Yes, this is/.
Yes, hardly anyone here likes MS and people here love to bash MS whenever they can.
That's fine with me. But almost all software has bugs, and in particular bugs that could be exploited to breach the security of the program. Just because MS has a bug in the RPC code doesn't mean that no one should use their software, or in particular the federal gov't should not.
If this same criterion were required of any software the gov't bought, they would have NO software. Linux is not bug free. Software written for Linux is not bug free. The main difference is, Windows is a much bigger target of attack by every hacker and "security group" in the world because it is the most popular operating system in the world. How would any Linux distribution fare if it and its components were used as widely as Windows, and people spent hours every day _trying_ to pass garbage strings of data to all of its external functions in order to find a buffer overrun? I bet it wouldn't do so hot either, and even if it didn't, that doesn't mean that no one should by that Linux distribution, does it?
PROGRAMS HAVE BUGS. And the more complex the programs, the more they interact with other components, often in ways the original programmers never thought of _or intended_, the more likely bugs will be found. My opinion is, taking cheap shots at MS is easy, but writing good code yourself is hard. We're all human beings here, and the developers who work on Linux and open source programs are no smarter than most who work at MS. People make mistakes. Sometimes people don't think about every possible bogus string parameter someone could pass in just to screw up their program. Most of the time the bugs I find in my and other's code is from components trying to _correctly_ use our code!
Flamebait, troll, whatever. Just because you don't like MS for all the/. reasons doesn't justify what you say.
Peace,
Devin
Re:Like it or not, managers default to commercial
on
What is Open Source?
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
My experience at the company I work for has verified what your friend's Swedish company does. Big companies are going to be unresponsive to bug reports and feature requests because big companies by nature move slowly, are ponderous, and not as nimble as smaller ones. The same, interestingly, is also true of groups within companies.
The only reason big companies will be responsive to requests is if the company doing the requesting is also big (i.e. a very important client). This makes perfect business sense: It is much more important to make sure a client that spends $10 million on your products each year is happy versus a researcher at a university that spends $1 thousand.
Your other point about companies fixing bugs in OSS since they have access to the code is also right on. It is not always easy to fix bugs in code, especially if the code is non-trivial in size or complexity. It takes time to learn the code well-enough to solve bugs in it, unless they are glaringly obvious. So the time that may be saved by reusing open source code must be weighed against the time it takes to learn that code if a company intends to make fixes to it.
Finally, I think most companies do not understand open source licenses, and because of this ignorance, they are afraid that by using open source code they will have to give away all their proprietary code. The threat of this alone is enough to make any company afraid.
At the company I work at, open source proponents would need to convince the high ups at the company (CEO, CIO, etc.) about the safety and utility of open source, and once those guys made a decision to use it, they would make it a possibility for group managers and individual developers to explore open source solutions to use in their projects.
I read the NYT article about Rick Stenlund (the Deacon) when it was published only because/. had a link to the story on it. I am a computer programmer and a recreational gamer (mostly Starcraft and Civilization type games), and I have always been interested in MMORPG's since Ultima Online came out. So I was very interested in seeing an article in a paper as big as the NYT about a person who has a character in one of these games.
After reading the article, I felt somewhat depressed about Rick's life _because that is how the article portrayed him_. I think anyone reading that article would feel the same way: "This guy is kind of weird, down-and-out to some degree, without much hope for the future", which then led to the thought, "This is the kind of person who plays these MMORPG'S."
Then I just read (again, because/. posted a story), Rick's reply to this article, as well as his fellow Anarchy Online gamers in that game's forum. After reading his reply and defense of himself, I feel sincere sympathy for him. Basically, Rick says this article's writer at best misrepresented him, and at worst, outright lied about things that he said. I believe Rick when he says these things.
And I was taken aback when I saw the top-modded posts on/. slamming this man without any kindness at all. Many of the posts said, in effect, "Rick could be lying as easily as the NYT article writer, and it's his fault anyway, even if the srticle writer did lie." I disagree with this rationale, and here's why: Do you think someone would submit to an interview like Rick did if he knew that he would be portrayed as a hopeless, pathetic loser with weird and even offensive behavior? I don't think so. Especially since Rick is now upset about this story. So I give Rick the benefit of the doubt when it comes to believing him or the writer of the article.
