I (laughs to myself) am acctually 25, that doesn't mean i haven't been coding for a while. I WAS (past tense here) a CS major. I now am in the Air Force working at the NSA as a programmer.
No, I haven't read ISO/IEC 14882-1998, nor have I claimed to. Of course, it hardly matters, as microsoft's perversion of open standards is well documented, and i don't have time or space to get into that argument here. If you try to tell me that MS's compilers follow the standards, I will simply laugh at you, then ask "who's standards?".
now...as for the personal attacks...that's just low. if you have to attack me on a personal level because you can't think of anything else to say, then i pitty you, i really do. your reply started well, but the last part of your comment just proves that not only are you ignorent, but immature as well.
yes, but more often than not, being a CS major taints these things...you can no longer look at them from the objective point of view that is that of the user.
i am guilty of this as much as many other/.'rs are.
Well, once you start programming outside of the classroom you'll appreciate.NET's elegance. Although I'm a relatively new programmer (6+ years of professional experience), I've worked with many 10+ year developers (BSC, MSC, and those with just an HS degree) and although not all of them love Microsoft, they will definitely agree that.NET is a huge step in the right direction for Windows based software and Web Applications.
um...and what makes you think i'm in a classroom? i code yes, i have a CS background yes, but let input a few things here...i'm not a 23 yearold grad student. i've been there, done that..NET can be nice...but it has too many limitations, and just too inefficent for what we (DOD/NSA) are doing. if you write a program in.NET, you have to have the.NET framework installed for the program to work...not always possible. granted it has it's place, but for performance and compatability it sucks ass.
There's this little science called statistics, and it requires a sample size. So who cares if your sound card works in linux? That doesn't mean that everyone else's will.
this is exactly the point i was trying to make. "just because it does/doesn't work for you doesn't make it so."
These days I end up doing mostly Java, and prefer the Win32 JVM
ok...then have you used jdk for linux? if so, why? java is an open standard (or was ment to be)...so why develop for only the MS implamentation?
I tried moving to Gentoo recently at home and failed. Why? Games, Palm, Photoshop. GIMP doesn't compare to Photoshop
that depends totaly on what you are doing. for most users, gimp is plenty. in fact, on my windows partition (granted i haven't booted it in about a year or so), gimp worked fine for everything i needed it to do. unless you are a serious photoshop developer, gimp will work fine. never mind the plugins that are availible for it (both free and non-free).
What Linux doesn't have is a *consistent* interface. Yeah, GNOME looks funky. KDE is looking sweet these days too. But why should the user be subjected to different UIs and interface standards (copy-paste etc.) depending on the toolkit the programmer chose?
granted this is true. however...highlight and middle-click (both left and right button at the same time for those emulating 3 buttons) is far nicer than the ^c ^v of windows, and is pretty standard in the XFree86 system (WM usually doesn't make a difference). true *nix developers need to choose their interface, shortcuts, etc. i have, however, run into several programs in windows that didn't behave as though i though they would/should. again, this a a programmings issue, not an OS issue.
Hardware...Linux won't even recognise my scanner (Canon FB630U) despite the SANE version I'm using supporting it. My Palm is out as QuickOffice doesn't sync with Linux (and I'm too lazy to write a conduit, despite QO files being just HTML on the Palm side). Oh, and it doesn't like all the buttons on my Logitech Mouseman. Dang nabbit.
my mouseman works just fine...i just told XF86 that i was using a mouseman and it was fine. this step shouldn't be necisary granted, but many distros include and autodetect function that will config this for you...so it's a non issue. as for your scanner...i have posted many times about the manufacturer not helping open source people develop drivers for hardware. oh, and palm works find under linux...(depends on distro, etc...). i spent maybe 2 hours total configuring my desktop and server in linux. i spent more that that with 1 windows installation alone.
the bottom line is that everyone's experiance is different. can linux take the desktop? yes, and you are right, it will take a little work for it to do so. on the other hand, for the common tasks of an office environment, linux (with a skillfull admin), could easily smack windows down.
i have taken the time to post to most of the responses here, which i normaly don't do...but if i am wrong, or am incorrect...e-mail me...i dare you to prove me wrong. in fact, i hope you do.
1) You do not HAVE to use.net when coding in windows. I right all of my code in windows and I use gcc. I this is a non-issue.
give it time...that will change...
