Basically, Ulrich Drepper, maintainer of glibc was complaining about how the LSB certification is broken because it's tests are poorly coded and introduce race conditions when ran on fast (read: maybe 700Mhz+ processors) SMP machines.
Interestingly, they'll probably be able to see you fart. On earth, we watch out for yellow snow. In space, we watch out for the little wandering clouds of gas.
Even better, we may even be able to "aim" our farts. But worse, if it's recent, we'd be able to tell who did it:)
Yes, but the question is - will MS contribute all its changes back, preferabbly documented and in a easy to discern format? It'd be nice to see one giant corporations follow the true spirit of open source and actually due something useful with it, because Apple sure isn't. Maybe one well be able to grep "@microsoft.com" out of some changelogs:)???
It looks native enough when I remember the days of applications freezing on me all the time. If I want 10 second pauses inbetween windows refreshing, a funky tab behaviour, wierd copy/paste behaviour, bugs when I have numlock on, instability, and bad memory management, then Azeures and Eclipse and the rest of the Java GUIs make me feel right at home.
Bullshit. Only if you have a url entered under your account does your username link on a story. It's not the same as when you post. If you submit a story and you don't have a url, it won't link to anything. If you post a comment, your username is a link to your slashdot page and your url shows up under your username. If you want some proof, check out this story I submitted:
Thanks. I was actually wondering when it went up to 1m, it has been a while since I've spec'd out drives, but I seem to remember that 250k-500k was the norm. It's interesting that the mtbf has doubled (or even quadrupled) since the last time I remember.
On the newegg link they list the MTBF as 1 million hours. Google tells me that that is about 114 years. How can it have such high mtbf? Is that newegg just not having correct data or is there something special about these drives (or are they designed to be "used" less)?
Oh, I see he wants innovative. Since intel has been so innovative the past few years, it's easy to see why it was such a good choice.
Wait, wasn't it AMD that stepped up with the 1Ghz cpu first? Oh, weren't they the ones who got the first high performance, low cost 64 bit processors to market? Geez, haven't they also been dominating the performance side?
Besides, from what I've been reading, the Turion 64 is not far away from the Pentium M. Close enough to call them comparable at least, and the Turion has 64 bit extensions!
I guess it went over your head. Seeing as I didn't get modded funny, it went over the mods heads too. It was meant to abuse the word to point out the absurdity of its usage in his comment. (and the absurdity of the comment).
PS: I think your catagorizing of people who swear in an argument might be wrong. Just a thought. There is no black and white line to judge people on if they swear. There's no automatically "He lost because he swore" rule, and there's not "He won because he didn't swear" rule. Might be worth a moment of your time to ponder.
I don't know how they got you to believe a C60 can handle several thousand of messages per hour. Best case, they can handle 80,000. Plan for 45-60k. I run 4. You may be running the newest Async beta, but I still doubt that will get you 300,000msgs/hr with two.
Outside of that, no comment on the CGP, agree on the Netapp. Disagree on the high-end intel (These things don't need CPU, they need i/o). Agree on the iSCSI vs. NFS.
Did you see all the patches at the end of August? How about last week? Man, I bet 3 patches got automatically applied to my dozens of woody boxes in the past two months, and maybe 6-8 to my RHEL 2.1/3.0 boxes. Yes, more secure. Much, Much, Much more secure. I don't have to worry about vendors deciding to release patches when they are ready.
These are similiar to what sun has always had - LOM/ALOM (Lights out mangement or Advanced LOM). Bascically it's a separate unit that is inside the server that runs it's own os (In this case it's linux) that has it's own IP. It lets you do things like poweroff, poweron and reset the host box. You can also do something like "attach terminal" and if you have solaris/linux it will give you a tty (as long as you enabled serial redirection in linux) login to the box so you can see your kernel panic or install your patches in single usermode or whatever...
Quite neat, I've always been a big fan of these. They are standard with suns, add on for IBM and not possible for most other vendors.
The GGP implied that it's not really the sysadmins that can purchase the servers anyway, not the sysadmins. The GP replied "Hey, I'm a sysadmin, and I can!".
So fucking what?
So he, and I, can fucking purchase fucking sun fucking equipment is fucking what. What's _YOUR_ fucking point?
Note: You and I have argued qmail's security before, quite a while ago, so I don't want to get into that again:)
At any rate, Guninski seems to be a competent person and his work appears 100% legit in everything I see. While some exploits might require odd configurations, they are still a bug in the software, and that's what Guninski is after and that's exactly what people _should_ be after: bugs in software.
The fact the DJB denies his exploits is absurd, but it is par for the course seeing as he does have a record of that.
Your ad hominem attacks are depressing.
