Well, I have to admit that I haven't played the third serie. But I did play every incarnation or almost of SF2 and between SF2, SF2 Championship, nothing change except the addition of 4 more characters. Then, the added the Turbo sufix which I think introduced the speed change option, then super street fight, which introduced more characters and some more special moves. I stopped after that. I think the alpha games were pretty different, but I never played them. But we are speaking here 4 different version of the same game where the only changes were basically more characters and a speed option. That's pretty much milking it. Unless I played the games so long ago that I don't remember other changes.
You're right. I forgot about those. Well, I've learned to ignore them, just like any other form of publicity on the web. I simply move my cursor to the right on the screen when browsing by keyboard.
Re:I don't think it's stupid to support 1080p...
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How the PS3 Hit $600
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· Score: 1
Going off topic, but how about some info about that good understanding of Xbox 360 costs and how you came upon those?:) Just curious. It always seemed to me that Microsoft must not be losing money on the Core version of the console.
You are totally right. I initially mistook the ATSC data for being an HDMI limitation, but you are right, and I already did a mea culpa after being called "a fucking liar". Anyway...
One thing that has to be considered tough is that from what I've read is that a lot of 1080p HDTVs right now with HDMI input actually don't support 60fps and only do 24fps or 30fps for some reason. (That's also why I assumed HDMI just didn't have enough bandwidth). So you'll end up with a PS3 that does 60fps, but the TV will somehow have to drop frames or blur them together, I don't know. How stupid is that?
Re:Wrong. 1080p handled by component cables.
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How the PS3 Hit $600
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· Score: 1
I'm glad to hear this about the component cables then.
As for 30 fps looking good, I think it depends. One of the reason why movies look great at 24fps is because of the fact that the shutter speed is not instant, compared to rendered frames in games. Sure, you can always fake motion blur and stuff like that on good video cards, but I've yet to see a game that actually looks great a 24fps.
Apparently, based on someone else's post, I am, and I quote, "a fucking liar". Nope. I was simply misinformed. Anyway, the "You don't have bandwidth for 1080@60p" statement I made was incorrect, as it is ony limited to broadcasting, which needs to fit in the 19Mbit/s bandwidth allotted in a 6Mhz channel as required by the ATSC standard. Of all HD resolutions, 720@60p and 1080@60i are the highest resolution you can get. So no need to point to me that I am wrong again, or to put it as the other guy said, that I am a fucking liar. I love it how people are so mature about those things.
Actually, I am not a liar, simply misinformed. I checked on the web later on and it seems to be like you are right. The cable does support the bandwidth requirement. I was mistaken with the ATSC standard.
The reason for that is that 1080p50 and 1080p60 would exceed the 19Mbit/s bandwidth allotted in a 6Mhz channel as required by the ATSC standard. The highest HDTV formats that don't exceed that limit (and in fact are very close to it) are 720p60, 1080p30 and 1080i60.
To sum things up regarding this topic, the ATSC only allows 1080p broadcasting at a maximum frame rate of 30 frames per second due to bandwidth requirements. 720p video can go up to 60 frames per second with the same bandwidth. 1080 line formats can only deliver a maximum of 60 fields per second (1080i60) or 30 frames per second (1080p30). Both 720 and 1080 line formats, as implemented in ATSC broadcasting, deliver practically the same amount of pixels per second.
So what does this means. It means that you are right, and you can indeed play video games in 1080p@60hz with an HDMI cable. It also means that I got confused between bandwidth allocation for broadcasting and HDMI cables. Mea culpa.
Thanks for being so mature about this and not calling me a fucking liar. People make mistakes you know.
From what I know, only HDMI/DVI are going to get you 1080p and bandwidth being limited you'll only get 30FPS on those cables. I don't know anyone who would find a 30fps game good looking nowaways, especially racing games. Better off with 1080i analog cables since they're cheaper. Have good shielding on them and you won't care that you don't have digital.
Except that HDMI or DVI don't have the bandwidth requirements to deliver 60fps of 1080P. So you're stuck at 30FPS. 1080P gaming is actually a BAD idea. Microsoft did well not to include it in their console. You're better off sticking with 720P@60FPS for now.
I don't get it why people are complaining about ads so much. These web sites cost money to run, you know? These people do this for a living. I find Internet ads to be a lot less intrusive than a couple of years ago. Ok so sometimes you get those crappy flash ads with sound or some that gets bigger when you roll over, but those are the minority, not the norm. I think that websites like IGN and Gamespot or some "real world" news site to actually have a pretty good way of displaying ads. Once in a while you click on a link and there's a full page ad which you can simply skip by pressing a text link over of the ad. And it's like this on most websites I visit. I took an extra click and an extra second to get there. It's like people who strip ads from thei messaging client. Just don't look at them. Anyway, MSN is minimized 99% of the time, so I couldn't care less about the ad that is there 1% of the time.
