Now that is a remarkably interesting idea. Sue SCO and as part of the counter-discovery, look through their source tree. Its been done before (using lawsuits to look at propietary data from a company).
Interesting point you make there. I pretty much put up the company outsourcing while still retaining original US-based pricing as a last-ditch attempt to bolster failing profits (ergo the old capitilist mantra of: "the companys first priority is to turn a profit, its second priority is to its shareholders")... One would wonder where the government's interest would be (given outsourcing also effects corporate tax revenue) and disgruntled, unemployed voters... its curious to think that the (expected, and necessary) deflation of the US dollar has not reared its ugly head in any significant manner (certainly not even with Greenspans slashing of interest rates to prevent deflation from becoming a serious problem)...
Because Americans are stupid. REALLY. They should pass a law that forces companies to account for their costs. Standardize margins or SOMETHING. this is really getting annoying.
Let me get this straight -- you are saying you have NEVER: * Taken a longer lunch break than allowed * Fudged your timecard to reflect 40 hours when you didn't work 40 * Surf the web on the company's dime * Used the company phone to dial long-distance * Called in sick on a day when you weren't really sick...????? ----
Perhaps if employees had a reasonable working schedule that took into account that there fundamentally, work is ONE facet of life, and not the end-all be-all, perhaps they wouldn't need to be doing non-work related things @ work. Given of course, identical salary and say 30 hours of work a week rather than 40 during business hours. US businesses seem to think the more hours you put in on the job, the more "productive" you are; the reality is the longer you force your employees to work, the larger the incentive for doing the things mentioned above while on the job. And if you can't see that, I would recommend pulling your head out of your ass. And, incidentally, whats up with salaried wages and the expectation that you have to put in more than 40 hours a week? I'ld be quite happy to account properly, if you would promise not to get upset (and roll back your deadlines) when I politely told you to fuck off and die when a mismanaged project requires OT sans OT pay. And maybe, just maybe, my OT time is worth more than 1.5 times pay. Ever think of that? If you are not happy with the status quo, I would suggest you look to finding out whats causing the problems..and fix them. I gaurantee, higher pay, hourly wages, with a gauranteed minimum # of hours, a negotiable OT pay, with a reasonable expectation of say 6 hours a day for 5 days a week or 8 hours a day for 4 days a week and a focus on rewarding efficient workers (note: not productive but working 60 hours on a job that should tyake 30 at most) would probably go a long way to make sure your employees didn't do the things you mentioned manage to peeve you off.
As per your request: ---- Longer Lunch: yuppers, done that. also taken extremely short (think soup in tin from across the street) or skipped lunch on many occassions.
Fudged your timecard:yup done that; always with permission from my managers since I regularly put in 50+ hours to save a sinking project from incompetent inhouse workers.
Surf the Web: yuppers:) depending on what I'm surfing, its either: a)training b)entertainment [the equivalent of a water-cooler break when you've been working for 2 hours straight coding a complex piece of code] c)keeping in touch with whats going on outside of work (which is generally a synchronous rather than asynchronous process).
Phone: yup, cell phones during the day time are expensive, as are payphones. Not everyone can afford making long-distance calls on them, and sometimes, something might come up that requires calling long distance. I would recommend a) negotiating a better plan b)putting a limit (rather than blocking) long distance calls, in terms of cost.
Sick: Yup, done that. Its a paid day off, and the week to 2-weeks is not enough time off work I'm afraid. What difference does it make if you are sick or not? Fix ur vacation days policy; most business now don't differentiate between the 2, *anyway*. You have x amounts of paid day off period. and if I feel the need to take a day off to keep from burning out, so long as my work is done, whats the problem?
Anyways, hope this helps in answering your questions, and like I said, focus on solving the problems. Fire the fuckups who abuse it (after suitable warning), and lighten up a scoche; realize your workers are probably not getting compensated (from their pov) enough for the expectations you have, and try to address the difference. And if you can't reach a compromise that works for both of you, terminate the relationship.
Look. Its simple. Beat them at their own game, and lock them out in the fucking cold. Target their companies with better, cheaper produced products. WORK with other true geeks (read: PRODUCERS) and fucking cap these motherfuckers.
Sir; no doubt I could run circles around you:) So, put your money where your mouth is:) Whats your the name of your company?