I am a Christian, whereas I think many (if not most) people who read/. are not. If you want to challenge this, just read people's sig lines or posts and be aware of the amount of anti-Christian and anti-religious content. That being said, I used to be an atheist, and I put up with the anti-Christian junk here because _I used to feel the exact same way_. I've changed now though, and so there you go. I have always been interested in technology (games, programming, gadgets, etc.) so I enjoy/. I give that disclaimer because I am going to say something sincerely religious (yes you read it right!) intended especially for Rick:
I believe in Jesus Christ, a man who was also falsely accused of many things, whose words were twisted around to condemn him, and who was killed on the basis of these lies. I also believe that he is God, and so God himself, knowing that he would be betrayed by someone who called himself his friend, much as you were by the article writer, willingly gave himself over to his betrayer so that the salvation of human beings could be made possible. Because of this, I believe that Jesus Christ himself is, in a special way, right beside all people who are wrongly condemned, who are misrepresented, and who are lied about. People called him the devil, they called him a demon, they tried to murder him, and eventually they did. He bore all of these insults and lies with love, for he knew that the people who did these things were doing wrong, and that doing wrong hurts the person who does it far worse than the person they hurt because they separate themselves from God by doing it.
Rick, I do not know if you are a Christian or not, and whether you are or not, I just want you to know that I have prayed for you and your family, that Christ will be with you, to comfort and console you, to help you through this difficult time where you feel defamed, and to restore you to peace of heart and mind. Ultimately, I pray he will give you the grace to forgive this man who did this to you, and all the people at the NYT who allowed it to happen. When Judas came to betray Jesus, Jesus looked into his eyes and said, "Friend, do what you came to do." He forgave his worst enemy, and in doing so followed his Father's desire, for in forgiving, we will be forgiven.
I respect what you are saying here and understand your reasons for not working on a go-playing program yourself, but I would challenge you with this: Even though you will probably not be the person to write the go ai program that is "near-human level", the person who does eventually write it (X number of years/decades in the future) will most definitely only be able to do it because he learned from people who came before him and attempted the endeavor. In short, it takes Newton to formulate the basic laws for physics and the calculus before Einstein can go further and discover relativity and quantum physics. And as Newton said, the only reason he could accomplish what he did was because he "stood on the shoulders of giants" that had come before him.
I am sure that this is not a new idea to you, but I present it again because I think it is very valid. We are at a very primitive state when it comes to computer ai, as anyone who has done any ai knows, both because of our lack of understanding of how our own intelligence/consciousness works, and because of our lack of good programming tools that allow us to work at a high abstraction of thought (i.e. most of the code we write is very tedious, and even though it is necesssary for our ai programs, it has little to do with actual ai). It is similar to knowing that you need a modern race-car when oil refineries, engines, and smelting have not even been invented yet. It is up to us to create those go-carts, pardon the pun, and start exploring how we might create a smelter, looking forward to the day when the infrastructure will be in place for others to continue the progress.
I know what you mean when you say that when you begin work on an ai problem like go, you are immediately trapped into things you have been taught, common procedures that you know others have used for similar types of problems, etc. However, this does not mean that you cannot be the one to think up the next innovation with respect to ai, taking the next step in creating a "rich mental landscape" that will lead to the integration you believe is essential to true ai.
I am quite positive that you are more knowledgeable about ai than me, since I have only dabbled in it here and there, but I hope you take my encouragement in the spirit I have intended to give it.
Typing that much could lead to Repetitve Strain Injury, something I developed after typing and playing computer games for hours a day over the course of about 7 years. In case you ever get pain in your arms, wrists, or fingers that doesn't go away, including numbness or tingling sensations, send me an email!
If you never get RSI, you got my blessing and I say keep on truckin'!
And these people really surprise me because all the other co-ops and interns had three things in common: 1) They loved NASA and the space program, 2) They were all very intelligent, and 3) They all very honest from all my dealings with them.
That was about 3 years ago, but still, to steal something from the people who have given you the privilege to work at a prestigious place and given you the opportunity for once-in-a-lifetime experience is baffling.
The reason they were probably able to steal the stuff is because co-ops are trusted so much there. It is almost unquestioned that the people who pass the screening process have a true desire to work at NASA and are of good moral character. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case, and now future co-ops and interns will probably not be given as many privileges and have access to as many areas as before.
