft's key development strategy. COM (along with ActiveX, Automation, etc) usually present in every viable Microsoft application:
Active Documents - VB Automation, Drag and Drop, Object embedding and linking.... Every feature in Microsoft Office and Internet Explorer that user's desire is implemented using COM.
Active Scripting - ASP, VBScript, J(ava)Script, PerlScript, PythonScript... All of them are COM and Automation based.
DirectX - The foundation for gaming graphics in Windows is a set of COM interfaces.
/. about this topic.
With all this foundation that Microsoft has provided, the amount of support applications and components grew. Therefore, it indirectly translates into the easy user interface or the support for different applications reasons given here on
Even though COM and Automation might be a cause of all the Outlook script viruses out there, I think that people are willing to stick with Windows despite that Windows may be insecure in those matters. The benefits of COM seem to outweigh it's disadvantages.
Coderz 4 Life
A big bunch of flaccid vegetables. Thats slashdot users. All talk. No action.
.. a global IME as good as that in W2k/WinXP. I know bits of Thai, Chinese and Japanese, and would really like to be able to type all these languages into the same document without messing around with three different input programs.
Truth be told, I'd also like the IME to be easy to set up, and usable without having to switch the locale and having everything change languages. I installed Redhat 8 a couple of days ago, and it came with a nice Gnome Language panel applet that should give me Thai Kedmanee support. Shame it doesn't seem to do anything by default; xcin is also on here, as is kinput2, but there was nothing obvious telling me about the existence of these programs.
"2) if not, what's keeping you from 'putting your money where your mouth is' - why are you using Windows?"
Who says we suport other O/S's,
the main page is
***
Slashdot
News for Nerds. Stuff that matters.
***
This is not a linix mailing list,
or an open source discussion group..
not every nerd out there suprots linux
or open source.
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
Because I'm a whore and I like to suck Bill Gates' dick!
I ask, What keeps people away from Linux?
The question is about mass acceptance, not about theoretical supremacy.
Arrogance: If someone wants to do something, they are expected by a large portion to do thorough research and have a working knowledge of the issues before asking for assitance. Otherwise little help or sympathy is available.
Lack of Portability: Try using sane, a supposedly portable version of scanner software for UN*X originally written in Linux. Here is an example from the man page sane umax pp:
1- ECPEPP will only work if you use a 2 4 kernel with ppdev character device support.
2- This backend does support parport sharing only if you have a kernel with ppdev support.
3- Note that if you are using a Kernel 2 2 x or better, the first parallel port is named lp 0 regardless of the base address. However, this backend requires the base address of your port. If you are not sure which port your scanner is connected to, have a look at your etc modules.conf.
The author has not made or documented the slightest effort of portability and it seems that the author is completely oblivious to systems other than intel on linux.
Liberalism: Do not assume that others are willing to be caught up in the political tension of linux or have a desire to use such a political product. Being an extreme political statement at least in the United States will limit acceptance.
Interaction:In Windows after clicking on help you are asked how you would like to optimize a searchable database. Why is one looking for help delayed with a question about database management?
When one wishes to modify a system it is usually to alter the capabilities of it and not focus on the process of modifcation. A desire to print leads to printer installation. Printer installation should primarily facilitate a desire to print and not an intellectual journey. Quiz questions and intentional tricks on the reader addresses an issue not sought. Education should be seperate from these type of utilitarian processes and serves as a hinderance otherwise.
GPL: Because of the GPL source is the only way that software is offered some times which forces someone that wants to use a program be temporarily prevented from doing so to compile code. So much competition is encouraged by the GPL that confusion is caused by the dozens upon dozens of almost identicle choices that are available.
Lack of adequate clones:
I am referring to that which is seen as a paradigm: Word, Excel, standard keyboard layout et cetra. A clone is an alternate application of a paradigm without intention of subversion. To America Online users a pure ISP is not a adequate replacement for America Online because it does things in a different frame of thought. The paradigm subversive nature of Linux related projects can lead to a large gap perhaps as a result of developer rebellion or arrogance.
Support: To most a computer is like a car. If a car is broken most people don't seek to fix it themselves. Yet this or using the local Linux Users Group is encouraged in the Linux community. To those that see a computer the same way as a car an established brick and morter place is preferred.
Judging from the number of replies to this story (2259 at last count), I would assume quite a bit, especially considering the unusually high number of non-troll posts.
And I'll give you the first two: Firewalling is one, Qmail is one, Apache runs on Windows, PostgreSQL runs on Windows, and that's the only things that are worth a pinch of shit on a Linux box. Windows has better accounting packages, better graphics and video packages, better sound packages, better CAD packages, better development suites, better everything. Couple that with better support (RTFM flames on mailing lists are *not* support), and much easier to use software... guess who wins in the office every time. X is getting pretty damned stable, KDE and Gnome are starting to be marginally useful, but they're still franticly playing catch-up. If MS would sit still for a couple years, one of them might even make it. There still wouldn't be any useful apps, though. And I'll stick with a real unix for my servers, I had one Solaris box that ran for 9 years before it was shut down (it was retired and replaced, it didn't break). Linux crashes and dies when the uptime rolls over to 0 on day 497. That may impress a bunch of kiddies, but it isn't nearly reliable enough for everything. It's a hobby OS, it's fun to dick around with, it's useful for learning real unix basics, but it's not a lot of use when it's time to get serious work done.
If I was in charge of a business or government office (or even the library I work at), and needed reliable multiple office workstations with word processing and network connectivity I'd buy a bunch of cheap duron rigs and get someone qualified to install all of them with redhat or mandrake. There's also no point in spending 300 on a constantly changing ms office format when openoffice is there. My philosophical sympathies as well as my financial sympathies are with open source. That said, from a personal point of view:
I ran a dos BBS back in the days before the internet was widely accessible. I remember when I first got on the net in 95 or so, i had to use a shell account. I remember using pine, lynx, finger, gopher, archie, telnet, zmodem, ymodem, all that. Coming from dos it made sense but was still unfamiliar. Then I discovered slirp and windows 3.11 and windows 95, went to tucows and got netscape (I was always in the netscape camp), eudora, viewed some pr0n, got flamed on alt.magick.chaos, screwed around on undernet with mirc, etc, all the while dodging blue screens left and right, until my brother fuxx0r3d the partitions during a slackware install, toasting all my documents, my whole new website I had been working on for a while, all the research I was doing for school, etc. It pissed me off.
Then for a couple of years, 1997-2001, I didn't own a computer. I didn't have too much money. I learned a little about the most current hardware from the library where I now work, checked out some books, sniffed around the anandtech forums for deals, bought a copy of windows 2000 oem, a duron, a stick of 128 ram, a kt133a board, a 30 gig drive, cheap 8 meg video card, and shoved it all in a case and installed. The whole thing cost $350. Then I connected to the net and d/led all the drivers and service packs through a cable modem. DL'ed Mozilla, napster and then gnutella clients, played diablo 2, got a webcam so me and my wife could videoconference with my family who live 2 hours away, voice over ip, installed a tv tuner, did video capture off cartoon network, turned em into vcd, scanned a bunch of articles in from academic journals for school research, all normal everyday fun things you do with a win box. I love self configuring devices that automount and turn on and stuff when i stick them in the drive or the usb port. No IRQ problems. I especially like it when I plug in a device and I don't even have to install a driver.
I was screwing around on the net and reading slashdot and decided to try my hand at installing red hat, my first distro try. My first impression was that it loaded ok, but there was no sound, and every app was named incomprehensibly, starting with Xblah or Kblah or Gblah. There were some odd messages during boot, I think some of my hardware wasn't working correctly, and I could make no sense of the directory structure, nautilus was confusing. And why were there so many apps? What did they all do? How much editing do I need to do? It seemed as if too much of my system was stuffed with somebody's mother's brother's cousin's friend's betaware v.03 text editor/mp3 player/ghostscript whatever program which someone incorporated as a dependency. There was some picture of what appeared to be a stinky foot where the start button is on win. I thought, ok let's install Mozilla, it worked! then I tried to get java 2 to work, which led me into my first command line nightmare. Immediately followed with quicktime, the sound problem, and by this time I decided say what the hell, let's try to find some simple how to's on the net, which told me at some point told me to edit something called "foo"? by typing those two magick letters VI, how the fuck do I get out of this PReHiSToRiC MoNGo PRoGRaM!!@!!! Hard reset.
All right it wasn't that bad... I want to stick a cd in the drive and have the application install. It's a royal pain in the ass problem trying to get "normal" stuff like java to work right in mozilla, those things could have been done in 5 minutes on a windows machine. They probably take less time on a mac, but macs dont have reasonably fast $350 duron systems. I don't want to spend all day screwing around with the OS, I want to run programs. I mean I know I could take several months to learn the OS ins and outs via command line and a few years learning to write my own drivers...?! The command line is currently relied upon too much and is consequently a prehistoric nightmare rather than the efficient expert's tool it yearns to be.
I've upgraded somewhat and and running on an oem xp pro (which is cheaper than my new video card). I had to flash the bios to get xp to install which wasn't a big problem. I like the application compatibility mode. It doesn't blue screen. Installation of new apps is easy. (So is updating with new security patches). More importantly, it allows me to run openoffice, winamp, mozilla, gnucleus, gimp, my copy of diablo 2, return to castle wolfenstein, console emulators, connect my visor, view dvds, and no, it doesn't crash. I don't like the fact it asks me for money sometimes, and I know sometimes in the middle of the night it calls home to some microsoft server, and I know there's a lot of bundled crap (some distros have a lot too though...), but yes, it is a more-than-decent OS from an ease of use and compatibility and stability standpont. I will continue to screw around with linux but it is not ready for me to use as a primary OS yet. I support open source and use open source applications, and I have had the chance to use some *NICE* linux installs on friend's computers (maybe I'll try Mandrake next time, and I like KDE), but all those friends are computer science majors... Someday I'll switch but not today, I have too much to do. I'll pay the $130 and be done with it. That's what I make in a day and a half.
I work in a Microsoft only shop. We are an integrator that develops systems for manufacturers. The single most important technology we deal with are OPC (OLE for Process Control) servers, which are a Windows only technology. With .NET, I can create a client to connect to the OPC server, get the status of the machine, and relay that information to our MES and ERP systems.
Once Mono reaches a full, stable release, I'll be able to switch over to developing under Linux. Mono will allow me to interoperate with the components on a Windows application server, which we will still need to run the OPC server, but the client will now be able to run on any machine.
Until Mono is ready, I'll continue to use Ant, Vim, and Visual Studio.
Protel doesn't support Linux, but a few people have claimed to get it running under WINE.
I manage IT for an advertising firm. Most of the clients in the company are Apple computers, although we have one whole department that runs Windows because no other platform has good software for media buying. I'm in charge, so I can run whatever I want for my own machine... I run Mac OS X.
Most of my important work is done on Linux. But when it comes to what I run on the notebook I carry around, I really do want what Apple provides with their digital hub concept. I want a great IMAP client, an address book that will sync between my computers, my phone, my Palm and at the same time access LDAP directories, and the ability to plug in a digital camera or scanner and just have it work.
The reason I use OS X instead of Windows is that on top of that, OS X supplies a bona fide bash prompt for me, from which I can do things like run ssh the real way (I get so tired of trying to do an scp with some stupid GUI tool) and use shell and perl scripting to process data.
In OS X, there is the CoreMIDI API, which is the best MIDI API available on any platform (and I've written MIDI apps for most platforms that matter).
I think that there is a paucity of cheap sequencers for the Mac (as the original poster laments) because people who use the Mac for audio are typically doing professional work and need something like Logic, not Cakewalk or some other toy. It's also possible (and floated around the rumor mills) that Apple will come out with a music iApp soon, given their acquisition of emagic, which would take care of the low end of the market.
In any case, the CoreMIDI API includes a great sequencing engine, and it's just a matter of tacking a good GUI on to get a functional sequencer. As I state in another post, this has been done.
Quite honestly, I gave it a fair shake.
I'm writing this on RH right now, but frankly, I got sick of having to become an expert in the most obscure packages, libraries, and concepts, and management, and security, and filesystem heirarchies, and where to find more manuals, and what a socialy acceptable way to perform the fix.
If a piece of software doesn't work, why do I have to find out which library is dependant on which version of another library, and when I install a binary, why the heck do I have to downgrade a compiler, and if dependencies are met, it could be something retarded like an unorthodoxed port the software uses which my firewall blocks.
Oh, and to live up to this thread's title....
Stop with the attitude already. If I hear RTFM one more time, when I damnwell read the fucking manual, I'm going to snap.
I still don't know how to set up my printer :)
I stole this Sig
Windows does whatever I want it to do. I used Linux exclusively in the Win95/98 days but when Win2000 came out I was re-converted and I switched back. I know I had them but I can't remember the last time I had 'dll hell' in windows, but it seems half of the apps in Linux have missing dependencies, and I don't have the patience to spend an evening to track them down. Yes, urpm works wonders, but it is just another step I want to avoid. I have a finite amount of time in my life, and unlike Gimpy from The UnderGrads, I don't sit in front of a computer 24/7.
This isn't really a reason to not use Linux, but it certainly is discouraging. The linux users on IRC or newsgroups are less than helpful by large. You ask a question about how to set X,Y, or Z up, and the typical response is "You're too stupid to use Linux, go back to point-and-click-windows" Now I'm not saying every linux user is like this, but WTF are are you doing on #LINUXHELP if you aren't there to help any user with any problem? It seems too many ppl forget that 'startx' or 'ls -a' was unknown to everyone at one time, yet seem so smug that they know it now.
Not all apps I use in windows can I find in linux. There are no photo cataloging apps for linux that save thumbnails and photo info the way I want. I have tried them all but found them to be lacking in features or unstable, and no, I don't want to run webserver/php just to cataog my pics like so many apps require. I am writing my own app so maybe this deficiency will be removed soon. Openoffice is great, but 40 seconds to startup and open a word doc is kinda ridiculous considering Word does it in 4 seconds.
Radeon 9700 Pro. Need I say more? Windows drivers have been available since the card was released. Linux drivers? Maybe the next version of XFree86 will support it, maybe not.
I like Linux and wish I could convert to it. It is amazing how much it has advanced in the last five years, but the apps need a bit of work. Yes, it's the apps! I don't care what the kernel does, but if it can't support a slide scanner that window supports then I have to stick with windows.
See Walmat.com...
SEriously, its awsome ;-)
That and I can log in remotely to perfectly good linux boxes at the University when I need to run something on linux, or compile it on linux.
There arent any desktop programs on linux that there is not a better, or equivilant program on windows that can be had for a little bit of searching.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
I'm sticking with windows xp because its available online for *free*
The fonts in KDE look blurry and it is generally ugly to look at. It just still isn't there in terms of a nice user interface. As much as I hate Windows, the UI is very nice. And that's about the only good thing I can say about Windows. I will ditch Windows when it gets a UI as good as BeOS. I still use it and develop in it, but for surfing, email, word processing, general use, I will use Windows.
I can't stand MS's marketing machine or the company's philosophy, period. But, my 'religious' convictions aside, I go with the solution that makes sense. To me, MS was the best solution for what I wanted to do for a long time (software development, games, surfing, etc.) It seems whenever I tried an alternative (Mac, Linux, BeOS) it was great stuff, but fell down somewhere (usually documentation, compatibility or available applications/drivers).
:) I'll pay $300 for something that works over $150 for a feature-bloated piece of crud. That's just common sense (if there is such a thing). I don't move away from MS because of spite, but because there's something better. Real choice. Feels good.
This is changing. MS has a tendency to ram 10K features down your throat and then convince you this is what you need to be productive. When people take a superficial analysis, it looks like MS has the best solution. But when you start USING their solution, its not all its cracked up to be. Two cases in point:
I used a Palm as my PDA of choice for about 3 years. I admit I was seduced by the iPaq after what I felt was only marginal progrerss by Palm over that 3 year span. Oh man. Seven months of hell. Freezing, battery problems, sluggish, monster footprint... the list goes on. I never EVER used anything like the Media Player or Terminal services. Ergh. So I sold it and got a Tungsten T with the proceeds. It took all of 10 minutes to adapt to a device that, while may appear to have lesser specs, has an order of magnitude better usability. Thanks Palm.
Second (and perhaps most amusing to me) is that I'm typing this on the 1Ghz PowerBook G4 I bought 4 hours ago (I still can't believe I did that). I was playing with an Apple in a store that just opened in PA and couldn't put the thing down. So for the first time since my IIgs (which I still use) I bought a new Apple. Awesome. I'm eyeing up a desktop Apple for the middle of next year.
As an aside, I do Java development. I use Eclipse daily as my IDE of choice, and JBOSS as my app server of choice. ANT has no equal. These tools are solid, friendly, and stable. They work.
So I guess obstacles up to this point were usability, applications and documentation. Ok, and games
Is "Because Windows is the Standard" an acceptable answer?
As a poor, lazy college student with video games, drinking, trying to keep a long-distance high school residue relationship together, and keeping myself in honors standing in mind, I use XP and 2000 as much as possible. This is for several reasons: 1. I don't have the time to twist Linux's arm to make it work with my existing pile of hardware. 2. Our one Linux user (of ~28 computers total: 1 OS 9, 1 OS X, one Linux/2K dual boot, one god-awful copy of ME, and the remainder NT derivatives) on the floor is always late in joining games because he must boot into 2K before he can join us. 3. Much of the software used on campus and distributed in textbooks is written exclusively for Windows (with the exception of the Maple CAS) and I am not willing to sacrifice spectacular study aids to say that I am not feeding the Microsoft machine. 4. NT is stable. Period. Any difference between Linux and NT in terms of workstation stability on my level of use (fairly high) is negligible, and I have managed to crash both repeatedly. 5. When I allow someone to use my machine, I don't want to have to teach them a new OS; I want them to get their assignment done or get AIM images from their friends or whatever is necessary as quick as possible. 6. IMHO, the Linux desktop is not NEARLY in the same generation of development as its server. Oh yeah and I'm a Chemistry Pre-Med major (everybody thinks I'm in CS) if it matters.
RTFM
Seriously, I'll take corporate thugs anyday over Linux users' attitudes.
GNU/Linux probably has more; it definitely comes with more on the CD. Yet, I still wouldn't use the language "I use GNU/Linux because it has more applications", I'd say "...because it comes with powerful, familiar applications for programming and graphics"
When people write, "It doesn't have enough applications," what they mean is, "It doesn't have the applications I want." "Familiar" and "Powerful" are not good enough. An app may be both familiar and powerful, but if it's isn't Aftereffects (and if Aftereffects is what people want, for the sake of argument), then [non-Windows OS] won't suffice. I'm talking about people on a grand scale, not on a small scale.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
So far though XP hasn't been bad, VERY few crashes (like 5 in about four months, three of which were EndNote's fault).
This is XP's fault, not EndNote's fault. A user-space program should never cause the OS to crash. Hardware? Yes, possibly. Programs? Never. Anything less is a flaw in the OS design. People are still way, way, way too forgiving of Microsoft for their lackluster design.
At least, this is my opinion. Am I being to hard on Microsoft?
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Microsoft knows that if they can dominate in one specific area which a user needs, they can ultimately dominate the user. For me, that specific area is games. While I use Linux quite often, I find myself not bothering to boot to it after playing a game in Windows. Linux is simply not an OS for gamers, and I am a gamer.
That aside, there also exist a great many annoyances with the various Linux GUIs, the most significant of which (for me) is the lack of comparable integration among pieces of software, even in KDE (the king of integration in Unix). Further, often applications will "work just fine" and "look just fine", but only after significant configuration. Mozilla's fonts, for example, look absolutely terrible until I tweak the hell out of it (which I needn't do with Mozilla in Windows).
Further, Linux still lacks Photoshop, which the GIMP is simply not a replacement for.
That said, Linux allows me to get much of my work done faster than I can do it in Windows because of its modular design (pipe output from this to that, filtered through foo and sorted by bar), but the fact that I can do all of my work in Windows and game is probably the biggest item holding me from pure Linux.
And no, WineX is not a worthwhile option. I don't play brainless games that it supports well like Diablo 2 and Quake, and I finished Deus Ex and others it supports well a long time ago.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
Its about the eye candy.
I like a gui to check my email.
I havent seen a pretty GUI email client for *nix yet.
I like eudora (tm) for windows (tm)
If anyone could point out a GUI email client
like eudora(tm) I may change my desktop to *nix.
Well that and IRC I dont like any of the IRC clients for *nix. Im too lame to learn the ctl key
shortcuts. ie: open a new window etc.
Those of you bashing the GIMP ... what, exactly, do you think that it is missing? Do you really know that what you need is missing, or have you just not bothered to look in the menus?
I can't help but wonder if this is one of those "it doesn't look exactly like my old stuff, so I hate it" syndrome. I *love* the GIMP interface. Get the damn menus out of my way unless I want them.
I've been using Linux for a few months -- switched over to using it as my main machine. For the most part, I find it more productive than Windows.
However, often, for one reason or another, I want to run something on windows. For example, I like the screen magnifier which comes with Visual C. So, I have 2 monitors on my desk -- one is Linux and one Win2k. With Samba, I have a pretty seamless connection between them. I often compile my code on Windows to use the wonderful Visual C debugger. But then I'll switch back to Linux to take advantage of the awesome Valgrind memory debugger.
All in all, Linux gets the egde, because of the huge number of free apps. Gimp is fantastic, once you get over the initial hump (there's an initial hump for Photoshop, too). Kino is fine for video editing.
Case in point: the other day, I wanted to copy a CD of mine to my hard drive. I thought "let's check Google, and see what apps are out there to do this". About 10 minutes later, I had downloaded a Linux app (readiso) which did exactly what I wanted. It was free, which was nice. But more importantly, because it was free, it was very easy for me to make use of.
This kind of thing happens about every week or so -- I find some nifty free app for Linux which does something I want to do.
If all things were equal, I'd use Linux. I just can't trust Microsoft. With Linux, I know what I'm getting.
But things aren't all equal. Linux has a much larger base of useful apps than Windows. OK, perhaps with Windows, I could buy apps to do what I want. But what am I supposed to do? Buy a bunch of movie editing apps to see if there are any which do what I want? With Linux, I download 2 or 3 apps, and decide what I like.
Back to my subject line: I use both (Win2k + Linux). I trust Linux more, and find it more useful and flexible most of the time. But alot of times, I want to use a Windows app, for one reason or another.
Haven't we all discussed this question to death already? It's only the single most common question the Unix/Linux crowd asks themselves just about every day, while trying to justify their use of their OS over Windows, or while trying to make improvements to it.
I think the answers are pretty obvious, really, and there's a laundry list of them (which varies by individual).
If you want to know my *personal* list, this is basically it:
1. Games (I love "Age of Mythology", most of the EA Sports games, and many others that don't run natively, or at all, in a Linux/X environment - or at least require lots of extra work to get them going.)
2. MIDI/Music I like to compose electronic music with software synthesizers (usually VST plug-ins), looping software like Sonic Foundry's ACID Pro, software samplers like Native Instruments Kontakt (that read Akai format sample CDs) and occasional hard disk recording. None of this really gets done very well in Linux.
3. Overall convenience I'm not the only one who ever uses my PC. Friends and relatives occasionally sit down to use my PC. I like not having to walk them through everything when they see an unfamiliar interface, or hassle with small headaches caused by Samba networking support and needing to access resources shared by other PCs in the house running Windows.
A: I don't have the time or energy to learn how to use ANOTHER operating system.
B: While win98 had me within a hairsbreath of switching to Linux, I replaced it with XP. Every problem I had with 9X disappeared, almost completely. My PC is every bit as reliable as a Mac (with a better game library to boot)
I don't approve of some of MS' tactics, but I approve even less of the smarmy, holier-than-thou attitude most Mac users I know seem to have, or the "If it's easy it's for morons" mentality of the open-source community. I don't want to come home to my PC and mess with IRQ settings and god-knows what else just to surf the net. And besides, Windows can be just as secure as Linux or Mac OS if you take proper and reasonable precautions. (ie use basic stupid common sense)
So the short answer is, I don't want to switch. I'm happy with Windows.
Maybe I should have made the subject "Ack! It's not more applications , it's my applications "
How did I get out from under? Well, job-wise, I work as a technical instructor for a company that teaches Solaris, HP-UX and Java. Occasionally, I'll have to teach an onsite where they are using NT or 98 or something (I teach Java), but for the most part, I'm on Solaris. We have company laptops which are supposed to be NT/2000. Mine's Linux. Sorry, not using my laptop as a server at an onsite class for Java under Windows. I don't care what flavor of Windows it is, I'm standing in front of students who evaluate my performance. I'm not using anything that may crash in the middle of something important. So it's a credibility issue for me. Maybe if Microsoft supported Java better (at all), I'd use NT.
Other than that? My choice. I don't have to use Windows for anything. There are alternatives. Can I play games on my iMac? Hell yeah. The top games are all available: The Sims, Warcraft III, Harry Potter (it's number 6 or soemthing like that), I can play them all. Sure, I just got Jedi Knight II, what, 8 months after the PC release? So what? I was playing Sims, Warcraft, Alice and Diablo for all that time. How many games do you need? More than that? Buy a console, they've got even more games than Windows. Can I run business software? Certainly. Word, Excel, whatever. Server applications? Check. Apache, SSH, name a service. Java? Roger that, too. Some Java gurus think Apple's JVM is one of the best ever. There isn't anything that I can do on Windows that I can't do on something else. Well, okay, VB. Why would I want to do VB, anyway? I don't program for Windows only.
Sure, there's loads more software for PCs. The top sellers are Windows licences, virus scanning software and utilities packages to fix your system. Joy!
I read a lot of stuff from both sides: Windows is better for business, Linux is better for stability. OS X is equal to both in both arenas (unfortunately, we're sometimes equal to Linux in driver support and Windows in eye candy that can bog down the system as well, but we're getting better - hey, our current OS is, what, coming up on 2, 3 years old?). Hardware's more expensive, maybe it's not worth the cost from the parts perspective, but the whole . . . ah, so much greater than the sum.
Plus, we get ants in our laptops. And sometimes they catch fire. Clearly, we think they are pants (which means we may be lying).
If your company forces Windows on you, erase the hard drive and install Linux if you can. Or even if you can't. Just do something. Take a stand! Have some reasons, and try to have some way to do everything they want you to do with Windows. It's not that hard for a lot of people. Take away the IT department's power. You might even be amazed at how much more work you can get done when you can ignore most of their e-mails and don't have to reboot as much. REVOLT! STEAL THIS OS!
The only thing keeping most people on Windows is plain laziness. Plain laziness.
Do not touch -Willie
like... my Linux box, it like went beep beep beep, and half of my... like... pr0n was gone. I like switched to Apple so like they don't like let you view pr0n without like viewing adverts so like it convinced me that I don't like need to view it.
And, I like using two mouse buttons. Not one, not three, but two.
(Note: I am using "Linux" and not "GNU/Linux" intentionally.)
/proc.
Let's talk Background:
I have been using Linux on and off ever since I was running Slackware on a 386SX-16 w/ 4MB RAM, to RedHat 6.0 on a Athlon 500. Do I like Linux? Yes. I have used it for many personal/internal projects, such as a Firewall/Router, for both sides and various tiers of heterogeneous C/S applications, as a database server with MySQL and PostgreSQL, as a file and backup server with SAMBA, and in a security-related project. For me, your average "IT-Guy", Linux is great.
Let's talk about my work life:
Windows pays the bills. Why? Most of my for-pay applications target Users. Not "developers", "hackers", "gurus" or anything even closely related to an "IT-Guy".
Let's talk user friendly:
If you have two newbie users and place one in front of a freshly booted Windows machine and the other in front of a freshly booted Linux machine, which one do you think is gonna get the hang of it quicker? Wait a second, is that Linux box even configured to boot into XWindows, or is the user gonna be looking at a text "login:" prompt?
The [Start]->"Settings"->Control Panel" sequence is pretty much the same on most Windows systems. On Linux systems, it may depend greatly on what Window Manager and/or Windowing Environment is in use or even the version of the one installed. Hell, on some machines, the equivlent is cd-ing to
The users experience with Linux can vary greatly by what distribution, version, and window manager and/or windowing environment is installed. Windows is a little more consistent in this area.
Oh, and how about accessibility/usability features for hearing/visually/motor impared users? (Having "Dasher" installed does not count!)
Lets talk about deploying an application:
In my experience, A well-written Windows application (Note: this does not mean some dinky VB application), is much easier to deploy on target Win32 machines than on Linux machines.
On Windows, the OS Version and Service Pack Level provide (most) of what you need to know to figure out your requirements, and you can be 99.99% sure that users will get a consistent user experience.
On Linux, you may have to worry about the Distribution (now where *do* these config, data, and log files go?), the OS version, the sendmail version, the PERL version, the AWK version, what shells are available and which one I am running under, etc.
Two words for Windows: "Windows Installer".
Two words for Linux: "RPM", "Tarball".
(Which one do you think is better/easier for users?)
Lets talk about accessibility:
Hell, I do not know of any accessibility features in Linux proper, or any of it's shells, window managers and/or windowing environments.
Lets talk about stability:
Is Linux more stable than Windows when you pound on it? Perhaps. But users do not run their machines 24 hours a day, they do not have so many things running on it that the load average is always around 10. And sadly, they accept crashes. Windows has crashed so easily and so often that users are used to it. Should they be? No. But they are, and that is why the lure of "crashing less often" may hold little weight for them.
Just my $.02 on why I still use Windows, and maybe why some others do, too.
Peace!
-=- James.
1. When I fsck up my Gentoo, and I don't have time to get it up and running :)
2. I'm currently working on a looong paper in Windows using Office (rather than my preferred Abiword, or even OOo), because it has to be integrated with 7 other people's papers into one large document, and I'm worried about compatibility issues (hell, if different versions of Office don't even play nicely with each other, how can I expect other programs to play nicely with office??) :)
* I'm trying to get Office2K working properly in Wine right now, and if I can fix a few snags, then this is no longer a concern
3. This last one's minor, but I have yet to find a p2p client that I like as much as Gnutella, which is unfortunately, win32 only (AFAIK).
That's pretty much all I can think of for now...
One App: Adobe Photoshop
Oh screw that artsy-fartsy worthless pile-of-puke photoshop! The app that I give a shit about is Quickbooks! As a small business owner, I have to worry about keeping track of bills, invoices, depreciation, sales tax, income tax withholdings, unemployment, payroll, etc., etc., etc. What app in Linux can handle all of this that does not involve a significant amount of time investment? And, trust me, time fucking with software for an ideological purpose is time that I'm not spending with my customers or time I'm not spending finding out how to cut costs or time I'm not spending how to more effectively advertise or time I'm not spending how to keep my employees happy. In short, it's time I'm not spending making my business successful and worthwhile.
And yes, I know that the Quickbooks UI is terrible. It doesn't matter.
And yes, I'm joking about Photoshop being a pile of puke.
And yes, I adore Linux and abhor Microsoft. I'm writing this post in Konqueror on Linux, but I know that I'll have to reboot to Windows come Monday when it's time to pay bills again. Y'all have no idea how bad it hurts. Rebooting into Windows significantly less pleasant than shoving a rusty, red-hot blowfish up my urethra. (Don't ask me how I know or how a blowfish could be either rusty or red-hot; I'm just giving y'all a taste of my ultra-sophisticated sense of humor.)
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
I use both Windows and *nix. I'm a software developer. I also use computers for recreational web browsing and communications (email, IRC, various IMs etc).
Generally I'll sit at a Windows desktop, and access a FreeBSD box remotely. Why? Because it's easy to do. Sitting on the FreeBSD box and accessing Windows would be painful.
The actual applications that I use don't differ much between platforms; I spend most of my time in OpenOffice, gvim, Xircon/xchat and IE/Galeon. Neither Galeon or IE are notably worse than the other.
So funnily enough, it's one of *nix's strengths (easy and powerful remote access) that puts Windows on my actual desktop.
I've used Windows for years, and I can do just about anything I'd ever want to do with it. Stability issues are my biggest complaint with Windows, and that, coupled with my hatred for Microsoft, caused me to give Linux a try.
I'm about five hours into using Mandrake 9.0 and I'm having what I would consider fairly basic problems. For example, I'm still not able to get Mozilla set up to where the upper portion of the browser with the drop-down menus and buttons is even readable without a magnifying glass. I've also had no luck in getting the mouse wheel to work in either Mozilla or Konqueror. If there are easy answers to my problems, they are eluding me at the moment. I'd like nothing more than to be a Linux-only user, but if the experiences I've had in trying to switch are represenative of the learning curve involved, it might take me a few months to even get my e-mail set up on it.
For now, I'll have to keep using Windows until I have a lot of time to devote to learning more about Linux. Was it this hard for everyone or am I just (un)lucky?
Anyway, I hope I will be getting ADSL soon, which would solve that problem. So then all I need is the Neverwinter Nights client for Linux to come out and I can switch over :-).
I have two PC's - both have Windows. To install another OS, I would do it over the network (via my POTS line). FreeBSD has always been great about this sort of thing, none of the major Linux distributions has an installer that does this as automagically as FreeBSD though. I want Linux not FreeBSD however so the second machine is still Windows. Someone told me there is a convoluted way to do this with Debian, but I have not had the time to do that yet. If I was going to do FreeBSD though, it would just be putting in the dialup phone #, PAP username and password and that would be it, it would start installing.