Re:Different strokes for different folks
on
GNOME 2.12 Released
·
· Score: 1
Are you saying that the app should come up immediately? What do you mean by "come up right"? Things like firefox/k3b/thunderbird/synaptic would be almost impossible to get up right away, even on a moderately fast computer. What would you prefer instead of the mouse pointer changing? Do you want it to bounce? Do you want it to act like nothing happened?
You know what - maybe you're right. The entire idea of the kernel is to seperate userland/kernel and to have something that greps proc built into the kernel is a bad idea. Maybe I should rethink my assertion - we spent a long time getting userland stuff out of the kernel - the last thing we wanna do is cram it back in. What could we do though? Are there any standards? Do I trust this guys python script? Do I trust his coding? Shouldn't this maybe be hosted on kernel.org? Maybe this is the start of a new race to see who gets the better "tracker", faster. Awww fuck it, back to more beer.
I use the klive.tac script and it contains stuff like:
PUSH_INTERVAL = 60*10 # start with one push every 10 minutes PUSH_INTERVAL_MAX = 60*60*24 # max out the backoff at 1 push per day PUSH_INTERVAL_BACKOFF = 1.25
SERVER = 'klive.cpushare.com'
PORT = 4921... Interesting, I see the bash script now, but I don't remember seeing it last week. Thanks for pointing that out.
I think this is a fine idea - tracking and all - and I've been running klive since I saw it on kernel trap last week - however, I think that some people are correct when they question how uptime counts as reliability. It doesn't - in the sense of it testing load and the like - but it does because it takes a whole lot of kernel reliability/stability for it to boot in the first place, and it takes a bit for it to just gain uptime.
Personally, I would like to see it as an option in the kernel - but I'd like it to be off by default. I'd the statistics to be available to everyone (*NOT* IP addresses, hostnames, etc) but rather version, compiler, memory and load.
While I'm fine with just running some guys software for now, it's gonna turn into a huge mess . What happens if there's a bug? How's he gonna get it distributed to everyone? What if they want to track something else?
This is common practice: an IBM HMC (Hardware Management Console) is a 1U PC with a custom Linux distribution and the management software preinstalled. You don't get the root password; you just use the software as delivered.
Just an fyi: There's not much that's interesting underneath, I've looked. Though if you're still using the DVDRAM to make backups, you can put your own DVDRW in - they work much better and you don't have to purchase the cartridges:)
Wow. All I can say is wow. Did you even recognize this guy's problems?
<i>Huh? Haven't you ever heard of the "ln" command or environment variables or configuration files are any other of a multitude of ways to pass path information along to a program?</i>
Time out. The guy was talking about how obtuse it is to have to specify the exact location of the database. You mentioned using ln. Any sysadmin worth their salt knows that ln, in almost all cases, is bad. In almost all of the cases where you would use ln, you do it as a kludge to hard fix something in where it should be dynamic. Environment variables are just as bad. They're just more work and headache when a better solution already exists. If you think they are just fine, I encourage you to work with DJB's software(qmail, djbdns, etc.), Java, and Oracle and see how long you stay sane. Configuration files - I'll give you that - but how would that help him in this situation?
<i>I'm not sure what type of terminal program you use but frankly mine handles all that sort of stuff just fine for me. Why should ISQL be tasked with what is clearly a terminal program's tasks?</i>
Whoaaaa! He's talking about ISQL not supporting a backspace. Do you realize how much of a pain in the ass that is? You told him yours worked, but you didn't say what you were using... He has to use a seperate text editor to write his sql, don't you see a problem in that? I think that a working backspace key is not an unreasonable thing. Readline support is an *extremely* nice thing to have, especially in an sql client. It lets you do things like:
$ mysql -uuser -ppassword < stuff.sql $ echo "select * from users;" | mysql -uuser -ppassword
<i> So, now just exactly how many times a day are you typing ^Z? Perhaps you should consider typing lessons.</i>
Umm. Well, see, in UNIX, they have this whole notion of being able to "suspend" processes. ctrl-z Does this on most modern unices. Try it, it's pretty cool. Run a process. Hit ctrl-z. It's now suspended. Type "fg" to get it back into the "foreground" or "bg" to resume it into the "background". Most of us also have a good idea of client/server seperation. If a client disconnects/suspends/terminates, the server should not be affected.
Slashdot Mirror
Check the story from a couple days ago:
/ 1128201&tid=156&tid=163&tid=8&tid=106
m l
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/19
Basically, Ulrich Drepper, maintainer of glibc was complaining about how the LSB certification is broken because it's tests are poorly coded and introduce race conditions when ran on fast (read: maybe 700Mhz+ processors) SMP machines.
Here's a direct link to the article:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/udrepper/8511.ht
May his Noodleness' appendage be a bit to short to touch ya, landlubber.