It's a shame...
-- "It's always that rotten million that spoil it for the other 11."
If you are a country that doesn't respect human rights, as China has demonstrated for decades, and you have nuclear weapons to boot, would you be afraid of infringing on some patents or stealing some software?? Microsoft is a giant, but compared to China, they're a speck of dirt.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, this is /.
Yes, hardly anyone here likes MS and people here love to bash MS whenever they can.
That's fine with me. But almost all software has bugs, and in particular bugs that could be exploited to breach the security of the program. Just because MS has a bug in the RPC code doesn't mean that no one should use their software, or in particular the federal gov't should not.
If this same criterion were required of any software the gov't bought, they would have NO software. Linux is not bug free. Software written for Linux is not bug free. The main difference is, Windows is a much bigger target of attack by every hacker and "security group" in the world because it is the most popular operating system in the world. How would any Linux distribution fare if it and its components were used as widely as Windows, and people spent hours every day _trying_ to pass garbage strings of data to all of its external functions in order to find a buffer overrun? I bet it wouldn't do so hot either, and even if it didn't, that doesn't mean that no one should by that Linux distribution, does it?
PROGRAMS HAVE BUGS. And the more complex the programs, the more they interact with other components, often in ways the original programmers never thought of _or intended_, the more likely bugs will be found. My opinion is, taking cheap shots at MS is easy, but writing good code yourself is hard. We're all human beings here, and the developers who work on Linux and open source programs are no smarter than most who work at MS. People make mistakes. Sometimes people don't think about every possible bogus string parameter someone could pass in just to screw up their program. Most of the time the bugs I find in my and other's code is from components trying to _correctly_ use our code!
Flamebait, troll, whatever. Just because you don't like MS for all the /. reasons doesn't justify what you say.
Peace,
Devin
The only reason big companies will be responsive to requests is if the company doing the requesting is also big (i.e. a very important client). This makes perfect business sense: It is much more important to make sure a client that spends $10 million on your products each year is happy versus a researcher at a university that spends $1 thousand.
Your other point about companies fixing bugs in OSS since they have access to the code is also right on. It is not always easy to fix bugs in code, especially if the code is non-trivial in size or complexity. It takes time to learn the code well-enough to solve bugs in it, unless they are glaringly obvious. So the time that may be saved by reusing open source code must be weighed against the time it takes to learn that code if a company intends to make fixes to it.
Finally, I think most companies do not understand open source licenses, and because of this ignorance, they are afraid that by using open source code they will have to give away all their proprietary code. The threat of this alone is enough to make any company afraid.
At the company I work at, open source proponents would need to convince the high ups at the company (CEO, CIO, etc.) about the safety and utility of open source, and once those guys made a decision to use it, they would make it a possibility for group managers and individual developers to explore open source solutions to use in their projects.
Peaceful regards,
Devin
After reading the article, I felt somewhat depressed about Rick's life _because that is how the article portrayed him_. I think anyone reading that article would feel the same way: "This guy is kind of weird, down-and-out to some degree, without much hope for the future", which then led to the thought, "This is the kind of person who plays these MMORPG'S."
Then I just read (again, because /. posted a story), Rick's reply to this article, as well as his fellow Anarchy Online gamers in that game's forum. After reading his reply and defense of himself, I feel sincere sympathy for him. Basically, Rick says this article's writer at best misrepresented him, and at worst, outright lied about things that he said. I believe Rick when he says these things.
And I was taken aback when I saw the top-modded posts on /. slamming this man without any kindness at all. Many of the posts said, in effect, "Rick could be lying as easily as the NYT article writer, and it's his fault anyway, even if the srticle writer did lie." I disagree with this rationale, and here's why: Do you think someone would submit to an interview like Rick did if he knew that he would be portrayed as a hopeless, pathetic loser with weird and even offensive behavior? I don't think so. Especially since Rick is now upset about this story. So I give Rick the benefit of the doubt when it comes to believing him or the writer of the article.