Going to give it a try anyway. I have 5 computers in my living room (no wonder it's always too hot). Three Windows boxen plus Mandrake Linux & an eMac with OS X.2 (OS X is way cool BTW). I work in a windoze shop. The first box is an active directory server I'm keeping around for learning. Other than that this box does not really have a useful purpose.
The second box is a DVD player / MP3 player / PVR box. The DVD & MP3 part I can run with an IR remote control. Show me the same functionality in another OS and I'll switch in a New York minute (It has to be easy to use & set up though).
The third box is running xp home version. This box I used to use all the time until I got the eMac. Now I use it for games, video, and audio editing. I'd do the video editing on the Mac but the "i" applications do not support standard MPEG1 (those bastards!). To get this functionality on the Mac I'd have to shell out about $1000.00. The video editing software cost me about $80 for windows (VideoFactory). The windoze audio software cost about $90 (also bought the noise reduction add-on). I do not know of similar software for the Mac (or Linux). Still have to keep the xp box for games. The Linux box is mainily used for a file / print server. It is nice to have around when I feel the need to tweek.
I use the eMac the most. It's nice to run a *nix drivative that I do not have to tweek all the time to get things running. Tweeking is fine but all I do all day at work is tweek to get M$ crap to work. I don't need that when I get home. The eMac also functions as my alarm clock in the morning (Thanks to iTunes + AppleScript + cron). This way I don't have to listen to our crappy radio stations and their 12 year old inteligence level prank call crap.
To sum it up, I only have one windows box I really need to keep but until I can get comparable software on another platform I have to keep the other to dose boxes as well. Although If I did not have to support Bills junk at work, I prolly would not have as many doze boxes. Message posted with the xp box cause I felt like it tonight - deal with it K. Having a choice which OS I want to work on at the moment is, in a word, priceless.
-- Spammers: My E-mail server is in California. Consider yourself warned.
Apple totally smokes MS. I have seen win2k in action and have used it and let me tell you memory leaks still abound. After using it for days with many applications, the slowdown experienced leads me to believe the os is failing to properly manage memory.
With OS X apple definately has a huge advantage, even before this the technically inferior POS known as the Mac OS you could go buy an apple set it up and use it for years without running into the issues a windows system experiences.
Also do not lie I have seen windows machines be taken down, and as for fast I use XP Pro everyday and the interface seems slow in comparison to my G4 400, which is 3 years old and still chugging something I can not say for my PC.
As far as I am concerned, Unix for my engineering work, Windows for games, and Mac for common pc tasks.
I own both and I bought XP Pro, and have a homebuilt pc. Let me tell you windows is a toy and if you understood its design you too would see the flaws.
Photoshop and Word are the biggest reasons. While the GIMP is -- once you get past its poorly designed interface -- almost the equal of Photoshop for preparing web graphics, it's almost useless for prepress. Nothing in the Unix world comes close to the full functionality of MS Word, and yes, I do use all those "worthless" features.
Then there are a slew of lesser programs that are Windows-only (or even DOS only, in the case of the Apple II emulator I love dearly), some but not most of which are games, that either do not run under WINE and DOSemu or do so too slowly or unreliably to be worth it.
It's definitely not the relative strengths of the operating systems. It's the availability of certain software packages. Otherwise, Windows itself has nothing to recommend it over Linux, with the sole minor exception that it is a royal pain in the ass to set up a printer under Linux.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
What is this thing you call "Windows"?
I've been using computers since 1983 and never owned a "Windows" type computer.
Is is something like a Macintosh? I've used those before. It's like Motif, right?
Can you play a computer game on "Windows"? I bet the kids would like that.
I've attempted to make a full switch to linux a few times in the past, and i will try again in the future. Things in the past that have caused me to switch back: one of the earlier times it was p2p(this is mostly fixed now, I was reliant on Neo Modus's Direct Connect which seems to have a gpl clone now), office(yet again fixed), proper dual monitor support for kde(fixed).
Just before the last time around, I joined an active gaming clan, which wouldnt have normally held me back(return to castle wolfenstein), except our clan uses TeamSpeak for voice communication during matches. Now TeamSpeak is releasing a linux version, and I've started playing Battlefield 1942. So the only thing holding me back from full time linux use is one game. C'mon EA, give us a linux version! props to teamspeak for taking the initiative to release a linux version for us though.
I guess i could have just said "Battlefield 1942", heh.
StickMan
www.rageagainst.net
I haven't tried the C/C++ or Cobol plug-ins, but for Java at least, Eclipse is a very capable open-source development environment. I don't think it's an MSVC++ killer yet, but it's well worth checking out.
Agreed! I think I was taking exception to what I perceived as your blaming the user for having their preferred applications. I think, in this regard, it's anyone's fault but the user's. A user's preferences for applications is not a matter of debate. Then again, I may have mis-read you, which is entirely possible.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
More of the same, but there are already thousands of posts, so I don't feel so bad:
Why do I use Windows?
1.) I LOVE windows 2000... I won't touch anything earlier than Win2k/SP1, but it's solid. I've been running it for a year and a half and have yet to honestly kill the system. Why? How? I know how to run it. I'm picky about what I install and what I let run. It runs like a dream.
Try it. Don't bash windows until you:
A. Learn how to run it.
B. Try Windows 2000 - it IS different.
2.) Windows (2000) is the better environment FOR ME. It's that simple. Some people prefer Macs, that's fine. I prefer PCs w/ Win2K.
3.) 3rd-party software. This is the biggest one. EVERYTHING is written for Windows... maybe it's just because Windows needs it and other OSs are more self-contained, but...
Give me this on another platform and we'll talk.
Don't get me wrong. I like Linux. It's great fun to tinker with, and for everyday development g++ is a ton better than VisualStudio (for example)... This machine dual boots (win2k/linux). I'm a fan of OSX too... but it's all about what works for YOU.
Stop the Windows/Mac/NIX hate.
-.-- -.-- --..
One fish / Two fish / Red fish / Blue fish
ShyaOS - Think Differently!
There are some places on earth where macs are not common at all, i.e. nobody is selling it. It's about time...
Desktop applications in Linux are not yet up to par.
Every time I've tried to do word processing in Linux, I find a feature I need isn't correctly implemented, an annoying minor bug pops up, or I get a core dump. I always end up rebooting and using MS Office. Granted, Abiword, OpenOffice, etc. have been getting better over the past few years but still have an amateur feel to them.
Web browsing is also a problem. While I agree that developers should write standards compliant HTML, this isn't the way things are. Unfortunately, if you want all your web pages to display properly, you need Explorer. End of discussion.
With this said, I always try to use a unix based software package if it is comparable or better than it's windows counterpart. For certain tasks, though, windows is the superior tool.
On the hardware side, I havent' been able to get my Geforce 4 (msi G4MX460-VTP)video-in to work yet under Mandrake 9, and my two USB gamepads don't work(at least, not as /dev/joystick). I haven't figured out how to get my MIDI keyboard to work on my SB16 yet either.
On the software side, I have thousands of dollars of software I can't just throw out the window. I still haven't found a MIDI editor which works well(rosegarden is the only one I could even get to run, and it is best described as "ass"(with all due respect to it's authors, it's not nearly as good as something like midisoft's product))
I still have a lot of faith in linux and it's non-MS kin on both the commercial and non-commercial sides of the coin. I have set aside a significant of hard drive space to Mandrake 9(which I can finally use on the internet, thanks to connexants softmodem drivers for linux), and I use Mandrake 9 on my laptop exclusively. Depending on the applications I use, this changes; for instance, when all I did was java programming, I used Linux because it was better for a dev OS than anything else which would run under 32MBs of RAM. When all I did was play simcity 2000 and civ 2(recently -- I only found a copy a few months ago), I had windows on there exclusively. Right now I'm using Linux on my laptop because it has so many apps for it.
On another note, has anybody else tried installing Mandrake 9 on a 32MB machine, and if so, did you find out how to get the other two disks to install? Linux is badly crippled without the rest of the dev stuff, and I'd really like to try blackbox and play some games on the default install(yes, I know how to install programs, but I'd rather not if I can help it)
It's been a long time.
What is keeping me on Windows ?
1) Decent money management software. I have downloaded and used all of the OS personal money management software. Nothing in Linux comes close to MS Money or Quicken. As much as I can contribute to these products, I need the features that their Windows counterparts have NOW.
2) Have you ever tried using the integration of the Windows apps with the Pocket PC ? I use MS Money, Outlook, and Mappoint. Everything I do on these automatically syncs up with my pocket pc. I have web pages bookmarked in IE that automatically sync up with my pocket pc every day at 9. Every change I make in MS money appears on my pocket pc. Everything I do in Outlook to appoinments or contacts just appears. The integration is very sweet. It makes my pocket pc an extension of my desktop which is what I need and wanted. If linux had anything like this I'd use.
Linux is getting closer every day. And I will help it get there. But I will be using Windows for a long time.
"Action is the thing that escapes most people. Great ideas are a dime a dozen. Great actions are few and far in between.
That's all I've got to say. I don't like Microsoft as a company, but one or two of their products are pretty decent. Office isn't one of them, and I use VIM and CodeWarrior for development on Windows and Unix both.
This flies in the face of science.
This is the first time I've ever seen a story get over 2300 posts! Amazing!
Anyway, I use Windows because I like the short sound clip that gets played when Windows XP boots up. I find it soothing. I also like the default wallpaper with the green hills and partly cloudy sky. Linux just can't compete with that!
Well this article is 3 days old in slashdot time, and has 1000 comments on it and no one will ever read this, but I didn't see any other comments that address the issue so I'll throw in my 2 cents.
I program a handfull of different languages. Visual Basic, Delphi/Kylix, php, C++ (well enough C++ to get me in trouble.) Of all the languages I use, I love Delphi and Kylix. Why? because it lets me make GUI apps with the ease of VB, and the object pascal language has all the power and flexability of a real object oriented language. Yes, I think Delphi/Kylix is a real gem of a language.
When I first heard about Kylix (the Linux version of Delphi for those who don't know) I was overwhelmed with joy. But alas; I had not the big buckets of cash to get Kylix. Then Borland slapped my in the face with open edition. Here was a free Kylix that I could use to develope GPL apps. Ok, GPL only no big deal. I want to write GPL applications, but I went through all the trouble to get kylix Open Edition working and it had none of the things that I found usefull. No database connectivity, no easy access to TCP/IP. So I wiped that Hard drive and put Windows back on.
Whats the point of this long story? Something Microsoft has know about Windos for a long time is that the more programs that run on windows the better. Visual Basic's sole purpose in Microsoft's stratagy is to attract developers to Windows, and it worked. Now as a previous poster noted VB programmers are the scum of the earth, but there are are more of us than any thing else. We write lots of programs and we write them for Windows. If only we could be writing programs for Linux, we could be writing games, Personal information managers, and hosts of other things that people complain are missing from Linux.
Personally I have been ready to jump ship for 4 years and honestly the only thing that really keeps me on Windows is that Kylix left me hanging. Now I know you are all saying, "Why don't you just buy Kylix Pro?" Well. When I program professionally, I do it on the platform the boss wants, with the tools the boss wants, but when I do my personal programming, I use the tools I like and the release my code GPL. Since it is just a hobby at that point, I really can't afford to thow $250 at borland each time the come out with a new version of Kylix. This is where it really counts. I'm doomed to use whatever the boss wants at work, but at home I have a choice; granted it is a choice limited by what I have available. I use Delphi and Visual Studio (on Windows obviously) because I acquired them long before I realized that Free Software was what I wanted to write. (I know there are issues with writing free software for a non-free OS but that is a whole other can of spaghetti I'd rather not open at this time)
Summy: I choose Windows because Linux at this time does not offer me the tools to program what I want the way I want, and I already have the tools I want for Windows. I can 'scratch my itch' just fine with what I have, but if I want to scratch that itch on Linux, at this point it will actually cost me money instead of saving it. Maybe once enough LGPL libraries are out the for Kylix Open Edition, I'll consider the switch again but I don't see me swithing any time soon.
I know I am a bad speller, so if you reply save yourslef the time of pointing out misspelling. This post is about ideas, not grammer.
Slashdot is an anagram for Has Dolts, and I am Dolt number 468543
I can't disagree with you more. In regards to the Internet as it was in 1995, Microsoft sensed the impending paradigm shift in computing and they seized the moment.
.NET initiative. .NET just makes it easier for developers to use the rich functionality made available by the Windows platform. That, along with the excellent development tools will keep adoption rates rising.
Fast-forward to 2002, the Internet is obviously here to stay. Not only has Microsoft more than succeeded, they've helped define some of the standards by which we program and use web sites. In regards to your point about not needing the OS anymore because of the Internet, Microsoft's answer is their
What MS does the best is pleasing their customers. They know their market. They know that in order to keep Windows on top, applications need to be developed for it, whether it be web or not. Keeping developers (myself included) happy is the best way to secure that.
For me, a web app developer, there's no better platform than the one the Internet grew up on.
I hear a lot about X being bad, X being hard, X is this and X is that. All of it is bullshit plain and simple.
The X window environment is likely the best feature of any UNIX and Linux is starting to do it really well.
X is what gives Linux its true multi-user environment. Sure you can run command line stuff without an X server, but why bother?
You don't have to be a CLI geek to make good use of X. Just know ssh, xhost, rlogin and how to set your DISPLAY variable for UNIXes that are not crafted to be display friendly and you are set. That is very little to learn really.
X window setup is getting easier every day. When I started with Linux, X was hard. Now it is a whole lot easier. Give it another year and it will be no harder than dealing with win32 display issues.
X is what brought me to UNIX. I was headed down the MSCE path until I landed in a situation where I needed to work with a few UNIX machines. The users there used all of the machines as if they were their own. To someone used to non X display systems, this was amazing, not to mention very productive from both a user and administrative standpoint. Client server is not the only computing model. Think about all the web applications out there. They work remotely and you just display and input. Lots of people seem to think this is great. Guess what, X is that and more and it is here today, working nicely.
Before we had the networks we have now, X would have been a waste on most desktop machines because they were not connected enough to matter. Not to mention that if they were the OS was clearly not up to the task. So today we have a bunch of people who don't know what it is. This does not make it hard, just different.
Today we live in a networked environment. X was designed years ago with this in mind, we are just now getting there. Why continue an old mindset just because it is comfortable?
Take a little time to learn just a little about X, it is worth your time.
Blogging because I can...
I just picked myself up a new box and currently am running WinXP Pro, though I am planning on throwing a Linux partition on it as soon as I get the time to do so. I will probably split my time between OSs, perhaps spending a little more time with WinXP.
To me, one's choice of OS is more philosophical than anything else these days. Personally, I like Windows' hardware detection and ease of use, especially for games. When I install something, I don't have to worry about libraries, dependencies, distributions, package types...I just run it and it installs (for the most part). Linux is getting there, but (other than the Linux-native games) you're running a game made for one OS on another...and that usually takes some tinkering.
That leads me to my love of Linux - the tinkering. With Windows, everything happens behind the scenes...but with Linux, you can climb in as deeply into the inner workings of the OS as you want. Wanna find out WHY something is working the way it is? Use the source, Luke! Want your desktop to look EXACTLY the way you want it...or want to get rid of it altogether without sacrificing usability? Linux is the way to go! But then again, there are times I don't WANT to worry about that stuff...and that's when I use Windows.
The point I'm trying to make in a roundabout way is that I can't see purpose in choosing one or another, other than for purely philosophical reasons. WinXP does a lot of nice things...and as much as I hate Microsoft, they did a good job. Linux also does a lot of nice things, albeit in a much different (and sometimes more elegant) way than Windows...and everytime I use Linux, I get a good feeling about using an OS that was created with a philosophy I can get behind wholeheartedly.
When it comes down to it...use whatever the hell you want. Use one, both or neither. And that, to me, is the biggest strength of Linux - you HAVE that choice.
...playing games, having LAN parties, reading e-mail, surfing the web, or being productive as opposed to configuring and installing my OS, troubleshooting for compatibility, reading techie websites for problem solving tips, rebooting after making changes, and being told "this software will not work with your OS."
Windows is secure enough for the basic user, stable enough for the basic user, and compatible with 100% of my friends' computers. Sure, LINUX would be fun, but I'd have to want to use it a priori to select it over Windows, which pretty much just works.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Just offer to pay your irc buddies whatever microsoft support costs you, and I'm sure you'll no longer be flamed or insulted, but thanked and perhaps even worshipped a little.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Probably only a minority of people favor alternate OSes over Linux. I am one of that number, but I am highly aware of the those other people. My observation of them leads me to believe that they favor Microsoft Windows either out of ignorance (maybe they don't know what an OS is) or job security (administering a Windows box requires specialized skill, which means the Windows-certified professional has a secure job in the Windows world), with most people having little concern beyond not having to buy and learn a whole new way of doing things.
2) if not, what's keeping you from 'putting your money where your mouth is' - why are you using Windows?
I have always been a fan of alternate systems. I ran my old computer on Novell's DR-DOS for several years, before finally breaking down and buying Windows 95. The processors that run my computers have been either Cyrix or AMD. About two years ago, I became so disgusted with Windows crashes that I vowed I would move to another OS, no matter what it took. Yet, I just bought a copy of Windows XP. Why?
The main reason I still use Microsoft Windows is that I am highly familiar with both the product and the design philosophy of the product. I have been using PC-compatible computers since 1988, and it is difficult for me to get used to Linux. I have tried. I own over a half-dozen distributions of Linux, starting with RedHat 5.1 and going up to SuSE 7.2 Pro. I also have a copy of BeOS... for that matter, I have a copy of OS/2 Warp 3. I have never been able to get any alternate OS to function as it is supposed to function. I have spent several evenings trying to get simple things (like connection to the Internet) working, knowing the entire time that I could get it to work in a half-hour with Windows. It's not that Windows is that much better; it's just that I know it that much better.
Recently, I decided to back up all of my pictures and home movies to a bootable hard drive. I tried using a few distributions of Linux, besides BeOS (and OS/2 Warp), but I could not get them to work correctly. SuSE installed OK, but I am not comfortable partitioning drives under it, and it does not correctly play most of the movies I've collected. If it has anything as functional as ACDSee, I don't know about it (no, The Gimp is not it). Meanwhile, I have about 2 Gig of photographs that I took that are waiting on a portable drive, with another Meg or 2 added each week. After a few weeks of experimenting, I finally broke down and ordered the cheapest copy of Windows XP Home I could find.
I am required to use Windows in my workplace. I recently asked the head of the IT Department which version of Windows they planned to use for the near future, as I am considering certification (or, at least, training). He told me to get Windows XP, as the company would be moving to that in the near future.
Many of my friends at work have Windows XP on their home machine. Only a few try alternate OSes. One is a Linux guru; another is an Amiga fan. Both also use Windows.
Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
$300 XP Pro or free Mandrake? Hmm... Not to hard to figure out!
-Scott
(a poor dual-booting college student)
I use Windows for one primary reason and a bunch of secondary reasons. Primarily, I was raised to use Windows. The first PC I used had Windows on it and its been that way ever since. I have tried linux, but I just can't seem to get it running great on my hardware. Without the funds to build a linux box and certaintly not buy a Mac, I'm stuck with the windows box. However, I guess I shouldn't really say stuck. With XP, I really don't have any reasons to switch OSes. XP is stable like unix, is already something that I understand completely, and (for special people like me :-P) was free. Why would I want anything else?
SIGFAULT
A slashdot poll is like wearing a parka during winter. What seems to work in Tampa, may not work in New York.
My wife and kids still use Windows on two of our nine boxes here in my kingdom. Does my wife like Windows? Not especially (She want's a purple MAC, I can't afford it). The kids have gotten used to
thier games locking up and know how to either shut the game off (ALT-F4/Taskmgr) or turn the computer off. This is OK with me. WINE doesn't run everything. Will XP/2000 ever be in our house? Never.
At my small workplace we are a multi-platform shop. We support AIX, OS/2, SCO, Win Whatever, NCR, HPUX, Linux, and (believe it or not) Dr Dos. I have been using Linux there for almost two years.I use under WINE(VSS and VC6) with no problems. With our recent BSA audit we have all the developers running redhat 8.0. The sales staff is now using Open Office. With the exception of the one VB scripter (I won't call him a programmer, VB is not programming) (WINE and OLE don't mix), my new Linux converts seem to be happy. All three (C/C++ programmers) have added Linux boxes to thier home. I even get the "Gee Wiz" comments that I already know about.
I use Linux on my primary machines. When I am at 30,000 feet Linux will never ask for the CD.I still boot to Windows 98 to play Duke3D and Starcraft. I use Linux because I like full control over my computer. I used to use OS/2 but we won't go there. It is my computer right? I can program it, I can play games on it. I can have it handle my checking account (15 years and counting on the checkbook, gotta love importing spreadsheets).
Microsoft stopped letting me have full control of my computer when they introduced the GID and the registry. Microsoft stopped letting me have control of my own programs back in 1993 when they changed thier netDDE API's into NetOle. They broke a years worth of work. I and my ex-employer at the time have never forgiven them. I now code (since win95), at the lowest level, win32.
Newbie clue: It's not about the Apps, the IDE, the code, and the language. It doesn't matter about the OS. It's about the business knowledge. If you spend a year writing the killer application, and you use another companies libraries to implement your solution, you are at that companies mercy. Write it from scratch when you can.
Anyway, I am comfortably numb right now. I am not going to spell check. I am using Linux/Mozilla to type this in. My laptop is quite happy right now with the job it has been given It is recompiling a new kernel with PCMCIA support for my companies latest project (a Multi-Serial/wireless server).
If you like Linux you can kiss my ass. If you like windows you can kiss my ass. ProDos still rules.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
Lack of direction, duplication of effort. This seems to happen frequently in the Linux world - e.g. KDE vs Gnome. This duplication of work to solve the same problem is redundant and inefficient. Sure, at the end of the day the user gets a choice but it's counter productive and doesn't help the development of Linux, but fragments it.
Fonts. Fonts are clearer, sharper on Windows, easier on the eyes.
Games. There's nothing for Linux
Dev tools. Windows has better dev tools, Linux is getting there. If there's one thing MS got right it's their VStudio package. They've got some smart people working there (yes smart people don't only develop on Linux) Probably the best thing about the Linux dev tools is gcc. The surrounding tools (emacs, Anjuta, KDevelop) just aren't at the same level.
Easy to configure. I've been trying to adjust the refresh rate of my monitor on Linux for months. It runs at a useless 60hz which burns my eyes after a while. On windows I get 85hz. Trying follow the instructions for configuring the XF86Config file is mission impossible.
Sound works on Windows.
I've got 5 buttons on my mouse and I use all of them. With Linux I can only use 3.
Finally Linux hasn't felt the full force of Microsoft yet. It's won some battles while MS wasn't looking. Microsoft over the next 5 years will make Linux a primary target. They will throw resources at it to shutdown or slow it's advancement. And they will succeed. The most challenging times for Linux are just about to begin.
Actually Ennui is just one reason.
I have 2 computers... 1 devoted to games and the other... essentially everything else. I browse, read email, read usenet, respond in kind. I use office products. I download videos/pictures from the net.
The areas where I'd have some difficulty replacing windows with, say, Linux would be:
1> Email. I'm not sure what linux client would work as "nicely" as outlook express does.
2> Synchronization with my palm pilot. This is becoming less important at home, since most of my syncs and entry of data is done at work. But apps like Avantgo and the like are things I use every day at home.
3> USENET. I started out reading usenet on trn, but I'm not sure I can move from Forte Agent & Xnews to TRN.
4> Irc. Sure I can use Epic or BitchX, but mirc works fine for me and I'm very comfortable with it. I'm not comfortable with using BitchX to chat on multiple channels, or msg people as well.
5> Office apps.
6> "MultiMedia". From Winamp to Divx to every other codec under the sun used to encode avis, mpgs and the like. Much of that goes away when you abandon windows.
7> Yahoo/AIM/ICQ messengers & chat rooms.
8> Digital camera and CF reader
While most of these things are doable in Linux, they're certainly not doiable with the ease I have in windows. Of these, I think email is the easiest to get over but the hardest to transition- I can deal with using pine for email, but how do I convert 60 megs of emails in OE into something usable in linux?
Seriously. I have a fair bit of experience with computers, though mainly of the software side (C, PHP, Java, etc). I've installed Windows three or four times, and only once had a problem (sound output, that was fixed by taking it to the store.) You'd think I would be able to install Linux, right? I have tried
:)
. Linux Mandrake (retail version 7.2)
. Linux Mandrake 8
. Debian
. Slackware
. OpenBSD
. FreeBSD
all to no avail, even after installing/reinstalling Mandrake itself about five times.
I got help from the guy who set up AARNET and basically brought the Internet to Australia. That was the closest my machine got to running Linux (Slackware in this case.) Even with his help the graphics were buggy and sound output was non-existant.
I took my computer to a store to get Debian installed -- he got me a prompt but no X server, and definately no sound. And that was after a day of ringing around his Linux friends for extra information.
I have pretty average hardware, so I don't know where the problem lies. PII 333, 32mb RAM, 40GB HD.
So basically, what's stopping me is frustration. It's the fact that I can get my work done on Win98 without too many hassles. Yes, it crashes every now and again but I don't have to worry about monitor issues, about not being able to use a modem (a REAL modem, not a winmodem), or not being about to hear sound.
Because everything I want is available on Windows (Photoshop Lite, Freenet, gcc, python, lisp, ocaml, haskell, etc...) and it works very, very easily.
I want to use applications. I don't want to grok conf files to be able to get an image on my monitor.
Sorry if that was heated, but thinking about all the hours I lost trying to get Linux working gets me as discursive as some of the Linux evangelists
I have only one windows box (which I'm on right now because I haven't yet been able to get linux working on my DSL connection). The only reasons I keep windoze around is for gaming, DSL, and the fact that all of my computer science classes are taught on windows. I wish my college also had linux/unix courses availible or at least incorporate 'nix into the curriculum.I am pretty new to linux, and it rocks. It is all so new and strange when you are used to windows,and I was getting bored with trying to tweak windows.I think I am the only one in my town who has even heard of linux(thanks to /.) everyone I have talked to thinks it's dos until I startx then they wonder what version of windows i've got.
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I would really like to find a viable alternative to win98(or XPpro at school), but linux doesn't cut it. I used to have linux box sitting next to my Windows PC, hoping that someday I would aquire the nack to use it as fluidly as Windows. But as time wore on I left the box alone, gathering dust.
/.ers and worked in the tech sector, but unfortunatly (fortunatly) I am a social science person, so I don't have to use some linux like enviroment, so I cannot become familiour with it, so I won't use it at home. I grew up on DOS, I went to high school on 3.1(1), and I got through college on 98, and at 98 I will stay.
Linux is NOT going to be as intuitive as Windows EVER. Linux, sorry to say, is too much of a throw-back to the OS's of old, and I don't like to WORK to get my games running, to hook up a LAN, or anything else for that matter. Work and though are reserved for school and work, all else must be reflexive and easy.
I've given up on Linux until the time that the "community" gets away from their archaic *nix roots, meaning when they surpass DOS6 in ease of use, and OS X (Or windows, even) in the natural intuitive factor.
This might be different if I was like 90% of
BTW: My old Linux box is now running DOS6, with Win3.1 (with NT dual boot). ROFL!
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Warning. My keyboard sucks. The shift shift key sticks.. that being said:
I program in 4d, python, APplescript and whatever other languages we use at work. THe company I Work for is 100% Mac. I use MAcOS 9.2.2 at work. My faviorite OS in the entire world is MAcOS 8.1 so I'm not far off my dream platform.
I home, as a hobby, I write a program called Myster. MYster is a JAva program. MYster is developed in a WIndows 98SE machine. I use WINdows 98SE because the hardware is cheap and extremely high quality. The SUN JAva VM is also the best out there. I like to know which bugs are mine and which are JAva's. I like the hardware that WINdows 98 SE supports. I don't use WINdows 2000 or XP because I know where the bugs are in WIn98SE and my hardware is living peacefully with WIN98SE so I'm not moving.
I have two computers at home. ONe is a custom built PC made out of high end components. THe other is a MAc WInTUnnel machine. I bought the wind tunnel machine because most MYster users are using MAcOS X. I don't like MAcOS X. It's less pleasent to use than the MAcOS that went before it. THis is unforgivable. I use MAcOS X, because my users do. THE JAva AWT implementation on MAcOS X is terrible. MacOS X has the best JAVa deployment I have ever seen. THis leaves me with mixed feelings.
In addition to my "Wind tunnel" dual G4 tower and my bitching PC I have 5 copies of LInux I bought or got bundled with books. I've read several books on Linux / UNix. I've installed at least 3 linux distributions at one time or another. TO be blunt I do not understand what people see in this opperating system. It is a time spong. I've spent more time just trying to figure out how to do something simple in LInux then I have working around oddball bugs and installer problems. I don't have the pacience for Linux. I will use Linux if my MYster user base switches to LINux but LInux appears to be Developer freindly but user hostile while the ideas behind Myster is 100% the opposite. USers are gods.
BTW: I am writting this on my brother's computer. MY brother bought a HP pavilion. SO far the CD rom has broke and the keyboard is wonky. I am not a fan.
A DOS emulator and a couple of CDs full of abandonware!
I work in IT in "MS Shops" it's where my skillset is and since I despise with all my being C and it's low level brethren, it's kindof hard to move over to Linux or BSD development.
So until I can use a decent IDE for developing in a language that doesn't make me want to gag in Linux. I won't go over to it.
I love playing games. Love them to bits. Great enjoyment out of destressing in front of the computer. Console games have pretty much universally left me cold so that'd not an option for me. So until Linux produces games equivalent to or even ported from Windows to the same quality and reasonable quantity and frequency, I won't go over to it.
I've tried BSD and it's way too geek heaven for me. Sorry but I want the challenge to be in finding new and exciting things to use my OS for, not in trying to get it to work.
Linux I've tried many times and as far as I'm concerned the OS is the GUI is the User Experience. I want a system that makes things easy for me to use. I'm sure that one comment will likely get some snarling from the "command line/shell rules ok" mob here.
I like some of the things being done with the 'big two' desktops in linux, think they're improving in leaps and bounds in both useability and functionality. Unfortunately, linux is still too easy to break. Before anyone jumps up, there is no point in saying you can drop to command line and type all kinds of magical stuff there and it's all wonderful. That is not what me or 99% of the rest of the computer users on the planet are after.
The GUI has to work, work well, be robust and still allow me to do all the things I need to do. If I have to go and type in a command then it's a failure.
So until all those are true, I won't go for it.
Why not some Sun unix box or a Mac? Well they both suffer from MS syndrome but even moreso for me. No thanks for getting locked into proprietry hardware.
All this wouldn't be so bad if I didn't despise the business practices and - admittedly in times past moreso - the software that Microsoft produces. I happen to like windows 2000 (xp is way too cartoon for me) but their licencing profit grabs, their bundling of software to kill the opposition, their befriend and behead tactics, everything about how they do business makes me want an alternative. I just don't see one that meets my requirements yet though.
The question everyone seems to be answering is why they haven't yet converted over... to me it is more of a question of "why would I want/need to?"
;) My modo is: "if it's good enough to run all of Yahoo!, it's good enough for me."
Under Windows 2000, I've got a system that is extremely fast, reliable, and supports all of todays most and least popular hardware. And then there is the application base. All in all, with Win2k, I've got a system that rarely ever crashes, is fast as an Linux system and has a plethora of hardware and sofware support.
And then there is Linux. Ok.. Linux is entirely free (as in beer). What else does it bring to me on the workstation or desktop? Nothing. Seriously. What else does it bring me?
This entire arguement assumes two things:
A) I do not care about the monopoly arguements surrounding Microsoft. As long as they produce as product that I find usefull, I don't really care who they piss off.
B) I do not care about the price of either the operating system or the applications that I use under it.
If you assume these two criteria... I don't see an honest case for any Linux system as a Windows desktop-killer.
As a server... well.. I admin FreeBSD servers. Preaching Linux to me is... well, rather stupid.
And in the end... for my home boxen (aside from the OpenBSD router box), i need to be able to play Counter-Strike!!!!
/dev/random
If you try to use it for some real work... it will happen. Something will go bad and trash your latest piece of work, or Word will not co-operate and do something stupid the way you do not want it to, and there's no way to make it do something otherwise, and so on.
As for stability, my desktop machine has been up 22 days (kernel upgrade). I do play games with it... managed to buy many Loki games before they went out of business. The desktop is always there when I need to use it. Just turn on the monitor and start working. No need to boot all the time, no need to set up your windows the way you want (of course they would be restored upon boot), and the little hum and hiss from the machine is relaxing...
The only reason I see why people run Linux on here is to get chicks.
I primarily use Linux. But with XP Pro on the more stable side of Windows I use it more and more. Windows works and has the software I need to get the big stuff done. Linux lets me get the small stuff done quickly and painlessly. The ideal would be to combine both and I can to some degree... but Windows still has an edge.
WINE can hardly do all the things I need in Windows, but CygWin can do most of the things I would use Linux for. I haven't been able to find any free (as in pocket lint) options to get things working in Linux.