Interestingly, they'll probably be able to see you fart.
On earth, we watch out for yellow snow. In space, we watch out for the little wandering clouds of gas.
Even better, we may even be able to "aim" our farts. But worse, if it's recent, we'd be able to tell who did it:)
Yes, but the question is - will MS contribute all its changes back, preferabbly documented and in a easy to discern format? It'd be nice to see one giant corporations follow the true spirit of open source and actually due something useful with it, because Apple sure isn't.
Maybe one well be able to grep "@microsoft.com" out of some changelogs:)???
It looks native enough when I remember the days of applications freezing on me all the time. If I want 10 second pauses inbetween windows refreshing, a funky tab behaviour, wierd copy/paste behaviour, bugs when I have numlock on, instability, and bad memory management, then Azeures and Eclipse and the rest of the Java GUIs make me feel right at home.
TANSTAAFL == The Author Needs Some (tough actin) Tinactin And A Fucken Lauger
Bullshit. Only if you have a url entered under your account does your username link on a story. It's not the same as when you post. If you submit a story and you don't have a url, it won't link to anything. If you post a comment, your username is a link to your slashdot page and your url shows up under your username.
/ 1416258rel=url2html-4315http://slashdot.org/articl e.pl?sid=05/02/22/1416258>
If you want some proof, check out this story I submitted:
ahref=http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/22
I don't have a url.
Furthermore, check the past few stories, every username that links, links to that user's url.
Thanks.
I was actually wondering when it went up to 1m, it has been a while since I've spec'd out drives, but I seem to remember that 250k-500k was the norm.
It's interesting that the mtbf has doubled (or even quadrupled) since the last time I remember.
On the newegg link they list the MTBF as 1 million hours. Google tells me that that is about 114 years. How can it have such high mtbf? Is that newegg just not having correct data or is there something special about these drives (or are they designed to be "used" less)?
Oh, I see he wants innovative. Since intel has been so innovative the past few years, it's easy to see why it was such a good choice.
Wait, wasn't it AMD that stepped up with the 1Ghz cpu first?
Oh, weren't they the ones who got the first high performance, low cost 64 bit processors to market?
Geez, haven't they also been dominating the performance side?
Besides, from what I've been reading, the Turion 64 is not far away from the Pentium M. Close enough to call them comparable at least, and the Turion has 64 bit extensions!
I guess it went over your head. Seeing as I didn't get modded funny, it went over the mods heads too. It was meant to abuse the word to point out the absurdity of its usage in his comment. (and the absurdity of the comment).
PS: I think your catagorizing of people who swear in an argument might be wrong. Just a thought. There is no black and white line to judge people on if they swear. There's no automatically "He lost because he swore" rule, and there's not "He won because he didn't swear" rule. Might be worth a moment of your time to ponder.
I don't know how they got you to believe a C60 can handle several thousand of messages per hour. Best case, they can handle 80,000. Plan for 45-60k. I run 4.
You may be running the newest Async beta, but I still doubt that will get you 300,000msgs/hr with two.
Outside of that, no comment on the CGP, agree on the Netapp. Disagree on the high-end intel (These things don't need CPU, they need i/o). Agree on the iSCSI vs. NFS.
I challenge you to contest this:
c hes/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/19/apple_pat
Did you see all the patches at the end of August? How about last week?
Man, I bet 3 patches got automatically applied to my dozens of woody boxes in the past two months, and maybe 6-8 to my RHEL 2.1/3.0 boxes.
Yes, more secure. Much, Much, Much more secure. I don't have to worry about vendors deciding to release patches when they are ready.
These are similiar to what sun has always had - LOM/ALOM (Lights out mangement or Advanced LOM).
Bascically it's a separate unit that is inside the server that runs it's own os (In this case it's linux) that has it's own IP. It lets you do things like poweroff, poweron and reset the host box.
You can also do something like "attach terminal" and if you have solaris/linux it will give you a tty (as long as you enabled serial redirection in linux) login to the box so you can see your kernel panic or install your patches in single usermode or whatever...
Quite neat, I've always been a big fan of these. They are standard with suns, add on for IBM and not possible for most other vendors.
Heh. Yeah. And something like 8 times the performance.
And much more security, stability, compatibility and support.
But you're still not going to get a hardware vendor that acknowledges their engineering mishaps.
What are you talking about?
The GGP implied that it's not really the sysadmins that can purchase the servers anyway, not the sysadmins. The GP replied "Hey, I'm a sysadmin, and I can!".
So fucking what?
So he, and I, can fucking purchase fucking sun fucking equipment is fucking what. What's _YOUR_ fucking point?
