That's why they always start with "child porn" etc, to get the "thin end of the wedge" into the Constitution. Then the hammer comes and they open it up to FAR more than "protecting the children".
I would agree with you except that i suspect that the lesson would be completely lost on the general populace.
That's why they should face the consequences of voting for people who, by proxy, break the law on their behalf. Everyone who voted for the school board that approved/was responsible for this has a share of the guilt. By having to pay higher taxes/lose services to cover the lawsuit penalties will force them to learn the lesson.
Public school employees are government employees. Therefore they are subject to every restriction that a police officer would be subject to with respect to dealing with citizens.
If the police can't stick an audio/video "bug" in a student's bedroom and then monitor it without a warrant, it's a pretty darn good assumption that a school bureaucrat can't either.
You get +5 trollage for calling me a "teabagger" because I happen to insist that government employees not trample on the Constitution when dealing with citizens.
Agreed. Don't bankrupt the tax payers because PA residents pay school taxes by district. Instead, flog them publicly and lock them up for something appropriate, like say 1 year for each laptop given out. I mean come on. What people could come to the conclusion that what they have done was a Good Idea(tm) ? Total douchebaggery.
Actually, you are wrong. The taxpayers of that district SHOULD be punished. Why? How else are we going to get responsible government? Those taxpayers have been paying the school levies and they elected the school board. By facing consequences of electing Orwellian statist morons who would do such a thing would better ensure that they not continue to do so in the future!
I would think that, to be charged with distribution, it would be necessary to show intent. Since the children didn't even know they were being recorded, they couldn't possibly have had intent. Then again, I'm not versed in PA decency laws, so I have no idea.
They "distributed" child porn soon as they received it over whatever network connection they had to the computer that recorded it.
Please shoot yourself if you think that private education doesn't do the same thing, even home schooling is mostly based on indoctrination.
I graduated from a private school. I left public school because they were both indoctrinating, and discriminating against students based on their socio-economic background.
And your home schooling example is inappropriate. Parents have the RIGHT to teach their children what they wish. They are the ones responsible for the child, after all. A parent would even have the right to install this kind of monitoring on their kid's computer. (not something I would ever do, but they do have the right to). The government does not have the right to do either.
School officials tend to think themselves as above the law / the law way too many times in my personal experience, not surprised that some decided they would also be the police in these kids homes.
They are pretty much being trained to think of themselves as such, as it suits the government educational establishment and the goals of the statists who maintain a near government monopoly on education.
IE: control the kids, control the eventual adult. Teach them that this is "normal" and that they aren't to step out of line or the state will be on them.
I hope they lose this suit. Hard.
So do I, but you will see the school district start pleading poverty, and they will get sympathetic treatment by the courts. The courts, being another government entity aren't exactly impartial.
This case should go beyond suing. These people should be locked up. They should ALREADY be locked up pending trial. People who would do such a thing, to monitor children in this way without any reason, without any consent, without any standing in law to do so are a threat to society and shouldn't be walking the streets, much less running a school!
First of all, you cannot prove that. Secondly, they knew the software was there, making them guilty of TRYING to produce child pornography.
Seriously. If they "happen" to have pictures of some kid "behaving improperly", they will definitely have pictures/movies of everything else that kid has been doing.
That is exactly what everyone who had a hand in setting this up, or who KNEW that this had been set up, should be charged with ASAP. Conspiracy to create child pornography, because they set up a situation almost CERTAIN TO PRODUCE IT!
People certainly have been charged with child porn or similar charges for a lot less, including activity that didn't actually involve a minor (ie: a cop pretending to be one). These monsters were ACTUALLY RECORDING VIDEO AND AUDIO OF CHILDREN WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT!
This is why you don't want "free" computers from the government, you want the government to NOT take that money away from you to begin with so you can buy your own computer...
It's shocking, given the general lack of tech competence by school bureaucrat types that they did this and thought they could get away with it. And why aren't there criminal charges? This isn't any different than them putting cameras (potentially) in the bathrooms of minors for the purposes of procuring child pornography.
This goes far beyond stupid school administrators, this is a blatant case of GOVERNMENT actors out of control, willfully violating the Constitution (and scores of other laws) and they need to be punished. Not just fired, everyone responsible for this need to spend some quality time in a "pound me in the ass" prison.