Incidentally, I would happen to agree with ur assessment of domain-specific knowledge seperating good engineers from crappy ones; I would however say, that we probably differ on the definition of what business-knowledge actually consists of. I've worked alongside some AMAZING engineers, and covered the ineptitude of a host of crappy ones. However, I have yet to meet a project/mid-level manager who had any serious grasp of what was required for day-to-day work; even those who have risen through the ranks. Particularly since the technologies chosen themselves influence the design patterns (from a code and system point of view), and change monthly.
On a personal note; AMERICAN businesses fucking suck. I DESPISE the way a majority of corporations are structured and run in the US. I hope, that in the construction of my new company, I will avoid the (many) mistakes I have encountered in US corporations. I should mention, having never worked for a foreign company, I can't really comment on how they're operations are run, past analytical business literature, except to say that there are several other countries which seem to have a much better focus on the producing rather than juggling. As far as I am concerned, there is something fundamentally broken with the US notions of capitalism (versus societal considerations) that need to be rectified by the workers (who are in effect, permitting the system to continue as is, for whatever reasons). Personally, I have no intention of taking it up the rear for middle or upper-management, and will work actively towards slagging as many shitheads as I can:)
I urge all of you PRODUCERS, of note and quality to START YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESSES. Target these fucked up companies, compete against them. USE your knowledge and remember, SLAG the incompetent workers, keep middle management to a minimum, and pay your workers something equitable in relation to your own salary (ALL WORKERS, not just the engineers:) ). I might also suggest that a further consideration would include NOT DOING BUSINESS with companies that employ gestapo-like tactics, have Unnecessarily short-term vision, fuck over their workers on a regular basis while wiping their managers asses.
In short, extend your own personal sense of integrity to improve the situation. And don't forget that even the most intelligent, motivated of us needs a break:) so find some people in your community who are under-utilized, hungry, and honorable and give them a job:)
Anyway, Luck to all of you good people:) Fuck the bastards:) And regarding the out-sourcing sir, I can understand the need (given current climes and capitalistic practices), but cannot excuse the short-sightedness/myopia. If you have any power in your company, I would recommend pointing out the simple fact that for every job you outsource as a way of boosting your short-term profits, you are in effect, removing a household of its ability to support you and your business partners. Think about that. It could be you next.
An upstart which took advantage of a medium which was revolutionary *BECAUSE* there were no patents.
The USPTO is a crock of horse-shit; it isn't about advancing science, its about screwing developing countries by keeping them out of the game via licensing fees.
Amazon.com is UTTER SCUM for attempting to ruin a perfectly good medium with bullshit patents.
And I don't really give a shit about the bs that if they didn't do it, someone else would, or competition or any of that crap that business majors shove down ur throat trying to justify patenting the concept of a patent.
>My own fantasy of a personal submarine comes from the Nautilus in 20000 Leagues Under the Sea. The most important feature: a glassed in drawing room, furnished with overstuffed chairs and oriental rugs, from which I can survey the unfolding panorama of the sea as I smoke seaweed cigars and sup on lobster tails whilst I plot my revenge on humanity.
------
Yea BABY!!!! WOOOHOOOO:)
I never saw/read 20 thousand leagues under the sea, but man, captain Nemo had it right:) Hilarious description btw:) very on-target:)
I think ur missing the point of the article; geeks do not feel the need to change their interests to suit others, and to being social, geeks *are social*; just with other geeks.
Anyway, the impetus to become a bully is simple:)
motive: anyone different opportunity: anyone who doesn't stick up for themselves with a 2x4.
Sadly, a lot of said people are geeks (by virtue of the fact they don't socialize with others in their class, and of course, opportunity [read: the bullies can]).
Having said that, I don't think they are to blame (as you do). I think the people who are truely guilty are the bullies themselves... And their behavior has nothing to do with ur 3 rules to a popularity or whatever u were attempting to commmunicate as a good way to keep from getting ur ass kicked:)
Truman said it best, talk softly and carry a big stick.
You know I didn't start thinking I was smarter than people until I was working in the business world *after* college?
Up until that point I was mystified as to why these people couldn't understand basic points.
Not that I cared mind you; my (mental/ emotional) welfare has never been directly tied to any particular individual. These people were pretty much non-existent to me, persona non gratas (or in the case of my reading habit acquired during 6th grade, obstacles to be avoided in the hallways [similar to walls ] as I walked from class to class, my nose in whatever book was the fare for that day)
Contempt (which is ur point) *requires attention*, something my classmates rarely ever warrented based on their actions.