The only places where you can find ads to be real annoying is on torrent sites and such. Considering people go there to mostly download stuff they don't already own, I have little pity for those who complain. Why should I care that someone is bugging you with those ads? You are already in the process of ripping someone else off. And the saddest part is that those website owners make money off the stuff from other people.
Actually, there was a video interview on XBox Live Marketplace IIRC with the people who are making the new Shadorun game (I know I know, it's not Shadowrun but some perverted version of it), and they regularly have matches where it's console players versus PC players (Shadowrun will launch on Vista with Live Anywhere, the Live PC/Xbox/Mobile they are working on) and apparently the PC players were getting owned regularly by the console players. They had to tweak the game so that PC players had a chance.
So it will be interresting to see if that's really the case when the game comes out.
Well, a lot of people cited the size of the original Xbox as one of the factors why it wasn't popular in Japan (lack of Japanese also comes to mind obviously). That's what I was basing ym point on. If the Xbox was too big for Japanese, but PS3 should be too. So if the focus group was right, then it will be interresting to see how Japanese react to the size of the PS3 (or any other asians, based on your findings).
You know what, after seeing the PS3, I think this is one myth that will be debunked. The PS3 is bigger than the original Xbox and weights more!! It's a pity I can't find the original link where I read this, because this is an xbox fan site, so some might argue it's biased, but I've seen this on other websites which are more neutral like Gamespot or 1up.
FYI, I'm not sure where it was demoed, Sony's or the developer's, but that game is made by Ubisoft Montreal, not Bioware. But I'm pretty sure I read that the game was showed at Sony's booth and not Ubisoft, but then, you may be right that it WASN'T at Sony's booth. As for the rest...
Honnetly, even if it DID run on GameCube hardware, I couldn't have cared less. Since Wii is supposed to be slightly more powerfull than the GameCube, who cares.
On the other, the rumor that Sony was demoing Assassin's Creed on 360s, that's something to be offended of. Suppose the final hardware of the PS3 doesn't match the power of the 360, or some tricks can be done on it. That means that what people saw at the PS3 wasn't even representative of what they will experience when the game launches. That's dishonnest!
I totally agree with you. I was simply going along with his premise that the costs would be lower. I doubt making games for a machine a "wii" more powerful and with a whole new control scheme is going to cost less than a GameCube.
I don't know about others, but if I've budgeted 50$ a month for games, I'm not going to buy 4 of them at 25$. I'm only going to buy 2. But that's me.
I'm not a sales specialist, but I don't see how this way of thinking works. I know there are impulsive buys that might make me buy 3 a month instead of two, but still. I don't see this really working. Plus, if you sold your game for less and the game tanked, you're not really better off. Not much profits, so you tend to take less risks. Anyway, I am not a business man, so that's just my naive way of looking at it.
Why would an indsutry who has been selling games for 49$ for a while drop their price now that it costs them less to make them. They are in the business of making money, and if the games are still cheaper than the PS3/360, then there's no point dropping the prices for Wii games down from the GameCube prices. It's simply higher profit margins. And we all know how companies like profits. Which is fine by me, since more profits may mean that now that they have more money in the bank they will try new things that they wouldn't dare try before. Even more innovation.
On the contrary, I want the prices to STAY the same if the development costs are lower!
Eh... anyone who was being that stingy on price would also notice that 360 games cost $60 whereas Wii games will be $50 or lower It depends. I live in Canada and I bought games for my XBox when they were 69CAN$ (49US$), but since the american dollar dropped so much recently, I can get Xbox games for 59CAN$ now, and XBox 360 games have been at 69CAN$ since launch, simply because of the weaker american dollar. So people who didn't mind paying 69CAN$ for PS2/Xbox/GameCube games before, won't mind now either. As for the console, it is overpriced over here (400US$ is not 500CAN$ nowadays, more like 440CAN$), I think most people won't care about the price of games outside of the United States.
Depends. When I told my friend about the lack of HDMI on the PS3 at 500$, he said, "So what? I don't have an HDTV." That's the kind of person who is not going to bother with Blu-Ray either, since it is not going to give him better looking movies anyway, since he lacks an HDTV. I think that is going to be quite a few people, rendering the blu-ray drive pretty much useless.
Well, a friend of mine did alpha testing for the game and it was done on 360s, so either they decided to make it exclusive, or they haven't announced it yet.
Ever heard of OpenGL? If your don't have a card, the software driver will do the same thing, but slower. Same deal over here. I doubt it will be unoptimized anyway, developpers wouldn't put up with that.