Whoa there! You obviously have never heard of governments and taxes... The minute they make more than $[Magic Trigger Number], they will find themselves legislated and subject to very special taxes. Because after all capitalism can only stand so much profit before big brother wants a piece of it. After all, the government works so hard to get it.
Absolutely true. When we allow government to grow so large and corrupt that it can get away with that sort of activity (and it is) it will do that.
Getting their "cut" was ultimately the real reason why the Microsoft anti-trust suit happened. Before that lawsuit, Microsoft was essentially a non player in Washington, they weren't hiring lobbyists, they weren't "greasing" the politicians, etc. It was essentially a shakedown, to teach the "new industry" a lesson, that once you get big enough to be "on the radar" you WILL play the game or ELSE. And Microsoft learned that lesson, today they waste tons of money on the "system" same as any other corporation their size.
No one works less for more and produces shoddier results and is all the greedier for it than government, politicians, and all the other parasites who live off the system.
We're the consumers. You know, the people who actually, through the supply/demand of the marketplace, ultimately decide how much their product is worth? Who are they to tell us that they have a right to make $X million per quarter, and they need special laws to prop up their broken business models?
You are slightly wrong. They actually have the RIGHT to make $UNLIMITED a quarter, if the market will support it, ie: if the demand is high enough for their product.
What they don't have the right to is to make $X a quarter REGARDLESS of market demand for their product (ie: to still make $X even if their product stinks to high heaven and no one will buy it). That is what the IP lobby is essentially demanding for their dead and gone business model to be supported with laws for. I still contend that the music industry is dying not because of the internet but because their product ultimately sucks. Quality has been collapsing over the last couple decades to the point that there is no legitimate reason to EXPECT there to be market demand for it.
Ubisoft engaging in this extreme of a level of Digital Restrictions Management makes the failure of their games to have market demand a foregone conclusion. They will, of course, blame piracy, when instead they should blame themselves.
7) You wonder how piracy numbers go up despite more and more DRM in your product.
My only hope is that 8) is: You file for Chapter 7.
Wasn't EA trying to buy Ubisoft not long ago? This DRM scheme is worse than shooting themselves in the foot, it's dropping a NUKE on their foot! EA will buy them for pennies on the dollar. That is, if there is enough left of Ubisoft after the outrage over this extreme form of DRM destroys them to be worth even wanting.
Even clueless EA has learned to not use DRM anymore.
Well, it's enough information to see "Ubisoft" as a warning label.
Of course when their PC games fail to sell they will blame piracy rather than themselves. This one is destined to fail, no way they don't get a firestorm of complaints.
Bad companies like Unbisoft need to fail in the marketplace so that their ideas are dismissed as toxic.
Looks like the Obama administration is full of Hope and Change.
No way in hell, even under the patriot act that this is legal to do to US citizens.
Then again, Obama has little faith in the Constitution, he considers it a document of "negative liberty" (see his NPR interview) that unfortunately tells he and his government lots of stuff (like this) they aren't allowed to do.
I bet #3. A high alt nuke detonation. Purpose: To create an EMP powerful enough to wipe out communications along Europe and the Middle East.
If you can't fight and their level, bring em down a notch so you now can.
If Iran does something like that (and the people in charge are actually insane enough to try it) there won't BE an Iran anymore within hours of that. They can't have more than a couple small nukes at most, hardly enough to cripple all of Europe with EMP, much less the entire Western world.
Totalitarian governments are afraid of anything they can't control. Gee, compares nicely with Obama's attitude towards Fox and the Internet doesn't it? -- Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
Exactly. Tyrants don't like dissent. Since Obama took over, all the people who 2 years ago were telling us that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" are singing a different tune.
The Iranian Mullachracy is one of the most evil, vile, and repressive regimes in history. It cannot survive much longer, as it is at odds with the vast majority of it's people, who are actually VERY pro-Western. I have friends who fled that place, and I pray for their families who are left behind.
It's very possible that tomorrow will be the final showdown between the opposition and the mad mullahs.
Gmail is just one of many means of communication they are shutting down. The reason mentioned in the article is just a flimsy excuse.