Personally, I am a *very* open person:) Just don't waste my time, bring *something* in trade.
Course somewhere along the line someone foisted the term arrogant on me (which it took me forever to figure out why I was being labelled as such), but I think a more accurate label would be self-absorbed in the sense I was constantly chasing an idea or a project...
Anyways, in the end its a take-it-or-leave-it proposition:) I chose (according to my utility tables), to leave it.
I definately agree with ur point in general; People are not born knowing everything, and they generally learn by doing, studies, or association.
I am generally regarded by others around me as extremely intelligent; they perceive the level of mastery as above them, and I perceive it as within their grasp if they tried (the classic dichotomy which is probably the #1 leading cause of geek-2-nongeek interactions)...
To a certain extent, I am willing to entertain a novices question, but past a certain point, they are reaching too far beyond their grasp of the material to understand my response. I freely acknowledge there is a large # of subjects I am not freely versed in, and thus, do not bother experts with stupid questions when the answer can be consumed from other sources within my current grasp of the material.
*** WHY CANT THEY (do the same )? ***
Which is of course, my rebuttal to your lovely point:) RTFM is there for a reason my friend. I have *no problem* helping those who can understand the answers I give, I do have a problem with those who waste my time.
And of course, I SEE NO REASON to change my existing policy, in that I am completely satisfied both with my attempts to garner higher understandings of subject of which my grasp is limited, and of course, the *wonderful* lack of a stream of stupid questions being directed my way by habitual abusers.
or as my grandmother used to say:
tough titty to the kitty said the cat to the mouse
> This carries over into adult life as well, which is why geeks don't go to clubs
Bullshit:) I don't go to clubs because clubs suck; overpriced alcohol, cheezy (ghetto) women and of course, the complete inability to have a decent conversation over the 16" subwoofer pounding next to your ear:)
Really, you're not missing out on anything - clubs are heavily over-rated.
anyway, re: ur comment about certifying status of women; I would agree to the extent that most (ignorant) men depend on a woman's opinion of another man to judge him a man. Coming from a society that is heavily run this way, I can tell you completely it is a crock of shit; my only judge on whether or not a man's a man is by how he conducts himself, certified either by observation or other (trusted/authenticated) men.
Put another way, women are famous for their ability to overlook obvious severe character flaws in men, and ergo, cannot be trusted as a judge of character regarding men. Certes, I certainly would never trust a man to do whats right if he continiously (in the face of obviously correct behavior) kowtows to the wishes of the women in his life. I prefer men who have the integrity to tell a woman off when she is wrong, rather than suck up to her for a bit of pussy.
The reverse is also true; I prefer women who are confident enough to speak their mind regardless of what others think. Those are the women that are worth their weight in gold....
Guess what, you're *not* going to find them hanging out in any clubs.
So my luckless friend, I say to you this:
Decide what you want in a woman, then go where they congregate:) And of course, be urself.
Given enough thoroughput, you're bound to be successful (if nothing else, statistically speaking:P )
try going through middle school in a blue collar town through the Libyan missile chrisis with the name Omar:)
(you know, like M'omar, but the kids are too stupid to know the difference)....
Aaaah yes, good times:) Thankfully I gave as good as I got, and eventually, they found easier prey:) The key difference was fighting back:) I like someone's elses distinction along similar lines; there are geeks who take it, and geeks who dont:)
I would suggest to any of the former (still?), come on man, join the latter:)
Popularity and writing software are not mutually exclusive; and geeks/nerds are quite as capable of snagging chicks as anyone else, if by nothing else the virtue of the old adage;
easy on the eyes, or handy with the hands.
Anyways, what you should realize is that being popular (in a geeks eyes), essentially requires being shallow (something we are not), and choosing style over substance (functionality); having dated several chicks who were fatally flawed because of their beauty, (even past my engineering background, I chose that as an example that you could relate to) I can for one attest that choosing style over functionality is a loser choice in the long run.
In any event, I have enough deep friendships for me to be happy; enough acquaintances to network successfully, and as such don't really require the conversion you are preaching.