It's really about what OS has the software I need. Security, stability, and ease of use just sway the needle past the center mark. But that doesn't keep me from dreaming Open Source dreams.
at home! I've used Win at Tec College, Employment Service, and at my Brother-in-Law's.
At home I've used Amiga (WB/OS) since 1988. 3 months back I was given a AMD k5 by my Brother-in-Law and installed Storm on it. But there was nothing to hold my attention there.
My next machine is to be a G4 800Mhz mid-range 'M' System AmigaOne.
(Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted! 'divider')
"Once seduced by the Dark Side, forever will it rule your life!"
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Windows for games.
Linux for everything else.
I sispect a large part of why a lot of people report that their primary PC runs Windows is that their primary PC (ie the one they use most) is at work, and at work they have to adhere to the company's IT policy.
Normally this involves not installing your own software on your PC, of course this extends to installing a different OS, so unless you work at a Linux house anyway, the liklihood is you'll have to run Windows at work.
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
First of all, nothing's keeping ME on Windows, but it did in the olden days. A few issues were hard to resolve.
First of all, 3D FPSs don't work with my card. 3D drivers on Linux exist for some cards, but certainly not all. In CS, for instance, I have to use software rendering, and the mouse buttons don't work either.
Second of all, soundcard driver options like Microphone Boost and recording from PCI didn't exist for my card. This has been resolved with ALSA.
Printing. Anyone tried printing on Linux? It's a big joke. Yeah I know, the utilities are there, and they work on like 3 printers. Not mine.
Compatibility. Fortunately, Wine works with loads of games, programs, AND my favorite emulator, Gens. So that's not a problem for me.
i am web developer so i use both all for usebelity tests....
but my servers are all linux based...
but it much esear for me to work and develope on windows when i have all the tols in the right in one place (homesite,photshop, ie, nn, mozilla, db, etc...)
and there is also games but i have resently acvired ps2...
... so eventuly i might switch to all linux
Who controls the information, controls the world...
linux rulez
I use Linux. Right now I use a minimal Slackware-installation.
When I start working with a new computer I tend to install Linux after a cupple of weeks. Then I fix, trim and tweak that installation one pice at time, untill one day when I suddenly realice that I don't use the Windows boot-option any more (often this occurs when it chrashes and won't work without a re-installation).
What I use a computer for is basicly to browse the web, send/recive email's, use IRC and ICQ, and SSH. It's an internet-interface. This Linux does well.
Regarding the UI, I've tried to create a Linux-installation for my parents. In this I've used qvwm (www.qvwm.org), and that works great. They can't at all see that the are not using Windows (with a little tweaking of the icons). There are browsers and OpenOffice and such to make them feel enough at home in the aplications as well.
But there is still one problem I've come across, and that is the lack of a nice UI for the filesystem. A really simple _and_ nice looking file manager. This simply do not exist for the *nix-platform.
Either they are MidnightCommande-based (it's a hopeless task to get my parents to use that), or it is a part of KDE/Gnome and therefore require 145 libraries, development stuff and such. I've tried to install some file manager I've liked the looks of, but this is a rather old box, and I use a 56k-modem, so none of the nicer looking alternatives are really an alternative.
And generally the nicer looking file managers are not only to large and library-dependent, they also have just to many "extras" included. What I want is something as simple as the inkluded file manager in Windows, or Windows Explorer. Something like that. A nice UI, runs on it's own, and not a resource-hog.
(I've used rox-filer, which almost reaches the goal, but has some other problems.)
I've learned all I know about politics from
I'm not using windows anymore.
Linux:
More complicated
Worse overall for games
Requires more time and effort to figure out simple things
Has a huge learning curve
And after those things i still switched from windows to linux. why? am i nuts? No. i enjoy using my computer. i enjoy knowing that all the software i have on my system is free. i haven't pirated some company to get it. i like knowing that there are other people like me who think that software shouldn't have to cost money and that computer science is an art form. i don't care if i can't play the most up to date games: that's what john carmack and nvidia are for. i don't care if i can't watch the newest movie trailers, that's what divx is for.
I want a computer that i truely own, and control. not the defacto standard given to me with no choices, no options, and no freedom.
It's a chicken and egg problem. If all games and software were written for linux instead of windows, and windows was trying to gain popularity it would find a hard time trying to do so. it's an uphill battle. but linux is gaining ground. it's showing up in the news more and more. it's coming to walmart pcs. it's reaching new levels of usability with mandrake and redhat. for those who truely believe in the OSS movement, we are the future. we are the people who make a difference in a company: who push our bosses to realize the benefits of supporting this platform, etc.
to say that not enough software is released for the platform is only fueling the issue. do what i did. drop windows. just switch, and make due with what you can. think of windows software as non existant, and if it *must* be run, use vmware or winex.
That's why i don't use windows.
- tristan
Then one fine day, a friend of mine let me back up all my files on his server, he installed Linux on my box (with KDE 0.98 I believe) and my trip began. I spent two months confused, wondering what I was going to do with the box, then lo and behold, as I used it regularily, I realized that it wasn't complicated, it's just another OS. Once you learn where to configure what, the rest of the OS reveals itself to you.
You start to learn how to compile software from tarballs, you learn that RPMs are scary (RedHat 5.1 at the time I believe) and you get used to the community. Yes, there were people who were less than helpful to a new user, almost rude at times, but don't let the people get you. If you don't use Linux because someone's being an ass, that's your fault, not theirs.
I went through KDE, GNOME, stuck with WindowMaker for quite a while, then hit Enlightenment up until KDE 2.0 came out and I figured I'd give it a try again. I was as pleased as peaches. I've been running KDE again since 2.0, I'm a huge fan, and there's nothing I don't do with Linux except play games (and yes, I have a Windows partition for that, I'm not fearful of admitting it). To be honest, I like Windows, I like what it offers, but I just don't know what to do with it except play games. It just seems kinda useless to me unless I want to buy $300.00 worth of shareware to get good apps running.
I've recently used a copy of my friend's Mac OS X and I applaud them on their new OS, but it has nothing on Linux with KDE for me. Nothing kept me from using Linux except me not knowing it existed. I guess sometimes you just have to have an open mind.
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
I started to get interested in Linux during the Internet boom. At the time, Microsoft was doomed because Linux was free and was going to take away all of Microsoft's revenue stream. I figured I'd get a head start learning skills that would keep me gainfully employed in the post-Microsoft apocalypse. Hmmmm....
Now, before you think that I am a hard-core Microsoft fan, let me convince you otherwise. When I worked at the company, I ate blibit burgers, religiously attended the company meeting, and faithfully spread the word that Microsoft was good. While I still have an enormous amount of respect for the company, I too am nervous about the massive market power that the company wields. That power needs some sort of check and balance. People need to have choices, otherwise there is little incentive for Microsoft to improve their products. That's now why I'm interested in Linux.
Now to the original question: What's keeping me on Windows? Here are some answers:
Despite all of that, I am typing this message in KWord and will (hopefully) copy and paste into Mozilla to answer this post. I'm just about to throw out my commercial editor ($300 a copy) and replace it with VIM. The only thing holding me back is learning the VI keyboard interface - Still getting used to that. I'm learning Perl, Apache, MySQL, PHP, PostgreSQL, and a ton of other COOL stuff. I might even have a reason to get back into C++ programming, which I haven't done for years. And best of all??? I've spent only $24.95 to enjoy all of this. (Well, not counting the hundreds I've spent on Oreilly books)
But I'll probably always have Windows on my machine. For the foreseeable future, it is just easier to use as a desktop OS.
NOTE: When I say "Windows" I mean Windows 2000 or Windows XP. I'd be the first to admit that Windows 95/98/ME is a POS.
i am posting this anonymously because... well i'd rather just not attach my name to my main reason for constantly booting back into windows, which is at follows:
there's a certain file sharing (p2p) program that simply isn't available under linux. in fact it has win in its name. i've been able to do everthing else in linux, but whenever i need a fast and rare song, nothing else can touch that app. it's name is something like XxxMX
i have one windows box at home for music production, fruityloops etc. there is definitely nothing similar that actually does the same on linux, not even remotely. same goes for sound forge and plugins.
and then there's photoshop. i've used it for 7 years, and i prefer it over gimp anytime. and last time i checked, sane doesn't have support for my canon usb scanner. and there is no pressure control on my wacom tablet on linux..
my main internet box is linux though, runs apache, mysql, postgres, other junk and I just happen to like X as better environment than windows gui.
ound the message used repetitively over and over still nothing grows silen
I have an interesting situation, in that I have all three systems. Here are the pros and cons I see:
(1) Mac: This is the best, most user friendly computer I have found for DTP. The problem with the Mac is that it is so expensive (especially out here in the boondocks), and the quality control has never been tops. My preferred DTP combination includes Quark, Acrobat, MathType, and [for occasional quick typing... nothing permanent] MS Word 5.1a. I still use an old, defunct software package called "Deskpaint" (by ZedCor) because no other graphics package comes close to matching it in terms of speed, stability, program size, utility, or usability. In addition to having an excellent interface, it has all kinds of "paste" filters such as tint, transparent, White is Transparent, Black is transparent, gradients, antialiasing, and good control of the number of color levels. I see none of that on GIMP or Windoze programs. Its program size is 198kB, but it can handle 6"x6" 300 dpi images on a 200 MHz machine instantly.
What keeps me from sticking with Mac-only? Expense, and a major Quality Control problem. When my macs break, I can take them to the shop to be fixed for about $200-$300 a shot ($125 minimum for opening the thing up and looking). 3 times out of the 4 that this has happened, ***THE VERY SAME THING HAS RETURNED TO BROKEN MODE WITHIN 6 MONTHS***, and the Apple-verfied Service Provider essentially does not cover the warranty. Trackpad buttons, power supplies, ???Surface-mount??? powerplugs attached to the motherboard.... Apple's QC is just lousy.
(2) Linux: it's a great server. I want an appletalk server, I just install Debian Linux, Atalkd, and AFPD, and I get it all. Unfortunately, (1) Desktop stability and usability is zilch. I use KDE as the best I can get there, but it is lousy, and crashes a lot. (2) Security is really not good: it is next to impossible to learn, and (for example), to be secure on Debian, I need to stay in Stable. But Debian only allows KDE 2.2, and KDE releases a "security update" that says "you're wide open if you use anything less than KDE 3.0". So that means that secure Debian users can't have KDE. Other issues are similar. As far as I can tell, Linux is really "secure by obscurity", though it is open source. That is, most people don't use Linux, and most of those who do either keep off the web, or else can afford the time to stay secure. I can't, but the fact that most open systems are Windoze, not Linux, gives me a modicum of pseudosaftey, no more. Oh, yes: it is a pain to learn any new software app. For example, if I want to write a CD, I still switch my system back to Windoze, because I don't have the time to learn the Linux method.
What keeps me from sticking with Linux only? I couldn't get work done if I did that. When I want a server, Linux it is. But for usability, I'll go with something else.
That said, if I ever get my business going enough that I can take 6 months off and just program, I may write some programs (like a much better alternative to GIMP) for Linux that will make it usable. Maybe. I probably am not good enough to do that. If I have enough free assets at some point to hire 5 decent programmers for a year, I'd ask them to come up with a web-based, postscript-based substitute for Quark that would be ideal for our business. Maybe they could -- I don't know; it would have to be free assets, assets I could afford to lose.
(3) Windows: This has easy usability, right from startup. You can practically guarnatee that any equipment you buy will work with Windoze, and work well. The problem here is that nothing is permanent. If I write a MS Word98 document with MathType, and do normal editing on it, I have about a 33% chance that it's going to wind up corrupted. Likewise, I can't really store data on my computer for any length of time. Why? Well, the system tends to get slower and slooooower, and sloooooower [right now, my bootup time on my 800Mhz Windoze machine is about 10 minutes, and requires me to be there at the 4 minute mark while it asks me to sign in to Microsoft Networking, or it will stop and wait.]
Eventually, I essentially have to reformat the hard drive (surface scanning isn't enough), and reinstall Windoze. There is a good chance that I won't have the documentation and security codes for all the software that I have purchased, so even what data I save may not be usable.
Oh. Security on a Windoze machine is a joke. When I boot into Windoze, I disconnect the network connection by hand, and do without the internet. What I really use my Windoze for is writing backup CDs, and sometimes printing.
I recently bought the basic iBook model (700 Mhz G3, 128Mb ram) and it feels slower than my 400 Mhz PII with Win2K. Talking to apple they tell me that 128Mb "makes your machine almost unusable". Jeez!
But after putting in another 256 Mb of RAM the machine seems faster, but still sluggish compared to a similarly priced PC.
I suggest everyone do the same. As well as a Windows desktop. This way, you get Windows-software compatibility with the laptop, desktop-hardware-compatibility with server, and both hardware and software compatability with the Windows desktop. It all works out, and you can use less or more of each system to suit your specific needs.
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
I'm a big fan of Linux, OpenBSD, MicroBSD and free software in general.
But I have to work on Windows or MacOS daily for one thing : audio. Although there are some free audio software, there's no drop-in replacement for Logic Audio, T-Racks, Stylus, Pro-Tools, etc. and it's unlikely that there will be.
A single high quality effect plug-in means a lot of work (both for research and implementation), and as this is a niche market, free software developpers won't focus on this.
Another thing is that interoperability is important, in order to have several people work on the same audio project. But the file formats aren't documented at all as far as I know. Reverse engineering takes a lot of time.
Another thing is the lack of hardware support : midi interfaces, professionnal audio cards, samplers, etc. Even on Windows and MacOS, this is sometimes tricky (not everything works with XP and very few hardware actually work with MacOS X, you have to stick with MacOS 9) . And once again, manufacturers don't help by releasing the specifications. There are not interested at all, because they don't see any potential market. And after all, there are right. Music makers are not computer geeks, they would be scared by Linux.
{{.sig}}
When it comes to gaming there are certainly a lot of people out there who consider other needs first, then ask themselves, "what games can I play with what I have?" But the way a gamer thinks is "what do I need to play this game?"
For them, there is no question. Yes, you can play Warcraft 3, Quake 3, and Counter Strike on Linux, but as I said, for gamers the limiting factor is the GAMES...not the OS.
In my opinion, developing games (like id does) that work on Linux natively certainly improves the experience for existing Linux users, but it will never convince gamers to switch. To get the gaming crowd they must be able to play all Windows games, past present and future, out of the box.
Put another way, if 1 million people play Counter Strike you aren't going to win 1 million converts if you port CS to Linux. Each one of those people also plays some OTHER game that DOESN'T work under Linux yet (and probably one that isn't popular or recent enough to be ported any time soon). You need blanket compatibility.
I'd switch away in a second if games didn't lock me in to Windows.
I think you use PSP to save your png images - it saves (at least with default settings) some gamma correction values there.
Because mozilla & friends actually apply the correction, you get something different even when using identical RGB values.
Should try a better distro and place to talk. Seriously, on the SuSE mailing list you won't get flamed for asking the simple questions...Actually some of use love them :).
I don't have to deal with a gnarly interface, or hunt for obscure drivers, or compile a bunch of binaries just to get things to work.
I have better things to do with my time.
...of the same damn arguments!?!?
Microsoft's Equation Editor symbols do not properly display in OpenOffice, and many professors will only post assignments this way. My current professor posts grades in .pdf, but the syllabus and all assignments are in Word.
Dreamweaver MX.
I run NT4 in a VMware virtual machine when I need to use Dreamweaver and check how sites look in IE.
realkiwi
I've been a VB developer for 6 years. I was good at it. I knew how to make good quality software with it. Yes, it was a piece of cake until you have to do something more advanced. Well, you can buy components to do more advanced stuff. So I bought a few and solved the problem.
Then comes the kicker. Microsoft released a VB update. I tried to use it but it broke a lot of things. Those 3rd party components also changed and they weren't compatible any more. I decided to write a C DLL to solve the problems. While doing that I noticed how utterly horrible VB really is when you try to do anything more advanced.
Because of all the problems, I decided to not upgrade VB and continue with an older version. Then came the real kicker. Windows 2000 and XP don't supprt it that well any more. There are systematic crashes that do not make any sense whatsoever.
At this point I noticed what a big mess I was in. I had lots of source code that only worked in VB. I couln't upgrade VB without lots of work. At this moment I decided to try Borland Delphi. I rewrote a small part of my software to test what it'd be like to work in it. It was difficult first as I wasn't familiar with Pascal but the results blew me away. My Delphi version was about 20 times faster than VB. I took a long look at my codebase and made a tough decision - I'll rewrite it in Delphi.
That was 4 years ago. I now write everything with Delphi. The quality of our products have skyrocketed. They are smaller and a lot faster. Thanks to Delphi, I can write multithreaded, object-oriented software without any 3rd party components. Since then I've updated Delphi4->Delphi5->Delphi7 and only needed to recompile. With Borland Kylix I've been able to recompile some to even Linux.
I'm a happy man now. I do most development on Windows as my clients use Windows. But I can port all my codebase to Linux easily any time I want. My work doesn't depend on Microsoft any more.
Believe me. There's nothing worse than depend on Microsoft Visual Basic. If I had continued to work with VB, I'd now have to deal with all the changes moving to VB.NET.
I see a lot of comments saying this program or that program isn't available for Linux.
Once software companies start releasing Linux versions of their software, this problem should be reduced. There's no reason Adobe couldn't make a Photoshop for Linux.
As far as games, start hounding game companies until they support Linux. Get enough people to buy the game and they'll have an incentive to release more games.
The answer is fairly simple on my end. If I get rid of windows, my girlfriend won't be able to play her games, and life at home will be hell.
Realistically, I currently do Java development on WinXP and FreeBSD. Besides testing on both machines, it doesn't really matter which one I develop on since I refuse to code anything OS-specific. I have an old 133 laptop running 98, which I don't think I have booted for a month or two. I also have a TINI board running on the network, but I haven't played with it in awhile.
I would prefer to have 5 or 6 more machines running, with different OS's, but realistically wouldn't use them very often.
What really sucks though is that I actually had to launch IE to post a reply to this message because Opera7 wouldn't show the REPLY button.
http://www.google.com/profiles/malachid
It's pretty simple really.
"Windows is easier to use."
2 things make it the easiest to use:
1. Places to buy Windows
--You can buy it on 99% of computers sold.
2. Price
--Cheapest OS product available at 99% of stores consumers buy at
I have had enough of repeated reinstalls, user choces that vanish, nonexistant security, and SLWONESSSSSS!.
I use FreeBSD as my desktop,
BUT
I have to boot Windows to use
Hotmetal Pro 5 for web design ... Bluefish? Are you kidding?
MS Word - Sure i use OpenOffice Writer when I can (even on Windows), but if you get a Word DOC from someone, and have to edit and return it, you have to use Word ON Windows, else the fonts screw you.
CD Writing - FreeBSD does not admit that I own a CD writer, let alone use it! I have no idea why not, It is a supposedly supported one! And it was the same with my previous one! And when I sent an e-mail to Jeorg whatsisname, he was pretty offensive. MS may not actually give you support after charging for it, but at least they dont aggressively insult you.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
excuse me if this has already been said (amoung the gazillions of posts above :-) ) but one of the most common acronyms in the linux world is RTFM. Written exactly like that, because it's mostly used as an exclamation.
I've been using Windows for years, but changed to linux because I did not want cracked software on my PC and did not want to pay for some of te programs either. Having tried linux in different kernel versions off and on (mostly suse distros), aside from the gui problem, I _always_ had to google, rtfm etc to get some things to run. Even with SuSE 8.0, which claims to be so working out-of-the-box. Nevetheless noone in the linux world wants to accept, that the average user does not want to wade though shelves of literature on linux to solve his or her problems. That's the reason for Windows only having a tiny manual, that has almost no content aside from some quickstart notes. And I don't see the point, why people should rtfm. Things should work in the first place - that's what an ordinaty user thinks. Most people don't have an idea, what's behind that desktop background picture, and they simply don't care and don't want to be bothered with technicalities.
I use an IT-mandated PC at work - but run the IT-mandated stuff under vmware over Debian, so there :) I've talked our boss into violating all the guidelines we have and purchased a Mac for video editing and, er, stuff (my boss is not of the pointy-haired variety).
At home, we've got a PC because Sierra dropped development of Pharaoh for the Mac. It's actually that simple. However, I don't fancy ever buying a new PC - we'll keep the PC for games and upgrade its interiors every now and then, but the next machine we buy for home use will be a Mac.
-- Rolf Lindgren, cand.psychol
I'm a maths student. I need to use Maple. I'm in the UK. The government here screws over people who can't be easily fooled into voting for them so I can't afford even the student edition of Maple. There are no warez versions of Maple for Linux that I can find.
I used to use Linux full-time, until I needed Maple. So: Gnu crowd, make a Maple clone. Maple people: make it cheaper. Warez kidz: put a version of Maple for Linux up somewhere.
I'm not joking. If any one of those three things happens I'll be back in the land of the penguin.
Games are the biggest factor, no doubt. And as cool as the WineX project is, it's NO substitute for native ports.
;)
Also multimedia. It can be SUCH a pain to get a DVD to play properly under a free *NIX, or to get browser plugins to just work without crashing the respective browser...
Hardware detection is also much more painful than it should be (in a perfect, vendor supported, world...)
Off course, I DO have my greedy little eyes set on a Powerbook w/ OSX. Who says *NIX can't pretty... and fun.. and easy...?
Naturally, my OS of choice is currently FreeBSD
--iie1195
I've got an iMac too. Mostly for e-mails and sometimes web. It runs on MacOS X.1.5. (Curse you Apple for demanding $140 for an OS upgrade!) Only thing that I'm missing for OSX is a decent newsreader like Forte Agent.
As soon as cool games will be released for Mac, I'm going to say the Windows platform Good Bye and move on. I changed to PCs in the first place because Ultima Underworld was an exclusive PC release. Before that it was an Amiga, and before that a C64...
...Microsoft products are not worth the money you pay, so why pay? Apart from that, it's a family computer so I've got to go with what people want. I've got my linux nicely set and well used on another partition.
-- Alexander Penman-Hayes http://www.phazetech.co.uk
For many people, there is nothing really keeping them on windos, except the fact that everyone, even the Linux fans, is telling you how painful the switch is and that you still need windos for many things.
I kept a dual-boot system for many years, telling me the same stuff - need windows for games, need windows for this, need windows for that.
Like some nicotin or other drug addicts, one day I just decided to do it. I removed windows from lilo and never looked back. Yeah, there is software that doesn't run under Linux and there isn't an equivalent, but as with smoking, you gotta get away from it before you know if you really need it or not.
So, what's keeping people on windows? Habit, of course, and the Fear, Uncertainty and doubt tripplet.
My estimate is that maybe 10% of the windows users really need windows. Everyone else could switch if they only wanted to. That they don't means that billy hasn't pissed off his users enough, yet. Smart guy, I give him that, knows his limits.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Macromedia and Abode are the two major companies holding linux back, we need to start a huge petition to get them to port ALL their products to linux, do that, and a HUGE number of people will no longer need windows.
Nero-burning ROM for Linux!
For me it's the right tool for many jobs and I don't have time to be a sysadmin at home. I also enjoy my games too! -abase
73 KC2BQZ
GIFs instead of PNGs are the least of Slashdots worries.
Soviet Russia keeps YOU on Windows!
I'm not a good writer so I'll copy your comment, and replace VB with MCT...
The only reason i use Windows is because i teach Windows NT/2000 courses as a Microsoft MCT. And the reason i teach this, is because it pays well (and it's easy to teach!).
I'm good at teaching, but making money as a linux teacher is not that easy.
btw I still have some OS/2 systems running...
cheers
European Linux user, living in Antwerp
I run Linux at work and home. I use Linux for everything--development, office stuff, recrecation, etc.--except (1) product testing on Windows; (2) playing QuickTime/*.mov files; and (3) for surfing at home when the kids left the machine booted in Windows & I don't have time to reboot (like now).
Actually, the only good reason I have seen for Windows is Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator games. Wow! Neat stuff!
"Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
The answer to the question lies in the actual need of a user. If a user's work encompasses using software applications (Office, email, MP3s etc) then most probably (s)he will go for Microsoft. Windows is like an average japenese car, which functions like an application on-use-off cycle to which people dont give a damn how the engine works? Please note that over the years that darned-blue-screen is becoming infrequent too.
:))
The reliability of a software product/system is inherently integrated to the operating platform that it runs on. The developers and engineers of such products cannot afford to run their creations on something they dont know intrinsically. It is a matter of trust. Linux gives that chance. It actually offers a two pronged advantage: first that it is open and thus can be theoratically self engineered to any level of satisfaction and reliability, and second is the cost. So we readily have Outpacing (more quality for less money) working in advantage of Linux.
In my field of work, we run long (running over days) simulations. As you can imagine we cannot even think of using an OS which has a high probability of crashing. So we use Debian. I believe not even Microsoft will want us to use Windows because our system usage time goes well beyond their average-time-to-crash projections.
Personally, i use SUSE at home mainly because its installation and upgrade is the least of bothers. The point is that i donot want to spend hours of my evening wrestling with my computer- hey, i do that the whole day so not again in the evening. Therefore i keep an old windows 98 handy - just in case.
Does that make me slaughter-able? ) No, i dont believe so.. in evenings i just need to "use" applications: musics, emails, letters, etc. For that purpose i use SUSE 99% of the time but sometime when SUSE gets bad and i am not feeling like pushing my hours further i just use Windows. I relax and then get back to Linux.
my 2 cents (version 8.0)
Voltaire: God is dead.
God: Voltaire is dead!
I use linux at home for both my game/web server and on my tibook.
At work I run linux on all of my servers... In my cube i use Linux...
why?
becouse nomatter what platform i am currently working on be it alpha, ppc, or x86 all of my systems look the same. I can go to any one of them ssh into another and run a program and have it display text/remote graphics just fine and look as if it were running off of the local computer. Simply once my systems are up and running they work, and work well.
Ok. Too much stuff to read completely. So, heres more.
:
.bmp for it. The 6yr old windows software prints them perfectly. Linux, not. Support for my printer is somewhat lacking (or clanky to the point of not being worth it).
.doc with tables and styles, and .xls with lots of formulae and some vbscript. But still too much monkey business to get from here to there and back again. Just to talk to the ms-enslaved world and be considered a human being, by it.
Present rig is a 750MHzAMDuron w 128MB 20G/HD nobrand DVD 16x, CDR (LG 12/8/32) cheapest Genius scanner, external greatspeed adsl (owned by my phone co), pixelview tv card.
Reasons
1. My cheapo scanner doesnt have linux support. And I use it a lot.
2. My old PCB layouts are in 1/10mm exact
3. My 4yr old Video Editing software is much easier and works better than the laudable but clanky linux similars.
4. No decent up-to-date ms office conversion (to and from). Nothing too fancy, just basic
5. Nothing but prdoom installed w/out a (major) hitch. Vegastrike-data, 4 ex., wont even download to the right size (claims 72MB, but afterwards only shows 42MB. Weird, huh ? yeah) , but I just spent 2 hours on it and didnt rate it worth more hassle.
All the rest is done in linux (Mandrake 8.2 & KDE).
In the meantime I keep reading the manuals and howtos and tutorials and scan and search the forums, like a good sutra addict, in the hope of attainig enlightment someday and actually being able to install or adjust something w/out having
to simultaneously visualize all of linux creation in infinite scope and detail.
Yes, their business practices suck. But so do that of many companies, yet you guys don't care because it's only "1337" to bash MS.
Microsoft is not the Borg. Gates may suck, but that does not mean the programmers and designers employed by MS do. They create some good products such as Visual C++ and DirectX, and I have WinXP Home and like it.
I don't feel like registering but my e-mail is cgamedude@yahoo.com if you care.
I'm working on a project destined for the general public (in a specific industry not known for its computer saavy), and that means "Windows". Not only does it mean Windows as in XP, 2000, and ME; but it also means 98, 95 and (the latest request from On High), the Great Satan Win 3.1 itself. My boss knows of two customers running 3.1, so we're building a damn front end for 3.1. (shudder)
Also, I'm cowriting a script with a friend using Movie Magic Screenwriter, which is the only decent product in that niche that has a Windows and a Mac version. Trapped again!
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Well, I've linux installed. I've got debian and an not so good install of gentoo (which doesnt seem to want to boot on my logical partition). I havnt event used Debian yet :).
I've also got OpenBSD, i use it most these days, but only really to work on my OOPHP web portal thingy i like to muck around with.
I might want to start writing some sort of XML compressor though.
Anyway, the thing keeping me on Windows is that, im too busy to stuff around setting up Linux and BSD to use the hardware i have and get it the way i want it too look.
I rebeled against Windows (i was obviously going through one of those teeny stages where i think im cool if i use something other than windows) but the truth was, despit Windows Bugs, slowness and uglyness, and linux's speed, configurability, control, its awsome CLI Shell and GUI Shells, i still like Windows because, its set up for me, i dont have to F*&k around with it to get it to do what i want to do. Dont get me wrong, i like linux and i want to learn how to use it better, but i just cant be stuffed atm. I have too much to do, i have a full time job, im in my second to third year of a Bachelor of Software Engineering and, i just enjoy BSD and Linux as a retreat.
One day i may fully move over, but maybe ill move over to AmigaOS first? Im also looking at that and MacOSX.
But Windows has the applications im used to, and plus. Linux never seemed consistant.
What do i use for help, man or info? What do i use for a package manager, RPM, apt, do i recompile from source, or do i just untar the binaries? What distro should i use? What graphical environemnt (and when i started i was really confused about all the layers, CLI, X, Gnome-gtk-Sawfish (and whateve other layers go with either enlightenment, or kde) etc...
When i found OpenBSD i was saved from all that (except it doesnt support my win modem, and has less application supportnow, but im happy to compile) and i found things became far more consistant. I worked how to configure X (after i worked out i had a Serial Mouse and not a PS/2 daaahh) and i also found its pre compiled binaries, all in one place. One package manager, one help system, one community, and an OS that had the bar minimum. Thats a big problem with a lot of the big linux groups these days. I dont know what half the shit does, and im sure i dont want it if all i wanna do is run Xchat, Mozzilla and maybe an office suit.
While having a varied diet is good, eating too much makes you bloated. That how i feel after useing RH and other Operating systems, i just want something a bit more simple.
Windows provides the simpleness, and BSD gives me that power and stability in a nice consistant package.
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimate
Now I am also definitely a gamer, which would logically tend to indicate a leaning towards the jolly old Windows side of things. But lo!, I discovered these lovely little boxes called "game consoles." For a few hundred clams for the base system, and about fifty a game (approximately equivalent to major PC releases), you get games that are guaranteed to work with your system! They're also guaranteed to be almost completely bug-free, because developers don't have the option of releasing an incomplete/buggy game and patching it later (if ever). If I ever need a good mouse and keyboard deathmatch, hey, I'm covered on the Mac. As long as I get the Unreals and the Quakes, I'm perfectly content (Half-Life can eat me). And your game will never crash or simply refuse to work because of something silly like your sound card. Fancy that...
So I guess I'm not that different from all you Linux users. While I certainly have nowhere near your level of knowledge of the machines or the software-as was noted above, we can all agree that stability is a high priority. Which is why I prefer machines that were built to work together.
And that's really what it comes down to.
I would be surprised if anyone reads this far, but this reaches 3rd place on the hall of fames most active stories. Congratulations people!
But if I didn't have a choice (I have a KVM attached to two computers, one running debian, and one running w2k), I would have used linux only. However, the convenience of the two running concurrently is great.
Now to respond to your message. I haven't looked into sound editing software for linux either though I've used soundforge for windows quite a bit. BUT I know for a fact most music/sound industry people in fact use most of their software on Mac clients. The names of some of the big programs evade me at the moment. Now what I'm wondering.. is since Mac OS X is built off of linux.. I wonder if those programs may easily transfer to a PC Linux platform?
I of course have my own reasons for still using windows.. (mainly most of the time I'm at work.. which is win2000) and games.. but I know.. WINEX... I'm interested but also lazy and busy with many other things.. so I'll get their eventually just up till now I'm not.
Who makes you Sig?
Two things: 1) Gaming, I play many games and most don't have Linux clients. 2) Work, they're on the MS Bandwagon (never mind that Ruby Gemstone is Unix based) with 2k in nearly every site. They don't have any software that isn't windows based to control Ruby (although Verifone might). 3)The new security system in win98 which, if you want to remotely log into it, you have to run a windows box for their client software. Otherwise I'd dump windoze in a second.
People say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Why? Is there any shortage of bad ones?
Here's a little example.
We have RedHat 7.1 at work (comes with gcc 2.96 which isn't even an official release). The server is all installed and ready to go, and then we want to put gcc 3.2 on it.
Tried to download the RPMs from 8.0. The dependency list was not only long, but included glibc. Have you ever tried to replace glibc using rpm? I mean, even on single user glibc is still used (I thought everything you use in single user is supposed to be statically linked, so you *would* be able to upgrade things like glibc).
Well, after 2 hours of trying, we just downloaded and built gcc. Now tell me when was the last time you downloaded MSVC and built it on your Windows box because you couldn't upgrade it using the installer.