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Well, I have to admit that I haven't played the third serie. But I did play every incarnation or almost of SF2 and between SF2, SF2 Championship, nothing change except the addition of 4 more characters. Then, the added the Turbo sufix which I think introduced the speed change option, then super street fight, which introduced more characters and some more special moves. I stopped after that. I think the alpha games were pretty different, but I never played them. But we are speaking here 4 different version of the same game where the only changes were basically more characters and a speed option. That's pretty much milking it. Unless I played the games so long ago that I don't remember other changes.
You're right. I forgot about those. Well, I've learned to ignore them, just like any other form of publicity on the web. I simply move my cursor to the right on the screen when browsing by keyboard.
Going off topic, but how about some info about that good understanding of Xbox 360 costs and how you came upon those? :) Just curious. It always seemed to me that Microsoft must not be losing money on the Core version of the console.
You are totally right. I initially mistook the ATSC data for being an HDMI limitation, but you are right, and I already did a mea culpa after being called "a fucking liar". Anyway...
One thing that has to be considered tough is that from what I've read is that a lot of 1080p HDTVs right now with HDMI input actually don't support 60fps and only do 24fps or 30fps for some reason. (That's also why I assumed HDMI just didn't have enough bandwidth). So you'll end up with a PS3 that does 60fps, but the TV will somehow have to drop frames or blur them together, I don't know. How stupid is that?
I'm glad to hear this about the component cables then.
As for 30 fps looking good, I think it depends. One of the reason why movies look great at 24fps is because of the fact that the shutter speed is not instant, compared to rendered frames in games. Sure, you can always fake motion blur and stuff like that on good video cards, but I've yet to see a game that actually looks great a 24fps.
Apparently, based on someone else's post, I am, and I quote, "a fucking liar". Nope. I was simply misinformed. Anyway, the "You don't have bandwidth for 1080@60p" statement I made was incorrect, as it is ony limited to broadcasting, which needs to fit in the 19Mbit/s bandwidth allotted in a 6Mhz channel as required by the ATSC standard. Of all HD resolutions, 720@60p and 1080@60i are the highest resolution you can get. So no need to point to me that I am wrong again, or to put it as the other guy said, that I am a fucking liar. I love it how people are so mature about those things.
Actually, I am not a liar, simply misinformed. I checked on the web later on and it seems to be like you are right. The cable does support the bandwidth requirement. I was mistaken with the ATSC standard.
The reason for that is that 1080p50 and 1080p60 would exceed the 19Mbit/s bandwidth allotted in a 6Mhz channel as required by the ATSC standard. The highest HDTV formats that don't exceed that limit (and in fact are very close to it) are 720p60, 1080p30 and 1080i60.
To sum things up regarding this topic, the ATSC only allows 1080p broadcasting at a maximum frame rate of 30 frames per second due to bandwidth requirements. 720p video can go up to 60 frames per second with the same bandwidth. 1080 line formats can only deliver a maximum of 60 fields per second (1080i60) or 30 frames per second (1080p30). Both 720 and 1080 line formats, as implemented in ATSC broadcasting, deliver practically the same amount of pixels per second.
So what does this means. It means that you are right, and you can indeed play video games in 1080p@60hz with an HDMI cable. It also means that I got confused between bandwidth allocation for broadcasting and HDMI cables. Mea culpa.
Thanks for being so mature about this and not calling me a fucking liar. People make mistakes you know.
From what I know, only HDMI/DVI are going to get you 1080p and bandwidth being limited you'll only get 30FPS on those cables. I don't know anyone who would find a 30fps game good looking nowaways, especially racing games. Better off with 1080i analog cables since they're cheaper. Have good shielding on them and you won't care that you don't have digital.
MS is going to find that you can't milk a series too much before it simply goes dry
Depends... have you ever heard of a game called Street Fighter 2? Or 3?
Except that HDMI or DVI don't have the bandwidth requirements to deliver 60fps of 1080P. So you're stuck at 30FPS. 1080P gaming is actually a BAD idea. Microsoft did well not to include it in their console. You're better off sticking with 720P@60FPS for now.
I don't get it why people are complaining about ads so much. These web sites cost money to run, you know? These people do this for a living. I find Internet ads to be a lot less intrusive than a couple of years ago. Ok so sometimes you get those crappy flash ads with sound or some that gets bigger when you roll over, but those are the minority, not the norm. I think that websites like IGN and Gamespot or some "real world" news site to actually have a pretty good way of displaying ads. Once in a while you click on a link and there's a full page ad which you can simply skip by pressing a text link over of the ad. And it's like this on most websites I visit. I took an extra click and an extra second to get there. It's like people who strip ads from thei messaging client. Just don't look at them. Anyway, MSN is minimized 99% of the time, so I couldn't care less about the ad that is there 1% of the time.