I think, personally, the distinction you are trying to draw is the difference between being reclusive, and accessible; In that case, most geeks are not accessible by choice because we make a conscious decision to increase the quality of the relationships at the cost of quantity; and while we may appear inaccessible to "normal" people, we are by definition not; insofar as that we require a *mutually* sustaining relationship; something that ignorant people cannot give us.
And if you see us at parties, hanging off the side and not engaging; its not because we are shy or socially inept; it is because there is nothing of note being said. The evidence of masters of their craft excluding apprentices in their shop-talk should provide a clear-cut example of said behavior.
And yes, I said it, *masters* of their craft(s), because geeks in general spend a lot more time pursueing their interests than coming up with yet another stupid come on or small talk. Its just not that interesting to us.
Perhaps "socially competent" people who are "popular" should spend some more time examining their lives, rather than engaging in social wanking. Then perhaps we would have something to comment on:)
When I was in middle school, I waited for high school...
When I was in high school, I waited for college...
When I was in college, I took graduate level courses with graduate-level students...
Having met the next-level students, Now I ain't waiting any more:)
The US Education system blows. I learned more out of school (through reading and a judicious use of thinking) than I ever will from pussy-ass school system:)
Interesting people abound; just adjust ur marketing filter to screen out all the trafe, and of course, make sure you have enough thoroughput people:) its *ALL* about the marketing screen and the thoroughput:)
>But being popular only makes you hated, >I judge intelligence not just by how well you do on tests in school, but how you live your life. If you are getting into trouble
--- aaah, so you were popular, @ the cost of being hated; and these unpopular nerds (who are stupid by ur comparison of not handling popularity properly) are the ones who are stupid?
Did you read what u wrote man? You just stated that popularity sucks; then blame the unpopular nerds for not aspiring to your state:p
now you tell me, who's stupid:) who *really* made the right choices in living their life well.
BTW - as an fyi:) we're not socially inept; we just don't give a shit for your conception of having "arrived". If I want something, I get it; having never desired to be popular (given the state it entails), I am content with my true-blue have-something-to-say friends:)
oh the fucking horror! I should convert immediately to ur clearly superior viewpoint.
yes, but he's simply stating fact:) anyway, what you call elitism, I would call standards; the difference you see, is simply that those with standards are willing to let anyone who meets those standards in. Elitism on the other hand, tends to preclude anyone from entering based on unchangeable characteristics:)
put another way, I never met a geek/nerd whatever that upon meeting someone else with (applied) intelligence, didn't strike it off immediately. versus the normal people of course, who discriminate socially on everything from looks, birth to sexual orientation and beyond.
anyway:) most nerds/geeks don't really give a shit about this in the great scheme of life... we eventually find others of substance and ignore the man-apes from that point on:)
It's funny -- most of the replies in this topic basically prove what the article said -- that IT people have poor people skills and can't understand that different people think and work in different ways
Most of the replies are people pissing and
moaning that users are stupid.
---
but they are stupid! Thats the point:)
sorry man, but you're rant is that end
users have to use the computer effectively,
but cant learn it, and require the assistance
of geeks to understand it; and the fault lies
within the geek being "analytical" (of the f*cking horror); have you considered perhaps;
that certain percentage of those geeks were originally end-users? and having the seen the stupidity of expecting someone else to keep you up to speed on the changes in the computer hardware, much less the software, have decided the only approach was to master the way of thinking that led to computer nirvana?
Be serious. If its *that* important for your job, then spend the effort to understand your computing platform. Even better, try to figure out ways to unlock ur computer's power..
Today the beneficial country may be India and Singapore, but as wages there begin to climb, those same companies will pack up and move elsewhere to start the whole process anew. There is no ethics in that, and there is no sense of responsibility in global corporations who continue in such endeavors.
When will they get around to coming back here I wonder?
Slashdot Mirror
>"I am Tier, master of the Bronx."
I think I met you back at a Larp convention in '62....
and,
Russian gang members don't have names like Tier.
"Maxilimillian, master of the Bronx" would prolly be more accurate.
omard-out
Now that is a remarkably interesting idea.
:) Mod me up :)
Sue SCO and as part of the counter-discovery,
look through their source tree. Its been done before (using lawsuits to look at propietary data from a company).
That might work
MOD this man up for christ-sake :)
:) :)
Oh that would be too-sweet
I'ld sign a petition for that.
In a heart beat
Fox News ;)
Interesting point you make there.