2) I play games.
at home...i can understand this, but where linux has to make the difference is in business. if business uses linux on the desktop (many companies ban gaming, even solitare), then getting the gaming companies to port to linux won't be a problem. for more, read on...
This is hard to argue, the interfaces are good, just not as good.
this is part of the previously mentioned...what...is opengl not a good interface? the problem is that most current games are so dependant on direct x that it's hard to port. notice the games that have the option of opengl tend to be the ones that are easily ported to several systems, not just linux...
My sound card does not work in Linux (at least not well). I have a soundblaster audigy platinum. It is a PAIN to get working
mine works fine...this isn't an OS related issue. i also know people that have problems running soundblaster anything under windows. hell, my logitec joystick works under linux, but not windows (at least not correctly). hardware compatability will always be an issue, no matter what os you are running. if you are saying more hardware runs under windows, you are right, but also remember that many hardware companies develop for windows and that they aren't helping the open source people. this doesn't mean windows is better on the desktop, it means that there needs to be either more open standards, or that people need to realise what a market open source can be. after all. i would rather spend more money on a piece of hardware that will work under ANY os i choose to run than to pick the cheapest. to that effect...i have noticed that you get what you pay for in hardware...
first of all, it's hard to talk as both a CS major and a user at the same time. it just is. as a CS major you are a programmer. as a user, you are a user. these are two opposite points of view. yes, programmers are trying please the users, but we all know that it can't be done (perfectly at least)
second of all kde 3 (in my opinion, and that's what we are talking about here, is oppinion) is getting pretty polished.
third, as far as e-mail clients go...one is as good as the next. if we are talking about outlook + exchange i can see your point. other than that...we (when i worked for an isp) encouraged our users to use eudora because most found it was easier to use, less chance of executing a virus, and less hassle to support.
fourth, most people do run decent hardware. when i worked for an isp, we flat out REFUSED to support winmodems. we didn't care what os you used, we didn't like dealing with the headache, so it's not a windows issue...it's a hardware issue. anyone who chooses to use hardare that isn't "mainstream" runs a risk, whether in linux or windows, as to whether or not they will recieve support, will it work, etc. after all...with XP, to be supported, the driver has to be certified by MS. if some podunk NIC is giving you a problem, it will probably be a problem no matter what. in linux, at least you have the advantage of forums to tell you if you f*cked, or if there is a fix. try getting that help from MS.
all that aside. i'm not saying that MS doesn't have it's place, but what i'm trying to say is that Linux isn't as nasty/hard/obtuse as most people make it out to be. do i have any illusions that linux will rule the world? no. we can be competitive given the chance...
granted...but i have to say that klines and ksolitare rule;-)
aside from all that...i can't tell much of a difference in open office vs office xp. but again, that's me.
outlook and outlook express suck. i've had to support them both, and nobody i know likes them for their e-mail capability. if we are talking about outlook & exchange with the calander shareing and all, i can understand...but on a pure e-mail level...even eudora on windows is better than outlook.
oh, and before i forget...i know this is my experiance, but IE is slower than even netscape 6. reason? most of the time IE waits to grab the whole page before rendering it. in netscape/mozilla, as soon as a link appears, i can click on it, even if the rest of the page hasn't be grabbed yet...but that's me...
1.) if you are a comp sci major (as am i)...how could you possibly like windows (besides the obvious). have you taken a look at the size of the MSDN libs lately?!?!? hello...in.NET they DEPRICATED IOSTREAM.H!!! never mind the bloat that goes into their APIs.
2.) not evey single person is in your situation. i have never said "i can't do this in linux, i must re-boot to windows". if you are a comp-sci major that is only interested in game development or 3d rendering, i can understand, but even heavy duty rendering is done on *nix systems. very few of the 3d visualization systems i've worked on were windows based...
3.) we DO have features and smooth interfaces...we also have a lack of both. it depends on the disto, packages installed, etc.
4.) my sound card, zip drive, webcam, nic card, video card, and joystick all work in linux. the only time you tend to run into the problem of hardware incompatability is when you are running hardware that is made by companies with chipsets that aren't in common usage, or the company doesn't want to release the info to developers that they need to write open source implamentations of the drivers. if you stick with hardware that is even remotely common you shouldn't have a problem. if so...a great wizzard comp-sci major like you should have a problem looking at either the man page or linuxdocs.org right???
i'm in the Air Force, and arround the non-classified network, they use primarily NT for the reasons you mentioned. on the cassified side of things (air walled from the world), they use linux, bsd, solaris, and irix (and yes irix CAN be locked down...).
on a more interesting note...the USMC has a large investment in *nix systems. most of the systems they use on a daly basis (at least here) are *nix based. most of the regular office workers use xterms for god's sake! when i "shipped" (went through a processing station to leave the local area and go to basic), the people there all had xterms as their desktops.