I enjoy reading those people who say "just use a different distro". First - if it takes a week to install everything we need on a server (more than a bunch of programs - it's users, samba, tools, home directories, backup, and the rest of it), then we're NOT going to just format the partition and re-install a different distribution. Second - every distribution has faults, so which one do we choose? The one with the support, of course (RedHat in this case). Tell me who can give me 24x7 support for gentoo...
for some screenshots of mine check screenshots or my guide on using linux as a workstation.
if you have a webpage with alot of visitors, feel free to use banners to make users switch to open source, apt-get.mine.nu my banners, and my friends banners (volkany)
Windoze not found: (C)heer, (P)arty or (D)ance
in all aspects of use and NEVER HAVE TO TOUCH A COMMAND LINE INTERFACE FOR A SECOND. or even know one exists!
I just wanted to make a comment about this. I would love if linux people made things braindead.. and also that you didn't have to use the command line. Personally I love command line stuff. That is my preferance. My big beef at windows is that I don't get enough use in the command line. After that when there is command line stuff its obscure and you gotta buy some big thick book... where really microsoft should have all that capability easily accessable and published on the web or when you buy the OS. At least with linux if it has a capability I can go out and find it for free on some linux documentation website either linux.org or some other reputable site. What I'd like to see for linux is somewhat of what this man talks about, but remember You don't have to get rid of the miniscule tweaking ability when you make the interface thats braindead easy. My dream is that it will have both. One day when I'm fealing lazy I can just start it up install.. do whatever and be done in like 10 minutes... The next day when I've got some pep in me I want to analyze everything and tweak it to my personal preference in every single miniscule detail.. but thats my dream..
Who makes you Sig?
The KNOPPIX CD has booted up and detected everything on every computer I have put the CD in(minus around 20% of the sound cards on the market) except for one compaq pentium 133 Laptop. I would SERIOUSLY suggest trying this CD if you are looking for a windows alternative.
There was an article on slashdot about knoppix a few weeks ago, but I do not have the link
I am a fan of GNU / RMS, I have both linux and windows on my harddrive. So why do I most of the time choose to boot windows? Well:
1) My bank software is windows-only (wich sucks)
2) There is no Kazaa for Linux
IF there where a GOOD filesharing program for linux, i guess I would be booting Linux more often. Also, if my @£$"# bank could provide a Linux software, I would not be using Windows at all! (I use open office for document creation - GIMP for image manipulation, and actually Linux to play games) I find Linux more easy to deal with when it comes to games - many games is apt-get:able (doom, quake2, tuxracer, freeciv, etc). (freeciv ROX by the way! (however I am using the civ 2 gfx tileset hehe)). UT2k3 demo worked directly with no hazzles under Linux. In windows there is always plenty of problems (directx versions, background processes, low fps, random problems, etc), and when the game finally starts, it does often not work well.
freeciv for example is MUCH faster than civ II or Civ III on windows. Linux is NOT bad at games at everybody says. And freeciv have LOTS of more features! (every civ-fan should try it!) (there are windows-binaries) (however the linux version of freeciv is much better than the windows version).
Also, a side note, both my girlfriend and my brother use Linux 24/7 because they are not yet "stuck" with needs for bankingsoftware or kazaa..
When it comes to the commercial world, there are also ONLY 2 things that keeps them in Windows-world:
1) Microsoft Office ("everybody else is using this, and they always send me office documents")
2) Microsoft fucking exchange ("Everybody uses it, it is standard, it is the best, and we get calendars and stuff also! (even if we do not use that, just say we will)")
- IMatch, simply the best Image Database I have found, nothing comes close to this in the Open world.
- Strategy Games, do you really think we will see Age of Mythology or Warcraft on Linux?
Get me these two, or at least IMatch clone, and I'll try again to switch. Windows XP is annoying.(Gawd, how I miss BeOS)
J.
I'm on Windows for the same reason that I've been on using my Palm (and thus the Palm OS) for the last 5 years: All my "stuff" is there.
.doc files got deleted during the process.
It's a matter of convenience. Ally my addrs/apps/programs etc... are there, they work (for me), and I don't see a reason to switch.
I love Linux. I use it for all of our development and production servers. I access it from my laptop using cygwin. Everything works nice and smoothly, why move?
Windows works for me to do the development I need locally. I have paid licenses for Visual SlickEdit (the only editor anyone needs, btw). Unless someone offers a migration path which is COMPLETELY seamless, I won't move to anything else; and even when that happens, I might not due to any risk.
Even now, I'm on W2K on my Thinkpad and haven't thought about moving to XP because of the risk--one of my friends did the move and all of his
Use what works for you. That's what matters most.
I use a whole variety of operating systems both at home and at work. In each case, the one that I need for the job.
On the work side, my machine is an IBM thinkpad. It runs Linux, OS/2 and Windows ME. The Linux environment is my main workplace and provides secure, virus-free e-mail via Ximian Evolution. I also deal with MS-Office documents using CrossOver to run MS-Office (OpenOffice is nearly good enough but still can't read/write MS formats exactly). I also develop software on Linux and a variety of UNIX platforms from my Linux installation.
Windows is there for playing games. WineX is getting better, but needs to support more graphics cards. It is not enough to just support Nvidia cards.
OS/2 is there for developing applications for the high-speed document transports that the company I work for makes. It still surprises me how good OS/2 Warp 4 is.
At home, the firewall is Linux based (Smoothwall GPL), for reasons of cost and security. My children's machines run Windows ME. Have you tried to run children's games on anything else? Forget it!
Finally, the latest machine at home (big 2.2GHz Dell with 20" flat panel) runs XP for various games and MS-Office, and Linux when I'm using it.
If I could run all Windows games on Linux, or if there were always Linux ports available, then I'd most likely be able to ditch Windows. As for MS-Office, the file formats ensure that I'll be a slave to that for as long as Microsoft keep the stranglehold on the market.
Please compare your howto with one of the many one-click USENET porno snarfer and home theatre applications available for Windows, and you will understand why Windows users have bigger penises. (It's because they have more time to stretch the old johnson than someone following your howto, assuming they understood or want to understand whatever the fuck it is you're blabbing about.)
If you cant get the porn right, you're Linux is hopeless.
Slackware linux was looking pretty good about then. NT3.51 was looking pretty crappy about then.
So much for linux not being ready for prime time - put an Xlogin style front end onto NT and it's suddenly an exciting new innovation!
The GUI's and applications on linux do not match what many people are used to - but I for one have no idea what assumptions to make about crafting an interface for someone that has used a computer daily for fifteen years (and has a degree) that thinks the box the keyboard and monitor is plugged into is called a hard drive.
I like the idea of Linux, but not the execution so far. My own experience was with Mandrake 7.2, so this may be a bit dated. At the time none of my hardware had Linux drivers; that situation has changed somewhat but not entirely since:
1. Lose the CLI entirely. For any typical, normal operations, you shouldn't need it at all.
2. "Unified", real, actually-useful, comprehensive help files.
3. One-click GUI software installers.
4. Basically: teach nothing, and require no prior knowledge of anything other than a basic general knowledge of "computers". An average person should not have to learn anything to use the OS that they can't quickly and easily pick up while---using the OS. Run everything in the GUI and give everything its own help button that tells what it is, what it does and how to use it.
~
No problem, right?
--------
End Note: GIMP is great for free, but not when compared to commercial products. Like Photoshop.
~
At the moment I dont like windows AND linux but windows has a few nice advantages:
... directory style would be much more fun and I bet the companies would like that more too when the apps of them do not sit between the apps of the competition in the same directory.
1) static
I dont want to play with the OS all the time. Linux keeps you busy. Ther is ALWAYS something to fix, to upgrade and such. That becomes boring if you want to do something aside playing with Linux.
2) Games
They are FAR mor comfortable in Win
3) Apps are more stable in Win
In Linux, using a Application means that I run into bugs, I never have seen in Windows apps. The Linux system is quite stable, the apps (including the desktops) not.
4) directories
The directory structure of Linux is AWFUL. In Win, the System is in the Windows directory - in Linux everything is between all the system directories and the apps are scattered over the whole system. This may be nice for servers but on workstations it is awful. Linux with a clean: app, game, sys, data, src,
regards
Gerald
...keeps most people on Windows. As much I prefer Debian/BeOS and now OS X, you can see how people love to buy games and apps in the local store or online, and hardware too.
The rich 3rd party industry is what keeps Windows alive, people have gotten used to it. They expect drivers/hardware to just work, they want to buy a game in a store or online and it arrives they put it in and it works, that's it. They have they favourite apps and they expect other people to be using the same apps and OS. People like this comfort.
If GNU/Linux allowed third party industry via closed source apps (not OS, and I feel companies are still too scared of Free software), then it would take off tremendously. I find it funny that GNU people seemingly accept closed source games as long as they run on Linux, but mention a closed source program and they freak out.
The reality is people and companies love $$$ and they have the mindset of closed source and they way things are, I'd love to see it change but it won't in the short term (if ever). The public would use GNU OS (either Linux or other) gladly if they could run all their hardware without problems, browse the net without issue (without IE problems, without having to load plugins themselves), run and buy software like apps and games without problems.
I'm a Debian developer, and I run Debian at home and work, as I have done for ~3 years. (I don't use kde/gnome though, I don't have the horsepower for it - just icewm).
I'm quite rare though. In our company there are three people who use Linux upon their desktop, Me (a sysadmin), a web developer/perl coder, and an Oracle guy.
So far I've not had any major problems, I can view PDF's/Java/DOC files etc, and generally operate on a par with other people within the office
I used to have a dual boot setup so that I could run things like the Microsoft policy editor, but not any more - if I want to run something like that I'll walk to somebody else's PC and borrow it for a few minutes.
Sometimes I wish I were running Windows - because it can be very hard to help one of our home works over the phone when I can't look to my machine and talk them through what options to select, etc. But apart from that life is peachy :)
Unfortunately even nowadays it is a lot of trouble to get your pc (especially laptop) to work fine with Linux. Yes - you can do it, but not everyone has weeks to spend with fiddling with inconvenient details. Hardware manufacturers should really _support_ their hardware on Linux.
For backgrounds, I am a long time Linux user (since kernel 0.98) and professional system developer with deep knowledge on various aspects of Linux. For past few laptops I have had the patience to hack with IrDA drivers, APM details, hot-docking problematics, incompatible USB devices, etc. My last laptop came preinstalled with Linux (HP Omnibook 500) with some of the hardware unfunctional. The first thing was to install XP over the original Linux installation.
Another issue: I develop with Java and unfortunately last time I tested (1.4.0beta) the Sun J2SDK implementation speed on X11 was horrible when comparing to W32. Netbeans was no option on Linux those days. Now when using Eclipse, I am considering of changing back (in hope that the native GTK implementation of Eclipse might be faster), as the memory management is horribly slow on XP...
As far as I'm concerned, I used Linux for some time, then I switched to BeOS one year ago, and since then I use it for 95% of the time. :)t tp://yellowtab.com/
It does all I need, and it just works. It's really nice for desktops...
And to shut the mouth os those who'll ask "BeOS ? Mouaahh it's dead": it's far from dead. It's even way more alive than before Be died
http://beunited.org/
http://openbeos.org/
h
It's been a couple of things. I do audio recording, and IMHO Linux audio still kinda bites. I can't afford a G4, so that leaves me with windows. Add to that the fact that most of the games I like are Win only, and there's your answer. I do dual boot, though, and use Macs at work.
I use Linux soley as my OS so let me relate the user I works with reason for staying on Windows. 1. Software copying--If I can copy Windows for free why should I learn a new OS 2. MCSE --I spent a lot of time getting MS certified If Linux gets big that piece of paper is worthless (opps already is) 3. Apps -- Linux doesnt have ay office apps (oh they do) graphics then (WOW never saw GIMP), Financial (they have that too) Graphics are slow (ok so that was faster and your PC only has that little bit of memory) Web Browser (opps Netscape and Mozilla) DVDs (no I dont watch them on Windows I use a real player, oh Xine with decoder plugins) .......
4. Stability--My windows box has 99.999% uptime (ok so I dont count for reboot time as the server takes over 15 min to start each time--reboot dont count and lock-ups dont eaither, blue screens never saw them my server automatically reboot with ASR thing>)
5. I used Linux and it was hard to install (okay that was 5 years ago when I still had a Win 95 desktop)
6. because I can program in Windows faster.
7. I am tired of learning new skills (ok XP and 2000 made me learn new stuff and AD doesn't quite work right
14. Windows is cheaper (What Linux comes free with all that and Programming tools and GUI editors and Office packages........)
15. Windows is easier to keep updated! Ha you will never get me on that one (opps Red Carpet)
16. MS Office (opps crossover)
17. Oh just go away I give up untill Bill Gates actually makes it where I cant pirate 90% of my software I will use Windows (oh S^!T I didnt see about the Software validating stuff, just go away and leave me with my Windows)
I develop data driven applications for a living. It's not very easy to do that in Linux. Sure, I could use Perl, PHP, or something like that, but it'd be command line or web based, neither of which is desirable. Web based interfaces are good for some things, but not all things. Command line interfaces are good for nerds, not for users.
In Visual Basic, it is very easy to develop a data driven application, either for reporting or for data entry/maintenance. If you use Perl or Python, how do you develop the GUI? Tk? That's not very easy. In VB, you start out with a form, throw controls on it by dragging and dropping and throw some code around it. Does it make me a bad programmer that I like this? No. Does it make me less of a programmer? No. It makes me smart. My employer pays me for getting work done, not for beind idealistic. I can throw a recordset into Excel (the way the accounting department wants their reports) in 5 lines of code in VB, and I didn't have to wander all over CPAN to figure out how.
I also do some things in Magic. Yes, it runs on Linux, but most everything else we use doesn't so I don't use the Magic version of it. For data driven programs, nothing is faster than Magic. It's a whole different paradigm for programming, and it is one that I suggest you learn.
For one thing I have a PocketPC device ;)
.rc files
;) But as a PIM it works great for me)
:)
Actually I have both a Windows box and a Linux box. However for the most part I use the Windows one.
It's really all about time. Just about anything can be done in Linux, but most of it seems to take more time. Granted the most common things such as transfering files over SMB are starting to get well integrated in most distros. But I keep finding extra little things that I want to do, and rarely can you "just do" them.
Let's say one morning before work I read about some nifty software and want to try it out. Anything... as a completely random example from the top of my head, let's say a weather forecaster that grabs data from an Internet site and creates a weather map.
Linux binary:
Attempt to install program
Locate whichever libraries are missing
Work out why one of the libraries refuses to install
Locate the next set of libraries that first set of libraries depends on
Install that set of libraries
Install the first set of libraries
Install program at last
Read HOWTO or README
Edit
Resolve permission problems
Cross your fingers and hope it works.
Linux source:
As above, but install the required dev RPMs, resolve configure or compilation issues, wait 10 minutes for it to compile etc etc.
Windows:
Run setup.exe
Tell it where to install
Run program
Another example is that I have a Bluetooth phone and like to syncrhonise contacts with my PIM. Linux has preliminary bluetooth support, but then you have to compile it into the kernel... then configure it... then find the right commands to bring it online... then the right commands to talk to the phone... then the right commands to download the contacts... then some way to merge them with whichever PIM.
In Windows I'd just install the Bluetooth Manager software. Use the explorer interface to pair with the phone and press the Sync button. The contacts in Outlook are updated. Job done.
(Before anyone gets smart... no I don't use Outlook for email
Those are just examples, and given time there are probably ways around them. But you get the idea.
A busy person needs their computer to "just work"
(Finally, what would I do with all those games?)
So true ! :-(
I'm a "new user" to Linux who has tried several times in the past to switch from Windows. I first tried Calderra years ago after listening to a friend tell me how great Linux was. 40 hours of phone help later (with aforementioned friend) I had everything on my computer working except the modem, and had just discovered the joys of unsupported hardware and winmodems. Half a year later and lots of "I think you'll like it this time" and I'd gone through two versions of redhat before finally getting everything to work, though not as well as on the Windows partition. Mounting and unmounting CD's.... Stale locks on the netscape browser.... Hours and hours spent chasing failed dependencies before I could get an app running... Two weeks later and I was running in my Win partition exclusively again. A year later and I built a new computer. I had a spare HD around so I put SuSE 7.0 on it. All my harware worked effortlessly except the monitor. And installing apps was more of a nightmare than ever.. And apps kept crashing down in the most annoying ways.. I'm typing this now from my redhat 7.2 drive, and so far, all is well. I've actually been running it almost exclusively for about two weeks. I'm dl'ing rh 8.0 as I type.. I've gotten everything working except the DVD player, cd burner and TV card.. I was able to find everything I needed for that hardware online, but started chasing "failed dependencies" off into doomsday... People in the irc help rooms have been a tremendous help, but the best solution I've gotten so far was "upgrade: the newest version has more complete libraries." I can't get Opera working (it installed but every time I "fire it up" it loads and crashes) and the browsers that came with the install can't be tweaked the way I like from a GUI. I'll try Oprea again when I get the upgrade done, and I'll spend another 4 hours getting all my hardware tweaked, I'll spend DAYS dl'ing libraries for "failed dependencies" and maybe (just maybe) I'll get the ATI drivers working for my TV-vid card. Then if I can get the DVD player working, the burner working, I'll have no more excuses to boot into windows. I'm guessing it'll take me two weeks, but this time I should get everything up and working. For me, it's worth it: I want to be able to CONTROL my OS, not be controlled by it. But guess what.. I did a reinstall of the Windows partition about two months ago, and it took me less then 3 hours to have EVERYTHING installed, running properly, and all my data restored to it's proper locations. I think it should be pretty apparent what it is that's keeping ppl from switching to Linux from Windows: and that's not even mentioning all the software that I own that isn't going to work until that day when I (by some miracle) get WINE running. People do work AT their computers, browse the net, get entertained, play games.... With Linux, getting the computer working has been more work than I'll do in a month while sitting here. I don't think it's worth it to most people.
Yeah, What I said was "I need MSIE for work" when what I really meant was "I don't need it" Give me a break.
It's one of the many reasons I stay on windows right now. If it were the ONLY reason, I would probably find a way to make things work some other way.. but it's not.
There are many pages I *NEED* to use that, for better or worse, don't work if I don't use MSIE. Either they use ActiveX components, or shit javascript, or simply don't render properly.
I probably COULD figure out how to use them all with mozilla; I'm sure I could, but why would I bother when IE is ALREADY there and gets the job done?
Keep in mind the topic here is "what keeps you using windows".. not "What open source software do you use in windows".
Machine not beefy enough for Solaris. :p
/. is a Microsoft place, now ... haven't you read that >50% prefers windows?
Ciao
----
FB
There are common themes in people's responses:
... kill Windows.
1 work installation
2 applications, and particularly games
3 comfort/familiarity
4 objective ease of use
5 feature parity (OS stability, HW support, etc)
6 developer community
7 expense
It's worth thinking about the last great operating system upheaval -- Windows defeat of the Mac OS. Back then, Mac lovers claimed the last 3-5 (comfort, ease, features) where all on the side of Jobs & co. In fact, reasons like those were why they were so damned arrogant, short-sighted, and ultimately the losers of that war. So while people say "I'll never leave Windows" for reasons 3-5, history shows that they are surmountable. Windows only recently became easier to use, more stable, etc than Mac. For a long time, it was the opposite and Windows was STILL more popular. So, *nix world, even if you admit to the critics that Windows is more stable, etc., Windows 3.1 is proof that this is not the critical assett.
Reason 7, the cost issue, was always a Windows advantage against Mac (and still is). It is just cheaper to get a Windows System than an Apple Mac System. *nix Systems already have Bill beat on this.
Reason 6, developer community, is one that was always a Windows advantage over Mac. What people are saying about "it's easier to develop for Win/.NET" is therefore meaningful. And this is where apps come from anyway. The promising start is that Open Source and the world of Linux-types is big and growing. Mac never had such a big, tech/development-savvy army on its side.
Reason 1 (work) and 2 (apps) are the tough ones to crack. Building better development tools helps the dev community as well as the actual app availability.
But what gets the big enterprises to switch? Enterprises themselves don't choose an app because of reason 1 (enterprises don't go home and play games on their linux box) -- the enterprise has got to be focused on a mix of the other reasons. Cost has got to be a big one - and that's an advantage for *nix. The other real one has got to be applications -- if your key business productivity app is only available on Windows, well...
So it's all about developers. Make developers enjoy writing to *nix, get apps, convert the enterprises over,
When you read about why Mac ultimately lost...it's not features, or ease of use, etc. It's that Bill & Co. marketed to developers, won enterprises, and never looked back.
So are the Linux communities focused on making the best development tools out there? Or are they focused on porting over lame browser plugins?
I don't use Windows. I have more taste in my pinky finger than most Windows users seem to have.
The only time I will use Windows is at work if it is mandated. Even then, I'll try to use a different office package if possible.
Mind you, this is a UNIX and Mac geek talking.
I have recently switched to a Mac, from a dual boot Windows/Mandrake machine. The reason I switched to a Mac was:
1. Ease of Install. It took me a week to get my Linux install just the way I like it.
2. Problem with Mac - No decent groupware product (i.e. Outlook/Exchange). Microsoft Entourage will get there eventually.
3. I wanted to only have 1 set of software. So I wanted something that my wife could use (Linux out of the question), so that was the reason I went to a mac.
A lot of guys at work say the samething, there is no decent groupware client for Linux/Mac. Evolution is getting better and better, but it's still not quite there.
I've recently moved over to largely using Linux at work, and it is rather fustrating the way that the Linux Desktop is fragmented. The thing is, I imagine that many people use a mix of KDE and Gnome apps. I find it irritating that I have to set up file associations twice and things like that. I wish it could just be unified like Windows. And don't get me started on applications that are still using Motif...
(2) Windows is compatible with the software that I enjoy using.
(3) I've seen no compelling reasons to switch or even to adapt to anything else. Windows does what I need it to do -- Mac, Linux, and others can probably do a lot of it, but there is no way that any of them can do it all with all the software available for Windows.
(4) I know Windows tricks. I've used it for years and I have a very particular method of getting around a logical system using a combination of (mostly) keyboard shortcuts and (fewer) mouse clicks. I don't feel like trying to learn a new system, and again, I have not been compelled to.
(5) And finally, and to some lesser extent than all the other reasons, but it's still a factor -- I like to defy the arrogant, pseudo-intelligent, elitist know-it-alls who wish simply to force Linux, Macs, or [insert OS here] upon Windows users simply because "Bill Gates bl0ws g0ats" or "Windows sux0rs". I don't want to hear your shitty reasons for switching over -- I'm not you. I want strong evidence that suggests why everyone should switch. Only then, I'm guessing, will I be even slightly persuaded.
(6) I am a diehard American capitalist Liberarian who thinks indepedently, votes Republican, and would like nothing more than to destroy the ideas of an American welfare state, the "thought police" (socialist/christian left) and the "morality police" (christian right), and that any majority or minority opinion may ever suppress the opinion of any other when it is universally regarded as something that doesn't matter much (such as abortion, sex between/among consenting adults, choosing an operating system, etc.).
Please note: this does not mean that I believe Windows is the greatest operating system on earth. It does mean, though, that it does everything I need it to do, and I'm content enough with it that I do not require change. (Besides, if people actually took the time to learn how to use it, it's actually quite manageable.)
Personally, there's 1 program that I have never been able to replace with a Linux equivelant that I like... and that's UltraEdit. Yes, I know there are a zillion text editors out there, but I've never found one that I like enough to make me abandon Windows.
Professionally, I manage whole bunch of Windows servers and desktops, and I'm one of those people who needs to use the product to feel I know it well enough to support it. If this were not the case then it would just be down to that text editor issue. *grin*
The Digital Sorceress
The Windows fonts are far better. Even using FreeType 2 with the bytecode hinter enabled. When you spend all day looking at them, this is a major issue. Games are of course another issue. I am currently running Windows XP and FreeBSD. The nicer machine gets Windows. I tend to code everything in windows (using Borland C++ Builder, very nice IDE) and debug it there. Things only get sent to the FreeBSD machine for final verification before I install them on our server (FreeBSD of course.) For a desktop OS, Windows is simply better. For a server, FreeBSD is better. If Linux becomes the better option at some point, I will switch however, I do not see this happening in the near future, as it would take a lot of work in areas linux developers tend not to think are important.
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
While I was reading this article I upgraded my kernel. That's just geek cool. I actually just converted my primary machine to Redhat 8.0 from Win2k Pro. Except for a few multi-media hiccups I've been really happy. OpenOffice makes all the difference. My wife was exteremely skeptical, but I haven't heard any grumbling lately so it must be working for her too. I've attempted this conversion a couple of times before and always ended up reinstalling some flavor of Windows. This time it seems to be sticking.
I own a Max laptop running OS X (my wife's), and four PCs running Windows XP. I've used both Linux and Sun versions of UNIX.
I read Slashdot because it is a great source of information about the things I care about. The only thing that I really don't like about it is all the fanatical Linux promotion. It is no big deal though, I choose to ignore it and all the Linux fans can choose to participate. Freedom of choice and all that.
I use Windows because I like it. I never even touched a PC until Windows 3.0 was available. I'd used Sun workstations at college and looked for a job using them, but I couldn't find one so I took a Windows job (I'm a programmer). I never had any respect for Windows architecture until the NT kernel came out. I started using NT 3.51 and never looked back (I'm running Windows XP now).
For me, using the computer is about what I can get done with it, not how it was done. Back when I used X I'd get all hung up on what the right window manager was, but now I realize that was a waste of time. What matters is what you accomplish, not how perfect you feel your environment is. I really don't care if the company that makes my stuff gets rich or not. If I feel like I'm getting good value and they can make a profit at it, good for them.
As far stability goes Windows XP works great for me, I've never used a more stable system. These Macintosh "switch" ads piss me off to no end. They talk about the stability of the computer as if Apple can guarantee that an application they didn't write won't crash. Give me a break. I've gotta hand it to them though, it is great marketing. They are telling the public what they want to hear, even if it is complete bs.
When it come to Linux stability, I think that Microsot is in a situation they can't win. Linux has a stable kernel. Windows NT's kernel is also stable. Where is the OS going to die then? The most likely place is in the device drivers, they are the hardest thing to write and the hardware just won't hold still. If a Windows device driver brings the system down, people tend to blame Microsoft. They are the big company, they are supposed to be omnipotent. If a Linux driver is unstable, people can find out who the developer is and tell him. Nobody blames Linus when a driver goes bad, but if the latest video driver is bad it is Bill's fault.
I don't have any sympathy for him, I think that having his money is worth being a target of so much unjustified anger. I'm just trying to point out that Microsoft CAN'T reach the point where everybody loves them.
In the end, I have no loyalty to any platform. I'm going to use whatever gives me the best results. I'm not a starving college student, I can pay for my software. It doesn't bother me if the company I get it from gets rich or not, if I feel it is worth it, I'll buy it. Don't believe for a moment that Apple wouldn't LOVE to be as rich as Microsoft. Given their history I wouldn't be surprised if they used a similar monopoly MORE unethically than MS has done. I LIKE being able to go to Wal-Mart and buy hardware and software for my system. I like that my kids can install software on our computers. I like that if something new and cool comes out, it is almost guaranteed to be available for my system.
Go ahead and continue to be puzzled about why I use Windows when it seems crystal clear to you that I shouldn't. I lived in the bad old days when everything was incompatible. I like the way things have turned out, even if Bill did get rich in the process.
Ernie A.
You know, I found your post extremely interesting because I'm just the same... except exactly the opposite way around. I've used UN*X for the past fifteen years as my desktop operating system, and tof the last eight of those the UN*X in question has been Linux. I've seen Windows and the problems people have had with it and have had absolutely no motivation to switch. As a software engineer and as a businessman, all the tools I need work well on UN*X and the Windows equivalents don't have any compelling benefits to offset against the learning curve involved.
However, Windows has been getting better. Nowadays Windows (2k and XP) seem to have adequate stability and are at last the sort of operating system which is robust enough for commercial use. But there still isn't any compelling reason to switch.
What it boils down to is familiarity with applications. All those people wh are saying 'I can't switch because I use application X and it doesn't run on operating system Y' are essentially in the same position I'm in- we're using a toolkit that works for us and there's no compelling reason to change it. Those people who, in this discussion, are saying 'I'm using functionality X and it doesn't exist on platform Y' are, in 90% of the cases, just wrong. Those people who are saying 'operating system X is easier to set up than operating system Y' are these days definitely just plain wrong (I know, I've installed them all).
For me, whether I'm writing code, doing my accounts, designing bits for my boat, sorting and manipulating my photographs, keeping up with the news and so on, the tools on Linux are just there and are completely familiar; on Windows I wouldn't know where to start.
Except for a few very highly specialised jobs, the tools have been there on UN*X for longer than Windows has existed, and just as on Windows, they've been getting better all the time. If you can't find what you need, it's because you're not looking. Not that there is any moral imperative on you to look - if what you've got is good enough, why change?
As you say, the best tool for the job wins and in 99% of the cases we're discussing the best tool for the job is the one you're familiar with. For me, it's interesting to see that Windows is at last becoming as good as UN*X, but until it's considerably better I have no incentive to switch.
But to go back to the beginning of this discussion, for Linux to become the operating system of choice for the majority doesn't require any changes to the operating system, the user interface, the installers or anything else. It simply has to become the operating system used in schools and colleges. People will stick to what they're used to, and if they're used to Linux, Linux is what it will be.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Whoopee doo!
Are games the driving factor Answer: Ev-ur-Quest
I run an old K6/166. It dualboots with Mandrake 9.0. I write a CD based magazine and Linux meets 99% of my needs.
Just like so many others there are some things I need to keep Windows around for. Namely a proprietary Acer 310P scanner (good machine but Acer REFUSES to allow any third party adaptation to Linux) and games.
WINE is an interesting program. I was able to get a number of games to work (at half speed) but I didn't have the patience to get most to work.
Next time I buy a scanner (this is good advice for Windows freaks too) I'll pick up something on the Linux compatibility list. Naturally it'll work with Windows but if the company produces a good product, it'll work on more than a single platform.
its simple: i love linux, but need to access lots of different hardware. Some is ok in a linux vmware session, but not all .. So, i still can get to all the hardware by popping over to the host win2k , without ever rebooting.
so, i need win2k so i can run linux
"There are 11 kinds of people: those who know binary, those who don't, and those who could not care less!"
I am definately not a windows fan, but considering I supply Windows (also Mac) support for my town (literally) I must have at least one machine with Win2k and WXP as a "test" machine for those impossible scenarios that ID10Ts always seem to create. Personally, if Mac wasn't so darn expensive (the good things always are) I would be there in a heartbeat. As far as Linux, I have toyed with it, sometimes as dual-boot, but just haven't taken the complete nose dive. Perhaps when I have a Mac it will be possible, since then I can still run Photoshop and Poser. :)
-Tekjnke
Looks really promising! I'll check it out.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
MY modem wont work
If you secure your system it's really not that bad, I've never had a virus.
You can also get this $20 plugin from baxbex to disable HTML which I really like. Too bad they didn't come out with it a year ago as I'm getting ready to switch.
Outlook express is still to date the fastest startup of any GUI email client that I know of.
It's very flexible too. It doesn't have as much feature bloat as Outlook/Evolution but for email I don't need all those features.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
top 5 things that keep me on windows:
GAMES
I DONT HAVE TO HACK MY WORKSTATION
GAMES
EASY AND INTUITIVE
GAMES
really linux plays second fiddle to windows as a workstations OS and to *BSD as server OS. I don't see why it so popular. It's all just hype as far as I can tell.
I like traffic lights
As for my case, I really don't mind using Linux if I can do everything in Linux as I do in Windows, even simple things like files searching or program/hardware installation. I'm not saying Linux is harder, just that users like me are too used to Windows. It'll take another steep learning curve especially non of my friends are a Linux user. Well, I would like to really give Linux a try someday.
I've got a dual-boot Red Hat 7.3 and Windows 98 SE system. I spend most of my time in Linux, but find myself rebooting to Windows for several reasons.
:). Again, other programs would probably work -- with manual configuration, if I felt like doing it.
1. MP3 Ripping. After spending hours messing around with CD Paranoia, and still not having in want to rip CD's faster 0.2x, I've given up. Exact Audio Copy + Lame do the job better, faster, and with minimal hassle.
2. Games and Legacy Apps. For example Civ 2, Icewind Dale 1&2, Unreal Tournament, and some pen-and-paper RPG utilities. Wine lists a fair amount of compatibility, but I've never gotten Wine itself to work successfully! Likewise, I've had a lot of problems with the NVidia drivers -- including accidentally blowing away my X server!
3. CD Burning. The only program that worked "out of the box" in non-root mode is Gnome Toaster. While it's not a bad program, it's definitely still a beta
4. Office 2000. Open Office isn't bad, but it lacks some features. Worse, I've got some documents that make extensive use of macros, and I have no desire to convert them. Yes, Crossover Office exists, but I can't see shelling out $50 dollars when I can reboot for free.
6. "Helpdesk". Sometimes I have to walk friends and family through Windows problems online or over the phone. While my memory is good, sometimes I need to actually be in Windows to remember certain steps.
7. Poor Linux support. The official Yahoo Messenger client seems to be in perpetual beta. Acrobat Reader is much slower and clunkier on Linux than Windows.