:)
I pretty much put up the company outsourcing while still retaining original US-based pricing as a last-ditch attempt to bolster failing profits (ergo the old capitilist mantra of: "the companys first priority is to turn a profit, its second priority is to its shareholders")... One would wonder where the government's interest would be (given outsourcing also effects corporate tax revenue) and disgruntled, unemployed voters... its curious to think that the (expected, and necessary) deflation of the US dollar has not reared its ugly head in any significant manner (certainly not even
with Greenspans slashing of interest rates to prevent deflation from becoming a serious problem)...
Thanks for the thought
Because Americans are stupid.
REALLY.
They should pass a law that forces companies to account for their costs. Standardize margins or SOMETHING. this is really getting annoying.
Let me get this straight -- you are saying you have NEVER:
:) depending on what I'm surfing, its either: a)training b)entertainment [the equivalent of a water-cooler break when you've been working for 2 hours straight coding a complex piece of code] c)keeping in touch with whats going on outside of work (which is generally a synchronous rather than asynchronous process).
* Taken a longer lunch break than allowed
* Fudged your timecard to reflect 40 hours when you didn't work 40
* Surf the web on the company's dime
* Used the company phone to dial long-distance
* Called in sick on a day when you weren't really sick...?????
----
Perhaps if employees had a reasonable working schedule that took into account that there fundamentally, work is ONE facet of life, and not the end-all be-all, perhaps they wouldn't need to be doing non-work related things @ work.
Given of course, identical salary and say 30 hours of work a week rather than 40 during business hours. US businesses seem to think the more hours you put in on the job, the more "productive" you are; the reality is the longer you force your employees to work, the larger the incentive for doing the things mentioned above while on the job. And if you can't see that, I would recommend pulling your head out of your ass. And, incidentally, whats up with salaried wages and the expectation that you have to put in more than 40 hours a week?
I'ld be quite happy to account properly, if you would promise not to get upset (and roll back your deadlines) when I politely told you to fuck off and die when a mismanaged project requires OT sans OT pay. And maybe, just maybe, my OT time is worth more than 1.5 times pay. Ever think of that? If you are not happy with the status quo, I would suggest you look to finding out whats causing the problems..and fix them. I gaurantee, higher pay, hourly wages, with a gauranteed minimum # of hours, a negotiable OT pay, with a reasonable expectation of say 6 hours a day for 5 days a week or 8 hours a day for 4 days a week and a focus on rewarding efficient workers (note: not productive but working 60 hours on a job that should tyake 30 at most) would probably go a long way to make sure your employees didn't do the things you mentioned manage to peeve you off.
As per your request:
----
Longer Lunch: yuppers, done that. also taken extremely short (think soup in tin from across the street) or skipped lunch on many occassions.
Fudged your timecard:yup done that; always with permission from my managers since I regularly put in 50+ hours to save a sinking project from incompetent inhouse workers.
Surf the Web: yuppers
Phone: yup, cell phones during the day time are expensive, as are payphones. Not everyone can afford making long-distance calls on them, and sometimes, something might come up that requires calling long distance. I would recommend a) negotiating a better plan b)putting a limit (rather than blocking) long distance calls, in terms of cost.
Sick: Yup, done that. Its a paid day off, and the week to 2-weeks is not enough time off work I'm afraid. What difference does it make if you are sick or not? Fix ur vacation days policy; most business now don't differentiate between the 2, *anyway*. You have x amounts of paid day off period. and if I feel the need to take a day off to keep from burning out, so long as my work is done, whats the problem?
Anyways, hope this helps in answering your questions, and like I said, focus on solving the problems. Fire the fuckups who abuse it (after suitable warning), and lighten up a scoche; realize your workers are probably not getting compensated (from their pov) enough for the expectations you have, and try to address the difference. And if you can't reach a compromise that works for both of you, terminate the relationship.
Omar
Look. Its simple.
:) :) Whats your the name of your company?
:)
:) ). I might also suggest that a further consideration would include NOT DOING BUSINESS with companies that employ gestapo-like tactics, have Unnecessarily short-term vision, fuck over their workers on a regular basis while wiping their managers asses.