*nix systems have plenty of software out there, and when in doubt...write your own. most big companies write their own propriatary software to handle their needs anyway (on both winblowz and *nix systems). hell, i've run in to many small companies that write their own stuff (or modify the open source solution) because it doesn't *quite* meet their needs. but then again...that's just my experiance...by no means am i saying that it's always that way...
as i said...there are plenty of people using *nix solutions and have no problem with it. for example, i had a friend (a total computer newbie) that was surfing the web on my box (debian/unstable with kde3). they were able to chat, surf the web, and work in open office all without me having to tell them how to do anything. what is my point? this person kept telling me that they didn't know if they could ever work on anything but windows...(yes, they were so clueless that they had no idea they were on a linux system).
at this point, even a newbie can work on a working *nix desktop. put a windows user in front of OSX and they can do their job...click on an icon, use dropdown menus, etc. the look and feel is different, yes...but the basic concept is the same, and thus it isn't as hard to re-train people as one might think...
I know this probably be read...and it's redundant...
i run linux and bsd at home, but i'm forced to use winblowz at work (and yes i feel tainted because of it...)
i read and post to/. at both places...so i add one to each tally...yes it evens out...but i'm sure there are many out there that *have* to use windows and do most of there surfing from work...after all...if you are running a linux server environment (trasparently), what else do you have to worry about at work beside keeping up with/.???
(yes, i know that server and firewall config can play with os reporting, blah, blah, blah...)
The story never mentions *how* they plan to force users of older systems to patch and upgrade their security. As has been the topic of many a comment, the biggest problem in security is an admin/user who doesn't patch. If they haven't been able to get people to patch in the past, how do they think they can force a win95 user to patch their box now?
The best they can hope to do as far as *forcing* upgrades is making the automatic "microsoft update" manditory and non-removable. Imagine the uproar...
Second, a reality check...you will never squash all bugs. Software is a dynamic beast, especially when it comes to operating environments. As the systems grow and functionality increases, so do the chances for bugs. It's a simple fact that the more lines of code you have, the more bugs you have. Microsoft is as able to squash all bugs in all their software as any *nix system is to fix every single bug in theirs. It just isn't going to happen...no system is perfect.
"Nice to see Microsoft taking reponsibility for their mistakes, but they really should have done so when they designed Windows"
I particularly liked that part...as the current incarnation of the internet did NOT exist when the first versions of DOS came out. Heck, most people didn't know what a dialup was when 3.1 came out. Early MS systems were never designed to be multi-tasking, let alone multi user, and therefore never needed security...it simply wasn't thought necisary. If the computer is going to be used by one person and not connected to the net (such was the case in the early 80's), then why include extra usless security code? The same design base was used and simply extended to maintain backward compatability as time progressed. Thus MS saying that their design is fundamentaly insecure...because it didn't HAVE to be secure in the early days. After all, it's easier to expand than re-write...especially if you do want to backward compatability.
As I see it, the sins of the past are more about business practice (which is abhorent), than it is about software design. After all, they have migrated their new OS's to a fundamentaly NT based system, and have increased security and stability in the process. I'm not saying they don't have a ways to go, I'm just saying that it is better than it was.
In anycase...I'm happy with debian, so I don't care what they do for my sake. I hope that something good comes of this so that my parents can get a more stable and more secure OS...
they still run B5...every weekday at 5PM eastern. acctually, they may not be doing it on fri., i would have to double check. in any case, they are currently showing the first season.
um...if you want to live on the bleeding edge and have all the perks of debian...why not just install "unstable"? there are several good iso's out there for this purpose. oh, and debian's unstable still tends to be rock solid. i've been running it on my desktop for months with kde3 and such...not a single hickup...
the only problems i've had are the occasional broken package while apt-get upgrading, but those were all fixed in 24 hours or less.
if they do change their pricing based on useage, i guess all of those people having to download constant patches and service packs for windows are going to hate life:-)
to be fair, i have apt stuff in cron so my debian box is constanly updated...but usually the sizes of the packages are small...untill a new stable is released and i have to do a dist-upgrade...but that's rare.
in any case...this looks to me like a bit of FUD...wow...FUD on./??? i never thought i would see the day;-)
This has probably been said before, but what about the nice pretty gui front-ends for the apt/dpkg system? I mean, gnome-apt, kpackage...
with these tools not only can you see a list of availible packages, but you can search through package names, their content, a few other things.