Blame piracy? I blame greed. Piracy is being used as an EXCUSE for what will certainly be a massive data mining effort which Ubisoft will sell either themselves or to third parties.
The only people punished by draconian schemes like this are legitimate customers. The game will be cracked and the "feature" bypassed probably before it reaches retail, so the argument that this and other DRM schemes will stop piracy is moot.
What are most of you DOING? I work for a company with over 800 employees, approximately 600 or so who directly use computers, that has 16 locations in the Eastern USA and we make do with TWO.
The order impacts stuff completely out of his jurisdiction. Unfortunately, for the Judge, he's just issued an order that has National and International ramifications and at least one of the companies in question happens to be based in Scottsdale, Arizona (GoDaddy...).
HOW can a state judge issue such orders? This is actually quite outside of his jurisdiction as best as I can tell.
Clearly, the judge lacks the authority. He can act only with respect to the parties present or within his state at the most, not interstate, nor internationally.
The problem is that we quit saying "no you fucking can't!" to the judiciary at all levels, some decades ago, starting with the Congress copping out on desegregation and making the courts legislate it for them. Their power has only increased unchecked since.
The end result is that judges have become tyrannical, mostly unelected black robed "monarchs" sitting on thousands of thrones, with unchecked nearly absolute power.
Clearly what is going on in this case is fraud, and the state judge is acting (probably in his own interest) to conceal the fraud.
Unfortunately for the judge in this case, it is going to be one hell of a bursting of his bubble to discover the first rule of the Internet: That being that the Internet interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it automatically. Nothing makes something infamous on the internet faster than capricious attempts to censor, especially when authority is blatantly abused.
As for H1B visas, don't get me started. They shouldn't even EXIST unless our industry is at FULL employment, and should be canceled during a recession. H1B visas exist so that foreign workers can be exploited by American companies who do not wish to pay market prices for labor. And notice there are no H1B visas for CEO's and executives, when I am sure there are Indians who can do those jobs just as good as Americans.
ROFL, troll moderation. I guess we have a slashdot mod who can't tolerate any criticism of his/her religion of man made global warming, and it's prophet, Algore.
Mod parent up. This is political payback to the civil lawyer lobby who heavily fund Democrats. When they talk about "green jobs," they're obviously talking about cases for the trial lawyers to litigate.
You can also bet that "green" products won't have a statutory limit on liability claims from injured people anytime soon. Even if one of these products turns out to have health effects worse than asbestos.....
Of course. Look at the government takeover of healthcare that is being misnamed "reform". Everyone is expected to take a hit, doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, the citizens, etc, in the form of less payment, higher taxes, higher premiums, etc. The only group left out, are, you guessed it, the trial lawyers.
I think lawsuits over the mercury in CFL bulbs are going to be the "asbestos" lawsuit bonanza of the next 20 years. The democrats don't care enough about this to ban them, the 100 watt bulb must DIE to "save the planet" from (fradulent) man made global warming! They don't care because the trial lawyers are the single biggest contributor to democrat campaigns, more than even the unions.
Considering that the whole "green" movement, like a watermelon is green on the outside and RED on the inside, I think it will be good for the rest of us if it has to choke on silly patents.
Since the bureaucracy is pushing fast approval of "green" patents, expect the USPTO, in order to make quota, start rubberstamping applications of extremely obvious and silly patents, such as "method of conserving electricity by actuating switch" (ie: turn off the lights).
About the only people who benefit from "fast tracked" patents are patent troll companies and lawyers in Texas.
Of course, the only person who seems to have benefitted from the "green" movement is it's high priest, Algore himself, who has become filthy rich off the trading of fradulent "carbon offsets", rich enough to live in a mansion that uses 20 times the electricity of an average American, to own a fleet of SUV's and limos, and to fly only on private jets.
When the doomsayers start practicing in their own lives what they wish to impose on the rest of us, I might start taking them seriously.
Slashdot Mirror
That's why they always start with "child porn" etc, to get the "thin end of the wedge" into the Constitution. Then the hammer comes and they open it up to FAR more than "protecting the children".
I would agree with you except that i suspect that the lesson would be completely lost on the general populace.