:) so find some people in your community who are under-utilized, hungry, and honorable and give them a job :)
:) Fuck the bastards :) And regarding the out-sourcing sir, I can understand the need (given current climes and capitalistic practices), but cannot excuse the short-sightedness/myopia. If you have any power in your company, I would recommend pointing out the simple fact that for every job you outsource as a way of boosting your short-term profits, you are in effect, removing a household of its ability to support you and your business partners. Think about that. It could be you next.
Beat them at their own game, and lock them out in the fucking cold. Target their companies with better, cheaper produced products. WORK with other true geeks (read: PRODUCERS) and fucking cap these motherfuckers.
Sir; no doubt I could run circles around you
So, put your money where your mouth is
Incidentally, I would happen to agree with ur assessment of domain-specific knowledge seperating good engineers from crappy ones; I would however say, that we probably differ on the definition of what business-knowledge actually consists of. I've worked alongside some AMAZING engineers, and covered the ineptitude of a host of crappy ones. However, I have yet to meet a project/mid-level manager who had any serious grasp of what was required for day-to-day work; even those who have risen through the ranks. Particularly since the technologies chosen themselves influence the design patterns (from a code and system point of view), and change monthly.
On a personal note; AMERICAN businesses fucking suck. I DESPISE the way a majority of corporations are structured and run in the US.
I hope, that in the construction of my new company, I will avoid the (many) mistakes I have encountered in US corporations. I should mention, having never worked for a foreign company, I can't really comment on how they're operations are run, past analytical business literature, except to say that there are several other countries which seem to have a much better focus on the producing rather than juggling. As far as I am concerned, there is something fundamentally broken with the US notions of capitalism (versus societal considerations) that need to be rectified by the workers (who are in effect, permitting the system to continue as is, for whatever reasons). Personally, I have no intention of taking it up the rear for middle or upper-management, and will work actively towards slagging as many shitheads as I can
I urge all of you PRODUCERS, of note and quality to START YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESSES. Target these fucked up companies, compete against them. USE your knowledge and remember, SLAG the incompetent workers, keep middle management to a minimum, and pay your workers something equitable in relation to your own salary (ALL WORKERS, not just the engineers
In short, extend your own personal sense of integrity to improve the situation. And don't forget that even the most intelligent, motivated of us needs a break
Anyway, Luck to all of you good people
Sincerely,
Omar Desoky
People, read it again :) :)
It was a ringing endorsment
Me too man.
I love computers; I'm damn good at anything (- embedded) to do with computers. and I can't get
a job working with them. and it sucks.
on the plus side, 2 of my friends have recently gotten jobs (which is a plus sign).
An upstart which took advantage of a medium which was revolutionary *BECAUSE* there were
no patents.
The USPTO is a crock of horse-shit; it isn't
about advancing science, its about screwing
developing countries by keeping them out of
the game via licensing fees.
Amazon.com is UTTER SCUM for attempting to ruin
a perfectly good medium with bullshit patents.
And I don't really give a shit about the bs that if they didn't do it, someone else would, or competition or any of that crap that business
majors shove down ur throat trying to justify patenting the concept of a patent.
USPTO = Amazon = scum.
>I never saw/read 20 thousand leagues under the sea ... until recently; :)
--
damn, I should have used the preview button
HAHAHAHAHHAHAA
>My own fantasy of a personal submarine comes from the Nautilus in 20000 Leagues Under the Sea. The most important feature: a glassed in drawing room, furnished with overstuffed chairs and oriental rugs, from which I can survey the unfolding panorama of the sea as I smoke seaweed cigars and sup on lobster tails whilst I plot my revenge on humanity.
:)
:) Hilarious description btw :) very on-target :)
:)
------
Yea BABY!!!! WOOOHOOOO
I never saw/read 20 thousand leagues under the sea, but man, captain Nemo had it right
Anyway
Perhaps, but perhaps not :)
:)
:)
I think ur missing the point of the article;
geeks do not feel the need to change their interests to suit others, and to being social,
geeks *are social*; just with other geeks.
Anyway, the impetus to become a bully is simple
motive: anyone different
opportunity: anyone who doesn't stick up for themselves with a 2x4.
Sadly, a lot of said people are geeks (by virtue of the fact they don't socialize with others in their class, and of course, opportunity [read: the bullies can]).
Having said that, I don't think they are to blame (as you do). I think the people who are truely guilty are the bullies themselves...