Yes, 1, 2, and 3 are "my fault". But given the choice of using my software or screwing around with configurations, I'll reboot.
Has anyone else noticed that this question is now the number one active story on slashdot supassing the previous number one of 2722 comments by Pledge of Allegiance Ruled Unconstitutional?
Ztree Win. Until Kim Henkel does a version for Linux I'd be lost without it. http://www.ztree.com
I have two boxes set up next to each other. One XP (going back to 2k this week) and one Redhat. I use windows because I'm used to it, and because it doesn't take 2 weeks and the reading of 2000 lines of configuration in /etc to start a new program. Linux is stable, so I used it as a server, but you can't beat the .NET/Visual Studio environment, Outlook Express is far cleaner than anything I've seen on Linux, and, realistically, there are about 100 programs I used regularly that just don't exist on Linux. Sorry, but it's a question of 'right tool, right job'. If more/better software were available for linux, I'd go there in a second. If I could run *all* windows s/w on linux, I'd go there in a second. Until then...
It actually doesn't need to copy the songs. Have a look at the preferences and you can turn that off. iPhoto, though, is another matter.
That is the question. Sell me on it. Why would I possibly want to give up my Windows XP box? I paid $149 for an OS that is INCREDIBLY stable and has a massive software base. The applications I want to use are not available (nor are there "stand-ins" even) under Linux.
Microsoft is a business. They sell a product that works very well for me.
Aside from a) "A UNIX environment" and b) smugness, what's Linux's selling point? Why _WOULD_ I bother to switch?
Love Anonymous,
UNIX Sysadmin of 10 years now
There is no visual baisc
Turbo pascal
Novell login client
Paint.exe
Dreamweaver
Those apps are what i use at my college, ant if they were avalibe we could switch.
Running Windows, my Presario 1700 XL actually cools itself. Since APCI for Linux isn't quite there it, and no "Fan On" application exists for my hardware, the thing heats up to an uncomfortable temp. The CPU cover on the laptop case is even warped from the heat. Other then that, I run Linux on my servers and APM based laptops.
Until fairly recently there was no linux voice client like Roger Wilco. There is something called teamspeak that I use now and it has a Linux client. Every time I go 100% windows-free I end up buying a game that is DirectX or doesn't have a Linux port. The latest is Warcraft 3. Right now thats the only thing keeping me from going 100% windows-free. ALl my other machines are Linux or Solaris and at work I use Linux on the desktop and Solaris on my servers...
======== In the future, everything will be artificial. ========
lunix sux0rz
Is due to whining geeks struggling on their out dated debian boxen. PAY FOR A REAL DISTRO, like mandrake, whihc detects all my hard ware PERFECTLY now, its fast effiecnt, and it can be installed over FTP like debian, but its actually UP TO DATE, and i have every application i need for my work. TRY MANDRAKE COOKER, you WILL BE SURPRISED AT MODERN LINUX! And not that stupid debian crap
I like windows. 2k is rock solid stable, runs great, and does what i want it to. gee isnt that what all you people love about linux? get off your high damn horses.
Somewhere I read the top 10 things the Linux community needed to achieve to increase market penetration. I found most of the items applied to me.
What drove me away last time I tried to convert:
1. Changing the screen resolution was a bitch. I'm a CS student and very interrested in Unix and a staunch supporter of Software Libre, but such an easy setting requiring such pretzels just irritated me to no end.
2. Installing programs. This can be very hard. Usually I can manage, but c'mon, package conflicts are not problems my gramma or my mother could handle. I have yet to check out Autopackage (I think that's the name of it).
3. There are some programs that I would miss, but usually there's an alternative.
I look foreward to the day when I make my Win98SE redundant and remove the bugger from my system.
I am the Barber of Seville.
Skip IRC and chat rooms. These people are not only unhelpful when it comes to Linux, they are unhelpful and full of four letter words in general. That's why parents hate their kids hanging out there.
If you want to learn to use Linux, the best thing you can do for yourself is consult http://groups.google.com early and often. Every question you can think to ask has already been answered there any number of times. You can plug in your problem and get your answer instantly from one of the developers, rather than from some chump in a chat room.
It's an incredible tool that too few users know about.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Getting Linux and its apps to do what I want (work) takes up alot of my time; I then have to switch between it and Windoze to do work, which wastes more of my time. Thats why I run windoze most of the time; to simply get things done in one place.
OSX is what Linux should be; with it, we can run all the apps we need (professional sound apps, graphics, publishing), it has painless font support, a shell, and all the related command line tools on one machine at one time.
Linux can still become attractive in the future, if the developers of the main distros spend more time on the things people want. If they dont, everyone is going to end up switching to OSX, since its "here now", painless and powerful. After that, no one will ever need to switch to Linux, because everyones demands will be satisfied, from developers down to the lowest common denominator user.
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
United Devices Agent is supported only on Windows. WineX solution is a mess and sucks resources. Onother reason prefering Windows is my ancient display using 640x480. Most apps over X simply cannot be used with a low resolution screen/display. Virtual desktop is not as conviniet as bare Win GUI in 640x480.
Sorry, but for me, the "killer app" is Microsoft Access. I currently make a living developing Access databases, and while most of the rest of the Office apps are spoofed/ported to other platforms, I still have yet to find anything to read/write .mdb files.
Also, for Mac OS X, the other factor is money. I can't afford to drop more than $100-$200 per year into my system. If I could buy a better OS for that amount and use it on my current hardware, I'd consider it. But, I can't afford to lay down 4-figures on an experiment that won't run even run the software I need to earn a living.
-Rob
- Rob Cottrell
Not only the games themselves keep me on Windows, but hardware like the Radeon 9700 or a Audigy gamer are only fully useful when using windows drivers and games. The hardware industry kinda sucks in the way that they focus on hardware and drivers based only windows. This is horribly evident with modems. Has anyone ever gotten the average $10 modem to work in Linux? Of course, if I really want to get some work done though I crank up Mandrake, then KSpread, and don't have to worry about silly vbs viruses while i am just trying to make a spreadsheet :/
I formatted a 4 gig partition on m disk, just for Mandrake 8.2. It installed just fine.
But every time I star it up it complaint 'Cannot connect to root try to edit etc\host it should fix it'
Fine by me. But as I cant connect to the root, I cant edit that damn file.
So fuck it... If you think i'll download another distro to have that kind of shit. I know I know I had to make a phone call to activate my XP, but it was quick, easy, and i'll be damned if I didnt change my video card 2 time now with no apparent complaint from XP. Try to do that on Linux without spending 2 hours looking on IRC and Google for howto and stupid tarball
(that fucking need a nice GUI btw. A Google on "Tarball decompressor GUI" actually return a link to Winzip! People that claim that they switched 'their parent, friend and familly' to Linux are bullshitter. My mom is on XP and she just got the hang of winzip. Imagine command line tarballing!)
Linux people makes me think of the Amiga crowd in the old day. Every looked pretty and was cooler than the Mac interface, but for the sake of god nthing worked. But they didnt mind, THEY knew how to mount ram drive and fiddle with startup script. Urg
For a Corporation. Microsoft is more user friendly than linux where you have to have an extensive knowledge base. OS X looks reallly good, but its not cost effective to switch EVERY computer over to a MAC when the rest of the machine are Windows based. :P and the linux desktops are not user friendly at all :P
As Far as myself, i use Windows XP for mirc and Games, im trying to switch to linux as my primary right now, and have windows installed only for games. I have to say though, i really hate xchat
Well, this is comment 2776, so what does that mean exactly? It means that this has just become the most active story that has ever been on /.
Pretty cool ehh?
I haven't seen much talk yet on the "multiple home user" angle.
At work I run RH 8; if I need to run windows stuff I fire up crossover office or vmware. I'm a UNIX system Admin. and php programmer, and running windows would really hurt my productivity.
At home we have Windows 2000 partially because of games but more so because my wife would not have been happy on Linux, so the desktop runs 2K and the antique laptop stays on 95.
If it were me I'm sure I'd be just on Linux or a dual-boot for games. My work machine is a fraction of the speed of my home machine, but it just works better for me. Crossover Office and Cr. Plugins take care of everything else I need from the windows platform.
(Plus, It sure sucks to be on ugly old Windows after a day on Gnome 2..)
The GIMP is a superb photo-editing tool that has already replaced Corel Photo-PAINT!, which is what I used to use on Windows, but what I need is a GIMP-like replacement for CorelDRAW! itself.
I've tried several of the Free/Open vector drawing packages that're available - OpenOffice.org's Draw component, Sketch, xfig, kontour, and so on - but none of them have had all the features I'm looking for. The closest I've come across is OpenOffice.org, but I can't say as I'm a fan of the way its menu system is constructed; tools I need, such as grid placement and duplication, are either buried in a submenu I don't usually look for them in, or are handled differently than I'd like. (I want duplication to be handled by a simple Ctrl+D, not just the dialog box that asks how many times I want to copy the selection. A simple cut and paste does the same job, but my sensibilities see that as having one unnecessary step.)
So far, the best solution I've been able to find is Win4Lin, which let me run CorelDRAW! flawlessly. Unfortunately, I've since upgraded my system to a new distribution - I was running Mandrake, but now I'm in with the Libranet crowd - and in the interim I somehow allowed the CD envelope containing Win4Lin's registration key to be thrown out. It's not like I can contact Netraverse for a new one, because of the obvious conclusion they'll draw, and I am NOT going to shell out another eighty bucks for the want of one tiny little scrap of paper... so, at the moment, the only way I can use CorelDRAW! is to reboot to Windows, or try running it under WINE (which I don't entirely trust - for some reason on my system, when it crashes it tends to take X along for the ride). So, I'm looking at native *nix alternatives.
Any suggestions?
you can call me of a dual voice. this is because i run windows through vmware. there are some things i simply cant do on *nix: some uni software only runs on windows! anywho...i use linux all the time, for just about everything, including games (i don't play too much, so there are enough for me) and use windows through vmware. so...why can't everyone be getting the best of both worlds??
BSD is for people who love UNIX. Linux is for those who hate Microsoft.
Well, the fact that I have a 14.4k net connection at home is a big part of it.... It makes it a pain to download the latest kernel sources .... or to download the lib that **** needs... Or to keep up to date in the ever changing open source world.
I do run Windows on my 1.6ghz machine (dual boot with Slackware), and I run Slack on my 333mhz machine *and soon will be running a distro on my xbox*.... But I find myself using Windows more and more ALL because of this connection.
At school in my A+ Technician class I run linux... the T1 makes it a sweet expierience...
Btw, I'm not using a 14.4 modem, it's my phone lines. I already tried to get DirecWay, they couldn't install it due to too many trees on and off my property. DSL and Cable not available ....
--pSyCo www.consolevision.com www.xemulation.com
The most active story on slashdot ever will have been a story asking "why do you use microsoft" which caused thousands of secretly guilty windows users to pour out of the woodwork to explain to us . . . that not using windows involved a little work or inconvience so they didn't do it.
Most pathetic display ever. It's like a slave explaining that he didn't run away north because he heard you have to go to a lot of places to apply for jobs up there, and the work comes to him down here.
In a well run, efficient society, these people would not be allowed to have computers.
Appz, Gui, drivers
The main reason I use Windows is that I get free copies of the latest versions from work, and it's all legit. Gotta love corporate licenses.
JasonBlogs
lol i just want to get this article as #1 in hof. lollerskates.
I've had quite the opposite experience, being amazed at how welcoming and helpful the linux irc channels are. Of course there's the occasional asshole or even channel full of assholes, but it's no more common than it is for Windows software. Just look at how much Mplayer got/gets bashed for being assholes to newbies...
...for lack of a well-developed vector editor on linux. Sodipodi and Sketch are promising, but it will take a while before I can fully migrate to any of them. I think Wine will become capable of running Xara earlier (it ALMOST can run it, as of now, but the remaining problems still render it unusable under Wine).
Also, speaking of open formats: the publisher I work for requires camera-ready pages in PDF, but only Acrobat PDF with their mandated settings. They are quite strict about that. So I produce PS in Linux and only reboot to Windows to convert it to PDF in Acrobat.
This article has become the most active story ever on Slashdot. Click the "hof" link on the left.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
.. is the lack of _good_ alternatives for _personal_ computers.
.... Uh, whatever. Move along. :)
Linux (and any other developed Unix) is way too complicated (too). Period. I, personally, have spent many, many man/months trying to find my ways (and that pays off), but well - one's time is not a renewable resource. You don't take a multi-user server OS (by nature) with GUI that's running over sockets and make it
OK, let me qualify this by starting off and saying that it's technically possible to write a wrapper library for SDL and OpenGL for about 75-90% of DirectX (that's basically what the WineX guys do, near as I can tell). Here are the problems with doing so:
1) I seriously doubt that anyone can get all of the (current) DirectX API without running into IP suits. Granted, that hasn't really stopped the WINE crowd or the WineX guys, but eventually even they'll run into a patent violation suit...
2) Performance. The Linux and BSD kernels are pretty radically different from the WinXX/NT kernels. If you'll recall, MS had some issues with DX over v3 on the NT4 platform, which has a few of the same user/kernel separation that your run-of-the-mill *nix kernel has. (Flame warriors, forgive me for comparing the two. Yes, I realize that the NT kernel moved display drivers into kernelspace, killing stability, and that various Unices have some form or another of Direct Rendering. I'm talking about the whole enchilada here, not just display output...) I would imagine that writing a libdirectx would be no easier/harder than the construction of libwine.so, with many of the same hurdles, plus one or two. DX has a shorter "upgrade" delay than, say, the MFC or ATL libraries, it's quite an ugly moving target... Second off, how likely do you think it is that every inch of the DX API is documented? That, too, may change slowly with the court ruling, but I'm willing to bet that more than a few functions out of the API are not documented...
3) You'd also have to implement at least portions of COM/DCOM. It's difficult to say how much of it is already usable from WINE (I'm sure that they've gotten into some of the reimplementation details by now), but there would have to be considerably more developed to get excellent performance out of it.
So, I figure your best odds on getting a DirectX port over to *nix is to pick a major distro, and see if the WineX guys are hiring...
Not intended to be flammable, just my $.02...
You are doing something wrong. Most likely you are doing something stupid like converting an 8-bit GIF to a 24-bit PNG. Use 8-bit PNG.
Download ImageMagic and do:
convert image.gif image.png
I did this on my web page to OVER 100 various GIFs, and EVERY SINGLE PNG was smaller than the GIF, usually by about 30%.
I save huge amounts of bandwidth using PNGs instead of GIFs.
(None of my GIFs have transparency or animation).
I hope we can all agree that most people, the majority being non-technical, believe there is more to life than troubleshooting OS problems. However, it usually takes a traumatic experience to incite a user to make the switch. Most of the MAC television ads that I have seen on the tube (not the Net) focus on such OS crashes. It's interesting that the themes expressed in the recent MAC do not apply to the latest incarnation of Windows, XP. Apple is targeting users of Windows Me and earlier releases (since most home users never ran Win2k). Those early Windows revs do crash regularly, but OS-switching takes a certain level of sophistication that the mass market of PC-users does not possess. Apple of course is not offering an OS upgrade to Windows users, but a complete hardware/software platform switch. Apple has a fair infrastructure in place to support their platform. Linux as a Market Force is so fractured, I can't imagine that all the king's horses and all the king's men could ever put it back together again. Ah, but that is the rub, Linux never really was a Mass-Market Force to be reckoned with. Macs were to some extent, but Apple dropped the ball by not focusing on the ubiquity of there OS / approach to computing hardware. Macs are still in the game but they have nary a chance of competing with Windows until you can get a MAC experience using what has been traditionally "Windows" (and now Linux) hardware. MS knows this, so here comes XP, their first attempt to bridge this gap, and it is succeeding. The Linux/Unix world's best chance right now to compete is to make the Linux-based (or is Unix-based?) Mac OS X marketable to users of Windows XP, which means getting the likes of Dell and Gateway to create a Mac experience with their own hardware. Then there is still the hurdle of applications. This is not likely to succeed if it ever gets off the ground. The Linux world's best chance in the future is to predict the paradigm shift and make it happen, but this too will not happen. The shift I am referring to is the inevitable move to 100% mobile computing. The Tablet PC is the first step in that direction and Microsoft has a large head start on this, although I think I read that some vendors were loading a flavor of Linux on a tablet or two. Linux was not developed with the Market in mind. Money did not motivate Linus Torvalds and I quite frankly don't believe Linux will ever be able to succeed in a Capitalist marketplace (on the Desktop) UNLESS it is evolved by developers and project managers who give a @#$@! about the marketplace. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Bringing software (let alone an OS) to market and having it succeed is daunting, regardless of how good it is. Witness BeOS, which I was very interested in until I saw that it essentially was castrated in the marketplace. That is of course why the antitrust proceedings against MS were so important. Unfortunately the outcome of that case and the move towards more conservative government in the U.S. will make it that much more difficult to compete. I could go on, but there is truly is more to life, and clearly I need to get one.
I meant to type gnome-toaster instead, which is the GUI frontend for cdrecord. I don't know what I was thinking. Sorry about that - I do know better than that, really.
Gnome-toaster home page
X is too much of a pain in the ass for desktop users. XF86Config files are way over most people's heads. Font configuration is a nightmare, and without some tweaking fonts look like shit in X.
Which is why is should all be done by the system admin, none of it should be touched by individual users. Thats sort of why you have to login as root to play with any of this stuff...
To really get Linux on the desktops of Lusers, X has to be replaced by something entirely intended for desktops.
The success, or not, of Linux in the "desktop" marketplace holds absolutely no interest for me and a whole bunch of other people. Why do people persist in saying it has to?
Al.The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker
PNGs are almost always smaller than the same GIF, and usually significantly so, if converted directly. I recommend ImageMagick.
A few notes to be aware of:
- USE 8-BIT PNG. GIF images are 8-bit. Loading them into an image editor and then trying to resave them as 24-bit PNGs will make them bigger.
- Adobe Photoshop adds useless "comment" information into a PNG file that makes all their GIFs slightly larger (something like "created with Adobe").
- Earlier versions of Adobe Photoshop (e.g. 5) did not export PNG correctly, and created overly large PNGs.
ImageMagick consistently produces the smallest PNGs of anything I've tried.
NOTE: If it seems strange to anyone that a PNG file size can differ depending on the program used to create it, but still be a valid PNG, its because of the way PNG compression works. PNG has a number of built-in compressors. It compresses each SCANLINE (row) of an image using the compressor that happens to work best for that particular scanline. So if a scanline compresses best with compressor number 3, the scanline will begin with a value indicating that it uses compressor 3 for that scanline. A PNG file reader then knows how to uncompress that scanline. However, some earlier software did not correctly choose the BEST compressors to use for each scanline, and used unoptimal compressors, but still valid.
Its more complicated than this, but that is the general idea.
Context: I admin networks for a day job. I troubleshoot, maintain, and build computers/networks. I don't want to take my job home with me.
1. Simplicity. From day one, I don't have to admin a WinXX system, I just buy the damn thing and it works. If I want a piece of s/w, I just download the package and double-click it. Instant gratification, I love it.
2. Support. If I want to make my *nix work and don't know the deep dark Sacred Secrets of The *Nix Acolytes, I can spend a half hour digging through man pages or groups.google.com looking for a solution, and then another half hour trying to figure out why my particular distro doesn't have the same directory in the same place, or how to edit the necessary file. My first run with SuSE (also my first *nix) was a disaster!
In WinXX, 99% of all admin function is simple: point, click, done. Fairly intuitive, and I've never had to spend more than a couple minutes hunting for info or performing the actual task.
**Bonus points go to WinXX for ease of use**
**-100 Points to OSS on the grounds that support, quite frankly, sucks. Despite being a computer literate and generally self-motivated user, the biggest chunk of the OSS-admin population says, "You need help with X? RTFM. And when you RTFM and still don't find what you need? RTFM Again. And then don't bother asking us 'cause we're too 733t 4u. Check out the RTFM-howto at ldp."**
3. Games. I know, I know. Wine. Transgaming. Yada yada yada. Do I want to visit some website, download a package, then figure out how to install it for my specific distro, only to have it break because I have outdatedLibxx, have to dl the new lib, have it break half a dozen other functions because they require outdatedLibxx, search google, recompile, try again, ARRRRGH! No. I want to put in a CD, have the neat little menu pop up, saying "Install GameXX". I then want it to install, and RUN. No tweaks, no hacks, no "shit, I forgot to foo my bar!".
4. Integration. Show of hands, please: How many websites have you visited where your browser was unable to properly load the page? A plug-in? I thought so. Yea, I realize that IE is really off-standard and that if everyone would just design to standard, it would all be ok. Do I care? No. Again, I just want it to work. This planet currently holds something like 6 billion people, any of whom could at some point view him/her/itself as Web God Incarnate. You think they care about standards? *Chuckle at your expense*.
5. Overall Merits/Flaws. SuSE kept dropping my internet connection immediately after connecting. I spent better than 5 hours searching man pages and google and SuSE.com and #SuSE for an answer. You know what? There isn't one. I tweaked configs, I tweaked configs, I tweaked configs. Exhausted, i tried Mandrake (the *happy shiny User Friendly distro(tm)*). Nice, I could connect. Guess what? Mandrake Update was broken, out of the box. Now, with a broken Updater, how the hell are you supposed to get the fix?? Again, turn to google, mandrake.com, google again, tweak tweak tweak... nothing. Thus ended my *nix days. Now I run XP Pro on a fast, powerful DELL (time for all you built-it-myself zealots to recoil in horror...), and I've logged better than 60 days uptime. (Only had the machine a couple of months, now. In a year, I fully expect to be reporting 365 uptime).
Have programs crashed? Every once in a while. Is it frequent? Not even close. I have a program stop responding about once a week. Have all my mp3s been wrecked by DRM? Nope. I still have a huge library, and it still plays. My games work? You bet your ass. WCIII is awesome with every little visual option turned on. MS-Phone-Home? Not on your life. Zone Alarm PRO keeps MS in check. Simply tell it not to let certain traffic out, and I'm good to go.
TO SUMMARIZE: *Nix can bite my ass for the next four or five years. When it has matured some more, and the developers really begin to migrate to it, THEN I'll look back into it. But while M$ maintains a stranglehold on the consumer market, I'll stick with the Evil Empire rather than die a rebel scumbag on some backwater planet in a galaxy far, far away.
Only two things keep me tied to Windows, and I'm dying for decent replacements of them both.
On the work side, there's Microsoft Access. I support numerous applications written in it; it is actually a terrific database front-end development tool (though a lousy database back-end, of course). Fastest & easiest to build forms & reports -- the reporting engine rocks. I've replaced everything else on my Windows desktop with opensource alternatives (excepting music stuff, see below) -- Openoffice for word processing, Mozilla for browsing, cygwin for the "command prompt", vim for text editing. All superior to their MS analogues, and all free.
As soon as Crossover gets Access working under linux, I'm ready to switch, from a programming career point of view.
BTW, I think MS made a fatal blunder making their new file formats xml-based. I fully expect file-compatibile workalikes for MS Access once that technology hits the street. It would be possible today to write an import/export tool that moved most of the gui to & from access, so maybe mono would have a use after all!
The other thing shackling me to Windows -- a more personal thing -- is Soundforge. I'm a musician, and I have *tons* of plugins. There are linux-based sound editors out there, but no one supports the VST plugin format, so I have a huge investment that can't easily be ported (and believe me, good plugins for audio filtering are *not* all the same).
I do run linux on my laptop, which I primarily use for writing. And I do lots of linux-based programming (my current project is a jboss application on top of an oracle database running on a redhat server).
I do believe it's just a matter of time before there are viable linux alternatives to these two sticking points for me -- MS Access and Soundforge. But until there are, I have compelling motivations to stick to Windows, at least on one machine.
I use Cakewalk Sonar for midi sequencing and audio recording. I have not found any Linux software that even comes close to its features. I tried to install MidiMountain, which is just a midi sequencer, but I could not get it to compile. Until there is an equivalent Linux app, with support for soundfonts and third-party DXi and VST plugins, I am forced to stick with Windows.
The subject says it all.
I've been a Quicken user for a long, long time.
There is no Quicken for Linux.
That said: There's Lindows, Wine and the like,
but these have been unstable, wont do Quicken,
Quicken moves forward too often (I stay one release behind Quicken's bleeding edge intentionally).
Now, there's inertia. I run Win2K. This will be
my last release of Windows. WinXP's license terms
for private use are too onerous, the risks of
having MS do updates to my machine are unacceptable. And the biggest is that my employer, all 85000+ seats, is abandoning Windows for Linux as a desktop; they've already done the server side.
I expect to be all Linux with Windows emulation for Quicken by mid 2003. My at work machine is already Linux.
I have a Windows 2000 Desktop for games, a Windows 2000 Laptop (with a small 1gb linux partition) and a FreeBSD file server in my house.
Now you can talk about converting things to windows like NWN and UT2003, but i think what linux lacks in the games department is support for any mmorpgs. Im currently addicted to neocron, and i would run mac os 9 if thats what it required.
On my laptop i need wireless internet access whereveer i go. I have 3G cdma by verizon, which has 0 linux support. In fact 3G is the only thing holding me back from a fully linux laptop.
Won't you be my my neighbor?
Entertainment. Linux sucks at giving me entertainment. Windows is great for it.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
We can hit 3k!
Don't forget that many of us are reading Slashdot while at work. My boses will definitely NOT let me do an install of Linux on this machine.
I second PSX29's sentiment. What I need is the ability to display and input Asain characters (for me, Chinese and Japanese) in the applications I use. That means I need to read/write Chinese/Japanese in my email program, in my web browser, and also in my word process. Let's not leave out my instant messager and my graphics program (photoshop, etc).
.. :-(
The Windows world is not perfect; indeed I find myself cursing it daily. However, for me, until I have at least the Asian language support I get in Windows in Linux, I can't make the switch
Luohua
It's not that they don't look and feel the same. I personally think there's a more fundamental problem, and that problem is X.
:)
X was designed, from the start, to be a low-level API to allow different types of UNIX windowing systems to interoperate. It was designed to be quick on the hardware of that day, which was monochrome or paletted, and speedy across network connections like 300 baud. It was designed with the intention of people writing cheap toolkits for it, toolkits like Motif, that were low-bandwidth.
Now why did they go with the client-side toolkit idea? There are a few reasons. One is because the target machine wasn't always of the same architecture, and porting the library to another architecture could be a pain. Another is that it took more bandwidth to transfer the library to the user's side than it did to just send the basic drawing instructions.
Nowadays, we have two solutions to the first problem; we can either use a VM to run our libraries, or we can just compile it for them. (This is where Autoconf, Automake and libtool come in handy.) Worse comes to worst, we can have a fallback that uses an X remeniscient remote painting facility, if they don't have the tk installed.
The second problem is obsolete. Toolkits are now being themed, which means that we have huge numbers of image files being used to "paint" interfaces. If the machine that's the X server isn't the same as the X client, then these images are painted on the client and sent over the network to the server. Eek. Also, these are typically images that aren't natively supported by X (X only supports paletted images) so we need to use an extension, so programmers have some cruft to worry about, here, too. (ie; What if the extension's supported, but poorly, and it fails halfway through the call?)
Now don't tell me that we need to do things this way, because we don't. In the latest release of Windows, XP now has that level of network transparency. If you want to access your home computer's apps from work, it's as simple as logging into it from work. Instantly, your home drives appear in your explorer, and you can access windows on the screen of your home box.
Now why am I making such a big deal about this, you ask? Well, it's because they're not just taking a screenshot of the desktop and sending it. They've taken a page from X's book, and they send the higher-level commands over the network. Essentially, GDI calls. And, from what I understand, you end up with a consistant interface on the accessing end, because it uses the accessor's theme set.
Now this is just my rant about X's networking components. If you want to get into XFree86, I can tell you that I'm not at all pleased with the way they've set it up. X should not be the video driver. When I start my machine, I should not have to load X in order for my graphics card driver to be loaded. It should be loaded, waiting and ready to be accessed, by any application.
The way I see it, the system should come up by loading the graphics driver. It should be a process that's always running. Then there should be a standard library through which anyone can access the graphics driver. The card's state should be in the driver, not X! The driver should be in charge of the card, not X! X should be just another application that people can run to get a windowing environment.
The closest I can find to this idea, right now, is the libGGI/libGII/kgi people. They've got a basic framework for their API down, but it only works with a limited number of cards, and only one of those uses acceleration features so far. If that API were expanded for full 3D support, and a few more recent cards could be added to that list, or bumped up to full acceleration, I think we'd all be a lot better off. Heck, they've already got an Xggi server written--they've had it for years.
As for X on the desktop, GNOME had to hack a CORBA ORB to get the functionality that Windows provides for free. For X, the lack of standardization in the 3rd party object components department has been a huge pain in the ass for anyone interested in combining a KDE part with a GNOME widget in the same program. You end up having to port one of them the other way. If X could be made to have it's own object tracking extension, that would help bandaid the solution, but I think it's just a symptom of a much bigger problem.
X is old. It shows. We need something new; I say make X a plugin for whatever new windowing system we use tomorrow, and that we get started on making that new one soon.
If we want to put a GNU system on every desktop, X as the windowing system just isn't the right solution anymore.
And with that, I think I'm done.
The exact error I was writing about in my post is : UNMOUNTABLE_BOOT_VOLUME .
Microsoft has a support page about it.
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
Well, the thing that keeps me in contact with windows at least part of the time is the fact that they run NT 4 on all of the computers at school, and the administators of the network avoid open source and unix like the plague. They don't even know (most of them) what linux is. I have to show them what it is! As far as home goes, there are five people in my house...my parents, my sisters, and myself. At home, the reasoning behind having the windows boxen that i have on my network is because everybody is addicted to windows, as they are afraid of change. For my sisters (and partly myself, although not much anymore since school has started up), it's games. Very few of the games they play are released for linux. For my dad the Electrical Engineer, it's a simple matter of the way he was introduced to the computing world... Windows is for home and business (management), and Unix/Linux is for development and Design stuff. I have been lucky enough to have been given a second hand SparcStation 5, and i use Solaris 7 with that almost exclusively. There is the issue of getting IM running, and my palm to sync to it...and MP3's to play. I know it's possible, but i don't have time to tinker, so i have a small crap-top running Win98 next to the workstation. It works exclusively for Palm Pilot Sync, MP3 playing, and AOLIM (one at a time...multi-tasking isn't possible for that combination of old hardware and bloated software). Even then, it just barely works...it's old.
I use unix almost exclusively, with just a bit of windows mixed in (although i don't like it). Hopefully, when i get my box for college, i will be able to either get a Mac w/ OS X, or throw linux on it. A dual boot for the latter option is not out of the question since the unfortunate truth is that the world runs on Windows....
Peace...
izm
Games!!!
Oh, and yes, I have managed to coble together a Linux system with either a free Linux version, in the case of Quake II, or a pieced together version of Wine/WineX/Codeweavers Wine. But, it's MUCH easier to install a decent version of windows, i.e. 2000 or even XP, PLUS whatever game in the same amount of time it takes you to download all the latest patches, updates, tarballs and whatnot needed to even get close to a game running on Linux. Now an opengl accelerated game on Linux? grrrrr
Applications!!!
Face it, everyone uses Microsoft Office. This is a fact. I do feel that this can change, but it will not be overnight, like, the change from WordPerfect to MS Word. If anyone remembers that, you can recall that everyone used WordPerfect, it was THE standard in wordprocessing. Now guess what, Word has completely replaced it, and you know why it replaced it so relatively quickly? I'm not sure with the latest version, but I do recall Word 2.0 up to 2000 being able to open those old Wordperfect files no problem. So, what would need to happen in order for Word to be dethroned? Perhaps a multiplatform, wordprocessor that can open all those legacy Word files. StarOffice? it's getting there. I haven't been able to get Openoffice working yet, but I will give it a try soon, and see how it's progressing. Anyhow, that's just my $.02.
Corporate Standards!!!!
I am forced to use MS Windows at work, due to company policy, but could perform my job equally as well with a Linux workstation. I have even asked if I could install it in a dual boot, but was nixed. So I'll contend with using an Exceed desktop through one of our Unix servers.
Your friendly, local Unix System Admin at your service.
"We're gonna need a bigger boat"
i don't know what everyone else thinks but i worked in a print shop for quite some time, and people brought us all sorts of files all the time. we used photoshop and other adobe products commonly, such as pagemaker...it was considered stupid to print from photoshop. adobe knows this, they expect you to put it in some sort of layout software (they'd prefer you use pagemaker or something of course) and then print it. if you try printing raw graphics like that you will be in for a surprise, which is it doesn't look like you want it to. even if you have really good printer drivers you will want it to be centered better, or scaled differently, or perhaps cropped. anyway so i'm not surprised the gimp's printing controls aren't very good, they almost shouldn't be.
and to all of you bitching about the gimp, so what if the interface is a little different? i really like the ability to have all my menus next to my mouse! it's just a lot less mousing. my mouse travels miles every day as it is, and this interface "flaw" as you all call it saves me a lot of mousing and gets my photos edited quicker. otherwise, the rest of the interface is almost exactly like photoshop. if you can't figure it out then you're just plain not cut out for photo editing, don't blame it on the gimp. it's great software and beer free to boot.