That's why they should face the consequences of voting for people who, by proxy, break the law on their behalf. Everyone who voted for the school board that approved/was responsible for this has a share of the guilt. By having to pay higher taxes/lose services to cover the lawsuit penalties will force them to learn the lesson.
Something else I neglected to add:
FYI, my idea of responsible parental monitoring of a child's computer use:
The computer (at least the one with internet access that the kids can use) is in the family room. Where I will be to watch them.
Any parent who gives their child unfettered internet access in a private place is a foolish and negligent one.
It's certainly not the job of the government or school to do monitor this, or to impose it.
Public school employees are government employees. Therefore they are subject to every restriction that a police officer would be subject to with respect to dealing with citizens.
If the police can't stick an audio/video "bug" in a student's bedroom and then monitor it without a warrant, it's a pretty darn good assumption that a school bureaucrat can't either.
You get +5 trollage for calling me a "teabagger" because I happen to insist that government employees not trample on the Constitution when dealing with citizens.
Agreed. Don't bankrupt the tax payers because PA residents pay school taxes by district. Instead, flog them publicly and lock them up for something appropriate, like say 1 year for each laptop given out. I mean come on. What people could come to the conclusion that what they have done was a Good Idea(tm) ? Total douchebaggery.
Actually, you are wrong. The taxpayers of that district SHOULD be punished. Why? How else are we going to get responsible government? Those taxpayers have been paying the school levies and they elected the school board. By facing consequences of electing Orwellian statist morons who would do such a thing would better ensure that they not continue to do so in the future!
I would think that, to be charged with distribution, it would be necessary to show intent. Since the children didn't even know they were being recorded, they couldn't possibly have had intent.
Then again, I'm not versed in PA decency laws, so I have no idea.
They "distributed" child porn soon as they received it over whatever network connection they had to the computer that recorded it.
Please shoot yourself if you think that private education doesn't do the same thing, even home schooling is mostly based on indoctrination.
I graduated from a private school. I left public school because they were both indoctrinating, and discriminating against students based on their socio-economic background.
And your home schooling example is inappropriate. Parents have the RIGHT to teach their children what they wish. They are the ones responsible for the child, after all. A parent would even have the right to install this kind of monitoring on their kid's computer. (not something I would ever do, but they do have the right to). The government does not have the right to do either.
School officials tend to think themselves as above the law / the law way too many times in my personal experience, not surprised that some decided they would also be the police in these kids homes.
They are pretty much being trained to think of themselves as such, as it suits the government educational establishment and the goals of the statists who maintain a near government monopoly on education.
IE: control the kids, control the eventual adult. Teach them that this is "normal" and that they aren't to step out of line or the state will be on them.
I hope they lose this suit. Hard.
So do I, but you will see the school district start pleading poverty, and they will get sympathetic treatment by the courts. The courts, being another government entity aren't exactly impartial.
This case should go beyond suing. These people should be locked up. They should ALREADY be locked up pending trial. People who would do such a thing, to monitor children in this way without any reason, without any consent, without any standing in law to do so are a threat to society and shouldn't be walking the streets, much less running a school!
First of all, you cannot prove that. Secondly, they knew the software was there, making them guilty of TRYING to produce child pornography.
Seriously. If they "happen" to have pictures of some kid "behaving improperly", they will definitely have pictures/movies of everything else that kid has been doing.
That is exactly what everyone who had a hand in setting this up, or who KNEW that this had been set up, should be charged with ASAP. Conspiracy to create child pornography, because they set up a situation almost CERTAIN TO PRODUCE IT!
People certainly have been charged with child porn or similar charges for a lot less, including activity that didn't actually involve a minor (ie: a cop pretending to be one). These monsters were ACTUALLY RECORDING VIDEO AND AUDIO OF CHILDREN WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT!
This is why you don't want "free" computers from the government, you want the government to NOT take that money away from you to begin with so you can buy your own computer...
It's shocking, given the general lack of tech competence by school bureaucrat types that they did this and thought they could get away with it. And why aren't there criminal charges? This isn't any different than them putting cameras (potentially) in the bathrooms of minors for the purposes of procuring child pornography.
This goes far beyond stupid school administrators, this is a blatant case of GOVERNMENT actors out of control, willfully violating the Constitution (and scores of other laws) and they need to be punished. Not just fired, everyone responsible for this need to spend some quality time in a "pound me in the ass" prison.