I know there are other tools out there, but if you are running a gui, these tools make installing new packages and even searching for a package that performs a certian function (but that you may not know the name of) a breeze!
...developers and all debian users only run it once ever.
From then on, they just apt-get new versions.
And this is a bad thing???;-) I think that a lot of us debian folk love debian for just that reason...but, of course, i'll be modded redundant for that, but it's still true...
Um...maybe I'm the only one here who has ever installed NT??? I mean...it's not like the fist half of ANY NT based install startes out with an ASCII interface that some people find even harder to use than ncurses.
Well, occasionally, you'll end up with a new-to-UNIX user who remembers DOS, or has used a terminal-based app before at work. What have they probably never seen before? ncurses
As others have mentioned, this type of interface was not only prevelent during the DOS days, but many of these interfaces weren't as easy or intuitive as ncurses. When I finaly made the switch to linux (about 5 years ago), I had no problems with the install interface. Now granted I might be a rareity, but if I can walk new users through it all the time, and they don't complain...then from what I have seen, your argument is not very valid. Of course the others are right, it's also nice to have access to an install interface that is not video driver dependant.
Ok, ncurses isn't as flashy as a GUI, so maybe we start out with some simple ncurses stuff untill we can get X11 installed and running a svga xserver to compleate the installation...just a thought, but it should be feasible...
As for your regular Debian bashing...I can't imagine why you would want to bash Debian. True the install system isn't as easy as Redhat, but with 3.0 they have made a lot of improvements. Debian is IMHO easily the most stable distro out there. Even Debian's Sid (unstable) is fairly rock solid in my experiance. For those less daring, the stable distro simply does not break. Granted you won't be running the latest and greatest versions of software, but with the stability, simplicity of package management, the ease of security patching (just proper lines in your sources.list and an addition of a cron job), and the ton of pre-packaged software availible...it's a damn good system. If stability is a primary concern, I can't think of a better distro. After all...what is one of the biggest complaints of windows people? "It crashes all the time"...
I teach this stuff too...just my $0.02
Re:Make 2.6.3 usable, never install a dot-oh versi
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Linux Kernel 3.0?
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· Score: 1
ok, if what you say is true regarding the kernel development cycle is true, then i have to ask some questions:
1. What happens when Linus decides to retire, quit, or (god forbid) passes on? Are we screwed, or is there someone out there that is willing to step up?
2. If #1 happens, will people be accepting of the new kernel god, or will people start to leave because the "Linus isn't doing it anymore" mentality will start to invade the minds of the faithful?
3. Who of the linux users out there care about version numbers, other than keeping tack of new features/updates? Hell, the new release could be 2.6, 3.0, or Linux 10k for all i care. I like linux and the GNU system, so i'll stay with it regardless of revision number.
4. As for the marketdroids, wouldn't they (and the public for that matter) be more interested in an easier to use UI, simpler install system, and better game compatability than in the actual kernel revision #?
I got my job guaranteed...it's just not guaranteed if you fail out of either basic or tech school...other than that, sure, you can get it guaranteed.
-Frozen
Re:Been there, done that, here's what I learned
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Nerds in the Air Force?
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· Score: 2, Informative
A few other things to add...
First, bring disposable razors. Not the one's with disposable blades, but the ones where to throw the whole thing out. They will make inspection time much easier. Trust me on this one.
Second, no matter who tells you what, you don't want to be noticed. This can be accomplished in part by taking a wall locker (we got to choose ours) towards the end of the bay. You get a chance to "hide" a little back there, and while they might try to get you on an inspection, you can avoid trouble by making sure you stuff is squared away. I was in the back of the bay and managed to be fairly invisible through basic.
Third, I don't care if you are religious...go to church on Sundays. I'm not religious, but I went, and you should go to. It gives you a chance to unwind from the week, get away from the TI's, and you can mail letters to home on the way;-).
Fifth, the only words you know from the time you arrive untill the time you leave basic are "Sir/Ma'am Trainee __________ reports as ordered!" And don't you dare say "Sir/Ma'am" at the end.