And their behavior has nothing to do with ur 3 rules to a popularity or whatever u were attempting to commmunicate as a good way to keep from getting ur ass kicked
Truman said it best, talk softly and carry a big stick.
You know I didn't start thinking I was smarter than people until I was working in the business world *after* college?
:) Just don't waste my time, bring *something* in trade.
:) I chose (according to my utility tables), to leave it.
:)
Up until that point I was mystified as to why these people couldn't understand basic points.
Not that I cared mind you; my (mental/ emotional) welfare has never been directly tied to any particular individual. These people were pretty much non-existent to me, persona non gratas (or in the case of my reading habit acquired during 6th grade, obstacles to be avoided in the hallways [similar to walls ] as I walked from class to class, my nose in whatever book was the fare for that day)
Contempt (which is ur point) *requires attention*, something my classmates rarely ever warrented based on their actions.
Personally, I am a *very* open person
Course somewhere along the line someone foisted the term arrogant on me (which it took me forever to figure out why I was being labelled as such), but I think a more accurate label would be self-absorbed in the sense I was constantly chasing an idea or a project...
Anyways, in the end its a take-it-or-leave-it proposition
Haven't looked back ever since.
and when its 6 or N levels beyond theirs?
:) RTFM is there for a reason my friend.
I definately agree with ur point in general;
People are not born knowing everything, and they generally learn by doing, studies, or association.
I am generally regarded by others around me as extremely intelligent; they perceive the level of mastery as above them, and I perceive it as within their grasp if they tried (the classic dichotomy which is probably the #1 leading cause of geek-2-nongeek interactions)...
To a certain extent, I am willing to entertain a novices question, but past a certain point, they are reaching too far beyond their grasp of the material to understand my response. I freely acknowledge there is a large # of subjects I am not freely versed in, and thus, do not bother experts with stupid questions when the answer can be consumed from other sources within my current grasp of the material.
*** WHY CANT THEY (do the same )? ***
Which is of course, my rebuttal to your lovely point
I have *no problem* helping those who can understand the answers I give, I do have a problem with those who waste my time.
And of course, I SEE NO REASON to change my existing policy, in that I am completely satisfied both with my attempts to garner higher understandings of subject of which my grasp is limited, and of course, the *wonderful* lack of a stream of stupid questions being directed my way by habitual abusers.
or as my grandmother used to say:
tough titty to the kitty
said the cat to the mouse
> This carries over into adult life as well, which is why geeks don't go to clubs
:) I don't go to clubs because clubs suck; overpriced alcohol, cheezy (ghetto) women and of course, the complete inability to have a decent conversation over the 16" subwoofer pounding next to your ear :)
:) And of course, be urself.
:P )
Bullshit
Really, you're not missing out on anything - clubs are heavily over-rated.
anyway, re: ur comment about certifying status of women; I would agree to the extent that most (ignorant) men depend on a woman's opinion of another man to judge him a man. Coming from a society that is heavily run this way, I can tell you completely it is a crock of shit; my only judge on whether or not a man's a man is by how he conducts himself, certified either by observation or other (trusted/authenticated) men.
Put another way, women are famous for their ability to overlook obvious severe character flaws in men, and ergo, cannot be trusted as
a judge of character regarding men. Certes, I certainly would never trust a man to do whats right if he continiously (in the face of obviously correct behavior) kowtows to the wishes of the women in his life. I prefer men who have the integrity to tell a woman off when she is wrong, rather than suck up to her for a bit of pussy.
The reverse is also true; I prefer women who are confident enough to speak their mind regardless of what others think. Those are the women that are worth their weight in gold....
Guess what, you're *not* going to find them hanging out in any clubs.
So my luckless friend, I say to you this:
Decide what you want in a woman, then go where they congregate
Given enough thoroughput, you're bound to be successful (if nothing else, statistically speaking
....but, i am smarter :P
:)
no really, ummm, people get stuffed into lockers because of newton's first law
HAHAHAHAHAA :)
:)
:) Thankfully I gave as good as I got, and eventually, they found easier prey :) The key difference was fighting back :) :)
:)
try going through middle school in a blue collar town through the Libyan missile chrisis with the name Omar
(you know, like M'omar, but the kids are too stupid to know the difference)....