Note: You and I have argued qmail's security before, quite a while ago, so I don't want to get into that again:)
At any rate, Guninski seems to be a competent person and his work appears 100% legit in everything I see. While some exploits might require odd configurations, they are still a bug in the software, and that's what Guninski is after and that's exactly what people _should_ be after: bugs in software.
The fact the DJB denies his exploits is absurd, but it is par for the course seeing as he does have a record of that.
Your ad hominem attacks are depressing.
Are you saying that the app should come up immediately? What do you mean by "come up right"?
Things like firefox/k3b/thunderbird/synaptic would be almost impossible to get up right away, even on a moderately fast computer. What would you prefer instead of the mouse pointer changing? Do you want it to bounce? Do you want it to act like nothing happened?
You know what - maybe you're right. The entire idea of the kernel is to seperate userland/kernel and to have something that greps proc built into the kernel is a bad idea.
Maybe I should rethink my assertion - we spent a long time getting userland stuff out of the kernel - the last thing we wanna do is cram it back in.
What could we do though? Are there any standards? Do I trust this guys python script? Do I trust his coding? Shouldn't this maybe be hosted on kernel.org? Maybe this is the start of a new race to see who gets the better "tracker", faster.
Awww fuck it, back to more beer.
I use the klive.tac script and it contains stuff like:
...
PUSH_INTERVAL = 60*10 # start with one push every 10 minutes
PUSH_INTERVAL_MAX = 60*60*24 # max out the backoff at 1 push per day
PUSH_INTERVAL_BACKOFF = 1.25
SERVER = 'klive.cpushare.com'
PORT = 4921
Interesting, I see the bash script now, but I don't remember seeing it last week.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I think this is a fine idea - tracking and all - and I've been running klive since I saw it on kernel trap last week - however, I think that some people are correct when they question how uptime counts as reliability. It doesn't - in the sense of it testing load and the like - but it does because it takes a whole lot of kernel reliability/stability for it to boot in the first place, and it takes a bit for it to just gain uptime.
Personally, I would like to see it as an option in the kernel - but I'd like it to be off by default. I'd the statistics to be available to everyone (*NOT* IP addresses, hostnames, etc) but rather version, compiler, memory and load.
While I'm fine with just running some guys software for now, it's gonna turn into a huge mess . What happens if there's a bug? How's he gonna get it distributed to everyone? What if they want to track something else?
This is common practice: an IBM HMC (Hardware Management Console) is a 1U PC with a custom Linux distribution and the management software preinstalled. You don't get the root password; you just use the software as delivered.
Just an fyi: There's not much that's interesting underneath, I've looked. Though if you're still using the DVDRAM to make backups, you can put your own DVDRW in - they work much better and you don't have to purchase the cartridges:)
And Byte to pay for the prostitutes.
That's about the time I shift it into 4wd low and punch it!
Wow. All I can say is wow. Did you even recognize this guy's problems?
<i>Huh? Haven't you ever heard of the "ln" command or environment variables or configuration files are any other of a multitude of ways to pass path information along to a program?</i>
Time out. The guy was talking about how obtuse it is to have to specify the exact location of the database. You mentioned using ln. Any sysadmin worth their salt knows that ln, in almost all cases, is bad. In almost all of the cases where you would use ln, you do it as a kludge to hard fix something in where it should be dynamic. Environment variables are just as bad. They're just more work and headache when a better solution already exists. If you think they are just fine, I encourage you to work with DJB's software(qmail, djbdns, etc.), Java, and Oracle and see how long you stay sane.
Configuration files - I'll give you that - but how would that help him in this situation?
<i>I'm not sure what type of terminal program you use but frankly mine handles all that sort of stuff just fine for me. Why should ISQL be tasked with what is clearly a terminal program's tasks?</i>
Whoaaaa! He's talking about ISQL not supporting a backspace. Do you realize how much of a pain in the ass that is? You told him yours worked, but you didn't say what you were using... He has to use a seperate text editor to write his sql, don't you see a problem in that? I think that a working backspace key is not an unreasonable thing. Readline support is an *extremely* nice thing to have, especially in an sql client. It lets you do things like:
$ mysql -uuser -ppassword < stuff.sql
$ echo "select * from users;" | mysql -uuser -ppassword
Instead of ugly kludges like:
$ cat sqlplus user/password@database << EOF
select * from users;
EOF
<i>
So, now just exactly how many times a day are you typing ^Z? Perhaps you should consider typing lessons.</i>
Umm. Well, see, in UNIX, they have this whole notion of being able to "suspend" processes. ctrl-z Does this on most modern unices. Try it, it's pretty cool. Run a process. Hit ctrl-z. It's now suspended. Type "fg" to get it back into the "foreground" or "bg" to resume it into the "background". Most of us also have a good idea of client/server seperation. If a client disconnects/suspends/terminates, the server should not be affected.
HAND