Sixth, the big threat is "being recycled", i.e. getting bumped from your current flight to a flight further behind you in training. In other words, being made to repeat a part of basic. The TI's will threaten you or someone else in the flight with this on a daily, if not hourly basis. Don't worry about it. You pretty much have to be a screwup to be recycled. They won't do it for petty stuff, but if you screw up big, you're done...
Remember, it's a mental game...and they are very, very good at it. They aren't trying to break you. They are trying to make you work as a team, and to pay attention to detail. The sooner you and your flight figure this out, the better off you will be. Remember that a good portion of people there are straight out of highschool. There are a lot of young, selfish, and cocky people there. The idea of basic is to break them of those habits and instill in them some teamwork and attention to detail. In short, to make them wake up to the real world.
Of course, I had a little different perspective on it, as I was 23 when I went through basic, and having lived on my own, found the games a little silly, but you still have to play by their rules...
Slashdot Mirror
No, I haven't read ISO/IEC 14882-1998, nor have I claimed to. Of course, it hardly matters, as microsoft's perversion of open standards is well documented, and i don't have time or space to get into that argument here. If you try to tell me that MS's compilers follow the standards, I will simply laugh at you, then ask "who's standards?".
now...as for the personal attacks...that's just low. if you have to attack me on a personal level because you can't think of anything else to say, then i pitty you, i really do. your reply started well, but the last part of your comment just proves that not only are you ignorent, but immature as well.
-frozen
i am guilty of this as much as many other /.'rs are.
i guess i have found a way to collect foes ;-)
-frozen
um...and what makes you think i'm in a classroom? i code yes, i have a CS background yes, but let input a few things here...i'm not a 23 yearold grad student. i've been there, done that. .NET can be nice...but it has too many limitations, and just too inefficent for what we (DOD/NSA) are doing. if you write a program in .NET, you have to have the .NET framework installed for the program to work...not always possible. granted it has it's place, but for performance and compatability it sucks ass.
There's this little science called statistics, and it requires a sample size. So who cares if your sound card works in linux? That doesn't mean that everyone else's will.
this is exactly the point i was trying to make. "just because it does/doesn't work for you doesn't make it so."
-frozen
-frozen
um, i ment..."ok...then have you used jdk for linux? if not, then why not?
this is why there is a preview button ;-)
-frozen
ok...then have you used jdk for linux? if so, why? java is an open standard (or was ment to be)...so why develop for only the MS implamentation?
I tried moving to Gentoo recently at home and failed. Why? Games, Palm, Photoshop. GIMP doesn't compare to Photoshop
that depends totaly on what you are doing. for most users, gimp is plenty. in fact, on my windows partition (granted i haven't booted it in about a year or so), gimp worked fine for everything i needed it to do. unless you are a serious photoshop developer, gimp will work fine. never mind the plugins that are availible for it (both free and non-free).
What Linux doesn't have is a *consistent* interface. Yeah, GNOME looks funky. KDE is looking sweet these days too. But why should the user be subjected to different UIs and interface standards (copy-paste etc.) depending on the toolkit the programmer chose? granted this is true. however...highlight and middle-click (both left and right button at the same time for those emulating 3 buttons) is far nicer than the ^c ^v of windows, and is pretty standard in the XFree86 system (WM usually doesn't make a difference). true *nix developers need to choose their interface, shortcuts, etc. i have, however, run into several programs in windows that didn't behave as though i though they would/should. again, this a a programmings issue, not an OS issue.
Hardware...Linux won't even recognise my scanner (Canon FB630U) despite the SANE version I'm using supporting it. My Palm is out as QuickOffice doesn't sync with Linux (and I'm too lazy to write a conduit, despite QO files being just HTML on the Palm side). Oh, and it doesn't like all the buttons on my Logitech Mouseman. Dang nabbit.
my mouseman works just fine...i just told XF86 that i was using a mouseman and it was fine. this step shouldn't be necisary granted, but many distros include and autodetect function that will config this for you...so it's a non issue. as for your scanner...i have posted many times about the manufacturer not helping open source people develop drivers for hardware. oh, and palm works find under linux...(depends on distro, etc...). i spent maybe 2 hours total configuring my desktop and server in linux. i spent more that that with 1 windows installation alone.
the bottom line is that everyone's experiance is different. can linux take the desktop? yes, and you are right, it will take a little work for it to do so. on the other hand, for the common tasks of an office environment, linux (with a skillfull admin), could easily smack windows down.
i have taken the time to post to most of the responses here, which i normaly don't do...but if i am wrong, or am incorrect...e-mail me...i dare you to prove me wrong. in fact, i hope you do.