Whoa there! You obviously have never heard of governments and taxes... The minute they make more than $[Magic Trigger Number], they will find themselves legislated and subject to very special taxes. Because after all capitalism can only stand so much profit before big brother wants a piece of it. After all, the government works so hard to get it.
Absolutely true. When we allow government to grow so large and corrupt that it can get away with that sort of activity (and it is) it will do that.
Getting their "cut" was ultimately the real reason why the Microsoft anti-trust suit happened. Before that lawsuit, Microsoft was essentially a non player in Washington, they weren't hiring lobbyists, they weren't "greasing" the politicians, etc. It was essentially a shakedown, to teach the "new industry" a lesson, that once you get big enough to be "on the radar" you WILL play the game or ELSE. And Microsoft learned that lesson, today they waste tons of money on the "system" same as any other corporation their size.
No one works less for more and produces shoddier results and is all the greedier for it than government, politicians, and all the other parasites who live off the system.
We're the consumers. You know, the people who actually, through the supply/demand of the marketplace, ultimately decide how much their product is worth? Who are they to tell us that they have a right to make $X million per quarter, and they need special laws to prop up their broken business models?
You are slightly wrong. They actually have the RIGHT to make $UNLIMITED a quarter, if the market will support it, ie: if the demand is high enough for their product.
What they don't have the right to is to make $X a quarter REGARDLESS of market demand for their product (ie: to still make $X even if their product stinks to high heaven and no one will buy it). That is what the IP lobby is essentially demanding for their dead and gone business model to be supported with laws for. I still contend that the music industry is dying not because of the internet but because their product ultimately sucks. Quality has been collapsing over the last couple decades to the point that there is no legitimate reason to EXPECT there to be market demand for it.
Ubisoft engaging in this extreme of a level of Digital Restrictions Management makes the failure of their games to have market demand a foregone conclusion. They will, of course, blame piracy, when instead they should blame themselves.
7) You wonder how piracy numbers go up despite more and more DRM in your product.
My only hope is that 8) is: You file for Chapter 7.
Wasn't EA trying to buy Ubisoft not long ago? This DRM scheme is worse than shooting themselves in the foot, it's dropping a NUKE on their foot! EA will buy them for pennies on the dollar. That is, if there is enough left of Ubisoft after the outrage over this extreme form of DRM destroys them to be worth even wanting.
Even clueless EA has learned to not use DRM anymore.
Well, it's enough information to see "Ubisoft" as a warning label.
Of course when their PC games fail to sell they will blame piracy rather than themselves. This one is destined to fail, no way they don't get a firestorm of complaints.
Bad companies like Unbisoft need to fail in the marketplace so that their ideas are dismissed as toxic.
Looks like the Obama administration is full of Hope and Change.
No way in hell, even under the patriot act that this is legal to do to US citizens.
Then again, Obama has little faith in the Constitution, he considers it a document of "negative liberty" (see his NPR interview) that unfortunately tells he and his government lots of stuff (like this) they aren't allowed to do.
I bet #3. A high alt nuke detonation. Purpose: To create an EMP powerful enough to wipe out communications along Europe and the Middle East.
If you can't fight and their level, bring em down a notch so you now can.
If Iran does something like that (and the people in charge are actually insane enough to try it) there won't BE an Iran anymore within hours of that. They can't have more than a couple small nukes at most, hardly enough to cripple all of Europe with EMP, much less the entire Western world.
Totalitarian governments are afraid of anything they can't control.
Gee, compares nicely with Obama's attitude towards Fox and the Internet doesn't it?
--
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
Exactly. Tyrants don't like dissent. Since Obama took over, all the people who 2 years ago were telling us that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" are singing a different tune.
The Iranian Mullachracy is one of the most evil, vile, and repressive regimes in history. It cannot survive much longer, as it is at odds with the vast majority of it's people, who are actually VERY pro-Western. I have friends who fled that place, and I pray for their families who are left behind.
It's very possible that tomorrow will be the final showdown between the opposition and the mad mullahs.
Gmail is just one of many means of communication they are shutting down. The reason mentioned in the article is just a flimsy excuse.
Tar and feathering of stupid judges.