It's said over and over "Nobody's going to make drivers and software for an os that is only used by 1% of the market"
However when I go looking for server hardware (Statistics show Linux has the majority market in servers) I see Windows NT hardware only (The less than 1% in servers) Nothing for Solarus (Linux is pushing Solarus out of the market) nothing for BSD (a strong contender) just Windows NT.
I use Linux religously but often I find hardware makers refuse to make specs available so I have to shop around and use my wireless palm to do netsearches while at the store to see if the hardware on the shelf has available Linux drivers.
And that palm itself is a problem.
I use a handspring visor not an actual palm but still palm os. I have to be careful that the hardware I get for it dosen't need support from the desktop as there may not be a Linux driver.
Mom got a palm i705 and often Palm relases software updates that only work on Windows.
I fix this by taking moms Palm to work install the updates and return it to her.
But I'm douptful many will go so far out of the way to insure Linux support is available before buying new hardware.
Most gammers tell me they can't use Linux becouse the populare game titles often don't have Linux couterparts.
I favor free software but thats one reason I use Linux religously. I just don't want to pay for software and with Linux I don't have to.
And for me thats reason enough to bend over backwards to make sure the hardware works on Linux. I'm simply not buying the Windows counterpart to use the hardware the way I want.
Becouse Linux hardware is PC hardware I'm sure many Linux users buy PC hardware to find no Linux drivers or specs and so they have little choice.
Thankfully for me some people are even more fanatical and actually reverse engenere hardware to make drivers.
With out them I doupt I'd have any drivers for most of the hardware I use now.
I don't actually exist.
That's pretty funny... I'm out of mod points and don't even know why it's letting me post here, but this is top-notch.
LMFAO!
Counter-Strike, and nothing else.
GNU/Linux is not an option because it
a) does crash more often than Win2k
b) has a lower fps than the 30fps I can
achieve on Win2k (S3 Twister-K)
OpenBSD, which I use for everything else,
does support the S3 quite well, too, but
unluckily, WINE does not run on it since 1999.
My Karma isn't excellent, damn it! (And
...first, I play a lot of games. I know that every new game coming out will be supported under Windows, and that I can still play all the games I have that date back to DOS days. (Yes, I maintain an older computer just for that reason.)
Second, Windows applications (Read: Office) are the same that I have at work. I can work on stuff at home if I have to. Same goes with school. Compatibility is important.
Third, learning curve. I'm not a stranger to other OS's, but Windows, for the most part, works good enough for me (at least since XP Pro). There's not a compelling reason for me to switch to another OS and learn, not just the foibles of that OS, but of whatever apps I need to use with it. Given the time and money already invested, I would really need a compelling reason to switch platforms.
"A book is a loaded gun in the house next door." - Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451.
Dreamers, shapers, singers, makers... Elric, the Techno-Mage
i like my games on windows
i like photoshop
i like homesite
Simple as that. I code for Linux (servers) every day at work, so I have a pretty good knowledge of the Linux platform, and it's horrible as far as I am concerned. Very primitive.
Simple as that. If free software had been better (and properly supported and quality assured) I would use it myself. And MacOS X would be WAY to expensive for me to get (the useless hardware is WAY to expensive).
Pornzilla/
4 84
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/aufbau01
The whole concept amuses me.
A better porn browser just happens to be a better browser in general.
Leech for Mozilla
http://leech.mozdev.org/
Neet, makes downloading lots of files much easier.
And a thumbnail gallery listing
http://thehun.net
or google to find something.
If you want to try* and make money off of porn this might also be of interst.
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/10/29/9314/1
* try winning your state lottery, the odds are probably better.
GQview is a fairly good thumbnail browser and has a really useful compare images feature, you can reasonbly easily find and remove duplicates.
Who needs IMDB when you have CNDB!
http://cndb.com
terrible colour scheme but once you have gotten over the initial suprise and amusement that someone actually put this thing together it can actually be useful.
The Porn HOWTO would definately need to have a large Image Viewing as well as Movie viewing howto.
bleuch, boring, pr0n what a waste of time, better things to be doing. FAT porn should be banned
FIrst ever!!!!
I am relying less and less on Windows 2000 as time goes by. I have it in its own partition with the very proprietary programs for which I have no Linux equivalent at this point, and there are quite a few!
Open Office, Opera, Mozilla, et al, are proving to be very nice counterparts/alternatives to M$FT products. I am not buying new M$FT products, nor do I plan to upgrade to XP unless forced to do so for some reason (work, etc.)
You state that you have gone to Mac.....you are now locked into not only proprietary software...it's the hardware, too. I am no more a fan of Steve Jobs than I am of Gates/Ballmer/Mundie...! So, Mac, even OSX, is no option for me...it's just grossly overpriced hardware.
Cathy
Linux sucks
BSD is dying
Steven King is dead at 54
100 to go! The ultimate trolling wet dream is almost here!
This is pathetic (Score:0)
by gnillort (myslashdotemailaccount@yahoo.com) on Saturday November 16, @10:54AM (#4685513)
(User #617577 Info | Last Journal: Wednesday October 23, @07:53PM) Rather than get rid of the influence of Vlad crapflooding and the cabal/AVT/CUNT/CLIT/Klerck crapflooding, yo [slashdot.org]u fatasses sit here. I have a perfectly good alternative [ezboard.com] all set up. Why not give it a try? [ Reply to This | Parent ] YOOOOU ARE TEH GAY! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:42AM (#4685454) In A.D. 2002
Faggotry was beginning.
AV3: What happen?
Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt
Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant
AV3: What!
Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard
AV3: It's You!!
Vlad: How are you fagmasters!!
Vlad: All your females are belong to us
Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids
AV3: What you say!!
Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your pole
Vlad: HA HA HA HA....
AV3: Take off every 'cockring'
AV3: You know what you doing
AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'
AV3: For great justice
[ Reply to This | Parent ] January 1st, 2003: daily countdown. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @07:01AM (#4684935) The countdown: 45 days [ Reply to This | Parent ] trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:49AM (#4684907) who on earth could have brought such a sudden tidal-wave of vitality back to this cruddy excuse for a secret sid? why, momochrome of course! only his brilliance could possibly have re-invigorated such a sad state of degeneracy and breathed new life back into this feeble excuse for a troll collective.
All hail momochrome! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:59AM (#4684931) Also, the "tidal-wave of vitality" had been ongoing for quite some time before Mr. Momochrome became overcome with jealousy that people were talking about someone other than him and thus decided to throw his hat into the ring. He's nothing. A washed-up has-been. Nowadays, who even remembers who Momochrome was? I sure don't fucking remember, and I've been into the Slashdor troll-scene hardcore since before the scene existed. Momochrome was a one-line footnote on page 4,275 of the history of trolling, and most people didn't even bother to read that page, let alone the footnotes.
Momochrome who?? Doesn't ring a bell. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @07:06AM (#4684944) apologies
Apology \A*pol"o*gy\, n.; pl. Apologies. [L. apologia, Gr. ?; ?
from + ?: cf. F. apologie. See Apologetic.] 1. Something said or written in
defense or justification of what appears to others wrong, or of what may be
liable to disapprobation; justification; as, Tertullian's Apology for
Christianity.
It is not my intention to make an apology for my poem; some
will think it needs no excuse, and others will receive none. --Dryden.
2.
An acknowledgment intended as an atonement for some improper or injurious remark
or act; an admission to another of a wrong or discourtesy done him, accompanied
by an expression of regret.
3. Anything provided as a substitute; a
makeshift.
He goes to work devising apologies for window curtains.
--Dickens.
Syn: Excuse.
Usage: An apology, in the original sense
of the word, was a pleading off from some charge or imputation, by explaining
and defending one's principles or conduct. It therefore amounted to a
vindication. One who offers an apology, admits himself to have been, at least
apparently, in the wrong, but brings forward some palliating circumstance, or
tenders a frank acknowledgment, by way of reparation. We make an apology for
some breach of propriety or decorum (like rude expressions, unbecoming conduct,
etc.), or some deficiency in what might be reasonably expected. We offer an
excuse when we have been guilty of some breach or neglect of duty; and we do it
by way of extenuating our fault, and with a view to be forgiven. When an excuse
has been accepted, an apology may still, in some cases, be necessary or
appropriate. ``An excuse is not grounded on the claim of innocence, but is
rather an appeal for favor resting on some collateral circumstance. An apology
mostly respects the conduct of individuals toward each other as equals; it is a
voluntary act produced by feelings of decorum, or a desire for the good opinion
of others.'' --Crabb.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] You idiot. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:56AM (#4684925) Momochrome is nothing. Trollaxor is a 5000% better troller than Momochrome is, 300% more intelligent, 1000% more creative, at least 35% more handsome, and he has sex nearly three times as often. Momochrome isn't the king of Trolltalk and never was; the king of Trolltalk has always been Mr. Trollaxor. Other trolls have come and other trolls have gone, but Trollaxor has been running this show this entire time. Idiots. Don't you know who your leader is? You will soon. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:38AM (#4684788) TROLLTALK PERSONAL ADVERTISEMENTS
YOUR LOVE CONNECTION FOR THE TROLLER SCENE
Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks seeks friendship, pen-pals, romance, and marriage. Very attractive [att.net]. Into BSDM / watersports / felching. Passions include Socialism, anal sex, and protesting (anything!). I am an excellent Slashdot troller. I've been a writer for reputable and unbiased news-journals such as Indymedia.org, Adequacy.org, and my new weblog, IniquityDaily.com! If you care about any of these things, or if you'd just like to listen to me tell you all about my life for hours on end, or even if you'd just like to get together for some buttfucking, I'd like to hear from you! Male or female, young or old... I can't afford to be picky! (No further inquiries from Scott Lockwood will be accepted, though.)
Write to:
Esther Sassaman
2776 Hampshire Blvd #B1
Cleveland Heights, OH 44106.
Or e-mail me [mailto]. Or call me at (216) 321-3546. I don't get many phone calls, and the last person who called me hung up on me and it made me sad. Hope to hear from you soon!
Love,
Perdida
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:19AM (#4685368) What are you trying to accomplish by that? Do you want to force her to leave k5 and change her nick? [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Lame (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @11:34AM (#4685665) That would be nice, actually. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:42AM (#4684900) would I ever be this bitter about perdida? only if I couldn't posess her.
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:33AM (#4684777) thank you trooltalk for making me feel "normal" again. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:30AM (#4684771) Years ago, I won the battle of the sids, and relegated all the old-guard troll cabal to the obscurity of a clumsy mailing list. I graciously left ?sid=trolltalk to the neophytes and amateurs, as a sort of stomping ground wherein they might practice the craft. Trolltalk survives today as ?sid=20721, and the tradition had continued quite nicely until recently.
Now it appears that inter-factional rivalry is attempting to rear its ugly head. The phoneboy cabal, after such ruthless and base treatment of vlad, in a capacity quite extending beyond that which is decent, breaking the code of troll ethics, our own version of 'honor among thieves', and in fact, quite actually breaking several state and federal anti-trolling laws, have debased this once lovely stomping ground and brought their diseased and perverted notions into the fore. And now they promise to utterly dominate the underworld of our own slashdot! This cannot be allowed to happen.
With Klerck acting as regent during the Geekizoid era (and furthering the art of the troll with skill and finesse, I might add), the slashdot underground moved along nicely, with the occasional hiccough brought on by taco and his feeble anti-trolling efforts.
And so, as your rightful King, I do hereby proclaim an edict: Henceforth, anyone attached to the Phoneboy Cabal is to be considered corpus memento, and is to be treated as such with extreme prejudice.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @11:36AM (#4685674) Anyone who believes that "honor among trolls" shit is a fucking moron. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:35AM (#4684783) No! Go away! There is no MORMOCRORE in Trolltalk!!! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:05AM (#4684718) TROLLTALK PERSONAL ADVERTISEMENTS
YOUR LOVE CONNECTION FOR THE TROLLER SCENE
Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks seeks friendship, pen-pals, romance, and marriage. Very attractive [att.net]. Into BSDM / watersports / felching. Passions include Socialism, anal sex, and protesting (anything!). I am an excellent Slashdot troller. I've been a writer for reputable and unbiased news-journals such as Indymedia.org, Adequacy.org, and my new weblog, IniquityDaily.com! If you care about any of these things, or if you'd just like to listen to me tell you all about my life for hours on end, or even if you'd just like to get together for some buttfucking, I'd like to hear from you! Male or female, young or old... I can't afford to be picky! (No further inquiries from Scott Lockwood will be accepted, though.)
Write to:
Esther Sassaman
2776 Hampshire Blvd #B1
Cleveland Heights, OH 44106.
Or e-mail me [mailto]. Or call me at (216) 321-3546. I don't get many phone calls, and the last person who called me hung up on me and it made me sad. Hope to hear from you soon!
Love,
Perdida [ Reply to This | Parent ] A note for the anti vlad triad (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:27AM (#4684604) Please stop all this fucking klerck crapflooding. I hate it. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:A note for the anti vlad triad (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:31AM (#4684625) Idiot. Klerck is the one doing the crapflooding. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:08AM (#4684557) 17 replies. Made it up to five and then back down to one.
Click here for super enjoyment [slashdot.org]. [ Reply to This | Parent ] What do you think you're doing??? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:34AM (#4684641) You can't talk about trolling in here; this is Trolltalk!! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:26AM (#4684598) this would have been excellent as a troll were it not for the little details. like the inherent truth to what you are saying. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:29AM (#4684617) Trolling with truth. Tyr it sometime. Most of the replies were inflamed unix hippies. Setting their fucking hippy beards on fire. Trying to prove that Unix is the most stable OS evar. Evar. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Keeping the trolling going (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:42AM (#4684664) that is the simplest form of the troll, almost sub-par. that you got so many bites is merely endemic of 1) the ease of the sendup and B) the lack of real trolling on slashdot these days. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Adequacy reborn? What the fuck? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:05AM (#4684548) What the bloody hell is this?? [iniquitydaily.com] It looks vary lame, whatever it is.
Post 800, by the way. Claimed by teh New True Troll High Council. [ Reply to This | Parent ] pathetic (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:17AM (#4684451) all this drama in trolltalk, and not a god damned troll in the regular story threads. wtf? [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:pathetic (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:32AM (#4684486)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:59AM (#4684191) From: #adequacy, 2002.10.1
[perdida] hey guys! look at the 1337 troll i did: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/10/1/21188/771
[perdida] [perdida] jumps up and down, her mammaries flapping thunderously.
[seventypercent] awesome, perdida! that took some cunning!
[perdida] yayyy! LOOK IT GOT *EIGHT* REPLIES!!!
[shoeboy] WOW perdida, that is SO COOL! i really love you perdida! will you please take my virginity?!
[perdida] shoeboy: i am a lesbian and i thought you were having sex with chloedancer.
[shoeboy] that's just the name i gave to my right han... oh, uh... yeah... you are REALLY COOL perdida!
[seventypercent] you guys tell me what you think of this troll: see, i pretend to be a RIGHT WING MANIAC! and i spout all sorts of RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA about stuff that has NO POLITICAL ANGLE!! what do you think??
[shoeboy] WOW! that's why you guys are the masters. i love you guys. i am SO GLAD you let me hang around. ummm, seventypercent, can you move over just a hair so i can get my nose a little deeper into your asshole?
[vladinator] GUYS!!! SOMEBODY HAS CREATED A TOOR ACCOUNT ON MY BSD BOX!! LOLFOFLROLFGLFL! I HAVE BEEN HACKED!! REPEAT: I HAVE BEEN HACKED!!!! PLEASE ADVICE!!!! LOL!!! ROFL!!!!! LOFLGL!!!!
[shoeboy] vlad, you are SO COOL. what time will you be on the twin poles support group channel?
[vladinator] OH, HEY, SHOE. I DON'T KNOW. I'VE GOT TO NAIL THIS HACKER. HE WILL BE SORRY HE HACKED INTO MY SYSTEM! LOLFLFLFOFLELROSLFLFLDLALLLLL!
[shoeboy] WOW. MAN, VLAD YOU ARE SO FUCKING COOL! WHAT MARTIAL ARTS ARE YOU GOING TO USE?
[vladinator] SHOE: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN STEEL MAGNOLIAS? THAT'S THE STYLE OF MARTIAL ARTS I PRACTICE.
[shoeboy] [shoeboy] drools.
[shoeboy] wow vlad. you are SO COOL. i can just imagine your rippling muscles and bulging, hairy chest! YOU are the kind of man i want to be when i grow up!
[vladinator] ROFLLFOGOGLFOWSLDFLFLFLFLOLOLOL!!!!!
[perdida] come on guys, you aren't paying attention to me! did i tell you about my new troll on kuro5hin?
[shoeboy] oh yeah, perdida. that was SO COOL.
[seventypercent] oh yeah, that reminds me! you guys tell me what you think of this troll: see, i pretend to be a RIGHT WING MANIAC! and i spout all sorts of RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA about stuff that has NO POLITICAL ANGLE!! what do you think??
[shoeboy] [shoeboy] sneezes.
[seventypercent] whoaaaa! better warn before you do that, shoe!
[shoeboy] i'm SO SORRY seventy. PLEASE DON'T KICK ME OUT OF YOUR ELITE CLIQUE! i promise to suck you off again tonight!
[seventypercent] [seventypercent] chuckles...
[seventypercent] that's my little bitch.
[shoeboy] hey guys, where's bc? HE IS SO FUCKING COOL!
[vladinator] OH, I THINK HE GOT THROWN IN JAIL FOR RUNNING OVER AN OLD LADY WHILE HE WAS DRUNK! LOFOFOFOFLFLFOFLFOFLFOFLFOFLFOFL!!!!
[vladinator] HEY GUYS!!!! WHAT DOES "RM -RF
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:VLADEQUACY: LAMER THAN EVAR (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:48AM (#4684357) [11:57] edgemaster# wc -l patch
[11:57] 435 patch
[11:57] Nugget: ha ha, I have yet another freebsd patch
[12:04] yay for drdink
[12:04] * Octal has quit IRC (Client exited)
[12:05] www.zombie.org/watchdog.diff
[12:06] * Octal (~brian@128.101.0.0) has joined #slashdot
[12:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o Octal
[12:06] hmm
[12:07] it is missing a file
[12:07] drdink: cat
[12:07]
[12:07] You're a fucking comedian.
[12:08] where comedian means lame
[12:08] haha, now youre the comedians
[12:08] there
[12:08] missing file is there now
[12:09] * sporty (~sporty@cloaked.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #slashdot
[12:09] drdink: plain magic?
[12:09] oops
[12:09] * drdink takes out the part that says 'smbd', where he borrowed his rcng script from
[12:15] hmm
[12:16] why did kirk bother to ask for a visual if the monitor is facing the oppocite direction as him?
[ Reply to This | Parent ] IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @01:16AM (#4684037)
(User #626693 Info) It turns out that mr. Mratislav Nikolavic did not make the surprising win in the Presidential elections he thought he did. I recently appealed my case to the Troll Supreme Court, and they ordered a recount from the Florida trolls. Y'see, down in Florida they use a system where there are a series of punch holes in the ballot, and the voter sticks his willy through the hole he wants to vote for in order to punch out the "chad". Unfortunately, it appears some [slashdot.org] troll [slashdot.org]'s penises are too small to punch the chads out all the way, which confangled the fancy votin' machines and made it think people was a-votin' for that Serbian gentleman when they meant to vote for me.
SO anyways, to make the long story short, I, George Beauregard Washington Donnely (call me "W" for short
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:37AM (#4684646) Scott Lockwood is a fucking pussy faggot longshoreman babysitter. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:25AM (#4684591) This method of voting automatically ensures that women are not allowed to vote -- excellent. Women's suffrage has ruined politics and turned it into a meaningless battle between competing hairdressers, and tailors. Bah. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:IMPORTANT ELECTION NEWS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:20AM (#4684052) apologies
Apology \A*pol"o*gy\, n.; pl. Apologies. [L. apologia, Gr. ?; ? from + ?: cf. F. apologie. See Apologetic.] 1. Something said or written in defense or justification of what appears to others wrong, or of what may be liable to disapprobation; justification; as, Tertullian's Apology for Christianity.
It is not my intention to make an apology for my poem; some will think it needs no excuse, and others will receive none. --Dryden.
2. An acknowledgment intended as an atonement for some improper or injurious remark or act; an admission to another of a wrong or discourtesy done him, accompanied by an expression of regret.
3. Anything provided as a substitute; a makeshift.
He goes to work devising apologies for window curtains. --Dickens.
Syn: Excuse.
Usage: An apology, in the original sense of the word, was a pleading off from some charge or imputation, by explaining and defending one's principles or conduct. It therefore amounted to a vindication. One who offers an apology, admits himself to have been, at least apparently, in the wrong, but brings forward some palliating circumstance, or tenders a frank acknowledgment, by way of reparation. We make an apology for some breach of propriety or decorum (like rude expressions, unbecoming conduct, etc.), or some deficiency in what might be reasonably expected. We offer an excuse when we have been guilty of some breach or neglect of duty; and we do it by way of extenuating our fault, and with a view to be forgiven. When an excuse has been accepted, an apology may still, in some cases, be necessary or appropriate. ``An excuse is not grounded on the claim of innocence, but is rather an appeal for favor resting on some collateral circumstance. An apology mostly respects the conduct of individuals toward each other as equals; it is a voluntary act produced by feelings of decorum, or a desire for the good opinion of others.'' --Crabb.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Post #800. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:15AM (#4683807) Ate-Hundirt. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Anyone ever notice? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:12AM (#4683801) Scott Lockwood is our perfect little Schadenfreude.
- just an observer [ Reply to This | Parent ] ALL WE ARE SAAAAAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHAAANCE! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:37PM (#4683602) In A.D. 2002 Faggotry was beginning. AV3: What happen ? Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant AV3: What ! Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard AV3: It's You !! Vlad: How are you fagmasters !! Vlad: All your females are belong to us Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids AV3: What you say !! Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your poleVlad: HA HA HA HA
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:ALL WE ARE SAAAAAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHAAANCE! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:08AM (#4683786) A.D. 2003: ???
A.D. 2004: Profit! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:ALL WE ARE SAAAAAYING IS GIVE PEACE A CHAAANCE! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:43PM (#4683646) Non-impressive. [ Reply to This | Parent ] ATTN: TROLLTALK. Want phone sex? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:34PM (#4683580) I'm a hot Jewish geek-grrl, a political leftist, and a troll. And I'm lonely. Call (216) 321-3546 and I'll tell you what I'm wearing. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:ATTN: TROLLTALK. Want phone sex? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:10AM (#4683792) Hello. You sound hot. Are you hot? Or not? [ Reply to This | Parent ] THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:25PM (#4683512) In A.D. 2002
Faggotry was beginning.
AV3: What happen ?
Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt
Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant
AV3: What !
Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard
AV3: It's You !!
Vlad: How are you fagmasters !!
Vlad: All your females are belong to us
Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids
AV3: What you say !!
Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your pole
Vlad: HA HA HA HA
AV3: Take off every 'cockring'
AV3: You know what you doing
AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'
AV3: For great justice
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:39AM (#4684655) AV4: ???
AV5: Profit! [ Reply to This | Parent ] TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:21PM (#4683479) WILLIAM SCOTT LOCKWOOD III ANATOMY OF AN ASSHOLE
And you thought this was just going to be another goats.cx [forkbomb.net] link. Close. During this bloody war with Mr. Lockwood, several interested lookers-on have commented, "Yeah, Vlad is a fat, disgusting piece of shit, but why do you hate him that much?? Do you berate your own feces before you flush it??" This is a question which must be answered. Here, I will present to you just a few reasons for despising William Scott Lockwood III. Read these with an open mind and an eye toward moral clarity and I am certain you will reach the same conclusion that I and others have: Lardinator Has To Go.
This is the face of a child-molestor. [forkbomb.net] It is no coincidence that Lockwood 3's children live all the way on the other side of the country. His wife at the time (just one in a continuous stream of buffalo), could not get her brood far enough away from the cold clammy probing fingers of Lardinator. And knowing what a low-life piece of white-trash her ex-husband is, she knew that Lardo would not spring for so much as a ride in a 67 Mercury Comet to "see" his hell-spawn. Child molestors are generally sexually abused in their own youth. Take a long look at the tortured echos of a deprived childhood. [forkbomb.net]
Crapflooder Extraordinaire [geekizoid.com] (note: I know these are some big words, Scottie. Don't worry your little head about it. Just rest assured you are being exposed for the worthless fuck you are). William Scott Lockwood III used his third-rate troll site Geekizoid [olsentwins.com] to encourage the crap-flooding and general assault of websites he deemed inappropriate. This included a tech site oriented toward females, an animal rights site, child abuse sites (see above paragraph for why Scotty found that one inappropriate), a site aimed at giving advice to troubled teens and various other sites where people generally minded their own business, blissfully unaware of the stinking mound of manure who had eyed them for destruction only to sate his own appetite for power. When the admin of one of those sites (yeah, it was mine) decided to give little Pecker-head a taste of his own shit, it was suddenly a bad thing! Why, he was going to involve the law! He was sending his server logs to EVERYONE in order to figure out who was spanking his little butt good (he never did).
Idiot Supreme. [geekizoid.com] Yep, you read that right, folks. Fatty can't even read his own server logs! And he wants YOU to buy a scoop "server" from him!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! We can see from this old post [rockynewsgroup.org] that Fatty dropped out of high-school. That would explain quite a bit.
Hypocrite Extreme. [zbh.com] Mr. Lardinator has a nasty habit of complaining to those who run message boards. He constantly accused Rob Malda of being a hypocrite (a word Mr. Lardinator can't even spell properly). He has also complained incessantly about K5's Rusty and others. Of course, you now know from the Crapflooding paragraph, that Mr. Lardinator is the biggest (in more ways than one) H Y P O C R I T E of them all.
Well, that's it for now. I can and will post more later, but I will let you digest this in pieces. And please, join the crusade. It is the only way.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:27AM (#4684085) Entry: egregious
Function: adjective
Definition: very bad
Synonyms: arrant, atrocious, capital, deplorable, extreme, flagrant, glaring, grievous, gross, heinous, infamous, insufferable, intolerable, monstrous, nefarious, notorious, outrageous, outright, preposterous, rank, scandalous, shocking, stark
Antonyms: minor, trivial, petty, little, slight, measly
Concept: immorality
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Entry: extreme
Function: adjective
Definition: unreasonable
Synonyms: absolute, desperate, dire, downright, drastic, egregious, exaggerated, exceptional, excessive, extraordinary, extravagant, fabulous, fanatical, flagrant, gross, harsh, immoderate, improper, imprudent, inordinate, intemperate, irrational, nonsensical, out-and-out, outrageous, overkill, preposterous, rabid, radical, remarkable, rigid, severe, sheer, stern, strict, thorough, unbending, uncommon, uncompromising, unconventional, unreasonable, unseemly, unusual, utter, zealous
Antonyms: conventional, normal, moderate, ordinary
Concept: abnormality
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Entry: flagrant
Function: adjective
Definition: flaunting
Synonyms: arrant, atrocious, awful, bare-faced, blatant, bold, brazen, capital, conspicuous, crying, disgraceful, dreadful, egregious, enormous, flagitous, flaming, flashy, glaring, grody, gross, hanging out, heinous, hot shot, immodest, infamous, noticeable, notorious, obvious, open, ostentatious, out-and-out, outrageous, rank, scandalous, shameful, shameless, shocking, striking, undisguised, wicked, without shame
Concept: immorality
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Entry: foul
Function: adjective
Definition: disgusting
Synonyms: abhorrent, abominable, barn, base, contaminated, despicable, detestable, dirty, disgraceful, dishonorable, egregious, fetid, filthy, hateful, heinous, horrid, icky, impure, infamous, iniquitous, loathsome, malodorous, mucky, nasty, nasty, nauseating, nefarious, noisome, notorious, offensive, offensive, pigpen, polluted, putrid, rank, raunchy, repellent, repulsive, revolting, rotten, scandalous, shameful, squalid, stable, stinking, stinking, sullied, tainted, unclean, vicious, vile, wicked, yecchy, yucky
Concept: dirtiness
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Entry: glaring
Function: adjective
Definition: obvious
Synonyms: audacious, blatant, capital, conspicuous, crying, egregious, evident, excessive, extreme, flagrant, gross, inordinate, manifest, noticeable, obtrusive, open, outrageous, outstanding, overt, patent, protrusive, rank, unconcealed, visible
Concept: extent (great)
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Entry: great
Function: adjective
Definition: excellent
Synonyms: able, absolute, aces, adept, admirable, adroit, bad, best, brutal, cold, complete, consummate, crack, downright, dynamite, egregious, exceptional, expert, fab, fantastic, fine, first-rate, good, heavy, hellacious, marvellous, masterly, mostest, number one, out-and-out, perfect, positive, proficient, skilled, skillful, super dupe, surpassing, terrific, total, tough, transcendant, tremendous, unmitigated, unqualified, utter, wonderful, zero cool
Concept: superiority
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2002 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
Entry: grievous
Function: adjective
Definition: painful
Sy
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[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:30PM (#4683547) Um, that old post says he quit school, got his GED and went to college... How is that a bad thing? [ Reply to This | Parent ] THE TRUTH REVEALED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:18PM (#4683466) In A.D. 2002
Faggotry was beginning.
AV3: What happen ?
Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt
Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant
AV3: What !
Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard
AV3: It's You !!
Vlad: How are you fagmasters !!
Vlad: All your females are belong to us
Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids
AV3: What you say !!
Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your pole
Vlad: HA HA HA HA
AV3: Take off every 'cockring'
AV3: You know what you doing
AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'
AV3: For great justice
[ Reply to This | Parent ] Okay, Mr. Lockwood. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:32PM (#4683563) You really do have your heart set on fucking things up for yourself, don't you? We have the writing analysis scripts that can tell us exactly who posted any message. This is going to be your vary last warning. You get to choose the path that your life takes from here on out. It's up to you now. The ball's in your court. Post one more message, and the entire deal is off. Go ahead. We were almost certain that you'd never be able to stick to any agreement, because you are not a man of honor, but we wanted to give you a chance, so that when you fucked things up for yourself it wouldn't be anybody's fault but your own.
Go ahead. I'm waiting. Tell Mr. Corrigan we said hello, also. Unmask gave a 96% probability of him being a match on a comment that was posted here earlier. Nice try, though. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Okay, AV3, OSM, Craig and Trollaxor. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:43PM (#4683650) Let's call a spade a spade. You're not keeping up with your end of the bargan. The police will be called at the next phone call. Using a cloned cell will only make them look for you harder. You want to play the fucking game? Let's play. YOU broke the agreement not Scott. He's sitting right here next to me, with his fists clenched, wanting very badly to respond to this in person but he won't - because HE DID keep his word. You did not. How so?
Specifically:
The individuals who spoke to Mr. Lockwood on the telephone on Nov 4 2002 at approximately 2355, shall, of their own free will:
3. Notify other affiliated parties who have grudges against Mr. Lockwood and compel them to comply with this agreement as well.
End of the fucking message.
-- Dave [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Okay, AV3, OSM, Craig and Trollaxor. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:07AM (#4683782) 4. ???
5. Profit! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Bullshit. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:06AM (#4683777) Yawn. Not buying it, "Dave". I can't tell you how we know, but we know. We have independent confirmation on a lot of your recent goings-on. We can't compromise our sources, but we do have them. And we did notify all affiliated parties, and they were in agreement. Sorry if a few random posts by a few random nobodies with no connection to us caused you to make the decision to abandon the entire agreement and make things considerably worse for yourself.
I can guarantee you that you won't see another message about yourself if you can restrain yourself from loading Trolltalk. You're loading Trolltalk of your own free will. There was damn near no mention of you here for a week and a half until you decided to start posting again and ruin everything for yourself. You're talking really big when you don't even know who we are.
I said everything I had to say in my last comment in your Pinkerton Floyd sid, which you obviously didn't think it would be worth your time to read. Go read it. I'm not going to dignify any more of your messages with a response.
There's still time to compromise on this. Here are some new terms, take them or leave them, no negotation:
You stay off of Slashdot. That means Scott, "Dave", etc, or anyone in the entire damn household. We will run writing analysis scripts to check. Don't even read it. Don't even load the front page. Don't even visit Trolltalk. Don't even resolve the IP address. Stay off of Slashdot. And we'll never mention you again. We'll forget you exist. We can't control the actions of anyone else, but I imagine most everyone else will forget about you also if you stop intruding where you aren't wanted.
Just go away. Things were peaceful for everybody here for a week and a half until you started posting on Trolltalk again. You fucked it up. If you want it un-fucked, go away.
Do you think I'm joking? Do I sound like I'm joking? You've consistently lied, cheated, and bullshitted your way through life, Scott. Is it even in your capacity to be honest? I doubt it.
'nuff said. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:Bullshit. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:29AM (#4685397) You're the ones who need to do a reality check here. You're not complying with the agreement. The Agreement states that you would control all posting. The "thing" that started all of this was the announcement of the deal here in trolltalk.
It's up to YOU to keep the deal. The deal says NOTHING about anyone in the household reading trolltalk. There will be NO new deal without voice contact from a REGULAR phone during normal hours. HOLD UP YOUR END, because we already ARE holding up ours.
I don't know, and don't care WHAT someone else has told you, we've shot straight with you from the word go.