-frozen
frozencesium@hotmail.com
give it time...that will change...
2) I play games.
at home...i can understand this, but where linux has to make the difference is in business. if business uses linux on the desktop (many companies ban gaming, even solitare), then getting the gaming companies to port to linux won't be a problem. for more, read on...
This is hard to argue, the interfaces are good, just not as good.
this is part of the previously mentioned...what...is opengl not a good interface? the problem is that most current games are so dependant on direct x that it's hard to port. notice the games that have the option of opengl tend to be the ones that are easily ported to several systems, not just linux...
My sound card does not work in Linux (at least not well). I have a soundblaster audigy platinum. It is a PAIN to get working
mine works fine...this isn't an OS related issue. i also know people that have problems running soundblaster anything under windows. hell, my logitec joystick works under linux, but not windows (at least not correctly). hardware compatability will always be an issue, no matter what os you are running. if you are saying more hardware runs under windows, you are right, but also remember that many hardware companies develop for windows and that they aren't helping the open source people. this doesn't mean windows is better on the desktop, it means that there needs to be either more open standards, or that people need to realise what a market open source can be. after all. i would rather spend more money on a piece of hardware that will work under ANY os i choose to run than to pick the cheapest. to that effect...i have noticed that you get what you pay for in hardware...
-frozen
second of all kde 3 (in my opinion, and that's what we are talking about here, is oppinion) is getting pretty polished.
third, as far as e-mail clients go...one is as good as the next. if we are talking about outlook + exchange i can see your point. other than that...we (when i worked for an isp) encouraged our users to use eudora because most found it was easier to use, less chance of executing a virus, and less hassle to support.
fourth, most people do run decent hardware. when i worked for an isp, we flat out REFUSED to support winmodems. we didn't care what os you used, we didn't like dealing with the headache, so it's not a windows issue...it's a hardware issue. anyone who chooses to use hardare that isn't "mainstream" runs a risk, whether in linux or windows, as to whether or not they will recieve support, will it work, etc. after all...with XP, to be supported, the driver has to be certified by MS. if some podunk NIC is giving you a problem, it will probably be a problem no matter what. in linux, at least you have the advantage of forums to tell you if you f*cked, or if there is a fix. try getting that help from MS.
all that aside. i'm not saying that MS doesn't have it's place, but what i'm trying to say is that Linux isn't as nasty/hard/obtuse as most people make it out to be. do i have any illusions that linux will rule the world? no. we can be competitive given the chance...
-frozen
-frozen
aside from all that...i can't tell much of a difference in open office vs office xp. but again, that's me.
outlook and outlook express suck. i've had to support them both, and nobody i know likes them for their e-mail capability. if we are talking about outlook & exchange with the calander shareing and all, i can understand...but on a pure e-mail level...even eudora on windows is better than outlook.
oh, and before i forget...i know this is my experiance, but IE is slower than even netscape 6. reason? most of the time IE waits to grab the whole page before rendering it. in netscape/mozilla, as soon as a link appears, i can click on it, even if the rest of the page hasn't be grabbed yet...but that's me...
anywho...cheers!
-frozen
1.) if you are a comp sci major (as am i)...how could you possibly like windows (besides the obvious). have you taken a look at the size of the MSDN libs lately?!?!? hello...in .NET they DEPRICATED IOSTREAM.H!!! never mind the bloat that goes into their APIs.
2.) not evey single person is in your situation. i have never said "i can't do this in linux, i must re-boot to windows". if you are a comp-sci major that is only interested in game development or 3d rendering, i can understand, but even heavy duty rendering is done on *nix systems. very few of the 3d visualization systems i've worked on were windows based...
3.) we DO have features and smooth interfaces...we also have a lack of both. it depends on the disto, packages installed, etc.
4.) my sound card, zip drive, webcam, nic card, video card, and joystick all work in linux. the only time you tend to run into the problem of hardware incompatability is when you are running hardware that is made by companies with chipsets that aren't in common usage, or the company doesn't want to release the info to developers that they need to write open source implamentations of the drivers. if you stick with hardware that is even remotely common you shouldn't have a problem. if so...a great wizzard comp-sci major like you should have a problem looking at either the man page or linuxdocs.org right???