Aaaah yes, good times
I like someone's elses distinction along similar lines; there are geeks who take it, and geeks who dont
I would suggest to any of the former (still?), come on man, join the latter
Popularity and writing software are not mutually exclusive; and geeks/nerds are quite as capable of snagging chicks as anyone else, if by nothing else the virtue of the old adage;
:)
easy on the eyes, or handy with the hands.
Anyways, what you should realize is that being popular (in a geeks eyes), essentially requires being shallow (something we are not), and choosing style over substance (functionality); having dated several chicks who were fatally flawed because of their beauty, (even past my engineering background, I chose that as an example that you could relate to) I can for one attest that choosing style over functionality is a loser choice in the long run.
In any event, I have enough deep friendships for me to be happy; enough acquaintances to network successfully, and as such don't really require the conversion you are preaching.
I think, personally, the distinction you are trying to draw is the difference between being reclusive, and accessible; In that case, most geeks are not accessible by choice because we make a conscious decision to increase the quality of the relationships at the cost of quantity; and while we may appear inaccessible to "normal" people, we are by definition not; insofar as that we require a *mutually* sustaining relationship; something that ignorant people cannot give us.
And if you see us at parties, hanging off the side and not engaging; its not because we are shy or socially inept; it is because there is nothing of note being said. The evidence of masters of their craft excluding apprentices in their shop-talk should provide a clear-cut example of said behavior.
And yes, I said it, *masters* of their craft(s), because geeks in general spend a lot more time pursueing their interests than coming up with yet another stupid come on or small talk. Its just not that interesting to us.
Perhaps "socially competent" people who are "popular" should spend some more time examining their lives, rather than engaging in social wanking. Then perhaps we would have something to comment on
When I was in middle school,
:)
:)
:) :)
I waited for high school...
When I was in high school,
I waited for college...
When I was in college,
I took graduate level courses with graduate-level students...
Having met the next-level students,
Now I ain't waiting any more
The US Education system blows.
I learned more out of school
(through reading and a judicious
use of thinking) than I ever will
from pussy-ass school system
Interesting people abound;
just adjust ur marketing filter
to screen out all the trafe,
and of course, make sure you have
enough thoroughput people
its *ALL* about the marketing
screen and the thoroughput
>But being popular only makes you hated,
:p
:) who *really* made the right choices in living their life well.
:) we're not socially inept; we just don't give a shit for your conception of having "arrived". If I want something, I get it; having never desired to be popular (given the state it entails), I am content with :)
>I judge intelligence not just by how well you do on tests in school, but how you live your life. If you are getting into trouble
---
aaah, so you were popular, @ the cost of being hated; and these unpopular nerds (who are
stupid by ur comparison of not handling popularity properly) are the ones who are stupid?
Did you read what u wrote man? You just stated that popularity sucks; then blame the unpopular nerds for not aspiring to your state
now you tell me, who's stupid
BTW - as an fyi
my true-blue have-something-to-say friends
oh the fucking horror!
I should convert immediately to ur clearly superior viewpoint.
yes, but he's simply stating fact :) anyway, what you call elitism, I would call standards; the difference you see, is simply that those with standards are willing to let anyone who meets those standards in. Elitism on the other hand, tends to preclude anyone from entering based on unchangeable characteristics :)
:) most nerds/geeks don't really give a shit about this in the great scheme of life... we eventually find others of substance and ignore the man-apes from that point on :)
:)
put another way, I never met a geek/nerd whatever that upon meeting someone else with (applied) intelligence, didn't strike it off immediately. versus the normal people of course, who discriminate socially on everything from looks, birth to sexual orientation and beyond.
anyway
Paul
Definately laughing his ass off
It's funny -- most of the replies in this topic basically prove what the article said -- that IT people have poor people skills and can't understand that different people think and work in different ways Most of the replies are people pissing and moaning that users are stupid. --- but they are stupid! Thats the point :)
sorry man, but you're rant is that end
users have to use the computer effectively,
but cant learn it, and require the assistance
of geeks to understand it; and the fault lies
within the geek being "analytical" (of the f*cking horror); have you considered perhaps;
that certain percentage of those geeks were originally end-users? and having the seen the stupidity of expecting someone else to keep you up to speed on the changes in the computer hardware, much less the software, have decided the only approach was to master the way of thinking that led to computer nirvana?
Be serious. If its *that* important for your job, then spend the effort to understand your computing platform. Even better, try to figure out ways to unlock ur computer's power..
When will they get around to coming back here I wonder?