I am a Christian, whereas I think many (if not most) people who read /. are not. If you want to challenge this, just read people's sig lines or posts and be aware of the amount of anti-Christian and anti-religious content. That being said, I used to be an atheist, and I put up with the anti-Christian junk here because _I used to feel the exact same way_. I've changed now though, and so there you go. I have always been interested in technology (games, programming, gadgets, etc.) so I enjoy /. I give that disclaimer because I am going to say something sincerely religious (yes you read it right!) intended especially for Rick:
I believe in Jesus Christ, a man who was also falsely accused of many things, whose words were twisted around to condemn him, and who was killed on the basis of these lies. I also believe that he is God, and so God himself, knowing that he would be betrayed by someone who called himself his friend, much as you were by the article writer, willingly gave himself over to his betrayer so that the salvation of human beings could be made possible. Because of this, I believe that Jesus Christ himself is, in a special way, right beside all people who are wrongly condemned, who are misrepresented, and who are lied about. People called him the devil, they called him a demon, they tried to murder him, and eventually they did. He bore all of these insults and lies with love, for he knew that the people who did these things were doing wrong, and that doing wrong hurts the person who does it far worse than the person they hurt because they separate themselves from God by doing it.
Rick, I do not know if you are a Christian or not, and whether you are or not, I just want you to know that I have prayed for you and your family, that Christ will be with you, to comfort and console you, to help you through this difficult time where you feel defamed, and to restore you to peace of heart and mind. Ultimately, I pray he will give you the grace to forgive this man who did this to you, and all the people at the NYT who allowed it to happen. When Judas came to betray Jesus, Jesus looked into his eyes and said, "Friend, do what you came to do." He forgave his worst enemy, and in doing so followed his Father's desire, for in forgiving, we will be forgiven.
Peace be with you,
Devin
Made me laugh, too!
Peace,
Devin
I respect what you are saying here and understand your reasons for not working on a go-playing program yourself, but I would challenge you with this: Even though you will probably not be the person to write the go ai program that is "near-human level", the person who does eventually write it (X number of years/decades in the future) will most definitely only be able to do it because he learned from people who came before him and attempted the endeavor. In short, it takes Newton to formulate the basic laws for physics and the calculus before Einstein can go further and discover relativity and quantum physics. And as Newton said, the only reason he could accomplish what he did was because he "stood on the shoulders of giants" that had come before him.
I am sure that this is not a new idea to you, but I present it again because I think it is very valid. We are at a very primitive state when it comes to computer ai, as anyone who has done any ai knows, both because of our lack of understanding of how our own intelligence/consciousness works, and because of our lack of good programming tools that allow us to work at a high abstraction of thought (i.e. most of the code we write is very tedious, and even though it is necesssary for our ai programs, it has little to do with actual ai). It is similar to knowing that you need a modern race-car when oil refineries, engines, and smelting have not even been invented yet. It is up to us to create those go-carts, pardon the pun, and start exploring how we might create a smelter, looking forward to the day when the infrastructure will be in place for others to continue the progress.
I know what you mean when you say that when you begin work on an ai problem like go, you are immediately trapped into things you have been taught, common procedures that you know others have used for similar types of problems, etc. However, this does not mean that you cannot be the one to think up the next innovation with respect to ai, taking the next step in creating a "rich mental landscape" that will lead to the integration you believe is essential to true ai.
I am quite positive that you are more knowledgeable about ai than me, since I have only dabbled in it here and there, but I hope you take my encouragement in the spirit I have intended to give it.
Peace to you,
Devin
If you never get RSI, you got my blessing and I say keep on truckin'!
Peace.
He grossed $30,000, but probably netted much less in profit, perhaps less than $17,000, so maybe he didn't make out so well.
1) They loved NASA and the space program,
2) They were all very intelligent, and
3) They all very honest from all my dealings with them.
That was about 3 years ago, but still, to steal something from the people who have given you the privilege to work at a prestigious place and given you the opportunity for once-in-a-lifetime experience is baffling.
The reason they were probably able to steal the stuff is because co-ops are trusted so much there. It is almost unquestioned that the people who pass the screening process have a true desire to work at NASA and are of good moral character. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case, and now future co-ops and interns will probably not be given as many privileges and have access to as many areas as before.
It's a shame...
--
"It's always that rotten million that spoil it for the other 11."
If you are a country that doesn't respect human rights, as China has demonstrated for decades, and you have nuclear weapons to boot, would you be afraid of infringing on some patents or stealing some software?? Microsoft is a giant, but compared to China, they're a speck of dirt.
If a Mac were running the car, at least the Volvo wouldn't be so boxy!