You have the nerve to commit a felony harrassing my family (yes, Scott and I are related) and then question his honnesty? You must have balls the size of grapefruit.
We warned that if the calls resume, the OTHER promise you were given (that you would be hunted down by the law) will become a reality. The taps are in place. Fuck with us one more time, and there won't be a peaceful solution.
-- Dave [ Reply to This | Parent ] TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:11PM (#4683437)
It is time to set the record straight regarding the situation with respect to Vladinator/JCB/Reza/Lonesome Cowboy Burt/Whatever other aliases he may be using. The situation has been confused due to the recent world-wide influx of Vlad-haters, helper-cells, interested third parties and the occasional Vlad sympathizer [kuro5hin.org].
Let us start with a basic tenet of the Association of Anti-Vlad Avengers: There is no difference between William Scott Lockwood III and those who aid him, give him comfort, and/or use him as a substandard, "Always Save" hosting solution. Though we may have no direct quarrel with you, Mr. "Trollaxor", you appear to be friendly with Mr. Lockwood and - by your own admission - are using him as a substandard "Always Save" hosting solution. Consider the fact that if you were using a respectable host for your web site, you would not be having the difficulties you are having now. Also, with this attempt at ferreting out information for Mr. Lockwood, you are aiding and abetting our sworn enemy and have aligned yourself in direct oposition to a powerful internet force (that is, the AAA and its splinter groups).
This brings us to a primary characteristic of the AAA which has been detailed elsewhere, but which I will repeat here in interest of completeness: no single cell, as an entity, is aware of the members of any other cell. The structure of our association works as follows. Each cell is composed of no more and no less than three members who all reside in a roughly similar geographic area. One of the three members is designated as a messenger. This messenger is the only member in contact with a messenger from exactly two other cells. In this way, the members of each cell remain anonymous to the members of any other cell. If a messenger has been compromised, the corresponding cell is responsible for "cleansing" that messenger and replacing him or her with a new messenger. Such a cell will remain on probation - meaning they will only be allowed contact with a single other cell - until such time as the new messenger has been operating for no less than six months.
Our activities are clandestine and even if another cell wanted to share the information you request, it would not be able to because it would not be privy to said information.
As you can see the AAA, though very loosely connected, operates in a highly efficient manner and is deadly serious about the stated goals of the organization: namely, the complete, unconditional eradication of Vladinator, in any and all forms, from the internet.
We have been following the current situation with Vladinator's hosting service quite closely and we estimate the damages to be severe at this point. However, we cannot agree to end our champaign any sooner than already decided upon. We may have shown mercy in this, our second major attack, if Mr. Lockwood had shown the proper degree of humility at our hands. Instead, Mr. Lockwood responded with his usual barrage of lies [kuro5hin.org] and vitriol [kuro5hin.org]. For this reason, and the fact that we are otherwise bored, we have extended the length of this attack. We realize that Mr. Lockwood's hosting company will try various tricks to deflect our attack, things such as firewalls and IP banning. Eventually, they will succeed in eliminating the current attack at which point we will rest for a period of not less than seven days prior to initiating another attack.
We predict that the end of this second wave will result in another round of cockiness from Mr. Lockwood, given the highly reactionary character that he is. The next attack, which will be the "third wave", will be far more subtle than the current attack and will undoubtedly shake Mr. Lockwood's faith in his current alliances and dealings. This cycle of attack/end attack/Lockwood gets
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[ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:TEH VLADEQUACY MUST BE PURGED (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:25AM (#4684076) egregious
\E*gre"gious\ (?; 277), a. [L. egregius; lit., separated or chosen from the herd, i. e., distinguished, excellent; e out + grex, gregis, herd. See Gregarious.] Surpassing; extraordinary; distinguished (in a bad sense); -- formerly used with words importing a good quality, but now joined with words having a bad sense; as, an egregious rascal; an egregious ass; an egregious mistake.
The egregious impudence of this fellow. --Bp. Hall.
His [Wyclif's] egregious labors are not to be neglected. --Milton.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
egregious
adj : conspicuously and outrageously bad or reprehensible; "a crying shame"; "an egregious lie"; "flagrant violation of human rights"; "a glaring error"; "gross ineptitude"; "gross injustice"; "rank treachery" [syn: crying(a), flagrant, glaring, gross, rank]
[ Reply to This | Parent ] We are most Royally Displeased! (Score:1)
by MOMOCROME on Friday November 15, @10:55PM (#4683368)
(User #207697 Info) Years ago, I won the battle of the sids, and relegated all the old-guard troll cabal to the obscurity of a clumsy mailing list. I graciously left ?sid=trolltalk to the neopphytes and amateurs, as a sort of stomping ground wherein they might practice the craft. Trolltalk survives today as ?sid=20721, and the tradition had continued quite nicely until recently.
With Klerck acting as regent during the Geekizoid era (and furthering the art of the troll with skill and finesse, I might add), the slashdot underground moved along nicely, with the occasional hiccough brought on by taco and his feeble anti-trolling efforts.
Now it appears that inter-factional rivalry is attempting to rear its ugly head. The phoneboy cabal, after such ruthless and base treatment of vlad, in a capacity quite extending beyond that which is decent, breaking the code of troll ethics, our own version of 'honor among thieves', and in fact, quite actually breaking several state and federal anti-trolling laws, have debased this once lovely stomping ground and brought their diseased and perverted notions into the fore. And now they promise to utterly dominate the underworld of our own slashdot! This cannot be allowed to happen.
And so, as your rightful King, I do hereby proclaim an edict: Henceforth, anyone attached to the Phoneboy Cabal is to be considered corpus memento, and is to be treated as such with extreme prejudice. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Troll ethics? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:40AM (#4684792) Any troller with "ethics" is no troller at all. Ethics keep a person weak and stupid. Being a troller is about being strong and powerful. You can't reach your full potential until you abandon any concept of ethics, decency, and morality. That's why we are strong, and you are weak and stupid. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Who the fuck are you? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:57AM (#4683977) You are not relevant. Go away. [ Reply to This | Parent ] IAWTP (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:27AM (#4684609) I Agree With This Post!
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:40AM (#4684892) big suprise! you agree with providing shit sucking rim jobs and his scrotal fungus, too. thanks for playing though. [ Reply to This | Parent ] GOD DAMMIT MORMOCRORE (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @12:51AM (#4683956)
(User #626693 Info) I am George Beauregard Washington Donnely, President of Trolltalk, son of former President George Beauregard Donnely, and I say there is NO MORMOCRORE IN TROLLTALK. Get your ass outa here or else we'll invade your little backwater website [shits-r-us.com] and institute a regime change. The Axis of Evil will not survive in this place. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:GOD DAMMIT MORMOCRORE (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:08AM (#4684421) a pale imitation of the father does not a leader make, my dear little one. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:We are most Royally Displeased! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:47AM (#4683937) why don't you go peel out in your mustang and shut the fuck up. fat ass. [ Reply to This | Parent ] The battle for the future of trolling beings... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:14PM (#4683447) We have an exciting match for you today, ladies and gentlemen:
In the blue corner:
Has-been no-talent hacks, operating under the name Vladequacy. Those of Adequacy who didn't flee before the ship sank. Their allies, long-term Kings Of The Krapflooders and sworn enemies of Slashdot Trolling: William Scott "Pinkrectum Floyd" Lockwood III and MOMOCHROME. They've tried to destroy trolling on Slashdot for years... will they succeed?
In the red corner:
The Slashdot Trollers, the heirs of the k22320inchfan ideal, and the guardians of the future. The True Slashdot Trollers. Heirs of a great legacy that came into being nearly five years ago, and the people who have kept trolling alive through the long Dark Ages of Geekizoid and Adequacy. The best and the brightest former Adequists, who fled the ship before it sunk and now fight for justice against their former comrades who have given up on trolling by making a pact with evil itself. The best new trollers on the Slashdot scene, as well as wise old veterans who are finally taking sides in this, the final conflict.
My money is on the red corner. I'm betting that Vladequacy will be TKO'd in the third round. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:The battle for the future of trolling beings... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:22AM (#4684066) apologies
Apology \A*pol"o*gy\, n.; pl. Apologies. [L. apologia, Gr. ?; ? from + ?: cf. F. apologie. See Apologetic.] 1. Something said or written in defense or justification of what appears to others wrong, or of what may be liable to disapprobation; justification; as, Tertullian's Apology for Christianity.
It is not my intention to make an apology for my poem; some will think it needs no excuse, and others will receive none. --Dryden.
2. Anything provided as a substitute; a makeshift.
3. An acknowledgment intended as an atonement for some improper or injurious remark or act; an admission to another of a wrong or discourtesy done him, accompanied by an expression of regret.
He goes to work devising apologies for window curtains. --Dickens.
Syn: Excuse.
Usage: An apology, in the original sense of the word, was a pleading off from some charge or imputation, by explaining and defending one's principles or conduct. It therefore amounted to a vindication. One who offers an apology, admits himself to have been, at least apparently, in the wrong, but brings forward some palliating circumstance, or tenders a frank acknowledgment, by way of reparation. We make an apology for some breach of propriety or decorum (like rude expressions, unbecoming conduct, etc.), or some deficiency in what might be reasonably expected. We offer an excuse when we have been guilty of some breach or neglect of duty; and we do it by way of extenuating our fault, and with a view to be forgiven. When an excuse has been accepted, an apology may still, in some cases, be necessary or appropriate. ``An excuse is not grounded on the claim of innocence, but is rather an appeal for favor resting on some collateral circumstance. An apology mostly respects the conduct of individuals toward each other as equals; it is a voluntary act produced by feelings of decorum, or a desire for the good opinion of others.'' --Crabb.
[ Reply to This | Parent ] You are history, old man. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @10:58PM (#4683379) Your time is in the distant past. Nobody follows you anymore. You have no power. You have nothing. You know nothing. You ARE nothing. You aren't even a Troller. We are the Trollers. We're in charge here. Pull down your pants and bend over. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:You are history, old man. (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @12:54AM (#4683960)
(User #626693 Info) None of my citizens will call themselves "Trollers". We are Trolls, plain and simple. [ Reply to This | Parent ] Re:You are history, old man. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @11:06PM (#4683410) s/The/Teh/gi
J00 ar3 vary g4y pls die tnx!!! [ Reply to This | Parent ] Trolltalk post #777. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @10:36PM (#4683282) The number of God (who is us). [ Reply to This | Parent ] Final warning to Vladequacy. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 15, @10:28PM (#4683239) An amnesty is being extended to those with Adequacy affiliations, and others who may wish to save themselves from what is to come. You are being given one final chance to join teh winning team and avoid destruction. On January 1st, 2003, you can witness history in teh making and be forevar remembered as a part of teh greatest revolution in teh history of Trolling. Or you can be ground into dust by teh jackboot of obscurity, relegated to teh dustbins of trolling history as teh non-person has-beens you currently are.
Do you know where teh momentum lies? Do you know where teh power lies? Do you know who hold teh winning cards in his hand? It's not you. Years ago, maybe. Not anymore. You think that you are k22320inchfan. You aren't. Not anymore. Teh k22320inchfan essence was taken from you long ago. You nevar even noticed when its rightful heir walked off with it; you just slipped gradually into mediocrity and boredom. K22320inchfan is being held elsewhere, in secret, guarded by people who know how to use it. You don't have it anymore. We do. We are teh k22320inchfan, not you. We have teh power, not you. We will survive, not you.
This will be your only warning.
Join us or die. CAN you do any less?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
There is no such word as 'argumentation' :)
:
From Merriam-Webster dictionnary (http://www.m-w.com)
One entry found for argumentation.
Main Entry: argumentation
Pronunciation: "är-gy&-m&n-'tA-sh&n, -"men-
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : the act or process of forming reasons and of drawing conclusions and applying them to a case in discussion
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel
People want to see the "new" interesting apps. Windows has the active development, whatever new development tool, screen saver, game, chat application, etc. comes out will come out on WIndows first
The "dude, did you see the new X? X lets you stack 3000 virtual cheesburgers and then set fire to them all... it's the coolest" piques curiosity, and others want to download and see X too. No other platform has as many new Xs.
I'm personally intrigued by coca (Max OS 10), alsmot enough to buy a new overpriced computer, but then I surf the web and see all sorts of other new interesting things and I'm entertained/distracted long enough to forget about Mac or Linux or any other platform.
There's this dandy little program called Encore. It only runs on Win95 (not even Win98). It's closed source with proprietary file formats. And there are all these files my wife has created...
Perhaps I'll get it to run under VMWare... though it didn't run under version 1.0.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Thanks to DRM, It protects me from reverse engineering Trojans!
Linux, M$ Windows, MacO$, BSD and all the others - its all about choice!
Windows 3.11, was the first Windows that made an upgrade from DOS worthwhile, but when Internet blew in Mac left Windows standing in usability - until Windows 95 (still then some IMHO).
Today I surf with Windows 2KPro SP3 and fullblown Opera, my wife's Mac lacks plenty in the Internet experience by comparison - but she loves it for use with Office, yes M$, to which Windows pales. Linux is great for tweaking, testing, network, security and servers - the more you use it (really use it) the more it grows on you, but it is not my choice for daily tasks - yet!?! Its a matter of choice.
MacO$X (pre-Jaguar) had both speed and hardware problems, but the Jaguar release of today gets almost nothing but praise, but the $-policy Apple adopted with 10.2 has left me with 9.2.2 and YellowDog (YDL). Once again its a matter of choice, the reasons differ - but they are there.
Times change and so do OS's - who knows what a poll will say in 1 year?!
Its all about choice, lets just be ever grateful we have choice....
My 0,02
- Kenzai, Master of the Little Penguin. "Long Live BeOS...ehhh, where is everybody going!?"
I don't have use Win32 platforms or do virus work, but I use GNU/Linux and can't get a girlfriend, no
.... a fucking GNU/Linux hippy". He sounded so defeated. She
matter what I do. From what I can tell, not too many of you have girlfriends
either; I must make it clear right now that I do not want advice from you. I am
seeking the advice of those who have consentual, regular, heterosexual
intercourse with a well adjusted woman.
You may be wondering why I placed so many restrictions on the type of sexual
intercourse. Being a GNU/Linux user, I can get all the men I want, but my ass
hurts from years of anal sex. I am tired of pillow-biting. I have met women at
Linux User Groups (LUGs) but they didnt want sex the way I wanted it - they
brought their strap on and rode my chute like the men did. The date would end
with her taking me to a gay bar and selling my ass to a drunk and bearded
kernel hacker.
I am convinced, therefore, that I need to meet women that do not use GNU/Linux.
I have tried dating regular women, but find it hard to make conversation. I was
surprised that regular women do not give a shit about Free Software or the
Microsoft monopoly which leaves me with nothing to discuss. Some women tried to
talk about the weather, but I don't keep up with the weather from my mums'
basement.
I have had some success, I dated one girl several times. She picked me up from
home, mum liked her. I am sure dad would have too, but he left us soon after I
installed Slackware on the family computer. I can still hear him crying and see
him moping around the house, saying "I knew he was different; I could handle a
gay son, but this
wanted to go to the beach, but my skin is not adjusted to the sun and my skin
peels while at the beach. This was not a turn on for her and when she came back
to my mum's basement that night we were going to have sex but the raw skin was
too much for her.
Going out at night for a meal can be difficult too; all restaurants refuse to
serve smelly GNU/Linux hippies. The only place we can go for food is the
McDonald's drive through, but she doesnt like waiting in her car in the heat of
the day when I tend to smell the most. She doesn't like the stares she gets
from the drive through staff.
I could go on, but I won't. I now seek your advice.
--
Department of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, Halifax, N.S., Canada, B3H 3J5
I discovered the WWW (not the Internet), Linux and Netscape 3 around 1996. For my spare time the WWW is the ultimate killer app and as a lifelong tinkerer Linux and free software is the ultimate toy (that's "toy as in fun", not "toy as in children's plaything"). I don't care if it used to take me longer to do something in Linux than it would have in Windows - getting there was half the fun! For someone who enjoys getting under the hood and wants total flexibility (etc. etc.) Linux is irresistable. But for someone who just wants to get things done with minimum learning curve Windows (or a pre-configured Linux appliance) is a better choice.
Error:
as simple as that. i use windows mostly as a gaming platform.
yes i think so adding my post to the total =D
oh, yah, FP!
If I ever started a software company (quite likely), I wouldn't even consider running Windows (not even if that was the target OS for our products). The reason is quite obvious: cost. Windows costs a fortune to small companys.
As a home user one doesn't have that problem. If one doesn't get the OS with my computer, one can always get it "for free". That is one of the reasons Linux will become more popular when MS next OS comes - with more copy protection thingys.
"Er, hi, I'm a newbiew, and I was wondering if anybody knew the answer to my question"
is a bad way to start... but
"How do I extract a .tar.gz file?"
"tar xzvf foo.tar.gz"
is clearly what you're looking for.
How's this... Is it really necessary to chose one over the other? I mean, Linux and Windows can fairly easily be made to work together. Here's my thing. Windows' User interface is a bit more, oh, I guess it's what I'm used to. I've set up a dual-boot system, Win2000Pro/RedHat 8, and have been messing around with the new "BlueCurve" environment. I like it alright, but am having hardware issues in RedHat with sound cards. Tried a couple, and haven't gotten one to work yet. What I AM running Linux on, without question is my servers. I've got 2 RH 7.2 machines serving DNS, WEB and Mail, plus SMB. I've got my main server in my house, serving files from a pair of 80GB harddrives to my Win2K machine, my brother's Win98 machine, and my roommate's NT4 machine. Using SMB for file sahres and system backups is VERY convenient, and was even easy to set up. The other box is at my pop's place, backing up my main server for DNS, web and Mail, and serving files for 2 Win 98 machines there. When I was between jobs for a while, I HAD to get my email and wanted to give out my personal domain email addresses to prospective employers, rather than a darn Yahoo or Hotmail address, so my redundency paid off, as I NEVER miss an email. The only problems I have that cause my backup server to actually get any mail is problems with my ISP. For these applications, the stability of Linux is of high importance. Basically, I can summarise my feelings this way...If I can do it from a command line, I use one of my Linux machines. If I need GUI, I use Windows. Plus, I NEED my Jedi Knight 2!! George, release something for Linux and I might be convinced to switch
54 to go!
yet another post. on our way to 3000!
but i cant! I need the 3000th post!
Nero-burning ROM for Linux!
The reason I stick with Win2k is simple: it has what I need.
;)
I do programming in C and some assembler. I like to develop OpenGL and GameBoy Advance apps. I surf with Mozilla, and download news with BNR2. I watch DivX and DVD movies with TV-out. I even play a few games. That is what I want.
I did try Linux. Nice, very nice, but I need to learn a new system, strugge with lack of support for some of my hardware etc. To me, it`s just not worth it when I have a working system already. I hate M$ as much as the next guy, but it`s the path of least resistance. I never gave them a penny anyway
I do run a Debian box as a server. I also run an Amiga for email and a few other things. Linux needs, to get me at least, not just a killer app but to be able to do everything Win2k does just as easily.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
42 to go!
Windows XP/2k are rock solid operating systems. You cannot deny that. The flexibility coupled with stability make them the best possible desktop AND workstation solutions on the market today. There are countless wonderful applications that are required for employment in the IT job field today that run exclusively on Windows.
The bottom line is, Linux just cannot compare to Windows. Windows > Linux
33 to go!
Cheers
30 to go!
Soon by there by will by be by 3000 by comments by.
But if the CDT gets anywhere near their Java Development Environment, I'll be in heaven :-).
Installed the Bubblemon yet?
I think /. has a goldmine here. Anytime the editors want a mad rush of attention to a topic, post OS vs. OS material (I know, duh). Anyone know what the record number of comments posted to a single item are?
Thanks to schnell, the user who started all this.
- DDT
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
3333 000 000 000 t h
3 0 0 0 0 0 0 t h
333 0 0 0 0 0 0 ttt hhh
3 0 0 0 0 0 0 t h h
3333 000 000 000 ttt h h
ppp ooo sss t
p p o o s t
ppp o o ss tttt
p o o s t
p ooo ss ttt
3333 000 000 000 t h
3 0 0 0 0 0 0 t h
_333 0 0 0 0 0 0 ttt hhh
3 0 0 0 0 0 0 t h h
3333 000 000 000 ttt h h
_ppp ooo sss t
p p o o s t
ppp o o ss tttt
p o o s t
p ooo ss ttt
Wipo troll would of been proud of us trolls!
Come on slow coaches, help me out alredy!
Almost there...
Jesus. Did y'all save this topic to test out the new server farm?
I started running Windows because I had to for the camera drivers. I was running Amigas only, but no software was available for it for the Amiga. Shapeshifter (Mac emulator for the Amiga) was too unstable when shifting back and forth, otherwise the camera driver was faster in Shapeshifter than on a real Mac or in a then-current Windows box.
Later I kept using Windows in order to run Adobe Pagemaker, as I could not provide the proper file formats to printshops from the Amiga.
I continue to use my Amiga (now under WinUAE ironically) for ImageFX. The Windows computer gets used for CorelDraw suite, Pagemaker, and MS Office (still at 97).
I just bought Lindows so I can move away from Windows as much as possible. I suspect I'll still have to use at least one Windows box for the printer drivers.
FUCKING SHIT!
WHAT THE FARK!
GET READY TO FUCK KATY ALLEN!
Guess what! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:51PM (#4687567)
(815) 727-0670
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Attention denizens of 20721: (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:40PM (#4687209)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Trolltalk post #843 (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:17PM (#4686810)
Attention denizens of 20721:
The "owner" of "the new trolltalk [ezboard.com]" is a communist. Please do not post to that site. I went by to check it out, only to find that it had no more than two members, and that the most recent post had been deleted. If you fear your loss of freedom, please do not go to that site.
Thank you,
[ezboard.com]
PFTROTT
(People for the Return of TrollTalk)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Trolltalk post #843 (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @03:23PM (#4686841)
Correction: The post was a crapflood. But still, watch the commies.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
in case trolltalk gets crapflooded. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:55PM (#4686683)
Plea for forgiveness... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:46PM (#4686623)
I have a problem.
I used to be a regular at geekizoid. I make no excuses -- at the time it was a fun place. People posted random thoughts... nonsense articles... flamed each other with wanton abandon. It wasn't full of stuck up dickless wonders like certain other sites. Amazing as it may sound now, this haven of juvenile fun was hosted by Vladinator, aka Scott Lockwood, aka Fat Fucking Loser.
Things changed, of course, because nothing involving a brain-dead obesity like Lockwood can remain fun for long. Sure enough, the drooling fat fool tried to make geekizoid into a more "serious" site, and offer commercial hosting to other piss-poor attempts at slash/scoop sites -- amusing to anyone familiar with the long history of hilarious incompetence shown by the band of half-wits administering his systems. It is at this point that anyone bar a few determined Lockwood mockers and his pet cock-suckers left *.geekizoid for good.
This is my problem. I was once a geekizoidian. I now hate and despise Lardinator and all those associating with him. How do I remove this taint from my soul and rejoin the troll brotherhood? Am I doomed to wander, anonymously, the wastelands of 20721, forever excluded from decent troll society?
Please help. [ezboard.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
!!Troll Gespräch Auswahlsterndatum JETZT (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:19PM (#4686455)
Collection Stardate di Trolltalk TODAY (Score:-1, Troll) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @12:02PM (# 4685796) That is pathetic (Score:0) from gnillort (myslashdotemailaccount@yahoo.com) the 16 saturday November, @10:5ÂM (# 4685513) (customer #617577 Info | last newspaper: Wednesdays October 23, @07:53PM) rather than it eliminates the infuence of Vlad that crapflooding and the cabal/AVT/CUNT/CLIT/Klerck that crapflooding, yo [ the fatasses of slashdot.org]u are based here. I have an alternative perfectly good [ ezboard.com ] all the putting to point. Why not diagli a test? [ answer to this | parent ] YOOOOU Is TEH GAY! (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @10:4ÀM (# 4685454) in A.D. Faggotry 2002 was beginning. AV3: Which thing happens? Boy 1 Of The Telephone: Someone them pump on boy 2 of the extremity telephone: We do not obtain lubricating AV3: That what! Boy 2 Of The Telephone: Hard main turn AV3 of the tap: He is You!! Vlad: As you are fagmasters!! Vlad: All your females are belong to we Vlad: You are on the sense to the dead women from AIDS AV3: That what you say!! Vlad: You do not have probability to survive smoke your Vlad pole: IT HAS HAS HAS HAS.... AV3: It removes every AV3 ' cockring ': You know that what you that fairies AV3: It moves ' jizcatcher ' the AV3: For justice great [ answer this | parent ] to 1 January 2003: daily count down. (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @07:01AM (# 4684935) the count down: 45 days [ answer to the srings of this trolltalk | of the parent ] to life! (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @06:49AM (# 4684907) who on earth could carry therefore unexpected of tide-fluctuates of the vitalità of new to this justification cruddy for a sid secret? why, momochrome naturally! only its brightness could possibly king-corroborate therefore condition sad of the degeneration and to newly breathe the new life within this justification weak person for a troll collective. All hail the momochrome! [ answer to srings of this | the parent ] Re:trolltalk to life! (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @06:59AM (# 4684931) moreover, "of tide-fluctuates of the vitalità" had been continuous for a enough sure time before that the sig. Momochrome has been sormontato with the jealousy that popolano was speaking about someone except he and decided therefore to throw its hat in the ring. It is nothing. Washed - in on-state. To the
Read the rest of this comment... by
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Plea for forgiveness... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:46PM (#4686623)
I have a problem.
I used to be a regular at geekizoid. I make no excuses -- at the time it was a fun place. People posted random thoughts... nonsense articles... flamed each other with wanton abandon. It wasn't full of stuck up dickless wonders like certain other sites. Amazing as it may sound now, this haven of juvenile fun was hosted by Vladinator, aka Scott Lockwood, aka Fat Fucking Loser.
Things changed, of course, because nothing involving a brain-dead obesity like Lockwood can remain fun for long. Sure enough, the drooling fat fool tried to make geekizoid into a more "serious" site, and offer commercial hosting to other piss-poor attempts at slash/scoop sites -- amusing to anyone familiar with the long history of hilarious incompetence shown by the band of half-wits administering his systems. It is at this point that anyone bar a few determined Lockwood mockers and his pet cock-suckers left *.geekizoid for good.
This is my problem. I was once a geekizoidian. I now hate and despise Lardinator and all those associating with him. How do I remove this taint from my soul and rejoin the troll brotherhood? Am I doomed to wander, anonymously, the wastelands of 20721, forever excluded from decent troll society?
Please help.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Plea for forgiveness... (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @04:03PM (#4687050)
Kill yourself. It's the only solution. Now. Be sure to tell Vlad on the way out who you were.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
!!Troll Gespräch Auswahlsterndatum JETZT (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:19PM (#4686455)
Collection Stardate di Trolltalk TODAY (Score:-1, Troll) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @12:02PM (# 4685796) That is pathetic (Score:0) from gnillort (myslashdotemailaccount@yahoo.com) the 16 saturday November, @10:5ÂM (# 4685513) (customer #617577 Info | last newspaper: Wednesdays October 23, @07:53PM) rather than it eliminates the infuence of Vlad that crapflooding and the cabal/AVT/CUNT/CLIT/Klerck that crapflooding, yo [ the fatasses of slashdot.org]u are based here. I have an alternative perfectly good [ ezboard.com ] all the putting to point. Why not diagli a test? [ answer to this | parent ] YOOOOU Is TEH GAY! (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @10:4ÀM (# 4685454) in A.D. Faggotry 2002 was beginning. AV3: Which thing happens? Boy 1 Of The Telephone: Someone them pump on boy 2 of the extremity telephone: We do not obtain lubricating AV3: That what! Boy 2 Of The Telephone: Hard main turn AV3 of the tap: He is You!! Vlad: As you are fagmasters!! Vlad: All your females are belong to we Vlad: You are on the sense to the dead women from AIDS AV3: That what you say!! Vlad: You do not have probability to survive smoke your Vlad pole: IT HAS HAS HAS HAS.... AV3: It removes every AV3 ' cockring ': You know that what you that fairies AV3: It moves ' jizcatcher ' the AV3: For justice great [ answer this | parent ] to 1 January 2003: daily count down. (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @07:01AM (# 4684935) the count down: 45 days [ answer to the srings of this trolltalk | of the parent ] to life! (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @06:49AM (# 4684907) who on earth could carry therefore unexpected of tide-fluctuates of the vitalità of new to this justification cruddy for a sid secret? why, momochrome naturally! only its brightness could possibly king-corroborate therefore condition sad of the degeneration and to newly breathe the new life within this justification weak person for a troll collective. All hail the momochrome! [ answer to srings of this | the parent ] Re:trolltalk to life! (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday November, @06:59AM (# 4684931) moreover, "of tide-fluctuates of the vitalità" had been continuous for a enough sure time before that the sig. Momochrome has been sormontato with the jealousy that popolano was speaking about someone except he and decided therefore to throw its hat in the ring. It is nothing. Washed - in on-state. To the day today, who even remembers itself of who Momochrome was? The sure one not sweeping in order to remember itself of and has been in the hardcore of troll-scene of Slashdor from when before the scene has existed. Momochrome was a famous one to piè of page of the a-line to page 4,275 of the history of trolling and the greater part of people has not been taken care to read that page, and many less notes to piè of page. Momochrome who? Not squilla one flange [ answer to srings of this | the parent ] Re:trolltalk to life! (Score:0) from Anonymous Coward the 16 saturday the November, @07:0ÃM excuses (# 4684944) Excuses \A*pol"o*gy \, n.; pl. Excuses. [ apology of the L., gr.; from +: cfr. apologies of the F.. See Apologetic. ] 1. Something said or written in the defense or the justification of that what appears badly to others, or of that what can be responsible to the disapprobation; justification; axis, excuses of the Tertullian for christianity. It is not my intention to excuse for mine poem; some will think it do not have need of justification and others will not receive any. -- Dryden. 2. An acknowledgment planned like atonement for one sure observation or improper or injurious action; an admission to an other of a wrong one or a discourtesy made he, accompanied from an expression of the sorrow. 3. Qualche.cosa supplied like substitute; a espediente. It goes to work inventing the excuses for stretches them of the window. -- Dickens. Syn [slashdot.org]
Read the rest of this comment... by
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Warning to Crapflooders (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @02:33PM (#4686546)
(User #626693 Info)
Hi everybody (Dubya here),
i am logging the IP addresses of everybody who posts to this here trolltalk forum. if you are a crapflooder i WILL turn you in to the authorities.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You only popped up yesterday (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @02:39PM (#4686594)
You fuck the dick mister.
If you really want to avoid crapflooding, go join chainrust.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
A note to the Vladequacy/AVT CRAPFLOODERS (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @01:49PM (#4686311)
Fucking stop it already.
plz die k thx
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
This is pathetic (Score:0)
by gnillort (myslashdotemailaccount@yahoo.com) on Saturday November 16, @10:54AM (#4685513)
(User #617577 Info | Last Journal: Wednesday October 23, @07:53PM)
Rather than get rid of the influence of Vlad crapflooding and the cabal/AVT/CUNT/CLIT/Klerck crapflooding, you fatasses sit here. I have a perfectly good alternative [ezboard.com] all set up. Why not give it a try?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
GOD DAMMIT CHAINRUST (Score:1)
by gbwd on Saturday November 16, @02:25PM (#4686490)
(User #626693 Info)
Hi everybody (Dubya here),
dear Mr. Chainrust, please stop trying to attract attention to yourself. it is painfully obvious you are not welcome under any name you choose for yourself. instead of wasting your time here trying to be "cool" with us trolls, someone your age should be spending his time with real other people at his age and developmental level. why don't you go partake in some time-honored American extracurricular activities? you could go and join the Boy Scouts, sign up for ROTC (the War on Terror needs you), or if you're one of them new-age sensitive guys [www.dobi.nu], you can learn some Home Ec or something. just stop gallavanting around here like a damn fool.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:This is pathetic (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @12:39PM (#4685992)
I just LOVE Klerck's site [klerck.org]! Especially the "fash" section [klerck.org], where I learned to cut the bottom off of an old pair of testicles to use as a hair enhancement! Oh, and the "fetish party" photos [klerck.org]!
Of course, don't forget to read Klerck's emails [rotten.com]! Here you will discover how truly difficult it is to decide what to do on the weekends... have an orgy? A mass rape party? Go to the mall and sodomize yourself with splintery broomsticks? Autofellate or autoeroticasphixyate yourself?
In short, if you haven't checked out Klerck's site [goatse.cx], you don't know what you're missing!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
YOOOOU ARE TEH GAY! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:42AM (#4685454)
In A.D. 2002
Faggotry was beginning.
AV3: What happen?
Phone Boy 1: Somebody pump us up the butt
Phone Boy 2: We get no lubricant
AV3: What!
Phone Boy 2: Main cock turn hard
AV3: It's You!!
Vlad: How are you fagmasters!!
Vlad: All your females are belong to us
Vlad: You are on the way to death by aids
AV3: What you say!!
Vlad: You have no chance to survive smoke your pole
Vlad: HA HA HA HA....