The only places where you can find ads to be real annoying is on torrent sites and such. Considering people go there to mostly download stuff they don't already own, I have little pity for those who complain. Why should I care that someone is bugging you with those ads? You are already in the process of ripping someone else off. And the saddest part is that those website owners make money off the stuff from other people.
For what it's worth, it sold more consoles than the PS2. :p
Actually, there was a video interview on XBox Live Marketplace IIRC with the people who are making the new Shadorun game (I know I know, it's not Shadowrun but some perverted version of it), and they regularly have matches where it's console players versus PC players (Shadowrun will launch on Vista with Live Anywhere, the Live PC/Xbox/Mobile they are working on) and apparently the PC players were getting owned regularly by the console players. They had to tweak the game so that PC players had a chance.
So it will be interresting to see if that's really the case when the game comes out.
Well, a lot of people cited the size of the original Xbox as one of the factors why it wasn't popular in Japan (lack of Japanese also comes to mind obviously). That's what I was basing ym point on. If the Xbox was too big for Japanese, but PS3 should be too. So if the focus group was right, then it will be interresting to see how Japanese react to the size of the PS3 (or any other asians, based on your findings).
You know what, after seeing the PS3, I think this is one myth that will be debunked. The PS3 is bigger than the original Xbox and weights more!! It's a pity I can't find the original link where I read this, because this is an xbox fan site, so some might argue it's biased, but I've seen this on other websites which are more neutral like Gamespot or 1up.
I bet japanese will buy it nonetheless.
FYI, I'm not sure where it was demoed, Sony's or the developer's, but that game is made by Ubisoft Montreal, not Bioware. But I'm pretty sure I read that the game was showed at Sony's booth and not Ubisoft, but then, you may be right that it WASN'T at Sony's booth. As for the rest...
Honnestly, some people talk so loudly on their cell phone, it's already some form of podcasting.
Honnetly, even if it DID run on GameCube hardware, I couldn't have cared less. Since Wii is supposed to be slightly more powerfull than the GameCube, who cares.
On the other, the rumor that Sony was demoing Assassin's Creed on 360s, that's something to be offended of. Suppose the final hardware of the PS3 doesn't match the power of the 360, or some tricks can be done on it. That means that what people saw at the PS3 wasn't even representative of what they will experience when the game launches. That's dishonnest!
I totally agree with you. I was simply going along with his premise that the costs would be lower. I doubt making games for a machine a "wii" more powerful and with a whole new control scheme is going to cost less than a GameCube.
I don't know about others, but if I've budgeted 50$ a month for games, I'm not going to buy 4 of them at 25$. I'm only going to buy 2. But that's me.
I'm not a sales specialist, but I don't see how this way of thinking works. I know there are impulsive buys that might make me buy 3 a month instead of two, but still. I don't see this really working. Plus, if you sold your game for less and the game tanked, you're not really better off. Not much profits, so you tend to take less risks. Anyway, I am not a business man, so that's just my naive way of looking at it.
Why would an indsutry who has been selling games for 49$ for a while drop their price now that it costs them less to make them. They are in the business of making money, and if the games are still cheaper than the PS3/360, then there's no point dropping the prices for Wii games down from the GameCube prices. It's simply higher profit margins. And we all know how companies like profits. Which is fine by me, since more profits may mean that now that they have more money in the bank they will try new things that they wouldn't dare try before. Even more innovation.
On the contrary, I want the prices to STAY the same if the development costs are lower!
Eh... anyone who was being that stingy on price would also notice that 360 games cost $60 whereas Wii games will be $50 or lower
It depends. I live in Canada and I bought games for my XBox when they were 69CAN$ (49US$), but since the american dollar dropped so much recently, I can get Xbox games for 59CAN$ now, and XBox 360 games have been at 69CAN$ since launch, simply because of the weaker american dollar. So people who didn't mind paying 69CAN$ for PS2/Xbox/GameCube games before, won't mind now either. As for the console, it is overpriced over here (400US$ is not 500CAN$ nowadays, more like 440CAN$), I think most people won't care about the price of games outside of the United States.
Depends. When I told my friend about the lack of HDMI on the PS3 at 500$, he said, "So what? I don't have an HDTV." That's the kind of person who is not going to bother with Blu-Ray either, since it is not going to give him better looking movies anyway, since he lacks an HDTV. I think that is going to be quite a few people, rendering the blu-ray drive pretty much useless.
Well, a friend of mine did alpha testing for the game and it was done on 360s, so either they decided to make it exclusive, or they haven't announced it yet.
Ever heard of OpenGL? If your don't have a card, the software driver will do the same thing, but slower. Same deal over here. I doubt it will be unoptimized anyway, developpers wouldn't put up with that.