-frozen
and no wonder linux hasn't taken the *entire* world by storm...rpm hell :-P
i know this won't be read, but it had to be said :-)
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i'm in the Air Force, and arround the non-classified network, they use primarily NT for the reasons you mentioned. on the cassified side of things (air walled from the world), they use linux, bsd, solaris, and irix (and yes irix CAN be locked down...).
on a more interesting note...the USMC has a large investment in *nix systems. most of the systems they use on a daly basis (at least here) are *nix based. most of the regular office workers use xterms for god's sake! when i "shipped" (went through a processing station to leave the local area and go to basic), the people there all had xterms as their desktops.
*nix systems have plenty of software out there, and when in doubt...write your own. most big companies write their own propriatary software to handle their needs anyway (on both winblowz and *nix systems). hell, i've run in to many small companies that write their own stuff (or modify the open source solution) because it doesn't *quite* meet their needs. but then again...that's just my experiance...by no means am i saying that it's always that way...
as i said...there are plenty of people using *nix solutions and have no problem with it. for example, i had a friend (a total computer newbie) that was surfing the web on my box (debian/unstable with kde3). they were able to chat, surf the web, and work in open office all without me having to tell them how to do anything. what is my point? this person kept telling me that they didn't know if they could ever work on anything but windows...(yes, they were so clueless that they had no idea they were on a linux system).
at this point, even a newbie can work on a working *nix desktop. put a windows user in front of OSX and they can do their job...click on an icon, use dropdown menus, etc. the look and feel is different, yes...but the basic concept is the same, and thus it isn't as hard to re-train people as one might think...
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i run linux and bsd at home, but i'm forced to use winblowz at work (and yes i feel tainted because of it...)
i read and post to /. at both places...so i add one to each tally...yes it evens out...but i'm sure there are many out there that *have* to use windows and do most of there surfing from work...after all...if you are running a linux server environment (trasparently), what else do you have to worry about at work beside keeping up with /.???
(yes, i know that server and firewall config can play with os reporting, blah, blah, blah...)
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The story never mentions *how* they plan to force users of older systems to patch and upgrade their security. As has been the topic of many a comment, the biggest problem in security is an admin/user who doesn't patch. If they haven't been able to get people to patch in the past, how do they think they can force a win95 user to patch their box now?
The best they can hope to do as far as *forcing* upgrades is making the automatic "microsoft update" manditory and non-removable. Imagine the uproar...
Second, a reality check...you will never squash all bugs. Software is a dynamic beast, especially when it comes to operating environments. As the systems grow and functionality increases, so do the chances for bugs. It's a simple fact that the more lines of code you have, the more bugs you have. Microsoft is as able to squash all bugs in all their software as any *nix system is to fix every single bug in theirs. It just isn't going to happen...no system is perfect.
"Nice to see Microsoft taking reponsibility for their mistakes, but they really should have done so when they designed Windows"
I particularly liked that part...as the current incarnation of the internet did NOT exist when the first versions of DOS came out. Heck, most people didn't know what a dialup was when 3.1 came out. Early MS systems were never designed to be multi-tasking, let alone multi user, and therefore never needed security...it simply wasn't thought necisary. If the computer is going to be used by one person and not connected to the net (such was the case in the early 80's), then why include extra usless security code? The same design base was used and simply extended to maintain backward compatability as time progressed. Thus MS saying that their design is fundamentaly insecure...because it didn't HAVE to be secure in the early days. After all, it's easier to expand than re-write...especially if you do want to backward compatability.
As I see it, the sins of the past are more about business practice (which is abhorent), than it is about software design. After all, they have migrated their new OS's to a fundamentaly NT based system, and have increased security and stability in the process. I'm not saying they don't have a ways to go, I'm just saying that it is better than it was.
In anycase...I'm happy with debian, so I don't care what they do for my sake. I hope that something good comes of this so that my parents can get a more stable and more secure OS...
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the only problems i've had are the occasional broken package while apt-get upgrading, but those were all fixed in 24 hours or less.
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to be fair, i have apt stuff in cron so my debian box is constanly updated...but usually the sizes of the packages are small...untill a new stable is released and i have to do a dist-upgrade...but that's rare.
in any case...this looks to me like a bit of FUD...wow...FUD on ./??? i never thought i would see the day ;-)
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with these tools not only can you see a list of availible packages, but you can search through package names, their content, a few other things.