AV3: Take off every 'cockring'
AV3: You know what you doing
AV3: Move 'jizcatcher'
AV3: For great justice
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
January 1st, 2003: daily countdown. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @07:01AM (#4684935)
The countdown: 45 days
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:49AM (#4684907)
who on earth could have brought such a sudden tidal-wave of vitality back to this cruddy excuse for a secret sid? why, momochrome of course! only his brilliance could possibly have re-invigorated such a sad state of degeneracy and breathed new life back into this feeble excuse for a troll collective.
All hail momochrome!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:59AM (#4684931)
Also, the "tidal-wave of vitality" had been ongoing for quite some time before Mr. Momochrome became overcome with jealousy that people were talking about someone other than him and thus decided to throw his hat into the ring. He's nothing. A washed-up has-been. Nowadays, who even remembers who Momochrome was? I sure don't fucking remember, and I've been into the Slashdor troll-scene hardcore since before the scene existed. Momochrome was a one-line footnote on page 4,275 of the history of trolling, and most people didn't even bother to read that page, let alone the footnotes.
Momochrome who?? Doesn't ring a bell.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:trolltalk srings to life! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @07:06AM (#4684944)
apologies
Apology \A*pol"o*gy\, n.; pl. Apologies. [L. apologia, Gr. ?; ?
from + ?: cf. F. apologie. See Apologetic.] 1. Something said or written in
defense or justification of what appears to others wrong, or of what may be
liable to disapprobation; justification; as, Tertullian's Apology for
Christianity.
It is not my intention to make an apology for my poem; some
will think it needs no excuse, and others will receive none. --Dryden.
2.
An acknowledgment intended as an atonement for some improper or injurious remark
or act; an admission to another of a wrong or discourtesy done him, accompanied
by an expression of regret.
3. Anything provided as a substitute; a
makeshift.
He goes to work devising apologies for window curtains.
--Dickens.
Syn: Excuse.
Usage: An apology, in the original sense
of the word, was a pleading off from some charge or imputation, by explaining
and defending one's principles or conduct. It therefore amounted to a
vindication. One who offers an apology, admits himself to have been, at least
apparently, in the wrong, but brings forward some palliating circumstance, or
tenders a frank acknowledgment, by way of reparation. We make an apology for
some breach of propriety or decorum (like rude expressions, unbecoming conduct,
etc.), or some deficiency in what might be reasonably expected. We offer an
excuse when we have been guilty of some breach or neglect of duty; and we do it
by way of extenuating our fault, and with a view to be forgiven. When an excuse
has been accepted, an apology may still, in some cases, be necessary or
appropriate. ``An excuse is not grounded on the claim of innocence, but is
rather an appeal for favor resting on some collateral circumstance. An apology
mostly respects the conduct of individuals toward each other as equals; it is a
voluntary act produced by feelings of decorum, or a desire for the good opinion
of others.'' --Crabb.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You idiot. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:56AM (#4684925)
Momochrome is nothing. Trollaxor is a 5000% better troller than Momochrome is, 300% more intelligent, 1000% more creative, at least 35% more handsome, and he has sex nearly three times as often. Momochrome isn't the king of Trolltalk and never was; the king of Trolltalk has always been Mr. Trollaxor. Other trolls have come and other trolls have gone, but Trollaxor has been running this show this entire time. Idiots. Don't you know who your leader is? You will soon.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:38AM (#4684788)
TROLLTALK PERSONAL ADVERTISEMENTS
YOUR LOVE CONNECTION FOR THE TROLLER SCENE
Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks seeks friendship, pen-pals, romance, and marriage. Very attractive [att.net]. Into BSDM / watersports / felching. Passions include Socialism, anal sex, and protesting (anything!). I am an excellent Slashdot troller. I've been a writer for reputable and unbiased news-journals such as Indymedia.org, Adequacy.org, and my new weblog, IniquityDaily.com! If you care about any of these things, or if you'd just like to listen to me tell you all about my life for hours on end, or even if you'd just like to get together for some buttfucking, I'd like to hear from you! Male or female, young or old... I can't afford to be picky! (No further inquiries from Scott Lockwood will be accepted, though.)
Write to:
Esther Sassaman
2776 Hampshire Blvd #B1
Cleveland Heights, OH 44106.
Or e-mail me [mailto]. Or call me at (216) 321-3546. I don't get many phone calls, and the last person who called me hung up on me and it made me sad. Hope to hear from you soon!
Love,
Perdida
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Lame (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @10:19AM (#4685368)
What are you trying to accomplish by that? Do you want to force her to leave k5 and change her nick?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Lame (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @11:34AM (#4685665)
That would be nice, actually.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Single Jewish bisexual geek-grrl seeks romance. (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @06:42AM (#4684900)
would I ever be this bitter about perdida? only if I couldn't posess her.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
QwErTyUiOp AsDfGhJkL zXcVbNm 1@3$5^7*9)!2#4%6& (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:33AM (#4684777)
thank you trooltalk for making me feel "normal" again.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @05:30AM (#4684771)
Years ago, I won the battle of the sids, and relegated all the old-guard troll cabal to the obscurity of a clumsy mailing list. I graciously left ?sid=trolltalk to the neophytes and amateurs, as a sort of stomping ground wherein they might practice the craft. Trolltalk survives today as ?sid=20721, and the tradition had continued quite nicely until recently.
Now it appears that inter-factional rivalry is attempting to rear its ugly head. The phoneboy cabal, after such ruthless and base treatment of vlad, in a capacity quite extending beyond that which is decent, breaking the code of troll ethics, our own version of 'honor among thieves', and in fact, quite actually breaking several state and federal anti-trolling laws, have debased this once lovely stomping ground and brought their diseased and perverted notions into the fore. And now they promise to utterly dominate the underworld of our own slashdot! This cannot be allowed to happen.
With Klerck acting as regent during the Geekizoid era (and furthering the art of the troll with skill and finesse, I might add), the slashdot underground moved along nicely, with the occasional hiccough brought on by taco and his feeble anti-trolling efforts.
And so, as your rightful King, I do hereby proclaim an edict: Henceforth, anyone attached to the Phoneboy Cabal is to be considered corpus memento, and is to be treated as such with extreme prejudice.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Generous RePOST (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 16, @11:36AM (#4685674)
Anyone who believes that "honor among trolls" shit is a fucking moron.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Moderation Totals: Troll=1, Total=1.
|=====D = its almost about to erupt!
Nero-burning ROM for Linux!
I use windows primarily because:
- It has the applications i need
- I don't run servers at home
and 3-2-go....
fuck
Upper Dublin says hi
guess i should have logged in.
yes, i got the 3000th post
- meta.chris (35496)
(Upper Dublin, PA)
You heard me!
What do you think all that java "write once, run everywhere" was all about ? Also note that it totally failed.
Why doesn't everyone just write their code in a lisp and we all aggree on a common interpreter to be used on all machines ?
Because it's too damn slow, that's why.
I use Macromedia's Studio MX. There is simply nothing better than Dreamweaver for HTML editing... at least nothing I've found. Everything I've tried, and believe me, I've tried a lot, pales in comparison to the Studio. I'm not a big fan of Macromedia, but the MX products are absolutely top notch.
The one other application I have trouble leaving behind on Windows is UltraEdit. There is not a better text editor out there, and I am a big VIM fan/die hard. Never did get into Emacs, but I very seriously doubt it has the ease of use and power that UltraEdit has.
If studio MX and Ultraedit were available natively on Linux, I'd switch. The last remaining applications tying me to all my machines being Linux would be games.
As it stands right now, however, my only "main" Linux machine is my secondary work laptop (the one I use the most), with my primary being forced onto 2000 because of our Exchange server.
I really want to ditch MS windows but I cannot get my DVD playout to work nor my ATI Radeon 7500 TV-out function to work perfectly. I am a very busy individual and have dedicated whole weekends for 2 months trying to make it work by reading all the messages linux users send to each other on the web and nobody's suggestions have resulted in a working system for me. I am a developer but am new to Linux and again, too busy to develop or improve upon other people's work to make my system work.
Windows was working perfectly in under 2 days (actually 2 nights after work). Now I have my home-theater system minus a pro stereo. I will keep looking at linux and testing it from time to time.
Lastly I do not like Linux's dependency-hell. I'd rather download a huge app that has everything statically linked and compiles/installs without a hitch.
Honestly, there's only one thing keeping a Windows partition on my home PC... Everquest.
I'm so ashamed.
As pretty as OSX is the Apple desktop is hard to justify.
Personally, I don't think the desktops are any harder to justify than the laptops...
A friend of mine, who is the IT director for a warehouse here in town, just bought 24 new iMac G4-700's for $1200/each. He said given the requirements (all-in-one form factor, LCD monitor, CD-RW), the iMac G4 was easily the most cost effective solution. The cheapest overall machine that fit the requirements was one from Gateway that was $200 less, but the increased stability of OS X over XP and the fact that setting up the database client software would require about half the hassle made him go with the iMac G4.
I have another friend who bought a new Dell desktop about 8 or 10 months ago. It is a P4, I believe 1.4 or 1.5GHz with 256MB RAM and a CD-RW. At the time, I believe he paid around $900 for the system plus 17" CRT. He originally asked my advice on what to get, and, although I suggested the base model iMac G4 to him, he ended up getting the Dell. And since then, I've had at least one call a week from him because his system just magically rebooted itself or some drivers are blowing up or the printer wont print or any of a thousand different things. And each time, I would make sure to remind him, "Hey man, if you had spent the extra couple hundred dollars, you wouldn't be having these problems." Well, a week and a half ago, he sold his Dell and monitor to some guy on his street and ordered himself a brand new iMac G4.
Perhaps the value of the Apple desktops isn't quite as apparent as their notebooks, but as the two stories above show, I've personally seen two different people realize for themselves just how much value the Apple desktops do have.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Most of my physics software packages simply do not run on any machine without a Microsoft Windows operating system.
All of the lab machines here run Windows 2000, as it was the first stable and well-rounded operating system to ever come out of Redmond, Washington (Microsoft headquarters).
It's all about the applications, and not just conusmer ones either. I'm talking about the apps used by researchers in the area of physics, mechanics, thermodynamics, etc.
Department of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, Halifax, N.S., Canada, B3H 3J5
Last Post!
This will be the final message posted for this story. The "Last Post" (TM). There will be no more...ever.
Yes, you heard me byatchez!
I'm tha laaste fookin' puhoast.
No more post for you.
wh00t! werd to ya momz an' to ya papz! booyah! propz to all ded homiez!
schizzel ma' nizzle, byatch!
-ac in da' haus
Oh well, on to 4000...
thats a lot of posts.
eat a dick and lick a million mother fucking cocks per second
Does it create a set of mail folders for each email address?
I don't want four hundred sets of folders, I want all my email addresses to share the same inbox, outbox, sent, drafts, trash, etc.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I currently use Windows XP for nearly everything. I use Linux (RedHat 7.3?) in my Java class at a private technical school that I'm currently attending. I have tried several times in the past to install Linux (usually RedHat but also Mandrake 8.0) on my computers and have *always* run into something that really prevented me from using it efficiently - or even at all.
:)) and wanted to give Linux a shot. I picked up a copy of Mandrake 8.0 and ran home like a giddy school girl. The installation was smooth, most of my hardware auto-detected and installed and I was on my way! I set up my internet account and tried to configure my modem. What's this? My modem doesn't work. I looked at my modem (which had worked fine on Windows 98) closely for the first time. Oh no! A winmodem!!! It was a lucent chipset and I was actually able to find a driver for it (though it did take about 2 days). Talk about amazing! After downloading it (I forgot to mention that I was dual-booting to 98) and putting it where I could get to it, I went back to Mandrake. And began following the instructions that came with the driver. It asked me to remove the current driver if there was one present. My modem's enumerator apparently had been detected and installed and so I looked for ways to uninstall it. I looked... and looked and looked and looked - you get the point. I could not find a way to do it, I don't know if I need to recompile the kernel or what, but remember, I am a newbie here, I don't know how to recompile the freaking kernel! I'm just installing Linux so that I can LEARN how to use it! Eventually I gave up on that and hoped that it wouldn't matter. Using whatever RPM program came with Mandrake I installed the driver. Nothing happened, no new hardware detected no nothing. I dinked around with it for several weeks (all the while still using Windows 98), I sent emails, I posted questions in various Linux-help forums. The replies I got were brief and not helpful, many of them pointed me back to the sigh where I downloaded the driver originally (which I had practically memorized). I was frustrated. While Linux would run on my machine, I had no internet access, which limited 80% of what I did on my computer at the time. Finally I backed up my needed files and installed Windows 2000. It ran well and was much more stable than Linux.
... and so on a so forth. Unfortunately I just couldn't get past these elementary things to even find out if I LIKED using it as a permanant solution to MS. I am not a complete idiot (my tested IQ is around 135), I am not grandma, I work in the IT industry for pete's sake! For me, Linux needs either better documentation or easier configuration/setup. Please feel free to disagree with me or call me stupid. I don't care... it still won't get my modem working.
I like to think of myself as someone who knows their way around a computer fairly well. My first computer was a 286 with 1 MB of RAM (I think?) and ran DOS. I have been very interested in computers my whole life and have worked as a technician building and troubleshooting windows/hardware as well as worked as a SysAdmin for a small network of Windows NT/2000 computers for a little while and now I'm learning to program. My point, I don't claim to be an expert but I'm certainly not granny. I'm usually the one that friends and neighbors call when they can't figure something out.
I first installed Linux about 4 years ago. I was irritated by Windows 98 always crashing and had heard about the stability and speed that Linux offered as well as it being free. I was about 18 at the time, had no experience with Linux and really noone around me who did, but I thought that I would be able to work it out with the documentation available online. I installed RedHat (5.x I think?) and could not for the LIFE of me get my hardware ISA 56k modem working. It's pretty hard to get help online when your modem isn't working. I ran to another computer and looked and looked and poked and read. I could not get it to work. Maybe I'm stupid, but this isn't really about that is it... it's about why I'm not using Linux.
Soon after I left the country and didn't even have my own computer for a while. Later, when I finally got my own computer again (I was in Moscow at the time) I decided I was fed up with Windows 98 (again
I would much rather have used Linux. I like the idea of Linux, I like the idea of a community of computer-savvy users banding together to topple the monopoly of Microsoft
That's my experience to take as you wish.
- Benjamin Choate
P.S. - I'm back in the States now and have a "new" (to me) computer. I have XP on it right now, but, due to a faulty mothergboard, I could not install Linux, but for some reason could install XP. I don't hold that against Linxu, I just need a new MB.
at home it's basically only games,
at work we simply have to have win nt workstation even though all our development work is on solaris (it's company policy and we have to be able to use outlook (because of exchange - email, calendar, book the conference rooms etc.) and ms office)
erik
...all excited, don't know why...
Might as well tack on another one before this one shuts up for good.
Im a student reading Environmental Science at the University of Southampton in England.
:)
Southampton university is grouped within the top 10 Universities in Britain, so you'd think they'd have good computing facilities.
Allmost all of the computing services computers use Windows 98. Once shutdown each computer reinstalls windows purges the hard drive etc, im still at a loss as to why this is nessesary.
They do however provide unix machines for those of us who wish to use an alternative, however were talking redhat4 for linux and some surprisingly good SGI workstations.
So at uni I don't really have any choice but to use windows
www.sucs.soton.ac.uk
please send them some emails.
I'm using Linux as server and desktop system. I have to admit, I just can't get rid of the applications I got used to. I don't want to list all the apps I'm using in my Linux enivorment. I'm not writing this comment to tell the outside world which software I like.
Stolen software, there is another word witch starts with an w and ends with an z which I don't want to use, was making Microsoft applications very famous. I think this is one of the major reasons why people stick with windows. Looking back to my time at school, the first cd writers were out and the culture of sharing software enlarged. When disks were mainly in use there was software traded as well, no doubt but in my eyes this all starts getting big when cd writers were out.
It was just cool to own always the latest software and share it with the rest of your school to make some new, false, friends. What did they trade? Mostly Microsoft applications like the operating system itself and Office of course. People started to install the new software and stick with it without thinking about alternatives, because it is cool to have the latest Office version.
Well, what does that affect? When most people talking about computer skills the mean their ability to use Windows, Word and Excel. Remember, it is cool to run the latest verion of Office and Windows so many people are used to such software. What shall a company do? If Office is used to widely the got no chance, running Office might be the best. Switching to alternatives may be to expensive because of the needed trainings. I don't want to discuss if this really counts even if the interface of the alternative software is identically. Think about it yourself..
I don't want to say every user running one of the above mentioned software packages is running it because it's stole or something. This is indeed big nonsense. However, I just think such software trading is a damn big reason why such packages are famous.
Adobe Photoshop is shared very often, too. People start using it and discovered it is a great piece of software. Indeed it is, but everything looking different is just wasted software? Something you better move to the trash? When talking about this I think about this gimp Photoshop thingy. Is Gimp just a bad piece of software because it's interface is totaly different in most ways? Once you stick with using Gimp for a while you will findout this is mostly not true. Image what would be if Gimp would be traded that much and there would be dozens of tutorials available on the net? Would Photoshop be a "bad piece" of software just because it looks differnt? I do not want to compare Photoshop and Gimp, both are great pieces of software. Running it on Mac is just powerfull. However, I'm just trying to say don't give something a chance because it is looking different from what the know. After the first look at it, it is damn bad because the button x is not at the same place than you are used to.
Indeed, it is true, there is much more software available for MS Windows than Linux, no doublt. Does that really impress you? Earning your living by writing software what are you going to do? Let's take a "cash-cow" like a printing software for instance (maybe a id card printing software or whatever...It's not very importand anyway). Which platform would you support if you want the maximum software packets to be sold? Of course you would choose Windows.
Would that be different if Linux (just for instance) had been traded that much? Remember, it is cool to run always the lastest version of office. It's cool because of your friends, everybody thinks that so you assume it must be cool. Okay, Office is running under Linux only. What are you going to do now? No doubt, you would install Linux and stick with it! The more users the more software will be available. Think about the last paragraph now.
This is just my point of view on that. I don't think technical reasons are mainly important as I don't know of anybody comparing MS Office and Open Office (or other packages) first and then use them. I exclude special cases like server usage here...Just the mainstream systems.
I use windows because I'm just used to it. I just don't have the will to learn a new operating system. It seems that people use non-MS operating systems for the sake of appearing "cool." Because they took the time to learn a different operating system as if it's to "screw" Microsoft out of being one of their customers. Now I'm not referring to professional system admins who use unix/linux in their work environment, because in that instance there's a REASON to use non-Microsoft operating systems in the server environment... It's their job, not JUST because it's cool.
I'm at a point in my life where I'm somewhat settled in the ways I use my PC. My "life" is in my Windows XP box. Why should I chuck it all away just for the sake of being "cool" and start running Linux? The truth be told, I've already tied this, and I just didn't seen a real need. My first computer was an Atari 800XL, and I used it for a good number of years (BBSing, and e-mail, and shell accounts to access the Internet before it became popular). Even after I got my first XT clone system it took me some time to slowly move from my old Atari to the PC clone. Thank gawd for null-modem cables.
I've been using Microsoft operating systems since around MS-DOS version 4, and I've grown up with Microsoft since I was about 12 years old. So I guess I'm stuck in a rut here, using every version of windows since version 3.1. I've tried using Linux, and for the most part it worked out well, but for me there was no NEED for it. Windows is still far easier to use than Linux. I'm not a network administrator, and I have no need to run any sort of server for long term anyway, so Windows works just fine for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly pro-Microsoft, I haven't paid for a copy of windows since 3.1, and I really don't intend to in the future. Microsoft products have gotten so expensive that I have no choice but to pirate, considering all of the software I still have that requires windows. However I am more willing to drop $50 on DOOM 3, and other games and shareware I use often. Plus I spend a good $400 a year on new hardware.
3D driver install hassle. (nVidia, should be fairly easy right?)
E-Mail is not easy to move cross platform. (What is a good flexible YAM/PocoMail type mailer for Linux anyways?)
X configuration is confusing. (Oh how I miss Picasso 96 style screenmode editing...)
Hardware support for my video capture card (ATI TV Wonder VE) and my Intel "webcam" are unknown to me.
Various other little excuses to boot Windows and a 24/7 poweron tendancy. (I only have one non-Amiga PC, so I'm kinda stuck in the mud. And my DSL plan doesn't allow for much dialup time, so net is locked into the AMD box for now.)
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
Only one reason: I use my computers for business and unfortunately in my line of work, Linux and Apple applications are simply not available. Every tried to trade stocks or manage a portfolio with anything but a windws program? Not likely. It is a shame that non-microsoft developers have not been able to address this. If I could download a Linux program from MBTrading.com, Windows would be off this PC in a heartbeat.
Im a Comp Science major and ive used C, C++, ObjC, Pasca;, COBOL (ugh), and others....
.NET, but that doesnt change anything... i use VB cause it's A microsoft language with a microsoft technology.
Yes VB has all the great features of a OO language, but its language is horrible compared to C....
Yes i can use Javascript or others with
--Idiots, Every single one of YOU, A flaming mass of conglomerated morons, hey wait a second, isnt that how RAID works?
Lack of decent CUI applications! Both of the servers in my home network are running Linux; neither has X installed, which is great. At work I suffer NT4 and Win95 workstations and all Windows servers. My wife and sons are most comfortable with MS-Windows, and I have to keep them as happy as possible. So when I have to use a GUI application, better the devil I know than have to fight my way through learning, setting up and fighting X-Windows. Give me some decent CUI based office, A/V and development applications and I can trash this copy of Win98 and most of the Win95 workstations and laptops I still use.
Replacements needed: TextPad 4 w/color coding; Easy CD Creater 4; Eudora 5.1; Free Agent 1.9; DivX Player; AudioCD MP3 Studio; ACDSee 2.41; WinAmp 2.81; DB Power Amp; Winzip 8; WinRAR 3.0; Real One Player; Acrobat Reader 5. Add a decent C/Assembler IDE with debug tools for GCC, BC4.5, TASM and other cross compiler/assemblers for 8 and 16 bit embedded targets, and I'll be in great shape. (Don't even suggest emacs! I have too many years [33] working with too many other editors to be able to find my way through that rat's nest. I can't even remember vi codes from one week to the next. Joe in WordStar mode is at least semi-automatic.)
I moved to Linux because I was tired of constantly "fiddling" with Windows through the barriers that M$ puts up to "protect" the user from himself.
In general, I know what I am doing, or can find out what I need to know - if that info can be found. Windows makes that awfully difficult. Macs supposedly work perfectly all the time, but when something does go wrong nobody can fix them. Linux is just sitting there, wide open like a car hood with its carburetor ready for the tweaking.
And, when Microsoft told me that I had "called too many times" for re-install codes for Office 2000 (added a hard drive to one machine, that needed an extra call; moved it to a different machine, another call; added 256MB RAM, another call), I moved to OpenOffice. I still have XP on two machines, because it came preinstalled and it's better for games, but when I build a machine I put Linux on it.
"A generation which ignores history has no past and no future." -- Robert Heinlein
The polls in /. are clearly intended to be humor.
Treating them as objective data is insane.
Games is one thing ... I've gotten Q3A to run better under with X and Linux (Mandrake 9.0 currently) than it does under Windows ... But, the newest bestest coolest games always come out for Windows first and then, if the developers feel like it, are available for Linux ... Aggravating ...
... My work is all scientific writing (journal articles and manuscripts, research correspondence, grants, etc.), all of which require significant quantities of references ... EndNote absolutely rawks for this stuff (if you've never used it, it functions kind of like a plug-in for Word and is for managing all references and citations within a document) but it doesn't work properly under WINE yet (I've tried) and I haven't found anything for Linux/BSD that's even similar let alone remotely comparable ... If I could code, I'd work on something that would do the job, but I only know DNA and amino acid code - not software ;) ...
But by far the biggest thing keeping on Windows is one app - EndNote
Me? Debunk an American myth? And take my life in my hands?
if linux actually supported new hardware instead of antique shit from 2 years ago.
I use my computer to do work...not the other way around.
I moved to Linux because I was tired of constantly "fiddling" with Windows through the barriers that M$ puts up to "protect" the user from himself.
I often find that the people who hold this opinion are simply people that didn't know how to do it the right way, and so got frustrated with what they perceived as Windows's difficulty and obtuseness.
Macs supposedly work perfectly all the time, but when something does go wrong nobody can fix them.
No, not really. In fact, anybody who knows how to fix a Mac can fix it quite easily; in this way, it's just like Windows. But this takes knowing how to do it, which is another one of those things that frustrates people who lack the knowledge.
Linux, Windows, and the Mac are all quite complex, and difficult to understand at a low level. The difference is that both Windows and the Mac are thoroughly documented, feature-complete, and exhaustively tested. Linux is none of those things.
Linux is best described by that old saying about the singing dog. The remarkable thing is not so much that the dog sings well, but rather that it can sing at all. However, as remarkable as a singing dog is, one would not reasonably expect to replace the lead mezzo soprano with one. Likewise, as much novelty value as Linux carries with it, one would be quite foolish to expect it to do the work of Windows or a Mac.
I write in my journal
Hard-wired shared IRQs?? That means no dells, compaqs, or ibms.
I use Linux at home 100%. And when at work I have to use the OS dictated to me by the company I'm working for. Which in 99% of the cases is Windows. So Depending where I'm at when I take a poll depends on what OS I answer with. And even on Windows I use CYGWIN if at all possible.
:)
So the only thing keeping on Windows is a paycheck. But since I'm unemployed now I have no reason to use Windows at all.
Everquest
(sigh)
Well, that's the thing. I don't have to call Microsoft support. It's easy enough to browse around the GUI, and sooner or later I'll stumble across the setting I'm looking for even if I've no idea where it is.
In linux, this is impossible. Even once I know what file in what directory a setting exists in, it may not be there. It seems routine to have to create a new file or add a line with a new setting. It's a lot more difficult to come at this without prior knowledge and experience of what settings are valid and where. Browsing through a GUI to find a checkbox or drop down is much easier.
Note I said easier, and not better.
No kidding! and it is STILL growing!
what about the 9/11 discussions?
Linux, Windows, and the Mac are all quite complex, and difficult to understand at a low level. The difference is that both Windows and the Mac are thoroughly documented, feature-complete, and exhaustively tested. Linux is none of those things.
????
Linux documentation at http://www.tldp.org
Windows crash gallery http://www.scorpioncity.com/mscrash.shtml
Direction Microsoft is taking: http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm
I have yet to be able to find EQUIVALENT information on windows.
For example: I have to reload windows 9x on a laptop with no cd. Where can I find information on making a network boot disk so I can reload windows from another machine that does have a cdrom? (recent problem - laptop hard disk died)
Better yet - what's all of the information in the registry for? Why does windows have to recopy the driver files that it already has when I change network settings? The only time I found Windows information that I needed was when I talked to someone that has spent mucho dinero to go through windows training.
BTW - The only reason I still have 1 machine running windows at the office is because UPS web shipping only prints UPS labels through their windows driver if you have the Eltron printer that they sell.
-Ken
Linux documentation at http://www.tldp.org
Anybody who's used the so-called documentation on that and similar sites knows that it consists of exhaustive treatments of such critical topics as how to install Linux on a laptop with less than 4 MB of RAM, making Linux work with the ever-popular "K7S5A," how to run Quake on Linux, and installing the Caudium web server. Documents like the Open Office User's Guide, however, are conspicuously absent. Instead, the developers of Open Office expect their users to make do with a collection of poorly written and woefully incomplete "how to" pamphlets.
For all intents and purposes, Linux and non-commercial Linux applications are effectively undocumented, and that's simply not okay.
Windows crash gallery http://www.scorpioncity.com/mscrash.shtml
That's a collection of screen-shots of error conditions encountered in Winodws. Some of them are quite funny. But I fail to see the relevance of them. Any person so inclined could very easily assemble a comparable "hall of shame" comprised of Linux screen shots. Since practically no one uses Linux as a desktop operating system, however, there would be little point in it.
Hell, from my passing experience with Mozilla alone I feel quite sure I could build a complete "hall of shame" that would compare nicely with the one you linked.
Direction Microsoft is taking: http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm
I fail to see the point of linking to this article. Even a cursory examination of this author's other writings will reveal his history of bias and misrepresentation. This is basically just a somewhat longer version of "M$ sUx0rs, d00d!"
I have yet to be able to find EQUIVALENT information on windows.
Information equivalent to what? I don't understand your comparison. Have you tried the "Help" item under the Start menu? Windows comes with thorough and complete on-line help. This and a great deal more information is also available on the MSDN web site. It's very easy to find.
Where can I find information on making a network boot disk so I can reload windows from another machine that does have a cdrom?
Not being a Windows expert, I'm sure I have no idea, but I would start with bootdisk.com, then Google, then MSDN, then calling Microsoft's technical support hotline.
The wonderful thing about Windows-- and yeah, it's a wonderful thing compared to the anarchy of Linux-- is that there's always somebody you can call. With Linux and related "open source" software, you're limited to trying to track down the author of the original software-- who no longer supports it, naturally-- and hoping that he's nice enough to give you the help you need. In most cases, of course, you are simply ignored, or even verbally abused, rather than receiving any assistance.
With both Microsoft and the Linux whatever-it-is, you get what you pay for. With Microsoft, you pay for and receive help. With the Linux "community," or whatever, you pay for nothing, and you receive nothing in return.
I write in my journal
Games and mIRC
I use mIRC for so much it's not funny. It's almost like the backbone of everything I do. If there would be a linux port of mIRC that had full script support and could use the various DLLs (Recompiled with Kylix) I would have no problem there. Then there are the games. Wine just doens't cut it with them all. Also, you can't just have game support, you need a working server browser. I use ASE, so that also needs to work with WINE.
(Score:0, Interesting)
I use Windows at work and for my personal machines at home. Why?
At Work:
We're a Windows-based network, I'm an MIS guy, and that's that. I have to use it, and franky, in LAN environments Win2k has it's advantages as a server. On the desktop there are many Windows-only apps.
At Home:
I run Windows XP. It's pretty stable (slightly sell so than WIn2k, but I like the UI changes as it's been better since SP1), runs fairly fast on my high-end system (Athlong 1800+, 1GM Ram, etc.) but really it's the games and certain video editing software that keep me on the platform.
It's really all about the applications. I know several people who would switch if they had the apps. For example, my father needs Quicken and my systen needs Outlook. Neither have acceptable replacements on Linux or any other x86 *nix that I'm aware of.
While they could switch to using Macs, I have had bad experiences (on 0S 9.x, though I understand 10.x is better), and Macs are just too overpriced. Why get a Mac when an equivalent PC is 75% or less of the price?
So, for me, it's the apps.
GUGUGUGAmes.
Propz to APDKIANKLERCKRASACTIV
~Are you?
My linux-newbie-ass spent a month trying to get WINE working correctly, but it never was really up to par.
Windows
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
fuck g
Volume. The sheer volume of Windows applications.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
i never cease to be amazed at how many people are willing to go to such outrageous lengths just to express their hatred of microsoft. if you dont like windows, don't use it! there are many reasons to stick with microsoft operating systems, especially for the inexperienced user. i wouldn't trade my linux box for anything, but i don't hate people who make different chioces. my recommendation to those of you who are so ardent and vocal on this topic is this: use your time, bandwith, and this site more wisely.
I wouldn't worry about .Net "smart clients" too much... the API is very well-defined, and the good folks at the Mono project are making sure the Free world will be on board.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
But are they doing clean room implementations? It doesn't look like that to me. I suspect they will that pass for now, but in the future when everyone has embraced the API, they may (will?) follow another trend.
I know about Mono, it looks very promising.
unfinished: (adj.)
TROLLIN'
alright partner keep on trollin'
baby you know what time it is
chocolate starfish keep on trollin' baby
move in, now move out hands up or hands down
back up, back up tell me what ya gonna do now
breathe in, now breathe out hands up or hands down
back up, back up tell me what ya gonna do now
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (what)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (come on)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (yeah)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin'
now i know y'all be lov'in this shit right here
l.i.m.p bizkit is right here
people in the house put them hands in the air
cause if you don't care,
then we don't care 1, 2, 3, times two to the six
jonesin' for your fix of that limp bizkit mix
so where the fuck you at punk,
shut the fuck up and back the fuck up,
while we fuck this track up
now move in, now move out hands up or hands down
back up, back up tell me what ya gonna do
now breathe in, now breathe out hands up or hands down
back up, back up tell me what ya gonna do now
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (what)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (come on)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (yeah)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin'
you wanna mess with limp bizkit (yeah)
you can't mess with limp bizkit (why)
because we get it on every day, and every night (oh)
and this platinum thing right here (uh, huh)
yo we're doin' it all the time (what)
so you better get some beats and a some better rhymes (dough)
we got the gang set so don't complain yet
twenty four seven never beggin' for a rain check
old school soldiers blastin' out the hot shit
that rock shit puttin' bounce in the mosh pit
now move in, now move out hands up or hands down
back up, back up tell me what ya gonna do
now breathe in, now breathe out hands up or hands down
back up, back up tell me what ya gonna do now
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (come on)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (what)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin' (yeah)
keep trollin', trollin', trollin', trollin'
So that I can play Windows Media files!!!
Close already.
Who cares? No one can read this at anything under 4 anyhow.