This will almost certainly be overturned but this court had to force the waste of millions of dollars anyway.
Blame piracy? I blame greed. Piracy is being used as an EXCUSE for what will certainly be a massive data mining effort which Ubisoft will sell either themselves or to third parties.
The only people punished by draconian schemes like this are legitimate customers. The game will be cracked and the "feature" bypassed probably before it reaches retail, so the argument that this and other DRM schemes will stop piracy is moot.
Definitely won't be buying Ubisoft in the future.
Where I work (a large printing/office products company in the Eastern US) we have TWO dedicated IT personnel.
We have 800 employees, 600 of which we are directly responsible for supporting. That's it. One IT manager, one Systems Engineer (me).
What are most of you DOING? I work for a company with over 800 employees, approximately 600 or so who directly use computers, that has 16 locations in the Eastern USA and we make do with TWO.
The order impacts stuff completely out of his jurisdiction. Unfortunately, for the Judge, he's just issued an order that has National and International ramifications and at least one of the companies in question happens to be based in Scottsdale, Arizona (GoDaddy...).
HOW can a state judge issue such orders? This is actually quite outside of his jurisdiction as best as I can tell.
Clearly, the judge lacks the authority. He can act only with respect to the parties present or within his state at the most, not interstate, nor internationally.
The problem is that we quit saying "no you fucking can't!" to the judiciary at all levels, some decades ago, starting with the Congress copping out on desegregation and making the courts legislate it for them. Their power has only increased unchecked since.
The end result is that judges have become tyrannical, mostly unelected black robed "monarchs" sitting on thousands of thrones, with unchecked nearly absolute power.
Clearly what is going on in this case is fraud, and the state judge is acting (probably in his own interest) to conceal the fraud.
Unfortunately for the judge in this case, it is going to be one hell of a bursting of his bubble to discover the first rule of the Internet: That being that the Internet interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it automatically. Nothing makes something infamous on the internet faster than capricious attempts to censor, especially when authority is blatantly abused.
As for H1B visas, don't get me started. They shouldn't even EXIST unless our industry is at FULL employment, and should be canceled during a recession. H1B visas exist so that foreign workers can be exploited by American companies who do not wish to pay market prices for labor. And notice there are no H1B visas for CEO's and executives, when I am sure there are Indians who can do those jobs just as good as Americans.
ROFL, troll moderation. I guess we have a slashdot mod who can't tolerate any criticism of his/her religion of man made global warming, and it's prophet, Algore.
Mod parent up. This is political payback to the civil lawyer lobby who heavily fund Democrats. When they talk about "green jobs," they're obviously talking about cases for the trial lawyers to litigate.
You can also bet that "green" products won't have a statutory limit on liability claims from injured people anytime soon. Even if one of these products turns out to have health effects worse than asbestos.....
Of course. Look at the government takeover of healthcare that is being misnamed "reform". Everyone is expected to take a hit, doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, the citizens, etc, in the form of less payment, higher taxes, higher premiums, etc. The only group left out, are, you guessed it, the trial lawyers.
I think lawsuits over the mercury in CFL bulbs are going to be the "asbestos" lawsuit bonanza of the next 20 years. The democrats don't care enough about this to ban them, the 100 watt bulb must DIE to "save the planet" from (fradulent) man made global warming! They don't care because the trial lawyers are the single biggest contributor to democrat campaigns, more than even the unions.
Considering that the whole "green" movement, like a watermelon is green on the outside and RED on the inside, I think it will be good for the rest of us if it has to choke on silly patents.
Since the bureaucracy is pushing fast approval of "green" patents, expect the USPTO, in order to make quota, start rubberstamping applications of extremely obvious and silly patents, such as "method of conserving electricity by actuating switch" (ie: turn off the lights).
About the only people who benefit from "fast tracked" patents are patent troll companies and lawyers in Texas.
Of course, the only person who seems to have benefitted from the "green" movement is it's high priest, Algore himself, who has become filthy rich off the trading of fradulent "carbon offsets", rich enough to live in a mansion that uses 20 times the electricity of an average American, to own a fleet of SUV's and limos, and to fly only on private jets.
When the doomsayers start practicing in their own lives what they wish to impose on the rest of us, I might start taking them seriously.