I know there are other tools out there, but if you are running a gui, these tools make installing new packages and even searching for a package that performs a certian function (but that you may not know the name of) a breeze!
just my $0.02...
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From then on, they just apt-get new versions.
And this is a bad thing??? ;-) I think that a lot of us debian folk love debian for just that reason...but, of course, i'll be modded redundant for that, but it's still true...
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Um...maybe I'm the only one here who has ever installed NT??? I mean...it's not like the fist half of ANY NT based install startes out with an ASCII interface that some people find even harder to use than ncurses.
Well, occasionally, you'll end up with a new-to-UNIX user who remembers DOS, or has used a terminal-based app before at work. What have they probably never seen before? ncurses
As others have mentioned, this type of interface was not only prevelent during the DOS days, but many of these interfaces weren't as easy or intuitive as ncurses. When I finaly made the switch to linux (about 5 years ago), I had no problems with the install interface. Now granted I might be a rareity, but if I can walk new users through it all the time, and they don't complain...then from what I have seen, your argument is not very valid. Of course the others are right, it's also nice to have access to an install interface that is not video driver dependant.
Ok, ncurses isn't as flashy as a GUI, so maybe we start out with some simple ncurses stuff untill we can get X11 installed and running a svga xserver to compleate the installation...just a thought, but it should be feasible...
As for your regular Debian bashing...I can't imagine why you would want to bash Debian. True the install system isn't as easy as Redhat, but with 3.0 they have made a lot of improvements. Debian is IMHO easily the most stable distro out there. Even Debian's Sid (unstable) is fairly rock solid in my experiance. For those less daring, the stable distro simply does not break. Granted you won't be running the latest and greatest versions of software, but with the stability, simplicity of package management, the ease of security patching (just proper lines in your sources.list and an addition of a cron job), and the ton of pre-packaged software availible...it's a damn good system. If stability is a primary concern, I can't think of a better distro. After all...what is one of the biggest complaints of windows people? "It crashes all the time"...
I teach this stuff too...just my $0.02
1. What happens when Linus decides to retire, quit, or (god forbid) passes on? Are we screwed, or is there someone out there that is willing to step up?
2. If #1 happens, will people be accepting of the new kernel god, or will people start to leave because the "Linus isn't doing it anymore" mentality will start to invade the minds of the faithful?
3. Who of the linux users out there care about version numbers, other than keeping tack of new features/updates? Hell, the new release could be 2.6, 3.0, or Linux 10k for all i care. I like linux and the GNU system, so i'll stay with it regardless of revision number.
4. As for the marketdroids, wouldn't they (and the public for that matter) be more interested in an easier to use UI, simpler install system, and better game compatability than in the actual kernel revision #?
anywho...just my 2 pence...
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First, bring disposable razors. Not the one's with disposable blades, but the ones where to throw the whole thing out. They will make inspection time much easier. Trust me on this one.
Second, no matter who tells you what, you don't want to be noticed. This can be accomplished in part by taking a wall locker (we got to choose ours) towards the end of the bay. You get a chance to "hide" a little back there, and while they might try to get you on an inspection, you can avoid trouble by making sure you stuff is squared away. I was in the back of the bay and managed to be fairly invisible through basic.
Third, I don't care if you are religious...go to church on Sundays. I'm not religious, but I went, and you should go to. It gives you a chance to unwind from the week, get away from the TI's, and you can mail letters to home on the way ;-).
Fifth, the only words you know from the time you arrive untill the time you leave basic are "Sir/Ma'am Trainee __________ reports as ordered!" And don't you dare say "Sir/Ma'am" at the end.
Sixth, the big threat is "being recycled", i.e. getting bumped from your current flight to a flight further behind you in training. In other words, being made to repeat a part of basic. The TI's will threaten you or someone else in the flight with this on a daily, if not hourly basis. Don't worry about it. You pretty much have to be a screwup to be recycled. They won't do it for petty stuff, but if you screw up big, you're done...
Remember, it's a mental game...and they are very, very good at it. They aren't trying to break you. They are trying to make you work as a team, and to pay attention to detail. The sooner you and your flight figure this out, the better off you will be. Remember that a good portion of people there are straight out of highschool. There are a lot of young, selfish, and cocky people there. The idea of basic is to break them of those habits and instill in them some teamwork and attention to detail. In short, to make them wake up to the real world.
Of course, I had a little different perspective on it, as I was 23 when I went through basic, and having lived on my own, found the games a little silly, but you still have to play by their rules...
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